Coronavirus Death Thread

[Andy]

It's hardly a surprise people are enjoying time off with 80% pay.

[Queenslander]

Ate a decent edible for my walk to the pharmacy and I was peaking by the time I got there and NO one was social distancing. Very very nervous wait for my head meds.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The other thing I'm looking forward to is having 18 days' holiday to use from 1 November until 31 December (or whenever furlough ends) and all the furloughed people having the same.

[Shindig]

That's why our work brought in a policy of using 10 days by the end of June. I've used 11. I've only got 5 days to book for the rest of the year and I can carry that over.

[Ian]

I assume Jimmy's in a slightly different situation as he seems to be one of a very small number of people in his office and presumably won't be allowed to take holiday. And of course they've furloughed everybody else so they can't either. And their management appears to be insane so I guess they're going to expect everybody to give them up or carry them over but I dunno how that works legally. I know employers can tell people when they're taking holiday but how would that situation work?

Either way, Jimmy's insane senior managers are going to be flabbergasted when the turkeys do not gleefully vote for Christmas.

[Andy]

The other thing I'm looking forward to is having 18 days' holiday to use from 1 November until 31 December (or whenever furlough ends) and all the furloughed people having the same.

Employers have been told all holiday from this year has to carry over into the next two work years. I'm not sure if that's law or guidance.

[Baz]

Are you still in touch with anyone from the Koreans’ office? What’s happening there?

[Foe]

Employers have been told all holiday from this year has to carry over into the next two work years. I'm not sure if that's law or guidance.

Doubt it’s law because our gaff have already come out and said they aren’t doing that.

Basically going to start enforcing people to take leave if necessary.

Jim, have you booked any annual leave or raised that question with your boss? Sounds like you need to get that absolutely clear so you don’t get double fucked. Your work sound like a bunch or arses.

[SvN]

I've told people on furlough that they are losing 2 days of holiday every month.

[Foe]

Are you still in touch with anyone from the Koreans’ office? What’s happening there?

Would be interested in this also, but assume we will never know.

Can imagine it’s a case of “what virus. Work work work”.

[Foe]

I've told people on furlough that they are losing 2 days of holiday every month.

Anyone kick up a fuss?

How have your staff handled being on furlough?

[Ian]

I assume the extra holiday being carried over is "if you can't practically get it all used by all your staff you have to let them carry more over but you can spread it over two years if need be."

[Jimmy Floyd]

Employers have been told all holiday from this year has to carry over into the next two work years. I'm not sure if that's law or guidance.

I believe this is what will happen, but the logistics of it sound mental.


I've told people on furlough that they are losing 2 days of holiday every month.

Is that legal? I mean, since you've done it I presume it is, but if so I am shocked that my lot haven't done it for the furloughed people. Our MD just keeps saying furloughed people can't take holiday.

[Magic]

I've told people on furlough that they are losing 2 days of holiday every month.

This is fine as long as they aren't doing any work or having to 'check in' or attend calls etc (ala my old work, cunts).

[Andy]

Here is the info about holiday leave going into the next two years.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rules-on-carrying-over-annual-leave-to-be-relaxed-to-support-key-industries-during-covid-19

[Jimmy Floyd]

Are you still in touch with anyone from the Koreans’ office? What’s happening there?

Haven't spoken to a soul from there since the day I left, but I imagine they're all systems go with masks. It's only a little place with ten people, albeit one that does $100 million a month.

[Andy]

I've told people on furlough that they are losing 2 days of holiday every month.

I'm continuing to gain holiday as normal and they are adding an extra days holiday for each bank holiday during the furlough period.

[Foe]

Haven't spoken to a Seoul from there since the day I left, but I imagine they're all systems go with masks. It's only a little place with ten people, albeit one that does $100 million a month.

Quality pun. Props.

[SvN]

This is fine as long as they aren't doing any work or having to 'check in' or attend calls etc (ala my old work, cunts).

My people are properly off, I've told them not to even check emails.




Is that legal? I mean, since you've done it I presume it is, but if so I am shocked that my lot haven't done it for the furloughed people. Our MD just keeps saying furloughed people can't take holiday.

Yep, the same rules apply as if they were working. As long as I give them sufficient notice, I can insist they take "holidays" on days of my choosing. There's a line about "considering if they can enjoy their holiday", but bollocks to that.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/holiday-entitlement-and-pay-during-coronavirus-covid-19

Here's the relevant bit:


Furloughed workers
Workers on furlough can take holiday without disrupting their furlough. The notice requirements for their employer requiring a worker to take leave or to refuse a request for leave continue to apply. Employers should engage with their workforce and explain reasons for wanting them to take leave before requiring them to do so.

If an employer requires a worker to take holiday while on furlough, the employer should consider whether any restrictions the worker is under, such as the need to socially distance or self-isolate, would prevent the worker from resting, relaxing and enjoying leisure time, which is the fundamental purpose of holiday.

Everyone I spoke to was completely fine with it, but then again why wouldn't they be, considering they're getting full pay for months of no work anyway?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Quality pun. Props.

You think I didn't hear every one of those during the three (!) years I was there.

'That sounds like a good Korea move mate'
'You've sold your Seoul to the devil there mate'

[Magic]

SvN. :cool:

Forgiven you now for the way you treated that apprentice guy, you cunt.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yep, the same rules apply as if they were working. As long as I give them sufficient notice, I can insist they take "holidays" on days of my choosing. There's a line about "considering if they can enjoy their holiday", but bollocks to that.

In that case my best guess is that our mob haven't read the guidelines properly or it hasn't occurred to them, in which case lol.

[Shindig]

I'm trying to think if anybody in our office actually got furloughed. The people off are off because of long-term sick.

[Foe]

In that case my best guess is that our mob haven't read the guidelines properly or it hasn't occurred to them, in which case lol.

That means best case for you is to be the cunt and suggest it, so you don’t get fucked in November.

Suppose for svn if the employees had said nah, he could’ve turned around and said fuck you then, I’m not topping up the 20%. Amicable, practical solution.

[Yevrah]

SvN may well end up having to give those people that holiday back.

At the moment it's somewhat unclear as to whether holiday accrues while you're furloughed, but it does, for example, when you're on maternity leave.

[Magic]

SvN may well end up having to give those people that holiday back.

At the moment it's somewhat unclear as to whether holiday accrues while you're furloughed, but it does, for example, when you're on maternity leave.

Why? He's doing a good thing by his employees. Whether that's 'legislation' or not surely to fuck they won't contest?

[Yevrah]

Why? He's doing a good thing by his employees. Whether that's 'legislation' or not surely to fuck they won't contest?

Why's he doing a good thing? Not saying he's doing a bad thing, but it's the government doing the good thing, surely. SvN's just told his staff not to work at all, which they shouldn't be doing if he's claiming furlough money. If they are and a claim goes in it's technically fraud.

And it doesn't matter whether it's a good thing or not anyway, if it transpires once all is clear that you accrue holiday while on furlough (which very well may be the case) then he has to give them the holiday.

[Spikey M]

Wait, so these Furloughed fucks don't have to use their holiday, but I do because I'm still working? I'm getting closer and closer to that protest in the park.

[Yevrah]

Wait, so these Furloughed fucks don't have to use their holiday, but I do because I'm still working? I'm getting closer and closer to that protest in the park.

It'll be over by the end of July anyway, which is when the mass redundancy culls will start.

[Yevrah]

And look at it this way. The furlouged may be living it up on 80% and may have a shitload of holiday to take when they return, but they're also in the group of people who're most at risk of redundancy when the scheme is removed.

Having a job at the end of this scheme will be a far better result than getting paid 80% to watch Netflix during it.

[SvN]

Why's he doing a good thing? Not saying he's doing a bad thing, but it's the government doing the good thing, surely. SvN's just told his staff not to work at all, which they shouldn't be doing if he's claiming furlough money. If they are and a claim goes in it's technically fraud.

And it doesn't matter whether it's a good thing or not anyway, if it transpires once all is clear that you accrue holiday while on furlough (which very well may be the case) then he has to give them the holiday.

It's not important whether people accrue holiday while on furlough. My staff have a fixed number of holiday days per year - I'm not depriving them of holiday, I'm simply specifying that they need to take 2 days per month while on furlough.

The guidelines in the link I shared earlier clearly state that furloughed staff can take "holiday" days.

[Yevrah]

It's not important whether people accrue holiday while on furlough. My staff have a fixed number of holiday days per year - I'm not depriving them of holiday, I'm simply specifying that they need to take 2 days per month while on furlough.

The guidelines in the link I shared earlier clearly state that furloughed staff can take "holiday" days.

And you're paying them at what level while they take that holiday?

[SvN]

And you're paying them at what level while they take that holiday?

They're being paid in full.

It's really simple because all of my staff are full time that work 37.5 hours per week. There's no shift work, part-timers or anything that would complicate things.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Having a job at the end of this scheme will be a far better result than getting paid 80% to watch Netflix during it.

Definitely this and is why, despite all my whingeing, I am also shutting up and getting on with it at work - I need to stay where I currently am, at the front of the queue.

[Yevrah]

They're being paid in full.

Fair enough.

Misunderstood from your opening post about them losing two days a month.

[SvN]

Fair enough.

Misunderstood from your opening post about them losing two days a month.

Yeah, I just meant they're losing two days from their annual holiday allowance.

[Baz]

And look at it this way. The furlouged may be living it up on 80% and may have a shitload of holiday to take when they return, but they're also in the group of people who're most at risk of redundancy when the scheme is removed.

Having a job at the end of this scheme will be a far better result than getting paid 80% to watch Netflix during it.
True but think of the pricks on 80% pay (or 100% in some cases!) who will waltz back into their jobs no problem. I’ll be jealous of them.

