The EU Referendum thread - sponsored by Harold's YouTube videos

[Jimmy Floyd]

The best thing about all these Labour resignations is that Andy Burnham hasn't.

Corbz clinging on is dreamy, GS. His victory in the leadership contest would be the funniest thing ever to happen in British politics by some distance.

[Bartholomert]

This is good:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437147/brexit-and-end-international-progressive-inevitability

[Lee]

BBC deputy political editor John Pienaar says there's "absolutely no indication" that Jeremy Corbyn will stand down as Labour leader, in light of the mass walkouts from his top team.

He says the signs he's picking up from the leader's associates is that they are "digging in for a brutal war".

"But they will fight that battle to the death, they believe... they can win and that the ultimate price is going to paid not by them but by their colleagues who have risen against them in this mass insurrection."

FUCK ME.

[GS]

The best thing about all these Labour resignations is that Andy Burnham hasn't.

Corbz clinging on is dreamy, GS. His victory in the leadership contest would be the funniest thing ever to happen in British politics by some distance.

It would be superb at any time other than right now. We need effective government, for fuck sake, not this self-indulgent twattery. He thinks it's still a student common room.

[GS]

BBC deputy political editor John Pienaar says there's "absolutely no indication" that Jeremy Corbyn will stand down as Labour leader, in light of the mass walkouts from his top team.

He says the signs he's picking up from the leader's associates is that they are "digging in for a brutal war".

"But they will fight that battle to the death, they believe... they can win and that the ultimate price is going to paid not by them but by their colleagues who have risen against them in this mass insurrection."

FUCK ME.

They'll have to call his bluff and formally split, then. There's surely no way that it can continue. Can he even fill a shadow cabinet / team at this stage? He needs PPSs etc. as well, never mind just the headline shadow cabinet positions.

[Jimmy Floyd]

BBC deputy political editor John Pienaar says there's "absolutely no indication" that Jeremy Corbyn will stand down as Labour leader, in light of the mass walkouts from his top team.

He says the signs he's picking up from the leader's associates is that they are "digging in for a brutal war".

"But they will fight that battle to the death, they believe... they can win and that the ultimate price is going to paid not by them but by their colleagues who have risen against them in this mass insurrection."

FUCK ME.

:drool:

Apparently there are suggestions Corbyn personally voted Leave. What a fucking legend of a bloke.

[niko_cee]

In fairness to Jez, it's the PLP who are more out of touch with their base than he is. He's right to stick around. They should all be fucking off to start their own or join other parties.

It would be beyond brilliant if he'd voted to leave.

:D

[Max Power]

"The ultimate price"

Is he going to kill the defectors? This new series is really hotting up.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Seumas Milne is a Stalinist, so I wouldn't rule anything out.

[phonics]

The Thick of It team couldn't have written this.

747101029838299136

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OR46sAAyn8k/hqdefault.jpg
"THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD A PLAN, NOT US"

If I was a satirist at this point I'd retire. At least Private Eye can fall back on being the only newspaper in the country doing investigative journalism these days.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Angela Eagle has gone now, swiftly followed by 'Nia Griffith', who is definitely fake.

[Lewis]

Vote Leave could never have come up with a detailed exit plan without pissing half of it off. The point is that they (or, rather, the eventual government) have a mandate to leave.

[Bartholomert]

747101029838299136

If I was a satirist at this point I'd retire. At least Private Eye can fall back on being the only newspaper in the country doing investigative journalism these days.

No way that's real.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Whoops, there goes Maria Eagle too. Well into single figures now in terms of who's left.

[Lee]

No way that's real.

It is real, I'm afraid.

[phonics]

It is real, I'm afraid.

"That sounds like I'm making that up"

:D

He sounds so demoralised at the state of things it's almost heartwarming.

[Byron]

BBC deputy political editor John Pienaar says there's "absolutely no indication" that Jeremy Corbyn will stand down as Labour leader, in light of the mass walkouts from his top team.

He says the signs he's picking up from the leader's associates is that they are "digging in for a brutal war".

"But they will fight that battle to the death, they believe... they can win and that the ultimate price is going to paid not by them but by their colleagues who have risen against them in this mass insurrection."

FUCK ME.

What the Fuck.

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

You don't engage in language akin to the Red vs. White Russian Civil Fucking War. That is proper-mentalist behaviour and I'm starting to hope the rest can split off and leave this lot to set up the Communist Party of Britain.

Also that Faisal clip is amazing. I was pissing myself laughing the whole time.

I want to apologise to America. You lot are a slow constant burn of madness, but when we go mental it's just full on get out the cocaine we're doing naked windsurfing outside Buckingham Palace.

[phonics]

I want to apologise to America. You lot are a slow constant burn of madness, but when we go mental it's just full on get out the cocaine we're doing naked windsurfing outside Buckingham Palace.

Working in an International environment on Thursday was weird. Whenever the US does something silly we all point and laugh and the Americans go, "What can you do, we're a bunch of idiots". That day I knew what Americans abroad feel every day.

[Jimmy Floyd]

A Korean this morning told me Brexit will be brilliant, because we'll be able to negotiate a brilliant FTA with Korea.

Bibimbap for everyone.

[Byron]

A Korean this morning told me Brexit will be brilliant, because we'll be able to negotiate a brilliant FTA with Korea.

Bibimbap for everyone.

I do like the idea of cheap Kimchi.

[phonics]

Bibimbap for everyone.

If you'd told me this earlier I would have been driving my own version of the Boris Bus across Weston Super Mare

[Byron]

We're now at 19 Shadow Cabinet resignations (including 1 sacking), with a further 9 ministers and 8 PPS' resigning (the Eagle sisters are the latest to go)

Are Labour even going to have enough MP's for half a Shadow Cabinet at the end of this?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Corbz says he will replace all the resignations this afternoon, including some 'surprising names'.

How surprising are we talking, I wonder? Tony Blair? John Motson? Lord Lucan?

[Byron]

Peter Mandelson and Alistair Darling are waiting for the call as we speak.

[Disco]

Corbz says he will replace all the resignations this afternoon, including some 'surprising names'.

How surprising are we talking, I wonder? Tony Blair? John Motson? Lord Lucan?

I'd like it to be him in a succession of funny wigs and glasses.

[phonics]

He's actually just hiring the cast of The Thick Of It

Peter Capaldi as Comms Director
Blinky Ben for Shadow Defence

[Lee]

It's okay lads, Diane Abbott has arranged a pro-Corbyn demonstration for 6pm in Parliament Square.

[phonics]

It's okay lads, Diane Abbott has arranged a pro-Corbyn demonstration for 6pm in Parliament Square.

Him singing Bridge Over Troubled Waters would be even more appropriate than after Orlando.

Meanwhile:

747403569519693825

I'd take it

[Davgooner]

He's actually just hiring the cast of The Thick Of It

Peter Capaldi as Comms Director
Blinky Ben for Shadow Defence

Julius Nicholson has to be there.

[Jimmy Floyd]

'Those are nice biscuits, and they cost four pounds' could have been the Remain campaign slogan.

[Davgooner]

'Eat the cheese Nicholson!'

[GS]

My tally so far is that the following are left in position (excluding Tom Watson):

John McDonnell
Jon Trickett
Rosie Winterton
Diane Abbott
Emily Thornberry

You then have Andy Burnham and Luciana Berger, both of whom fancy a mayoral post so don't want to piss 'the membership' off and are thus sitting tight.

Remarkable scenes, really.

[Dquincy]

All correct, but the Remainer attitude (I'm talking about wankers on twitter here, but it's clearly a widely held thought in London) seems to be that the post-industrial white working class are actually some kind of untermensch whose views and lives are less valuable than their own.

Yes, I went there.

A small percentage of me is guilty for that.

But my gripe is to the group of people that voted out because they're unhappy with their shitty lives. And they think leaving the EU will change their lives, whereas if they changed their attitude and stopped being lazy work shy fucks, then this would probably give them a better life regardless of the EU.

[GS]

A small percentage of me is guilty for that.

But my gripe is to the group of people that voted out because they're unhappy with their shitty lives. And they think leaving the EU will change their lives, whereas if they changed their attitude and stopped being lazy work shy fucks, then this would probably give them a better life regardless of the EU.

