UK General Election 2017 - 8 June

[Jimmy Floyd]

That sounds a bit Ted Heath. We're remaining.

Also, how are the public supposed to 'get behind it' unless there is a deal/remain referendum?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

She really needs to just fuck off.

I appreciate that she DIDN'T WANT THIS and was FORCED INTO IT but she keeps making it worse.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Lib Dem Brexit spokesman Tom Brake notes that the prime minister's letter requesting an extension to Article 50 "wasn't even submitted in time".

"The level of incompetence of this government is unparalleled," he says.

:D

[niko_cee]

In terms of where this can go for more madness, wouldn't it be quite easy for dissident leavers to cause lots of those 10% recall by-elections (bye-elections?)

[Disco]

The public already got behind it. This Parliament needs to suck it up and do as they've been told the big bunch of cowards.

[Yevrah]

The public already got behind it. This Parliament needs to suck it up and do as they've been told the big bunch of cowards.

The public got behind the idea and wanted it to be delivered, but it manifestly can't be delivered so we are where we are.

[Yevrah]

Having caught up on events I'd suggest the only way we're leaving is with a no deal Brexit, which may spook MP's into voting for a deal they hate but as the lesser of two evils.

To be fair to her, she's actually played a blinder here.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

What the public wanted and what is on the table is very different.

[Giggles]

What the public wanted and what is on the table is very different.

I don't think "forrins out and untold riches for everyone" was ever going to get through from day one.

[Spikey M]

What's on the table can barely be called Brexit. Not that I actually want Brexit, but you know, if we're going to Brexit let's actually do it.

[Lewis]

lol at that shit. If you can't govern, fuck off.

[Disco]

:d

1108447950659899393

[Jimmy Floyd]

We need some DRAMA and a revocation. And she needs to go.

DRAMA required urgently.

[Giggles]

Maybe the lager lout has some more up his sleeve.

[phonics]

1108719530057089024

These lot are making a serious case for a return to the feudal system or the french revolution. I'll take either at this point.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This is all such a waste of time. She will lose MV3 and we will remain.

Corbyn/Milne still playing for an accidental No Deal, which is adorable.

[niko_cee]

So they're going to agree to a short extension on the proviso MV3 doesn't go down with its sister vessels next week, but Big Bad Barry is going to eat that one as well (in the parlance of children's television), at which point a longer extension becomes necessary presumably? How does that work? May resigns and the Queen marches back in to take over and revoke Article 50 and/or the democratic process? At some point someone in this whole thing is going to follow through on a threat and it's going to fuck the whole process, because at the moment no one seems to be buying into this brinkmanship on any side.

[Yeldoow]

Assuming that she does lose MV3 what would happen from there?

Does the EU 180 and give us an extension anyway?

I can't see revoking A50 getting through parliament either.

It seems plausible that the EU decides that they've had enough of this shit show and we exit with no deal as parliament can't agree to do anything else.

[niko_cee]

Isn't revoking Article 50 an executive action?

May goes, Jeremy Hunt takes over, suicide bombs the process for the good of the nation, becomes national hero.

[phonics]

Chris Grayling to step on one last landmine.

[Yeldoow]

Isn't revoking Article 50 an executive action?

Could be, I'm not sure. But she's not going to do that surely?

How long would it take to get the next Prime Minister in place to revoke it? Do we assume that any change in PM/Government/General Election/Referendum and the EU will agree to a delay in the hope it ends with us remaining?

[Jimmy Floyd]

If she loses MV3 then there are only three possible outcomes:

1. She or another PM revokes A50 before Friday
2. Nothing happens before Friday and we go out with no deal
3. The EU agrees to a long extension (but with what conditions?)

Parliamentary arithmetic makes 1 difficult and 2 impossible.

[Yevrah]

Isn’t 2 the default do nothing/vote against everything outcome?

Which surely seems most likely at this point.

[Jimmy Floyd]

2 would need one of these conditions to be true:

a) the PM (whether May or someone else) not to ask for a long extension
b) the EU to refuse a longer extension

b) would be needless self-harm on the EU's part, while a) would surely trigger some kind of reaction event in Parliament.

[Yevrah]

For a, May wants to leave, so she may not ask for it and if she doesn’t, what trigger event could there possibly be?

[Boydy]

Isn’t 2 the default do nothing/vote against everything outcome?

Which surely seems most likely at this point.

Yeah, we're gonna bumble our way into no deal the same way we (or David Cameron) bumbled ourselves into this mess.

[Jimmy Floyd]

MPs will have to vote for No Deal in some form for it to happen. If No Deal looks on the cards next week then somebody will put a revoke motion forward, and voting against that will be a vote for No Deal (this is in a no extension scenario).

Also remember Bercow is an ultra remainer and working to that end.

[niko_cee]

Why?

She's going to resign if/when MV III sinks.

[Jimmy Floyd]

She should do, but I don't think it's outside the realms of possibility that she will stay on amd switch to No Deal, bowing to the will of the people.

[Giggles]

Boydy, what's the thoughts up there in general on it all? From the small sample size of friends I have on messaging/social media/etc it is nearly down the middle as Unionists are all in on Leave because BRITAIN and Nationalists are all about remain because NOT BRITAIN. Have you seen many differing opinions from that?

[Lewis]

Floyd regretting his vote, talking himself round.

[Boydy]

Boydy, what's the thoughts up there in general on it all? From the small sample size of friends I have on messaging/social media/etc it is nearly down the middle as Unionists are all in on Leave because BRITAIN and Nationalists are all about remain because NOT BRITAIN. Have you seen many differing opinions from that?

Yeah, I don't think it's as clear cut along the community lines as that. My parents for instance who would always vote unionist of some sort voted remain and would rather stay in.

Everyone at work's pro-remain but then we're all young liberal sorts anyway.

[Giggles]

Yeah, I don't think it's as clear cut along the community lines as that. My parents for instance who would always vote unionist of some sort voted remain and would rather stay in.

