UK General Election 2017 - 8 June

[Magic]

#borisorbust

[phonics]

Half joking half serious question.

If the SNP decided to no longer exist would they achieve all their party aims within 2 election cycles.

[Ben]

Dan Hodges reckons Boris won’t run. Hodges is a ball bag but he’s well connected.

I have to agree with this. Lots of bluster from Boris supporters about his remaining popularity but I suspect he will choose to bow out even though he says he would have won if he ran to save face.

[Boydy]

Dan Hodges is almost always wrong about everything. If he says Boris won't run, then he's definitely running.

[Shindig]

I think he'll run because his leaving speech was full of sour grapes.

[Yevrah]

Indeed. Everything we know about him suggests he'll run. The man is genuinely ill (and yes Boyd, also a cunt) and he will 100% believe that it's in the country's best interests for him to be back in power.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He won't run. He'll be fucking desperate to, inside. But he won't.

[Spikey M]

Just confused Laura Kuenssberg for Liz Truss on BBC News. RL can you confirm she also has Alchie baby face syndrome please?

[randomlegend]

Nah she's just a cunt.

[Yevrah]

Business Secretary Jacob Rees-Mogg tells the BBC Boris Johnson "will clearly stand" for the party leadership

It's gonna be sad when this breaks another board great.

[Boydy]

1584150583832809477

:lol:

[Shindig]

Anybody know where some Catholics can source an unusual amount of gunpower?

[Lewis]

'Stats for Lefties'. Probably follows 'Larry the Cat' and that absolute freak pretending to be Ken Clarke.

[phonics]

Bojos out.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Booooo.

[Ben]

He did exactly what I thought. Dropped out but let everyone know he had 100 backers.

[Yevrah]

Really thought he'd run, so chalk that one down in the wrong column. Prime Minister Rishi it is from tomorrow then. Doesn't even need to go to the members now, does it?

[Jimmy Floyd]

You should listen to your uncle Jimmy when it comes to this kind of arcane, petty bullshit.

[Dave.]

that absolute freak pretending to be Ken Clarke.

Who would want to pretend to be Ken Clarke? Even Ken Clarke doesn't want to be Ken Clarke.

[Yevrah]

Yep, fair's fair, you called it all along.

[Boydy]

What a fanny.

[Magic]

He's done the honourable thing and put his country first. Totally selfless man and an inspiration to us all.

[Lewis]

Who would want to pretend to be Ken Clarke? Even Ken Clarke doesn't want to be Ken Clarke.

They just tweet banal centrist talking points and saddos lap it up because they think it's really him. It's more the idea that someone out there is trying to put themselves in the Ken Clarke headspace before tweeting that makes it particular lol.

'"Boris Johnson is..."'
*puffs on an imaginary cigar*
*swirls imaginary drink*
'Haha, yes. "Boris Johnson is not very good".'

[Jimmy Floyd]

The only accounts I dislike more than those are the likes of 'NHS Million' and similar ones that tweet things like: 'Jacob Rees-Mogg doesn't want you to know he's posh. It would be a shame if this picture of him being posh in a posh hat was liked and retweeted.'

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Why come back from holiday just to pull out?

[Ben]

Just for the novelty. Pulling out isn't usually his style.

[7om]

That’s like a tap-in from 2 yards for Ben.

[niko_cee]

What's the shortest anyone has ever gone from first being elected as an MP to being Prime Minister? Feels like Sunak must be quite close to that unless some chancer from antiquity managed to win a seat and an election as leader once upon a time. Ah no, thought he first got in in 2019 but seems it was actually 2015.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In recent times David Cameron (9 years) was the fastest. Can't imagine anyone (that I've heard of) from the past was much faster than that, they were always really old when they got in. Gladstone took 40 years and then had 4 stints. Keep going Bojo, there's still time.

[Ben]

There was a caller on LBC (lol I know) kicking off about Sunak because he's not British (ie. not white), but he was Boris' biggest fan who ironically was born in New York City. They challenged him on being obviously racist and he couldn't fathom it. Thick as mince and people like that have the same voting power I do. Fuck democracy.

[Kikó]

You don't love England as much as we do.

[igor_balis]

They just tweet banal centrist talking points and saddos lap it up because they think it's really him. It's more the idea that someone out there is trying to put themselves in the Ken Clarke headspace before tweeting that makes it particular lol.

'"Boris Johnson is..."'
*puffs on an imaginary cigar*
*swirls imaginary drink*
'Haha, yes. "Boris Johnson is not very good".'

Yeah there's a kind of "parody" account you get where it's just like

NOT Lizz Truss (SATIRE - FAKE ACCOUNT) - today I am going to do something stupid!!

I mean it ain't quite the day today is it? The one dork I'm following (some guy I went to school with) who is always liking and retweeting biting material like that is also constantly liking stuff from the terrible HIGNFY page, and stuff along the lines of "um, has everyone forgotten we're still in the middle of a pandemic?!?!" Oh and anti Brexit stuff. If I got too le tissier I could easily start to think it was a kind of false flag to turn me into a covid denying brexiteering fascist.

[Spikey M]

Yeah there's a kind of "parody" account you get where it's just like

NOT Lizz Truss (SATIRE - FAKE ACCOUNT) - today I am going to do something stupid!!

I mean it ain't quite the day today is it? The one dork I'm following (some guy I went to school with) who is always liking and retweeting biting material like that is also constantly liking stuff from the terrible HIGNFY page, and stuff along the lines of "um, has everyone forgotten we're still in the middle of a pandemic?!?!" Oh and anti Brexit stuff. If I got too le tissier I could easily start to think it was a kind of false flag to turn me into a covid denying brexiteering fascist.

You're such a Lib Dem.

[igor_balis]

You're such a Lib Dem.

