UK General Election 2017 - 8 June

[Pepe]

The private sector wouldn't allow for such nonsense. :dc:

[Giggles]

Is there not some way that you can pass these money-saving tips to the relevant people? It seems like an easy thing to resolve.

Someone will be on the make from that whole setup, so it would never be resolved.

[Boydy]

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[Ben]

You would have thought at least one of the cunts might have consulted an economist.

[Boydy]

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Rishi must be feeling pretty fucking vindicated right now.

[Yevrah]

I'm sure Lewis will be along to explain why it's still a cracking idea for x, y and z reasons, but I genuinely can't recall a government doing something so universally derided, that they couldn't even explain the reasons behind properly, and I'm including Iraq in that.

[Lewis]

The evil IMF criticising something is usually a good sign, so let's wait and see.

[7om]

You know the Chancellor, they don’t make policy up off the top of their head, do they? It’s not Kamakwasi sitting in his office picking tax numbers out of thin air, is it? He must be surrounded by financially-minded people who tell him what the deal is so have they all got this horribly wrong? Or is this more hysterics for HEADLINES?

[Ian]

Could you not make the argument that most ministers for the last however many years should, in theory, have advisors around them and yet have still managed to be comically* inept?

* Not really the right when you have the misfortune to live in the cesspit they're in the process of trying to set fire to but you get my point.

[Ben]

You know the Chancellor, they don’t make policy up off the top of their head, do they? It’s not Kamakwasi sitting in his office picking tax numbers out of thin air, is it? He must be surrounded by financially-minded people who tell him what the deal is so have they all got this horribly wrong? Or is this more hysterics for HEADLINES?

Anything half reasonable wouldn’t be getting crucified by everyone with a relevant qualification beyond A-level. The fact the Daily Mail are wanking themselves silly over it and everyone else is dumbfounded tells you all you need to know on this one.

[Lofty]

The private sector wouldn't allow for such nonsense. :dc:

They definitely do. We used to have an overtime shift that consistently made far more in revenue than the cost of the wages needed to staff an extra fare collector on a busy commuter train that would never be effectively checked by one person. It was withdrawn despite acknowledgement of these facts because the revenue pot and the overtime pot were seperate departments.

The weirdest thing with Kwarteng is usually they throw a sweetner in for the dossers aka the voters but this time virtually nothing. It's widely accepted thst economic stimulus happens more effectively when you give money to people who need to spend it rather than people who can afford to save it.

[Boydy]

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[Ben]

The weirdest thing with Kwarteng is usually they throw a sweetner in for the dossers aka the voters but this time virtually nothing. It's widely accepted thst economic stimulus happens more effectively when you give money to people who need to spend it rather than people who can afford to save it.

To me, the only reasoning behind this is that they know they've got no chance of being re-elected so are just brazenly transferring as much wealth to their mates as possible before then. It's been a long time since the public were so overwhelmingly anti-Tory, especially considering a lot of these people were bending over backwards to justify them only 12 months ago.

[Spikey M]

That's if everyone but the Tory voters hasn't starved to death by the next election.

[niko_cee]

I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of this massive TRANSFER OF WEALTH, but is 1 year paying 5p less in income tax really the biggest financial landgrab in modern political history? Most of 'their mates' won't be paying anywhere near the top rate of income tax on the majority of their earnings anyway, they'll be squirreled away in offshore tax havens and the like so it seems a strange narrative that this would be the motivation. As does the scorched earth policy being rolled out by the labour leaning commenteriat, although I suppose that playbook has perhaps been used before no names mentioned ahem.

Oh look Crispin Odey's making out like a bandit. What a fucking surprise.

The only people I can really think of that this might have a significant impact on are the likes of the Coates mob who pride themselves on paying enormous amounts of tax and are very much not Truss and Co's mates.

[Ben]

Pretty much every opinion piece that has come out since Friday has stated the top 1% will benefit the most, with the poorest benefitting the least.

[Kikó]

Woke lefty economists trying to bring down the government as usual.

[Spikey M]

I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of this massive TRANSFER OF WEALTH, but is 1 year paying 5p less in income tax really the biggest financial landgrab in modern political history? Most of 'their mates' won't be paying anywhere near the top rate of income tax on the majority of their earnings anyway, they'll be squirreled away in offshore tax havens and the like so it seems a strange narrative that this would be the motivation. As does the scorched earth policy being rolled out by the labour leaning commenteriat, although I suppose that playbook has perhaps been used before no names mentioned ahem.

Oh look Crispin Odey's making out like a bandit. What a fucking surprise.

The only people I can really think of that this might have a significant impact on are the likes of the Coates mob who pride themselves on paying enormous amounts of tax and are very much not Truss and Co's mates.

Niko, lad, can we wait for the Bay Capital Barmy Army to actually make us billionaires before we become Tory shills.

[Kikó]

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Absolutely lost the fucking plot.

[niko_cee]

Niko, lad, can we wait for the Bay Capital Barmy Army to actually make us billionaires before we become Tory shills.

Mate, I'm already a fully paid up tax haven inhabitant. Paid up being a poor term perhaps.

Although, actually, for people earning non-stupid money our tax system is less generous than the UK one. :moop:

My point was not disputing WHO STANDS TO GAIN most, just that, to those people, this gain is pretty trifling and probably won't be around for long anyway. It's not like the incumbent government can set tax policy in perpetuity. At the current rate they might not even survive long enough to bring this new system in.

Doesn't that national insurance thing massively favour freelance media types [and the like]? Hence all the brouhaha in the first place about it.

[Spikey M]

It probably is an extremely modest gain for our millionaire overlords, but "it's the principle" and it shows just how (at best) clueless or (at worst) crooked this lot are.

Trickle Down economics doesn't work. It never has. The extra money will be hoarded. Meanwhile, the inflation caused by the tax cuts will make essentials even more expensive for the plebs.

It may be a drop in the ocean for the rich, but it's just plain economic idiocy.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hopefully it will at least put mongs like Peter Bone to bed forever.

Bill Cash is still an MP. Jesus wept.

[niko_cee]

It probably is an extremely modest gain for our millionaire overlords, but "it's the principle" and it shows just how (at best) clueless or (at worst) crooked this lot are.

Trickle Down economics doesn't work. It never has. The extra money will be hoarded. Meanwhile, the inflation caused by the tax cuts will make essentials even more expensive for the plebs.

