U.S. Presidential Election 2016 (Sponsored by Betty Croker's Hamburger Helper)

[Foe]

They're everywhere - surely we all see our HR teams push for them in our workplaces? Sometimes they make sense - for example having a sales team of solely middle aged white men in Leicester would strike me as a bad idea, other times I think people tie themselves in knots as to what they're actually trying to achieve.

I had a flat out argument with our VP of HR because she took the “a lot of people think what you’re doing is positive discrimination” to mean they were racist and needed educating. Didn’t even think upon it that their policy of “we need a better kpi so we need to actively recruit minority/lady etc” would not sit well with the majority of the population.

The previous VP actually told me they’d always choose the women/diverse candidate unless the white male was significantly better. Was not good words to hear.

Society and corporate firms seem intent on rectifying decades ago discrimination with discrimination.

[Pepe]

Separately and I’m not quite sure how to phrase this but I’ll try to kind of outline the point.

Why is the coloured woman a hire based on nothing but that but the old white man everyone agreed was dying and demented for the last 4 years not?

The old man won a primary election in his party, then a presidential election. During that same primary, the 'coloured woman,' as you call her, was doing so poorly that she stepped down before Iowa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_ primaries


As for why she was chosen as vice-president, let's see what some experts think:


Q. Why do you think Harris was chosen over other close contenders, including Susan Rice, Val Demmings, and Elizabeth Warren? What does Harris bring to the table that the others do not?

Stephens-Dougan: Harris was chosen over other contenders for a variety of factors. Biden already committed to naming a woman on the ticket, but he was facing increasing pressure to pick a Black woman as his running mate.


Q. What implications does this have for the Biden campaign? How might it influence voter turnout in November?

Stephens-Dougan: I think Harris was picked to help bring some energy to the ticket. Anyone other than a Black woman as the choice for VP would have underwhelmed many Black voters. It’s not that they would have defected to Trump en masse, but they would have been less enthusiastic and less likely to turn out. The Biden campaign is probably hoping that the Harris ticket will help to recreate the Obama coalition and turn out the Black vote.

https://spia.princeton.edu/news/qa-today-biden-chooses-kamala-harris-his-vice-president

It is not like they picked a cashier from Walmart or something, but if you really think that her being who she is did not play a role, then I do not know what to tell you.

[Pepe]

Let's also not forget what were the main requirements that Biden had when it came to choosing a Supreme Court judge:


"While I've been studying candidates' backgrounds and writings, I've made no decision except one: the person I nominate will be someone with extraordinary qualifications, character, experience and integrity - and that person will be the first Black woman ever nominated to the United States Supreme Court. It's long overdue, in my view," Biden said.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/retiring-us-justice-breyer-appear-with-biden-white-house-2022-01-27/#:~:text=%22While%20I've%20been%20studying,the%20U nited%20States%20Supreme%20Court.

[Spikey M]

What does any of that have to do with drink driving?

[phonics]

The old man won a primary election in his party, then a presidential election. During that same primary, the 'coloured woman,' as you call her, was doing so poorly that she stepped down before Iowa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_ primaries


As for why she was chosen as vice-president, let's see what some experts think:





https://spia.princeton.edu/news/qa-today-biden-chooses-kamala-harris-his-vice-president

It is not like they picked a cashier from Walmart or something, but if you really think that her being who she is did not play a role, then I do not know what to tell you.

See and this is kind of my point. I think Kamala Harris is awful.

But how many states would Biden have won if the various other DEI candidates (woman, woman, gay) didn't all suspiciously drop out when asked to by the party hierachy? Why was he chosen? If this is a world where DEI is all that matters, why not choose the DEI one?

[Pepe]

Because they decided to hold a vote and he won the vote. If you are suggesting that he won because the others dropped out, you got the causality wrong. They dropped out because they stood no chance.

[phonics]

Because they decided to hold a vote and he won the vote. If you are suggesting that he won because the others dropped out, you got the causality wrong. They dropped out because they stood no chance.

Lol, Bernie was winning and Obama told everyone to drop out and give all their electors to Biden so they couldn't split the vote. This is a well known fact.

[Pepe]

If you are suggesting that there was some favoritism in the party towards him, then I would say that maybe there was. But favoritism towards him for whatever reason does not negate the fact that there was favoritism towards Harris as vice-president because 'DEI.' There are many types of favoritisms out there.

EDIT: I liked Bernie Sanders, but he would have won fuck all.

[phonics]

Oh my word you’re ignoring the core point. Biden was considered the one to run not because he would make the best president or they’d have run the same play and chosen Warren or Buttigieg but the fact that Biden was an old white man made him the best bet to win. He was chosen for his ethnicity and his gender in the same way Harris was.

[Spikey M]

Warren and Buttigieg look pretty white to me. And Buttigieg looks male too. Reaching.

[Lewis]

Wasn't he just the most recognisable person in the field and not an off-putting freak for an election they convinced themselves was life or death? I suspect if it was anyone other than Trump they wouldn't have dug him up to begin with.

[Pepe]

You seem to completely ignore the fact that a primary election was held. He was the best bet to win because he won the primary, not because 'old white man.' You make it sound like Harris and Buttcheeks and Warren were neck to neck with him. They were not, not even close. You also won't find quotes of the Democrats czars (whoever you think they are) say 'we need the candidate to be old and white.' You can find quotes of Biden saying 'The next justice must be woman and black.

[phonics]

Warren and Buttigieg look pretty white to me. And Buttigieg looks male too. Reaching.

Warrens a woman and Buttigieg is gay but thanks for proving my earlier point that people see 'DEI' and think 'N-word'

[Spikey M]

Warrens a woman and Buttigieg is gay but thanks for proving my earlier point that people see 'DEI' and think 'N-word'

Already acknowledged her gender and you omitted "straight" from your post, you absolute fucking fanny.

[Pepe]

thanks for proving my earlier point that people see 'DEI' and think 'N-word'

In the US DEI literally favors African-Americans. That is not what people think, that is their goal. Want me to show you emails from Deans directly saying that African-Americans should be hired over everyone else (including Africans?)

As quoted, Biden said the justice should be a woman and black. How do you explain that?

[phonics]

I wasn't sure I had to point out that Biden isn't gay but ah well.

I'm not saying that's all there is. I'm saying it's a factor. But as can be seen from the above reaction, it's weird that you can say 'this persons ethnicity and gender is a reason why they were picked' if they're black or female but if you say the same thing for being white and male being a reason then you're just a loon.

[Spikey M]

I wasn't sure I had to point out that Biden isn't gay but ah well.



Sure. You might want to point out that some obscure American politician is gay though, dickhead. I don't know why I repeatedly make the mistake of thinking you're someone that can have an honest conversation.

[phonics]

As quoted, Biden said the justice should be a woman and black. How do you explain that?

It's called pandering for votes.

[phonics]

Sure. You might want to point out that some obscure American politician is gay though, dickhead. I don't know why I repeatly make the mistake of thinking you're someone that can have an honest conversation.

