UK General Election 2017 - 8 June

[Jimmy Floyd]

I couldn't vote Tory with that lunatic in charge. Would be a Jez landslide.

[Boydy]

Your Chris Eubank dream sounds better.

[GS]

There's no chance.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hopefully 'dozens' just means Philip Davies using 25 different email addresses.

Both UKIP and the Tory headbangers have made a terrible mistake since Brexit in thinking that the referendum result had even 1% to do with them. Farage definitely lost votes for Leave, imo.

[Kikó]

There's no chance.

You're right.

More chance Sol Campbell.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I was a bit concerned she was going to gazump Theresa May had there been a contest last summer, in which case we'd really be in the brown stuff by now.

[Henry]

What's so bad about her again?

[phonics]

She's the mental one that thinks homeopathy is real, no?

Ah no, she was the god botherer.

[Spikey M]

So does the head of the NHS though...

[phonics]

Yeah and he's a giant prick that everyone hates.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Leadsom is like a shit American who doesn't understand British politics trying to play Thatcher in a TV drama.

[Spikey M]

Yeah and he's a giant prick that everyone hates.

Absolutely, but if you can believe in something that is less than Snake Oil and be responsible for the countries health, then it's clearly no barrier to entry.

[Lewis]

And-re-a Lead-som has a chant friendly name, which matters now. None of the others do, so you're stuck with her and Patrick McLoughlin.

'Ooh, Dom-i-nic Cumm-ings.'

[phonics]

'He's got a magic blog...'

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh, Th'resa May is magic, she's got some magic shoes
And when she saw the Corbyn, she said 'You're going to lose'
She donned him at the hustings
She donned him on TV
And when she lost seats anyway she called the DUP

THERESA
THERESA
THERESA

[Jimmy Floyd]

She didn't need to don Jeremy today because he's donned himself. The greatest political comeback since Lazarus starts here.

[GS]

Pro-EU Labour supporters seem to be shocked that he's not only whipped them to abstain, but then sacked front bench rebels. Outstanding.

When you think about it, there's no way his current 'coalition' can survive live fire - how do you keep the voting blocs of Canterbury, Kensington, Stoke and Doncaster all on-side when they wanted the complete opposite outcome on the main topic of the day?

Then again, by the time of the election it's probably a done issue so perhaps it won't matter and they'll all vote Labour because austerity, mate.

[Lewis]

You simply appease Canterbury on the assumption that Doncaster would vote for a paedophile in a red rosette.

[GS]

That's probably a bit harsh on Ed Miliband, but he's probably the most dangerous politician in Britain given everything he touches turns to absolute shit.

[GS]

880543114716434432

Chuka? Vain? I won't believe it.

[Shindig]

Why would they encourage Leadsom to have another crack at something she failed miserably at? She's already played the PARENT card.

[Jimmy Floyd]

51 of them voted for it. That's like 1/5 of the parliamentary party. Probably just the Blair bitter enders, but still, sort it out Jezza.

[Mellberg]

Tories presuming Brexit was the centre of the political debate again :harold:

Maybe in Chipping Norton, Jim.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The vote movements at the election suggest that it very much is.

Tories gained Mansfield and lost Canterbury. Tories are now the Brexit Party, Labour are the 'other party', others all irrelevant. Labour's vote more middle class (on average) than it has been for generations.

[GS]

880571660067385346

There are plenty of others like this. It's fucking hilarious. It's almost as if they didn't read the manifesto.

Interestingly, Lady Hermon voted for the Queen's Speech yesterday. That could be because of the money for NI which the DUP have got as part of the deal, or because she can't stand Corbyn et al. Hard to know at this stage, but it's probably a loss for the coalition of CHAOS.

[Lewis]

Who was it who compared Jezza to 'The Donald' in that people just project their own shit visions of him onto him? He was a Eurosceptic forever and pretty much threw the referendum; but mate he makes his own jam he can't possibly be in league with Nigel Gove (see also: all of the terrorism stuff).

[GS]

https://reaction.life/living-consequences-tony-blairs-constitutional-vandalism/

This is quite decent on the state of some of the Blairist constitutional 'reforms' - or 'complete fuck-ups' if you prefer.

[Lewis]

https://s11.postimg.org/k9mc6vb9f/DDp_Ilst_XYAI3_Wjx.jpg

Sinister.

[GS]

It looks like something the Nazis would have done.

/controversial opinions you may have

[Boydy]

Who is it?

[Lewis]

Helmut Kohl.

[Spikey M]

It looks like something the Nazis would have done.

/controversial opinions you may have

That's properly Soviet if anything. Can't let a dig at the left slide like that Fletch.

[GS]

Perhaps, but there's some rather obvious precedent when it comes to trying to establish European unity with German leadership.

An unfair assessment might be that they're just using the EU as a vehicle to establish the German-dominated Europe that they couldn't when they had the Wehrmacht. Which is fine, but I'd rather let them subjugate the rest of the continent with French acquiescence without us getting involved.

[Adamski]

Would you class yourself as interesting, GS?

[Disco]

I find it hard to believe that the German people as a whole have been steepling their fingers for 70 years just waiting for another opportunity to subjugate great swathes of Europe.

[Haystacks Horace]

I find it hard to believe that the German people as a whole have been steepling their fingers for 70 years just waiting for another opportunity to subjugate great swathes of Europe.

Of course they have, the Germans are a warlike race. Don't let 70 years of peace mask 2000 years of bloodshed.

[Boydy]

Would you class yourself as interesting, GS?
:D

[Disco]

Of course they have, the Germans are a warlike race. Don't let 70 years of peace mask 2000 years of bloodshed.

Piss off Harold, no-one's impressed.

[Spikey M]

I am tbf

[GS]

One of the reasons that we abolished Prussia was because their militarism kept trying to take over Europe. He's not wrong.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Prior to Bismarck they were a load of flower-picking, nursery rhyme-writing soft nonces.

