Coronavirus Death Thread

[mugbull]

Those children are still in school.

Also on Lee’s point about schools re-opening in June, if it’s possible it’d be worthwhile. Transition visits (y6-7), open days, mock exams for y10/12, etc. Some people (not aimed at anyone) think term 6 is a piss about but if anything it’s often one of the busiest terms.

Oh they never got around to closing primary schools in the UK?

[Shindig]

The only students in are kids of key workers or have special needs.

[Spikey M]

Unless we're talking about 1 of the badly hit countries (Italy, Spain, France etc), what the rest of Europe is doing is fairly irrelevant since they just handled the virus much better to begin with.

Did they, or have they just kicked the inevitable down the road?

[Foe]

Fucking hot today up in northern Scotland, so it must be tropical in London.

Wish I had a garden.

[John Arne]

Surprised to see the skies still this busy.

https://gyazo.com/4725ec584ae6fc4cc3ace07aa04c2c75.jpeg

https://gyazo.com/da01ff49bc80ed55195e945a861f047e.jpeg

[Boydy]

Those children are still in school.

Also on Lee’s point about schools re-opening in June, if it’s possible it’d be worthwhile. Transition visits (y6-7), open days, mock exams for y10/12, etc. Some people (not aimed at anyone) think term 6 is a piss about but if anything it’s often one of the busiest terms.

Term 6?

In my day we only had three terms.

[Magic]

Fucking hot today up in northern Scotland, so it must be tropical in London.

Wish I had a garden.

Shite in Dundee.

[Spikey M]

Yes, but we're talking about the weather.

[Andy]

Fucking hot today up in northern Scotland, so it must be tropical in London.

Wish I had a garden.

Low twenties here. Its roasting.

[Spikey M]

It's been great all week here. Got a decent tan started.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Re more and less hit countries, pretty clear trend towards the bigger and more densely populated nations being worse hit. The more congested number of population centres and people you have to deal with, the harder it is.

Australia really well set as they have 6 centres with a desert the size of Mars between each one.

[mo]

Term 6?

In my day we only had three terms.

Term 6 is surely easy enough to deduce (and less faff to write out than they second half of term 3) though right?

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Michaelmas Term, in certain schools.

[Magic]

Sun burnt off the clouds. Glorious now.

[mo]

Oh they never got around to closing primary schools in the UK?

No those are “closed” as well, but you said about younger kids whose parents are off saving the world - well all those kids (including up 16 year olds) are being baby sat by schools currently (including the Easter holidays but not weekends)

[mugbull]

No those are “closed” as well, but you said about younger kids whose parents are off saving the world - well all those kids (including up 16 year olds) are being baby sat by schools currently (including the Easter holidays but not weekends)

That's smart.

[ScousePig]

I don't really get the idea of schools being one of the first things to reopen, should that be the case. It'll affect hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people.

I said it before but as soon as schools reopen, social distancing is no longer.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They'll open the schools (or at least nurseries and primaries first) because parents can't cope with the work from home / kids at home scenario.

[Boydy]

The Michaelmas Term, in certain schools.

Is that not the first term of the school year?

[Shindig]

917. Holding steady at another 5,200 positives.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Is that not the first term of the school year?

Correct. I was of course thinking of the 'Trinity Term' which I once saw in a posho place. Michaelmas is at the start.

[Waffdon]

917. Holding steady at another 5,200 positives.

Tory Britain :drool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'd love to hear an explanation from the twitter experts of what another government would be doing differently and how many deaths that would have prevented. In detail, that is: 'more testing', 'earlier lockdown' and such platitudes are not valid answers.

Seems like London and the hallowed south east are probably peaking now or have just peaked. Look out the north, you're next.

[Waffdon]

Dundee saved some 98 year old goon or something. We have the best hospital in Britain. We’re good x

[Lee]

Everywhere will peak at roughly the same time because the nationwide measures went in at the same time.

[Waffdon]

I'd love to hear an explanation from the twitter experts of what another government would be doing differently and how many deaths that would have prevented. In detail, that is: 'more testing', 'earlier lockdown' and such platitudes are not valid answers.

Seems like London and the hallowed south east are probably peaking now or have just peaked. Look out the north, you're next.

Allowing flights in from Spain, Italy and America with no checks is very smart.

[Spikey M]

It's probably also making fuck all real difference.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I can also guarantee you that if Jerry C or another Labour PM were presiding over this then, regardless of the number of deaths, you'd have the opposite narrative as Labour supporters would be defending them and Tories would be attacking them for not having done more.

It's just how lazy prejudices work.

[Adramelch]

I think the main two things a government could do different are how they funded the health system before coronavirus was even a thing and how they deal with the economic crisis aspect of it.

[niko_cee]

The Michaelmas Term, in certain schools.

Michaelmas is the Autumn term no, then Lent, then Trinity?

[Lewis]

We should move toward a German-style 'privatised' system.

[Spikey M]

Semi-final results.

https://gyazo.com/f8ae36ed0b5a92ed9f44a03d220f167e.jpeg
(brackets first leg scores)

https://gyazo.com/6b67058c4c81fe757d58a2f4fb70b679.jpeg

Meanwhile, in the final we all wanted, the BBC has this:


You may have read in the last half an hour that the US has now overtaken Italy to become the country with the most coronavirus-related deaths worldwide, according to Johns Hopkins University.

This does not yet appear to be the case.

It comes down to when figures are reported. As the figures from the US came in first, it seemed that the US had overtaken Italy with 18,860 confirmed deaths. But now new figures have come in from Italy - taking its number well above 19,000, although Johns Hopkins is yet to reflect that in its count.

All this is complicated further because not all the latest figures are in from the US - so be prepared for the possibility of the US overtaking Italy later on.

Of course, this is a tragedy for both countries.

End to end stuff.

[mugbull]

I love that last sentence

[Spikey M]

I love that it's not necessarily clear if the author considers it a tragedy for both countries due to the deaths themselves or the uncertainty of the competition.

[John Arne]

Corona Cup Final

https://gyazo.com/6caf0f61c6c8e37a06d10fa5b57e672d.jpeg

https://gyazo.com/89c5951e282ed1dad12f513cd7ae0670.jpeg

[Lewis]

Another defence Roberto Martinez can't organise.

[Lofty]

I can also guarantee you that if Jerry C or another Labour PM were presiding over this then, regardless of the number of deaths, you'd have the opposite narrative as Labour supporters would be defending them and Tories would be attacking them for not having done more.

It's just how lazy prejudices work.

The tabloids wouldnt be in near Diana levels of hysteria about his health.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They would. Think back to when Gordon or Tony Blair were PM, if they were taken into intensive care in the midst of a national crisis everyone would have shat the bed.

[Bernanke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI7sBsBHdCk&feature=emb_title

[Bam]

I'd love to hear an explanation from the twitter experts of what another government would be doing differently and how many deaths that would have prevented. In detail, that is: 'more testing', 'earlier lockdown' and such platitudes are not valid answers.

Seems like London and the hallowed south east are probably peaking now or have just peaked. Look out the north, you're next.


They are actually valid answers.

[Mellberg]

I can also guarantee you that if Jerry C or another Labour PM were presiding over this then, regardless of the number of deaths, you'd have the opposite narrative as Labour supporters would be defending them and Tories would be attacking them for not having done more.

