View Full Version : Coronavirus Death Thread
https://twitter.com/TIME/status/1240889102804889600?s=20
London's gonna need to go lockdown going off reports from today.
niko_cee
21-03-2020, 06:53 PM
Do we still have that fishing emoticon?
Yevrah
21-03-2020, 06:54 PM
https://twitter.com/TIME/status/1240889102804889600?s=20
London's gonna need to go lockdown going off reports from today.
What have you heard? A load of pubs still open?
Disco
21-03-2020, 06:54 PM
Giggles now his own bespoke cell in Yevs DeathSheet.
Park was packed earlier. Read elsewhere, some places shops all open and pubs doing lock ins. We're going to be suffering for a long long time.
Giggles
21-03-2020, 06:56 PM
And also, take the piss when it's funny (and his retort was quite good), but as for the original post. What's the point?
What’s the point in most of it?
You can die if you’re 50, you can’t die if you’re 50, you can’t die if you’re healthy, you can die if you’re healthy, virus can’t live on surfaces, virus lives on surfaces for 48 hours, virus lives on surfaces for 24 hours, virus lives on surfaces for 2 hours, no vaccine coming for 18 months, vaccine here next week, malaria drugs cure it, vaccine here in a month, China back to normal, everyone is dead in China, etc etc.
Now's not the time for an existential crisis.
niko_cee
21-03-2020, 06:59 PM
Shit, where did you hear that?
The reporting sounds shit. A 41 year old died of this and was included today. But turns out she died six days ago and was off that Diamond Princess cruise ship. ‘Multiple underlying conditions’ makes it sound as though she was about to drop anyway.
Magic
21-03-2020, 07:07 PM
Yeah all the shops that were open were packed. Loads of people out walking, loads of old cunts too. Thick.
Yevrah
21-03-2020, 07:14 PM
The reporting sounds shit. A 41 year old died of this and was included today. But turns out she died six days ago and was off that Diamond Princess cruise ship. ‘Multiple underlying conditions’ makes it sound as though she was about to drop anyway.
That is weird. Guess we'll have to get used to it as it ramps up.
Giggles
21-03-2020, 07:20 PM
Up 102 today. 10,000 tests completed apparently.
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1241439344679845890
Jimmy Floyd
21-03-2020, 07:21 PM
Park was packed earlier. Read elsewhere, some places shops all open and pubs doing lock ins. We're going to be suffering for a long long time.
In my social groups (which contain people far more intelligent than the average, or at least I thought so) there's a real aggressive refusal to accept reality. It's quite strange and I don't like it at all.
The number of health workers getting it, whilst expected, is fucking horrible.
Shindig
21-03-2020, 07:36 PM
The healthcare workers percentage is pretty stark. Them catching it seems pretty inevitable and it's not like they'll have staff on rotation.
Bernanke
21-03-2020, 07:40 PM
https://i.imgur.com/KhvnxGT.png
Actual Italian age brackets.
Yevrah
21-03-2020, 07:41 PM
They're going be getting industrial level doses of it as well.
randomlegend
21-03-2020, 07:42 PM
I've basically accepted I'm getting it at some point.
randomlegend
21-03-2020, 07:42 PM
They're going be getting industrial level doses of it as well.
Yes, apparently because of the extended contact they get a higher viral load which can make them more unwell with it. Yay.
niko_cee
21-03-2020, 07:43 PM
So we sent a bunch of tests off to the UK between the 11th and 14th of March, but the lab that was meant to do them shipped them off somewhere else and they remain within 500 cases from around the UK for those dates as yet unresolved. Mental.
Then we tested a bunch more returnees in the last few days and 15 of them have it. Yikes. Still clinging onto the hope of no community transmission at the moment.
It’s having an interesting impact on the hospitals I work in. Both have seen really sharp reductions in ED attendances over the last week and a bit. We’ve got wards set up specifically for this (suspected as well as confirmed cases) and they still have loads of empty beds. ICU looking pretty good, too. Unusually so, actually.
I know it’s going to come, but having empty beds to start with helps.
Lewis
21-03-2020, 07:46 PM
Is that because daft cunts have stopped turning up with headaches and cut fingers?
They’d not be in beds but it would explain the lack of people turning up in the first place.
London is in such deep shit. 13% of the population live there. 39% of confirmed cases are there.
A few things I’ve read today have had me thinking about cancelling going to Cornwall in May. My thinking had been that we could go, get our own food and drink in if necessary, and just drive out to places where no bugger is. But what I hadn’t considered is that a load of second home owners will be heading to the coasts, taking the virus with them and completely fucking a place with sod all in terms of hospitals geared up for this kind of thing.
Yevrah
21-03-2020, 08:04 PM
I bet there's loads society could do better when we get out of the other side of this. I doubt we will, but there'll become more and more apparent as we go through.
As soon as things return to anything resembling normal people will be in the pubs, going to football matches and booking flights. And we’ll probably be lucky enough that we’ll get away with it. We’re lucky this isn’t that deadly, although obviously it’s quite deadly enough. Thank fuck it isn’t something with as mental a mortality rate as ebola.
Lewis
21-03-2020, 08:08 PM
1. Stop pretending that Chinese food isn't shit
2. Apologise to Morrissey
3. Not get mawkish about the whole ordeal
4. Ceremoniously burn every bit of 'Keep Calm' tat in the country
5. Never trade with China again
Jimmy Floyd
21-03-2020, 08:11 PM
There has been a notable lack of mawkishness so far, at least from my perspective. Probably because it's affecting everyone in the world, so no one feels able to claim special pity.
I know you jest but the China stuff pisses me off. I’d normally be first in the queue calling Trump a racist cunt for his ‘Chinese Virus’ stuff, and I get that it isn’t the fault of your average Chinese lad and that it’s a bit childish. But we also wouldn’t be in this position if they hadn’t been dirty cunts in their shithole markets.
They can live how they like but it doesn’t mean those of us who don’t appreciate shagging decapitated bats should bend over and accept the consequences. Next time there’s even a fucking hint of something cracking off there, they don’t get to travel here.
Yevrah
21-03-2020, 08:12 PM
There has been a notable lack of mawkishness so far, at least from my perspective. Probably because it's affecting everyone in the world, so no one feels able to claim special pity.
It could also be because the morons haven't got on board yet.
https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1241452163391467520?s=21
This is good, by the way. If the Koreans and Americans have managed it we can’t be far off.
Jimmy Floyd
21-03-2020, 08:14 PM
If you read about any historical pandemic it always starts in China. They don't give a fuck in the Chinese interior.
Giggles
21-03-2020, 08:16 PM
It could also be because the morons haven't got on board yet.
Wait til the C listers and ‘influencers’ start polluting your life about it #createdontcomtaminate
Cunts.
Shindig
21-03-2020, 08:16 PM
Yep. They spent six weeks ignoring it and now look at us.
Yevrah
21-03-2020, 08:18 PM
I know you jest but the China stuff pisses me off. I’d normally be first in the queue calling Trump a racist cunt for his ‘Chinese Virus’ stuff, and I get that it isn’t the fault of your average Chinese lad and that it’s a bit childish. But we also wouldn’t be in this position if they hadn’t been dirty cunts in their shithole markets.
They can live how they like but it doesn’t mean those of us who don’t appreciate shagging decapitated bats should bend over and accept the consequences. Next time there’s even a fucking hint of something cracking off there, they don’t get to travel here.
He's obviously an awful person but it is a Chinese virus. It started in China. And worse still, they covered it up for weeks.
Lewis
21-03-2020, 08:20 PM
It would be an opportune period to divest and isolate them afterwards when we're all gearing back into normal economic mode.
He's obviously an awful person but it is a Chinese virus. It started in China. And worse still, they covered it up for weeks.
Starting there is one thing. It’s the conditions they allow to make a situation like this problem I have an issue with.
Disco
21-03-2020, 08:22 PM
There's no need for half the shit they get up to in their wet markets.
It would be an opportune period to divest and isolate them afterwards when we're all gearing back into normal economic mode.
We’ll probably go begging for loans and investment from them when it’s over. The way we’ve already seen happen in places like Greece and Croatia, not to mention half of Africa. They’re fuckers for buying long term influence and they’ll be pissing themselves at this.
Shindig
21-03-2020, 08:25 PM
Especially given how they can just contain the shit in a six-week lockdown.
Jimmy Floyd
21-03-2020, 08:25 PM
It would be an opportune period to divest and isolate them afterwards when we're all gearing back into normal economic mode.
Good luck finding somewhere that competes with Chinese manufacturing. They have 1.5 billion people and are absolutely gagging to work them all to death.
Yevrah
21-03-2020, 08:26 PM
It would be an opportune period to divest and isolate them afterwards when we're all gearing back into normal economic mode.
If they're not our overlords by then I suspect they'll be in deep shit.
Boydy
21-03-2020, 08:30 PM
Jimmy Floyd you should do a quiz along the lines of your Christmas ones now.