Everyone at work's pro-remain but then we're all young liberal sorts anyway.

Ah right, yeah I'd expect there to be an age split of sorts too. The sample I was talking about would all be around the same era. Wouldn't be any liberal types either among the lot, even the younger ones.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Floyd regretting his vote, talking himself round.

I hadn't factored a Theresa May premiership into my vote.

[Yevrah]

I hadn't factored a Theresa May premiership into my vote.

Nobody would have done any better to be frank. We simply don't have the ability to see this through without no-dealing the fuck out of it.

[phonics]

Uri Geller has written to Theresa May saying he's going to telepathically stop Brexit so that's that.

[Ian]

If the spoons are anything to go by then he'll be stopping his own doctored Brexit that he's brought with him and not the one us poor cunts are having to endure all this faff about.

[randomlegend]

There's a patient I have looked after at work a few times who is very well known to the hospital. Given half decent social support they could probably live a relatively normal life. As it is I would put money on them being dead in the next two years. I would also put money on the fact it will cost more to provide the medical care they ends up having in those two years than it would to look after their social needs for the next 40 and avoid a lot of the medical costs.

It's actually a fucking disgrace and it's all borne out of the fact there is seemingly nobody taking any kind of long-term or big picture view to how money is spent and the fact there are always so many cooks having input that nobody feels responsible for what happens to anyone.

The case is genuinely heart-breaking to me. Almost everyone else just seems happy to say it's their own fault because their issues are the consequences of IVDU, but I'd suggest they may not have made the excellent choices they think they would if they'd lived this person's life.

[phonics]

Some Iranian Christian got their refugee status turned down with this as the reason:

"You say in your application Jesus is your saviour, but then claim He wouldn’t be able to save you from the Iranian regime. It’s therefore considered you have no conviction in your faith and your belief in Jesus is half-hearted."

[Lewis]

Evidence-based policy mate.

[Disco]

One step above 'Illegalimmigrantsayswhat'

[Boydy]

1109567775687802880

:sick:

I hate these twee cunts.

[Boydy]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2bHIUJWoAAZIWM.jpg

Fuck off and die.

[Lewis]

That first one. That is the joke ('joke'), right, that it isn't? She can't just be an idiot.

[Boydy]

I dunno, the FBPErs all seem to pride themselves on proper grammar and shit so I wouldn't be surprised if she's just an idiot.

[Offshore Toon]

Were there any placards at Farage's march? Bet there were some belters, if so.

[phonics]

There were only like 12 people so I'm not sure the variety would be there.

[niko_cee]

I'm not sure there were any people at it.

[Lewis]

For all the piss taking it has attracted, a hundred people walking the length of the country is infinitely more impressive than a few hundred thousand fannies bussing down to London for a circle jerk.

[phonics]

Alright Hammer.

[Offshore Toon]

https://i.redd.it/ijlk8vr0f1o21.jpg

[Lewis]

Elsewhere, this coup that all of the papers got themselves all excited about seems to have bombed. Bless the people who still have faith in Michael Gove.

[phonics]

I’m amazed Toby Young’s endorsement didn’t push people on.

[Yevrah]

The idea of a coup is laughable. No-one has the balls to step up and take this mess on.

[Spikey M]

This is the thing, isn't it? This shit is career suicide. If you have your head screwed on, and you value your future as a politician, you stay as uninvolved in Brexit as possible.

[niko_cee]

Unless you want to be the revoke hero that UNITES THE NATION (well, the bit that matters).

Have both major parties ever been simultaneously led by Jeremies before (not Jens)?

[Lewis]

Someone needs to take it on and crash the plane into the mountain. With that in mind, Theresa May might as well, and then I can stop caring once we reach No Deal paradise.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Are we going to have votes pretty much daily until we leave/cancel everything?

[Spikey M]

All in favour?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

You moron, we need a vote about whether we should put it to a vote.

[Lewis]

It doesn't sound like there is a majority for any of the likely 'solutions' anyway. :harold:

[Shindig]

They're content to argue in the hope that May turns the car around.

[niko_cee]

Even if they corral around "Common Market 2.0" and somehow trot off to Brussels with that in their red leather briefcases, isn't the response going to be "yes, thanks, that's all very nice, but what we need you to do first is sign that withdrawal agreement".

Of course, the more cynical view would be that a failure to find any way to progress things is the most expedient way to get to another referendum, but, also of course, that's not what all this is about. This is about 'honouring' the result of the last one.

The labour shadow minister saying yesterday that they would vote against May's deal if it included a 'confirmatory' referendum with the option to stay (which is literally their policy) shows quite how inescapable this situation is. Someone on one side or the other is going to have to unilaterally decide to crash, or park, the bus. Crashing is only going to be accidental, I don't think anyone's going to consciously do it.

[Lewis]

Labour are also against the 'backstop' because there is no unilateral escape mechanism, even though their policy is for a permanent customs union. They are every bit as shit and dishonest as the government.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The only way it will be solved is with further democracy, whether that be another referendum or a GE to change the parliamentary arithmetic. It's shameful that May has not attempted to break the deadlock by pursuing one of those options, as a leader would.

[Yevrah]

How would another referendum solve anything and if there was a general election and it didn't change the parliamentary arithmetic, what then?

[Lewis]

Logically we would just leave, because they have fucked up and run the clock down, but you wouldn't put it past them to do something drastic to avoid it like change the voting system.

[Yevrah]

I'm convinced the only way to actually leave is to no deal it.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Another referendum with leave winning again might be worth the hassle just to see the meltdown that will make the hysterics after the Scottish Independence referendum result and Trump look small fry.