[Lewis]

Frederick the Great was the greatest military leader of all time.

[Disco]

Whereas we just took over half the rest of the world, which is obviously different.

[Lewis]

Thanks in part to him doing all the actual graft during the Seven Years War before we sold him out.

'Fred screwed Fred!'

[Byron]

Whereas we just took over half the rest of the world, which is obviously different.

Wall of text from GS in 3......2.....1.....

[Henry]

The new opinion poll puts both Labour and Corbyn comfortably ahead of the Tories and May. That is all.

[GS]

Wall of text from GS in 3......2.....1.....

What did the Romans ever do for us?


The new opinion poll puts both Labour and Corbyn comfortably ahead of the Tories and May. That is all.

False.

Survation, who were the only pollster to call the election correctly, have Labour's SURGE retreating and the Tories now one point ahead.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Michael Gove calling for the public sector pay cap to be lifted is top, top trolling.

[GS]

Some of these Labour shadow ministers are absolutely dreadful. Richard Burgon is on SP and he's advocated about four mutually exclusive positions on Brexit.

[Henry]

http://opinium.co.uk/political-polling-27th-june-2017/

Not false.

[GS]

False, unless you're picking one opinion poll (from a somewhat discredited pollster) which fits the NARRATIVE.

At present, Survation represents the 'gold standard' having actually got the election right.

Not that polling is evidence of anything, obviously.

[phonics]

Not that polling is evidence of anything, obviously.

Wait, what?

[GS]

Please explain what's confused you now.

[Henry]

False, unless you're picking one opinion poll

That's why I said "the new opinion poll". You'll want to check that reading comprehension.

[GS]

That's why I said "the new opinion poll". You'll want to check that reading comprehension.

:rolleyes:

Suggesting that there was only one, which just so happens to fit the NARRATIVE.

On the same point, I saw Wor Jez talking bollocks about disadvantaged people's university access yesterday. It appears the Trumpian playbook of talking bollocks whilst your supporters shamelessly pile in to support it is now being applied here.

[phonics]

Please explain what's confused you now.

'Man who spends 4 years quoting every poll on every day, says polls are worthless'

I'm just glad you've come round to the Phonics/Pepe 'polls are shit' side and they don't have to clog up this thread anymore.

[GS]

They're worthwhile for identifying trends and where things, broadly, sit. They're also useful because they tend to direct public opinion / campaigns.

However, they must be considered in their proper context. It's clear the weighing applied by these companies isn't right, and that means you can't do anything other than look for trend. If you expect a poll to translate into actual votes (as Henry naively suggests) then you're going to be disappointed.

[Henry]

I made no such suggestion. You're resorting to make-believe here.

[Magic]

They're worthwhile for identifying trends and where things, broadly, sit. They're also useful because they tend to direct public opinion / campaigns.

However, they must be considered in their proper context. It's clear the weighing applied by these companies isn't right, and that means you can't do anything other than look for trend. If you expect a poll to translate into actual votes (as Henry naively suggests) then you're going to be disappointed.

You're so out of touch. I predicted the labour victory whilst you were saying biggest majority ever. If you want accurate opinion look no further than me.

[Kikó]

Look gs is right and you're an idiot.

[GS]

Straight out of the Trump playbook from Henry, there.

The populist similarities between Trump and Corbyn are probably going to become even more obvious over the next while, actually. Just straight out lie to your base and then incite them to violence to overturn things you don't like.

[Henry]

Oh dear.

[GS]

You obviously missed him lying to his latest rally of nut jobs yesterday.

[Henry]

I did indeed miss it. But with your posts becoming more and more unhinged from reality, I'm not inclined to believe you. Do LYING TORIES bother you as much?

[GS]

He's still peddling the bollocks about "fewer working class people" going into university because of the "debt burden", even though it's untrue. Still, if he's prepared to pay an eleven figure sum to secure their vote and they're stupid enough to buy it then so be it. It would be a massive transfer of wealth from poor to rich, but I suppose that doesn't matter either because austerity, mate.

On your latter point, I don't profess any huge admiration for the Conservatives. They're merely the least worst option, and considerably better than the reds. Should I start identifying Theresa May as a political hero - in the way that you've identified Jez (LOL) - then we can revisit it. As it is, your "political hero" is openly lying to his base and attending rallies designed to force the government out despite there being an election not one month ago. It's risible behaviour, and will only continue whilst his supporters pile in with shameless support.

Much like his support for the terrorists, which I'll kept citing until the day he resigns.

[Henry]

You voted for the DUP.

[GS]

You voted for the DUP.

On the binary issue of the union and with considerable distaste, yes. Once I start identifying Arlene Foster as a political hero and not merely the least worst of a very bad list, we can revisit the topic. None of this provides equivalence to your love for the terrorist supporting Jeremy Corbyn, who would presumably have supported Arlene Foster getting taken out by that IRA bomb on her school bus if it advanced the cause of a united Ireland.

[Henry]

I'll revisit the topic any time I like, thanks.

[Lewis]

Michael Gove calling for the public sector pay cap to be lifted is top, top trolling.

Unless I eventually see him on a destroyer blowing foreign fisherman to foreign fisherman hell then Brexit is a lie.

[GS]

Kinder, gentler politics.

http://res.cloudinary.com/jpress/image/fetch/w_700,f_auto,ar_3:2,c_fill/http://www.newsletter.co.uk/webimage/1.7008754.1444758116!/image/3361063.jpg

[Shindig]

I mean, the sentiment's nice. Plus he could play the, "That was ages ago." defence that got Trump off with the pussy grabs.

[Henry]

"Black gang jeer Diana at cinema"

That's some quality reporting.

[GS]

881974162021076992

Thank fuck for that.

It's a shame Spreadsheet Phil has the charisma of a wooden door, really.

