UK General Election 2017 - 8 June

[phonics]

All sides are taking this very well

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"We respect the democratic process so much we're going to parachute in a bloke who's literally never won an election. It's the only way to restore faith in democracy!

Meanwhile, Boris is showing his Churchillian leadership style by... hiding in his flat?

[Yevrah]

Davis resigning just seals this as an uber-shambles.

[phonics]

Boris has emerged from his flat to tell everyone that he too is fleeing the sinking ship. Such bravery from the big man.

Every sitting member of government should be put in a cannon and fired into the sun.

[Spikey M]

We’re going to end up with another election.

[phonics]

We’re going to end up with another election.

They want the World Cup win to have as successful a legacy on the country as the Olympics did clearly.

[Magic]

:lol:

[Jimmy Floyd]

They're both twats. Remain is now back on the cards.

[phonics]

Labour were brought in to be briefed on the Brexit White Paper and they can't get the projector working.

The word Omnishambles is almost too kind to this government.

[Lewis]

Now we're talking. Gove must be livid that he was the first one over the top.

[Henry]

If I have it right, the British Cabinet have agreed between themselves what their negotiating position should be. At this stage.

Oh, wait. They haven't even done that. This is the kind of thing that should have been worked out before the fucking vote, never mind the negotiations.

May's proposals, if they survive - will undoubtedly be softened even further once the EU start picking them apart. We'll end up with the UK outside of the decision-making but following all of the rules.

Corbyn PM by Christmas. :drool:

[Lewis]

My thinking all along was that between the European Union refusing to concede anything (that is not a criticism in itself - they will obviously put the 'project' over sensible trading arrangements, hence leaving), and the magical ability of the British government (whoever is in charge) to fuck literally everything up, we would end up with NO DEAL overall but with some reciprocal shit guaranteeing each others foreigners' rights and whatever keeps the planes in the air. That being the actual ideal status aside, where I appear to have gone wrong is in not contemplating this level of cowardice and inactivity, and not realising that Theresa May is Gordon Brown without the intelligence.

[Spikey M]

Or the looks.

[niko_cee]

How do you collectively sign off on something (no matter how stupid) and then resign a few days later? Don't you just resign when the thing you don't like is being presented?

In the event of a leadership challenge does May remain, ahem, as the continuity remain candidate, or do they put another one up, Spreadsheet Phil perhaps? Maybe Chukka should run for leadership of the conservative party.

[Jimmy Floyd]

She has to get voted out first, Maggie-style. If that happens then I imagine Sajid Javid will go up against some throbbing isolationist idiot.

[Yevrah]

I fucking knew Brexit could happen (the vote), but it wouldn't actually happen (the reality).

I've missed my chance to be a rich man here gents, fucking twice over.

[niko_cee]

She has to get voted out first, Maggie-style. If that happens then I imagine Sajid Javid will go up against some throbbing isolationist idiot.

How did it work with Major and Redwood?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Major resigned as leader (but carried on as PM) to trigger the leadership election, then stood again and won.

[Lewis]

The infamous 'Tory Right' are usually correct about everything (Europe especially), and I feel as though my cushy civil service position insulates me from the country falling to pieces, so the inevitable shithouse stitch-up 'deal' that the government and Labour cook up will be worth it if the Conservative Party can flush all of its tossers out whilst Jezza gets to work trashing the gaff.

[Henry]

Boris's resignation letter is a thing of beauty. Elegant, true and utterly delusional.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The infamous 'Tory Right' are usually correct about everything (Europe especially), and I feel as though my cushy civil service position insulates me from the country falling to pieces, so the inevitable shithouse stitch-up 'deal' that the government and Labour cook up will be worth it if the Conservative Party can flush all of its tossers out whilst Jezza gets to work trashing the gaff.

You do realise we're not leaving if they go full 90s on this?

[Lewis]

Maybe not now, but these twats are playing with fire if they think they can just sludge us back into everything.

[phonics]

Jeremy Hunt to Foreign Secretary was just the punchline today needed.

[Giggles]

I don't really know much about it all but lol.

1016445466915958784

[phonics]

Trump strayed from the subject of politics to ruminate about the use of the word "England."

"You don't hear the word 'England' as much as you should. I miss the name England," he said.


"I think England is a beautiful name. And you don't hear it very much anymore. But (the football team at the World Cup is) playing as 'England.' That's very interesting. That's good," Trump said

What a fucking moron.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why are people acting surprised that Tronald is just as much of an idiot in Berkshire as he is in Brooklyn?

[phonics]

Are they? Also he'd never be in Brooklyn, too many black people. He's Queens.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I needed an American location beginning with B. Nearly selected Boise.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

There was a protest here in Hitchin today by about 15 women.

I drove past it at one stage and one of the women held a sign trying to get people to honk their horns. She was really miming the fuck out of it to try and get me to do it but no dice.

I agree with them (and others) but a car horn isn't exactly going to do much love.

Edit: 1017747583412981760

[Pepe]

What are people protesting exactly?

Lol at people in any other country giving a shit about Trump.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They think we shouldn't let him in the country because he is bad - or rather, famous and bad, as I didn't see them protesting Xi Jinping, Jacob Zuma et al.

We are OBSESSED with America in this country, I think because it's the only nation with a clearly greater cultural reach than us.

[Lewis]

I don't think 'we' generally are. The politics nerds are for various reasons (pro/anti, thinking having seen The West Wing makes you clever, etc.), but I think most people take it as they find it.

[bruhnaldo]

What are people protesting exactly?

Lol at people in any other country giving a shit about Trump.

They had interviews with some of the protesters on NPR and the one Brit said he was protesting because "He backed out of the climate deal, he backed out of the Iran deal, and he's just making the world a much more dangerous place"

Personally would've lead with "He's shaking the foundations of NATO by insinuating the United States would be better off to go it alone, taking over planned summits by world leaders and forcing the conversation to revolve around explaining to him why NATO is good for all of it's allies instead of tabling more important, already previously planned discussions among its allies."

But ya know "tHe ClImAte DeAl!" is probably a lot easier to deal with if someone asks a follow up question.

[Lewis]

He's right in what he says about NATO, and it needs America more than America needs it, so the European leaders giving it the big'un and/or rolling their eyes at him need to get with the program[me]. Even if he is gone in a few years, chances are the mooching days are over.

[Spikey M]

Is he even in the ‘Top 10 Political Cunts to visit the UK’ list?