[Lewis]

I seem to remember some reasonably conciliatory noises coming out of various bodies across the water in the immediate aftermath of the vote, like a few of them had thought 'Oh shit they did it'; but as soon as they started being dickheads about the Irish border it was obvious any sort of comprehensive agreement was never going to happen. We ought to have just been shaking hands on various smaller things as a lead-up to something wide-ranging (i.e. day one, lets recognise each others foreigners, and bank that), but they just fucked that straight out the gate.

[Spikey M]

I'm convinced the only way to actually leave is to no deal it.

It's either No deal, Remain, or a repeat referendum. There will be no deal with the EU. Old Terry May could secure closed borders, no fee and a free rim job for each of us from Swedens Sexiest Sluts and Wor Jezza and co. Would still vote against it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

How would another referendum solve anything and if there was a general election and it didn't change the parliamentary arithmetic, what then?

Either would give a fresh mandate for something more specific than 'Leave the European Union'. The 2016 referendum should really be cast aside now, because it is now apparent that simply 'Leave the European Union' is not sufficient as instruction to Parliament.

[Lewis]

Vote Leave explicitly campaigned to TAKE BACK CONTROL of borders, laws, and money (as much as Kremlinologist saddos like to blame Theresa May fucking things up on the imposition of her 'red lines', they were required in order to live up to those promises). The sensible way of delivering these would have been through a comprehensive free trade agreement, but between the Irish border non-issue and the idiotic 'frictionless trade' meme, that was sunk, and that leaves you with telling them to get fucked.

[Yevrah]

Either would give a fresh mandate for something more specific than 'Leave the European Union'. The 2016 referendum should really be cast aside now, because it is now apparent that simply 'Leave the European Union' is not sufficient as instruction to Parliament.

Have you been sniffing Liberal Democrat?

It's sufficient enough as you're ever going to get from something the public could ever be expected to vote on (they shouldn't have, I know) and both leave and remain knew what it meant at the time.

The problem comes in that the MPs are incapable of negotiating anything (not that the EU are interested in doing so either) and the vast majority of them don't actually want to leave. A general election won't change any of that as anybody remotely competent would touch it with a bargepole and nor will another referendum, because you can't put anything more than yes or no, or tick this box on a ballot, which won't be nuanced enough either.

[Jimmy Floyd]

At the very least you could put 'leave without a deal' to a binding referendum against whatever else they could bring themselves to vote onto the table, or even against itself as a yes/no.

[niko_cee]

No deal winning on a second referendum would break society. It's never getting anywhere near a ballot paper.

I was thinking yesterday, that in the context of the mankading in cricket, both the rules of cricket and the rules of British government struggle in the modern age of professionalism. The spirit of the game in Parliament should have seen May resign by now, possibly as far back as her catastrophic election campaign, but certainly after that initial sinking of MV1. Once you start going on the strict letter of the law it all falls apart.

The only way the UK is leaving is if the EU figure that their grand political project is better served without the noisy neighbour constantly being awkward (which is probably the case on a political level) but the economic damage would be problematic in an already ailing Eurozone.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I was in Portugal the last few days and they are already preparing the 'British only' fast track airport lines because they can't afford to lose a single Euro of our business.

[Spikey M]

Jacob Rees-Mong is ready to back Terry May's deal now. The sinister cunt.

[phonics]

I do lke this 'we said in our manifesto...' argument from the Torys. Lads, you haven't stuck to a single other thing in it so let's not get too het up about it eh?

[Ian]

I'm sure the populace would be shaken to the core if a politician turned out to have deceived them in some way.

[phonics]

Quite, I remember GS being very dogmatic (shocker) about it.

[phonics]

I've just seen a picture of Michael Fabricant for the first time. This fucking wig...

https://i.imgur.com/DjMTp31.png

[Spikey M]

He claims, unto the death, that it isn't a wig.

[phonics]

In which case I claim that Scarlett Johannson sucked me off and she's just being a prude about admitting it.

[phonics]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2qRBCGWsAEm09l.jpg

He mad.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Cummings emerging from his literal bunker, enraging all the right people, is always a highlight.

[Shindig]

If Article 13 means half of Phonics' tweets don't show up, I'm switching to Leave.

[phonics]

Labour are whipping for the second referendum one apparently and loads of people are going to resign. What a week.

[Lewis]

Deadly Dom, correct as ever. His blog has had some good stuff on recently.

[Shindig]

Okay, so second referendum gets called, they actually campaign this time and it still goes 52% in favour of Leave. That's my prediction. Maybe even a bigger margin of victory if they campaign on, "Our MPs can't figure this out." because some people like to fuck politicians over.

[phonics]

Remember the boring Brexit meeting I didn't want to go to that keeps getting cancelled? They're now advertising it on Spotify despite still not having any dates or information. Money well spent.

https://i.imgur.com/MSQvAFo.png

[Spikey M]

It's almost as if they have no idea what's going to happen.

[phonics]

Quite, I didn't need a Spotify ad to remind me it's a mess.

[Baz]

Get Premium u bum

[phonics]

They don't pay artists enough to get my tenner.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Agree with me and I'll fuck off.

What a fucking stance that is.

[Lewis]

They should really be getting her departure date in writing.

[phonics]

Jesus Christ, the ability of the Torys to put party over country is unrivalled. 'Agree to something you think will be bad for the country so I will stop damaging the party brand' is fucking madness.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Current Labour are far worse on that score. Far worse. They are literally not advocating anything in the hope it will all turn to shit and they will be well placed to pick up the pieces.

[phonics]

Current Labour are far worse on that score. Far worse. They are literally not advocating anything in the hope it will all turn to shit and they will be well placed to pick up the pieces.

Totally agreed. I would abstain if I was still allowed to vote in a GE for exactly said reason.

[Spikey M]

The lot of them are a fucking joke. Leave. Remain. All of them are a load of wanky game players.

[phonics]

Hence why Remain was the only option, you can't trust a modern politician to do anything properly so status quo it is.

