UK General Election 2017 - 8 June

[Henry]

Everybody should. What they do behind closed doors is nobody else's business but their own. This was outlined before. It's been outlined many, many times.

Many, many times when the subject of homosexuality arose. Never otherwise.

[GS]

Because it's only ever been discussed in the context of things like Pride.

You're insufferably thick. It's beyond parody.

[Magic]

Sure you guys are one step away from full on cock docking.

[GS]

I pretty much gave up on policy discussion when he demonstrated that was he utterly incapable of grasping the distinction between on-shore and off-shore tax revenues ('changing the subject' when you're talking about corporation tax - I mean, for fuck sake), but this is a true nadir.

[Kikó]

Another Tory saying the n word.

[phonics]

Another Tory saying the n word.

:D

[Magic]

I pretty much gave up on policy discussion when he demonstrated that was he utterly incapable of grasping the distinction between on-shore and off-shore tax revenues ('changing the subject' when you're talking about corporation tax - I mean, for fuck sake), but this is a true nadir.

:D

@Kiko I take it back, your meet sounds positively thrilling compared to this outrageous banter. Like going out for dinner with William Ulsterman.

[Henry]

I pretty much gave up on policy discussion when he demonstrated that was he utterly incapable of grasping the distinction between on-shore and off-shore tax revenues ('changing the subject' when you're talking about corporation tax - I mean, for fuck sake), but this is a true nadir.

I reciprocate a lack of respect for your tunnel-vision (everything is about accountancy) and lack of self-awareness.

[Jimmy Floyd]

How hard can it be not to say 'nigger' in public?

[Lewis]

It now seems to have moved onto why John Redwood never told her off. Lads, do you really want to go down that road?

[GS]

Not a cult.

[Magic]

How hard can it be not to say 'nigger' in public?

What was the context? Did she say it to Diane Abbott if so all is forgiven hehe.

[Spoonsky]

She went on: "Now we get to the real nigger in the woodpile, which is in two years what happens if there is no deal."

What on earth :D

Since when do MPs talk like 19th century slaveholders from Georgia?

[GS]

It was a fairly common expression about thirty or forty years ago. Although obviously anybody in elected office should know fucking rightly not to be saying such things. The whip has been withdrawn, which is the most they can do unless she willingly stands down.

[phonics]

It was a fairly common expression about thirty or forty years ago. Although obviously anybody in elected office should know fucking rightly not to be saying such things. The whip has been withdrawn, which is the most they can do unless she willingly stands down.

Fairly common :D

An MP was admonished for it in 1993 ffs. Stop playing the fan.

[Magic]

Fairly common :D

An MP was admonished for it in 1993 ffs. Stop playing the fan.

Yeah play the white man GS.

[GS]

You understand I was addressing Spoon's point regarding why they were talking like 19th century slaveholders by pointing out that it wasn't an uncommon expression in the UK a number of decades ago, right?

Because if you understood that, you'd see that you were missing the point.

[phonics]

'Racists used to say it back in the 80s' isn't 'it was fairly common'. Don't supply false context.

[GS]

Not that I wish to go there, because he annoys me, but whatever:

884446615033049088

It doesn't mean it was okay then either, you know.

[phonics]

The son of a Lord born in 1960 heard a racist comment alot? I'm shocked.

[GS]

I'm glad we're agreed on the matter now.

[Spikey M]

I reciprocate a lack of respect for your tunnel-vision (everything is about accountancy) and lack of self-awareness.

In fairness politics is 90% accountancy. Whether that's directing spending or fiddling the figures.

[Magic]

It's weird when phonics agrees with you he comes across as he's trying to argue. What a total and utter melt of a human being.

[phonics]

Melt is apparently racist now I've heard, 10 points.

[Magic]

Melt is apparently racist now I've heard, 10 points.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsKA1rXCYAA8IHh.jpg

[phonics]

100 points.

[Spikey M]

"Now we get to the real nigger in the woodpile".

What a fucking stupid thing to ruin your career over. Go full Kramer or just don't bother.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The bad news is ever since I heard it this afternoon I've had 'Nigger in the woodpile I know, I know, it's serio-o-ous' going around my head.

I mean, first rule of being in public life is don't say nigger. I reckon pooing on the table or getting her tits out in the Commons would have got her into less trouble.

[Raoul Duke]

The bad news is ever since I heard it this afternoon I've had 'Nigger in the woodpile I know, I know, it's serio-o-ous' going around my head.

I mean, first rule of being in public life is don't say nigger. I reckon pooing on the table or getting her tits out in the Commons would have got her into less trouble.

Combine all three (singing the racist Smiths crossover) for full effect

[Shindig]

It's like that time I kept throwing up black power salutes during that Public Enemy gig. Turns out white men can't pull that off.

[Disco]

Not often Mutant Abbot is in the news, thank god.

[phonics]

http://i.imgur.com/oQ5oovG.png

http://i.imgur.com/OLU6gXs.png
lol

[GS]

884789639390822400

Oh, look, there's Jeremy hanging out with more thoroughly unpleasant people.

I reckon he's just stupid.

[niko_cee]

Give up mate. Just try and work out how to position yourself best to benefit when he gets a run at things and massively tanks the economy on the back of a "fully costed" manifesto.