Only a small percentage?

[GS]

Accelerated timetable for the Tory leadership confirmed. Nominations open Wednesday evening and close Thursday noon - bit like a game of Werewolf, really - and there will be a new leader by 2nd September.

Meanwhile, Angela Eagle is literally in tears on the radio discussing her discussion to resign.

[7om]

I see Germany have ruled out any informal talks before the official triggering of ARTICLE 50.

Just another piece of ammunition for the tories to not take us out.

[Dquincy]

Only a small percentage?

About 48% of me.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I see Germany have ruled out any informal talks before the official triggering of ARTICLE 50.

Just another piece of ammunition for the tories to not take us out.

Peace in our time.

[GS]

I see Germany have ruled out any informal talks before the official triggering of ARTICLE 50.

Just another piece of ammunition for the tories to not take us out.

There'll be a lot of shite thrown about over the next while, particularly as the EU will be desperate to pretend that it's all fine and it doesn't impact "the project". It's one of the reasons why Article 50 needs to be delayed, to allow calmer heads to prevail.

I suspect behind closed doors they're moving between SEETHING and wanting to burst into tears.

[Lee]

There is a rumour going about that Corbyn will ask the SNP to fill the shadow Scottish post.

Please be true. A coalition in opposition?

[GS]

There is a rumour going about that Corbyn will ask the SNP to fill the shadow Scottish post.

Please be true. A coalition in opposition?

Fuck off can that be right. :D

[7om]

I'd laugh if this turned into a metaphorical Allardyce vs Pulis shit off.

Both sides just sit their waiting for the other to crack whilst the markets remain unstable over the uncertainty. Lol at Schulz and his insistence we must formally declare leaving this Tuesday. Jog on, bruv.

[Byron]

Oh holy fuck. It's like Corbyn wants Labour to lose the next election.

[7om]

Please be true :D

[Lee]

Fuck off can that be right. :D

I cannot stress how much I'd like that to be true. How do you run out of people in your own party?

[Lee]

747413353228812289

If correct I reckon that might kill Brexit stone dead.

[Lewis]

Forget Labour. How does UKIP fight an election against a Conservative Party led by the figurehead of Vote Leave without risking fucking it right up?

[GS]

747413353228812289

If correct I reckon that might kill Brexit stone dead.

Fucking hell. There's no way we come out the other side of that with Brexit a serious possibility.

In other news:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl9ewK_WkAAjrz-.jpg

Burnham. What a wanker.

[Yevrah]

747413353228812289

If correct I reckon that might kill Brexit stone dead.

Bit slow on the uptake here, but how would that work?

[GS]

Bit slow on the uptake here, but how would that work?

They'll have to repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act - thus handing the prerogative to call a general election back to the PM, or have a vote of no confidence in the government approved by 66% of the MPs and thus trigger a general election.

Just repealing the act would be quicker, given it should never have existed in the first place. Another Lib Dem vanity exercise, that one.

[Yevrah]

From Eagle:


Jeremy doesn't respond when you ask him questions. He just absorbs it and doesn't say anything.

[Lee]

Bit slow on the uptake here, but how would that work?

It would depend on the outcome of the election but a newly elected parliament would supersede the outcome of a previously held referendum. If people vote for a party (or parties) who do not commit to activating article 50 then there's your mandate

If you're of the mind that Johnson, should he become leader, doesn't really want to leave, then a GE is his opportunity to achieve a mandate for that. Imagine him campaigning on his vision as set out in his article yesterday? If people vote for him on that basis there would be no leaving the EU.

The Lib Dems are already committed to rejecting Brexit. A lot will depend on what Labour can do re Corbyn. And UKIP are going to have a fantastic time.

[Lee]

From Eagle:

She is being very kind. He probably doesn't understand the fucking questions. Is he an autist?

[GS]

Apparently the dynamic of leadership meetings is John McDonnell sitting in and speaking 'on behalf' of Corbyn.

Corbyn is incompetent, but McDonnell is outright dangerous.

Labour are fucked.

[Lewis]

Andy Burnham is such a twat.

[Yevrah]

Regarding us not leaving, is there an article the EU can invoke to kick us out instead?

[GS]

These lads are heroes, by the way:

747421186297053184

[GS]

Regarding us not leaving, is there an article the EU can invoke to kick us out instead?

No - there's no existing provision for the EU to kick a member state out. Not that I'm aware of, anyway.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Forget Labour. How does UKIP fight an election against a Conservative Party led by the figurehead of Vote Leave without risking fucking it right up?

It won't. In a Leave-on-Leave battle, UKIP will get slaughtered by Boris. Tapping into racists or not, they're an amateur operation.

[Lewis]

Fair play to George Osborne, by the way. He may well just be trying to salvage his career and his reputation, but it would have been very easy for him to spit his dummy and ponce off, so hopefully he gets a bit of credit for doing what he can to calm things down.

[7om]

I don't see how Johnson can fight a General Election (and win) on the grounds of now not leaving the EU. As incompetent as Labour are it would be an easy selling point for them: this geezer is a liar.

[Yevrah]

I don't see how Johnson can fight a General Election (and win) on the grounds of now not leaving the EU. As incompetent as Labour are it would be an easy selling point for them: this geezer is a liar.

He gambled on backing a side he didn't want to win and lost and while it may take a while, I'm pretty sure his career's over now as a result.

Catastrophic levels of mis-judgement all round really.

[phonics]

These lads are heroes, by the way:

747421186297053184

And now all the Leavers are claiming he's made it up to make Leavers look silly.

[Lee]

I don't see how Johnson can fight a General Election (and win) on the grounds of now not leaving the EU. As incompetent as Labour are it would be an easy selling point for them: this geezer is a liar.

He wouldn't. He'd go to the country on the basis of the deal he wants for the UK, which appears to be that we get all the benefits of membership and none of the disadvantages.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Labour are achingly irrelevant, Boris could win an election against them by farting out commands from his shagging chamber.

[phonics]

747430986720382976

Christ.

[Lewis]

I wanted to see whether my National Government idea worked on paper, which it does, so I sent it to the Huffington Post who 'like it a lot'. Unfortunately, they want to give me a blogger profile and everything, when I just wanted to have it published under Cill E. Kunt, so now I'm not as bothered.

It's got 'seething' and 'quite excellent' in, so please advise.

[Pepe]

Lewis a blogger. :D

You obviously have to pursue it.

[Pepe]

The Huffington Post though. :sick:

[Yevrah]

You're letting TTH down if you don't follow that through Lewis.

[Lewis]

I'll ask them if TTH can share the profile and upload whatever we feel like.

17 Reasons Why Paul Ince Is Robert Mugabe

[SvN]

Try and smuggle a TTH business card into your profile photo

[Bernanke]

What's with "negosiations" and "issssssue" from Cameron and Corbyn? Is it posh pronounciation?

[Chrissy]

Looks very likely we will have another Indy ref up here. Fucking nightmare scenario in my opinion. I do not associate myself as more European than British and I honestly believe that even though I voted against Brexit, we are more than capable of renegotiating the UK's place in the world.

Fucking nationalism.

[GS]

The SNP rhetoric is for one because it needs to keep the base agitated and motivated, but Sturgeon can't go for it without a consistent lead in the polls. Over a third of SNP supporters voted to leave, as well as 38% of Scots.

If it ends up a choice between two unions, which is how they're portraying it, then there's no guarantee of winning it. She knows rightly that losing a second one puts an end to her hopes of being some sort of 21st century William Wallace type.

[7om]

Do it, Lewis.

[Jimmy Floyd]

No chance whatsoever Scotland votes for independence.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Even polls have only shown around 53% voting yes now, that's while everyone is stoked up. When folk calm down and realise they'll have to join the euro and the eurozone...

[Gray Fox]

Isn't overconfidence as to what people will vote what landed us where we are now?

[phonics]

People still quoting polls. Christ.

Polls. Don't. Matter. The. Models. Are. Fucked.

[GS]

Isn't overconfidence as to what people will vote what landed us where we are now?

That, but also a profound underestimating of the strength of feeling on the leave side. There was a strong emotional argument against the EU.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

People still quoting polls. Christ.

