UK General Election 2017 - 8 June

[Yevrah]

ftfy

So it's a system that benefits the less well off then.

[GS]

The whole point of tuition is that you're training yourself for a future career and will thus earn more. If you don't achieve higher earnings, you don't pay it back. If you do well enough, you pay some of it back but not all of it. If you do very well, you pay all of it back.

Ergo it operates as a progressive taxation on future earnings.

This isn't hard.

[Yevrah]

I've tried before. People genuinely don't get it. It might be they simply don't want to get it.

Indeed.

Here's an objective money saving expert to explain it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1izMDidvJtE

[phonics]

I'd hope we weren't actively trying to bankrupt the poor so yes?

[GS]

I'd hope we weren't actively trying to bankrupt the poor so yes?

How in the fuck is that bankrupting the poor? It's 9% on everything over 21K. If you drop below that in earnings, you pay nothing back for the duration.

[phonics]

The whole point of tuition is that you're training yourself for a future career and will thus earn more. If you don't achieve higher earnings, you don't pay it back. If you do well enough, you pay some of it back but not all of it. If you do very well, you pay all of it back.

Ergo it operates as a progressive taxation on future earnings.

This isn't hard.

This is quite the opposite of your 'corporations shouldn't pay taxes because their employees pay income tax' argument.

[Yevrah]

I'd hope we weren't actively trying to bankrupt the poor so yes?

So what's the problem with it then? If not sure you can even have a legitimate problem over something you don't understand, but crack on.

[phonics]

How in the fuck is that bankrupting the poor? It's 9% on everything over 21K. If you drop below that in earnings, you pay nothing back for the duration.
I said it wasn't bankrupting the poor?

[phonics]

So what's the problem with it then? If not sure you can even have a legitimate problem over something you don't understand, but crack on.

The original reply:


You have to start paying tuition fees when you earn over 15/16 grand. Hardly big earners. You then have to pay interest on it every month for the next 30 years/till you pay it off. It's very clearly debt.

Where does that say tuition fees shouldn't exist?

Crack on though.

[GS]

This is quite the opposite of your 'corporations shouldn't pay taxes because their employees pay income tax' argument.

What?

[AyDee]

Phonics, do you disagree with Labour's plans to scrap tuition fees then?

[Yevrah]

The original reply:



Where does that say tuition fees shouldn't exist?

Crack on though.

Ok, I guess we're done then.

[phonics]

I agree with it in principle but I can't see how you can have the same amount of people going to university AND have no tuition fees and I can't see a way for us to go back to a time where you didn't need to have some form of a university degree to do pretty much anything.

I do think having to pay 9 grand a year to go to a shitty former polytechnic with an arse reputation for your BA in David Beckham is too much as well as taking advantage of the thick though.

It's almost like the world needs nuance.

[Yevrah]

I've not had the qualified financial advisor card pulled out against me before.

[Yevrah]

I'm not longer working as an advisor though so you have that on me.

What happened? Did you advise someone that they should pay something when they didn't need to?

[Pepe]

:rasta:

[Yevrah]

Back to politics, what channel is this debate on tonight?

[phonics]

Beeb

[Jimmy Floyd]

BBC.

Can something be done about Plaid Cymru please? Can English regions be played a soothing bit of Miles Davis or similar when their woman is talking?

[GS]

Leanne Wood is afforded a ridiculous amount of publicity for a party at 13%. In Wales.

[Jimmy Floyd]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40030197

These are quite fun.

[Lewis]

Not turning up for the loser debate was a good idea. Sending somebody else in your place is a bad idea, because now they actually have somebody to direct BOTTLER taunts at rather than just being losers amongst themselves.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If they were going to send anyone, they should just have sent Boris Johnson. Amber Rudd is useless.

Send Jacob Rees-Mogg.

[GS]

Amber Rudd is effectively the deputy PM, so if she doesn't embarrass herself here she's going to be a frontrunner when the 1922 committee decide to move against May.

[phonics]

And with that post I've just found out you don't have to have a Deputy PM?

Whats the point of the role then?

[GS]

To make somebody who isn't important think that they are.

[Lewis]

http://www.electiondaypledge.co.uk/pledge

I'm busy mate soz.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I pledge allegiance to Theresa May.

[Lewis]

Labour claim that they will invest (waste) five per cent of all the football broadcasting monies in grassroots football. Whilst that is probably something football should be doing anyway, wouldn't the government forcing them to do it be classed as the sort of political interference that FIFA pretends to be against?

[GS]

Jim Messina trolling YouGov on Twitter.

[Boydy]

869908350019829760

Her shit joke at the end is so cringeworthy.

[Pepe]

Debates are always shit. With that said, refusing to attend is a wanker's trick.

[Mellberg]

Look at the state of her. Zero backbone.

[Yevrah]

She does come across as a massive chancer in that video.

[Boydy]

If you go on to the actual tweet and look at the replies, someone says the last 5 seconds (the crap joke about ITV) is pure David Brent. It's so spot on.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Tim Farron is more Gareth.

[Byron]

Christ that joke at the end really was cringeworthy.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We could do with Caroline Lucas DONNING everyone here and causing a Green surge.

[Yevrah]

Corbyn's doing pretty well here, but then he is up against some absolute shit.

[CJay]

Have to say, as a neutral viewer (never really followed UK politics much before), Corbyn seems way better at this than anyone else in the room. That Theresa May video is cringeworthy.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Red and green and yellow money? Have a day off, Amber.

[Boydy]

Red and green and yellow money? Have a day off, Amber.

:D

What the fuck was that? Has she never played monopoly?