[Shindig]

Nah, I don't advocate that. Not unless public sentiment for leaving has vanished for leaving. Leaving is a choice but the politicians are too keen on partisan bullshit to work together a solution.

[phonics]

Nah, I don't advocate that. Not unless public sentiment for leaving has vanished for leaving. Leaving is a choice but the politicians are too keen on partisan bullshit to work together a solution.

When it's a subject like the EU where so many people are annoyed at things that don't have anything to do with the EU. Good of the people > Will of the people.

[Lewis]

I was thinking last night that Steve Baker is the only good one left, and sure enough he has gone ape shit. Can I donate to whatever he does as a non-constituent? Obviously I can the DUP, since their constituency is the United Kingdom, but I feel both deserve my money.

[Giggles]

The huns say no, so is that back to square one then?

[Lewis]

Arlene's at the wheel. :cool:

[Boydy]

They've voted down all the options. FFS. :D

[Lewis]

Oliver Letwin back to his best, answering his critics.

[Giggles]

Could there not just be be a symbolic brexit at this stage, seeing as you want it but don't actually want it.

[Giggles]

Yeah, this actually.

1111021801461764104

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

What a fucking shambles.

Let's get some more votes.

[Yevrah]

They don't want Brexit, most of them have said as much previously.

I don't want to eat Nando's, so as a result you could put every conceivable option on their menu in front of me and I wouldn't choose any of it.

[Kikó]

So let's just revoke and deal with the shit.

[Lewis]

That Nando's thread brings back some memories. Namely you very nearly offering manc sean out.

[Yevrah]

I wouldn't want to question the oracle, but did I really do that?

I remember the thread, but can't recall that.

As an aside Lewis, how was WW2 paid for? Like covering mortgages etc.

[Shindig]

Aye, fuck it. The worry is it presents a precedent for not following through with a democratic vote. Like if Corbyn wins the next election and then he decides to promote Dianne Abbott to be PM.

[Kikó]

We don't vote for leaders in elections. (Not directly anyway)

[Yevrah]

And that happened with Brown taking over.

[mugbull]

A 2nd referendum would just result in another Leave, right?

[Kikó]

A 2nd referendum would just result in another Leave, right?

Polls saying it's around 60% remain now. But could be , who knows.

[Yevrah]

A 2nd referendum would just result in another Leave, right?

I'm not convinced it would, but if we have another one remain shouldn't even be on the ballot. We shouldn't have another one.

EDIT: We should never have another one again.

[Shindig]

Let's just have Theresa on a boat with a banner saying, "Mission Attempted." and call that a win.

[phonics]

Coming from Switzerland, doing referendums seems like a no-brainer but introducing them into a system that only gets 1 every 20 years I now see is an absolute recipe for disaster.

[Kikó]

A referendum can be fine if it is properly defined and with some idea of the outcome of the options proposed. Not the shit show Cameron festered on us in 2015. Shame on him.

[Yevrah]

Coming from Switzerland, doing referendums seems like a no-brainer but introducing them into a system that only gets 1 every 20 years I now see is an absolute recipe for disaster.

It's broken politics in England, so was probably the most short-sighted thing I've seen politically in my lifetime.

[Kikó]

It's a shame we have absolutely zero option to vote for in a general election considering the main parties are a complete shambles/disgrace.

Our voting system needs to move from FPTP.

[Lewis]

I wouldn't want to question the oracle, but did I really do that?

I remember the thread, but can't recall that.

As an aside Lewis, how was WW2 paid for? Like covering mortgages etc.

What, as in how did people pay them, or how did the government finance the conflict? People I don't really know. Not many owned their own homes, and banking and insurance carried on reasonably normally, so presumably rent got paid as normal until your landlord got bombed to bits. The government just borrowed every penny that wasn't taxed out of people (National Savings Movement etc.), as well as sponging off America.

[Yevrah]

It's a shame we have absolutely zero option to vote for in a general election considering the main parties are a complete shambles/disgrace.

Our voting system needs to move from FPTP.

It would make no difference. Why would anyone of any ability get involved in politics from here on in? You get abuse, death threats, a crap salary relative to what you could get elsewhere, and if you're really lucky, shot dead.

[Yevrah]

What, as in how did people pay them, or how did the government finance the conflict? People I don't really know. Not many owned their own homes, and banking and insurance carried on reasonably normally, so presumably rent got paid as normal until your landlord got bombed to bits. The government just borrowed every penny that wasn't taxed out of people (National Savings Movement etc.), as well as sponging off America.

Yeah, it was people I was thinking of. If I got called up tomorrow and am in a trench for the next 5 years, who is paying my mortgage? But I see you've answered that.

[Kikó]

It would make no difference. Why would anyone of any ability get involved in politics from here on in? You get abuse, death threats, a crap salary relative to what you could get elsewhere, and if you're really lucky, shot dead.

Absolutely. It's a complete shambles - Private Eye have been calling out the revolving door for years and it's just stop being covert. The complete shameless decision making for future personal gain is obvious in so many politicians these days. Or you've got complete idiots who seem to have forgotten how to have a critical thought.

[Boydy]

1110443949775298562

If you click into this and go through the thread there's some interesting figures on Leave/Remain polling.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2kbL9bX4AEq7n5.jpg

[Lewis]

That it's barely moved despite everything is pretty great. Not that it's really relevant, otherwise general elections should have a two year cooling off period as well.

[phonics]

The May-era summed up that even when she let's other people lead the way literally everyone loses.

[niko_cee]

A referendum can be fine if it is properly defined and with some idea of the outcome of the options proposed. Not the shit show Cameron festered on us in 2015. Shame on him.

Only applicable to one outcome.

Like the once in a generation one the scotch had and now want to re-have.

It's fine as long as the right choice is reached.

Really they should have had an AV system for their indicative votes tonight. Really stick it to the man.

[Shindig]

"Alright, let's take this 5th vote of the wording of the referendum ballot."