Polls. Don't. Matter. The. Models. Are. Fucked.

Why? The final ones for this were mainly wrong but it was always extremely tight either way if you look back over the past few weeks. It still indicates swings and I'd expect to see bigger swings towards Scottish independence when everyone is still frothing at the mouth.

[John]

I wanted to see whether my National Government idea worked on paper, which it does, so I sent it to the Huffington Post who 'like it a lot'. Unfortunately, they want to give me a blogger profile and everything, when I just wanted to have it published under Cill E. Kunt, so now I'm not as bothered.

It's got 'seething' and 'quite excellent' in, so please advise.

You'll get a job doing opinion pieces out of that once your book comes out. Do it.

[GS]

Gibraltar are apparently speaking with Scotland to circumvent the result and find a way to stay in the EU.

Fancy Spanish sovereignty, lads? That'd be a way.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We could vote ourselves off Earth, and we still wouldn't be letting the Spaniard get his grubby, piratical hands on the Rock.

[Lee]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/brussels-rejects-boris-johnson-pipe-dream-over-single-market-access

"Fuck off Boris, you daft cunt."

[Dquincy]

With the EU firmly stating they will hold no informal negotiations with the UK until article 50 is envoked, this is going to become an interesting game of cat and mouse.

Good for the EU I say. They're kinda calling the UK's bluff.

[Lee]

Caroline Lucas is Shadow Secretary for Energy and Climate Change. :D

Lucas seems a decent sort so fair play to her and all that. But Corbyn is literally forming a coalition in opposition. :harold:

EDIT: Ah, it's being denied now.

[GS]

We could vote ourselves off Earth, and we still wouldn't be letting the Spaniard get his grubby, piratical hands on the Rock.

I'd send the army in before I'd hand over Gibraltar to the Spanish without the former's express consent. You'd fancy us to take them, so we might as well annex somewhere else as well. Perhaps Catalonia.


With the EU firmly stating they will hold no informal negotiations with the UK until article 50 is envoked, this is going to become an interesting game of cat and mouse.

Good for the EU I say. They're kinda calling the UK's bluff.

We'll see how long it stands. It strikes me as a difficult thing to maintain, as there's surely no way such negotiations would be completed within two years.

[Lewis]

You'll get a job doing opinion pieces out of that once your book comes out. Do it.

Having since found out that they only publish under made up names if your life is at risk, I feel bad for cheapening it now, so what other TTH terms should I crowbar into it before I upload it?

[Pepe]

Having since found out that they only publish under made up names if your life is at risk, I feel bad for cheapening it now, so what other TTH terms should I crowbar into it before I upload it?

Chimpout.

[Gray Fox]

Right then, I'm a little slower on the uptake but I'm trying to figure what the current situation is.

I have it as this:

The leave vote wins. Cameron wants no part of this and hands in his notice, passing the Article 50 buck to his successor. This then changes everything. Instead of Boris or whoever sweeping in and taking control of a country already committed to pulling out of the EU, he is now part of a leadership battle to take control of a party who now has a choice not to pull the plug. Most of the party would prefer they don't active Article 50, instead looking to a general election. This would allow them to effectively ignore the referendum and give people the choice again. Vote Tory and stay in the EU or vote UKIP to leave it.
Meanwhile in 'The Opposition' Corbyn has lost the faith of just about every MP below him. He was accused of not really bothering too much about the remain campaign, even perhaps voting leave himself, against the view of the party. He has alienated himself from his core voter base, but still carries mass support from party members. His position seems both untenable and secure at the same time. He has lost 42 front benchers in 48 hours, yet vows to carry on. The party is a shambles.

The Leave campaign has turned out to essentially be an empty threat, expected to lose and disappear. The win has shown they never had even a hint of a plan, nor anyone even close enough to a position of power to be able to act on one. Cameron and Osborne know this and are in hiding while this is going on.
Brussels knows the party that currently holds the power, does not want out of the EU and so is calling our bluff. No concessions will be made in order to deter other nations watching closely.

Boris is essentially finished. He either has to turn his back on Brexit, his partys wishes or, be potentially the man to split apart the UK and EU.
The Labour leadership coup is stalling. Corbyn is flat out refusing to budge and so they either need a leadership vote or they will have to split to a form a new party.
Farage is waiting eagerly for an election. He can hoover up the pissed off Labour voters and assuming the Tory side go pro-EU with their new leader, take those who are angry their leave vote did nothing. Real possibility of UKIP cementing 2nd largest number of MPs, possible even to go to largest.

We won't be triggering Article 50 ever, unless Farage takes power. However if we don't, absolutely nothing will change.

Am I about right there?

[GS]

The media reaction has been lol.

Robert Peston and the entirety of Channel 4 couldn't be more outraged if they tried.

There's a sizeable crowd marching for Corbyn outside parliament at the minute, including members of the SWP. You'd think you'd join the Labour party if you were that fussed, but STOP THE TORIES I suppose.

[Jimmy Floyd]

(@ Gray Fox) You're right except I think you overestimate Farage and UKIP, both are clueless.

[Yevrah]

Farage knows what's going on, he's nailing it on C4 news now about us not actually leaving.

[GS]

Right then, I'm a little slower on the uptake but I'm trying to figure what the current situation is.

I have it as this:

The leave vote wins. Cameron wants no part of this and hands in his notice, passing the Article 50 buck to his successor. This then changes everything. Instead of Boris or whoever sweeping in and taking control of a country already committed to pulling out of the EU, he is now part of a leadership battle to take control of a party who now has a choice not to pull the plug. Most of the party would prefer they don't active Article 50, instead looking to a general election. This would allow them to effectively ignore the referendum and give people the choice again. Vote Tory and stay in the EU or vote UKIP to leave it.

The party would need to pull the plug, but will surely try and find some way around it. A new general election may allow them to pretend there's a mandate for it, whilst they could claim that the Leave side 'misrepresented' certain facts on the impact on the British economy and they're therefore going to go to the country again on that basis. It would be tenuous at best, but put nothing past them. I think we can expect a general election, anyway.


Meanwhile in 'The Opposition' Corbyn has lost the faith of just about every MP below him. He was accused of not really bothering too much about the remain campaign, even perhaps voting leave himself, against the view of the party. He has alienated himself from his core voter base, but still carries mass support from party members. His position seems both untenable and secure at the same time. He has lost 42 front benchers in 48 hours, yet vows to carry on. The party is a shambles.

This is correct. It appears that not only was Corbyn clearly lukewarm, but that the leadership actively sabotaged the official Labour In campaign by watering down statements and refusing to undertake any sort of cross party cooperation. There was polling (yeah, I know) which suggested that a cross party show of support might move Labour voters, but Corbyn point blank refused.

Ultimately Agent Jez doesn't give a shit. He probably did vote to Leave on Thursday, but his battles are on Trident and other abstract shite like this. Some of the membership may have turned against him, but his mates are apparently undertaking a new recruitment drive to sign up more £3 members to shore him up. Labour and Jezza have conflicting legal advice about whether he automatically goes back onto the ballot paper in the event of a leadership challenge, so it could get very messy indeed. There's genuine danger of a formal split, at which point Labour would cease to exist as a viable party. This wouldn't be a gang of four moment - it would be a full on formal split where the minority are in the existing Labour party.


The Leave campaign has turned out to essentially be an empty threat, expected to lose and disappear. The win has shown they never had even a hint of a plan, nor anyone even close enough to a position of power to be able to act on one. Cameron and Osborne know this and are in hiding while this is going on.
Brussels knows the party that currently holds the power, does not want out of the EU and so is calling our bluff. No concessions will be made in order to deter other nations watching closely.

I would disagree. Leave aren't responsible for developing a plan. They were a campaign group, not a government in waiting or an alternative government. Those suggesting that they want to see "the plan" are being disingenuous, as it wasn't Leave's responsibility to create a formal one. They have ideas, certainly, but on account of not forming the executive or a majority in the legislative branches of government they are simply not in a position to create one. They probably did expect to lose, but it was entirely the executive's responsibility (supported by the civil service) to have the necessary contingency planning in place and it appears they haven't bothered. People need sacked.