It's just how lazy prejudices work.

I've tried to ignore party politics and think the government have done an okay job in difficult circumstances, but the press would be crucifying a Labour government (especially lead by Corbyn) for the same decisions the Tories have made. No doubt whatsoever.

[Lewis]

'The Labour Party is opposed to the coronavirus, and all other forms of virus...'

[Jimmy Floyd]

They are actually valid answers.

They aren't. How would you get hold of more tests, how would you roll them out, who would you test, etc etc. We're not just sitting on two million tests that we can't be bothered to use, are we? There is no detail in the coverage, it's just buzzwords and emotional screaming.

[Yevrah]

The tests thing is a nonsense to some degree.

What isn't is not locking down quickly enough. We pissed about for ages when it was clear as day what was coming, and actually, I blame SCIENCE just as much as the government on that one.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52258098

I hope he got a nice tan at least.

[Giggles]

Our Junior Cert has been cancelled altogether, though it’s irrelevant anyway, and the Leaving Cert pushed to later in the summer.

[Boydy]

They aren't. How would you get hold of more tests, how would you roll them out, who would you test, etc etc. We're not just sitting on two million tests that we can't be bothered to use, are we? There is no detail in the coverage, it's just buzzwords and emotional screaming.
You're asking for details that none of us are in a position to know. But it's the government's job to figure this shit out and they have access to the info that's needed to answer your questions. How are other countries managing it?

[Lofty]

One thing we could be doing better that other countries are doing is screening incoming flights properly. My idiot cousin had his internet wife from Alabama fly over two weeks ago, into Manchester, train to Barrow, then on her way home got a train to Euston and flew home from Gatwick.

[Spikey M]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52258098

I hope he got a nice tan at least.

He's an 18 year old Welsh bloke. He'll be Perma-Orange anyway.

[Spikey M]

One thing we could be doing better that other countries are doing is screening incoming flights properly. My idiot cousin had his internet wife from Alabama fly over two weeks ago, into Manchester, train to Barrow, then on her way home got a train to Euston and flew home from Gatwick.

I keep hearing this stuff, but how much difference do you think it actually makes?

[Lofty]

I keep hearing this stuff, but how much difference do you think it actually makes?

I think if we screened all arrivals at airports for fever (like they do at hospitals now, I was screened for an outpatient appointment last week) and made anyone failing to pass screening sign an agreement to self isolate for 14 days or face criminal proceedings as per the Isle of Man reportedly did to a guy flouting it would definitely have reduced spread.

Another thing the government fluffed was sport: no doubt whatsoever they were unwilling to cancel Cheltenham (as Barry Glendenning noted on Football Weekly, if it was foot and mouth they would have cancelled it immediately). Also remember the government didn't stop football, football stopped football when the likes of Arteta etc tested positive. A lot of the measures brought in were only brought in after companies and governing bodies had been forced to make decisions.

So I accept that it is a bad hand for any government to get and some stuff is inevitable and criticism will happen regardless but there are things that everyone here was scratching their heads about at the time.

[Spikey M]

But our plan needs spread to take place. Just at a rate that doesn't cripple the NHS and that's what's determining what we stop and what we don't. The odd muppet turning up with a dose of Covid on one of the massively reduced flights still arriving probably doesn't even register on the scale. It's gold for the press, because it sounds bad, but in reality...

[Waffdon]

These conferences are the most other pathetic and pointless things ever

[Lofty]

Our 'plan' that will see us surpass Italy and Spain's death toll this week?

[Lewis]

A pub in Southsea is doing two pound pints if you bring your own 'container' and ring the back doorbell. I feel like people round here should be getting all over that while it lasts.

[Spikey M]

Our 'plan' that will see us surpass Italy and Spain's death toll this week?

That's the one.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The only thing that has been noticeably different from us to anyone else was the week when everyone else was locking down and we were going on about herd immunity, but it still doesn't make sense to blame politicians for that, as they know fuck all about immunology and will have been taking advice from scientists who did. But blaming scientists is also stupid, because this is brand new and there isn't a consensus on it even now, let alone a month ago.

I just don't like blame culture in general, I don't think. It's not helpful. What is helpful is taking the best decision you believe is available to you today and tomorrow in the situation you are NOW in.

[Giggles]

The only thing that has been noticeably different from us to anyone else was the week when everyone else was locking down and we were going on about herd immunity, but it still doesn't make sense to blame politicians for that, as they know fuck all about immunology and will have been taking advice from scientists who did. But blaming scientists is also stupid, because this is brand new and there isn't a consensus on it even now, let alone a month ago.

I just don't like blame culture in general, I don't think. It's not helpful. What is helpful is taking the best decision you believe is available to you today and tomorrow in the situation you are NOW in.

It’s not brand new. Something something 0-0-10 4-4-2.

[Lewis]

When we're riding that second wave to Donsville as Spain loses half its remaining population we'll talk.

[Shindig]

We probably thought we were containing it well until a month ago. When we locked it down, we were at 54 deaths a day and they would've been fed information about bed and ward capacity. There was all this speculation at the time that we wouldn't be like Italy because our familial structures are different. Turns out that means very little and the deaths rose in a similar pattern.

[Lee]

Our daily deaths have been nowhere near Italy or Spain. The reporting is to cock.

[Yevrah]

Our daily deaths have been nowhere near Italy or Spain. The reporting is to cock.

It'll be the same all over the shop.

[Adramelch]

Our daily deaths have been nowhere near Italy or Spain. The reporting is to cock.

You're not reporting nursing home deaths either though are you?

[Lee]

It'll be the same all over the shop.

Not sure. Our health system hasn’t been overwhelmed anywhere in the way that Lombardy and Madrid were.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I also don't see how we're going to overtake Italy 'this week', as we're 9-10,000 behind them and so would have to register 1,500+ more than they do every day (we haven't even done that many in one day).

[Lee]

You're not reporting nursing home deaths either though are you?

We are but in different periods. And we are admitting patients to hospital from care homes because we’ve had capacity so the difference shouldn’t be too big unlike, say, France.

Italy and Spain weren’t routinely reporting care home deaths either though.

We’ll have a lot of death because we are a high population, high density country. We’ve managed it okay though.

[Lee]

I also don't see how we're going to overtake Italy 'this week', as we're 9-10,000 behind them and so would have to register 1,500+ more than they do every day (we haven't even done that many in one day).

Our biggest single day figure is just higher than 700 and this ought to be the peak week.

[Adramelch]

We are but in different periods. And we are admitting patients to hospital from care homes because we’ve had capacity so the difference shouldn’t be too big unlike, say, France.

Italy and Spain weren’t routinely reporting care home deaths either though.

We’ll have a lot of death because we are a high population, high density country. We’ve managed it okay though.

The reports I've seen all talk about hospital deaths. I do agree you won't get numbers like France cause the health system here was hit really hard (everything was basically at capacity from what I can gather), but I wouldn't be surprised if you get a couple thousand more.

[Yevrah]

Not sure. Our health system hasn’t been overwhelmed anywhere in the way that Lombardy and Madrid were.