It may be a drop in the ocean for the rich, but it's just plain economic idiocy.


https://youtu.be/X8xU-gKK17A

[Lofty]

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[Yevrah]

This is all getting a bit Blair. :drool:

[Yevrah]

And I know Jim flagged this yesterday, but no nonsense Keir has lept into action and she's been suspended.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63050482

A scary insight into how the left might think, that.

[Ben]

"The left"

Huq supported Cooper over Corbyn and backed Starmer. Not very leftish if you ask me.

[Yevrah]

Fair enough.

[niko_cee]

It probably is an extremely modest gain for our millionaire overlords, but "it's the principle" and it shows just how (at best) clueless or (at worst) crooked this lot are.

Trickle Down economics doesn't work. It never has. The extra money will be hoarded. Meanwhile, the inflation caused by the tax cuts will make essentials even more expensive for the plebs.

It may be a drop in the ocean for the rich, but it's just plain economic idiocy.

I think the most likely explanation is that this is what happens when you put 'really clever' people in charge of things. Big brain thinking is all well and good, but often doesn't survive first contact with reality. Kwarteng obviously rates himself as some sort of economics savant [going off what you hear about him from 'friends' etc] and is just trying to show off how much cleverer he is than everyone else by doing something that he sees as fairly revolutionary. The markets/business/everyone else just like the certainty that more conventional thinking brings and so [perhaps rightly] think he's off his rocker.

[Lofty]

Huq is regarded as a mentalist apparently. Like, makes Abbot look sensible mental.

The main problem with galaxy brain Kwarteng's plan is the people getting the extra money are going to be stashing it offshore for the rainy day his plan is causing. Not conducive to the growth they want.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There is a quite mainstream strain of 'black' thinking that holds that anyone with black skin should by necessity be a Marxist. Same with the gays, to some extent. Think I had it from phonics on here once.

I say 'quite mainstream', I'm thinking in Europe with that, Fanon etc. In American universities it's probably the dominant thinking by now.

[Ben]

Thomas Sankara :cool:

[Boydy]

And I know Jim flagged this yesterday, but no nonsense Keir has lept into action and she's been suspended.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63050482

A scary insight into how the left might think, that.
Bridget Phillipson couldn't even say that it was racist when questioned about it yesterday, would only say "it was wrong" like a robot.

[Lewis]

David Lammy didn't want any of it either, so they either all agree with her, or we have proof that they only usually fixate on racism for cynical motives.

[Don]

That Bridget bit on Newsnight was fucking infuriating and a clear demonstration of all that is wrong with politics. I suppose it helps to not feed the Tories a "even their own label themselves as racists" but fucking hell, just label the dirty Pakistani a racist and be done with it.

I'm automatically driven to seethe at anyone responsible for tax cuts for the wealthy so it's good to see them being shat on but it does all feel like it's snowballed out of control now in the news.

As has been pointed out, Labour are basically going along with all bar the 45% rate abolishment which in itself is worth fuck all. Ultimately, these market conditions aren't
really about the twat's budget.

And then we have everyone wanking over GBP/USD when it seems for some strange reason that USD seems to be protected from these market conditions and other currencies are also tumbling against it. Let me see GBP/EUR and see if the headlines are as juicy.

[Lewis]

Wind it in coconut.

[Lofty]

Isn't the USD protected because it is the defacto trading currency globally and the yanks are more immune to the problems we have because they have all their own resources due to essentially being an entire continent.

[phonics]

That Lilico stuff that the entire economy crumbling over the last few days is in fact Labours fault did get a chuckle out of me.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Tory libertarian right getting found out once and for all is what the party needs, tbh (Cummings warned you all). Hopefully a better version can re-emerge in 2030 actually wanting to conserve some things.

And a lot of the currency stuff is about USD being mighty. We're struggling to sell our massive business into Egypt at the moment because their government are spooked about the idea of USD leaving the country, so aren't issuing letters of credit to banks.

[Boydy]

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Christ.

[Spikey M]

:lol:

Outstanding stuff. What a fucking shitshow this is. And by "this" I mean "everything".

[Lewis]

What on earth have these pension funds invested in that this would cause them to collapse? Time will tell who is being more right/less wrong about all of this, but the Bank of England should he re-nationalised by whoever wins the election. It's ridiculous having some call and response bollocks playing out like this.

[Boydy]

I'm not entirely sure but from what I've gathered, it's their hedging positions that are designed to reduce their risk that would have fucked them.

I'm not entirely sure how that all works though.

[Kikó]

Yeah, the bank of England should stop trying to stabilise the pound because of ideology.

[7om]

Where’s Mark Carney these days?

[Lewis]

For better or worse, the elected government should have control of monetary policy. I'm not objecting to what they are doing, but how they (including the government) are doing it. This should all be joined together.

[randomlegend]

I don't think government control should extend to driving the money bus off the fiscal cliff with the windows down and the system up.

[Spikey M]

I wouldn't trust this shower of cunts with a permanent marker, never mind the password to the money printer.

[Magic]

That clown 'rich dad poor dad' is seriously recommending investing in food (tinned food) because you can eat it. Fucking hell.

[Yevrah]

What on earth have these pension funds invested in that this would cause them to collapse? Time will tell who is being more right/less wrong about all of this, but the Bank of England should he re-nationalised by whoever wins the election. It's ridiculous having some call and response bollocks playing out like this.

I'm inclined to agree with that last bit, in that how on earth did no-one behind these government policies realise that the BoE would disagree and if they did, why the hell didn't the mitigate the impact of that?

It's amateur hour and we need Starmer in now. These people are dangerous through their incompetence.

[Kikó]

For better or worse, the elected government should have control of monetary policy. I'm not objecting to what they are doing, but how they (including the government) are doing it. This should all be joined together.

Maybe we should have a bankexit and get controls on our money borders.

[Lofty]

Lewis's proposal works in a world where the government is full of competent people but I'd imagine the current state of affairs makes The Thick of It look understated.

[Lewis]

The government controlled it for fifty years until 1998 (it had never previously needed to directly, but did when it wanted to), since which time it has consistently missed its inflation targets and at best ignored, and at worst exacerbated, several disastrous asset bubbles. Forget the borrowing and money printing. Its fate should be wholly bound up with the government of the day, otherwise it just does nothing until it shits itself.