Probably go against everything you believe in and pile on some debt which he can hyperinflate away for you.

[GS]

To be fair, I'm already considering what you'd need to do to protect your assets. Things like a Cyprus-style levy on all cash bank accounts probably wouldn't be far away if he was actually in charge.

You'd have to, really, given we'd be economically fucked.

[Lewis]

The irony would be that GS would thrive with his accountancy skills, where as all of the Labour-voting tossers who work in things like marketing and the 'cultural sector' would be put to death as parasites and saboteurs. He could even do the books at the camps, to really rub it in.

[Magic]

What's wrong with having dinner with someone even if they're a cunt?

[GS]

The irony would be that GS would thrive with his accountancy skills, where as all of the Labour-voting tossers who work in things like marketing and the 'cultural sector' would be put to death as parasites and saboteurs. He could even do the books at the camps, to really rub it in.

I'd probably make use of tax havens as well, because why not.

[phonics]

The irony would be that GS would thrive with his accountancy skills, where as all of the Labour-voting tossers who work in things like marketing and the 'cultural sector' would be put to death as parasites and saboteurs. He could even do the books at the camps, to really rub it in.

Mate, who do you think makes the propaganda? It's you with your book deals and upper body strength that's going straight to bash rocks on some island off Scotland renamed Castro Del Sol.

At least we can agree that every columnist going is straight in the gulag. Have Toby Young mouthing off about the uncouth conditions to Piers Morgan and Polly Toynbee. It's not all bad.

[Magic]

Parliawint can be set fire to.

[phonics]

Parliawint is a .xml file.

[Magic]

So is your brain.

[Reg]

Lewis has given up pretending he's not a Tory, I see.

[phonics]

So is your brain.

It's actually a .png.

http://i.imgur.com/GmsdwY0.png

[Magic]

It's a corrupt .dll

[GS]

Lewis has given up pretending he's not a Tory, I see.

You've been paying attention, it seems.

[Lewis]

I'm far too right-wing for Toryism.

[Lewis]

In not-at-all related news, this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40574754) is good. You Can't Do Anything Anymore pt. 209486.


Philipps, who defended himself throughout the trial, said his posts had been simply reflecting how he and others felt

What a brilliant defence.

[phonics]

'A man who is his own lawyer, has a fool for a client'

[Spoonsky]

And this:


But Philipps denied the allegation that his posts were "racially aggravated" saying that describing Ms Miller as a "boat jumper" and that she should go back to the "steaming jungle" were "statements of fact not a racist comment at all".

[Lewis]

He sounds like a bit of a legend.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Custodial sentence?

One day I'll have to just stop following the news.

[GS]

It's almost as if the judicial branch are still struggling to work the internet out.

[GS]

https://order-order.com/2017/07/12/welsh-labours-stunning-tuition-fees-hypocrisy/

That's going to go well for them.

[Lewis]

885117854164692992

Well I lolled.

[GS]

Uncanny.

[GS]

https://www.ft.com/content/1d500f02-6722-11e7-8526-7b38dcaef614


By basing its European headquarters in Dublin and channelling its profits through Ireland, Google was able to pay only €5m in corporate tax in France in 2014 compared with revenues that year of €225.4m, according to the company’s filings.


:wall:

[John Arne]

https://www.ft.com/content/1d500f02-6722-11e7-8526-7b38dcaef614



:wall:

I can't read the article - but what on earth is the FT doing making such a basic mistake - is their any justification in the article?

[GS]

None, unfortunately. Then again, it was a story about how Google have successfully challenged a billion-plus fine that originally arose because of their tax-avoidance activities, so you suspect the journalist in question was SEETHING and wanted to make a point.

[GS]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/everyones-out-for-boris/

One for you, Floyd.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I personally think the answer lies on the back benches. Somebody without baggage.

[GS]

I'd agree. The problem is they're not going from the backbenches to No 10 and doing so without cabinet experience. So unless May promotes new people now you're going to have to look in the current cabinet.

It'd be different in opposition. I still think they'll end up with Davis through lack of other serious options.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Are you? Jeremy seemed to manage.

[GS]

It's fine if you're in opposition. Not when you're going straight into the post-Brexit clusterfuck.

[Lewis]

David Davis is about ten years older than I thought he was, so realistically he is out. I saw somebody touting the other Johnson recently. That could work.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He even looks like a mid-ranking Nazi, so should be right at home in the corridors of Brussels.

[GS]

Davis' age might let him get the backing of younger MPs though, because everybody knows he's not going to do a Cameron-style eleven year stint.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Davis is fucking awful. I don't know how people don't see through him. I'd rather have Clay Davis.

[GS]

All of the prospective options are terrible.

[Henry]

That's a given since they're Tories... :henn0rz:

[GS]

The OBR have their latest fiscal risk analysis out, which some of you may find interesting: here (http://cdn.budgetresponsibility.org.uk/July_2017_Fiscal_risks.pdf)

The revenue risks section, beginning on page 93, is instructive. One of its key conclusions is that we're over-reliant on income from high-earning individuals, and our receipts are thus susceptible to economic shocks that impact higher earners to a greater degree:


5.128 Changes in the tax regime over recent years have seen tax receipts concentrated among an increasingly small number of individuals. Between 2007-08 and 2017-18, the number of income tax payers is expected to fall from 32.5 to 30.3 million, with the proportion of tax paid by the top 1 per cent of taxpayers rising from 24.4 to 27.7 per cent. Receipts have also become more reliant on volatile and highly concentrated taxes such as SDLT and CGT, which have together doubled to 1.0 per cent of GDP since the financial crisis and where the top few per cent of transactions account for more than half of receipts.