Well I dunno, I think pathetic centrist freaks are exactly the kind of people who like the content I've just described. If cosy blunt "satire" and thinking us having left the European Union is still one of the most pressing issues facing the UK in late 2022 isn't quintessentially lib dem I dunno what is.

This girl I work with and her partner both identify as being "very left wing" but both support the lib dems cus of their anti-brexit stance and i don't even need to check their grownups back in the room Twitter feeds to know it'll be full of wank like that.

[Lofty]

Anyone who identfies as very left wing and isn't pro-Brexit missed the memo.

[niko_cee]

Including old Corbz, sadly.

What a sliding doors moment that was for the country. Doubt that alternative reality would have panned out any better though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The worst thing those people do is lionise basically any European politician (and US Democrats) as being 'the grown-ups', as if these countries don't have the same bullshit going on or have corrupt/morally bankrupt political classes. Look at Germany ffs, spent the last 20 years enabling Putin.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What a sliding doors moment that was for the country. Doubt that alternative reality would have panned out any better though.

I reckon much worse, as the Brexit people would have solidified into a sort of Tea Party force with a unifying grievance, in the way that the SNP did after losing the referendum.

[igor_balis]

Anyone who identfies as very left wing and isn't pro-Brexit missed the memo.

I think my colleague and her partner, being sheltered middle class people who live in a cottage in the affluent bit of the Leicestershire countryside surrounded by other middle class crackers, think being left wing is just pronouns in signatures and using chopsticks in wagamama. I'm not saying I hate pronouns and chopsticks, but you know what I'm saying.

[Ben]

Including old Corbz, sadly.

What a sliding doors moment that was for the country. Doubt that alternative reality would have panned out any better though.

He'd have won in 2017 and been a working class hero for a bit before the Salisbury poisonings torpedoed him.

[Lewis]

A manlet Prime Minister we're finished.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I give him a month.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He's 5ft 6, Maggie and Churchill were 5ft 5. It's the apex height range for prime ministerial greatness.

[Lewis]

And his wife looks like when E.T. gets dressed up.

[Gray Fox]

How will Tory voters cope with having to vote for someone who isn't white?

[Ben]

A manlet Prime Minister we're finished.

Putin is 5'6" and you're fine with him.

[Boydy]

And his wife looks like when E.T. gets dressed up.
:lol:

[Boydy]

Was the autocue scrolling too slowly? He was very robotic in that. Seemed like he was waiting for it to scroll up to read what to say next.

It was also seemingly off to the side so he wasn't looking at the camera.

[Lewis]

Apparently he wants all the toilets taken out of government buildings. Reverse colonised. Double finished.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Was the autocue scrolling too slowly? He was very robotic in that. Seemed like he was waiting for it to scroll up to read what to say next.

It was also seemingly off to the side so he wasn't looking at the camera.

It's Boris Johnson in a Rishi Sunak suit.

[Waffdon]

Was the autocue scrolling too slowly? He was very robotic in that. Seemed like he was waiting for it to scroll up to read what to say next.

It was also seemingly off to the side so he wasn't looking at the camera.

1584569263582760960

Lol

[Yevrah]

Jesus fuck, why is it seemingly so hard to get someone vaguely normal in charge. Pork Markets.

[randomlegend]

Genuinely thought the video was buffering

[Boydy]

It wasn't exactly a long speech either. Surely it would've been easy enough to just wing it.

[Giggles]

A brown. This wasn’t the brexit vision.

[niko_cee]

Probably the first 'OG' Brexit Prime Minister though, so it's a tricky one.

[Ben]

Kind of strange that an economist would back Brexit. Sure they all jumped on the bandwagon by the end but he was there from the beginning.

[7om]

That speech :D

Why is it so beyond these people to be normal.

[Magic]

Because anything that remotely resembles being human is pounced upon by the media.

[Spikey M]

Kind of strange that an economist would back Brexit. Sure they all jumped on the bandwagon by the end but he was there from the beginning.

Stronger links with the Commonwealth, innit.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Within 30 years this country will just be a proxy battlefield in the India-Pakistan conflict, which I suppose is what we deserve for having started it.

[Lewis]

'Nixon to China', and he deports every single one of them.

[Spikey M]

Within 30 years this country will just be a proxy battlefield in the India-Pakistan conflict, which I suppose is what we deserve for having started it.

Isn't that already the case in parts of the county? (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/20/leicester-call-for-calm-after-hindu-muslim-unrest-in-uk-city)?

[mo]

1584616837375209477

Summing up the thoughts of the nation there.

Edit: Sorry, you've to click the picture to get the full glorious poem.

[Spikey M]

:D fucking hell.

That has to be satire.

[Boydy]

Isn't that a rip off of some shitty poem that was doing the rounds about the queen?

Has to be someone taking the piss. "10 Downing Street up above"? He's not fucking dead.

[mo]

The thought crossed my mind. But people do genuinely seem to think Boris is not a gigantic twat, so anything is possible.

[Boydy]

It is.


Googled "awful poem about the queen dying" and got this story.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11198149/amp/Gemma-Collins-receives-backlash-moving-tribute-following-death-Queen-Elizabeth-II.html

This fucking country. :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

He isn't dead, darling. EDIT: thank god.

[Lofty]

Braverman back as Home Secretary already, absolutely mental :D

[Ben]

Hang on, didn't she breach national security?

EDIT: Fucking Raab as well.

[Boydy]

1584831015683776512

Ffs :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

He's obviously trying to fob the loons off with (what he sees as) the culture war bullshit departments, while Sensible Adults do the money.

Won't work, but might get him through the 2 years to the next election.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1584831015683776512

Ffs :D

Rashid Sanook :cool:

[Lewis]

Get that fucking plane in the air Suella sweetheart. Chuck them out over the sea. Majority doubled.