[Spikey M]

Fuck it, give the public a referendum on every option they've voted on today. Use PR rather than FPTP. The outcome is legally binding. No wriggle room.

[Yevrah]

Yanis on Question Time now.

[Lewis]

Is he doing his 'The European Union is evil so you must never leave' bit?

[Yevrah]

He hasn't spoken yet.

[Yevrah]

"This is a deal a nation signs only having been defeated at war"

:D

[Pepe]

Is he doing his 'The European Union is evil so you must never leave' bit?

:D

[Lewis]

Close enough. Go to 'Norway Plus', and then decide whether to re-join in 2025. Hopefully Greece has recovered by then.

[phonics]

That video of Gove running round in red short-shorts is enough to get me onboard for a political revolution.

The only thing keeping me going is that it's causing everyone involved with it absolute misery

1111405505417637888

[Shindig]

Well, they should've backed Angela Leadsom. Or Johnson should've ... like, stood. Or Gove. Or did they really not want the job either?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Rumours of a heel turn from the PLP to get the deal through, my word that would be funny. Seumas's head on a spike.

[phonics]

Rumours of a heel turn from the PLP to get the deal through, my word that would be funny. Seumas's head on a spike.

Apparently two MPs have been offered 100 million quid each in funding for their vote.

There's going to be 150 Lords added in the next few months if these sorts of rumours are true.

[Shindig]

It's a shame we can't revoke it but keep article 50 as a bargaining chip. Because we've seen what triggering it gets us. Unless we pull shapes behind the curtain to feasibly have an escape route from the EU.

[phonics]

What?

[Shindig]

I dunno, I'm throwing shit at the wall at this stage.

[Spikey M]

Every country has the ability to trigger Article 50, no?

[phonics]

The people who jumped ship recently have formed into an official party in case European Elections happen. They'll be called Change UK which sounds more like a freeview channel than a political party.

[Lewis]

Fivehead Raab letting himself down by the sounds of it. Bill Cash for leader.

[Byron]

I would have thought you preferred Francois.

[Lewis]

He is a bit of an idiot, so Raab was the best hope for taking the party in a Proper Brexit Man direction. He probably still is, but in that case why not just hold out against voting for this wank?

[phonics]

Big fan of the comeback of the word 'charlatan' now Boris has popped his head in.

[phonics]

Spoiler: May lost the vote.

[Gray Fox]

The circus rolls on.

[Yevrah]

Am I right that this means she couldn't even get half of her deal through?

If that's the case, even I now think she should quit.

The MPs themselves need to man the fuck up and admit that they're not remotely interested in leaving and that in all reality there will be no specific circumstances in which they'll actually vote to do so.

[phonics]

The only way to get it through would be to put all the directions they voted no on last week to referendum with ranked choice and it'd be a fucking catastrophe so you can't do that.

[Shindig]

Aye, it's dead in the water now. What'd be really fun is if we go the EU to revoke and then the EU members can't unilaterally agree it. :D

[phonics]

Setting up interviews with books clearly taken off your bookshelves to make you seem smart is enough to know Raab is straight in the bin

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D20FNhKWoAIVd33.jpg

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Aye.

I'm a calamity when it comes to storing books and even I don't have them like that.

[phonics]

How would you open and close the blinds without removing them?

[Lewis]

D-d-dup!

[Lewis]

Fucking capital letter rule. That should be the first thing to go when we CRASH OUT.

[Henry]

Worse than vermin, I tell you.

[Lewis]

This protest has a flute band. I could have been in Westminster today as well with a work thing. Fuck.

[Lewis]

lol at all the hand-wringing over poor old Dominic Grieve. I think people have genuinely taken it worse than all of the Labour constituency shenanigans.

[phonics]

I saw a story yesterday about how a group of tories have decided to label themselves 'One Nation'. After last weeks Grand Wizards outing, is there any group in this lot that haven't decided to get naming inspiration from a racist movement?

[Jimmy Floyd]

One Nation Toryism has been around for decades and is far better known than whatever that is.

[phonics]

I hear 'One Nation', I think of the Aussies.

[Lewis]

More than decades. It pre-dates Australia. Unfortunately, these days it just means Labour with (self-certified) claims to competence, so as the Labour Party pulls itself leftwards the Conservative fannies are bound to follow.

[phonics]

I know Americans make fun of the level of attractiveness that we allow on TV but come on now, that haircut is doing her absolutely no favours

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3FrFCsXkAAelYX.jpg:large

[mugbull]

That's a woman? She looks like John Oliver

[Spikey M]

Which one is the woman?

[niko_cee]

No to everything again.

:D/:face:

What's the deal with the (I guess) abstentions? Is that soft whipping from the government to keep junior party bods with an eye to their future inline or are an alarming proportion of MPs simply not interested in what is apparently a defining issue of our times?

[Lewis]

lol out loud at Nick Boles spitting his dummy, the absolute tosser.

[Spikey M]

What's Guy Fawkes up to these days?

Other than trolling on Twitter, obvs.

[phonics]

No to everything again.

:D/:face:

What's the deal with the (I guess) abstentions? Is that soft whipping from the government to keep junior party bods with an eye to their future inline or are an alarming proportion of MPs simply not interested in what is apparently a defining issue of our times?

While it is nice to think that it's political intrigue, I'm going to back cowardice.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The government are mad. What are they, 50 switchers short for their deal? They are 2 switchers short for a permanent customs union but now they want to go back to the deal. Mega-flaccid Brexit is the only way of delivering Brexit and may enrage the hardliners, but no Brexit and no deal Brexit would both enrage half the country.

[Spikey M]

It's self-defense and nothing else. For any politician, picking a side is a mugs game in this cluster fuck.

[niko_cee]

The government are mad. What are they, 50 switchers short for their deal? They are 2 switchers short for a permanent customs union but now they want to go back to the deal. Mega-flaccid Brexit is the only way of delivering Brexit and may enrage the hardliners, but no Brexit and no deal Brexit would both enrage half the country.