5.129 In the medium term, this makes our receipts forecasts particularly vulnerable to shocks that affect high earners (like a potential negative impact of Brexit on the financial sector) or crises that hit asset markets (such as in the stress test in Chapter 9). In the long term, increasing reliance on a small number of taxpayers is likely to make receipts more volatile and harder to forecast, especially as high earners are more mobile and have greater scope to plan their tax affairs.

5.130 In terms of some of the characteristics set out in Chapter 1, the risks of concentration have built up gradually and continuously over the past decade, mainly as a consequence of incremental changes to the tax system. They are largely endogenous, reflecting mainly Government policy decisions to the structure of tax systems. Concentration is also correlated with macroeconomic risks, as it magnifies the effect on receipts of a variety of shocks, particularly those on earnings and asset prices.

[phonics]

I thought you didn't believe in financial forecasting because it's always bollocks?

[GS]

Forecasts are only as good as the assumptions you put in. They're never going to be right, but the discrepancy between forecast and actual can be controlled, to a reasonable level, by how sensible your assumptions are.

You'll find, should you read the document, that their analysis is heavily based on historical trend and actual data available (e.g. CGT). They're also a neutral body with no agenda to push.

[Lewis]

Fraser Nelson always posts that statistic about the highest earners paying loads of tax, and then you get a bunch of wallies calling it proof that even higher rates are required. Think it through, and then try again.

[GS]

Much like Martin Lewis and tuition fees, then.

[GS]

Private Eye is great.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEpGDPPXoAA2u4F.jpg

[Boydy]

That image took ages to load for me but I already knew what it was going to be.

[GS]

It looks like Spreadsheet Phil could be about to embroil himself in a SEXISM row. Forty years ago, everybody would just have laughed with him and piled in.

[Boydy]

I didn't really take that in properly at first and for some reason thought it said 'sex scandal' rather than 'sexism row'. That'd have been more fun.

[niko_cee]

More fun until Edwina Currie's role came to light, then just horrifying.

[GS]

To be fair, it would be the most interesting thing that Spreadsheet Phil has ever said so fair play to him.

In other news, lol:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEup__hXgAIUDOj.jpg

[Boydy]

Tbf, I looked up Hammond's wife and he's punching quite a bit above his weight so he definitely shouldn't be getting himself into any sex scandals.

[Lewis]

I saw a job advert for a relatively minor role in London transport the other day and the benefits that came with it were mental. Free London travel for you and a designated mate, private healthcare (lol), discounts coming out of your arse... If pay gap nonsense is to be believed then women could never stand a chance of negotiating those perks for themselves, so not only is he a sexist he is a wrong sexist.

[GS]

I think if people truly understood some of the benefits that people are getting in the public sector, there would be far less aggravation over AUSTERITY.

[niko_cee]

Someone was bemoaning a similar thing to me yesterday, that public sector workers get paid up to 25% more than their private sector counterparts [he had it being down to the relative equality in pay across very unequal regions] which is why you see some areas where virtually every bugger [who works] working for the state. I've no idea how true that is, although it does seem to be borne out by some older newspaper claims. No pay rises though. Just massively inflated pay in the first place.

[Shindig]

Yeah, I'd rather not think what the DWP fellas are being paid.

[Henry]

War criminal Tony Blair has had another go at Corbyn. Should do him good.

[Lewis]

I'm simply saying if we were looking at this from the point of view of the interests of the country, one option within this negotiation would be Britain staying within a reformed European Union.

Remember when the Eurosceptics were the mentalists?

[Disco]

War criminal Tony Blair has had another go at terrorist sympathiser Corbyn. Should do him good.

If we're being balanced.

[GS]

Someone was bemoaning a similar thing to me yesterday, that public sector workers get paid up to 25% more than their private sector counterparts [he had it being down to the relative equality in pay across very unequal regions] which is why you see some areas where virtually every bugger [who works] working for the state. I've no idea how true that is, although it does seem to be borne out by some older newspaper claims. No pay rises though. Just massively inflated pay in the first place.

They've also got very advantageous pensions, which most private sector employers can't afford to match.

As an aside, your point on massively inflated pay to begin with is fair. I read the other day that when you control for various factors (e.g. education), public sector pay is still about 3% higher than the private sector. The gap between the two is normalising. It's much the same as using 2007/08 financial figures as a comparative base. It's all fair and well saying that, for example, private sector or public sector pay hasn't increased since then. The reality, however, is that the entire economy was built on air for several years so people were getting pay increases / remuneration packages that were utterly unsustainable. Certain things may have stagnated, but that's a reflection of the unsustainably inflated nature of it to begin with.

