UK General Election 2017 - 8 June

[mikem]

Between Picketty tracking wealth creation in Europe and the group studying intergenerational poverty among African Americans and Hmong migrants two things are clear. Capital has reinforcing principles. Groups also stay mired in poverty if they are unable to generate transferable wealth and are unable to weather shocks. Doesn't matter if you deny the poor access to capital through regulation or market forces. It is still denial. So I deserve your "what" for saying I'm more lefty.

I'm fine with the government providing housing, but I'd prefer if there were also options where the poor could own their own housing. I'd need to see a single long term historical example where the ruling class did not end up taking advantage of the people to believe in any utopias. I'm utterly ambivalent to how any of it would work. Wealth transfers through government paid mortgages, housing vouchers, whatever. Any old hammer will do. None of it is going to happen because everyone treats the underclass as tokens on a board.

[Pepe]

Who is against the poor owning their own houses?

[mikem]

I misconstrued your asset comment then.

[Pepe]

Don't know. I do have an issue, in principle, with people profiting from houses. I don't think that no one should own a house, or that it should be illegal to sell it for more than you paid for. When people buy/rent/sell housing with the sole purpose of profiting, then it gets a bit sketchier, in my opinion.

[Spammer]

Why's that?

I own a house now and intend on renting this out and buying another once I've got enough equity/savings to do so. I'll make sure the house I'm renting out is in good condition and will only be looking to cover my own mortgage/insurance costs because I see it as a safety net that I can rely on to sell or live in if something were to go tits up in other areas of my life. As far as I can see, someone will be getting a house at a decent rental level and I'll be ensuring my financial future.

Maybe if I owned 30 houses and didn't give a shit about their upkeep or the tenants so long as I get as much money as possible, then yeah that's a bit shit. I'd prefer to be more personable and be decent about it though, and I don't really see a problem with that.

[Reg]

Why's that?

I own a house now and intend on renting this out and buying another once I've got enough equity/savings to do so. I'll make sure the house I'm renting out is in good condition and will only be looking to cover my own mortgage/insurance costs because I see it as a safety net that I can rely on to sell or live in if something were to go tits up in other areas of my life. As far as I can see, someone will be getting a house at a decent rental level and I'll be ensuring my financial future.

Maybe if I owned 30 houses and didn't give a shit about their upkeep or the tenants so long as I get as much money as possible, then yeah that's a bit shit. I'd prefer to be more personable and be decent about it though, and I don't really see a problem with that.
Personally, I think what you're doing is alright but it's the super-rich who buy property in London knowing they can take the piss with rent that doesn't sit right. Especially at a time when there's many in need of housing.

[Lewis]

This Brexit documentary reveals that Nigel Farage is actually David Brent.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This Brexit documentary reveals that Nigel Farage is actually David Brent.

Didn't you know who suggest as much in his recap?

[niko_cee]

Personally, I think what you're doing is alright but it's the super-rich who buy property in London knowing they can take the piss with rent that doesn't sit right. Especially at a time when there's many in need of housing.

This doesn't happen though, does it? I mean, the super rich firstly don't need the rental income, and secondly, aren't going to be getting it off housing benefit bods even if they do fancy some, are they?

Unless I'm misunderstanding your complaint and you're really just not a big fan of the Duke of Westminster lolling at anyone who wants to live in Belgravia, to which there is an eminently easy solution.

[Bam]

If you're only going to only cover the mortgage and insurances in rent, basically no profit, how will you cover the upkeep for the property? Hammer

[Spammer]

If you're only going to only cover the mortgage and insurances in rent, basically no profit, how will you cover the upkeep for the property? Hammer

Sorry I just wasn't being detailed in my explanation. I'll factor a bit in to cover that too - my point is that my priority is simply to charge enough to cover the general running costs and upkeep of the place.

[Bam]

I take it you do know how much it cost to upkeep a property?

I'm only saying this as it seems you have a very naive view of how the rental market works, if you want to keep it a decent condition that is.

[niko_cee]

Monster!

He'll obviously just charge a market rent for it, and see if that covers costs, and if it doesn't either sell it, or stick more in himself.

[GS]

Plus taxes to buy it, potential tax on the rental income depending on the extent of revenue generation (if any after costs), and the tax you're going to pay if you sell it.

[Reg]

I mean foreign buyers who don't live here, by the way.


Led by investors from Hong Kong and Singapore, foreign buyers snapped up 3,600 of London’s 28,000 newly built homes between 2014 and 2016

More than 70% of the homes bought by foreigners were as rental investments
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/13/foreign-investors-snapping-up-london-homes-suitable-for-first-time-buyers

I'm not saying it's the only reason for high rent, more stating that morally I don't think it's right.

(edit: @niko)

[Bam]

Monster!

He'll obviously just charge a market rent for it, and see if that covers costs, and if it doesn't either sell it, or stick more in himself.

Well that sounds like a cracking way to fuck up. You have to run it like a business otherwise you may as well give it away.

[niko_cee]

No point arguing with a mogul. Or do you prefer 'magnet'?

[Bam]

I'll have magnet. Thanks student, or do you prefer soap dodger?

[niko_cee]

I thought you would.

Over a decade since I've been a student, although I haven't showered in several days, so you've got me there.

[Bam]

I thought you would.

Over a decade since I've been a student, although I haven't showered in several days, so you've got me there.

Well your looking at the rental market from a students point of view. I'm only offering Hammer some advice that doing what he's looking to do won't work.

[Spammer]

I take it you do know how much it cost to upkeep a property?

I'm only saying this as it seems you have a very naive view of how the rental market works, if you want to keep it a decent condition that is.

Maybe it's you that's being naive, seen as you're going off like this without knowing anything about my situation :box:

I really haven't crunched the numbers yet as it's a good 3-5 years before I'd need to think about it, as I've only just moved into the place myself. I'm not sure what's naive about it though. I'm going to start renting two of the rooms out while living in it myself which will cover the vast majority of the monthly mortgage and bill payments, so I’ll be able to overpay a fair amount on the mortgage over the next five years and can expect a reduction in the monthly payments eventually as a result. If I need to rent it at the standard rate in order to cover for everything then yeah, that's what I'll do.

[Bam]

Well you made it sound a lot different in your original post.

But yeah, you're even more naive if you think that's all going to work out without any life changes.

[Spammer]

I wasn't very detailed in listing every cost associated with renting a property out to someone. Other than that, I'm not sure what you're on about. The only point I was making is that my main interest in it is the long-term financial security involved in building up equity in it. Of course I'll make sure I cover all my costs.