[bruhnaldo]

He's right in what he says about NATO, and it needs America more than America needs it, so the European leaders giving it the big'un and/or rolling their eyes at him need to get with the program[me]. Even if he is gone in a few years, chances are the mooching days are over.

If I'm honest I am totally behind the entire "everyone should pay their fair share" bit that he's running :shrugs:

At any rate, the same radio program told me that while several world leaders had apparently previously agreed to up their payment to NATO none of them actually had done so as of yet. I'm really interested to see how it all plays out. If it means less tax-dollars being spent in favor of other countries upping their portion certainly that would be a big win for us/him I'd imagine.

[phonics]

If I'm honest I am totally behind the entire "everyone should pay their fair share" bit that he's running :shrugs:

At any rate, the same radio program told me that while several world leaders had apparently previously agreed to up their payment to NATO none of them actually had done so as of yet. I'm really interested to see how it all plays out. If it means less tax-dollars being spent in favor of other countries upping their portion certainly that would be a big win for us/him I'd imagine.


except you won't cut your defense budget ever and actually increased it this time around.

[niko_cee]

Sorry to break it to you, but NATO countries pulling their weight isn't going to mean the US spends less on defence. Didn't they just raise the budget by $60bn for lols? That's probably more than most countries spend entirely.

[mikem]

Well, since you are all in agreement with Trump .... IÂ’ll do my bit and accept 4% of your annual salaries on behalf of the US. That is the mechanism he is proposing (at least to the domestic audience). Which heÂ’s packaged along with us needing to up our military spending by 18% because we donÂ’t take care of our military.

Which essentially is the problem with Trump. Everyone tries to ignore the 90% of pure gibberish to focus on the 10% they align with. You do it long enough and you are forced to start defending having 4 year olds pleading their case for asylum because they are legally competent. It is never worth it in the end.

[bruhnaldo]

I mean for example, I paid $10/mo for Apple Music before I realized I was eligible for a student discount. Now I pay $5. I still spend that other $5 each month, but I spend it on something else because it's money I now have to spend on something else.

Do I really notice the fact I have that extra $5? Not really. But it's a positive to my own personal budget. If I had to start paying $10 again I would view that as a negative, though in the grand scheme it probably doesn't really matter.

That's why I don't really see how getting other people to pay their fair share into NATO can be construed as a negative or "not a win" as presented in this context.

Sure, we'll blow the money on other shit, but it's all politics anyways. A "win" is still a win with the voter base.

At any rate, if it means we have to throw less money into the NATO pot and more money into our own interests, that's fine in and of itself.... Reckless spending otherwise is an entirely separate argument in my estimation.

[Pepe]

Once you start talking about 'political wins' there is no salvation.

[bruhnaldo]

I’ll do my bit and accept 4% of your annual salaries on behalf of the US.

I didn't realize he was proposing everyone adopt a "NATO tax"? I don't see a NATO tax on my paycheck currently but we're apparently still paying the "4% of GDP" or whatever the fuck that he's asking everyone else to pay.

[bruhnaldo]

Once you start talking about 'political wins' there is no salvation.

I'm talking for the sense of him. It's a win for him to be able to come to America and tell everyone how great he is because he got NATO to pay up their (apparently already) agreed share (that they hadn't started paying yet).

So sure, we increase defense spending by x%, but that % "comes from money we saved!" whether that's true or not.

[Boydy]

Is NATO even really relevant any more?

[Pepe]

Only if you're looking for some wins.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Is NATO even really relevant any more?

Are you a Russian bot?

[phonics]

I do love the whole 'Do we really need the things we created to stop us going to war with each other every 20 years' conversations. We live in the most peaceful time in the entirety of human history but is a few million quid to things we don't like really worth that?

The other problem being that we'd pretty much eradicate all our political issues if we just killed off 1/3rd of the population every few decades like we used to.

[Boydy]

I do love the whole 'Do we really need the things we created to stop us going to war with each other every 20 years' conversations. We live in the most peaceful time in the entirety of human history but is a few million quid to things we don't like really worth that?

The other problem being that we'd pretty much eradicate all our political issues if we just killed off 1/3rd of the population every few decades like we used to.

NATO wasn't created to stop us going to war with each other. It was created to stop the spread of communism.

The EU is much more worthwhile than NATO.

[Boydy]

Are you a Russian bot?

нет

[Lewis]

NATO is an anachronism, and we should have threatened to leave it to spook the European Union.

[phonics]

The Lib Dems (4 seats) not turning up to defeat a Brexiteer amendment won by 4 votes sums them up. Absolutely useless set of human beings.

[Yevrah]

What Tim Farron was doing instead beggars belief.

[phonics]

Beyond satire.

[Lewis]

I've enjoyed tracking the Vote Leave live-shrieking at work. It's mad how that Sarah Wollaston was leave until two weeks before the vote, and now, having moaned about it ever since, she wants the thing voided. If you were cynical you would think that somebody had put her up to it originally (if you were cynical, that is).

[phonics]

Boris is doing a 'resignation speech' after PMQs. You resigned 2 weeks ago you fat melt. Fuck off.

[Boydy]

John Woodcock's resigned from the Labour party to dodge a sexual harrassment investigation.

[Lewis]

His bird is Isabel Hardman. You wot mate.

[Boydy]

It's any potential Woodcock-Hardman children I feel sorry for.

[Lewis]

The point was how has he managed that. I know she writes a lot about being mentally ill, but come on love.

[Boydy]

I know what the point was, I just wanted to make the shit joke about their double-barrelled penis-named children.

I don't know how he managed it. Maybe he has a massive wang like his name suggests.

[bruhnaldo]

Having first searched Isabel and then Johnny Hardcock (:D) I'm just sat here stunned.

[mikem]

Once you start talking about 'political wins' there is no salvation.

This - a million times this. Compromise is one thing but this just shows you are a bad faith actor and can not be trusted.

[Lewis]

I figured this Darren Grimes was a bit of a rube, but the seethe he's drawing out of various people on a daily basis is tear to the stuff. Also, lol at the Chequers bullshit being killed stone dead just now.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Sometimes I get sucked into 'maybe a second referendum wouldn't be so bad', and then Carole Cadwalladr tweets again.

[Lewis]

I only see the choice stuff because for some reason I still follow the increasingly deranged Nick Cohen. It's the tunnel vision that makes me lol. Yes, the government spent nine mill... WHO DOES GRIMES WORK FOR?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I get it all retweeted in by ex cricketers and football journalists, and also because for some reason I follow Sir Michael White.

