UK General Election 2017 - 8 June

[Kikó]

She's smashed it. Properly dog shit songs released as she goes and fannies about across Europe on someone else's expense. Great effort.

[Lewis]

Big up the PARLIAMENTARY ARITHMETIC brigade trying to work out how you form a 'Unity Government' out of the sweaties, the Liberal Democrats, and a list of future Labour leaders from 2012.

Even bigger up Jezza and his 'Make me Prime Minister and I'll sort it' proposal. Between that shit and Prime Minister Boris Johnson posting daily reminders of the clock ticking in what I can only assume is a deliberately Donald Trump-like fashion it's really peaking out.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Jeremy is ticking the clock down as well. That said, Boris probably needs to call that election pronto or else he might lose it. Not sure even Deadly Dom can put a positive spin on Dover seizing up just before polling day.

[Lewis]

The plot-losing over him is good as well, with actual professional opinion-havers unironically criticising him for being unelected. It really is the best thing ever.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He is quietly summarily sacking loads of SpAds and getting the remainder to rat on their bosses as well. I would love to be a fly on the wall. All these people lived by the sword for two decades but now they are crying about dying by it.

[Lewis]

I read his post-referendum blog again at work yesterday. I reckon he's only took to wearing them weird tinted paedophile glasses to annoy certain people.

[Henry]

Amdst this utter shit, nobody seems to have noticed that Scumbag Duncan Smith declared that they were going to raise the pension age to 75.

"Removing obstacles to work", he called it.

[Lewis]

It was just a wanky think tank 'report', and Iain Duncan Smith hasn't been at pensions for over three years. Do you get your news by family chain e-mails these days?

[Kikó]

Think tank is probably a kite flyer and then when we only have to work until 74 it'll look like a result.

[Lewis]

It's all pretty unsustainable, so we probably won't even get that.

[phonics]

I still find it incredible that I live in a country where I can get 70% of my previous salary (anything <100k a year) for 18 months if I get the sack while the same sacking in the UK would literally bankrupt me. There's got to be a better way.

[niko_cee]

Is the better way vast amounts of under the table undeclared money siphoned out of other nations, cuckoo clocks or chocolate?

[phonics]

Is the better way vast amounts of under the table undeclared money siphoned out of other nations, cuckoo clocks or chocolate?

How would the general populace have access to undeclared money?

I will duly note that the UK has almost half our GDP per capita but there's got to be a middle ground between me getting 4k or 288 a month.

[Disco]

Well you get your giro in nazi gold so....

[niko_cee]

How would the general populace have access to undeclared money?


They work for the banks that conceal all that foreign wealth and/or Nazi gold?

[phonics]

They work for the banks that conceal all that foreign wealth and/or Nazi gold?

Private banks pay almost no tax because by definition, their money is private. The finance sector is only 11% of the countries economy and less than 5% of the workforce. Way more output comes from Pharmaceuticals, Watches and Nestle.

I pay less in income tax than the UK, the state takes a way larger chunk every month than the UK does for our equivalent of National Insurance though and my employer has to match that.

I'm not saying that the UK should just copy Switzerland but there must be a system where medium term unemployment doesn't result in destitution.

[Shindig]

There's never been a better time for Britain to pivot into a tax haven. Fuck, just invade Switzerland. That only needs six tanks.

[Kikó]

It's your own fault for losing your job so you deserve to starve to death and be on Jeremy Kyle.

[phonics]

There's never been a better time for Britain to pivot into a tax haven. Fuck, just invade Switzerland. That only needs six tanks.

We have a bigger infantry army, armed and trained civillians, brand new fighter jets, every bridge has remote controlled detonators attached and there's a nuclear bunker in pretty much every house/office. Even our mountains are kitted out for war.

https://migflug.com/jetflights/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2014/09/Hawker-Hunter-St.-Stephan.jpg

Good luck. It'd probably be quicker and easier to take Germany.

[Shindig]

I like the idea of the Swiss blowing up their own bridges.

[phonics]

I like the idea of the Swiss blowing up their own bridges.

It's almost stupid how prepared they are. 70% of the food is grown in-country just in case they're cut off from the rest of Europe in a war scenario. Even though Switzerland has invaded more countries than times they've been invaded since becoming a country (All military skirmishes getting drunk and accidentally invading Lichtenstein but still).

[Shindig]

I'm annoyed they bottled the Nuclear Weapons ban, citing security concerns.

[phonics]

I've got a bunker if you can make it here within the 30 minute warning.

[Shindig]

Is that the line you gave Igor?

[Spikey M]

Phonics going full Mert, balls deep in a Cuckoo clock. :drool:

[Lewis]

We could easily nuke Switzerland off the map mate so...

[phonics]

We could easily nuke Switzerland off the map mate so...

I live off tinned beans for a few years and then get to do Fallout but in real life. Sounds cool.

[Lewis]

The Swansea flashbacks would get you before the radiation did.

[Boydy]

every bridge has remote controlled detonators attached

That doesn't sound like a good idea.

[Disco]

We could easily nuke Switzerland off the map mate so...

If we didn't do it over Toblerone then we never will.

[Disco]

That doesn't sound like a good idea.

You'd rather be right up close?

[Boydy]

You'd rather be right up close?
No, I mean having explosives on all your bridges all the time.

[Spikey M]

You'd rather be right up close?

You can take the boy out of Northern Ireland....

[Disco]

No, I mean having explosives on all your bridges all the time.

How else do you propose to blow them all up?

[phonics]

No, I mean having explosives on all your bridges all the time.
Turns out it was a cold war thing and they removed the last of them in 2015. Shame.

Interesting article on it, https://io9.gizmodo.com/how-switzerland-camouflaged-its-ready-to-explode-archit-5919581

[Boydy]

Turns out it was a cold war thing and they removed the last of them in 2015. Shame.

