The Cricket Thread

[niko_cee]

Nasser and co were going on about that in the break. You can only assume they have no intention of playing him and want the others to get some first class game time, which is fine until Moeen goes over in the warm-up and they roll out an unexpected bunsen at HQ.

Maybe Ballance will be like Bairstow. He was dismissed for ages, but piled them on in the championship and now he's one of the best batsmen around. Maybe.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hell of a knock from Hales.

On Ballance, having only seen him
in Test cricket, it's baffling to me how he's managed to score so many FC runs. Just seems if you keep bowling full he won't score, will be nailed to the crease and will eventually get out. Dawson is actually the weirder selection though, don't get the ECB brains trust obsession with him in any format.

With Ballance it's the extra pace, you get it full and move it he'll just nick off. Not sure SA have that kind of bowler, maybe Rabada I guess. Someone like Amir or Starc would end him.

Dawson you can kind of understand in white ball, in a Duncan Fletcher sort of way as he contributes in three areas, but in red ball it's just absolute nonsense I'm afraid.

[Jimmy Floyd]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-india-2017/engine/match/1098209.html

Good old MS, bang at it again.

[niko_cee]

Wait, Dawson is going to start?

That side looks like it'd get bummed senseless in Australia in the winter, were they not picking an under 15s representative side.

[Ian]

I thought I at least paid attention to tests and yet apparently Dawson played against India for us and yet I've not fucking heard of him.

Cook, Jennings and Ballance looks set to give Root the chance for a number of opportunities to come out and work his magic at 29/3 though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Cook
Jennings
Ballance
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Dawson
Broad
Wood
Anderson

I mean, I dunno. I don't see why they don't just pick Rashid if they're going to pick Dawson.

I reckon Cook is due one of his megatron series. Clear head from Essex and six hundreds this season.

[Max Power]

Twelve minutes for Warne to complain about the lack of aggression in the England top order.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Who does he want, Jason Roy?

[Cord]

My work has finally got round to allowing headphones, so I can TMS myself senseless this summer. Lovely.

Seeing as England seem to be serious about this Gallance thing, I'm making it my goal, by the end of this test series, to eventually be able to identify the Gary Ballance in a photograph of Gary Ballance.

[Max Power]

Big Vurn all over us here.

One thing I noticed about Gallance's form this season is that he seemed to drag Yorkshire out of trouble a lot, scored a lot of runs in difficult situations. Need that here.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Joseph Edward Root is tonning here.

[ItalAussie]

Took a look at career test bowling averages today. Players who played in the 2000's only, with a cutoff of 24:

Curtly Ambrose: 20.99
Glenn McGrath: 21.64
Shane Bond: 22.09
Vernon Philander: 22.14
Allan Donald: 22.25
Dale Steyn: 22.30
Kyle Abbott: 22.71
Muttiah Muralitharan: 22.72
Shabbir Ahmed: 23.03
Shaun Pollock: 23.11
Ravindra Jadeja: 23.12
Ryan Harris: 23.52
Waqar Younis: 23.56
Wasim Akram: 23.62
Stuart Clark: 23.86

Quite a lot of oddness in there.

[Jimmy Floyd]

A lot of pitch it up and nibble it around right arm over in there. So much for lightning pace.

I always thought Curtly was underrated. He and Donald the best two quicks I've seen.

[Max Power]

Kyle Abbott who has now jacked it in to play at the AGEAS Bowl taking his Test wickets at 22s!

Ryan Harris was so good man. (Sort of) a shame he had so many injuries.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Sharing the new ball with Gareth Berg and probably has a nice semi-detached in Eastleigh or Hedge End, what a life he has chosen.

[Ian]

It's only just occurred to me that the return of the cricket means the Verdict is back. :drool:

[Max Power]

Love the Stokes/Root partnership. So complimentary.

South Africa been pushing the front line all day. Probably a few more that haven't been called tbh.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Theunis de Bruyn is a proper saffa regen name.

I think we'll fold fairly meekly after this partnership so another 90 minutes of it would be a nice touch. Is Vernon fit? Only the three overs in that session.

[Max Power]

Dodgy ankles according to Pollock - they don't want to overbowl him. Having never heard of 'Theunis de Bruyn' before today I could guarantee he looked exactly as he looks and bowled a bit of right arm medium pace.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Does he by any chance bustle up to the wicket and look for a hint of movement?

Come on Mo. The legend could go 2,000 runs and 100 wickets in this match.

[Max Power]

Stiaan van Zyl looked more threatening with the ball tbh.

Root on the verge...

[Max Power]

Well in Joseph.

Someone needs to make a ***MOEEN ALI DRIVES COMPLILATION 2017*** so I can watch it on a loop. Just pure filth.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Lol at that. No balls so costly.

[Ian]

Hold the fuck up, The Verdict has been cut to half an hour?

[Ian]

As if Root didn't usually sound like a child at the best of times that cold he's got has him sounding like he's on the verge of tears.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They seem to have cut it down, another casualty of paying for the football rights.

[Ian]

It wasn't just short, it was actually a bit rubbish.

By the time you've had Charles round up the day at the start and interviewed a player from each team there's barely any time left for Bob to start tearing into the shitness.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Wasn't even Charles was it? They just bussed Bob into Lord's for a couple of hot takes at the end of the day's play. No studio or anything.

Strange as it hardly looked like an expensive show to produce, Mark Butcher's fee must be about nine quid.

[Ian]

I can't even remember who was presenting it, that's how disgusted I was. Was it still just Gower?

Utter shit. As you say, it's not like it could have been hard to make and they don't have enough fucking hours to fill. Bob, Butch/Cork/Jones/whoever, somebody to represent the visiting team and a presenter sat around a table.

[Max Power]

They've spent the cricket budget on getting 'Freddie' Flintoff in for domestic T20 stuff.

[niko_cee]

Thank god for Young Joe Root (and South African indiscipline).