The ones without jobs waiting for them, less so.

[Foe]

It'll be over by the end of July anyway, which is when the mass redundancy culls will start.

Going to be a blood bath.

Saw a load of guys packing up beer from a local bar here in cases (assume owners clearing the joint, didn’t look like rogues) so I guess that’s them closing down, or at least shutting that particular location for good.

[Byron]

To chip in on the holiday stuff, our work sent an email to say that they had examined the government guidance with legal and there was no obligation to allow us to carry all our holiday over. However management have said discretionary measures are there and they'll let people do it as long as they aren't cunts about it and trying to book it all off at the same time.

However we're all still working as normal from home. Wife is on furlough and she's been told she must take a week of holiday at end of May.

[phonics]

Work has asked us to book every day of holiday between now and the 31st December. Any idea why this would be? Is my company broke?

[Byron]

That's surely workflow planning?

[Waffdon]

We have to have taken 10 days by end of June. I’ve already taken 11 from birthday, Budapest and hangovers from New Year. 19 days plus public to take from July-Dec :drool:

[phonics]

That's surely workflow planning?

I mean maybe but we've never been asked to do this before.

[Byron]

I'm guessing your company has never experienced a worldwide pandemic before either.

[Waffdon]

Our work asks us to do it but I just get annual leave off at a days notice half the time as I don’t take anything during school holidays.

[hfswjyr]

Entitled annual leave is a cost/liability to the company, so they are trying to get you to use it now (during a period where there is potentially less workload/revenue anyway). This reduces company liabilities.

I've been on "voluntary" 1 day a week annual leave (essentially reducing our hours to 4 working days per week) since April, which then became forced temporary changes to bring all our contracts down to 4 days per week until July.

I would also be very surprised if many companies carried so much profit margin/cashflow to allow staff to be furloughed for much longer. I don't know the details of the government subsidy scheme in the UK, but the cost to the economy and businesses must be massive. Jobs are bound to be lost in mass if this carries on any longer.

[SvN]

Most businesses aren't topping up salaries, so the furloughed staff are costing them fuck all.

[Don]

Until July when the carnage begins :drool:

[Smjffy]

https://thekrakk.wordpress.com/2020/05/15/thekrakk-1-rishi-sunak-and-the-job-retention-scam/

:cool:

Blog it.

[hfswjyr]

Most businesses aren't topping up salaries, so the furloughed staff are costing them fuck all.

So the UK government is paying 80% of full salaries without a salary cap? That seems excessive.

[Magic]

So the UK government is paying 80% of full salaries without a salary cap? That seems excessive.

Cap is £2,500pcm.

[Queenslander]

In my world of volunteer work I have found out that people with serious drug addiction and severe mental health sysmptons are getting $750 a week. No structure in there life and quite transient in the ice world.

That is going to be fun for Emergency rooms and Public Mental health facilities.

[Kikó]

We're starting to let people go now after a couple of months of reprieve. No furlough enacted (or needed).

[Foe]

Yeah furlough all well and good if things go back to normal after. No happening.

We’ve not furloughed anyone as far as I’m aware but gonna have a cull in a few months for sure.

[SvN]

We're starting to let people go now after a couple of months of reprieve. No furlough enacted (or needed).

I don't understand this comment. Surely you're better off furloughing people than just letting them go, with no prospect of them getting a new job in the current climate?

[Giggles]

Phase 1 of 5 of reopening here to go ahead as planned and then reviewed in June to see if phase 2 can go ahead. Too much too soon imo.


1261317357504471042

[Spikey M]

I don't understand this comment. Surely you're better off furloughing people than just letting them go, with no prospect of them getting a new job in the current climate?

What a banker.

[Yevrah]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52677194

Lol.

[Spikey M]

Who could have foreseen such a thing?

[Magic]

Can you eat ass whilst fighting a tooth abscess? Also how long after a tooth extraction can you eat ass?

[Kikó]

I don't understand this comment. Surely you're better off furloughing people than just letting them go, with no prospect of them getting a new job in the current climate?

We've not needed to furlough because the economy still needs banks to help in function in whatever format (trading, lending, debt issuance, mergers/acquisitions, private clients, retail clients etc) but we had committed to making redundancies as part of the "transformation" programme which is what we need to do with or without furlough.

[Waffdon]

Can you eat ass whilst fighting a tooth abscess? Also how long after a tooth extraction can you eat ass?

You downgraded with this girl. Sake, MJ

[John Arne]

This is an interesting listen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NGVPeyA2fo&feature=emb_title

[Giggles]

So that’s what Suggs is up to these days.

[Boydy]

Can you eat ass whilst fighting a tooth abscess? Also how long after a tooth extraction can you eat ass?

Ask your dentist.

[SincereTheRebel]

Lads. My father passed suddenly at the start of April. Ive only just had confirmation of the cause over the past few days. He died from a perforated duodenal ulsa with associated haemorrhage.

Days before he passed, he stated he had stomach ache which is nothing new. Ive explained before to TTH how I wake up in the morning feeling really bad at least 10 times a year. I have a stomach ache and start vomiting. Usually, within 12 hours, the vomiting usually stops with me and then I have the flu for a week later. We both seem to suffer from the same thing. Because we usually have the flu and a bad cough for a week after. We just put it down to the typical common flu. I usually recover quickly from stomach ache and vomiting but my father usually takes a week to recover.

Because of this corona stuff, I didn't want to take any chances as he was curled up in pain for over a week. I called the ambulance the day before he passed. They did all the home test and he was ok. They stated you can go to the hospital if the pain was that bad, but he refused and would rather take painkillers. He generally does not go to the doctors for anything. He definitely wasn't going while we were in lockdown. He refused to go.

The next morning is when I feel his body probably started to shut down, he had difficulty hearing what I was saying. He said his ears felt funny. His hands and feet were hurting. He said his head and legs started hurting and could hardly walk. Then he started to act really strange and talking nonsense. I told him im taking him to the hospital. He went to the bathroom and when he came back, he started to breathe heavily and the collapsed and stopped breathing. I applied CPR for around 10 minutes before the ambulance arrived but they couldn't do anything to get his heart started again.

We both have had previous tests because of the stomach problems we both have had, but they have never found anything. Ive been advised need to have some scans now I know there was an actual problem. I also found out today, my grandfather a duodenal ulsa which he has been living with for years.

I decided to quarantine with my parents since lockdown which was a good thing in the end. I would have hated for him to pass in the hospital, knowing it was his biggest fear or if he passed away and I was at my house playing PS4.

Fuck COVID 19.

[Giggles]

Jaysus sorry to hear that. A lot there to come to terms with, hopefully things turn out ok with your tests at least.

[Luca]

Fuck me, Sincere. I’m so sorry. That’s awful... :|

[Spikey M]

Big love Sincere. Look after your mum and yourself.

[Magic]

Sincere I am so fucking sorry to hear that mate. :(

[Queenslander]

Im so sorry mate that is a heavy burden.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Fuck, I'm so sorry Sincere.

[Mike]

That’s awful :( take care

[Boydy]

Christ. Sorry to hear, Sincere.

[Disco]

Fuck me that's rough man, hopefully you and your grandad can get the right treatment now though.

[Kikó]

That is fucking shit sincere. Sorry mate.

[Yevrah]

So sorry to hear that Sincere. Hope you're coping as best you can buddy.

[Shindig]

Jesus. Condolences to you and your family, mate.

[Foe]

Sounds awful chief, condolences.

Keep your chin up and look after you and your family.

[SincereTheRebel]

Thanks for the kind words. Was in a dilemma on where to bury him. He has been back and forth yearly between England and Jamaica for the past 30 years. He has only been back to Haiti once in the past 20 so I was never going to bury him there. Other family got involved from all the islands but my mom and I decided its best to bury him in England as my mom has zero interest returning to Jamaica now.

[Jimmy Floyd]

All the best to you, Sincere.

[7om]

Really sorry to hear that Sincere. Take care of yourself and your mom.

[Byron]

Oh fuck. So sorry to hear Sincere, thats fucking awful.

[Spikey M]

I wish there were a few posts between this and the above but:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52685773

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/universe-of-smash-bros-lawl/images/4/4b/220px-Mike-Myers-Austin-Powers-1-.jpg/revision/latest/top-crop/width/360/height/450?cb=20181020185425


YEAH BABY.

[Don]

Condolences. Thoughts with you and the family, bro.

[Shindig]

I wish there were a few posts between this and the above but:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52685773

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/universe-of-smash-bros-lawl/images/4/4b/220px-Mike-Myers-Austin-Powers-1-.jpg/revision/latest/top-crop/width/360/height/450?cb=20181020185425


YEAH BABY.

Government mandated prostitution is ... a very Dutch direction.

[mugbull]

Sincere :(

I can’t imagine how tough it is to be there when your parent dies, performing CPR on them and everything. Hope you’re able to manage. You’re a tough lad though, i know you will

[Baz]

I was wondering where you’d gone. I wish my presumptions of “doesn’t come on TTH while furloughed” had been true now.

Sorry mate.

[Shindig]

Gateshead's Council leader's advised people to fuck the government off and stay at home. They made it sound like the hospitals were bursting.

[Spikey M]

They will be soon. This is madness.

[Don]

Who knew basing the strategy around the indeterminable R number would cause problems, you just can't envisage such things.

They all need to chuck the towel in. Shield and re-open.

[Ian]

Sincere. :(

[Jimmy Floyd]

There won't be a second spike (yet). There hasn't been one anywhere else. Nothing has happened here that hasn't happened in other countries.

[Don]

It's an inevitability though. It took at least 2 months for it to be noticeable in round 1 so assume it should start slaying sometime in June.

[randomlegend]

Fiancée's grandad died of it yesterday. Another one for the care home toll. He's the 9th resident of his home to go so far.