In twenty years they'll be like that small mob of journos who still think Tony Blair is great.

[Lewis]

One policy I would recommend is immediately unfollowing anyone who ever subjects you to James O'Brien. JAMES O'BRIEN DESTROYS BREXIT CALLER. And then it's him, with that intense cunt look on his face, 'just wondering' how somebody who believes in national sovereignty can eat imported fruit.

[Shindig]

I mean, we could just stay in a bungled state of negotiations forever. That's as good as staying put, right? RIGHT!?

[Boydy]

I only see the choice stuff because for some reason I still follow the increasingly deranged Nick Cohen. It's the tunnel vision that makes me lol. Yes, the government spent nine mill... WHO DOES GRIMES WORK FOR?

Elon Musk now, I think.

[randomlegend]

Jeremy Hunt calling his own wife Japanese to the Chinese when she's Chinese. He really is extraordinarily retarded.

[Lewis]

Misspeaking after having a conversation in your fluent Japanese isn't the most compelling evidence for someone being a retard.

[Boydy]

Saw that earlier. :D

[randomlegend]

Misspeaking after having a conversation in your fluent Japanese isn't the most compelling evidence for someone being a retard.

It's hardly the first thing he's done. Also, if it was Corbyn you'd be lolling him out the door.

[Spikey M]

Misspeaking after having a conversation in your fluent Japanese isn't the most compelling evidence for someone being a retard.

How about believing in magic water?

[Lewis]

There is plenty of evidence of him being a twat, but when you've got David Lammy of all people jumping on this as proof of him being a thicko then you all need to wind it in.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Someone I know who is a Labour supporter met David Lammy recently, and described him as 'filled with hate'. I did lol.

[Lewis]

The second referendum people seem to be a bit perky at the minute. Deadly Dom wrote the other day about Vote Leave II becoming a movement/party and smashing everything to bits after another victory, which would obviously be amazing, but I don't think it would even need to win. If another vote went 60/40 to remain that would still leave you with fourteen million(?) people who would be well up for it, and that kills the Conservative Party at the very least.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I now think there should be a second ref with preferential voting with the options being:

Deal
No Deal
Remain

A Remain victory would lead to quite a few riots and probably a national government for a bit (Remain people still don't understand that most Leave voters don't have anything to lose), and a No Deal victory would probably lead to a military coup. I'd vote for Deal... not sure about my second pref.

[niko_cee]

Would that be an actual deal, or a mythical one? The existence of the choice probably mitigates against the existence of the thing.

[Lewis]

I would vote NO DEAL, and subsequently vote for the maddest anti-Europe freak on the ballot for the rest of my life.

[niko_cee]

I was just reading some trash no deal doomsday article about something Amber Rudd wrote and it had this little gem in it:


Under the plans, ministers are considering drafting the army in to help deliver supplies to hard-to-reach areas outside of the southeast of England, according to The Sunday Times.

:D

Someone's taking the piss. Even better if it's some clickbait bot doing it.

[Lewis]

Hard-to-reach areas, like rail hubs and sea ports, and where actual food and things are produced.

[Kikó]

It's still all project fear. The EU need us more than we need them. Blue passports.

[Spikey M]

No Surrender. No Surrender.

[Lewis]

lol at Boris Johnson sitting at home lolling to himself as all the twats send his stock soaring. Good to see Sayeeda Warsi is still a thing as well. Surely David Cameron could have just hired a brown woman to have his photograph taken next to rather than committing the taxpayer - sorry, us taxpayers - to providing her with relevance for the rest of her life.

[Yevrah]

Anyone with any sense should be able to see his stock is through the floor and he has nowhere near enough substance to land anything.

He had a chance to step-up and prove otherwise and he blew it.

[Lewis]

True, but he wins by default if everyone else is shit and/or tied to Theresa May.

[Kikó]

Shame that empty vessel is given such a platform. Blithering, thick twat.

[Shindig]

Boris completely fucked his stock over Brexit. Ran in opposition to put Dave under a bit of pressure only for the vote to come out in 'his favour'. You don't come back from looking sheepish on the plinth during your victory speech.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If he was any good he would have seized the baton after the vote and run with it, he had every opportunity to be the sole voice of a clear, positive vision for Brexit. As it was, he was a useless dithering twat, Gove realised it and suicide bombed him.

[phonics]

There's probably been several people down the years that have thought 'Make him PM and I can get anything I want' in the same way the charlatans that back Trump (Pence, Ryan, the Federalist Society etc.) are only using him to advance their own agenda because they know he has absolutely no policy interests outside of 'more racism, less regulation'. Which is why you have so many pro-Boris media contacts. The problem is Boris is half smart enough to ask 'why?' occasionally which makes him useless as a vessel. So then you need him to be a proper actual leader but he could never face not being popular which is why he bottled the leadership election the moment he realised he'd have 1/3rd of the party hating him even though he would have won at a canter.

He is in Politics for the status, not the power. So now you get stupid dog whistle Boris, trying to build his credibility back up. I am as liberal as they come and have massive issues with the Burqa and it's various forms, but I don't go out in public saying it's like talking to a letterbox. It's simply playing to a crowd.

I think Gove's a massive prick and I hate him with every fibre, I also think the country would be in a far more stable position if he'd just gone forward with it. Corbyn is still trying to get his own party to like him what feels like half a decade later while Theresa May has spent 2 years of post-Article 50 negotiations with a stab proof vest on and still letting blood. The entire Western political establishment is an absolute joke, I'd rather we were run by the civil service at this point and they can't even get a basic infrastructure contract right.

I think all the commies have terrible ideas but I'd almost take it, at least it's honest incompetence.

[Lewis]

The way Guido has shown this stuff, and the people driving it, up ought to entitle him to some public service funding.

[Lewis]

I lolled out loud at work reading Rod Liddle on Jezza (https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/jeremy-corbyn-is-either-deeply-sinister-or-a-total-idiot/) (the computers are so slow you can stop the page loading before the paywall stuff comes up):


By the time you read this it will probably emerge that he was caught on CCTV in 2014 putting a brick through a synagogue window and running away screaming ‘Intifada!’ Excuse no. 1: ‘It wasn’t me. This is fake news!’ Excuse no. 2: ‘I did put the brick through the window, in order to check that the glass was secure from possible attack by anti-Semites.’