[Lewis]

*turn it on*
*see Tim Farron blaming UKIP for a Muslim doctor being shouted at after the terrorism*
*turn it off*

[Jimmy Floyd]

Corbyn is donning this. I'm off to stock up on baked beans.

[Yevrah]

No one is demonising anyone you stupid jock twat.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That said, the audience is probably more left-slanted than those classic Toxteth Question Times.

[Disco]

It looks like an episode of the Weakest Link.

[Reg]

That said, the audience is probably more left-slanted than those classic Toxteth Question Times.
They said how the audience was put together fairly.

The Monopoly thing was so weird. :D

Caroline Lucas is doing well.

The moderator needs to do a better job.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Aberdeen McAngus is a condescending prick.

Caroline Lucas keeps getting cheered for nuclear disarmament and punitive taxation, what is this, the student union?

[Yevrah]

I can't think of a better single question and answer that shows you're completely unfit for government than a yes to getting rid of trident.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They said how the audience was put together fairly.

Yeah well unless all the conservatives and Leavers have had a damascene conversion in the face of Corbyn's charisma, I'm not sure they've succeeded.

[Reg]

Or maybe they've had nothing to cheer.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If Farage was here he would be smashing this terrorism question. Even Paul Nuttall has had a reasonable go at it. The others are all completely pathetic and wet.

[Yevrah]

If Farage was here he would be smashing this terrorism question. Even Paul Nuttall has had a reasonable go at it. The others are all completely pathetic and wet.

Nuttall's answer on that has been the best so far and he's a complete tool.

Why the rest of the panel felt the need to reiterate that the act in Manchester was abhorrent was quite telling as well. Bad you say? No fucking shit sherlock.

[Lewis]

Nigel Farage bailing when he did was probably the smartest thing anyone has ever done.

[Yevrah]

I wonder how long Jo Cox will be used as a card in terrorism top trumps.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Everyone apart from Nuttall said the same thing there - all communities, all faiths, terrorism has nothing to do with Islam, families of those victims, the people of Manchester.

Vile cowardice from the lot of them.

[Boydy]

Muesli? You're so out of touch, Tim. It's quinoa these days.

[Boydy]

I find it weird that you lot hear 'nothing to do with Islam' when people say there are various sorts of terrorism and demonising an entire community (who reported that cunt in Manchester) because of a few nutters maybe isn't a great idea.

[Lewis]

I wonder how long Jo Cox will be used as a card in terrorism top trumps.

Probably until her husband has paid their houseboat off.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You don't have to demonise an entire community, you just have to actually tackle the issue and be honest about what is happening, rather than trotting out cosy platitudes about what is not.

[Boydy]

You mean like conducting an investigation (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/31/sensitive-uk-terror-funding-inquiry-findings-may-never-be-published-saudi-arabia) into who funds extremist groups in the UK?

Oh.

[Yevrah]

What the fuck sort of question is that? Does this twat think he's on the Apprentice?

[Yevrah]

You mean like conducting an investigation (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/31/sensitive-uk-terror-funding-inquiry-findings-may-never-be-published-saudi-arabia) into who funds extremist groups in the UK?

Oh.

That's absolutely one of the things we need to be honest about, yes. That it took Paul fucking Nuttall to hit that head on first was a joke.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You mean like conducting an investigation (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/31/sensitive-uk-terror-funding-inquiry-findings-may-never-be-published-saudi-arabia) into who funds extremist groups in the UK?

Oh.

Yes, like that, and many other things. I'm not a Tory spinner.

[phonics]

They got so close on the Saudi thing and then the Welsh woman got asked a question, in the name of balance, instead of the sitting Government.

[Magic]

Corbyn unelectable? Tell that to the electorate. :drool:

[Lewis]

Theresa May (who has won this comfortably) seems to elicit an awful lot of personal SEETHE. More so than David Cameron. Alright, the SEETHE is drawn mainly from losers with 'blocked by Iain Dale' in their Twitter biographies as testament to their entire existence, but it seems to be getting worse by the week. This is probably what it was like in the eighties.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Theresa May (who has won this comfortably) seems to elicit an awful lot of personal SEETHE. More so than David Cameron. Alright, the SEETHE is drawn mainly from losers with 'blocked by Iain Dale' in their Twitter biographies as testament to their entire existence, but it seems to be getting worse by the week. This is probably what it was like in the eighties.

It's because she's the vicar's daughter and bats for provincials. Cameron, whilst a Tory, batted for liberal minds.

[Shindig]

Nigel Farage bailing when he did was probably the smartest thing anyone has ever done.

"Our single policy has been fulfilled ... and we didn't even need to be in power."

<Farage returns to home planet of Brussels> The Lib Dems seem to think they have some momentum up here. They gained 20 council seats but it's still a Labour hold, you silly sods.

[GS]

I didn't bother watching it. What's the view on performance so that some of us can feign surprise when it makes no difference whatever.

[Yevrah]

Corbyn did well I thought, not that it'll make any difference.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Corbyn was the best by far, the others just descended into a ridiculous catfight. Farron and Rudd probably the worst performers.

May will have done better out than in, as they say.

[GS]

The problem Wor Jez has with even turning up is that he has a load of also-rans / second raters standing around beside him. Unless he's absolutely smashed it, he doesn't win out of looking like he's in the same league. Sturgeon / May are the only other two who would be recognised (most people don't even know who Tim Farron is, for fuck sake, never mind Nuttall, Wood, or Lucas).

[Yevrah]

I think ultimately anyone who's engaged enough in politics to bother watching that will already have decided who they're going to vote for.