[Kikó]

Chuck innocent people into the sea. No wonder you have no mates.

[Spikey M]

He has Manc Sean tyvm

[niko_cee]

Isn't Rashid going to also have to explain to dear old Suella that immigrants are actually very much needed? Maybe he figures he has to keep that wing of the party placated and that, in reality, the 'Rwanda Solution' is never really going to lead anywhere [blame the lefty courts when it inevitably fails].

[Lewis]

He has Manc Sean tyvm

I blew him out for the gym a few months ago and haven't heard from him since.

[Don]

Kiko, lad, thesr are the brown variety, stand down.

[Luke Emia]

Isn't Rashid going to also have to explain to dear old Suella that immigrants are actually very much needed? Maybe he figures he has to keep that wing of the party placated and that, in reality, the 'Rwanda Solution' is never really going to lead anywhere [blame the lefty courts when it inevitably fails].

Part of me wonders if he is just giving her the rope and will let her hang herself. She already made numerous mistakes in the short time she was in Truss' government and it may just be a case of let her fuck up then when she does sack her and tell the mentals on the far-right that you gave her a chance and she fucked it.

[Ben]

Having a high profile sacking early doors won't be a great look. It would have been better optics to just jettison her to the backbenches.

[Luke Emia]

Having a high profile sacking early doors won't be a great look. It would have been better optics to just jettison her to the backbenches.

But potentially this way he can say at least he tried with having a nutjob in place. Maybe I'm wrong and he is actually just as much as a mentalist on immigration as her and actually wants her in place.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He'll have had to do it to get her endorsement and help to see off Boris. A bit like how we have to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia in exchange for whatever it is we get in exchange.

[Lewis]

Using that resignation excuse was a bit short-termist, given that there will be thousands of such 'security breaches' every single day, but it makes sense. Reducing immigration - particularly illegal immigration - is one of the few things the Conservative Party can conceivably take into the next election.

[Ben]

Yet they'll fail to do it anyway. They bang that drum as much as the fiscally responsible one, and look where that got us.

[Raoul Duke]

Also the country is dying on it's arse without immigration, so it'd be pretty retarded (but not surprising from this shower of cunts)

[Ben]

1584987093096628224

Someone tell me this guy isn’t just living a life long parody.

[Jimmy Floyd]

My contact in BEIS confirms that he is a technophobe, doesn't have any computers/tech items in his office, and prefers everyone to go with hand-written notes. So yes, utter parody.

The same contact basically on a week-long bender to celebrate Mogg's demise.

[Spikey M]

1584987093096628224

Someone tell me this guy isn’t just living a life long parody.

Fount the below having a little look on that page. Mental. We're DEFINITELY a true democracy though.1584535088049844224?t=ObS5M1fC32n4WRqVQhW1D w&s=19

[Jimmy Floyd]

What would your true democracy look like?

[Yevrah]

I really don't get why Gordon Brown or Rishi Sunak getting into office in the ways they did constitutes us not living in a democracy. Would people rather Boris was still in the job or that there were general elections every time a change was needed?

[Spikey M]

What would your true democracy look like?

At a bare minimum we should be having a general election when a PM is forced out of office, and I would support referendums on any major policy shifts from what was in the parties manifesto.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's a very effective system, everyone elects an MP and the MPs sort themselves out from there. Our system is actually a lot more dynamic than presidential systems where the Pres gets elected, has about six months to set out his platform, and then it quickly turns to electioneering for the next cycle / him being lame duck if it's his last term or if he's considered weak. Liz Truss was awful and our system was able to dispatch her at speed.

[-james-]

They should just do a poll on each of the top 10 off topic sections of former football manager website forums whenever anything important needs decided.

[-james-]

It's a very effective system, everyone elects an MP and the MPs sort themselves out from there. Our system is actually a lot more dynamic than presidential systems where the Pres gets elected, has about six months to set out his platform, and then it quickly turns to electioneering for the next cycle / him being lame duck if it's his last term or if he's considered weak. Liz Truss was awful and our system was able to dispatch her at speed.

Boris was also awful and he was hardly dispatched at speed. The fact they had to fiddle the rules to stop him having a chance at getting in again isn't fantastic either

[Jimmy Floyd]

If it was a presidential system he'd still be there until 2024 regardless, so count your blessings.

[Spikey M]

What you're essentially saying is "OK, you have Polio, but you could have been Ebola, so stop whining".

Having a better system than the one that sustained Ol' Donny T is one thing. Having a system that let Liz fucking Truss in without the General Public having any say in it is another. I don't want either system.

[Manc]

At a bare minimum we should be having a general election when a PM is forced out of office.

Think it through.

[Spikey M]

Think it through.

What is there to think through? They could still elect a new Party Leader, but they would have to get them past the general public before they're allowed to go steaming into the sort of nonsense Truss did.

[Manc]

No party would risk a GE in that case and government would remain dysfunctional.

[Yevrah]

Strong performance from Rishi in PMQ's I thought.

[Ben]

I’ve just seen clips. I wouldn’t call it strong but he acted fairly normal and professional so it’s a huge improvement over what we’ve endured the last three years. A very low bar but I guess he’s cleared it.

[phonics]

My pub landlord boss is sending me some top top racist memes from the moment Rishi got in including Downing Street decorated as a Londis

[Ben]

They're rife on WhatsApp at the moment, too. Didn't realise racism was still so prevalent.

[7om]

A GE because of a change in Prime Minister is nonsense. If it’s the US where they directly elect them then fine. You elect your MP to vote for the leader on your behalf.

[Jimmy Floyd]

First, second and third woman, first Jewish, first Hindu, first non-white PMs all Tories.

Always had a theory that it's genuinely a more equal opportunities party, in that Fabianism etc require entrenched elites to have the luxury to come up with all the fancy plans.