Aye, but it's a slightly farcical situation (or maybe not so slightly) when you've got the government getting more votes for their losing plan, than the one that is apparently going to replace it. There should be some sort of compulsory voting for these divs, what the fuck is abstaining all about? I get that you can spoil your ballot paper on an individual basis (although the effort to do so has always seemed a bit mad to me) but I don't see how you can do the same as a representative.

[Lewis]

Remaining in the customs union is literally the shittest possible way to not-really-leave the European Union. They know that though, so then they would start gingo 'Oh well, we need to join x, y, and z as well to get the full benefits of...', and then six years later they're yearning for a 'seat at the table' and we join the single currency as Cuntville.

[phonics]

I'm feeling really smug about my (if leave won) 'Everything will be exactly the same, we just won't have a seat at the table anymore' prediction is bang on all these years later

[Jimmy Floyd]

Aye, but it's a slightly farcical situation (or maybe not so slightly) when you've got the government getting more votes for their losing plan, than the one that is apparently going to replace it. There should be some sort of compulsory voting for these divs, what the fuck is abstaining all about? I get that you can spoil your ballot paper on an individual basis (although the effort to do so has always seemed a bit mad to me) but I don't see how you can do the same as a representative.

There might be some pairings, but 40 odd would be a lot.

[niko_cee]

The ridiculous thing is that much like May's Deal, all of these things they are talking about are literally what no one wants. No one who wants a customs union really wants to leave, and no one who wants to leave wants to be perpetually entwined within the framework of EU law. If there was another referendum then literally no one would be making the case for these things, but it's where things are heading until someone has the courage to propose the remain v no deal referendum needed to 'settle' this.

[niko_cee]

'Confirmatory' (wtf?) referendum: 572 votes
Customs Union: 549 votes
Common Market 2.0: 543 votes
'Parliamentary Supremacy' (again what the fuck?): 483 votes

Is that out of 625 (630)?

Something's not right.

[Jimmy Floyd]

5 Lib Dems abstained apparently, which seems mental, and there seems to have been quite a lot of Labour abstaining on the more 'progressive' stuff.

[Lewis]

The only thing left is to just leave. It wasn't 'Leave, provided...' By all means attempt to 'get the best possible deal', but if you can't, then we still have to leave. Otherwise we never will.

[bruhnaldo]

I know no one gives a fuck but I find this shit so enthralling now. It's like "The Will of the People vs. The Will of The Government" part 1418902481094, sure, but I'm dying to see how it plays out.

[niko_cee]

Whatever happens, the people, particularly the ones who voted to leave, probably lose.

[mugbull]

The only thing left is to just leave. It wasn't 'Leave, provided...' By all means attempt to 'get the best possible deal', but if you can't, then we still have to leave. Otherwise we never will.

:swing:

[Lewis]

How can they keep coming up with more moronic ways of approaching this? I know they really don't want to leave, but handing control of the process over to the people you've spent four years abusing as unfit to govern strikes me as something that will likely backfire on the Conservative Party.

[niko_cee]

Right, Jeremy, we really need to sort this to avoid leaving without a deal.

Well, Theresa, the thing is . . .

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've said all along that Seamus and Jeremy are bang up for no deal, and I bet they still are.

[Gray Fox]

He'll refuse to talk to her and we'll go round again for another turn.

[Yevrah]

How can they keep coming up with more moronic ways of approaching this? I know they really don't want to leave, but handing control of the process over to the people you've spent four years abusing as unfit to govern strikes me as something that will likely backfire on the Conservative Party.

I think she's doing it to show that her deal really is the only option. She knows full well that that idiot won't have the remotest clue of what to do.

[Ian]

I feel like Voting Against The Deal is going to become some weekly parliamentary ritual that lasts long after we're all dead and nobody can be arsed going on Wikipedia to remember what its origins are.

[Spikey M]

If they actually wanted an answer, they'd run the votes via STV.

[Giggles]

I've been mostly drunk since last Friday, has anything been done at all?

[Shindig]

Nah. Just move votes. If anything, May's defence of the her deal might point to the possibility setting trade deals with countries piecemeal hasn't gone down. Or other countries don't want to sign us on because they too think Brexit isn't happening?

Clusterfuck.

[phonics]

I'm starting to believe that with both sides cabinets voting against the whip of their respective parties and anonymously leaking the contents of literally every meeting they have with their leaders while refusing to resign. Should we just restart? Dissolve all political parties and start again?

Literally everyone has to run as an independent and then make alliances from there.

[Spikey M]

The next General Election is going to have a turnout of about 3%.

[niko_cee]

And they'll all vote for the Nigel Farage Party.

This all feels like its heading towards a terrible reckoning somewhere down the line.

What are they up to at the moment? Legislating to make 'no deal' impossible? So, if the EU reject a further extension the UK would be legally required to call the whole thing off? You can't leave without a deal, they won't agree a (the) deal, people aren't stupid.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Probably, they want it cancelled at this stage I think.

They would find a common ground if they didn't (or it might just be because they're all wankers).

[Spikey M]

They wanted it cancelled the day after the referendum.

[Magic]

Wouldn't take much for a Hitler type to gain huge popularity on the back of a NATIONAL BETRAYAL.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1113535651880869888

What a hero Gibb is.

[Giggles]

Wouldn't take much for a Hitler type to gain huge popularity on the back of a NATIONAL BETRAYAL.

One of the northy neanderthals would fit the bill perfectly seeing as being an Ulster loyalist is based around being a homophobic racist.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Tommy Robinson needs shooting by MI6 before it's too late.

[bruhnaldo]

I was literally just thinking this all ends in WW3 doesn't it

[Shindig]

No, it ends in a vote.

[Magic]

On a small, insignificant island, the assassination of populist psychopath MR X causes reverberations around the globe, resulting in the deaths of all white people.