I did.


But how many states would Biden have won if the various other DEI candidates (woman, woman, gay) didn't all suspiciously drop out when asked to by the party hierachy? Why was he chosen? If this is a world where DEI is all that matters, why not choose the DEI one?

Said candidates who dropped out were Elizabeth Warren, Amy Kloubachar and Pete Buttigieg.

[Pepe]

I didn't say it only because she is black and female, I said it because there is evidence that those are the reasons she was chosen. I wouldn't say Obama was a DEI pick, because he wasn't. Unless you have evidence that the main reason Biden was chosen is because of him being white and male, then yes I think that you are a loon.

[Pepe]

Wasn't he just the most recognisable person in the field and not an off-putting freak for an election they convinced themselves was life or death? I suspect if it was anyone other than Trump they wouldn't have dug him up to begin with.

He seemed a strange choice to me at the time, but clearly they were right since he won. Lol at what happened after.

[Spikey M]

Stop trying Pepe. He's an absolute mong, completely incapable of honest discussion.

[phonics]

I didn't say it only because she is black and female, I said it because there is evidence that those are the reasons she was chosen. I wouldn't say Obama was a DEI pick, because he wasn't. Unless you have evidence that the main reason Biden was chosen is because of him being white and male, then yes I think that you are a loon.

I think the idea of running a woman against Trump after the Hilary disaster was a major factor and even the very concept of trying to run a gay guy in America wouldn't be countenanced.

Obama wasn't a pick. He was the Bernie of that primary. The Clinton campaign unleashed some of the most insanely racist shit you'll ever see in political campaigning.

[phonics]

Stop trying Pepe. He's an absolute mong, completely incapable of honest discussion.

I say 'Heres something I'm thinking' and everyone goes IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM BEING WHITE OR MALE and I'm the one incapable of honest discussion. You just got mad at me for not telling you one of the candidates was gay despite telling you he was gay two posts earlier. How am I the dishonest one?

[Spikey M]

I say 'Heres something I'm thinking' and everyone goes IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM BEING WHITE OR MALE and I'm the one incapable.

You called me a racist for not knowing someone's sexuality. That's what just happened.

[Lewis]

In the US DEI literally favors African-Americans. That is not what people think, that is their goal. Want me to show you emails from Deans directly saying that African-Americans should be hired over everyone else (including Africans?)

As quoted, Biden said the justice should be a woman and black. How do you explain that?

https://i.imgur.com/wsinQWG.jpeg

At what point can you ask for a non-black doctor?

[phonics]

You called me a racist for not knowing someone's sexuality. That's what just happened.

My language may have been careless there but I wasn't referring directly to you in that case and if that's how it came across I apologise. I was more referring to the larger movement. Its a common thing now where they just use DEI in place of what they actually want to say. It was a large theme of that Bridge in Baltimore that collapese after the ship crashed into it.

https://i.imgur.com/UszeXl4.jpeg

Once again I apologise if it came across as me saying you were implying said usage.

[phonics]

At what point can you ask for a non-black doctor?


Can we get a % of applicants in there please?

[phonics]

So I thought I'd check out Lewis graph.

Only version of it I could find is a Reddit post from a deleted account over 6 years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/8w52mx/med_school_acceptance_rates_vs_race_vs_stats/

So I did some searching and the closest to proving this was: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/new-chart-illustrates-graphically-racial-preferences-for-blacks-and-hispanics-being-admitted-to-us-medical-schools/

Which is from the AEI. A Right Wing Lobby paid to pump out this dog shit and its 8 years old.

So I searched for actual studies: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10720109/

Which shows that rather than ethnicity, your main issues to being accepted are being poor or an immigrant.

Average acceptance rate was 44.5%. 'Under represented people' was 44.3%.

Spikey, you are not racist. Lewis is and he is the type to try push this DEI stuff because it makes him feel better about his own failures to succeed.

[Lewis]

That article advocates for a more 'holistic' admissions process and still states in the summary conclusion that 'individuals from racially and ethnically UiM backgrounds have favorable odds of acceptance when controlling for MCAT and GPA'. Did you even read it? Elsewhere (https://www.shemmassianconsulting.com/blog/medical-school-acceptance-rates-by-race), we can find that the average GPA for successful applicants in 2023-24 was as follows:

Asian: 3.83
White: 3.8
Non-US citizens: 3.77
Hispanic: 3.66
Black: 3.59

So yeah, poor people and immigrants battling away; but they are still letting blacks and Hispanics in with lower marks.

[Lewis]

Also, the 'Right Wing Lobby paid to pump out this dog shit' takes its statistics from the Association of American Medical Colleges. If you can explain how they mis-used the original data or what has changed in the years since I will ask them to publish it for you.

[niko_cee]

On the off chance that Donald doesn't win is he just going to keep trying forever? Would the Republicans be able to move on from him?

I see some have touted civil war as the preferred response. :face:

With all the Project25 or whatever it is business it does all feel a bit [I]Handmaid's Tale.

[Pepe]

I did see some 'Trump 202X' shirts out there.

[randomlegend]

Trump casually claiming he'll end democracy if he gets elected. Nothing to worry about.

[Gray Fox]

Hasn't he also said he's going to pardon himself of everything, give himself immunity and grant the power to assassinate anyone who is deemed a threat to the President?

[Lofty]

He never finished his claims from last time round I wouldn't be too worried.

[Boydy]

1830700966942802417

Can't imagine anyone in Labour talking like this these days. I'm actually envious of the US's politics now. Fuck me.

[Ben]

I saw an article on FT just after he was nominated and the writer was saying how the VP candidate has never swayed a campaign other than Palin fucking things up in 2008. The guy went on to say Walz might actually be the first VP to force a win.

[Spikey M]

1830700966942802417

Can't imagine anyone in Labour talking like this these days. I'm actually envious of the US's politics now. Fuck me.

Envious of what? It's all just words the same as it is here. They've been in power for the last 4 years. What's happened? The same thing that's happened across the west. It doesn't matter who's elected, you get the same shit either way.

[Jimmy Floyd]

UK cultural well is so poisoned now that you'll never see that kind of freewheeling rhetoric on either side, meaningless or otherwise. The only way to do political rhetoric in the UK is to tick certain boxes and maybe make one salient point that isn't the bit you want clipped up for the news.

[Boydy]

Envious of what? It's all just words the same as it is here. They've been in power for the last 4 years. What's happened? The same thing that's happened across the west. It doesn't matter who's elected, you get the same shit either way.

They're genuinely doing things better than us. They actually do government investment in stuff these days - look at Biden's Inflation Reduction Act. Whereas we're going for more of the same austerity shite that has worked so well for the past 14 years. At least it's got a red rosette on it this time though!

[Jimmy Floyd]

They also have a lot more wiggle room and options due to the currency, and due to the elite brains of every country in the world being desperate to emigrate there, but indeed they do take a proactive approach to life rather than scudding through trying to do government as charity collections for the NHS.

