Coronavirus Death Thread

[Baz]

"Why does everyone's surname start with an A?"I might squeeze in.

[Shindig]

One of the lasses I know has just had her jab. I have no idea why because I can't think of a thing physically wrong with her. She's 30.

[Magic]

She knows you.

[Shindig]

No, the damage was done before she met me.

[Magic]

Long Shindig.

[Shindig]

That's what the ladies call me. :cool:

[Lewis]

I wonder how much vaccine envy/seething there is out there amongst people who know somebody perceived to be jumping the queue. My friend's sister volunteered at the vaccination centre and got one, and a few people seemed to think somebody was missing out for her.

[Magic]

Do we get our doors marked with red crosses if we choose not to get vaccinated? It seems a pretty unacceptable stance as far as I can see.

I love pretending I haven't left the house since March and that I won't be until I get vaccinated. :harold:

[Lewis]

This all ends with you stringing your divorce out for years because you 'aren't allowed' in meetings.

[Magic]

This all ends with you stringing your divorce out for years because you 'aren't allowed' in meetings.

I've been divorced nearly a year.

[Lewis]

Wahey. Shame we couldn't have a forum beano.

[Queenslander]

Victoria's 5 day lockdown appears to have worked with 0 new local cases today.

Edit: Vaccine rollout in Queensland starts on Monday with 100 shots of Pfizer going to the Gold Coast...

[John Arne]

victoria's 5 day lockdown appears to have worked with 0 new local cases today.

Edit: Vaccine rollout in queensland starts on monday with 100 shots of pfizer going to the gold coast...

100? :d

[Queenslander]

100? :d

Yeah kinda why bother telling us but we start at 10 000 per week starting next month.

It's really strange that both crystal woowoo people and our version of white Nationalist are arguing against the vaccine.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/qlds-first-100-virus-jabs-set-for-monday-c-2181375

[Spikey M]

Say you're prioritising minorities first and the White Nationalists will change their tune.

[Queenslander]

Say you're prioritising minorities first and the White Nationalists will change their tune.

:D

They both think it is 5g poison made by Bill Gates for the most part.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Telegraph saying the gov aren't going to lift lockdown until cases are in the hundreds. Fucking why? We're vaccinating ffs.

I'm so depressed at this atm.

[Spikey M]

The vaccine doesn't matter to these people. The deaths don't even matter anymore. Case numbers matter. It's mental. It makes no sense. But here we are.

[Queenslander]

The vaccine is the end game. Those people must be on quite the gravy train by now.

[Spikey M]

We thought so too but it doesn't appear to be.

The end game seems to be to get to *almost* 0 cases (but not quite 0 because they must want it to spread a bit?) and then presumably keep the borders shut forever?

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's down to 'the potential for mutations that could escape the vaccine'. If that is the logic then I genuinely don't see why you would ever open up again. 'Better to be safe than sorry', as someone in the office said yesterday when asking me to put a small envelope on the floor for her to pick up rather than in a potentially lethal plastic tray.

[Queenslander]

Fuck that for a joke.

I doubt the common man will be allowed to leave Australia this year but my vaccine passport better allow me to avoid future lockdowns.

[Kikó]

Telegraph saying the gov aren't going to lift lockdown until cases are in the hundreds. Fucking why? We're vaccinating ffs.

I'm so depressed at this atm.

Being kind, it's probably the level where we can maintain control and ensure there isn't a mutation before the second jabs. If you think about it, we're half way through the main job and it would be stupid to lose that point of control when they have it.

It's desperately depressing however. I'd recommend you try and stay at your parents for a bit or friends. Being at the in laws for the past three months has been mentally good for me.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah, it's basically at the absolute extreme end of a cautious approach, which maybe can be justified, who knows. I just personally think from the comms coming out that they have long since lost perspective.

[Spikey M]

The virus is never going away and it absolutely will mutate. The flu does it, they tweek the vaccine, we carry on. Driving cases down to zero here only makes sense if we plan to keep the rest of the world out until they are all down to zero too. Which, if that's the plan, is mental.

[Spikey M]

Right on cue, just been sent this:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9267563/Roadmap-lockdown-Blueprint-UKs-future-suggests-pubs-business-May.html

[Magic]

I'm in Newport all the time and never see you.

[Spikey M]

Uwotm8

[Jimmy Floyd]

I also don't understand the all-encompassing focus on pubs, restaurants and hotels - great and important as those things are, if you tided us over with 'you can meet 2 others outdoors' or something right now (which would have fuck all impact on spread) then it would get people through to a fuller re-opening.

[Jimmy Floyd]

On a duller political note I see that Keir Starmer has somehow managed to fall below Boris Johnson on 'Covid 19 handling' net approval, which, whilst a stupid question because he hasn't been handling it, is also a rather splendid effort on his part.

[Spikey M]

Unfortunately the new approach of "keep everyone locked up and miserable for as long as possible" is overwhelmingly popular. Most of us probably couldn't even tell you what Starmers views on it are at the moment. I know I couldn't.

[phonics]

Captain Toms daughter needs to shut the fuck up about how hard her life is.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Time was when everyone thought Boris had personally murdered 100,000 people. I can remember those happy days, 3 or 9 or 100 weeks ago, who knows, time doesn't exist anymore.

[Mellberg]

A round of golf would do me.

I might have one actually.

[Baz]

I also don't understand the all-encompassing focus on pubs, restaurants and hotels - great and important as those things are, if you tided us over with 'you can meet 2 others outdoors' or something right now (which would have fuck all impact on spread) then it would get people through to a fuller re-opening.It feels like most people already do that.

[Spikey M]

I'm considering fucking the rules of entirely to be honest. There's no need for them to be this strict and I can't be arsed with it anymore.

[Shindig]

My fortnight off is going to be shite. Nowhere open to do anything remotely interesting.

[Waffdon]

I'm considering fucking the rules of entirely to be honest. There's no need for them to be this strict and I can't be arsed with it anymore.

Go on, big man.

[Spikey M]

Just can't be arsed with it anymore. Haven't seen a person I don’t live with for about 4 months now.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I see my parents at the weekend (which is allowed as I live alone). Haven't seen anyone else outside work for, I don't know, mid October? And seemingly won't again until April, so that will be six months.

[Spikey M]

I haven't even been into work. My closest relationship outside of these walls is currently the shopkeeper up the road.

[Waffdon]

Yeah, I’ve not been in work for 11 months now. Last seen my mates in August and seen my old man for an hour for lunch over Christmas when restaurants were last open. Not seen anyone else in my family since around August too

Stuck in countryside until next month when me and the missus get to finally move into our new flat in town.

[Magic]

'in town'. :harold:

[Yevrah]

I'm considering fucking the rules of entirely to be honest. There's no need for them to be this strict and I can't be arsed with it anymore.

I’m in the same boat. I’ve played by them for pretty much the entire time so I’ve genuinely done my bit, I’ve had enough now and more importantly the things I want to do will have an negligible impact on spreading this virus further, if any.

The scientists pushing this incredibly cautious unwinding are dangerous, dangerous people as they’re doing so seemingly without a care for any of the other impacts it has. They’ve been listened to long enough and there is absolutely no reason why I shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy the nice weather we’ll soon be having with a couple of friends in my garden in March.

It’s manifest nonsense that we won’t be allowed to and we should all be rallying against it come that time. They can’t fine/lock everyone up.

Enough is enough.