Some top DRS work at the top of the innings too. Gallance clearly thinking he needed to keep one up his sleeve for himself and sending poor Keaton to his doom like an old hand. Fairly dreadful call from 'Umpire Ravi' to even be there in the first place, mind.

[Jimmy Floyd]

'Umpire Ravi' needs to be packed into an ambulance and shuttled out to wherever they keep Russell Tiffin, Asad Rauf and Darryl Harper.

Flintoff being on telly is awful, but of the five Banter Brothers (Vaughan, 'Swanny' and KP being the others) Warne needs shooting first. Oh, and never forget:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IEhXqfXdPY

[niko_cee]

I never knew Mo was a 'lifelong Liverpool fan' (and club ambassador).

[Max Power]

The Warne painting is so, SO good. It really is such a shame that one of the greats of the game, an actual sporting genius, is such a fucking tool.

[Danny]

I never knew Mo was a 'lifelong Liverpool fan' (and club ambassador).

Every genius has their flaw

[Ian]

Warne's only contribution of note yesterday in the hour or so of the cricket I saw was to look at the bowling stats and pick out Philander, with most of the wickets and the best economy, as "the pick of the bunch, I reckon."

Good insight Shane.


The Warne painting is so, SO good. It really is such a shame that one of the greats of the game, an actual sporting genius, is such a fucking tool.

I actually quite like him when he's talking specifically about bowling, like when Sky have him in the "THE ZONE" zone..

But that's literally the only time.

[Max Power]

Yeah he's great on spin bowling no doubt

[Jimmy Floyd]

I really don't like the look of our bowling lineup here. Hopefully this doesn't turn out to be the year when Anderson and/or Broad are finally past it.

Ollie Rayner should be playing ahead of Dawson but I genuinely think they're considering people only who spin it away from the right hander, which is thinking of the classic 'James Taylor's too small' ilk.

[Max Power]

If you play two spinners (why?) and you want someone turning it away then surely a leggie? Not like Rashid can't bat either.

It's got to be Anderson's last summer you'd think but who knows? He looks in great shape.

Who are the next 'cabs off the rank' seamer wise? I'm sure Ball would have played in place of Dawson if fit. Roland-Jones, Tom Curran, one of the Overtons?

[Queenslander]

Apparently a bunch a rancid bogans are prepared to step in and graciously play in the Ashes for free.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If you play two spinners (why?) and you want someone turning it away then surely a leggie? Not like Rashid can't bat either.

It's got to be Anderson's last summer you'd think but who knows? He looks in great shape.

Who are the next 'cabs off the rank' seamer wise? I'm sure Ball would have played in place of Dawson if fit. Roland-Jones, Tom Curran, one of the Overtons?

Apparently England are saying they aren't playing two spinners, which is nothing if not FAKE NEWS.

Roland-Jones would be the next one (was in the squad), then I guess Finn maybe? I doubt TC is in Test contention and as far as I can see they are obsessed with the wrong Overton.

Tom Helm and Sam Curran playing Lions but both probably six months away yet. Some have been talking about Ben Coad (Yorkshire) but I've not seen him yet.

[niko_cee]

Woakes for Dawson makes the bowling look less rancid. When is Bloakesy fit?

Can't say I'm a fan of Bairstow at 5. It's too high for a 'keeper to be coming in, even if he's a good batsman. Either take the gloves off him (and play Buttler) or move him down and get another batsman in there. I'd have considered playing Hales in the middle order for this one (instead of Dawson). He's in the form of his life and even though he's never going to be a test opener in all likelihood, it doesn't mean he couldn't happily flay away in the middle order somewhere.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Ben Foakes should be playing as his keeping is approx 100 times better than anyone who has worn the Test gloves for England since about 2000, and his batting is easily good enough to bat 7/8 in this side.

Buttler in Test cricket is just wishful thinking.

[Max Power]

Moeen Ali on the drive again and I'm nervously looking over my shoulder at work because this kind of content is really NSFW :drool:

[Max Power]

Apparently England are saying they aren't playing two spinners, which is nothing if not FAKE NEWS.

Roland-Jones would be the next one (was in the squad), then I guess Finn maybe? I doubt TC is in Test contention and as far as I can see they are obsessed with the wrong Overton.

Tom Helm and Sam Curran playing Lions but both probably six months away yet. Some have been talking about Ben Coad (Yorkshire) but I've not seen him yet.

Which is the good Overton? The racist one?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah. Jamie is quicker but doesn't get shit done.

Good work Daws.

[Danny]

Good job we didn't pick him for his spin

[Danny]

Sounds like Broad is still batting like a scared child but it's coming off today

[Ian]

I don't think I'd have trusted an batsman to reach 200 starting on 199. Even Sir Joe.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Dawson currently looking like a Pattinson-level selection for this particular Test.

[Max Power]

MOEEN baby. The second fastest to the 100 wickets-2000 runs mark after Tony Greig

:cool:

[Danny]

Dawson currently looking like a Pattinson-level selection for this particular Test.

Atleast he looked good in county cricket before we picked him :moop:

[Ian]

And tonight there is no actual Verdict programme at all.

That's alright though, at least you're spending money on Scott Quinnell fucking about in New Zealand in his, and I quote, "beloved 'Fan Van.'"

Fuck off, Sky.

[Jimmy Floyd]

MOEEN baby. The second fastest to the 100 wickets-2000 runs mark after Tony Greig

:cool:

I can't remember a more likeable England player in my time watching.

[Haystacks Horace]

Pleased to see a few youngsters like Jonas Henriksen and Oliver Hald breaking into the Danish team.

[Pleb]

What a review that was.

[niko_cee]

The only thing worse than England's top order constantly collapsing is it not collapsing and having to watch it stodge along at a match jeopardising rate.

[Ian]

Right then. Chef of Gallance to go first?

[Max Power]

7-43 :cab:

Not watching but sounds like it's a bit of a minefield? Already got enough runs?

[Ian]

Dawson, I think, got a bit unlucky with the waist-high ball he got from Rabada and one or two after that there was one that was just a really good catch from the nearby fielder. The pitch was doing a bit and now SA are falling to bits so maybe we didn't do as bad as it looked.