Brussels aren't calling our bluff, as such. They're terrified of contagion, and giving succour to other eurosceptic parties. It's a bit like the start of the American civil war really. We want to secede. They'd rather we didn't, but rather than go to war to stop us they're preparing to be as truculent as possible to discourage other movements from thinking it's a great idea. Eventually they'll have to back down, because to continue this ridiculous path of economic self-immolation will see the bloc held together through coercion and bullying of smaller states by German economic hegemony. I'm fairly sure we fought a world war to stop that sort of shite from happening on the continent, but there you go.

It's posturing, basically. I expect it will change, and that's not something I say as an optimistic 'head in the clouds' view from a leave voter.


Boris is essentially finished. He either has to turn his back on Brexit, his partys wishes or, be potentially the man to split apart the UK and EU.
The Labour leadership coup is stalling. Corbyn is flat out refusing to budge and so they either need a leadership vote or they will have to split to a form a new party.
Farage is waiting eagerly for an election. He can hoover up the pissed off Labour voters and assuming the Tory side go pro-EU with their new leader, take those who are angry their leave vote did nothing. Real possibility of UKIP cementing 2nd largest number of MPs, possible even to go to largest.

Boris may be finished. It depends what sort of deal he comes back with. I suspect he's not a true believer, and may agree some sort of watered down version that is so shit that he finds a way to go back to the country to annul it and maintain membership. A general election today would see Labour routed, but a Tory government supporting the invocation of Article 50 (and being in a position to deliver it) would clean up any UKIP support, I suspect. As Jimmy says, UKIP are an amateur operation and full of people who would struggle to speak sentences in public. Their talent base isn't deep, and the Tories could run eurosceptic candidates in any number of areas to undercut their support.


We won't be triggering Article 50 ever, unless Farage takes power. However if we don't, absolutely nothing will change.

Am I about right there?

We might not, which would be lol. Something would change, which is that you might as well close Westminster down and become a province of the Fourth Reich - because that's what's going to happen if we BOTTLE it.

[Lee]

Farage knows what's going on, he's nailing it on C4 news now about us not actually leaving.

He'll have known all along and he'll be delighted. It's electoral dynamite for his lot.

[GS]

Farage knows what's going on, he's nailing it on C4 news now about us not actually leaving.

Imagine the fallout.

Just imagine it. You'd never see the smug faces of Juncker and Schulz off the TV if we bottle it.

[Yevrah]

We're bottling it.

I just need to find a bookie with a tempting set of terms with which to make some money from.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The oracle has spoken. Oh well, at least everyone won't have to get their numberplates changed.

[GS]

I do wonder if Cameron and Osborne deliberately 'went missing' over the weekend to accentuate the sense of chaos immediately after the result, with a view to hammering the point home that it's a vote with cost. If they go back to the country at some point, it would give remain campaigners a clear precedent for "it's not worth it, lads".

[Lee]

I do wonder if Cameron and Osborne have deliberately 'went missing' to accentuate the sense of chaos, with a view to hammering the point home that it's a vote with cost. If they go back to the country, it would give remain campaigners a clear precedent for "it's not worth it, lads".

That crossed my mind earlier.

"Told you so, lads."

I dismissed it as being too far fetched. Then I remembered everything else that's going on.

[Lee]

We're bottling it.

I just need to find a bookie with a tempting set of terms with which to make some money from.

We won't completely bottle it, I don't think. I'm not sure how we could, practically speaking. What set of events lead to the government (new or old) just ignoring the referendum outcome? EEA membership beckons. Which is a bit pointless.

[Chrissy]

No chance whatsoever Scotland votes for independence.

I wouldn't be so sure sadly. Westminster has created such a clusterfuck with this brexit pish, it's very viable it will happen now.

[Lee]

'Labour MP Steve Reed says Jeremy Corbyn "didn't seem to have heard a single word anyone's said" in the meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party.

"There'll be a leadership election," says MP Phil Wilson.

Another MP is reported to be "too seething to speak".'

:D

Who from here is a Labour MP? Is that where Taz went?

[Magic]

We've lost our Jewish AAA rating.

[Gray Fox]

Vote of no confidence in Corbyn carries to a secret ballot tomorrow. This should be interesting.

[Chinny Hill]

We've lost our Jewish AAA rating.
The USA did once, whilst the Isle of Man kept there's.... Just leftie organizations who are full of their own self importance.

[Lewis]

There are lots of stories today about countries who want trade agreements with us. If we already had a load of those ready to go before leaving the European Union would have a lot less leverage.

[Kikó]

Standard and Poor are a leftie organisation?

[Chinny Hill]

Standard and Poor are a leftie organisation?

More Champagne Socialists than a Tony Blair barbeque mate.

[Lee]

More Champagne Socialists than a Tony Blair barbeque mate.

You ought to be off here and preparing for your new career as an MP from October.

[Kikó]

More Champagne Socialists than a Tony Blair barbeque mate.

Based on what?

[Chinny Hill]

Based on what?

Any company whose main workforce is from New York is always nailed on. But the fact that their acting CEO is on the board of 2 Uni's, plus the fact that they funded Clinton's campaign speaks for itself.

[Gray Fox]

The party would need to pull the plug, but will surely try and find some way around it. A new general election may allow them to pretend there's a mandate for it, whilst they could claim that the Leave side 'misrepresented' certain facts on the impact on the British economy and they're therefore going to go to the country again on that basis. It would be tenuous at best, but put nothing past them. I think we can expect a general election, anyway.



This is correct. It appears that not only was Corbyn clearly lukewarm, but that the leadership actively sabotaged the official Labour In campaign by watering down statements and refusing to undertake any sort of cross party cooperation. There was polling (yeah, I know) which suggested that a cross party show of support might move Labour voters, but Corbyn point blank refused.

Ultimately Agent Jez doesn't give a shit. He probably did vote to Leave on Thursday, but his battles are on Trident and other abstract shite like this. Some of the membership may have turned against him, but his mates are apparently undertaking a new recruitment drive to sign up more £3 members to shore him up. Labour and Jezza have conflicting legal advice about whether he automatically goes back onto the ballot paper in the event of a leadership challenge, so it could get very messy indeed. There's genuine danger of a formal split, at which point Labour would cease to exist as a viable party. This wouldn't be a gang of four moment - it would be a full on formal split where the minority are in the existing Labour party.



I would disagree. Leave aren't responsible for developing a plan. They were a campaign group, not a government in waiting or an alternative government. Those suggesting that they want to see "the plan" are being disingenuous, as it wasn't Leave's responsibility to create a formal one. They have ideas, certainly, but on account of not forming the executive or a majority in the legislative branches of government they are simply not in a position to create one. They probably did expect to lose, but it was entirely the executive's responsibility (supported by the civil service) to have the necessary contingency planning in place and it appears they haven't bothered. People need sacked.

Brussels aren't calling our bluff, as such. They're terrified of contagion, and giving succour to other eurosceptic parties. It's a bit like the start of the American civil war really. We want to secede. They'd rather we didn't, but rather than go to war to stop us they're preparing to be as truculent as possible to discourage other movements from thinking it's a great idea. Eventually they'll have to back down, because to continue this ridiculous path of economic self-immolation will see the bloc held together through coercion and bullying of smaller states by German economic hegemony. I'm fairly sure we fought a world war to stop that sort of shite from happening on the continent, but there you go.

It's posturing, basically. I expect it will change, and that's not something I say as an optimistic 'head in the clouds' view from a leave voter.



Boris may be finished. It depends what sort of deal he comes back with. I suspect he's not a true believer, and may agree some sort of watered down version that is so shit that he finds a way to go back to the country to annul it and maintain membership. A general election today would see Labour routed, but a Tory government supporting the invocation of Article 50 (and being in a position to deliver it) would clean up any UKIP support, I suspect. As Jimmy says, UKIP are an amateur operation and full of people who would struggle to speak sentences in public. Their talent base isn't deep, and the Tories could run eurosceptic candidates in any number of areas to undercut their support.



We might not, which would be lol. Something would change, which is that you might as well close Westminster down and become a province of the Fourth Reich - because that's what's going to happen if we BOTTLE it.

Fair enough on the point of the Leave campaign. I'm really surprised that the Tory bunch had no plan in place though. They should have known it would be close enough for a possible loss.