[Bam]

you seem to have got a bit mighty about buying your first property, concentrate on upgrading to the house you want before getting into the renting market.

[niko_cee]

Should have ended that with a 'son'.

[Bam]

Was that your student mate?

[niko_cee]

Yeah, you know him? He's the one buying most of those London new builds.

[Spammer]

you seem to have got a bit mighty about buying your first property, concentrate on upgrading to the house you want before getting into the renting market.

As I said, it'll be another 3-5 years before I even think about it properly.

Eejit.

[Yevrah]

Dimbleby. :cool:

Worst audience ever.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I was thinking that. Has politics just turned into a violent shouting match now?

Absolutely no thought going into anything from either audience or participants (except for Oborne who has gone stark raving mad), just maniacally shouting down people you don't like.

Come back 'You sold them weapons!', all is forgiven.

[Lewis]

I think once Brexit has gone through we should all retire from caring about this stuff.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've definitely come round to your thoughts about 15 years of Corbyn communism being worth it for Brexit.

[Magic]

you seem to have got a bit mighty about buying your first property, concentrate on upgrading to the house you want before getting into the renting market.

:D

[Lewis]

For what it is worth, I reckon the next Conservative leader will see Jezza and Co[mmunists]. off anyway.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There are 3 key things in our advantage, which are:

a) he's shit
b) he's thick
c) he's old, which means he won't be around forever, and will the communists have the same pull without his cheery homeless hugging? I don't think so.

[GS]

He's also terrible in the Commons, and his MPs still think he's absolutely shit. He had a good campaign, but that was largely on the back of May unraveling and a manifesto that promised everything.

I suspect the number will prove soft as people are reminded that he's not actually very good, and they maintained an almost admirable vagueness over Brexit which won't stand up when vote after vote is going through the Commons.

That said, I do think the Tories need to get back to the economy. Plenty of positives to highlight, and they can't assume for the next time that they've basically got that argument won and locked down. If it was still in play, Jez would have been lolled out of the campaign.

[phonics]

Ah the 'Conservatives are going to win a 100 seat majority' crowd are back on their bullshit. Only took 2 weeks.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It was one of those elections where any other Tory would have stuffed Corbyn, and any other Labour leader would have stuffed Theresa May.

[phonics]

If they had someone that could easily stuff him as you put it, there'd be an election right now.

And the latter is just complete bollocks, you think there would be such a turnout for Owen fucking Smith?

[GS]

The question should almost be how Labour only managed to scrape back to 2010 levels, especially when you look at the absolute state of the manifesto and May's campaign.

[phonics]

Because Scottish Labour are dogshit.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If they had someone that could easily stuff him as you put it, there'd be an election right now.

And the latter is just complete bollocks, you think there would be such a turnout for Owen fucking Smith?

Corbyn is one of those leaders who, were he right wing, would be called 'divisive'. Some love him, but millions hate him and everything he stands for. Those same millions won Labour three elections just a decade or so ago. Impossible now.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Because Scottish Labour are dogshit.

The Lib Dem collapse balances that out. By turning to Cable they will become entirely Labour-facing too.

[phonics]

Corbyn is one of those leaders who, were he right wing, would be called 'divisive'. Some love him, but millions hate him and everything he stands for. Those same millions won Labour three elections just a decade or so ago. Impossible now.

The amount of Labour voters who hate Blair is => those who hate Corbyn.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah but Blair attracted habitual Tories as part of his winning coalition. Corbyn will never do that.

If he does go on to gain 70+ seats at the next election for a majority then fair play but inhabiting the south as I do, I really don't see thousands flipping for him unless the Tories get really significantly worse than they already are (eg. hard right loonies win the leadership).

[Lewis]

My theory is that it ought to be easier for the Conservatives to win enough Southern fannies back/over to form a majority than it would be for Jezza to get a million decent people on side. I don't see the need to think about it beyond that, but I think it rests on not letting Boris 'Boris' Johnson have anything to do with it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Short of Ruth coming down from the north like Mance Rayder, I can't think of anyone charismatic enough from the current crop other than Boris.

If Spreadsheet Phil gets the gig I'll just give up and vote Labour.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Also, having been into the M&S Food Hall this lunchtime (which is basically Tory HQ) I'm not feeling many Ruth voters in there, which is a shame because she's the best by miles.

[phonics]

I think you're over-rating Boris' charisma. It was entertaining on HIGNFY 15 years ago, it's rather tiresome at this point. Death by over-exposure.

[Lewis]

Hey, it's Brexit Day today. God that will never be topped. :drool:

[GS]

The aftermath has been absolutely spectacular.

"I want my country back!!"

[Jimmy Floyd]

A.C. Grayling's twitter feed alone is mroe than justification for voting Leave.

[Mellberg]

The nerve of trying to speak with authority on the results of the next election :D

Doubt there's enough egg left in the country for a second round.

[Spammer]

It's great isn't it :D

[Pepe]

When someone has been following for this long, he knows. How dare you doubt that.

[GS]

I must have missed Jeremy Corbyn winning the election, there.

Can someone link me?

[Pepe]

Here:

http://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/showthread.php?1768-Corbyn-the-unelectable

[Mellberg]

I must have missed Jeremy Corbyn winning the election, there.

Can someone link me?

I never called it. You, however, put your house and manhood on a Tory landslide. Nailed on with a new leader though, ay?

[GS]

Probably, yes.

The Tories ran the worst campaign in history (no exaggeration) and still won 50+ seats more than them.

[phonics]

I must have missed the Conservatives winning a 100 seat majority and Labour not winning an election for the next 30 years.

[Yevrah]

I think you're over-rating Boris' charisma. It was entertaining on HIGNFY 15 years ago, it's rather tiresome at this point. Death by over-exposure.

Absolutely bang on.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That's all very well but he's a recognisable figure who can make arguments for things in a way people relate to, you trot out Hammond or Rudd and it'll just be Theresa mkII.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hey, it's Brexit Day today. God that will never be topped. :drool:

As if on cue, he's put another blog up. Quite, quite mad.

[Henry]

Probably, yes.

The Tories ran the worst campaign in history (no exaggeration) and still won 50+ seats more than them.

Weren't you claiming that campaigns didn't matter, and predicting a large majority right up until the vote?

Yet your clairvoyance apparently has merit again now, because reasons.

