The EU Referendum thread - sponsored by Harold's YouTube videos

[Lewis]

The Shadow Cabinet don't have any bollocks and/or are equally as mental. That's why they're in the Shadow Cabinet and not stinking up the back benches.

[Lewis]

The new avatar just makes these posts read like press releases from the bunker.

[7om]

Tom Watson to go on a murder-suicide rampage to end this before morning.

[Lewis]

Comrade Benn stands accused of sabotaging the municipal water supply, in collaboration with the agents of imperialism, by way of urinary sedition. He has been stripped of all offices and party responsibilities and will stand trial in the coming days.

[GS]

The likes of McDonnell, Abbott, Nandy etc. will sit it out because they still think the great socialist revolution is just around the corner. The other ones might do something if the likes of Watson and Burnham, when he's taking a break from patronising his mates, call the troops out.

[Lee]

McDonnell will stay quiet only so he can take the leadership himself. Unfortunately, given the make up of the membership, he'd piss it against anybody seen as even vaguely Blairite. Defect to the Lib Dems, lads. Blow the fucking thing up.

[7om]

:rasta:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/WZl2udKDG3g

[Gray Fox]

:rasta:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/WZl2udKDG3g

"The young wanted to be part of Europe!"

746700869656256512

Someone should have told them that. :D

[elth]

They just wanted a sleep in and an afternoon on the couch more #stereotypes

[niko_cee]

What would be the logic behind Boris calling an election soon after becoming leader? Some kind of ploy to avoid having to actually leave (I think realistically a section of leave probably wanted a narrow remain win to form the basis of a reform agenda going forward without having to blow the thing up) - or does he see himself carrying all those Labour out votes in a general election and earning an unfathomable majority? Would seem a much too big a risk to take, trusting the British electorate to not massively piss on your chips and all (see Dave).

[Shindig]

Yes, he doesn't want to be the guy that took us out of Europe. You know when I said they campaigned without a plan? They thought Cameron would be around the pencil it, if Remain didn't win out. I see that second referendum coming.

[niko_cee]

I'm not sure that is particularly fair, didn't they say it was going to take quite some time to extricate the country from the EU before the vote? I'm not sure, in reality, what kind of plan you could come up with. A cooling off period is probably a good idea with all the seethe going around.

Ironically whenever these 'negotiations' do happen it'd be much better to have them done by civil servants on both sides, with politicians being nowhere near them. How's about that for anti-democratic? All Juncker cares about is his solid gold house, he couldn't give a flying fuck if the German automotive industry loses one of its biggest customers. All Hollande cares about is staving off Le Pen and perpetuating his own gilded existence. The Germans are going to be conflicted by the sensible choice of trying to maintain good trading relations and the political choice of cowing to the French to keep the project on track. From the Leave perspective the drawbridges are not going to be pulled up on immigration, be it from the EU or elsewhere. Apart from the looming economic Armageddon I don't really see why the federalists don't see this as a good thing - it has removed the biggest obstruction to full integration within the EU. There isn't another country which will be able to realistically oppose complete Franco-Prussian dominion of the EU now and the UK was never going to sign up to it so this would have had to have happened at some point (maybe that's when the vote should have been though).

[Jimmy Floyd]

I reckon they'll negotiate a fudge settlement with our Teutonic overlords which will itself be put to another referendum and win, because enough already.

The general election has to be called in the same way that Brown (should have) called one in 2007, because as a new PM, especially in this situation, you want the next election to be as far away as possible.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Rumours that Milne and McDonnell have turned on Corbyn.

SPLITTERS!

[Cord]

Also, you'd imagine the Tories would piss any upcoming election. They've just given 52% of the electorate what they want, Labour are a shambles, UKIP have achieved their purpose (though I suppose they will now shift to carry on as some sort of general protest vote party), Scotland is only going to get more SNP (or Conservative) and the Lib Dems may well still be on the naughty step and are led by a god-bothering dweeb.

The only result I could see would be a bigger conservative majority.

[Lee]

Also, you'd imagine the Tories would piss any upcoming election. They've just given 52% of the electorate what they want, Labour are a shambles, UKIP have achieved their purpose (though I suppose they will now shift to carry on as some sort of general protest vote party), Scotland is only going to get more SNP (or Conservative) and the Lib Dems may well still be on the naughty step and are led by a god-bothering dweeb.

The only result I could see would be a bigger conservative majority.

They haven't given Leave voters what they want yet as Article 50 hasn't been triggered. I could well imagine Johnson, who I don't think cares about leaving the EU, going to the country without having triggered it and proposing a Norway style deal to the electorate. UKIP will campaign on that not being anything like enough as we'd keep freedom of movement. The Lib Dems are going for the definitely stay in option. And we don't know about Labour yet until they have a proper leader. It's okay Benn saying a Labour government (lol) won't overturn the result but he has also ruled himself out of the leadership so it isn't really any of his business.

I reckon the mainstream parties are desperate to find a way not to leave. They'll try all kinds of shit.

"The vote was close, we have to compromise."

" The numbers look bad, it's not in our interests to leave now."

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a revival of "FIVE ECONOMIC TESTS!"

I'm not really sure what would happen. All depends on what Labour do. UKIP might well hoover up in the north. The Lib Dems win metropolitan seats. Will the white working class turn out again to enforce their will? It's all a glorious mess. :drool:

[GS]

747001309988007936

[Lee]

747001309988007936

He refused to share a platform with Cameron, deliberately did not use Remain lines whilst campaigning, deferred urgent meetings about strategy. He must have voted Leave.

How is your confidence that we will leave, GS?

Looks to me like the lot of them are desperate not to trigger article 50. The Tories will probably go for the Norway option at best which will anger many.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I love the idea of Seumas Milne crashing the economy.

I reckon they will get a negotiation that honours the result of this referendum but also keeps some EU goodies. Leave only won because it had Boris and Gove behind it. If Tories and Labour both campaign for a Yes vote on the new settlement, on the basis it provides stability, it will win. Nigel can't win a national campaign on his own. He's too shit.

That should also sort the jocks out.

[GS]

He refused to share a platform with Cameron, deliberately did not use Remain lines whilst campaigning, deferred urgent meetings about strategy. He must have voted Leave.

How is your confidence that we will leave, GS?

Looks to me like the lot of them are desperate not to trigger article 50. The Tories will probably go for the Norway option at best which will anger many.

It's very hard to know. Single market access means acceptance of EU rules (i.e. loss of sovereignty) and freedom of movement, the latter of which would have been effectively rejected by the referendum result. It means you can't have single access, because it doesn't address the fundamental issues which drove a leave vote.

It depends on the deal that comes back. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a second referendum, frankly.

[GS]

I'm watching the Sunday Politics at the minute on delay and Tony Blair sounds like he could well burst into tears at any moment.

[GS]

Gloria de Piero has quit. Three down.

:drool:

[Max Power]

I'm watching the Sunday Politics at the minute on delay and Tony Blair sounds like he could well burst into tears at any moment.

He should be eyeing a comeback tbh the way things are going.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Emily Thornberry saying that Cameron should have 'stepped aside' and let Corbyn lead the Remain campaign.

What?

[GS]

He should be eyeing a comeback tbh the way things are going.

Chilcot is out in a week and a half, so that'll be him finished.

[GS]

Emily Thornberry saying that Cameron should have 'stepped aside' and let Corbyn lead the Remain campaign.

What?

:D

Fucking mental.

[Lee]

Ian Murray gone. :drool:

[elth]

Rumour has it Corbyn doesn't have enough MPs who support him to actually fill his shadow cabinet.

What glorious times for Labour.

[GS]

This was always coming, to be fair. He was never, ever good enough to lead the party.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Ian Murray gone. :drool:

Literally never heard of Ian Murray. Blairite traitors are now inventing resignations to undermine the Dear Leader.

[GS]

Literally never heard of Ian Murray. Blairite traitors are now inventing resignations to undermine the Dear Leader.

He's their only Scottish MP, so it means they can't even have a shadow Scottish secretary from Scotland.

[GS]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Lunatic.

[Lee]

Fucking hell. :drool:

Meanwhile Farage is at home wanking himself silly. A referendum victory with the mainstream polticians doing everything possible not to exercise the will of the people is his ideal scenario.

A Tory leadership candidate now also has the opportunity to come out and say "No election, I'll invoke article 50 immediately".

I find it hard to see that we'll not have an election within 12 months though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Constitutionally, either Parliament itself or the haggis edition would be quite within their rights to veto Brexit. It would just play, er, not that well in the country.

[Shindig]

Chilcot is out in a week and a half, so that'll be him finished.

"Tony Blair? No, I'm Toby ... Rialb."

[GS]

Constitutionally, either Parliament itself or the haggis edition would be quite within their rights to veto Brexit. It would just play, er, not that well in the country.

They could, but you'd be sparking a constitutional crisis the like of which we haven't seen since 1936. It doesn't really bear thinking about the outcry, to be honest. She may do it to create a deliberate sense of division between the Scots and everybody else. The political version of Jose Mourinho's SIEGE MENTALITY.

[Bartholomert]

Isn't Parliament in theory the highest law of the land? They can pretty much do whatever they want if I'm not mistaken?

Also I thought this was pretty good:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE

[Lewis]

It would be worth staying in the European Union just to veto Scottish membership.