I know research suggests otherwise (a third undecided, is it?) but I don't believe that.

[Shindig]

Undecided is not quite the same as non-voting. Still, there's minds to play for.

[Disco]

The problem Wor Jez has with even turning up is that he has a load of also-rans / second raters standing around beside him. Unless he's absolutely smashed it, he doesn't win out of looking like he's in the same league. Sturgeon / May are the only other two who would be recognised (most people don't even know who Tim Farron is, for fuck sake, never mind Nuttall, Wood, or Lucas).

This is the best reason for May not taking part, it would automatically elevate all these other chumps.

[GS]

These broadcasters are absolutely fucking seething that Theresa May a) didn't turn up and b) won't do a proper debate with Corbyn. They're being denied NARRATIVE and HYPE, and that simply can't be permitted.

[Mellberg]

I usually love a bit of media bashing, but in this instance they're being denied democratic process.

[phonics]

Can I display my shock that GS has logged on as soon as the debate finished and immediately started acting like he's in the spin room.

[Magic]

Amber Rudd's da died on Monday night apparently.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I usually love a bit of media bashing, but in this instance they're being denied democratic process.

Having a staged slanging match on telly isn't democracy.

[GS]

I usually love a bit of media bashing, but in this instance they're being denied democratic process.

They're really not.

May has done an Andrew Neil interview, an audience/Paxman interrogation and another QT special on Friday. It's a far more productive way of 'shaking the apples from the tree' than any form of multi-person 'debate'. It just descends into crap soundbites and shouting at people. Half an hour with Andrew Neil gently roasting a politician over a fire is much better.

These debates are American imports for a presidential system, and they're fucking dreadful. They need killed off, but the media will never, ever get over their obsession with the HEAD TO HEAD.

[phonics]

Did enjoy the sheer amount of contempt through laughter in the audience I must admit.

[GS]

Can I display my shock that GS has logged on as soon as the debate finished and immediately started acting like he's in the spin room.

If I was in the spin room, I'd be constantly citing Jez's IRA support to broaden the message.

[Magic]

I listened on the radio driving home. Thought Corbz was good, Rudd was a bit hapless really they all ganged up on her, Nuttal needs putting down, that Angus cunt is a smarmy nat fucker, Lucas is good but she knows she'll never really have any power so can speak with utter conviction.

Overriding theme though is -10 for May. She really is a clusterfuck. Every time she opens her weird mouth she loses votes and indeed when she doesn't.

Horrible bitch who is going to produce a mighty fine upset from a devastating Tory whitewash to a hung parliament or perhaps, if she keeps going at this rate, a majority labour government.

Edit: also Farron is really weird though isn't he. Lol at the boring Welsh cunt. Fuck off you little England sheep shaggers.

[Boydy]

Can I display my shock that GS has logged on as soon as the debate finished and immediately started acting like he's in the spin room.

:D

[Mellberg]

If you think that particular debating style is worthwhile or not, it should be all or nothing. May, Sturgeon and the BBC are all accountable and the reasons for Maybot's no show are unscrupulous.

[Henry]

Corbyn is donning this. I'm off to stock up on baked beans.

I hear the local food bank does those, only its quite busy right now...

[Kikó]

May is too busy doing brexit to do this.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The best part of any election for me is watching Twitter doggedly repeat its mistakes from every previous election and referendum.

'She's toast now!'

[Magic]

The best part of any election for me is watching Twitter doggedly repeat its mistakes from every previous election and referendum.

'She's toast now!'

That depends on who you follow, you need to stop classing it as a single entity.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The single entity is way younger/more liberal/more urban/more educated than the general population and therefore groupthinks itself into completely misjudging the mood every fucking time, even when it's consciously trying not to.

I don't follow Scottish people obviously because they're irrelevant.

[Mellberg]

May is too busy doing brexit to do this.

That was a great line. Bit silly of her to call an election then.

[GS]

The single entity is way younger/more liberal/more urban/more educated than the general population and therefore groupthinks itself into completely misjudging the mood every fucking time, even when it's consciously trying not to.

I don't follow Scottish people obviously because they're irrelevant.

Labour are +12 over the Tories on Twitter, apparently, which is why they all think the TIDE IS TURNING constantly.

[Magic]

The single entity is way younger/more liberal/more urban/more educated than the general population and therefore groupthinks itself into completely misjudging the mood every fucking time, even when it's consciously trying not to.

I don't follow Scottish people obviously because they're irrelevant.

I'd agree with BREXIT. Any other examples? Trump was called in an 'FFS' way so can't use that.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't care about Trump/America although they got that wrong as well.

Twitter opinion has lost pretty much every election and referendum since it started, with the exception of anything involving Zac Goldsmith.

[Henry]

Three points in if according to another poll today!

[phonics]

May out here, connecting with real voters

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBN4i50WsAA2XoA.jpg:large

[Henry]

Very clear, that.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Aside from Hill/Timothy (who know what they're doing), the rest of her staff must be absolute fuckwits.

[phonics]

"As they would say in Brussels, ‘Donnez moi un break.’ … With the greatest respect to the debaters last night, I’m not sure that sure that Europe were watching in quite the way that you suggest." - Boris.

Can't move for people saying 'Donnez moi un break'

[Spikey M]

Corbz probably needs a lead of about 10 for it to actually translate to a win. Realistically, unless Scotland bins the SNP or dumps the Conservatives as their current protest vote then the whole thing is done.

[-james-]

Postal vote's been sent off, went for our Jeremy. Thought every option seemed as rotten as the next a month ago but he's grown on me over the campaign.

