U.S. Presidential Election 2016 (Sponsored by Betty Croker's Hamburger Helper)

[randomlegend]

Or he would be, except your story isn't true.

[Pepe]

Definitely a surgeon.

Indeed.

[Spikey M]

*American

[Spikey M]

Actually they're playing football, so presumably it's either a woman or an immigrant.

[Pepe]

No immigrant would do such thing.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I used to love playing in goal, especially in kickabouts where it doesn't even matter if you concede. Always in the game, don't have to run around, occasionally get to do something spectacular. No idea why everyone hates it so much.

[Pepe]

Because I want to play football and run around, not stand around doing nothing. I've been enjoying it a bit more in this place, since it is five a side so there is more action and it is only five minutes at a time but still, rather be on the field.

[randomlegend]

Perhaps you should've been a surgeon and then you wouldn't have to play in goal.

Starting to sound like this guy has donned you senseless.

[-james-]

There's a guitarist I play with sometimes who says the same thing. It seems fair enough to me. I think he broke a finger going in goal once, but it's only because he's of the very rare breed who actually practice goalkeeping (makes diving saves rather than just halfarsedly attempting to kick shots away).

[Lofty]

I never hurt myself diving or charging out, I did fuck my hand once foolishly trying to stretch and palm away an absolute thunderbastard I had no business going for though. It went in regardless.

[Pepe]

If they blast them, I just ignore them. No way I'm putting my hand in there .

[niko_cee]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gkk34UIXIAAX_WV?format=jpg&name=900x900

:lol:

[Yevrah]

That is very good. :D

[phonics]

Living in Tory Malvern I've seen a large amount of Teslas with 'I didn't know he was mental when I bought one' bumper stickers attached to them.

[niko_cee]

Yeah, I've heard of that although have not seen it in Tory heartland turned lib dem Horsham yet. Did get a pic sent of a Trump flag flying in a small village outside of Brighton. We be deeply fucked.

[randomlegend]

Measles outbreak in the US now.

Anti-vaxxers really are particularly unbearable in that it's not even them that is the primary victim of their stupidity, it's some poor kid who had no say in the matter.

[Boydy]

1894804823238697426

1894806732070604952

[Yevrah]

Measles outbreak in the US now.

Anti-vaxxers really are particularly unbearable in that it's not even them that is the primary victim of their stupidity, it's some poor kid who had no say in the matter.

This is obviously moronic, but insisting people had a Covid vaccine when they manifestly didn't need one has contributed to where we are now and I think it's important that that isn't forgotten.

[randomlegend]

Which people "manifestly didn't need one"? All the research I've seen is still saying the risk-benefit was in favour of vaccination in all age groups, even children. That's ignoring the benefits to the vulnerable of community immunity, although you may have been in favour of attempting to to euthanise the elderly by pandemic.

Taz "manifestly didn't need one" and ended up with permanent brain damage from covid. That's not me taking the piss, he literally did.

[Yevrah]

I didn't need a second one yet I was forced to if I wanted to go on holiday.

And more elderly people died catching the fucking thing in 'care' environments than they did by bumping into you or I.

Everything after the first vaccine was a shit show and we fucked up. Hiding behind the 'science' and then wondering why vaccine uptake has diminished is just being wilfully tone deaf.

[Yevrah]

It actually staggers me that people are still maintaining this view after the practical effect it had in long term vaccine uptake are as clear as day to see. Also not helped by the fact that as far as vaccines go, this one (or the variants thereof) was/were absolute shite.

[randomlegend]

Staggers me that people are so desperate to feel like they are in the smart group who knows something everyone else doesn't that they no longer see evidence as something with value.

Which is what the anti-vax movement is itself borne out of.

We shouldn't be predicating our response to a pandemic based on what impact it will have on stupid people's vaccine uptake rate.

[randomlegend]

Anyway, I have about as much interest in rehashing this argument as I do deep-frying my own scrotum, so I'm off to bed.

[Yevrah]

Staggers me that people are so desperate to feel like they are in the smart group who knows something everyone else doesn't that they no longer see evidence as something with value.

Which is what the anti-vax movement is itself borne out of.

The evidence is bollocks, which is as clear as day to see for anyone who lived through it. If you were elderly, ill, immunocompromised then absolutely - inject it into their nuts - for everyone else it put the scientific method back about forty years.

[Yevrah]

Which isn't to say that it particularly endangered people who had it, don't get that twisted, I'm not saying that for one minute, but we were told we all needed it when we didn't. It didn't even stop you catching or spreading it FFS.

[Yevrah]

We shouldn't be predicating our response to a pandemic based on what impact it will have on stupid people's vaccine uptake rate.

Just to quote this edit. If we want people to take vaccine uptake as seriously as they should then we absolutely should be. 'Stupid' people make up a significant portion of the population and therefore are crucial to the overall and sustained success of any vaccine programme.

Why do the left or your ilk refuse to be pragmatic? "I'm intelligent, everyone else should be the same, therefore they should do what I do". It's moronic as it absolutely isn't, never has been, nor ever will be, how the majority of humans work and they're not remotely persuaded by that line of thinking. What more evidence is needed to demonstrate that?

EDIT: Actually, maybe they once were but in this post internet age they sure as shit aren't now and we can either put our fingers in our ears or accept it and try and deal with it. I know which approach I'd prefer.

[Magic]

This is obviously moronic, but insisting people had a Covid vaccine when they manifestly didn't need one has contributed to where we are now and I think it's important that that isn't forgotten.

Not in America, they've always had an antivaxx movement there.

[Yevrah]

Not in America, they've always had an antivaxx movement there.

They have, but the approach to Covid ultimately emboldened that.

[Pepe]

Taz "manifestly didn't need one" and ended up with permanent brain damage from covid. That's not me taking the piss, he literally did.


Pre-existing condition.

[John Arne]

I genuinely had no idea that people still think Covid vaccinations were a waste of time. The clinical trials seems to have been pretty conclusive in their efrectiveness.

[Kikó]

Yev didn't die from COVID so it was clearly a waste needing to be vaccinated.

[Shindig]

That's the crux of it, yeah. I don't think for one second vaccination mandates should've been on the cards like they were in North America. Vaccination is a choice. It's more often than not the right choice.

[niko_cee]

People only learn by bad things happening directly to them, and even then it's hit and miss as to whether they learn something useful or 'the right' thing.

I'm not sure anyone really knows how to square the post truth circle. Deceit on an industrial scale has been completely normalised to the point where we've just had a month or so of the absolute maddest shit from the fucking President of America. We're all Waiting for Superman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_%22Superman%22) and he isn't coming / he isn't Elon Musk.

[Boydy]

This shit is just mad though. He's not even a proper cabinet member and he just stands around lording it over them.

1894794992557724150

Still surprised Trump and him haven't fallen out yet.

[Yevrah]

He really doesn't lord it over anyone in that meeting. He's pretty deferential to them all and particularly to Trump.

[Yevrah]

Although I will concede that dressing like that really doesn't help his cause.

[Lofty]

If you criticise Musk in that meeting your cards will be marked, according to the book Character Limit about his Twitter takeover if you get him one on one he is receptive to criticism and pushback on his ideas but if you do it in front of an audience you're committing career suicide.