[Lewis]

As if on cue, he's put another blog up. Quite, quite mad.

Do you detect a whiff of fascism about him? His arguments ought to drive towards the government simply doing less, and having people fuck up on their own accord; but he seems overly obsessed with everything being run like the space programme.

'Not poems and rubbish. Science! So we can get everything working.'

I e-mailed him in February about his systems management blog to ask whether he had looked at financial aspects of it all (my theory being that we had much less trouble from a management perspective than the Americans building our missile because we knew what we wanted and they just pissed money everywhere), and he said it could not have been done under a 'normal budget'. Well, yeah. It's a crap example.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Do you detect a whiff of fascism about him? His arguments ought to drive towards the government simply doing less, and having people fuck up on their own accord; but he seems overly obsessed with everything being run like the space programme.

'Not poems and rubbish. Science! So we can get everything working.'

I e-mailed him in February about his systems management blog to ask whether he had looked at financial aspects of it all (my theory being that we had much less trouble from a management perspective than the Americans building our missile because we knew what we wanted and they just pissed money everywhere), and he said it could not have been done under a 'normal budget'. Well, yeah. It's a crap example.

I'd say he is more of an idealist than a fascist. He never seems interested in practical politics of situations, he just wants everyone fired and replaced by nuclear physicists because he knows it would work better that way. I suppose if you enter Dom Cummings world and have us churning out 100,000 maths and physics grads a year from the education system, then you don't necessarily need the government to splash out on it at a higher level.

His Leave campaign was probably the most spectacular one-man donning in the whole of democratic history (they are getting like 38% without him), so I'm prepared to run with it all. He's probably minimum 50 years ahead of his time.

[Lewis]

He makes me think of people like Malcolm Campbell throwing their lot in with Oswald Mosley because everything ought to have been done in land speed record time.

[Spoonsky]

The question should almost be how Labour only managed to scrape back to 2010 levels, especially when you look at the absolute state of the manifesto and May's campaign.

:D

I'm sorry but...

[ItalAussie]

Only GS could paint this result as positive for the Tories. It almost toppled the Prime Minister, for heaven's sakes. :D

[GS]

I'm not painting it as a positive, you know. The manifesto was a clear turning point by being relentlessly negative and without a single positive policy to sell - and May compounded it by being dreadful. Their vote still held up, mostly - and they took huge swathes of the UKIP vote - but the relentless negativity of the dementia tax etc. drove people into voting for Labour where they otherwise wouldn't have. They chucked an increased majority through hubris and incompetence, although this largely seems to be the fault of May's core team overruling the actual campaign chiefs constantly.

The one mistake I made, which I'll admit to, was assuming that people would back away from voting for a terrorist-supporting communist. Clearly there are entire rafts of people in the country who don't understand what the IRA campaign was about (or Jez's quite abhorrent views on the subject), or who don't realise that socialism nearly destroyed the country. There's work to do to make these people realise the stupidity of what he stands for, but then you're up against promises of free tuition and HOPE so you're probably fucked.

In the end, it was much like the American campaign. Any competent mainstream Labour leader would have taken another 30 seats and become PM with a coalition of chaos and Cameron would have won a landslide. They were, and are, both dreadful.

[phonics]

Please, please stop trying to pass off your opinion as fact. Especially when it's as dumb as 'Owen Smith would have won more seats.'

[GS]

I fear you don't fully grasp just how much of a lunatic Wor Jez really is.

Anybody voting for him will deserve to have their assets requisitioned on them, frankly.

[Henry]

It's also as if you don't realise why people are voting for him or how bad the Tories have been.

[GS]

People swallowing his particular brand of economic lunacy as a solution would be very quickly disillusioned once he was in power for two years.

Food banks would look like a cakewalk once we started rationing electricity and telling the civil service only to bother coming into work three days a week because the infrastructure can't cope with anything more.

Again, there is insufficient understanding amongst the general populace about the damage which hard left philosophy has wrought everywhere it's been tried. That there are still ostensibly 'intelligent' people advocating it as a solution to anything remains one of life's great mysteries.

[Byron]

Fuck me :D

Apparently the reason Trump and Brexit won was because of the Left's arrogance in not understanding their policies and how the Left was astoundingly arrogant in thinking that 'had the populace been smarter they would have understood!

Then GS comes in with enough hypocrisy to cover all of Southern England.

[GS]

The political classes of the left are routinely perplexed that people vote against what they see as their own self-interest. They can't understand why people from a working class background would vote for the Conservatives, or why they'd vote for a Trump who's going to cut taxes for the wealthy. They think that everybody should be behind them because it is obviously for these people's own interest. That's a criticism of the political class, not the voter. They're two separate issues.

However, perhaps what we've seen here are significant chunks of the electorate finally suspending critical thinking in the face of unashamed "pro-having cake and pro-eating cake" policies like stealing tax money from the poor to pay for Etonians and Oxbridge graduates to get free tuition.

[Henry]

The political classes of the left are routinely perplexed that people vote against what they see as their own self-interest.


That there are still ostensibly 'intelligent' people advocating it as a solution to anything remains one of life's great mysteries.

:harold:

[GS]

Yes, the political classes of the left think poor people should vote for them en masse because they (the political class) think it is in the poor's self-interest to do so. That it's a stupid system discredited by precedence appears to have passed them (the political class) by, since it would inevitably impoverish everybody. It amazes me that supposedly intelligent people, aware of this precedent in every country where it has been tried, seem to think it'll be different next time if only it's done "properly".

Your failure to grasp the point is becoming routine.

[Henry]

One would think that getting things so badly wrong about voters might inspire a little humility. But no - you've simply moved from fanatically preaching one narrative to fanatically preaching another.

:D

[GS]

As I acknowledged, I didn't think so many people would be prepared to support a terrorist-supporting communist. It's clear there is work to do for the Tories, in terms of making people realise the basic economic argument isn't yet won. This is unfortunate, but can be rectified. As I further acknowledged, it seems clear that people voting for him don't know who the IRA are, what his view was, or why it should matter.

Regardless, that's quite some statement from a grown man continuing to advocate student union style socialist policies. One should be inherently suspicious of this sort of political outlook from anybody who isn't 19 - it suggests an inability, or indeed an unwillingness, to change one's mind regardless of fact. You've read a decent amount too, so you can't plead ignorance about the damage it's caused.

[Henry]

Either you don't know what I advocate, or you don't understand it and put everything to the left of Thatcherism into the same "Marxist commie" box.