Interesting article on it, https://io9.gizmodo.com/how-switzerland-camouflaged-its-ready-to-explode-archit-5919581

Yeah, I googled it as well. Found some Telegraph article that talked about removing the last one along the border with Germany but they reckon there are still other ones elsewhere.

[Magic]

It's your own fault for losing your job so you deserve to starve to death and be on Jeremy Kyle.

And even that's been cancelled. Desolate.

[Yevrah]

Jesus.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

[Lewis]

Top move that.

[phonics]

Having someone from a safe seat who has literally never faced a real election shutting down Parliament to do what he wants is properly taking back control.

[Ian]

Might start a GoFundMe to have him chained up and launched into the sea.

I feel like if it got enough money to do it then really I'd just be bowing to the will of the people, and we know that Boris is all about that.

[Yevrah]

It's a bold move that's basically shit or bust.

If it ends in bust then I've no idea what the parliamentary position after that will look like.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's the opposite of bold, they know they have the Remainers bent over and are just applying the lube.

[Spikey M]

Off to Twitter I go. :drool:

[Yevrah]

It's the opposite of bold, they know they have the Remainers bent over and are just applying the lube.

I'm not sure they do. Do you think we're definitely leaving come what may on 31st October?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yes. If we don't, it will be because the various parties/factions of Remain manage to be about 400% more united than they have been at any time up until now.

[Ian]

Oh good, it's happening.

Silly old cow.

[Spikey M]

Mate. :|

[Yevrah]

Even some of his cabinet don’t support the move, so my contention is he’s probably shit the bed on this one.

We’ll see.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He has only shat the bed if his opponents (all of them) manage to agree on an alternative, and the calculation is that they won't.

[Spikey M]

Can they trigger an election? Would it change this if they did?

[phonics]

They’ve said they’ll stay even if there’s a no confidence vote so that’ll be interesting.

[niko_cee]

Isn't the idea of this to try and force a vote of no confidence, rather than some shitty legislative move to further push back the deadline (how does anything change if the date shifts to Dec 31st or March next year?) - with the gamble being fewer Conservatives will back a move to put Jez & co into government than would be happy to sign their names to some sort of pointless extension. And then, if the government is brought down by a vote of no confidence relating to Brexit, he can purge the unfaithful and fight an election with a clearly defined anti-'the progressive majority' position (presumably in league with Nigel)?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yep. They want to enrage the remainers enough for them to flap their way into an election, which Boris (by dint of being the only leader with a coherent policy position) should win.

The only problem is if Brexit subsides into a world-ending shambles by then and the public develops cold feet maybe even as late as the last few days.

[Yevrah]

What odds can I get on us not leaving by 31st Oct?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

What odds can I get on us not leaving by 31st Oct?

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/brexit/uk-to-leave-the-eu-on-the-31-october-2019

1.9 from Smarkets (no idea).

[Yevrah]

Oh, those are shit odds. Think the bookies are reading it the way I do to some degree then.

I’m far from convinced Boris would win a vote of no confidence anyway, let alone on the back of this. Which is where the whole plan falls down.

I also don’t think Cummings is the genius some of you do, for me, Farage was comfortably the driving force behind Brexit winning.

So I guess we’ll see about that as well.

[mikem]

Hasn’t the simple problem all along been that rank choice voting on referendums with three or more choices doesn’t work? Nothing but a Leave / No will get any result but delay so you have to run out the clock.

[Henry]

He needs to be brought down by whatever means necessary. It's essentially a coup.

[Shindig]

The alternative is knocking it back again and again until Farage gains enough support to become PM.

[phonics]

The alternative is knocking it back again and again until Farage gains enough support to become PM.

He'd have to win an election where people actually bothered to vote first. Only time he's ever won one is on a single issue vote that only half the electorate shows up for.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh, those are shit odds. Think the bookies are reading it the way I do to some degree then.

I’m far from convinced Boris would win a vote of no confidence anyway, let alone on the back of this. Which is where the whole plan falls down.

I also don’t think Cummings is the genius some of you do, for me, Farage was comfortably the driving force behind Brexit winning.

So I guess we’ll see about that as well.

He'd lose a vote of confidence, then win an election.

Underestimate Cummings at your peril, that is what remainers did in 2016 and they're doing it again now. They have wasted three years bickering among themselves and now No Deal is a lock unless something unbelievably dramatic is arranged.

[phonics]

He'd lose a vote of confidence, then win an election.

Underestimate Cummings at your peril, that is what remainers did in 2016 and they're doing it again now. They have wasted three years bickering among themselves and now No Deal is a lock unless something unbelievably dramatic is arranged.

The 'lefts' ability to prioritise winning a fight amongst each other rather than their opponent is truly incredible. You do wonder what they could get done if they'd just line-up like the other side does. The Lib Dems saying they won't align with a Corbyn-led Labour but would someone else? Oh yes, I can just see the guy who's seen off two leadership challenges stepping aside because the fucking Lib Dems asked him to. Making their position, Brexit must be stopped at all costs unless someone they don't like is involved? Strong leadership.

[Shindig]

He'd have to win an election where people actually bothered to vote first. Only time he's ever won one is on a single issue vote that only half the electorate shows up for.

I remember when I decided to FPTP the referendum vote and Leave walked it comfortably. All roads lead to Brexit because the Remain side haven't, in the last three years, put together anything to turn public opinion.

[phonics]

I remember when I decided to FPTP the referendum vote and Leave walked it comfortably. All roads lead to Brexit because the Remain side haven't, in the last three years, put together anything to turn public opinion.

Remain hasn't been in charge so what are you expecting them to have done aside from vote against it in Parliament?

[Shindig]

You don't need to be in charge to get TV time to plead your case.