[Max Power]

Fucking love Mo

[Ian]

Came to express that very sentiment. What a man.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Cook's second innings effort looking a bit good now.

Moeen is life.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jul/10/england-matchwinner-moeen-ali-cant-shed-second-spinner-label

I swear Bayliss just talks utter balls for a living.

[Ian]

I assume I'm reading that wrongly, because it doesn't have fucking sound like he's saying he actively doesn't consider a spinner he agrees to be our best to be our first choice.

[Jimmy Floyd]

England bowling and UNCHANGED which means another match for our number one spinner Liam 'enforce 'em' Dawson. South Africa I think bring in François 'Faf' du Plessis for JP Duminy, Chris Morris for Theunis de Bruyn and I presume Duanne Olivier for Rabada although I'm not sure on that one.

Christ, just typing all that out makes me want to drag a wagon across red earth.

[Max Power]

Hearing Shaun Pollock say Duanne Olivier has seriously broken my brain. Such a strange accent/language.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Let me guess. Dwann Olla Fear?

[Max Power]

Pretty much :sick:

Fancy Jimmy to run through these today.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Second spinner Moeen Ali enters the attack in the 45th over, after Dawson returns 3-0-19-0 from his three. FUCK YOU BAYLISS

[Max Power]

Dawson is just shit tbh

[Jimmy Floyd]

I reckon there are twenty better spinners in England, and if it wasn't Friday afternoon I'd try and name them all. Moeen, Rayner, Crane, Batty, Leach, Kerrigan, Patel... I'm on a roll.

Last night I came up against Amar Virdi (Surrey) in a club game and let me tell you, he will play for England. He also has a way bigger turban than Panesar.

[Dave.]

I would go with an out-and-out batsman instead of Dawson. We don't need more than five frontline bowlers in a test match. Four seamers and one spinner at Trent Bridge is plenty and Root and Jennings can bowl a few overs if necessary.

[Max Power]

Samit Patel is a ten times better batsman and he's at least as good a spinner - certainly would be better in the holding role.

But he's fat.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There's a real aversion to picking anyone whose face doesn't fit. Once they decide, that's it, you're done for three years. What I can't work out is why Dawson's face does fit.

[Dave.]

I like Patel and believe he'd be a better alternative to Dawson. Even someone like Scott Borthwick (playing mainly as a batter) or Tom Westley would be better options. I really like Mark Stoneman at Surrey so he'd be my choice.

[niko_cee]

I'm still getting over the excitement of watching Big Steve Finn kicking (and then swatting) Middlesex to victory against Jimmy's mob last night.

I swear he though he was stone dead lbw off that first one he faced (well done umpire).

[Ian]

I reckon there are twenty better spinners in England, and if it wasn't Friday afternoon I'd try and name them all. Moeen, Rayner, Crane, Batty, Leach, Kerrigan, Patel... I'm on a roll.

Just makes me think of Bob's "Simple Simon" line all over again.

RIP The Verdict. :(

[Max Power]

Root is so fucking good

[niko_cee]

Our run rate in this innings is a bit batshit.

[Ian]

That's a lovely ball to get Bairstow.

Hopefully Broad delivers a swashbuckling 11.

[Danny]

Dawson's bat wasn't even in the same postcode as that. The fuck?

[Danny]

Bit brainless from Mo and chicken shit as usual from Broad :face:

[Ian]

Dawson's bat wasn't even in the same postcode as that. The fuck?

The reaction from the crowd when the rear-angle replay was shown was amazing.

[Ian]

Cricket Writers on TV has just reminded me about Hameed. What's going on with him?

[niko_cee]

Last time I checked he'd scored about 13 runs across the whole of the County Championship season thus far, but this is probably an outdated view now.

[Ian]

Oh. Hmm. He doesn't seem to be doing much, no.

So how close are Ballance and/or Jennings to being replaced? And who, if anybody, would they be looking at bringing it?

I guess Jennings is probably alright just now.

[niko_cee]

Well, it's tricky. I suppose Jennings only got the nod due to Hameed being injured, and so you could justify removal if his poor form persists. The problem of Hameed being woefully out of touch does make things a bit problematic. The whole batting line-up looks wrong to me. I don't like Bairstow at 5 (if he's the 'keeper), I don't like the major delineation between plodders (1-3) and dashers (5-7/8). Root should bat at 3, but only if you can find a proper 4. I think even switching Root and Baz Gallaz would be better.

Cook, OPENER, Root, BATSMAN, BATSMAN, Stokes, Bairstow, Moeen, BOWLER, Broad, Anderson.

You either trust Moeen as your spinner, or you move him into a batting role. BOWLER can be situational, although failing a raging bunsen where you want 2 spinners it should be Woakes. Bairstow can move up into a batting role as well if you give the gloves to Buttler. I'd still be tempted to give Hales a go in the middle order.

Cook, Hameed, Root, Bairstow, Hales, Stokes, Buttler*, Moeen, Woakes, Broad, Anderson

There are probably more deserving people that could be put in, but I like that format for the team.

[niko_cee]

A steadier hand than Hales is probably the order of the day at 5 there though.

Someone like Steve Waugh, or Gallant Barry.

[Ian]

If you go with the idea that Hameed is the future at opener do you just put him in now (if Jennings doesn't show any sign of sorting his life out) or do you wait until he's doing better domestically again?

I agree with you about the change of pace after 3 though.Our middle order is a bit of a glass cannon at the moment.

[Danny]

Englands premier spinner coming up big

[igor_balis]

Root stays at 4 you'd imagine. I've heard the long-term plan was Hameed 2 Jennings 3.

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Specialist Keeper allowing Bairstow to focus on batting / 2nd spinner / another seamer / just throw in another batter at 5 and shift everyone down one
3rd seemer - Wood / Ball / TR-J / Woakes fuck knows I don't follow county cricket
Broad
Anderson

[Max Power]

Move everyone up one and bat Foakes at 7 and give him the gloves. Maybe that's a bit too attacking.