[Boydy]

Yeah, they do have some advantages that we don't have but there seems to be very little ambition for the UK not to be shit any more. It's managed decline from here on in.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Probably because it isn't shit for the upper middle class (and above) and so why would you spend your life and squander your power striving to improve the lot of the racist white underclass.

[Yevrah]

The way they're angling this budget I think it's very much about to be shit for the middle class, or at least a lot worse than it's been for some time.

[Lewis]

The last decade-plus of relative American economic success has been almost entirely down to fracking, which we banned because pensioners and Liberal Democrats complained about it. Oh well.

[Yevrah]

It's that sort of shit and legalising weed etc. that we really need to be taking a long hard look at to get us out of this mess rather than just borking the pension plans of those in their 40s.

[Boydy]

We should legalise coke too. It's absolutely everywhere already and just think of the productivity gains.

[Lofty]

The last decade-plus of relative American economic success has been almost entirely down to fracking, which we banned because pensioners and Liberal Democrats complained about it. Oh well.

Yeah the plan that fucked all the drinking water seems a good idea in a country miniscule compared to a single state of theirs.

The main reason they are economically bulletproof is because they are the go to safe currency, something Thick Lizzie didn't account for with her economic reforms. You can pull mad moves when you are the defacto global currency, it's not such a good idea when everyone can abandon yours for the safety of the dollar.

[Pepe]

You should just adopt the dollar as your currency and quintuple your income overnight then.

[Pepe]

I'm not a big fan of legalizing weed myself, but pursuing cheap energy should be a top priority for any government.

[Yevrah]

Just an example and I’m not really fussed either way but maintaining the status quo while raising taxes is not going to bring about economic growth.

[Pepe]

Agreed. Either you create/produce/extract stuff or you are screwed.

[niko_cee]

You should just adopt the dollar as your currency and quintuple your income overnight then.

Only if they agree to put the king's head on it.

[Boydy]

I'm not a big fan of legalizing weed myself, but pursuing cheap energy should be a top priority for any government.
We've had a ban on onshore wind farms for like the last ten years.


At least that's being scrapped now, I think.

[Pepe]

Only if they agree to put the king's head on it.

Make Trump the king and a deal might be had.

[John Arne]

Trump's new/old hair :wub:

[John Arne]

“In Springfield, they’re eating the dogs, the people that came in, they’re eating the cats,” said Trump. “They’re eating the pets of the people that live there.”


:D

[Gray Fox]

Taylor Swift has endorsed Harris. If he wasn't already, he's now cooked.

[Ben]

Impressive to fumble the ball that badly. The assassination attempt had it sealed. Bookies had him around 2/5 at one point.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The assassination attempt had absolutely no effect on the polls (may have done at the bookies if idiots were firing their money over the counter with similar accuracy to the shooter). None of that stuff ever does. Reminds me of when Jo Cox got murdered during the Brexit campaign and everyone thought that would swing it for Remain. No effect at all.

Trump has a hard ceiling and will lose.

[Spikey M]

Taylor Swift has endorsed Harris. If he wasn't already, he's now cooked.

Yeah, I'm not sure the Venn diagram of Taylor Swift fans and Donald Trump fans overlaps at all.

[niko_cee]

Perhaps not, but then venn diagram of her fans and young people who might not otherwise vote could be massive. Unless they're all underage.

[Gray Fox]

The YUTEs who tend to not bother on voting day might be more inclined to do so if their cult leader says they should.

[Shindig]

She endorsed Hilary, I'm sure of it.

[Lofty]

She did but a lot of her fans that were too young then can probably vote now.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There's a reason TS dropped a thing about early voting into her message. Not her first rodeo. Literally, I would have thought.

[hfswjyr]

It's all about the 'battleground' states anyway isn't it? Which leads to the bizarre question of how popular Taylor Swift is in a particular set of states.

[Yevrah]

I'm amused at the idea that Trump has somehow fucked it, with the elephant that has left the room still being avoided. He's just carried on doing what he always does, being Trump. The difference now is that the Democrats actually have someone competent running, rather than a dementia patient.

[Bernanke]

The assassination attempt had no effect because 1. everyone outside of the MAGA cult hates the dude and wouldn't have been upset if the bullet went 10 cm to the right and 2. the shooter was a basement dwelling white dude with no way to spin it being a democrat hit job.

On the debate:

1833708370974695574

[Yevrah]

As for celebrity endorsements, my gut is that they have almost no sway whatsoever. I've seen no actual research on this, so if someone can show me evidence of where they have (in an actual country) then I'll change my mind.

[Bernanke]

Swift feels like the only one who could be an exception to the rule, but you would think her fanbase is already made up of 99.9% liberals.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Page 3 models telling people who to vote for back in the day surely had some pull.

[Yevrah]

Page 3 models telling people who to vote for back in the day surely had some pull.

I could believe it used to work, before the internets completely destroyed the mystique that celebrities once had. Once that was lost and it became clear as day that they're just people and in some cases, slightly deranged people, or worse, people who cover up/turn a blind eye to abuse etc. no one cares what they have to say.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I only voted Labour at the last election because June Sarpong endorsed them. So it must have some effect.

[Shindig]

You should watch Jesse Ventura’s Conspiracy Theories. June’s an advisor on that.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The Body?

I would never in a million years have guessed Ventura and Sarpong had crossed paths, let alone made a TV show together.

[Shindig]

It shocked me too. It's like Zane Lowe being a Bounty Hunter.

[Lofty]

I remember some TOWIE clowns on the front of The Sun proclaiming the tories were 'the reem ticket'.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1834310759557316792

:cool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1834995678113599539

:lol:

[Spikey M]

:D

Please let him win. The west is fucked anyway, our downfall can atleast be funny.

[Magic]

Has someone tried to kill him again?

[Lofty]

Trump's campaign is failing, he said a load of weird shit the last week, suddenly he's ripe for assasination again.

[Shindig]

Trump 'two or three' holes behind shooter - official

Makes it sound like he was trying catch up in strokes. :D

[Yevrah]

The West really needs to start getting its shit together. Just laughable at the moment.

[wullie]

This has the potential to finish Tenacious D off permanently.

[niko_cee]

Now I'm no operational security expert etc, but aren't there a few glaringly obvious issues with saying:


We're being told the Secret Service's protection of the former president Donald Trump always stays one hole ahead of Trump when he is golfing.


Like, one should they be saying this and two, what about assassins trying to 'play through', as it were?

[Shindig]

It's so he can plant a better positioned ball.

[Magic]

Lol so they saw an AK47 sticking out of a bush and started firing at it? Slap stick.

[niko_cee]

This feels a bit more like that lunatic that 'tried to kill' the queen with a crossbow than a genuine assassination attempt, which in turn makes it feel all a bit set up #konspiracykiko.

[Kikó]

It's Kamala Harris who's trying to kill him.