[randomlegend]

That's the crux of it, yeah. I don't think for one second vaccination mandates should've been on the cards like they were in North America. Vaccination is a choice. It's more often than not the right choice.

Vaccination can be a choice for adults; if they wanna take themselves out of the gene pool then all power to them.

The childhood vaccination programme should be made mandatory. As should IM vitamin K at birth.

[niko_cee]

And the home <pregnant pause> of the <pregnant pause> braaaaaaaavvvve? (https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-lawmakers-told-to-skip-town-halls-after-showdowns-with-angry-voters-go-viral/)

[randomlegend]

The evidence is bollocks, which is as clear as day to see for anyone who lived through it. If you were elderly, ill, immunocompromised then absolutely - inject it into their nuts - for everyone else it put the scientific method back about forty years.

Putting at risk my sanity, I'm going to engage with you on this in good faith because I'm bored.

When I talk about "the evidence" what that means is that it has been shown - on a population level - that the covid vaccine (even in low risk groups) is of overall benefit.

I think where this falls down is you are purely looking at this from an individual level, which makes it very difficult to see the benefit of these kinds of interventions. This is a very common problem faced in medicine and public health.

Yes, it is very unlikely that you - as an individual - were going to suffer a serious adverse outcome from contracting covid. But when it comes to vaccinating a pandemic, what is important is population level stuff.

Virtually everyone will have contracted covid at some point during the pandemic. That means you are dealing with extremely large numbers of patients, in the order of tens of millions.

The following aren't real numbers for covid because I can't be bothered to dig into them, they are just a worked example to get the point across. But they are probably not wildly unrepresentative.

Say Yevrah's risk of a serious adverse outcome from covid is 1% without vaccination. There's a good chance neither Yevrah nor anybody he knows like him would suffer a serious adverse outcome from covid if they were unvaccinated.

However, there are 10 million Yevrah-like people (i.e low risk adults) in the country. Say vaccinating all the Yevrah's reduces their risk of an adverse outcome by 50% i.e to 0.5% overall.

For an individual Yevrah that doesn't seem very worthwhile. On a population level that's 50,000 Yevrahs. For a health service (particularly one dealing with a pandemic) that is HUGELY significant and it is also hugely significant for those 50,000 Yevrahs. For context, from a quick scan there's roughly 150,00-200,000 ITU admissions in the UK per year.

The covid vaccine has been clearly demonstrated to have been beneficial on that kind of risk-benefit analysis in even low risk patients, even with the benefit of hindsight and post-hoc analysis. Remember that these decisions weren't even taken with that benefit, it was people trying to establish the best thing to do on a population level with incomplete data, little time and a new illness. The evidence is they absolutely got it right.

This is why we do things like the newborn screening. Do you know anyone with glutaric aciduria type 1 or medium chain acyl-coA dehydrogenase deficiency? No you don't. But we still screen ALL neonates for them. Why? Because on a population level, the risk benefit equation is in favour of doing so.

To make a slightly more flippant point, you also were vaccinated. You don't know what would've happened to you if you weren't; it's perfectly possible you could've lost your sense of smell forever or had an ITU admission. Vaccination is not a major or unpleasant intervention. Even if the absolute risk reduction is small on a personal level, I'd still argue it makes no sense not to have it given it all it subjects you to is about two seconds of very minor pain and maybe 24-48 hours of feeling a bit under the weather.

[Yevrah]

That's an excellent post and a very well constructed argument. if the evidence shows that vaccinating each indvidual age group (in and of itself) was beneficial, then fine, I stand corrected. If I've read your post correctly this is what I think you're saying.

If however the evidence shows that it was beneficial to vaccinate everyone as one group (with the vulnerable getting huge benefit, the not vulnerable getting none/a negative benefit but a net benefit overall) then I'm much less convinced.

If we went with the first approach for the second vaccine (I'm absolutely fine with everyone having the first btw) then I don't quite get why we were still giving it to 18 year olds. If the answer is because there was a net benefit of doing so across that whole age group, why did we then pull back from continuing to vaccinate actual kids?

[niko_cee]

An excellent post.

[Yevrah]

An excellent post.

It is, isn't it. I guess my other beef with the whole thing was the messaging around it (particularly at the second vaccine stage), but I suspect the medical people would have loved to relay it in the way RL has, but were overruled by people who thought we'd get better uptake if we strong armed/guilt tripped people into doing it. Which, given how much I bang on about pragmatism, has me squarely hoisted by my own petard if that is the case.

[randomlegend]

Yes, the evidence is of benefit in all adult age groups.

The "actual kids" question is more difficult to answer. The serious adverse outcomes become so rare once you get to down to that age group (you're talking 1 in hundreds of thousands or even millions for risk of death) that the benefit is less clear. We also didn't have the same concerted effort to vaccinate all children in the same way so we don't have the same quality and quantity of data. Paediatric care is also essentially entirely separate to adult care so the strain on the system was less of a concern (and the absolute numbers were much smaller both because the risk is lower and there's less children). My understanding is it's probably still an unanswered question but one that's probably not all that important to answer.

[niko_cee]

Vaccinating a child is probably more of a traumatic thing than vaccinating an adult, that alone should [and probably was] part of the overall calculation.

I think one of the main problems is that people are often unable to realise that evidence based decisions are preferable even if they end up being wrong [not saying that applies to covid or vaccines generally] than the often more conspiratorial alternatives, as they give you no basis for making sensible decisions in the first place or going forward. It's like predicting a stock market crash. Anyone can do it, and it will eventually happen, but the skill is in knowing when - I think people struggle with this and you just end up with "well X has been saying this for years" or "X was right all along" when there was no foundational reason for that rightness so it was essentially meaningless at best and dangerous/harmful at worst.

[Yevrah]

Last question and we can probably put this to bed on this forum once and for all. Why when the South African variant came along did the scientific community over here collectively shit itself, wanting us all back indoors/having no fun, despite the South African scientific community saying it was manifestly fine? Which it turned out to be.

[randomlegend]

Vaccinating a child is probably more of a traumatic thing than vaccinating an adult, that alone should [and probably was] part of the overall calculation.

I think one of the main problems is that people are often unable to realise that evidence based decisions are preferable even if they end up being wrong [not saying that applies to covid or vaccines generally] than the often more conspiratorial alternatives, as they give you no basis for making sensible decisions in the first place or going forward. It's like predicting a stock market crash. Anyone can do it, and it will eventually happen, but the skill is in knowing when - I think people struggle with this and you just end up with "well X has been saying this for years" or "X was right all along" when there was no foundational reason for that rightness so it was essentially meaningless at best and dangerous/harmful at worst.

Yes I wanted to make this point but wasn't sure how to word it in a way which did it justice.

In my opinion, even if it turned out that the vaccine was not particularly beneficial in younger people with the benefit of post-hoc analysis of the data, I would still think it was the right thing to have done at the time.

Decisions had to be taken on the basis of the evidence we had and when you have incomplete evidence you have to use a degree of extrapolation and...I guess educated intuition.

We were in a position where it was so important to get things under control that if our extrapolation turned out to be slightly wrong for one age group, that would have been an acceptable "mistake".

Monitoring of adverse effects of the vaccine was ongoing constantly so if there'd have been a major problem in a certain age group that would've been picked up.