Could do with a Collingwood type middle order battler to balance the stroke makers.

[Ian]

Commentators banging on about getting us in for the night.

Why bother? Why not bat out the day at least and just set that slightly higher target? There's not a fucking chance we're batting for two days.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Move everyone up one and bat Foakes at 7 and give him the gloves. Maybe that's a bit too attacking.

Could do with a Collingwood type middle order battler to balance the stroke makers.

No Bayliss side will ever select a middle order battler. It's all about ATTACK.

Our issue is a lack of steel/competitiveness, too many limp dicks. It makes for a team that either wins comfortably or gets demolished - fair weather shite.

[ItalAussie]

After Sri Lanka lost the ODI series to Zimbabwe, they're looking ropey in the test match now.

Had them on the ropes when the fifth wicket fell, but Zimbabwe steadied well.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I want to see Afghanistan get involved in a Test match or two now they have status. Reckon they'd give Sri Lanka/Bangladesh/West Indies a proper game.

Tougher for Ireland, I'm not sure they could take 20 top class wickets in ten days, never mind five.

[Max Power]

Jennings in the bin I reckon. Durham could do with some help anyway.

Off work and in the mood for a grim Chef dig-in.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We need 3-4 changes (genuinely, not the usual 'drop whoever' madness) but I reckon we'll be UNCHANGED, or failing that swap Wood for Finn (or something equally uninspiring).

[niko_cee]

That's a fairly tragic dismissal for Jennings in a supposed rearguard action.

Get Hameed back. At least he's right handed.

[Max Power]

Warne seems to think there aren't enough attacking players in the batting order. Interesting take as ever. Roy for Jennings, Liam Livingstone for Ballance, Buttler for Cook. Nice.

[Dave.]

As a Durham fan, I can confirm that Jennings is not test match quality. He has only had one good season for Durham with the bat and is way down the averages for County Championship Division 2 this season. Both Hameed and Hales would be better options. Even Jason Roy would be an improvement.

Warne is so predictable on commentary. For every match, he'll demand the spinners on to bowl earlier, more aggression in every part of the game and engage in useless BANTZ.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Jason Roy would bat 6 if anything in a Test match. He does have his moments in red ball but the testosterone levels are a bit high. We need more Alastair Cook types who ejaculate ketamine, which must actually come in handy living on a farm.

[niko_cee]

I think Ballance was a bit unlucky there, but he was a walking LBW from the first ball he faced so hardly a surprise to see him depart like that.

[ItalAussie]

Warne seems to think there aren't enough attacking players in the batting order. Interesting take as ever. Roy for Jennings, Liam Livingstone for Ballance, Buttler for Cook. Nice.

It's not so much number as location.

I feel like you ideally want an imposing attacker somewhere in the top three, to take the game away quickly by dominating teams, and one stalwart in the middle order who can provide backbone when things are falling apart. Hayden and Waugh, basically.

[niko_cee]

And Langer, Ponting and Martyn.

Piece of cake.

[Max Power]

Putting Root and Ballance at 3 and 5 respectively isn't going to solve any problems. There simply isn't enough England players with strong enough technique, whether they be attacking or conservative players.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's not so much number as location.

I feel like you ideally want an imposing attacker somewhere in the top three, to take the game away quickly by dominating teams, and one stalwart in the middle order who can provide backbone when things are falling apart. Hayden and Waugh, basically.

That's a very Australian way of thinking about things. Your pitches don't do anything early (or ever, really) side to side in the way that ours do. Imposing attackers are just wasted in the top three in England, unless they are also very adaptable. An imposing attacker isn't getting through this Philander spell.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Putting Root and Ballance at 3 and 5 respectively isn't going to solve any problems. There simply isn't enough England players with strong enough technique, whether they be attacking or conservative players.

We have plenty of batsmen with good technique, whether the selectors are prepared to select them is another question entirely.

[Max Power]

Yeah why I said England, as in Team England, New Balance, Waitrose England, rather than English.

Ballance is so weird. He must have been someone Root has pushed for as a Yorkshire mate. Because they clearly don't pick on CC form usually and his technique looks ill suited to Test cricket.

[Max Power]

Oof what a ball. This'll be done by tea.

[ItalAussie]

That's a very Australian way of thinking about things. Your pitches don't do anything early (or ever, really) side to side in the way that ours do. Imposing attackers are just wasted in the top three in England, unless they are also very adaptable. An imposing attacker isn't getting through this Philander spell.

If it's basically a given that you'll be three down after forty overs, wouldn't it be nicer to be three down for 200 than for 75?

EDIT: It does presume that you have the players to make this approach work, of course.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Ballance is so weird. He must have been someone Root has pushed for as a Yorkshire mate.

Those were the indications when he got the nod.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If it's basically a given that you'll be three down after forty overs, wouldn't it be nicer to be three down for 200 than for 75?

It's not a given, you just have to be prepared sometimes to be 5 off 40 balls when it's tough, and catch up later once the moisture is out of the pitch and the shine is off the ball.

Cook is a great example of this, he's quite happy to go 10 overs without scoring a run if need be and it doesn't change his temperament. Other players get twitchy and have a visceral need to score regardless of situation.

[Max Power]

Fucking hell thats embarrassing

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not been a great day for Yorkshire digging in, has it.

Michael Vaughan needs to be executed.

[niko_cee]

I like Mark Wood. He seems a real trier, but he seems to come up quite short at test level. He's always oddly ineffective with the ball and there's isn't really anything else to his game. We've got proper old fashioned tail on the go at the moment.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Westley
Moeen
Stokes
Bairstow
seam bowler who bats and isn't Liam fucking Dawson
Rayner
Broad
Anderson

This is the correct XI. I reckon I might get 4/11 if I'm lucky in terms of name/slot both being right.

[Dave.]