I've been saying it for ages. He's just laughably thick, and it ought to have been obvious to anyone listening to him attempting to discuss anything remotely complex. Good to see it becoming an official party line though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This stuff is all bubble rubbish unfortunately. No one cares about anti-Semitism, or indeed any wider world issue, it's all about money in their pocket and services in their area. If the Tories don't sort that they're in trouble.

[Lewis]

Jews do, but there aren't many of those.

As for the Conservative Party, housing is the most obvious sign of its intellectual and moral (and political) failures, so I think it needs burning to the ground again. Unfortunately, when it has previously needed torching its demise was helped along by the Great British Public having been offered something approaching a respectable alternative (hindsight aside). Without one you can see it staggering on in its current state for another few years.

[phonics]

Being a remainer is now a psychological issue.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlB4d58X4AEs-gl.jpg:large

[Lewis]

The hashtag username freaks on Twitter definitely fall into that. I don't think they mean all sixteen million who voted for it.

[John]

1034886088547098624

:lol:

[Spikey M]

His eyebrows have been stuck on wrong.

[Shindig]

"The Scottish government confirms they had a complaint in January."

So, they've had a complaint. When it arrives should be immaterial. Also, top tie.

[niko_cee]

I think Barnier rolling out the EU-Korea trade deal talk is both quite lol, and quite interesting.

I wonder how many of the EU's trade partners consider the deals signed with the UK within the bloc to be substantially the same without it in? In the example of Korea, the UK is the biggest single European receipient of Korean Exports and they have a $1.7bn trade surplus with us. Next in line are Germany (but with a $12bn trade deficit) the Dutch, Italians and French, all who also run trade surpluses with Korea. You can see why the EU is keen to keep that deal afloat.

I wonder, as an export economy, who the Koreans view as a more important trade partner?

[Yevrah]

By now we can't be a million miles away from a face saving agreement that to all intents and purposes changes nothing, can we?

[niko_cee]

That or the Article 50 deadline magically gets extended to infinity, to the same end.

[phonics]

I've woken up to the news that Boris Johnson is getting divorced for shagging around again. My only question is, even if it was to raise your own profile, would shagging Boris Johnson ever be worth it?

[Shindig]

I dunno, May didn't get much from fucking him.

[Lewis]

lol at how much coverage the Swedish election is getting, as if literally anybody in this country cares.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've noticed that they LOVE elections where there's a chance/threat of the far right getting in, and all media interest completely disappears when that doesn't happen.

[Giggles]

The hardest of brexits is coming. Get that border up :drool:

[Lewis]

Was all of the information about Theresa May being a baffling, useless individual available to me two years ago? I have the feeling that, like people only finding out that Gordon Brown was a printer-throwing freak once it was too late, that it wasn't.

[Spikey M]

Won’t be able to say that with PM Corbz.

[Lewis]

What because the internet will have collapsed?

[Disco]

Nationalised more like.

[Lewis]

Exactly.

[Boydy]

Was all of the information about Theresa May being a baffling, useless individual available to me two years ago? I have the feeling that, like people only finding out that Gordon Brown was a printer-throwing freak once it was too late, that it wasn't.

Yeah but there was nobody else.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There still isn't either. The alternative to her is the battle bus of small cocked men like Boris, IDS and Bernard Jenkin driving into town and fucking everything up.

[Lewis]

Between the nobodies making not-so-subtle noises about 'generational change', everybody piling into Boris Johnson, and the inevitable crack at it from some absolute whopper like Chris Grayling or Matthew 'Matt Hancock' Hancock, the next leadership contest will be amazing.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Someone needs to emerge telling both the wet fringe and the retard fringe to fuck off. Javid seems the best option to me, but 'the membership' probably aren't ready for an Asian.

[Lewis]

I would have agreed at one point, but whoever doesn't resign from the government sooner rather than later is going down permanently with the good ship Chequers, so that rules him out.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We should be doing Norway really, but apparently anything that makes Bernard Jenkin cry is off the table.

[Lewis]

You would definitely vote remain in the People's Vote.

[niko_cee]

Jeremy Hunt is going to end up as PM. No one will know how it happened, but it will.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You would definitely vote remain in the People's Vote.

I'd think about it depending on the prevailing climate. I thought about it in the proper one.

My main concern about Remaining now (regardless of method) is that it would establish a precedent that the clever ruling class are always right and that's basically the blueprint for dictatorship. For that reason I'm still up for leaving.

[Spikey M]

It would also reaffirm that the Governmont can get out of doing something by purposefully fucking it up.

[Lewis]

Speaking of the clever ruling class:

1043490557098635264

Tenner sez her parents were cousins.

[Disco]

The only thing more amusing than the seethe after the first one would be the reaction to a second vote going the same way.

[niko_cee]

Aye. The best bet for Remain, barring a chequers-esque fudge, is to simply refuse to do it (in Parliament). Yes, you still have to reap the whirlwind of a populist Rees-Mogg/Bojo/UKIP insurrection whenever you next have an election, but you'd get that with a second referundum anyway, and at least you remove the risk of losing the second one, which would be beyond careless, but quite possible.

I'm not really sure where the Parliament is against Brexit stuff comes from though. Didn't both major parties contest the last election with manifesto pledges to give effect to the referendum result?

[Jimmy Floyd]

They all assumed Remain would win (Cameron took this assumption right up to polling day). A lot of the same mongs got caught out by Corbyn.

[Yevrah]

I'm not sure a second vote would go the same way now. Not sure at all.

[niko_cee]

Yes, but are you sure it wouldn't?

It seems a high risk strategy for a potentially even worse result. You're fucking off 'democracy!' anyway, so may as well do it for some sort of gain/benefit.

[Yevrah]

Oh that comment wasn't linked to yours specifically, just that I think the absolute shambles this has turned into would sway a lot of people who didn't vote before into voting remain now and a lot of people who voted leave for reasons of principle to do the same.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What if the losers of the second vote ask for a People's, People's Vote?

[Yevrah]

What if the losers of the second vote ask for a People's, People's Vote?

Who cares?

Whatever you think of the EU, there's now a compelling argument to say that we'd be better off in it. Not because we actually should be better off, but because the people running the country clearly haven't a clue what they're doing.

[niko_cee]

Re-votes in every marginal constituency, forever, until the 'right' result is achieved.

That sounds quite Orwellian.

[Yevrah]

Re-votes in every marginal constituency, forever, until the 'right' result is achieved.

That sounds quite Orwellian.

It's nothing to do with the 'right' result, as the 'right' result has clearly already happened (in that we voted and there was a result), but more that I think there'd be an air of pragmatism from a lot of people now.