[randomlegend]

I wish there were a few posts between this and the above but:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52685773

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/universe-of-smash-bros-lawl/images/4/4b/220px-Mike-Myers-Austin-Powers-1-.jpg/revision/latest/top-crop/width/360/height/450?cb=20181020185425


YEAH BABY.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/oJ7GLsKQcY8F4_7UGRLiTDaucp9N8eK_tvmr76oUN2ku2DCSsv BZ5hD1ixP_CD-Wy89eS-q86-C7ZqpWb3D-pqP_U0IsfSMclc7ITPkZmbzPwwDkVCwtYGPiOuzdfpic8k29rc 5wf5eeJ_Mbu9pTt8U

[randomlegend]

Just got to Sincere's post on my back-scroll. That's awful, so sorry to hear you had to go through that. Hope you're holding up OK.

[Lofty]

My condolences, Sincere.

My mum is currently going ape shit because my idiot 72 year old step dad for some reason has his mate, who lives in Liverpool, stood in their kitchen in Barrow-in-Furness having a cup of tea. 'No worse than flu' according to this joiner, so that's sorted then. The stubborn old fuck is going to catch this I'm afraid.

[Smjffy]

There won't be a second spike (yet). There hasn't been one anywhere else. Nothing has happened here that hasn't happened in other countries.

I must admit that I haven't watched too much about what has gone on in other countries but today I see a protest at Hyde Park turning nasty and since Wednesday I've seen countless clips of people using the trains and bus services. It will all go to shit before the end of the month is through, I reckon. A second spike of any sort will screw us for decades to come and I would say it's odds on that that is what is going to happen.

[Shindig]

The London R number had me perplexed a bit. I figured anywhere with the amount of movement on the tubes would spike their rate up. Have .... have they done it? Have they managed herd immunity?

[Spikey M]

It would take about 2 weeks for the first sign of any increase.

[Shindig]

I know but I still find it strange that London has the lowest transmission rate in the country by a decent margin.

[Kikó]

More office based workers who can wfh?

[Waffdon]

The state of folk in Hyde Park :D

[Luke Emia]

Who was the French footballer on the front page of the papers this morning? I’m assuming his surname rhymes with Drogba?

[Lee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52677194

Lol.

It’s up because there is more of it in care homes than in the community. There isn’t that much of it left outside. You could have an R of 10 in care homes and 0 in the community and the national number would be 10.

For most of us the new number is good news.

[Yevrah]

It’s up because there is more of it in care homes than in the community. There isn’t that much of it left outside. You could have an R of 10 in care homes and 0 in the community and the national number would be 10.


You what? How the hell does that work?

[Spikey M]

It’s up because there is more of it in care homes than in the community. There isn’t that much of it left outside. You could have an R of 10 in care homes and 0 in the community and the national number would be 10.

For most of us the new number is good news.

0.27% of people outside of NHS and Care workers had it over the last 2 weeks. That's 1 in 400. That doesn't seem that low to me.

[Magic]

0.27% of people outside of NHS and Care workers had it over the last 2 weeks. That's 1 in 400. That doesn't seem that low to me.

Here we go again.

[Spikey M]

What's up cunt chops?

[Lee]

You what? How the hell does that work?

Exactly as described. The same reason it went up to Germany to 1.3 because there was an outbreak in a single community which dropped back to 0.8 as soon as they detected and isolated people. The smaller the overall number, the more volatile the overall reproductive number.

So taking it to the extreme, the disease could only exist in a single setting and have a high R. It not existing elsewhere doesn’t mean the R isn’t the R. It’s just the reproductive value of the disease where it exists.

[Lee]

0.27% of people outside of NHS and Care workers had it over the last 2 weeks. That's 1 in 400. That doesn't seem that low to me.

It does to me. In any case it’s going down and once it is low enough (which won’t be long given how quickly it’s falling) you just track and trace cases where they emerge. Which is why there won’t be a second wave anything like this first one.

The government has done a fucking great job at scaring people out of their skins here, I’ll give them that.

[Yevrah]

Exactly as described. The same reason it went up to Germany to 1.3 because there was an outbreak in a single community. The smaller the overall number, the more volatile the overall reproductive number.

So taking it to the extreme, the disease could only exist in a single setting and have a high R. It not existing elsewhere doesn’t mean the R isn’t the R. It’s just the reproductive value of the disease where it exists.

I don't understand. What you're saying makes it a completely meaningless number.

[Lee]

I don't understand. What you're saying makes it a completely meaningless number.

It doesn’t at all. It just means it isn’t the only thing you should be focused on. The R does exactly what it is supposed to do; it describes how many people are infected by a single person (or multiples thereof).

The reproductive value is below 1 everywhere other than perhaps Scotland and Northern Ireland. The epidemic is shrinking. The article underneath the headline you linked even says the reason the R has gone up is because the proportion of cases in care homes and hospitals is higher, and the R is higher (for obvious reasons) in those settings.

It’s terrible reporting combined with the tendency of people to shit themselves about this far more than is merited.

[Yevrah]

It doesn’t at all. It just means it isn’t the only thing you should be focused on. The R does exactly what it is supposed to do; it describes how many people are infected by a single person (or multiples thereof).

If you're saying our r is up only because it's rife in care homes and that it could be the same number nationally as it is in my house then it's a meaningless number.

[Yevrah]

The government has done a fucking great job at scaring people out of their skins here, I’ll give them that.

Once again, absolutely nothing to do with the scientific advisors? Just the government.

[Lee]

If you're saying our r is up only because it's rife in care homes and that it could be the same number nationally as it is in my house then it's a meaningless number.

It not meaning what you want it to mean doesn’t make it meaningless. It literally means what it means. If you’ve chosen to attach more meaning to it than what it’s meant for then it isn’t the fault of the metric.

[Lee]

Once again, absolutely nothing to do with the scientific advisors? Just the government.

The government chooses those advisors and makes decisions based on their advice. They’re free to cast their net wider.

Chris Whitty was only the other day at pains to tell everybody that for the vast majority this thing is a few days in bed at worst.

[Yevrah]

The government chooses those advisors and makes decisions based on their advice. They’re free to cast their net wider.

Chris Whitty was only the other day at pains to tell everybody that for the vast majority this thing is a few days in bed at worst.

Which is what the government have said too. :cab:

[Spikey M]

It does to me. In any case it’s going down and once it is low enough (which won’t be long given how quickly it’s falling) you just track and trace cases where they emerge. Which is why there won’t be a second wave anything like this first one.

The government has done a fucking great job at scaring people out of their skins here, I’ll give them that.

I'm not scared. My nearest and dearest are all under 40. We'll be fine. My concern is being stuck indoors again, no holidays, no restaurants, no fucking fun. With that in mind, risking a second wave can fuck right off.

[Kikó]

If continental Europe can open in June so can we. In September.

[Lee]

Which is what the government have said too. :cab:

I don’t really understand your issue. I mentioned the government (who are in charge and rightly accountable) in a single post and suddenly I’m determined to blame the government over advisors? They’re one and the same thing. If the advice is shit that’s on the government. They choose the fuckers.

And if they government is saying that, they aren’t saying it loudly enough. I’ve read through the last few pages of the thread (and similar places elsewhere) and you’d think this is the plague rather than something which has killed fewer than 240 under 60s with no other health conditions in England. So the message obviously hasn’t been clear enough.

[Shindig]

America's going to fuck this for the rest of us, unfortunately.

[Lee]

I'm not scared. My nearest and dearest are all under 40. We'll be fine. My concern is being stuck indoors again, no holidays, no restaurants, no fucking fun. With that in mind, risking a second wave can fuck right off.

If we have a second wave anything like this one it will be the result of incomprehensible government incompetence. As much as I’d love to level an accusation of such at our mob, I don’t see it.

Numbers are dropping and will continue to do so. We’ll be able to track and isolate as necessary. Life won’t go back to normal but it will be much closer to it than at present. We have the advantage of being able to see what happens elsewhere. So far countries which have opened up a bit (Germany, Austria, Norway, Denmark) haven’t seen a resurgence in case numbers or R in the wider community.

[Spikey M]

I don’t really understand your issue. I mentioned the government (who are in charge and rightly accountable) in a single post and suddenly I’m determined to blame the government over advisors? They’re one and the same thing. If the advice is shit that’s on the government. They choose the fuckers.

And if they government is saying that, they aren’t saying it loudly enough. I’ve read through the last few pages of the thread (and similar places elsewhere) and you’d think this is the plague rather than something which has killed fewer than 240 under 60s with no other health conditions in England. So the message obviously hasn’t been clear enough.

If they were to spread that message, the lockdown would have been completely ignored by half of the population.

[Yevrah]

Apologies Lee, don't mean to sound spikey.

The scared stuff just riles me as it's so tedious. Nobody thinks this is the plague.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've spent today writing a 1,300 word document on how to use cricket nets safely in groups of maximum two. This had better be the fucking plague.

[Yevrah]

I agree on the second wave though.

Given we basically did nothing to prevent this, for 3 months, you'd have to go some to hit those levels again.

[Lee]

If they were to spread that message, the lockdown would have been completely ignored by half of the population.

At some point in the not too distant future they’re going to have to. We can’t carry on like this and probably don’t need to.

For all the screaming headlines and furious tweets every time people venture outside when the sun appears, there hasn’t once been an increase in cases associated with the behaviours criticised. Because the chances of catching it outside unless you’re sat talking in somebody’s face for hours on end or coughing on somebody’s face are negligible.

We are going to have to stop certain things. Packed offices, pubs etc are off the table for a bit. But the propensity of the population to behave moronically has been hugely overplayed. People have played ball more than expected, by the government’s own admission. They don’t fancy getting it or killing granny.