[Lofty]

Having policy making institutions immune to government interference is helpful though, for instance the country's rail policies were a lot more coherent under the SRA rather than just being handed off to Grant Fucking Shapps to fanny around with Chris Grayling's sloppy fifths.

[Pepe]

Government is full of incompetents, but so are 'policy-making institutions' of all kinds. CDC? lol WHO? lol IMF? lol EU? lol

[Kikó]

https://bondvigilantes.com/blog/2022/09/collateral-calls/

An explainer on what went on.

[Don]

Cheers.

[Lofty]

Government is full of incompetents, but so are 'policy-making institutions' of all kinds. CDC? lol WHO? lol IMF? lol EU? lol

True but at least they can continue with a policy between government changes rather than chopping and changing constantly. Remember when Trump wanted the fed to do what he wanted, good job they lolled at him.

[Lewis]

If central banking can be spun out to 'independent' bodies then why can't everything else?

[Lofty]

Surely bringing the BOE in house would go against Kwarteng and Truss's small state ideology.

[Lofty]

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[Ben]

It's becoming quite clear that anyone in and around Government was forewarned of the consequences of any policy akin to what's been announced, so I'm definitely starting to lean more towards crooked than incompetent.

[Luke Emia]

No she really is just that thick. 100% one of those people that thinks if you wish it to happen it will happen.

[Magic]

Believe and you will receive.

[Spikey M]

Are the Bank of England only rushing to hike the interest rate so that they can cut it again in 2 months when we officially enter recession?

Not that it justifies the shambles that this government is, but the BoE have had an absolute nightmare here too.

In my (uneducated) opinion. I would let my mortgage go onto variable rate rather than fixing now. Recession is nailed on and that means interest rate cuts.

[Ben]

Normally yes, but inflation is way too high to do that. Maybe they will anyway because they've got no other weapons in their arsenal. I went to see my advisor yesterday and he's saying they don't expect shit to sort itself out until 2024, so next year may well be a time of both high inflation and high interest rates.

[Luke Emia]

Normally yes, but inflation is way too high to do that. Maybe they will anyway because they've got no other weapons in their arsenal. I went to see my advisor yesterday and he's saying they don't expect shit to sort itself out until 2024, so next year may well be a time of both high inflation and high interest rates.

My gut is rates to peak faster and higher than expected base rate maybe at 5% by the spring. Then we have 5/6 months where they stay high as they try to combat the inflation, the realisation of the impact of that on the economy will then make them re-think and have to start reducing the rates again to get the economy moving. This is the problem with them having sat on their hands doing nothing with the rates for the past 5 or 6 years. Now the shock to people's budgets is far worse than it needed to be, what people don't see here is that they are getting the money for the power but that is going straight out in the other hand in the next few months for anyone who has a fixed rate mortgage that is ending in the next six months.

[Luke Emia]

As for inflation the shock of the petrol rises from last February and energy increases as well will start to ease out of the rolling average at the start of next which will have an impact on inflation you would hope. It's not going to be great because things are generally increasing in price but I don't think it's going to be as bad as it would have been and then if rates are higher and also have some impact will mean they can act sooner to get the economy moving again.

[Boydy]

Stagflation, baby!

It's almost like the inflation we were seeing wasn't being caused by people having too much money to spend and raising interest rates wasn't going to bring it down.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Was it the Bank of England guv who called for people not to ask for pay rises earlier in the year? lol

[Ben]

Yeah fuck him, I asked. Luke is right, BoE should have been doing this starting in about 2014.

[Boydy]

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Lol.

[Ben]

:lol:

I retract my previous statement. It's definitely incompetence over crookedness.

[7om]

But how can someone apparently this thick reach the highest office in the country? I can’t believe you can be thick and do it. Some of the people in my secondary school classes were thick. Like the lad who jumped out of a 40 foot tree for a laugh and snapped his legs. That’s thick. This fucker is Oxbridge educated, isn’t she? So what the fuck is going on?

[Boydy]

She's just going around all the local radio stations getting absolutely battered by the hosts. :lol:

Probably thought local radio was going to be an easier ride than Radio 4 but at this rate she'd have been better off with just one bad Radio 4 interview instead of several local BBC ones.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's not base thickness. She was a chartered accountant, worked for Shell, etc - they don't hire you if you're naturally thick. Even at a younger age:


Truss was remembered by adolescent classmates as a studious girl with "geeky" friends. She reportedly had an interest in social issues such as homelessness.

However, she has obviously acquired some of the traits of a thick person over time. She has gone from Lib Dem to Cameroon to hard line libertarian during her political life. That indicates a willingness to blow with the wind and that her objectives are driven by ego, and the desire for power or status, rather than by conviction. If you spend that amount of time approaching things with a cynical will to get ahead, rather than with any kind of intellectual rigour, do you lose your grasp on the brain power that got you into this world in the first place? I don't know.

[Boydy]

Lancashire:
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Leeds:
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[Spikey M]

But how can someone apparently this thick reach the highest office in the country? I can’t believe you can be thick and do it. Some of the people in my secondary school classes were thick. Like the lad who jumped out of a 40 foot tree for a laugh and snapped his legs. That’s thick. This fucker is Oxbridge educated, isn’t she? So what the fuck is going on?

She can't be thick, but she can be grossly unprepared. She has reached PM because she had more mates than Rishi and the others. It's a popularity contest. She was willing to scratch more backs, or atleast make people believe she would.

[Yevrah]

Getting routed by local radio hosts. :cab: It's hard to find the appropriate words for all of this.

[Spikey M]

Gross incompetence. You can add a few swear words to spice it up a bit, but that's about the size of it.

[Ben]

They used to be able to get out of it through gift of the gab. None of these chancers seem to have either the natural charisma for it or the willingness to be coached in it. This new method since Boris of peddling the same couple of lines whatever the question is getting them unstuck because if they accidentally take a second to think about the question, they're fucked.

[Manc]

She's incompetent and has failed upwards her entire career. It happens in all industries & sectors. The top job is no different.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There's something gloriously democratic about the local radio breakfast hosts annihilating her one after the other, for 5 minutes at a time. She'll have thought she was being clever for dodging Today as well.

I said she wasn't making Christmas but I'm now unsure about Bonfire Night.