I generally agree with that line up but you have too many bowlers in there. Take out Rayner or that seam bowler and put in another batsman. We only need five frontline bowlers and I would definitely class Moeen Ali as a frontline bowler.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not sure I class Stokes as one. I don't want him as the third seamer.

Batsman for Rayner and a better seamer who can bat then. Broad at nine is diarrhoea.

[Dave.]

Agreed on Stokes. He's more of a luxury bowler really.

I'd go:

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Westley
Moeen
Hales
Bairstow
Stokes
Ronald-Jones
Anderson
Broad

[Dave.]

I can't think why Jennings keeps on getting selected ahead of Stoneman. Stoneman has steadily developed as a player throughout his time in Durham and is now one of the best batsman in county cricket while I'm starting to believe Jennings is a one-season wonder. Stoneman has to play in the next test.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Stokes at eight will never happen. TR-J isn't a bad shout though and has been in the squad.

[Dave.]

Stokes at eight will never happen. TR-J isn't a bad shout though and has been in the squad.

I was unsure what order to put no.s 5 - 8 in. After the farce of this game though, some extra batting depth won't hurt. I like Ronald-Jones, he's very consistent and has been for a number of years, his stats are compared to other similar bowlers in county cricket are excellent.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Well, Ravi Trashwin comparing the Chennai Super Kings' match fixing ban to the Munich air disaster has certainly livened up the cricketing week.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/story/1111934.html


"I think the two-year hiatus for CSK probably increases its value much like what it did for Manchester United when the air crash happened," Ashwin, who played for Super Kings between 2009-15, told the Times of India. "I don't know if it's in the same league but surely people in Chennai and fans across the world are waiting for CSK to return. I hope it turns out to be a good comeback."

:cab:

[Max Power]

Well, it's certainly a fresh take. Quite surprised he's always struck me as quite bright.

This comment on cricinfo though :D

"Please perform abroad where the pitches do not offer much turn, and all you say will be overlooked!"

[Jimmy Floyd]

Squad for third Test - Ballance gone in the finger

Cook
Jennings
Westley
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Malan
Moeen Ali
LIAM DAWSON BABY
Broad
Wood
Anderson
Roland-Jones

Westley will bat at three, so we have duels for the final places between Wood/TRJ, and Malan/Dawson.

[Dave.]

Still no Stoneman. Ridiculous!:moop:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Given that they've selected Malan, I think it literally is a case of selecting familiar players to 'the setup'.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh God, cricinfo has redesigned. These are the worst days of my life.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Australia women getting absolutely marmalised by India in the reduced overs semi final. This would be a turn up.

[Pleb]

I thought Australia already batted :|

This on paper is a mulling.

[Max Power]

Decent knock from my girl Harmanpreet Kaur :|

New cricinfo site is shit btw.

[Pleb]

The Aussies ladies are having a nightmare in Derby.

[Danny]

Oh God, cricinfo has redesigned. These are the worst days of my life.


New cricinfo site is shit btw.

It's fucking hideous

[ItalAussie]

New cricinfo is of course terrible.

That was a fantastic innings by the Indian women, and the ball that got Lanning was basically unplayable.

[Ian]

I knew exactly what Cricinfo was going to look like before I even went to the page.

It's great how every new website design looks dreadful in exactly the same way these days so you don't have to think up new ways of being annoyed.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I was having to actually refresh the live scoring page earlier on the women's game. Surely they can't have removed the most basic function/raison d'etre of their site.

[ItalAussie]

It's way more difficult to get to the partnership information from the scorecard now, I think.

[Ian]

So what's a decent score for the women here?

Looking at the tournament on Wikipedia it looks like we're going to fall a bit short of the sort of scores India have been getting.

[Ian]

That girl's heart must have fucking dropped when she let that catch go.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That was one of the great bottle jobs by India. You could almost see the poo running out of their trousers once the runs to win went under 15.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Looks like we've gone with:

Cook
Jennings
Westley
Root
Bairstow
Malan
Stokes (not sure on order of 6/7)
Moeen
Roland-Jones
Broad
Anderson

I prefer that to the Dawson-based wank.

[ItalAussie]

I (honestly) feel like the new Cricinfo is designed to make me accidentally click on the link to Bet365 every time I want to look at a scorecard.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I can't think of any other reason why they'd have redesigned it.

Looks like it's actually Malan 5 and Bairstow to 7, which is much better.

[Townsend]

Still annoyed not to see Stoneman breaking into the side, what else can he do?

Hopefully Jennings can repay the faith being put on him put why not just shift him to 3 and bring Stoneman in to open?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh for God's sake the auto updates are dead again, I have to refresh every ball and the ads are bigger than Shane Watson's front pad.

You have to think that the entire media sector is completely broken because people won't pay for anything. I'd pay £5-10 a month for an ad free Cricinfo with a more comprehensive records/statsguru section.

[Townsend]

CricketArchive?

[Jimmy Floyd]

You don't get the up to date articles, live scores and commentary on there. A meld of the two I would definitely pay monthly for full access. But then again I sometimes use it for actual stuff so I'm probably in a minority.

I refresh again and Jennings has nicked off, quelle surprise.

[Townsend]

I've just gone on the CricInfo site on my mobile and whlist navigating it and finding what I want is a chore, the live tab on the match page does update itself live without refreshing.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah but it doesn't on desktop.

The fact that of everyone on TV/radio/all newspaper journalists, only Dan Norcross appears to have seen Westley bat before is pretty ridiculous.

[Townsend]

No need to be a cunt.

[Danny]

Pollock just said Morris swinging the ball both ways is "great to see of a young cricketer".

Young Chris Morris. At 30

[Jimmy Floyd]

Ex cricketers think anyone younger than them is young. I'm sure a few said the same of Stephen Cook who is like 35.

[ItalAussie]

Might also be an assumption based on him not having played internationally for long.