[GS]

I see. Your version of it all would be "done properly" and would thus avoid the inevitable tanking and desperate scrambling to prevent all-out collapse.

I'm surprised nobody has thought of "doing it properly" before.

[Henry]

My version of "it".
"It" presumably being some form of Leninism.

[Boydy]

I'm advocating gulags and you're fucking going to one.

[GS]

My version of "it".
"It" presumably being some form of Leninism.

Enlighten us, then. Ideally with some historical or contemporary examples of why what you're proposing would work.

[phonics]

I'm advocating gulags and you're fucking going to one.

:D

[phonics]

Enlighten us, then. Ideally with some historical or contemporary examples of why what you're proposing would work.

Dear bruhnaldo,

The only thing people are advocating is you add a little humility to your 'I know better than everyone exactly what will happen going forward forever because I understand politics and no-one else does' take.

[Spikey M]

I advocate an age cap on people over 60. Murder the lot of them.

[phonics]

'Corbyns Run' :drool:

[GS]

I'm advocating gulags and you're fucking going to one.

I'd bribe a comrade to let me escape, although whether it would be better to do it during the Two Minutes Hate or the now-mandatory afternoon tea break is something I'd decide on the day.

[Shindig]

'Corbyns Run' :drool:

I can't help but imagine the most British queuing.

[Lewis]

If everyone over sixty was done in the NHS budget could be about a third of what it is, so that might actually be the best bet for ever having a low spending/low taxing country again.

[Shindig]

Free Hotpoint fridge for every retirement home.

[Pepe]

GS, you really are something special. :D

[phonics]

Guys I found GS' twitter account.

http://imgur.com/ttLjtQC.png

[Spikey M]

If everyone over sixty was done in the NHS budget could be about a third of what it is, so that might actually be the best bet for ever having a low spending/low taxing country again.

We'll have to add on the Euthanasia costs, but otherwise we're golden #SaveOurNHS

[GS]

GS, you really are something special. :D

Right, to be quite blunt about this I would be considerably less exercised by the Corbynista cult if it wasn't for his continued support for the IRA. His socialism is entirely secondary to this.

Whatever anybody says, there is no explanation or equivocation, explicit or implicit, that can be offered which excuses his views or behaviour. To see his support for murderers repackaged as "helped bring peace to Northern Ireland" is genuinely offensive. To see him recast as some benign visionary ahead of his time is an affront.

Until people 'get' this, I'm not sure they will fully grasp the unpleasantness of seeing people fete him as some sort of hero. He's a cunt, and I don't really care what his views on austerity are.

[Boydy]

Up the RA!

[GS]

By the way, the irony of these Glastonbury wankers who were DEVASTATED by the Leave vote last year suddenly cheering to the rafters a man whose office actively sabotaged the Remain campaign is some fucking effort.

[Spikey M]

https://twitter.com/LaughingAtLefty/status/878656836567805953

dem tiddies doe

[Waffdon]

up the ra!

we are the wolftones

[Lewis]

The other week I told somebody on Facebook (I know) that Jezza supported the IRA, and they advised me not to be taken in by 'Brit Army propaganda'. Alright mate.

[Henry]

GS - my political heroes are George Orwell, Nye Bevan, John Hume, James Connolly, Noam Chomsky, Bernie Sanders, Evo Morales, Tony Benn. And now Jeremy Corbyn. You are welcome to check what each of them stand for and what they achieved. You are also welcome to stop conflating them with Leninists, or any derivatives thereof, whom I despise.

If we'd been ruled exclusively by Tories and other neoliberals throughout the 20th century, we would have no social safety net, no NHS, few labour rights, lower wages and even less social cohesion. History has been good enough to run this experiment for us - the impact of social democracy on its politics explains all all of the good ways in which the UK is different to the US.

[GS]

The other week I told somebody on Facebook (I know) that Jezza supported the IRA, and they advised me not to be taken in by 'Brit Army propaganda'. Alright mate.

Well, this is it isn't it. Either you don't know about and vote for them anyway, which would be bad. Or you know about it and vote for them anyway, before trying to justify it, which is far worse.

[Lewis]

Not that there is much rightness in the idea generally, but 'Tories and other neoliberals' isn't really a thing if you're talking about the entire twentieth century.

[Henry]

Pre-Thatcher, just read the Tories then. And of course you won't agree with the idea, but as GS would proclaim, you're wrong.

[Lewis]

Even if you go from the Second World War (since all of the early welfare programmes were introduced by free-trading liberals) you have things like Winston Churchill promising a 'cradle to the grave' welfare system in 1943 (let's not pretend he never wanted any sort of welfare provision); the Education Act 1944 (R. A. Butler); Factories Act 1961; Contracts of Employment Act 1963; Employment Rights Act 1996; and, let's not forget, all of the trade union legislation that, rather than attacking unions, merely made them more accountable and democratic, as well as removing their coercive powers (the fact that it is always framed as being confrontational tells you a lot). Social cohesion I will give you, since they oversaw much of the early immigration damage.

It's not exactly a comprehensive programme, but nor is it reflective of your alternate reality. It's a bit like saying that without occasional periods of Conservative government we would have joined the Warsaw Pact.

[Henry]

To the extent that the Tories co-operated in the implementation of those sorts of things, it's because Labour had moved the political goalposts. It's like how they can't just dismantle the NHS.

[GS]

That's convenient. Labour had been out of power for ten years minimum in the last three examples he cites and he hasn't needed to mention things such as the Disabled Persons Act under Thatcher, Disability Discrimination Act under Major, or older examples such as the extension of suffrage under Baldwin.

It's just not accurate to pretend that all such changes have been driven by one party. There have been plenty of perfectly decent campaigners on both sides e.g. Barbara Castle.

[Haystacks Horace]

Why do we have to choose between misguided, limp wristed liberalism and evil, rich man's Thatcherism light.

[phonics]

Having seen this Glastonbury bit, I have to say that 'Oh, Jeremy Corbyn' is rubbish. Can we get a 'hes got a magic hat' remix and just replace hat with tree. I tried to make one myself but I couldn't find anything that rhymed with 'requisition your house and turn it into a homosexual commune'.

[Mellberg]

Unionist paddy capitalist in anti Corbyn shocker.

With a dash of autism.

[Magic]

Did anyone see the WENGER OUT flag? :D

Sad cunts.

[GS]

Unionist paddy capitalist in anti Corbyn shocker.

With a dash of autism.