[Yevrah]

There's something gloriously democratic about the local radio breakfast hosts annihilating her one after the other, for 5 minutes at a time. She'll have thought she was being clever for dodging Today as well.

I said she wasn't making Christmas but I'm now unsure about Bonfire Night.

Yep, it's fantastic that her shit dodging has backfired this spectacularly. She now looks incompetent and cowardly. Top work.

And completely agree, she is dead Woman walking already.

[John Arne]

Pretty sure this guy just said...

"I don't care about equality at all. I have no interest in equality."

And

"Equality is not a morally sound issue".

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Each to their own.

[Yevrah]

I'll watch the video, but equality is a bit of a myth, it has never and will never exist. The best you can hope for is something that at least looks close to fair, which after this budget we're miles away from.

[Boydy]

Getting routed by local radio hosts. :cab: It's hard to find the appropriate words for all of this.

I think you're making the same mistake that Truss probably did.

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[Spikey M]

Communism is the best shot we ever had at equality and, well, lol.

[Boydy]

Andrew Lilico is the same guy who was calling the IMF lefty after its statement the other day. A completely unserious person.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There's an epoch-defining Paul Mason tweet out there re the local radio hosts, for anyone who likes laughing at snobbery.

EDIT: quoted in Boydy's post.

[Boydy]

There's an epoch-defining Paul Mason tweet out there re the local radio hosts, for anyone who likes laughing at snobbery.
It's in the initial quote tweet of that one I posted, if you expand it.


Another completely unserious person. An absolute clown.

[Yevrah]

I think you're making the same mistake that Truss probably did.

Great point and one I obviously hadn't considered. That's as bigger bollock dropped as seemingly not being aware as to how the BoE would react to the mini budget.

[Ben]

True equality will never be achieved but at least wanting to strive for some sort of equality is just human decency, is it not? That's my viewpoint anyway and probably the main reason I can't get past my own hatred for right-wing economics.

[Spikey M]

True equality will never be achieved but at least wanting to strive for some sort of equality is just human decency, is it not? That's my viewpoint anyway and probably the main reason I can't get past my own hatred for right-wing economics.

The problem is - as with communism - the equality you end up with is separate from the rich cunts, and the plebs get increasingly equal as the middle classes slow dissappear.

[Ben]

I'm not advocating for communism. I'm advocating for things like raising the personal allowance rather than cutting the top tax rate.

[Jimmy Floyd]

'Human decency' might be a stretch as most societies were riven with slave ownership until the last 100-200 years, and some still are. In a democratic system with universal suffrage it makes sense as a starting point, I suppose.

[Lewis]

Lancashire:
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I'm not sure what's wrong with this. She's a bit awkward, which we knew, but if the policies for 'local consent' are still being written what is she meant to say? It's very easy for the local MP and council to be against something that wasn't realistically happening. If an energy company waves a fat cheque in front of the locals things might change.

[Boydy]

Getting bodied on BBC Bristol as well.

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[Boydy]

1575429221836640256

Who'd have thought destroying people's disposable incomes might have knock-on effects in the rest of the economy?

They've taken a shitstorm and turned it into a fucking shit hurricane.

[Waffdon]

I'm not sure what's wrong with this. She's a bit awkward, which we knew, but if the policies for 'local consent' are still being written what is she meant to say? It's very easy for the local MP and council to be against something that wasn't realistically happening. If an energy company waves a fat cheque in front of the locals things might change.

Of course. :D

[-james-]

Why is Truss going on local radio morning shows? Who thought that was a good idea?

[Ben]

The same people who thought the mini-Budget was a good idea, presumably.

[Lofty]

I'm not sure what's wrong with this. She's a bit awkward, which we knew, but if the policies for 'local consent' are still being written what is she meant to say? It's very easy for the local MP and council to be against something that wasn't realistically happening. If an energy company waves a fat cheque in front of the locals things might change.

Fracking was already geared up at the Preston New Road site and then stopped as per government instruction, having previously overridden Lancashire CC opposition. If Liz wanted to they could probably start fracking there again by tea time. Not quite something that 'isn't realistically happening'. It's not the densest area of housing but I'm sure everyone in their nice semi rural houses will be thrilled to get a cheque making up for their cratered house price and flammable, undrinkable tap water.

The local radio thing is apparently an annual tradition prior to the party conference.

[Dave.]

People don't vote tory because policies, they vote because they want to feel part of the club.

I think I made the classic mistake of thinking everyone votes in the same way I do - by looking at the policies and seeing ones I prefer.

[Dark Soldier]

Kwarteng strikes me as a dude who screams "fiscal responsibility" as he climaxes. Safe hands, sturdy.

[Ben]

I've just done a YouGov survey (I know, I'm a boring cunt) and 71% of respondents say they would trust Labour more than the Conservatives with the economy (11% Tory, rest dunno/neither/other). I know it's just a survey and blah blah blah, but I did find it interesting because that particular question has never had a good pro-Labour response in all the years I've contributed, up until today.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That and do you trust the leader are normally the two that predict election results, so I'd say my blue boys are pan tostado.

[Ben]

When the Sun and Express have turned, you know it's bad. But they'll no doubt be back on board when the GE is called so whatever.

[Lewis]

Fracking was already geared up at the Preston New Road site and then stopped as per government instruction, having previously overridden Lancashire CC opposition. If Liz wanted to they could probably start fracking there again by tea time. Not quite something that 'isn't realistically happening'. It's not the densest area of housing but I'm sure everyone in their nice semi rural houses will be thrilled to get a cheque making up for their cratered house price and flammable, undrinkable tap water.

The local radio thing is apparently an annual tradition prior to the party conference.

It barely got going having been built under a cloud, but in that case fuck them. It's a strategic national resource. We can't have wealthy pensioners and teachers scuppering it.

[Lofty]

Yes poisoning the water supply for a questionable gas return (not my words Lynn, the words of Cuadrilla CEO) sounds like a good idea. Especially after the extreme weather events seen this summer where the shit hole south wept about it's water supply. Will we all get a tax rebate on bottled drinking water? Probably offset any profit from fracking in the first place.

Let's be honest if there wasn't brown envelopes to trouser they wouldn't even entertain fracking.

[phonics]

Earthquakes in Preston :drool:

[Luke Emia]

What is the end game here though? Do they get rid of her? Or does the pressure get so much that she has to call a general election that she is going to get walloped in anyway? As I have said all along I knew she was incompetent but even I didn't think she would be this useless this quickly.