[Boydy]

The 'lefts' ability to prioritise winning a fight amongst each other rather than their opponent is truly incredible. You do wonder what they could get done if they'd just line-up like the other side does. The Lib Dems saying they won't align with a Corbyn-led Labour but would someone else? Oh yes, I can just see the guy who's seen off two leadership challenges stepping aside because the fucking Lib Dems asked him to. Making their position, Brexit must be stopped at all costs unless someone they don't like is involved? Strong leadership.

All of 'remain' isn't the left. Half the fucking Labour party isn't even the left.

The Lib Dems are fucking Tories.

[niko_cee]

Also 'Remain' has been in charge. Where the fuck have you been?

[phonics]

You don't need to be in charge to get TV time to plead your case.

Plead your case for what? There literally hasn't been anything for the public to be plead to? The only public vote since was a General Election that was barely about Brexit which they came out the loser?


All of 'remain' isn't the left. Half the fucking Labour party isn't even the left.

The Lib Dems are fucking Tories.

And all of the right isn't leave, it's why this is all such a cluster fuck and should be dissolved.


Also 'Remain' has been in charge. Where the fuck have you been?

In what sense has Remain been in charge?

[Lewis]

If the Labour Party had any stones they would just come out for stopping the whole thing and dare the Doncasters and that not to vote for them.

[niko_cee]

Well the PM, the Chancellor, and the majority of the house of commons were and, in the case of the latter, continue to be on that side of the argument. Leave have only recently got their foot in the door really.

[phonics]

If the Labour Party had any stones they would just come out for stopping the whole thing and dare the Doncasters and that not to vote for them.

Yeah but the leader of the Labour Party thinks the EU's a capitalist cancer on the people so that's that ruled out.

[Shindig]

Plead your case for what? There literally hasn't been anything for the public to be plead to? The only public vote since was a General Election that was barely about Brexit which they came out the loser?

.. the ... the European elections? The ... erm... the ... thing the Brexit party made big gains in? Are you .... feeling ok?

[phonics]

Well the PM, the Chancellor, and the majority of the house of commons were and, in the case of the latter, continue to be on that side of the argument. Leave have only recently got their foot in the door really.

So we're saying is that for the last 3 years, the sitting government has been working to do the exact opposite of their public statements, up to and including negotiating an entire agreement, presenting that to Parliament (as they were court-ordered to despite fighting against) that was rejected by both Leave and Remain members of the house of commons. It was all just a secret plan to remain? Really?

[Lewis]

Yeah but the leader of the Labour Party thinks the EU's a capitalist cancer on the people so that's that ruled out.

I don't think that's relevant anymore. He would go along with anything if it got them into government.

[niko_cee]

The whole thing, from both sides of the negotiations, has been entirely aimed at collapsing/reversing the process (from our side probably through rank incompetence rather than any Machiavellian genius) from the outset.

[phonics]

.. the ... the European elections? The ... erm... the ... thing the Brexit party made big gains in? Are you .... feeling ok?

The election where UKIP, the previous Brexit party, lost 21 seats and the new Brexit party gained 14. What a victory for Leave.

The Socialist Workers Party won a seat too but I don't think it's a sign that communism is sweeping the nation.

[phonics]

I don't think that's relevant anymore. He would go along with anything if it got them into government.

Maybe if it was just a two-party coalition with the Scots but I think he knows that Chuka and friends would do everything they could to make sure anything he tried would be thwarted.

[Yevrah]

He'd lose a vote of confidence, then win an election.

How on earth is he going to win an election? And if that's the plan just call one in the first place.

It's fucking deranged Jim.

And I don't underestimate Cummings, I just think most here underestimate the impact Farage had, without which, there'd have been no referendum in the first place, let alone a vote to leave.

[Yevrah]

Oh and special mention to the Reverend J Corbyn, he's been absolutely fucking useless on this issue for 3 full years.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The remain lot really should have voted for the WA and they could have avoided this reign of terror type scenario currently playing out.

[Lewis]

Extremist Hard Remainers. With their dark money and dodgy foreign contacts.

[Jimmy Floyd]

How on earth is he going to win an election? And if that's the plan just call one in the first place.

It's fucking deranged Jim.

And I don't underestimate Cummings, I just think most here underestimate the impact Farage had, without which, there'd have been no referendum in the first place, let alone a vote to leave.

Farage was very influential in a broader sense, and in terms of making the referendum happen, but he didn't actually do the direct winning of it. That required an immense effort to sideline the various bad PR pricks (including Farage) who wanted to make it about them, and boil the Leave message down to something people would buy into.

As Farage's election results show, he has a strong but limited popularity. They needed to (and did) reach millions of people appalled by him.

[phonics]

How on earth is he going to win an election? And if that's the plan just call one in the first place.

Maybe if Scottish Labour weren't absolutely useless but I don't see how Labour win with Brexit splitting your party down the middle and not having Scotland be an easy 40 seats.

[phonics]

Oh and special mention to the Reverend J Corbyn, he's been absolutely fucking useless on this issue for 3 full years.

When he first came on the scene during that leadership election I mentioned to my dad I liked the cut of his jib. He told me that Corbyn used to be his MP when he lived in Islington, said he just surrounded himself with 'advisers' who talk a lot, do little and spent more time on opposing national/foreign policy issues (knowing they could have no effect on them) than the bin collection.

Now he's the leader of the opposition party and he's spent 3 years saying his position is that he could do whatever the other lots position is better. Fucking useless.

[Yevrah]

Maybe if Scottish Labour weren't absolutely useless but I don't see how Labour win with Brexit splitting your party down the middle and not having Scotland be an easy 40 seats.

I suspect there'd be no outright majority and maybe not even the numbers for a shitty coalition to work.