[Kikó]

Or the Haitians.

[Magic]

Boris tried this when he faked the COVID death thing and it worked a fucking treat. No wonder he keeps doing it.

[niko_cee]

Watching the Trumpheist thing on C4, if the vice president has the powers that Professor Crackpot suggested they did, is the ultimate bantz outcome of the election that Trump 'wins' but fraud is alleged and Harris uses said sweeping powers to reject his electors, in turn seeing her win? I assume in situation where the vice president is a candidate someone else does that job, but those are minor details.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1841291195919606165

:D

dots

[niko_cee]

Whilst perusing 538 I noticed the democrat senate candidate in Missouri is called Lucas Kunce (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Kunce). Of course, he tries to make out that it is pronounced KOONTS. Not having it Lucas.

[Bernanke]

I feel like Elon fully throwing his hat in with Donald at this time is just another clue that the man is a fucking moron.

[Bernanke]

1842716153808040021

:D dots

[Kikó]

https://www.threads.net/@aaron.rupar/post/DAw5c1sPaAH/

He looks demented.

[Clunge]

He looks a lot like Mads Mikkelsen as Le Chiffre. Almost uncanny.

[Spikey M]

Had he confirmed he's autistic? Because he definitely is.

[Magic]

Yeah look at all those big crowd stage bound autistic people. Real attention seekers.

[Spikey M]

Yeah, that's the autistic trait I was talking about. Top work champ.

[Pepe]

Between Musk's jumps and Trump's dances, it must have been a quite excellent party.

[Lofty]

Yeah look at all those big crowd stage bound autistic people. Real attention seekers.

You spent enough of your time seeking it on here.

[Dquincy]

I feel like Elon fully throwing his hat in with Donald at this time is just another clue that the man is a fucking moron.

Found a Kamala fan.

[Bernanke]

Yep. :rasta:

[Bernanke]

1847289528328847627

The winning message in the final stretch.

[Dquincy]

I really hope Kamela doesn't win. She comes across terribly, and a little unhinged. Which is saying something when you consider her opposition.

I've seen a few polls today, many contradicting each other, so not a clue who is winning.

[Magic]

Trump will win, and WW3 will begin for real.

[Shindig]

You're expecting a man with two recent assassination attempts to greenlight that?

[Ben]

Trump will end things in Ukraine pretty quickly I suspect. He will pull funding, then Zelenskyy will realise he can't sustain it with EU support alone and they'll sue for peace.

Iran might be fucked though.

[Kikó]

I really hope Kamela doesn't win. She comes across terribly, and a little unhinged. Which is saying something when you consider her opposition.

I've seen a few polls today, many contradicting each other, so not a clue who is winning.

She really doesn't.

[Giggles]

She mainly comes across as incredibly thick.

[Lofty]

Lizzo saying they want to turn the US into Detroit everywhere at their conference is a bit mental :D

[Pepe]

Compared to the competition, Harris appears von Neumann level smart.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1847788934597689760

Trump getting support from Antonio Brown, the most unhinged former NFL player with brain damage.

GG Kamala.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg78ljxn8g7o

This is legal? Surely it's buying votes.

[Shindig]

Is it only illegal if it comes directly from Trump's campaign coffers?

[Dquincy]

She really doesn't.

Do you think she would be a successful president?

[randomlegend]

The fact there are people on here who said they'd vote for Trump over Biden is truly astonishing, seeing the absolute insanity coming out of him on a daily basis.

[igor_balis]

Ye the democrats fucking suck, ranging from incompetent to outright corrupt, biden seemed legitimately senile, kamala entirely uninspiring and I doubt likely to be any better than someone like fucking Hilary Clinton, yet Trump is still clearly a far worse outcome.

It's like a choice between the CEO of Univlever and skeletor ffs.

[Spikey M]

Trump is worse than Kamala, sure. Worse than a Senile old man with a shadow team running the show from behind the scenes? Who knows. Voting for Biden would be more mental than voting for Trump.

[Raoul Duke]

I cannot fathom how anyone with a single working braincell in their head considers voting for Trump. Genuine insanity

[Spikey M]

I cannot fathom how anyone with a single working braincell in their head considers voting for a senile man without a single working brain cell. Genuine insanity.

[igor_balis]

I cannot fathom how anyone with a single working braincell in their head considers voting for a senile man without a single working brain cell. Genuine insanity.

Mate your both sides are as bad as eachother horseshoe theory shit is such predictable nonsense at this point. You know why I think they call it the horseshoe theory?? Because you'd have to have been hit with a horseshoe to believe it!!! :D :D lol

[Lewis]

For all of his shit-talking about Mexicans and whatever else, I don't recall the actual policies of the Trump administration being particularly radical, except maybe insofar as he managed to keep America out of some of the more stupid wars that were flashpoints at the time. His lasting impact was being in place to appoint a bunch of conservative Supreme Court positions, which even the house-trained 'moderate' Republicans would more than likely had to have done whilst also getting more involved in the stupid wars.

[Spikey M]

Mate your both sides are as bad as eachother horseshoe theory shit is such predictable nonsense at this point. You know why I think they call it the horseshoe theory?? Because you'd have to have been hit with a horseshoe to believe it!!! :D :D lol

it's not horseshoe theory to think that a mong that says stupid shit but delivered very little during his first run as president, would probably do the same again, and to believe that giving an already senile old man a second term would have been ridiculous. Thankfully Kamala is now a relatively sensible option and will obviously win, uninspiring though she may be.

On the subject of horseshoe theory, my understanding of it is that it's the belief that the far left and the far right are essentially the same. I don't really have an issue with that, other than it frames the issue of Authoritarian vs Libertarian incorrectly. Right or Left isn't the issue, Authoritarianism is. Stalin and Hitler had quite a bit in common, but not because left becomes right or right becomes left, but because they both believed they could assert their political positions by force.

Thank you for attending my TED talk.

[randomlegend]

I cannot fathom how anyone with a single working braincell in their head considers voting for a senile man without a single working brain cell. Genuine insanity.

But Trump is also a senile old man. He spent 45 minutes standing swaying to music the other day at his own rally because he completely lost the plot and couldn't speak. Today he's said that schools are performing sex change operations on children without their parents' permission during the school day, so they leave the house one gender and come home the other.

It's absolutely incredible he's managed to get people even considering voting for him when he's clearly genuinely insane. If any other candidate said a single one of the hundred certifiable things a day he says, the thought of voting for them wouldn't even enter your mind.

[Pepe]

For all of his shit-talking about Mexicans and whatever else, I don't recall the actual policies of the Trump administration being particularly radical, except maybe insofar as he managed to keep America out of some of the more stupid wars that were flashpoints at the time. His lasting impact was being in place to appoint a bunch of conservative Supreme Court positions, which even the house-trained 'moderate' Republicans would more than likely had to have done whilst also getting more involved in the stupid wars.

The whole tariff stuff sounds quite stupid, but then the economic policies being suggested on the other side are not any better.