In terms of the tax cut personally I think I get the logic. You cut the higher rate tax band and coupled with the corporation tax you hope that you get an influx of employers moving here from elsewhere paying high salaries. The increase in the tax revenue then covers what you have lost initially and you also get the growth that you have been looking for. It's not the straightforward giving millionaires an extra £40,000 that is painted in the press. What you don't do though is announce it completely un-costed whilst shelling out a whole load of money elsewhere this could have been announced in a proper budget and although The Guardian doesn't like it I don't think it would have received the backlash it has received from elsewhere.

Now though she's toast already due to the way she has handled the last week.

[Luke Emia]

Oh and the highlight of the interviews was when Radio Norfolk asked if King's Lynn(which is the closest hospital to a fair part of her constituency) would get a new hospital and she replied that she hoped so. Fucking hell. The presenter actually had to point out that it was within her gift as prime minister to ensure that this would happen.

[Don]

On his visit to Darlington Kwasi Kwarteng heightened speculation that benefits won’t be uprated in line with inflation. Asked if he would honour the commitment of the previous government, he said:

"We are talking about helping people in the round. It is premature for me to come to a decision on that. But we are absolutely focused on making sure that the most vulnerable in our society are protected through what could be a challenging time."

The next question was about whether Kwarteng was committed to maintaining the triple lock, which ensures that the state pension rises in line with earnings, or inflation, or 2.5%, whichever is higher, and this time his answer was very different. He said:

"The prime minister has been absolutely committed to the triple lock and we are absolutely committed to maintaining it."

:harold:

[Jimmy Floyd]

They will have to get rid of her and then call an immediate GE with a new leader (the membership has also lost its credibility/legitimacy in these matters having chosen her).

If they try and limp on they will end up with about 30 seats. If they do the above they could salvage 200-240.

[Lewis]

We have two years until an election has to be held. If they think that this is a 'Growth Plan', why would they not want to wait as long as possible for that growth? People really need to calm down and get a bit of perspective.

[Luke Emia]

We have two years until an election has to be held. If they think that this is a 'Growth Plan', why would they not want to wait as long as possible for that growth? People really need to calm down and get a bit of perspective.

Yes there are two years until there has to be an election but she is mortally wounded at this point already. She has been elected by a tiny proportion of the country and then has managed to completely fuck it within three weeks. She is the first leader I have seen who hasn't had a popularity boost in the polls after coming in mid-term. But, not only has she not had a boost she's also managed to go spectacularly backwards.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You can't start a growth plan by tanking the economy. It's all over I'm afraid, much like it was all over for BJ once he was shown to have lied about cheese and wine.

Even if this somehow actually was a genius plan, she doesn't have the communication skills to sell that.

[Spikey M]

Au Contraire, the only way is up when you're bankrupt.

[Boydy]

1575522489572229129

Lol

[Lewis]

If it fails then it fails, and they will lose (but they still won't chuck her beforehand). If it works then the economy will be growing, and, more importantly, she will be able to go into the next election as the person who 'took tough decisions' etc. etc., which could be quite a useful gimmick given her personal awkwardness. Who knows, but we have two years to find out.

[Raoul Duke]

Nobody gives a fuck about "the economy". It is an entirely abstract concept for most people in their day-to-day

[Lewis]

So what has all the drama this week been about?

[Giggles]

Because the only purpose of news these days is to fuck peoples heads up.

[Spikey M]

Of course people care about the economy. :cab:

They may not say that's what they care about, but when they care about wages, inflation, mortgages etc. What are they caring about if not the economy?

[Don]

If this is the standard, there'll be protests long before she resigns and a Boris may have been able to withstand it but not this fucking virgin.

[Shindig]

If this is the standard, there'll be protests long before she resigns and a Boris may have been able to withstand it but not this fucking virgin.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/celebrities/prime-minister-liz-truss-bsdm-o-ring-necklace/

Honestly, it makes more sense than her being smart enough to climb the ranks.

[Yevrah]

Who knows, but we have two years to find out.

We really don’t, or rather she really doesn’t.

[7om]

There’s no chance we’re getting an election. They’ll just repeat the old “we got a five year mandate in 2019” line and tell everyone to fuck off. Truss may be dead (I have a feeling she will go the distance to 2024) but the Conservatives aren’t going anywhere til May 2024 at the earliest, I reckon.

[Lofty]

Certainly looks like the knives are out: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/

[Jimmy Floyd]

There’s no chance we’re getting an election. They’ll just repeat the old “we got a five year mandate in 2019” line and tell everyone to fuck off. Truss may be dead (I have a feeling she will go the distance to 2024) but the Conservatives aren’t going anywhere til May 2024 at the earliest, I reckon.

Absolutely no chance that their members will be allowed to choose another PM. This is a crisis of credibility for the entire party and the outlook of a vast number of its MPs (unfortunately, since I dislike Labour).

The best they can do is force through some sort of procedural change so that members don't get a say and they can install Sunak or someone who isn't keen to burn the country immediately. One must remember that Truss was 3rd or 4th on the initial MPs' ballot.

[Manc]

Tory rep on QT is drowning.

[Don]

He's gonna chin Richard Bacon and rightly so, why the fuck is he on there trying to co-present it?

[Manc]

He's done enough cocaine to warrant a seat on the panel.

[Don]

1575171985738330117

[7om]

That definitely happened.

[Yevrah]

This Goblin on QT is something else. What a time to be alive.

[Yevrah]

And on Corbyn, what we definitely don't need is that shower of shit getting any kudos from this situation. At this point it's Starmer or bust.

[Lewis]

That definitely happened.

Speaking Spanish yeah right Cuban more like the communist.

[Ben]

Jez. :cool:

[Spikey M]

1575171985738330117

:D

[Lofty]

Isn't Corbyn's wife Spanish? It's plausible at least.

The main problem with the electorate is the majority are thick. Prior to the mini budget carnage I saw someone saying they were happy with the Stamp Duty announcement as their son was trying to buy his first house. This is the economic illiteracy that votes mong.

[Lofty]

Just watching QT now, lol at the fucking grandad saying 'I'm not convinced by this labour lot' like Truss and Kwarteng aren't about to shred his triple locked pension. Will be eating out of a bin by Christmas blaming Starmer.