[Yevrah]

As Farage's election results show, he has a strong but limited popularity. They needed to (and did) reach millions of people appalled by him.

Or one could say his election results show he's a one issue man that it would be pointless to make an MP. Ergo he doesn't get voted in.

[phonics]

I suspect there'd be no outright majority and maybe not even the numbers for a shitty coalition to work.

A vote to leave Brussels causing our system to become as split and therefore inert as the Belgian Parliament would be a nice piece of irony.

[phonics]

Farage was very influential in a broader sense, and in terms of making the referendum happen, but he didn't actually do the direct winning of it. That required an immense effort to sideline the various bad PR pricks (including Farage) who wanted to make it about them, and boil the Leave message down to something people would buy into.

As Farage's election results show, he has a strong but limited popularity. They needed to (and did) reach millions of people appalled by him.

How many people do you think changed their minds on whether to leave or not between February and June?

[Boydy]

The 'leave message'. What the fuck was that exactly?

[Lewis]

How many people do you think changed their minds on whether to leave or not between February and June?

https://dominiccummings.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/screenshot-2016-11-27-13-58-441.png?w=498&h=458

That many (source (https://dominiccummings.com/2017/01/09/on-the-referendum-21-branching-histories-of-the-2016-referendum-and-the-frogs-before-the-storm-2/)).

[Gray Fox]

Seemingly either "We don't like the forrins" or "£350m a week mate, it's on the bus"

[phonics]

The 'leave message'. What the fuck was that exactly?

Everything will be exactly the same except we’ll have more money less regulations and less immigrants.

[phonics]

https://dominiccummings.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/screenshot-2016-11-27-13-58-441.png?w=498&h=458

That many (source (https://dominiccummings.com/2017/01/09/on-the-referendum-21-branching-histories-of-the-2016-referendum-and-the-frogs-before-the-storm-2/)).

Leaving aside that those choices of answers are absolutely mental. I think we can quite confidently say that polling isnt quite the soothsayer everyone said they were prior to 2016 can’t we?

That poll even says the grouo of people who want to leave are almost 50% bigger than the people who want to stay which isn’t really saying anything is it?

If that poll is how I'm supposed to view the election, they converted more people who agreed with the sentence 'I fully support the European Union project' a few months earlier than people who wanted to leave but might not risk it?

[Lewis]

They converted more of the don't knows (or don't cares) and enough of the reluctant waverers.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The 'leave message'. What the fuck was that exactly?

Take back control.

[Shindig]

"We need to stop these trucks of paperwork aimlessly wandering around the continent."

[ItalAussie]

It is staggering that Corbyn is still in charge of anything. How long has he been in now? I think he might have even been in when I was still in the UK, or at least not long after I left. That is a brilliant run for someone who has achieved nothing, and has been especially gutless on the defining issue of contemporary British politics.

[Lewis]

1167046610167181312

[Pepe]

:lol:

[Byron]

Oh dear.

[Spikey M]

Incredible :lol:

[phonics]

I have no idea who this bloke is, where he stands on the issues but this two minute clip is more reflective of what a political representative should be than anything I've seen in the last decade. Shame that it takes an (unwritten s9o who cares) constitutional crisis to see it occur.

1167080520968232964

Registers his authority as the speaker, tells the audience that he is as in the loop as those wanting answers are to establish common ground and follows by explaining what he believes will follow both politically and legally. I've watched the follow-up videos now and the people I'm supposed to agree with come across as total cunts. Solid effort.

[Lewis]

He should have just kept rambling until half the crowd died.

[phonics]

He should have just kept rambling until half the crowd died.

No need. Opened it up for questions and it's the centre-left at the door, the next two videos are just people in the same group shouting over each other and everyone telling everyone else to shutup.

[phonics]

On the other side of responsible political communication, this Twitter thread I saw underneath a post from Bruce Springsteens guitarist:

https://i.imgur.com/SHjpu8l.png

Three people, eight posts, all of them a different shade of idiot.

I'm not sure which is more incorrect, that Antifa is the driving force behind remain or 'Antifa is in America'.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The advisory referendum stuff is always good. It advised us to leave.

[Spikey M]

'It wasn't legally binding'. There's a bloke you don't lend money to.

[Yevrah]

Indeed, it wasn't offered in an advisory capacity so it wasn't advisory.

[Yeldoow]

I think the point about it being advisory is that there was no legally mandated path forward after the vote. Hence the last three years of people arguing about what leave means, if people knew what they were voting for, "Brexit means Brexit" and all that shit.

If it had been legally binding it would have had to be crystal clear what would happen the day after the vote. i.e. If you vote A, X happens. If you vote B, Y happens.

[Spikey M]

That's just window dressing. Leave won, which - in theory - tells us that Johnny Public want to leave the EU. The how's and why's are of fuck all importance to most, but they absolutely expect to be listened to.

It may have only been advisory legally speaking, but there was more than enough ranting and blustering before and after the referendum for people expect the result to be 'honoured'.

[Yeldoow]

That's just window dressing. Leave won, which - in theory - tells us that Johnny Public want to leave the EU. The how's and why's are of fuck all importance to most, but they absolutely expect to be listened to.

It may have only been advisory legally speaking, but there was more than enough ranting and blustering before and after the referendum for people expect the result to be 'honoured'.

Right, but there doesn't seem to be any consensus about how to "honour" the result and leave.

It's like having a vote with you family/flatmates/whatever to have a takeaway and then arguing over whether to have a chinese/indian/kebab/pizza/etc...

[Spikey M]

I reckon most that voted leave did so with 'no deal' in mind.

It's just a shame that No Deal Brexit is getting a Chinese but ordering an omelette.

[Ian]

I don't imagine the majority of the votes on either side were with anything other than "yeah" or "nah" in mind. And some of those that did have more of an idea were basing those ideas on outright lies.