[Lewis]

That we seem incapable of extracting ourselves from the European Union is more of an argument for blowing up every national institution than it is letting Belgium run them.

[Yevrah]

That we seem incapable of extracting ourselves from the European Union is more of an argument for blowing up every national institution than it is letting Belgium run them.

Which is one approach, but a much more likely one would be to just leave things as they are, because if we can't do it at all, let alone properly, then what's the point?

[Lewis]

Why have any elections at all in that case.

[niko_cee]

Can't you apply the same logic to pretty much anything the government turns it's hand to? What's the point in trying to change anything, ever? It's always a massive pain in the arse met with obstructiveness at every turn. Health, education, transport, leaving a trade bloc. Everything.

[Disco]

Politicians are rubbish is hardly a revelation, I remain unconvinced that there will be much of a difference should we leave.

[Yevrah]

You can't equate a bog standard election or running a national industry with this. The former are things that we do all the time and are just frigged at round the edges, this is much much bigger.

And I'm not saying we should do that, just that I think it's increasingly more likely to happen, particularly if there were a second vote.

[Boydy]

How would everyone here vote if there was a second referendum? Would anyone change their mind?

[Kikó]

Nope. Still remain

[Spikey M]

Politicians are rubbish is hardly a revelation, I remain unconvinced that there will be much of a difference should we leave.

People will lose jobs in certain areas, but employment will increase in others. The currency will devalue, and prices will go up. But exporters will probably do better off the back of that.

It will be much of muchness. Some will be worse off, some better off.

Ultimately, we need to just get on with Leaving. There will be no deal whilst both sides are posturing, but after the fact it will dawn on the likes of France, that their biggest Wine buying market drying up - because they’ve lost their pricing advantage over California et al - is not worth their pride. Surrender monkeys.

[Spikey M]

How would everyone here vote if there was a second referendum? Would anyone change their mind?

I’d still vote remain, but ultimately I’m really not that arsed.

[Kikó]

People will lose jobs in certain areas, but employment will increase in others. The currency will devalue, and prices will go up. But exporters will probably do better off the back of that.

It will be much of muchness. Some will be worse off, some better off.

Ultimately, we need to just get on with Leaving. There will be no deal whilst both sides are posturing, but after the fact it will dawn on the likes of France, that their biggest Wine buying market drying up - because they’ve lost their pricing advantage over California et al - is not worth their pride. Surrender monkeys.

The Chinese/Asians are big buyers of wine these days and the US.

There will of course be an impact, it's naive to think that it will just carry on the same.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The EU issue was always a proxy for a battle between 'those who do well out of the status quo' versus 'those being failed by the status quo' and that remains the case. The extremists on each side who actually care about the EU are in a very small minority.

The people who do well out of the status quo lost, which is very rare in democracy and is what makes Brexit such an upheaval.

[Kikó]

Yeah it just means the middle class can get poorer and join the rest in the shit. While the wealthier get European residency.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Exactly. Those people have something to lose, so no wonder their knickers are in a twist. 'The rest' have nothing to lose, so why wouldn't you vote Leave?

[Kikó]

I get it. It's just misplaced blame and the thought that Europe is the reason jobs and lack of wealth is due to the EU and not because the country has been mismanaged (unless you're in London).

[Spikey M]

Literally my only reason for voting remain is because I don’t want to need a visa when going on holiday. That’s the level of importance Brexit has to me.

[Lewis]

My clever theory, speaking as something of a nutter on the issue, is that quite a lot of people think that supranationalism and open borders are stupid shit ideas, and that the only reason people weren't previously as arsed about it all as they are now is that they were consistently and shamelessly lied to about the nature of the European Union for decades.

[Shindig]

Still remain for me. Purely for the money.

[phonics]

I voted remain because I thought it was a bad idea before but I'd vote remain this time safe in the knowledge that our political establishment is clearly not up to the job of getting it done anyway.

[Shindig]

That as well. Even the pro-leave guys shat themselves.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Labour conference has come around and there's already been a proposal to replace Google with a state-owned search engine. Love Labour conference, it's the absolute best.

[Lewis]

I would be interested to know what these cranks don't think the state should run. The state-subsidised 'public interest' journalists was another good one.

[Boydy]

I would be interested to know what these cranks don't think the state should run. The state-subsidised 'public interest' journalists was another good one.

Isn't that just the BBC?

[Lewis]

I suppose (close that down), but they seemed to be thinking more along the lines of taxpayers bailing out those Canary spastics.

[phonics]

1044153459447132160

Inspiring. Give it to the inanimate carbon rod.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I wonder when the Labour membership will realise they actually need to replace Mr Corbyn with a plausible leader. I genuinely think Angela Rayner would piss it.

[phonics]

He's setting up some woman I've never heard of to be his successor by installing her as deputy. I'm sure she's well balanced and totally normal.

[Lewis]

The various women on that wing of the party are some of the thickest thickos in public life.

[ItalAussie]

I wonder when the Labour membership will realise they actually need to replace Mr Corbyn with a plausible leader. I genuinely think Angela Rayner would piss it.

So I'm a lot more out of UK politics than I used to be, but I get the feeling that if Labour nominated someone competent, they'd destroy the next election. Fair?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Fair, but the lunatics have been running the asylum for long enough now that it may be structurally impossible for that to happen. The left hate the 'Blairites' just as much, if not more than they hate the Tories. Yet to win, they need the votes of all those people who voted for Tony but aren't all that sold on revolutionary Marxism.

We're experiencing an odd reversal similar to what happened in America decades ago whereby Labour have completely lost the white working class.

[Lewis]

Ed West was predicting the Americanization of British politics (one side for queers and minorities, the other for white people) for as long as I've known who he was, but, obviously not seeing all of the referendum/communism stuff, he thought it would be a gradual drift. Only Steve Hilton can save us now.

[niko_cee]

So I'm a lot more out of UK politics than I used to be, but I get the feeling that if Labour nominated someone competent, they'd destroy the next election. Fair?

Depends when the next election is.

If it happens before we leave the EU (I suppose before next year) and Labour have to have an actual position on the issue (rather than no to a deal, no to no deal) and the position is in "People's Vote" territory then good old Theresa might end up getting the Ukip swing murdering she thought she was going to get last time. But there are any number of factors against that happening.