Which presumably would have led to even less accurate reporting than we're experiencing.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I thought the PM's speech was really good, for what it's worth. Despite the voice being a bit ravaged, I haven't heard him sound that coherent in years.

[Spikey M]

The reports I've seen all talk about hospital deaths. I do agree you won't get numbers like France cause the health system here was hit really hard (everything was basically at capacity from what I can gather), but I wouldn't be surprised if you get a couple thousand more.

Unless there's a sudden drop we'll get far more than a couple of thousand more.

[Lee]

Which presumably would have led to even less accurate reporting than we're experiencing.

We don’t know as all countries will report differentLy. The way we report at the moment is only good for the running total, though. Daily deaths of 800/900 have been bollocks though. It hasn’t happened and if we are past/at the peak it may not happen at all.

[Giggles]

Someone needs to tell Yev it’s not a competition.

[7om]

What does your bell curve look like with the real numbers, Lee?

[Adramelch]

Unless there's a sudden drop we'll get far more than a couple of thousand more.

No, I meant an additional couple thousand from nursing homes that haven't been reported yet.

[Lee]

What does your bell curve look like with the real numbers, Lee?

It isn’t mine - it’s the actual numbers from the NHS by day. There is a lag because of the way deaths are reported. So of today’s 700-odd only 120 were actually in the last 24 hours. The rest are for previous days.

At the moment it looks possible that April 8th was the peak. But reporting over the Easter weekend will be shit so we probably won’t know until the end of the coming week. Numbers will plateau rather than just drop off so the actual peak day is up for grabs. It looks as though we are just about there though.

[7om]

It isn’t mine - it’s the actual numbers from the NHS by day. There is a lag because of the way deaths are reported. So of today’s 700-odd only 120 were actually in the last 24 hours. The rest are for previous days.

At the moment it looks possible that April 8th was the peak. But reporting over the Easter weekend will be shit so we probably won’t know until the end of the coming week. Numbers will plateau rather than just drop off so the actual peak day is up for grabs. It looks as though we are just about there though.

That's what I mean. What does the daily deaths graph look like with the real numbers? And also, why is there a set of numbers that the NHS knows and another set that are released to the public?

[Lee]

That's what I mean. What does the daily deaths graph look like with the real numbers? And also, why is there a set of numbers that the NHS knows and another set that are released to the public?

There’s no graph that I’ve seen. I mean there obviously will be but I’ve not put the numbers in Excel and had a look.

The NHS numbers are publicly available online and an update is tweeted daily reporting how many of the deaths reported are for the past 24 hours and for the dates before.

There are two problems. Lower numbers are less newsworthy than higher numbers. And it takes a few days for the past 24 hours numbers to be complete, which is shit for 24 hour news.

[Mazuuurk]

I thought the PM's speech was really good, for what it's worth. Despite the voice being a bit ravaged, I haven't heard him sound that coherent in years.

Quite funny how he was supposedly saved by nurses from Portugal and New Zeeland :)

[Bam]

Someone needs to tell Yev it’s not a competition.

Totally agree, he will try and find a negative out of any post. Might be time to put the spread sheet down, Yev.

[Shindig]

Quite funny how he was supposedly saved by nurses from Portugal and New Zeeland :)

Spoilers: Our NHS is an international effort.

[Mazuuurk]

Not for much longer, mate!

We'll take Luis here though, he's welcome here.

[Bam]

Not for much longer, mate!

We'll take Luis here though, he's welcome here.

What are you talking about???

[Spikey M]

What does your bell curve look like with the real numbers, Lee?

I don't think he's getting aroused by them?

[Andy]

The only thing that has been noticeably different from us to anyone else was the week when everyone else was locking down and we were going on about herd immunity, but it still doesn't make sense to blame politicians for that, as they know fuck all about immunology and will have been taking advice from scientists who did. But blaming scientists is also stupid, because this is brand new and there isn't a consensus on it even now, let alone a month ago.

I just don't like blame culture in general, I don't think. It's not helpful. What is helpful is taking the best decision you believe is available to you today and tomorrow in the situation you are NOW in.

How many other countries talked about herd immunity? It was just us right? That's what made me think it was a bad idea...

[Yevrah]

Totally agree, he will try and find a negative out of any post. Might be time to put the spread sheet down, Yev.

If we're not actually at 900 a day (which I fully accept we're not for the reasons detailed) then what's to say Spain and Italy ever where either. So if every country's reporting has lag, then for comparison purposes, it's fine to compare to countries to each other.

Appreciate this might be a difficult concept for you to grasp, but hopefully that helps.

[Shindig]

How many other countries talked about herd immunity? It was just us right? That's what made me think it was a bad idea...

The Netherlands are doing it. Which is why I can go to Amsterdam every morning from Newcastle Airport. They've closed schools and I assume they have some social distancing down somewhere.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm personally happy for the only measure of record to be what measures the government put in place as mitigation. Their experts know more than I do.

[phonics]

Didn’t you say like half a page up that you want REAL SUGGESTIONS from people?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I do if they're going to scream MURDER at the government.

[Mazuuurk]

What are you talking about???

Boris was Pro-brexit wasn't he. So we can take the portuguese nurses here, where they are welcome.

[Lewis]

You can have all of our thieving Romanians as well.

[Spikey M]

Boris was Pro-brexit wasn't he. So we can take the portuguese nurses here, where they are welcome.

Boris is pro-Boris. It was widely circulated, and possibly bullshit, that he had 2 articles written and ready to go in the Telegraph following the referendum. One for each outcome. Both contradicting each other.

[Lewis]

I bet his speech in case he died earlier would have been a belter. Settling all sorts of beef.

[Mazuuurk]

Just the nurses, cheers.

[Shindig]

I bet his speech in case he died earlier would have been a belter. Settling all sorts of beef.

"In three days time, Michael Gove will roll away the stone as I ascend to Heaven to see if I can sort out a trade deal."

[Jimmy Floyd]

I have seen quite a few 'He Has Risen!' tweets with Boris's head put onto religious imagery today, which are simultaneously weird and lol.

Fair fucks to him, for many of us he is the only person we 'know' whose suffering with the disease we have experienced in real time. All the screaming about PPE, do you think they're just sitting around going 'nah, fuck it, nurses don't need gloves'?

[Lofty]

From death's door to road to recovery tied nicely in with a major religious holiday, exquisite timing you have to hand it to him. When I had bog standard pnuemonia that I didnt go to hospital for I spent three days sleeping 95% of the time barely able to eat so kudos for him marathoning a load of films when ill enough to be in intensive care.

[randomlegend]

All the screaming about PPE, do you think they're just sitting around going 'nah, fuck it, nurses don't need gloves'?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/advice-on-protective-gear-for-nhs-staff-was-rejected-owing-to-cost

Pretty much, yes.

[Bam]

If we're not actually at 900 a day (which I fully accept we're not for the reasons detailed) then what's to say Spain and Italy ever where either. So if every country's reporting has lag, then for comparison purposes, it's fine to compare to countries to each other.

Appreciate this might be a difficult concept for you to grasp, but hopefully that helps.

You obversely don't like being called out on this. Carry on you queen.

[randomlegend]

obversely

????????????

[Bam]

????????????

Obviously, sorry.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/advice-on-protective-gear-for-nhs-staff-was-rejected-owing-to-cost

Pretty much, yes.