Still, Brussels something something sovereignty something, etc. so we're definitely doing the right thing as we prepare to goosestep into our glorious new future.

[Lewis]

NO DEAL was very much implied by TAKE BACK CONTROL, since recovering control over money, borders, and laws (which was the campaign focus) necessitates leaving the economic, political, and legal structures of the European Union. It would have been nice to have done so gradually and [relatively] seamlessly, but if that wasn't an option then you follow the logic and we're away regardless. Interpreting it as leave... but only on terms acceptable to four hundred people who don't want to leave is where the shitshow has come from.

[mugbull]

You get a 50.epsilon% majority in the referendum and you complain that there were attempts at compromise? Lol

[Lewis]

People voted to for those things. You can't 'compromise' by not doing them and saying you have.

[mugbull]

Not doing them your way, of course

[Lewis]

You either let the European Union run your trade policy and have legal supremacy or you don't. I'm sure people would have grasped that had the result gone the other way and leave voters began looking for 'compromise'.

[Shindig]

I definitely saw the 'simple yes or no referendum' implying No meant No Deal.

[randomlegend]

The vast majority, if asked at the time, wouldn't have considered what a "deal" even was nonetheless what it would or wouldn't mean for the them/the country.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The referendum was only called because Cameron and the entire establishment assumed they would win it easily. None of them gave any thought to what would happen if they lost, even right up until the final days (remember when they paraded Obama?). They were complacent one too many times.

All the stuff about billboards and LIES is partly guilt/shame from that.

[randomlegend]

Is putting LIES in capitals supposed to discredit the fact they were, in fact, lies?

[Shindig]

I dunno, the vote to invoke article 50 was pretty one-sided.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Is putting LIES in capitals supposed to discredit the fact they were, in fact, lies?

Everyone tells lies in all elections but these ones now have to be special LIES because Remain fucked up and lost.

[randomlegend]

"It's OK because everyone does it"

[Jimmy Floyd]

If Remain had won then no one would give a fuck. They need something to blame for their own complacency and catastrophic failure, something that exonerates them completely from any kind of responsibility, so lies on a bus it is. It pretty much encapsulated the total defeat of post-Cold War centrist liberalism that Farage and Corbyn (and their equivalents abroad) have been eating away at for a decade or more.

When Ed Miliband lost in 2015 you didn't see him blaming TORY LIES, even though I'm sure the Tories told oodles of lies in that campaign. Ed was still happy with the world, give or take.

[Lewis]

I don't think any of it (from both sides) would technically class as 'lies', although using the government machinery to peddle wank was definitely worse than sending a bus out on a massive lol beano.

[Lewis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1MVZYtX5Zg

[Spikey M]

#AccidentalPartridge

[Shindig]

"Do you want some more glitter?"

[Giggles]

Get them printed off for the meet.


https://i.imgur.com/JBmRlnz.jpg

[Yevrah]

Surely they could have come up with something better than that?

[Giggles]

There’s loads of them out there so take your pick.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Dom threatening to deselect anyone who rebels, with a majority of 1, is pretty lol even by his standards. They are obviously trying to force a no confidence and think they will win the subsequent election.

[Lewis]

I liked the idea of Boris Johnson going to the European summit and voting against a new extension.

[Smjffy]

I said at the time that leaving the EU was only half the issue, the bigger issues were closer to home with our own shitty government(s). If I knew then what I know now, that we still hadn't left and we'd have gone through Cameron, May and now Johnson whilst Jeremy fucking Corbyn does the square root of fuck and that's without mentioning the absolute drivel we've been subjected to in the media, PMQ, Question Time etc. I won't pretend to know much about all this political business but I know enough to know that whatever happens, leave or remain, this country is well and truly fucked. There is nothing great about Great Britain, it is a sad pathetic country in reality.

[Offshore Toon]

What happened to Raab then? I remember a few of you lot loving him when he started gaining attention.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He is my MP, and has always been a total plastic charlatan.

[Byron]

I think the picture of the books on his windowsill probably killed him.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This is all lol. We seem to have got into a phase where the Remainers say they will nuke the earth, Cummings says he will nuke the solar system first, then the remainers nuke the universe, then Cummings nukes all of four dimensional time and space.

[Yevrah]

I'm holding firm on us not leaving.

[Giggles]

Well that was pointless.

[Yevrah]

It's interesting that Boris has said he believes we'll get a deal. I wonder if he truly has the minerals to take us out if he's allowed to.

[phonics]

‘It’s interesting the known liar told a lie’

[Yevrah]

And also the line that rebel MP's are looking for a three month delay. Just fucking come out and say you don't want to leave and campaign on that ticket instead. For the love of God.

[Yevrah]

‘It’s interesting the known liar told a lie’

He was under no obligation to say it and the remainer line is that he wants us out on no deal and whipping the Europeans left in the country after November, so what was the point in saying it?

[Yevrah]

Watching Hilary Benn now (who I quite like as it happens) there's absolutely no plan whatsoever from remain to do anything other than kick the can down the road, let alone actually get a deal.

Just band together and come out and say you don't want to leave and you'll be doing everything to stop it. By not, they're really not doing themselves any favours.

[Yevrah]

"There is no mandate for a no deal Brexit from the referendum result".

I mean, mate...

[phonics]

He was under no obligation to say it and the remainer line is that he wants us out on no deal and whipping the Europeans left in the country after November, so what was the point in saying it?

It’s called posturing. The entire point of the charade is so he can pretend ‘I didn’t want an election, these bloody remoaners forced me to’. Don’t be an idiot.

[Yevrah]

It’s called posturing. The entire point of the charade is so he can pretend ‘I didn’t want an election, these bloody remoaners forced me to’. Don’t be an idiot.