[Shindig]

AHAHAHAHAHHAHA!

https://www.facebook.com/Oliver.Healey.English.Democrats/

[Davgooner]

I wonder if the delay until October is more about betting on some kind of major economic downturn which could set the scene for, and turn public opinion in favour of a veto or maybe a second referendum.

[GS]

I wonder if the delay until October is more about betting on some kind of major economic downturn which could set the scene for, and turn public opinion in favour of a veto or maybe a second referendum.

It might well be.

The more this goes on, the more you have to think that Cameron was really quite irresponsible - borderline reckless - in chucking it so soon after the result. It was a time of major constitutional crisis, and it required strong and clear leadership. Osborne has disappeared, so we have an invisible, lame duck government, an opposition in disarray and nationalist parties entering the vacuum to leverage the result to advocate further constitutional change.

What a fucking nightmare.

[Shindig]

Cameron's position was untenable after this. People were immediate going to social media and calling him the man that broke up two unions. I mean, he's not gone yet but his credibility is shot either way.

[Chinny Hill]

Isn't Parliament in theory the highest law of the land? They can pretty much do whatever they want if I'm not mistaken?

Also I thought this was pretty good:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE

Britain NEVER joined a Europen Union. They joined a Common Market

[GS]

His position was untenable in the medium to long term certainly, and especially for the negotiations, but you're the fucking Prime Minster. Dealing with difficult shit is your job description. We're looking at both major parties having no leadership over the summer, whilst the markets will inevitably shit themselves over the uncertainty. It needed strong, clear, direct leadership in the immediate short-term to steady the ship. I expected a short-term shock and some constitutional 'convulsion', but it's being exacerbated significantly by reckless disregard on the part of the political class.

[Lewis]

There is a Question Time special on at half six tonight. Dominic Raab (out), Anna Soubry (seething), Alex Salmond (national treasure), Diane Abbott (lol), Paul Nuttall (Chinny), and Giles Fraser (trendy vicar). Football is on soz lads.

[Gray Fox]

Lucy Powell and Lillian Greenwood gone now too.

Andy Burnham is refusing to take part in it and has seemingly given Corbyn his backing.

[Lee]

I wonder if the delay until October is more about betting on some kind of major economic downturn which could set the scene for, and turn public opinion in favour of a veto or maybe a second referendum.

I think it's more not having a clue what to do. My guess is that there will be a clamour for an election which will be held. The election outcome will be seen to supercede (by parliament) the referendum outcome. We won't leave.

From what I've read we are unlikely to see a significant economic impact until article 50 is invoked. Some companies are taking soundings on getting the fuck out of London though, which will no doubt form part of the basis of a "we can't leave now our prosperity is threatened" argument.

I want us to Remain of course, but this whole thing shows us what shithouses our politicians are. They don't want to leave.

[Lee]

Lucy Powell and Lillian Greenwood gone now too.

Andy Burnham is refusing to take part in it and has seemingly given Corbyn his backing.

Someone sees himself as a "unity candidate".

[GS]

Kerry McCarthy has resigned. She's a strong Corbyn supporter, so even the ideologues are turning. :drool:

[Lewis]

Someone sees himself as a "unity candidate".

Didn't we all lol at him accepting a Shadow Cabinet role with exactly this in mind?

[Gray Fox]

Well Labour seem to be gearing themselves up to get a fixed leader in place for an election. They must be expecting it soon.

Kerry McCarthy gone now.

[GS]

There is a Question Time special on at half six tonight. Dominic Raab (out), Anna Soubry (seething), Alex Salmond (national treasure), Diane Abbott (lol), Paul Nuttall (Chinny), and Giles Fraser (trendy vicar). Football is on soz lads.

They've had to move it forward to be a live show because events are moving so quickly. It's a shame the panel is so shit.


Lucy Powell and Lillian Greenwood gone now too.

Andy Burnham is refusing to take part in it and has seemingly given Corbyn his backing.

Burnham is an absolute charlatan. He literally doesn't have a firm opinion about anything other than 'Labour Party = Good'.


I think it's more not having a clue what to do. My guess is that there will be a clamour for an election which will be held. The election outcome will be seen to supercede (by parliament) the referendum outcome. We won't leave.

From what I've read we are unlikely to see a significant economic impact until article 50 is invoked. Some companies are taking soundings on getting the fuck out of London though, which will no doubt form part of the basis of a "we can't leave now our prosperity is threatened" argument.

I want us to Remain of course, but this whole thing shows us what shithouses our politicians are. They don't want to leave.

I can see that being an eminently realistic outcome of all of this.

The Hun are already briefing that we may wish to reconsider leaving. This lad won't have spoken to the press without Merkel's approval, such is the Teutonic way of doing things:

747035309116882944

[Byron]

My fear is that a Labour contest is held, at which point the student nutters who refuse to accept that he's been a shambles vote him back in.

[Lewis]

Tony Blair should stand in the dead woman's constituency, if only to give the conspiracy theorists something to do.

[GS]

My fear is that a Labour contest is held, at which point the student nutters who refuse to accept that he's been a shambles vote him back in.

If that happens, the 'moderates' would genuinely have no choice but to break away. He'll be at a point soon where he won't be able to fill a shadow cabinet, and there's surely no circumstances in which he won't accept the game is up. He may be an ideologue, but he's surely not this fucking stupid. The loss of allies in the shadow cabinet is when it starts to get into very difficult water for him.

[GS]

Tony Blair should stand in the dead woman's constituency, if only to give the conspiracy theorists something to do.

I reckon that's going to be the lesser-spotted David Miliband - the humanitarian and charitable worker, taking hundreds of thousands out of a charity's bank account as salary since he left Westminster in a sulk.

[Lewis]

Frank Field is on Sky welcoming the shitty pound, comparing the 'experts' to appeasers, and dismissing the SNP on the basis that 'England props up the Scottish economy'. If you're after a new leader, Labour...

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

My fear is that a Labour contest is held, at which point the student nutters who refuse to accept that he's been a shambles vote him back in.

Some people still genuinely see him as a potential Prime Minister.

[GS]

Seema Malhotra, key McDonnell supporter and shadow chief secretary to the treasury, has resigned too.

Et tu, John?

Fucking hell, what scenes we have.

[Byron]

The Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary, whoever that is, is said to be 'considering his position'

[GS]

747047735195471872

[Lewis]

Michael Heseltine is spewing. That map on his wall is probably the sewers under Downing Street.

[Lee]

This is fucking amazing. :drool:

[Bartholomert]

...I don't get it :(

[Yevrah]

This is an absolute mess, isn't it?

No way it can rumble on until fucking October in this state.

[7om]

If I was Corbyn I'd start shagging Abbott again to at least consolidate some support.

[Lee]

This is an absolute mess, isn't it?

No way it can rumble on until fucking October in this state.

It will calm down. The two major parties will have leadership contests and there will be a period over the winter for all parties to come up with proper plans for our relationship with Europe, whether in or out. Then we can have a General Election in May and lance this fucking boil once and for all.

Cameron resigning without invoking article 50 was an ingenious and spiteful act of sabotage.

[Byron]

...I don't get it :(

Apologies if it sounds patronising but the official Opposition get a Shadow Cabinet, which would be the equivalent of the Republicans having Shadow Chief of Staff to contest their equivalents decisions.

Mass resignations from the Shadow Cabinet basically destroy a leader's power base because these are people who would be trusted with important posts should the opoosition win an election and they are normally pretty loyal to their leader.

[Yevrah]

It will calm down. The two major parties will have leadership contests and there will be a period over the winter for all parties to come up with proper plans for our relationship with Europe, whether in or out. Then we can have a General Election in May and lance this fucking boil once and for all.

Cameron resigning without invoking article 50 was an ingenious and spiteful act of sabotage.

I didn't see it at the time, but it's become clear over the last 24 hours that you're absolutely right. Given what his aims were and where we've ended up, is there an argument to say he's one of the most disastrous PM's ever?

As for waiting until May 2017 to get a mandated government, surely having to wait that long would put us in a limbo nightmare.

[Lee]

I didn't see it at the time, but it's become clear over the last 24 hours that you're absolutely right. Given what his aims were and where we've ended up, is there an argument to say he's one of the most disastrous PM's ever?

As for waiting until May 2017 to get a mandated government, surely having to wait that long would put us in a limbo nightmare.

He may well be the worst since Eden. Whatever your views on the referndum outcome history will look dimly on a man who lost a referendum on Europe, possible leading to the break up of the UK.

People voted for a Conservative government last year. They will still have that. There's no constitutional necessity to hold an election before 2020.

It is clear that the parties need time to set out plans for Europe anyway, before putting their, plans to the electorate. None of them seem to have spent a second planning for the possibility that people would vote to leave the EU.

[Shindig]

I didn't see it at the time, but it's become clear over the last 24 hours that you're absolutely right. Given what his aims were and where we've ended up, is there an argument to say he's one of the most disastrous PM's ever?

As for waiting until May 2017 to get a mandated government, surely having to wait that long would put us in a limbo nightmare.

I don't see any of the options being great, though. Unless Boris knocks it out of the park.

[Chinny Hill]

What have we learned today from the Labour Party?
Mostly that no one has ever heard of anyone in the Shadow Cabinet.

[Gray Fox]

Jeremy Corbyn right now.

http://i.makeagif.com/media/6-19-2015/Ym48pp.gif

[Bartholomert]

When copy-pastas deliver:




Were you a Remain campaigner? Are you sore about the referendum result? Check out these 10 top self-comforting strategies.