I don't doubt the pre-crisis governments were lining up to fry nurses' livers in garlic butter if it saved a few quid, but in terms of crisis governance now I haven't seen any evidence they've done much wrong in the PPE department. I am happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

[Lewis]

It's pretty staggering that far-fetched stockpiling decisions made three years ago should have been subject to any sort of 'economic assessment'. There should be manslaughter charges when this is all over.

[Lee]

I don't doubt the pre-crisis governments were lining up to fry nurses' livers in garlic butter if it saved a few quid, but in terms of crisis governance now I haven't seen any evidence they've done much wrong in the PPE department. I am happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

The delivery of kit has been pretty patchy. My place has plenty, I know others are really struggling.

[randomlegend]

It's pretty staggering that far-fetched stockpiling decisions made three years ago should have been subject to any sort of 'economic assessment'. There should be manslaughter charges when this is all over.

Yeah I'm sure trying to panic-produce it now is cheaper (something like this was absolutely inevitable to happen at some point so the argument you might be stockpiling stuff that was never used is a non-starter).

[Don]

I mean my tongue is firmly up the government's arse where this is concerned to date, and would obviously be singing from the same hymn sheet - the two hymns being 'Unprecedented' and 'Unforeseeable' - but I just rewatched Contagion the other day and you gotta say, every government who was caught surprised by this needs their Cineworld Unlimited membership revoked sharpish. South Korea and co didn't just magic up the technology and resources to defeat this, they prepared like everyone else should have been doing.

Also, day 33(?) Thought of the Day: If this shit happened in winter, the mental strain would have been even worse. Even though the pain of walking past some nice beer gardens is pretty traumatic in this weather, nature and exercise are literally the only things keeping me going.

[Yevrah]

You obversely don't like being called out on this. Carry on you queen.

Don't like being called out on what? If you can be arsed to engage with me rather than sniping like a weasel we can have a discussion.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The current highlight of my day is sunsets behind the park that my flat overlooks, though they've been slightly ruined now as the leaves are back on the trees so the silhouettes aren't quite as crisp against the orange light.

It's come to this.

[Lewis]

It probably is cheaper than throwing x hundred million quids worth of clobber away every year when the inevitable doesn't happen. Especially in that particular planning case, where they seem to have based their assumptions on more common, less persistent versions of the stuff (something which the THEY HAD AN EXERCISE cranks seem to miss).

[mugbull]

It's not cheaper when your country slides into massive economic depression when it does come

[Lewis]

Yes, shutting society down is all about conserving glove supplies. Good point.

[Spoonsky]

I mean my tongue is firmly up the government's arse where this is concerned to date, and would obviously be singing from the same hymn sheet - the two hymns being 'Unprecedented' and 'Unforeseeable' - but I just rewatched Contagion the other day and you gotta say, every government who was caught surprised by this needs their Cineworld Unlimited membership revoked sharpish. South Korea and co didn't just magic up the technology and resources to defeat this, they prepared like everyone else should have been doing.

Also, day 33(?) Thought of the Day: If this shit happened in winter, the mental strain would have been even worse. Even though the pain of walking past some nice beer gardens is pretty traumatic in this weather, nature and exercise are literally the only things keeping me going.

I said to my friend the other day, imagine this struck mid-November. Suicide rates would be sky-high.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I reckon it would go the other way as we'd have the summer as glorious beacon of promise to look forward to. As it is now we'll be released back into the abject misery that is late October.

[niko_cee]

Weather's been absolutely blinding since lockdown though, having rained solidly for about 5 months in the run up to it. It's been a godsend.

[Yevrah]

I'm with Jim. I'd much rather good weather when we got out.

[phonics]

You’re getting out in a July at worst. Chill out.

[niko_cee]

You'll be out for summer.

By which point it will be apparent that this 2 week spell of good weather was actually the summer, unfortunately.

[Yevrah]

You’re getting out in a July at worst. Chill out.

I didn't say we weren't.

[Don]

Couple of tasty daily counts in a row from our Chinese brothers. I don't know if it's just a result of shipping in a load of Covidites or whether it could be the start of a second wave but it's enough to give me a semi.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-52261055

People really are thick.

[Spikey M]

The delivery of kit has been pretty patchy. My place has plenty, I know others are really struggling.

Surely it's the job of the government to chuck a load of equipment at the NHS*. Assessing where it needs to be sent and arranging for it to be done has to be the job of someone internal, surely?

*even that's pushing it. Order your own shit.

[randomlegend]

It probably is cheaper than throwing x hundred million quids worth of clobber away every year when the inevitable doesn't happen. Especially in that particular planning case, where they seem to have based their assumptions on more common, less persistent versions of the stuff (something which the THEY HAD AN EXERCISE cranks seem to miss).

Things like the visors (which are the thing they refused to stockpile) wouldn't need throwing away every year.

[randomlegend]

The only reason it might be cheaper is because people have started 3D printing stuff and donating it. Another Cummings masterclass I presume. You and Jimmy really are boring fangirls when it comes to the Tory's.

[niko_cee]

In a world of finite resources doesn't stockpiling something on the never never mean you don't have something else (like a £30 loaf of gluten free bread) you might need at any given time? As an ill-informed and relatively uninterested onlooker NHS procurement seems to be complete clusterfuck [by which I mean all over the shop, ie some good some bad rather than it being universally rubbish], but then that's probably true of all governments and/or large organisations. What would the costs associated with acquiring and storing sufficient levels of things like masks/visors be (which I assume have little use in more normal times) at the levels now needed? How many years can you reasonably keep that up before a penny pinching government, or activist group who wants a particular drug funded starts asking awkward questions? I doubt you could actually maintain the levels of necessary contingency planning for more than a couple of years, so you'd need to time it right to coincide with need, which is impossible.

On the flipside, maybe it'd be a good idea to have contingency plans for rapid acquisition of such things that could be put in place, and perhaps should have been earlier in the year (I assume such plans must exist to some extent).

[mugbull]

Yes, shutting society down is all about conserving glove supplies. Good point.

What? Shutting down is to protect hospital workers from getting overwhelmed, so when staff numbers are down 30% on what they would be if they had ample supplies because everyone’s sick...

[niko_cee]

I guess you don't need the PPE once all of the staff have had it, whilst they are off sick, or are dead.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The only reason it might be cheaper is because people have started 3D printing stuff and donating it. Another Cummings masterclass I presume. You and Jimmy really are boring fangirls when it comes to the Tory's.

It's not Tory fanboyism, I don't really care who the government is and I'm sure they've made mistakes. For my part at least it's a reflex against politicised blame culture. Most bad things aren't the government's fault, regardless of which party is in.

[randomlegend]

The government asking for advice from experts on what to do then ignoring said advice and now there's the exact problem which was foreseen as a direct result of the government ignoring that advice is not the government's fault.

Ok.

[randomlegend]

Matt Hancock doubling down on saying staff are "over-using" PPE is a disgrace. Saying people should only use stuff in line with guidelines; guidelines which conveniently changed as soon as it became clear there was a lack of PPE (we were initially told full PPE for all covid positive patients, which suddenly changed to full PPE only for aerosol generating procedures even with confirmed cases when respirator masks were in short supply).