[Dquincy]

But Trump is also a senile old man. He spent 45 minutes standing swaying to music the other day at his own rally because he completely lost the plot and couldn't speak. Today he's said that schools are performing sex change operations on children without their parents permission during the school day, so the leave the house one gender and come home the other.

It's absolutely incredible he's managed to get people even considering voting for him when he's clearly genuinely insane.

I thought he was dancing because they had to stop the event whilst seeing to someone in the crowd having a medical emergency.

I'd love to see Trump back in charge. Would be hilarious.

[Spikey M]

But Trump is also a senile old man. He spent 45 minutes standing swaying to music the other day at his own rally because he completely lost the plot and couldn't speak. Today he's said that schools are performing sex change operations on children without their parents permission during the school day, so the leave the house one gender and come home the other.

It's absolutely incredible he's managed to get people even considering voting for him when he's clearly genuinely insane.

Trump says ridiculous shit all the time. He does so because he is the anti-establishment pick (despite being the shadow nomination in a 2 party system). They're eating the cats. They're building mosques out of bibles. What ev's.

Is he actually senile? I dunno. He's the right age for it and I haven't seen the footage you mention, so I'm not going to say he isn't.

[randomlegend]

Trump says ridiculous shit all the time. )

And that somehow makes it OK. It's incredible.

[randomlegend]

Would I vote for someone who said something completely mental once? Of course not.

Would I vote for someone who says mental shit every single day? You bet!

[Spikey M]

And that somehow makes it OK. It's incredible.

Of course it does, he's a populist trying to get elected. Fear and hate are the goto approaches. Are you somehow thinking I want Trump to win? I don't. I just don't think it would be the end of the world. It wasn't last time. It won't be this time. And nor will it be when he loses to Ms Harris, who will also do basically nothing.

[Spikey M]

Would I vote for someone who said something completely mental once? Of course not.

Would I vote for someone who says mental shit every single day? You bet!

Yeah, that's definitely what I'm saying m8.

Jesus, politics becoming a team sport is exhausting. Everyone has become Phonics on Arsenal.

[randomlegend]

I can't remember if you were one of the people saying you'd vote for him, but you're the one who bit at me lolling at those people, so naturally I assumed that meant you were. I would also assume you would vote for the person you want to win.

[randomlegend]

Yeah, that's definitely what I'm saying m8.

Jesus, politics becoming a team sport is exhausting. Everyone has become Phonics on Arsenal.

It's true though. If an ostensibly normal (by political standards) candidate said one of the mental things Trump says you'd immediately lol the idea of voting for them out the room.

[Spikey M]

It's true though. If an ostensibly normal (by political standards) candidate said one of the mental things Trump says you'd immediately lol the idea of voting for them out the room.

He is a normal candidate, just a normal candidate in exceptionally polarised times. I really don't know how I can make my point any clearer, but I'll try using TTH posters, then I'm out.

This is Henry vs Harrold. Some TTHers are super-woke and are going to vote for Henry. Some TTHers are super unwoke (asleep) and will vote for Harrold. So here they are, spouting the ridiculousness their voters want to hear. Then there's the other 50% of TTH voters that are standing with their hands on their hips trying to decide who says less shit that they disagree with, and they'll end up voting for Henry. Probably.

And if they don't, then what? Basically nothing, the same as last time. Because politicians don't do much these days. We have a finely balanced world order and it is far more powerful than any poster, even Harrold. It's why our board has Mods (Lords) and Admins (Senators). Because sometimes a Harrold will get through and when they do, they'll achieve nothing. The same as Harrold did last time.

My argument isn't that Harrold's gonna Make TTH Great Again. My argument Is that he's just a politician saying the shit his voters want to hear. And they are very retarded voters. So here we are.

[randomlegend]

He is a normal candidate

:lol:

[Spikey M]

Phonics on Arsenal.

[Lewis]

Is there any footage of Harris articulating any sort of coherent message about anything? It's all just vibes, but apparently making wibbling speeches is worse than things like throwing the southern border open and taking reparations seriously.

[randomlegend]

Is there any footage of Harris articulating any sort of coherent message about anything? It's all just vibes, but apparently making wibbling speeches is worse than things like throwing the southern border open and taking reparations seriously.

I'd imagine the things people think are "worse" are things like him being a career criminal, almost certainly being a rapist, trying to incite an insurrection, and announcing he'll try to dismantle democracy if he gets back into power.

It's just funny that the absolute mongs who somehow have the wool pulled over their eyes by Trump were seething their tits off about how Biden was unfit for office when he made a "wibbling speech, but when Trump is doing it on the daily it's absolutely fine.

[Lewis]

What was the democracy dismantling announcement? I missed that. When Democrats talk about ending the electoral college and packing the Supreme Court every other day is that the same or is that different?

Insurrection man grow up.

[randomlegend]

Insurrection man grow up.

Yes, that's what he tried to do. The fact he's managed to normalise such insane behaviour is incredible. Can you imagine if a politician encouraged rioters to attack parliament over here? Or tried to prevent the election outcome being ratified? And then was in the running again?

But he's managed to get people shrugging about it.

[-james-]

Trump being the most likely next president is no more or less lol than it was the first time round. Yet here we are. Makes you think.

[randomlegend]

It's definitely more lol by several orders of magnitude.

[Lewis]

Yes, that's what he tried to do. The fact he's managed to normalise such insane behaviour is incredible. Can you imagine if a politician encouraged rioters to attack parliament over here? Or tried to prevent the election outcome being ratified? And then was in the running again?

But he's managed to get people shrugging about it.

We had three years of most of our politicians trying to stop a referendum result being enacted, and America had four years of Trump's opponents claiming his victory was down to foreign interference with no evidence. Where are all of those people now? You probably voted for one of them to be Prime Minister.

[Shindig]

Trump did push the stolen election narrative pretty hard. But then we have the left moaning so hard that two Republican gimps tried to shoot him. Everything is extremes now.

[randomlegend]

America had four years of Trump's opponents claiming his victory was down to foreign interference with no evidence.

https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/dl


The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion.

[Lewis]

Does that say that his victory was down to foreign interference?

[randomlegend]

Desperate.

[Lewis]

You have ignored relevant questions and then misread what I wrote.

Spikey owes phonics an apology.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Russia interferes in every election worldwide, doesn't mean it has much effect. They've not even been able to win a Moldovan EU referendum ffs.

[randomlegend]

You have ignored relevant questions and then misread what I wrote.

Spikey owes phonics an apology.

I haven't misread anything. You've just mistaken me for someone who is interested in typing pages to argue with someone who's taken up a patently ludicrous position like "Trump is a normal presidential candidate".

It's like arguing with a flat earther. There is no payoff. It's much better to just point and laugh.

[Spikey M]

You're either misreading or misunderstanding, it's one of the 2.

[randomlegend]

I'm not. He knows full well he's taking up a disingenuous position so he can make a "bofe sides" argument which even at face value is not remotely equivalent.