As I said earlier in the thread its in the most snp of snp slots lol so whatever.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Wouldn't surprise me if the SNP get a bit of a slapping from Labour in some parts and the Tories in others (and the LDs in a couple, maybe). Dunno how many seats will go, probably a solid handful.

The Economist has endorsed the Lib Dems, this could change everything.

[Spikey M]

I don't even care who wins, if it sees the SNP sink back in to irrelevance I'll be happy.

[Magic]

Corbz probably needs a lead of about 10 for it to actually translate to a win. Realistically, unless Scotland bins the SNP or dumps the Conservatives as their current protest vote then the whole thing is done.

The SNP are shit, only cyberNATs care about SCOTTISH LABOUR. Trust me, a lot will be voting for Corby.

[Magic]

The COALITION OF CHAOS is becoming a reality. :drool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Usually when they measure it, Scotland is way more left wing in terms of actual opinions than any part of England, so Corbyn should smash it.

The Corbyn minority government will be: Corbyn, McDonnell (terrifying), a bunch of red stooges, Caroline Lucas as energy secretary, a confidence and supply agreement with the SNP in exchange for a referendum, not sure if he'll get the remaining Lib Dems onside with all that. He'd probably need Sinn Fein to take their seats (not happening, although I wouldn't put anything past them) because all the unionist MPs will basically be extra Tories in this scenario.

All of the above will be voted down by about 150 of his own backbenchers as well as 300 Tories.

[GS]

Ergo he couldn't sustain the confidence of the house. He won't last two years. The Scottish independence bill would probably be voted down, causing the SNP to collapse the coalition and campaign on Maximum Grievance.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Actually, I reckon any party (even the Tories) should give Caroline Lucas the energy department, give her a certain budget and say 'do what you like'. She couldn't turn that down, and environment policy would be less wank.

[phonics]

Aside from Hill/Timothy (who know what they're doing), the rest of her staff must be absolute fuckwits.

I've just seen this former Obama Chief of Staff that is helping run the Tory campaign

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBMLtEBXgAEK4zr.jpg:large

Christ.

[phonics]

870310676501278720

Lol is there anything this woman actually will do?

[Reg]

She must be knocking on a shitload of doors, or writing down every word that "the voters" tell her with parchment and a fountain pen.

[Magic]

This is amazing, like Leicester winning the PL without the tinpotness. GS seethe alone will give me pleasure for days. The momentum is unstoppable.

[Yevrah]

870310676501278720

Lol is there anything this woman actually will do?

She's useless.

I would call it style over substance but that would be bullshit as while she sure as shit doesn't have any of the latter there's none of the former there either.

I've never experienced living under a proper left wing government. What's the protocol? Do I need to buy some straw and prepare the spare room (for me) come Friday 9th?

[Magic]

She's useless.

I would call it style over substance but that would be bullshit as while she sure as shit doesn't have any of the latter there's none of the former there either.

I've never experienced living under a proper left wing government. What's the protocol? Do I need to buy some straw and prepare the spare room (for me) come Friday 9th?

At least you won't be taxed on the spare room.

[Yevrah]

She'll still win as the silent blue vote will do the job (and the wailing whingy lefty student fucks won't get out of bed to vote before 10pm), but fuck me, it should have been a landslide. I guess it still might.

[Yevrah]

Is Cleggers in with a shot of losing his seat and having to join alarm clock Britain?

[Spikey M]

My wife is an a disinterested voter and has no fucking idea who she wants to vote for. Are there any short articles / programs that give a quick run down of the options?

[Lewis]

I saw Tim Farron on the news, and I think it was the first time I've seen him clarify his second referendum balls. First we negotiate the 'deal', and then we vote to leave on it or stay in. Yeah, mate. Yeah. That should ensure smooth negotiations. You absolute cunt.

[Boydy]

My wife is an a disinterested voter and has no fucking idea who she wants to vote for. Are there any short articles / programs that give a quick run down of the options?

There's quite a good one here (https://shop.labour.org.uk/media/images/products/2017/04/A2_correx.png).

[Yevrah]

I saw Tim Farron on the news, and I think it was the first time I've seen him clarify his second referendum balls. First we negotiate the 'deal', and then we vote to leave on it or stay in. Yeah, mate. Yeah. That should ensure smooth negotiations. You absolute cunt.

I'd have less of a problem if he just called a spade a spade and said he thinks it's a terrible idea that we leave, the British people fucked up in voting for us to do so and he's going to gerrymander the shit out of the process until the 'right' result is achieved. Hiding behind this bullshit about letting the people decide (err, we already did you tool) is straight from the SNP's Stalinist inspired playbook and their absolute refusal to admit what their real motivations are.

[Pepe]

Is Labour 'proper left?'

[Yevrah]

Is Labour 'proper left?'

If Corbyn gets into power they will be. You can kiss goodbye to whatever softly softly bullshit was in the manifesto.

[Magic]

My wife is an a disinterested voter and has no fucking idea who she wants to vote for. Are there any short articles / programs that give a quick run down of the options?

Use her vote for yourself.

[Boydy]

If Corbyn gets into power they will be. You can kiss goodbye to whatever softly softly bullshit was in the manifesto.

:D

Calm down.

[Pepe]

What 'soflty softly' bullshit is in the manifesto? What does that even mean?

[Magic]

What 'soflty softly' bullshit is in the manifesto? What does that even mean?

Free university, higher corporation tax, 50p tax rate for all the rich cunts. That horrible stuff, you know.