1.) Call every white person who voted Leave a "racist", ignoring the fact that Europeans are also white. Make sure you ignore and marginalise ethnic minority leave voters.

2.) Claim that the (huge) turnout wasn't high enough. 72%? It should have been at least 75%! 80%? It should have been 85%! Make sure to keep moving the goalposts.

3.) Make a stupid e-petition demanding another referendum, just like the socialists did when Labour lost last year. We need to keep having referendums until we get the "right" result.

4.) Get over-excited about the economy, even if the impact has been pretty boring and mundane. Pretend that your 2:2 in English Literature makes you an expert on currency markets.

5.) Attack the very idea of Democracy, because it's only a good thing when it goes the way you want it to. Working class voters don't know what's good for them, but middle class liberals definitely do.

6.) Share memes bashing Brexit, ignoring the unwelcome and uncomfortable realisation that you are in the minority of public opinion.

7.) Boldly claim that Scotland will leave the UK, forgetting that A) they can't afford to B) the EU can't afford to take them C) 1.6m remain votes don't cancel out 2m NO votes.

8.) Make fun of Boris Johnson while sweating slightly and really hoping he doesn't become Prime Minister.

9.) Learn absolutely nothing from the campaign, blaming the result on everyone but yourself. Scaremongering and bullying are clearly the best tactics to use, there's no way they could possibly backfire.

10.) Curl up in a ball and cry yourself to sleep while listening to "Ode to Joy".

Enjoy sharing

[phonics]

So it turns out that re-referendum that you blamed students for was actually created by Leavers who felt they had their movement hijacked by the establishment.

[Davgooner]

Apparently that petition was started by a Leave bro a few weeks ago.

Also, when I think about the UKIP demographic I think this lot:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1929798.main_image.jpg

[phonics]

Speaking of UKIP and giant lols

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl405gHWAAExd3Y?format=pjpg&name=large

[GS]

He may well be the worst since Eden. Whatever your views on the referndum outcome history will look dimly on a man who lost a referendum on Europe, possible leading to the break up of the UK.

People voted for a Conservative government last year. They will still have that. There's no constitutional necessity to hold an election before 2020.

It is clear that the parties need time to set out plans for Europe anyway, before putting their, plans to the electorate. None of them seem to have spent a second planning for the possibility that people would vote to leave the EU.

It's a little early to make a judgement on Cameron's legacy, but it's becoming clearer that his playbook centred entirely around divide and conquer; that is, divide the electorate and scrape enough on your side.

It's becoming clearer by the hour that he should never have resigned with such rapidity. People keep asking for a 'plan', but Cameron still holds the power in the executive branch and literally nothing can happen until he's replaced.

I agree we don't need another election by the way. No doubt the media will CLAMBER for one because they seem to think a vote for a party is the same as voting for a Prime Minister, which we don't do. I wouldn't bother holding another referendum if I was the new Tory leader, because it's just ANOTHER fucking nightmare of uncertainty to deal with.

Your last point is also correct. It seems that nobody has made the necessary contingency planning for this outcome. It's grossly irresponsible, and people need to be held to account for it.

[Bartholomert]

Apparently that petition was started by a Leave bro a few weeks ago.

Also, when I think about the UKIP demographic I think this lot:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1929798.main_image.jpg

I feel like 'that lot' are really decent humans. They have jobs, pay their taxes, generally speaking create a stable family environment for their children, are involved in their childrens lives, don't commit crime, etc. What's so wrong with that, shouldn't that be an inspirational ideal?

[GS]

Vernon Coaker has chucked it as well, with a plan to continue the resignations at all levels into tomorrow.

Jez We Can is refusing to be taken alive, and is undertaking the trench warfare equivalent of fixing a bayonet to his rifle for the final charge over the top in the face of the enemy's advance. He's planning to fill open shadow cabinet positions this evening. They're also planning to flood the airwaves with supportive figures from "the movement", including MPs, council leaders, what's left of the shadow cabinet and, yes, the unions.

[Lewis]

I saw Michael Young's The Rise of the Meritocracy flagged up the other day as being relevant, and this (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/29/comment) 2001 follow-up he wrote is interesting:


It is good sense to appoint individual people to jobs on their merit. It is the opposite when those who are judged to have merit of a particular kind harden into a new social class without room in it for others. Ability of a conventional kind, which used to be distributed between the classes more or less at random, has become much more highly concentrated by the engine of education. A social revolution has been accomplished by harnessing schools and universities to the task of sieving people according to education's narrow band of values. With an amazing battery of certificates and degrees at its disposal, education has put its seal of approval on a minority, and its seal of disapproval on the many who fail to shine from the time they are relegated to the bottom streams at the age of seven or before.

The new class has the means at hand, and largely under its control, by which it reproduces itself. The more controversial prediction and the warning followed from the historical analysis. I expected that the poor and the disadvantaged would be done down, and in fact they have been. If branded at school they are more vulnerable for later unemployment. They can easily become demoralised by being looked down on so woundingly by people who have done well for themselves. It is hard indeed in a society that makes so much of merit to be judged as having none. No underclass has ever been left as morally naked as that.

I love old stuff like that predicting the future.

[Dquincy]

Apparently that petition was started by a Leave bro a few weeks ago.

Also, when I think about the UKIP demographic I think this lot:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1929798.main_image.jpg

Really? I think of council house, jobless, ignorant, lazy folk.

[SvN]

The only UKIP voter I know is one of my wife's friend's husband. He works in a factory and is thick as pigshit.

[Davgooner]

I feel like 'that lot' are really decent humans. They have jobs, pay their taxes, generally speaking create a stable family environment for their children, are involved in their childrens lives, don't commit crime, etc. What's so wrong with that, shouldn't that be an inspirational ideal?

Calm down. There's been a lot of talk about the working class nature of this OUT vote and I'm just trying to point out that its roots are a bit higher up in society.

[GS]

The only UKIP voter I know is one of my wife's friend's husband. He works in a factory and is thick as pigshit.

He may be, but there's a worrying tendency amongst some (not all, I stress) remain voters to denigrate very leave voter as thick, racist, xenophobic, ill-informed, selfish, outright irresponsible or to affirm that they must have been duped. Or, indeed, all of the above.

17.4m voted for this outcome, but there's a subset of the political and media class who are so determined to rake the embers of the vote that they haven't quite got to the point of accepting that it's happened.

[Bartholomert]

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/746820394217259008

Only 1 percent of those that voted for Leave are unhappy with the result. In comparison, 4 percent of those that voted for Remain are happy with the result. And yet, if you were to watch the mainstream media you would think regret on behalf of Leave voters represented a fairly widely felt sentiment. What a bewildering coincidence that the networks managed to stumble across so many of these individuals...

Are you waking up yet? Do you see how deliberately the media attempt to manipulate public sentiment?

[Davgooner]

I haven't seen any of them on any news channel.

[Bartholomert]

I haven't seen any of them on any news channel.

Go back a few pages, that's all people were posting.

That feel when you're right, but everyone else has been so deeply conditioned to reject anyone who exposes the status quo that you're still the crazy one.

[GS]

It's mostly Channel 4 to be fair, but then their news anchor was having a genuine meltdown over the result so it would be very difficult to conclude that it's maintaining any impartiality in its coverage.

[SvN]

He may be, but there's a worrying tendency amongst some (not all, I stress) remain voters to denigrate very leave voter as thick, racist, xenophobic, ill-informed, selfish, outright irresponsible or to affirm that they must have been duped. Or, indeed, all of the above.

17.4m voted for this outcome, but there's a subset of the political and media class who are so determined to rake the embers of the vote that they haven't quite got to the point of accepting that it's happened.

I was on about UKIP, not the leave voters. I know a fair few leave voters. One of my friends in my main circle, my wife's parents (and probably brother). I haven't asked my own mum but I reckon she probably did too.

[GS]

I was on about UKIP, not the leave voters. I know a fair few leave voters. One of my friends in my main circle, my wife's parents (and probably brother). I haven't asked my own mum but I reckon she probably did too.

I know, I was just using it to pivot to my other point. Jimmy had UKIP right a while back - you might want to vote for them, but they're just a bit too loony for you to be comfortable doing so.

[Byron]

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten … the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over – Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession … broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was “never”. When Michael Gove went on and on about “informal negotiations” … why? why not the formal ones straight away? … he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

Cameron is a cunt, but he's played a proper Game of Thrones-esque play there.

[Lewis]

The irony is that the sort of people who dismiss their opponents as being stupid tend to be those whose main beliefs have been tested to utter destruction.

[Lee]

Charlie Falconer has gone now.

[GS]

Cameron is a cunt, but he's played a proper Game of Thrones-esque play there.

I don't think that's an accurate reading of it, unfortunately. I don't think anybody sensible anticipated that it would be an easy path after a leave vote.

There's also no way that Michael Gove didn't know exactly what he was campaigning for and what needed to be done if we voted to leave. I suspect Boris would have reconciled himself handily to either outcome, mind.

[niko_cee]

Presumably the simple answer to "Dave's masterstroke" is to put Farage (Chinny) in charge. I'm sure he won't be bothered about triggering Article 50.

[GS]

Charlie Falconer, the Lord Blair's best mate, has chucked it now as well.