Meanwhile Normal Presidential Candidate normally talks about a dead golfers cock.

[niko_cee]

So was that whole McDonalds thing just secret service agents/Trump campaign people driving through the drive thru to get served by him? I know these hard hat high vis set-ups are usually a bit stilted but that one seems extra daft.

[randomlegend]

Normal.

[Yevrah]

One might even say, all part of the plan…

[Lofty]

What actually happens if Trump wins? Cuts funding to Ukraine, pardons himself, appoints all his family to plum positions then goes back to embezzling as much as he can whilst playing golf.

He's more gone than he was last time but he is still just a con man, I don't think he believes what he tells the idiots. Like locking up Hillary, never happened. Just an orange Andrew Wakefield on a conspiracy cruise saying vaccines are evil when the original con was supposed to be buy his vaccine instead, just sinks his length into Elle Macpherson and looks at his bank balance to sleep soundly at night.

[niko_cee]

One of the all time great cons that.

[Lewis]

I haven't misread anything. You've just mistaken me for someone who is interested in typing pages to argue with someone who's taken up a patently ludicrous position like "Trump is a normal presidential candidate".

It's like arguing with a flat earther. There is no payoff. It's much better to just point and laugh.

Your reasons for him being abnormal are either things he hasn't done, or things that other people have done in polite language so you either think they're alright or hadn't considered abnormal. You are hysterical, and everything you are accusing others of being.

[randomlegend]

Your reasons for him being abnormal are either things he hasn't done, or things that other people have done in polite language so you either think they're alright or hadn't considered abnormal.

Just because you say things don't mean they are true.

Nobody else has told their Vice President to refuse to ratify an election result.

Your "equivalent" examples are not remotely equivalent. Which you know.

[niko_cee]

I see the spastics in charge of the Labour Party have now run afoul of the Trump campaign with their idiotic exhortation for people to go campaigning for Harris. Thought Thornberry was quite good on the issue last week when she was confronted with it last week.

[Lewis]

Just because you say things don't mean they are true.

Nobody else has told their Vice President to refuse to ratify an election result.

Your "equivalent" examples are not remotely equivalent. Which you know.

I think Trump and the referendum refuseniks were equally cretinous. You refuse to accept the similarities because you agree with one and not the other. That is fine, but it just makes you sound like a wally.

Elsewhere, sexual assault allegations have been swirling around Bill Clinton for years (and to a lesser extent Joe Biden), and he actually paid somebody off whilst President; there is nothing to seriously suggest that he wants to 'dismantle democracy'; he told the 'insurrectionists' to 'peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard'; and he didn't get involved in any stupid wars, despite you screeching how 'dangerous' he is for the rest of the world.

Relax.

[Dquincy]

Take an autocue away from Kamala Harris and she has no clue what she's talking about. It's clear to see in many of her interviews. How anyone would think she'd be a good president is beyond me.

[randomlegend]

I think Trump and the referendum refuseniks were equally cretinous. You refuse to accept the similarities because you agree with one and not the other. That is fine, but it just makes you sound like a wally.

Elsewhere, sexual assault allegations have been swirling around Bill Clinton for years (and to a lesser extent Joe Biden), and he actually paid somebody off whilst President; there is nothing to seriously suggest that he wants to 'dismantle democracy'; he told the 'insurrectionists' to 'peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard'; and he didn't get involved in any stupid wars, despite you screeching how 'dangerous' he is for the rest of the world.

Relax.

You'll need to jog my memory about which British politicians have been indicted for trying to overthrow the referendum result.

[Lewis]

Why is that the difference? Is trying to reverse an election result fine as long as there are formal mechanisms for doing so? What a weird moral outlook to have.

[John Arne]

Take an autocue away from Kamala Harris and she has no clue what she's talking about. It's clear to see in many of her interviews. How anyone would think she'd be a good president is beyond me.

I mean she has a law degree, and was District Attorney in San Francisco for 10 years and AG of California for 5 or 6 years. I'm not her biggest fan, but she is clearly very intelligent, and most important, not a psychopath.

[Manc]

Not a chance in hell America elects a half-black, half-Indian woman as president.

[SvN]

Lewis winning multiple best poster awards feels like a lifetime ago.

[Giggles]

Not a chance in hell America elects a half-black, half-Indian woman as president.

⅓ black, ⅓ Indian, ⅓ spastic.

[Lofty]

There was a vox pop on the BBC the other day where a load of old black fellas were saying a woman can't run the country, time for Racism to fight Sexism to see once and for all which is worse :drool:

[Manc]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/26/vote-kamala-harris-observer-editorial#comments

:cab:

[Jimmy Floyd]

The class of (often British) political thinkers who grew up wanking themselves dry on Clinton '92 and the West Wing are absolutely baffled by the readiness of many Americans to vote for Trump. Dr David Kelly's murderer put out a bizarre tweet to similar effect yesterday or the day before.

You have to know your opponent to beat them and these people just aren't interested other than in lolling at him being senile or decrying him as Adolf mk 2. Haven't learned whatsoever from the last two elections. Harris may well win but fucking hell.

[Pepe]

I am sure some British person writing for The Guardian will convince many Trump voters to switch. Thanks for saving DEMOCRACY, mates.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not sure what's happened today but I've just opened twitter to a whole load more Adolf shite from the usual suspects. Such small-minded people, such lack of imagination.

[hfswjyr]

The class of (often British) political thinkers who grew up wanking themselves dry on Clinton '92 and the West Wing are absolutely baffled by the readiness of many Americans to vote for Trump.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYcMk3AJKLk
Have a displeased you, you feckless thug?
You get Hoynes (Trump)!

[John Arne]

Biden little speech yesterday, apart from coming across as completely fucking senile and lost, like... why say something like that days before the election... in the morning why didn't one of his aides say "hey Biden you old fuck, if anyone asks you about the garbage stuff, just say 'it was a terrible thing to say'". Shit like this really makes me question the actual intelligence of these people.

[phonics]

Don't understand that thought tbh.

Who was on the fence and deciding who to vote for in the 4 states that matter who went from not voting or voting democrat to voting for Trump because he said it?

It's the most online horse race dog shit.

[John Arne]

I generally think that calling 50% of your population garbage is just not a good idea. It may not change people's voting intentions, but it's just a fucking stupid thing to say, and obviously not true.

[phonics]

I generally think that calling 50% of your population garbage is just not a good idea. It may not change people's voting intentions, but it's just a fucking stupid thing to say, and obviously not true.

I mean 1) 100% of the country doesn't vote. 2) Trying to interpret what he said as saying that is just as not true as his statement. It's just the deplorables playbook again.

[SvN]

I can't fathom that Trump is nearly 1/2 favourite to win this.

[Spikey M]

They don't help themselves by demonising him and the people considering voting for him. They end up doing so purely as a middle finger to those currently in power, much like they did here with Brexit.