UKIP are amateur, but we saw the power of the emotional vote last week. There will be a lot of OUTRAGE at the leave vote not being acted on. I feel they'll play well to this. But you're right. If we bottle this we might as well appoint Merkel as our glorious leader.

[Magic]

Iceland know how to defend meandering balls in. :cool:

[Magic]

Christ I wondered where that post was. I must have blacked out after reading GS' nonsense ramblings and thought I'd changed threads.

[Shindig]

How's this for a Plan F?

1. SNP veto the exit.
2. Cameron's successor gets up on stage and says, "If we move, we move as one."
3. SNP take the hit. I.e. no hit. UKIP get pissy at the Scots but, ultimately, they're doing what's best for Scotland's interests.
4. We stay in the EU and the Tories try to play it as a show of unity, rather than weakness.

[Byron]

England: same shit band, same shit tunes

Iceland: clapping and chanting in unison making them sounds like fucking Vikings.

[Byron]

Fuck sake, wrong thread.

[Raoul Duke]

Or not?

[Byron]

Same principles probably apply.

[Magic]

Not the only one. :drool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Meanwhile, over with the Tories, Jeremy Hunt is apparently set to stand for leader. It's like a fuckwit of the year contest.

[Lee]

Meanwhile, over with the Tories, Jeremy Hunt is apparently set to stand for leader. It's like a fuckwit of the year contest.

For fuck's sake.

[Shindig]

I'd prefer him as Chancellor for the inevitable Jeremy Chunt.

[GS]

Why would Hunt even bother?

[Lewis]

For the same reason Tony Blair still does the rounds offering his opinions. Because he's an egomaniac and probably doesn't realise how unpopular he is.

[John]

The USA did once, whilst the Isle of Man kept there's.... Just leftie organizations who are full of their own self importance.

That's the best combination of two common fuck ups I've seen in a while.

[Reg]

How likely is another national election in the next few months?

[Lee]

The consensus seems to be that it's almost certain. We'll see how things settle.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Richard Burgon is on Newsnight now and he is, I think, the worst politician I have ever seen. He's also the new Shadow Justice Secretary.

[Gray Fox]

How likely is another national election in the next few months?

By the sounds of it very likely. Even by the end of the year.

If they don't, pressure to act on the referendum grows by each day.

[Yevrah]

I must be getting so old. There are far many more MILF's in politics than there used to be.

Heidi Allen's the latest on the list.

[Lewis]

Richard Burgon is on Newsnight now and he is, I think, the worst politician I have ever seen. He's also the new Shadow Justice Secretary.

He should be used to illustrate that an Oxbridge degree doesn't actually mean that much.

[GS]

I must be getting so old. There are far many more MILF's in politics than there used to be.

Heidi Allen's the latest on the list.

I find Lisa Nandy compelling.

I don't know.

[Lewis]

Lisa Nandy looks like Genghis Khan.

[Lee]

I must be getting so old. There are far many more MILF's in politics than there used to be.

Heidi Allen's the latest on the list.

I spent a good five minutes debating whether or not Lisa Nandy was worth a wank earlier.

[Pepe]

Throw that shite in the Shameful Lustage thread ffs.

[GS]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/team-corbyn-defiant-parliamentary-party-turns/

He's mentally ill.

The Mirror have had enough and told him to fuck off which will, no doubt, have no impact whatsoever on anything:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl_THCFWkAQpt8f.jpg

In Tory news, junior whips are 'intimidating' MPs into backing Theresa May, whilst Murdoch is set to come out in clear support for Boris.

:sick:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Tim Farron as PM by October in a massive Lib Dem landslide.

Eee.

[Lewis]

I read earlier that a load of papers were going to reveal that Jezza voted to leave, so obviously that has been knocked back.

[Lee]

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2016/06/27/amanpour-intv-danniel-hannan.cnn

This interview is Farage's wet dream

The segment on voters and immigration. :D

The retard in the barber's chair is amazing.

[Yevrah]

Hannan needs to stop peddling that fucking book.

The leavers appear to be bottling this left, right and centre.

Oh and barber chair man needs his own show. :D

[GS]

Hannan did well not to nut her there.

[GS]

Hannan needs to stop peddling that fucking book.

The leavers appear to be bottling this left, right and centre.

Oh and barber chair man needs his own show. :D

To be fair to Hannan, he's always maintained a consistent line on these things. If he hadn't slagged off the NHS, he'd have been far more prominent than he was. These people continue to make the fundamental mistake of confusing a campaign with an alternative government in waiting. They must be refusing to acknowledge the difference on purpose.

[Lee]

Hannan did well not to nut her there.

I like Hannan and she was an arse. But the emerging picture is one of the Leave lot doing everything possible to claim that immigration wasn't what people were voting against. It's a lie and they know it. They also know they can't deliver on immigration.

[GS]

I like Hannan and she was an arse. But the emerging picture is one of the Leave lot doing everything possible to claim that immigration wasn't what people were voting against. It's a lie and they know it. They also know they can't deliver on immigration.

Perhaps you can't trust polling, but post-vote polling suggests that c. 50% voted on sovereignty and c. 33% voted on immigration. Bracketing it all as "against immigration" is quite narrow, I think. That said, there's definitely a subset of idiots who think they've voted for deportations of people they don't like the look of. That's more of a reflection on them than the "Vote Leave" campaign itself, mind you. Gove was always firmly on message when he was the official representative too.

If Farage has whipped people up on this, so be it. But it's not something you can hold everyone who campaigned for Leave to as if every public utterance by a leave campaign can be aggregated and somehow constituted into a manifesto, unofficial or otherwise.

[Lee]

Perhaps you can't trust polling, but post-vote polling suggests that c. 50% voted on sovereignty and c. 33% voted on immigration. Bracketing it all as "against immigration" is quite narrow, I think. That said, there's definitely a subset of idiots who think they've voted for deportations of people they don't like the look of. That's more of a reflection on them than the "Vote Leave" campaign itself, mind you. Gove was always firmly on message when he was the official representative too.

If Farage has whipped people up on this, so be it. But it's not something you can hold everyone who campaigned for Leave to as if every public utterance by a leave campaign can be aggregated and somehow constituted into a manifesto, unofficial or otherwise.

The polls were pretty good for this. A third of voters is a huge chunk of Leave's support. I don't think people get to dismiss Farage's tactics when they were happy to take advantage of them to get over the winning line.

Do you really think there's any chance that the official leave campaign weren't very happy for Farage's gang to be going on as they were? It meant they had somebody doing the dirty stuff for them and it got them their victory. They didn't win a referendum on a libertarian platform and I think it's a bit much for them to be washing their hands of the more unpleasant elements of the campaign now.

[GS]

It is, but it's important to recognise that it's one of a range of issues.


But the emerging picture is one of the Leave lot doing everything possible to claim that immigration wasn't what people were voting against. It's a lie and they know it.

But I think this wording suggests that it's what everybody was voting against, rather than a minority, sizeable as it may be, of the support.

On the question of delivering on immigration, I suppose it depends what people accept as 'delivering'. I'm all for the points based system, as it makes perfect sense and stops the farce of discriminating against non-EU migrants in favour of EU ones. That said, immigration doesn't affect me negatively in any way whatsoever, so I personally don't particularly care if the points based system sees just as many come in - providing the necessary infrastructure and services are available to cope.

And to be fair to the Leave side, there were plenty of valid arguments put forward as to why one might want to vote leave that were wholly separate from immigration - particularly on sovereignty. There was a fairly concerted campaign by the remain side, supported by certain elements of the media (alright, the Guardian) to try and ascribe collective responsibility for Farage's shite to all leave voters - as if a vote to leave was an endorsement, intended or otherwise, of his views and thus you should be ashamed of yourself for having the audacity not to vote for TOLERANCE and DECENCY by voting remain. I can understand why that might affront people like Hannan or Carswell, who seem to be fully on board the sovereignty train, and why they're thus keen to dispel the notion when challenged on it.

[Lee]

Jeremy Hunt is all over the Times promoting the idea of a second referendum. That's Jeremy Hunt thr ally of David Cameron and George Osborne. Wonder who has sent him out to play? The lot of them are shameless.