[niko_cee]

Fairly heroic knock from Cook today. It looked horrendous out there for long periods. Good job big Vern had the shits or it could have been much worse in the morning session. Just need to somehow avoid losing two for nothing in the first 15 minutes tomorrow.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Vernon has somehow reached his absolute peak in this series I think. I thought he'd had it as well after all the injuries, but I guess not and English conditions are perfect for his style of bowling. We've probably seen the last of Steyn. Not sure he gets in this attack.

Rabada's ball to dismiss Malan was proper Waqar Younis stuff, deary me.

[Ian]

I know his score wasn't eye-opening but all I saw of Westley was some Sky highlights just now and some of his shots looked absolutely lovely. How did he get on before went?

And how soon can we sack off Jennings without feeling bad about it?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Interesting, looking at the current Cricinfo scorecard thing, that Moeen Ali's Test batting average is higher at 35 than that of Stokes (34).

[Jimmy Floyd]

Vernon off the field with a dicky tummy, allegedly for the rest of today. If you can't beat 'em, poison 'em.

[niko_cee]

Was Roland-Jones the double-barrelled lad who was sort of implicated (well, he was captain and chief banterman) in Tom Maynard's death or was that someone else?

[John Arne]

TRJ :drool:

[ItalAussie]

That was Rory Hamilton-Brown.

EDIT: @niko

[Danny]

Interesting, looking at the current Cricinfo scorecard thing, that Moeen Ali's Test batting average is higher at 35 than that of Stokes (34).

Stokes bowling average is lower. I would have expected those to be the other way round for sure.


Was Roland-Jones the double-barrelled lad who was sort of implicated (well, he was captain and chief banterman) in Tom Maynard's death or was that someone else?

Rory Hamilton-Brown is who you are thinking of.

Edit Ital :moop:

[niko_cee]

Yeah, I thought it didn't sound right.

Bavuma's a fabulously nuggety little character.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Toby was in my year at school. Nice chap. He was in my A level economics class and was better than me. He was a batsman then. Really fucking good one. In the upper sixth he started having a little dabble with a bit of net bowling, it started coming out alright, and then he exploded in uni cricket at Leeds.

I think Broad had a similar transition, albeit earlier in life.

[Dave.]

I suspected Ronald-Jones might do well on his debut but not that well. It was a quality bowling performance and he got quality players out. I have thought for a while that he should be in the test squad due to his consistency in the County Championship division 1.

He is certainly a better fit for the test team than Mark Wood, who I believe to be more of a one day bowler. After this match, Jennings must be dropped, it's time that Stoneman made his debut and opened the batting with Cook. I'd stick with Malan in the middle order and I'm happy with Westley at 3 for now.

[ItalAussie]

Toby was in my year at school. Nice chap. He was in my A level economics class and was better than me. He was a batsman then. Really fucking good one. In the upper sixth he started having a little dabble with a bit of net bowling, it started coming out alright, and then he exploded in uni cricket at Leeds.

I think Broad had a similar transition, albeit earlier in life.

Huh. My best friend in the UK is a math teacher at that school. The more you know.

EDIT: After your time, obviously. We did our PhD's together. I'm actually staying at his place this weekend, which is just down the road from the school. :D

[Max Power]

Like the look of Westley. Inscrutable face and crisp drives.

[Ian]

Like the look of Westley. Inscrutable face and crisp drives.

I don't give a shit about any of that noncey rubbish, Max. Does he come from the right kind of family?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Huh. My best friend in the UK is a math teacher at that school. The more you know.

EDIT: After your time, obviously. We did our PhD's together. I'm actually staying at his place this weekend, which is just down the road from the school. :D

Truly great school. I still have a lot of links with them through cricket so half-know a couple of the maths teachers.

[Ian]

Twestley. :cool:

[niko_cee]

Some top, top work from 'Faf' in this match. Has anyone ever been out like that twice in the same match?

[Danny]

TRJ has a batting average of 48 and as of today his bowling average is just under 13. I would call thats a successful debut so far.

[niko_cee]

Another belting leave.

:cab:

[ItalAussie]

Truly great school. I still have a lot of links with them through cricket so half-know a couple of the maths teachers.

I doubt my friend has ever been involved in cricket, but they'd definitely know him.

[Mellberg]

Pretty sensational stuff from Moeen there :cool:

[niko_cee]

Presumably the Umpire was so certain that was out he thought he'd hand it over to the DRS for the added drama.

[ItalAussie]

Stokes and Moeen are basically the only two real all-rounders in the top sides, right?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Angelo?

Graeme Cremer.

Trashwin.

I'm not going to say Jadeja.

[Danny]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05b5j5t

Boycs being surprisingly restrained.

On the ARs, Shakib too.

[Ian]

Are there levels of batting and bowling required to be a proper all-rounder or is it just general consensus?

[Jimmy Floyd]

The traditional benchmark is batting average higher than bowling average, but really it's just doing both on a regular basis.

[Danny]

The traditional benchmark is batting average higher than bowling average, but really it's just doing both on a regular basis.

Not too many doing that these days.

Bolded have a higher batting than bowling average in tests (since its the only format that matters)


Stokes and Moeen are basically the only two real all-rounders in the top sides, right?


Angelo?

Graeme Cremer.

Trashwin.

I'm not going to say Jadeja.


On the ARs, Shakib too.

For what its worth (Bat vs Bowl avg)

Cremer 16 vs 47
Matthews 45 vs 52
Jadeja 28 vs 23
Stokes 34.19 vs 34.49
Mo 34 vs 37
Philander 25 vs 22
Holder 30 vs 36
Woakes 29.55 vs 29.33
Trashwin 32 vs 25
Shakib 40 vs 33

[Max Power]

4-45 and a hattrick on a seamers deck. Still only really love him for his batting tbh.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The only person in Test history 40+ with bat and 29- with ball, over a significant number of bats/bowls, is: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/45039.html

I wasn't expecting that. Even the great stat hoarder Kallis couldn't manage it. Sobers 58/34 a solid effort.

[ItalAussie]

Shakib is ace, but I was omitting Bangladesh/Zimbabwe in my assessment. Although that's getting a more tenuous limitation by the year.