[Waffdon]

'in town'. :harold:

Perth City mafia, bro. I’m just excited for fibre optic and UberEats. That and not living in the middle of nowhere

[Magic]

Can't believe some of you are still actually not seeing people lol.

[Offshore Toon]

Not necessarily talking about anyone in this thread, but it is funny how many people turned from curtain-twitching Facebook judges to then themselves deciding 'enough is enough' at an arbitrary point where it is now absolutely justifiable to break the guidelines.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'll always remember Chris Whitty's predecessor (Sally Davies) saying that every time she wants a glass of red wine, she thinks about her cancer risk. That is how these people think.

[Yevrah]

I'll always remember Chris Whitty's predecessor (Sally Davies) saying that every time she wants a glass of red wine, she thinks about her cancer risk. That is how these people think.

That gets me thinking. While I agree the journalists have come out of this process as comfortably the worst of any group, the medical officers have had an absolute shocker. Assuming they played no part in the vaccine (which was an incredible effort and brilliant science), we have:

No need to close borders
Let thousands of Madrid fans in
Let sporting events and concerts go ahead
No need to lockdown
Herd Immunity - I can almost believe with this one that someone dropped a zero from the projected deaths calculation.
Don't wear face masks

And now we find ourselves in a parallel universe where they seemingly want to do the absolute opposite of all those shitty decisions. Forever.

[Spikey M]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56097088

Absolutely gutted that I just miss the age cut off for this exciting opportunity. :cab:

Just use people who caught it organically you fucking monsters.

[Yevrah]

Why do we need to be doing that. :D

And if we are doing it, why are we not doing it with the actual age group where it would be most useful to understand if/how they catch and spread it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

To achieve control conditions - and because this way it (probably) won't kill them.

I'd be wanting about a quarter of a mill to get involved in that though.

[Don]

I'd love to know how well informed they are on the possibility of having your sense of taste and smell taken away from you, getting weird skin ailments and, wait for it...Pruritis Ani.

[Yevrah]

Is your nose and throat still not working Don? Must be coming up to a year now.

[Magic]

Is your nose and throat still not working Don? Must be coming up to a year now.

Is size measured in time?

[Lewis]

Captain Toms daughter needs to shut the fuck up about how hard her life is.

I was just reading that. A free holiday, and family non-jobs for life at the foundation you've set up. Take my nan, please.

[Spikey M]

I still don't get why an old bloke going for walk has "captured the nations heart" like this.

[Kikó]

I'm in Newport all the time and never see you.

I'm here if you want to feed the ducks in Berry's Den sometime x

[Magic]

I'm here if you want to feed the ducks in Berry's Den sometime x

Did you see the baby swans x

[7om]

To achieve control conditions - and because this way it (probably) won't kill them.

I'd be wanting about a quarter of a mill to get involved in that though.

£4000 per participant, apparently.

[Baz]

Curse my age.

[Spikey M]

Are they paying for the kid tests?

[Don]

Is your nose and throat still not working Don? Must be coming up to a year now.

Yep, probably 2 weeks off now. Can't tell if my emotionless state of existential nihilism is completely independent or greatly fuelled by it :happycry:

[Lewis]

1362016150956216324

:lol:

[Spikey M]

:D

[7om]

Fucking hell :lol:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Does he burst into a bit of MC Hammer after that as well?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Some pretty clear signs that cases are at best levelled out now in Scotland, or possibly even rising again.

Not sure how that's happened. Hope England doesn't go the same way.

[Magic]

Some pretty clear signs that cases are at best levelled out now in Scotland, or possibly even rising again.

Not sure how that's happened. Hope England doesn't go the same way.

Because nobody gives a fuck.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Unless they've suddenly started not giving a fuck all at once, I don't think that would be an explanation. My guess is Nicola Salmond has ordered a testing surge or something.

[Boydy]

Bad news for Yev:

https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/PRI_183133045.jpg

[Jimmy Floyd]

Today's cases indicate a dogshit levelling off, even as hospitalisations/death continue to fall apace.

Weirdly though that actually asks another question of our dear leaders, which is are you actually going to keep us in lockdown until 'hundreds' of cases, even if eternal lockdown turns out not to = eternal case drops.

[Shindig]

We appear to have completely tailed off in terms of testing, too. Honestly, this swings on what it always will: hospital numbers. Ideally they want a tiny corner in a hospital for covid patients so they can crack on with the waiting lists but that's miles off.

[Lewis]

Bad news for Yev:

https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/PRI_183133045.jpg

She's even barricading the door.

[niko_cee]

:D

I had no idea what that pic was about and wondered what exactly Yev's interest in CPI was.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Oh god I had missed that.

[Shindig]

Local arseholes publicise their very public breakdown. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-56099072)

Take the kids off them.

[7om]

When I see stuff like that I just assume they did it for Twitter likes.

[bruhnaldo]

“A short wait in a pretend departure lounge”

Ppl are insane

[randomlegend]

1362016150956216324

:lol:

This is me every time I have to put on gloves.

[Spikey M]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56098313

Things must be pretty good if the BBC are actually willing to admit it.

[Magic]

I noticed an article last night about scientists and specialists (lol) saying the lockdown can ease quicker thanks to the good data.

Watch the narrative change almost overnight.

Change complete.

[Magic]

Eagerly anticipating all the talking heads and Britian's Volunteer Lockdown Army telling us how lockdown works and always will work.

[mo]

Local arseholes publicise their very public breakdown. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-56099072)

Take the kids off them.

Most use that treadmill has ever had.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This thread from the CEO of NHS providers intimates he doesn't want any restrictions relaxed for at least another three months. Great

1362066427289681920

[Magic]

West Ham fan. Husband. Dad. Wine. Good Food. Theatre. Books. Walking. Travel. The Lake District. Not necessarily in that order.

Pure nonce.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I genuinely got quite angry reading through it. I think a lot of perspective has been lost by a lot of people involved in this - lockdown means a lot more than the fucking pubs being closed.

[Kikó]

Aye. It also means the CLUBS.

[Magic]

Just recieved this e-mail from the school, which has this beaut in it:

The First Minister also reminded us that the virus has been found to spread between adults congregating around schools, e.g. chatting at the school gate, playground or at the park after school.

:harold:

[Jimmy Floyd]

A lot of the discourse around Her up there is a little bit Maoist, and I say that quite precisely, not as hyperbole.

[Spikey M]

Aye. It also means the CLUBS.

And the Saunas. Man hasn't had a peak of up-towel ballbag for months.

[Don]

It's Team Sauna vs Team Air Fryer and it's LIVE.

[Alex]

I genuinely got quite angry reading through it. I think a lot of perspective has been lost by a lot of people involved in this - lockdown means a lot more than the fucking pubs being closed.

I think I've mentioned this before, but in my experience anybody who does "A THREAD" like that on Twitter is a self-important cunt who loves the sound of their own voice and presenting their own opinion as unassailable fact.

I suppose you could apply that logic to 95% of people who post anything on Twitter though, to be fair. :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'll tell you one more thing that winds me up good and proper.

LOOK HIM IN THE EYES

AND TELL HIM YOU CAN'T WORK FROM HOME

How many people in the UK have the option of working from home and are choosing not to take it? Twelve?

[Spikey M]

I genuinely got quite angry reading through it. I think a lot of perspective has been lost by a lot of people involved in this - lockdown means a lot more than the fucking pubs being closed.