[randomlegend]

Last question and we can probably put this to bed on this forum once and for all. Why when the South African variant came along did the scientific community over here collectively shit itself, wanting us all back indoors/having no fun, despite the South African scientific community saying it was manifestly fine? Which it turned out to be.

That's probably a question you'd need a virologist to answer. My vaguely educated guess would be that you can't automatically assume a variant will behave the same in a new population as it does in the one in which it arose.

I think ultimately there was a (correct in my opinion) feeling that it was better to over-egg the initial response and then back off if things were less bad than you thought than it was to under-egg it and then be trying to reel back in something that's run away from you.

[Magic]

Another excellent post.

[randomlegend]

Yes I wanted to make this point but wasn't sure how to word it in a way which did it justice.

In my opinion, even if it turned out that the vaccine was not particularly beneficial in younger people with the benefit of post-hoc analysis of the data, I would still think it was the right thing to have done at the time.

Decisions had to be taken on the basis of the evidence we had and when you have incomplete evidence you have to use a degree of extrapolation and...I guess educated intuition.

We were in a position where it was so important to get things under control that if our extrapolation turned out to be slightly wrong for one age group, that would have been an acceptable "mistake".

Monitoring of adverse effects of the vaccine was ongoing constantly so if there'd have been a major problem in a certain age group that would've been picked up.

Just to come back to this; the way you have to think about how people were making these decisions is again all about risk-benefit.

"What if we're wrong?"

If they recommended vaccinating young people and they're wrong, what were the likely consequences? In all likelihood, it would simply be a lack of benefit or at worst a small amount of harm from vaccine side effects outweighing the reduction in serious covid outcomes. It was very unlikely there was going to be huge harm from some unforeseen vaccine side effect which only happens in young people, and even if that became apparent it was being heavily monitored for and could be stopped.

If they recommended against vaccinating young people and they're wrong, what were the likely consequences? Probably catastrophic. If significant numbers of young people were suffering serious outcomes from covid because of not being vaccinated, that would've been disastrous both on an individual level and a healthcare provision level given the stress on the system at the time. If it turned out unvaccinated young people were just a big vector of transmission to the vulnerable (which they probably weren't, but we didn't know that at the time and based our thinking on what happens with other viruses) then again; disastrous. Etc etc.

These were very difficult decisions made based on incomplete knowledge and data, and that means sometimes you have to hedge for what you believe has the least likelihood of terrible outcome based on what you do know from the data you do have and your knowledge about similar entities.

[Magic]

Excellent.

[Lofty]

I come in here and it's like Stone Cold stunnering the McMahon family one after another.

[Spikey M]

What?

[Yevrah]

That's probably a question you'd need a virologist to answer. My vaguely educated guess would be that you can't automatically assume a variant will behave the same in a new population as it does in the one in which it arose.

I think ultimately there was a (correct in my opinion) feeling that it was better to over-egg the initial response and then back off if things were less bad than you thought than it was to under-egg it and then be trying to reel back in something that's run away from you.

I had no problem with the initial response, if anything we shut things down too late, but by the time we were 2 vaccines in and we had it relatively under control anyone calling for another lockdown (safe in the knowledge by this point of the damage those things were doing in an of themselves) wasn't remotely looking at it holistically and was suggesting something that was going to do far more damage than just asking the vulnerable to shield.

[niko_cee]

The BBC's political editor Chris Mason points out that Trump previously referred to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky as a "dictator". Does he still believe that?

"Did I say that, I can't believe I would say that", Trump replies.

:D

I see Sir K duly turned up with a letter from the king.

[randomlegend]

You're looking at it with the benefit of hindsight and saying nothing went wrong therefore it was mad to suggest a lockdown. I know you said the same at the time and have been "proved right", but that doesn't mean a risk didn't exist.

If that variant had arrived here and it turned out the vaccine wasn't particularly effective against it and it was more virulent, we'd have very quickly been back in the big shit. I don't know how likely an outcome that was - I have no expertise in that field of medicine. But if the people who are experts in that field are spooked, I think it's wise to listen and not just label them as mental. Nobody becomes a virologist because they have a fetish for calling for lockdowns.

[Yevrah]

You're looking at it with the benefit of hindsight and saying nothing went wrong therefore it was mad to suggest a lockdown. I know you said the same at the time and have been "proved right", but that doesn't mean a risk didn't exist.

If that variant had arrived here and it turned out the vaccine wasn't particularly effective against it and it was more virulent, we'd have very quickly been back in the big shit. I don't know how likely an outcome that was - I have no expertise in that field of medicine. But if the people who are experts in that field are spooked, I think it's wise to listen and not just label them as mental. Nobody becomes a virologist because they have a fetish for calling for lockdowns.

I can't explain why they seemed to have such a hard on for us to go back inside, particularly against the backdrop of South Africa telling them it was fine, but they did and I can't see how someone can weigh up a potential risk to an increasingly small number of people against an actual one caused by lockdowns to everyone (suicide, depression, domestic violence, creating a generation of socially retarded children etc.) and decide we should prioritise the former.

Now I know virologists are only concerned with the virus side of things and I'd struggle to call them mental as a result, but what I would call mental is the amplified voice those who were in charge of everything continued to give them against the well established backdrop of the damage lockdowns were causing.

[Yevrah]

Anyway, how's Kier getting on? He's going to look like Ed Miliband eating a sandwich next to Trump, isn't he?

[Manc]

Taz "manifestly didn't need one" and ended up with permanent brain damage from covid. That's not me taking the piss, he literally did.

You spout some nonsense.

[Yevrah]

Catching up on events at the Whitehouse, Kier seems to have done ok during the intro bit. Seeing David Lammy there strikers fear into my heart though.

[niko_cee]

It's ok, it's so Sir Keir can lament him as a DEI hire behind closed doors to bond with the Donald.

[randomlegend]

I can't explain why they seemed to have such a hard on for us to go back inside, particularly against the backdrop of South Africa telling them it was fine, but they did and I can't see how someone can weigh up a potential risk to an increasingly small number of people against an actual one caused by lockdowns to everyone (suicide, depression, domestic violence, creating a generation of socially retarded children etc.) and decide we should prioritise the former.

Now I know virologists are only concerned with the virus side of things and I'd struggle to call them mental as a result, but what I would call mental is the amplified voice those who were in charge of everything continued to give them against the well established backdrop of the damage lockdowns were causing.

Because that's probably not the risk they were concerned about; it's absolutely possible a variant could've become dangerous to everyone, including young people.

Why they still had that concern (or possibly a different but equally serious concern) despite it seemingly not being borne out in South Africa I don't know, as I said I think that's a question you'd need to pose to someone with more expertise. I postulated a theory above but it's really out of my wheelhouse. I would imagine they had some fairly solid reasoning behind their concern, but yeah they are also probably a relatively risk averse bunch.

You're right that the scientists are primarily only able to give advice from the perspective of their own expertise. Would it be a good idea to put virologists and public health doctors in sole charge of relevant policy? Probably not, and the role politicians are meant to play is to balance up the various factors and make pragmatic decisions. Maybe they did exactly that. Maybe we got extremely lucky. I don't think that's really a knowable thing.

[Boydy]

Have to go to the US next week. Between the plane crashes and near misses and the measles outbreaks, I'm not sure I'm gonna make it home.

It's probably too early for their civil war to start yet, isn't it? Hopefully I won't have to go next year at least.