[Pepe]

Free university, higher corporation tax, 50p tax rate for all the rich cunts. That horrible stuff, you know.

Is that what you can kiss goodbye to?

[Magic]

:dirk:

[Pepe]

You can kiss goodbye to whatever softly softly bullshit was in the manifesto.


What 'soflty softly' bullshit is in the manifesto?


Free university, higher corporation tax, 50p tax rate for all the rich cunts.

After a quick read on the manifesto (like judging a player based on a Youtube reel,) I declare it proper left.

[Boydy]

Interesting read about Yougov's polling methodology here (https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-01/yougov-is-the-most-interesting-poll-in-britain-right-now).

[7om]

I saw Tim Farron on the news, and I think it was the first time I've seen him clarify his second referendum balls. First we negotiate the 'deal', and then we vote to leave on it or stay in. Yeah, mate. Yeah. That should ensure smooth negotiations. You absolute cunt.

:D

Just get Charles Kennedy back ffs. At least it was entertaining trying to work out if he was pissed during his speeches.

[Raoul Duke]

Didn't he die?

[Magic]

:D

Just get Charles Kennedy back ffs. At least it was entertaining trying to work out if he was pissed during his speeches.

He actuality was a depressed alcoholic.

[7om]

Fuck, he died :|

I'm burning hell, then, that's good to know.

[Pepe]

:D

[Abelxaviersdodgyhairdo]

If Corbyn gets into power they will be. You can kiss goodbye to whatever softly softly bullshit was in the manifesto.

Labours manifesto is pretty much fully costed and works for the many, not the few.

I don't see what there's not to like!

[Pepe]

Definitely not Harold.

[GS]

If Corbyn gets into power they will be. You can kiss goodbye to whatever softly softly bullshit was in the manifesto.

Jez couldn't get half this shit through parliament, never mind stuff from the mentalist fringe. Moderates aren't going to listen to the whips, and they'd argue that they ran local campaigns effectively independent of the manifesto commitments and thus aren't bound by it.

He'd need a Blair 2005 majority, absolute minimum. Even then, he'd struggle.

His Queen's Speech doesn't get through, and we're back to the polls within 18 months.

[Abelxaviersdodgyhairdo]

You sound like you're scared, GS.

[GS]

No sensible Tory is. In the midst of the SURGE, very few consider the actual logistics of what would happen. You're only PM if your government can command the confidence of the house. He can't even put a shadow cabinet together. Where are the ministers coming from to populate an entire government?

[Abelxaviersdodgyhairdo]

I thought the Labour manifesto was a group effort otherwise you would have had Trident being scrabbed and the Queen dethroned.

I think given the public perception of Jeremy Corbyn now compared to a month ago even that the Labour party backstabbers would be foolish to test him. He was re-elected as the leader, his seat in his constituency is as close to untouchable as you're going to get and by the large the man is just a genuine human being. I don't know where his bench cabinet will come from but I can almost imagine the MP's that were slating him and resigning not so long ago are regretting it now. He strikes me as more of a leader than any of the other parties. In an ideal and fanciful world he and Caroline Lucas would form an alliance.

[phonics]

Jez couldn't get half this shit through parliament, never mind stuff from the mentalist fringe. Moderates aren't going to listen to the whips, and they'd argue that they ran local campaigns effectively independent of the manifesto commitments and thus aren't bound by it.

He'd need a Blair 2005 majority, absolute minimum. Even then, he'd struggle.

His Queen's Speech doesn't get through, and we're back to the polls within 18 months.


Absolutely loving the 'Manifesto doesn't matter' GS.

MANDATE

[GS]

No, I said that would be their argument for not voting for things they don't agree with. They're already on record calling him useless by refusing to serve in the shadow cabinet, so they can't exactly retreat on the position. Jez couldn't exactly complain, having voted against the Labour whip 480 odd times.

The issue with MANDATE would be the Lords not blocking what Wor Jez has in his manifesto as per the Salisbury Convention. There would be nothing stopping the Commons.

[Pepe]

Not that any of it matters as he is never going to win.

[phonics]

They're already on record calling him useless by refusing to serve in the shadow cabinet, so they can't exactly retreat on the position.

Lol

(Would like to reiterate that I think Labour will get smashed, I just find the about turn on the conversation funny)

[GS]

Well, quite.

[Yevrah]

David Dimbleby presents topical debate from Barnet in north London.

On the panel are Conservative Brexit secretary David Davis, Labour's shadow international trade secretary Barry Gardiner, Liberal Democrat former deputy prime minister Nick Clegg, SNP deputy leader Angus Robertson and Ukip deputy chairman Suzanne Evans.

SNP. Sigh.

[Boydy]

870375815359410176

Is she actually okay? Like, is she ill or something?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not as ill as Cleggers's haircut.

She's just stonewalling. People don't look at Owen Jones seething on twitter, they will look if she fucks up somewhere.

[Pepe]

Smart move. Or something.

[Boydy]

She also didn't go on Women's Hour on Radio 4.

[Pepe]

Clever tactics.

[Kikó]

I hope we start nationalising the rail anyway. If the French and Germans can run our railways,I don't see why we can't.

And fully nationalise the energy sector before the grid collapses and the Chinese install randomware.

[Lewis]

I reckon this election might finish Owen Jones off.

[Boydy]

I reckon this election might finish Owen Jones off.

I doubt it. Another tory government will give him plenty to write about.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This Barry Gardiner is named after his sexual habits.

[Reg]

She doesn't think we're worthy / thinks she'll get away with it so doesn't give a fuck. It symbolises the Conservatives' whole approach to government in the last 7 years: "let's screw people until they kick up too much of a fuss and we have to rethink."