[Magic]

Wearing a binman outfit. He gets it and unfortunately that's why he'll win.

TAKING OUT THE TRASH.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They don't help themselves by demonising him and the people considering voting for him. They end up doing so purely as a middle finger to those currently in power, much like they did here with Brexit.

Been happening for over 10 years now and I've decided that the moronic rich-liberal people, both sides of the Atlantic, literally can't help themselves.

Has Larry the cat endorsed Harris yet?

[Magic]

They don't help themselves by demonising him and the people considering voting for him. They end up doing so purely as a middle finger to those currently in power, much like they did here with Brexit.

Except they were mostly doing the middle finger to brown people and other poor people.

[Yevrah]

I can't fathom that Trump is nearly 1/2 favourite to win this.

You're not alone, far from it, but it really shouldn't be a difficult thing to fathom.

[Jimmy Floyd]

1/2 is a bit skinny for me, only one or two things have to go right for Harris for her to piss it.

[Kikó]

If yesterday's stunt was enough to change your vote to trump then you were always doing to vote for him. I doubt you had to hear anything new from either candidate at this stage.

[Yevrah]

For those in the know, what time are we on for a result? I might have to watch it. The seethe either way will be amusing.

[niko_cee]

Feels like if you had real conviction you could make a killing laying Trump, the polling is nowhere near those odds and I reckon he loses handily with all but the truly insane in the quiet contemplation of the polling booth.

[Pepe]

Let's not forget one of the best charts ever created:

https://x.com/nytgraphics/status/796195155158171648

[randomlegend]

Anyone still voting for Trump is beyond reasoning, "demonising" them is irrelevant.

[Spikey M]

If yesterday's stunt was enough to change your vote to trump then you were always doing to vote for him. I doubt you bed to hear anything new from either candidate at this stage.

I'm not so sure. You will get people that aren't satisfied with the current government but also don't really want a Trunp one either. They're wrestling with that, then the current president pops up on TV and basically calls you a cunt? That's not going to have zero impact.

[randomlegend]

Maybe they should reflect on whether they are in fact a cunt and stop being one.

[Spikey M]

Maybe they should reflect on whether they are in fact a cunt and stop being one.

They're Americans. They're all cunts, just in different forms. You aren't going to be seeing any reflection or self awareness anytime soon.

[Yevrah]

This is exactly the same shit as 8 years ago. Will we (the left) never learn.

There is no chance in this World or the next that Trump would have beaten Obama, so if he wins on Tuesday the only takeaway should be “how did we fuck this up? Again.”.

[Kikó]

For those in the know, what time are we on for a result? I might have to watch it. The seethe either way will be amusing.

It's weeks later isn't it? It takes fucking ages to count everything.

[Yevrah]

Nah, it was obvious (to all but Trump) that Biden had won at some point in the evening/morning on the day last time.

[niko_cee]

Don't the polls close in the meaningful states around 3am our time, but then they have robo-counting which gives a pretty quick idea of who has won unless it's super close?

2 weeks later is if it ends up in THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA which would be an epic outcome.

[Pepe]

Last two elections we knew in the morning. This one should be the same.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Last time I seem to remember Trump going heavy favourite early in the night our time, and then the air gradually came out of it and he'd lost by about 7am.

Those were the days, back when Biden hadn't yet gone full Weekend at Bernie's.

[Ben]

Just seen Trump’s speech in the orange hi vis vest and his face is the same colour. :D

[Lofty]

He also struggles to open the door of the truck, his supporters now cutting about in MAGA bin bags :D

[Spikey M]

This is why we need Trump to win. The west is fucked anyway, the end may as well be funny.

[Yevrah]

I know this is all well trodden ground, but the assumption that he'll destroy the World if he gets in when there's absolutely no evidence for it (only president in living memory not to bomb anyone or start a war, right?) is all kinds of lol. The man only cares about himself, so why on earth would he want to be rolling around an irradiated golf course within the next four years?

If he does get in, he'll do some tours, sidle up to anyone he can (dictators et al very welcome) in a tragic effort to prove what a great diplomat he is and generally feather his own nest.

[Spikey M]

He will do and achieve nothing but it will be funny listening to his retarded rambling and watching his supporters walk around eating cat food from the tin or whatever he makes them do next.

If Harris wins she will also do and achieve nothing, but there'll be no memes.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He's a dealmaker by nature, he'll want to do deals with all the foreign powers, especially Putin, look how he tried cosying up to Kim Jong-Un last time round. The destructive damage he does will be internal.

[Yevrah]

I had cause to take a proper look at how business rates work yesterday and fuck me, if there was anything that made me side with your "everything is terrible/we're all fucked" Spikey it was that. If only a fraction of the unnecessary complication and abysmal administration involved is repeated elsewhere in the public sector then we have literally taxed businesses heavily only to piss it all down the drain elsewhere.

[Clunge]

Wholesale business rates reform from 2026. Long overdue. Was allowed to rot pre- and during Covid, we've still got a relief system because the Tories ran out of time/inclination to actually do anything about the system.

[Yevrah]

It's still rotting now. The retail, leisure and hospitality relief, or rather the way it's been implemented is an absolute disgrace and will be haemorrhaging cash as a result.

[Spikey M]

We will continue down this road until we realise that the national debt is an insurmountable problem that we are continuing to make worse. We have no money because we are servicing trillions of pounds worth of debt and it's still increasing.

What do we do about that? I don't know, I am Yevrah Spikey, but we need to do something about it, because we are on a steady path to bankruptcy at present. It's going to be very, very shit, whatever we eventually end up doing, anyway.

My very basic understanding tells me we either devalue the currency massively so that the debt is worth less but a loaf of bread now costs £200. Or go through austerity so deep that Shinners is personally scrapping everyone's benefits, Baz is closing every library and drug rehab centre, RL privatises the NHS and Spikey is evicting all of you from your council houses to sell them to Saudi Arabia.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In this country the best solution is to completely remodel health so that the state has enough capacity to actually run other things well. Good luck getting that one past the civil service and facebook mums though.

[Spikey M]

In this country the best solution is to completely remodel health so that the state has enough capacity to actually run other things well. Good luck getting that one past the civil service and facebook mums though.

Nor do I think it's desirable. The NHS is one of the only legitimately good things to come out of the war. It's just being chronically mismanaged like everything else is.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Good luck not mismanaging it is all I can say.

[Pepe]

The solution to all issues is to incessantly pursue growth, something all European countries (and the UK and to a lesser extent the US) seem to have completely abandoned. You can reform this, cut here, increase that tax over there. You will not get those numbers to match. What we all need is a lot more wealth.

[Lofty]

Haven't Ireland managed it with increased taxes for a decade and they're now in surplus?

[Spikey M]

Haven't Ireland managed it with increased taxes for a decade and they're now in surplus?

Didn't they basically just bend over for big business when we left the EU? So all the US companies moved their European HQ's from here to there after being offered incredibly low taxes? Meanwhile they taxed their own population more. They may have a stronger economy now but I doubt normal people there are any better off than we are.
Giggles?