[Gray Fox]

The above kind of explains in some way why no one person has come forward and offered to push the button. However, surely if the referendum is essentially annulled, the electorate who voted leave would move over to elect the only anti-EU party we currently have?

[GS]

The decision on when to push the button is held by the executive branch of government - in effect, the Prime Minister.

Cameron has resigned, so there's no-one who can 'step forward' to do it because it presumes they're going to be the next Prime Minster prior to any vote on that by the Tory membership or, indeed, any subsequent general election.

People are asking for something to happen that cannot constitutionally happen.

I suspect there will be machinations in parliament to find some way out of it. Perhaps through the EU 'caving' and giving us a deal with flexibility on freedom of movement, perhaps by Westminster riding the storm for a few months and saying there has been a 'clear change in the will of the people' (alright, Nicola Sturgeon) and holding another referendum. Whether that actually comes to pass is an entirely different question, of course. I'm maybe just being cynical in the face of the disastrous abandonment of responsibility by both the government and the opposition here.

[phonics]

Cameron has played it absolutely brilliantly. He's turned to the political opportunists around him and said, "Well fuck off lads, your mess. This was a bad idea to begin with and I already told everyone I was off before they voted me in anyway, have fun."

Meanwhile

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/06/24/101574882GoveBorisNEWS-large_trans++eo_i_u9APj8RuoebjoAHt0k9u7HhRJvuo-ZLenGRumA.jpg

So I'm not accused of bias:

747055419491745792

and

747065930505662464

What a day.

Tom Watson meanwhile, has actually been on Snapchat to give us an update on how he's doing

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-06/26/5/asset/buzzfeed-prod-web14/sub-buzz-29447-1466933406-1.jpg?resize=625:1111&no-auto

[Davgooner]

Save us Donald.

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

[Lewis]

My proposed 'Rhodesia Option' becomes more attractive by the day.

[GS]

The remain side on Question Time pinning the entire blame for leaving on immigration.

[Shindig]

My proposed 'Rhodesia Option' becomes more attractive by the day.

We're going to get Mugabe?

[Lewis]

Paul Ince, maybe.

[Shindig]

And now to Leroy Rosenior with the Budget.

"I've put some of the money somewhere. Manish?"

[Dquincy]

Question Time - Isn't it frustrating when they interrupt and talk over each other.

[7om]

I suspect there will be machinations in parliament to find some way out of it. Perhaps through the EU 'caving' and giving us a deal with flexibility on freedom of movement

Wouldn't this be the EU's worst nightmare?

By compromising aren't they opening a can of worms by showing other eurosceptic countries that they're basically capable of being manipulated?

[GS]

The remain side are pretty much just re-running the campaign. Diane Abbott is absolutely SEETHING.

Karl Turner, who I've never heard of, has now resigned as shadow attorney general. If this was a cricket team, they'd be all out now.

[niko_cee]

The EU can't be seen to be accommodating in any way (in their minds) but, at the same time, the UK holds the whip hand with the power to trigger the actual exit. No matter what Juncker and co say, out isn't out until it is set in motion. Once that is done, the power is with the EU, and they will just refuse all and any sensible exit terms to the last - to impose a punitive deal once the Treaties formally cease to be binding. It is entirely sensible for the UK to leave Article 50 dangling like the sword of Damocles. They should really seek to conclude the whole terms of the exit before formally triggering it, and then just do it as a formality once everything is reasonably in order. That is the only way a decent deal could likely be achieved, whilst also preserving the possibility to stay in were there to be some significant change in public opinion/government constitution/EU circumstances.

[Bartholomert]

Wouldn't this be the EU's worst nightmare?

By compromising aren't they opening a can of worms by showing other eurosceptic countries that they're basically capable of being manipulated?

They're a bunch of pussies incapable of making a tough decision. I would be surprised if they didn't play ball tbh.

[GS]

Wouldn't this be the EU's worst nightmare?

By compromising aren't they opening a can of worms by showing other eurosceptic countries that they're basically capable of being manipulated?

Possibly. It's an organisation that is now faced with a choice of economic or political self-immolation. Either it plays hard ball, refuses to concede the point and causes itself some significant economic difficulty or it concedes the point and encourages eurosceptic movements across the rest of the bloc.

I suspect they'll need to concede the point, because to do otherwise would shaft their politicians in domestic elections. Merkel ends up in very difficult territory if she advocates punitive measures that cause serious difficulty to the much-cited German car industry, for example. They're not going to give much of a shit that she sailed their key markets down the river to prove a political point.

There's also the consideration that if they do choose the path of economic self-immolation, it effectively acts as an organisation holding the bloc together through coercion of member states. That would surely encourage strong eurosceptic sentiment across the bloc, particularly in countries like Greece and France where people are coming more and more to have serious reservations about it.

[niko_cee]

Unfortunately logic of almost any sort ranks even lower than respect for democracy in the machinations of the EU.

[Luke Emia]

I think the Germans can see logic, probably the Dutch and the Scandi's. But the French and by the sounds of it the Poles wouldn't do and that would be what stops the Germans.

[niko_cee]

Someone told me today that the UK apparently accounts for 20% of all German manufactured car sales, globally. Can that really be true? It's mad if it is.

[GS]

The EU can't be seen to be accommodating in any way (in their minds) but, at the same time, the UK holds the whip hand with the power to trigger the actual exit. No matter what Juncker and co say, out isn't out until it is set in motion. Once that is done, the power is with the EU, and they will just refuse all and any sensible exit terms to the last - to impose a punitive deal once the Treaties formally cease to be binding. It is entirely sensible for the UK to leave Article 50 dangling like the sword of Damocles. They should really seek to conclude the whole terms of the exit before formally triggering it, and then just do it as a formality once everything is reasonably in order. That is the only way a decent deal could likely be achieved, whilst also preserving the possibility to stay in were there to be some significant change in public opinion/government constitution/EU circumstances.

This is also a pertinent point.

Given we control when to invoke Article 50, we can quite happily ignore the protestations and pleadings from various European political figureheads around the timing of that invocation.

I've read analysis which suggests the genuine economic difficulty, if it's going to come at all, will only come once Article 50 is invoked. To that end, we're far better waiting util we have everything in order to ensure that the risks of leaving, which are genuine, are fully mitigated. This may aggrieve the likes of Martin Schulz or Jean-Claude Juncker, but neither of these lads are elected. Which, when you think about, is one of the reasons why voting to leave was probably the right decision.

[GS]

I think the Germans can see logic, probably the Dutch and the Scandi's. But the French and by the sounds of it the Poles wouldn't do and that would be what stops the Germans.

To be fair to Merkel, she's meant to be fairly pragmatic about things. She'll also be under heavy pressure from her business organisations to protect their access to the UK and vice versa. The Poles will also be keen for a sensible deal, as they have 1m citizens living here and they'll want to ensure their rights are protected. The Spanish may cause difficulty over Gibraltar, but NATO lads. They'll also want to ensure there's a reasonably strong UK left, so that Scotland doesn't secede and encourage their own internal secession issues with Catalonia. A better deal for the UK shores up support for the union. We've had a bilateral treaty with the Portuguese since the days of Edward III, so hopefully they won't be complete wankers. The Irish will be on-side because of Northern Ireland too. There's plenty of allies about.

The key swing is the French. They apparently favour 'punitive' measures, but I genuinely think this is because they're still desperate to pretend they're a sovereign superpower ala 1915. The outcome of domestic elections will be important, as Hollande is about as popular as a German invader. It's one of the reasons why invoking Article 50 should probably wait until after these domestic elections, particularly in France. It prevents the issue becoming a political football in their campaigns, and thus should - you would hope - prevent the winning candidate from putting themselves in a position that is politically difficult.

Then again, they're French.


Someone told me today that the UK apparently accounts for 20% of all German manufactured car sales, globally. Can that really be true? It's mad if it is.

I don't know the exact statistics, but it's certainly a very large number. Enough that it would make a material difference to the industry in Germany, and which thus makes it a serious political problem for the Chancellor - Merkel or her successor.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Martin Schulz is a fucking wanker.

[GS]

Martin Schulz is a fucking wanker.

It is genuinely remarkable how little regard this odious little fuck has for democracy and accountability.

If Donald Tusk hadn't invoked the end of western political civilisation, I'd almost have said he was a palatable individual. It's a shame you have nutters like Schulz and Juncker in charge, because if you had people with some sense of dignity and common sense, and who weren't so overtly ideological about the merits of "the project", they wouldn't be up shit creek as much as they are.

It would still be worth leaving, of course, but you wouldn't consider pissing on their chips to be quite the triumph a leave vote must have proven to be.

[niko_cee]

Are PMQs scheduled to go ahead this week or are they on holiday now? Jez and Dave going head to head in a meeting of, potentially, the two worst, and certainly combined worst political leaders in British history. Have at it lads.

[Lee]

Schulz is elected.

[GS]

Schulz is elected.

Not directly by anybody in this country.

[Lewis]

Karl Turner was once mouthing off about some woman who my nan knows, so she bollocked him for it and he asked her not to tell anyone. I reckon Jezza could see him off with his death stare.

[Dquincy]

Are PMQs scheduled to go ahead this week or are they on holiday now? Jez and Dave going head to head in a meeting of, potentially, the two worst, and certainly combined worst political leaders in British history. Have at it lads.
How the fuck is Cameron one of the worst political leaders? He was at the helm when Britain came out of a recession and has tried to steady a country in financial crisis. He might not be Churchill, but give the bloke some credit.