[Shindig]

Who are you flying with?

[Magic]

Who are you flying with?

Hopefully no dead people.

[randomlegend]

Have to go to the US next week. Between the plane crashes and near misses and the measles outbreaks, I'm not sure I'm gonna make it home.

It's probably too early for their civil war to start yet, isn't it? Hopefully I won't have to go next year at least.

https://www.theverge.com/news/620777/starlink-verizon-contract-faa-communication-musk

Don't worry mate, SpaceX are taking it over and Musk's companies have stellar safety records.

[phonics]

Have to go to the US next week. Between the plane crashes and near misses and the measles outbreaks, I'm not sure I'm gonna make it home.

Spinzone: If you fill out that immigration form and tick the box asking if you were ever a member of the Nazi party between 1933 and 1945 there's a 50/50 chance that you could be made head of a federal department by the time you land.

[Boydy]

Spinzone: If you fill out that immigration form and tick the box asking if you were ever a member of the Nazi party between 1933 and 1945 there's a 50/50 chance that you could be made head of a federal department by the time you land.

:D

Unfortunately I've already filled it in so it's too late to try that.

[phonics]

In which case let’s hope your plane is super woke because it seems that DEI was the only thing keeping Boeing in business.

[Shindig]

Or get lucky on plane roulette with a couple of Airbuses. Although transatlantic usually means you're in a 787 Dreamliner.

[Disco]

Spinzone: If you fill out that immigration form and tick the box asking if you were ever a member of the Nazi party between 1933 and 1945 there's a 50/50 chance that you could be made head of a federal department by the time you land.

Grope a stewardess on the way over as well and they'll put you in the cabinet.

[Magic]

Or get lucky on plane roulette with a couple of Airbuses. Although transatlantic usually means you're in a 787 Dreamliner.

Detransatlantic.

[Yevrah]

Looks like Starmer did well. Pragmatism for the win. Bit of a moment when JD popped up with his free speech grenades, but he's probably right (to some degree at least) and I suspect we'll get there in the end.

A hearty lol will be had if the EU gets whacked with tariffs for the next four years and we don't.

[niko_cee]

It's going to be hilarious if Trump gets his minerals deal and then says to Putin something along the lines of no more gainz for you Vlad and if you want to be part of the big boy digging club then you're going to have age to give some back. Fire and fury or whatever the term was if US contractors get nuked on the ground, although maybe that would be the first time Trump would have ever cared about contractors.

[SvN]

Say what you want about Starmer, but pulling that letter out from Charles was a brilliant move to stroke Trump's ego.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Macron seething at home with his shitty republic.

[Yevrah]

Say what you want about Starmer, but pulling that letter out from Charles was a brilliant move to stroke Trump's ego.

Yep, that was a masterstroke.

[Yevrah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7le4hf9djWQ

Quite the skill to do that while not looking like you've gone full gun arse kiss.

[Lofty]

The royal seal of approval getting a lot more traction here than it did for the world cup bid, anyway.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Chuck Blazer is not so easily bought.

[Disco]

Imagine the insane places the world cup would have been held had FIFA been this cartoonishly easily to manipulate.

[Bernanke]

1895528566148002026

:eyemouth:

[Yevrah]

I'm not really sure what Zelensky thinks he's doing, given he has no legs to stand on.

[Pepe]

https://media.tenor.com/lXk-pvCPIQwAAAAM/shiit-sheesh.gif

[Pepe]

Zelensky should drop the 'dress like in the frontlines' schtick.

[Shindig]

I can't blame him for being mad. If the yanks saved anything, why are Ukraine's borders going to look very different in this deal?

[Foe]

I'm not really sure what Zelensky thinks he's doing, given he has no legs to stand on.

Surely the leg to stand on is “does the world want good or bad to prevail”.

Clear that trump gives zero shit about that illusion and has kicked him out.

Americas reputation in tatters.

[Kikó]

I'm not really sure what Zelensky thinks he's doing, given he has no legs to stand on.

How do you take away from that video Zelensky is at fault?

[Disco]

Trumps deal amount to "Fuck you and your country, give me all your stuff" with no guarantees, why would any sane leader act differently in his situation?

[Yevrah]

Trumps deal amount to "Fuck you and your country, give me all your stuff" with no guarantees, why would any sane leader act differently in his situation?

Because he literally has no other option.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This is just classic Donald J Trump really. Treating geopolitics like he's taking over a failing hotel. Screw the old owners and humiliate them to keep lowering the price.

[Yevrah]

Surely the leg to stand on is “does the world want good or bad to prevail”.

They’re not his legs.

[niko_cee]

The confederacy of dunces being surprised Zelensky doesn't roll over to have his tummy tickled after they've told him to give up 20% of his country and them a load of money. Unless they've managed to fire them all and replace them with same tier spastics, which I wouldn't rule out entirely, there must be some serious diplomatic heads in hands behind the scenes.

Still think Europe should step in with the seized Russian stuff to do this deal under Trump's nose for maximum bants.

[Kikó]

He's not going to let Ukraine be ransacked by a different burglar. Trump is only like this because he's intimidated by an actual strong leader.

[Yevrah]

How do you take away from that video Zelensky is at fault?

Fault is neither here nor there. He needs the US’ support and he’s been there 5 minutes before an argument broke out. If that was the plan, why did he bother going?

I know everyone is on his side at the minute and it’s only Lewis and I with an opinion that differs at all from the one behind that stance but public opinion will change eventually the longer this waste of life and money continues.

[Yevrah]

He's not going to let Ukraine be ransacked by a different burglar. Trump is only like this because he's intimidated by an actual strong leader.

Why has he bothered going then? He’s got delusions of grandeur if he thinks he can change Trump’s stance or the Americans that voted for him with this approach.

[Magic]

Absolutely mental. Lol the news conference cancelled.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Everything's coming up Milhouse (with an e, natch) for Britain though. We'll soon be the great intermediaries of the world.

[Yevrah]

Has he actually kicked him out? :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why has he bothered going then? He’s got delusions of grandeur if he thinks he can change Trump’s stance or the Americans that voted for him with this approach.

You think he had choices about this? They only invited him so they could immediately humiliate him in the most theatrical way possible.

[Foe]

They’re not his legs.

So what are allies for? How Europeans respond to this will dictate the way forward but I guess a lot of European leaders will now doubt they can trust America for the next 4 years and then who knows.

[Foe]

I would be interested how fox is reporting this, but I tend to have Bloomberg on and they’re in complete shock at what they just saw.

Also interested how republican senate and congress persons feel about trump threatening to abandon Ukraine.

[Yevrah]

So what are allies for? How Europeans respond to this will dictate the way forward but I guess a lot of European leaders will now doubt they can trust America for the next 4 years and then who knows.

We are not Ukraine’s allies. Were we we wouldn’t have sidled up to Russia for 20 years, ignored what happened in Crimea and let them into NATO.

[Yevrah]

You think he had choices about this? They only invited him so they could immediately humiliate him in the most theatrical way possible.

He had a choice as to whether he went or not.

[niko_cee]

None of this will have been planned. Trump is completely uncontrollable, his little lap dog is an ostensible idiot and no one behind the scenes will have had the nous to wargame "what if Zelensky doesn't go for it?"