[Boydy]

881887586427457536

lol

[Haystacks Horace]

GS and Henry seem ever so dull.

[GS]

881887586427457536

lol

I'll give them the Irish Language Act if they stop pretending there's no 'hierarchy of victims'.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm trying to work out why Boris/Gove are breaking ranks at this point. If they bring the thing down then Dave Spart gets the keys.

[Lewis]

I would like to see a compromise where x amount of state workers are sacked to cover the rest getting more money.

[GS]

I'm trying to work out why Boris/Gove are breaking ranks at this point. If they bring the thing down then Dave Spart gets the keys.

I assume it's because Downing Street have basically given up on imposing discipline. The first that Theresa May knew about Andrea Leadsom turning up at Grenfell was when she saw it on the news.

[GS]

I would like to see a compromise where x amount of state workers are sacked to cover the rest getting more money.

Better yet, have a referendum where the franchise is limited to private sector workers and ask them if they're prepared to accept an increase of two pence in the pound on their income tax to pay for it.

I suspect you'd be looking at a heavy defeat, probably somewhere in the region of 75-25 in favour of "absolutely no fucking chance".

[Boydy]

'the state of that'

[GS]

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_medium/public/thumbnails/image/2017/03/18/16/cr2.jpg

That's from four months ago. Watch what happens if taxes actually go up.

[Lewis]

At least we've moved on from the days of people wanting to tax companies according to turnover.

[Haystacks Horace]

50% inheritance tax on everything over £1 million please.

[GS]

At least we've moved on from the days of people wanting to tax companies according to turnover.

That was a genuine low, that.

[Yevrah]

I'd forgotten about that. :D

Did anyone who really should know better actually suggest it?

[Lewis]

I couldn't remember who said what (it was all about Amazon and Starbucks wasn't it?), but searching 'miliband amazon' has revealed these bargains (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Miliband-180cm-Lifesize-Cardboard-Cutout/dp/B00HR1BOQO).

[Disco]

Why would you get that when this bad boy is on offer https://www.amazon.co.uk/CUTOUTS-Ainsley-Harriott-Cardboard-Multi-Colour/dp/B01N9HGNWT/ref=pd_day0_201_4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=BKY6VCM1XYFRX9PMATYB

[Lewis]

Maybe some people are racists.

[GS]

I couldn't remember who said what (it was all about Amazon and Starbucks wasn't it?), but searching 'miliband amazon' has revealed these bargains (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Miliband-180cm-Lifesize-Cardboard-Cutout/dp/B00HR1BOQO).

That or the Panama Papers. I think it was around the same time that Jez was calling for us to unilaterally impose direct rule on the overseas territories because we didn't like their tax regimes, as if this was somehow an acceptable course of action.

[Lewis]

Oh yeah. The imperialist bastard.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've still got a Margaret Thatcher candle somewhere. Maybe if I light it she'll appear like a genie and save us all.

[GS]

Oh yeah. The imperialist bastard.

We can use the new aircraft carrier to impose our will, given he thinks violence is fine if it's advancing a political goal he happens to like.

[Lewis]

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 1m1 minute ago
"The UK should take direct control of its overseas territories that might be used as tax havens":
Agree: 72%
Disagree: 11%
(via ComRes)

Outstanding.

From the thread. We should have seen last month coming really.

[GS]

72%. :D

Fucking hell.

[Haystacks Horace]

72%. :D

Fucking hell.

What a shame everyone isn't as intelligent and knowledgeable as you. Patronising wanker. #horacing #notsorry #neverhoraceahoracer

[niko_cee]

You can take our low value consignment relief, but you'll never take our freedom!

[Jimmy Floyd]

Interesting how income tax is the one people want nailed. Probably because they know what it is.

[GS]

Partly, but you only have to look at the reaction to increasing NIC for the self employed. Perfectly sensible and fair policy, OUTRAGE ensures and they have to back track.

If Hammond does increase it by 1p across the board the discussion will very quickly become "but why can't you just knock it up by 5p on everything over X instead?" and a "tax on hard working families".

You can see from that the only ones that have good support are those where people are confident it won't affect them, and the ones where people are violently opposed are where they'll definitely get hit.

[phonics]

Didn't the OUTRAGE ensue because the MANIFESTO that you say must be adhered to at all costs, said they wouldn't raise that specific tax?

[GS]

It didn't explicitly say they wouldn't raise Class 4, as I recall. It was used as a convenient way out for people who didn't want to defend voting for a tax increase.

Additionally, it was framed as an attack on aspiration and hard work. Even though the original discrepancy that gave rise to different levels has now been addressed.

[phonics]

It didn't explicitly say they wouldn't raise Class 4, as I recall. It was used as a convenient way out for people who didn't want to defend voting for a tax increase.

Additionally, it was framed as an attack on aspiration and hard work. Even though the original discrepancy that gave rise to different levels has now been addressed.

http://i.imgur.com/qXeROzU.png

Seems pretty explicit to me.

[Lewis]

David who?

[phonics]

I thought it was about the party not the person leading it?

[GS]

The legislation they passed in 2015 (NIC Insurance Contributions Act) locked it for Class 1, but made no mention of Classes 2 or 4.

They'd have got it through if they'd wanted to, given they were aligning pension benefits for Class 4 earners and protected lower earners. They weren't prepared to have the argument though, because tax is evil.

[phonics]

Sounds like the Conservative Party are a bit of a coalition of chaos imo.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They are, although Chuka Umunna also appears to be launching his bid for the London Smarmy Cunts Party breakaway with fairly absurd timing.

[phonics]

Wouldn't be the left if there wasn't constant infighting when you're at your strongest.

[Lewis]

Speaking of which, lol at everybody jumping on Deadly Dominic Cummings.


Cummings, who ran a campaign that included the slogans “Britain’s new border is with Syria and Iraq” and “Let’s give our NHS the £350million the EU takes every week”, tried to use quantum mechanics as justification for his comments.