[Spikey M]

He also accidentally caused Brexit to happen just so he could stop UKIP nicking votes.

[Shindig]

Yeah, he's done alright with our economy, given us a working wage whilst lowering income tax thresholds and created a fair few jobs.

[niko_cee]

Cameron's only ever been interested in one thing, which is what makes this whole affair both so baffling, and so lolworthy. Biggest political misjudgment in a generation. Worst since Chamberlain?

[Dquincy]

Cameron's only ever been interested in one thing, which is what makes this whole affair both so baffling, and so lolworthy. Biggest political misjudgment in a generation. Worst since Chamberlain?
You're forgetting Timothy Dalton.

[Gray Fox]

Shadow Leader of the House, Chris Bryant is out now. No idea who he is, but another one gone.

[Lee]

I like Bryant, if only because he has a history of treating Kay Burley like the cunt she is.

[Magic]

What are all these resignees doing now then? Is leaving the party basically quitting your job or are they still getting paid?

[Gray Fox]

That's what, 11 of his Shadow Cabinet gone in 24 hours, with more expected?

He is scheduled to have a Shadow Cabinet meeting tomorrow too. That's going to be awkward as fuck.

[7om]

They'll still be MPs. Just not in the shadow cabinet.

[Magic]

They'll still be MPs. Just not in the shadow cabinet.

Ah right so still Labour MPs just leaving their shadow cabinet roles.

[Gray Fox]

What are all these resignees doing now then? Is leaving the party basically quitting your job or are they still getting paid?

They haven't left the party. They're just resigning as members of his Shadow Cabinet. Essentially as strong a vote of no confidence you can make.

Problem is he apparently isn't listening.

[Dquincy]

That's what, 11 of his Shadow Cabinet gone in 24 hours, with more expected?

He is scheduled to have a Shadow Cabinet meeting tomorrow too. That's going to be awkward as fuck.
Meeting room booked for 30 no. and only 3 people turn up. Imagine the excess biscuits. :drool:

[Gray Fox]

Just him and Andy Burnham sat waiting, trying not to make eye contact.

[Yevrah]

This is the most shambolic period politics has been through in my lifetime by an absolute mile.

[Dquincy]

:D

"See the match last night?"
"What one?"
"Dunno"

[Magic]

We need proper minds and businessmen now. The end of career politicians?

[Gray Fox]

:D

"See the match last night?"
"What one?"
"Dunno"

"Alright, Jeremy. How are you?"
"I'm okay, you?"
"Yeah I'm good thanks. Good weekend?"
"..."

[Jimmy Floyd]

Cameron's only ever been interested in one thing, which is what makes this whole affair both so baffling, and so lolworthy. Biggest political misjudgment in a generation. Worst since Chamberlain?
He's always been a complacent fuck (all Etonians and Harrovians are - it's their achilles heel) and after a number of near misses it's finally caught up with him in spectacular fashion.

[GS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl58vayWgAAgYP5.jpg

He's a lunatic. Confirmed.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hang in there, Agent Jezza. We're all behind you.

Who the fuck is going to be in his new shadow cabinet? He might have to appoint a moth-eaten copy of 'The Communist Manifesto' as shadow work and pensions secretary.

[Dquincy]

Hope he gets D.Cam in his new line up.

[Yevrah]

What odds are there on him winning the next general election?

Everything is so fucked up now I'm not ruling anything out.

[GS]

Hang in there, Agent Jezza. We're all behind you.

Who the fuck is going to be in his new shadow cabinet? He might have to appoint a moth-eaten copy of 'The Communist Manifesto' as shadow work and pensions secretary.

More importantly, non-lunatic Labour need to start thinking of nuclear options.

You wonder how Ed Miliband feels at the minute, having effectively broken the country. Not only was he too shit to prevent the Tory majority which brought about the EU referendum in the first place, he's responsible for the rule changes which brought about Agent Jezza's election and contributed to its loss.

Well done, Ed, mate.

[Lee]

This is the most shambolic period politics has been through in my lifetime by an absolute mile.

It's bizarre.

We have a referendum result which apparently nobody planned for. The polls (which were mostly right this time) have for weeks been saying this was going to be close. That it could go either way. But nobody planned for it. The government should have contingency plans. Boris Johnson, given that this whole exercise for him was about becoming Prime Minister, should have some fucking idea about what to do next - although I do appreciate he would want to leave that until announcing his candidature.

The Prime Minister and Chancellor appear to be hiding. Johnson has been playing cricket and fucking about with his mates in his Oxfordshire pile. Michael 'fuck the experts' Gove has had his wife in Facebook asking for advice from experts. The Labour Party is having - probably necessarily - a mental breakdown but the leader doesn't appear to give a shit. And Nigel Farage is probably pissed somewhere and still laughing, in the knowledge that either we leave and he has fulfilled every ambition he ever had, or we don't and his party become bigger than he could ever have dreamt.

I've never seen such a leadership vacuum. What the fuck are these people playing at?

[GS]

What odds are there on him winning the next general election?

Everything is so fucked up now I'm not ruling anything out.

It's inconceivable, frankly. He has no credibility outside the lunatics in "the membership".

[Lee]

He's a lunatic. Confirmed.

The bloke is fucking ill. He'll win a leadership election too. Which is probably no bad thing given the alternative will probably be Tom fucking Watson. Fat cunt is on manouevres and will be telling Jezza to go tomorrow.

The normals have got to split. They absolutely have to.

[Jimmy Floyd]

More importantly, non-lunatic Labour need to start thinking of nuclear options.

You wonder how Ed Miliband feels at the minute, having effectively broken the country. Not only was he too shit to prevent the Tory majority which brought about the EU referendum in the first place, he's responsible for the rule changes which brought about Agent Jezza's election and contributed to its loss.

Well done, Ed, mate.

Other than forming a breakaway party, which they would BOTTLE, what can they do other than try to beat him in a leadership election?

God if he fought and won the leadership election it would be absolutely brilliant.

[Dquincy]

It's bizarre.

We have a referendum result which apparently nobody planned for. The polls (which were mostly right this time) have for weeks been saying this was going to be close. That it could go either way. But nobody planned for it. The government should have contingency plans. Boris Johnson, given that this whole exercise for him was about becoming Prime Minister, should have some fucking idea about what to do next - although I do appreciate he would want to leave that until announcing his candidature.

The Prime Minister and Chancellor appear to be hiding. Johnson has been playing cricket and fucking about with his mates in his Oxfordshire pile. Michael 'fuck the experts' Gove nas had his wife in Facebook asking for advice from experts. The Labour Party is having - probably necessarily - a mental breakdown but the leader doesn't appear to give a shit. And Nigel Farage is probably pissed somewhere and still laughing, in the knowledge that either we leave and he has fulfilled every ambition he ever had, or we don't and his party become bigger than he could ever have dreamt.

I've never seen such a leadership vacuum. What the fuck are these people playing at?

Very well summerised there.

Ps. This would never have happened under Thatcher's reign.

[Lee]

Other than forming a breakaway party, which they would BOTTLE, what can they do other than try to beat him in a leadership election?

God if he fought and won the leadership election it would be absolutely brilliant.

He would win. It's nailed on. He has lost a bit of support but not enough to stop the members who seem to have mistakenly joined the wrong party supporting him.

Some little wanker was crying on the BBC News earlier. "If he goes, I'll quit the party!" Jog on then son.

[GS]

It's bizarre.

We have a referendum result which apparently nobody planned for. The polls (which were mostly right this time) have for weeks been saying this was going to be close. That it could go either way. But nobody planned for it. The government should have contingency plans. Boris Johnson, given that this whole exercise for him was about becoming Prime Minister, should have some fucking idea about what to do next - although I do appreciate he would want to leave that until announcing his candidature.

The Prime Minister and Chancellor appear to be hiding. Johnson has been playing cricket and fucking about with his mates in his Oxfordshire pile. Michael 'fuck the experts' Gove nas had his wife in Facebook asking for advice from experts. The Labour Party is having - probably necessarily - a mental breakdown but the leader doesn't appear to give a shit. And Nigel Farage is probably pissed somewhere and still laughing, in the knowledge that either we leave and he has fulfilled every ambition he ever had, or we don't and his party become bigger than he could ever have dreamt.

I've never seen such a leadership vacuum. What the fuck are these people playing at?

It's becoming incredibly concerning. I'm genuinely of the view that Cameron and Osborne's behaviour amounts to a dereliction of duty. They may have campaigned for an In vote, but you'd surely expect that the necessary contingency planning was in place for an exit. They're still the executive, after all, and it's becoming clearer by the hour that Cameron's resignation was an act of gross personal indulgence at what is a time of national crisis.

I think Boris may have ideas, but he's ultimately in a very, very difficult position here. If he steps forward and says "this is my plan", that's a constitutional difficulty because he a) has no power to implement said plan and b) presumes that he's going to win the leadership election. It's still the executive's responsibility, not a referendum campaign, which is why Cameron and Osborne disappearing just isn't on.

It's compounded by the absolute meltdown which Labour are undergoing right now, of course. This was always bubbling, and for purely internal party political reasons I can understand why it's happening now. But it doesn't help.

It's Cameron and Osborne who need to recognise they're still in office and get a grip on the situation. I imagine they're wallowing in self-pity. At least Mark Carney showed some bollocks.