[phonics]

Tommy Robinson needs shooting by MI6 before it's too late.

Quite, if he could wear a suit without looking like it's because he's got a court date, he'd have at least 35% of the country in a popular vote.

I know it's not the sole reason but I think there's a solid argument for YouTube being the downfall of the Western World if it does all go pear shaped.

[bruhnaldo]

Absolutely all of social media tbh

[Giggles]

Absolutely all of social media tbh

Don't you dare blame his beloved Twitter. If he says it's only YouTube it's only YouTube.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Don't you dare blame his beloved Twitter. If he says it's only YouTube it's only YouTube.

He'll be gone from Twitter if he insults Elon Musk once more.

[Jimmy Floyd]

A propos of nothing, this really wouldn't be a bad time for a military coup. I've always fancied one.

[bruhnaldo]

UK Civil War? :drool:

[bruhnaldo]

Oh fuck nevermind I just realized if there was such a war there'd be no Premier League for like 2 or 3 years and with all the McChickens I put into my fat face I'd really die with United in 6th fucking place.

ALTHOUGH if City somehow blow this and Liverpool get close to THE TITLE please God just fucking riot and don't let that shit happen.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Premier League would absolutely love a civil war, they could move it all to the US and Asia.

[Magic]

Oh lord remember that bald, retarded Mahow lookalike signed up to TTH called Mr. X?

[bruhnaldo]

The Premier League would absolutely love a civil war, they could move it all to the US and Asia.

Holy fuck MLS would become the biggest league in the world just like in every other worthwhile sport :drool:

Theresa May you're doing amazing sweetie xx

[phonics]

Don't you dare blame his beloved Twitter. If he says it's only YouTube it's only YouTube.

I don't think it's Twitter because;
1) The group think on Twitter, whether left/right or centre, is always phenomenally off the pulse of what actual people seem to care about/want if you go off polling/national sentiment. Twitter isn't real life.
2) You choose who to follow on Twitter and the only way you'll find out about someone else you might want to follow is someone you already follow RT'ing them into your world.

I blame YouTube because that 'Reccomended video' algorithm is an absolute monstrosity. I mainly use youtube to listen to music and watch videogame stuff and I still get 'Dave Rubin DESTROYS local feminazi' because nutters like Harold watch the shit out of them which makes it think that it's 'engaging content'. Would all the red pilled stuff exist without it do you think? Anti-vax, Flat Earthism etc. etc. are growing in popularity for some reason and it's not because there's doctors and scientists telling them it's true.

[bruhnaldo]

I mean I sorta think that if people want to believe something they'll go and search out affirmation regardless of algorithm, if that makes sense.

What I mean is nutters are always looking to coddled to in a sense, I don't think regular normal(ish) people like you and I see a suggestion for such a video and go "wow holy fuck it all makes sense because @SnowflakeSmasher86 has pointed out THE TRUTH!".

I also think 50% of those folks just want to feel "apart of something" and don't actually believe the bullshit they spew, sorta like your point about twitter where it's usually never close to what's really going on in the world.

Most of the internet is just people who have invented characters for themselves. Rarely do you get places like here where everyone except mert just kinda is their self.

[Spikey M]

I've bumped into enough batshit mental stuff on Twitter and Facebook, and it ain't because I'm signing up to FlatEarthAntiVaxJetFeulDoesn'tMeltSteelBeams shit.

[bruhnaldo]

What's that? An opening to post my favorite thing on the internet of all time?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/993/361/78a.jpg

FUCK that cracks me up man.

[Magic]

You can watch as much content as you like from either side but it is correct you will only side with and remember the ones that fit your bias. There's a lot of content now for whatever that may be, which only serves to double down on that.

[phonics]

I've bumped into enough batshit mental stuff on Twitter and Facebook, and it ain't because I'm signing up to FlatEarthAntiVaxJetFeulDoesn'tMeltSteelBeams shit.

I'm not saying it's a non-factor but it's a significantly smaller number. Facebook and YouTube have about 1 billion users per day. Twitter has 260 million.

[bruhnaldo]

This actually reminds me of a skit on the last 1975 album, which i did reference above



This is a story about a lonely, lonely man. He lived in a lonely house. On a lonely street. In a lonely part of the world. But, of course, he had the internet. The internet, as you know, was his friend — you could say, his best friend. They would play with each other every day, watching videos of humans doing all sorts of things: Having sex with each other; Informing people on what was wrong with them and their life; Playing games with young children at home with their parents

One day, the man — whose name was @SnowflakeSmasher86 — turned to his friend, the internet, and he said, “Internet, do you love me?”

The internet looked at him and said, “Yes. I love you very, very, very, very, very, very much. I am your best friend. In fact, I love you so much that I never, ever want us to be apart ever again ever’
‘I would like that,” said the man. And so they embarked on a life together. Wherever the man went, he took his friend. The man and the internet went everywhere together, except of course the places where the internet could not go. They went to the countryside. They went to birthday parties of the children of some of his less important friends. Different countries. Even the moon. When the man got sad, his friend had so many clever ways to make him feel better. He would get him cooked animals and show him the people having sex again, and he would always, always agree with him. This one was the man’s favorite, and it made him very happy. The man trusted his friend so much. “I feel like I could tell you anything,” he said, on a particularly lonely day

“You can. You can tell me anything. I’m your best friend. Anything you say to me will stay strictly between you and the internet.”

And so he did. The man shared everything with his friend: All of his fears and desires; All of his loves, past and present; All of the places he had been and was going, and pictures of his penis. He would tell himself, “Man does not live by bread alone.”

And then he died
In his lonely house
On the lonely street
In that lonely part of the world

You can go on his Facebook


But i think about this shit a lot because it's like ya, the internet is fucking nuts but at the end of the day these people are just going to randomly die and their weirdo fucking ideology will just stay on the internet and not in real life where it can actually hurt anyone.