Jimmy Floyd
21-03-2020, 08:31 PM
Jimmy Floyd you should do a quiz along the lines of your Christmas ones now.
I currently don't have the mental energy to do anything of much use at all except drag myself in to the office, but when I do then I will give it a go.
Giggles
21-03-2020, 08:50 PM
1241461395796963329
Lee Duffy. Straight into number two behind Hanks and just ahead of Elba in the prominence table of casualties.
Anyome of note died yet? I saw earlier Ali Milani's dad (may Allah bless his soul). Anyone bigger? Some postman from Limerick or something?
Giggles
21-03-2020, 09:15 PM
Lee Duffy. Straight into number two behind Hanks and just ahead of Elba in the prominence table of casualties.
Anyome of note died yet? I saw earlier Ali Milani's dad (may Allah bless his soul). Anyone bigger? Some postman from Limerick or something?
You’re missing the point with your smartness you turd.
The point of the post was a 28 year old semi pro soccer player needing 8 days hooked up to oxygen.
niko_cee
21-03-2020, 09:17 PM
Aye, but we all know that all elite level sportsmen are asthmatic.
Here you go Taz: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51991851
In fairness he looks at death's door in that pic.
Disco
21-03-2020, 09:20 PM
The credibility of the Mediterranean diet is taking a bit of a battering.
Giggles
21-03-2020, 09:22 PM
The credibility of the Mediterranean diet is taking a bit of a battering.
It’s nearly too good. Would you choose to pop at 70 like us or take that extra 25 years?
Sanz was fucked with kidney failure, apparently.
https://imagenes.20minutos.es/files/article_amp/uploads/2020/03/18/lorenzo-sanz.jpeg
Niko knows, that's a man who's lived a full life and had death beating down his front door.
randomlegend
21-03-2020, 09:34 PM
Lee last I heard there was some pretty significant doubt about whether that's how the virus' really got into humans, and looking at the latest it doesn't seem like anyone's worked out where it came from
Lee last I heard there was some pretty significant doubt about whether that's how the virus' really got into humans, and looking at the latest it doesn't seem like anyone's worked out where it came from
Fair enough. The most recent stuff I read places the probability of it having come from bats (apparently a reliable reservoir for SARS type illnesses) as being high. But you’re right that it’s supposition at this point. The working theory, again according to the last couple of pieces I read on it, is that it was probably bats via something else. And the Chinese (or some Chinese) have a predilection for eating exotic animals. Like bats.
Boydy
21-03-2020, 09:57 PM
I read it was bats via civets.
Jimmy Floyd
21-03-2020, 09:58 PM
I read it was bats via pangolins.
niko_cee
21-03-2020, 09:59 PM
Pangolins, they love those tasty, performance enhancing scales. Are Pangolins even native to China?
I'd always assumed these things just start in China because there are the most people there.
In other news, I may have to revise my earlier prediction for Jersey to clock the first death locally, as apparently, somehow, of our 15 new cases since telling all and sundry to return due to the borders closing on Thursday morning, 2 of them have wangled their way into intensive care. Presumably they must have infected everyone on the likely packed flights they came back on and I reckon we probably outstrip northern Italy for oldies . . .
Giggles
21-03-2020, 10:00 PM
I have a cousin who lives next door to a lad who used to know someone who once lived in the same housing estate as a woman who was seeing a cop, and they told me it was bats via polar bears.
I was told that you're all batshit mental.
niko_cee
21-03-2020, 10:04 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-51990534
:D
Average age of caravan owner? Can we not just let them all die now?
Spikey M
21-03-2020, 10:07 PM
I read it was bats via civets.
I think that was SARS, this one was Pangolins.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-51990534
:D
Average age of caravan owner? Can we not just let them all die now?
I think I see Lee in the photo somewhere.
Lewis
21-03-2020, 10:10 PM
1241481412089446403
Just to let you guys know, there's growing data to suggest conjunctivitis-type symptoms can be the early presentation of a covid 19 infection.
I think I see Lee in the photo somewhere.
Yellow.
Lewis
21-03-2020, 10:51 PM
Out-of-place yellow shit ruining everything at the minute.
Boydy
21-03-2020, 11:53 PM
Boris has told people not to visit loved ones on Mother's Day so I don't have to feel so guilty now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQD4B_hmdvo&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1nczFK8LzPrNj2ZKAd86cF5I_T3QBlHEDbJy3-VG2jRr4SgR4if2KgoY4
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 12:44 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51988877
:nono:
Boydy
22-03-2020, 12:48 AM
1240634861800611840
Good (terrifying) thread here.
And his predictions based off yesterday's figures:
1241351074528845824
Fuck.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 12:52 AM
It's what I've been saying today/yesterday, we're going to be worse.
There's nothing to suggest we won't be.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 12:54 AM
And we knew about it in advance. 2 weeks ago. It's absolutely tragic.
Lewis
22-03-2020, 02:17 AM
The much-vaunted Italian LOCKDOWN was phased in as ours is being, and until today they were more interested in criminalising joggers than getting people out of factories and offices. It's just that people who only started following this two weeks ago looked at the Italians burning piles of leather jackets and assumed that they had chosen to dive right into house arrest whilst we continued to share bath water and lol it off.
Have they even made any headway in flattening the curve? Looking briefly at their data I'm struggling to see where they are making headway.
Spoonsky
22-03-2020, 03:26 AM
And we knew about it in advance. 2 weeks ago. It's absolutely tragic.
For being supposedly the most advanced region in the world, the European response has been absolutely shocking. The US as well but that's more expected.
Spoonsky
22-03-2020, 03:35 AM
It would be funny, if it all weren't so morbid, to think that Boris Johnson held Churchill as his political role model, swoops into the PM's office just in time for the greatest national crisis since Churchill's time, and then proceeds to fuck it up in historically unprecedented fashion. What a fucktard.
John Arne
22-03-2020, 05:01 AM
Stay Home, Love Your Country
https://gyazo.com/396ed61ff936fd8c0758806e9c40273d.jpeg
John Arne
22-03-2020, 05:42 AM
We have surpassed 300,000 coronavirus cases worldwide.
The first 100,000 took 3 months
The second 100,000 took 12 days
The third 100,000 took 3 days
Giggles
22-03-2020, 07:53 AM
The Green contribution.
1240784286091030530
That's almost as daft as not believing that climate change is a real issue. Almost.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 08:31 AM
They’re the people (him especially, being the party leader) pushing the climate message, is it any wonder?
Jimmy Floyd
22-03-2020, 08:36 AM
For being supposedly the most advanced region in the world, the European response has been absolutely shocking. The US as well but that's more expected.
It's because we're the most advanced that our response(s) have been shocking. Liberal democracy, individual liberty and globalisation are not set up for a pandemic.
I know you can say Japan/Korea have those things but they kind of don't, at the same time, life is structured around seniority and compliance there.
niko_cee
22-03-2020, 08:38 AM
Someone was asking about Wales earlier (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51994504)
Good grief.
Spikey M
22-03-2020, 09:12 AM
It's because we're the most advanced that our response(s) have been shocking. Liberal democracy, individual liberty and globalisation are not set up for a pandemic.
I know you can say Japan/Korea have those things but they kind of don't, at the same time, life is structured around seniority and compliance there.
The thing is, it's not even slightly surprising. Who was actually expecting the Italians, French and Spanish to do what the government said?
We're heading down the same road, with a clear window into our future being plastered all over the tv, so we're worse and so is Borris. If you want people to stay home - force it. Asking nicely ain't going to cut it.
Jimmy Floyd
22-03-2020, 09:16 AM
America will be worse than anywhere in Europe because they're full of various types of crazy and also the social contract is extremely weak bordering on non-existent. All that fluff in the consitution isn't going to be very useful now.
randomlegend
22-03-2020, 09:18 AM
America will be worse than anywhere in Europe because they're full of various types of crazy and also the social contract is extremely weak bordering on non-existent. All that fluff in the consitution isn't going to be very useful now.
They'll just shoot it mate.
Spikey M
22-03-2020, 09:24 AM
All the idiots refusing the vaccine is going to be glorious. This is last days of Rome stuff (errr... literally).
Tim Shipman’s piece in today’s Sunday Times is worth a read:
There was a moment, when the decisions were made, when they wondered what on earth they had done, how far they had been forced to go. A moment when they sat “shellshocked”, reflecting on choices that will change Britain for the rest of our lives. “It took us the weekend to get ourselves into the emotional position where we were comfortable taking the decisions we took,” a minister said. “They were massive.”
In politics, there is so much overstatement. Not this time. Ten days ago the government was slowly gearing up its response to the coronavirus crisis, downplaying the need for drastic measures. By Monday, Boris Johnson had ordered an expansion of the state not seen since the Second World War to save the National Health Service, an institution formed in the cauldron of that conflict. A wartime-style lockdown of the capital was under active consideration.
This weekend, the events of the last week have already changed health policy, changed the economy and are already changing the people involved.