[Disco]

It's all sycophants this time around, which means it will be much more entertaining.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It can't be stated enough how thick JD Vance is. One of the worst type of Americans, who think that being the smartest guy in Shitbucket, Alabama (population 17) means you are also the smartest guy in the world.

[niko_cee]

At one point, Ukraine's ambassador to the US appeared to have her head in her hands, clearly displeased with the way the meeting was going.

:lol:

[niko_cee]

Just seen it. Zelensy donned Vance absolutely senseless.

More coherent in a second language. Damning.

[Lewis]

I think Zelensky has got a bit used to turning up in his workwear and playing on politicians desperate to associate themselves with him. He should have just praised American support and batted away any questions about disagreements, pricing in the fact that Trump will just blurt out the very same shit he will normally be told in private, but he thought he could big man it for the journalists like he usually does, and then you get this all-round embarrassment.

[niko_cee]

Zelensky still slated to appear on Fox at 11.

:drool:

[Yevrah]

That will be dynamite. :drool:

[Kikó]

It can't be stated enough how thick JD Vance is. One of the worst type of Americans, who think that being the smartest guy in Shitbucket, Alabama (population 17) means you are also the smartest guy in the world.

This.

Vance is a slimy prick.

[Manc]

This all goes back to that "beautiful phone call" in 2019.

[Giggles]

Vance is a legend. Your next president.

[phonics]

Long live Xi Jinping.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I was wondering the other day what the mechanism for getting rid of Xi (71) would/will eventually be. Normally they call some conference of about 600,000 delegates entitled something like 'The People's Committee for Propagation and Reconstitution of Public, Adminstrative and Municipal Conventions' and at the end of it whoever hasn't been taken ill with a mysterious sweating sickness is the new chairman.

Haven't heard of any rivals or anything to him though, so he must be good at murder.

[phonics]

Any billionaire that you’d think could harm him ends up mysteriously disappearing for a few months ala the AliBaba guy. Meanwhile the entire American system is getting rail roaded by an autist nazi with a ketamine problem and Trump tickles his balls. I know who the real leader is. Silk and road time.

[phonics]

It’s a perfect summary of the hollowness at the soul of that country that Andrew Tate is granted more grace than the President of the country who got invaded.

[Giggles]

I was initially really hoping our limp wristed far left cunts of politicians wouldn’t get an invite for Patricks day this year, but I can’t wait for it now :drool:

[randomlegend]

That...interview? Debate? Is so fucking cringe. Zelensky is like an adult trying to deal with a couple of petulant toddlers. America is a fucking embarrassment.

[niko_cee]

This seems an odd critique from Trump:


Zelensky "overplayed his hand" and "wants to fight, fight, fight".

[niko_cee]

Good god, just seen the actual full spat.

Also, why didn't you wear a suit? I thought Vance was some sort of tech bro wannabe, who the fuck wears a suit?

[Disco]

This all goes back to that "beautiful phone call" in 2019.

Trump (and by extension Vance because he's a skinsuit with no agency of his own) both go on about gratitude and I think this is what it boils down to. Not something that Zelensky could do for the US as a state but what he was unwilling to do for Trump the person, Trump doesn't separate those two things and sees helping Ukraine as a personal favour so if there's nothing in it for him then he isn't interested. It makes the piss tape theory so much more compelling when considered in these terms.

[niko_cee]

Just started my 60 minute free pass for fox news.

Not sure I can make 15 minutes until the actual interview as weird right wing Matthew Perry whamps on to some botoxed 'females'.

[niko_cee]

One of them has just described DR Congo as one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

:face:

There is no hope. Maybe we'd be better off if these idiots just stuck to their own landmass.

[Lofty]

Yeah bit weird mugging Zelensky off as disrespecting the Oval Office by not wearing a suit: Musk is in there all the time not wearing a suit?

[phonics]

I think the key takeaway from the whole thing is the perfect illustration of Dunning-Kruger situation that society finds itself in.

If you support Trump theres 3 takeaways

To a dumb guy, they see Trump and Vance disrespecting Zelensky and think "America, fuck yeah"

To a dumb guy that thinks they're smart, they think that by acting tough that the guy who's been fighting a war against a country 5 times the size of him for years will cave.

To the actual smart guy, he's just hoping Trump forgets about it next week because the two other group outnumber them.

[niko_cee]

The final thought before the next batch of ads is please buy our fox news pickle ball [wtf?] set, only $70. Again, all hope is lost.

They actually said golden age. Are the aiming for a new roaring twenties?

[niko_cee]

Interview not that interesting.

Let's see what 11 minutes of adverts for drugs and/or their commentators reaction looks like.

[Disco]

I'm amazed they think Dr Congo is anything other than someone ICE should be rounding up any day now.

[John Arne]

I'm not really sure what Zelensky thinks he's doing, given he has no legs to stand on.

Come on, man. He's trying to save his country without giving up everything. Trump trying to strongarm him in public is fucking gross.

[Kikó]

The arrogance of Vance trying to tell Zelensky about the conditions in Ukraine from "seeing stories on TV". School yard bullies who are thick as fuck.

[niko_cee]

The whole have you said thank you, be grateful episode was just awful.

Zelensky could have dealt with it better, maybe, but it must be hard when you've got people just shouting lies at you. Surely his strongest line would have been to try to impress on them that whenever they signed that agreement with Russia [2019?] Trump was President and 3 years later Russia broke it. They need to know that if they sign a deal with them all again in 2025 then, in 4 years time, when Donald is no longer the President, AGAIN, that Russia won't do exactly the same again [it will] - but then Trump would probably get mad about you suggesting a future time when he wasn't going to be president anymore.

I still don't really understand how this all blowing up and them [The yanks] taking their ball home is really going to help them in the long run.

[Magic]

He should have called him President Krasnov.

[Revolution]

Can totally understand why JD Vance's mum chose taking heroin instead of spending time with that cunt

[Yevrah]

Having watched it all now (by which I mean including before it turned) it’s all on Vance. He’s massively out of his depth and can’t remotely cope with being schooled by Zelensky.

[Kikó]

The whole have you said thank you, be grateful episode was just awful.

Zelensky could have dealt with it better, maybe, but it must be hard when you've got people just shouting lies at you. Surely his strongest line would have been to try to impress on them that whenever they signed that agreement with Russia [2019?] Trump was President and 3 years later Russia broke it. They need to know that if they sign a deal with them all again in 2025 then, in 4 years time, when Donald is no longer the President, AGAIN, that Russia won't do exactly the same again [it will] - but then Trump would probably get mad about you suggesting a future time when he wasn't going to be president anymore.

I still don't really understand how this all blowing up and them [The yanks] taking their ball home is really going to help them in the long run.

To be fair, that part of Zelensky saying to Vance that Russia continually break every truce and agreement was the start of the argument.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think there's a slightly romantic tendency among some of the more 'realist' observers to view Russia as its 19th century imperial self, or as the Soviet Union at the peak of its powers, or as the great Russian bear, or whatever, rather than the kleptocrat gangster state that it actually is. There is absolutely no guarantee that anything about it will survive Putin's personal rule.

[AJ23]

Can totally understand why JD Vance's mum chose taking heroin instead of spending time with that cunt

:lol::lol::lol:

[Alex]

Can totally understand why JD Vance's mum chose taking heroin instead of spending time with that cunt

It had absolutely not occurred to me up until Googling his mother on the back of this that the Hillbilly Elegy film (which I did see at the time, not quite as bad as it was made out to be but still not very good at all) was based on his life. I knew it was based on a book by someone but I had not put two and two together since and realised that someone was him.