The most lol thing I saw out of the conference today was some div going on about how Jez and co were out of touch with the young new membership of the party on this issue. It's as if they have no idea who he is.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I would say Jez and co are actually quite astute on that particular point, because by positioning yourself as Remain at this point all you're doing is alienating 52% of the electorate. The New Party tossers would do well to recognise this as well.

[Spikey M]

Yeah, having a position other than ‘They’re fucking this right up’ would be pretty bloody stupid.

- Back ‘remain’ and alienate the 52%. Most of which aren’t Labour voters already, but you may have been able to swing off the back of Tory uselessness.

- Back ‘Leave’ and haemorrhage your core vote.

Non-specific speeches and avoiding questions won the last election for Tezza. Seeing as nothing good has ever come from Corbz opening his mouth, he should be studying that blueprint.

[niko_cee]

Well yes, but I don't think you could contest an(other) election called on the basis of brexit without some sort of defined policy on the matter.

I assumed that was what the snap election murmuring from team Theresa (which must be her, her husband and that civil servant who apparently runs everything) was about. If you make 'no deal' a general election issue (ie if it is looming and very real) you can't really stand on the basis of "well, we'd get a better deal". Although, saying that, that's probably not as fanciful as half the other shit which would be getting promised, so maybe the UK needs a good dose of Corbynomics to make the pall of the 1970s seem less remote.

Enjoy your nationalised everything.

Not that we wouldn't be too.

[Lewis]

The People's Half, where all new threads and moderating decisions have to be run by the newly-created 'Internet Ombudsman', who has no online presence other than a Hatfield IP address.

[The Merse]

Labour conference has come around and there's already been a proposal to replace Google with a state-owned search engine. Love Labour conference, it's the absolute best.

Please tell me there's linkage...

[phonics]

If Keir Starmer got the leadership I might bother to re-register to vote.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Starmer is a horrible man.

He has also just made a huge political error.

[phonics]

Starmer is a horrible man.

He has also just made a huge political error.

I like how even after the conversation above you still think talking about the possibility of a remain vote counts as a political erorr.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That's exactly what was being said in the discussion above. The nonsense fudge is their best bet as it doesn't alienate anyone.

[phonics]

Yeah nothing that's happened over the last 2 years has left anyone else alienated. That's for sure.

People need to stop treating everyone below them like they're thick. They already see the fudge.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You are very out of touch. If we did the referendum again, even in a best case for Remain, there would be a 45% leave vote. That's a fuck of a lot of voters for a major party to ostracise, especially when a lot of them are in its traditional heartlands.

You can't read the mood in the UK via twitter.

[phonics]

But you pretend that every last % of that vote prioritizes leaving the EU over absolutely everything else which just simply isn't true. 'Look I'll live in a ditch with bread and water for supper as long as I got muh freedom' is Lewis and about 5 other people. Remain lost because there was absolutely no argument for it, just arguments against not being in it.

"We'll make your lives better and if we didn't have to spend the whole time over Michel Barniers barrel, it'd be a bit easier to do it" isn't a hard argument to make.

[Lewis]

I would agree with that in isolation, insofar as the so-called Labour heartlands would, in a straight choice, vote for them even if they promised to join the Euro and make it the law that you had to be bummed by at least one immigrant a year (hence why the Liberal Democrats putting it all on remain was a waste of time); but I also think that voiding a referendum would be your best bet to shatter those sort of assumptions.

[niko_cee]

Whilst I agree with that analysis, it is the same sort of thinking that has seen Labour all but wiped out in Scotland, where they were previously beyond dominant.

The danger (from the perspective of the witless intelligentsia) in a second referendum isn't that you lose it again (this time it splits 49 remain, 35 deal, 16 no deal which won't be the clusterfuck it logically should be) - it is that in 5 years some Trumpian figure rises and galvanises the downtrodden white vote into one cause and causes all manner of havoc.

To use the parlance of the times, you can't have your cake and eat it with regards to ignoring the outcome of the original referendum.

[phonics]

I come at it from my Mums side of the family that are as working class/Brexit as it gets.

From Erdington, my Uncle was in the TA and spent years needing a hip replacement (injured in Kosovo) and not getting it on the NHS, my Aunt is the definition of a single mother who married a bloke who walked out on her and her 2 kids (I later found out he was forcibly walked out by the police for selling heroin next to a school), one of those kids (younger than I am) had one child of every race before I'd turned 24.

The only thing they care about is subjects that begin with 'I don't mean to be racist bab but...' and end in 'There's too many Poles and everyone else who doesn't look like us'.

The only thing you can offer these people that isn't putting everyone who doesn't pass the smell test on a boat is prosperity. Outside of that you're just arguing the % that gets shipped out. Which leaves everyone unhappy.

The issue Niko/Lewis raises is the only thing, fail to deliver prosperity and you'll have the Brownshirts running the asylum not far after.

[Shindig]

"We can't enslave them but we can trap them here for life with our service industry and retail jobs."

How that for a pitch?

[Spikey M]

I do enjoy Phonics Anti-Brexit rage, from his ivory tower, in a hugely rich country, that isn’t even in the EU. Take it to Twitter you cunt.

[phonics]

I do enjoy Phonics Anti-Brexit rage, from his ivory tower, in a hugely rich country, that isn’t even in the EU. Take it to Twitter you cunt.

Switzerland is effectively in the EU. Far more aligned than Britain was pre-Brexit at least. But to put it in perspective our deal with the EU is still being negotiated despite negotiations starting in 78. So they just sign bilateral agreements agreeing with whatever the EU does.

[Henry]

I've changed my mind on how I'd vote.

I was conflicted before and convinced by the undemocratic scheming of the EU to suggest a LEAVE vote.

I've now decided that it should be REMAIN even if that means a second referendum, the idea of which I detest. I will admit that there are personal considerations because of my geographic location.

[phonics]

I was conflicted before and convinced by the undemocratic scheming of the EU to suggest a LEAVE vote.

I will take Lewis, Jimmy's and my racist Aunts points on the EU. Congratulations on having the worst vote leave reason possible.

[Spikey M]

You’re probably the best reason to leave going at the moment.

[Boydy]

I will take Lewis, Jimmy's and my racist Aunts points on the EU. Congratulations on having the worst vote leave reason possible.

I really don't understand your reasoning here.

[phonics]

You’re probably the best reason to leave going at the moment.

A kid that was forced to emigrate abroad (but within the same region like the ROI) for tax reasons, didn't do well at school and used the inbuilt advantages of growing up in that country/school system to out-earn 90% of the populace of the country he originated from?