For the most part, anyways.

[Spikey M]

You can watch as much content as you like from either side but it is correct you will only side with and remember the ones that fit your bias. There's a lot of content now for whatever that may be, which only serves to double down on that.

I don't watch 'content' from either side, because I don't need the opinion of some cretin telling me to 'SMASH the like button' - as a priority - in my life.

[Spikey M]

I'm not saying it's a non-factor but it's a significantly smaller number. Facebook and YouTube have about 1 billion users per day. Twitter has 260 million.

Fair. But I think it's all linked. The same numpties swallowing thisnshit on YouTube are sharing the shit all over Facebook and Twitter. Facebook in particular seems the most dangerous to me, because people you actually know are sharing this stuff.

[Magic]

I don't watch 'content' from either side, because I don't need the opinion of some cretin telling me to 'SMASH the like button' - as a priority - in my life.

No but you have some awareness of what is going on, right? That's delivered by a (probable) polarised source so you're already fucked.

[Lewis]

That Nick Boles tweet has got all the remain/pinko nutters out thinking the BBC is against them. As an aside, if he has left the Conservative Party, would he be open to a compromise where he sits elsewhere but still votes with, canvasses for, and pays membership fees to the Conservatives? Waste of space.

[Magic]

Christ Hammond looks like Richard Leonard.

[phonics]

Fair. But I think it's all linked. The same numpties swallowing thisnshit on YouTube are sharing the shit all over Facebook and Twitter. Facebook in particular seems the most dangerous to me, because people you actually know are sharing this stuff.

Once again, I don't think the sharing is the issue, algorithms dictating what you see based on what it thinks is engaging, which Facebook does fall into but Twitter doesn't (until that weird update about a month ago which is definitely going to go badly), is dangerous. It's the AI thought experiment where the conclusion is that the most efficient way to eradicate famine is to murder x% of the population. It's answer is correct but isn't right.

Interestingly this study: http://cnets.indiana.edu/groups/nan/truthy/visualizing-the-political-discourse-on-twitter/ (which happening in 2010 is a bit of out dated and is only the US)

concludes that the right will retweet their core messages a lot more than the left who will instead spend their time arguing in replies

and this one: www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/08/27/1804840115.full

has the takeaway that showing users opposing political viewpoints, in effect having less of an echo chamber, actually reinforces/polarizes those people more.

My summary? Twitter is millions of polarised people getting triggered everyday whereas FB/YouTube is millions of people on the edge being told the devil on their shoulder is the one telling the truth.

[phonics]

That Nick Boles tweet has got all the remain/pinko nutters out thinking the BBC is against them.

They already think that, look at any piece and you'll have @ProudToBeEnglish and his West Ham avatar and #FBPE Sally with a Lord Adonis quote in her bio in the mentions. Both claiming that Laura KeanuReavesberg is a MI5 Plant.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

A vote passed :drool:

[niko_cee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47808491


On Wednesday evening, Sir Jeffrey told BBC Newsline: "We would have preferred a form of Brexit that enables the UK to negotiate new trade agreements with other countries.

"That's part of the reason for Brexit and maybe a customs union might be a temporary staging post towards that objective.

Sounds an awful lot like the dreaded BACKSTOP.

:cab:

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've spent 20 minutes trying to find out what 'Letwin-Cooper' is or does (including by reading the actual bill itself) and am still none the wiser. Still, the bullied-at-school No Deal crowd seem to hate it so I guess it's a good thing.

[bruhnaldo]

I see the threat of a strong MLS finally got your lot to do something

[Giggles]

What's all this about May and Corbyn working to get a new deal? Or the huns looking for alternatives? The deal has been done and presumably whatever they come up with won't be just agreed by the EU just because they've decided. The days of rocking up with a few cannons are over and doing as you're bid has begun. Until you're out anyway at least.

[Yevrah]

If ever there was a room the people within which epitomised "no fucking clue what to do now", it was the one that housed the meeting between May and Corbyn.

[niko_cee]

What's all this about May and Corbyn working to get a new deal? Or the huns looking for alternatives? The deal has been done and presumably whatever they come up with won't be just agreed by the EU just because they've decided. The days of rocking up with a few cannons are over and doing as you're bid has begun. Until you're out anyway at least.

They (although who 'they' are is perhaps not really clear) want to alter the political declaration to move towards not really leaving (EEA/EFTA style arrangement), so it's not something that is going to be a problem for the EU. The main problem with it will be binding future UK governments to it, so they'll probably need a long extension to get it into a Treaty-form. As it stands they could alter the political declaration, and even try to bind the UK government to it through UK law, but a new/differently constituted and led government could just change that themselves if they were so minded.

[Giggles]

They (although who 'they' are is perhaps not really clear) want to alter the political declaration to move towards not really leaving (EEA/EFTA style arrangement), so it's not something that is going to be a problem for the EU. The main problem with it will be binding future UK governments to it, so they'll probably need a long extension to get it into a Treaty-form. As it stands they could alter the political declaration, and even try to bind the UK government to it through UK law, but a new/differently constituted and led government could just change that themselves if they were so minded.

They, in the above, are the United Kingdom. Or to be more specific, those who run it.

[niko_cee]

Yeah, what I meant was that it is not entirely clear if either May or Corbyn are actually in that group, either in terms of wanting the softer option, or being in the one running things.

[igor_balis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYBmDZ_grKY

[Giggles]

Yeah, what I meant was that it is not entirely clear if either May or Corbyn are actually in that group, either in terms of wanting the softer option, or being in the one running things.

It's more all these attempts at "coming up with a better deal". You've got your deal so it's that or none, so what's the timewasting about?

[Lewis]

I liked the idea of giving all the devolved assemblies a veto over us leaving any customs union they manage to bounce us into. Yes, because that will strengthen 'Our Precious Union', won't it, baking in massive power disparities deliberately designed to frustrate England.