[Lewis]

Vance was saying that there needs to be a diplomatic solution to this. Zelensky said that there can't be any diplomacy with Russia, and suggested that Vance would realise this if he went to Ukraine and did the concerned face tour. Putting aside whether or not attempting to show the Vice President up in front of the media to bounce the Americans into open-ended security guarantees was a good idea, consider the implications of what he was saying. No diplomacy? How does he expect this to play out then? This returns us to the enduring question of how Ukraine wins without a general Russian collapse or a direct American intervention.

Him citing the Minsk Agreement[s] was a bit of a bold move as well given that all of the non-Russian parties have subsequently said that they never intended to abide by them, and that they were merely signed to allow Ukraine to build its forces up for renewed conflict against the separatists. Those statements have probably done more to put the Russians off a diplomatic solution than anything, and all stated at times when they would have been more open to one because Ukraine had a lot more fight left in it.

[randomlegend]

What is a "diplomatic solution"? Giving Russia some Ukrainian territory? What kind of precedent does that set? Russia just restarts the war every couple of years until the whole of Ukraine is signed over?

You're obviously far more knowledgeable than me on this, but is that not quite literally the appeasement policy circa WW2?

[niko_cee]

What Vance was saying was show fealty and do what you're told.

[randomlegend]

But Russia aren't going to pull out just because Ukraine bends the knee to the US, nor would it make Trump suddenly put in the required sanctions/military might/funding/whatever would be required to drive Russia out. So that's not really a diplomatic solution to actually ending the war.

If I'm perfectly honest, I think Trump is fully in Putin's pocket and went into yesterday with the decision to cut support already made. That show was created purely to give him an excuse.

The US' cyber security department have just been told to cease all work against Russia. Insane move unless you're on the same side.

[Yevrah]

What is a "diplomatic solution"? Giving Russia some Ukrainian territory? What kind of precedent does that set? Russia just restarts the war every couple of years until the whole of Ukraine is signed over?

What's the alternative? We keep pumping billions into this and (more importantly) Ukranians and Russians keep being killed at least until Putin dies?

Signing any land over is obviously unpalatable, but this is literally a war Ukraine cannot win (even with our and everyone else's continued support) so it strikes me that continuing to try to is just delaying the inevitable while costing thousands upon thousands of lives in the process.

[randomlegend]

Ok, but if you sign land over and then Russia tries for more, what then? When does it end?

[Lewis]

What is a "diplomatic solution"? Giving Russia some Ukrainian territory? What kind of precedent does that set? Russia just restarts the war every couple of years until the whole of Ukraine is signed over?

You're obviously far more knowledgeable than me on this, but is that not quite literally the appeasement policy circa WW2?

It doesn't set any precedent. It's simply what happens when one side wins a war and the other side loses it. Israel, Turkey, Azerbaijan... All friends of ours, all currently sitting on land that officially doesn't belong to them because they took it and nobody cares enough to do anything about it.

There will inevitably be some sort of diplomatic solution, even if it merely consists of some shell Ukrainian authority agreeing to things Russia wants. At the moment the solution might look something like Ukraine remaining neutral, having limits imposed on its armed forces, and losing slightly more land than Russia currently occupies. Further down the line, should its capacity to resist completely collapse, they might lose even more territory. What happens beyond that nobody knows. Russia could have another nibble at them, but doing so would be pointless if they have already achieved the above. Plus Poland might backstop rump Western Ukraine. They would be quite sensible to do so. It doesn't mean we should.

[niko_cee]

Isn't the thing here that 'diplomatic solution' and 'surrender and give me whatever stuff the other guy hasn't nicked' aren't really in the same part of the war outcomes Venn diagram?

Ukraine were clearly being somewhat willingly herded towards some kind of outcome away from their absolute terms until shit for brains and co started looking at it as some sort of mortgagee sale.

[niko_cee]

Other than as a bit of a fuck you to Donald, which seems insane, why is Zelensky meeting the king tomorrow?

[Disco]

I think there's a slightly romantic tendency among some of the more 'realist' observers to view Russia as its 19th century imperial self, or as the Soviet Union at the peak of its powers, or as the great Russian bear, or whatever, rather than the kleptocrat gangster state that it actually is. There is absolutely no guarantee that anything about it will survive Putin's personal rule.

I think there's some truth to that theory but not in the direction most people seem to think. Apart from about half an hour in 1945 when they got to fight half dead nazi pensioners and children they've always been a shit show, I'm yet to find a single competently executed military action in their entire history.

[Manc]

We (the West) should scale a full invasion.

[Spikey M]

Alright Keir.

[AJ23]

Waiting for the 'Russian lives matter' narrative to take off online, instigated by Trump and Putin.

What a mess.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If there's one thing the West and Russia have always agreed upon, it's that Russian lives very much do not matter.

[Magic]

Make Russia Great.

[Lofty]

Still lolling about them bringing in North Korean reinforcements only for the slav mercenaries to introduce them to tik tok and online porn, reducing their effectiveness to zero.

I read a similar thing about some recently contacted jungle tribes bemoaning since they were given the internet all the young men have sacked off firewood collecting etc in favour of watching big plastic american tits bouncing about all day.

[Spikey M]

From preindustrial to end-stage capitalism in the stroke of a wank. That's some zeitgeist shift.

[Yevrah]

US military aid to Ukraine now paused.

[Disco]

Rather ironic that a nation that wouldn't exist without foreign intervention is now led by people so venal and short sighted it no longer sees the value in doing the same thing itself.

[niko_cee]

Tariffs on too. Tanking the US economy and world standing in less than 2 months. What a guy.

Taking away the big stick is another thing which makes no sense to me. Both ends of the outcome scale are bad. Either Ukraine collapses and Russia gets what you wanted [all their stuff], or it doesn't, and people question the value of the big stick.

[Disco]

Presumably it ends up with four or five new nuclear powers, which can't be a great idea. He's chirping at the head of the Fed about interest rates now as well, if he ends up sacking him and putting another Richard Madeley type in charge then you suddenly have an economy in recession that nobody has any confidence in. It'll be about forty quid an egg by then and they'll have emptied the treasury bailing out farmers (again) and buying up all the wanker-coin. Amazing how quickly it can be done really, makes Liz Truss look like even more of an amateur.

[Magic]

So we're just "some random country" now. Lol.

[niko_cee]

Was trying to work out why the state of the union was no longer being used as a description [too woke / not woke enough?] and to be honest I still don't really understand.

Is he gunning to announce Ukraine's unconditional surrender as part of it?

It strikes me that if I were an American mining contractor or whatever then completely fucking over a country and then going in and overseeing the removal of all their stuff might be a somewhat fraught situation to be putting yourself in. Sounds like Iraq all over again. What could possibly go wrong?

[Magic]

Less all the allied countries that stood by you.

[Disco]

The first one in a term is never called State of the Union I don't think, a meaningless convention because it's the same thing in all but name.

[Disco]

I'm awake for the start of this so I thought I'd have a look, there's already been baseball caps, chewing gum, and chants of USA. They really do have zero class.