I wonder if he'd be happy for his own family to be up close to a confirmed case with only a surgical mask, gloves and an apron barely more substantial than cling film.

[Boydy]

It's not Tory fanboyism, I don't really care who the government is and I'm sure they've made mistakes. For my part at least it's a reflex against politicised blame culture. Most bad things aren't the government's fault, regardless of which party is in.

Coming from the man who blames Tony Blair for everything going to shit.

[Lewis]

What? Shutting down is to protect hospital workers from getting overwhelmed, so when staff numbers are down 30% on what they would be if they had ample supplies because everyone’s sick...

If they had full staffing levels they could be processing people at such a rate that we could all just be back at work and in the pub? Presumably not, given that 1) the health service is still nowhere near being swamped; and 2) they seem to be working around the equipment issue.

[randomlegend]

"Working around" = wearing less than ideal amounts or quality of PPE and accepting the risks.

[Shindig]

Almost every country shat the bed on this but that's no excuse. There must've been a daft misconception amongst the experts that thought this would burn itself out in China.

[Lewis]

Yeah, working around. Accepting something at risk. The same reason we don't have eight ballistic missile submarines, or why my workplace hasn't bothered to upgrade past Windows 7


The government asking for advice from experts on what to do then ignoring said advice and now there's the exact problem which was foreseen as a direct result of the government ignoring that advice is not the government's fault.

Ok.

They weren't 'ignoring' the advice. Short of having no budget ceiling for this stuff something was always going to be lacking, and it was decided that masks were less cost effective than other things ('evidence around the incremental benefits of wearing eye protection'). If your criticism is that literally every official request was never met then fair enough; but you will be arguing for doubling every government budget to meet similar proposals across the board (twelve destroyers please). Unless you want to make the case that this stuff should always have been prioritised, but building on what niko put, I don't recall any great movement to increase spending on pandemic supplies until this month over every other area of health provision (previous stockpile news items have tended to focus on flu vaccines, and when the government bought a load of those for the swine flu pandemic that never arrived the Guardian hammered them for believing fear-mongering pharmaceutical companies). If you had been asked three months ago whether to fund some twat's treatment of buy another shelf of masks, what would you have said?

[niko_cee]

The answer to your final question is always 'both'.

It's why doctors never take aim at the time-wasting twats who clog up the system in normal times.

Ah, you might think it's a waste of time, but Mrs Miggins might not have talked to anyone for a week, so . . .

We don't want to tell people not to go to their GP etc.

[randomlegend]

Yeah, working around. Accepting something at risk. The same reason we don't have eight ballistic missile submarines, or why my workplace hasn't bothered to upgrade past Windows 7


That's evidently not remotely the same and you know it isn't. This is more akin to asking soldiers to go into an active combat zone with a BB gun and a saucepan on their head because we didn't buy any guns or helmets.

This is not a case of not meeting every proposal. This scenario was literally inevitable. Stockpiling some cheap, long-lasting plastic visors to be prepared is not the same as spending a few hundred billion on battleships.

It's not like you have to stockpile an endless supply either, just enough that you don't run out in the time it takes to sort out production and supply. Note I'm not complaining about us not stockpiling thousands of ventilators, because that's clearly not feasible.

[Waffdon]

Go on RL. Proud of you, sister x

[Mellberg]

Lewis and Jimmy are chatting bollocks and they know it.

I was praising Johnson and Sunak yesterday for their reaction, a few missteps aside, which can be just about forgiven in difficult and highly pressurised circumstances. As far as prevention goes, it's not good enough and those decisions have resulted in an unquantifiable amount of people dying. The reason Tories are on the defensive and talking about battleships (lol), is because if the NARRATIVE were to turn and they were deemed responsible, that'd be it at the next general election and probably for at least a decade. See: Trump, Donald.

[randomlegend]

The answer to your final question is always 'both'.

It's why doctors never take aim at the time-wasting twats who clog up the system in normal times.

Ah, you might think it's a waste of time, but Mrs Miggins might not have talked to anyone for a week, so . . .

We don't want to tell people not to go to their GP etc.

I'd bet GP appointments like that save money by avoiding unnecessary hospital attendances (which in vulnerable elderly people turn into month long stays with pneumonias they got because they came to hospital and then into residential care because they dropped their baseline dramatically from the period of illness and can no longer cope at home etc. Etc. Etc.)

[phonics]

It’s amazing how people hate blame culture the moment people they like are to blame.

[Don]

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2020/apr/13/smart-lifts-lonely-workers-no-towers-architecture-after-covid-19-coronavirus#img-1

Some interesting points touched on. The possible death of the open-office, the scourge of tourism and density and the likely fact nothing will come ofany of it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Lewis and Jimmy are chatting bollocks and they know it.

I was praising Johnson and Sunak yesterday for their reaction, a few missteps aside, which can be just about forgiven in difficult and highly pressurised circumstances. As far as prevention goes, it's not good enough and those decisions have resulted in an unquantifiable amount of people dying. The reason Tories are on the defensive and talking about battleships (lol), is because if the NARRATIVE were to turn and they were deemed responsible, that'd be it at the next general election and probably for at least a decade. See: Trump, Donald.

My point is very specifically about the crisis governance being fine and not the issue. I don't pretend to know about long term preparedness for pandemics.

People are too lazy to read with any precision before making glib comments.

[Mellberg]

My point is very specifically about the crisis governance being fine and not the issue. I don't pretend to know about long term preparedness for pandemics.

People are too lazy to read with any precision before making glib comments.

TBF you are making a different point, but it's still a case of highlighting what they're doing relatively well (crisis management) and ignoring what they've done badly (being prepared). It's not pretending, there's an article on this page of the thread and it's consistent with how austerity driven Tory governments conduct policy. If evidence comes out that they were acting with this possibility in mind before the outbreak then I'm happy to reconsider.

Having said that, there were different people at the wheel and you can't hold Johnson himself responsible, so he gets a fresh slate, and he's doing quite well (nearly dying probably helps). I don't like dipping into party politics myself at the minute, as don't agree with governments being held accountable for international problems, and neither does Gordon Brown, but it's difficult to ignore the PPE situation. We should've been in a better position. Prevention over reaction and all that.

[Lewis]

That's evidently not remotely the same and you know it isn't. This is more akin to asking soldiers to go into an active combat zone with a BB gun and a saucepan on their head because we didn't buy any guns or helmets.

This is not a case of not meeting every proposal. This scenario was literally inevitable. Stockpiling some cheap, long-lasting plastic visors to be prepared is not the same as spending a few hundred billion on battleships.

It's not like you have to stockpile an endless supply either, just enough that you don't run out in the time it takes to sort out production and supply. Note I'm not complaining about us not stockpiling thousands of ventilators, because that's clearly not feasible.

It is the same, although a better comparison would be like asking soldiers to get blown to pieces in Land Rover Defenders all over Iraq for however many years because they needed the money to double health spending. It is all worked out on bullshit assumptions and dubious costings, whether it's nuclear deterrence or bin collections, and someone somewhere has decided that masks weren't worth springing for because it would have 'increase[d] the cost of the PPE component of the pandemic stockpile four-to six-fold, with a very low likelihood of cost-benefit based on standard thresholds'. And it won't have been some politician making that decision unilaterally. It would have been batted back to the experts and they would have given up masks to keep the rest of the stuff that they assumed would have been better value because even your life as a doctor has a number on it, and it probably doesn't exceed the cost of a million masks.