[Lofty]

Been telling you lads he'll get slaughtered at the polls because it's the same people who voted Brexit over immigration. Barrow voted Brexit due to immigration fears and if you saw someone non-white in Barrow it was an event. I was seeing a girl of Fijian descent for a bit and the amount of comments was insane.

[Ian]

What you're essentially saying is "OK, you have Polio, but you could have been Ebola, so stop whining".

Having a better system than the one that sustained Ol' Donny T is one thing. Having a system that let Liz fucking Truss in without the General Public having any say in it is another. I don't want either system.

"No point hoping things get better (for you, commoner) because what if things change and they get worse?" may as well be the Tory motto.

Bit of a mouthful, mind. Maybe it'd sound catchier in Latin.

[John Arne]

I never knew that some Jews consider themselves POC. In all the painting of Disraeli he looks awfully white.

1584533301900939264

[Jimmy Floyd]

In those days everyone strained to fit in, whereas nowadays everyone strains to stand out.

[mo]

It never occurred to you that Jews originate from the Middle East :cab:

[Pepe]

"Brown man" :sick:

[John Arne]

I've never really associated Middle East as POC, really. If POC basically means anything but European white - then fair enough.

[Pepe]

It means whatever is convenient to the person using the term.

[Spikey M]

I've never really associated Middle East as POC, really. If POC basically means anything but European white - then fair enough.

To Americans even the Spanish and Italians are POC.

[phonics]

And the Irish.

[Pepe]

When convenient. Other times even Hispanics and Asians are white.

[mikem]

When convenient. Other times even Hispanics and Asians are white.

You make it sound like this only occurs from “the woke.” Pretty much everyone gets up to it - see Kanye, the Nation of Islam, and the hoteph crowd. I remember being very surprised to see some weirdo facist group on tv refer to me as “not-white” for being a Jew. It happens to almost every ethnic group because weirdo race stuff is weird, including that tweet.

And it will be true in the UK as well. It’s just all dumb weird nonsense.

[Ben]

In the eyes of racists, white people are basically the guys Hitler would give a pass. Persons of colour are every fucker else who would have gone through the chambers.

[Spikey M]

I suppose its the problem with Race being so loosely defined that religion and nationality are thrown in. It also doesn't help that race in and of its self is a bit of a nonsense. Skin colour is a spectrum and there are light skinned black people with lighter skin than more olive skinned white people. It's all a load of wibble.

[mikem]

It is all silly secondary / high school in and out group sorting done on a national scale. To show how weird it all is, in the last three weeks I’ve heard about:

Trump yammering on about how us Jews are not grateful for an embassy in some country I’ve never been to, don’t have any family in, or whatever. At least he finally said out loud that the real “Israel lobby” isn’t Jewish but evangelical Christian. The left gets up to this “your only a secondary American” even more than he does.

The whole silly Nation of Islam stuff where they are the real Jews and the Jews are not the Jews. But wait, the Jewish media and Jewish bankers control everything- even though we are not really the jews. It’s so clearly broken brained but ….

The right wing fascist grifters who’ve glommed on to the above for kicks and giggles.

I’m sure I can find the weirdo right wing Jewish Ben Shapiro types telling me how I’m not a real jew somehow cause reasons delivered in a high squeaky voice that can really only be understood by dogs. All just as a sop because they have a fascist adjacent audience they need to sell too.

And that slightly weird Twitter post trying to fit into whatever the current silliness is. Sure it is silly but hardly the worst shit we are gonna get this week.

[Pepe]

You make it sound like this only occurs from “the woke.”

Nah, idiots come in all shapes and denominations. At least we can agree that everyone trying to racialize shit, no matter their alleged intentions, is a moron, right?

[mikem]

Obviously, but potential outcomes can vary.

[Lewis]

'POC' is a state of mind.

[Pepe]

Global majority.

[Lewis]

I bet Sunak's parents are the biggest racists imaginable. He'll be all Californian and tolerant, but his wife probably considers herself and their kids white.

[Ben]

I've just noticed Gav is back in the Cabinet. How the fuck does he do it?

[Ian]

I can only assume it's for morale. How could you feel stupid or incompetent with him around?

[Yevrah]

Interesting that Rishi's getting shit for not going to COP27. I'd originally thought the number after COP signified the number of countries attending, but it turns out it's the edition of the event. 26 of these cunting things from 1995 and the situation is infinitely worse since then. An absolute waste of time.

[Lewis]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20248220/suella-braverman-leak-plan-growth-visa/

If that was it then lol at the 'threat to national security' hysteria.

[Ben]

The contents are irrelevant. It's the fact she used her private email address and then lied about it. Having a Home Secretary with that type of form could be dangerous down the line.

[Lewis]

I would be quite happy to see everyone who mishandles government information sacked and killed, but, in a world where leaking is a routine part of political life, and where it's all done anonymously, singling her out looks like media bollocks. Who told the Sun what she was leaking? Did they use their gov.uk e-mail address to do so?

[Ben]

I don't think she's being singled out at all. She's in the news because it was leaked and a Home Secretary is probably the last person you want to be chancing shit over WhatsApp and Hotmail so it's a juicy scoop for The Sun or whatever. Patel was in the news when she did it (twice). When lesser ministers do it, it does become public information but is just neglected from mainstream media because their readers don't give a shit what the Minister of State for Food gets up to.

I reckon it was Coffey who grassed her up. Braverman lied to Truss and seemingly Truss wasn't about to sack her so Coffey made it front page news.

[Boydy]

1586240654426148865

How long until we rejoin?

[Giggles]

It’ll be 20 years minimum, and it probably won’t even exist at that stage. There is absolutely nothing could make you go back currently.