[Lee]

Apologies Lee, don't mean to sound spikey.

The scared stuff just riles me as it's so tedious. Nobody thinks this is the plague.

I don’t think that’s true. Well, obviously it’s literally true but it’s obvious enough I’m exaggerating for effect. There are plenty who think it’s worse than it is. I get it. We haven’t experienced anything like this in our lifetimes and it is frightening. But we need to start moving towards managing the risk rather than hiding from it. It was only 80 years ago you could die of a cut finger. We still went to the pub.

[Yevrah]

I don’t think that’s true. Well, obviously it’s literally true. But there are plenty who think it’s worse than it is. I get it. We haven’t experienced anything like this in our lifetimes and it is frightening. But we need to start moving towards managing the risk rather than hiding from it. It was only 80 years ago you could die of a cut finger. We still went to the pub.

I genuinely don't think people are frightened, well, not beyond those that are actually at serious risk from it.

And yes, we do need to move on, hence why I've been so critical of the government and our advisors, as there seems to be no tangible plan.

[Lee]

I genuinely don't think people are frightened, well, not beyond those that are actually at serious risk from it.

And yes, we do need to move on, hence why I've been so critical of the government and our advisors, as there seems to be no tangible plan.

The most obvious plan means making a decision no government wants to make. Keep the old and (very) vulnerable locked away and let the rest of us get on with it as normal. And I mean properly as normal given the relative risk. People can choose not to if they like, of course.

The issue is the old and vulnerable won’t go for it. I wouldn’t if I were them. It’s unfair and unenforceable. And they’re the people who vote, don’t forget. So the rest of us are going to have to put up with something less than normal to protect those who are more at risk. I don’t suppose that’s actually that raw a deal.

I’m 36 a couple of years without the pub and foreign trips feels a bit annoying now but in a few years I’ll look back with pint in hand from some beach and not think much of it. The real problems start if it becomes apparent that a vaccine (or treatments) are fucking ages away. There will be real tensions between the generations of it comes to that. I doubt I’ll feel so reasonable about even this limited level of sacrifice if it’s indefinite.

[Shindig]

I don’t think that’s true. Well, obviously it’s literally true but it’s obvious enough I’m exaggerating for effect. There are plenty who think it’s worse than it is. I get it. We haven’t experienced anything like this in our lifetimes and it is frightening. But we need to start moving towards managing the risk rather than hiding from it. It was only 80 years ago you could die of a cut finger. We still went to the pub.

Yep. I'll reiterate how at work we're hearing a lot more claimants contemplating suicide over this. Heck, I scratch my head at the teenagers that wind up in the news for following through. For the most part, this is an inconvenience, not a terror.

[Foe]

The most obvious plan means making a decision no government wants to make. Keep the old and (very) vulnerable locked away and let the rest of us get on with it as normal. And I mean properly as normal given the relative risk. People can choose not to if they like, of course.

The issue is the old and vulnerable won’t go for it. I wouldn’t if I were them. It’s unfair and unenforceable. And they’re the people who vote, don’t forget. So the rest of us are going to have to put up with something less than normal to protect those who are more at risk. I don’t suppose that’s actually that raw a deal.

I’m 36 a couple of years without the pub and foreign trips feels a bit annoying now but in a few years I’ll look back with pint in hand from some beach and not think much of it. The real problems start if it becomes apparent that a vaccine (or treatments) are fucking ages away. There will be real tensions between the generations of it comes to that. I doubt I’ll feel so reasonable about even this limited level of sacrifice if it’s indefinite.

The rational ones might. You try telling 18-24 year olds you’re not getting to party and enjoy your youth for a few years because a disease that won’t effect you is about.

It’s been what 7 weeks and it’s already spilling over.

[Spikey M]

The most obvious plan means making a decision no government wants to make. Keep the old and (very) vulnerable locked away and let the rest of us get on with it as normal. And I mean properly as normal given the relative risk. People can choose not to if they like, of course.

The issue is the old and vulnerable won’t go for it. I wouldn’t if I were them. It’s unfair and unenforceable. And they’re the people who vote, don’t forget. So the rest of us are going to have to put up with something less than normal to protect those who are more at risk. I don’t suppose that’s actually that raw a deal.

I’m 36 a couple of years without the pub and foreign trips feels a bit annoying now but in a few years I’ll look back with pint in hand from some beach and not think much of it. The real problems start if it becomes apparent that a vaccine (or treatments) are fucking ages away. There will be real tensions between the generations of it comes to that. I doubt I’ll feel so reasonable about even this limited level of sacrifice if it’s indefinite.

My reasonableness is already at breaking point. The strategy in your first paragraph is absolutely what we should be doing and if Norman and Vera want to kick off / go out anyway, then let them crack on.

It is up to someone with a nut allergy to avoid nuts.

[Lee]

My reasonableness is already at breaking point. The strategy in your first paragraph is absolutely what we should be doing and if Norman and Vera want to kick off / go out anyway, then let them crack on.

It is up to someone with a nut allergy to avoid nuts.

To a point. But if every Norman and Vera is at it they end up taking up all the hospital beds and you’re not going to get your cancer treatment or your knee surgery. I understand Norman and Vera’s point, too. If I’m 80+ who the fuck knows whether I’m waking up with an exploding prostate or a massive stroke tomorrow anyway? I’ll take my chances and get a bit of pleasure out of seeing the grandkids rather than being sentenced to a lonely death.

Corfu got cancelled today, by the way. I’ve still not completely given up on Krakow but confidence is low. FFS.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There seem to be an alarming number of people out there (on twitter etc) who are currently bang up for locking down forever. Let's see how long that lasts. I'm on day 66 of not seeing anyone bar 4 much older colleagues and whilst the despair has bottomed out a bit, if I reach day 150 and I'm still not seeing more than my parents / one person at a time in a park, then the whole thing can fuck off.

[Lewis]

As I saw on Twitter the other day, the biggest problem with shutting the wrinklies away indefinitely is that an awful lot of people depend on them for childcare. Good luck plugging that one indefinitely.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The now-redundant restaurant critics can all become nannies to fill the void.

[Spikey M]

Make Team Furlough do it.

[Lewis]

It isn't safe!

[Disco]

Let the children go back to school but hold all the classes in pubs.

https://i.imgur.com/erTf2z6.png

[Spikey M]

Keep the schools closed so that the kids have to stay home. BUT, kids are asymptomatic super spreading cunts, so ORDER us all to work from pubs?

[ScousePig]

The most obvious plan means making a decision no government wants to make. Keep the old and (very) vulnerable locked away and let the rest of us get on with it as normal. And I mean properly as normal given the relative risk. People can choose not to if they like, of course.

The issue is the old and vulnerable won’t go for it. I wouldn’t if I were them. It’s unfair and unenforceable. And they’re the people who vote, don’t forget. So the rest of us are going to have to put up with something less than normal to protect those who are more at risk. I don’t suppose that’s actually that raw a deal.

I’m 36 a couple of years without the pub and foreign trips feels a bit annoying now but in a few years I’ll look back with pint in hand from some beach and not think much of it. The real problems start if it becomes apparent that a vaccine (or treatments) are fucking ages away. There will be real tensions between the generations of it comes to that. I doubt I’ll feel so reasonable about even this limited level of sacrifice if it’s indefinite.

ITKScouse has it on good authority that the WHO fear a vaccine could still be two to three years away.

It's interesting reading your posts, as I'd been focusing maybe a bit too much on the r0. Just to clarify, in layman's terms, if there was only one person in the country with the virus (let's say they're elderly and live in a care home) and they infected ten other people in the care home, then the r0 would be 10 across the whole country?

If that's the case then it stands to reason that as overall numbers come down, the r0 could easily shoot up and provide a false outlook?

[Shindig]

I still look at daily infections as a better idea of where this is going.

[Giggles]

Some people really shouldn’t be allowed near the internet.


1261783484772708353

[Lee]

ITKScouse has it on good authority that the WHO fear a vaccine could still be two to three years away.

It's interesting reading your posts, as I'd been focusing maybe a bit too much on the r0. Just to clarify, in layman's terms, if there was only one person in the country with the virus (let's say they're elderly and live in a care home) and they infected ten other people in the care home, then the r0 would be 10 across the whole country?

If that's the case then it stands to reason that as overall numbers come down, the r0 could easily shoot up and provide a false outlook?

Well it gives a true outlook. It is only supposed to tell us, on average, how many others an infected person spreads the thing to. As with any metric you shouldn’t focus on any one data point and you should only use it to measure what it’s designed to measure. If we aren’t using it correctly it’s us not using it correctly rather than the metric itself being useless. To illustrate:

100 people in a care home have covid with R of 1
100 people in hospital have covid with R of 1
100 people in the community have covid with R of 0.5
Overall R = 0.83

Reduce the number of cases in the community to 50 but keep the R values the same all round and suddenly your R increases to 0.9. But for most of us that’s good news as the number of community cases is lower and the epidemic, having an R below 1, is shrinking.

What would be helpful is if they gave us the differential R0 between settings. We have it by region now. London is down at 0.4. The Midlands at 0.68. Other areas around 0.75-85. Scotland and Northern Ireland still around 1, perhaps just above.

[Yevrah]

What are the actual numbers in those three categories then?

EDIT: And more importantly, vs. where we were before when the overall was 0.6 to 0.9.

[Lee]

What are the actual numbers in those three categories then?

No idea. They aren’t referred to individually in anything I’ve read. The articles just say ‘it has crept up because the increase in care home/hospital cases as a proportion of total cases’.

Given that the most populated areas in the UK are well below 1, care homes in particular must have a fucking horrible rate. People aren’t dropping like flies in hospitals and almost all hospital deaths are from people who caught it in the community weeks ago. The risk to healthcare workers is about the same as the general population, although that’s because they’re wearing PPE. The poor cunts going to work in care homes.....fuck me.