Yeah, terrible example.

[phonics]

I really don't understand your reasoning here.

If your reason for leaving is 'How they treated Greece', you could sit comfortable in the fact that you'd never be treated like that because you're too important to them unless you left, in which case they'd treat you like they did Greece for daring to leave. By voting leave out of that belief, you've caused the situation you wanted to avoid.

[John]

I really don't understand your reasoning here.

You need an Enigma machine to understand what Phonics is bibbling about at the best of times, never mind on a subject he feels he can get smug about.

[John]

A kid that was forced to emigrate abroad (but within the same region like the ROI) for tax reasons, didn't do well at school and used the inbuilt advantages of growing up in that country/school system to out-earn 90% of the populace of the country he originated from?

Yeah, terrible example.

Aren't both your parents reasonably well to do and in positions of influence?

[phonics]

Aren't both your parents reasonably well to do and in positions of influence?

My Dad was a painter and decorator working on building sites his whole life.

My Mum was born to a Dad who was sold to a hotel as a baby for shillings and my Nan who was adopted, the family grew up in an orphanage that my Nan was a nurse at. My family on my mums side is from Erdington and I've already explained involves a member of the TA and an aunt who was married to a heroin dealer. She's literally the definition of the 'working class done good story' she worked her way up from Boots Makeup Girl to Vice-President of Beauty for P&G. I'm not sure how that would affect my views.

I went from being one of the best off people in my school to being one of the poorest when I moved here. I am at the lowest tier of well-off and understand that privilege and wouldn't throw away those possibilities for others. None of these things are the reason I'm pro-EU though.

[John]

My Dad was a painter and decorator working on building sites his whole life.

My Mum was born to a Dad who was sold to a hotel as a baby for shillings and my Nan who was adopted, the family grew up in an orphanage that my Nan was a nurse at. My family on my mums side is from Erdington and I've already explained involves a member of the TA and an aunt who was married to a heroin dealer. She's literally the definition of the 'working class done good story' she worked her way up from Boots Makeup Girl to Vice-President of Beauty for P&G. I'm not sure how that would affect my views.

I went from being one of the best off people in my school to being one of the poorest when I moved here. I am at the lowest tier of well-off and understand that privilege and wouldn't throw away those possibilities for others. None of these things are the reason I'm pro-EU though.

Right, so you're the son of a VP with a worldwide company that counts its revenue in the tens of billions. I'm sure it was the inbuilt benefits of the EU and those alone that helped you out.

I couldn't be less interested in your views, but that little biography you've offered up is about as disingenuous as anything ever posted here.

[phonics]

No I grew up the son of a woman that worked at Boots. When I moved she was a mid-tier sales person for Oil of Olay. Our house in the UK when we moved cost the same as Baz' did (factoring in living in Surrey not St Helens). That she retired as a VP by the time I'm 30 doesn't really affect my opinion.

Instead of demeaning the incredible achievements of my mother you could ask what my reason for being pro-EU is considering I said that my experience isn't the deciding factor.

[Boydy]

So you didn't go to the same fancy private school as Mert then?

[phonics]

So you didn't go to the same fancy private school as Mert then?

Part of the contract to move us out there was that the company paid for it. Same for my health insurance etc. They made more money by not paying taxes than the outlay of moving tens of thousands of people to Switzerland.

[Shindig]

Henry, when you say scheming, do you mean in general or specifically with the brexit negotiations? Or both?

[Boydy]

Oh, I see. You're a regular Oliver Twist then. Not sure how you've coped with such hardship.

[phonics]

Oh, I see. You're a regular Oliver Twist then. Not sure how you've coped with such hardship.


I am at the lowest tier of well-off and understand that privilege and wouldn't throw away those possibilities for others.

Jesus Christ. I'm not sure how much more clear I can be that I am infinitely grateful for everything that's been afforded me and the circumstances that gave me those opportunities and think they need to be available to all.

[Shindig]

Is the Oxbridge graduate digging in for a class war? :D

[phonics]

Is the Oxbridge graduate digging in for a class war? :D

Boydy earning his way into a good uni is nothing to hold against him in any argument of class warfare.

[John]

Jesus Christ. I'm not sure how much more clear I can be that I am infinitely grateful for everything that's been afforded me and the circumstances that gave me those opportunities and think they need to be available to all.

Yep, everyone should get free entry into a private school.

It's fine to say that the EU offers greater assistance to kids who'd otherwise have no future, but you finding another way to crowbar in boasting about your actually rather meagre considering your advantages income just undermines everything you're saying.

[phonics]

It's fine to say that the EU offers greater assistance to kids who'd otherwise have no future

Didn't say that.


but you finding another way to crowbar in boasting about your actually rather meagre considering your advantages income just undermines everything you're saying.

Didn't say that either.

I know and acknowledge I am a fuck-up, a c-tier student, a functioning alcoholic and probably a drug addict and yet I am earning more than 90% of my home country specifically because of the advantages given to me by the decisions of my parents. Deal with that how you will. You still haven't asked why I voted remain despite me stating that barely factored into it.

[John]

You still haven't asked why I voted remain despite me stating that barely factored into it.

Because I don't care. I was just lolling at the dishonesty of your bio.

[Spikey M]

A kid that was forced to emigrate abroad (but within the same region like the ROI) for tax reasons, didn't do well at school and used the inbuilt advantages of growing up in that country/school system to out-earn 90% of the populace of the country he originated from?

Yeah, terrible example.

I meant your attitude on the subject.

[Lewis]

What has any of this got to do with your view on the European Union?

[phonics]

What has any of this got to do with your view on the European Union?
Nothing, I made my comment about Henry’s opinion and I then answered questions to my reply.

[niko_cee]

Is Henry talking about the original referendum or the putative next one?

I always thought he was a full potato anyway. Of course they'd want Britain to remain in. The (lols of the) plight of The Republic would be the only thing worth actually (hard) leaving for at this point.

[Spikey M]

There you go Giggles. What you’ve been waiting for.

[Giggles]

There you go @Giggles (https://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/member.php?u=26). What you’ve been waiting for.

Fuck sake, when I seen the notification I thought there'd been a no deal and they'd the wall half built at this stage.

If you'd have manned up a hundred years ago you could have avoided all of this easily anyway.



_

[Henry]

If your reason for leaving is 'How they treated Greece', you could sit comfortable in the fact that you'd never be treated like that because you're too important to them unless you left, in which case they'd treat you like they did Greece for daring to leave. By voting leave out of that belief, you've caused the situation you wanted to avoid.