[Yevrah]

I haven't watched the Ross Atkins video yet, but the most apparent problem so far (which COVID also didn't help with) is lack of staff, which is hurting almost every industry it seems and no fucker is even talking about it being a problem, let alone how they solve it.

[Giggles]

It’s solved with foreigners, which you’re sticking on planes to camps in Ethiopia now.

[Spikey M]

It would be an awful shame if these companies had to start paying a decent wage.

[Yevrah]

It would be an awful shame if these companies had to start paying a decent wage.

While they should be doing so, I don't think that solves it, there just aren't the people to offer roles to in the first place now.

[Spikey M]

While they should be doing so, I don't think that solves it, there just aren't the people to offer roles to in the first place now.

There are, they're just not insentivised to bother. There is very little difference between working 35 hours on minimum wage and Universal Credit for stay at home parents for example. Especially when you factor in child care.

[Ben]

Capitalism would implode overnight if it was mandated that they had to pay everyone decent wages. The entire business model depends on being able to flog the working class.

[Spikey M]

Earlier this week I spoke to a woman that's been on UC for years. She took a job at a shop in Wickford earning minimum wage. To do this she drove from her home in Basildon to her mums in Hadleigh to drop her kid off, then to work in Wickford and did the same trip in reverse after work.

Come her next UC payment, she was only about £200 better off for the month because UC deducts 60p for ever £1 you earn. She was spending most of that extra £200 on petrol. It literally wasn't worth her effort. So she fucked it off. Work doesn't pay at "grass roots" anymore. It's pathetic.

Fix that and we have enough people to fill the jobs.

[Spikey M]

Capitalism would implode overnight if it was mandated that they had to pay everyone decent wages. The entire business model depends on being able to flog the working class.

But yeah. This is the problem. Minimum wage being basically equal to state benefits is a joke.

[randomlegend]

Capitalism would implode overnight if it was mandated that they had to pay everyone decent wages. The entire business model depends on being able to flog the working class.

Is that really true? Or would those at the top of the chains just have to make do with having millions and millions of pounds rather than hundreds of millions or billions of pounds?

[Spikey M]

Is that really true? Or would those at the top of the chains just have to make do with having millions and millions of pounds rather than hundreds of millions or billions of pounds?

I'm sure Rishi will get straight on enforcing that.

[Lewis]

Who did these jobs when we were kids and companies couldn't just rustle up thousands of Eastern Europeans and Indians? Where did all the automated car washes go?

[Spikey M]

Who did these jobs when we were kids and companies couldn't just rustle up thousands of Eastern Europeans and Indians? Where did all the automated car washes go?

People like my mum. She worked in Wilko's while I was at school. These days she would be better off on Universal Credit.

[Pepe]

People like my mum. She worked in Wilko's while I was at school. These days she would be better off on Universal Credit.

So is it "capitalism's" fault or "the dole's" fault?

[Lewis]

The government makes the fundamentals expensive (housing, energy, fucking everything) which removes incentives to work, imports people to do the jobs, which then removes any incentives for companies to train and pay better wages, which... It's another ponzi scheme that Brexit was meant to help solve, but instead they just shit themselves and let a load of non-Europeans in when we would be better off with ten Poles to every Pakistani we take in.

[Spikey M]

So is it "capitalism's" fault or "the dole's" fault?

Politicians fault. For allowing welfare and entry level work to become equivalent. Obviously it's fixable in 2 ways:

1) reduce benefits.
2) increase wages.

I would imagine no. 2 is the fairest option, but no.1 is almost certainly the wall we will piss up at some point.

[Yevrah]

If we do have all these available workers who are understandably choosing to take UC ahead of working, yet employers are still desperate for staff, how is unemployment at its lowest level since the 70s?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/unemployment#:~:text=The%20unemployment%20rate%20f or%20June,since%20December%20to%20February%201974.

Something doesn't add up there.

[Pepe]

If hiring someone at a higher wage was better for a company than not hiring someone at all, then they would just do that, wouldn't they? If roles are unfilled right now, raising the minimum wage will just make companies not bother.

I just don't think government can be very effective at increasing wages. Maybe the kicking the foreigners out would work, who the fuck knows.

[Pepe]

If we do have all these available workers who are understandably choosing to take UC ahead of working, yet employers are still desperate for staff, how is unemployment at its lowest level since the 70s?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/unemployment#:~:text=The%20unemployment%20rate%20f or%20June,since%20December%20to%20February%201974.

Something doesn't add up there.

Your population becoming too old?

[phonics]

Unemployment is at its lowest in god knows how long and no one can pay their bills but the dole is the problem.

[Spikey M]

If we do have all these available workers who are understandably choosing to take UC ahead of working, yet employers are still desperate for staff, how is unemployment at its lowest level since the 70s?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/unemployment#:~:text=The%20unemployment%20rate%20f or%20June,since%20December%20to%20February%201974.

Something doesn't add up there.

Because "employment" is misleading. We didn't have zero hour contracts in the 70's. There are a fuck tonne of people "working" that have no work. There are also a fuck tonne of people working for 3 or 4 different employers to make up full time hours. I'm not sure how that is reflected in the figures, but I imagine it's taken advantage of.

[Spikey M]

Unemployment is at its lowest in god knows how long and no one can pay their bills but the dole is the problem.

If you took that from what I'm saying then I don't know how to help you, because it is quite plainly not what I am saying. It's the opposite of what I'm saying, in fact. Wages are the problem.

Unless you weren't talking to me, of course.

[Pepe]

I didn't say that the dole is the problem either, but phonics gonna phonics.

[Pepe]

What do you think of this Lewis?

https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/a-brief-history-of-the-uk

[Spikey M]

If hiring someone at a higher wage was better for a company than not hiring someone at all, then they would just do that, wouldn't they? If roles are unfilled right now, raising the minimum wage will just make companies not bother.