[Boydy]

He's alright.

869941093944750085

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

SNP. Sigh.

Angus Robertson no less.

The SNP have a proper knack of attracting the most sanctimonious arseholes in the country. His seat isn't safe either. That would be most welcome on the 9th.

[Lewis]

Seven pence for cornflakes is probably a decent bowl if you bought them wholesale.

[Magic]

It's probably a full bowl tbh given the massive packs only cost about a quid.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Jesus Christ, just watching Farron and Brillo now, what a fucking colossal twat.

[Pepe]

Seven pence for cornflakes is probably a decent bowl if you bought them wholesale.

How about if you buy them in that cereal bar?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Jesus Christ, just watching Farron and Brillo now, what a fucking colossal twat.

People go on about the Tory campaign being bad, and it has been, but the Lib Dem campaign has probably destroyed the party for good at a time when they really should have been bouncing back.

[GS]

I wouldn't be surprised if Clegg ends up coming back to give them a bit of national profile. Farron has been absolutely dreadful.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hard when you've got 9 MPs and one of them is Alistair Carmichael.

[GS]

It is, but at least people know who he is. Then again, his own credibility is ruined too.

Maybe Vince if gets back in.

When you step back from it, they're just a ruined 'brand' aren't they.

[Offshore Toon]

Are they disliked solely because of university fees? Ridiculous that the Lib Dems get stick for that and not the Tories.

[Spammer]

It's not really, because the Lib Dems campaigned specifically the opposite of what they ended up doing (or at least, enabling to happen).

I voted Lib Dem in 2010 for some reason but I didn't vote for that shite. At least if you vote the Tories you kinda expect that kind of thing.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Tories said they would increase tuition fees and did it. Lib Dems said they would abolish them and were then part of a government that increased them.

That said, you don't go from 25% to 8% on the basis of not abolishing tuition fees. Most people used them as a protest vessel before and obviously you're not that anymore when you go into government. I think you'd be surprised how many Lib Dem 2010 / UKIP 2015 people there will have been.

[Offshore Toon]

Hammer I suppose. They must have managed to get some policies through in exchange, though? You can't enter a coalition as a much smaller voice and make too many demands.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They got the fixed term parliaments act (lol), the AV referendum (snigger) and something about raising the personal allowance which was quite good.

[Offshore Toon]

The Tories said they would increase tuition fees and did it. Lib Dems said they would abolish them and were then part of a government that increased them.

That said, you don't go from 25% to 8% on the basis of not abolishing tuition fees. Most people used them as a protest vessel before and obviously you're not that anymore when you go into government. I think you'd be surprised how many Lib Dem 2010 / UKIP 2015 people there will have been.
True. It's a shame Charles Kennedy couldn't have done more. Thoroughly likeable bloke imo.

[Offshore Toon]

Oh yeah, didn't they fuck up by opting for AV over PR?

[Jimmy Floyd]

They weren't getting PR out of the Tories (it was 300 seats to 57 or something). They came into it off the back of Cleggmania thinking they would get 100+ seats in which case PR referendum (which would have been lost) might have been a possibility.

[Boydy]

Conservative candidate Craig Mackinlay charged over election expenses

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/02/craig-mackinlay-charged-over-tory-election-expenses?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Twitter belief levels are really soaring today. Can't wait for them to win Hackney & Shoreditch with 138% of the vote.

[John]

The headline promise on the Conservative leaflet I've had through the door today is that they'll take another look at a parking plan about six miles away. That sort of piddling, small scale nonsense usually comes in from some single issue twonk running independently.

[John Arne]

They got the fixed term parliaments act (lol), the AV referendum (snigger) and something about raising the personal allowance which was quite good.

Somewhat strangely, the Tory manifesto this time round includes repealing the Fixed-term Act - presumably just to have a dig at Clegg.

[phonics]

It'd be a bit weird calling an election that breaks the act only to reinstate it when you won.

[John Arne]

It'd be a bit weird calling an election that breaks the act only to reinstate it when you won.

As I understand it, this election did not break the act, as the the act allows for early elections in some occasions (such as a 2/3 agree to have an election, as happened in this instance).

[GS]

It didn't break the Act - it complied with it.

It's pointless and should be repealed immediately anyway.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've just been reading the splits from the last YouGov poll which had 42/39 (it's a slow day at work) and my confidence in a large Tory win has been renewed.

It'll only be dampened if I reach the polling station on Thursday and find 100 teenagers queued up outside.

[Yeldoow]

What are the chances that the EU referendum result (and the perception that pensioners dragged young people out of the EU and "stole their futures") leads to a big turnout from the under 35s?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Possible, but also could be wishful thinking.

[Lewis]

Wouldn't the only people who thought that have voted in 2015 anyway?

[GS]

A sudden surge in youth turnout would have to be well above anything that's been seen before.

That's not saying it can't happen, but you'd be hard pressed to argue that it's going to.

[Lewis]

She is doing alright here, but then it seems to mostly be about Brexit, and a fucking monkey could have Jezza on that.

[Lewis]

I find the fact that she clearly hates having to do this quite reassuring.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That was probably her strongest performance of the campaign. Jeremy is holding his own again here but he got a bit wound up by that Jewish question.

[Lewis]

I hope 'some idiot in Iran' makes it into the next defence review.

[Yevrah]

Corb's has had some serious training on this stuff over the last 12 months, his delivery is very good.

[Lewis]

He's fundamentally unintelligent.