The last time the British state began a multiple service attack on a lurking enemy — D-Day in 1944 — it became known as The Longest Day. On Thursday one cabinet minister reflected: “It feels like the longest week. It felt like Brexit was going to change the country but it is the coronavirus that will do that now.”
Senior figures in government are insistent that the changes they made to the virus clampdown were not “a U-turn” but a vehicle accelerating faster along a track already laid. In truth, they no more resemble what went before than the space shuttle did a Citroën 2CV.
Conversations with more than a dozen ministers and cabinet ministers, special advisers, Downing Street staff and civil servants reveal a human drama, of leaders tested as never before and of the single most frightening warning a British prime minister has received in eight decades.
A shock to the system
The meeting that will change British society for a generation took place on the evening of Thursday, March 12. That was when the strategic advisory group of experts (Sage in Whitehall parlance), the government’s committee of scientists and medics, gathered to examine modelling from experts at Imperial College London and other institutions.
The results were shattering. A week earlier, councils had been warned to expect about 100,000 deaths from Covid-19. Now Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, and Sir Patrick Vallance, the chief scientific adviser, realised the estimates were wrong.
“Unmitigated, the death number was 510,000,” a senior figure said. “Mitigated we were told it was going to be 250,000. Once you see a figure of take no further action and a quarter of a million people die, the question you ask is, ‘What action?’” Another insider said: “There was a collision between the science and reality.”
Ministers had been on notice that drastic action might be needed since the virus first emerged in China’s Wuhan province in December. In January, Whitty told the cabinet: “It either stays in China or it will get everywhere.” For two months the government had time to prepare, but Johnson’s instincts were to resist a life-changing crackdown. “There was a lot of talk about how this was just a bit of flu,” one senior Tory recalled.
Dominic Cummings, the prime minister’s senior aide, became convinced that Britain would be better able to resist a lethal second wave of the disease next winter if Whitty’s prediction that 60% to 80% of the population became infected was right and the UK developed “herd immunity”.
At a private engagement at the end of February, Cummings outlined the government’s strategy. Those present say it was “herd immunity, protect the economy and if that means some pensioners die, too bad”.
At the Sage meeting on March 12, a moment now dubbed the “Domoscene conversion”, Cummings changed his mind. In this “penny-drop moment”, he realised he had helped set a course for catastrophe. Until this point, the rise in British infections had been below the European average. Now they were above it and on course to emulate Italy, where the picture was bleak. A minister said: “Seeing what was happening in Italy was the galvanising force across government.”
By Friday, March 13, Cummings had become the most outspoken advocate of a tough crackdown. “Dominic himself had a conversion,” a senior Tory said. “He’s gone from ‘herd immunity and let the old people die’, to ‘let’s shut down the country and the economy.’”
Cummings had a “meeting of minds” with Matt Hancock, the health secretary, who wanted stronger action to prevent NHS hospitals being swamped. Department of Health officials had impressed on Hancock that the death rate in Wuhan province was 3.4% when the hospitals were overrun and 0.7% elsewhere in China.
Johnson had also been queasy about the previous original approach. “Boris hated the language of ‘herd immunity’ because it implied that it was OK for people to die,” a senior source said. “Matt hated the language because it implied we had given up. You’ve got to fight.”
Cabinet ministers say Johnson has been far more decisive at crunch moments than his predecessor
The problem for the government was that at the moment herd immunity was being banished from policy, it had become the focus of publicity. That Wednesday, David Halpern of the Whitehall “nudge unit” put the phrase in the public domain. Two days later, Vallance repeated the idea on Radio 4. With Italy, France and Spain going into lockdown, the government’s critics accused Johnson of refusing to act because he wanted people to get ill.
Insiders say it was “very bumpy” that Friday. “The meetings were very messy,” said one source. But when Johnson gathered his key advisers in the cabinet room at 9.15am last Saturday there was unanimity. Whitty and Vallance explained that Britain had been four weeks behind Italy “and now we are closer”.
The two experts, together with Hancock and Cummings, all delivered to Johnson one message: “Now is the moment to act.” The prime minister agreed: “We must work around the clock and take all necessary measures.” One of those present said: “The mood in the room was astonishing. You could tell that something very significant had shifted.”
Flesh was added to the bones in another crunch meeting in Downing Street on Sunday night and again in the 9.15am meetings and bilaterals between Johnson and key cabinet ministers throughout last week.
The media was briefed that elderly and vulnerable people might have to self-isolate for a period of months and that everyone else would have to engage in “social distancing” — working from home, avoiding groups and unnecessary outings. Most significantly, without a gargantuan package of support for businesses, renters and the self-employed, millions of jobs would be lost and the economy would collapse.
The economic response
On Tuesday morning, as he prepared to unveil details of Britain’s biggest peacetime financial package, Rishi Sunak, the chancellor, gathered his closest aides and officials in his book-lined study in 11 Downing Street. “The scale of what is required is beyond anyone’s current imagination,” he said. “We have to remove all limiting assumptions.”
Over the weekend, Treasury officials worked through the night to prepare a package for business as if planning a full budget. “They did three months’ work in 48 hours,” a Treasury source said. It helped that Charles Roxburgh, the second permanent secretary, and Andrew Bailey, the new governor of the Bank of England, were both veterans of the response to the 2008 financial crash.
When he walked out with Johnson for a Downing Street news conference on Tuesday afternoon, aides were still finalising Sunak’s comments as the statement came off the printer. The chancellor had no time to rehearse or to prepare for questions but gave an assured performance as he outlined plans for £350bn of government-backed loans and cash grants for business. “We will do whatever it takes,” he repeatedly intoned.
Colleagues say Sunak’s confidence came because he is deeply engaged “in the weeds” of the policy. “Some ministers set the broad parameters for 15 minutes and the officials go away and do the work,” said one source. “He’s more hands-on. He prefers a 30 to 40-minute meeting where he can properly kick the tyres and help solve the problems. He’s across the detail.”
Measures to help save jobs took longer, with a plan for the government to pay a high percentage of wages in cash-strapped firms finally being announced on Friday afternoon. Sunak agreed the package in a meeting with Johnson on Thursday night in which the pair shared a vegetarian takeaway pizza. The prime minister said: “In 2008, the government looked after the bankers. Now we must make sure we look after the people first.”
At 11.30pm the chancellor was sending messages to his permanent secretary thanking him for the “superb” work of some officials. A colleague said: “He’s got the brainpower. More importantly, he’s got the character for this moment.”
Sunak will need it because the risks are immense. One friend said: “Rishi is very acutely aware that we are in danger of driving the economy off a cliff by shutting everything up. All this talk of bouncing straight back . . . we will have no airlines to bounce straight back with if we’re not careful.”
The prime minister’s big decision on Wednesday was that schools would close on Friday, a decision arrived at with Gavin Williamson, the education secretary. They decided to act as many schools took matters into their own hands, to try to ensure childcare for key workers.
It was another decision Johnson had resisted the week before, but cabinet ministers are clear that behind the scenes he has been far more decisive at crunch moments than his predecessor. “He’s been absolutely brilliant,” said one. “He makes decisions fast.” Another said: “If Theresa May was still be in charge we would, by now, have just about signed off a request that people wash their hands.” Another cabinet source added: “And if Philip Hammond was still chancellor he would have refused even to pay for that.”
Nonetheless, even admirers admit that Johnson is not finding it easy to project the same decisiveness in his somewhat hesitant public appearances. “He’s a naturally cheerful person,” one colleague said. “He finds it difficult to deliver bad news.” Business leaders were surprised during a conference call on Monday, when he was trying to persuade them to build ventilators, to hear him describe the effort as “Operation Last Gasp”.
Whitty and Vallance began their own press conferences at the end of the week amid concern that some of Johnson’s pronouncements — including a claim that they could “turn the tide” within 12 weeks — were not grounded in evidence. “Some of the experts are appalled by some of his claims,” a Whitehall source said. A Tory aide said: “Boris looks haunted. It’s like when George W Bush came in thinking he was going to be the education-reforming president and had to deal with the war on terror.” Another senior Tory said: “Boris is shellshocked.”
Johnson, who is a civil libertarian at heart, spent the week resisting Cummings’s demands for a full-blown lockdown of London — banning inhabitants from travelling outside the city.
Discussions about a shutdown were first aired at Cobra on Friday, March 13. By Tuesday the news was leaking after a Cabinet Office official emailed other departments to ask how a curfew might work. A Whitehall insider said: “It was quickly established that the Paris model — with people being issued paperwork and allowed out of the family home one at a time would not work.”
A senior Tory said: “Boris really doesn’t want to shut stuff down. He is more worried than most about the economic impact but also the social impact of locking people up in their homes for months. Fundamentally there is a Boris-Dom cleavage. First Boris bottled herd immunity. Now he’s bottling lockdown.”
Nonetheless, Johnson managed to fuel speculation that there would be troops on the streets and a travel ban by telling Wednesday’s press conference that the government “will not hesitate” to take further steps. “We live in a land of liberty,” he said. “But we will rule nothing out.”