Get with it lads.

[phonics]

The two people running for Theresa Mays Comms Director are two BBC heads. Bloody lefty BBC.

[phonics]

Speaking of which, lol at everybody jumping on Deadly Dominic Cummings.



Get with it lads.

Who is David Allen Green and why is he always on my timeline?

[Lewis]

Legal Twitter must be the most self-important Twitter.

[phonics]

I'm 90% sure that Secret Barrister bloke isn't even a lawyer.

@2dammuslim is the only good lawyer on Twitter.

[GS]

Gentlemen.

880682219915927553

[niko_cee]

Isn't "see all Orange bands get golden flutes" a bit sectarian (if we're being hypersensitive, as is the fashion of the day)?

Not a bad effort, mind.

[GS]

Probably, but only our resident communists are fully paid up members of Generation Snowflake and they all wanted the IRA to win anyway.

[GS]

Speaking of which, lol at everybody jumping on Deadly Dominic Cummings.



Get with it lads.

882359843142733824

:harold:

He's probably still SEETHING over Deadly Dom's take on him:

TV news dominates politics and is extremely low-bandwidth: it contains a few hundred words and rarely uses graphics properly. Evan Davis illustrates a comment about ‘going down the plughole’ with a picture of water down a plughole and Nick Robinson illustrates a comment about ‘the economy taking off’ with a picture of a plane taking off. The constant flow of bullshit from the likes of Robert Peston and Jon Snow dominates the medium because competition has been impossible until recently. BUT, although technology is making these charlatans less relevant (good) it also creates new problems and will not necessarily improve the culture.

[Lewis]

The actual full exchange doesn't tell you anything anybody paying attention wouldn't have already known about him and his position[s], so everyone chimping out over an isolated tweet proves his point.

[ItalAussie]

Wouldn't be the left if there wasn't constant infighting when you're at your strongest.

If there's one thing the right have usually managed to grasp, it's who their real enemies are. The left could learn from that.

(Of course, in recent months...)

[Jimmy Floyd]

Speaking of which, lol at everybody jumping on Deadly Dominic Cummings.

Get with it lads.

It's taken them about six weeks to notice that, and even then only via the usual wankers retweeting articles that they clearly haven't read at each other.

Who is 'Tim Walker' by the way? FT? I've had to mute his twitter due to extreme smugness that everyone keeps retweeting into my timeline.

[Lewis]

I think that paper is run by Chris Giles and then one bloke pretending to be a dozen other people at once.

[phonics]

882555807526776833

:drool:

[GS]

Deficit hawking from May, there. You'd think they could have got stuck into that in the campaign to expose Jez's economic insanity.

[Henry]

Well, if we're following Nuremberg precedents, that will mean that Blair will have to be hanged.

[Lewis]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4655300/Left-wing-Jeremy-Corbyn-blogger-successful-firm-boss.html

I love this sort of thing.

[GS]

882679402630447104

Not a cult.

[Reg]

That's not on. By all means write a letter / talk to your MP and express your views, but that can't go on really.

[GS]

It'll be mandatory reselections next, and then they're all completely fucked.

[Boydy]

God forbid the members of the constituency party have someone who represents them!

It's bang on. Bring on the reselections. It's the members' party, not the party of fucking careerist technocrats.

[Lewis]

True.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hang on, is it in the Liverpool Echo's official style guide to put S*n instead of Sun?

[Reg]

Can see Boydy's point.

[Lewis]

That would be rather mawkish of them. One for Gaseous Yev here: Martin Lewis explains student loans (https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/882580965641637888), and nobody understands. It must be the worst explained thing since the Berlin Wall came down by accident.

[Yevrah]

Those replies are absolutely brilliant. I've just scan read through about a 100 and not a single cunt responding can follow the simple example he's used or understand the point he's making.

[Lewis]

The best one is 'I've read this. Sadly Martin i don't agree'. Okay mate.

[Raoul Duke]

Wow, there are a lot of simpletons out there. Not least ignoring the fact that the value of a uni degree (and therefore the jobs you can apply for) should cover the repayments and then some. Interest is minimal on it too.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not on his current numbers, tbh. But then David Davis has good numbers and he is fucking awful.

They probably need to bring in a youngster really.

[GS]

The lack of understanding of the fee system is quite scary.

It's compounded by politicians shamelessly leveraging it as a campaign issue.

You can half forgive the Lib Dems in 2010, but there's years of data now showing that it works so there's no excuse in 2017. They're either thick or just outright lying about it.

[Henry]

I understand the student loan system. I still don't like it and think it should be free.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The sad truth about having nice things for free is that there will have to be enormous tax rises for everyone to pay for them.

[Spikey M]

Just borrow more innit

[Henry]

The sad truth about having nice things for free is that there will have to be enormous tax rises for everyone to pay for them.

Possibly some rises for some people, but there are also probably too many people in higher education doing half-assed shite. Cut that down and it becomes more affordable.

[Spikey M]

Yeah, rather than have people paying their own way we should make it free then ban people from doing things we disagree with.

Fuck that noise.

[Henry]

Yeah, rather than have people paying their own way we should make it free then ban people from doing things we disagree with.

Fuck that noise.

You don't ban anything. You make the academic criteria higher. 40% of people going to university is too many.

[Spikey M]

You don't ban anything. You make the academic criteria higher. 40% of people going to university is too many.

Why is it? If Jonnie Commoner wants to study Art in Popular Culture what's it to you? Why should Jonnie not get the opportunity to take out a loan to pursue it?

[phonics]

It's more the courses that give you a B.A. in David Beckham that are the issue there.

[Henry]

Why is it? If Jonnie Commoner wants to study Art in Popular Culture what's it to you? Why should Jonnie not get the opportunity to take out a loan to pursue it?