When this shitshow is over, I want a national government. Fuck party politics.

[Lewis]

The National Government would give them a brilliant opportunity to distance themselves from Jezza, who would obviously refuse to work with Conservatives. There would be a mega seethe at first, but then the unions and their voters would realise that they are making Brexit fair and diverse whilst Jezza is wanking along the sidelines, which would allow them to blow him out as an isolated old wank in 2018.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He would win. It's nailed on. He has lost a bit of support but not enough to stop the members who seem to have mistakenly joined the wrong party supporting him.

Some little wanker was crying on the BBC News earlier. "If he goes, I'll quit the party!" Jog on then son.

Therefore the only thing they can do is get him to resign, and the only way that can do that is either threaten to collapse the party, or if that doesn't work, actually do it.

I'm not sure any of them have the requisite spine for that.

[GS]

The bloke is fucking ill. He'll win a leadership election too. Which is probably no bad thing given the alternative will probably be Tom fucking Watson. Fat cunt is on manouevres and will be telling Jezza to go tomorrow.

The normals have got to split. They absolutely have to.


He would win. It's nailed on. He has lost a bit of support but not enough to stop the members who seem to have mistakenly joined the wrong party supporting him.

Some little wanker was crying on the BBC News earlier. "If he goes, I'll quit the party!" Jog on then son.

Watson is apparently handing him the loaded revolver tomorrow and inviting him to use it. I'm genuinely amazed he thinks he can hold on. I'm not sure if it's just bravado and he'll resign tomorrow. If he doesn't then, well, a split is surely on the cards.

Labour deserve never to be in government again given the damage they've done since 1997.

[Lewis]

Labour deserve never to be in government again given the damage they've done since 1997.

You seen this, Floyd?

[7om]

I think most people with a functioning brain knew Agent Corbyn was going to get knifed eventually but one year? Labour are complete shit.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You seen this, Floyd?

Sorry, was just finishing my glass of cabernet sauvignon.

[GS]

The Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/george-osborne-offered-top-job-of-foreign-secretary-by-boris-joh/) have Osborne being offered the Chancellorship or Foreign Secretary by Johnson/Gove in a bid to reunite the party.

:sick:

[Lee]

Therefore the only thing they can do is get him to resign, and the only way that can do that is either threaten to collapse the party, or if that doesn't work, actually do it.

I'm not sure any of them have the requisite spine for that.

Of course they don't. This is a party whose MPs deliberately lent him votes so that his "voice could be heard" in a leadership contest.

The Labour Party does not, and has never, existed for the type of people who currently run it. Traditional Labour voters want their manual jobs back, don't like immigration and would quite like to bring back hanging and use it on paedophiles. UKIP have identified that and it's why they're shitting the life out of Labour in their heartlands. They want a leader with a northern accent who will tell the posh boys to fuck off. It isn't electable, but it's what they want.

The people running the show at the minute are wankers like me. Do-gooders, university educated public servants who think they know best, overestimate their own intellect and would rather never set foot in a council estate for as long as they live. They "feel European" because they see immigration at the tapas bar or in the Lithuanian bird they pay to do their ironing.

What I'm saying is, they're fucking Liberal Democrats. They've stolen the Labour Party because there was a base there and it allowed them to win a few elections when somebody half charismatic turned up, but ultimately they hate the people they ask to vote for them and the feeling is mutual.

They're probably the worst kind of people and I'm one of the cunts.

[Yevrah]

How the fuck have we arrived at a position where Tom 'paedophile hunter' Watson is charged with bringing a mentalist round to reality to save the national party of opposition from imploding?

Given we can't exhume Thatcher, I think someone might need to send the bat-sign out for Blair. Whatever you think of those two, at least they understood how to run and party and a country, something which none of the current crop appear to have the first clue about.

We don't even have safe rollercoasters these days for fuck's sake.

[7om]

:D

Fair play, Lee.

[GS]

How the fuck have we arrived at a position where Tom 'paedophile hunter' Watson is charged with bringing a mentalist round to reality to save the national party of opposition from imploding?

Given we can't exhume Thatcher, I think someone might need to send the bat-sign out for Blair. Whatever you think of those two, at least they understood how to run and party and a country, something which none of the current crop appear to have the first clue about.

We don't even have safe rollercoasters these days for fuck's sake.

The Lord Blair would be crucified on Wimbledon Common before the current membership would vote for him.

[Lee]

The Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/george-osborne-offered-top-job-of-foreign-secretary-by-boris-joh/) have Osborne being offered the Chancellorship or Foreign Secretary by Johnson/Gove in a bid to reunite the party.

:sick:

Osborne is a good bloke to have onside to be fair. From what I've read he was the only person with the bottle to tell Cameron that holding the referendum was FUCKING MENTAL. But Cameron thinks he's invincible because he'd never post at anything before. Well, he did. He obviously realises that isn't the case now which is why he had a little cry outside his house the other morning.

The only danger with having Osborne as Chancellor in a Johnson government - and it's a significant one - is that you're inviting Blair/Brown MkII: The Posh War. Cameron and Osborne are never going to forgive Johnson and Gove. They'll behave like the spiteful public schoolboys they are. Keep him in the tent by all means. But stick him in the Foreign Office, out of the way and feasting on hos own self-importance whilst the mandarins look down on him.

[GS]

Osborne doesn't have the credibility for high office in the next government, is my view. Good to have him in the tent for party unity, perhaps. But not someone who should be taking one of the great offices of state.

[niko_cee]

The scenes when Jez wins the next Labour leadership contest in a landslide are going to be something else.

[Magic]

Lee running riot here.

[Yevrah]

The Lord Blair would be crucified on Wimbledon Common before the current membership would vote for him.

Well the current membership are going to vote for Corbyn time after time after time. He might be mental, but he's well aware of that.

[Davgooner]

The Mail and Express tomorrow look good fun.

[Byron]

The scenes when Jez wins the next Labour leadership contest in a landslide are going to be something else.

If that happens I'll just have to sign up for a lifetime Green membership and be done with it.

[Davgooner]

The margin of victory was 'not entirely overwhelming', says Boris.

:happycry:

[GS]

747183771485634562

Stand down, lads.

[niko_cee]

It's only a legit leak if it comes with a picture of him looking a bit rough on public transport.

[Bartholomert]

Why can't Blair swoop in and save Labor, is it the Iraq War?

[Lee]

So apparently Johnson thinks we will still have access to the single market, and that British people will still be able to move/live/work freely around Europe. But we'll have a points sytem for immigration, we'll pay nothing in and we'll not be subject to any EU laws. I'm not going to fault the bloke's optimisim.

He also says we are in no rush to change the relationship with Europe. And there's no mention of Article 50.

[Lee]

Why can't Blair swoop in and save Labor, is it the Iraq War?

Yes, although trust in him was waning before that. Basically they think he's a Tory cunt.

[GS]

So apparently Johnson thinks we will still have access to the single market, and that British people will still be able to move/live/work freely around Europe. But we'll have a points sytem for immigration, we'll pay nothing in and we'll not be subject to any EU laws. I'm not going to fault the bloke's optimisim.

He also says we are in no rush to change the relationship with Europe. And there's no mention of Article 50.

Is this his Telegraph article?

What a loon. :D

[Lee]

Is this his Telegraph article?

What a loon. :D

It is. His approach appears to be "stay in the EU".

[GS]

:face:

I fucking despair.

[Lee]

:face:

I fucking despair.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/i-cannot-stress-too-much-that-britain-is-part-of-europe--and-alw/

I mean for fuck's sake.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why can't Blair swoop in and save Labor, is it the Iraq War?

Tony is still pretty popular in America I understand, but here he is despised by almost everyone of all political colours, for different reasons, although they all boil down to the fact that he's a terrible human being.

[Yevrah]

It is. His approach appears to be "stay in the EU".

Just saw a bit of it on Sky News, he hasn't a clue about what to do to get us to leave with a decent deal and apparently doesn't really want to either.

I'm reminded of that time Derren Brown told everyone he'd predicted the lottery, without actually predicting the lottery.

I'm more convinced than ever now that this won't be seen through. There just aren't enough people who're already elected or with a realistic shot of being so that actually want to do it.

[Bartholomert]

Tony is still pretty popular in America I understand, but here he is despised by almost everyone of all political colours, for different reasons, although they all boil down to the fact that he's a terrible human being.

That sucks, he always seemed like a reasonable Bill Clinton kinda leftist, where you grumble about some of his decisions but overall he does alright. Tbh my knowledge of British politics is increasingly being exposed as very shallow so take that as a 'vague general perception in America' opinion.

[7om]

Originally posted by BoJo

The only change – and it will not come in any great rush – is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU’s extraordinary and opaque system of legislation

All the article needed was a picture of him impersonating the troll face and he'll have won civilisation as we know it.

[Lee]

He's basically laughing at poor people with that article.

[Shindig]

Boris wants an out badly. Dear EU, throw this man a pity package. Arnando Ianucci better be writing a Thick of It special super quick about a Tory pity referendum backfiring.

[Yevrah]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/i-cannot-stress-too-much-that-britain-is-part-of-europe--and-alw/

I mean for fuck's sake.

Yeah, we're not going anywhere. Or at least if we are, it sure as shit won't be Boris doing it.

He's potentially killed his career here, the massive twat.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Boris was at his strongest as London mayor when attacking Dave from the left on things like immigration and the living wage, because in that job he basically had free rein to say what he really thought. He's now apparently doing the opposite, but he doesn't believe a word of it.