Less of the needless insults please. As I've already said upthread, I'm not convinced an election solves anything and I don't think Boris should be convinced of it either.

[phonics]

Taking anything Boris says at face value makes it not needless. He’s a complete charlatan who’s only involved in all this because he is obsessed with himself.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I imagine, subject to the Remainers not winning an election/something in parliament, we will get a last minute deal. Either the Euros will cave in, in which case great, or we will cave in, in which case Farage will scream SELLOUT!!! but it won't matter because we'll have left and his relevance will largely be over.

They need to have the election first though in order for the last bit to be true, or BXP will take loads of votes off them and possibly let a rainbow yoghurt eating coalition in.

If no one caves in and we leave without a deal, then Boris would be kicked out within six months and I don't think he wants that.

[Yevrah]

I mean, look at the attached:

https://www.markpack.org.uk/155623/voting-intention-opinion-poll-scorecard/

If Labour don't sit on the fence, which they couldn't in a general election scenario, there's a roughly even split between "No deal, get out" and "remain", who knows how some of the Tories would campaign as well. I know it's only polls, but I don't see how the actual result would be much different.

Seriously, an election is potentially so fucking retarded it's untrue.

[Lewis]

The proposed anti-No Deal bill appears to force the Prime Minister to agree to an extension to the end of time should the European Union insist on it. These people are retards.

[Kikó]

No deal is such a red herring as you'll still spend the next 5 years trying to sort a deal out on how we do business with the EU. It's actually going be similar if we leave with a deal as we have to then actually work out the longer term engagement (albeit with some sort of civility in place).

What a waste of time and money.

[niko_cee]

Labour voting down the possibility of a general election, having been asking for one for pretty much the entirety of this parliament is going to take this in an even more bafflingly lol direction. They just had some senile waxwork on Newsnight who looked like he was either having a stroke trying to understand what he was meant to say or was suffering from some sort of serious mental impairment, until some enforcer type called Mary (Creagh?) delivered the new line and he just said "yeah, what she said".

No deal, no brexit, no election, I can only assume that rise of the nazis thing the beeb rolled out tonight is meant to be prescient in some way.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It would be good if they reminded themselves sometimes that there is history that happened other than Nazi Germany.

[phonics]

Is there another political reference point for groups of facists who’s primary political goal is the preservation and supremacy of the traditional Anglo Saxon white race?

I presume you could say the National Front but I'm honestly not too sure how many people from our generation and below actually know what that is.

[Lewis]

I just wanted what the bus promised us mate slow down.

[Shindig]

Is there another political reference point for groups of facists who’s primary political goal is the preservation and supremacy of the traditional Anglo Saxon white race?


Oh, yeah. That ... errr... that's the masterplan right there. :cab:

[Spikey M]

This is what happens when you live life on Twitter.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There isn't a single fascist currently prominent in British politics.

[Giggles]

Britain's problem is they're still influenced by a past they never took ownership for. Even the Germans managed it in a short space of time. The school system is like a cult.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We would have managed that better if World War II hadn't got in the way and reinforced it all. Sometimes Irish critiques of us (and there are many) fail to understand the deep cultural effects of the entire population living through total war for six years still within living memory.

[Spikey M]

Isn't the Far Right growing in popularity in Germany? I'm aware that it is everywhere, but if Germany had really learned anything from their past they'd be bucking the trend.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Isn't the Far Right growing in popularity in Germany? I'm aware that it is everywhere, but if Germany had really learned anything from their past they'd be bucking the trend.

The far right isn't what Giggles is alluding to, it's more that a lot of the world hates us and finds us arrogant because we haven't admitted to our various colonial wrongs.

[Spikey M]

Haven't we? :cab:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not according to them. A lot of the intellectual classes in some ex-colonial states are consumed by bitterness about it to this day, rightly or wrongly.

[Lewis]

Equally Ireland's entire European policy owes itself to them being a squalid, vanquished people who need Europe to tell them what to do now the Catholic church has lost its all-consuming influence.

[Boydy]

We would have managed that better if World War II hadn't got in the way and reinforced it all. Sometimes Irish critiques of us (and there are many) fail to understand the deep cultural effects of the entire population living through total war for six years still within living memory.

The ones who lived through it generally aren't chest-beating nationalistic twats. It's the generation who came after who are utterly convinced they defeated Hitler and Britain is god's gift to the world under whose rule any inferior foreigners should consider themselves lucky.

[Ian]

Mark Francois defeated the Nazis himself, you ungrateful shit.

[Lewis]

This tends to permeate the remain message to a greater extent, with everything being about 'influence' and our perceived ability to 'stand up to China' as part of the European Union, as well as believing that we have and would continue to hold a disproportionate amount of sway within it. It's still exceptionalist wank, but made worse by their inability to recognise it (see also: people thinking the Second World War was fought for contemporary liberalism).

[Boydy]

Mark Francois defeated the Nazis himself, you ungrateful shit.
:D

He's exactly who I had in mind.

[randomlegend]

Britain's problem is they're still influenced by a past they never took ownership for. Even the Germans managed it in a short space of time. The school system is like a cult.

This is such a spectacularly bonkers/paranoid post :D

[Spikey M]

It's telling that all our dick heads have French names.

[Giggles]

Not according to them. A lot of the intellectual classes in some ex-colonial states are consumed by bitterness about it to this day, rightly or wrongly.

Of course you haven't :D
You're a nation where everything is the chest beating EMPIRE. The fact you can't even see it just proves exactly what I've said. You're also the root cause of almost every conflict on the planet but the party line is that there should be more gratitude for it from the "savages" you pillaged.

[Giggles]

The ones who lived through it generally aren't chest-beating nationalistic twats. It's the generation who came after who are utterly convinced they defeated Hitler and Britain is god's gift to the world under whose rule any inferior foreigners should consider themselves lucky.