I'm not sure if Art in Popular Culture is what I'm talking about but if he wants to study some other old shite and can find someone to teach it, then I suppose he can, through a bank or some such. The state shouldn't be involved in that.

40% is too high because people are only going because they can, they're doing fuck all work and nobody gets any benefit from their qualification.

[Spikey M]

So those with top grades (rich people, mostly) get free education, people with lesser grades (poor people) get to take out a bank loan? Sounds great.

[GS]

Henry wanting to give what is effectively an electoral bung to Russell Group graduates is laughable.

The inevitable consequence would be a drastic reduction in access for poor people, who therefore find it harder to get into better paying jobs. It's one of the most regressive things you could do.

[Kikó]

Poor (er) people get good grades as well. :(

[GS]

Poor (er) people get good grades as well. :(

Yep, but it's inevitably more difficult when places are cut and grades rise further owing to lack of supply.

[Spikey M]

Poor (er) people get good grades as well. :(

Less often, with less help to do so.

[Henry]

So those with top grades (rich people, mostly) get free education, people with lesser grades (poor people) get to take out a bank loan? Sounds great.

People with poor grades have no business at university, and if it's the rich who are getting top grades (which it isn't, at least not exclusively) then that's a seperate issue to be tackled, which isn't solved by having people study David Beckham or pie eating with philosophy.

[Kikó]

I sort of get where Henry's coming from though. But then you're probably entering the realm of privatising education so that companies can train their future employees in box filling.

Although, places like Toyota believe it's all about education and bring people through their firm with years and years of on the job education and development so there probably is a balance.

[Spikey M]

People with poor grades have no business at university, and if it's the rich who are getting top grades (which it isn't, at least not exclusively) then that's a seperate issue to be tackled, which isn't solved by having people study David Beckham or pie eating with philosophy.

The fact remains that people from poorer backgrounds that do well, do so in spite of terrible schools. Children from Rich backgrounds have smaller classes, better teachers and better facilities. How does your model address this?

[Henry]

The fact remains that people from poorer backgrounds that do well, do so in spite of terrible schools. Children from Rich backgrounds have smaller classes, better teachers and better facilities. How does your model address this?

It doesn't, since you don't address shit primary and secondary level education at the third level. How do you suggest those things are fixed?

[GS]

You could start be using the £11bn you want to spend on scraping tuition fees on early primary education, before the ability between rich and poor kids becomes pronounced. You do literally nothing for disadvantaged students by scrapping fees.

It would, however, not be as electorally advantageous.

[Spikey M]

It doesn't, since you don't address shit primary and secondary level education at the third level. How do you suggest those things are fixed?

By investing in them, rather than leaving them as a shower of shite and making higher education unobtainable.

[Henry]

By investing in them, rather than leaving them as a shower of shite and making higher education unobtainable.

I didn't advocate leaving them as they were, we just weren't talking about them. The government can do more than one thing at a time you know.

[GS]

Only if you pay no attention whatsoever to how you pay for it.

[Spikey M]

I didn't advocate leaving them as they were, we just weren't talking about them. The government can do more than one thing at a time you know.

I brought up the difference in education standards in my first post on the subject, and several since.

[Henry]

I brought up the difference in education standards in my first post on the subject, and several since.

Not that I can see.

Anyway, I'm interested in how we can reform the existing system without just throwing money at it too. Are rich people simply paying for better primary education, or is there some rebalancing the state can do there?

[Spikey M]

The best options I can see are:

1) Stop organising schools by postcode. I have no idea how you work it, but each school should have classes of varied backgrounds.

2) Do away with private schools (I don't like this option).

[Jimmy Floyd]

Both of those options involve some sort of Soviet-style figure going around dragging rich children from their homes screaming NO YOU WILL SIT WITH THE POOR CHILDREN AND YOU WILL LIKE IT.

[Henry]

I also don't like private schools, particularly the degree of leeway they have in putting religious shite on their curriculums.

[Reg]

The BBC politics chief has left to go and work for Theresa May. But the BBC definitely wasn't biased.

[Lewis]

Pinko BBC to pinko Downing Street seems an obvious career path.

[GS]

You'd have to be a moron to think that someone can't produce impartial broadcasting whilst having their own political view.

[Reg]

I don't think that. I think the BBC was biased during this campaign and therefore this news is no surprise. Kudos for going a handful of posts without starting one off with 'you'd have to be a moron/idiot', though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The BBC attracts such bile from both loony right and loony left for being biased that the only conclusion is that is simply is not biased.

[GS]

In what way were the BBC biased in this campaign?

If your point revolves around Wor Jez, Question Time, and the IRA then don't bother.

[Lewis]

It clearly does lean towards a particular middle class wanker outlook as a result of only employing people with that outlook.

[GS]

Some of its output has a slant, but then the RULES are such that they can't get away with anything overly pronounced and certainly not the sort of shite that Peston posts on Twitter.

I don't watch Newsnight, admittedly, but its campaign coverage on Marr, Daily/Sunday Politics, the Brillo interviews and the QT Specials all seemed perfectly fair and reasonable.

To be quite blunt, the Corbyn Cult element are just seething that the BBC had the temerity to, you know, report the attempted coups against him. They're demanding apologies - apologies, for fuck sake - for saying the Dear Leader isn't very good and then asking for statements of loyalty that nobody would believe. It's the sort of thing that Stalin would have had you do before you were taken to the gulag.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

The BBC attracts such bile from both loony right and loony left for being biased that the only conclusion is that is simply is not biased.

The reactions to any Question Time panel are always a good example.

[Boydy]

Anyone seen any polls this evening?

[Lewis]

Polls are shit mate.

[GS]

We won't need polls once the reds establish the one party state they're after.

[GS]

This public sector pay 'row' really is starting to grind the gears.

[Yevrah]

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that we shouldn't be leaving the EU.