Gove is a clever bastard, as are the faceless policy wonks behind them, though so hopefully they'll sort everything out.

[GS]

:face:

For fuck sake.

This - this - is what Boris' ambition is when he's PM.

Hopefully Gove gets stuck in and saves the day.

[Lee]

Yeah, we're not going anywhere. Or at least if we are, it sure as shit won't be Boris doing it.

He's potentially killed his career here, the massive twat.

You're joking, the masses are going to lap it up. He's saying it's our turn to take their jobs and buy their houses, Yev. Revenge of the English. And he's got funny hair and calls table tennis Whiff Whaff. What's not to like?

[Shindig]

"Wow, this politician sure is unsure of himself... Yeah, that's our Boris..."

I'll throw something out here: Tony Blair: Conservative leader.

[Yevrah]

You're joking, the masses are going to lap it up. He's saying it's our turn to take their jobs and buy their houses, Yev. Revenge of the English. And he's got funny hair and calls table tennis Whiff Whaff. What's not to like?

He's not actually going to take us out of the EU, which I suspect won't go down very well with either side of the debate.

[niko_cee]

He'll be a national hero, of the newly formed LondoJockland anyway.

[Lee]

He's not actually going to take us out of the EU, which I suspect won't go down very well with either side of the debate.

I know. The best line is his conviction that "Leavers were not driven by anxieties about immigration". :harold:

Scenario:

Boris wins Tory leadership. Wants is to join EEA (can't not leave the EU and this is the closest arrangement to it). Calls an election.

Labour elect somebody half competent as leader (lol). Campaign on the basis that EEA is pointless as we get all the shit but no influence. Might as well stay in the EU.

Lib Dems campaign on changing the official language to Esperanto and forcing schools to serve a Mediterranean diet.

UKIP go mental.

Result: most hung parliament in history, the whole thing gets dropped.

They never thought they'd actually win. It's a stitch up.

[niko_cee]

We should appoint Farage as our next European Commissioner.

[GS]

The EEA is just an appalling half-way house where we somehow contrive to have even less control than we do now.

If it's a choice between the EU and the EEA, then we may as well not have had the referendum. If that's the way a Johnson Premiership is going, then I'd have to agree that it's a stitch up and it's his intention to avoid pulling the plug.

'Sovereignty' indeed.

[Yevrah]

It all points to the theory that he never thought he'd win, but could make political gain from a plucky and narrow defeat.

Which makes him a complete shithouse.

[Lee]

The EEA is just an appalling half-way house where we somehow contrive to have even less control than we do now.

If it's a choice between the EU and the EEA, then we may as well not have had the referendum. If that's the way a Johnson Premiership is going, then I'd have to agree that it's a stitch up and it's his intention to avoid pulling the plug.

'Sovereignty' indeed.

The mentalist is proposing more than EEA membership. Freedom of movement but only for Brits. No payment to the EU budget. A seat at the table where all big decisions are made. He's off his tits.

[GS]

It all points to the theory that he never thought he'd win, but could make political gain from a plucky and narrow defeat.

Which makes him a complete shithouse.

I never doubted this was his intention, but considered the ends justified the means if Leave won and it meant the restoration of genuine democracy to the country.


The mentalist is proposing more than EEA membership. Freedom of movement but only for Brits. No payment to the EU budget. A seat at the table where all big decisions are made. He's off his tits.

He's probably still in campaign mode with the Tory leadership coming up. Gove said during the campaign we couldn't have access to the single market if we wanted to control immigration. He knows the craic, really, so presumably he'll be in charge of negotiations and will come out with something vaguely sensible.

[Yevrah]

The mentalist is proposing more than EEA membership. Freedom of movement but only for Brits. No payment to the EU budget. A seat at the table where all big decisions are made. He's off his tits.

Yep, this line from his article had me spitting my coffee out.


British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down.

Fucking seriously?

[GS]

To be fair, he hasn't said that's within the system of free movement. You can still do that, providing you have some sort of skill to offer. You can't have a loafer go and live in Paris because "bohemian lifestyle, mate".

[Raoul Duke]

It all points to the theory that he never thought he'd win, but could make political gain from a plucky and narrow defeat.

Which makes him a complete shithouse.

This was absolutely clear from the outset. That people on the 'Brexit' side are just waking up to this now is pretty amusing.

[Shindig]

They have plenty of French people already doing that. Lol, 'strikes'.

[Lee]

He's probably still in campaign mode with the Tory leadership coming up. Gove said during the campaign we couldn't have access to the single market if we wanted to control immigration. He knows the craic, really, so presumably he'll be in charge of negotiations and will come out with something vaguely sensible.

If Johnson becomes PM he is absolutely not instructing anybody to do anything which would negotiate away single market access. He's pro-immigration anyway. As is Gove, but at least he is a pragmatic sort.

If you want us to leave the EU you need to be signing up as a Tory member and voting against Johnson, ideally for some right winger who will lose a General Election but have us out by then anyway. Johnson will not be doing it.

[Yevrah]

To be fair, he hasn't said that's within the system of free movement. You can still do that, providing you have some sort of skill to offer. You can't have a loafer go and live in Paris because "bohemian lifestyle, mate".

Yeah, I did countenance that he was getting at that, but the general tone of the article suggests he's living in some sort of fantasy land where there'll be no drawbacks to leaving whatsoever.

[GS]

This was absolutely clear from the outset. That people on the 'Brexit' side are just waking up to this now is pretty amusing.

Quite. They should have accepted it was a political necessity for the leave side if they were going to compete, but buying into the idea he was doing it out of principle is a right laugh.

Gove's the brains of the operation, but he's also a true believer in it. If he leads the negotiations, we might be fine.

[Lee]

To be fair, he hasn't said that's within the system of free movement. You can still do that, providing you have some sort of skill to offer. You can't have a loafer go and live in Paris because "bohemian lifestyle, mate".

This is like when Savile wasn't a paedo or Armstrong wasn't a cheat. The bloke's a con artist. Don't do it to yourself. :(

[GS]

If Johnson becomes PM he is absolutely not instructing anybody to do anything which would negotiate away single market access. He's pro-immigration anyway. As is Gove, but at least he is a pragmatic sort.

If you want us to leave the EU you need to be signing up as a Tory member and voting against Johnson, ideally for some right winger who will lose a General Election but have us out by then anyway. Johnson will not be doing it.

We're fucked as a country, aren't we.

[Yevrah]

This was absolutely clear from the outset. That people on the 'Brexit' side are just waking up to this now is pretty amusing.

Oh I'm sure people knew he was doing it for political gain, but they assumed he'd at least have an idea of what do to if he won. It was never that unlikely that it would go the way it has.

[Raoul Duke]

Quite. They should have accepted it was a political necessity for the leave side if they were going to compete, but buying into the idea he was doing it out of principle is a right laugh.

Gove's the brains of the operation, but he's also a true believer in it. If he leads the negotiations, we might be fine.

Gove is as unelectable as PM as Corbyn though, hence why he needs BoJo. Gove looks like a nonce

[GS]

This is like when Savile wasn't a paedo or Armstrong wasn't a cheat. The bloke's a con artist. Don't do it to yourself. :(

I'll give it a couple of years, but I will be SEETHING if we don't end up in a situation where we demonstrably control all laws (short of international law) in this jurisdiction.

[Lewis]

We should do nothing for a year and let them blink first (or the Rhodesia Option). Whatever happens, we can't have free movement, even if it means waving the single market goodbye.

[GS]

Gove's is as unelectable as PM as Corbyn though, hence why he needs BoJo. Gove looks like a nonce

I agree - Gove can lead the negotiations from No 11 or the FCO. I'd prefer Theresa May as Prime Minister to Boris, I reckon.

[GS]

We should do nothing for a year and let them blink first (or the Rhodesia Option). Whatever happens, we can't have free movement, even if it means waving the single market goodbye.

The Canadian model they've just negotiated looks an eminently sensible starting point for discussion.

[7om]

If Johnson becomes PM he is absolutely not instructing anybody to do anything which would negotiate away single market access. He's pro-immigration anyway. As is Gove, but at least he is a pragmatic sort.

If you want us to leave the EU you need to be signing up as a Tory member and voting against Johnson, ideally for some right winger who will lose a General Election but have us out by then anyway. Johnson will not be doing it.

The only saving grace for the Tories is that there is nobody else even remotely electable. It's now a case of a Tory coming forward to either fuck the referendum over or be the one to lead us out of Europe. Labour aren't getting a sniff.

[Raoul Duke]

May is a total shithouse. The 'Snoopers Charter' was a horrific overreach of government powers

[Yevrah]

Are any bookies taking bets on when article 50 is triggered? With 'never' as an option?

Could make for a nice pension fund.

[GS]

May is a total shithouse. The 'Snoopers Charter' was a horrific overreach of government powers

Needs must.

[Lee]

Sounds like it's time for Prime Minister Liam Fox.

[Lewis]

If nothing else, the European Union putting not wanting others to leave above a mutually-beneficial trade agreement proves exactly why we had to fuck them off, so I reckon you could carry most leave voters with you if you refused to entertain free movement.

[Lee]

If nothing else, the European Union putting not wanting others to leave above a mutually-beneficial trade agreement proves exactly why we had to fuck them off, so I reckon you could carry most leave voters with you if you refused to entertain free movement.