They always go for the easiest complaint to argue about. Just like the Vaccine Passport mob always go for the anti-vaxxers but are mysteriously silent on people that aren't allowed the vaccine.

Presumably because they've worked out that the old "we can't just isolate the vulnerable because the virus will somehow still get them!" Argument is no longer convenient.

[7om]

They always go for the easiest complaint to argue about. Just like the Vaccine Passport mob always go for the anti-vaxxers but are mysteriously silent on people that aren't allowed the vaccine.

Presumably because they've worked out that the old "we can't just isolate the vulnerable because the virus will somehow still get them!" Argument is no longer convenient.

I don't quite understand the push back on the vaccine passport. Everyone who has the vaccine gets it and those who can't have it get an official exemption instead. That just leaves behind the mongs who don't want it. This will obviously be an international problem as some countries may require evidence of vaccination to travel thereand on that subject I would want people arriving here through the airports to show proof of vaccination. A shitty letter from your doctor could easily be forged.

[Spikey M]

It also leaves behind the people that aren't even due their first jab until the Autumn and are not too keen on giving up another year of their life.

[7om]

It also leaves behind the people that aren't even due their first jab until the Autumn and are not too keen on giving up another year of their life.

Isn't that just tough shit? Why would you deliberately hold back people who can travel just because another group can't?

[Don]

Yeah, let's force healthy young people to have a needle inserted into them to possibly keep a few wheelchair companies in business but let's not look to address the health crisis that's led to this shit because that would be infringing on people's rights and freedoms.

[7om]

Yeah, let's force healthy young people to have a needle inserted into them to possibly keep a few wheelchair companies in business but let's not look to address the health crisis that's led to this shit because that would be infringing on people's rights and freedoms.

How should we address the health crisis?

[Spikey M]

Isn't that just tough shit? Why would you deliberately hold back people who can travel just because another group can't?

The vaccine passport isn't just being discussed for international travel. It's being offered as an example for everything.

The vaccinated go back to normal, the non-vaccinated stay at home. That leaves us in a bizarre world where the formerly vulnerable are now off out down the pub and the non-vulnerabal are still staying at home to... erm... protect the vulnerable that are currently sat in the pub?

That's not tough shit, that's mental shit. But even if I were to concede that it is tough shit, why is tough shit now an option? It hasn't been until now. "We're all in this together".

[Magic]

Isn't that just tough shit? Why would you deliberately hold back people who can travel just because another group can't?

This is the same logic as why would you deliberately hold back a young, healthy population who can do what they like because they aren't at risk unlike like a bunch of fat old spastics who are?

[7om]

The vaccine passport isn't just being discussed for international travel. It's being offered as an example for everything.

The vaccinated go back no normal, the non-vaccinated stay at home. That leaves us in a bizarre world where the formerly vulnerable are now off out down the pub and the non-vulnerabal are still staying at home to... erm... protect the vulnerable that are currently sat in the pub?

That's not tough shit, that's mental shit. But even if I were to concede that it is tough shit, why is tough shit now an option? It hasn't been until now. "We're all in this together".

The kicker against that argument is that it's not just about infection, it's also transmission. The vaccinated boomers down the pub are at a decreased risk of infection and trasnmitting it onto someone else if they did have it. Us twats sitting at home may not get too ill if we also went down the pub but then we are capable of transmitting. Then you've got the follow up argument of increasing cases and subsequent increased healthcare burden and mutations.

I think tough shit is always in our society. It's what a lot of people think when you walk past a homeless person sleeping on the street, for example. Things can't always be fair.

[7om]

This is the same logic as why would you deliberately hold back a young, healthy population who can do what they like because they aren't at risk unlike like a bunch of fat old spastics who are?

Because it's not just about infection risk. It's asymtomatic cases --> transmission --> mutations. If the mutations evade the vaccines we are gonna be in this cycle forever.

[Spikey M]

The kicker against that argument is that it's not just about infection, it's also transmission. The vaccinated boomers down the pub are at a decreased risk of infection and trasnmitting it onto someone else if they did have it. Us twats sitting at home may not get too ill if we also went down the pub but then we are capable of transmitting. Then you've got the follow up argument of increasing cases and subsequent increased healthcare burden and mutations.

I think tough shit is always in our society. It's what a lot of people think when you walk past a homeless person sleeping on the street, for example. Things can't always be fair.

If you would actually tolerate that, you're fucked in the head. Just FYI.

"You guys go out and have fun, we'll keep you safe".

[John Arne]

I don't see a problem with having to prove you've been vaccinated to travel. I'm likely not going to get a jab until end of this year, so won't have seen my family for basically 3 years - but the greater good - that's life.

[7om]

If you would actually tolerate that, you're fucked in the head. Just FYI.

"You guys go out and have fun, we'll keep you safe".

:D

I would tolerate that. It just seems selfish to me to force people to isolate when they are protected. The whole point of the vaccine is to release people. Would you be happier if they were also forced to stay at home just because you have to?

[Spikey M]

:D

I would tolerate that. It just seems selfish to me to force people to isolate when they are protected. The whole point of the vaccine is to release people. Would you be happier if they were also forced to stay at home just because you have to?

No, I would release the lockdown in a gradual manner that doesn't discriminate.

But the conversation is pointless from here, we are too far apart to ever agree.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Isn't that just tough shit? Why would you deliberately hold back people who can travel just because another group can't?

Makes medical and possibly economic sense, but the politics/humanity of asking the 20-40 year olds, who have held their lives up for the past 12-18 months to protect the vulnerable, now to watch the vulnerable swan off on their hols while they are still banned from doing so, is appalling.

[Manc]

How old is 7om?

[Spikey M]

67 with a BMI of 45 and 1 lung.

[7om]

Makes medical and possibly economic sense, but the politics/humanity of asking the 20-40 year olds, who have held their lives up for the past 12-18 months to protect the vulnerable, now to watch the vulnerable swan off on their hols while they are still banned from doing so, is appalling.

I'm not zero covid by any stretch, but you have to make rational decisions regarding the easing of lockdown. The unvaccinated are a massive vector for transmission (and probably mutations) and that won't change regardless if Sheila and Dave go to Tenerife for a week.

[Spikey M]

I'm not zero covid by any stretch, but you have to make rational decisions regarding the easing of lockdown. The unvaccinated are a massive vector for transmission (and probably mutations) and that won't change regardless if Sheila and Dave go to Tenerife for a week.

I mean, if we're following the Data it's NHS workers, patients, carers, and care residents that are spreading this. Not "the unvaccinated".

[7om]

I mean, if we're following the Data it's NHS workers, patients, carers, and care residents that are spreading this. Not "the unvaccinated".

Haven't all of those groups been vaccinated by now? Their contribution to transmission must be low or at least quickly shrinking.

[Spikey M]

But it hasn't been for a year and yet talk of building an armed border around all hospitals has been somewhat absent.

[7om]

But it hasn't been for a year and yet talk of building an armed border around all hospitals has been somewhat absent.

That's because hospitals have to stay open. We don't have to go down the pub.

[Spikey M]

That's because hospitals have to stay open. We don't have to go down the pub.

We're back to using the pub as the example I see. That should be Godwins Law with this shit.

[7om]

We're back to using the pub as the example I see. That should be Godwins Law with this shit.

I'm using that as a catch-all term for releasing society. Let me put it this way: the unvaccinated don't need to be released from lockdown, the hospitals must stay open.