It's also worth pointing out that public sector workers, even if their pay was frozen for two years and then increasing by 1% thereafter, would be taking home substantially more than 2010 owing to changes in income tax and NIC. Someone on £15K a year will have seen their actual take home increase by £2.1K (18% or 2.0% p.a. equivalent) over that period. Even someone on £27K, which is around the average wage, has had over a 13% increase in take-home (or 1.6% p.a. equivalent).

Obviously the tax changes have been far more beneficial to lower earners, but the changes in the tax system mean that it benefits all lower earners in take-home. If we'd used the cash to fund public sector pay increases instead, we'd simply have shafted the private sector further.

I'm not averse to public sector pay increases where there's a retention issue, but there really needs to be a sensible discussion about what the actual situation is relative to private sector packages.

[GS]

Remember when the Eurosceptics were the mentalists?

I'm not sure what he hopes to achieve with it. He mustn't realise his contributions are counter-productive.

[Lewis]

Having some sort of regional pay system would presumably take a lot of the problems away. You can sympathise with people in the South East being shat on by rents and what have you, but up here the existing increases will obviously go a lot further.

Elsewhere, Nick Clegg reckons there should be another referendum, but this time the under-thirties get two votes. That would establish an interesting precedent as to who has the greater interest in society.

[GS]

There's already a London-based increment to public sector pay, as far as I'm aware - but none elsewhere. As you say, they should overhaul public sector pay by introducing regional rates but they should also sack off 'equality' and bring in performance related pay elements. It would help to tackle retention issues by incentivising workers.

The issue would be forcing regional rates through. People in Hull would presumably go apeshit, whilst those in the south-east would be fully behind it. You'd never get away with cutting salaries, so you'd end up capping it for years in shitter areas whilst the cash was ploughed into the south-east, London etc. until the two reached a 'normalised' level relative to housing and living costs in those areas.

It'd never last, because sound public finances can be overlooked in pursuit of votes, and we'd end up in the same place again.

[Yevrah]

Two votes for the under 30s? There are no words.

[Lewis]

I'm sure you could sell increased pay for Southerners with appeals to union solidarity.

[GS]

Perhaps, but then you'd have Labour claiming it's "unequal", "a disgrace" and "clear politicking to cap wages in Labour areas". The politics of the thing is inescapable, unfortunately. One need only look at the way masses swallowed the Corbyn manifesto and asked for seconds to see how critical analysis of policies barely matters any more.

[GS]

Two votes for the under 30s? There are no words.

I thought Lewis was joking. :D

We should have voting determined by how much taxation you're paying. Pay Taxation, Have Representation. There's your slogan. We can disenfranchise people who expect something for nothing then.

[Adamski]

I thought Lewis was joking. :D

We should have voting determined by how much taxation you're paying. Pay Taxation, Have Representation. There's your slogan. We can disenfranchise people who expect something for nothing then.

Who would Lewis vote for then?

[GS]

I haven't worked out the details, but presumably you'd have exceptions for people who would vote Conservative.

[Magic]

I thought Lewis was joking. :D

We should have voting determined by how much taxation you're paying. Pay Taxation, Have Representation. There's your slogan. We can disenfranchise people who expect something for nothing then.

Lol what. So the rich would dictate our lives.

#nodifference #richdontpaytaxanyway

[GS]

You know I'm not serious, right? It's probably important to highlight that now, before there's a pile in.

[Magic]

You know I'm not serious, right? It's probably important to highlight that now, before there's a pile in.

There's no boundary to your arrogance and distorted world views so I'm glad you clarified that.

[GS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEzV5UxXUAADcc3.jpg

This is great. We're apparently going to give people a pay increase by taxing them more to pay for it. A two percent pay increase and probably a two pence in the pound increase in income tax to pay for it. Well done, everyone.

[GS]

Jess Phillips there, failing to understand how statutory instruments work. Just an elected official not understanding how parliament works.

:face:

[phonics]

You're at least going to have to give some context...

[niko_cee]

It's probably something to the effect that the repeal bill thing gives ministers power(s) to derogate from/scrap aspects of EU law without consulting parliament, but the way they are supposed to do it is via SI which can be debated (although often aren't), so it's a bit of a false argument.

[GS]

They'll do it via SI, which requires explicit (affirmative) or implicit (negative) consent of parliament. Ergo nothing will be left on the statute books without consent of parliament.

There's a certain irony in pro-EU types complaining about it as well.

To be fair, this is the MP who wrote a letter about the Ched Evans case complaining that a particular Act didn't 'intend' something, as if the vague and open to interpretation 'intention' should trump what the legislation actually says. So maybe we shouldn't be surprised.

[niko_cee]

There's a certain irony in pro-EU types complaining about it as well.


Aye. Entirely lost on them though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've particularly been enjoying the 'we shouldn't leave the EU because it's too complicated/difficult/costly to do so' argument of late. That's literally the best argument for leaving.

[phonics]

I've particularly been enjoying the 'we shouldn't leave the EU because it's too complicated/difficult/costly to do so' argument of late. That's literally the best argument for leaving.

There was a piece in I think, The Spectator that said that this should have been a leave campaign point but everyone involved was too cowardly to explain how difficult the process is which is why they all look like complete berks now.

[Henry]

I've particularly been enjoying the 'we shouldn't leave the EU because it's too complicated/difficult/costly to do so' argument of late. That's literally the best argument for leaving.

