UK General Election 2017 - 8 June

[randomlegend]

1627790089483952128

Jesus christ.

I'm glad people have started sharing their payslips. All doctors are paid badly, frankly, considering the level of training and responsibility but F1 pay is genuinely scandalous. Anyone who has drunk the Lee cool-aid that they are always closely supervised and never left alone to deal with serious ill patients has been conned.

The BMA also really needs to get across what "junior doctor" and "trainee" actually means to the public. The majority of the public actually seem to be onside, but the ones against are mainly because they think a "junior doctor" is just someone fresh out of Uni. The reality is, if you get admitted with sepsis on the brink of death or perforate your bowel and need massive emergency surgery, the majority of the time the person who keeps you alive (a senior registrar with 5/6/7/8+ years post-graduate experience) is a "junior doctor" and a "trainee".

[Lewis]

It's always going to be hard for doctors to earn more (despite their best efforts to prevent the government training more) between working for a government monopoly and the United Kingdom hoovering up half the third world's doctors every year. Maybe if they didn't all support those things. Oh well.

As for matey, won't half of those deductions be his pension and student loan? The terms of the latter are a bit ridiculous, but then maybe you didn't need the PhD (sez me).

[Boydy]

Is it doctors preventing the government from training more? I always assumed the government just didn't want to fund since they could nick already trained third world doctors.

As for matey, do you expect him to not have a pension? Student loans can fuck right off though. Should all be written off and scrapped.

[Luke Emia]

Is it doctors preventing the government from training more? I always assumed the government just didn't want to fund since they could nick already trained third world doctors.

As for matey, do you expect him to not have a pension? Student loans can fuck right off though. Should all be written off and scrapped.

No he should be able to have a pension but let's not fuck about the terms of pensions within the public sector are far too generous and this does get forgotten about when people start moaning about pay in these sectors.

[randomlegend]

I haven't personally looked at this myself, but what I've read is that the generous pension deal people talk about isn't what the current crop of junior doctors are on.

[Luke Emia]

I haven't personally looked at this myself, but what I've read is that the generous pension deal people talk about isn't what the current crop of junior doctors are on.

Could well be the case to be fair. But from what I know as a minimum the NHS will match the person contributions up to 13.2% which is still bloody good compared to anything you will get in the private sector.

When it comes to pensions though I saw a retired teacher a few weeks ago looking at her pension. Final Salary Pension was nearly £50k and she walked away with £195,000 as a lump sum. That's fucking incredible as a pension and more like what I would expect to see from someone who's executive level in a big firm.

[Don]

That's just standard among these public sector cunts, I suspect. Ours were reformed in 2016 just as I joined to mass outrage and they still remain incredibly attractive so I don't even wanna know how many brasses these old retiring fucks are getting in.

[Lewis]

Is it doctors preventing the government from training more? I always assumed the government just didn't want to fund since they could nick already trained third world doctors.

As for matey, do you expect him to not have a pension? Student loans can fuck right off though. Should all be written off and scrapped.

I'm sure that the state is happy to go along with it, despite it being objectively bad and seriously unethical, but yes, there is lots of stuff out there (I'm phone-posting) from the BMA or whoever openly saying that they want to throttle supply (and why wouldn't they). Monopoly provision is the bigger issue.

Public sector pensions (mine being one) are pretty incredible. I was told they are equivalent to something like an extra third on top of your salary, so there ought to be a discussion about reducing them and paying that extra salary now so that people can buy houses or whatever.

[randomlegend]

I'm sure that the state is happy to go along with it, despite it being objectively bad and seriously unethical, but yes, there is lots of stuff out there (I'm phone-posting) from the BMA or whoever openly saying that they want to throttle supply (and why wouldn't they). Monopoly provision is the bigger issue.

Public sector pensions (mine being one) are pretty incredible. I was told they are equivalent to something like an extra third on top of your salary, so there ought to be a discussion about reducing them and paying that extra salary now so that people can buy houses or whatever.

I think the BMA position is a lot more nuanced than you are making it out to be (surprise surprise).

They voted against increasing medical school places because there are already not enough training posts for the doctors we currently produce. Their argument is we shouldn't be creating more places at medical school for those people to then qualify as doctors and have no place to take up on the Foundation Programme. Anyone who did qualify without a Foundation post to take up is in a seriously precarious position because you have to complete F1 and obtain full registration within a relatively short period (3 years I think) or you cannot become a fully fledged doctor in the UK. You'd literally have to go and train in another country. Non-training posts for F1s are also extremely limited, because they don't have full registration.

There are also insane bottlenecks for speciality training, with many excellent candidates having to apply for numerous years to be successful (and with nonsense/arbitrary measures used to differentiate people). This leaves people in perpetual SHO hell despite the fact they are more than qualified and competent to continue training.

The BMA are not against training more doctors, they are against creating more doctors who there is then no capacity to train.

[7om]

This is quite scary for me, as I’ll be going into F1 next year. The bottlenecks are getting worse at different points on the ladder. Getting an F1 spot seems to be relatively guaranteed but your core trainee and specialty trainee spots are having 3,4 or 5 people for every 1 training post available. It’s quite disheartening.

People bang on about training more doctors but that’s not the issue. It’s having higher level training spots for them to progress in to.

[niko_cee]

Is the problem with doctoring that there is an expectation [perhaps not unreasonable] of linear progression into consultancy, but the end result of that is having too many [relatively] highly paid consultants when what you actually need is more of the hard working minions [SHOs I guess]? In every other profession that sort of progression is generally tied to performance [ie revenue raising] so, other than earning all your money via private gigs on the side/Saturday hip-replacements, I'm not sure how that is sustainable in a public service under the NHS model.

Our [Guernsey's] health system seems to be fairly crippled by this - there is an expectation of specialist [consultant] led care but the end result is a wildly expensive system [anecdotally our consultants earn 4 to 5 times what the NHS going rate is for them and we have to pay £60 to see a GP] and long delays in the system because there simply aren't enough doctors to [presumably] deal with the more mundane shit which presents most of the time.

Or is it just Lee and co feathering their nests and wasting vast amounts of public money?

[randomlegend]

It's a combination of things I think.

There are shortages of registrars and consultants in most specialities - as well as GPs - so we're certainly not at the point where too many senior people is an/the issue.

I suspect there is a degree of deliberately keeping people in SHO purgatory to act as service provision. However, the whole point of the creation of the PA role was so that they could take on a significant proportion of the minion work (discharge letters, prescribing, requesting scans, essentially the glorified admin work that F1s and SHOs do) to allow the doctors to actually be trained. The amount of teaching/training most juniors get is frankly absolutely disgraceful. The problem which is emerging is that PAs are generally in fixed posts, whereas doctors still have rotational training inflicted upon them where they move departments or even hospitals every few months. The department's therefore get to know the PAs and they end up taking the training opportunities, whilst the rotational doctors who are only there for a few months get relegated to grunt work. Because why would anyone give a shit about training them when they won't remember their name on a few months? Its becoming a huge problem in some specialities - surgical ones especially - and if we aren't careful we are going to end up with an extremely deskilled generation of doctors. Rotational training just needs to die, it's an abominable way to treat young professionals, but I can understand why it's difficult to get rid of from a service provision perspective. There are a whole load of other issues with PAs that I could get into but probably not that interesting.

There is also - as I've spoken about before - enormous amounts of waste brought about by short termist thinking and frank incompetence in the NHS.

[niko_cee]

It's a real no-mark-off for next leader of the SNP isn't it? Legacy in the gutter and all that.

Being 'socially conservative' [probably the worst type of conservatism] must be a hard circle to square with also being SNP Scotch.

Can see Humza winning it unless they want to Swinney themselves into obscurity [he has whoever was the old labour guy up there written all over him]. Big wins for Sir Keir Starmer incoming.

[Lofty]

Whoever wins still has their leg in the trans bear trap regardless of their views.

[Lewis]

More of a man trap than a bear trap.

[Lofty]

Even as a liberal bleeding heart leftie I think Rishi's 'just give them a questionnaire no face to face interview' strategy for Asylum seekers is mental.

[Shindig]

10 page questionnaire? It's just a Great Place to Work Survey, isn't it?

[niko_cee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64745258


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT7YZQEHHVE&ab_channel=fdfsdffdsfs

[Shindig]

She looks like she should eat less turnips.

[Spikey M]

She should eat more cyanide.

[Lofty]

Tory councillors knocking on doors asking about voting intentions round here :sherlock:

[Ben]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64785574

Are the SNP trying to sabotage themselves?

Whether you agree with this policy or not (and I mean, the similar Pfand system in Germany works well in my experience), why torpedo one of the few unique policies that Scotland has over the rest of the UK? Scottish Labour must be loving this.

[Ian]

I can't quite figure out with that return scheme (given there seem to be lots of examples that work elsewhere) if there is a fundamental issue / difference that means the proposed version is shitter or if people just don't like change.

I understand the point of view of smaller producers, distributors elsewhere but their equivalents in other countries must be doing alright through their versions of this?

[Boydy]

1630517445369688065

Can't wait to become the Hong Kong of the UK.

[Lewis]

Mong Kong.

[Boydy]

:D

Lol

[Spikey M]

The dodgy deals that are going to be funnelled through Northern Ireland now :drool:

[phonics]

The dodgy deals that are going to be funnelled through Northern Ireland now :drool:

I love the idea of all this time, effort and money of Brexit just moving the dodgy deals 40 miles north.

[Lewis]

This 'Windsor Framework' is a load of shit and I don't see how the DUP will go for it. Good to see Steve Baker confirming that he had indeed had an actual MELTDOWN in recent times as well.

[Boydy]

This 'Windsor Framework' is a load of shit and I don't see how the DUP will go for it. Good to see Steve Baker confirming that he had indeed had an actual MELTDOWN in recent times as well.

What's wrong with it?

[Lewis]

It's an improvement on what has been happening insofar as the European Union has agreed to be slightly more sensible about certain things; but European law is still supreme, the 'Stormont Brake' is an absolute joke, and if it isn't all a deliberate effort to prevent us ever meaningfully diverging from Europe then it looks an awful lot like one.

[Spikey M]

Of course it is. And thankfully so.

It could have been avoided by, well, just staying part of the EU and accepting that we are just a colonial power in decline if we stand alone, but you know...

[Lofty]

Thankfully we've taken back control of our borders as promised and small migrant boats haven't increased by a billion percent :moop:

[Spikey M]

Better that than Polish lorry drivers and... erm... full shelves filled with affordable produce.

[Magic]

What about these leaks then?

[Spikey M]

What about these leaks then?

Turns out they aren't actually leaks. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64813653)

[Magic]

Lol at all the Bovid stuff. Await your apologies Kiko.

[Kikó]

What am I supposed to apologising for?

[Magic]

Your entire position during the scamdemic was based on political games and lies.

[Kikó]

No, it really wasn't. Why would you say that?

[randomlegend]

The two unvaccinated mongs on the board parading around with no sense of smell and the lungs of a 60 year old proclaiming they've won is incredible.

[Don]

I asked this over a year ago and was met with deathly silence so I'll go again. Are you getting vaxxed regularly now? If not, why not?

[randomlegend]

Yes. As front line healthcare staff I'm offered boosters every so often (not sure the exact schedule, the last was about 3-4 months ago) and I take them up on the offer.

[Spikey M]

I asked this over a year ago and was met with deathly silence so I'll go again. Are you getting vaxxed regularly now? If not, why not?

No, but I don't think I'm allowed even if I could be arsed. Which I probably wouldn't. Don't regret getting vaxxed, nothing happened and every time I've had Covid it's been mild, but I wouldn't bother with any more.

[Kikó]

I asked this over a year ago and was met with deathly silence so I'll go again. Are you getting vaxxed regularly now? If not, why not?

If it was offered then yes. But we're at a lower risk age group and the disease is now endemic with a better range of treatments available so I doubt it'll be offered for a while.

[Lewis]

I feel like Matt Hancock trusting Isabel Oakeshott with anything says a lot more about him than any of the leaked messages ever could.

[Ben]

I've not read anything into it because I can't be arsed with Tory handbags but just by seeing the headlines, that shocked Pikachu meme is my immediate thought.

[Magic]

No, but I don't think I'm allowed even if I could be arsed. Which I probably wouldn't. Don't regret getting vaxxed, nothing happened and every time I've had Covid it's been mild, but I wouldn't bother with any more.

"Every time" :harold:

[Lofty]

I feel like Matt Hancock trusting Isabel Oakeshott with anything says a lot more about him than any of the leaked messages ever could.

Indeed, she is a vile little cretin. Still lol about her u turn on May calling a snap election when she had predicted just hours before it wouldnt happen. Hopefully he sues her and they both come out of it worse off.

[Spikey M]

"Every time" :harold:

Yep. 3 times to be exact. If you lived with a child you'd probably have had it more too.

[phonics]

Magic literally got hospitalised for it more than any other poster on this forum and it's us who are the idiots.

[Magic]

Except I've had it once. And not really been ill at all since I didn't destroy my immune system with fake vaxx and isolation.

[randomlegend]

You had covid pneumonia you absolute cretin. You were literally the only person on the board who got seriously unwell.

[Magic]

Keep wearing your mask, fatty.

[randomlegend]

Yeah, a vaccinated fat person who was exposed to children with covid coughing all over them for months on end came out with zero lasting effects. Meanwhile your unvaccinated self lost their sense of taste and smell and got pneumonia.

You sure owned me.

[Shindig]

His lass had all the doses so he uses her as a human shield.

[Magic]

Yeah, a vaccinated fat person who was exposed to children with covid coughing all over them for months on end came out with zero lasting effects. Meanwhile your unvaccinated self lost their sense of taste and smell and got pneumonia.

You sure owned me.

Exposing yourself to children eh?

[Shindig]

"You can trust me, I'm a doctor." :D

[randomlegend]

It's not my fault the doctor gets to see your daughter more than you do.

[Magic]

They were lying about new variants to control the population. Another apology owed.

[Luke Emia]

They were lying about new variants to control the population. Another apology owed.

That’s not quite true. They were using the variants to scare people. Bit of a difference…

[Kikó]

CoNtROl ThE pOpUlAtIoN

[Magic]

That’s not quite true. They were using the variants to scare people. Bit of a difference…

:cab:

[Shindig]

Yeah, that's the same thing. Unless you're thinking of literal birth control which has been happening naturally for decades.

[Spikey M]

I think he just took "lying about new variants" to mean that they don't/didn't exist, which is indeed different to weaponising the news of new variants.

[Giggles]

It’s done now. Why is everyone so angry about it, got fuck all else to do?

[Shindig]

Fair point.

[Spikey M]

It’s done now. Why is everyone so angry about it, got fuck all else to do?

You'd be a shit judge.

[Dquincy]

It’s done now. Why is everyone so angry about it, got fuck all else to do?

Are you still double masking up?

[Magic]

Are you still double masking up?

:D

[Shindig]

Stop the Boats might be the worst slogan to appear on a Prime Minster's lectern.

[Lewis]

Top sloganeering. March down the polling station chanting it to 'Here we go'.

[Shindig]

Rock the Boat's a more obvious choice.

Stop The Boats
They're not coming over
Stop the boats
They're not coming over
Stop the booooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaats.

[Ben]

Other than Lewis and the boomers who will vote for them anyway, I’m not sure this does anything for the Tories.

[Giggles]

Are you still double masking up?

Obviously not.

You forgot to mention pasta.

[Lewis]

So I'd like to know where you got the slogan
Said I'd like to know where you got the slogan
Stop the Boats (just stop the boats Rishi)
Stop the Boats (don't flip your core voter)
Stop the Boats (just stop the boats Rishi)
Stop the Booooooats

[Don]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbPEHwwbv80f8tKtVpjfpi6UoskvWLg ykdeg&usqp=CAU

Thought that was photoshopped there, the fucking state of the cunt.

[Lofty]

Should have gone with 'piss off we're full'

[phonics]

It’s n out even centred properly.

[Raoul Duke]

Fackin foreign boats coming over here, sailing up our canals, occupying our dockworkers.

[Luke Emia]

I suppose that stop the Dinghy’s just isn’t as catchy.

I think my favourite thing about all this is that Patel(she’s been big on it), Braverman and Sunak are all exactly the right shade of brown that boomers don’t want in this country.

[Spikey M]

This definitely isn't just an attempt to keep the votes from the Brexit North. Pressing stuff, this.

[Lewis]

At what point would it be 'pressing stuff'? A hundred thousand a year? A million?

[Dquincy]

Obviously not.

You forgot to mention pasta.

Hey, some people are still masking up. I see it a bit in London. No judgement from me.

[Spikey M]

At what point would it be 'pressing stuff'? A hundred thousand a year? A million?

At the point where we don't have crippling inflation, wage stagnation, Energy racketeering and a possible World War on the horizon. Brown people on boats comin' over 'ere, not takin' ah jobs and not being entitled to ah benefits don't particularly bother me tbh.

[Lewis]

They can - or should be able to - do more than one thing at once. Unless you don't think we should have any border controls.

[Spikey M]

They can barely do one thing at once and we already have border controls.

[Lewis]

Which currently enable anyone to roll up in a boat and wait in a hotel until they get around to not being deported due to endless legal challenges. Fantastic. Turns out we have the perfect amount of controls on our borders. Let's not worry about who gets to come and live here with zero oversight.

[Kikó]

Maybe we can have safe and legal channels for people to apply for asylum. That unfortunately isn't as sexy but would reduce the number of boats and actually help stop the traffickers.

[Shindig]

Safe and legal asylum (whatever that is) wouldn't stop the boats coming.

[Dave.]

Safe and legal asylum (whatever that is) wouldn't stop the boats coming.

Why is this?

My MP (a twat in many ways but I agree with him on this) argues for more safer routes for asylum and stopping the boats.

[Shindig]

Any legal avenues will be much slower to process. Time is always a factor.

[Lewis]

We have safe and legal channels for active warzones to which we feel we owe some sort of duty having normally helped start them, but, beyond that, how do you see it working? The issue we have is that our rules make it very difficult to deport people once they are already here, so unless these safe and legal routes were accompanied by draconian new rules that rejected all but the most immediate risk cases and swiftly sent them packing (99.9% per cent of Albanians, for example), how would inviting people here to make their claims in person - which is what Amnesty International deems a safe and legal route - possibly reduce numbers?

Either everybody advocating for the safe 'n' legal option has no common sense and understanding of how these incentives work, and thinks that these people are 'smuggled' against their will by these ruthless 'people smugglers' who themselves aren't merely responding to obvious incentives, or - and call me a cynic - they want loads more of them to turn up, at which point they would throw all of their institutional weight against any change to the rules determining who can and can't stay. It would be much easier if they just said get rid of any controls instead of shrouding it in shite.

[Lofty]

Why have the numbers gone up so drastically since 2018?

[Shindig]

The road traffic is monitored so much now and the lorry drivers can't afford being caught.

[Lofty]

Good point, so the overall numbers per year might not actually be up as much as their chosen method of entry has changed.

[randomlegend]

The BMA telling Barclay to suck a dick after the pathetic 11th hour attempt to get the strikes called off by offering "talks" is great.

The BMA reps have done so well with the media so far.

[Lofty]

This is their only move at the moment, with all unions. Pretend to have a good offer if you call off your strikes, then don't offer anything better than last time.

[Lofty]

Jezza Cunt telling 50 year olds to forget retirement and work til they're 70 sounds like a vote winner.

[randomlegend]

Four day strike immediately after the easter bank holiday weekend.

BMA :cool:

[Spikey M]

"Dead patients. :cool:"

[randomlegend]

"Dead patients. :cool:"

Nope. The last one proved it's safe because the consultants and SAS doctors cover. It's just enormously expensive and disruptive.

[Shindig]

If it's that safe then why don't we just lay a load of doctors off?

[randomlegend]

If it's that safe then why don't we just lay a load of doctors off?

Because paying consultants locum rates to cover and cancel all their elective work to do so is not sustainable.

As I said. Safe, but hugely expensive and disruptive.

[Spikey M]

Because paying consultants locum rates to cover and cancel all their elective work to do so is not sustainable.

As I said. Safe, but hugely expensive and disruptive.

Is it unsustainable because cancelled appointments lead to deaths?

[randomlegend]

Is it unsustainable because cancelled appointments lead to deaths?

The evidence from previous strikes showed they did not lead to an increased death rate in the subsequent period. So no, the evidence is they don't.

It's unsustainable primarily because of cost.

You can quibble over the numbers, but we have taken a huge real terms pay cut over the last few years. You would not accept it, why should we?

The exodus of doctors to Australia/NZ/Canada etc. where pay and conditions are hugely better will - on the other hand - definitely lead to deaths.

[Spikey M]

I know, I'm on the wind up. There are doctors being paid less than me and that's mental to be honest.

[Shindig]

I want to say our health professionals earn more than they do. Fancy writing up some reports and making some phone calls for £35k, randrew?

[Lewis]

If we tried to copy what 'Australia/NZ/Canada etc.' do with their health spending doctors would be out bealing about privatisation. Quite happy with voluntary contributions when they're going in their back pockets though the jumped-up search engine cunts.

[niko_cee]

I don't really know anything about it, but banning laughing gas seems an odd direction to be taking 'drugs policy'.

Is this some sort of bid to re-assert themselves as the party of law and order by the conservatives?

[Ben]

It’s just to be seen to be doing something because it’s still somehow a vote winner. I’ve never understood the archaic attitude to drugs that this country still has. Even some Republican states in the U.S. have legalised cannabis now.

[Boydy]

Starmer was going on the other day about the smell of cannabis wafting in family's windows in neighbourhoods and ruining people's lives.

[niko_cee]

Wasn't he also praising Thatcher in a classic tanks on lawn manoeuvre the other day?

[mo]

Govt has made an offer to teaching unions. They have to meet about it and then present to members tomorrow at 6.

[Lewis]

Starmer was going on the other day about the smell of cannabis wafting in family's windows in neighbourhoods and ruining people's lives.

This ought to be the main grounds for banning it. If somebody invents an odourless version then whatever, but until then hang the users.

[Spikey M]

In that case I want Egg Mayo Sandwiches and Pickled Onion Monster Munch made illegal immediately.

[Boydy]

Firing squad for anyone who microwaves fish at work.

[Lewis]

Good call.

[Spikey M]

Firing squad for anyone who microwaves fish at work.

All jokes aside I would vote for any Party that had this policy.

[randomlegend]

A few doctors have started releasing evidence of the appalling ways we get treated by management/admin staff on Reddit/Twitter.

It's mainly just people who've already escaped to other countries at the moment who can't be bullied with threats about training places or vexatious GMC referrals, but fuck I hope it opens the floodgates.

Burn the vicious, incompetent bastards down :drool:

[AJ23]

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1639689865238306816

[Ben]

Yousaf is the new SNP leader. He probably won't torpedo the party overnight like Forbes would have but he seems like a whole load of nothing so a fade into obscurity beckons. Labour and Tories are licking their lips no doubt.

[Waffdon]

Forbes would have been far better. Guy is an absolute gimp. Tried to sue the nursery my mates bairn is at. Tosser.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They're all just lightweights compared to Sturgeon. I'm still a bit mystified as to why she quit, has to be more to it than the gender row.

[Waffdon]

cheeky affair

[Magic]

Forbes would have been far better. Guy is an absolute gimp. Tried to sue the nursery my mates bairn is at. Tosser.

He lives near me, typical Tory.

[Waffdon]

Humza or my mate? :lol:

The latter definitely is. Bought the old Stonelee guest house opposite Suzuki garage. Some gaff

[Kikó]

They're all just lightweights compared to Sturgeon. I'm still a bit mystified as to why she quit, has to be more to it than the gender row.

Probably the financial irregularities and the closeness of her husband to it all.

[Lewis]

Nicola Sturgeon is a lightweight. The devolved Scottish administration is the worst government in the country, and she got an easy ride off the media because she was a woman and opposed Brexit.

[Spikey M]

Northern Ireland, Shirley? They haven't had a functioning one for about half a decade now.

[Lewis]

Nobody making things worse. Besides, Northern Ireland is part of the European Union now, so I didn't include it.

[Spikey M]

Scab bastards.

[mo]

4.3% increase for teachers from September, 4% to come from existing budgets, plus £1k. Laughable offer, worse than Scotland and Wales. REJECT.

[randomlegend]

4.3% increase for teachers from September, 4% to come from existing budgets, plus £1k. Laughable offer, worse than Scotland and Wales. REJECT.

Joke offer. Government are absolute cunts, the lot of them.

[Kikó]

Lucky the worst government in the UK ( :harold: ) aren't dealing with them.

[Spikey M]

I don't think even this set of Tory cunts would have the brass neck to say Corbyn would be offering less.

[igor_balis]

Firing squad for anyone who microwaves fish at work.

I genuinely used to do this semi regularly at Barclays, and thought my colleagues were overreacting. I was genuinely very embarrassed when I realised it was a #thing. guess I just love fish

[Lofty]

I don't think even this set of Tory cunts would have the brass neck to say Corbyn would be offering less.

This is Jeremy Corbyn's world and we're just living in it, that's why you have to vote Tory and stop his banana republic ways once and for all!

[AJ23]

I genuinely used to do this semi regularly at Barclays, and thought my colleagues were overreacting. I was genuinely very embarrassed when I realised it was a #thing. guess I just love fish

Oh God no. That smell spreads far and wide. If you've dated a woman with no hygiene or an infection in her nether regions, you're suddenly reminded of that.

Fish is good but microwave fish is another level of nasal intrusion.

[Boydy]

Ah, you've missed some of Igor's stories while you've been away, I see.

[Ian]

I don't think even this set of Tory cunts would have the brass neck to say Corbyn would be offering less.

They would blame him for their offer being so shit though.

[randomlegend]

1640740143572176897

Replies to this give you an insight into what it's like being a doctor in this country. Every single doctor has personal stories like this.

[CJay]

We took our kids (5 & 3) to visit their 92 year old great-granda (they see him at home every week usually) who is currently in hospital following a minor stroke. We walked through the doors to be met by the nurse in charge telling us that kids aren’t allowed in due to the risk of infection. Is that actually a thing? randomlegend might know I guess? No sign or anything up telling us.

Of course my wife who teaches P1s and lives with our 2 children then spent the rest of the visiting time in with him. :cab:

Edit: Saw RL was the most recent poster and it was about doctors, brain obviously didn’t clock this is the election thread. :D

[randomlegend]

IDK what the official rules are where I am, nurses tend to be the guardians of such things. I also haven't worked in an adult ward in ages. On paeds I think our rule is no more than two people by the bedside (one of which will be the parent/guardian who is staying with the child).

My guess would be they just don't allow kids because it gets unmanageable and used "infection control mate" as an excuse they think people are less likely to argue with, but it could just as easily actually be an infection control policy as they almost never make any sense whatsoever.

[Ben]

4.3% increase for teachers from September, 4% to come from existing budgets, plus £1k. Laughable offer, worse than Scotland and Wales. REJECT.

Rejected. :drool:

[randomlegend]

Teachers :cool:

RCN seems to be imploding in an undignified fashion.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Probably the financial irregularities and the closeness of her husband to it all.

Arrested. Well done.

[Kikó]

Private eye have been banging on about it for a while so thanks to Ian Hislop.

[Ben]

Yeah it's been mentioned in quite a few issues this year.

[Magic]

I did think the trans thing was a bit of a weird hill to die on.

RIP indyref.

[Yevrah]

Yep, suddenly this all makes sense.

Somewhat surprised she's stuck by him. If she's innocent of any knowledge of what was going on I'd be livid were I her - he's basically torpedoed any chance of independence.

[Boydy]

The investigation was launched after complaints about the SNP’s handling of £600,000 in donations raised by the party ostensibly to campaign for and hold a second independence referendum.

It is alleged the money was used instead to help with the party’s day-to-day running costs.

From this: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/05/peter-murrell-nicola-sturgeons-husband-arrested-over-snp-funding-investigation?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

I don't really get what's so bad about that. Was the campaign they raised the money for in the first place a separate legal entity to the SNP or what?

[Boydy]

If it wasn't and you gave money to one SNP thing and they used that money for other SNP things, would you be arsed? If it's going to the SNP in the first place, you're clearly happy to financially support the SNP.

[niko_cee]

One might suggest that election/funding laws are largely there to allow the establishment to attack whichever [niche] political movement du jour that they don't much like.

[Magic]

If it wasn't and you gave money to one SNP thing and they used that money for other SNP things, would you be arsed? If it's going to the SNP in the first place, you're clearly happy to financially support the SNP.

Are you mad? Lots of people hate the SNP and just want independence so yes if I'd have contributed to the independence movement specifically and they spent it on something else I'd be livid.

[Boydy]

Are you mad? Lots of people hate the SNP and just want independence so yes if I'd have contributed to the independence movement specifically and they spent it on something else I'd be livid.

Can you not read?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Having just gone through South America where every fucking street corner and lamp post has 100 political posters and ads on it, I'm happy for there to be punitively strict campaign finance law over here.

[Magic]

Can you not read?

I read you talking shite.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65309791

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/D46B/production/_129397345_gettyimages-684616576.jpg

The third Mitchell brother.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He looks, more than anyone else I've ever seen, like a baby has been cleverly dressed up, made up and photographed to make it look like it's in its fifties.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

:happycry:

[Spikey M]

That's one of those AI images I keep hearing about and nobody will convince me otherwise.

[Ben]

Raab gone, resigned. I'm quite surprised at that so the report must have uncovered some proper twattish stuff.

[Jimmy Floyd]

And in his resignation letter claims that the bar for bullying has been set too low. Classy.

[randomlegend]

What a cunt.

[Lewis]

My work had to endure an all-day bullying workshop because a manager told a young woman to 'use a bit of common sense'. By the sounds of it the man did nothing wrong, and these departments could do with all the whingers flushing out.

'Mate. You didn't Communicate and Influence. You need to See the Bigger Picture mate.'

[7om]

If the threshold for bullying claims is low and he got cleared of all but two charges, surely that implies he barely bullied anyone.

[Ben]

Since when should we take his word for it that the threshold is too low? It's not like he's got a good track record of being genuine.

[Lewis]

You can read the report. It's literally people bealing that he wanted good work out of them and finding his hand gestures aggressive because he's in decent shape.

[Yevrah]

The report may well be a whitewash as these things tend to be but there's really bugger all in it.

[Ben]

So why’s he resigned then? Patel breached the Ministerial Code over bullying and survived. Raab fucked up big on Afghanistan and survived. Clearly something is up.

[niko_cee]

He's probably just had enough and wants to go back to making money for a living. Coming from his background into having to deal with the civil service must be extremely frustrating. Bit too much of a culture clash.

[Boydy]

He's probably just had enough and wants to go back to making money for a living. Coming from his background into having to deal with the civil service must be extremely frustrating. Bit too much of a culture clash.

He hasn't resigned as an MP, has he?

[Lewis]

In his BBC interview he is a bit shifty about whether he will contest the next election, which means he probably won't. Saying the civil service has a 'passive-aggressive culture' is a great line. Government by useless women, for useless women.

[niko_cee]

He hasn't resigned as an MP, has he?

Nah, but he can see the way the wind is blowing and he's had his time at or near the top.

[Don]

Just heard his response to BBC on radio. What a don.

[Magic]

Since when should we take his word for it that the threshold is too low? It's not like he's got a good track record of being genuine.

"Back in my day"

[Jimmy Floyd]

His seat (mine) is history anyway, Lib Dems will win easily regardless of any of this, as they will win all similar seats in the area, some with vastly greater swings. Bores in the media will talk it up as a 'Portillo moment' but whereas that was a shock, this is a complete 100% certainty.

[Spikey M]

I see Diane Abbott is still brain dead, which is nice.

[Lewis]

Her mistake seems to have been providing crap examples, rather than merely saying racism against black people is the worst racism, because quite a lot of people believe that. I'm not sure how the letter was anti-Semitic, but maybe I am for not seeing it. I think she would easily retain her seat as an independent, and presumably won't want to end her career being drummed out of politics over some bad racism, so that might be lol if her and Wor Jezza coast home as 'Real Labour' or whatever.

[niko_cee]

North London Labour.

They can run a candidate against Thornberry in islington South.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think, if you were opined this way, you could make an argument that colour-based racism is a bigger problem in the UK than that faced by non-British white groups, but she is far too thick to make it coherently. It's always a tell when people refer to American segregation or Apartheid decades ago, rather than examples from contemporary Britain, which to the internationalist left is a sort of irrelevant backwater.

[Lewis]

Wouldn't anything with 'Labour' on the ticket struggle to get past the Electoral Commission on similarity grounds if there is expected to be a contest? Does that old Bob Crow socialist/trade union vehicle still have an office and a phoneline?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'd have a run at 'Layber'.

[Spikey M]

"My victimhood is worse than your victimhood" is the type of shit a 16 year old says on TikTok for clout, no politician should be wasting their time on that nonsense.

[Ben]

The Beeb chairman is gone.

It's all unravelling pretty quickly for anyone even remotely connected to that Boris era.

[Spikey M]

I wonder which entirely impartial individual they'll replace e him with.

[niko_cee]

Just saw someone I went to school with on Newsnight, apparently standing in the local elections in Stoke* for the Greens, which was a bit :cab:.

Or perhaps I should say "woke-on-trent" if you listen to what their Conservative MP has to say for himself [seriously, where do they find these people?].

[Shindig]

I've taken none of the leaflets in but I guess it's the standard tick in the Labour box from me.

[Jimmy Floyd]

All three candidates here (Con, LD and Res - it isn't worth Labour wasting a deposit) have the same headline policy, which is get the illegal gypo boats off the Thames. I can't say I've noticed these maritime caravans but the sentiment is spot on so I'll be putting a cross in all three boxes.

[Spikey M]

I voted Labour, increasing the number of votes they'll get here by around 20%.

[Ben]

It'll be Labour from me, in a parting gift to the ward as I'll be gone by the end of the month. I did consider the alternative, but his leaflet had a car selfie and that just ain't it, chief.

[Boydy]

Are your council elections FPTP or STV?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Everything in England is FPTP apart from the London mayor I think.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In Windsor, the first of the really relevant 'blue wall' areas to declare fully, Cons went from 23 to 7 seats and LDs went from 9 to 22. I don't think anyone has priced in just how much the Tories have alienated their base in the 'nicer' areas of the country and how utterly comfortable Lib Dem success will be there come the GE, to the point where they might even get back to some kind of parliamentary relevance as they had before 2015.

They're a bunch of nimby twats, but the Tories are so toxic now everywhere outside the most hard right value sets. They've probably eroded down to just the people who want the death penalty back.

[Ben]

Inevitably there were a few stories in the papers about folk being turned away from polling stations "in tears" because they didn't bring ID. Those affected seemed overwhelmingly old, so a nice own goal from the Tories there in their genuine quest to tackle the one instance of voter fraud.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't really understand that as a vote suppression tactic. Any widespread voter fraud that there is will be in your Tower Hamlets etc full of Pakistanis (sorry racist police but it's just the truth), and the Tories are never going to win there in a million years anyway, so as you say it strikes me as just upsetting the unbreakable routines of the old.

I'm a bit torn on it, I think it's stupid and unnecessary, but once it's been brought in I have zero sympathy for people who live their lives in a haze and have been ignorant of the many prompts to bring ID.

[Spikey M]

23% turnout here. :harold:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Looking around I see North Norfolk has Con +5 and LD -6. What a country we are.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Another observation from the radio reports this morning is that both Sunak and Starmer sound like utter gimps as disemodied voices.

[randomlegend]

As if they don't as embodied voices.

[Boydy]

I don't think the Labour party has anyone who sounds normal. They all have proper nerd voices.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Having looked through some of the results in more detail, the story seems to be that the Tories are getting smashed but Labour really do have an issue in some areas. In the more Remain-y type areas, in a general election, they're going to have to rely on the LDs or even Greens helping them out and then the path to an outright majority becomes that much more difficult. Meanwhile in the more Leave-y areas, the Tories are holding up a lot better so Labour will have to throw everything at those seats.

In Lab v LD and Lab v Green contests they're really not doing too well, which reflects their base popularity or lack of it.

[phonics]

All our local councillors were either Tory, Lib Dem or Independent. I voted for one Lib and one Indepedent just as a guess.

[Yevrah]

Looking around I see North Norfolk has Con +5 and LD -6. What a country we are.

Coming from Norfolk I can assure you that the Tories could ban pensioners from breathing and they’d still romp home there.

[Magic]

Can't believe people are still voting for these fuckers.

[niko_cee]

Don't most people always just vote the same way forever?

[Ben]

I think both the big parties have like a 25-30% base level that will never be breached. Unfortunately for the Tories, Johnson and Truss have tanked almost every swing voter. The hope is that the stink stays on them until the GE next year, because these fuckers need a long stint in Opposition to reset.

[Magic]

I think both the big parties have like a 25-30% base level that will never be breached. Unfortunately for the Tories, Johnson and Truss have tanked almost every swing voter. The hope is that the stink stays on them until the GE next year, because these fuckers need a long stint in Opposition to reset.

Someone made an interesting point on Twitter that the Tories will still have their agendas pursued even if they get decimated because Labour have basically become them.

[Luke Emia]

Coming from Norfolk I can assure you that the Tories could ban pensioners from breathing and they’d still romp home there.

Yep, can concur. It makes not a fucking jot if I even tried to vote tactically. Liz Truss would still have a massive fucking majority.

[niko_cee]

Sounds like someone is justifying their vote for Truss there.

[Lewis]

Labour have become the Conservative Party who were the Labour Party anyway. Whoever wins, a million immigrants get in. Boris Johnson should be hanged for pissing his election victory up the wall.

[Luke Emia]

Sounds like someone is justifying their vote for Truss there.

Never voted for her since I moved into her constituency in 2015. When I lived in West Norfolk at least the Tory MP was from the area and actually tried to help make the place better for locals even if you didn’t always agree with his politics. Now all that happens is people get parachuted in from around the country because they are safe seats and they know they won’t lose them.

Case in point being Truss when she was PM being asked if she could guarantee the local hospital which is literally falling down would be rebuilt and she said that wasn’t something she had control over.

[Ben]

Boris Johnson served his purpose, in his own eyes. He was always a lazy cunt so the day-to-day work required to lead a country was never his bag, especially for the lousy salary, hence his need to get the BBC chairman to sort him out £800k. If he went just before Partygate, he would have cemented his legacy as someone who saved the country from Bovid and sorted out Brexit, as he would have been numbed to the fallout if he was already out of office. He lived just long enough to see himself become the villain.

[Luke Emia]

Labour have become the Conservative Party who were the Labour Party anyway. Whoever wins, a million immigrants get in. Boris Johnson should be hanged for pissing his election victory up the wall.

The immigrants we realistically need anyway to keep the economy functioning as the boomers get old and sap all the money the country has?

[Spikey M]

The same is true here. It's been a Tory safe seat forever.

For the Council Elections I kind of get it, because our local council is actually quite good. 2 of our Conservative councillors are local and constantly busy bodying on Facebook getting minor things done for moaning pensioners. Meanwhile the Labour bods live in Rochford and have never been heard from.

The local MP is a cunt though and I can't understand the loyalty at all.

[Spikey M]

The immigrants we realistically need anyway to keep the economy functioning as the boomers get old and sap all the money the country has?

Alternatively, make it affordable for young people to move out of their parents houses and they may start having children again. As it stands we are heading for population shrinkage and none of us are getting a state pension.

The country is a fucking shambles.

[Lewis]

Lasting economic stagnation and inevitable ethnic conflict, but at least I can choose between lots of different places to fix my phone. Swings and roundabouts.

[Don]

phonics

[Luke Emia]

Lasting economic stagnation and inevitable ethnic conflict, but at least I can choose between lots of different places to fix my phone. Swings and roundabouts.

Probably for the best we just rewind 300 years ago to when “We Ruled The Fucking World”

At least Brexit has fixed the issues with all the darkies and browns coming in though…

[Yevrah]

Alternatively, make it affordable for young people to move out of their parents houses and they may start having children again. As it stands we are heading for population shrinkage and none of us are getting a state pension.

The country is a fucking shambles.

Populations are shrinking everywhere, no? And isn’t that just as much to do with the relatively recent empowerment of Women/the realisation there are just as good if not better things to be doing with your time and money than saddling yourself with kids, as the things you list?

[Ben]

Economic development causes the shrinkage. Even China's is now, I'm not sure they're too arsed about empowerment of women.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've done quite a bit of travelling recently to different places and what really strikes me is how much greater the social cohesion is everywhere else. There's absolutely no one, in England at least, buying into any kind of national story or feeling part of anything. It's quite hard to give examples without being misinterpreted or shot down, but it's such a striking lack of togetherness that we have. I think part of that comes from what Lewis is talking about and part comes from Thatcher and Blair's pro-American reforms.

Won't be fixed by having a more left wing government either, it's quite a deep cultural affliciton specific to us.

[niko_cee]

Community and development/affluence aren't really compatible.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Community and development/affluence aren't really compatible.

True but even in the US they know what they are about and with the exception of Bernie Sanders and a few mad professors, they aren't in the business of apologising for it. Same in France, where they might be the biggest set of ponces you could possible imagine, but they know what they are and what they stand for. We feel like the hollowed-out result of a decades-long cost-cutting exercise - cultural (by Blair) and social (by the Tories).

[Lewis]

I'm not sure that America is a good comparison.

[Spikey M]

Populations are shrinking everywhere, no? And isn’t that just as much to do with the relatively recent empowerment of Women/the realisation there are just as good if not better things to be doing with your time and money than saddling yourself with kids, as the things you list?

The empowerment of women and birth control are undoubtedly part of it, but equally, people not being able to move out of their parents house until they're in their 30's will be making it worse.

[Boydy]

The cost of childcare can't help either.

[Spikey M]

The cost of childcare can't help either.

There's a woman at work that has dropped to 25 hours a week because if she worked full time it would only cover the added childcare and petrol required to do so. It's mental.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Cost of childcare because society has been hollowed out and there are so few extended families in the same place.

[Yevrah]

I've done quite a bit of travelling recently to different places and what really strikes me is how much greater the social cohesion is everywhere else. There's absolutely no one, in England at least, buying into any kind of national story or feeling part of anything. It's quite hard to give examples without being misinterpreted or shot down, but it's such a striking lack of togetherness that we have. I think part of that comes from what Lewis is talking about and part comes from Thatcher and Blair's pro-American reforms.

Won't be fixed by having a more left wing government either, it's quite a deep cultural affliciton specific to us.

I’m not sure that’s true. Look at what happened when the Queen died and no doubt what will happen when Charles dies (for very different reasons as Wills is ushered in).

I know it’s pretty popular to knock Great Britain for many different reasons, but I’ve travelled a bit too and there aren’t many places I’ve been to that I’d rather live.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Queen represented a time when we did all buy into the country.

I wouldn't live anywhere else either, I love this place, it's just a mess at the moment.

[Yevrah]

The Queen represented a time when we did all buy into the country.

I wouldn't live anywhere else either, I love this place, it's just a mess at the moment.

I agree to an extent, but it's probably similar to Chelsea. Get a decent manager in who is up to the scale of the task and things will look much better.

[Spikey M]

I would leave this dump tomorrow if the opportunity were there.

[Yevrah]

Why isn't the opportunity there (by that I mean why can't you make one) and where would you go?

[Spikey M]

Why isn't the opportunity there (by that I mean why can't you make one) and where would you go?

Having 2 young kids makes it very difficult as we'd have no support abroad and neither of us work in a field that would be attractive to another country. Plus, my wife doesn't share my desire to leave the country, sadly.

I'm not too sure where. Canada was the plan when I was at Uni. Possibly Australia.

[Lewis]

That is one thing that the country has going for it. Australia is probably better for somebody with a useful occupation, like a doctor working in their superior ('privatised') healthcare system, but you would get twenty years out of it before most of the country spends half the year on fire.

[Boydy]

Fucking massive spiders too. Fuck that.

[niko_cee]

Wives never want to go, it's an inexorable truth in life.

I'd love to have moved to Australia. As it is I'll be moving to true blue Horsham [I looked it up, seems they've had a Tory MP since the 1830s] in the summer, and not the one is deepest South Australia, although that's probably not a bad thing.

[randomlegend]

I would like to move to a Scandinavian country but the chances of me being able to learn Norwegian to the standard required to practice medicine are less than zero.

[niko_cee]

Is that a food thing? I've always imagined the Scandi countries would be pretty dull places to live, and bleak a lot of the time.

[randomlegend]

Cold and bleak is my natural habitat.

[niko_cee]

Yeah, but you already live in Norfolk.

[Ben]

No Tories in Norway though.

[Ian]

And they've got their own dreadful, incompetent bigots in charge presumably but you don't speak the language to know about it. Ignorance is bliss.

[Kikó]

I'm very happy with my choice of not being in the UK anymore. Standard of living and general services feel so much higher.

[phonics]

All our local councillors were either Tory, Lib Dem or Independent. I voted for one Lib and one Indepedent just as a guess.

Update: Indies gained 6, Greens gained 4, Lib Dems lost 4, Tories lost 5, Labour lost their only 1.

I found this info from the BBC but only that. I cannot find anywhere including the district council on who actually won. The local papers only article about it was all national results.

[Gray Fox]

Other than the Blair era, it's been a Tory safe seat here since its inception. Out of 40 seats the Tories have lost 8 down to 14, Labour up 3 to 13, Greens with +4 up to 5 and Lib Dem +1(was 0).

We were very pro-Brexit around here too.

I'd say it's a very bad day for the Tory boys, but Labour shouldn't be getting all bullish about anything. They seem to be splitting those lost Tory seats rather than hoovering them up. It'd very much suggest a Lab/Lib coalition is coming, to me.

[Spikey M]

Labour remain an embarrassment. With these absolute cunts in charge of the country, Labour should be storming home, in a desperate attempt to get them out ASAP. Even Jimmy would be wearing a red tie to work.

That this isn't happening, and they're just scooping up their fair share of the lost Tory seats is a pretty damning reflection of the (complete lack of) opposition that they are.

I voted for them, but I could have easily voted Lib Dem or just not bothered like 3/4 of my area did. I took no pleasure in voting for them at all.

[Ben]

I’m surprised Labour are so confident. One of Starmer’s qualities is to keep his head. A lot of these vote swings are anti-Tory rather than pro-Labour, so there’s a very real danger a significant number could fuck off again before the GE.