[Jimmy Floyd]

No one reads anything anymore (beyond 'They're saying...' based on the first two headlines of BBC news phone app) and everyone spends their free time watching Netflix, which is akin to connecting your brain to a Slush Puppy machine and just pumping the blue stuff in there for four hours per evening.

I always think of those people in Wall-E going around the bubble spaceship in fat chairs.

[Boydy]

1575776619897053184

1575820495089504258

:uhoh:

[Ben]

I'd be surprised if they went down the tubes to be honest. But then Lehman was surprising.

[Boydy]

Pensions not okay yet either?

1575837761763942405

[Jimmy Floyd]

I am slow with economic stuff in general, but why would pension funds be hit by the specific measures taken in the UK this week?

[Boydy]

I am slow with economic stuff in general, but why would pension funds be hit by the specific measures taken in the UK this week?

Decent explanation here:
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-09-28/why-the-mini-budget-threatened-to-bankrupt-pension-funds

[Kikó]

You'd imagine Credit Suisse looks like an interesting buy for one of the European banks.

[Giggles]

I am slow with economic stuff in general, but why would pension funds be hit by the specific measures taken in the UK this week?

Horror and panic sell.

[Lewis]

Three cheers for Big Liz Truss giving the badly run and over-exposed pension funds a warning shot.

[Spikey M]

From what I understand the problem was with the Government Bonds they are legally required to own to add stability.

Not sure how anything that can half in value in 6 hours is in anyway "stable", but here we are.

[Boydy]

That definitely happened.
1575547127509684224

[Don]

The man does not have the ego to manufacture lies and deceit. We came so close.

[Ben]

The man does not have the ego to manufacture lies and deceit. We came so close.

You sure about that m8?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/02/tie-mark-ambition-jeremy-corbyn-alarmed-wearing-one-showed-craved/

The media slander campaign on him was laughable at times.

[Spikey M]

:D fucking hell

[Shindig]

Workers of the World, unite! You have nothing to lose but your ties! That's how that quote goes, right?

[Waffdon]

1576490556100055040

[Yevrah]

1576307031979409408

No idea how true the second part of that tweet is, but Charles should give serious consideration about using his powers to dissolve parliament. Legacy cemented, follow that Wills.

[Shindig]

If he was that bothered, he'd be turning up at COP27.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why would she ban the King from speaking about climate change? What possible benefit is there.

[Offshore Toon]

Yeah, he's been doing a much better job than Giggles has for Ireland.

[Spikey M]

Why would she ban the King from speaking about climate change? What possible benefit is there.

They're meant to have no (public) opinion on anything, aren't they? Plus, considering she's apparently intent on fracking the entirety of the Midlands (after fucking the rest of the country), the King piping up would probably a bit awkward.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think position that worked better for Liz as she became Queen at 25 and in the 1950s, whereas Chazza has been talking about climate change for about 40 years so it's pointless pretending he's suddenly had a change of heart and now couldn't give a shit because his mum's died.

Doesn't mean he has to do Telegraph columns about tax policy.

[Spikey M]

The Constitution (unwritten as it may be) says he has to as far as I'm aware.

It's outdated and stupid, but, well, that's their whole deal. Isn't it? Tradition and pomp. Being above petty human concerns is the role.

[Giggles]

Is KC3 a climate nut too?

[Shindig]

He's a big plant talker.

[Yevrah]

They're meant to have no (public) opinion on anything, aren't they? Plus, considering she's apparently intent on fracking the entirety of the Midlands (after fucking the rest of the country), the King piping up would probably a bit awkward.

What I don't get is that if you're going to do something on the energy front that's universally disliked, why in the fuck wouldn't you go nuclear?

[Spikey M]

What I don't get is that if you're going to do something on the energy front that's universally disliked, why in the fuck wouldn't you go nuclear?

We're back to wondering whether she's thick or corrupt. The jury will be talking for some time I imagine.

[Yevrah]

Is KC3 a climate nut too?

I think with him it started as conservationist stuff and it progressed (as the World started burning) to climate change.

[Shindig]

What I don't get is that if you're going to do something on the energy front that's universally disliked, why in the fuck wouldn't you go nuclear?

Nuclear power plants take 15-20 years to build and spool up. Great if you're after long-term goals but the renewable energy lobby are big on, "WE'RE FIVE MINUTES FROM DEATH!" So wind and solar wins.

[Yevrah]

I thought it was about 5. As you were Liz.

[Shindig]

Trying to come up with a straight answer about reactor construction is a bit of a mess. On average, it's 10 but there's also some red tape and costs that impedes us from building reactors.

[Kikó]

Renewable energy is also much cheaper to build and quicker to deploy. Shame.

[Shindig]

Once the reactor is up to speed, it's cheaper to run for greater yield. Plus you need a lot less land. It should be an option but not the option.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Driving through France recently it struck me how great onshore wind is (I don't know how much of it they actually have statistically, but there were loads of windmills in certain regions). I thought it was quite nice to have these massive things visibly producing your energy. Beats electricity pylons, anyway.

Not sure why we can't have much more.

[randomlegend]

We're back to wondering whether she's thick or corrupt. The jury will be talking for some time I imagine.

https://dontforgetthebubbles.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/F1.large_.jpg

https://dontforgetthebubbles.com/fetal-alcohol-syndrome/

[niko_cee]

Not sure why we can't have much more.

Space/nimbyism.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Have you been to Lincolnshire? Just cover the whole place in them.

[niko_cee]

I have not.

Doesn't offshore wind generally make more sense for Britain though? Or is that massively more expensive?

[Pepe]

Nuclear power plants take 15-20 years to build and spool up. Great if you're after long-term goals but the renewable energy lobby are big on, "WE'RE FIVE MINUTES FROM DEATH!" So wind and solar wins.

Because of crazy regulations. Just bin those and you're good to go.

[Boydy]

According to this (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_onshore_wind_farms_in_the_United_Kingdom), there are more windfarms in Northern Ireland than England. What the fuck are you lot doing?

[Spikey M]

It's probably easier to convince the locals when their surroundings already look like an outtake from Fall Out 3.

Speaking of which, took the dog for a walk along Shoebury East Beach today. You could power half of the South East by sticking a load here.

https://i.ibb.co/8z18mnS/20221002-135417.jpg

[Cord]

I see Braverman has been talking about international students (aka the people that quite literally pay for our entire higher education sector) "not contributing to growth". I assume she's worked out the easiest route to claiming you've cut immigration is to start being a dick about student visas again.