I don't consider Ashwin or Jadeja to be all-rounders. As previously noted though, I really do rate Ashwin as a bowler.

[igor_balis]

I was once a Moeen doubter, but he's a perfect fit for our test side. It would be nice to have a spinner as good as Swann, or a genuine all-rounder like Shakib, but it's probably fairer to compare him to someone like Giles - the King of Spain had a really useful role in the side as a number 8 bat who averaged about 20 and could hold down an end averaging around 40 with a great seam attack operating around him, and Moeen is basically a much better version of that.

People want a "proper" spinner, but I'm not sure there's either A) much use for one in English conditions or B) anyone good enough. Sure, you could throw someone like Mason Crane in, which admittedly I'd have preferred to totally pointless bits-and-pieces Dawson style player, but I still don't see any reason for it.

I think Wood is pretty much finished and I hope we don't take him to Aus. I can imagine the selectors being obsessed with the idea that his height and pace would suit conditions there, but he's about 5 mph down, and a Mark Wood bowling 80-85mph doesn't really offer anything. Assuming full fitness and form, I'd tentatively go with:

Cook
Hameed (shame he's stuck playing 2nd XI cricket after a terrible start to the season, during a seemingly never-ending marathon of white ball stuff)
Westley
Root
BATTER (technical issues and test failures aside, I think Gaz Baz was batting 5 whilst scoring shit loads in county cricket, and I'd give him a fair go there against windies and judge him on that, and if he fails then some other chancer)
Bairstow
Stokes
Mo
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

TR-J for whoever inevitably gets injured

[Danny]

You know who would be perfect for that open spot? Taylor :(

[Ian]

Too small, mate.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not sure who I want at five. Really I want Dan Lawrence, but he's still 19 I think, and also the world would explode if there were three Essex bats in the top five.

Moeen Ali? No?

[niko_cee]

Does he have a brother?

[ItalAussie]

On all-rounders, there was a decent 5-10 year period when Ryan ten Doeschate could easily have argued that he was one of, if not the, best all-rounder in cricket.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not sure about that. He was a good limited overs batsman for about 4-5 years but his bowling has never been up to much.

[Danny]

I'm not sure who I want at five. Really I want Dan Lawrence, but he's still 19 I think, and also the world would explode if there were three Essex bats in the top five.

Moeen Ali? No?

If we push him up who you bringing in?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Liam Dawson, obviously.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The fourth Test. Big Vern is out (thank you, god) and so is Chris Morris. In come Duanne Olivier and Theunis de Bruyn. Hmm.

England are UNCHANGED and bat first.

[Max Power]

Truly blessed to see the legend Theunis yet again.

Jennings playing for his spot this morning.

[Ian]

So do we want Jennings to TURN THE CORNER, Liverpool-style, and cement his spot in the Ashes / the next 10 years or do we want him to balls up and have them give Stoneman (he's the opener, right?) a bash for the Windies?

I kinda want them to just ignore Hameed's domestic form and pick him again but I guess that won't happen / might be a dreadful idea.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Jennings has basically been bodybagged by Philander, so it's only fair to see what he can do in this match. If he fucks it again then might as well go to Stoneman, although he isn't actually playing in the white ball stuff at the moment as Surrey enter our triannual internal death spiral (hopefully not literally this time).

[Jimmy Floyd]

There he goes, nicking off again.

Chef ton incoming fortunately.

[Danny]

We are boned now.

Even if we drop him the next man in gets to play WI's current band of club cricketers and we learn nothing.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Roston Chase will win the series for them on his own.

[Ian]

You put Stoneman in for the Windies and then if that doesn't work you just go for the long-awaited return of Michael Carberry.

I can't remember exactly how Jimrage put it but at least he didn't chuck his wicket away, even if he was a bit pants.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Carbs is 37 (ish) and just back from leukaemia, can't see him getting back in.

Other decent openers in the country include:

Nick Browne (Essex, natch. Dreadful hairline)
Tom Abell (Somerset, awful season)
Sam Robson (yes, him - better now than last time around)
Rory Burns (Surrey, stodgy but effective, and I hate his dad)

[Ian]

I wasn't actually calling for Carberry, in case that wasn't clear.

What position does Daniel hyphen-Drummond bat? I see his name crop up a bit and I don't even follow county cricket. Is he any good?

[niko_cee]

Jennings just looks so static/timid at the crease, and being permanently petrified is probably the worst quality a batsman can have in Australia.

He should really be biffed, but he'll probably grind out a ton in the second innings now.

Could do with a meaningful contribution from Bairstow here. Counting down to jinx . . .

[Ian]

Mo having none of the short stuff here. :cool:

[Max Power]

I'm with Warne, this passage of cricket never makes much sense to me. Spread the field, four dead balls an over. Just shit.

Remember Angelo Mathews 150 at Headingley comprised almost entirely of boundaries from the 5th ball of the over and singles from the 6th.

[Max Power]

Doesn't help when Bairstow is absolutely on it

[Ian]

Anderson trying that shot with Bairstow closing in on a century. :D

[igor_balis]

YJB :( :D

Great innings though, and probably a series-sealing one. With rain forecast for the later days, you'd have to reckon South Africa's only chance was bowling us out fairly cheap, getting 500 odd then bowling us out on day 3/4. I'm guessing:

England 362
South Africa 256
England 307-8 DEC
ZA 189-5

[igor_balis]

JIMMY!

I'm revising my prediction to South Africa getting absolutely done for sub-150 here, but it still fizzling out in a draw. The coming rain and 2-1 advantage pretty much guarantees the series win, but I think will ruin the spectacle of the match as it progresses. Ho hum.

[Max Power]

Thanks for coming Theunis.

Oh Jimmy, Jimmy. He'll still be making mugs of tourists in summer 2021. Absolute artist.

[Danny]

Alex Hales in the blast.

95 off 30 balls.

[Ian]

Some wrong'un dressed as a Crusader filmed picking his nose and eating it there. :sick:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Faf with one of the worst reviews of all time there.