Nonsense. By that logic, Scotland (and Wales and Cornwall and everyone else who fancies it) should leave the UK and we know you're against that.

[Disco]

The UK isn't rubbish though.

[phonics]

The UK isn't rubbish though.

Have you seen the last couple of years?

[Henry]

The UK isn't rubbish though.

That's a different argument though, isn't it?

[GS]

Nonsense. By that logic, Scotland (and Wales and Cornwall and everyone else who fancies it) should leave the UK and we know you're against that.

Well, that's stupid.

[Henry]

Well, that's stupid.

It is stupid. Hence "by that logic".

[John]

Nonsense. By that logic, Scotland (and Wales and Cornwall and everyone else who fancies it) should leave the UK and we know you're against that.

For this to happen things would have to proceed using different logic. You really must stop being a colossal idiot in order to oppose the points you disagree with. There are legitimate arguments against what Floyd said there, there's no reason to be thick.

[niko_cee]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who struggled with the jump from untangling a supranational trade body run wild to the dissolution of all states into locally autonomous areas.

[Henry]

For this to happen things would have to proceed using different logic. You really must stop being a colossal idiot in order to oppose the points you disagree with. There are legitimate arguments against what Floyd said there, there's no reason to be thick.

Floyd's point was stupid, and my objection holds. That something is horrendously difficult is no reason in itself to do it. To that end, I gave an example of something else that would be horrendously difficult to do which we (or most of us) agree shouldn't be done.

I am, for the record, not in favour of the government backtracking on the decision to leave, given how undemocratic that would be. But there must be more effort to minimise the very nasty side effects of leaving and that includes not taking such a dogmatic and confrontational stance.

[GS]

I think his point is that the complexity demonstrates the level of 'infiltration' (for lack of a better word) of the EU into such a vast range of legislation and national life. What was originally sold as a trade partnership is now a huge supranational organisation claiming competence over vast tracts of domestic law.

It's a perfectly serviceable riposte to pro EU types by highlighting that level of infiltration and thus the undemocratic behemoth it's become. That it's not simply a question of trade, but rather it has subsumed significantly more areas of domestic law which Joe Public probably doesn't even know about.

'Side effects' can be mitigated through a transition period, but there's no question we should be out of the central bodies and jurisdictions that membership entails.

[Lewis]

It's not so much that it is the best argument for leaving, it's that the same dickheads now making it spent years telling us that it barely did anything.

[GS]

I'd say Peak Wanker was hit when some of them complained it was so complicated that we couldn't justify the effort, and then within a week of the result complained there was no plan.

I'll genuinely never understand the vehement pro EU sentiment. It's batshit.

[Lewis]

You're not a Citizen of the World like them.

[John]

'The Scottish Government', an ostensibly official Facebook page, has released another video to add to their 'never rape' wall of shame. It's about how you should react if you move to shake the hand of someone you know but have never met and it turns out their right arm is missing from the elbow. A hard hitting, socially relevant work.

[niko_cee]

That's a one up on the old 'grab the fist pump?' dilemma.

[John]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iglTxehHD0

While looking for that on YouTube, I've discovered that there's also a video from the same source telling you that it's okay to offer help making tea to a struggling woman in a wheelchair.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h4pF87yU0k

What the fuck are we doing?

[GS]

Fucking hell. :face:

Is that not deeply patronising to everybody concerned?

[Magic]

Get Past The Awkward...rape!

[Spikey M]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iglTxehHD0

While looking for that on YouTube, I've discovered that there's also a video from the same source telling you that it's okay to offer help making tea to a struggling woman in a wheelchair.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h4pF87yU0k

What the fuck are we doing?

Sir Andy Mahowry

[GS]

These supposed 'moderates' really are fucking useless, aren't they.

887051215137378305

[John]

'Shadow Digital Minister' is very obviously a username from the dawn of online gaming.

[niko_cee]

Is anyone sticking to the no, he's still shit position on Jez or are they all just sucking it up now?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Brexit will break them, as it has already broken the Tories. I saw a stat about every Tory PM since Heath being killed by Europe and it's true.

[GS]

Is anyone sticking to the no, he's still shit position on Jez or are they all just sucking it up now?

Apparently only two of them didn't give him a standing ovation for losing even more badly than Gordon Brown did in the first PLP meeting after the election. Apparently things like his Marxism and terrorist sympathising can be quietly swept under the carpet if it's convenient. On a similar note, Dan Hannan is going BERSERK at the country putting up a statue of Engels. Which is probably fair enough.

On Brexit, it's going to rip them both apart - the Tories because they've never been able to agree on it anyway (as you say, they've all shafted themselves on Europe in some guise) and Labour because there's simply no way they keep the immigrant bashers in the north and the Citizens of the World (copyright, Robert Peston) in the south happy at the same time. They're going to royally fuck one of them off. They've already been letting the students down gently on tuition fees, so you can only hope there's some sort of RECKONING with the electorate as per the Lib Dems.

[Reg]

Are those videos not useful? It's not like they'll have spent a tonne of money of them, unless they've been really silly.

[GS]

They're patronising.

In other news, the Poles are currently in the process of trying to destroy judicial independence and intimidate dissenting politicians.