I just don't think government can be very effective at increasing wages. Maybe the kicking the foreigners out would work, who the fuck knows.

They would, in normal times, I imagine. But businesses are facing the same COST OF LIVING CRISIS as the rest of us, so they can't afford to at the moment.

[Yevrah]

No one has, his ability to read things that aren't there is outstanding.

[Pepe]

They would, in normal times, I imagine. But businesses are facing the same COST OF LIVING CRISIS as the rest of us, so they can't afford to at the moment.

I'll blame shit energy policy from pretty much everyone in the last few decades.

[Shindig]

A lot of people working for the likes of Uber/Deliveroo and so on will be working as self-employed, too. That's before you even get to the Youtube/Instagram/Twitch/OnlyFans/TikTok personalities.

[Spikey M]

I'll blame shit energy policy from pretty much everyone in the last few decades.

Not to mention various national banks just casually leaving interest rates at 0.0000001% for a decade for no reason.

[Spikey M]

A lot of people working for the likes of Uber/Deliveroo and so on will be working as self-employed, too. That's before you even get to the Youtube/Instagram/Twitch/OnlyFans/TikTok personalities.

Between the "gig economy" and the breaking down of full time jobs into 2 or 3 part time jobs for tax cuts, employment figures are completely irrelevant to those of the 70's, where one bloke with a paper round could support a family of 9. And buy 3 houses.

[Lewis]

What do you think of this Lewis?

https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/a-brief-history-of-the-uk

Hope you aren't paying to read his blog.

[Pepe]

Lol no.

[Pepe]

The only thing I pay for on the interwebs is Gamepass and I should probably cancel it since I never use it.

[Pepe]

I would pay for this place.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He didn't answer his own question about the language, which is very important. We were invaded so many times way back when that our language takes all the best concepts from Latin, Germanic, Scandinavian, Celtic etc in a survival of the fittest scenario. The result is that English is far more efficient than other languages as well as being easier to say in the mouth.

In an English cafe the waiter says 'Inside or outside?' while in France one is asked 'Would you like to install yourself at the interior or the exterior?' Add that up for every single interaction in a human life and it becomes much easier speaking English.

[Pepe]

Surely a language that takes the best concepts from other languages would pronounce things exactly as they are spelled like Spanish and Italian do.

[Spikey M]

Nobody should strive to sound like the Italians. :sick:

[Pepe]

Italian. :drool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Spelling only comes in much later, which is why the 200 year old Americans (wrongly) think that matching the two has any kind of relevance.

[Lofty]

The Liz Truss phone hacking stuff is too far fetched for The Thick of It.

[Magic]

Have they really banked this to save Stella?

[Manc]

https://youtu.be/VecedRF-3Vw

[Lofty]

Matt Hancock suspended as Tory MP for joining Im a Celeb :D

[Ben]

Would this trigger a by-election? I can’t imagine the constituency is too thrilled about having no MP for a while.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They have an MP, he just isn't a Tory. Joins the Indepedent naughty list (quite an entertaining cast of characters (https://members.parliament.uk/members/Commons?SearchText=&PartyId=8&Gender=Any&ForParliament=0&ShowAdvanced=False))

[Boydy]

I haven't seen Mick Lynch on any news programmes for quite a while now. Did they just stop getting him on because they got fed up with being made to look like fools?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Surely he's been cancelled or milkshake ducked by now? Support for Russia or historical anti-semitism the lowest hanging fruit normally.

[Boydy]

He hasn't. I think there was an attempted cancelling of Eddie Dempsey but it didn't really seem to take off.

[Ben]

He obliterated some MPs at a select committee hearing a few weeks ago but I think the media are dodging him for the reasons you stated.

[Yevrah]

Indeed. He is a quite excellent public speaker and interviewee and neither the media nor his opponents had any clue how to deal with that.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He has the mildly introverted, zero bullshit approach which is the antithesis of everything that anyone in mainstream politics or the media understands about communication. They only know pre-prepared soundbites, thrusting egotism, and doublespeak. The media training industry must have shat itself during some of his interviews.

His approach was much more common in the 70s and earlier, hopefully he will herald its reintroduction but there's no fraudulent guru money in that so I doubt it.

[Boydy]

It's fucking shit though. The most left-wing person I've seen on tv recently (Peston last night and Question Time maybe a couple of weeks ago) has been Jess fucking Phillips.

Union representatives should be on air as much, if not more than, these fucking opaquely funded thinktanks like the IEA.

[Boydy]

Also, blow up the bank of England.

Predicting the longest ever recession but also jacking up interest rates at the same time. Cunts.

[Luke Emia]

Also, blow up the bank of England.

Predicting the longest ever recession but also jacking up interest rates at the same time. Cunts.

They are so far behind the curve with these rate rises. Should have been at 3% this time last year when they were pissing about and now all they are doing is hammering the rate up now to bring it down again this time next year.

[Boydy]

Why should they have been at 3% last year?

[Ben]

Ideally they'd have been putting them up incrementally since about 2014. Squandering one of the main tools to tackle recessions (cutting interest rates) is completely idiotic.

[Spikey M]

Why should they have been at 3% last year?

I think that should read "this time last year at the latest".

Leaving interest rates at 0% (which we only had because of the 2008 financial crisis) for a decade, for absolutely no reason, is on par with what Liz Truss did.

[Boydy]

But then surely you'd have choked off the meagre growth we had throughout the 2010s?

[Boydy]

Ideally they'd have been putting them up incrementally since about 2014. Squandering one of the main tools to tackle recessions (cutting interest rates) is completely idiotic.

But they're predicting the "longest ever" recession now and they're putting interest rates up? They might not have room to cut them but surely you'd not raise them if they're one of the main tools to tackle recessions?