On Thursday the PM’s spokesman was forced to say there were “no plans” to close down London transport and “zero prospect” of restrictions on travel. On Friday less draconian restrictions, closing pubs, clubs and restaurants nationwide, were unveiled. “Whoever was briefing details of the full lockdown is bordering on a national security threat,” said one Tory with links at the top of Whitehall. “They are promulgating misinformation and spreading alarm.”
Another source said the loose talk could have seen wealthy “superspreaders” flee London to infect people elsewhere: “If you’re going to do a lockdown you don’t tell people first or you find they are all on the roof getting the last helicopter out of Saigon.”
Nonetheless, Whitehall officials are quietly drawing up lists of key workers who would be issued with a travel permit if a full crackdown follows. Officials have also been working on a “lockdown list” of products that must be manufactured by law. They may yet be necessary. A minister said: “We won’t know for two weeks if the current measures are enough.”
Communication problems
On Thursday, after criticism from ministers and MPs that No 10 had failed to provide clear messages to the public, Cummings and the communications director, Lee Cain, summoned the team who won the general election.
Isaac Levido, the Tory campaign director, went to No 10, with former Vote Leave hands Paul Stephenson and Henry de Zoete on a video conference call. Together they devised a slogan “Stay home. Save lives. Protect our NHS,” which was rolled out on Friday.
The No 10 morning meeting is now held on the Zoom video app to allow more home working. To try to raise morale, Johnson has also sent video messages thanking civil servants for their hard work. On Tuesday he returned from a morning run with his dog Dilyn to find his spokesman, James Slack, at the back of No 10 wishing his mother a happy birthday. Johnson took the phone and spoke to her for 10 minutes.
However, many sources report that the Downing Street machine is fast running out of steam. “Everyone is working to capacity and is absolutely exhausted,” said one insider. “It’s utter chaos and there is no end in sight.”
Businesses phoning up to offer help say Downing Street seems “swamped”. One ventilator manufacturer claimed on Newsnight that the government had not put in any orders — though sources say 1,400 firms are offering to build them and by Friday morning eight companies who have never made a ventilator were turning them out.
Some in Downing Street are turning to drink. An aide joked on Thursday that they had run out of hand sanitiser and were “using the contents of a vodka miniature” instead. Others are recruiting old friends. Gabriel Milland, a former head of press to Michael Gove, was drafted into No 10 last week. Tom Shinner, the civil servant who did the most to prepare Britain for a no-deal Brexit, who left the government last year, has also been rehired.
The toll is telling on ministers and tensions between them have bubbled over. “It’s miserable and horrible and you just have to get on with it,” a cabinet minister said.
The “core four” in all the key meetings are the chairmen of four inter-ministerial committees: Dominic Raab, the foreign secretary, who chairs the international committee; Sunak, who chairs the economic committee; Hancock, who chairs the health committee; and Gove, who chairs the other public sector committee.
Numerous sources say Gove has repeatedly sniped at Hancock. “There have been tensions over where responsibilities begin and end,” one observed. Some ministers are lobbying to see Gove take charge if Johnson is incapacitated with Covid-19 or if he takes paternity leave, though Sunak ranks higher in the cabinet rankings on the gov.uk website and the job is likely to be Raab’s, since he is officially “first secretary of state”.
But a minister said: “Considering the scale of the massive decisions we have been making it has been remarkably collegiate.”
Ministers hope the dramatic events of the last week will reduce the likely death toll from Covid-19 to “a bad seasonal flu”, which means tens, not hundreds, of thousands of deaths. The worst recent year was 2014-15 when 28,000 people died.
But there are perils ahead. “Boris and his team are absolutely terrified because it will not be the NHS by end of this,” a Whitehall source said. “It will be the corona health service and will just be there to pump oxygen into patients.”
MPs speculate that there will be two big inquiries — an international one into the origins of the virus in China’s live animal “wet markets”; and a second into the government’s preparations and policy decisions. “If we end up like Italy in two weeks’ time and 30-year-old doctors are dropping dead, the government is going to be in big trouble,” a Labour MP said.
Amid the frenzy of events, more thoughtful Tories have concluded that the decisions taken last week will change three key aspects of the way the world works. One said: “One is the debate around globalisation. Is Trump right that we just need to build bigger walls, or is Gordon Brown right that global problems need global solutions? The second is Socialism v The Free Market. Large parts of the economy are going to be socialised after this. I fear it leads to nationalists and socialists winning, to national socialism.”
The third fissure may yet be the worst. “It’s the intergenerational question. It is unsustainable to have people in their youth put their whole life on hold for months while the economy tanks to save a 91-year-old who would have died six months later anyway.”
Whatever the outcome, ministers have little doubt about the significance of the virus. “It’s shaking the world,” one said. Another, who has been up to his neck in the dramas of the past three years, was more prosaic: “My obituary gets more interesting every week.”
The sadness is that there will be many other obituaries to be written too.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 09:41 AM
https://extra.ie/2020/03/22/must-see/easyjet-apologises-video-leo-varadkar
https://youtu.be/YVCqSbIRPH8
Jimmy Floyd
22-03-2020, 09:50 AM
Interesting Lee (as Shipman always is) and in the 'third fissure' we have the nub of the upcoming problem I think.
It’s what we’ll end up doing. Lockdown for however many months this first peak takes to subside, then back out into society accepting the collateral for the sake of a bit of normality for a period. This isn’t going to be about saving the old or vulnerable. It’s going to be about having as few of them sick at one time as the health service can manage.
Shindig
22-03-2020, 10:09 AM
Fuck that noise. Military on the streets, please. Looking at Lombardy's case numbers since the lockdown, there has been no trend of this slowing down. At best, it stifled a week ago with 1,500 cases for a few days. Since the 19th they've accelerated past 3,200.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 10:24 AM
Given we don’t know the numbers of who have it in anything like enough accuracy I wouldn’t take accelerating case numbers as proof a lockdown isn’t working. With 800 dead in a day the 3,200 confirmed cases yesterday probably doesn’t cover many more people beyond the poor bastards who are in hospital.
Shindig
22-03-2020, 10:32 AM
True. And with cases you don't know the severity. Some could mild and isolating at home, some could be in the ICU already. And testing is always increasing. You know, for a country reluctant to test at the start of this, we're finding those swabs from somewhere. China's daily death count didn't break 150. For a country so dense, that's astounding. It's something we can achieve but we need authority willing to enforce it.
Magic
22-03-2020, 10:35 AM
New cases are pointless. It's the deaths that are important.
True. And with cases you don't know the severity. Some could mild and isolating at home, some could be in the ICU already. And testing is always increasing. You know, for a country reluctant to test at the start of this, we're finding those swabs from somewhere. China's daily death count didn't break 150. For a country so dense, that's astounding. It's something we can achieve but we need authority willing to enforce it.
Do we believe the numbers coming from China though?
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 10:44 AM
It probably doesn't matter anyway. We can't do what China will actually have done if the numbers are true. What they claim to have done we could maybe do.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 10:45 AM
But no, I don't believe them.
Lewis
22-03-2020, 11:14 AM
The Green contribution.
I've just been in B&Q and it was heaving, so he might be onto something. There was also an old man shouting at people in the queue to spread out 'otherwise you'll kill people'. One man told him to fuck off and asked him why he was there if he was so bothered, which he obviously didn't have an answer for. That captures the dilemma quite neatly I think.
It probably doesn't matter anyway. We can't do what China will actually have done if the numbers are true. What they claim to have done we could maybe do.
Not sure we want this anyway:
Quote:
I live in China, have done for some time.
Just wanted to explain what social distancing means here.
I left the country for 7 weeks at Chinese New Year. I returned this week. There was a 6 hour procedure to get off the plane, through immigration and health checks to finally arrive at a centre. In this centre you were organised depending on what district you live in. If you lived alone you could go back to your apartment*. My wife is now at home in our apartment.
I am currently, and have been for a few days, locked in a hotel room. I will be in here for 14 days. I can order food up to my room. There are 3 choices of meal in total for the duration of the stay. Each meal is around 8 quid. Oh, I am paying a grand for the stay (my choice I accept that, I chose to come home). I am not allowed to leave the room. Every two hours hazmats walk past the room spraying disinfectant everywhere. I have to report my temperature twice a day. On Day 15, medical professionals will take me back to my apartment and give me a special certificate that means I can go outside.
*My wife is not allowed to leave the apartment for two weeks. They have volunteers at the compound who will collect deliveries for her and put them at the door and quite literally run away. The only time she can open the door is to collect the delivery or put her rubbish outside. Our compound is quite friendly. Other friends have been sealed into their apartment with tape, others have cameras placed outside their door and others have a sensor placed on the door with strict instructions that they can only open the door once a day or they are arrested. We all have to report our temperature to authorities twice a day.
When we are finally allowed out we will be arrested if we do not wear masks, we will need to carry our certificates explaining that we have completed quarantine. Nobody is allowed to eat meals together. Starbucks have a rule, like many other places, of one person per table. Every shop, and I mean every shop, checks temp when you enter. Every food delivery you have you will be informed of the person’s temperature who cooked it and the person who delivered it temperature.