Hypothetically we still absolutely should be, but our government is clearly incapable of delivering the exit properly.

[Shindig]

I've never been convinced anyone in government really wanted it.

[Lewis]

We won't get any sort of 'deal' (a word which the crank in me thinks is used to sound deliberately shifty and Trump-like) out of them other than something on our respective migrant populations, so my Rhodesia Option looks more attractive by the day. Clean, easy. Cut their fucking legs off.

[GS]

I don't disagree they're making a massive fuck up of the whole thing. We have absolutely terrible politicians these days - lightweight in the extreme. If this was May 1940, we'd be required to surrender to the Nazis simply because they'd be too incapable of putting together a plan to carry on.

That said, there's no way we should be doing anything other than getting out as quickly as we possibly can. Fuck them. I was all for the balls out option of simply repealing the legislation and leaving immediately, and telling them to go and fuck themselves over the 'so-called' exit bill.

[Yevrah]

A student loan question. :sick:

[Jimmy Floyd]

I reckon we won't leave.

JRM is probably the best media performer the Tories have currently, which should send a shudder through various people's hearts.

[Yevrah]

I reckon we won't leave.

I was convinced as such after the vote, but wobbled when Article 50 was triggered.

Are there odds available on us not?

[GS]

We'll leave. The only danger would be another election before 2022, but as it stands the Tories need the parliament to run to 2022 and the Eurosceptic wing aren't having anything that doesn't involve fully leaving by the end of the parliament.

I reckon we'll have a transition period from 2019 to 2021 or 2022, and then be out. If it goes on longer than that, then we'll end up staying in because "why are we in the single market but we have no say in the rules!". Total bollocks, of course, but this Soft and Hard Brexit nonsense is basically a ruse to implement the former as a staging post to reversing the result. They just don't have the intellectual honesty to admit that's what it's about.

[Lewis]

At least some Lincolnshire farmer will Timothy McVeigh the Financial Times when their sausages get spited out of protected status.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I was convinced as such after the vote, but wobbled when Article 50 was triggered.

Are there odds available on us not?

You can get tidy odds somewhere on us not leaving before 2022.

[Shindig]

The EU wins either way. You can't leave easily because public and political appetite isn't there. They don't have to make it hard for us because we're making it hard for ourselves.

[Kikó]

We need to get out of the largest trading block in the world asap.

[GS]

I think you lads lost that argument last year.

[Sam]

Frankly it's the freedom I'm looking forward to the most.

[phonics]

I'm tired of winning already.

[phonics]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEIDc08XUAAoNNA.jpg:large

lol

[Jimmy Floyd]

As if the Germans are 65% pro-Macron. That's the sort of rubbish Bismarck used to dupe Napoleon III with.

[Shindig]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-40542320/jeremy-corbyn-interrupted-during-durham-gala-speech

Glad I skipped it. It's just a brass band, a load of union banners and some youngsters on cheap drugs in a field.

[GS]

Not a cult.

[Lewis]

She probably wanted to question him on his IRA support.

[GS]

Or whether "kindler, gentler politics" is all a bit of a ruse to mask the forthcoming revolution.

883792014323724288

[Kikó]

I look forward to not reading it.

[GS]

Unwillingness to be informed is a fairly common trait amongst the Labour vote, I fear.

[Byron]

:D

Fuck me.

[Shindig]

Political fanboyism is really fun to watch.

[Henry]

So apparently Teresa May had the neck to make a speech at London Pride, just shortly after aligning her party with the DUP.

[Raoul Duke]

Surely she's at the G20 thing? Pride was this weekend, no?

[Lewis]

She sent a video message, which people are lolling about because she took money from an Iranian propaganda outlet.

[Byron]

Surely she's at the G20 thing? Pride was this weekend, no?

Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't

May gives a speech - WHY DID YOU ALIGN WITH THE DUP THEN?
May doesn't give a speech - WHY AREN'T YOU GIVING A SPEECH? HOMOPHOBE!

[Kikó]

Merkel voted against gay marriage. But she didn't align with the DUP though.

[Magic]

Sorry are THE WORKING CLASS getting behind some cunt called Jacob Rees Mogg? Some toff Tory cunt eh.

[GS]

:D

Fuck me.

The tuition fee debacle is a case in point. Not only does all evidence point towards the gap between rich and poor occurring in primary education, but it's quite clear that it would only benefit your standard Oxbridge / Russell Group graduate.

It's an electoral bung - not social justice. Anybody claiming it's the latter should be disenfranchised, as should anybody who fails to understand what is a relatively simple system.

[GS]

The DUP 'alignment' is a right laugh, as well. It's a devolved issue, and the confidence and supply agreement specifically sets out what areas there will be support in. It has nothing to do with social policy whatsoever.

Still, the Corbynite wing advocating home requisitions and the imposition of direct rule on tax havens gives you a clear insight into their view of law and due process. That and John McDonnell remaining in post.

[Lewis]

In many ways Jacob Rees-Mogg is great, but his weird Catholicism would probably do him more damage than his weird poshness if it ever came down to it.

[Disco]

It shows how idiotic and pointless social media is, the guy was getting pilloried not long ago for being posh and being married to someone with a big house. Now he's the darling of Twitter because he has half a brain and a sarcastic turn of phrase. Substantive reasoning all round there.

[Magic]

It shows how idiotic and pointless social media is, the guy was getting pilloried not long ago for being posh and being married to someone with a big house. Now he's the darling of Twitter because he has half a brain and a sarcastic turn of phrase. Substantive reasoning all round there.

The electorate are stupid cunts. If 7 years of disastrous austerity won't change your mind nothing will. Morons. #EUin

[GS]

In many ways Jacob Rees-Mogg is great, but his weird Catholicism would probably do him more damage than his weird poshness if it ever came down to it.

Well, the reaction to the DUP 'deal' from the holier-than-thou crowd gives you an insight into what would happen. That and the butchering of Saint Timothy Farron, martyr.