[Lewis]

He's shat the communal bed here.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The last 20 minutes he's had an absolute mare.

Especially 'Businesses have done very well because of tax cuts' ... yeah mate, so you want them to do badly?

[Reg]

He's fundamentally unintelligent.
Corbyn? Wtf

[Lewis]

Yes. He's thick. Forty years in politics, and what - intellectually speaking - is there to show for it?

[Reg]

What would make him not thick, in your eyes?

And are you talking about achievements? As in, becoming your party's leader for example?

[Shindig]

In forty years, Lewis will be telling people of his achievements on this board to complete strangers.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Corbyn's a bloke who signs petitions and whinges about things to adoring crowds, and became leader by accident. If you compare him to previous giants of the left like Michael Foot there's no intellectual comparison whatsoever.

[Lewis]

Yeah. That.

[Jimmy Floyd]

My favourite Corbyn story is from his days as a backbench MP when he had someone or other in his office, offered them a cup of tea, they accepted, he made it and then drank it himself. Absent-minded local activist.

[Lewis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYeVQzTVyLk

[Shindig]

My favourite Corbyn story is from his days as a backbench MP when he had someone or other in his office, offered them a cup of tea, they accepted, he made it and then drank it himself. Absent-minded local activist.

First pledge in the manifesto is "A cup of tea." :dc:

[randomlegend]

My favourite Corbyn story is from his days as a backbench MP when he had someone or other in his office, offered them a cup of tea, they accepted, he made it and then drank it himself. Absent-minded local activist.

He was asserting dominance.

[Reg]

Corbyn's a bloke who signs petitions and whinges about things to adoring crowds, and became leader by accident. If you compare him to previous giants of the left like Michael Foot there's no intellectual comparison whatsoever.
I don't like Diego Costa so from now on all his goals are scored by accident.

[Offshore Toon]

I think the fact he "became leader by accident" is what makes him appealing. Politics is shit and has been for a long time, but its developed into the ridiculous in the past two years. Corbyn comes across as that friendly, caring, IRA-supporting regular guy we all know and love. It seems like such an easy choice. Then again, I don't mind if the country goes tits up; Jersey will probably be alright.

[Dark Soldier]

The country is gonna nose dive off a fucking cliff regardless of who's in control, but I'd rather the shabby, old hippy drug dealer leads us off said cliff than a Thatcher-light dried up retched old cunt.

[GS]

It's a fair charge.

Corbyn doesn't appear to have changed a single opinion since he was about 18. It seems he developed a particular world view and has steadfastly held on ever since. Foreign policy basically boils down to peace is good, war is bad, 'not the West' are the good ones, the West themselves are very bad. Domestic policy is public sector great, private sector evil.

For comparison's sake, Michael Foot was bonkers, but he was still a serious, intellectual heavyweight on the issues.

It suggests a lack of intellectual rigour and an unwillingness to consider nuance and balance on issues when your default position is that everyone who disagrees with you is an immoral warmongering imperialist.

[Pepe]

Do your thing Boydy.

[Dark Soldier]

It suggests a lack of intellectual rigour and an unwillingness to consider nuance and balance on issues

You've just described the majority of the country, so its understandable. Hence nukes, nukes and more nukes.

I don't follow a party, I'd vote for whomever I feel will do the best for the country and those I care about, and in the past few years I've seen the Tories systematically batter the ever living fuck out of those people, hence Labour.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't like Diego Costa so from now on all his goals are scored by accident.

Corbyn as PM is like giving the Forest Green manager the England job because he plays good football.

May is more Steve Bruce. He's fucking shit, but at least he's been there and seen it.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Who on here has even ever voted for someone they thought was genuinely good and not just the least bad option?

[Dark Soldier]

Who on here has even ever voted for someone they thought was genuinely good and not just the least bad option?

Nope, never. Its all playground level these days, buzzwords, catchphrases, how they look, can they eat a fucking bacon sarnie.

[Shindig]

"Strong and Stable Leadership in the National Interest (tm)". I'm calling it. Coalition government. Pity Corbyn wobbled on the nuclear 'issue'. He could've just said, "We have conventional weapons, dickhead." and dropped the mic. Or questioned why the fella suggested North Korea had the range and Iran had the intent to launch one at us. Given how Trump reacted in Syria, we could just let him take the moral high ground on that situation.

[GS]

You can't, really. Corbyn can obfuscate on defence issues all he likes, but if he clearly articulated his actual views he'd basically be writing the Tory attack ads for him.

His policy of saying "they'll go ahead because the party voted for it, but you all know there's no chance I'm using it" is just stupid.

He's a pacifist and has been his whole life. Which is fine, but "talking" isn't a solution to everything and if you're not prepared to use the military to defend the country then you can't really be PM.

[Magic]

Corbyn is the face that scores the goals (Costa). He's relying on giants like Abbott (Kante) and McDonnell (Hazard) for all the build up play and building the game.

[Magic]

Ruth Davidson to replace the spineless freak May?

[Kikó]

His stance on nuclear weapons is spot on. If someone was to use one on us we're beyond fucked anyway.

[Byron]

I do enjoy this prevailing stance from the right of 'he wouldn't use nuclear weapons?! What an unfit leader'

Because of course the first thing we should do when feeling threatened is to wipe Moscow or Tehran off the map.

[Shindig]

His stance on nuclear weapons is spot on. If someone was to use one on us we're beyond fucked anyway.

And who would actually use nuclear weapons against us? ISIS don't have the backing or organisation whilst North Korea don't have the range. Meanwhile Iran's got a moderate in charge. You threaten for leverage. You act when you're already fucked.