I am not complaining, I chose to live in China and do actually enjoy it here (well, not right now). These are the extremes China are going to, I fully understand that Europe is not China but fucking hell. I wouldn’t be going the pub in England if I knew how serious this was. Wuhan the epicentre is around two hours flight from Beijing. Italy is now worse than China and it is a similar distance away. Stay at fucking home.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 11:49 AM
Indeed. We simply can't do that in the West, we just don't work that way.
And if we don't want it and/or can't do it, then we need to accept that we're going to lose a lot of people.
If we're entering an age of global pandemics due to over population, shitty practices and ludicrously good transport links then it makes you question whether the West have got it right after all. Not saying I'd want to be in China, but somewhere like Japan or South Korea looks immediately more attractive than they once did. Sure they've had to do some wank things too though.
Bernanke
22-03-2020, 11:54 AM
Spanish numbers:
-24926 infected (+4946)
-1326 dead (+324)
-2125 recovered (+540)
Next update:
-28572 infected (+3646, less than yesterday)
-1720 dead (+394, more than yesterday)
-2575 recovered (+450)
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 11:55 AM
344 on the board for Spain today. Exactly the same trajectory as Italy.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 11:56 AM
And people on my Facebook feed are still talking about rescheduling their holiday to Europe to June.
It's absolutely baffling.
Jimmy Floyd
22-03-2020, 12:01 PM
We're rescheduling our Portugal trip for next March but even that I can't really see happening. Internally we should be alright by then. Probably.
Boydy
22-03-2020, 12:03 PM
And people on my Facebook feed are still talking about rescheduling their holiday to Europe to June.
It's absolutely baffling.
Nobody's going on holiday this year, nor should they be allowed to.
Spikey M
22-03-2020, 12:05 PM
Yeah, Croatia is being moved to May/June next year. Will have to hope we can do Centre Parcs in November still. I don't think we could get European holidays happening this year even if we did go full China on the situation (Which I would take if it saved my holiday tbh).
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 12:10 PM
Nobody's going on holiday this year, nor should they be allowed to.
If you asked me when I thought usual international passenger air travel would resume, I honestly couldn't even guess. It will be that long.
Spikey M
22-03-2020, 12:18 PM
I think you're expecting everyone to be a bit too reasonable. They will rush the flights back into action. The Med needs tourism and every carrier will end up going bust / need bailing out if it goes on all year. When Europe as a whole sees infection rates fall they'll open up shop again.
I’m just waiting for my holidays to be cancelled so I can have the money back. Not a chance we’ll be going. I’m with Spikey though. My holidays are what keep me going. I’d accept whatever draconian measures necessary to make them happen.
Just been sat in the garden for a bit and it’s quite nice. As long as people are sensible, things could be worse.
Jimmy Floyd
22-03-2020, 12:22 PM
Yeah, I think Spikey is right. Half these places literally cannot survive without tourism. Even if it means everyone gets temperature checked at the airport for the foreseeable, they won't shut these things down.
Similarly, although I said otherwise last night, international sport and things like that will have to resume.
What you might not see is so many city breaks, international conferences etc etc. Or you'll need a vaccine certificate (once that's happening) to travel.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 12:22 PM
Further to the caravanning wank in the highlands yesterday, people are literally rushing to the hills.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51994504
It's nice that we have the internet to keep some form of record of who all the morons are at this time.
344 on the board for Spain today. Exactly the same trajectory as Italy.
Fewer cases is good though. Not sure when they locked down compared to Italy. It feels like ages but time is working differently at the minute. Even if cases continue to fall it’s a long bleak lag before deaths follow.
Yeah, I think Spikey is right. Half these places literally cannot survive without tourism. Even if it means everyone gets temperature checked at the airport for the foreseeable, they won't shut these things down.
What you might not see is so many city breaks, international conferences etc etc.
A price well worth paying. We were looking back at holiday photos this morning. Incredible to think that even 4 months ago this just didn’t exist.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 12:25 PM
I'll concede defeat on that one then gents, perhaps didn't think it through properly.
As for this:
I’m just waiting for my holidays to be cancelled so I can have the money back. Not a chance we’ll be going. I’m with Spikey though. My holidays are what keep me going. I’d accept whatever draconian measures necessary to make them happen.
Just been sat in the garden for a bit and it’s quite nice. As long as people are sensible, things could be worse.
My garden, as shit as it is at the moment (knackered decking inherited, no furniture) is a wonderful place. This will definitely make us appreciate things we all took for granted so much more. Even if that does only last very temporarily.
Spikey M
22-03-2020, 12:26 PM
Yeah, I think Spikey is right. Half these places literally cannot survive without tourism. Even if it means everyone gets temperature checked at the airport for the foreseeable, they won't shut these things down.
Similarly, although I said otherwise last night, international sport and things like that will have to resume.
What you might not see is so many city breaks, international conferences etc etc. Or you'll need a vaccine certificate (once that's happening) to travel.
I can see alot of places doing 'Resort Lockdowns'. You can come, but you stay in the hotel bar your flights and transfers.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 12:26 PM
Fewer cases is good though. Not sure when they locked down compared to Italy. It feels like ages but time is working differently at the minute. Even if cases continue to fall it’s a long bleak lag before deaths follow.
Can anything be read into case numbers at the moment? Outside of countries that have dealt with and are continuing to deal with this properly?
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 12:27 PM
I mean, Indonesia (God bless them) have a near 10% death rate going by the case numbers.
Surely they're meaningless?
Can anything be read into case numbers at the moment? Outside of countries that have dealt with and are continuing to deal with this properly?
Unless you hit a ceiling on testing capacity it’s useful as a measure of growth. Although looks like the Spain news isn’t good at all, having double checked. They update more than once a day.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 12:33 PM
Iran's Supreme Leader has rejected America's offer of aid to help the country with its battle against coronavirus.
In a televised speech, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said the US was Iran's "most evil enemy" and hinted at a conspiracy theory, also voiced by some Chinese officials, that America was responsible for the pandemic.
“I do not know how real this accusation is but when it exists, who in their right mind would trust you to bring them medication?" Mr Khamenei said. "Possibly your medicine is a way to spread the virus more.”
Without offering any evidence, he also alleged that the virus “is specifically built for Iran using the genetic data of Iranians which they have obtained through different means”.
I'm just gonna leave that there...
Shindig
22-03-2020, 12:40 PM
North Korea did the same.
Jimmy Floyd
22-03-2020, 12:41 PM
Anyone still doing any form of confrontational politics at this point (cf. most of Twitter) is getting it so, so wrong.
Challenges to the way forward are healthy and necessary, but on Friday I just saw reams and reams of Corbynistas calling the economic measures insincere because of Rishi Sunak's 'voting record', whatever that means by now.
That last sentence is a strange way of admitting things are really shit in Iran.
Disco
22-03-2020, 12:48 PM
Those American dogs and their 'different means'.
In terms of holiday I have a 6.5k trip to South Africa in October, I've paid half and plan on finish the payments. I'm sure it wont happen but I assume I'll need to have paid in fill for the ATOL protection to kick in?
Shindig
22-03-2020, 01:00 PM
Who'd you book with?
Meant to be going to Torquay for a weekend end of May and IoW in July (yeah alright we have crap holidays). Not sure I can justify either now though.
I postponed my work leave from next Fall to 2021, as I am not sure that this shit will be over by August.
Shindig
22-03-2020, 01:16 PM
The Atol website seems to suggest you're covered for flights paid in instalments. Andy. I'm starting to think the only way I'm having a holiday in September/October is if I've had an antigen test to say I've had it. America will simply be too fucked without one.
Also, went to Walmart this morning and the toilet roll aisle is still completely empty. It better be restocked soon, because I probably only have about a month's worth left.
Meant to be going to Torquay for a weekend end of May and IoW in July (yeah alright we have crap holidays). Not sure I can justify either now though.
Nothing wrong with a UK holiday.
As I said yesterday we have Cornwall booked in May and going, albeit behaving differently to normal, is attractive. But we can’t justify increasing pressure on a county which probably won’t be too badly hit due to low population density and which has fuck all facilities to handle a surge created by people escaping that way.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 01:32 PM
People shouldn't be going on holiday within the UK. Sure some people might behave responsibly but there are too many idiots and that will ultimately be why we can't have nice things.
John Arne
22-03-2020, 01:34 PM
We went up to our 99th case today. Echoing what the guy in China said, Vietnam continues to treat this seriously. Temp testing at all public places and apartment blocks. Masks mandatory in all public places.
All arrivals in 14 day quarantine. Anybody who tests positive - the government then release their previous week's history (bars, restaurants etc) and asks people who can have been on contact to go get tested or self isolate.
Boydy
22-03-2020, 01:37 PM
I'm just gonna leave that there...
As a counterpoint to this, I read that the US was tightening sanctions on Iran which in the middle of this is pretty fucking awful.
I'll see if I can find a link.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 01:38 PM
On the mask wearing, I simply don't believe they don't work at all.