Terrorist supporting Jeremy Corbyn.

It's important you give him his full title, lest your acquiescence in his support for murder be overlooked.

[Jimmy Floyd]

All hail the Ulsterman. Now watch everyone cry about it for five years/however long this shitshow lasts.

[Henry]

Frankie Boyle had it right. A partnership between the Tory party and the political wing of the Old Testament.

It doesn't get more shit than this.

[phonics]

I've been workshopping a joke about political dinosaurs walking the earth the same time as man for weeks and it's just not coming together. Needed the DUP to hold out a while longer for peak favs.

[GS]

But Wor Jez won the election, apparently.

It's going to last for ages, too.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Frankie Boyle had it right. A partnership between the Tory party and the political wing of the Old Testament.

It doesn't get more shit than this.
Where once you had Engels, Luxemburg and Fanon, now you have Frankie Boyle. I believe that's called progress.

[Lewis]

The Old Testament has a better record in government than any of their ideas.

[Henry]

Where once you had Engels, Luxemburg and Fanon, now you have Frankie Boyle. I believe that's called progress.

The successor to Winston Churchill is Teresa May.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I am lolling quite hard at some of the hissy fits about this DUP deal. If you got your beloved proportional representation, this would happen EVERY SINGLE ELECTION.

[Yevrah]

What did May have to offer up to seal the deal?

[Jimmy Floyd]

£1 billion of extra money for projects in Northern Ireland (including broadband, infrastructure, mental health, deprived communities, and something else I can't remember).

Also they had to ditch the winter fuel and pensions changes.

[GS]

Not that I expect anything different, but the constant stream of shit that this "damages the peace process" is complete bollocks. Stephen Kinnock is the latest wanker.

You think they'd get a grip.

[phonics]

I am lolling quite hard at some of the hissy fits about this DUP deal. If you got your beloved proportional representation, this would happen EVERY SINGLE ELECTION.
I don't think coalitions are peoples issue, more those that they're coalescing with, especially when it's a party like the Tory's whose position on things like gay marriage came somewhat begrudgingly.

[GS]

The hypocrisy of that is astounding, mind you. For all the talk that the EU is some sort of bastion of liberalism, Merkel won't have gay marriage in Germany and seven EU countries don't even allow civil partnerships. Yet leaving is a national catastrophe on power with the loss of the thirteen colonies.

That these people only woke up to Northern Irish politics about a fortnight ago is the reason why you have the reaction you do.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't think coalitions are peoples issue, more those that they're coalescing with, especially when it's a party like the Tory's whose position on things like gay marriage came somewhat begrudgingly.

Well it happened to the Lib Dems last time didn't it. Basically the theme is if you make any sort of deal with a party more right wing than yourself, you are a TRAITOR.

Remember this for when Jezza sells out to get Lib Dem and SNP votes.

[Lewis]

You would think extra money for the poorest part of the country would have been welcomed. She can't win bless her.

[Disco]

Or when Gordon Brown sounded out the DUP (among others) about a coalition in 2010.

[Henry]

I look forward to the new eight lane motorway linking Ballymena with Limavady.

[phonics]

The hypocrisy of that is astounding, mind you. For all the talk that the EU is some sort of bastion of liberalism, Merkel won't have gay marriage in Germany and seven EU countries don't even allow civil partnerships. Yet leaving is a national catastrophe on power with the loss of the thirteen colonies.

That these people only woke up to Northern Irish politics about a fortnight ago is the reason why you have the reaction you do.

I was at a Pride march attacking Merkel (and Switzerlands policies) on this topic, literally yesterday. It's almost like people can hold multiple opinions at once. Incredible.


Or when Gordon Brown sounded out the DUP (among others) about a coalition in 2010.

Famously popular politician, Gordon Brown.

[GS]

You've missed the point.

[phonics]

No you've tried to dog whistle something away by going 'Look those people over there do it too!' while not having a point.

[phonics]

Meanwhile, Gideons having a great time

http://i.imgur.com/8PrfuPw.png

[Jimmy Floyd]

Sometimes you need to deal with cranks in order to make things work. Same reason we sell arms to Saudi Arabia. If you set out to war with moral purity on your banner, you won't last long.

[GS]

You've missed the point, haven't you, because the people crawling out of the woodwork to complain about gay marriage (devolved) in Northern Ireland have been the same people who've lamented the leave vote as some sort of nativist convulsion that wants to roll the clock back to 1831 - despite the EU's track record on the same subject which is less than positive.

I'm not sure you understand what dog whistle politics is either, but I don't have the patience for it.

[phonics]

I'm not sure you understand what dog whistle politics is either, but I don't have the patience for it.

Yeah that was a poor use, hitting work deadlines and arguing on the internet force verbal short hand sometimes.

[GS]

In the interests of balance, let's all remember that the DUP leveraged £1.2bn out of Labour in 2008 to vote for the 42 day detention period.

[phonics]

In the interests of balance, let's all remember that the DUP leveraged £1.2bn out of Labour in 2008 to vote for the 42 day detention period.

This. Was. Also. Bad.

Politics is so much easier than it's not treated like football GS.

[Henry]

It's also not really true, having been denied by all involved.

[GS]

Aye, so when you see have people like Shaun Woodward acting the cunt about confidence and supply, it might be worth noting he was quite happy to sign up to 42 day detention passing the Commons after they bought the DUP.

It's why nobody should be overly exercised by a deal. It happens all the time and every side does it.

[phonics]

Look if you're going to let me murder every Blairite/Brownite in the party I'll let you have a coalition deal. Otherwise, get in the gulag and get gay for bumming.

[Reg]

Can anyone explain to me why, morally speaking, what could be viewed (by anyone honest) as one party bribing another with a billion quid is legal?

[Lewis]

It's like a grown-up version of bribing the electorate.

[Magic]

It's not for Bugatti Veyrons it's for schools/councils in NI. Easier to sell that way.

[niko_cee]

I think that depends on what you understand by the term 'bribing'.

Nick Xenophon for the DUP.

[GS]

Can anyone explain to me why, morally speaking, what could be viewed (by anyone honest) as one party bribing another with a billion quid is legal?

Why on earth would it not be legal?

[Reg]

Lol alright mate.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's not a bribe, it's a (heavily one sided) compromise. Same thing as happens in any coalition or looser agreement in democracies worldwide.

[niko_cee]

Presumably you are aware that the government has a level of discretion in what it does with your (it's?) money? Sort of underpins the concept of a party political system.