[Lewis]

I can tolerate the HOMOPHOBIA, but we haven't left the European Union only to have a Prime Minister taking orders from the Bishop of Rome.

[Disco]

The electorate are stupid cunts. If 7 years of disastrous austerity won't change your mind nothing will. Morons. #EUin

Depends whose Kool Aid you've been drinking.

[GS]

884000278726311936

Fucking hell.

[Lewis]

There must be loads of cranks/idiots who get put up in 'unwinnable' seats across the country, so she just slipped through the net. It's her 'fighting gentrification' that makes me lol. Having been born in Chelsea, love, what attracted you to the area in the eighties?

[GS]

It's probably quite difficult to find non-embarrassing sacrificial lambs, but they usually (or used to, anyway) make future MPs earn their spurs before they'd get a winnable option. Douglas Carswell was put up against the Lord Blair in Sedgefield in 2001, and they had Jacob Rees-Mogg campaigning in some ex-mining shithole in the north.

[Henry]

Imagine Macron doing a deal with the National Front and then claiming that it was all good because the program for government didn't say anything about holocaust denial.

[Lewis]

https://media.tenor.com/images/abf5199e430848cb68cf1e120c919448/tenor.gif

[GS]

Imagine Macron doing a deal with the National Front and then claiming that it was all good because the program for government didn't say anything about holocaust denial.

You're off your fucking rocker.

Beyond parody.

[Disco]

New meta.

[Henry]

There is no moral difference between the DUP and the National Front. You forfeited all right to be taken seriously about bigotry or homophobia when you voted for them.

[GS]

No moral difference between the DUP and the Front National. :D

You're a clown.

[GS]

Moving on from Henry's insanity, this is quite an interesting chart:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DENZowtXkAA64uh.jpg

Look at the state of the increase under "the last Labour government".

[Henry]

The only person who would think that the DUP's sectarian bigotry and homophobia isn't as bad as the National Front's racism is someone who agreed with said bigotry and homophobia.

Your voting group for them based on the single issue of the union is like voting for the NF because you like their transport policy.

[7om]

Tell us again how being a victim of terrorism is the same as being run over by a rogue driver.

[Lewis]

Henners, a few weeks ago you listed Jeremy Corbyn as one of your 'political heroes', but what do you actually think of things like his support for the IRA, taking money from Press TV, doing fuck all about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party... I ask because I've searched all of the relevant threads here and, whilst you don't appear to have addressed any of that stuff, I still don't want to just shoot off making cheap jokes about hypocrisy without actually knowing what you think.

[GS]

The only person who would think that the DUP's sectarian bigotry and homophobia isn't as bad as the National Front's racism is someone who agreed with said bigotry and homophobia.

Your voting group for them based on the single issue of the union is like voting for the NF because you like their transport policy.

You're not this stupid. You know rightly that the constitutional position in an electorate as polarised as Northern Ireland is likely to transcend all other issues. It's regrettable that this case, but it perhaps might not have been if Jeremy's mates hadn't been bombing everybody for thirty years.


Henners, a few weeks ago you listed Jeremy Corbyn as one of your 'political heroes', but what do you actually think of things like his support for the IRA, taking money from Press TV, doing fuck all about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party... I ask because I've searched all of the relevant threads here and, whilst you don't appear to have addressed any of that stuff, I still don't want to just shoot off making cheap jokes about hypocrisy without actually knowing what you think.

It should be noted that when he was challenged on this previously, he point-blank refused to address it.

[Henry]

What I did is refuse to change the subject away from your peddling of discredited economics like the Laffer Curve.

I don't have a problem with Press TV any more than I do with a large proportion of media, the vast majority of which is compromised in terms of its ownership and its record. "Taking money" from them is not a problem in itself.
And I haven't seen any evidence that there's been anything lacking with regard to anti-Semitism from Corbyn personally. Possibly there's some inertia in the party around their procedures, in which case he should do something about that. But on the whole this is just mudslinging.

Now, on the IRA, and I did post about this earlier in the thread, Corbyn has condemned their violence and the violence of others. It's fairly clear that the issue here is that he's insufficiently committed to standing behind the policies of the British state and rather than singling the IRA out as the single source of all problems during the Troubles (which they weren't) tends to align with their political objectives. It's all fairly irrelevant now though. He is heroic because he's put an alternative to neoliberalism to the forefront of UK politics for the first time in decades.

As an aside, I was once at a "day after" party of a wedding in a hotel and Gerry Adams happened to be in the building at some function or other. When he was in the carpark some of the people I was with spotted him and decided to troop outside for a photo op with the famous person. I did not, because I have no desire to meet a mass murderer (however complex his subsequent political role may be). But then I'm not a politician who has a responsibility to undertake such unpleasant work for the greater good. John Hume's talks with Adams at a time when no-one else would give him the time of day were the catalyst for the entire peace process. So, the act of engaging with Sinn Fein during the 1980s was entirely necessary.

[phonics]

Can I just say

'UK government arms sales to Saudi Arabia are lawful, the High Court rules, after seeing secret evidence'

might be the most neo-liberal headline I've ever seen.

[GS]

Now, on the IRA, and I did post about this earlier in the thread, Corbyn has condemned their violence and the violence of others. It's fairly clear that the issue here is that he's insufficiently committed to standing behind the policies of the British state and rather than singling the IRA out as the single source of all problems during the Troubles (which they weren't) tends to align with their political objectives. It's all fairly irrelevant now though. He is heroic because he's put an alternative to neoliberalism to the forefront of UK politics for the first time in decades.