[Shindig]

Trump bringing the Tate brothers back only for them to be immediately hit with criminal investigations stateside. :D

[Bernanke]

Cutting off intelligence sharing now as well.

Literally couldn't go Russia's way more even if they had Medvedev installed as US president.

[randomlegend]

Literally couldn't go Russia's way more even if they had Medvedev installed as US president.

I mean they essentially do.

[Pepe]

Gasoline under $2.50 per gallon today though. :drool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Can someone tell me what the American national interest is here?

[Pepe]

I don't think that anyone could even come up with some sort of plausible scenario.

[Pepe]

Ok, how about: Europe steps up to help Ukraine, they beat the Russians. Trump calls e-victory because he forced the Europeans to step up and he saved Americans billions. Something like that?

[randomlegend]

Gasoline under $2.50 per gallon today though. :drool:

Does petrol work as a substitute for eggs?

[niko_cee]

Can someone tell me what the American national interest is here?

Isn't this all in the Trump-interest?

ie he said he'd end the war within 1 [100] day[s], the only way to do that is to force Ukraine to effectively capitulate. Another promise delivered.

As to the rest of it, there was a funny video going round of some Fox economics presenter woman losing her shit at some outside broadcast guy where a car dealer was saying how some truck was now going to cost 100k not 80k and so the person who had ordered it wasn't buying it. She went off one one about why Europeans don't drive giant American trucks . . .

[Ben]

Does petrol work as a substitute for eggs?

The COVID bleach crew could well think so.

[Pepe]

Does petrol work as a substitute for eggs?

I get a dozen of eggs per week ($6 this time) at most. We probably go through 15 gallons of gasoline per week. I know which one I prefer being cheap.

But to answer your question: they go well together.

[niko_cee]

15 gallons a week? That sounds a lot.

[Pepe]

It's the US, we drive everywhere unfortunately.

[John Arne]

$1.60 for dozen eggs here :drool:

[John Arne]

And the yolk powers our scooters.

[Pepe]

If the tariffs make my avocadoes expensive I will join the local protests.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They need eggs or they won't know how hot their car bonnets (you heard me, bonnets) are in Death Valley.

[Pepe]

A bonnet is a hat.

[niko_cee]

Whereas the American version has no headwear link whatsoever.

[randomlegend]

So is a hood, really.

[phonics]

They’ve bombed South Korea by mistake.

[John Arne]

It was the South Korean airforce, not the US. Although, I suspect that it is a matter of time...

[Kikó]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-plans-revoke-legal-status-ukrainians-who-fled-us-sources-say-2025-03-06/

Cunt.

[niko_cee]

Sounds a bit like an unintended consequence, which appears to be their government M O.

Got to move fast and break stuff.

Those could be 24,000 or 2,400,000 Ukrainians at the stoke of a key.

[Giggles]

More should do it, it's some scam.

[randomlegend]

How is people fleeing war a "scam"?

[Kikó]

He's properly thick.

[Bernanke]

All of this has to do incredible damage to the US military industrial complex ability to sell gear abroad. Who wants to own a fleet of F-35s or Patriot batteries if the US admin can just switch shit off remotely when they decide they need to bully you into submission in order to capitulate?

Fascinating that no Lockheed Martin lobbyist has shanked Keith Kellogg yet. Maybe they were never as powerful as they were made out to be.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Donaldinho threatening Russia with sanctions now. Maybe he just loves a threat?

[Yevrah]

Hang on, I thought 'we'd' already put large scale sanctions on Russia? If we have but there are other large scale sanctions that could have been employed what the fuck have we been doing for the last three years? I thought the only plan we had was:

1: Sanctions
2: ????
3. War ends

Jesus wept.

[Spikey M]

He's already bottled the Tariffs - no doubt due to Pepe's threats - against Mexico and Canada. Let's not make the mistake of believing anything the deranged cunt says. He makes his mind up on a minute by minute basis.

[Yevrah]

He's already bottled the Tariffs - no doubt due to Pepe's threats - against Mexico and Canada. Let's not make the mistake of believing anything the deranged cunt says. He makes his mind up on a minute by minute basis.

That was my first thought, but then it did make me wonder if there’s more we could have sanctioned. Hopefully BBC verify are on it as I type.

[Spikey M]

There might be, but as we all figured out pretty much immediately, in a globalist world the sanctions are pretty much useless and Scumlords - like our friend and national traitor, Jimmy - will just buy their Russian Tractor spark plugs from Uzbekistan or Tajikistan. Having to do business through a third party doesn't do a whole lot of harm to them.

Raiding Russian billionaires in Britain has made a difference, but only in terms of funding Ukraine. I doubt Putin gives much of a shit about Yuri Kalashnakovs impounded yacht.

[Lofty]

It was said last time round Trump is influenced by the last person he talked to, even if that is the exact opposite of what he was thinking prior. Maybe it's just more extreme now?

[niko_cee]

Hang on, I thought 'we'd' already put large scale sanctions on Russia? If we have but there are other large scale sanctions that could have been employed what the fuck have we been doing for the last three years? I thought the only plan we had was:

1: Sanctions
2: ????
3. War ends

Jesus wept.

I would imagine America could lean on Russia's biggest post sanctions supporters if they really wanted to, or, you know, nuke the oil price for lolz, which is probably something Donald would be in favour of. As he said himself though, his policy decisions are based on things that ONLY HE KNOWS so good luck trying to second guess them.

[Magic]

He's going after Japan now. :cool:

[Ben]

Are we the only ones to get away with this? Keir might not actually be all that bad.

[Ben]

With regards to Russia, have the Kremlin responded to Don yet? I guess the tone of that response will indicate how quickly they’re willing to settle this now Ukraine are back at the table.

[niko_cee]

The circle that needs squaring is that Russia will concede nothing, so the only way to force peace, as per the promise, is to essentially ensure a capitulation from Ukraine on Russian terms, but this will massively piss off / alienate / sour relations with Europe which might seem like a fun thing to do from a lol Make America Great Again perspective but in reality is really quite bad for America as Europe has a lot more to offer economically than the other side of the argument where Trump and hs crew think they more naturally sit. It almost feels like we're back at an immediately post-2008 place with 'America' thinking the only thing valuable in the world is the ability to dig stuff out of the ground, which really isn't the case.

[randomlegend]

Are we the only ones to get away with this? Keir might not actually be all that bad.

I'm not sure Donald not going after you is a marker of you being good.

[Spikey M]

Plus, what would he Tariff? Shortbread? We don't make anything.

[Shindig]

A quick google has our biggest exports as machinery (keep those sales numbers up, Jimmy), computers and precious metals.

[Giggles]

Occupancy.

[Disco]

He's already bottled the Tariffs - no doubt due to Pepe's threats - against Mexico and Canada. Let's not make the mistake of believing anything the deranged cunt says. He makes his mind up on a minute by minute basis.

The ones against Mexico were postponed because they made a really big graph with 'line go down' and Trumps name. It's that easy.

https://i.imgur.com/pXozMWh.jpeg

[Giggles]

The ones against Mexico were postponed because they made a really big graph with 'line go down' and Trumps name. It's that easy.

https://i.imgur.com/pXozMWh.jpeg
That sounds like something that exactly happened.

[Disco]

I'll bow to your limitless ignorance on the matter.