[GS]

Lol alright mate.

No, talk us through it. Why would it be illegal?

[John]

Lol alright mate.

Why would it not be legal? Politics is, at its heart, all about apportioning funding to things, so why would one party saying 'we'll back you if we can have the funding we want' be illegal?

[Reg]

Because any agreement should be based on mutual feelings on how the country should be run, not a "compromise" (bribe).

If you can't buy votes you shouldn't be able to buy a government.

Cue GS calling me naive.

[Magic]

Because any agreement should be based on mutual feelings on how the country should be run, not a "compromise" (bribe).

If you can't buy votes you shouldn't be able to buy a government.

Cue GS calling me naive.

They kind of do but they'd be stupid not to use it as an opportunity for their own country. That's the problem with A UNION. The Lib Dems couldn't do the same because they are the same country as Tories.

Also we're due £2.9 billion now. Fuck the English.

[John]

You can buy votes, you just do it with commitments to fund the things that a particular group cares about.

I'll do that for him. You seem to be naive to a ridiculous degree on this.

[Reg]

Again avoiding the question of why morally it should be legal. And I'm not naive about the legality of it, I'm opposed to the morality of it being legal. And I could do without any forthcoming patronising/dickhead comments from you or GS.

[niko_cee]

In the grand scheme of things what is an extra £1bn over however many years?

Jeremy was probably going to bung them more for free tuition alone.

[Magic]

Again avoiding the question of why morally it should be legal. And I'm not naive about the legality of it, I'm opposed to the morality of it being legal. And I could do without any forthcoming patronising/dickhead comments from you or GS.

Stick to the football, naive nelly.

[GS]

Parliament can make anything legal or illegal if it chooses, so even if we passed a law to ban it (lol) then Theresa May could simply pass a law to unban it and then shove it through the Lords using the Parliament Acts.

[John]

Because, again, politics is essentially about apportioning funding to things. It's legal for them to offer a funding package in exchange for their votes on whatever issues come up going forward because it's legal for precisely the same thing to occur when a party makes promises to the public. 'Vote for us, students, we'll make your tuition free and triple the bursary' wouldn't be subject to questions of legality, when it could be viewed as bribery just as easily as the thing you're moaning about.

There's no question to answer regarding why 'morally it should be legal' because morality and legality are different. It's like saying 'why, legally speaking, should you be allowed to cheat at Monopoly?'

[Haystacks Horace]

Because, again, politics is essentially about apportioning funding to things. It's legal for them to offer a funding package in exchange for their votes on whatever issues come up going forward because it's legal for precisely the same thing to occur when a party makes promises to the public. 'Vote for us, students, we'll make your tuition free and triple the bursary' wouldn't be subject to questions of legality, when it could be viewed as bribery just as easily as the thing you're moaning about.

There's no question to answer regarding why 'morally it should be legal' because morality and legality are different. It's like saying 'why, legally speaking, should you be allowed to cheat at Monopoly?'

Really interesting opinion here actually John.

[Reg]

I'd equate it more to "Why is it legal for some bloke running for MP of Chichester to slip a £100 cheque through a voter's letterbox?" (If this were the case.)

And I'm asking why it should be legal. Not asking why it's realistic that it can be so. Not much point in this going further though (but thanks for posting in a friendly tone).

[Lewis]

I suppose it is relatively new insofar as it is a coalition with a party whose interest are very specific. With the Liberal Democrats the BRIBES were spread out everywhere, because they were a national party, rather than just getting spent on new flutes and orange paint.

[John]

I'd equate it more to "Why is it legal for some bloke running for MP of Chichester to slip a £100 cheque through a voter's letterbox?" (If this were the case.)

And I'm asking why it should be legal. Not asking why it's realistic that it can be so. Not much point in this going further though (but thanks for posting in a friendly tone).

That'd be a false equivocation. In your example money is going directly into the personal account of the person whose vote is being sought. That example would actually be far closer to the 'vote for us, students' line I've offered above. What's happening with the Tories and the DUP is essentially political capital being exchanged. The Tories get DUP support going forward, and in exchange the DUP very publicly get some funding for things which are likely to buy them votes when the next election rolls around.

[phonics]

If we made giving peoples money away in Government illegal, Tony Blair would be serving a life sentence. Something we can all agree with. I'm with Reg.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Tories 'gave away money' on the Lib Dems' silly AV referendum in 2010, among other things, I'm not sure how it's any different.

The German Greens throw their hat in with the socialists there every time (and it is every time thanks to PR), they must get loads of nice goodies in return.

[Disco]

Giving people's money away is the entire point of government.

[Reg]

It wasn't a direct comparison, I just meant why either should be legal. Basically, it just doesn't sit right with me that a government can be formed because of anything other than the moral views (disregarding any possible benefit) of the parties involved. I get that my position may be unrealistic / "aren't you in cuckoo land!".

And Jim, I'm not arguing sides. As phonics said earlier in the thread, it's not football.

[John]

If we made giving peoples money away in Government illegal, Tony Blair would be serving a life sentence. Something we can all agree with. I'm with Reg.

Being on the wrong side of something for spurious reasons is your default position at this point.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It wasn't a direct comparison, I just meant why either should be legal. Basically, it just doesn't sit right with me that a government can be formed because of anything other than the moral views (disregarding any possible benefit) of the parties involved. I get that my position may be unrealistic / "aren't you in cuckoo land!".

And Jim, I'm not arguing sides. As phonics said earlier in the thread, it's not football.

Precisely, any party will do it and if in six months' time we've had another election and Corbyn has got himself up to 300 odd seats and more than the Tories, he will be doing just the same sorts of deals in terms of chucking money at other parties for their support. You need a majority in parliament or you just can't do anything.

This is the current Danish parliament:

http://i.imgur.com/0jzz1aU.png

So it's 179 seats and the biggest party is 34, how do they get anything done. By 'bribing' each other until a larger group is formed.

[ItalAussie]

Just for the record, AV would make a majority in the UK more likely, rather than less.

PR is a different question altogether, of course. That's where you start to get more minority governments.

[Kikó]

Did this 1bn come from the magic money tree?

[Byron]

No it came from the fully costed Tory manifesto.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's the cost of having a strong and stable government in the national interest.

[Haystacks Horace]

Magic tree.

[GS]

To be fair, one billion to secure strong and stable government in the national interest is a much better deal for everyone than transferring £11bn from poor people to buy off the middle class and youth votes.