[Lee]

It is, but it's important to recognise that it's one of a range of issues.



But I think this wording suggests that it's what everybody was voting against, rather than a minority, sizeable as it may be, of the support.

On the question of delivering on immigration, I suppose it depends what people accept as 'delivering'. I'm all for the points based system, as it makes perfect sense and stops the farce of discriminating against non-EU migrants in favour of EU ones. That said, immigration doesn't affect me negatively in any way whatsoever, so I personally don't particularly care if the points based system sees just as many come in - providing the necessary infrastructure and services are available to cope.

And to be fair to the Leave side, there were plenty of valid arguments put forward as to why one might want to vote leave that were wholly separate from immigration - particularly on sovereignty. There was a fairly concerted campaign by the remain side, supported by certain elements of the media (alright, the Guardian) to try and ascribe collective responsibility for Farage's shite to all leave voters - as if a vote to leave was an endorsement, intended or otherwise, of his views and thus you should be ashamed of yourself for having the audacity not to vote for TOLERANCE and DECENCY by voting remain. I can understand why that might affront people like Hannan or Carswell, who seem to be fully on board the sovereignty train, and why they're thus keen to dispel the notion when challenged on it.

The main Leavers appear to want EEA membership. There will be no points system under those circumstances.

[GS]

Do you really think there's any chance that the official leave campaign weren't very happy for Farage's gang to be going on as they were? It meant they had somebody doing the dirty stuff for them and it got them their victory. They didn't win a referendum on a libertarian platform and I think it's a bit much for them to be washing their hands of the more unpleasant elements of the campaign now.

I think you edited this bit, so will address it separately.

I suspect they didn't object when he was making points about quality of life etc. etc., but I'd say there was a palpable sense of unease every time he went near a microphone in case he said something outrageous. I thought it was quite off the level of coverage the media gave Farage, especially given he wasn't part of the official campaign and thus interviews / debates etc. should have focused on the official representatives.

Gove was quick to dissociate himself from that fucking poster, which is where I think he crossed the line from valid concerns (if using somewhat unfortunate language) into really quite unpleasant territory.

That said, I don't doubt for a second that the 'two campaigns' strategy ended up working well for them so maybe I should be more cynical.

[GS]

The main Leavers appear to want EEA membership. There will be no points system under those circumstances.

If we end up with EEA, yes.

I'd sooner stay in the EU than accept EEA. If that's what we end up with, then we might as well just abolish the country and become a province of the Reich. I'm not joking either - we'd basically be conceding that we're finished.

[Shindig]

I wonder how much of the markets tumbling is the City (tm) trying to force the government's hand.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Apparently Juncker has banned all EU officials from talking to UK officials until Article 50 is triggered.

lol at Juncker.

[Bartholomert]

Apparently Juncker has banned all EU officials from talking to UK officials until Article 50 is triggered.

lol at Juncker.

Pretty alpha, didn't think he had it in him.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The latest is that if Corbyn can't find enough MPs to fill his shadow cabinet, he and McDonnell will take on the vacant roles themselves and appear in parliament under different guises.

He's just not going. What a boy.

[Byron]

And suddenly Disco's idea of different wigs and mustaches is closer to reality.

You really couldn't fucking make it up.

[Lee]

Boris Johnson is briefing that his Telegraph article was written when he was tired and doesn't represent his vision for Europe.

Is he pissed? Does anybody in the country know what they're are doing? All we need now is for ISIS to blow the tube up and the military can stage a coup.

[Jimmy Floyd]

A military coup, followed by a Prince Philip dictatorship for a few years might not be the worst idea actually.

At least the Queen has managed to cheer everyone up by donning Martin McGuinness.

[Boydy]

Fucking hell. The whole place is falling apart.

[Disco]

When shit that I make up starts being reflected by reality you know you're fucked.

[Lee]

In further "Twitter says politicians are briefing news" we have Corbyn and McDonnell adamant that they will stay in and take additional front bench briefs themselves if necessary.

It's nearly at the point where Nigel fucking Farage could whip up protests in the streets and be President of the Cunt Isles by tea time tomorrow.

[niko_cee]

Leicester have thrown the world dangerously out of balance.

[Lee]

I think there is a very good chance that Leicester winning the league means that nothing I want to happen will ever come off again.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've decided Boris isn't going to win the Tory leadership, and also that we aren't going to leave the EU. The much more pressing concern is somehow uniting the Pret and Poundland classes.

I want Stephen Crabb.

[Serj]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ZTuh52wXE

Farage is loving it.

[Lee]

I've decided Boris isn't going to win the Tory leadership, and also that we aren't going to leave the EU. The much more pressing concern is somehow uniting the Pret and Poundland classes.

I want Stephen Crabb.

I think Boris becoming leader is the only way we don't leave. Any other candidate takes us out. I don't think he'll win it though. Smithson might have been on to something with his Leadsom tip months back. She's impressive. She has baggage though. God help us all if it's Fox.

I agree that doing something about what appears to be a frighteningly fractured population should be the main priority.Fuck knows how though.

Do you see an election being called? My money is on May next year. Time for a new government to devise a Brexit plan to put to the electorate.

Farage needs to stop being a knob by the way. He's won, now fuck off. He is doing us no favours. Can MI5 not sort him out now?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think Boris becoming leader is the only way we don't leave. Any other candidate takes us out. I don't think he'll win it though. Smithson might have been on to something with his Leadsom tip months back. She's impressive. She has baggage though. God help us all if it's Fox.

I agree that doing something about what appears to be a frighteningly fractured population should be the main priority.Fuck knows how though.

Do you see an election being called? My money is on May next year. Time for a new government to devise a Brexit plan to put to the electorate.

Farage needs to stop being a knob by the way. He's won, now fuck off. He is doing us no favours. Can MI5 not sort him out now?

At the moment we don't have either a government or an opposition, so I'd say an election needs to happen as soon as possible and the next man or woman needs to have a full and renewed mandate.

The key struggle is for control of the Labour party apparatus. If Corbyn wins that, I can see a mass breakaway to form Progressive/National Labour or some shit, or even a merger with the Lib Dems, and Labour will lose. Alternatively, if he doesn't win, then Momentum will split the Labour party from the other side, with less disastrous electoral consequences.

The new Conservative leader will be able to go to the country to seek a mandate for whatever it is they want to do (depending on who it is). Boris can't keep us in if he wins, because that would be plainly hypocritical, but if a Tory Remainer wins the leadership and then a general election on a nakedly expressed platform of not respecting the referendum result, then we won't leave. It may be that Farage is the only party leader to campaign to respect the result.

Such a leader would leak working class votes to UKIP, but those will hurt Labour (or Progressive Labour) much more.

The fact that Cameron hasn't invoked Article 50 will lead to us not leaving, which is why he's done it, his final gift to the nation, or so he would like to think.

[Gray Fox]

To be fair Farage has been working towards pulling off Brexit for a while and it's not yet been a week since he got the result of his dreams. I'll allow him a little smugness.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Corbyn has lost his no confidence vote. 172 to 40.

Hang in there, Jezza. You're still in a position of strength.

[phonics]

Slightly unrelated but this account that puts dril tweets on MPs is brilliant

747719728806891520

746150978760675328

[Gray Fox]

http://i.makeagif.com/media/6-19-2015/Ym48pp.gif

[Magic]

Corbyn has lost his no confidence vote. 172 to 40.

Hang in there, Jezza. You're still in a position of strength.

That result. :D

Refusing to resign as well. :drool:

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

This will be even better when the membership elects him again.

[Lewis]

The babies at the Huffington Post say 'Hi TTH' is not an acceptable biography, so that's the end of that.

[Gray Fox]

As you didn't get the result you wanted, start a petition.

[7om]

Stop playing around, dickhead. We need a more outreaching mouthpiece and you've got a chance to be it. Don't let this slip away.

[elth]

Come back Nick Clegg, all is forgiven.

[Lee]

Boris says no early election if he becomes leader. That should be enough to get MPs onside. If he's in the final two he'll piss it with the members. Crosby at work nice and quicky. I hope he isn't too tired when he develops his Brexit plan.