Anyway, the good news is that we probably aren’t far from the end of the epidemic in the community. The reporting of it has been a disgrace though. Both the BBC and Sky websites went big yesterday with ‘INFECTION RATE INCREASES’ as their main headlines. No context. They knew the context. They quoted it in their fucking stories. They just chose to sensationalise it.

The big scandal from all this, by the way, is going to be that hospitals were allowed to just ship people out to care homes without testing them, at what now seems to have been the peak of the crisis. I led it for my region. We were just told to do it and the truth is we got excited at being able to finally discharge people who didn’t need to be in hospital out, combined with assuming we had to clear out because of what we assumed was going to be a Bergamo/Madrid scenario. Hospitals seeded the care homes epidemic.

[ScousePig]

Well it gives a true outlook. It is only supposed to tell us, on average, how many others an infected person spreads the thing to. As with any metric you shouldn’t focus on any one data point and you should only use it to measure what it’s designed to measure. If we aren’t using it correctly it’s us not using it correctly rather than the metric itself being useless. To illustrate:

100 people in a care home have covid with R of 1
100 people in hospital have covid with R of 1
100 people in the community have covid with R of 0.5
Overall R = 0.83

Reduce the number of cases in the community to 50 but keep the R values the same all round and suddenly your R increases to 0.9. But for most of us that’s good news as the number of community cases is lower and the epidemic, having an R below 1, is shrinking.

What would be helpful is if they gave us the differential R0 between settings. We have it by region now. London is down at 0.4. The Midlands at 0.68. Other areas around 0.75-85. Scotland and Northern Ireland still around 1, perhaps just above.

I think I mean a false outlook for people who don't understand it properly. A differential would be useful, as you say. I think Yorkshire and the north east are the worst as a region.

So as long as numbers of new cases and deaths continue to fall, the r0 rising slightly doesn't necessarily spell bad news, and may even be expected.

[Lewis]

https://i.imgur.com/abDiztu.png

[Lee]

I think I mean a false outlook for people who don't understand it properly. A differential would be useful, as you say. I think Yorkshire and the north east are the worst as a region.

So as long as numbers of new cases and deaths continue to fall, the r0 rising slightly doesn't necessarily spell bad news, and may even be expected.

It could rise quite dramatically and not necessarily be an issue. In Germany it went from 0.7 to 1.3 because of a single cluster of migrant workers living together in dorms. They’ve been isolated and a couple of days later it’s 0.8 again. The smaller the number of cases the more susceptible the R will be to volatility.

Yorkshire and the North East is an interesting case of this, actually. There is a higher rate of infection in areas of Middlesbrough and Sunderland which means the regional number is somewhere around 0.8 (from memory). But there is basically fuck all of it about elsewhere in the region.

[Lee]

https://i.imgur.com/abDiztu.png

I got fuck all in any wills.

[Yevrah]

I'd heard about the care homes without testing thing. Truly horrific.

As for the numbers that make up the R, I agree the journalists are irresponsible, but just fucking provide them when the overall number is released and there's less of an issue. If only the government and the scientific advisors had a daily platform, where they could talk to the nation, at say 5 o' clock and clear all of this up...

[Yevrah]

The smaller the number of cases the more susceptible the R will be to volatility.

This bit is absolutely key. We need the numbers behind the calc.

On face value it seems unlikely that care homes could push the R up significantly, but if there are minimal cases everywhere else it could have a huge difference.

[Lee]

I'd heard about the care homes without testing thing. Truly horrific.

As for the numbers that make up the R, I agree the journalists are irresponsible, but just fucking provide them when the overall number is released and there's less of an issue. If only the government and the scientific advisors had a daily platform, where they could talk to the nation, at say 5 o' clock and clear all of this up...

They did provide it in the release. I love a go at this government but on this occasion what they released was wilfully distorted. The bit about hospitals and care homes was the first caveat provided.


It wasn’t even individual journalists. Beth Righby and Sam Coates definitely tweeted the caveat out with the headline number, as did some BBC journo who I forget. It looks like an editorial decision to attract clicks.

[Yevrah]

They did provide it in the release. I love a go at this government but on this occasion what they released was wilfully distorted. The bit about hospitals and care homes was the first caveat provided.

With actual numbers? It seemed not from your last response to when I asked for the numbers. And if not, it's just more potential fudging.

[Lee]

With actual numbers? It seemed not from your last response to when I asked for the numbers. And if not, it's just more potential fudging.

No just the caveat, as far as I know. Any number will just be a range estimated backwards from deaths, hospitalisations and cross-referenced with the tested positive rate. Which is fair enough as we’re not testing everybody in the country and we can have high confidence that we are a fair bit below 1 given the rate of reduction across a number of measures.

[ScousePig]

It could rise quite dramatically and not necessarily be an issue. In Germany it went from 0.7 to 1.3 because of a single cluster of migrant workers living together in dorms. They’ve been isolated and a couple of days later it’s 0.8 again. The smaller the number of cases the more susceptible the R will be to volatility.

Yorkshire and the North East is an interesting case of this, actually. There is a higher rate of infection in areas of Middlesbrough and Sunderland which means the regional number is somewhere around 0.8 (from memory). But there is basically fuck all of it about elsewhere in the region.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

[Lee]

This bit is absolutely key. We need the numbers behind the calc.

On face value it seems unlikely that care homes could push the R up significantly, but if there are minimal cases everywhere else it could have a huge difference.

On this, I don’t think it does seem that unlikely on face value. For all the talk of people fucking the lockdown off, they’re only going to parks and other relatively safe places. All the high risk places are closed and sick people are staying at home. There also seems to be an emerging belief that asymptomatic transmission is quite low, which makes sense. Van Tam was going on about this a couple of weeks back. If you’re not coughing into somebody’s face, talking at close quarters for hours or licking your hands and wiping it on your mate’s cutlery then how on earth are you spreading it? It’s novel but it’s not fucking alien. It’s a respiratory infection. We broadly know how they spread.

Compare that to a nursing home. Carers with no PPE going from person to person, demented old birds wandering and coughing all over the shop. All in an enclosed space, with lots of residents and shit ventilation. Fuck that. The R must be through the fucking roof.

[Yevrah]

Course, but compare the sheer number of people not in care homes vs. those that are and it's a gigantic difference. Plus all those working in them are presumably going home and spreading it too.

[Lee]

Course, but compare the sheer number of people not in care homes vs. those that are and it's a gigantic difference. Plus all those working in them are presumably going home and spreading it too.

There are loads more people outside care homes but almost all of them don’t have it and those who do aren’t going anywhere to spread it. If you live in a care home and have it you’re much more likely to be spreading it because of the environment you’re in. Presumably care home workers who get it go and stay home and whoever they live with, if they get it (only 15% of people who live with somebody who has it, catch it, so the chances aren’t that high), does the same thing, so they’re not spreading it in any meaningful way.

I think there is a misconception about how contagious this is, or at least has been in the UK. The assessment in this country is that the R was at around 3 (with some regional variation) at peak. The common cold is 2-3, for context. If Lauren gets a cold I don’t, more often than not, and we share a bed. If one person who is symptomatic for a week thinks they have a rough cold and goes about their business as normal is only giving it to three people.....

It’s obviously contagious enough for exponential growth but how many normal interactions of all kinds, and with how many, are you having in a week? Quite a lot, I’d wager. Almost certainly a lot more than three. And that’s at the peak (in this country - other countries have different estimates) with no interventions. You start washing your hands more, staying in if you develop any symptoms and that will reduce things quite a lot.

If your care home worker is only going home and then isolating when ill and the people they live with do the same then the thing isn’t going anywhere else and the epidemic shrinks. People who live in care homes don’t have that luxury. It keeps spreading until it runs out of hosts. Older people have weaker immune systems so the R is likely a lot higher than outside because it will spread more easily.

[Yevrah]

All good points. I'd just like to see the numbers and the split within.

But if it isn't actually that contagious, or as contagious as it's perceived to be (I'm just as guilty for believing that as anyone), and it's only really a danger to those who are old or have underlying health conditions, why on earth am I still not allowed to go round to my Sister's to see her and her young family, and why on earth did a load of countries lock down far harder than us?

[Lee]

All good points. I'd just like to see the numbers and the split within.

But if it isn't actually that contagious, or as contagious as it's perceived to be (I'm just as guilty for believing that as anyone), and it's only really a danger to those who are old or have underlying health conditions, why on earth am I still not allowed to go round to my Sister's to see her and her young family, and why on earth did a load of countries lock down far harder than us?

Because contagious is contagious. As long as the R is above 1 it will grow. That it isn’t measles (R of ~12) matters less han the consequences of getting it. One person giving it to three others in a highly interactive society will lead to rapid exponential growth of a disease which results in higher hospitalisation (and critical care) rates and longer hospital stays than other things we deal with more regularly. This in a system which already has less capacity than the demand it faces. Hospitals get full, resources stretched, people don’t get the care they need. Not just for covid but for all sorts of other things.

You probably could go and see your sister quite safely if you’ve both been following the rules but from a policy point of view, while we drive numbers down, its sensible to make the rules blanket ones. If they’re otherwise it’s easier for people to find reasons why they’re also an exception. As this progresses we’ll probably end up with vulnerable groups still shielded and periodic lockdowns of different localities. Anyway...

Contagiousness will vary from country to country, from living environment to living environment, which is why different places find different reproductive values. If the first person ever to have got this lived alone, felt like shit and didn’t go anywhere until they were better then there’s no reproduction. If they went to bars every night and stood inches from lots of different people, shouting to be heard over music, for prolonged periods then you have a very different picture. It’s still the same virus. Obviously reality is in between those examples and there are lots of different degrees of in between.