[Henry]

I was at a Pride march attacking Merkel (and Switzerlands policies) on this topic, literally yesterday. It's almost like people can hold multiple opinions at once. Incredible.

It appears that protests against her may have had some effect.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/27/angela-merkel-signals-u-turn-on-gay-marriage-in-germany?CMP=fb_gu

[phonics]

I'm going to say it because no-one else will, I'm clearly the leader of political progress in this world.

[GS]

In a measured intervention, the BMA have passed a motion which accuses the Tories of 'consciously' creating a 'crisis' in the NHS so they can use it as a pretext to privatise the entire thing.

Lol.

[Spammer]

Sounds about right to me.

[Henry]

Also known as the strategy of starve the beast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast) in a US context. Lewis has basically advocated it.

[GS]

:face:

[Lewis]

Increasing spending year after year doesn't seem like the ideal approach to it though.

[phonics]

Depends where you allocate the spending really.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Socialism, we want less
SELL THE FAILING NHS

I'll start a marching club with Toby Young.

[Henry]

Increasing spending year after year doesn't seem like the ideal approach to it though.

Possibly not, but I believe that the argument is that spending isn't actually increasing per head of population; and with that population getting older and treatments getting more high-tech and expensive, it can't keep up. Or maybe it's just being mismanaged. Or both.

[Lewis]

Probably both, but keeping up with mooching old people will finish it off.

[phonics]

Socialism, we want less
SELL THE FAILING NHS

I'll start a marching club with Toby Young.

He'd invite 14 people and only 3 would turn up.

[Disco]

Does anyone remember a year in their lifetime that the NHS wasn't on the brink of collapse?

[Raoul Duke]

Surprised there's not been more amusement on here at the SNP getting lolled out of town: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/27/nicola-sturgeon-shelves-second-independence-referendum

[Boydy]

There's no appetite for it because they want to be part of Papa Jez's glorious revolution now. :cool:

[Lewis]

The Union is on a roll.

[GS]

There's no amusement because, alas, Krankie is only proposing to slightly delay the process rather than bin it off. She'll still try and shove another one through before 2021, because the SNP are so terrible at governing they'll probably lose their pro-independence majority at Holyrood and her dream of getting her face plastered over a Scottish banknote will have passed.

Then again, if the SNP don't stand for independence then they might as well fold themselves into Labour and call it a day.

[Shindig]

They'll rebrand as SKIP and rebrand again because they can't find something for the K to stand for. Kilt. Okay, it's back on.

[Raoul Duke]

SIP still works.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDWyFhzW0AQmI4H.jpg:small

'Build the case'

What the juddering fuck have they been trying to do for the past year or so?

[Jimmy Floyd]

That paper will be shut within a year, which sadly will mean no more 'Scots' pull quotes to lol at for a while.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCbeL4_UIAA-Pj5.jpg

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

I'm convinced he's a troll.

[Boydy]

Does he write his entire column like that?

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

It would appear so-

http://www.thenational.scot/politics/15362525.Rab_Wilson__Mair_teachers_and_fewer_polit icians_is_whit_we_need/

I can decipher most of it but it takes some effort.

70p for that bollocks, that's a double decker in the works vending machine being thrown away.

[Boydy]

Yeah, I can read it too since I'm used to Ulster-Scots but it is a pain. It's fine talking like that but everyone learns to read normal English. It must be more effort for him to write too, surely.

[Haystacks Horace]

Is that Gaelic?

[Boydy]

No, it's Scots.

[Haystacks Horace]

Ah right I knew it was a different language as I couldn't make head nor toe of it. Can pick out the odd similar word though guessing it's git similar roots to English.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Trying to pronounce Gaelic words is hard enough, forget even trying to recognise anything remotely similar to English.

http://www.hp.europe.de/kd-europtravel/gaelic/proverb.htm

A trip to the North West Highlands can be an eye opener regarding road signs.

[Raoul Duke]

"Wee Ginger Dug" ???

[Kikó]

I understand my father in law less than 14% of the time.

[GS]

It only has circulation of about ten thousand, which is probably less than plenty of municipal or local newspapers elsewhere in the country.

I'm not sure why it gets the prominence it does, beyond laughing at the absolute state of their EXTREMIST stance.

[Byron]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40408576

More people now back a tax and spend ideology than austerity for the first time since the CREDIT CRUNCH.

[Henry]

Ulster-Socts is a made up language invented so that unionists in the north can claim the same funding as the Irish language does. It's childish.

[Magic]

So many 'we're fed up with the SNP' articles from actual voters. DER UNTERGANG.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There hasn't been any austerity, but whatever. Denis Healey (Old Labour's Denis Healey) cut by more than the 2010-17 Tory governments in a single year.

I think politicians/elites have made themselves so far removed now that people literally don't care what happens to the national finances.

[Henry]

There hasn't been any austerity

Of course there has. Just not as much as you'd like.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://politics4children.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/untitled.png

Not the best x axis, but regardless - no austerity.

[Henry]

Now go find the graph where it's adjusted for inflation. (i.e. in real terms.)

Not to mention that there can actually still be austerity in most areas as spending goes up in others such as unemployment benefits because of a recession.

[Haystacks Horace]

The government could try cutting budgets to keep austerity people happy but then put the money saved in high interest accounts which would help pay back national debt quicker.

[GS]

Ulster Scots is pointless, but Irish is spoken by only four thousand people a day outside the education system. It's a complete waste of time and effort to have every government document translated or to have court cases in Irish. This isn't the Gaeltacht - barely anyone speaks it.

I'm all for a cultural protection act, but it's a dead language and it's being leveraged for political gain to pretend that they're being discriminated against (or, as it's otherwise known, the Sinn Fein/IRA playbook). It's odds on the vast majority of those out having a moan a few months ago could barely string four coherent sentences together in it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Written 'Scots' is just English with crap spelling, as far as I can see. What they're speaking when they talk about 'Scots' is also a dialect of English, just like Scouse, or cockney.

[Henry]

Ulster Scots is pointless, but Irish is spoken by only four thousand people a day outside the education system.

It's over 70,000 outside the education system.
Your hostility to this can be taken for what it is - party of your fanatical bigotry against all elements of Irish nationalist culture.

[GS]

Unsurprisingly, you're wrong. The census shows 4,130 people speaking it as their main language. Or 0.24%.

I have no objection to a cultural protection act that allows people to learn it etc etc but there is simply no justification for pissing money up the wall in the manner being suggested.