I love these Dalek voices the third umpires now apparently have.

[niko_cee]

With Hales in the actual form of his life it's a bit crimous he's not getting another run in the test team. Even if he is a white ball wanker, the people he'd be replacing are no better. Jennings is straight dreadful, and Malan is an inferior biffer.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Malan is/was a ropey pick in red ball. Yet another example of Bayliss just lobbing in people he's seen as opposed to people he hasn't been arsed to see.

[niko_cee]

Could probably do with 50 more runs to make this a bit safer, but getting rolled might not be the worst thing in terms of seeing a result in this one.

[ScousePig]

At least Hales will either get nothing and out quickly, or loads.

This spell reminds me of late on village cricket, when you're clinging on for a point or two.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Could probably do with 50 more runs to make this a bit safer, but getting rolled might not be the worst thing in terms of seeing a result in this one.

They've got more than enough already. Pitch doing everything.

[Dave.]

With Hales in the actual form of his life it's a bit crimous he's not getting another run in the test team. Even if he is a white ball wanker, the people he'd be replacing are no better. Jennings is straight dreadful, and Malan is an inferior biffer.

Does Hales bat in the middle order in Championship cricket for Nottinghamshire? I'm sure I've seen him bat there for them before.

Stoneman opening and him at 5 might be the best options we have at the moment.

[Gray Fox]

Highest ever test match run chase at Old Trafford is 294. You'd think it's only a matter of whether England get enough time to bowl at them. They need the weather to play ball.

[niko_cee]

Does Hales bat in the middle order in Championship cricket for Nottinghamshire? I'm sure I've seen him bat there for them before.

Stoneman opening and him at 5 might be the best options we have at the moment.

As I'm sure I've said earlier in the thread, I'd have given Hales a run at 5 to see what he made of it. Still would against the Windies. I think he's probably got a game that suits Australian conditions (see it, hit it) so he's worth a look for the winter. Most of our top order at the moment are going to be absolutely toast out there if their bowlers are anywhere near half decent.

Moeen in full flight. :cool:

[Max Power]

Stokes, Bairstow and Ali should bat 5,6,7. All are experienced international players who have scored big runs for England. No point rolling the dice on another middle order pick.

[Danny]

Caught in the pavilion by YJB when bringing up 50 :cool:

[Ian]

Mo. :cool:

He's some fucking man.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Stokes, Bairstow and Ali should bat 5,6,7. All are experienced international players who have scored big runs for England. No point rolling the dice on another middle order pick.

Could we pick a specialist number 8 bat? Like a club game. 'He's handy in the field too'.

I'm just thinking of ways to avoid Dancin' Liam Dawson coming back in.

[Max Power]

Woakes is fit now. He slots in at 8. The depth :drool: the bowling options :drool:

[niko_cee]

Everyone moving up the order only seems to end in disaster.

I suppose 5/6/7 are less of a problem if 2/3 can be sorted.

[Dave.]

Woakes is fit now. He slots in at 8. The depth :drool: the bowling options :drool:

No. We don't need six bowlers. Five is plenty enough for Test cricket, he possibly comes back in for Ronald-Jones.

I do think Stokes, Bairstow and Moeen could all move up one position though. I wouldn't be against us having a batsman at no.8.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Looks like the great man has saved the day again.

[Ian]

Is this his best match for us?

Just bloody love him. He might be my favourite cricketer in the time I've been watching.

[Max Power]

GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE MOEEN ALI.

Hales in the runs batting at five for Notts.

[Ian]

Imagine how good our number 1 spinner must be. :drool:

[niko_cee]

The Mighty Mo.

:cool:

[niko_cee]

Just noticed big Vern topped the saffer batting averages as well as the bowling ones.

[Ian]

So what's the thinking on Roots captaincy? Are his fields funky enough?

[niko_cee]

Team good, captain good.

Although, more seriously, I'm not sure the real test of captaincy ever comes in England. Our conditions allow for the game to progress without the need for much navel gazing. It's the misery of the second morning at the Gabba where funky fields become a thing.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Saffas have filled their first class cricket full of match fixing goons and shit Asians, they'll never be as good again.

Nasser said the same re. the real test of captaincy coming when the hockey ball they use is doing nothing, Greg Blewett is 117 not out and Malcolm Conn has filed a piece calling one of your middle order batsmen a poofter.

[Jimmy Floyd]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8052/game/1068563/Hampshire-vs-Lancashire--Specsavers-County-Championship-Division-One-2017/

Meanwhile at the Ageas Bowl.

[Luke Emia]

I know Hameed has been shite this year but why are they not just going with him? He's obviously the future in the way you could see that Cook was all them years ago. Just get him in and be done with it. it's not like anyone else has set the world alight and he wasn't even dropped on form anyway it was because he mashed his finger.

[Ian]

I agree. Unless Stoneman is in the sort of form where to not pick him would players wonder why they bother (there are probably some already in that position of they don't fit the ECB jolly-good-chap criteria) then I'd be getting Hameed in from the Windies onwards too.

[ItalAussie]

How does Cook not average 50?

He's better than at least some of the characters who've managed it.

[Danny]

Spent most of his career as an opener in England to be fair to him

[Ian]

And as good as he is he bloody loves a waft at a wide one, bless him.

[niko_cee]

Joe Root's the first English test batsman since Ken Barrington to average over 50. It's a different game when you spend half your life facing the Duke ball.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Opening batsmen who play in England can expect about 8-10 less as an average than those who play in sunny nations. Mike Atherton averaged under 40 but was definitely an English great of the genre.

[igor_balis]

I'm not sure who the answer is @5 (or if there even is one), but I really don't like YJB/Stokes/Ali at 5/6/7, if only because it just feels a shame to lose that ridiculously overpowered 6/7/8. Besides, they'd obviously never pick a specialist bat at 8, and even a crap #5 batter who averaged about 25 would add more to the team than having them 5/6/7 and having a sixth fucking bowler thrown in I reckon.