[Henry]

A commitment to destroying all life on earth seems to me a strange qualification for high office.

[Kikó]

So you WOULDN'T nuke another country? How can this person lead our nation!

I'm sure Teresa would. Then change her mind and say she won't fire it. Before selling the codes to China.

[Shindig]

By the time anyone's decided to push the button, Trump will have already struck with convention weapons. Then we'll all look at him like, "WTF, mate!?"

[Spikey M]

Just watched last nights Question Time. May is fucking awful, I can see why she fucked the debates off. Jezza it is.

[GS]

You all realise he's going into the ejection with a manifesto that says they're going to spend the money building it anyway? Why would you do that and then refuse to countenance using them?

[Kikó]

He said he wouldn't fire first tbh.

[Spikey M]

He said he would do everything he could to avoid having to make the choice, which sounds like the only sensible way of dealing with them to me.

[Magic]

You all realise he's going into the ejection with a manifesto that says they're going to spend the money building it anyway? Why would you do that and then refuse to countenance using them?

Only May will be ejected.

[Yevrah]

You all realise he's going into the ejection with a manifesto that says they're going to spend the money building it anyway? Why would you do that and then refuse to countenance using them?

Because the manifesto's clearly a lie. If he got into power there's no way he'd renew it

[Yevrah]

As for last night, I thought Corbyn was pretty good. He's come on leaps and bounds in the last 12 months.

Theresa May is increasingly useless and has almost zero substance, to the point where were it not for a couple of deal breakers I'd consider voting Labour.

[Lewis]

British (and Western) nuclear strategy has always been retaliatory (as in not going first). It's the reason we have submarines in the first place. If you don't believe in it you don't believe in it. If you do believe in it you would be willing to use them. Where Jezza fell to bits was waffling on about peace conferences and disarmament, as if nobody had ever thought of that before, which also feeds into the feeling that he would also be a complete mimsy where more likely threats were concerned.

[Reg]

You all realise he's going into the ejection with a manifesto that says they're going to spend the money building it anyway? Why would you do that and then refuse to countenance using them?
No first use is his policy.

[Pepe]

Who's going to invade you, or drop some bombs on you anyway? Such a minor thing to worry about. That and the IRA shite are nothing but distractions to avoid dealing with the things that matter.

[Yevrah]

Who's going to invade you, or drop some bombs on you anyway?

At the moment? No-one. But it'd be incredibly short sighted to bin trident off because that's where we are right now.

[Lewis]

It's not so much invasions. If the European Union starts giving it the big'un about Gibraltar (or Argentina with the Falklands), the only acceptable response would be to tell them to get fucked; but, given his record in these areas (which is another indicator that he is a bit thick), it's highly likely that he would have them round for a bum before selling the locals out.

[GS]

Because the manifesto's clearly a lie. If he got into power there's no way he'd renew it

He'd be forced to, because there's no majority in the Commons for abolition and having stood on a manifesto to renew it he couldn't get abolition through the Lords anyway.

In effect, his policy is spend billions and billions of quid on an advanced defence system and make it abundantly clear to everyone that you won't use it under any circumstances whatever. Lewis is right - he talks as if "talking and negotiation" is somehow new and innovative.

It's fine for people with no responsibility to advocate this sort of thing, but you can't have a pacifist as prime minister. He's basically an appeaser, because if there other side kick off he simply wouldn't be prepared to take the steps needed.

For all his "principles", he simply can't admit his real views on defence in the course of the campaign because he'd be eaten alive
He knows it too, hence his obfuscation.

[GS]

It's not so much invasions. If the European Union starts giving it the big'un about Gibraltar (or Argentina with the Falklands), the only acceptable response would be to tell them to get fucked; but, given his record in these areas (which is another indicator that he is a bit thick), it's highly likely that he would have them round for a bum before selling the locals out.

Jez doesn't really believe in self determination where he perceives an imperialist Western intent. Precedent demonstrates this, given he'd have left the Falklands in the hands of the junta and supported the reunification of Ireland through coercion. He hasn't changed his mind.

[Reg]

In effect, his policy is spend billions and billions of quid on an advanced defence system and make it abundantly clear to everyone that you won't use it under any circumstances whatever. Lewis is right - he talks as if "talking and negotiation" is somehow new and innovative.

It's fine for people with no responsibility to advocate this sort of thing, but you can't have a pacifist as prime minister. He's basically an appeaser, because if there other side kick off he simply wouldn't be prepared to take the steps needed.
No, he's made it "abundantly clear" there will be no first use.

"If the other side kick off" is exactly when he would use it.

[GS]

No, he's made it "abundantly clear" there will be no first use.

"If the other side kick off" is exactly when he would use it.

You'd need to be an idiot to believe this.

[Reg]

Yeah I enjoyed talking too mate.

[GS]

Sorry, but you really would.

[Shindig]

Grand Seethe

[Kikó]

Northern Ireland has nothing to do with Britain, same with Gibraltar, same with the Falklands.

[Lewis]

You'll be voting in your own self-interest next.

[Spammer]

Seen Corbyn's bit about nuclear attacks.

I agree with his point, but the whole point of a deterrent is that people think we were willing to use it. I mean shit.

[ItalAussie]

"There's nothing that could compel me to use nuclear weapons" is a perfectly reasonable stance, given the incredible ramifications of using that technology.

Frankly, on the topic of nuclear weapons, there are only two even vaguely reasonable positions for any sane person to take, which are "never under any circumstances" and "not unless someone else used them first". And even then, the latter needs to be said with very serious trepidation.