In terms of policy decisions, who knows? You’ve lots of different governments with different levels of preparedness and healthcare capacity trying to make sense of advice based on incomplete evidence about the behaviour of a new virus. But nobody in Europe is that out of step with the general response. There is a range between Sweden and Italy/Spain/France but it isn’t that broad. Swedes aren’t all out partying and visiting grandma and the Italians aren’t being fed on army delivered rations. All have deployed social distancing advice and told people not to meet in crowds or in confined spaces where it will spread most easily. All have made a mess of care homes. You get differences because, to employ the cliché; advisors advise and ministers decide. You have lots of different governments so you’ll get lots of different decisions. It’s quite telling that the decisions haven’t been all that different, though.

Agree on the number/split, by the way. It should be shared. I suspect the reason it isn’t being (or if it is it isn’t being pushed) is that they don’t want us all rushing out at once and banging on the pub doors.

[Yevrah]

Your response doesn't really answer the question as to why we're still in lockdown to the degree that we are or perhaps more interestingly offer your opinion as to whether we should be. It just sort of states the obvious.

Not trying to be difficult, confrontational or a cunt, just want to understand from someone who has something of an inside track on these things.

[Yevrah]

Oh and 24 update for Kik's. up to season 5's mid point now.

Season 1: Still a classic
Season 2: Pretty good up to a certain point and then falls off hugely after one of the best episodes they ever did.
Season 3: Not bad, but a bit clunkier than I remember. Probably includes the single stand out moment of the whole show.
Season 4: An absolute mess. I remember it signifying a drop in quality, but watching it again it's just outright poor. A load of crappy plots tied together, none of which really work. What was done well though was the last half an hour of it, which was brilliant.

I'll comment on 5 when I've finished it.

[Lee]

Your response doesn't really answer the question as to why we're still in lockdown to the degree that we are or perhaps more interestingly offer your opinion as to whether we should be. It just sort of states the obvious.

Not trying to be difficult, confrontational or a cunt, just want to understand from someone who has something of an inside track on these things.

I don’t have any inside track, I’m not in the government and I have no more access to the information they release than you do. I don’t know what answer you expect I’d have that wasn’t the obvious. The governments of most countries are doing the obvious. I’d add though that the obvious is only the obvious because we know what we know from the (albeit limited) evidence to hand. There is no common sense hive mind.

My opinion is that we need to stay as locked down as we are now until the number of new cases is low enough for us to track, trace and isolate cases before they become a new epidemic. Then you open up. I don’t know how long that will take, or what the magic number of cases is because nobody is telling us that or, just as importantly, what our track and trace resource (and plan) is. I don’t know how far you open up either. You could probably do so fully for the healthy under 60s but I don’t know if that’s enforceable and the government sure as shit isn’t about to go and upset its core vote by making that decision.

Even those things are from where we are now though. We have fucked it up as a nation and the world has fucked up collectively. The notion of a dangerous pandemic is hardly fucking new. There should have been international cooperation in place, a plan in place to protect supply chains for essential goods so that borders could have been closed and people told to stay the fuck in for governments to provide essentials to people. We’d have endure a shit time but it would have been relatively short. The thing can’t survive without hosts. I’m sure that’s probably too idealistic and there are a million reasons why it’s really hard but, again, the threat of a global pandemic wasn’t a secret. They happen every 20-30 years. And every time they do the world just sighs with relief that it wasn’t THE BIG ONE.

Failing that, as a nation the same principle stands. It’s alright blaming the Chinese for lying (and they’ve been cunts and need dealing with) and the WHO for being incompetent (also true) but do we not have people on the ground in these fucking places/organisations? We know we do and we know Trump was getting intelligence reports early in the new year saying this could be bad. Our own fucking boffins were talking about the threat as early as January. We knew it was coming. It’s impossible for me to believe otherwise. We should have stopped flights from China and, if necessary, countries from which we receive large volumes of people and which didn’t do the same themselves.

It would have been tough politically because people tend not to believe something is a problem until granny is dying of it, but the job of governments is to know best and to lead in matters of safety and security. It’s their primary function. I’m sure I’d have pissed and moaned for a bit about not being able to go on holiday or whatever but I can’t do that now and there are tens of thousands dead.

[hfswjyr]

Oh and 24 update for Kik's. up to season 5's mid point now.

Season 1: Still a classic
Season 2: Pretty good up to a certain point and then falls off hugely after one of the best episodes they ever did.
Season 3: Not bad, but a bit clunkier than I remember. Probably includes the single stand out moment of the whole show.
Season 4: An absolute mess. I remember it signifying a drop in quality, but watching it again it's just outright poor. A load of crappy plots tied together, none of which really work. What was done well though was the last half an hour of it, which was brilliant.

I'll comment on 5 when I've finished it.

Are you referring to that Mason episode as one of those best moments? That, and someone losing an arm were the outstanding moments for me.
From about season 3 onwards it was like the writers wrote episodes one at a time. There wasn't a coherent plot for the most part.

[Magic]

People still believing that each death announcement is people actually dying that day. :D

[Shindig]

I mean, DHSC report it as such. I know there's a reporting lag but people will take that on face value. Anyway, I too would like more regional data. It's why I like that Covid live UK map that's about. You can kind of surmise where the bother is from that.

From what I've looked at, Durham itself is clean. The big student population probably helps. As does the Asian community which takes this shit very seriously. Our big employers are the Home Office, DWP and National Savings & Investments. All of which will be getting orders (not advisories) from the government to socially distance or work from home. As for the rest of the County, it's geographically strung out with Middlesbrough probably making up the numbers.

I might start punching some care home addresses into it and seeing what numbers come back.

[Magic]

I mean, DHSC report it as such.

I know, and it's absolutely on purpose. What's the agenda here? Never understood that if they want the economy back why aren't they falling over themselves to say otherwise? Hark back to the days of Italy and the pictures/videos of Lombardy's hospitals, people turning around like turkeys on a spit, etc. Yet here we've not seen a single thing. Doctors etc being sent home early as they have fuck all to do. Empty hospitals. What's the hidden picture here? Is it really just to cover up the massive care home shame?

[Shindig]

Thing is, the actual dates of death do get circulated to the press. The BBC would occasionally report it in their write-ups. (X happened last week or before May X, etc). For ease of quickness, the DHSC put these out in their simplest terms. The ONS collate the actual data and report it weeks later. Because it takes forever, probably.

[Shindig]

Alright, here we go. Coronavirus deaths in care home postcodes in Sunderland. Data from 1st March up until April 17th. All deaths in brackets.

Ashlea Lodge / Bluebird Care - 5 (11)
Barnes Court / The Croft / Holly Cross - 5 (25) - That explains the high deaths for all causes, then.
Cedar House / Montpellier Terrace / Ashbourne Lodge / Swanton Care / Brentwood / Ashdale - 10 (25)
Strawberry Court - 5 (13)
Carisbrooke Care - 1 (9)
Glenholme House - 1 (23)

I think I'll give up. A lot of these fall within the same areas hence why they're a bit skewed. Maybe not as precise as I'd hoped. Boro, then.

The Willows - 1 (9)
Evergreen Court - 3 (14)
Oaklea - 3 (20)
The Gables - 7 (15)
Elizabeth House - 4 (14)
Primrose Court - 7 (19)
Parkville Care Centre - 2 (9)
Delamere Lodge - 2 (12)
Stainton Way - 8 (26)
Anchor - 4 (18)

These death statistics relate to the postcodes (I guess local council diocese) these care homes are in and may not reflect deaths within their residential care. Keep in mind some care homes may also be in the vicinity. These are by no means a full picture and you should not burn down your nearest care home or remove your elderly relatives from the care they need :dc:

[Kikó]

Oh and 24 update for Kik's. up to season 5's mid point now.

Season 1: Still a classic
Season 2: Pretty good up to a certain point and then falls off hugely after one of the best episodes they ever did.
Season 3: Not bad, but a bit clunkier than I remember. Probably includes the single stand out moment of the whole show.
Season 4: An absolute mess. I remember it signifying a drop in quality, but watching it again it's just outright poor. A load of crappy plots tied together, none of which really work. What was done well though was the last half an hour of it, which was brilliant.

I'll comment on 5 when I've finished it.

Superb. Mason and Chapelle dying were both big. I did like how cool James Heller was though.

[Don]

Lockdown fully ended yesterday with a day of football, booze, banter and bags and boy did it feel good.

[Alex]

Oh and 24 update for Kik's. up to season 5's mid point now.

Season 1: Still a classic
Season 2: Pretty good up to a certain point and then falls off hugely after one of the best episodes they ever did.
Season 3: Not bad, but a bit clunkier than I remember. Probably includes the single stand out moment of the whole show.
Season 4: An absolute mess. I remember it signifying a drop in quality, but watching it again it's just outright poor. A load of crappy plots tied together, none of which really work. What was done well though was the last half an hour of it, which was brilliant.

I'll comment on 5 when I've finished it.

I can't remember much about season four (I watched them all as they originally aired and haven't re-watched them since, so it's obviously all a bit of a blur to me now) but I do remember actually getting out of my seat and shouting at the television in excitement at the bit where Tony turns up from nowhere and rescues Jack and Audrey from a warehouse full of terrorist goons, or something. :cool:

I basically used to love anything involving Tony Almeida on 24. I don't know why, he was just my favourite character by a mile.

Has Jack reached peak torturing yet? It felt like he was torturing somebody about three times an episode towards the middle of the shows overall run. After reading a quick recap I think season five was one of the better seasons, from memory.

[Boydy]

Who are all these wallies complaining to Ofcom that Piers Morgan was mean to a government minister?