It says in that article that Jeremy Hunt was securing general spending increases in the background of these assessments, so it doesn't appear to have been for a general lack of money. They just wanted to spend it elsewhere, and who, for all that this was literally inevitable, was advocating stockpiling at the time?

[Jimmy Floyd]

TBF you are making a different point, but it's still a case of highlighting what they're doing relatively well (crisis management) and ignoring what they've done badly (being prepared). It's not pretending, there's an article on this page of the thread and it's consistent with how austerity driven Tory governments conduct policy. If evidence comes out that they were acting with this possibility in mind before the outbreak then I'm happy to reconsider.

Having said that, there were different people at the wheel and you can't hold Johnson himself responsible, so he gets a fresh slate, and he's doing quite well (nearly dying probably helps). I don't like dipping into party politics myself at the minute, as don't agree with governments being held accountable for international problems, and neither does Gordon Brown, but it's difficult to ignore the PPE situation. We should've been in a better position. Prevention over reaction and all that.

The financial crisis is probably an apt comparison in some ways. Brown's Labour government did a decent job of fending off the worst of an international crisis that they did not create, but they were poorly prepared in the long run after years of assuming it would never happen.

[mugbull]

If they had full staffing levels they could be processing people at such a rate that we could all just be back at work and in the pub? Presumably not, given that 1) the health service is still nowhere near being swamped; and 2) they seem to be working around the equipment issue.

You're on the thicker side, aren't you? In what world would having a good number fewer active doctors/nurses not prolong and worsen this crisis? Jesus Christ

[Don]

That's what we want to see, less word count more insults.

Oi, Giggles, your dad shaves his legs, you cunt.

[bruhnaldo]

I know, right? There's nothing worse than reading these long ass fuckin diatribes looking for gold and leaving empty handed.

[phonics]

The financial crisis is probably an apt comparison in some ways. Brown's Labour government did a decent job of fending off the worst of an international crisis that they did not create, but they were poorly prepared in the long run after years of assuming it would never happen.

Still not going to forgive Brown for selling off our entire gold reserves just to save Goldman Sachs from collapsing.

[Lewis]

You're on the thicker side, aren't you? In what world would having a good number fewer active doctors/nurses not prolong and worsen this crisis? Jesus Christ

Your first post said 'It's not cheaper when your country slides into massive economic depression when it does come'; or, that it was a choice between all of the doctors having their masks and us cracking on as normal, or not having them and us having to shut the entire country down to manage the burden on hospitals. Which it isn't, is it, you nause.

[bruhnaldo]

Nause, oo that's new.

[Spikey M]

Not to the Brummie contingent.

[Disco]

The cockerneys use it as well don't they?

[Mellberg]

Nause :cool:

[randomlegend]

Your argument boils down to "if the government decided not to do it they were definitely right because it is".

You can counter any spending argument ever with your vague generalities and the only logical conclusion is you think they are infallible and above reproach.

[Spikey M]

Nause is a better insult than you've come up with though, so take your L.

[mo]

Literally never heard of Nause before. What does it mean?

[Mellberg]

Annoying, you nause.

[Lewis]

Your argument boils down to "if the government decided not to do it they were definitely right because it is".

You can counter any spending argument ever with your vague generalities and the only logical conclusion is you think they are infallible and above reproach.

It isn't. It's that the government had valid reasons for doing x, which absolutely nobody bothered disputing at the time (including those experts involved in the actual policy-making process), so claiming now that they fucked it all up is stupid and would fail as any basic historical assessment. When did you first ask your hospital how they were preparing for it, given that it was 'literally inevitable'? Where I work I would be responsible for overlooking a security breach that I knew was coming, even though we [pretend to] have a unit security officer, so presumably you were all asking questions months, if not years ago.

[randomlegend]

It isn't. It's that the government had valid reasons for doing x, which absolutely nobody bothered disputing at the time (including those experts involved in the actual policy-making process), so claiming now that they fucked it all up is stupid and would fail as any basic historical assessment. When did you first ask your hospital how they were preparing for it, given that it was 'literally inevitable'? Where I work I would be responsible for overlooking a security breach that I knew was coming, so presumably you were all asking questions months, if not years ago.

Surprisingly enough, pandemic preparation for a large hospital is not the responsibility of a jobbing junior doctor. In the same way you won't be asking the checkout assistant at your local Sainsbury's why their pandemic preparations have left them unable to keep yeast on the shelves. Again, you already know this and are just posting nonsense to make up the word count.

"Valid reasons". What? The experts involved said we needed visors and revised their proposal only when they were told they weren't getting them. What else can they do?

[Spikey M]

Surprisingly enough, pandemic preparation for a large hospital is not the responsibility of a jobbing junior doctor. In the same way you won't be asking the checkout assistant at your local Sainsbury's why their pandemic preparations have left them unable to keep yeast on the shelves. Again, you already know this and are just posting nonsense to make up the word count.

"Valid reasons". What? The experts involved said we needed visors and revised their proposal only when they were told they weren't getting them. What else can they do?

As a former Tesco employee and husband of a Supermarket employee, I can absolutely guarantee that the checkout staff are dealing with those questions. Multiple times per hour.

[randomlegend]

As a former Tesco employee and husband of a Supermarket employee, I can absolutely guarantee that the checkout staff are dealing with those questions. Multiple times per hour.

Probably from Lewis.

[Shindig]

Whenever there's a grievance, it's the first port of call, not the best port of call they'll scream at.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seUY-BqZF5w

That's better than clapping.

[Lee]

I can only talk for the places I’ve worked in but all of them have pandemic plans. I did some work on ours last summer and it’s largely ICU-based and is pretty much what we are using now, although we’ve had to turn over more wards to this than we’d expected. It does outline some basics in terms of kit required and we look okay. Good job too, as we are the worst hit Trust in our region.

Other Trusts seeing fewer seriously ill Covid patients are struggling. I think it’s likely to end up being the case that local procurement of stuff has caused the most problems rather than a national lack of equipment, but it’s too early to be certain.

[Lewis]

It's more comparable to my situation than your supermarket comparison. I work with classified government material, the access to which is controlled partly on the basis that losing it could put lives at risk. We have a unit security officer and a line management chain, but if I think something puts the material at risk, I am expected to raise it, even where it conflicts with the management if only to put it on record and absolve myself of any responsibility should security be compromised.

I'm not saying you had to plan their pandemic response out for them. But surely you would have wanted to know, given that you could see this coming down the line? Alternatively, you could have bought your own stash of masks for when the day came. Unless you didn't think it was all that likely to be happening any time soon. And besides, face masks apparently aren't the most cost-effective measure you could have spent your money on. It would have increased the cost of your provisions four or six times. I'll stick some gloves under the cupboard and buy a gaming mouse. It's all wisdom after the event.

As for the experts. There will have been numerous ways for them to make any criticisms they had known, both officially and unofficially. Maybe they did. Maybe they told the newspapers, but they never considered reporting it to be worthwhile. Who knows? They could have all resigned, being medically-trained professionals, rather than being complicit in the decisions made. But they didn't.

