So things seem a bit mad in France

[Henry]

elth's article is spot on.

Although with the Russians now rolling them back and with other developments, you've got to imagine that ISIS is going to lose a lot of its territory over the next few weeks.

[Lewis]

The Kurds have had a notable success against them in the previous few days, which they celebrated by burning Iraqi Sunnis out of their houses. Lads...

[Shindig]

So... did we kinda sneak some grunts in during the whole Arab spring or have I imagined that?

[Lee]

Load of shite. "Middle Eastern Wars" are no more (or less, for that matter) in Europe than they were after Madrid or London. Terrorists are just doing what terrorists do. France has a problem due to it's history, demographic and social particulars; it's situation is unique. That's not to say that it won't happen here (or elsewhere in Europe) at some point. We all know it definitely will. But then we've known that for more than a decade. Friday night doesn't change anything on that score.

[Boydy]

elth's article is spot on.


And yet he was saying pretty much the opposite earlier in the thread.

[Davgooner]

Bit late, but Madonna can fuck off.

[Magic]

And yet he was saying pretty much the opposite earlier in the thread.

Shock!

[Magic]

PB is getting on my jugs on Facebook. Article after article of shit. What about this? What about that? It's our faults! Crank.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

PB?

[Magic]

Jord.

By the way why don't the bombers just raze their cities to the ground? There are no civilians there, just monsters that hold similar ideals. Fucking take them all out. Men, women and children.

[Boom-Boom]

Jord.

By the way why don't the bombers just raze their cities to the ground? There are no civilians there, just monsters that hold similar ideals. Fucking take them all out. Men, women and children.

Isn't Raqqa a mixture of both civilians and militants?

I follow the 'Raqqa is being slaughtered silently' twitter page and constantly see posts about civilians being killed in air strikes. Apparently 30 strikes hit over the space of a few hours this evening.

[Lewis]

The Russians were kicking fuck out of it last night as well. They took out the ISIS fire brigade(!) amongst other things.

[Magic]

Anyone who willfully chooses to live under IS rule should be fair game.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

People are still trying to escape. The brilliant documentary on channel 4 showed a group helping people make it out.

[Magic]

I'm beyond giving a shit. Let's help them escape via incineration.

[GS]

So very boring.

Henry negative repped this.

Why even bother, lad.

[Henry]

Anyone who willfully chooses to live under IS rule should be fair game.

What does "willfully chooses" mean? Is that everybody who hasn't fled? Fuck that.

[Shindig]

They mix with civilians. That's why this kind of response is rough. Its a very visible response, though. I can't imagine the French government getting applause for "Guys, we're not doing this. Too many eggs to break and people to piss off." A covert response just gets seen as weak..

[Boom-Boom]

People are still trying to escape. The brilliant documentary on channel 4 showed a group helping people make it out.

What documentary is that?

[Henry]

Henry negative repped this.

Why even bother, lad.

Because you're being a dick, as usual. It was a joke, not a serious comment about showtrials.

[Magic]

What does "willfully chooses" mean? Is that everybody who hasn't fled? Fuck that.

Under IS rule yes. There can't be many left now as they're all in Europe anyway. 24 hours, leave or you will be crushed. Then carpet bomb every inch of IS territory.

[GS]

Because you're being a dick, as usual. It was a joke, not a serious comment about showtrials.

That I can't tell the difference any more speaks volumes about how incredibly boring you are on these topics.

Carry on.

[Magic]

Hypothetical - say IS do get fucked off the face of the earth.

What happens then? Assad regains control? What about the warring sub-groups? The Kurds?

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

What documentary is that?

Escape from ISIS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2fdtBDww2A

Struggling to actually find a link for it though.

[Giggles]

Hypothetical - say IS do get fucked off the face of the earth.

What happens then? Assad regains control? What about the warring sub-groups? The Kurds?

Then the media and Facebook rejoices that TERROR is over and we are all safe, just like after Hussein and Bin Laden were killed.

Then some other group blows up something and it starts again.

[Henry]

GS - I don't find your bullshit particularly interesting either. Feel free to ignore it if you don't like it.


Under IS rule yes. There can't be many left now as they're all in Europe anyway. 24 hours, leave or you will be crushed. Then carpet bomb every inch of IS territory.

How is this any different than the ISIS approach?