[Manc]

He needs a reality check. Sack the cunt.

[Waffdon]

I don’t actually mind him, even if he does it for attention. Still asks the right questions and calls them out for their incompetence and lies.

[Giggles]

I don’t actually mind him, even if he does it for attention. Still asks the right questions and calls them out for their incompetence and lies.

But nobody likes anyone calling out their political team. Everyone in England treats politics like they’re a Liverpool supporter.

[Waffdon]

Brexit fucked everything.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Who are all these wallies complaining to Ofcom that Piers Morgan was mean to a government minister?

He asked/baited them to do so, didn't he?

Every time anyone gives him attention (including me in this post) another nail is hammered into the coffin of civilisation.

[Shindig]

I still find it odd his career went from "Whoops, my actions as editor might've obstructed a murder case" to "Hi, I'm Larry King ...'s replacement." in the space of months.

[Queenslander]

Only 6 people have died in Queensland.

https://i.ibb.co/tB5cxQt/FB-IMG-1589766899162.jpg (https://ibb.co/Px849Fn)

We need to put a wall around Victoria. The plastic Solicialists have closed 12 McDonalds because of outbreaks.

NSW can cry me a fucking river after their massive whinge about our border closure with them extending untill September. Double bonus is we continue to piss off the anti vax mongrels just south of the tweed.

The People's Republic of Queensland is tracking well and could form a new country with New Zealand and the Northern Territory. Hard border with everyone else including visa and tracking collars.

Infact we could offer Arnhem Land to PM Ardern as tribute.

[niko_cee]

If I have a house in Port Douglas can I become an honorary citizen?

[Queenslander]

If I have a house in Port Douglas can I become an honorary citizen?

You're English just asking grants you citizenship. Ill be shipping most new arrivals to NQ anywayl just to dilute whatever it is that makes them the way they are...

[Giggles]

Is Queensland where all our bottom feeders are? I know very little Australian geography.

[Queenslander]

Is Queensland where all our bottom feeders are? I know very little Australian geography.

Queensland is massive. Brisbane is where the majority of the population is and it is a pretty run of the mill place easy livin but not a tourist destination. The Gold Coast is absolute trash as soon as you step back from the beach. North Queensland is where we keep our brightest and sharpest racist mentallists. Outback QLD is ok in parts and pretty bloody weird in other parts. All love hating lefties, Asians, Muslims etc despite probably.never meeting one.

Inner City Brisbane is a really nice place to live. Also South East Queensland is very very multicultral which does surprise people I have spoken to over the years. Brisbane does get hit with a lazy jab about being racist but it really isnt at all.

[niko_cee]

Far North Queensland is god's country, although, admittedly, the locals are a bit mental.

But that can be blamed on them mostly being Victorians, I think.

You can keep all the internment camps around the Townsville region. Or Rockhampton. Or anywhere in that 1000 or so miles between Cairns and civilisation.

[Giggles]

Those days of nice traffic will be missed.

[Shindig]

I should've saved myself the bother of the care home deaths. BBC reported the numbers on the 5th. 120 care home deaths in County Durham (out of 313 in total). The highest in the North East although that probably covers some of Teesside. Of Tyne and Wear's 721 deaths, 54 were in Sunderland, 47 in Gateshead, 46 in Northumberland.

[Queenslander]

Far North Queensland is god's country, although, admittedly, the locals are a bit mental.

But that can be blamed on them mostly being Victorians, I think.

You can keep all the internment camps around the Townsville region. Or Rockhampton. Or anywhere in that 1000 or so miles between Cairns and civilisation.

The idea of rounding up Victorians and putting them in internment camps... :drool:
I do think most of them move to the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast I couldnt imagine too manyof them being suited to NQ summer and there non existen winter.

[Don]

To add to Yevrah's list of e-victories over the scientific community:


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52111606#

60% of infected report it echo-ing the 66% reported in Germany and similar numbers in Iran and South Korea.

I understand why UK refuse to make it an official symptom as they don't want every fucker with a blocked nose to burden them and given we're in effective lockdown, it would presumably do little at this stage bit surely at least WHO need to step in and warn the likes of US, India, etc. Jesus, you'd think medical practitioners would be the sort of sector of human society to at least be trusted to be competent but nah.

Post above was 1st April.

https://i.imgflip.com/38dyxn.png

Coming up to 9 weeks now for me so won't bother getting tested.

[Spikey M]

They're so fucking slow to every punch.

[Kikó]

It's almost as if science needs to prove something before they declare it as official guidance. Lazy fuckers.

[Spikey M]

It's almost as if science needs to prove something before they declare it as official guidance. Lazy fuckers.

Scientists are meant to be an international community. It's clearly been proven to a standard sufficient for several other countries. Is the concern that we have our own unique set of symptoms?

[Yevrah]

Basically Taz, the rules when it comes to science are as follows:

Science is allowed as long as it likes to come to a decision, irrespective of what's actually happening in the real world during that time.
Science can never be wrong in that decision, just different.
Science's decision is not final, it's only guidance. Ultimately government makes the decisions.
If that decision is wro...sorry, different then that's on the government. If it's right, that's why science is brilliant.

[Yevrah]

Scientists are meant to be an international community. It's clearly been proven to a standard sufficient for several other countries. Is the concern that we have our own unique set of symptoms?

We have awful scientific advisors. I don't know what more needs to happen for them to stop being given an almost completely free pass.

[Magic]

Basically Taz, the rules when it comes to science are as follows:

Science is allowed as long as it likes to come to a decision, irrespective of what's actually happening in the real world during that time.
Science can never be wrong in that decision, just different.
Science's decision is not final, it's only guidance. Ultimately government makes the decisions.
If that decision is wro...sorry, different then that's on the government. If it's right, that's why science is brilliant.

In between all that however the MSM chooses to portray it, is exactly what the majority of the population believes to be absolute truth.

[Yevrah]

In between all that however the MSM chooses to portray it, is exactly what the majority of the population believes to be absolute truth.

Want another run at that?

Basically, there are shit people in jobs and professions up and down the land, the world over. Quite how this automatically stops being a truism when it comes to scientific advisors is absolutely beyond me.

[Yevrah]

Ours are so bad they made Diane Abbott look 100% correct.

1251911724032299019

[Yevrah]

And that's before we get to sending infected people back into care homes without even testing them.

I mean, you couldn't make it up.

[Magic]

Want another run at that?

Basically, there are shit people in jobs and professions up and down the land, the world over. Quite how this automatically stops being a truism when it comes to scientific advisors is absolutely beyond me.

Maybe it's because it's constantly evolving. Unlike law, or commercial, or land or some other shit you can specialise in it's not a human construct.

[Yevrah]

Maybe it's because it's constantly evolving. Unlike law, or commercial, or land or some other shit you can specialise in it's not a human construct.

This is a defence I often hear, but loads of things constantly evolve, be they human constructs or not. Even if they don't, and this is a unique problem for science, it's not as if they've just worked that out. They shouldn't need to be reminded that waiting until something has been proven beyond doubt (before advising for or against it) isn't that helpful in a pandemic.

[Magic]

This is a defence I often hear, but loads of things constantly evolve, be they human constructs or not. Even if they don't, and this is a unique problem for science, it's not as if they've just worked that out. They shouldn't need to be reminded that waiting until something has been proven beyond doubt (before advising for or against it) isn't that helpful in a pandemic.

What is helpful in a pandemic?

[Yevrah]

What is helpful in a pandemic?

Making decisions on balance with what information we do have available and updating those as we go. Taking months to add a symptom to the official list, that everyone was already aware of weeks ago, is useless. Utterly useless.

[Magic]

Making decisions on balance with what information we do have available and updating those as we go. Taking months to add a symptom to the official list, that everyone was already aware of weeks ago, is useless. Utterly useless.

But the vast majority don't pay attention. Remember everyone believing if you can't hold your breath for 10 seconds you've got Covid because of some shite on Facebook? Frequently changing what is and what isn't is also utterly useless, as nobody will pay attention anyway.

[Kikó]

Basically Taz, the rules when it comes to science are as follows:

Science is allowed as long as it likes to come to a decision, irrespective of what's actually happening in the real world during that time.
Science can never be wrong in that decision, just different.
Science's decision is not final, it's only guidance. Ultimately government makes the decisions.
If that decision is wro...sorry, different then that's on the government. If it's right, that's why science is brilliant.

This is batshit.

Why even have science if we can just go with Yevrage gut feel?

[Yevrah]

But the vast majority don't pay attention. Remember everyone believing if you can't hold your breath for 10 seconds you've got Covid because of some shite on Facebook? Frequently changing what is and what isn't is also utterly useless, as nobody will pay attention anyway.

People not paying attention is a different issue and can be filed in the bin along with "face masks don't work because people put their hands under them".

And I didn't say anything about frequently changing.

[Yevrah]

This is batshit.

Why even have science if we can just go with Yevrage gut feel?

Science is wonderful, we should absolutely have it. What we shouldn't have is it being subjected to no scrutiny whatsoever.

Just because I criticise our scientic advisors doesn't mean I'm a flat earther, creationist or climate change denier. People need to come to terms with separating the critical and the ignorance. It shouldn't be hard, but seemingly they're too far invested in the argument (against the idiots who believe those things I've mentioned) to do so.

[Magic]

"wHy DoN't YoU tElL uS aBoUt ThOsE tHiNgS tHaT yOu DoN't KnOw AbOuT yEt!"

[Yevrah]

And your response to both mine and Taz/Spikey's post just sums up what I'm saying Kik's.

Science is the new religion and god forbid anyone that criticises it.

[Kikó]

Science is wonderful, we should absolutely have it. What we shouldn't have is it being subjected to no scrutiny whatsoever.