[Magic]

The body of 19 people was set up by Holyrood's Covid-19 Committee to provide the public's view on the government's approach to coronavirus restrictions and strategy.

It has called for a plan that would try to gradually reduce the number of cases to zero.

[Lewis]

The plan will be for the SNP to say it's zero and then it is.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Let me put it this way: the unvaccinated don't need to be released from lockdown

This sort of thought process is why scientists whinge about people not listening to them. Life is not a petri dish.

[Spikey M]

I literally can't continue with that discussion. Yev and Magic are right and we may as well throw ourselves from something tall.

[Don]

I'm using that as a catch-all term for releasing society. Let me put it this way: the unvaccinated don't need to be released from lockdown, the hospitals must stay open.

And therein lies the crux of the matter.

Edit: https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-24-2014/C2w4AN.gif

[7om]

And therein lies the crux of the matter.

Edit: https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-24-2014/C2w4AN.gif

There's a difference between what is needed and what people want. I don't need to go down the Blues, but I'd like to.

[7om]

Life is not a petri dish.

But it is temporarily, though. That's the point.

[Spikey M]

I'm really starting to see the value of the Algorithmic Echo Chambers people retreat into.

[Don]

There's a difference between what is needed and what people want. I don't need to go down the Blues, but I'd like to.

If you think there is no pressing need to get the fuck out of this shit, I'd spend some time compiling some studies (most likely to be carried out on prisoners) to back it up but I haven't the willpower currently. What I can guarantee is Team Sauna will be there to 'we told you so' for the next decade at least when the wrongs and the dire consequences of this shambles are brought to light.

[Boydy]

Isn't that just tough shit? Why would you deliberately hold back people who can travel just because another group can't?
Because fuck boomers, that's why.

[Spikey M]

Because fuck boomers, that's why.

If you've just got to that post I beg you to turn back. Do not enter any further.

[7om]

I'm really starting to see the value of the Algorithmic Echo Chambers people retreat into.

I don't know what that is referring to but I don't retreat to any echo chambers. That's why I am currently in here discussing my viewpoint against about 5 others. Just don't engage with the conversation if you don't like it.

[7om]

If you think there is no pressing need to get the fuck out of this shit, I'd spend some time compiling some studies (most likely to be carried out on prisoners) to back it up but I haven't the willpower currently. What I can guarantee is Team Sauna will be there to 'we told you so' for the next decade at least when the wrongs and the dire consequences of this shambles are brought to light.

I'm not saying there won't be consequences Taz. I know full well there are. But I believe the consequences of letting this pandemic continue, or even exacerbate it through our own policy would be even worse.

I can't predict the future and I'm not saying I am 100% right.

[Spikey M]

Meaning I wish I was in an echo chamber because you have depressed the living shit out of me and I'm genuinely concerned that you're representative of the majority of people right now.

[Kikó]

I think you just need to compartmentalise it a bit more. This is a short term pain - it will pass. We will go back to a normal way of living.

[Spikey M]

If they release the vaccinated and keep us penned in I would not handle that in a healthy way. I know that much. Resentment unlike anything I have ever felt.

[Jimmy Floyd]

But it is temporarily, though. That's the point.

Only if you think in a certain way, in which extreme caution re a virus against which we will soon all have been vaccinated trumps all else.

The goalposts are shifting from 'let's do what we can to protect the vulnerable right now' to 'let's restrict your freedom for an unknown period of time until conditions are to our liking'. One is morally acceptable, one is not.

[7om]

Only if you think in a certain way, in which extreme caution re a virus against which we will soon all have been vaccinated trumps all else.

The goalposts are shifting from 'let's do what we can to protect the vulnerable right now' to 'let's restrict your freedom for an unknown period of time until conditions are to our liking'. One is morally acceptable, one is not.

We're not all going to be vaccinated soon. You're looking at late summer to early autumn for all adults. You release society now, regardless of vaccination status, you'll be back in full lockdown within 2 months.

That's why I am saying release the vaccinated now so at least non-essential business can slowly reopen. And then release more people as they get the jabs. This is so much more than short term "freedoms", it's about our long-term ability to lead normal lives again.

[Don]

We're not all going to be vaccinated soon. You're looking at late summer to early autumn for all adults. You release society now, regardless of vaccination status, you'll be back in full lockdown within 2 months.

That's why I am saying release the vaccinated now so at least non-essential business can slowly reopen. And then release more people as they get the jabs. This is so much more than short term "freedoms", it's about our long-term ability to lead normal lives again.

Isn't the only risk threatening another lockdown the possibility of mutation leading to vaccine failure? If we were to open up now, the vaccine alone should prevent any risk of health service being overcome, no?

[Jimmy Floyd]

We're not all going to be vaccinated soon. You're looking at late summer to early autumn for all adults. You release society now, regardless of vaccination status, you'll be back in full lockdown within 2 months.

That's why I am saying release the vaccinated now so at least non-essential business can slowly reopen. And then release more people as they get the jabs. This is so much more than short term "freedoms", it's about our long-term ability to lead normal lives again.

No one's advocating complete release now. However it should be their responsibility to open whatever can be opened as soon as it can possibly be opened, rather than 'Hmm, let's see for a few months'.

And if vaccines aren't going to enable us to lead normal lives again then nothing will, in which case we shouldn't be in lockdown in the first place.

If you think that 'But there might be a dangerous variant in future!' is grounds for restrictions on freedom then you are a dangerous lunatic. It's about preventing mass sickness overwhelming the NHS's ability to save the people they can save. Once that is not in question, then there shouldn't be significant restrictions.

Oh and I can live with mask wearing in shops, working from home etc if that's what it takes. But stopping people from seeing friends and family? Barbarism.

[niko_cee]

Let me put it this way: the unvaccinated don't need to be released from lockdown

And here endeth the philosophical discussion.

Shame we didn't role 'tough shit' out when it came to protecting a vanishingly small [and in general terms pointless] section of society.

[7om]

And here endeth the philosophical discussion.

Shame we didn't role 'tough shit' out when it came to protecting a vanishingly small [and in general terms pointless] section of society.

Because 'tough shit' for us is psychological distress, for the vulnerable it is death.

[niko_cee]

Tough shit is tough shit mate.

The vaccinated will have to wait for everyone else. If they don't like that, well, you can guess what the response would be.

[7om]

Tough shit is tough shit mate.

The vaccinated will have to wait for everyone else. If they don't like that, well, you can guess what the response would be.

They probably will, yeah. I just think that mindset is selfish.

[Boydy]

They won't. They're the Tories' core vote. They'll deffo let them out/go on holiday. The young don't vote for them anyway so they'll get told to stay inside.

[niko_cee]

It's called quid pro quo, not selfishness.

If the vulnerable want to renege on their Faustian pact, well, that never seems a great idea.

[7om]

It's called quid pro quo, not selfishness.

If the vulnerable want to renege on their Faustian pact, well, that never seems a great idea.

Call it whatever you want, I feel it is unnecessary to hold vaccinated people back when there is no medical reason to.

[randomlegend]

Wanting the vaccinated to stay home just because you had/have to is pettiest, most childish shit imaginable. Absolute toddlers.

[Spikey M]

That's not the argument being put forward.

Release the lockdown slowly and carefully, the end.

[niko_cee]

It's how you maintain the basic structure of society, although, as has been pointed out by others, this is something outwith the wit of the scientific method.