[Magic]

'Shadow Digital Minister' is very obviously a username from the dawn of online gaming.

Phonics dream job.

[phonics]

Yeah, love regulating the internet me.

[Lewis]

Speaking of which, who do these cunts (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40638343) think they are?

[phonics]

The ASA is useless because it's not like they review stuff before it goes up, they just draw up guidelines that if someone complains and they find you've broken one, they axe it. So you've spent thousands making a campaign only for some berk in an office to tell you 'Thats bad now'.

[Lewis]

Yes, but at least they're there to protect us from gendered adverts.

[phonics]

The funny thing about it is, it's actually done for MRA's but they'll be the biggest complainers about it because the word 'gender' is in there.

[Magic]

Yeah, love regulating the internet me.

Shadow, mate. You aren't ambitious enough to actually do it, but just annoy and undermine the person that does.

[GS]

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/the-tax-trap-why-a-70k-family-isnt-much-wealthier-than-a-minimum-wage-family/

:nodd:

Coming back to the point again that one must look at cash flow and net income to understand what's actually happening, not just headline figures and gross amounts (same as public sector pay).

[niko_cee]

I can't imagine £350 a week rents you a whole lot of house in THAT LONDON.

[GS]

Perhaps, but it's not really integral to my point which is that people looking at headline gross figures and deciding that's the only thing that matters are morons.

[Pepe]

Lol at that shit.

[Pepe]

Wait I thought this was the memes thread.

[Sam]

I can't imagine £350 a week rents you a whole lot of house in THAT LONDON.

Depends where you want to live. £350 actually could net you something decent.

[Boydy]

In London? No it fucking couldn't.

[niko_cee]

I would imagine you'd be looking at a 1 bedroom flat for that sort of money in Trendy East London, and even that might be a struggle.

[Magic]

£1200 pcm rent? Lololol

[Kikó]

I rent a one bed for £360 a week. You might be able to get something in Cannng Town. Or house share.

[Shindig]

Yeah, love regulating the internet me.

"I'm going to pin a topic to the top of the board so they know I mean business."

[GS]

Prices are lower when you get outside core 'Citizen of the World' territory, as well.

The point, however, is that the better off aren't actually anywhere near as better off as the headline gross figures suggest. Where people focus on headline figures, they're basically misleading people (intentionally or otherwise) on what's actually happening when everything washes through the system. It's the same thing as I highlighted re public sector pay. Ignoring tax changes and increases in disposable income is stupid - you have to look properly at it.

Still, that wouldn't appeal to 1980s style CLASS WARFARE politics.

[Pepe]

Feeling like pizza tonight. Anyone else?

[GS]

If you can't cope with political chat, Pepe, mate, then you'll find you're in the wrong thread.

[Pepe]

This is not the Late Night thread?

[Lewis]

That family on seventy grand probably don't care when they get to live in such a vibrant area.

[Shindig]

I'm not paying an extra £300 a month just for the privilege of a ten minute walk to work. I hate this place.

[Lewis]

My own experience during the election tells me that people don’t mind people of faith in politics – so long as their faith is only of the cultural variety. So, if you wear funky garb, have nice colourful festivals, have interesting buildings and ceremonies, then we are absolutely fine about your faith – in fact your religious culture makes us more diverse and allows me to define myself as very liberal and tolerant by demonstrating how cool I am with your religion. However the moment you show any signs of actually believing in this creed, of thinking that this stuff about Jesus might even be true or that this faith might in any way impact on your conscience or your life choices… well, we don’t like that one bit.

Steady on, racist.

[Yevrah]

Sounds like he's having an existential crisis.

[Lewis]

He is an existential crisis.

[Kikó]

That's probably the most interesting thing he's ever said.

[GS]

Farron. :cool:

He's absolutely right, too.

[Dave.]

Farron. :cool:

He's absolutely right, too.

GS calling a Liberal Democrat cool. That's one for the record books.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If you'd given me that quote blind and asked me to suggest an author, I'd have said Farage (or Nuttall with the election context).

[Henry]

Farron is indeed right, having identified the problem with himself very well. A commitment to extreme credulity ought to be frowned upon by the electorate.

[phonics]

If anyone of any religion wore it on their sleeve and then refused to say that homsexuals aren't bad would be rounded on. Then you've got the fact you're the leader of the shit party that no-one on any side likes which makes it easier.

But yeah, everyones persecuting Christianity. Can't even say Merry Christmas anymore. Disgusting.

[Henry]

Nobody other than Vince Cable wanted the LibDem job. LOL.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Vince Cable (i.e. Labour facing) is an awful choice. They needed an orange booker who could gather centrist, own brand balsamic vinegar votes.

[GS]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/24/utopian-thinking-fund-welfare-state-inheritance-tax

:lol:

[John]

She'll have a shadow cabinet position by tomorrow morning.

[Raoul Duke]

Genuinely one of the dumbest pieces of writing I've ever seen. What a mongtard.

[Lewis]

She seems quite ubiquitous these days, despite 1) having only really appeared last year; and 2) being a rubbish writer with nothing interesting to say, so there is definitely some industrial strength poshness and connections behind it all.

[Boydy]

I've not read it but we absolutely should.