[phonics]

I liked the theory that Trump keeps applying and then lifting the Mexico tariffs just cause he likes Claudia and wants a chat. Like the playground bully knocking over sandcastles and pulling pigtails.

[Disco]

Starmer waved a big shiny Letter from the King under his nose and he loved it, he's comically easy to manipulate.

[phonics]

Trump on the Irish: “They’re a great people. And they voted for me in heavy numbers so I like them even more. You have to like them. You know, you’re not supposed to but you have to like them.”

"You're not supposed to but you have to" is one of the funniest things I've heard from a President.

edit: shit i got got. fake.

[niko_cee]

I know he's never been a fan of Wall Street, but tanking the American economy is another gambit I didn't necessarily have down on the first 100 days of Trump's presidency bingo card.

[Kikó]

No no, this is Biden's economy and his fault.

[Bernanke]

No no, this is Biden's economy and his fault.

Exactly, but the 2016 economy that he took over was all him.

[Bernanke]

This Tesla promotion event. :D

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/pB9RvN8GKeYd03XERTe5lQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTQyNw--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/usa_today_news_641/edf809ad0009f57c52751777bb533420

https://i.imgur.com/ToUvQYW.jpeg

Deeply unserious country.

[phonics]

Living in super Tory Malvern, the sheet amount of Teslas I see with bumper stickers along the lines of 'I bought it before I knew he was a nazi' has been surprising.

[Ben]

There's a group of Russian military guys who post on Telegram that have a lot of influence in the Kremlin, and safe to say they are not entertaining this US-negotiated ceasefire at all. If Putin agrees to the ceasefire, he'll have a bit of a shit storm in-house.

[Yevrah]

I’m bracing myself for a barrage of “Trump hasn’t done anything, as it won’t be lasting peace”.

[John Arne]

I’m bracing myself for a barrage of “Trump hasn’t done anything, as it won’t be lasting peace”.

The left will fully support a deal as long as Ukraine agree to it, and Russia abide it. If Trump can pull this off, all credit to the absolute cretin.

EDIT: Of course there are mongs on both sides who will still disagree with anything the "opposition" achieve.

[Kikó]

But what Ben said is the key thing, do Russia want to stop and will they abide by it. It's all good having Ukraine agree (which is an achievement considering they're giving up their land) but Russia are not a reliable partner.

[niko_cee]

This will have been a whole lot of theatre if Russia just say lol no thanks.

I assume they won't, and risk having angry Donald on the other team, but will rather 'agree' and then just go maximalist with their demands in establishing a peace which won't actually hold in the long run.

[Ben]

Yeah, I reckon Putin will agree eventually. They're just having to work out how to spin it domestically so the Z lot don't revolt.

[niko_cee]

I'm pretty sure he could 'sell' anything to the Russian people, I mean, what are they going to do? Also, all of our objectives have been met, even if they haven't, is what will be sold, so pretty easy sell to a feckless, disparate and entirely useless population.

Only problem will be how to go about a rapprochement with Europe to prevent their economy from further collapsing. Are Germany really going to just turn the gas taps back on?

Can't help but think that, in the long term, this peace will be enormously damaging to both the US and Russia.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Germany will be gagging to turn the gas taps back on. There are large men called Hans beating off at night to the thought of it as we speak.

[Yevrah]

But what Ben said is the key thing, do Russia want to stop and will they abide by it. It's all good having Ukraine agree (which is an achievement considering they're giving up their land) but Russia are not a reliable partner.

And it starts...

[Magic]

Germany will be gagging to turn the gas taps back on. There are large men called Hans beating off at night to the thought of it as we speak.

100%.

VW licking their lips.

[Yevrah]

Germany will be gagging to turn the gas taps back on. There are large men called Hans beating off at night to the thought of it as we speak.

Given that desire to turn the taps back on, one does have to wonder how Europe have been so utterly useless at dealing with this and a perma-tanned chimp who is widely regarded as incompetent can rock up and seemingly make more ground in a matter of weeks than everyone else combined has in 3 years.

[Kikó]

And it starts...

What starts?

[Bernanke]

Putin will agree then send a blue and yellow painted drone to Moscow after two weeks and claim the Ukrainians broke it.

[Spikey M]

Living in super Tory Malvern, the sheet amount of Teslas I see with bumper stickers along the lines of 'I bought it before I knew he was a nazi' has been surprising.

I hated the turbosperg before it was fashionable. :cool:

[Disco]

There's a group of Russian military guys who post on Telegram that have a lot of influence in the Kremlin, and safe to say they are not entertaining this US-negotiated ceasefire at all. If Putin agrees to the ceasefire, he'll have a bit of a shit storm in-house.

That's been his problem from the outset, the war was a solution to other issues and he will only want a way out that doesn't look like backing down. Either he manages to strike a deal and appease his detractors at home or he picks some things to whinge about and blames Ukraine for scuppering the deal so he can save face and carry on. Lucky for him that Trump is a moron, compromised, or both and will happily hand over whatever he asks for.

For anyone enjoying a good laugh at Musk watch the most awkward geek in the world struggle through the softest questions imaginable, I actually thought he was going to start crying at one point.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6DiMIJIvYw

[Boydy]

Remember when Prigozhin and his mercenaries were marching on Moscow and then they just stopped? That was mad.

[phonics]

All part of the plan mate.

[Magic]

Everything's computer. :D

[Ben]

Trump throwing a tantrum at being tariffed is pretty lol.

[Boydy]

1900187606819754029

[Ben]

Putin hasn't told US-Ukraine to fuck off straight out of the gate, which I kind of expected him to. Obviously he's making demands but considering the situation right now, he'll probably get most of them. There'll be a lot of to-and-fro but I reckon this ends in the next few months with Ukraine bent over a barrel.

[Magic]

Has Felon really just retweeted a post on Xitter blaming public sector workers for genocides?

[randomlegend]

Putin hasn't told US-Ukraine to fuck off straight out of the gate, which I kind of expected him to. Obviously he's making demands but considering the situation right now, he'll probably get most of them. There'll be a lot of to-and-fro but I reckon this ends in the next few months with Ukraine bent over a barrel.

That's how they always operate though. Don't say no, just hold the line on the demands you're making and wait for the other side to flinch and start negotiating with themselves.

[Bernanke]

Putin hasn't told US-Ukraine to fuck off straight out of the gate, which I kind of expected him to. Obviously he's making demands but considering the situation right now, he'll probably get most of them. There'll be a lot of to-and-fro but I reckon this ends in the next few months with Ukraine bent over a barrel.

The Western press reporting on it was crap compared to what he actually said in Russian, which effectively was an unchanged position of "of course we want peace, our fundamental problem is not having control of Ukraine. Solve it for me, and there'll be no war.".

[niko_cee]

White House press secretary on the suggestion that maybe the United States should give the Statue of Liberty back to France, presumably on the basis of them no longer wanting your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.


“And my advice to that unnamed low-level French politician would be to remind them that it’s only because of the United States of America that the French are not speaking German right now,”

“So, they should be very grateful to our great country.”

:happycry:

Should probably be thanking the Japanese really.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The historical illiteracy of the American ruling class is just one of the many attractive things about them.

[Pepe]

Undefeated back to back World War champions mate.

[Spikey M]

Shame about the Asian Competitions.

[John Arne]

My in-law would be speaking English if it wasn't for the Americans.