Just because I criticise our scientic advisors doesn't mean I'm a flat earther, creationist or climate change denier. People need to come to terms with separating the critical and the ignorance. It shouldn't be hard, but seemingly they're too far invested in the argument (against the idiots who believe those things I've mentioned) to do so.

I think there's a different argument to be had on the effectiveness of the scientific advisors and whether or not they have been able to be frank (like the lady quoted above). That should be investigated post the event. My humble opinion is the process has been politicised which has led to less than useful pressers.

[Boydy]

Science is a human construct.

[Yevrah]

"wHy DoN't YoU tElL uS aBoUt ThOsE tHiNgS tHaT yOu DoN't KnOw AbOuT yEt!"

Can't really do much with this, so guess my work here is done. For now.

[Magic]

And your response to both mine and Taz/Spikey's post just sums up what I'm saying Kik's.

Science is the new religion and god forbid anyone that criticises it.

Except it isn't made up...but your argument suggests you'd prefer it to be? :happycry:

[Jimmy Floyd]

If science is the new religion, does this mean Yevrah is the second coming of Jesus Christ himself?

[Yevrah]

I think there's a different argument to be had on the effectiveness of the scientific advisors and whether or not they have been able to be frank (like the lady quoted above). That should be investigated post the event. My humble opinion is the process has been politicised which has led to less than useful pressers.

You're politicising it by assuming she wasn't able to speak freely. "Must have been those evil tories that put her up to it". Why can't she just be incompetent? A lot of people are.

And you saw Vallance frothing at the gash to get herd immunity going two weeks before we locked down. It would have been the most stereotypical Tory thing ever to keep the economy going and let all the pov's die. We didn't do that as a direct result of the government intervening and stopping the mad plan. Yet somehow, weeks on, all that's forgotten and it's evil tories and poor scientists again.

[Yevrah]

Except it isn't made up...but your argument suggests you'd prefer it to be? :happycry:

I mean more in terms of the cult type reaction towards it that's definitely developing, than it being made up.

There's quite a patronising stench given off by people who advocate science (I mean, well done, what else are you going to advocate? Idiocy?) and that they're somehow very smart by doing so (nope, you're just not a moron).

The government have played into this from day 1 with their "following the science" line that they've been at pains to repeat time and time again, because they too have read the mood on this one and know it gives them a bit of a free pass.

Well done to all of you that have either fallen for, or helped create that one.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They got intervened on by Deadly Dom Cummings if the journal of record is to be believed. Funnily enough I saw him up in a biplane yesterday, goggles and all, firing pellets of COVID towards Labour-voting areas.

[Yevrah]

They got intervened on by Deadly Dom Cummings if the journal of record is to be believed. Funnily enough I saw him up in a biplane yesterday, goggles and all, firing pellets of COVID towards Labour-voting areas.

Indeed, but he's still a Tory (not that I think he cares about anything other than WINNING), and the worst one according to some going into this.

[Kikó]

You're politicising it by assuming she wasn't able to speak freely. "Must have been those evil tories that put her up to it". Why can't she just be incompetent? A lot of people are.

And you saw Vallance frothing at the gash to get herd immunity going two weeks before we locked down. It would have been the most stereotypical Tory thing ever to keep the economy going and let all the pov's die. We didn't do that as a direct result of the government intervening and stopping the mad plan. Yet somehow, weeks on, all that's forgotten and it's evil tories and poor scientists again.

Well my first sentence was we should have an inquiry before offering my opinion. I know I'm politicising my own opinion.

[Waffdon]

Finally a Labour surge in the polls. God bless Sir Keir

[ScousePig]

If science is the new religion, does this mean Yevrah is the second coming of Jesus Christ himself?

Does that make Magic a Pharisee?

[Don]

I kneel before the mandingo of science as I've done before in here but the delay in listing anosmia is negligence on their part. What Yev said basically.

Also, this is probably the most coherent media spokesman to date...

https://youtu.be/eB1eqvAxQAQ

The article is in the top comment.

Get the fucking pubs open, you cunts.

[Spikey M]

I am generally speaking about as pro-science as it's possible to be and I'm all on board with 'following the science'. My issue here, is that our Scientists are seemingly determined to turn their noses up at what 90% of the world's scientists are advising.

'Decades old research shows that masks help to stop the spread of airborne viruses'

'..... MOAR ReSeArCh On ThAt PlEAZ'.

If the research has been done and steps put in place by other countries in line with it, then put the fucking steps in place here. By all means research it yourselves to see if you can verify the results, but don't leave the country bumble fucking around without masks and without accepting well documented symptoms whilst you do so.

What causes more harm; listing 'loss of sense of smell' as a potential symptom when it might not be one, or not listing it as a possible symptom when it is one?

[Manc]

I kneel before the mandingo of science as I've done before in here but the delay in listing anosmia is negligence on their part. What Yev said basically.

Also, this is probably the most coherent media spokesman to date...

https://youtu.be/eB1eqvAxQAQ

The article is in the top comment.

Get the fucking pubs open, you cunts.

If you replace theatre with the word brothel it makes much more sense.

[Don]

Just to bring some calm and measured thought to prior post. I think there's very valid arguments against Lord Sumption's stance and serious flaws in all options open to us, hence the minefield we find ourselves in.

But yeah, I need to see my Eastern Europeans ffs.

[Baz]

Hang on. There’s been far too much talk about science here. Don’t you mean the science.

[John Arne]

Deaths per 1m Population

https://gyazo.com/76dc0c5134fbf0fe8249a92e59500f3d.jpeg

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Our electrician and his wife have tested positive.

He hasn't been to ours in a while which is good but there are still some things that he needed to do downstairs which means we might need to hire someone else.

[Magic]

Our electrician and his wife have tested positive.

He hasn't been to ours in a while which is good but there are still some things that he needed to do downstairs which means we might need to hire someone else.

Lol most boring post award winner.

[Lewis]

Well, if anyone can get their downstairs sorted without meeting them first.

[mugbull]

Lol most boring post award winner.

Hardly

I wonder how u communicate with friends

[Waffdon]

Probably the same reason he got decked outside the Kebab shop.

Was that outside Khan’s btw, Magic?

[Shindig]

Lowest new cases since the end of March. Good.

[Giggles]

Opening up the hardware shops went well. People are fucking imbeciles.

[Magic]

Probably the same reason he got decked outside the Kebab shop.

Was that outside Khan’s btw, Magic?

Yes.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Twitter going mental about Jonathan Van Tam saying that they brought some regulation in on the 30th February sums twitter up. Obviously he means 1 March, just move on.

[Shindig]

No, everyone needs to get the same joke in whilst somehow ignoring the person before them has made it.

[Boydy]

Opening up the hardware shops went well. People are fucking imbeciles.

There were huge queues of traffic this morning in Belfast at recycling centres/dumps. Read some guy in the Belfast Telegraph saying he waited for two hours. Yeah, whatever shit you had in your garage to throw out absolutely had to be done today, ffs.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

There were huge queues of traffic this morning in Belfast at recycling centres/dumps. Read some guy in the Belfast Telegraph saying he waited for two hours. Yeah, whatever shit you had in your garage to throw out absolutely had to be done today, ffs.

The dumps round here are all 2 hours+ waiting time too. It's fucking stupid.

[Disco]

Just put a bit in your normal bin every week like the rest of us.

[Spikey M]

Or dump stuff in the canals with Baz's trolleys.

[Giggles]

There were huge queues of traffic this morning in Belfast at recycling centres/dumps. Read some guy in the Belfast Telegraph saying he waited for two hours. Yeah, whatever shit you had in your garage to throw out absolutely had to be done today, ffs.

Seen a video of what must have been over a hundred outside B&Q in Liffey Valley this morning before opening. Woodies in Blanchardstown had to open over an hour earlier because people were getting rowdy. I’d say you could count the amount that needed something essential on one hand.

[Alex]

There were huge queues of traffic this morning in Belfast at recycling centres/dumps. Read some guy in the Belfast Telegraph saying he waited for two hours. Yeah, whatever shit you had in your garage to throw out absolutely had to be done today, ffs.

I can almost understand the idea of getting in the car and thinking "I'll go have a look". I mean, I wouldn't do it myself. Not on the first day it's opened, and not for several weeks after. But fair enough if you've really nothing else to do and you want to go and chance your arm. What I can't understand is seeing the number of people in the queue and joining it.

People were queuing out of a retail park, across a roundabout and down a dual carriageway for a fucking drive-through Costa that reopened near where I work a couple of weeks ago. In what world do you get in your car, see that and think "yes, I think I will join this queue of tailback traffic on a dual carriageway so somebody can eventually hand me a latte through a window"? There's something wrong with people like that.

[Don]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/18/lockdown-sceptics-coronavirus-brexit?

Timely

[Jimmy Floyd]

Lol, as if they're accusing the other side of being the ones waging the culture war.

[Lewis]

There are few things in life I hate more than queuing, and the thought of having to time my supermarket visits to avoid them annoys me far more than not being able to eat out ever again.

[Shindig]

I can almost understand the idea of getting in the car and thinking "I'll go have a look". I mean, I wouldn't do it myself. Not on the first day it's opened, and not for several weeks after. But fair enough if you've really nothing else to do and you want to go and chance your arm. What I can't understand is seeing the number of people in the queue and joining it.

People were queuing out of a retail park, across a roundabout and down a dual carriageway for a fucking drive-through Costa that reopened near where I work a couple of weeks ago. In what world do you get in your car, see that and think "yes, I think I will join this queue of tailback traffic on a dual carriageway so somebody can eventually hand me a latte through a window"? There's something wrong with people like that.

Yep. They see somewhere has opened, knowing full well there will be other plebs like them queuing. And they still go. And they still complain about how this has ruined their day of nothing.