[Boydy]

But then surely you'd have choked off the meagre growth we had throughout the 2010s?
And probably also any economic recovery from covid?

[Boydy]

This an energy shock which the right used to their advantage in the 70s with the oil crises and we're seeing it (and falling for it) all over again.

[Spikey M]

But then surely you'd have choked off the meagre growth we had throughout the 2010s?

That's the Government's job to sort

[Ben]

But they're predicting the "longest ever" recession now and they're putting interest rates up? They might not have room to cut them but surely you'd not raise them if they're one of the main tools to tackle recessions?

They feel inflation getting out of control is more dangerous (in the short term) than a contracting economy.

Having both at the same time is why we're so fucked, needing to raise and cut interest rates concurrently.

[Luke Emia]

They feel inflation getting out of control is more dangerous (in the short term) than a contracting economy.

Having both at the same time is why we're so fucked, needing to raise and cut interest rates concurrently.

This is the issue and this is why rates should have risen earlier no it wouldn't have controlled all of the inflation but it would have had an impact on inflation whereas it's now 10% it might only have been 6/7% still not great but not as bad as it is and therefore it's then less likely to become embedded in the economy.

[Boydy]

This is the issue and this is why rates should have risen earlier no it wouldn't have controlled all of the inflation but it would have had an impact on inflation whereas it's now 10% it might only have been 6/7% still not great but not as bad as it is and therefore it's then less likely to become embedded in the economy.
How would have rates being higher earlier have controlled some of the inflation (reducing it to say 6/7%)? It wouldn't have stopped energy prices rising.

[Ben]

Sure, most of the inflation is supply side influenced, but not all. People still went spending mad in the past couple of years and savings incentives would have put a cap on that a little bit.

Now we've literally got zero tools at our disposable to juice the economy out of recession.

[Lewis]

Inflation was already 5.5% and rising last December because of all the pandemic spending. One school of thought is that the bollocks 2010s growth was in part due to low rates keeping lots of worthless businesses alive and contributing to our productivity crisis, so maybe these rises will lead to a long overdue purge of a few of those.

[Boydy]

Was that really because of the pandemic spending or was it because of global supply chains being fucked by the pandemic? Second hand cars are still stupidly expensive, for example.

Also, supposedly "worthless" businesses going bust isn't going to raise productivity as it'll increase unemployment and reduce the cost of labour so there'll be less incentive for businesses to invest in technology and stuff that would raise productivity when they can just hire cheap extra staff instead. You were arguing this point the other day when it came to bashing immigration.

[Lewis]

Temporarily, and then things get re-allocated. That's what used to happen in recessions, but cheap money kept everything on life support for fifteen years.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I assumed this was why China carry on doing mass lockdowns and closing ports, to give us the inflationary heebie jeebies.

No danger of unemployment just at the moment.

[Boydy]

Also, about inflation already being at 5.5% in December 2021.

June 2021:
BBC News - Petrol prices at highest in two years, says RAC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57336030

October 2021:
BBC News - Petrol prices hit record high, says RAC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59034854

December 2021:
BBC News - Inflation hits 10-year high as energy, fuel and clothing costs jump
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59663947


Higher transport and energy costs drove the rise, which was above forecasts of a 4.7% increase, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.

[Lewis]

It's like the currency was massively and quickly devalued for something.

[Don]

Mick Lynch and his lot can go fuck themselves. I was looking forward to a long week of WFH next week ffs.

[Lewis]

Mick Lynch supports the INVASION so forget him.

[Ben]

I've just noticed Gav is back in the Cabinet. How the fuck does he do it?

And he's gone. Not even two weeks.

That's three times now. Once for incompetence, once for pretty much treason and now once for bullying. Yet he somehow got a knighthood amongst all that.

[niko_cee]

Imagine being bullied by Gavin Williamson.

You'd just laugh.

Possibly even worse than being bullied by John Bercow.

Mark Francois using 'racial slurs' in Parliament as well.

Labour need to covertly fund some sort of grass roots Le Pen style movement to fracture the right and then in five years or so we can have our very own Giorgia Meloni [or was that Truss?].

[Jimmy Floyd]

He's one of those people who squeezes the udders so hard over a period of time that insiders become convinced he's a 'useful operator' or whatever, while outsiders all scratch their heads. The Grayling Problem.

[7om]

I can’t believe he has a knighthood. If ever there was an argument for abolishment of the monarchy then this is surely it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Labour need to covertly fund some sort of grass roots Le Pen style movement to fracture the right and then in five years or so we can have our very own Giorgia Meloni [or was that Truss?].

If/when PR comes in there will be a right populist party to the right of the Tories reliably polling 10-15% every time and holding the balance of power. Unintended consequences bonanza.

FPTP is our last line of defence against the nutjob Christmas specials that run riot across European politics.

[Lewis]

I work with somebody who is ITK about working with Gavin Williamson, and, as well as being a bit of a low level cretin, he's apparently got a really weird sense of humour. Some people like him for this, and think he's generally quite good to work with, and others, like this 'senior civil servant', are seemingly still bealing about it years down the line. You win some, you lose some.

[Lofty]

Who's the biggest fraud knight, Williamson or Pickles?

[niko_cee]

There can't be a bigger fraud Knight going than [Sir] Gavin. Does Philip Green still have his? At least he did something to get it.

[Ben]

It’s all downhill for Rishi at PMQs since his first half decent showing. He’s referencing Corbyn every week now like it’s 2016.

[Ben]

Just realised Hunt was announcing his new measures today. Quite a fan of the lowering of the top tax rate threshold but not raising the personal allowance is a bit of a cunt's trick.

10% extra tax on energy firms seems good on the surface but our bills are going up again even though gas wholesale costs are way down (like >60% on August prices) so we're still getting tanned for that racket.