Which is sort of born out by the shit that gets tacked on the end of the justifications for them not working. Like "people put their hands under them". Well, ok, but that's not the mask's fault.
If countries that are tackling this properly are mandating the wearing of them then I'm inclined to go with them.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 01:40 PM
As a counterpoint to this, I read that the US was tightening sanctions on Iran which in the middle of this is pretty fucking awful.
I'll see if I can find a link.
It would be a great time for WWIII to start... Surely everyone has enough to worry about domestically at the moment. Given how hard it's going to hit them, the US really should be doing their best to not piss unstable nations off for a while.
Boydy
22-03-2020, 01:41 PM
Further sanctions on Iran:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/19/us-iran-coronavirus-sanctions-rocket-attacks-iraq-camp-taji/
People shouldn't be going on holiday within the UK. Sure some people might behave responsibly but there are too many idiots and that will ultimately be why we can't have nice things.
‘Nothing wrong with a UK holiday’ was a general point. We ought to be staying as close to our homes as possible through this.
Can’t really blame people with caravans attempting to fuck off out of somewhere they feel unsafe. But I suppose it’s then up to local councils to shut down caravan parks and start ticketing the fuck out of them to clear them away if it protects the healthcare system.
I went for a wander to a forest today with the same friend I played golf with yesterday. Car park was mobbed but the forest is so open. Basically pass by another person and given them a good berth.
Very fortunate to live so close to empty countryside. If they do a lockdown it should really only be the high risk places/cities. If they locked down the whole of Scotland you’d have folk in country towns flaunting it for sure. And good luck policing that.
Bernanke
22-03-2020, 02:26 PM
1241686739862913024
In line with the numbers from that smaller Italian village that 50% are completely asymptomatic, probably also correlated to the younger you are the less likely you are to show symptoms.
phonics
22-03-2020, 02:35 PM
Yeah Iran doesn’t need America’s ‘help’. It needs America’s boot off of its throat.
Lewis
22-03-2020, 02:35 PM
lol at Amigo being in New York when he could be coasting it out with the rest of the inbreds.
Boydy
22-03-2020, 02:37 PM
lol at Amigo being in New York when he could be coasting it out with the rest of the inbreds.
Does he live there these days?
Lewis
22-03-2020, 02:42 PM
He's Luca's cleaner.
phonics
22-03-2020, 02:43 PM
Sorry that this info is coming to you late, I'm on day 9 of lockdown and the one thing I wish I'd done? Haircut.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 02:48 PM
He's Luca's cleaner.
Is that what fluffer means?
Lewis
22-03-2020, 02:55 PM
Depends what Luca fills his weekends with.
bruhnaldo
22-03-2020, 03:03 PM
So one of the hospitals around me had a guy come in from France for a motorcycle accident on the 10th.
He apparently got sick at some point in between that and Friday as he got tested and was deemed a positive.
So for however many days before he actually got sick he had nurses doctors technicians etc all treating him as just a motorcycle accident
Basically what I’m saying is people can make this political but when you hear stories like that we have no chance bro
bruhnaldo
22-03-2020, 03:05 PM
763 in Florida at the moment and that’s only going to skyrocket cause we are just now getting tests / tests back
Shindig
22-03-2020, 03:06 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Js1k9sp0lQ
Alan Shearer The 2nd
22-03-2020, 03:21 PM
Next door had their daughter and grandsons round earlier this afternoon, not enough people are listening.
Magic
22-03-2020, 03:22 PM
Another Scottish death. 10.
Few pubs still open in Manc and doing a roaring trade.
Waffdon
22-03-2020, 03:24 PM
I presume they’ll shut everything and go full on lockdown by Tuesday as everyone is still flooding shops. Not paid for a train all week though. Silver linings
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 03:24 PM
More bad news, this time on how long it survives outside of the host.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNQUHc8wbRc
From this study: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973?query=featured_home
We need a lockdown now.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 03:33 PM
So one of the hospitals around me had a guy come in from France for a motorcycle accident on the 10th.
He apparently got sick at some point in between that and Friday as he got tested and was deemed a positive.
So for however many days before he actually got sick he had nurses doctors technicians etc all treating him as just a motorcycle accident
Basically what I’m saying is people can make this political but when you hear stories like that we have no chance bro
Depending on his age and all, coming off a bike would probably be worth looking at anyway.
Few pubs still open in Manc and doing a roaring trade.
Can imagine if the government is actually interested in this and find out they’ll be fined to high heaven and stripped of licences.
What a bunch of bastards.
randomlegend
22-03-2020, 03:43 PM
I can't be bothered to check back if anyone has already posted this, but the hour early opening by Tesco for NHS and elderly this morning was beyond fucking retarded. Firstly, they shouldn't be having both on the same morning. Secondly, tills weren't open till the shop opened to everyone else anyway. So what they actually did was put a load of the most vulnerable people in an enclosed space with a load of the most high risk people to be carrying the virus for an hour.
It seriously defies belief.
Mellberg
22-03-2020, 03:56 PM
If that's true it's a disgrace.
Why can't people be arsed to manage even situations like that properly? Just apply some thought.
niko_cee
22-03-2020, 03:57 PM
:D
That does sound a good idea.
All of the wannabe-future-celeb-youtubers 'trying to help out' by doing shit for kids with an obvious eye on a post-crisis morning tv talkshow tour and beyond are seriously getting on my tits and we aren't even into day 2 of half-arsed lockdown.
Might try and write a massive SOS message on my back patio as some sort of alleged art project and see how long it takes for google maps to update its imagery.
Boydy
22-03-2020, 04:18 PM
Why aren't the old people hours during the week?
Giggles
22-03-2020, 04:20 PM
Why aren't the old people hours during the week?
The ones here in Aldi are 9am to 1pm every day.
First time going out in five days for me today and I popped to Aldi. You'd never have guessed anything was wrong. The shelves were full and there was nobody in there. I was having the time of my life.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 04:22 PM
First time going out in five days for me today and I popped to Aldi. You'd never have guessed anything was wrong. The shelves were full and there was nobody in there. I was having the time of my life.
People are finally realising that (for now) there’s no interruption to supply.
Vercetti
22-03-2020, 04:23 PM
People are still all plebbed out around here.
Hopefully they'll be the first to fall.
Lofty
22-03-2020, 04:42 PM
The odds look significant. Mild bout of fever at onset (so mild I carried on going into work and saying to people I had it for some lols back when no one took the threat too seriously in London) 3 weeks ago. All symptoms cleared within days but lost both senses and lung capacity has remained hindered so it's a respiratory infection for sure. Would be nice for it to start pissin off though as the loss of smell/taste alone fucks with your mental state let alone quarantining a borderline ADHD adult.
Just seen a thing on BBC that the French reckon loss of smell and taste are rare symptoms.
At least you don't need to stockpile the bog roll eh.
Boydy
22-03-2020, 04:47 PM
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/amp/holes-drilled-in-tyres-as-six-ambulances-attacked-224229/
What the fuck.
Whoever did that should be kicked to death.
Went for a walk. Was chockablock. :lol: Passed about 40 dog walkers and ramblers in about 40 minutes.
Jimmy Floyd
22-03-2020, 04:52 PM
Yeah, we're going to be on curfew very soon. People are thick as shit to a greater degree than I was previously aware.
To be honest I think another problem is people don't watch the news/consume any form of media in the way authorities think they do, so they just will not be aware of half the messaging.
Luke Emia
22-03-2020, 04:57 PM
Yeah, we're going to be on curfew very soon. People are thick as shit to a greater degree than I was previously aware.
To be honest I think another problem is people don't watch the news/consume any form of media in the way authorities think they do, so they just will not be aware of half the messaging.
Saw a news story that a minor minister said on SKY that if people don’t do as they are told that could be the route. If they are briefing it expect an update on the next few days.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 04:58 PM
Yeah, we're going to be on curfew very soon. People are thick as shit to a greater degree than I was previously aware.
Yep. I knew we had some stupid people in the country but the shit I've seen/heard about today is on another level.
Magic
22-03-2020, 04:59 PM
Old cunts are the worst. They just don't get it. They will soon enough. :)
-james-
22-03-2020, 05:08 PM
Greece has just banned going outside basically.
Boydy
22-03-2020, 05:11 PM
Greece has just banned going outside basically.
How many cases and deaths have they had so far?
-james-
22-03-2020, 05:12 PM
How many cases and deaths have they had so far?
About 600 cases and 15 deaths. Incredible measures when you take those facts in isolation.
Boydy
22-03-2020, 05:14 PM
About 600 cases and 15 deaths. Incredible measures when you take those facts in isolation.
Yeah but it seems like they're acting swiftly at least. What's their testing rate like?
Boydy
22-03-2020, 05:14 PM
Did this dickhead just say he wants people to be able to go to parks when some London boroughs are closing their parks?
-james-
22-03-2020, 05:18 PM
Yeah but it seems like they're acting swiftly at least. What's their testing rate like?