[Boydy]

Wanting the vaccinated to stay home just because you had/have to is pettiest, most childish shit imaginable. Absolute toddlers.
Oh aye, just cause you've got yours.

[Don]

I feel the crux of the matter is we have two competing schools of thought. One suggest open it all up now that we have a vaccine and no calculable risk whilst the other are a bunch of soft shites.

[Spikey M]

Stop saying crux.

[niko_cee]

Not really.

I don't doubt the scientific merit of keeping everyone locked indoors for as long as possible, or even of allowing certain groups out and about in preference to others.

I do question that policy from the perspective of maintaining an open, free and fair society.

[Spikey M]

Closed, imprisoned and tough shit society ftw.

[Don]

Soft shite alert.

[Kikó]

That's the crux of it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The next such debate we are going to have is that the south will get to a very low level and the north will still be higher.

Currently (although the variant came from the south) there are 17 areas in the north/midlands above 200/100k/week, and only Luton and Slough in the south.

Come in Andy Burnham, your time is up.

[niko_cee]

It's completely moot as regards letting the old and the sick out early, as where are they going to go? Where is going to be open for them if everyone else is locked indoors?

[Kikó]

About time they got jobs and started to do something other than moan.

[Spikey M]

It's completely moot as regards letting the old and the sick out early, as where are they going to go? Where is going to be open for them if everyone else is locked indoors?

Oh we'll be allowed out to serve them, don't worry.

[niko_cee]

I see in Israel, land of the free indeed, they are going down the vaccine apartheid route.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You'll have 20 year olds employed to work in pubs but not allowed to visit them as a customer on their day off.

:cool:

[niko_cee]

Generation Epsilon.

[Spikey M]

The riots will take up their spare time anyway.

[randomlegend]

Oh aye, just cause you've got yours.

As if I go anywhere anyway

[Shindig]

I think you just need to compartmentalise it a bit more. This is a short term pain - it will pass. We will go back to a normal way of living.

And we're all living to 90 so this is nowt.

[Waffdon]

There’s a lot of softies in this thread. :D

[Manc]

It's the principle of the matter.

[7om]

Good to see manc is on my side.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I'm fine with letting the vaccinated roam free :)

[Lewis]

The other vaccinated.

[Spikey M]

We should really be taking RL's and Mahow's behaviour as a tacit admission that Mental Health doesn't matter.

That E-victory might actually be worth a few more months indoors.

[randomlegend]

My comment wasn't taking any particular side on what should or shouldn't happen regarding "opening up". I don't know what the right thing to do is. I spend a lot of my time at work now dealing with the mental health fallout in kids of lockdown, and it's fucking miserable.

I was merely pointing out what spiteful nonsense it is to not want old vaccinated people to be allowed to go out because you weren't/aren't allowed (which absolutely was a sentiment people were expressing).

[Jimmy Floyd]

You're having a laugh if you think younger people aren't going to feel resentment in that scenario.

Maybe they would feel more charitably towards the old, and more like they were playing their part in some kind of social contract, if the old weren't completely screwing them in every other respect as well as this one.

[randomlegend]

Seeing the current situation as the old "screwing" the young with regards to covid is just sad. Why do people want to be angry with someone all the time?

[Jimmy Floyd]

If the government enacts a policy which arbitrarily and by design benefits one section of society over another, then people are being screwed. That's just how it is, unfortunately, just as currently there are various groups (often also the young) who get screwed by other policies, like council tax, or lack of mental health provision, or whatever it might be.

The virus ain't sentient. Restrictions are chosen by people.

[randomlegend]

Yeah, they are chosen by the government, not "the elderly". If you're being screwed it's by your precious Tories.

"Waaaaah Dom never would've let this happen waaaaaaaah".

[7om]

Oof.

[Lewis]

So in the absence of any specific pandemic policies, where however many people died, nobody would be being 'screwed'?

[niko_cee]

Utilitarianism would have let the old wither, and in the long run that would probably have been the better solution, but it's an impossible argument to make in the midst of people dying.

Health discrimination does sound a right laugh though. Should we really have been letting people with aids go to nightclubs all these years?

[Spikey M]

Should we really have been letting people with aids go to nightclubs all these years?

Only people with AIDS should be going to clubs. The rest of us should be staying at home to keep them safe.

[randomlegend]

So in the absence of any specific pandemic policies, where however many people died, nobody would be being 'screwed'?

Is this directed at me?

[bruhnaldo]

Only people with AIDS should be going to clubs. The rest of us should be staying at home to keep them safe.

Isn’t it a crime to not disclose HIV+?

So wouldn’t that be kinda like a vaccination disclosure in some weird warped way on the inverse

I’m too tired to make the connecting I’m kinda just throwing the ingredients in the kitchen and hoping one of you bake the pie

[Spikey M]

Yes. If you are in the same room as someone with HIV they must disclose it.

[bruhnaldo]

See you’re being obtuse for internet points I’m saying work with me here I have these pieces and I’m trying to figure them out

[bruhnaldo]

Like it would be a crime to not disclose HIV when engaging in something that may transmit the virus

So if we are using HIV/AIDS as some sort of comparison wouldnt it be reasonable to suggest it be a law to have to disclose your vaccination status when entering a private business or arrangement in which you may transmit said virus

I’m still working on this but talking aloud helps

[bruhnaldo]

I don’t think I should have to get a vaccine if I don’t want too per se so don’t take it the wrong way

[Spikey M]

I don't think the laws of entering people and entering buildings are all too comparable.

[bruhnaldo]

What more a privately owned property than ones body tbqh !

[Yevrah]

My take on all of this.

I don't really care that Deirdre might be indulging in Anilingus before Don does, good luck to her. No, the issue I have is that not only is Don potentially expected to wait until he's been vaccinated before he can taste sweet arse, but that he's still not allowed (and won't be for weeks) to do anything that remotely resembles fun, with anyone outside of his household, in any setting whatsoever. And that, at this stage, just isn't on.

You can't ask the fat, old and generally ill to shield from day 1 while we all crack on without overburdening the NHS as they simply won't do it in enough numbers to stop the NHS being screwed. But, we're well past day one for this latest cycle and Don meeting me in my garden now, let alone in fucking March (or April????May????) to tell me all about that sweet arse will pose no threat to the NHS being overburdened whatsoever. The relatively healthy that follow the rules have done more than their bit now and it's simply sadistic to expect them to carry on any longer if it doesn't represent a serious public health risk if they don't.


It doesn't. We have a fucking vaccine. Tens of millions have/will have imminently been given a shot of it.

[Don]

Ngl, I've lost sight of the crux here.

[bruhnaldo]

I think we should just admit to ourselves this really has nothing to do with our safety does it

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-56111209

A man in his 30s with no underlying health conditions was offered a Covid vaccine after an NHS error mistakenly listed him as just 6.2cm in height.

Liam Thorp was told he qualified for the jab because his measurements gave him a body mass index of 28,000.

[Spikey M]

What more a privately owned property than ones body tbqh !

Alright, let's speed this along. If you know you have HIV It is illegal to have unprotected sex without informing the other person.

If you know you have Covid it is illegal to leave your home/hospital bed.

If you don't know you have HIV it is obviously not illegal to have unprotected sex without disclosing it.

If you don't know you have Covid......

[Shindig]

Ngl, I've lost sight of the crux here.

I think he's inviting you round.

[Don]

There's a Tory and a businessman on QT reading out our posts but getting drowned out by soft female shites. Let's keep an eye out on the correlation between testosterone levels and lockdown stance. It rings true in this thread for sure.