[Lofty]

Taxing electric vehicles :D

[Yevrah]

To be fair, I've got a hybrid and it's a massive tax loophole as it stands.

[Ben]

Taxing electric vehicles :D

Didn't see that. It was only a matter of time really. They'll just start bumping up the fuel duty again when oil stabilises and convert people that way but also make more money from it.

[Lewis]

They will have to replace fuel duty eventually, so we're either getting road pricing, Nordic-style punitive registration taxes (best option), or just piling it all into general taxation.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They should just toll the motorways and be done with it. Really easy to do now with tech.

[Yevrah]

So this cop deal… Have I read it right that all they’ve agreed is a fund to help poor countries fucked by climate change and not, you know, a deal to actually prevent, or at least mitigate to some degree, further damage?

If so, it’s chancing of a level that would make Sven blush.

[Ben]

I think so. Basically a tax on carrying on as normal.

[Spikey M]

It's completely pointless. Each country will do as they please regardless.

I saw the other day that New Zealand promised to go xarbon neutral by 2020 back in the early 2000's. Once it became clear that it would cost more than they spend on health, schools and welfare all put together they bottled it and bumped it to 2050.

That's what is going to happen in most countries.

Then there's China who just don't care and continue to build coal power stations and the septics, that are so polarised politically that they can't plan anything that extends beyond the next election because it will just be reversed anyway.

[Yevrah]

I remember when I got jumped on for saying the efforts to reduce emissions were an absolute waste of time as it would never happen anywhere enough and other solutions need to be focused on. Predictably correct then.

[Kikó]

Reducing emissions is the only practical thing that can be done unless they actually are able to do carbon removal at scale (which they can't). I'm not sure what the waste of time is, making it the objective? Or even discussing it?

[Spikey M]

Reducing emissions is the only practical thing that can be done unless they actually are able to do carbon removal at scale (which they can't). I'm not sure what the waste of time is, making it the objective? Or even discussing it?

Expecting it to happen to a timetable set by a bunch of career politicians that barely know what they are talking about.

Green energy will be adopted as and when it becomes better / cheaper than traditional energy. That will be driven by scientific development and business delivery.

All our mate Rishi has to do is avoid doing stupid things to hinder progress, like taking away the tax exempt status of Electric Cars...

[Kikó]

I'm sure Pepe will correct me but the biggest challenge for renewable (other than lobbying by people like Foe) is the storage and investment into the grid. It's cheaper than traditional energy to build and install.

[Spikey M]

If that's the case then I'm sure it's being worked on. Politicians should make it as easy as possible with grants and tax perks, but otherwise stay out of it.

[Yevrah]

Reducing emissions is the only practical thing that can be done unless they actually are able to do carbon removal at scale (which they can't). I'm not sure what the waste of time is, making it the objective? Or even discussing it?

Making it the objective is. If 27 cops are anything to go by, it’s clearly not going to happen. We need another solution.

Maybe when Musk has finished railing Twitter he can have a go.

[Lewis]

Aren't those 'solar panels are cheaper than gas' claims based on the panels having maximum output at all times, which obviously doesn't happen? Plus good luck scrounging up all of the copper, nickel, etc. required. Not to mention massive land requirements. Nuclear or bust.

[Yevrah]

I should add, “finding another solution” assumes we inexplicably continue to ignore the one we’ve had for decades in nuclear.

[Giggles]

I think so. Basically a tax on carrying on as normal.

Never saw anything like that coming.

[Giggles]

We’ll do whatever makes rich people richer, which is exactly the point of all this.

[niko_cee]

Meanwhile, in Sturgeon's Brave New Scotland (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63659754).

:harold:

[Shindig]

I can't imagine that would have much of an impact. They'll already be going private.

[Lofty]

Exactly, if you're a millionaire and you think you have cancer you aren't waiting around to find out with the great unwashed.

[Ben]

Funnily enough I've got Bupa with work; I haven't had to use them personally thankfully but a lot of people have said how they either went NHS because it was quicker (:cab:) or Bupa plain punted them to NHS for whatever their problem was.

[randomlegend]

I can't imagine that would have much of an impact. They'll already be going private.

There's a fair amount of stuff which simply isn't available privately, such as A and E care for serious emergencies. I don't believe all cancer care is available privately either.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I used to think that those cars that go around labelled 'Private Ambulance' were to take the upper crust to specially prepared emergency rooms. More's the pity.

[Yevrah]

There's a fair amount of stuff which simply isn't available privately, such as A and E care for serious emergencies. I don't believe all cancer care is available privately either.

Yeah, my boss had cancer last year and while he could afford to go private he seemed to do a fair bit of flitting between that and NHS stuff.

[niko_cee]

Aren't private hospitals more for run of the mill stuff like basic orthopedic surgery and childbirth? As soon as anything goes remotely wrong, or is in anyway difficult or niche, it's off to the place with actual facilities to deal with actual problems [ie the nearest NHS hospital]?

[Ben]

Aren't private hospitals more for run of the mill stuff like basic orthopedic surgery and childbirth? As soon as anything goes remotely wrong, or is in anyway difficult or niche, it's off to the place with actual facilities to deal with actual problems [ie the nearest NHS hospital]?

That’s strange, it’s not like capitalism to let socialism pick up the pieces.

[randomlegend]

I honestly think anyone who gives birth at a private hospital (or at home) is deranged.

[Lofty]

My dad's mrs wanted to give birth to Jem Starship in some kind of Welsh natural spring she had found but fortunately her 14 hour labour ended up taking place entirely in a major London hospital. Originally they wanted dolphins present as they can imbue newborns with magical powers, apparently.

[Shindig]

I wouldn't want to put dolphins through that.

[niko_cee]

No unilaterally declared indyref2 for Wee Jimmy Krankie.

:harold:

Shock horror.