Try and understand the distinction, lest you embarrass yourself again.

By the way, I think you'll find that I'm capable of drawing a distinction between Irish nationalism, which I don't object to, and Irish republicanism - which was vile. It's notable which one your "political hero" (LOL) Jez chose to support, isn't it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The irony is that without Jez supporting the IRA, the price of a DUP deal would have been far higher for PM Theresa.

Last night I dreamed that May resigned and Chris Eubank stepped in. Not sure where that one's going.

[GS]

The irony is that without Jez supporting the IRA, the price of a DUP deal would have been far higher for PM Theresa.

Last night I dreamed that May resigned and Chris Eubank stepped in. Not sure where that one's going.

True, she's quite lucky the Labour front bench holds such vile opinions on the matter.

That said, by the time that David Miliband's Labour had bought off the DUP, the SNP and the Lib Dems there would have been literally nothing left to keep their own electorate happy.

[Henry]

Unsurprisingly, you're wrong. The census shows 4,130 people speaking it as their main language. Or 0.24%.

If you're going to characterise it as a dead language, you need to count all speakers of it, not just those living in Northern Ireland.


I have no objection to a cultural protection act that allows people to learn it etc etc but there is simply no justification for pissing money up the wall in the manner being suggested.

Try and understand the distinction, lest you embarrass yourself again.

By the way, I think you'll find that I'm capable of drawing a distinction between Irish nationalism, which I don't object to, and Irish republicanism - which was vile. It's notable which one your "political hero" (LOL) Jez chose to support, isn't it.

You don't draw the distinction very well. Like when you reacted with glee to the economic crash in the south, or when you represent the GAA as some sort of IRA front group. Not to mention voting for the fucking DUP.

[GS]

The GAA have / had clubs, trophies, grounds, and competitions named after republican terrorists.

It's glorification of terrorism, unfortunately.

[Magic]

Why do people automatically assume throwing more money at something makes the problem go away?

The public services probably needs to be looked at on a per head basis, in which case spending has fallen dramatically.

Also they should look at proper processes and not being ripped off by pharmaceutical companies if they really wanted to be efficient. Also these cunt doctors that get paid LOADS for a bollocks shift.

[Spammer]

PRIVATISE the fire service!

[Lewis]

I think it's because idiots explain sums of money as x thousand nurses, rather than - as is actually the case - half that many, a load of diversity staff, money set aside for settling negligence cases, and two hundred quid light bulbs. I don't read much into these surveys. It's very easy for 48% of people to tell a poll they would happily pay more taxes, but I think the reality would be very different.

As for austerity, what (relatively minor) reductions in the size of the state have taken place have basically been cancelled out by pensions and debt interest. Compared to what used to pass as an austere financial climate we've been living the high life throughout.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Let's just slap 10p on income tax today and see how much public services actually improve for that money. If I get proactive policing (currently none), walk-in centres and GP surgeries staying open, more and better buses, better roads, improved care for the elderly, and better cancer care for that 10p, I'll pay it.

Just wouldn't happen.

[Magic]

Let's just slap 10p on income tax today and see how much public services actually improve for that money. If I get proactive policing (currently none), walk-in centres and GP surgeries staying open, more and better buses, better roads, improved care for the elderly, and better cancer care for that 10p, I'll pay it.

Just wouldn't happen.

Don't the Germans have pretty high taxes and never complain because all their shit is pretty fucking awesome?

Well at least until a million refugees brought it down.

[phonics]

Let's just slap 10p on income tax today and see how much public services actually improve for that money. If I get proactive policing (currently none), walk-in centres and GP surgeries staying open, more and better buses, better roads, improved care for the elderly, and better cancer care for that 10p, I'll pay it.

Cool. Voting Labour next time round then?

[Lewis]

The Germans don't have the NHS, so I can't see how that could be right.

[Magic]

The Germans don't have the NHS, so I can't see how that could be right.

Apparently their current healthcare offering is 77% funded by the government.

[Lewis]

That sounds privatised to me. Poor bastards.

[phonics]

Not sure what Mert thinks is great about the Swiss healthcare system. It's always been okay in a service sense once you're diagnosed but the whole GP side of things is massively corrupt. You have to see about 6 specialists (that just so happened to go to school together/are best mates) before anyone tells you what's wrong with you.

I also hate having to pay for it and then claim it back because I fucking despise basic admin.

[Magic]

Not sure what Mert thinks is great about the Swiss healthcare system.

Apart from it's the 2nd best in Europe.

[phonics]

I pay them 550 quid a month, I'd bloody well hope so.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Cool. Voting Labour next time round then?

No, because they aren't competent enough to deliver it, especially this latest incarnation, who will spend the money on magic beads, yoghurt and the Venezuelan embassy.

As such, I'll vote to keep my own money.

[GS]

Just Jez there, linking the fire to austerity again.

What a wanker.

[Lewis]

The basic rate was more back in the day and every conceivable 'service' was shit.

[Magic]

Perhaps, it seems to be two total and utter evils:

Shambolic black hole inefficient money pit

Fully exploited reduced service also a fucking shambles

We can't seem to mix and match the best of both worlds, it's either shit or shit.

[GS]

What really has pissed me off is Bouldy adopting 'the absolute boy'. Fucking cunt. Boydy

I only remembered the exchange because I thought it was a horrendous phrase that he'd made up, but it appears that not only is it an actual thing but generation snowflake are now pushing back on its gender specificity.

Idiots.

879664592292544512

[Boydy]

Ellie Mae O'Hagan is a dick.

[phonics]

That tweet, while not a perfect example of 'The Ratio Rule' (This is a Twitter rule where if a tweet has more replies than RTs+Favs, it's probably a bad take) it does have nearly triple the amount of replies she gets to her other tweets which indicates that even the people who follow her think it's a bad take.

Scanning at the replies, it's a mix of the two. Best reply is just some bloke spamming all the people who agree with her saying 'the absolute person'

[GS]

Writing for the Guardian must be the easiest job in the world.

[Lewis]

I reckon most of them work from templates.

[Boydy]

Has no one done a Guardian thinkpiece twitter bot?

[Raoul Duke]

Has no one done a Guardian thinkpiece twitter bot?

George Monbot

[phonics]

Has no one done a Guardian thinkpiece twitter bot?

There was one that does Comment Is Free headlines but I think it just feeds in dril tweets.

[phonics]

880311685822730240

lolllllllllllll