As an aside, I was once at a "day after" party of a wedding in a hotel and Gerry Adams happened to be in the building at some function or other. When he was in the carpark some of the people I was with spotted him and decided to troop outside for a photo op with the famous person. I did not, because I have no desire to meet a mass murderer (however complex his subsequent political role may be). But then I'm not a politician who has a responsibility to undertake such unpleasant work for the greater good. John Hume's talks with Adams at a time when no-one else would give him the time of day were the catalyst for the entire peace process. So, the act of engaging with Sinn Fein during the 1980s was entirely necessary.

I'm sorry, but this is just complete bollocks. It goes against the contemporary evidence available and is revisionism of the worst kind. At least have the decency to admit he's your 'political hero' (in spite of or because of) his stance on the IRA - but let's not pretend it's something it wasn't. He had a choice of supporting the right to self-determination or coercion. He chose coercion. He had a choice of supporting democratic nationalists and peaceful means with the SDLP and John Hume or violence. He chose violence.

Whatever else it says, it demonstrates clearly that his judgement is simply not good enough for elected office - never mind high office. That his top team is comprised of fellow IRA sympathisers merely compounds it, as it suggests a mindset.

He's also spouted off constantly about how great Venezuela was. Until now, obviously, since it's gone to absolute shit. Another spectacular Corbyn misjudgement.

[phonics]

Venezuela's issues are tied more to it tying it's currency to oil prices when it was $110 a barrel than the evils of socialism.

[Lewis]

What I did is refuse to change the subject away from your peddling of discredited economics like the Laffer Curve.

I don't have a problem with Press TV any more than I do with a large proportion of media, the vast majority of which is compromised in terms of its ownership and its record. "Taking money" from them is not a problem in itself.
And I haven't seen any evidence that there's been anything lacking with regard to anti-Semitism from Corbyn personally. Possibly there's some inertia in the party around their procedures, in which case he should do something about that. But on the whole this is just mudslinging.

He took money from them even after Ofcom had revoked their broadcasting licence for using a confession from a CNN journalist that the Iranian government tortured out of him (who they then said worked for MI6 after Ofcom sided with him). Which other parts of the media are similarly 'compromised'?

[GS]

Demonstrating that the economic policies implemented were utterly unsustainable and they're now paying the price.

One wonders what would happen if Wor Jez implemented his economic policies, failed to raise the relevant taxation (he wouldn't get near it), the deficit spiked, debt piled on, and the markets panicked. We'd be fucked. And it's not difficult to imagine, given he's useless and this sort of economic solution has never, ever worked. You have to question why people are stupid enough to believe that this time it might.

[Magic]

We'll the current economic solution hasn't worked either (unless you are wealthy), so why the fuck not?

[phonics]

Demonstrating that the economic policies implemented were utterly unsustainable and they're now paying the price.
.

You definitely, definitely, definitely know that many countries around the world do this and it has nothing to do with your attempts at saying 'left economics = bad'

http://i.imgur.com/oFvA71v.png

Does Greece mean capitalism has failed? Does Argentina? an entire state in the US (Detroit) filed for bankruptcy recently, is that a failure of capitalism?

[Lewis]

They pegged it to the dollar, not oil prices (which would be mental), and then wanked up the state oil company along with everything else. Whilst oil prices were rocketing, their production was actually falling, so they missed out on huge amounts of wealth.

[GS]

:face:

The socialist economic model is destined to fail because centralised planning is an inherently stupid way of running the economy.

[Henry]

He took money from them even after Ofcom had revoked their broadcasting licence for using a confession from a CNN journalist that the Iranian government tortured out of him (who they then said worked for MI6 after Ofcom sided with him). Which other parts of the media are similarly 'compromised'?

That's not why Press TV's license was revoked at all. This is. (https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/jan/20/iran-press-tv-loses-uk-licence)

Virtually all of the press is owned and run for the benefit of either powerful states or unaccountable elites with shady pro-corporate agendas. Their acquiescence to things like the Iraq War (ooh, look at us - we're embedded! With our brave troops!) and the destruction of the Palestinian homeland makes the misdeeds of Press TV appear trivial in comparison.

[Lewis]

They found out about that - that it was literally an Iranian propaganda outlet, rather than merely an affiliate - when they were investigating them airing said tortured confession. I would say that that puts them well beyond what most media organisations do; but, let's just say it doesn't for a minute. He still took money off them. Why did he do that? If you apply the standard you set for GS, he obviously agrees with the sectarian bigotry and homophobia of the Iranian government.

[phonics]

Whilst oil prices were rocketing, their production was actually falling, so they missed out on huge amounts of wealth.

Yeah had read about that.

Out of interest as I don't know how this stuff works, when the Conservatives inevitably sack the woman who said the n-word. Is that a by-election or do they just replace her?

[GS]

Neither. She loses the whip, but she'll still be the MP for her constituency until she either resigns or there's another election - at which point the Tories will run somebody else.

As it is, she'll still vote with the Tories so whilst it would affect the mathematical majority it doesn't affect the actual working majority. Unless she's suspended from the Commons for a period, but given we allow terrorist sympathisers to sit in the chamber what's the occasional racist slur.

884422208231276545

He's such a hypocritical little cunt.

[Henry]

They found out about that - that it was literally an Iranian propaganda outlet, rather than merely an affiliate - when they were investigating them airing said tortured confession. I would say that that puts them well beyond what most media organisations do; but, let's just say it doesn't for a minute. He still took money off them. Why did he do that? If you apply the standard you set for GS, he obviously agrees with the sectarian bigotry and homophobia of the Iranian government.

That's some very convoluted logic. GS voted for sectarian homophobes (having expressed such sentiments himself) but I'm not aware of his being paid by anyone.

[GS]

:rolleyes:

Clown.

[Henry]

Tell us again about how gays should keep their relationships behind closed doors. :)

[GS]

Everybody should. What they do behind closed doors is nobody else's business but their own. This was outlined before. It's been outlined many, many times.

Why do you find simple concepts so difficult to grasp?

[phonics]

884426622396383233

I'm always unintentionally dropping n-words.