Definitely. The next Tory leader ought to promise that they won't accept free movement as part of any deal then call and election. Every other party is fucked. The Lib Dems will recover a bit picking up a few middle class remainers but other than that you're looking at winning a huge majority with a mandate to carry out a proper hardnosed negotiation.

[7om]

Diane Abbott was absolutely unbearable on the QT special. Having a pop at the Leave side for not getting us out the day after the pissing referendum made her look mentally ill.

[ItalAussie]

I've been off travelling, so I only caught sketchy details of how it all went down.

But overall, I'm disappointed that the vote went the way it did. I'm not angry or mortified or anything like that, because it doesn't really affect me anymore. But I'm kind of sad, because I think the UK is only hurting itself, and to a lesser extent hurting the European project (which I think is a great idea, and still should be). The fallout since then has been a bit crazy, but on the whole, democracy was done.

[elth]

Those nasty remain campaigners saying a Leave vote would result in instability and chaos are sure getting shown up.

[Shindig]

BBC are doing 5Live Breakfast from some bloke's house in Middlesbrough. He voted Leave because Boro is skint. "£350m a week and I don't know how much we get back..."

Mate, that's because Westminster doesn't give a fuck about Middlesbrough. Westminster.

EDIT: Decent speech, George. Shame about the questions afterwards. Tories are fucked. Labour is fucked. Piers Morgan made a quip about everyone all getting behind it and everything being okay. Cunt.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Theresa May is the worst of all possible options for PM. Awful, awful person who stands for nothing. Even John Redwood would be better.

[Dquincy]

What happened with the questions afterwards? Did he struggle to answer them?

[Shindig]

During the campaign he was going on about how we needed a swift response to an exit. That includes an emergency budget he touted that would be needed within days. During the speech he was going on about how we had time to play with and there would be no emergency budget.

[niko_cee]

Isn't it patently obvious that everyone was lying across the board during the campaign? The reason for this is that when you say something vaguely truthful (Jez I'm 7.5/10 on this EU business) you are lampooned and blamed. Of course there was going to be market shock in the event of an exit, particularly when the fucking market, which apparently we should be entrusting the democratic process over to, got it so fucking spectacularly wrong in the first place.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Indeed, one of the biggest unremarked lols in this whole thing was the hedge funds and their privately commissioned exit polls making a complete cunt of it and everyone in the City being taken by as much surprise as the bleeding heart wankers on Twitter.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Diane Abbott takes over at Shadow Health.

:rotate:

[Bartholomert]

Of course they don't. This is a party whose MPs deliberately lent him votes so that his "voice could be heard" in a leadership contest.

The Labour Party does not, and has never, existed for the type of people who currently run it. Traditional Labour voters want their manual jobs back, don't like immigration and would quite like to bring back hanging and use it on paedophiles. UKIP have identified that and it's why they're shitting the life out of Labour in their heartlands. They want a leader with a northern accent who will tell the posh boys to fuck off. It isn't electable, but it's what they want.

The people running the show at the minute are wankers like me. Do-gooders, university educated public servants who think they know best, overestimate their own intellect and would rather never set foot in a council estate for as long as they live. They "feel European" because they see immigration at the tapas bar or in the Lithuanian bird they pay to do their ironing.

What I'm saying is, they're fucking Liberal Democrats. They've stolen the Labour Party because there was a base there and it allowed them to win a few elections when somebody half charismatic turned up, but ultimately they hate the people they ask to vote for them and the feeling is mutual.

They're probably the worst kind of people and I'm one of the cunts.

Dat self-awareness :hug:

[Lee]

This whole thing looks like it has been a massive waste of time. It's obvious we are going to end up with EEA status. What was the point?

[Dquincy]

This whole thing looks like it has been a massive waste of time. It's obvious we are going to end up with EEA status. What was the point?

Because it means we're not in the club, but we still get some benefit from the club...i think?

[phonics]

These resignations are getting silly now. It's getting to the point where it's like they've just made up a politician and a post and just gone with it.

"I, Jeoffrey Berkshire, have resigned from my position as The Shadow Minister For Sugar, Spice and Everything Nice"

[Jimmy Floyd]

Tom Watson has told him to resign. Not really sure how it's got to the stage where Tom Watson telling someone to resign constitutes a significant escalation, but here we are.

Hang in there, Jezza. The Russians are nowhere near Berlin.

[Yevrah]

This whole thing looks like it has been a massive waste of time. It's obvious we are going to end up with EEA status. What was the point?

I'm honestly not sure even that's going to happen. I don't think anyone with the conviction of their beliefs to pull us out is anything like close enough to be in a position to actually do it.

[Lee]

I'm honestly not sure even that's going to happen. I don't think anyone with the conviction of their beliefs to pull us out is anything like close enough to be in a position to actually do it.

Someone like Leadsom might. She has a chance of becoming leader if she stands, I reckon. I think she's quite impressive. Gove would push for it too. Everything coming from Johnson suggests he'd get away with it if he can find a way. The Germans would quite like it too. Odds on a referendum on the proposed deal, or a GE with that as the main campaign theme?

I think the problem is that he consensus is we may well be fucked if we don't manage to negotiate access to the single market. We can only get that by accepting the rules and that includes freedom of movement.

You'd think (I have no idea) we are more valuable to the EU than Norway so may get something on movement. Such as it being stipulated that people can come in if they have a job lined up. But most EU immigrants work anyway so there won't be much difference. Get a holiday VISA, find a job.

UKIP are going to fucking boom at the next election.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The thing is, UKIP have sort of been seen as acceptable cranks up until this point because their raison d'etre has been leaving the EU. If their raison d'etre shifts to being anti-immigration, they're basically the BNP, and I don't think an actual far right party would get any traction here.

That said, all these Labour voters will have to go somewhere.

[Lee]

It will be "Leave the EU because the establishment haven't really done it" combined with immigration. Don't underestimate the extent to which that will be successful. There were plenty of good reasons to vote leave. Immigration among them.

But a lot of the white working class genuinely are thick and racist. I've lived with them. I've had conversations with relatives who voted Leave "to get rid of the Muslims". They're fucking idiots. Fair play to Farage, he knows exactly what he's doing. They'll lap up the UKIP message. UKIP, even if they went mental, are not going to be like the BNP. They're now the acceptable representatives of a pretty horrible seam of thought. They stand to mop up.

[phonics]

I've had conversations with relatives who voted Leave "to get rid of the Muslims".

Having spoken with family members from Brum since the vote. This is the overwhelming thing I heard. One sentence was, "The Hindu's were alright even if they do smell funny, we thought the Pakis were bad but this Muslim lot take the biscuit" followed by a 5 minute rant on taking back the borders.

I didn't bother with a follow up.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Nevertheless, the total hypocrisy of those seething Remainers is as bad as anything the white working class may or may not be up to. There are absolutely no questions being asked about why 17.4 million people have come to disagree with them, apparently they are just all stupid. If it's so obviously stupid, why did all those people vote for it and why did a highly funded campaign consisting of the full political and business establishment fail to convince them otherwise? These are the questions they should be asking. Self-pitying tossers.

[Lee]

Nevertheless, the total hypocrisy of those seething Remainers is as bad as anything the white working class may or may not be up to. There are absolutely no questions being asked about why 17.4 million people have come to disagree with them, apparently they are just all stupid. If it's so obviously stupid, why did all those people vote for it and why did a highly funded campaign consisting of the full political and business establishment fail to convince them otherwise? These are the questions they should be asking. Self-pitying tossers.

These people have been ignored for years. That's the problem. The major parties give a fuck about a few marginal seats and that's your lot. Look at who voted Leave. Look where they live. Post-industrial towns that have been ignored for years. Is it any wonder that they voted against those they perceive to have left them in the shit?

I don't say that people voted Leave because they are stupid. I say they voted Leave because people on that side of the argument, Farage in particular, realised they actually have to speak to them to win elections. Turnout was up because the white working class had something to vote for.

[Jimmy Floyd]

All correct, but the Remainer attitude (I'm talking about wankers on twitter here, but it's clearly a widely held thought in London) seems to be that the post-industrial white working class are actually some kind of untermensch whose views and lives are less valuable than their own.

Yes, I went there.

[GS]

Owen Smith, Angela Eagle and Lisa Nandy are all set to resign, and the latter is currently favourite for the leadership.

I'm genuinely aghast at the state of things.

[Lee]

All correct, but the Remainer attitude (I'm talking about wankers on twitter here, but it's clearly a widely held thought in London) seems to be that the post-industrial white working class are actually some kind of untermensch whose views and lives are less valuable than their own.

Yes, I went there.

I have come across people who would deny them the vote. Seriously.

Nandy has ruled out standing as leader, Owen Smith (who?) has said Corbyn has to go or face a formal split.

[Lee]

Owen Smith, Angela Eagle and Lisa Nandy are all set to resign, and the latter is currently favourite for the leadership.

I'm genuinely aghast at the state of things.

The Thick of It team couldn't have written this. Our leaders have lost an election and they've responded by hiding. They are literally hiding.

We are effectively without a government and the opposition are imploding. People like me ought not worry about leaving the EU. We are more European than we've ever been, on account of having transformed into fucking Belgium.

[GS]

It's genuinely disgracefully the way they're behaving.

Corbyn still clinging on is the stuff of nightmare. Stop being such a wanker, for fuck sake.