[elth]

In all seriousness, what do those 170 Labour MPs do when Corbyn's re-elected by the members?

[Disco]

Form a different party.

[elth]

Really?

[Disco]

Really.

[Lee]

In all seriousness, what do those 170 Labour MPs do when Corbyn's re-elected by the members?

They'll have to consider formally splitting. Or if they're pro-EU entering into a pact with the Lib Dems.

Corbyn's Momentum group (he might as well just start a new party, for fuck's sake) is threatening widespread deselection campaigns starting this week which would fuck the party up forever.

[Disco]

They could straight up join other parties but I wouldn't think more than a few would go for that.

[elth]

That's the point - 80% of the party's MPs oppose Corbyn, presumably all their offices do, and they need all of the Labour branding, all of the electoral funding, fundraising apparatus, mailing lists and so on and so on, all of the *party machinery* that actually wins elections.

If they leave Labour, they're finished.

Corbyn's the insurgency and he's going to walk away with the party? I repeat - really?

[7om]

So if the majority of Labour's MPs defected / started a new party would that effectively create a new opposition?

[Boydy]

They'll have to consider formally splitting. Or if they're pro-EU entering into a pact with the Lib Dems.

Corbyn's Momentum group (he might as well just start a new party, for fuck's sake) is threatening widespread deselection campaigns starting this week which would fuck the party up forever.

Len McCluskey backs deselection campaigns as well.

Let's fucking do it. I want rid of all the wanker PPE Spad careerists with safe seats. Replace them with MPs actually from the areas they represent and we'll see the more representative Labour party they say they actually want.

[Disco]

That's the point - 80% of the party's MPs oppose Corbyn, presumably all their offices do, and they need all of the Labour branding, all of the electoral funding, fundraising apparatus, mailing lists and so on and so on, all of the *party machinery* that actually wins elections.

If they leave Labour, they're finished.

Not unless a lot of it goes with them, especially if it's a choice between most of the party and the discredited rump. All the other stuff flows from funding and that tends to follow the seats, they'll take a hit but there comes a point where that is preferable.

[Lewis]

They haven't got the balls to leave the party, because half of them would become irrevelant and the other half would get de-selected, so their best bet is cause some more aggro, wait for a bit, and then come to some agreement with Jezza that gives the rest of them greater influence. He could remain as leader to keep the membership onside, but John McDonnell would have to be liquidated.

The leading wankers could probably have had that sort of arrangement in the first place had they not spat the collective dummy. Twats.

[elth]

Disco - the unions won't come with. The members mostly won't come with. They're not going to keep the offices, the staff, the advisors and the hangers on without any funding. They'll keep their electoral offices I suppose but they'll have nothing else.

I'm not saying I have any alternative, but you're basically saying they're going to end their careers because they think Corbyn's a knob end.

[Gray Fox]

Corbyn will piss the leadership vote but he's going to have to find about 20 different disguises to fill up the rest of his cabinet. It's going to get a lot, lot worse before it gets better.

[Spikey M]

As much as Farages trolling today was top stuff, he really is a thundercunt.

[elth]

John Smith told me there would be no need for an ejector seat. If a leader lost a no confidence vote they would resign. You cannot survive. So we never thought it was necessary.

Labour MPs represent millions of Labour voters, not a few hundred thousand members, which is why the electoral college was originally founded to represent Labour members, MPs and the unions.

It was a huge folly to drop this. New Labour was obsessed with one member one vote and you can say now that they perhaps have reaped what they sowed. The people around Corbyn who are advising him actively want to create a crisis. That’s part of their world view. They would be quite happy to have a small rump party under the name Momentum socialists of 15 or so MPs. That would suit them just fine.

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-64231-this-is-fine-dog-fire-comic-Im-N7mp.png

[Disco]

Oh it wouldn't be sensible, but these are politicians.

[Lee]

Len McCluskey backs deselection campaigns as well.

Let's fucking do it. I want rid of all the wanker PPE Spad careerists with safe seats. Replace them with MPs actually from the areas they represent and we'll see the more representative Labour party they say they actually want.

Not from "Momentum" you won't. It's made up of Tarquins and Tamaras who have never spoken to a working class person in their lives. They're all cunts and they're the ones who will get the seats.

What's the point in a Labour Party which exists only as a pressure group? These wankers are destroying it. They need to find themselves a sensible centrist leader now. No party is ever going to win an election in this country on a wholly left (or right) wing agenda again. If the party leadership just wants votes from the membership then it is competely fucked.

[Lee]

So if the majority of Labour's MPs defected / started a new party would that effectively create a new opposition?

Apparently Corbyn has already has a chat about this with Bercow, obviously still wanting to be the main opposition party come what may. He's off his tits.

[elth]

Isn't a "more representative" Labour party basically UKIP.

[GS]

I have to say, Corbyn's behaviour at this stage is genuinely disgraceful. This is the party of Keir Hardie, Clement Attlee and Nye Bevan - and he's treating it as acceptable collateral damage to progress "the revolution".

Irrespective of policy disagreement, it's a disgrace. A genuine disgrace.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Another argument in favour of an early election is that it would end Labour.

[Lewis]

It's also the party of Tony Blair and Ed Miliband. Fuck them.

[Byron]

https://gyazo.com/f0bc4b9d983a19e96792e01f23c32dd1.png

:cool:

[Magic]

That's the point - 80% of the party's MPs oppose Corbyn, presumably all their offices do, and they need all of the Labour branding, all of the electoral funding, fundraising apparatus, mailing lists and so on and so on, all of the *party machinery* that actually wins elections.

If they leave Labour, they're finished.

Corbyn's the insurgency and he's going to walk away with the party? I repeat - really?

They'd probably take it all with them, especially the funding. Corbyn and his new party could go back to meeting in underground train stations and organising strikes down the local warehouses.

[GS]

Union funding is a huge foundation of Labour's fundraising efforts. If union financial support wasn't there, they'd find it difficult. That said, it would be preferable to the current operation where they are in genuine of danger of getting wiped.

Angela Eagle is apparently going to stand against Corbyn. It changes every half hour, so they'll probably be back to Watson again soon. It should be Watson. Eagle is hopeless, and will probably lose. If Corbyn wins another leadership ballot, they've surely nowhere to go beyond a formal split.

What a fucking shambles.

[Byron]

Watson is a bit left-field, but he'd at least give the Tories reason to pause.

[Lee]

Watson is fucking useless too. He won't get near to winning an election if one is announced. At least he'd call Boris a paedo in the debates, I suppose.

[GS]

He won't, but you need someone to beat Corbyn in a straight fight. Once he's booted out, change the rules for nominating / electing the leader (if you fucking well can) and be done with this. They need to get someone who can beat Corbyn for now - the rest comes later.

[Raoul Duke]

Someone just posted a theory which sounds a bit mad, but then everything else if fucking mental right now:

David Miliband to take Jo Cox's seat and run as party leader :sherlock:

[niko_cee]

I'm sure someone suggested that on here a few days ago.

[GS]

It's far from mad - if anything, it's eminently probable.

However, their first step needs to be overthrowing Corbyn and getting the voting system changed. This leader isn't the one who will fight the next election.

[Lewis]

Sadiq Khan would have been the best bet to keep the London-based wanker activists on side, so lol at his timing.

[Lee]

The suggestion is that Ed Balls is favoured for Jo Cox's seat. Miliband is quite happy raking it in over the Atlantic.

[Boydy]

Tony Blair to come back for Jo Cox's seat.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Surely Momentum will have plans for that seat.

A Tony Blair return would be great, at this point we're so fucked I just want maximum entertainment really.

[GS]

I was speculating on a Boris leadership team earlier. I got as far as Gove at the foreign office, Leadsom as chancellor and probably keeping Theresa May at the home office. Then you've got top, top lads like David Davis to get involved in the Brexit negotiations at the foreign office.

[Shindig]

To be fair Farage has been working towards pulling off Brexit for a while and it's not yet been a week since he got the result of his dreams. I'll allow him a little smugness.

Not when that smugness is his entire persona. And he doesn't have to back on of this up, as his party are not electable. "Let's not behave like children... losers." Scotland's going to be key to all of this, aren't they? If we don't get the right kind of EU deals, they piss off and I'm not sure whether we can use them as a negotiator of some kind when they're cap in hand.