It's not just Greece. It's how the whole thing operates and how the institutions are structured. Greece is but one symptom.

But there is a need for a customs union and so forth.
niko_cee - I didn't have a vote in the first referendum but I would have voted to leave. I'm saying I've changed my mind.

[ItalAussie]

So as a hypothetical question, if we imagine the (obviously fictional) situation where the UK decided tomorrow en masse that actually they made a huge mistake and wanted to stay in the EU. Is there any actual way this could occur? I feel like the die has been well and truly cast now, and even if every single person wanted to change it, it couldn't really be done.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They'd find a way around it. The EU don't want to lose us.

[Pepe]

It sounds like the easiest thing to do. Actually leaving is far more complicated.

[Giggles]

Never ever happen though. Whether staying would be for the best or not, stiff upper lip and all that crud.

[niko_cee]

The UK's definitely not leaving (in any meaningful way). It may do so in name, maybe, but that'll be about the extent of it.

[ItalAussie]

I definitely think that whatever they did, they would have to respect the referendum result to some degree. Anything else throws into doubt every subsequent referendum they'll ever have.

[Yevrah]

We won't be having any more, that much is certain.

[niko_cee]

Well, maybe one more.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Can't wait for the Welsh independence one as promised by the new Plaid leader today. Six leeks for every child.

[Disco]

If they binned their silly fascination with preserving a dead language they might be able to afford it.

[phonics]

Say what you like about that awful language but calling a Microwave a Poppity Ping is delightful.

[Shindig]

I think we're in a situation where we have to leave and accept the terms we're given. The EU can't imply we can leave in name only because it'll give the other members some ideas. Also, if you're respecting the result (and thus democracy), you're leaving because that's the option on the ballot.

We'll leave in a huff, claiming the EU is difficult to work with and that'll be that. I mean, the nuclear option is that May halts the shitshow, calls another snap election, stands down and then whoever gets in promises 'a second referendum eventually'

[niko_cee]

The terms we're give presumably being oh please let us buy all of the things you sell us without impediment. Oh no, wait.

You can chlorinate (and fluoridate) our children, but we you'll never chlorinate our chicken!

[Shindig]

Mate, we can go outside of the EU for Coronation Chicken. :dc:

[Kikó]

From the stuff David Allen Green talks about, there really isn't enough time left to run another referendum so we will go and it'll be shit. In about 25 years we might have all the agreements back in place.

[Lewis]

I'm looking forward to how these tedious remain 'commentators' keep the scam up once we're out. It's been an absolutely magnificent bilk for some of them these past couple of years, so they will probably be tweeting selective growth statistics until the end of time.

[Spikey M]

Has Niko been beaten up by immigrants recently?

[Giggles]

Has Niko been beaten us by immigrants recently?

Some 'forrin, innit' has been pumping his Mrs :drool:

[phonics]

The Conservative Party have an app for the conference. Somehow you can login as literally anyone and it gives you the personal e-mail/phone number etc. and allows you to change those details of anyone who pre-regged to the conference.

https://i.imgur.com/XjN1bq8.png

[Lewis]

Not our politics, but the Macedonians ignoring that disgraceful stitch-up referendum is spectacular. Who does Greece think it is? It's not as if they're a vitally important part of NATO or the European Union themselves, the queers, and yet they can keep those poor little fucks out over bullshit naming rights. I would chuck them out.

[phonics]

Ol' Theresa has got on stage and tried to save her job by claiming she will bring an end to austerity. Alright, how are you planning on paying for 8 years worth of cutbacks?

[Lewis]

By not becoming Venezuela.

[phonics]

By not becoming Venezuela.

Isolated and drowning in debt? Already there, mate. May as well go the Full Monty.

[Shindig]

It's actually not that bad.

[phonics]

1049272166888497154

I understand that everything in politics is posturing but if everyone involved in this thread actually wants what is discussed we've basically just confirmed that Brexit will break apart the UK, no?

[Lewis]

Not when we get our NO DEAL border wall and sea patrols. We'll be like East Germany.

[Lewis]

If Arlene Foster, soon to be affectionately known as 'Wor Arlene', sinks Theresa May I'll send the DUP a tenner.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's always a great day when Slammin' Sammy Wilson gets quotes in the news.

[Lewis]

I'd love to think that there is some over-paid advisor/civil servant sincerely encouraging her to play chicken with them maniacs.

[Giggles]

Theresa May always looks like someone who is walking for for first time in about a decade.

[Lewis]

She's trying to remember the briefing she's just had on how to walk.

[phonics]

A friend of mine said 'She looks like one of those Boston Dynamic robots that they video being pushed over and hit with bats' which I thought was quite a decent analogy for her Premiership tbh.

[Shindig]

Anyone could've taken the leadership after the vote and we'd be saying the exact same thing.

[Spikey M]

You either bend over and pucker your arsehole for them, or you tell them to fuck off and leave without a deal. The only mistake she’s making is thinking there’s a chance of getting a ‘deal’.

[Henry]

Well, well, well. Tory scum are turning the UK into a right basket case, aren't they? The problem is not that there isn't a deal available, it's very clearly insufficient political support in the UK for any variety of deal that might be put to them. And that won't change without an election.

[Kikó]

Did you see Kate Joey's innovative suggestion Henry

1052512734401765377?s=19

[Giggles]

Did you see Kate Joey's innovative suggestion @Henry (https://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/member.php?u=7)

1052512734401765377?s=19


Because it's less than a century after getting shot of you pillaging cunts. Going back is not an option and wouldn't have a snowballs change of passing no matter how big a shower of west brits we have running the show at the moment.

[niko_cee]

You never got shot of us you daft sod. You are us, despite your hopes to be part of the Charlemagne Empire. The resentment runs deep though, understandably (has Al Murray done his bit about why everyone hates the English Re: Ireland yet?) so it's, as has been obvious from day 1, a fairly unsolvable problem (in the sense of achieving both aims of 'Brexit' and 'No hard border!').

A general election isn't going to solve anything as, I would assume, Labour would merely offer mealy-mouthed lies again and we'd be back in the same situation of having to do an impossible deal. Only a reversal of the whole thing, by whatever means, is actually going to solve anything (other than just leaving, natch).

[niko_cee]

Ad by 'us' I mean person from this loose amalgam of islands sitting in the East Atlantic sometimes, perhaps problematically, referred to as the British Isles.