Bingo.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Of course you haven't :D
You're a nation where everything is the chest beating EMPIRE. The fact you can't even see it just proves exactly what I've said. You're also the root cause of almost every conflict on the planet but the party line is that there should be more gratitude for it from the "savages" you pillaged.

There is a bit of that but it's far more complex than you make out. Nobody nowadays would talk about savages, and most people would acknowledge the ill effects of the historical Empire. However, what we do not do (which is done very directly in former colonial nations) is link it immediately to today's society. Nobody living in the UK now gives a rat's arse about what our great-grandfathers did prior to 1940, because we don't feel it or see the consequences. People in the countries still feel it and that is why they become upset by our opposite attitude.

As with all these things there is nothing any of us can do about it.

[Spikey M]

Nobody living in the UK now gives a rat's arse about what our great-grandfathers did prior to 1940, because we don't feel it or see the consequences.

And too right as well. I don't really see why I should feel any guilt about what my ancestors may or may not have done. Judge me on my own shit.

We wouldn't drag the Germans over hot coals over world wa.... fuck.

But seriously. Public opinion on Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria is very telling. We aren't the country that stood alone in defiance of Hitler any more. You'll get the odd loon that feels that way, but most of us want no part in any wars kicking off. That it's in some way linked to what the UK was up to 100 years ago is not my concern.

[Lewis]

The colonials/savages tend to fall between presenting themselves as having been completely passive for the bad things and overly-involved in the good things. The Indians are the worst offenders, but they're all at it.

[Ian]

So a guy just defected while Boris was addressing the Commons?

Excellent stuff.

[Yevrah]

Is the vote and result tonight? And if so, what are they actually voting on?

[phonics]

This image has set me off.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/464147082253434911/618506111804375040/unknown.png

It will and forever will be a 50/50 issue. We will be arguing about the rights of fisherman in the channel despite not being or knowing a fisherman until we die.

[Yevrah]

Vote was closer than I perhaps expected, but an election looms closer.

I'll be getting the snacks in for that one.

[Giggles]

For all the stupid little terms and all, this shit could be on Netflix.

[Yevrah]

:D

I've taken to watching BBC Parliament now.

[Baz]

What’s the haps? The woman next to me at work makes passing comments about “parliament” and I’ve never any idea what she’s even on about. Was at least two weeks before I even realised Boris was PM.

[Yevrah]

It's an omni-shambles of previously unseen proportions Baz.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

'Not a good start, Boris' :D

[Shindig]

Well, looks like I'm voting Lib Dem for the first time in my life. It never should've come to that.

[Yevrah]

I've got absolutely no idea how I'll be voting. They're all a shower of shit.

[Lewis]

If they actually take the whip off of all the whoppers. :drool:

[Giggles]

:harold: :harold: :harold:

1168980398166237185


1168998421446955008

[Lewis]

That seems like a bold thing to post as you once again vote to trash parliamentary convention to get your own way.

[randomlegend]

Isn't the boi you're supporting trying to just shut the whole thing down to 'get his own way'?

Also Mogg is just a god-awful human being.

[phonics]

Boris going from having a go at Obama for moving a bust of Churchill to removing the mans grandson from the Conservative Party is quite something.

[Ian]

Yeah but trying your best to run the country into the ground for personal gain is fine so long as you adhere to the arcane rules while you do it and hum Rule Britannia every so often.

[Lewis]

Yeah, but he isn't flexing on Twitter for thicko clout.

[Lewis]

Boris going from having a go at Obama for moving a bust of Churchill to removing the mans grandson from the Conservative Party is quite something.

Let's not pretend Nicholas Soames hasn't always been an absolute waste of space.

[phonics]

Let's not pretend Nicholas Soames hasn't always been an absolute waste of space.

No argument there but let's not pretend that Boris wasn't once again feigning anger like the charlatan he is to get votes off people who didn't like the black guy.

[Lewis]

Unfortunately I suspect he did actually care about that.

[Jimmy Floyd]

How many of the whip-stripped (sounds kinky) are in marginal seats, or seats that could be lost? Sounds a bit risky to do in that many of them.

[Boydy]

1169016196412448769

:drool:

[Spoonsky]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66TzNv1gKL4

This is unreal. What's going on at the end there? :D

[Queenslander]

:D

[Giggles]

Back to who's really running the country. Bill from Sheffield will be seething his cornflakes into him this morning while muttering about Churchill.


1169008165461123074

[Spikey M]

Whether we have a General Election, another Referendum or both, there's no way Remain wins after this shit show. Half the remain voters, myself included, would vote BREXIT purely to spite these cunts.

[Shindig]

That's a room full of 600 cunts enjoying themselves too much.

[Kikó]

Back to who's really running the country. Bill from Sheffield will be seething his cornflakes into him this morning while muttering about Churchill.


1169008165461123074

It's absolutely reckless that kind of shit.

[randomlegend]

The trio of Gove, Boris and Mogg on that front bench is enough to make your stomach churn. What a rancid bunch.

[Spikey M]

The trio of Gove, Boris and Mogg on that front bench is enough to make your stomach churn. What a rancid bunch.

1169138742134747136?s=19

[Ian]

1168996256653463552

[Jimmy Floyd]

I hope for their sake that the Remain lot don't think they've won. If there's an election under current circumstances then Cummings could kidnap and rip apart a ten year old child and drink their blood live on TV, as long as his message discipline remains in place then almost nothing will have any effect on voters.

People do not care about who has the whip or any other process shit.

[Ian]

No, it's still all definitely going to shit but at least there's been a couple of extra lols along the way.

[Alex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66TzNv1gKL4

This is unreal. What's going on at the end there? :D

Cringeworthy.