What we need is that mad Cox killer to unveil he has 200 mates who all have guns, targets and voted Leave. And a time machine.

[GS]

Scotland aren't in a position to secede. You can just lol at the state of their financial forecasts for the last referendum ("where's the oil money, Alex, mate? EH?!"), and then campaign on staying in the UK single market with the pound in your pocket.

[Shindig]

Oh, yeah. Knew I left something out. Although I'd love to see what Wales' response would've been if Remain won.

[GS]

http://www.politico.eu/article/dont-talk-to-brits-juncker-tells-commission/

He's fucking seething, isn't he. It's worth the market turmoil, really. :harold:

[Lewis]

Meanwhile, the European External Action Service published a really badly-written 'Global Strategy' document today. The theme is that 'soft power is not enough'. It concludes that 'Member states will remain sovereign in their defence decisions', but adds that 'nationally-orientated defence programmes are insufficient to address capability shortfalls'. Well that depends what you want the capability to do. We're alright, but if you're after the sort of capabilities a continent-wide union might need...

[phonics]

747876267849097217

The bloke can't even depose someone correctly. Coward.

[Lee]

Forget Burnham, how much of a cunt do you need to be to accept a promotion before resigning with 24 hours?

[Magic]

Forget Burnham, how much of a cunt do you need to be to accept a promotion before resigning with 24 hours?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/28/new-south-yorkshire-police-chief-hillsborough-dawn-copley-offers-resign-over-conduct

:harold:

[niko_cee]

Scotland aren't in a position to secede. You can just lol at the state of their financial forecasts for the last referendum ("where's the oil money, Alex, mate? EH?!"), and then campaign on staying in the UK single market with the pound in your pocket.

Plus, you know, when they vote 52-48 to leave we'll just tell them to fuck off because they made the wrong choice. That's how these things work, isn't it?

Or, better still, the 48% (presumably the borders) will then secede from the newly formed country and return to a union with England (whatever is left of the UK). But then some people in that region won't be happy . . .

Are they even allowed another referendum or will that Westminster have to sanction it?

[phonics]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/28/new-south-yorkshire-police-chief-hillsborough-dawn-copley-offers-resign-over-conduct

:harold:

Oh that's nothing in comparison to Oakland

"Four police chiefs in 10 days. 28 police officers with allegations involving a prostitute. Five police departments ensnared in controversy. Two suicides. And one teenage girl."

Give it a Google, it's one of the most depressing things I've read. It reads like it's straight out of a thriller novel.

[Magic]

Oh that's nothing in comparison to Oakland

"Four police chiefs in 10 days. 28 police officers with allegations involving a prostitute. Five police departments ensnared in controversy. Two suicides. And one teenage girl."

Give it a Google, it's one of the most depressing things I've read. It reads like it's straight out of a thriller novel.

I really should have forecasted you trumping me with some anti-American narrative.

[phonics]

I really should have forecasted you trumping me with some anti-American narrative.

"Take my narrative back"

[Magic]

I was going to use rhetoric. There's a word I'm looking for but basically I'm a jumped up spastic and can't think of it/don't know it.

[phonics]

I was going to use rhetoric. There's a word I'm looking for but basically I'm a jumped up spastic and can't think of it/don't know it.

You could have gone bigger on TRUMPing while you were at it.

#LosingHisTouch

[GS]

Plus, you know, when they vote 52-48 to leave we'll just tell them to fuck off because they made the wrong choice. That's how these things work, isn't it?

Or, better still, the 48% (presumably the borders) will then secede from the newly formed country and return to a union with England (whatever is left of the UK). But then some people in that region won't be happy . . .

Are they even allowed another referendum or will that Westminster have to sanction it?

You could also troll the Scots very happily by suggesting that if places like Shetland and Orkney vote to stay in the UK, then their local authorities should seek immediate discussions with Westminster to keep them in the UK. It would, after all, be democratically unacceptable for the Shetlands or the Orkneys to be dragged out of the UK by the mainland.

I'm not even joking about that either. Given Shetland has lots of oil, you'd just lol them into a financial black hole before they've even started the campaign.

[GS]

Forget Burnham, how much of a cunt do you need to be to accept a promotion before resigning with 24 hours?

Stand down, lads. Rumours of Andy Burnham discovering he has a spine are premature.

747880452711653376

[Lee]

He's a proper cunt. :D

[GS]

It's some effort, this.

There are a load of pro-Remain types protesting outside parliament, and they've got some quite unpleasant placards and are chanting unpleasant things about politicians on the leave side. The lads on the left (Alastair Campbell, take a bow) are encouraging it and saying how great it is.

If it was people who'd voted leave, and they were calling people "cunts", it would be all over the news as evidence of BROKEN BRITAIN and how the genie of hatred and intolerance is out now etc. etc.

I'd take three years of recession simply to smug it out forevermore over "Brexit". Fuck them.

[phonics]

It's some effort, this.

There are a load of pro-Remain types protesting outside parliament, and they've got some quite unpleasant placards and are chanting unpleasant things about politicians on the leave side. The lads on the left (Alastair Campbell, take a bow) are encouraging it and saying how great it is.

If it was people who'd voted leave, and they were calling people "cunts", it would be all over the news as evidence of BROKEN BRITAIN and how the genie of hatred and intolerance is out now etc. etc.

I'd take three years of recession simply to smug it out forevermore over "Brexit". Fuck them.

Oh shut up you pleb. Are we really at the 'They're being mean to me!' point?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I saw a tweet earlier which posited that had David Miliband not BOTTLED resigning with James Purnell in 2008, none of this would have happened.

History, eh.

[Lee]

I saw a tweet earlier which posited that had David Miliband not BOTTLED resigning with James Purnell in 2008, none of this would have happened.

History, eh.

I saw one saying all this was because Farage didn't die in his plane crash on polling day in 2010.

[GS]

Oh shut up you pleb. Are we really at the 'They're being mean to me!' point?

I'm lolling at the hypocrisy and enjoying the SEETHING.


I saw a tweet earlier which posited that had David Miliband not BOTTLED resigning with James Purnell in 2008, none of this would have happened.

History, eh.

Miliband would still have been taken out in 2010, and you'd have ended up with coalition. He might have made a better fist of it by preventing a Tory majority in 2015, but there's any number of 'flapping of a butterfly's wings' that have led to this. It's basically a perfect storm.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Alastair Campbell's part in this is quite something. I saw him on the TV a few days ago bemoaning how low the level of public political discourse had stooped.

[phonics]

Meanwhile, Ed Balls of Ed Balls Day fame stirs

747872989924974592

[GS]

Glenys and Neil Kinnock have creamed millions out of the EU since the Lord Kinnock got smashed by Major in 1992.

They've basically had their pension cut off, so we should probably spare a moment or two to reflect on how ghastly that must be for the sponging pair of cunts.

[GS]

ITV have Angela Eagle running against Corbyn, if he doesn't bottle it and finally resign tomorrow. The unions are meeting, so they may well withdraw support. Either that or they'll stand, sing the red flag and go down fighting by sending the peasantry in and retreating behind the lines.

[Lewis]

Alastair Campbell's part in this is quite something. I saw him on the TV a few days ago bemoaning how low the level of public political discourse had stooped.

The fact that he is still treated with any sort of respect should be the starting point for the 'How did this happen?' studies.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I thought Labour had reached the fullest extent of their farce, but no: they've approached George Galloway to rejoin the party.

[GS]

They'll need a new foreign secretary after they win the next election, I suppose.

[Shindig]

Get Chinny's wife to do it. He's no longer the breadwinner.

[niko_cee]

I can't quite work out if the title of Claude's little edict is meant to be self-deprecating humour or not.

[phonics]

Decided to check my email before going to bed. What do I find in my inbox?

http://imgur.com/ajqq1mL.png

From my own mother who told me to suck it up because 'we don't always get what we want in Politics' when I voted for Cleggers and he owned me on the Tuition Fees business. (She definitely voted Tory that time)

[Jimmy Floyd]

People clearly don't understand how democracy works. They're demonstrably claiming that their vote should count for more than the votes of other people.