Yeah testing isn't widespread. Greek healthcare is miserable so I can see why they're shitting themselves.
They've been in quasi-lockdown for about 10 days now though and from what I hear everywhere was already pretty deserted.
Shindig
22-03-2020, 05:20 PM
Mr Johnson says that the shielding of around 1.5 million vulnerable people will do more than many other measures to reduce the number of coronavirus cases in the UK.
No, it won't. It's no lockdown. It's no military presence to ensure cunts don't cunt.
-james-
22-03-2020, 05:22 PM
48 UK deaths since yesterday is a result, really, going by this (https://twitter.com/colintrainor/status/1241427681134227457).
I've quite enjoyed today. Went for a run in the morning, cut the in laws garden in the afternoon, and completely avoided the news.
Back to the dread.
Italian deaths 651 today. 793 yesterday. Let’s hope that’s a sign of the peak being reached, at least in the north.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 05:24 PM
Yeah, we should have been at about 100 by tomorrow if we were 2 weeks behind.
Some good news.
Had an email and text from my boss, he has asked for us to let him know if we need to isolate and supports it fully and asked for our availability next week. He says he is going to keep the number of staff as limited as he can, if you’re in, it’s to work with children and not to do other less important tasks.
We were meant to all go in tomorrow and have a meeting where he’s sort out a rota, but it seems he’s doing that at home today and let us know later, so only the people who need to be are in tomorrow.
A surprisingly sensible way of doing it.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 05:35 PM
Few pubs still open in Manc and doing a roaring trade.
Report them if they shouldn’t be open.
Hopefully the new legislation here meaning you’ll lose your licence of caught open will mean that the tramps don’t try open at all.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 05:38 PM
Those that don't close now shouldn't be allowed to open again when this is all over. Not sure how you'd police that, but find a way.
Lewis
22-03-2020, 05:54 PM
You could just exclude them from the bailout scheme, the implication of which was that it only covers losses due to following official advice. If you haven't then fuck off.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 06:10 PM
1241788474166071296
Adramelch
22-03-2020, 06:15 PM
The US are royally fucked aren't they?
Byron
22-03-2020, 06:16 PM
Yep. In a years time the US will be the story, we're talking tens of thousands dead minimum.
niko_cee
22-03-2020, 06:22 PM
They'll just massage the figures by giving them all a handgun come the end so they can bury the stats in with all the other gun deaths.
Adramelch
22-03-2020, 06:24 PM
They've had more cases today than France had for the last month in total. Unless they massively improved testing, which could also be the case.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 06:25 PM
1241790269550460931
They should stop the sale of fuel and ban shopping trolleys. That's the kind of top class thinking that would get me a job in that Dominic Cummings circus troupe.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 06:28 PM
They should stop the sale of fuel and ban shopping trolleys. That's the kind of top class thinking that would get me a job in that Dominic Cummings circus troupe.
Yeah no fuel would be really smart when you need to get to a hospital quickly.
Spikey M
22-03-2020, 06:32 PM
We have Ambulances over here.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 06:32 PM
We have Ambulances over here.
They won’t be busy at all.
Spikey M
22-03-2020, 06:34 PM
The good thing about having an hours wait as standard is that you barely notice when you've died whilst waiting.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 06:36 PM
Better to die in the comfort of your own car.
niko_cee
22-03-2020, 06:45 PM
An 18 year old (with unspecified underlying health conditions) is among the UK dead today.
randomlegend
22-03-2020, 07:04 PM
There's a couple of African registrars at work who I've been on with most of the last week or so. They've both treated ebola cases so (rightly or wrongly) they are just not remotely scared of treating this (still following guidance and everything).
It's been good for me I think, kept me out my own head.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 07:06 PM
Are you expecting to be on the front line of this at some stage RL?
Adramelch
22-03-2020, 07:12 PM
Assuming the data are correct, France seem to have halted the exponential part of the equation the last few days:
Thursday: 1861 new cases
Friday: 1617 new cases
Saturday: 1847 new cases
Sunday: 1559 new cases
It's a very small sample of course.
randomlegend
22-03-2020, 07:16 PM
I don't know.
I'm on the front line in paeds a lot of the time, but the kids aren't getting very sick with it (thank fucking Christ). We've had no confirmed cases in paeds so far (although we aren't testing many as very few of the suspected ones have been unwell enough to warrant admission). We will start getting confirmed cases soon though so I'm going to be exposed to it, and frankly it's pretty likely I've already seen a kid with it who just wasn't tested.
What I'm dreading is if adult front line services get over-run and we get pulled off paeds to help. I think we're about as protected as we can get as trainees in paeds because it's such a precious service so we'd probably be about last to be moved, but it could still happen. I fully accept that's a selfish attitude, and if I'm called I'll obviously go, but if I'm not I can't pretend I won't be incredibly relieved.
ScousePig
22-03-2020, 07:17 PM
Had an email and text from my boss, he has asked for us to let him know if we need to isolate and supports it fully and asked for our availability next week. He says he is going to keep the number of staff as limited as he can, if you’re in, it’s to work with children and not to do other less important tasks.
We were meant to all go in tomorrow and have a meeting where he’s sort out a rota, but it seems he’s doing that at home today and let us know later, so only the people who need to be are in tomorrow.
A surprisingly sensible way of doing it.
My boss doesn't take his work home with him. Which is admirable to an extent, but not always practical and at the moment not very helpful. All we've had so far is a message on the notice board saying 'all staff in next week'. I'm hoping that just means Monday and we take it from there. I've a feeling we're going to have a meeting at 8.30 with all 20 or so staff members crammed inside our staff room.
My girlfriend's school on the other hand have been in contact over the weekend a few times. They're having a meeting in the hall to allow for social distancing, and then the staff will be on a rota after tomorrow.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 07:18 PM
I don't blame anyone for thinking similar RL.
Those numbers on their own don't mean much Adra.
Spoonsky
22-03-2020, 07:21 PM
America will be worse than anywhere in Europe because they're full of various types of crazy and also the social contract is extremely weak bordering on non-existent. All that fluff in the consitution isn't going to be very useful now.
Conversely, America will benefit from the level of social isolation which already exists in the country. On a weekend night when you're all in the Manchester pub infecting each other, we're in front of our TVs watching the NFL or Family Guy. Salt Lake City, where I am now, is the ideal place to isolate because we only ever travel by car anyways.
What will actually hurt America is the complete phobia of government intervention on the parts of about half the country. I think you're going to end up seeing some pretty big differences in numbers between states with Democratic governments and Republican ones. Florida for instance is absolutely fucked, sorry bruh.
Spoonsky
22-03-2020, 07:22 PM
Indeed. We simply can't do that in the West, we just don't work that way.
And if we don't want it and/or can't do it, then we need to accept that we're going to lose a lot of people.
If we're entering an age of global pandemics due to over population, shitty practices and ludicrously good transport links then it makes you question whether the West have got it right after all. Not saying I'd want to be in China, but somewhere like Japan or South Korea looks immediately more attractive than they once did. Sure they've had to do some wank things too though.
I'm curious, though - governmentally speaking, laying aside national stereotypes for a second, what are the practical differences between a Japan or South Korea and a Great Britain? Are they really that different?
Is it just that they have the stomach to actually enforce their actions?
Spikey M
22-03-2020, 07:29 PM
I'm curious, though - governmentally speaking, laying aside national stereotypes for a second, what are the practical differences between a Japan or South Korea and a Great Britain? Are they really that different?
Is it just that they have the stomach to actually enforce their actions?
Lol. Japan and South Korea have almost military cultures. You listen to those above you (be it age or rank) and do what you're fucking told. In Britain.... we don't. Pretty much the opposite. A Priminister hasn't been respected widely since World War II.
Spoonsky
22-03-2020, 07:31 PM
I get that - what I was asking about are the actual differences in government.
Spikey M
22-03-2020, 07:33 PM
I get that - what I was asking about are the actual differences in government.
Hard leadership vs Soft leadership. Even our Police govern by consent here.
Jimmy Floyd
22-03-2020, 07:33 PM
I'm curious, though - governmentally speaking, laying aside national stereotypes for a second, what are the practical differences between a Japan or South Korea and a Great Britain? Are they really that different?
Is it just that they have the stomach to actually enforce their actions?
It's cultural rather than political. In Japan/Korea EVERYTHING depends on how old you are. There's a different form of address to someone 1 year older than you than to someone 1 year younger than you (everyone is herded into year groups so all birthdays are 1 January).
Not doing as you're told by an elder (whether that be family, a public official or a work boss) is a serious faux pas at the best of times, let alone now. As such they don't even need to instil different political norms for this because the cultural basis is already there.
Here and in all western liberal cultures I'm aware of, it's every man for himself and you can't change that with elderly death statistics.
As much as I never really enjoy our Sunday trip to my in-laws, I was a bit disappointed that #socialdistancing meant we couldn’t go round today and witness this goatse card (https://www.thortful.com/card/5e67eb32af95f40001aeac38) displayed on the fireplace with pride.
I don't know.