Genuinely feels a bit like the country are all stood on some sort of Indiana Jones style rickety bridge over a chasm, watching our own demented government trying to chew through the ropes.

[Shindig]

Does she have any idea how Chinese Durham is?

[Lofty]

The business talking head on QT just gone reckoned Rolls Royce could crank out a nuclear generator that can power a city the size of Sheffield within 5 years.

[Lewis]

The Rolls-Royce reactor stuff seems to be stuck between financial guarantees and having a site (or at least plans to have one) to eventually stick all of the shit in, as well as the inevitable issues with pensioners not wanting their view of a turnip field ruined. It's proven technology so you have to wonder what else they are waiting for.

[Spikey M]

If it is legitimately fear of pissing people off, they should just build them in Labour safe-seats.

[Raoul Duke]

I still maintain we should just turn the middle bit of Australia into a giant solar array

[Ben]

Different ministry, same u-turns.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-63114183

[Lofty]

:D

[Luke Emia]

Is it not all part of the plan?

[Lewis]

The worry here is that it shows that they won't press the actually important things like planning reform, which sinks the full country as well as them. Maybe George Osborne was right (for once) and they should make everything into a proper budget with a confidence vote.

[Ben]

Yep. The 45p thing means very little, even against some of their other changes last Friday. But it's what will cut through most to the voters, even though those who follow politics see it for what it is: another naïve, indecisive Government.

[Boydy]

1576872022692745216

[Spikey M]

Nice of Ofgem to catch up.

[Ben]

Ofgem have been going over 20 years. They should have had such provisions written in all along. However likely or unlikely, it's a dreadful oversight on their part.

[Yevrah]

This has got to be one of the least cohesive party conferences in my lifetime. Everywhere you look there's another MP breaking ranks. Potentially another 18 months of this nonsense. :sick:

[Spikey M]

We really need an election. This lot are done. They must know they actually need a break to rebuild.

[Ben]

Our stupid country will vote them straight back in. :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

They won't this time.

I know it's over
But it never really began
But in my heart, it was so real

[Spikey M]

Anyone that votes Tory after this shit deserves all the misery they have coming.

[Spikey M]

They won't this time.

I know it's over
But it never really began
But in my heart, it was so real

The Lib Dems, Greens, SNP and Welsh mob could make it happen, sadly.

[Yevrah]

Our stupid country will vote them straight back in. :D

It's done. Cooked. Over.

Starmer appeals to the centre ground (and comes across as at least vaguely competent) so unless an act of God happens between now and whenever we do get an election, he's going to romp home.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Starmer has been very shrewd positionally over the last few years, so he's automatically going to be well up on where Corbyn was, and that's before you take into account the utter collapse in Tory support that has followed Truss's election. At worst he will go into coalition with the LDs and confidence and supply with the nats.

Most acts of god are bad for the Tories, the only thing that could stop them would be Starmer dying / being exposed as a paedo, and another Corbyn-esque mad lefty taking over.

[Ben]

Yeah, ask me a year ago and I'd be pretty negative on Starmer for staying in the background but really he knew what the Tories would do to themselves, so he's played a blinder.

[Shindig]

He still can't handle scousers.

[Don]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Bradley_(politician)

This fucker was on Newsnight last night and was one of the most impressive political figures I've seen in a while (admittedly low bar).

[Ben]

He's a complete idiot.

[Don]

Listening to Truss is so entertaining. It's like when the class thicko had to do a class presentation in year 5.

[Don]

Gahahhahaha. Gwan Greenpeace.

[Shindig]

The prime minister vows to open more gas fields in the UK in order to deliver more renewables.

Liz! STOP TALKING!

[Boydy]

BBC News - Oil price rise fears as Opec countries cut output
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63149044

Dickheads.

[Ben]

They still haven’t passed on the reduction so we shouldn’t see a difference in price at the pump. :eyemouth:

[Yevrah]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63175102

How utterly bizarre. Surely first week in the job you get a call into all of the World leaders.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not if you're as far out of your depth as Truss is.

If anyone wants to know what Corbyn as PM would have been like, the answer is basically this.

[Yevrah]

Labour now 37% ahead in a latest poll.

Will be interesting to see how the Tory knifemen act now.

[niko_cee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63175102

How utterly bizarre. Surely first week in the job you get a call into all of the World leaders.

:happycry:

[Boydy]

Not if you're as far out of your depth as Truss is.

If anyone wants to know what Corbyn as PM would have been like, the answer is basically this.

Oh fuck off.

This is like when people say "this is like communist russia" or some shit when they're actually talking about the effects of capitalism in the here and now.

[Don]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/07/obr-forecasts-likely-to-show-60bn-70bn-hole-after-kwartengs-mini-budget

All 3 of those options open to him sound like suicide which makes for a fantastic day of lols/turmoil to come when he gives that statement, the fucking retard.

[Yevrah]

Isn't £70bn roughly what we spend on education for an entire year? These people are genuinely killing the country.

[Spikey M]

Oh fuck off.

This is like when people say "this is like communist russia" or some shit when they're actually talking about the effects of capitalism in the here and now.

We have him comparing a Tory PM to (what he sees as) the worst possible Labour PM. Take the backhanded wins where you can.

He'll be wearing a Gordon Brown themed christmas jumper soon enough.

[Shindig]

My worry is that shit, genuinely thick politicians are now becoming the norm.

[Spikey M]

My worry is that shit, genuinely thick politicians are now becoming the norm.

Capitalism, innit. The bright people go where the money is.

That's why politics, teaching, the police, and basically anything else important is in a mess.

[niko_cee]

Doesn't that line of thinking rather break down when one considers the sort of people who used to inhabit those jobs [making no judgment as to whether they still do]?

If you want to 'ism it isn't it more likely to be symptomatic of populism, lack of engagement and a constant search for easy answers that ABOVE ALL ELSE keep the triple lock in place? Having vaguely sensible or coherent policies is basically a death knell in modern politics. Didn't Sunak run his whole leadership campaign on the line that you can't let this idiot do what she is promising to do as it will tank the economy?

[Magic]

But look who was voting.