I think a lot of them are under the impression that there is some sort of antiquated charm attached the way they carry on in that building. But in reality it's just fucking embarrassing.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Bercow will always be the worst person in there, despite the efforts of all the others. He is just absurd.

[randomlegend]

They're all absurd. You wouldn't let children behave the way they do. It's utterly fucking bizarre that it's mostly just accepted.

[mugbull]

The UK is just the US on a 4 year delay

[Jimmy Floyd]

Other way round, and 200 years instead of 4.

[Giggles]

Yeah, colonial savages 200 years behind the empire.

What’s tonight’s vote about anyway? Just a repeat of last nights to see can anyone be pressured to change and, if so, how many can they do until the right answer is reached?

[Yevrah]

Whether no deal should be taken off the table completely, at least until there's an election.

So we'll be doing it all again in November.

[niko_cee]

Did I read rightly somewhere that this no deal bill is going to be amended so THE DEAL can be voted on again? The ultimate comeback. Isn't that the most logical (only?) course of action if you both want to leave but don't want a NO DEAL in any circumstances?

I also saw some lib dem peer had pitched up with a duvet, obviously in homage to Harvey Yevrage. It is all starting to feel a bit end of days-y.

[Yevrah]

It's proper fucked and I suspect one would be hard pushed to find a more shambolic governing state of affairs in another first world country at the moment, perhaps even second world.

[Giggles]

So it's all because May gave in too handy basically? Especially without the consent of her 17th century masters in Belfast.

[Disco]

It's more that there's a huge inertia around changing the status quo, plus they're all used to bumbling along not doing very much so throw anything vaguely complex at them and they all fall to bits.

[phonics]

It's proper fucked and I suspect one would be hard pushed to find a more shambolic governing state of affairs in another first world country at the moment, perhaps even second world.

You must be joking.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Great big girl's blouse :lol:

[Giggles]

The EU are naturally going to sell us out on the backstop thing but at least holding on with it this long has provided huge entertainment for everyone. How they eventually spin it and the fall out crying from the shinners will be equally as funny. I’d say we’ll see some momentous and sickly “friends forever” thing on Monday after Vradkar and Johnson meet here under strict orders from the top brass on the continent.

[Spikey M]

So it's all because May gave in too handy basically? Especially without the consent of her 17th century masters in Belfast.

It's because

A) there's no incentive for the EU to give us a good deal
B) 3 quarters of MP's don't want to leave
C) Nobody is willing to budge on anything.

[Yevrah]

You must be joking.

Great addition.

[phonics]

Sorry I was going to edit in but decided to leave work instead.

In the west, The American government literally shutdown for a month this year. In the east, the Lebanese Prime Minister was kidnapped by the Saudi Royal Family. I haven’t even got to the parliamentary punch ups.

[bruhnaldo]

I mean don't you sorta feel like your government has been 'shut down' for two years based entirely on Brexit or nah.

[phonics]

Figuratively maybe? You literally didn’t pay welfare checks or your military for a month.

[niko_cee]

When was the last time the government won a vote?

[Yevrah]

I might have over-egged it then, but we've literally accomplished nothing in over 3 years of fucking about with this and are on the cusp of asking for an extension that will take that to over 3 and a half years.

If the vote had gone the way it did but instead of setting about sorting a deal etc. the entire team working on Brexit had just fucked off to the pub for 42 months, would we actually be any further away from sorting it than we are now?

[Yevrah]

1169284336635523074

200? Fucking hell.

[mikem]

Figuratively maybe? You literally didn’t pay welfare checks or your military for a month.

We are utterly ridiculous but this is “literally” false. Both of those got paid.

I’d argue that the UK is doing better than us because of the mess. I won’t claim to understand it but it seems you’ve been stuck in constitutional crisis for 40 odd years because ceding legislative power to the EU violates the principle of Parliament alone deciding legislative affairs. Now Parliament seems to be reminding the executive of the same point. I’d prefer our legislators be as messy.

[Giggles]

200 complete votes like last night?

[Jimmy Floyd]

There have been 100 amendments inserted into the bill by the government no deal loyalists to try and delay it for days (each needs 2 votes), so the remain Lords are duly setting off to get through them all.

[Disco]

I might have over-egged it then, but we've literally accomplished nothing in over 3 years of fucking about with this and are on the cusp of asking for an extension that will take that to over 3 and a half years.

And the sky has not fallen in.

Which tells you how much you should worry about whatever would have been so very important had this not been going on.

[Yevrah]

And the sky has not fallen in.

It's not a million miles from doing so though. The £ is shot to shit, confidence (in my industry at least) is as low as I've seen it outside an actual recession, businesses don't have a clue what to do in the event of us leaving on a no deal and no-one knows when or how this will end.

The Sky doesn't need to be falling for there to be an actual problem.

[Kikó]

Yeah if you ignore all public services failing, all is great. Jesus Christ.

[Yevrah]

I'm agreeing with you here Phonics, but it stands to reason if you spend three years of time, energy and money on something and get no further forward fatigue from doing so is going to hit in at some point.

[Disco]

The pound has been on the slide for years and public services have been failing for the last 100 years.

[Giggles]

1169265030287810561

[Shindig]

We really don't know what to do when a power vacuum presents itself, do we?

[Yevrah]

These speeches are absolutely pointless. Not a single person in there is going to change their minds so just get on with the fucking voting and give the speechwriters the rest of the week of.

[Yevrah]

The Scots have taken the stage now, in what a appears to be a stirring honouring of the 25th anniversary of Braveheart.

We really should have fucked them off by now.

[Giggles]

The Scots have taken the stage now, in what a appears to be a stirring honouring of the 25th anniversary of Braveheart.

We really should have fucked them off by now.

They seem to be about 20 years closer to another referendum than they ever looked when they shat the last one.