[Boydy]

The pinnacle of manliness is stealing kids' bikes.

[Don]

A man provides. A woman protects and should she neglect her responsibilities and utterly fails at every facet of life, she becomes Nadia Whittome.

[Don]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/18/205m-years-of-life-may-have-been-lost-to-covid-19-worldwide-study-says

Top trolling.

[Queenslander]

Jeez that is quality doom porn.

[Yevrah]

I'm using that as a catch-all term for releasing society. Let me put it this way: the unvaccinated don't need to be released from lockdown, the hospitals must stay open.

I know you got roundly set upon for this post and I'm more commenting on what I suspect is a wildly held belief by far more people than I realise than just cheaply weighing in on you, but this is dangerous, dangerous shit.

The unvaccinated didn't need to be released from lockdown when we were weeks or maybe even months into this, but we're coming up to a year now, talking about genuinely extending this lockdown to 6 months (6.fucking.months) and they absolutely do. Given where we are with the vaccine and the fact that not a single expert in any field can properly explain where the risk lies in slowly unwinding stuff soon against the backdrop of that amazing achievement (beyond TEH VARIANTZ - see Jim's response to that one, he's nailed it, but to add, we're guarding against that in such a piss poor way it borders on the tragic) I would actually say the unvaccinated now have a greater need to be free than the vaccinated do for them not to be.

I live in a relatively nice house, haven't been furloughed, don't currently have money worries and I can honestly say the last six weeks of this have been the worst experience of my life. I feel constantly like a claustrophobe, I'm losing all motivation for pretty much anything and my ability to think and communicate is diminishing by the day and it's reached the stage where it's now so pronounced I can fucking see it. Now you could say I've led a sheltered life and it's not really been that bad you drama queen, people have much worse to deal with, and you'd be right, they do. Take the millions of people that live in squalor, that have lost their jobs, can't get another one and owe eight months rent. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they don't need to be released is terrifying. Absolutely terrifying.

[Yevrah]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/18/205m-years-of-life-may-have-been-lost-to-covid-19-worldwide-study-says

Top trolling.

Yep, yet another example in this pandemic of innumeracy being taken advantage of as well. Spread across 7.8bn people it equates to less than a day per person. I've lost far more time than that in the last 12 months trying to find a video on Pornhub I haven't seen alone.

[Yevrah]

And on another point that was raised, the care shambles continues.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56112622

If people are being told they can't do things with the force of the law behind that then these fuckers should be given the ultimatum of have the vaccine or get another job, with immediate effect.

[Yevrah]

In better news, the Daily Mail are running with the government suggesting that 40-49 year olds will be offered their first jab as soon as March.

Who's laughing at my age/zimmerframe now. :cool:

On the downside, it'll be some sort of sick joke if I still can't fucking do anything having been vaccinated.

[Don]

Strong series of posts :rasta:

The care home stuff is just the ethnics at it again, isn't it?

[Spikey M]

I don’t know why it didn't occur to me earlier - presumably because my mind had been fucked in a way that it hasn't been in years - but the obvious come back to a nonsense statement like "the unvaccinated don't need to be released from lockdown" is "Neither do the vaccinated".

If freedom is to be treated so flippantly, then nobody needs freedom.

You need bread. You need water. You need oxygen. Welcome Chairman 7om.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Frozen dinners latest:


When do you think people from different households should be allowed to meet again?

Immediately 7%
Sometime in March 18%
Sometime in April 22%
Sometime in May 18%
Sometime in June or later 26%
Don’t know 10%

Based on my lived experience I find this genuinely incredible. Is it because I live alone? Is it because I have a life? I don't even have THAT much of a life normally. Is it because they're loving furlough?

I just don't understand it.

[Baz]

Maybe they only poll absolute losers.

Those picking ‘I don’t know’ should be banned from ever receiving the vaccine.

[7om]

I know you got roundly set upon for this post and I'm more commenting on what I suspect is a wildly held belief by far more people than I realise than just cheaply weighing in on you, but this is dangerous, dangerous shit.

The unvaccinated didn't need to be released from lockdown when we were weeks or maybe even months into this, but we're coming up to a year now, talking about genuinely extending this lockdown to 6 months (6.fucking.months) and they absolutely do. Given where we are with the vaccine and the fact that not a single expert in any field can properly explain where the risk lies in slowly unwinding stuff soon against the backdrop of that amazing achievement (beyond TEH VARIANTZ - see Jim's response to that one, he's nailed it, but to add, we're guarding against that in such a piss poor way it borders on the tragic) I would actually say the unvaccinated now have a greater need to be free than the vaccinated do for them not to be.

I live in a relatively nice house, haven't been furloughed, don't currently have money worries and I can honestly say the last six weeks of this have been the worst experience of my life. I feel constantly like a claustrophobe, I'm losing all motivation for pretty much anything and my ability to think and communicate is diminishing by the day and it's reached the stage where it's now so pronounced I can fucking see it. Now you could say I've led a sheltered life and it's not really been that bad you drama queen, people have much worse to deal with, and you'd be right, they do. Take the millions of people that live in squalor, that have lost their jobs, can't get another one and owe eight months rent. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they don't need to be released is terrifying. Absolutely terrifying.

When I wrote that post I meant it literally, as it was in response to Spikey questioning why we hadn’t shut down hospitals yet.

When I say ‘need’, I mean it in the same sense that you need to drink water to stay alive. If you don’t drink you’ll die. What I meant was that people will not (necessarily) die if we force them to stay home via lockdown, but people will definitely die if we shut hospitals, like Spikey intimated.

Regarding the impact of the vaccine, we are nowhere near the point where it will protect enough people. And no, I’m not saying we wait 6 months. I’ve never said that. What I’m saying is we must continue lockdown until we reach two milestones: 1) we get case numbers down to levels where test and trace can adequately function. I don’t know exactly what that number is but I would imagine it would have to be below 1,000. And 2) all people over 60 and those with underlying health conditions are vaccinated.

You start opening up society before then and cases will skyrocket, just like they have after every other time we’ve released people.

I know you don’t like the variant talk, but it is a worry. You let tens of thousands walk around with this you are just begging for it to happen and then we are in the shit.

[Spikey M]

72% of BAME "unlikely" to get the vaccine.

Fuck me.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You start opening up society before then and cases will skyrocket, just like they have after every other time we’ve released people.

Not true


I know you don’t like the variant talk, but it is a worry. You let tens of thousands walk around with this you are just begging for it to happen and then we are in the shit.

Lots of things are a worry. Earthquakes are a worry, cancer is a worry, climate change is a worry. We don't use authoritarian measures to shut the world down for them outwith the immediate killing zone, and we shouldn't for this either. If a vaccine resistant killer variant develops (vanishingly unlikely, from what I've read) we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

[Magic]

72% of BAME "unlikely" to get the vaccine.

Fuck me.

I stand firmly with my brothers this time.

[7om]

Not true



Lots of things are a worry. Earthquakes are a worry, cancer is a worry, climate change is a worry. We don't use authoritarian measures to shut the world down for them outwith the immediate killing zone, and we shouldn't for this either. If a vaccine resistant killer variant develops (vanishingly unlikely, from what I've read) we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

What makes the release from this lockdown any different to the one last summer? Don’t say ‘because old people have been vaccinated’. That wouldn’t be a reasonable argument.