[Pepe]

Don't know the Irish specifics all that well, but "bending over" to big business via offering them low taxes is a good move that everyone should pursue. Or just have a stagnant industry and try to get people into the pubs to keep your economy rolling, I guess.

EDIT: Based on really quick Google numbers, Ireland gets ~2.4 more in corporate tax per capita than the UK does.

[Spikey M]

Don't know the Irish specifics all that well, but "bending over" to big business via offering them low taxes is a good move that everyone should pursue. Or just have a stagnant industry and try to get people into the pubs to keep your economy rolling, I guess.

Having super powerful businesses that have your government in the palm of their hands has its own issues. A massive opiod crisis, pollution of the natural environment and basically legalising corruption being just a few of them. The key is in the balance.

[Pepe]

You can get all of those regardless of what you choose to set your corporate rate at. Might as well set it low, since it leads to more income and some people might even get a job out of it.

[Spikey M]

You can get all of those regardless of what you choose to set your corporate rate at. Might as well set it low, since it leads to more income and some people might even get a job out of it.

The issue in the UK is basically Margaret Thatcher. Still.

We no longer build anything, produce anything or export anything. Instead it was all in on big businesses and big finance in particular. Which was great for a while, I guess, but now that the big businesses are moving elsewhere - which is only going to increase now - we are left with a barren wasteland of decline.

The service economy is all we have left. Hence the pub shenanigans. Who else are they going to help? The steel industry? Oh. Car manufacturers? Erm. Oh, I know UK Energy and HS2... again.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I exported £150,000 of goods in October alone. It's you public sector wankers letting the side down.

[niko_cee]

Aside from the fact that we do, in fact, make quite a lot of stuff, that whole make stuff/dig stuff out of the ground is better than 'services' is such a load of shit, in a similar oeuvre to people who lose their minds at the idea of a national budget not necessarily being run on the same footing as a domestic one.

[Lewis]

The majority of our operating nuclear reactors were commissioned under Margaret Thatcher, there were more houses built in her worst years than there are now (when the population was significantly smaller), North Sea oil and gas was allowed to flourish, and I think it's something like she completed more miles of motorway than have been built since. Anyone blaming her for our lack of industrial output is mental. Even if she had fucked everything up - which she didn't, because the industries she finished off were for the most part already dead - she left office in 1990. That is as far away from us as 1990 was 1956, when the country was still building steam locomotives and employed 700000 people to keep them running.

Britain is circling the toilet because we have deliberately made energy expensive, deliberately made building anything stupidly time consuming (expensive), run a stupidly slack labour market to discourage any sort of investment in productivity, and all the rest of it. We need to start thinking of ourselves as a developing economy, and if that means twerking for every multinational then so be it.

[Pepe]

Cheap energy should be step #1 on any plan.

[Pepe]

make quite a lot of stuff, that whole make stuff/dig stuff out of the ground is better than 'services' is such a load of shit

I mean, I don't disagree. Nothing is made in Silicon Valley yet is the biggest driver of innovation in the planet. You do need innovation though, especially if you don't plan to build physical stuff.

[Shindig]

I wonder how much of our Motorsports valley has contributed to actual road vehicles?

I would also prioritise cheap energy. As well as:

- Abolish private landlords. If you're not living in it, you're not having the place. That goes back into THE MARKET for a council to rent/sell.
- Money management winds up on the National Curriculum. School leavers get the job experience stuff but they need the financial sense to go with it.
- Look at what we're importing and see if we can't strong arm those companies into setting up shop here.

Man, that's a short list. I'm really thick, sorry.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Money management is more commonly known as 'maths'.

[Pepe]

No private landlords? You just made renting more expensive / impossible.

Money management in school? Kids already don't learn anything of what they are taught in school. What makes you think they will learn that?

Tariffs? Everything is suddenly more expensive for everyone. If things are cheaper abroad, you should be importing them.

[Shindig]

They don't teach you pensions in maths. They'll add too numbers together all day, every day but they won't think about money in a proper way.

And my thinking on the private landlords is that it'd flood councils/estate agents with properties they'd quickly want to get rid of rather than manage. Total bollocks but whatever.

[phonics]

On the industry thing, I've said that after the recession that instead of any of this levelling up/HS2 bollocks, the one thing they should have concentrated on is building manufacturing in the north capable of building microchips, EV and lithium batteries. They take about 10 years to get online but when borrowing is at 0% you've basically guranteed easy and cheap access to a internationally sought after technology for the next hundred years that would employ tens of thousands and doesn't require high education levels on a production side. It was a no brainer. Now it's too late and we'll be buying them off China forever.

[Boydy]

We really fucked the low to zero interest rate period. Should have been borrowing everything we could to invest then.

[niko_cee]

Isn't that what all the super rich were doing?

Having seen a bit of one of Harris' rallies earlier it's really hard to get over quite how shit she is.

[Bernanke]

She has this handily, I got 500 on @ 2.60.

[Giggles]

Didn't they basically just bend over for big business when we left the EU? So all the US companies moved their European HQ's from here to there after being offered incredibly low taxes? Meanwhile they taxed their own population more. They may have a stronger economy now but I doubt normal people there are any better off than we are.
Giggles?

Ireland had low corporate tax rates to bring in US investment long before Brexit, over a decade before it, so I wouldn't be taking it as the personal affront.

[niko_cee]

Leprechaun economics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprechaun_economics)

[Lofty]

1852687230063476779

[randomlegend]

Just a normal candidate by the way. Both sides.

[niko_cee]

He's obviously a nut but seeing Harris grinning inanely saying God is Great as if a bit of Smokin' Joe B's dementia has rubbed off on her isn't a whole lot more confidence inspiring. Still think she wins, but that it is so close is a worry and an indication of what a meh choice she is.

[Ben]

The Harris whataboutism whenever Trump does something pathetic is a bit tiring. Yes she might prove to be useless but Trump is a fucking crook. He’s literally banned from opening a charity because he embezzled money from his last one that was set up to help kids with cancer. Not to mention inciting insurrections and whatnot.

[niko_cee]

Saying she is shit isn't whataboutery, it's just saying she is shit. As evidenced by the prospect of her losing to a deranged felon.

Reckon the recent trend of swings to the right not really materialising anything may hold out though and she takes a Biden type victory.

[Kikó]

I think she's going to win comfortably.

[Giggles]

How does the most powerful country in the world end up with two candidates like that in the first place? It's insane.

[Pepe]

Apparently that "sex-act" was not meant to be that. Not that it makes a difference to anything. Trump haters will hate him regardless and Trump supporters will keep supporting him regardless.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why is E. Musk shilling so hard for Donald? Surely as a mega-businessman you want to hedge your bets in these situations, like Cuddly Jeff has (albeit clumsily) done.

[Pepe]

I think that he is fueled by the same thing that most people into politics in the US are: hate for the other side.