I'm on the front line in paeds a lot of the time, but the kids aren't getting very sick with it (thank fucking Christ). We've had no confirmed cases in paeds so far (although we aren't testing many as very few of the suspected ones have been unwell enough to warrant admission). We will start getting confirmed cases soon though so I'm going to be exposed to it, and frankly it's pretty likely I've already seen a kid with it who just wasn't tested.
What I'm dreading is if adult front line services get over-run and we get pulled off paeds to help. I think we're about as protected as we can get as trainees in paeds because it's such a precious service so we'd probably be about last to be moved, but it could still happen. I fully accept that's a selfish attitude, and if I'm called I'll obviously go, but if I'm not I can't pretend I won't be incredibly relieved.
As non-clinical staff we’ve been asked to volunteer to talk to and feed patients (after training). On non-Covid wards, that is.
I haven’t filled the form in and to be honest I’m extremely reluctant to do anything that I perceive increases my own risk of getting it. I’m not keen really on being in the building at all. Which I appreciate is cowardly given that there are plenty who aren’t going to have any choice in the matter, but there you go.
randomlegend
22-03-2020, 07:40 PM
Idk if I'm a bit in denial in order to cope, but I'm not particularly scared of catching it myself. I've accepted I almost certainly will at some point. I am of an age and health status which means I'm extremely likely to be fine if I do get it and I can't do anything more to avoid it anyway so no point worrying.
Desperately trying to keep people on ventilators alive as the service is overwhelmed and starts to crumble is what I'm afraid of. I'd avoid saying these sorts of things in normal circumstances, but unless you've been there you really don't understand what it's like being a junior doctor in a situation you don't know how to cope with when there's nobody senior to take responsibility from you. It's terrifying.
Shindig
22-03-2020, 07:41 PM
Has there been any advice given to patients to prevent them winding up on a ventilator? Like breathing techniques to keep their oxygen levels up, etc?
In all honesty I’d not much fancy being the consultant either. It’s a terrifying thought.
Adramelch
22-03-2020, 07:42 PM
Yevrah: Yeah, I know I am grasping at straws, but I have to do something to spend my time.
So, I moved to Paris less than 2 weeks ago, I had my wallet stolen (thankfully I have my passport and my father has access to my greek account so was able to wire some money). I have opened a French bank account but I haven't gotten the card yet, so basically I am stranded here with a set amount of cash and I genuinely have no idea when/how I will be able to get the card. I don't even have my online banking credentials yet.
I am working from home (my job could be done from home exclusively anyway), but I haven't met any of my colleagues and I have basically only ever talked to my supervisor, and that's through Skype. I am staying at an Airbnb until April 7th. The plan was to look for a permanent place by that time, but with the current situation that's no longer possible so I'll have to look for another Airbnb.
To top all that off, I speak no French whatsoever, so if something happens to me, things will get weird.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-coronavirus-lockdown-cabinet-mutiny
That lockdown is imminent.
randomlegend
22-03-2020, 07:49 PM
In all honesty I’d not much fancy being the consultant either. It’s a terrifying thought.
Of course, just giving my perspective as a junior. The fear of someone dying who could have been saved because you didn't know what to do is awful.
Of course, just giving my perspective as a junior. The fear of someone dying who could have been saved because you didn't know what to do is awful.
Aye, I wasn’t meaning to diminish the point. I know a few respiratory consultants and the lack of (outward) panic is beyond me. I’m anxious about the whole thing and won’t be near a sick patient. Fuck knows how you mentally deal with knowing what’s about to hit.
Spikey M
22-03-2020, 07:56 PM
Yep. In a years time the US will be the story, we're talking tens of thousands dead minimum.
Here's a sentence I never thought I'd say: They're lucky Trump is President. Can you imagine Obama trying to implement lockdowns and restrict people's RIGHTS? the dey tuk der jerbs mob would be spitting in each others mouths just to spite him.
Shindig
22-03-2020, 07:58 PM
Obama had legislation put towards a Pandemic Plan. Trump scrapped it.
Spikey M
22-03-2020, 08:04 PM
Legislation is all well and good but he'd have had no chance in Red territory.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 08:12 PM
I'm curious, though - governmentally speaking, laying aside national stereotypes for a second, what are the practical differences between a Japan or South Korea and a Great Britain? Are they really that different?
Is it just that they have the stomach to actually enforce their actions?
You fuck around in China during a lockdown and this happens:
1241802131776176135
World's apart.
Appreciate it's a demo, but the fact that they're practising that sort of shit says it all.
Shindig
22-03-2020, 08:14 PM
That's some To Catch a Predator level response.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 08:17 PM
Quality.
Spikey M
22-03-2020, 08:18 PM
The net. :lol:
Raoul Duke
22-03-2020, 08:32 PM
That'll come in handy when they're invading somewhere
niko_cee
22-03-2020, 08:41 PM
As long as the enemy stops and gets out of their car so they can move the van in the way, rather than just driving through.
Boydy
22-03-2020, 08:43 PM
Anyone watching this programme on Channel 4 now?
Giggles
22-03-2020, 09:00 PM
Mackers is closing tomorrow.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 09:08 PM
40,000 waiting to be tested here and we’ll be set up to test 5,000 a day from tomorrow so there’s going to be a monster rise in confirmed cases over the next fortnight.
People are being such cunts though when you see videos of people on beaches and queueing for food the fuck knows where it’s going.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 09:11 PM
Fair play to McDonald's. Presumably they could have blagged it as a takeaway and carried on.
As the weekend has wore on and examples of idiocy have become more prevalent, I've questioned more and more whether it's morally right for any business that can't be classed as essential to continue trading.
SincereTheRebel
22-03-2020, 09:13 PM
Looking at the league table. Pakistan has 776 and Poland has 634 cases. In between them both, are Diamond Princess which is a cruise ship with 712 cases. It is being guaranteed in a Japenese port. 8 man have died onboard since early February :cab:
I never knew.
Disco
22-03-2020, 09:13 PM
1241770029982593026
Giggles
22-03-2020, 09:14 PM
For a bag of fucking chips. Any justice and they’d all catch it over anyone else.
1241782345205780483
SincereTheRebel
22-03-2020, 09:16 PM
For a bag of fucking chips. Any justice and they’d all catch it over anyone else.
1241782345205780483
Those chips must be top 5 in the world for the queue to be down the road or is it because all other outlets in the area are lock off?
1241770029982593026
Apparently it's South Africa.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 09:21 PM
Those chips must be top 5 in the world for the queue to be down the road or is it because all other outlets in the area are lock off?
It’s where you normally go when you visit the beach there. The twits being at the beach at all being a big enough issue without a pile of them gathering like that.
I went down to the chemist the other day to pick my prescription up and they're (understandably) operating a "one in, one out" policy in the actual building as it's only very small. But all it did was lead to a queue exactly like the one pictured at that chippy in the car park outside the doctors. Just a load of mostly very old people stood shoulder to shoulder chewing each others ears off. :face:
Magic
22-03-2020, 09:28 PM
Wait McDonalds is still fucking open. :|
Spoonsky
22-03-2020, 09:29 PM
You fuck around in China during a lockdown and this happens:
1241802131776176135
World's apart.
Appreciate it's a demo, but the fact that they're practising that sort of shit says it all.
:D
I was more asking about Japan and SK because they're democracies yet culturally more similar to China.
Spoonsky
22-03-2020, 09:30 PM
Wait McDonalds is still fucking open. :|
Half their regular customers will have underlying conditions so you'd think they'd be doing everything in their power to stop the virus.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 09:30 PM
I really want to know if those people in that queue all have four grand's worth of food in their house, got up at 6am this morning to get to Snowdonia and back, before rounding off the day by waiting eight hours for some fish and chips.
Apple/Samsung etc. will have all of the data and it needs to be published so we can work on eradicating idiocy in time for when a more serious pandemic hits.
Giggles
22-03-2020, 09:32 PM
Half their regular customers will have underlying conditions so you'd think they'd be doing everything in their power to stop the virus.
Luckily it doesn’t attack mental issues or 90% of their workforce would be in danger.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 09:32 PM
Wait McDonalds is still fucking open. :|
They'd closed all of the seating areas and just done takeaway and drive through, but they've now gone a step further and will shut entirely. I applaud that. Well, unless they have a good government source who has told them it's happening tomorrow night come what may.
Yevrah
22-03-2020, 09:33 PM
:D
I was more asking about Japan and SK because they're democracies yet culturally more similar to China.
Jim nailed it, they all put the state and society ahead of the individual. As has been seen here this weekend and before, we don't.
Jimmy Floyd
22-03-2020, 09:34 PM
I presume all these places will still open for delivery even in the dead of the lockdown? I got a Lebanese delivered last night (I'm not leaving the flat right now except to go to the office, lol) and it came quick as a flash. Gorgeous too.
If the only food I can get will be via death-defying state-sanctioned visits to mini-Tesco to fight Agnes and Mohammed for the last pack of Oxo cubes, I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy the pandemic very much.
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