Those comparisons to COVID are ridiculous, but I think you probably know that. If one bloke gets cancer that is a whole different ball game to one person getting COVID and coughing in a room of people.

I also wish people would stop extrapolating my arguments and then criticising them. I haven’t said the worry is of a killer variant. All we need is enough of a mutation to bring the vaccine efficacy down and all our hard work has gone to shit. Do you believe that possibility is ‘vanishingly unlikely’? I don’t. I think keeping case numbers consistently in the thousands makes it increasingly likely.

[Shindig]

I live in a relatively nice house, haven't been furloughed, don't currently have money worries and I can honestly say the last six weeks of this have been the worst experience of my life. I feel constantly like a claustrophobe, I'm losing all motivation for pretty much anything and my ability to think and communicate is diminishing by the day and it's reached the stage where it's now so pronounced I can fucking see it. Now you could say I've led a sheltered life and it's not really been that bad you drama queen, people have much worse to deal with, and you'd be right, they do. Take the millions of people that live in squalor, that have lost their jobs, can't get another one and owe eight months rent. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they don't need to be released is terrifying. Absolutely terrifying.

Archive this thread with just Yev's posts, please.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What makes the release from this lockdown any different to the one last summer? Don’t say ‘because old people have been vaccinated’. That wouldn’t be a reasonable argument.

Have you looked at what actually happened last summer? We started releasing some restrictions from May (outdoor meeting / recreation in limited numbers was allowed, for example). First it was two people and then it went to six. Non-essential shops and garden gatherings opened from I think June. Hospitality came back in July along with larger (but not mass) indoor and outdoor gatherings being allowed. Cases fell until July, remained very low until mid September and only then rose (if you look at the variant timelines, I'm fairly convinced this was due to other variants coming back from European holidays). So the oft quoted idea that cases 'skyrocketed' as soon as any restrictions were lifted is, if I may use the phrase, complete bollocks.

Armed with the vaccines, a similar type of schedule (but obviously several months ahead in the year) should be the least of our ambitions.


Those comparisons to COVID are ridiculous, but I think you probably know that. If one bloke gets cancer that is a whole different ball game to one person getting COVID and coughing in a room of people.

Those comparisons are not to Covid, they are to the possibility of the emergence of a vaccine-resistant Covid variant of considerable severity. Given that we know that the existing vaccines are highly effective against severe disease in all known variants (and that they are highly effective against everything in almost all variants), this is not a risk for which we should curtail freedoms.

They are good comparisons imo. We could ban lots of things to protect people from cancer. We could shut down Naples and move them all to Norway. But we don't, because a certain amount of risk MUST be accepted in human society. So it is with Covid variants.

[Shindig]

The post summer bump could also have something to do with Eat out to Help Out. The main thing about the current lockdown is how occupied the hospitals are. That will take a month to come down, maybe more. If politicians want this to the be the last lockdown, you have to royally stamp it down.

[Waffdon]

It’s the schools and somewhat uni. Scotland didn’t have any deaths for weeks and barely any cases throughout when the pubs opened. Only increased again in September. Open the pubs

[Offshore Toon]

I think what everyone is trying to say is:

https://i.imgur.com/0zhjhIN.jpg

[Don]

Don't look back. That's not the way we're headed.

[Spikey M]

I think what everyone is trying to say is:

https://i.imgur.com/0zhjhIN.jpg

:D

Live. Laugh. Lockdown.

[Magic]

What's the worst thing you would do to get out of lockdown?

[Spikey M]

What's the worst thing you would do to get out of lockdown?

Sacrifice most of your families

[Don]

I would have sucked a dick to avoid the last 12 months. I can't imagine the long term mental scars would be any worse.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Pretty low bar imo.

[Foe]

If we are relying on track and trace as a metric for escape we are struggling.

I imagine a lot of the younger generation aren’t bothering with having it , and the older ones will become bias to ignoring it and not knowing so they can keep going with what they need to do.

I don’t have the app, and I won’t ever get it.

To chime in a little also, if the steer of “the vaccinated can do what they want but you can’t” becomes the norm I all but guarantee the majority of 16-28 year olds completely ignore that.

The police will either be fining them all, or turning a blind eye. Selective enforcement will not work.

[Spikey M]

I imagine it would be more like 16 - anyone who isn't vaccinated and isn't a sap.

[Magic]

I would have sucked a dick to avoid the last 12 months. I can't imagine the long term mental scars would be any worse.

I was thinking the same tbh. In fact that probably doesn't scratch the surface of the depths of depravity I'd stoop to to get the clubs open. We should create a game show. Most depraved act gets to club.

[Spikey M]

That wouldn't work for me. Get me in an Airport Lounge and it's all aboard the Felching Boat though.

[7om]

Have you looked at what actually happened last summer? We started releasing some restrictions from May (outdoor meeting / recreation in limited numbers was allowed, for example). First it was two people and then it went to six. Non-essential shops and garden gatherings opened from I think June. Hospitality came back in July along with larger (but not mass) indoor and outdoor gatherings being allowed. Cases fell until July, remained very low until mid September and only then rose (if you look at the variant timelines, I'm fairly convinced this was due to other variants coming back from European holidays). So the oft quoted idea that cases 'skyrocketed' as soon as any restrictions were lifted is, if I may use the phrase, complete bollocks.

Armed with the vaccines, a similar type of schedule (but obviously several months ahead in the year) should be the least of our ambitions.

I've had a quick Google but I can't find the testing capacity numbers back then but I don't think they were anywhere near what we have now. Hospitalisations, on the other hand, began rising again in late August. Why do you think that might be?


Those comparisons are not to Covid, they are to the possibility of the emergence of a vaccine-resistant Covid variant of considerable severity. Given that we know that the existing vaccines are highly effective against severe disease in all known variants (and that they are highly effective against everything in almost all variants), this is not a risk for which we should curtail freedoms.

They are good comparisons imo. We could ban lots of things to protect people from cancer. We could shut down Naples and move them all to Norway. But we don't, because a certain amount of risk MUST be accepted in human society. So it is with Covid variants.

On these points we don't know the efficacy of the vaccines versus the variants. Very little of that has gone through peer-review and publication. We have absolutely no data on how the vaccines handle the transmissabilty of the variants, which is exactly what I am worried about. I don't give a shit about mild-moderate disease.

And I agree will will have to accept a degree of risk in future. I can't see us eradicating this.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The problem here is that your default position is that we should extend lockdown until we are absolutely certain, just in case, which is not a humane one and even in a world where it does save lives otherwise lost to Covid, unfortunately those are not the only concern. There will also be a massive Pandora's Box of unintended consequences.

Things always end up like this when I get into debates with scientists. There is such a massive difference between the way scientists think and the way a politics grad / salesman like me would think, for you it's about being sure and doing things carefully and methodically; for me it's a real world results business, I don't give a fuck what is or isn't peer reviewed, if it looks pretty good then let's run with it. And these vaccines look pretty good.

[7om]

:D

That's why peer review exists. Because you have the dishonest twats who run the media will not (read: can not) report science to save their lives. Until proven otherwise I believe we need to assume the vaccine does not stop transmission and unfortunately that equates to continued lockdown.

I don't want this long term. Get the over-60s done and get case numbers down and I'll join you in asking for easing.

[Spikey M]

Peer review exists so bored scientists can argue over trivialities for decades.