[Boydy]

She seems quite ubiquitous these days, despite 1) having only really appeared last year; and 2) being a rubbish writer with nothing interesting to say, so there is definitely some industrial strength poshness and connections behind it all.

I don't think she does. A good friend of mine knows her.

[Magic]

Fuck this I'm voting Tory again.

[Boydy]

Anything you have will be forked over in maintenance payments long before your death anyway.

[Magic]

Anything you have will be forked over in maintenance payments long before your death anyway.

Good at least it won't go to scrounging reprobates like you.

[Lewis]

I don't think she does. A good friend of mine knows her.

Rumble her lad. Take her place.

[niko_cee]

Someone should 'fully cost' that idea. It'd probably raise about 43p, but give rise to a deep abyss of new avoidance outrage. Maybe that's enough.

I've no idea why the state has any claim on it at all. It's mostly been taxed multiple times previously (in the accumulation), if everyone wasn't so atomised you'd just give it away whilst you were alive anyway, but then the state likes to get its filthy mitts on that as well where it can.

There's obviously the fact that all serious estates fall entirely out of the system anyway, so merely changing the rate is only going to fuck Joe Simpleton more anyway (always the most efficient way to raise tax revenue).

[Lewis]

Beyond the wider lol point, the 'small allowance for objects of sentimental value' got me. How would you even begin to manage this sort of shit?

[niko_cee]

You'd just phase it over time. State issue everything, no possessions for anyone. Welcome to utopia.

[Henry]

There was another piece today about the Financial Transaction Tax.

:drool:

[GS]

Beyond the wider lol point, the 'small allowance for objects of sentimental value' got me. How would you even begin to manage this sort of shit?

She's clearly an idiot. You'd hope she's just trying to provoke peopler rather than actually believing it's a good idea, because if she does then lol.

Inheritance tax is a complete waste of time as it is. The assets have already had tax levied on them at purchase. It only brings in about £5bn a year as well, which wouldn't even be enough to buy off the public sector unions. The problem is that it represents a perceived moral good, rather than any serious fiscal benefit to the treasury. Nobody should care about IHT if they're serious about fiscal prudence.

[GS]

Wor Jez with another tour de force on 'ameliorating' historical student debt.

£100bn.

Wonder how much of that a 100% IHT rate would bring in.

[Henry]

What the fuck is "Wor Jez"? Literally no-one else has ever used that phrase.

[GS]

Man of the people.

We could use "the absolute boy", but that would be nauseating and cultist.

[Lewis]

I noticed a few people realising he was either stupid or dishonest over the weekend when he was talking crap about the European Union, so maybe now people take him 'seriously' they might also realise what he's about.

[GS]

The cultists are too invested for that.

[Kikó]

Call him wor Jez again

[GS]

I prefer his full title of the terrorist sympathiser Jeremy Corbyn, which makes people who vote for his party complicit in said sympathising.

[Byron]

Right now I just need a reference to Labour voters simply not knowing what's good for them and I'll have my bingo card filled out.

[Adamski]

I prefer his full title of the terrorist sympathiser Jeremy Corbyn, which makes people who vote for his party complicit in said sympathising.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/feb/28/iraq.politics1

Oh oh.

[Lewis]

God knows how people keep making these comparisons. It's like equating heating your home with Qatari gas to being that bloke who wanted to marry Rose West.

[GS]

Because they're morons, evidently. There's no other sustainable explanation.

[Kikó]

We should privatise education to make sure this cant happen again. Never, never, never.

[Adamski]

We should privatise education to make sure this cant happen again. Never, never, never.

Then one day we can all grow up to be unemployed and never leave home. Absolute Nirvana.

[Lewis]

Why would privately educated people be doing that?

[Adamski]

Sorry, just assumed that was the dream of every young Tory voter, regardless of background.

[Lewis]

I wouldn't have thought so.

[GS]

Sound public finances. :dc:

[Magic]

Adam is to politics, as GS is to banter.

[GS]

This isn't banter.

[GS]

This is peak grievance shit, this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFm_5SLXsAE7kaO.jpg

[Kikó]

I was reading a bit of the stuff angry Salmond retweeted and it seemed like the nats had been taken over in a similar manner to the labour mentals. National being one in the cross hairs for going full on echo chamber.

[Lewis]

Didn't that lot pioneer the mental illness-driven approach?

[GS]

The Nats appear to have developed a full-on bunker mentality.

[Spoonsky]

What's going on with that dog and Wee Ginger Dug?

[Jimmy Floyd]

It'll be a column pseudonym that someone writes under. Fairly common in our papers/magazines.

[Shindig]

No new petrol or diesel cars from 2040. RIP Top Gear.

[Raoul Duke]

No new petrol or diesel cars from 2040. RIP Top Gear.

Won't they just switch to testing electric cars? Surely they've done the Tesla's already?

[Kikó]

They'll all be dead anyway.

[Lewis]

If the technology will be in place by 2040, which it more than likely will be (where the power comes from is another matter), then why bother with some stupid ban? In the unlikely event that there will still be viable non-electric options we will just be fucking ourselves.

[GS]

Because gesture politics.

We'll end up making it more expensive for poor people to travel. Much in the same way that our current green policies end up completely shafting our own businesses by driving up energy costs and simply exporting carbon emissions to other countries instead.