[Waffdon]

Fucking hell. Bring back Yev panicking and claiming he has Coronavirus.

[mugbull]

Your first post said 'It's not cheaper when your country slides into massive economic depression when it does come'; or, that it was a choice between all of the doctors having their masks and us cracking on as normal, or not having them and us having to shut the entire country down to manage the burden on hospitals. Which it isn't, is it, you nause.

Nothing in that post had me claiming that coronavirus would have been super chill if only the doctors had had masks. But it's funny that you always seem to point to vague general equilibrium effects to castigate whichever re you don't like, but then completely ignore them when it's suitable to your argument. As everyone else in this thread has been saying, basically

[Waffdon]

The tag team of Mok and RL that nobody seen coming but has somehow taken down the staunch Lewis/Jimmy. It’s RVD and Kane all over again.

[Lewis]

Nothing in that post had me claiming that coronavirus would have been super chill if only the doctors had had masks. But it's funny that you always seem to point to vague general equilibrium effects to castigate whichever re you don't like, but then completely ignore them when it's suitable to your argument. As everyone else in this thread has been saying, basically

It was the clear implication of using it as a direct comparison. You should probably write a bit more clearly when you want to make a point, even if it means temporarily ditching your pretend disinterest.

[mugbull]

It was the clear implication of using it as a direct comparison. You should probably write a bit more clearly when you want to make a point, even if it means temporarily ditching your pretend disinterest.

Your beliefs are as predictable as a nun's period, it's difficult to be interested in what you have to say

[Don]

Hey, Bam, tell the missus to make her mac and cheese, I'll be round for 7 tonight.

[phonics]

Definition of 'on the ropes' from Lewis here.

[Lewis]

Your beliefs are as predictable as a nun's period, it's difficult to be interested in what you have to say

This is how you know it's only pretend.

[Spikey M]

I am enjoying Lewis comparing his job to a Dr treating a potentially dangerous disease. I bet you've got Windows 10 in your Easter Egg filled Office, Dr Legend, you cunt.

[7om]

I want to know what state secrets Lewis has been entrusted with.

[Lewis]

The Database.

[phonics]

I am enjoying Lewis comparing his job to a Dr treating a potentially dangerous disease. I bet you've got Windows 10 in your Easter Egg filled Office, Dr Legend, you cunt.

Tbf to Lewis, he's always considered himself the most important person in the room even when he was a jobless nobody in Hull with a dog that barely cared for his existence. Imagine what he's like now someones given him a security clearance.

[randomlegend]

It's more comparable to my situation than your supermarket comparison. I work with classified government material, the access to which is controlled partly on the basis that losing it could put lives at risk. We have a unit security officer and a line management chain, but if I think something puts the material at risk, I am expected to raise it, even where it conflicts with the management if only to put it on record and absolve myself of any responsibility should security be compromised.



Oh come on. If I see we're doing something that means patient data is potentially at risk, then obviously I'd raise it. That's entirely different from planning for a large scale emergency. The fact that something like this was inevitable doesn't mean I worried or thought about it day to day. It's inevitable there'll be any number of large scale emergencies involving this hospital at some point.

My supermarket comparison is completely apt.

[randomlegend]

I am enjoying Lewis comparing his job to a Dr treating a potentially dangerous disease. I bet you've got Windows 10 in your Easter Egg filled Office, Dr Legend, you cunt.

Mate most of our computers run out of ram and crash if you open a second tab on internet explorer. That's not an exaggeration.

[Lewis]

Oh come on. If I see we're doing something that means patient data is potentially at risk, then obviously I'd raise it. That's entirely different from planning for a large scale emergency. The fact that something like this was inevitable doesn't mean I worried or thought about it day to day. It's inevitable there'll be any number of large scale emergencies involving this hospital at some point.

My supermarket comparison is completely apt.

There you go. There is only so much money to go round, and with any number of large-scale emergencies to plan for...

[Spikey M]

America on that chart. Oof.

[randomlegend]

There you go. There is only so much money to go round, and with any number of large-scale emergencies to plan for...

You can keep on like this all you like, but what your argument boils down to is "the fact the government did it means it was the right thing to do". I'm glad you have such blind faith.

[Don]

Witty finally said it's total deaths that will be the key figure and none of this Covid shit being charted. Give it two more weeks and John Arne's charts will be the gold standard. Speaking of which, the latest week's data will be released tomorrow so update when you can, you glorious bastard.

[Lewis]

It's more an appreciation of how these things are actually decided in the first place. I'm consistently sceptical of government management of anything, but in this case I don't recall anyone banging the drum for more stockpiling (even the people who wanted the masks don't seem to have pushed beyond initial best case, blank cheque recommendations), so criticism of that effort is just betting after the event. Who did have it all ready to go? Nobody, if the worldwide rush to acquire it is anything to go by. How well they're doing now getting what there is out there, by all means hammer that. I haven't read much about it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was being ballsed up like the loans scheme sounds like it is being.

[bruhnaldo]

America on that chart. Oof.

Am i missing a chart on mine?

[Spikey M]

Am i missing a chart on mine?

It was on our national update, but it was basically this:

1249476102772457475?s=19

That is not a trajectory that ends well.

[phonics]

That China one is hilarious, like they just decided that everyone was too busy so they could just lie.

edit: Thought I'd do a quick check up on Switzerland numbers. We haven't bothered to update it since last week as pandemic or not, no Swiss person will work a public holiday.

[bruhnaldo]

And here I thought we hit the curve but I guess whatever tweet I saw in passing was a lie or whatever. Sigh.

[Shindig]

New York's peaking but you have 49 other states to count.

[Spoonsky]

And here I thought we hit the curve but I guess whatever tweet I saw in passing was a lie or whatever. Sigh.

http://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

All you need baby.

[Spikey M]

That China one is hilarious, like they just decided that everyone was too busy so they could just lie.

edit: Thought I'd do a quick check up on Switzerland numbers. We haven't bothered to update it since last week as pandemic or not, no Swiss person will work a public holiday.

Russia must be properly fucked to have suddenly come out with their numbers today. I bet they're nowhere near the true numbers, but I can only imagine that they've suddenly shat a brick over the scale of it all and decided they had better put some numbers on the table because they're going to need some help.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That y axis gives me the cold sweats.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Russia must be properly fucked to have suddenly come out with their numbers today. I bet they're nowhere near the true numbers, but I can only imagine that they've suddenly shat a brick over the scale of it all and decided they had better put some numbers on the table because they're going to need some help.

Not a chance any non-democracy is putting out true numbers. Why would they when lighter numbers make the given regime look better?

[Spikey M]

Not a chance any non-democracy is putting out true numbers. Why would they when lighter numbers make the given regime look better?

I get that, but they have suddenly announced today (unless I've just been missing them) that shit is getting pretty grim there. Why open up about it now?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-52271492

[Jimmy Floyd]

I get that, but they have suddenly announced today (unless I've just been missing them) that shit is getting pretty grim there. Why open up about it now?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-52271492

So as not to stretch credibility, and/or because they are going to need help soon and lying won't bring them any.

[bruhnaldo]

http://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

All you need baby.

This makes it seem like we're smashing it? Or am I reading this backwards?

[Spoonsky]

That y axis gives me the cold sweats.

I'd love to see numbers for 'Europe' as a whole, I wonder how they'd compare to the US.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Speaking of credibility, god bless the Flat Line of Tehran and all who sail in her.

[Spikey M]

So as not to stretch credibility, and/or because they are going to need help soon and lying won't bring them any.

That's what I said and now I'm not sure if we're arguing and if we are why we are... I... yeah.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We're not arguing. I didn't quote your post to disagree, just to add a comment on the back of its contents.

[Spikey M]

Yeah, well, fuck you too mate.

[bruhnaldo]

Why did Iran stop calling themselves Persia by the way.

Persia sounds so much harder than "IRAN".

Persia sounds like a place I'd want to visit.

IRAN sounds like it's had the same creepy 80s moustache since Miami Vice because they're afraid it's more of their identity than any of lack of personality they have.

[Giggles]

Why did Iran stop calling themselves Persia by the way.

Persia sounds so much harder than "IRAN".

Persia sounds like a place I'd want to visit.

IRAN sounds like it's had the same creepy 80s moustache since Miami Vice because they're afraid it's more of their identity than any of lack of personality they have.

You really don’t want to visit it, so Iran probably does fit best.

[bruhnaldo]

Dude I've seen some "Persian" chicks on instagram and idk man!

[Spoonsky]

I'd love to see numbers for 'Europe' as a whole, I wonder how they'd compare to the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_the_European_Union

74,671 deaths in the EU + UK, from a population of roughly 512 million, up to today. Meanwhile the US is projected to have 61,000 deaths total, from a population of 330 million. It looks like when things shake out the numbers will be worse in Europe, death per capita wise.

[Giggles]

Dude I've seen some "Persian" chicks on instagram and idk man!

They all want to reduce you to parts though.

[Spoonsky]

They all want to reduce you to parts though.

Bruh would let them as well.

[bruhnaldo]

Bruh would let them as well.

Fuck it, I've lived a good life.

[Don]

Belfast is fucking quality and one of my favourite places so I'm fucking glad Giggles is from the arse-end of that gaff.

[phonics]

Just been outside smoking a fag because the border lockdown means that weed has got so bad that I refuse to buy it.

There's bees left and right just flying into a hole in the bricks so that's something to look forward to.

[Shindig]

I mean, smoke will disorient them. Blow some into the hole and have some fun with that.

[bruhnaldo]

Fuck bees, fam.

[Giggles]

Belfast is fucking quality and one of my favourite places so I'm fucking glad Giggles is from the arse-end of that gaff.

What? I know you’re not back here that long but in what reality did you think I was British you suicide bombing twat?

[Spikey M]

Drugs are poison, Bee stings are poison, maybe it's the solution to the rush you've been chasing.

[phonics]

Sorry, did the Irish bloke just accuse someone else of loving to bomb people.

[Spoonsky]

:D

[Giggles]

Sorry, did the Irish bloke just accuse someone else of a loving to bomb people.

Yeah. We had reasons as opposed to just wanting to wipe anyone pale out. Your lot weren’t adverse to planting a few yourselves anyway.

[Lewis]

Irish? How come he speaks English? :cab:

[Spoonsky]

I just realized I've been needlessly typing 'dots' after that smiley for five years.

dots

[Don]

Ooof.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/2f/df/8e2fdf2d7561c7cb88555f100b014600.gif

EDIT: fuck off out the way people, that was to Paddy O'Toole's original seethe.

[Giggles]

Irish? How come he speaks English? :cab:

Because of you lot. You’re a very poor historian if you didn’t know that much.

[niko_cee]

Still need to dots if you're going for solo marti pellow.

[Spoonsky]

Still need to dots if you're going for solo marti pellow.

Either there's a reference that went way over my head or you've had a stroke at the end of the post.

[Giggles]

I just realized I've been needlessly typing 'dots' after that smiley for five years.

dots

You still need to if the smiley needs only capital letters.

EDIT: Maybe someone fixed that recently.

[bruhnaldo]

solo marti pillow man what

[niko_cee]

Either there's a reference that went way over my head or you've had a stroke at the end of the post.

This one > :D

Yeah, the reference is old old old.

[Mellberg]

Speaking of credibility, god bless the Flat Line of Tehran and all who sail in her.

To bodge their figures they just stick all their sick in a plane and shoot it down.

[phonics]

Yeah. We had reasons as opposed to just wanting to wipe anyone pale out. Your lot weren’t adverse to planting a few yourselves anyway.

Just say ‘sorry for being a massive racist’ you old fart.

[Giggles]

Just say ‘sorry for being a massive racist’ you old fart.

Just me?

[Don]

Nah, the potanto muncher PM'd me an apology with a pic of his wife's shotgun wound flappin about as compensation so stand down, mods.

[Giggles]

Nah, the potanto muncher PM'd me an apology with a pic of his wife's shotgun wound flappin about as compensation so stand down, mods.

Sorry that was meant from Bruh my little hirabist.

[Boydy]

Lewis, your work really needs to upgrade from Windows 7.

[7om]

Taz :D

[bruhnaldo]

Sorry that was meant from Bruh my little hirabist.

what?

[Adramelch]

French lockdown extended for another 4 weeks. Schools to start gradually opening after that and bars/restaurants/cinemas etc to remain closed unti late July presumably.

[Yevrah]

Has our lockdown officially been extended yet?

I've ignored news for the last couple of days in favour of starting 24 and Fallout 4 again, which has been bliss.

[phonics]

If anyone cared, here's where I'm at.

1249772649321988096
1249774465065447429

[phonics]

I'm also listening to Linkin Park. Two weeks behind Italy? This is where you lot will be in two weeks.

[Boydy]

No one wants to follow you.

[Magic]

Lol remember when phonics banned me for calling him by his name.

[Spikey M]

I mean, it is a stupid name but that's not your fault.

[phonics]

My name doesn't appear there and I've since got clearance.

I just couldn't be bothered to write the post twice.

[Don]

I got near 200 likes on a tweet a few days ago and I felt so mighty. I also slipped into some 20 year-old actresses IG DMs to ask if she was Iranian and she fucking loved it. At this rate I'll have a snapchat and TikTok by next week.

[bruhnaldo]

All I've taken from this is you're the type to RT yourself and gross, bro, gross.

Edit: Move you fuckin' nause!

[bruhnaldo]

Sidenote, though, ask if she also prefers "Persia" to "IRAN".

[phonics]

All I've taken from this is you're the type to RT yourself and gross, bro, gross.

Edit: Move you fuckin' nause!

Post your analytics.twitter.com and I'll post mine.

[bruhnaldo]

Post your analytics.twitter.com and I'll post mine.

Post my fuckin what?

[Kikó]

Has our lockdown officially been extended yet?

I've ignored news for the last couple of days in favour of starting 24 and Fallout 4 again, which has been bliss.

What do you think of 24? I found it a bit jarring when I tried to rewatch it recently.

[Yevrah]

What do you think of 24? I found it a bit jarring when I tried to rewatch it recently.

I haven't got to the more contentious shit yet, still on the innocent days of Season 1, but loving it. I assume you're talking about the endorsement of torture?