(I know what the purpose of it is, but that's what becomes of it)

[niko_cee]

How the beach 'super-spreader' myth can inform UK's future Covid response

They were images that seemed to define a hot, febrile, and dangerous summer: massed ranks of daytrippers swamping Britain’s beaches, making the most of the June sunshine after months of restrictions – and, some front pages suggested, creating an appalling risk of coronavirus infection.

Eight months later, the headlines tell a different story: there was no real danger at all.

According to Prof Mark Woolhouse, an epidemiologist at Edinburgh University who sits on the government’s SPI-M committee, the chance of a super-spreader event among the crowds that turned up from Bournemouth to Southend was minimal in theory – and nonexistent in practice.

“Over the summer we were treated to all this on the television news, pictures of crowded beaches, and there was an outcry about this,” he told MPs. “There were no outbreaks linked to public beaches. There’s never been a Covid-19 outbreak linked to a beach, ever, anywhere in the world, to the best of my knowledge.”

If that version of events seems at odds with stern warnings from the health secretary, Matt Hancock, that outdoor exercise could be banned, and an accusation that sunbathers were putting lives at risk, it is wholly consistent with the scientific evidence, other experts agree.

“We have known for some time that only about 10% of transmission events are linked to outdoor activities,” said Dr Müge Çevik, a lecturer in infectious diseases and medical virology at the University of St Andrews.

“Even those events generally involve either prolonged close contact or a mixture of indoor and outdoor time. We had a lot of existing knowledge even when the pandemic began about respiratory viruses and how they transmit in general, and everything directs us to the conditions in people’s homes and workplaces.”

Nobody disputes that there were some possible knock-on risks during the heatwave, on crowded trains or overused toilets – and the traffic jams and litter the crowds brought had a very real effect on local residents’ quality of life.

Still, reality was never quite as apocalyptic as the telephoto lens pictures which appeared to show a sea of humanity all but on top of each other – in fact, for the most part, just a trick of perspective.

Instead, some suggest, Woolhouse’s intervention is a reminder that the narrative propagated in parts of the media about the daytrippers had some of the qualities of a moral panic.

Woolhouse, for his part, has been taken by surprise by the interest in his comments – which he presumed to be a statement of a generally understood fact.

“This is not a subtle picture,” he said. “The published studies were already quite clear at the time … but after the reaction to my comment I am now concerned that this is not fully understood and maybe this is something the politicians do need to factor more into their thinking. As they make their plans to get us out of this, maybe they do need to be reappraised of where the risks really lie.”

To Vikki Slade, the Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole council leader for the Lib Dems who was ousted a few months later by the Conservatives, Woolhouse’s evidence is a bitterly ironic reminder of the difficulties she and her colleagues faced. “We were under siege,” she said. “I was working all hours, I had satellite trucks lined up outside my house for interviews. It felt like the world had come to Bournemouth.”

With the media spotlight simply intensifying local anger, “we were trying to balance the message that there was no evidence that large numbers of people coming to the beach presented a risk, but there was a negative impact on the local community in terms of their fear and perception of harm. And we just had insufficient resources to deal with the influx. But there was not a danger around the virus – it was the arrival of so many people into a small area without enough facilities open to deal with them.”

Lucy Yardley, a professor of health psychology at the University of Southampton who sits on Sage, suggested that the government must learn the lessons from last summer’s debacle – and bear in mind that if people are barred from congregating outside, they are more likely to do so indoors, where the risks are greater.

“It’s a really important message, and this is the right time to push it home,” she said. “The difference between indoor and outdoor is huge. Every report about restrictions and enforcement focused on outdoor contacts distracts from the places where the transmission is really happening.”

To Çevik, the hysteria over the beach gatherings in some quarters was, above all, evidence of how dislocated some pockets of social media users are from the reality of about 15 million people who are still going to work every day. “Low-income families have been working throughout this pandemic, and they are much more likely to live in overcrowded housing,” she said. “If you live in a big house and order everything on Amazon, you might be shocked by those images. But they’re missing the bigger picture.”

:happycry:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah, but the problem is that science is about process but governance is about decision-making. If you hand either one over to the clutches of the other then it fucks everything up.

[bruhnaldo]

I was told yesterday only 30% of eligible healthcare workers in the biggest hospital conglomerate in the region signed up for the vaccine.

30%. These are doctors nurses radiologists you know anybody in the hospital lol

[bruhnaldo]

Oh! And that 30% was actually high!!! We have the highest region!! Lmao

[7om]

God bless Florida.

[randomlegend]

We've done first jabs on almost every hospital worker.

[-james-]

I've read that niko article and signed up for a game of 5-a-side tomorrow. Fuck it.

[Spikey M]

Can't wait to lockdown all summer only for Bruh to visit with the Florida VARIANT.

[bruhnaldo]

yea there’s no way this ever ends.

[Baz]

Cheer up Yev mate

[Jimmy Floyd]

If they don't announce some kind of relaxation on outdoor sports and recreation in Boris's unlock speech next week, it's going to be pretty outrageous.

Last year the following was relaxed on 13 May with reported deaths at a rolling average of 368.3 We're currently at 551.5 and falling fast (was 750+ a week ago), so all these should be allowed within 1-2 weeks imo:


From today, people are allowed to spend more time outdoors

They will be able to go to parks and beaches to sunbathe, have a picnic and go fishing

Outdoor sports courts can reopen, including tennis and basketball courts as well as golf courses

People will also be able to see one person from another household, as long as they follow social distance guidance

This follows scientific advice that the risk of infection outside is significantly lower than inside

All of the new regulations are subject to social distancing rules

[Yevrah]

Some more things.

"We absolutely can't afford another lockdown, so we mustn't relax this one too soon"

I'm increasingly seeing this and err, they're the same thing.

"Numbers must be reduced until test and trace can cope with it"

Test and trace has never coped, it's useless and we're useless at it.

"Variants"

Variants will be everywhere, absolutely everywhere. We know about some. If we're genuinely worried about them close the borders properly and close them now. I know we can grow them, but if we're waiting for point 2 to be enacted then why would we let any others in.

[-james-]

International travel is the lowest of low hanging fruit and should probably be restricted all year, and I say this as someone with parents who live abroad.

[Spikey M]

I can't imagine many of us disagree there.

[Don]

The Niko article :happycry:

Pull up the pages of the thread where we discussed the Bournemouth/Sydney/etc beach pics and publically humiliate every cretin that said a bad word about man enjoying mother nature in the most natural of acts.

My short and long-term recall is fully burned out thanks to this so I will be sweating I am not one of said cretins.

[niko_cee]

That article is from the fearmonger generals at the Grauniad as well.

[Spikey M]

The Niko article :happycry:

Pull up the pages of the thread where we discussed the Bournemouth/Sydney/etc beach pics and publically humiliate every cretin that said a bad word about man enjoying mother nature in the most natural of acts.

My short and long-term recall is fully burned out thanks to this so I will be sweating I am not one of said cretins.

It's before we knew better to be fair. Anyone still panicking about passing someone in the street needs help though.

I still remember holding the door open for a woman at a shop and having her look at me like I was a dangerous lunatic, before saying "no, it's ok" and letting the door shut in her face so she could open it herself.

OTT Feminist or OTT Team Panic member. TTH decides.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've found a post from 25 June where I lol at those thinking that there would be outbreaks on beaches, although further down the same page I also say the government will never impose another lockdown because it's too costly, so yeah.

[7om]

Responsible citizen :henn0rz: