UK General Election 2017 - 8 June

[Yevrah]

You would have thought he’d realise from Blair that you need to stand on your own ticket and work your nuts off to beat an incumbent Tory government. Two things that I’d suggest aren’t happening and if they don’t get an outright majority in the general election it’ll be a worse showing than Corbyn.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It won't be easy to overturn this majority, especially as the Tories aren't shifting in Brexit areas quite as easily as in others. If I had to guess now I'd say the Lib Dems will prop them up into government in exchange for some watered dow electoral reform (watered down because Labour don't want it, much to the disappointment of their online cheerleaders).

[Luke Emia]

It won't be easy to overturn this majority, especially as the Tories aren't shifting in Brexit areas quite as easily as in others. If I had to guess now I'd say the Lib Dems will prop them up into government in exchange for some watered dow electoral reform (watered down because Labour don't want it, much to the disappointment of their online cheerleaders).

You would think that's it the biggest thing you can see happening in the next election is tactical voting just to get rid of the Tories and everyone seems to be fed up with them at the minute.

I never understand why Labour aren't interested in reform of the voting surely PR helps them by basically ensuring a coalition should nearly always be made that could keep the Tories out. No they the LD's, Greens etcetera have different end games but they aren't as far apart as they make out.

[niko_cee]

Labour would (presumably) rather be running the show from time to time, rather than 'ensuring the Tories are kept out'. Coalition politics are for minority parties. Also it'd end up back firing with a coalition of conservatives and other right wing/pensioner lunatics being in perpetual government.

[Lewis]

The Pensioner Party, Save Our Greenbelt, and the We Love Dogs Party ruling for a thousand years.

[Don]

What was turnout like at these? Don't tell me the spiritual crisis that has us all drowning in apathy and nihilism is merely a figment of my imagination.

[Spikey M]

What was turnout like at these? Don't tell me the spiritual crisis that has us all drowning in apathy and nihilism is merely a figment of my imagination.

Less than 25% in my area. :D

[Shindig]

41.5% for Durham's little by-election. :D

[Manc]

38%. Grim.

[Gray Fox]

31.71% for around here.

[phonics]

1658559935712579588

Genuinely the thickest man in politics. I only follow him to see how he'll outdo himself next.

[Boydy]

Peston? Generally I'd agree but I don't see what's so bad about that tweet. It is surprising that Israelis sponsoring that conference would be okay with Douglas Murray calling the Holocaust a "muck up".


Also, I still can't believe they called it "National Conservatism". Like, come on.

[Spikey M]

I remember Jimmy saying that the world is forgetting how bad the World Wars were and how dangerous that is and he's right. We are slowly marching towards ww3. What an irredeemable shithole the world is at the moment.

[Yevrah]

It’s probably no worse than it was in the 80s.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The difference between now and the first half of the 20th century is that living standards are so much higher now that there is no incentive for the common man to want to go out and tear shit up. Communists and fascists won support with grand visions and promises of a better world. No one today, except a few fringe freaks in university common rooms, wants a better world. They want the same world but tailored more precisely to their narrow interests, which usually just means more time to drink alcohol and watch Netflix.

So although some commentators rooted in Cold War politics may find splinter right conferences 'chilling', in reality it's just a load of hot air.

[Ian]

I remember Jimmy saying that the world is forgetting how bad the World Wars were and how dangerous that is and he's right. We are slowly marching towards ww3. What an irredeemable shithole the world is at the moment.

Nobody would dare get involved in a war with a country boasting Mark Francois among its defenders.

[Boydy]

1659080746596806658

https://i0.wp.com/labouroutlook.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/broadband-communism-1.jpg

[Offshore Toon]

The different tariffs are a total scam from what I've heard so they'll find a way to get them signed back up.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65636112

A remarkable example of someone correctly diagnosing the problem while also being the problem. Also some good Young Conservatives material, for fans of that.

[Boydy]

1661289729294254083

Oof indeed. Glad I managed to get mine fixed for another five years a few months ago when things had fallen a bit after last year's Liz Truss debacle and I didn't just hold out to see what things were like when the original two year fixed period ended this month. That £75 a month increase doesn't look as bad now.

[Yevrah]

Mine renews September 2024, so you can guarantee it'll be a complete shitshow until at least then.

[Ben]

We're yet to move into our new house but the mortgage is in place. Fixed at 4.5%, which is a sickener coming off a 2%er.

[Clunge]

We're just in the process of fixing again for three years at about 4.2% coming off – I think – 2.5% which doesn't feel like the worst thing that could ever happen ever. Still shit though.

[Lofty]

Ours is up for renewal in February but was a wank interest rate so we could borrow more than the low interest rate offers at the time (through her bank), so hopefully it wont sting as much for us.

[Spikey M]

Ours goes up £300 a month next month
:sick:


Only fixed for 2 years, so the cunt had better start falling soon.

[Lofty]

Yeah my Mrs was banging on about getting a large loan out to use on a new kitchen and some building work, she didn't seem to realise our mortgage could be going up shortly so maybe not the best time to lock into a large repayment plan.

[Ben]

That's not the type of thing a woman would do now is it.

The house we've bought has recently had the kitchen and bathroom done (to a great standard). My Mrs wanted to go for the one round the corner that was £20k less, but needed the kitchen and bathroom doing urgently. :facepalm:

[Magic]

But all the goons on Twitter are laughing at Germany and it's recession!

[Lofty]

Some geezer has ramraided Downing St gates and not a single post. Dennis Skinner in the mud.

[Lofty]

Ramraider a nonce: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65729003

[niko_cee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65861936

Sir Rees-Mogg.

:sick:


Former minister Nadine Dorries was not put forward for the House of Lords.

She stood down as an MP "with immediate effect" an hour before the honours list was released.

:cab:

[Ben]

The cronyism in this country at times would make Putin cringe.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Is that Nadine taking revenge for them not giving her a gong by serving up an awkward by-election? These people honestly have no idea do they.

[niko_cee]

Surely a 25000 majority isn't going to be particularly awkward, unless it was her winning personality and electoral charm which won that.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If one of Lab/LD stands aside, the other will piss it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Boris gone too. RIP useless prat.

[Ben]

Still trying to blame everyone but himself. Fucking charlatan.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not sure why his statement drones on about how we need low taxes. He was PM for three years and was Mr High Taxes. Proves that anyone still backing him is an embarrassing sycophant rather than anyone who thinks about what they are saying or doing.

[Spikey M]

I'm honestly pretty easy on the tax thing. Have high taxes and a Scandinavian system if you want, or low taxes and a Yank one. Whatever. Just anything but the worst of both worlds shite we have at the moment.

[Boydy]

1668012026210451458

[Yevrah]

He really is the disgrace that keeps on giving.


Cue Lewis to explain why it's totally fine.

[niko_cee]

Services to deep throating.

[Lewis]

He really is the disgrace that keeps on giving.


Cue Lewis to explain why it's totally fine.


That woman is obviously being massively over-promoted, but it's difficult to get wound up about it when I still have to hear from 'Baroness Warsi' fifteen years after David Cameron needed his picture taken with a brown woman.

[niko_cee]

Is she actually his daughter?

Surely even he wouldn't have the brass neck for that.

*realises who he's talking about*

Oh yeah.

Didn't he recommend his dad for a knighthood?

[Ian]

He's probably got no more idea if it's his daughter than we do.

[Ben]

Dame Priti Patel is the most egregious one.

[Lofty]

At least Priti Patel has been a 'public' servant for years. She's not the first person to basically commit treason on the job and get a gong later. You expect a level of Sir Eric Pickles of the £80k biscuit bill stuff, but nominating the youngest person in history who is basically a nobody to vote on policy and recieve £1500 a week for life or whatever it is, naked corruption.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They need all these ogres in the Lords, as I'm increasingly not convinced they're going to have much left in the Commons after the election.

[Lewis]

They'll need all the peers they can get to agree with everything the Labour government does and use their new platform to criticise whoever seeks to re-make the party.

[Boydy]

1668634104517242883

[Raoul Duke]

Get the guillotines out

[niko_cee]

Is it bad that 'price-adjusted' things stay about the same over time?

[Boydy]

1668709139613089794

What is the point of these useless cunts?

The tories will do a big giveaway budget next spring and labour will lose the election.

[Spikey M]

I'm not sure why people on 90k a year need free childcare to be fair. As long as they don't cut it to 20k or something I'm not really seeing the problem.

[Boydy]

London is probably the answer.

[Spikey M]

The answer to London is "fuck 'em".

[randomlegend]

I guess the idea is to encourage people to stay in work (or at least make the choice financially viable).

Even for people earning decent money, childcare is so expensive that they are financially better off staying off work to look after the kids.

[Spikey M]

It absolutely is for people on normal wages and I fully support funded childcare, probably up to 50k. Beyond that they shouldn't need any help and the financial burden of giving up work has to be far beyond that of childcare.

[randomlegend]

One of the registrar's at work was saying their childcare for two kids (he's also a doctor) costs half her monthly wage. Financially, cutting her hours significantly would benefit them.

[Kikó]

Having parents in full time work by subsidising child care is a no brainier.

[Lewis]

Big Liz Truss wanted to make childcare cheaper by relaxing staffing ratios before the WEF nobbled her. Yet another government-induced shortage.

[Boydy]

It absolutely is for people on normal wages and I fully support funded childcare, probably up to 50k. Beyond that they shouldn't need any help and the financial burden of giving up work has to be far beyond that of childcare.

Are you talking about a single wage here? The 90k figure is household income. Two 45k a year earners in London (or the south east in general) really doesn't seem ridiculously wealthy.

But again, it all comes down to property prices in this stupid fucking country. They'd be well off if housing wasn't insanely expensive.

[Ben]

https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/40412/documents/197199/default/

The Partygate report has been published, with the last section being an absolute scandal. The bloke should go to jail, never mind prevented from returning to politics.


In the light of Mr Johnson’s further contempts, we put on record that if he had not
resigned his seat, we would have recommended that he be suspended from the service
of the House for 90 days for repeated contempts and for seeking to undermine the
parliamentary process, by:
• Deliberately misleading the House
• Deliberately misleading the Committee
• Breaching confidence
• Impugning the Committee and thereby undermining the democratic process
of the House
• Being complicit in the campaign of abuse and attempted intimidation of the
Committee.
In view of the fact that Mr Johnson is no longer a Member, we recommend that he
should not be granted a former Member’s pass.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Which he's obviously still doing. There's a level of desperation which suggests all is not well chez lui.

[Yevrah]

As with the US there seems to be a complete lack of proper process for taking people to task when they abuse the power of their office, which for my money should be punished as seriously as white collar crime. That seems to suggest "he's resigned, oh well".

[Lewis]

He deserves to be finished for being a shit Prime Minister and all round waste of time, but it is a stitch-up that wouldn't pass any sort of actual legal standards. 'Impugning the Committee and thereby undermining the democratic process of the House' is like something from Turkey. As with America, if you start making this shit up on the spot to get people you don't like, it will eventually blow up in your own face - which is why normally you don't.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's not the 'parties', it's the fact that he's lied about everything at every turn.

His client journo twats need to take a look at themselves. Tom Harwood, I'm looking at you, and your allegedly ravaged arsehole.

[randomlegend]

He deserves to be finished for being a shit Prime Minister and all round waste of time, but it is a stitch-up that wouldn't pass any sort of actual legal standards. 'Impugning the Committee and thereby undermining the democratic process of the House' is like something from Turkey. As with America, if you start making this shit up on the spot to get people you don't like, it will eventually blow up in your own face - which is why normally you don't.

Yikes.

[Yevrah]

You shouldn’t be able to continually lie while being Prime Minister and the only ‘punishment’ be to lose that role and then your seat. Likewise in the US you shouldn’t be able to incite a riot. There’s no making things up here, it’s about as black and white as it gets.

[Lewis]

It's shit all the way down as far as procedure goes, but there are instances where the police didn't find anything to sanction him for, but the committee has decided that they ought to have done, so they have instead. I know people don't like Boris Johnson, but if they can't picture how that precedent could come to be abused then they are stupid.

[Yevrah]

You’re disingenuously conflating the legal matter of gatherings and continually lying to parliament. They’re not the same thing.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's shit all the way down as far as procedure goes, but there are instances where the police didn't find anything to sanction him for, but the committee has decided that they ought to have done, so they have instead. I know people don't like Boris Johnson, but if they can't picture how that precedent could come to be abused then they are stupid.

Maybe because the Privileges Committee rules on contempt of parliament and the police rule on the law?

[Lewis]

The committee has decided that he lied about things that the police were unable to pass a verdict on. Would you accept that in your job?

[Jimmy Floyd]

There is a higher evidential threshold for charging someone with a crime than there is for ruling that they lied to Parliament. Doesn't mean either set of people is wrong.

[Luke Emia]

It's shit all the way down as far as procedure goes, but there are instances where the police didn't find anything to sanction him for, but the committee has decided that they ought to have done, so they have instead. I know people don't like Boris Johnson, but if they can't picture how that precedent could come to be abused then they are stupid.

He lied and said ‘all rules were followed at all times’ and that he was assured of this, therefore the second anyone was found guilty of having attended a party he lied. Plenty were thus he lied.

Also he was never assured that the rules were followed and was actually told not to say that.

[Ben]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65930008

:facepalm:

[Yevrah]

The police wouldn't have found him guilty of breaking Acoba's rules...

[Jimmy Floyd]

Rates rise to 5%, compare and contrast the response from the two opposition parties.

Labour:

Today's rate rise creates an "incredibly worrying time" for many families, says Rachel Reeves.

Labour's shadow chancellor says increased mortgage repayments will "heap even more pain on ordinary working families".

Reeves says if she was chancellor she would instruct banks to support customers, for example by moving them onto interest-only products, extending their mortgage or by halting repossessions for six months.

On state support for mortgage holders, Reeves says given the high rate of inflation, "lots of untargeted fiscal support from the government is not the right response".

Lib Dems:

Liberal Democrat leader Sir Ed Davey has given his reaction to the interest rate rise.

He says it will "scar family finances for years to come - all because this Conservative government crashed the economy and sent mortgages spiralling".

He argues “homeowners are being treated as collateral damage".

“Rishi Sunak needs to provide targeted support to those hardest hit, instead of cruelly standing by as people worry about keeping a roof over their head," he says.

You can tell which of these is a serious party aspiring to government and which is a childish fucking joke of an organisation.

[Luke Emia]

Rates rise to 5%, compare and contrast the response from the two opposition parties.

Labour:


Lib Dems:


You can tell which of these is a serious party aspiring to government and which is a childish fucking joke of an organisation.

The Conservatives were fucked before but this could decimate them. Although it’s the BofE’s fuck up they’ve effectively left them to it when they should have been giving a steer in my opinion. Base rate at 6% will mean mortgage rates start at 7% and there is going to be a recession, making everyone skint a year before an election is not a good move.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah, they're pretty much boned either way, unusually for them they've probably actually taken the right decision in the national interest to hit mortgage payers where it hurts with interest rates rather than hitting everyone including the destitute with runaway inflation. However, it's going to cost them more acutely at the ballot box as that's all their voters.

[Luke Emia]

Yeah, they're pretty much boned either way, unusually for them they've probably actually taken the right decision in the national interest to hit mortgage payers where it hurts with interest rates rather than hitting everyone including the destitute with runaway inflation. However, it's going to cost them more acutely at the ballot box as that's all their voters.

The thing is though if the bank had been more hawkish in mid 2021 a lot of this could have been headed off. Banging up the rate then to 3% would have caused short term pain but it would have meant rates would have had to go nowhere near as high as they will have to go now.

Instead they continued to print money and just chucked petrol on the fire.

There’s been other acts of self sabotage though. Brexit no matter what you think of it has meant that the £ has traded about 10% lower against the $ for the last 7 years. When everything is paid for in dollars that’s an issue and that’s without even taking into account Truss doing to her best to make it 1 to 1.

Furlough was far too generous for the majority of people it should have been capped at 50% of salary seeing as you couldn’t fucking spend any money and the money wasted on the energy guarantee is horrendous.

People have to learn that everytime there is an issue they can’t just be bailed out by the state but this course of action seems a strange time to decide to do it if you want to do any good in an election.

[Boydy]

Yeah, they're pretty much boned either way, unusually for them they've probably actually taken the right decision in the national interest to hit mortgage payers where it hurts with interest rates rather than hitting everyone including the destitute with runaway inflation. However, it's going to cost them more acutely at the ballot box as that's all their voters.
It's not just mortgage payers though, is it?

1669653833063055360

[Jimmy Floyd]

Furlough I don't think was political but was just the state as a whole shitting its pants. You'd have needed the very strongest and clearest-minded of leaders not to succumb to the emotional depth charges at the time.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's not just mortgage payers though, is it?

1669653833063055360

Either way it's preferable to turbo-juicing food and energy prices to save mortgage holders.

[Luke Emia]

It's not just mortgage payers though, is it?

1669653833063055360

No it’s not but this is another government caused situation as well. For years they didn’t want to be landlords so encouraged buy to let(this was a Labour thing as well). Now that interest rates are rising homeowners won’t rent a house out at a loss this rents increase.

I’m not saying here that lots of landlords aren’t pricks it’s just that the way housing has been managed for the past 30 years has created this rental market.

[Spikey M]

Shut up Boydy, it only affects everyone with a home, what's the problem?

[phonics]

Interest rates stay at 0% for 15 years to bail out the people who fucked everything over in the first place: I sleep. Normal people get a few grand: This has caused the greatest economic fiasco in the history of this country.

[mikem]

Genuine question: Why is the framing that everyone who owns a home is affected? Does everyone in the UK have a variable rate mortgage?

Surely, fixed rate mortgage holders don’t see any change. New mortgages drop as some entrants decide to defer until home values drop enough to make a mortgage worth it. Similar interest rate changes in the US have led to falling home values even in markets like Seattle and Phoenix.

So why is it being discussed as a given that all mortgage holders are suddenly paying more? I’m curious because it seems an odd framing but I won’t pretend to understand UK mortgage structures which could account for it.

[Boydy]

Most people in the UK fix for 2 or maybe 5 years (some might do 10 but 2 and 5 are most common). That's a lot of people iver the this year and next that will be rolling off very low interest rate deals and having to renew on much higher rate deals.

We don't have fixed lifetime mortgages like the US has.

And some people will be on tracker rates or their lender's standard variable rate.

[mikem]

That’s the answer then, thanks. We have all of those products as well as fixed rates.

I just expect stories like this to be framed by the recession risk of business investment shifting to inventory, weak consumer demand, job cuts, and so on.

[niko_cee]

And infinite land and houses made of cardboard.

[mikem]

Meh, for all of us west of the Mississippi, we just get to blame everything on migrating Californians.

[phonics]

These people complaining about wages being too high (currently lower than 2008) need to be rounded up and killed. Would lower inflation by 2-3%

[Yevrah]

The Conservatives were fucked before but this could decimate them. Although it’s the BofE’s fuck up they’ve effectively left them to it when they should have been giving a steer in my opinion. Base rate at 6% will mean mortgage rates start at 7% and there is going to be a recession, making everyone skint a year before an election is not a good move.

I genuinely think a recession is the least of our worries with this. With the way it's going, if the BoE keep doing this, they're going to crash the housing market.

[phonics]

Oh no.

[Yevrah]

If you think that's actually a good thing, I can't really help you.

[Luke Emia]

I genuinely think a recession is the least of our worries with this. With the way it's going, if the BoE keep doing this, they're going to crash the housing market.

It’s not going to crash per se. There isn’t enough housing stock to crash it.

[Yevrah]

The thing is though if the bank had been more hawkish in mid 2021 a lot of this could have been headed off. Banging up the rate then to 3% would have caused short term pain but it would have meant rates would have had to go nowhere near as high as they will have to go now.

Given that this inflation is not born from rampant consumer spending, why would putting them up to 3% have made any difference whatsoever? Unless the BoE actually want people to be priced out of buying food, I can't see how this strategy has a hope in hell of ever working.

[phonics]

If you think that's actually a good thing, I can't really help you.

As someone who moved into the working world the year of the largest recession in 100 years and saw the system not only do nothing about it but double down on exactly the same shit that got them into that position in the first place. I could not give one iota of a fuck. What are they going to do? Stagnate wages some more? Give more money to the people who already have it?

[Yevrah]

As someone who moved into the working world the year of the largest recession in 100 years and saw the system not only do nothing about it but double down on exactly the same shit that got them into that position in the first place. I could not give one iota of a fuck. What are they going to do? Stagnate wages some more? Give more money to the people who already have it?

Bit like my view on PIF really, so fair, I guess.

[Yevrah]

It’s not going to crash per se. There isn’t enough housing stock to crash it.

What, even if a fixed rate mortgage is 10%+? That won't lead to a fuckton of repossessions?

[phonics]

The only thing this whole thing has taught me is how short mortgages are here. I wondered why prices were so high in Switzerland for places (outside of the obvious) but seeing this and then looking at a Swiss mortgage which is paid over the course of 100 years. Makes sense.

[Luke Emia]

Given that this inflation is not born from rampant consumer spending, why would putting them up to 3% have made any difference whatsoever? Unless the BoE actually want people to be priced out of buying food, I can't see how this strategy has a hope in hell of ever working.

Inflation was already running at 6% in mid 2021. Taking action then would have meant when Russia happened it wouldn’t have had such a massive impact as it did.

The property market for example needed cooling down at that point and people didn’t need access to cheap money like they had done during lockdown.

[Luke Emia]

What, even if a fixed rate mortgage is 10%+? That won't lead to a fuckton of repossessions?

No I think there will be some kind of fudge between the government and the banks whilst this goes on to stop things getting that severe.

I reckon 70% of people I do a mortgage for have a car on PCP this is the flip side of it choice between having a house and a car you hand back the fucking car. Some people do need to kind of learn to live with that as a choice.

[Boydy]

Question Time tonight is the one with the audience of all Leave voters. Might be interesting.

[randomlegend]

Escalation to five days for the next round of "Junior" Doctor strikes in mid-July.

Consultants to ballot on strike action soon as well.

Indefinite walk-out is coming :drool:

[Ben]

But Andrew Bailey said you should stop asking for wage rises. How dare you.

[Don]

As long as it won't risk patients' welfare :happycry:

[randomlegend]

Which it demonstrably doesn't, yes.

Consultants going on strike however could be spicy.

[Jimmy Floyd]

As long as it's not management consultants we'll be alright.

[Lewis]

As long as it won't risk patients' welfare :happycry:

This is where they don't go into work.

[randomlegend]

Consultants have voted (pretty emphatically) to strike as well.

:cool:

[Ben]

How are Thames Water in a position where they are asking for a government bailout a year on from £1.2bn dividends?

Of course they will be bailed out because we are in the stranglehold of “privatise profits, socialise debts” but really it ought to be seized back into public ownership and the crooks on the board thrown in jail because that is horrendous mismanagement.

[Yevrah]

The water companies are taking the absolute piss and all of the execs involved need firing into the sun.

[phonics]

The infrastcuture is as bad as it was pre-privatisation and 10x more expensive. I've never seen a better advert for nationalisation.

[Don]

The infrastructure does tickle me. Not to the extent where I've yet felt motivated enough to look into it but drought and hosepipe bans for a tiny island with its furthest point from sea coming in at 84 miles suggests something is wrong and it's not Giggles refusing to go vegan.

[Lewis]

The infrastructure was shit when the state ran it, and we've added ten million people to the population since (that we know about) without the government letting the companies build any new national-scale reservoirs. Hence, shortages. That said, if Thames Water does go down the tubes whilst putting its money elsewhere, it probably ought to just be re-nationalised for nothing and everyone involved banned from having anything to do with anything.

[phonics]

The infrastructure was shit when the state ran it, and we've added ten million people to the population since (that we know about) without the government letting the companies build any new national-scale reservoirs. Hence, shortages. That said, if Thames Water does go down the tubes whilst putting its money elsewhere, it probably ought to just be re-nationalised for nothing and everyone involved banned from having anything to do with anything.

Average dividend payouts of 2.1 billion pounds per year since privatisation...

Terminal 5 was fought by every hippy up and down the country and every mp in that area and still got done but it’s still the governments fault that a monopoly went bust. If private enterprise wants something done they pay the people that they need off to get it done. They didn’t want to.

[Lewis]

Investment has also doubled since privatisation, which is why water lost to leaks is down about half over the same period. The idea that it has been thirty solid years of ripping consumers off isn't really backed up by anything.

Terminal 5 took ten years to get planning permission, and Heathrow still doesn't have its third runway seventeen years after the first public consultation. If your point is that the government doesn't block infrastructure, do I have to post the extended history of the Abingdon reservoir again, or just that the government blocked it in 2011 because there was 'no immediate need' for it (population increase since: roughly five million)?

[phonics]

So what you're saying is that they've achieved largely nothing outside of making us leak a little less water (but increasing amounts of sewage) while taking massive amounts of money out of the system. So let's check their effectiveness over time.

https://www.ofwat.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Picture1-768x500.png

As yes, seems that they did some original investment and then did absolutely nothing but pillage the system ever since.

[phonics]

Meanwhile anyone who listens to this podcast should be removed from the electoral roll

1674194615220736000

[Lewis]

I don't think you should expect some sort of linear decrease down to zero leaks, since presumably at some point it becomes more cost effective to simply not dig up half the South East for pipe replacement. There was a very good Twitter thread (https://twitter.com/LoftusSteve/status/1659637753158545414) the other month about the current myths around sewage, and it sounds like, beyond challenges like rapid population increase, dealing with old infrastructure (and government blocking new infrastructure), and cunts flushing rubbish down the toilet, water is in pretty decent shape.

[Ben]

1674375287205769222

[Spikey M]

:D

[Don]

Labour should scrap the entire election campaign plan and just dish out printouts of that.

[randomlegend]

Why does Sunak always look photoshopped in even when he's not? I honestly don't think he's human.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Sunak would make Taz look big.

[randomlegend]

This NHS workforce plan is terrifying. Healthcare in this country is at the precipice and this will shove it flailing into the abyss. People should be very worried.

[randomlegend]

https://i.redd.it/mpvx4nlwsp9b1.jpg

:cool:

[niko_cee]

Oliver Dowden looks alarmingly like what I imagine Martin from Game On would look like now, and googling only confirms this in an even more alarming way.

[Shindig]

He looks like Charles Kennedy and Lembit Opik's test tube mistake.

[randomlegend]

This NHS workforce plan is terrifying. Healthcare in this country is at the precipice and this will shove it flailing into the abyss. People should be very worried.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-66168798.amp

These are the people they are trying to expand the workforce with. It's a fucking scandal.

Cue some boring comment from Lewis about doctor's killing people. This diagnosis wouldn't be missed by a second year medical student. It is terrifying these people are seeing patients independently and presenting themselves as equivalent to doctors.

Also, if a doctor missed that, they'd be hauled up in front of the GMC and lose their license (in fact they'd probably face criminal charges). Because PAs are completely unregulated, this person was sacked from the GP practice but is now locuming elsewhere in London and has faced zero other repercussions. It's absolute insanity.

[Don]

NHS Direct sends those symptoms to 999, the dumb bitch.

[Kikó]

Only way to learn is by doing. I'm sure she'll get it right next time.

[Don]

Scrapping IHT...fuck me :D

[niko_cee]

In fairness inheritance tax is an absolute rort.

[Don]

It needs tightening up and work done on it but there's no 'in fairness' here.

[Lofty]

I'm sure this won't adversely effect public finances at all the same party that had some wretch stood in Parliament the other day claiming the UK has taken 550 million immigrants in the last decade will have their sums right I'm sure.

[Lewis]

Talking about inheritance tax is the official 'we have run out of ideas' signal.

[randomlegend]

They never had any ideas. Corrupt, incompetent, rancid bunch of cunts.

[Spikey M]

In fairness inheritance tax is an absolute rort.

Inheritance in general is the rort. It only serves to keep the rich rich and the poor poor. It should be capped at 100k or something.

[niko_cee]

What about lifetime transfers of wealth? Should you be allowed to give your money away to others if you want or does the government need to vet everything everyone does?

Inheritance tax is a rort because, as with most aspects of the stupid British tax system, those who you'd want it to target avoid it entirely and so all it ends up doing is punishing those who, through choice or ignorance, structure their affairs poorly.

[Spikey M]

These are all loopholes that could be addressed if there were any appetite to.

I don't have an answers to everything, but generational wealth is stupid and directly hinders the growth they say they want. Capitalism has essentially been gamified and the "Completed it mate" elites are sitting on and hoarding anything worth a fuck. Usually from abroad, which isn't ideal. We are living in a real world game of GTA Online at the moment. If you got in early and got all the money, you're set. If you got in late, good luck. Maybe try a heist?

We're fucked.

[Offshore Toon]

Bring in UBI so we can all stop caring about money and just take on a couple cash in hand jobs each year for holidays.

[Don]

We had a £100 giftcard which is only reason we had to humour these cunts but a meal last night at a fairly ordinary restaurant cost £180 for 2 of us.

If you're not disabled/LGBTQIA+/reliant on unbreakable family bonds and you're not planning an exit route out this country, you have my sympathies.

[niko_cee]

I'm moving over in two weeks. :face:

[Luke Emia]

What about lifetime transfers of wealth? Should you be allowed to give your money away to others if you want or does the government need to vet everything everyone does?

Inheritance tax is a rort because, as with most aspects of the stupid British tax system, those who you'd want it to target avoid it entirely and so all it ends up doing is punishing those who, through choice or ignorance, structure their affairs poorly.

I still remember this from the very first day I started doing training in financial advice. Inheritance tax is ‘an optional’ tax. Anyone with enough money and planning doesn’t pay it or pays a minimum amount. The people who get caught by it bought a house for fuck all 40 years ago and now it’s worth £1.5 million.

[Boydy]

What about lifetime transfers of wealth? Should you be allowed to give your money away to others if you want or does the government need to vet everything everyone does?


Yes, the second one.

[Boydy]

These are all loopholes that could be addressed if there were any appetite to.

I don't have an answers to everything, but generational wealth is stupid and directly hinders the growth they say they want. Capitalism has essentially been gamified and the "Completed it mate" elites are sitting on and hoarding anything worth a fuck. Usually from abroad, which isn't ideal. We are living in a real world game of GTA Online at the moment. If you got in early and got all the money, you're set. If you got in late, good luck. Maybe try a heist?

We're fucked.
This is it, the system doesn't even work according to their own logic any more. It's just rent-seeking and regulatory capture.

[Jimmy Floyd]

No point even attempting punitive IHT, as Labour know. People want their money to go to their kids, not where some civil servant thinks it should go.

[Spikey M]

They do, but that's easy enough to deal with. What do most people inherit? Very fucking little. A house and some Argos jewelry if you're lucky. So ring-fence the deceased's main and principle home and £x of savings as tax free inheritance.

Then you spray paint "we will spend anything above and beyond this on the NHS and robotic anti-imigrant boat drones" on the side of a Bendy-bus, sit back and count your votes.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Then everyone would leave the maximum £ and give the rest away beforehand, necessitating Boydy's completely unworkable Ministry of Love style intrusion into how much cash grandma is putting in envelopes for the grandkids' birthdays.

[Spikey M]

Loop holes are easily closed if you wish to do so. That's the problem here, the lack of will because it would be against the best interests of the ruling classes.

[randomlegend]

https://i.redd.it/926uui8t2ccb1.jpg

Canadian medical association roasting Rishi on twitter :D

[Lewis]

How come British medical staff are so eager to work in systems that they would never support here in a million years?

[randomlegend]

The NHS is a great concept. The British government and public have made it abundantly clear they are not willing to fund it adequately in order to meet the increasing demands and costs placed upon it.

Instead, they have expected its workforce to shoulder the burden of both the increasing financial cost (through erosion of wages to divert money to pay for other parts of the service) and the increasing workload. Working conditions are absolutely appalling; I don't care how cliché it is, people who haven't worked in healthcare simply don't understand. They don't believe it can be as bad as it is, because they can't imagine surviving working in those circumstances.

We are no longer prepared to be sacrificed on the altar of the NHS. People want the NHS, they can pay for it properly and that means paying us properly, commensurate with our level of skill, training, education and responsibility as well as the huge financial costs we have to shoulder just to be able to work and progress. There is an international market for our us and if the British government and British public continue to treat us the way they do, we will go.

It's not our job to save the NHS in the face of a government trying to strip it to the bone and a public who couldn't give a shit.

[Spikey M]

The NHS gets £160 Billion a year.

A quick look at the numbers (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountri es/20), and we spend a bit more than Spain and Italy, a bit less than Ireland and Australia. Middle of the pack really.

I think most of the problem is with management. Not funding.

[Lewis]

Our government and the Canadian government spends the same on healthcare, but in Canada (and most other developed countries) their system of multiple providers allows for/requires private top-ups, which is what enables them to entice British doctors over and generate superior outcomes. I think most people with a bit of disposable income would be happy with a system like that if it gave them an element of control over their provision. If it's just more taxes down the toilet then you can't blame them for being against it.

[randomlegend]

Our government and the Canadian government spends the same on healthcare, but in Canada (and most other developed countries) their system of multiple providers allows for/requires private top-ups, which is what enables them to entice British doctors over and generate superior outcomes. I think most people with a bit of disposable income would be happy with a system like that if it gave them an element of control over their provision. If it's just more taxes down the toilet then you can't blame them for being against it.

Yeah. So if you want a free at the point of use service which isn't fucking falling apart, you'll have to pay more from taxes than Canada do.

If people don't trust the government enough to give them that money, perhaps they should stop voting these corrupt reptiles into power.

If people don't want free at the point of use, then they are going the right way about getting rid of it.

Doctors aren't even asking to be paid what they could get in Oz/NZ/Canada. Even with full pay restoration, we'd be earning way less than our international market rate and with infinitely worse working conditions. We're just asking not to be paid a third less than we were 15 years ago.

[Lewis]

Is the bolding a placeholder for where you stopped reading?

[randomlegend]

I mean I read everything after it, but placed no value on it because it's just your own meaningless conjecture based on nothing.

Firstly, a large portion of the population don't have any disposable income and secondly polls suggest that 84-90% of people still support a free-at-the-point of use tax-funded NHS.

https://www.health.org.uk/publications/long-reads/public-perceptions-of-the-nhs-a-winter-of-discontent


Support for the founding principles of the NHS remains as strong as ever. Most people still believe that the principles of the NHS being free at the point of delivery (90%), providing a comprehensive service (89%) and being funded through taxation (84%) should continue to apply today

[Lewis]

The Great British Public have also 'made it abundantly clear they are not willing to fund it adequately', according to you, so what do they know about anything? The healthcare 'debate' in this country is that the options are putting increasing amounts of money into Our NHS or the American system. Maybe if people knew what every other developed country has they might be more open to alternatives.

[randomlegend]

Ok, and?

You seem to think you've got doctors in some "gotcha", but I doubt you'll find many who would oppose a partially contributions based system at this point given (as I said) it's abundantly clear the government and public aren't prepared to fund a tax-funded system properly.

[Lewis]

We're back to the original question. If you believe that the public won't pay the taxes necessary to fund the National Health Service 'properly', rather than crying off to Australia or Canada or any other country with drinkable water, why not try and bring a bit of their system[s] here?

[randomlegend]

What planet are you living on where you think that's a) remotely our job and b) something we have literally any power to influence?

Boggles my mind that you genuinely believe we should not only be doing our own job 48+ hours a week but also reforming the health service in our spare time to help out this cretinous government.

[Lewis]

Not personally, but the British Medical Association or whoever could advocate and support reform along those lines, which would go some way towards helping any future government - who will also pay you the same amount, and struggle to wring any more taxes out of a reluctant population - sort things out. It seems like a win/win for any far-sighted medical interest, which we obviously don't have.

[randomlegend]

The NHS is not the unworkable system you want to paint it as.

It's this appalling, incompetent government who have got it into this state. I appreciate it's pointless having that discussion with you because you're an irrational fangirl, but that is the fact of the matter. Prior to this government, the NHS was in a far better state with far better outcomes and staff were far more fairly paid with far better working conditions. This is all measurably fact.

Doctors may be at the point where we'd reluctantly accept an Aussie style system coming in but that doesn't mean we'd actively campaign for it. The NHS is a workable system if properly funded under a competent government. It's not a workable system under a corrupt government who piss money away to their mates on PPE that has to be burned and deliberately grind it into the ground.

The money wasted on track and trace alone would've paid for restoration of doctors wages back to the levels we are asking for for 37 years.

[Lewis]

The thing currently consumes more money than it ever has, and currently costs the government slightly more than the 2019 Labour manifesto was promising to spend on it by this point. You do have to wonder what levels of specific incompetence are running riot in the Department of Health to be scuppering even Jeremy Corbyn-levels of health spending, which, according to their manifesto, were going to 'Rebuild Our Public Services'. It was still comparatively middling in 2010 after New Labour had put it on spending trajectories to consume the entirety of our tax take by 2040 (and that was on the assumption of reasonably consistent growth). We also have fifty per cent more over-sixties in the country now than in 2010, which, correct me if I'm wrong, hoovers up the majority of health spending. So yeah, with limitless funding and the ideal demographic profile, it's a perfectly workable system; but without those... Bearing those things in mind, and what you've said about the government (and any other government) being an issue, and the voters being an issue, it seems like an obvious benefit to take the politics out of the entire system like other countries largely have.

And yes, they could have given you all of the test 'n' trace money, but seeing as the vast majority of it went on the 'test' bit, we would have had to charge for those, and that would have been privatisation, which is bad.

[Shindig]

I with Lewis on that last sentence. Free tests ensured most people actually took them.

[randomlegend]

You do have to wonder what levels of specific incompetence are running riot in the Department of Health to be scuppering even Jeremy Corbyn-levels of health spending

You cannot even imagine.

[igor_balis]

Was finally persuaded by my mate to attend a local Labour Party event, at an Indian in town. I feel a bit like the Chinese fella in that father ted episode - well, the presentation was a pile of crap, but the curry, much appreciated!

Nah, in all seriousness it was fucking well rubbish. Is there a better encapsulation of post-Corbyn Labour than the fact that the two raffle prizes standing front and centre were books by Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell, and they were the first two to go before some nice whisky, some chocolates, and some beer (the tickets weren't assigned to specific prizes, whoever won first got to pick). The speaker was standing for some bullshit local thing like deputy commissioner of the West Midlands and Warwickshire assembly legislative council or some bollocks, i wasn't really paying attention, and he went on for NEARLY AN HOUR. At least my best man's speech was quick.

I'm not even saying this is worse for the party as a whole than the Corbyn days, it's prob much better electorally and all that shit, but jesus christ, I didn't exactly feel inspired to go fucking canvassing.

[randomlegend]

After their ABSOLUTELY FINAL OFFER AND WE WON'T TALK ABOUT IT AGAIN EVER offer, the government appear to have already come back to the negotiating table with the doctors.

:harold:

[niko_cee]

Grant Shapps Defence Secretary?

lol

[Ben]

At least he's only incompetent, rather than dangerous.

[Spikey M]

Got to have the big guns in charge of the big guns.

[randomlegend]

Junior doctor strike mandate extended after a 98% yes vote on a 71% turnout :cool:

[Lewis]

By all accounts Grant Shapps is reasonably competent, albeit in a rat-like man-on-the-make sense, which is probably why he has never had an important job before. Not that Minister of Defence does anything useful. They just get to take pictures with things whilst the Treasury and the services squeeze them either way. For all everyone raves about Ben Wallace it's hard to see what he did for our own capabilities in all his time on the job, and I don't blame the Americans for blocking his NATO aspirations if he really went round promising F-16s before agreeing it with them.

[Kikó]

Not sure on the right thread but read some grim news about a lad I used to play football with. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66637838.amp London 👎

[Lofty]

Gordon Brown got caught on a hot mic over a decade ago, how thick do you have to be to get caught on one in 2023?

[Boydy]

We've got no government AND no police chief now, what a place.

BBC News - PSNI police chief Simon Byrne resigns, BBC understands
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-66708101

[phonics]

Actual Anarchy in the UK :drool:

[Boydy]

1699127637598187843

[Spikey M]

:D Don

[Lofty]

No stairs for me even at a healthy weight then :D

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Team no stairs :cool:

[Spikey M]

I'm over 5 stone too light. :(

[Boydy]

1704513109484802558

Possible election being called?

[Boydy]

No, boring.

[phonics]

lol if you think the tories are calling an election a single day before they are legally obligated to.

[niko_cee]

Can't really get my head around this [apparent] scorched earth approach. Who is going to be wooed by this climate shifting? Presumably all the old people [I would imagine the target audience] will be seething too much about their pensions and every other potential voter has a myriad of other more pressing concerns than whether new petrol cars are still going to be for sale in 7 years.

[phonics]

1704526656264605927

[randomlegend]

They've completely lost the fucking plot :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

Can't really get my head around this [apparent] scorched earth approach. Who is going to be wooed by this climate shifting? Presumably all the old people [I would imagine the target audience] will be seething too much about their pensions and every other potential voter has a myriad of other more pressing concerns than whether new petrol cars are still going to be for sale in 7 years.

Trying to shore up the right at this point is genuinely mental. The right will be good boys and vote for them. The issue is the votes they lose to LDs and Labour.

Sunak is playing Westminster politics rather than national politics. I don't think he's cut out for politics at all. Policy, yes but thar's different.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Actually, the only thing I can think of is that he's trying to position himself either to remain as leader or to remain influential in some way after an election defeat.

[Lewis]

If he was appeasing the right the entire legal framework would be binned. These are pretty reasonable adjustments, but hyping them up like this is pointless on its own terms, and it just sets all the bullshit complex off catastrophising.

[niko_cee]

Trying to shore up the right at this point is genuinely mental.

Can only assume he's [they're] terrified of Deadly Dom's nascent this party will implode in X years party.

[niko_cee]

This Joe Biden on the picket line thing is a bit odd.

Not sure if the sight of him standing around like a lube waiting to be handed the megaphone or the secret service shitting themselves as he tries to interact with a bunch of black people is more amusing. Probably the secret service though, everything with them is so over the top.

[Don]

I used to walk past and survey the abomination on a daily basis but HS2 looks like it may be looked back on as a catalyst for change (and I don't just mean as a result of the fucking useless Indian cunt's imminent hanging) so fairplay.

[Lewis]

I find it hard to believe that it can't be done cheaper by eliminating a lot of the needless tunnel sections. The London to Birmingham leg is nearly all covered over because idiots complained. If not, force masses of other development on the bastards to recoup some of the cost like the olden days railway crooks did.

[Don]

1709539673259798814

I wish to retract any negative opinions I may have had on our incredible Indian leader :cool:

[Yevrah]

There definitely appears to be a growing sentiment on this issue that enough is enough.

[Lewis]

The replacement rail projects for 'The North' are a reasonable result out of the embarrassment, but what happens if/when they go drastically over budget as well? Also, this smoking ban idea is stupid.

[-james-]

Or they're just resorting to absolute gammon bait out of desperation.

[Spikey M]

They had Braverman going full National Front yesterday. They're definitely LURCHING to the right to win the pensioner votes back

[Jimmy Floyd]

Or they're just resorting to absolute gammon bait out of desperation.

It genuinely concerns me the direction they might go in after they lose. Corbyn-esque irrelevance beckons.

[niko_cee]

Some great stories to come out of all this whole HS2 debacle.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-67006024

It was probably Grant Shapps who bought it with some HS2 kickbacks when he was Transport Secretary.

[Lofty]

They had Braverman going full National Front yesterday. They're definitely LURCHING to the right to win the pensioner votes back

If only there was some obvious flaw in non-white politicians delivering 'send the buggers back' messaging.

[niko_cee]

Newsnight was a right laugh last night.

Poor Michele Donelan being rolled out in front of everyone to be absolutely battered.

Particularly liked the bit where she said with a straight face that it was legitimate to bundle the heckler out as he was seeking to curb Braverman's right to free speech. Obviously no double standard there whatsoever.

Then they had some Scottish woman Tory MSP the presenter just had to give up on and the director of Onward who looked about 12 but with the haircut and style of a 70 year old. Turns out he was 34.

[Lofty]

1709532174649614573

[Spikey M]

If only there was some obvious flaw in non-white politicians delivering 'send the buggers back' messaging.

I seem to remember The BNP or Britain First or whoever it was having a resident Sikh that they used to wheel out when they wanted to something really mental said.

It's quite clever really. "I'm not racist, I agree with a coloured".

[Boydy]

Newsnight was a right laugh last night.

Poor Michele Donelan being rolled out in front of everyone to be absolutely battered.

Particularly liked the bit where she said with a straight face that it was legitimate to bundle the heckler out as he was seeking to curb Braverman's right to free speech. Obviously no double standard there whatsoever.

Then they had some Scottish woman Tory MSP the presenter just had to give up on and the director of Onward who looked about 12 but with the haircut and style of a 70 year old. Turns out he was 34.
Sebastian Payne? Used to write for the Telegraph. Does indeed look like a weird adult child.

[niko_cee]

Like a lab grown Michel Gove.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Wait, I'm older than Sebastian Payne? That's a serious problem for us both.

[Lewis]

Everything Suella Braverman has said is true, but she's overseen record immigration into the country and seemingly hasn't done anything to reduce it, so it's a mixed bag for the fascism.

[Shindig]

Did Stop the Boats (tm) not work out?

[Spikey M]

Record immigration that we need if any of us want to retire because none of you cunts are having kids. Childless women were 1 in 20 in 1970. It's 1 in 4 now. The over 50's outnumber newborns for the first time in recorded history.

We need immigration or population decline is going to make this an even more grim shithole to live in.

[Pepe]

Record immigration that we need

Where do I sign up?

[Boydy]

Record immigration that we need if any of us want to retire because none of you cunts are having kids. Childless women were 1 in 20 in 1970. It's 1 in 4 now. The over 50's outnumber newborns for the first time in recorded history.

We need immigration or population decline is going to make this an even more grim shithole to live in.
And yet the government does nothing to make having kids easier or more attractive.

[Spikey M]

And yet the government does nothing to make having kids easier or more attractive.

Granted. Although to be fair similar stats are to be found in every developed nation. South Korea and Japan even more fucked than we are.

But yes. That should be a priority, but nobody is talking about it. Instead it's SMALL BOATS and INCREASING TAXES. Both of which are going to continue. The alternative is either even more debt, which is obviously not sustainable or find more costs to cut, which can only go so far.

And yet Dishi Rishi wants us to believe he's looking "long term", the populist twat.

[Lewis]

If we did need immigration in these numbers, which we don't unless the country exists to serve Uber Eats and crap universities selling visas, then it ought to be a lot more selective and with stricter residency conditions, rather than a load of Pakistanis, Indians, and other non-integrating retards who are liable to be 1) a lifetime drain on the Exchequer (either directly or through their dependents); and 2) adding weight to the ethnic strife down the line.

[Spikey M]

Selective how? It's all well and good saying only Doctors, business experts, etc. but the country and the economy needs plebs too, and if only me and Baz are producing them, then we're bang in trouble. Our kids can only clean so many Indian Doctors' toilets. They need some Balkan help here.

At some point it is going to end up having to be quantity over quality.

[Boydy]

Remember the days when we had all the eastern European tradesmen you could want? Now you can't get a plumber or a spark for months. Nice one, Lewis.

[Spikey M]

Remember the days when we had all the eastern European tradesmen you could want? Now you can't get a plumber or a spark for months. Nice one, Lewis.

On the other hand, Magic must have had toothache for atleast a year now, so it's swings and roundabouts really.

[niko_cee]

Work from home has, and will continue to, wreck the economy generally, particularly in the major cities. Nothing can function with 3 days a week as a best case scenario. It's better in the provinces, well, the one I'm in, as there are millions of pensioners who presumably prop up everything with all their disposable income, but in the end, if we are no longer committing to be out and about save for on our own selective terms nothing that you want to work will work, and so you'll use it even less/not at all. WFH and SOMA for all.

[Lewis]

The country doesn't need hundreds of thousands of foreign students insofar as it doesn't need half the universities it currently has, and they don't need to be carting their dependents over with them. The country doesn't need 'Turkish' barbers, hand car washes, couriers, and a load of other heavily-subsidised low wage workers when there are millions of people on some sort of out-of-work payments. Why is every security worker you ever see some bussed-in African or Indian? Why has British agricultural productivity uniquely flatlined over the last twenty years? The incentives for training and paying people are all over the place, and the people who ought to be complaining just ignore it because they think all immigrants are created equal and struggle with second order effects. And again, that's just the economic side of it.

[Lofty]

I thought they had shortsightedly incetivised farmers to put solar panels on their land as opposed to farming?

[Boydy]

Work from home has, and will continue to, wreck the economy generally, particularly in the major cities. Nothing can function with 3 days a week as a best case scenario. It's better in the provinces, well, the one I'm in, as there are millions of pensioners who presumably prop up everything with all their disposable income, but in the end, if we are no longer committing to be out and about save for on our own selective terms nothing that you want to work will work, and so you'll use it even less/not at all. WFH and SOMA for all.

How does wfh (let's be honest, it's pretty much only cushy office jobs that still do it) affect getting a tradesman, or a dentist or GP appointment?

[Shindig]

The only thing I can think of is WFH hitting the high street. Namely coffee shops and erm ... Greggs. But that hasn't really happened. Well, there's been some casualties in town but that's been replaced by those crafty Asians with their Boba Tea and Sushi joints. I'd take that over a half-empty street.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've been a careful watcher of the middle class high street in my home town (now 4 miles from where I live) all my life. It was dying a death before and during the pandemic but now in the last 18 months new life has been breathed into it. Shops have closed; the ironmonger is history, the card shop is dead and the pharmacy is no more, but those units have been gobbled up. Burger King has come, Kokoro has come, some fucking Persian shithole has come; so has an extra curry house in addition to the three already there. Why? Because everyone's getting fucking takeaways, all the time, without stopping.

[Pepe]

The country doesn't need 'Turkish' barbers, hand car washes, couriers, and a load of other heavily-subsidised low wage workers when there are millions of people on some sort of out-of-work payments.

How about artisanal lawn tenders?

[Yevrah]

I've been a careful watcher of the middle class high street in my home town (now 4 miles from where I live) all my life. It was dying a death before and during the pandemic but now in the last 18 months new life has been breathed into it. Shops have closed; the ironmonger is history, the card shop is dead and the pharmacy is no more, but those units have been gobbled up. Burger King has come, Kokoro has come, some fucking Persian shithole has come; so has an extra curry house in addition to the three already there. Why? Because everyone's getting fucking takeaways, all the time, without stopping.

And yet somehow doing that while we're in a 'cost of living CRISIS'.

[Raoul Duke]

Most of that is just the internet commoditising shite shops which have no real value. Their only USP was convenience and it's just as easy to click some buttons on your phone and get a delivery the next day.

[Spikey M]

I've just seen his smoking ban. What is the point in that exactly? There can't be many kids smoking cigarettes these days anyway. They're all in on vapes. They don't half like a pointless policy these lot. It's a good job they've already sorted everything important.

[Don]

1709560409156440266

And on some finer points Lewis can elaborate on:

1709679356342047023

[Lofty]

Is stand up and fight the new strong and stable?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Penny winning and blighting the airwaves with 5 years of that sub-GOT crap before losing by a landslide would be preferable to a few of the other options for after Rishi sails off to Sunset Boulevard.

[Manc]

Padded cell stuff. Every last one of them wants sectioning.

[niko_cee]

That road crossing video would have been made better if the arms out guy at the end had then been mown down by a car coming the other way.

What's the subtext there? People of certain ethnicity can't drive or just refuse to obey the rules of the road?

[randomlegend]

1709560409156440266



This is absolutely fucking deranged.

[Spikey M]

I love how chuffed she clearly was with it.

[Ben]

This bitch: "Freedom, that is what Conservatives do!"

Sunak: "No fags for you old man."

[Luke Emia]

Not even the most deranged person there though judging by Suella's performance.

[Lofty]

It seems like they sat down, realised they were fucked on their record, then brainstormed 'people don't like the ULEZ' and wrote FREEDOM on a whiteboard.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The tobacco thing is so strange. Must have come off some desperate focus group spreadsheet.

[Spikey M]

Probably. It feels like the sort of thing old people would care about because their friends are all dropping dead from Lung Cancer. They don't realise that barely anyone under 30 smokes cigarettes these days anyway.

[Ben]

They just don't know how to do politics anymore. At least they used to be successful cunts.

[niko_cee]

The tobacco thing is so strange. Must have come off some desperate focus group spreadsheet.

Isn't it just a copy and paste thing from PROGRESSIVE New Zealand?

[Waffdon]

Probably. It feels like the sort of thing old people would care about because their friends are all dropping dead from Lung Cancer. They don't realise that barely anyone under 30 smokes cigarettes these days anyway.

Huh

[Spikey M]

They just don't know how to do politics anymore. At least they used to be successful cunts.

Oh, absolutely, but they must be pulling this out of touch bollocks from somewhere

[Spikey M]

Huh

You guys live in the 80's.