[Yevrah]

I haven't lost all hope, preferring to think it's a freak set of circumstances that have led us down this path. Boris getting rid of all the sensible Tories so he could surround himself with Brexiteers to get his shitty deal done, coupled with the worst Party leader in all of human history (before Truss came along), is, I would suggest, a bit of a blip.

Starmer looks like someone you'd be comfortable leaving your kids with, so I suspect once the Thatcher wannabe and her innumerate chancellor have gone we'll get some form of sense back.

[Lewis]

Feel like pure shit just want managed decline back x

[Yevrah]

If anything looks like managed decline, it's this.

[randomlegend]

This looks more unmanaged.

[Yevrah]

And James Cleverley was pulling that sort of bullshit on QT last night "we had to do something", yes but what you've chosen to do has or will cost a lot of people money before they've even had the sodding tax cut. Money that will dwarf the tax cuts. I appreciate their plan has been modified slightly since it was so well received, but as far as I can tell it remains this:

1. Slash tax, giving people more money to drive growth
2. Terrify the markets, forcing the cost of borrowing through the roof and giving everyone who rents or has a mortgage far less money in their pockets
3. ????
4. Profit!

Happy to be corrected if I'm missing something?

[Yevrah]

This looks more unmanaged.

On the contrary, they seem to be saying that either they don't care about the cost of borrowing or they've factored that necessary evil into their masterplan. A masterplan that definitely contains numbers that all add up.

[randomlegend]

I think there's a point at which management is so bad it ceases to deserve to be called management. We are well the wrong side of that point.

[Lewis]

I said during the leadership campaign that simply cutting taxes wasn't going to do anything. We will have to wait and see what reforms they have to things like the planning system, energy, etc. People have lolled at her saying that there is an 'anti-growth coalition', but it does exist (although she never said that half of it sits behind her), and everything depends on her doing something about it.

[Ben]

Literally nobody with any modicum of influence over UK politics is anti-growth. The only people you can put in that category are part of niche movements who will gain less votes than Farage at the polls. There seems to be some narrative that the people who want to redistribute the wealth want to do so at the expense of growing the economy. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

[Yevrah]

I said during the leadership campaign that simply cutting taxes wasn't going to do anything. We will have to wait and see what reforms they have to things like the planning system, energy, etc. People have lolled at her saying that there is an 'anti-growth coalition', but it does exist (although she never said that half of it sits behind her), and everything depends on her doing something about it.

Why isn't she talking about doing something about it then and what that might include? Presumably she's not worried about making things worse at this stage, were she even in the first place.

[Lewis]

Literally nobody with any modicum of influence over UK politics is anti-growth. The only people you can put in that category are part of niche movements who will gain less votes than Farage at the polls. There seems to be some narrative that the people who want to redistribute the wealth want to do so at the expense of growing the economy. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

Don't you work you in some sort of construction job? Would you describe the current rules around housebuilding - to use one example, given that that is the biggest economic problem we have - as optimal, or would you say that the government could improve them? If it could, do you expect that doing so would encounter organised opposition beyond formal political parties? That is what she means, not the Labour Party specifically (although they would oppose any reform).

[Lewis]

Why isn't she talking about doing something about it then and what that might include? Presumably she's not worried about making things worse at this stage, were she even in the first place.

They've said they will have a load of reforms ready to go in time for whatever this November budget is. They ought to have done them as a full package with the tax cuts (it would be nice to say 4D chess and call it an attempt to force the pathetic party wankers to back them, but that might be stretching it), but they didn't, possibly under pressure to DO SOMETHING. Let's see what they are.

[Yevrah]

The rules don't stop houses being built - tanking house prices across the South of England stops houses being built, with the rules a convenient excuse.

[Yevrah]

They've said they will have a load of reforms ready to go in time for whatever this November budget is. They ought to have done them as a full package with the tax cuts (it would be nice to say 4D chess and call it an attempt to force the pathetic party wankers to back them, but that might be stretching it), but they didn't, possibly under pressure to DO SOMETHING. Let's see what they are.

And if they're not enough, how fucked do you reckon we'll be?

[Lewis]

The rules allow local politicians to block development in response to those incentives. That should not be the case, and definitely shouldn't be the case with national infrastructure (see: the previous reservoir discussions).

[Lewis]

And if they're not enough, how fucked do you reckon we'll be?

No more than we were last month, for all of the instant screeching. We'll just continue the decline, shovel more and more of a dwindling GDP into the health service, and then wake up one day and realise we're a middle income country. The 'sensible' Labour Party won't do anything different by the way. They will just set the clock to the day before David Cameron called the referendum and get an easier ride off of Twitter.

[7om]

Are we in decline, Lewis? And why are we in decline, exactly?

[Spikey M]

We've been in decline since America came out of WW2 completely unscathed and took over the production market for pretty much everything. Asia getting involved made it worse. Were it not for our dodgy financial sector offering essentially legal money laundering services, we'd already be a "middle income country". It's all we have.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We've been in decline since we stupidly entered World War I and sent 880,000 young men to die in it.

[Waffdon]

Well that’s livened the mood up.

[Boydy]

The country's been asset-stripped since the 80s. Not just in terms of nationalised industries being privatised but also in the case of big British businesses.

Decent read here if a bit old now: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2129523/amp/How-Britain-sold-half-companies-foreigners.html

And it hasn't slowed down since that article: Foreign takeovers of UK firms hit highest level since 2018 (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/07/foreign-takeovers-of-uk-firms-hit-highest-level-since-2018)

[Lewis]

Are we in decline, Lewis? And why are we in decline, exactly?

Productivity growth has stalled since 2007, and we've had meh growth since (and ten years of mostly pretend growth before). We're standing still as everybody else goes forward, to the point where we're more likely to be overtaken by Eastern European countries than we are to catch up to more prosperous Western ones. The government-caused housing crisis distorts the entire economy and makes everybody significantly worse off; higher education is mostly fraudulent and makes everybody worse off; we can't build anything else (https://www.ft.com/content/397a75aa-3047-432e-8664-d1974fbb05df) that might make us better off; politics is absolute AIDS; and so on and so on. We've also got the whole multicultural demographic disaster humming away in the background, but increased prosperity might at least postpone some of those problems, which seems like reason enough to prioritise pro-growth policies over whingers.

[Lofty]

The trade minister has had the whip removed because he said something dodgy to Mel B in a lift at the party conference :D