[Henry]

The point of making it 2040 is so that it's remote enough that there's no cost to the current government. If it happens to be seen as inconvenient by then, they'll just move it back again.

And no, letting the market decide isn't the right option, Lewis.

[Lewis]

Why not introduce the ban now then? They must be hoping the market keeps developing everything necessary for it to work.

[Henry]

Why not introduce the ban now then? They must be hoping the market keeps developing everything necessary for it to work.

I wish they would introduce the ban sooner. Say ten years. To the extent that the ALMIGHTY MARKET has a role, their efforts would then be more focused since the downside risks of not having a scalable and cost-effective solution would have changed. Although as you know, the state pays a very large proportion of research costs anyway.

[Lewis]

Who has it done that for? Buyers are subsidised, which they shouldn't be, but where we are now is the result of two decades of people like Toyota and Volkswagen (lol) pouring loads of money into it (and taking huge losses in the first decade).

[Henry]

They get tax credits based on their R&D spending.

https://www.ft.com/content/862623ac-1a90-11e1-ae4e-00144feabdc0

That's for the UK obviously. Other countries have similar schemes.

[GS]

I've advocated significant R&D tax breaks for exactly this sort of spending. It's good to see you accepting the case for it.

[Lewis]

Research and development tax relief isn't specific to car manufacturers, and tax relief is not 'the state paying a very large proportion of research costs'. I've just read as well that this ban will include hybrid vehicles, which makes it even more idiotic than first thought (and will probably cancel itself out once China starts mining itself to death keeping up with battery demands).

[Henry]

I didn't say that it was specific to them. Being allowed to keep money that they' otherwise hand over in tax is equivalent to the state picking up costs.

On another note, who was it on here who once expressed incredulity about using renewable energy in vehicles because you couldn't have a car driving about with a windmill on top? :D

[GS]

Being allowed to keep money that they' otherwise hand over in tax is equivalent to the state picking up costs.

No, it's not.

[Henry]

No, it's not.

Explain how it's any different to the state abolishing the tax relief and handing them a subsidy for the same amount instead.

[GS]

Because it will never, ever be a £1 = £1 trade off.

If you provide more generous R&D relief (e.g. £2 increase in threshold for every £1 spent on R&D), they'll likely invest much more here. You lose some CT in the years when the private sector company in question is ploughing free cash flows into product or service development, but you will generate compensating tax revenues from those activities. Additionally, you'll see benefits further down the line in tax revenue if the product works, goes to market, and is successful.

[Shindig]

I just keep thinking this will be a godsend to those guys in Nissan. They manufacture the Leaf in Washington so they could do gangbusters.

[GS]

Another position that Labour have held on the single market. This time, McDonnell suggesting they may try and stay in.

Lol.

[Lewis]

http://islingtontribune.com/article/corbyn-mural-is-unveiled-on-side-of-pub

:lol:

[GS]

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Venezuela-e1434044065155.jpg

[John]

Unveiled it himself. :lol:

[Kikó]

I've painted Diane Abbott on my bedroom wall in the hope she comes round to unveil it.

[GS]

"The face of honest politics."

You have to laugh at them, really.

[Shindig]

No politician is honest, mate.

[GS]

You should tell them that, given they've painted it onto the wall below him.

[Shindig]

Why don't you tell them? It's a lovely day out.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If there's one thing that can revitalise Tory fortunes, this 'The Democrats' effort is definitely it.

[GS]

897107888816222208

Look at the state of that.

[Lewis]

I never knew who he was until the other day, which I think explains the entire 'project'.

[Boydy]

What the fuck is that?

Are they actually starting that new centrist party they've been threatening for ages?

[GS]

Define "they". We could start our own party, and we'd probably have more success than they ultimately will. Nobody worthwhile is joining a fucking new party that would get hammered under FPTP, unless they give literally not a fuck about their career prospects.

[Boydy]

Liberal EU-loving bellends.

They've already got the fucking Lib Dems anyway, the stupid wankers.

[Shindig]

From now on, I'm only voting for the guys without a twitter handle. Social media has fucked politics for everyone.

[John]

Haven't you only voted once?

[Shindig]

Twice. :D

[GS]

Liberal EU-loving bellends.

They've already got the fucking Lib Dems anyway, the stupid wankers.

Yep. I don't think they've quite grasped that this option effectively existed in June, and only about seven percent of people bothered with it. The one advantage the election has given is leeway on timings. We'll have a three year transition period (ish) and be out before the next election, ergo there will be no way of reversing it without re-applying from the beginning and having to enter the Euro, which nobody but the ultra-mentalists would accept. It's done.

[GS]

It appears that your man James Chapman is in the process of an actual breakdown of some kind. His journalist colleagues seem to be piling in to see if there's anyone who can intervene.

Quite an apt parallel of how a new party would get on, really.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's all a wind up isn't it? Although the disciples seem to be taking it deadly seriously, as they do everything.

AC Grayling will be seething in a chateau in the Dordogne right now.

[GS]

It's long past the point where any of it makes sense. It seems Nick Clegg has some sort of book out in the autumn detailing how they should go about stopping it all.

Still, whatever keeps them happy.