[Magic]

GS - I don't find your bullshit particularly interesting either. Feel free to ignore it if you don't like it.



How is this any different than the ISIS approach?

Are you just being contrary now?

[Henry]

Are you just being contrary now?

You want to murder several million people. So, no.

[Pepe]

Lol at taking Magic seriously.

[Magic]

We'd get a few bad guys as well though. :cool:

[Lewis]

Hypothetical - say IS do get fucked off the face of the earth.

What happens then? Assad regains control? What about the warring sub-groups? The Kurds?

The Kurds will presumably secure regional autonomy for themselves (which the Americans oppose because Turkey), but it's worth remembering that half of what ISIS 'control' in Syria is shitty desert. It would be relatively easy for whatever government emerges to keep all of that reasonably quiet once they've fucked off.

Giving them a day to leave is a bit counter-productive don't you think?

[phonics]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT4jg5eU8AAEruV.jpg:large

Brilliant.

[ScousePig]

Close all the borders!

Kill them all for still being in Syria!!

[John]

NCIS used that as a plot years ago. Terrorist wankers were using transactions in a SimCity type game to communicate times and locations, as I remember.

[Yevrah]

The QE Peter Hitchins and QE Douglas Murray are on Sunday morning live now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8nIrM5Vgzw

[DC]

NCIS used that as a plot years ago. Terrorist wankers were using transactions in a SimCity type game to communicate times and locations, as I remember.

Or you can secretly embed messages to people in html, they'd never think of looking there! (No_really_they_probably_would_not_be_looking_here _because_it_is_patently_fucking_stupid.)

[elth]

And yet he was saying pretty much the opposite earlier in the thread.

What? :D

[Henry]

www.raqqa-sl.com/en

Necessary reading, I think.

[Toby]

That website in general or did you mean to link a specific article?

[Boydy]

Tinder's just full of French flags now.

[Henry]

That website in general or did you mean to link a specific article?

The site in general.

[phonics]

Tinder's just full of French flags now.

My PC wouldn't let me copy/paste this yesterday

665948250319491072

[phonics]

While I'm looking at my own Twitter profile. I did enjoy this after the Kay Burley tweet

665845971398578176

[Boydy]

While I'm looking at my own Twitter profile. I did enjoy this after the Kay Burley tweet

665845971398578176

I saw that one. :D

[phonics]

They've only gone and taken the guy on the run alive.

Belgian police arrest Paris suspect - report

Belgian broadcaster RTL reports (http://www.rtl.be/info/regions/bruxelles/intervention-policiere-en-cours-a-molenbeek-salah-abdeslam-aurait-ete-arrete-771224.aspx) that police have arrested Salah Abdeslam, suspected of being involved in the Paris attacks, in the Belgian suburb of Molenbeek. Abdeslam was the subject of the French police wanted order. The RTL report has not yet been confirmed.

His brother was named by French police as a bomber who carried out a suicide attack on one of the locations targeted on Friday night.

Abdeslam Salah Photograph: DSK/AFP/Getty ImagesAccording to multiple reports, police carried out a raid in Molenbeek this morning and closed several roads.

Witnesses at the scene described hearing explosions followed by orders given by police through a loudspeaker.

One man was apparently then ordered to come to the window with his hands raised.

Salah is alleged to have rented the black Volkswagen Polo used by the group that attacked the Bataclan concert hall.

He is said to have been born and lived in Belgium, although French police have described him as a French national (http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/15/paris-attacker-named-investigation-continues-live-updates#block-5648d400e4b0ced428cb2acf).

In the hours after the attacks, French police stopped Abdeslam and two other men close to the border with Belgium, but allowed them to go on their way because their names were not at that stage on any wanted list.

Ibrahim Abdeslam, the brother of on-the-run attacker Salah, was identified by prosecutors as the man who rented a Seat vehicle used in the attacks.

He carried out the suicide attack at the Comptoir Voltaire cafe. Ibrahim, 31, was a French national based in Belgium.

[Manc]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT4jg5eU8AAEruV.jpg:large

Brilliant.

I've seen this done. What I thought was a penis was obviously a missile.

[Boydy]

What? :D


The Russians are already on the ground in Syria.

As for "the West" not knowing that Saudi Arabia is the source of all the problems - firstly, that's horrendously naive (everyone and their dog loves a good meddle in the ME) and secondly, they know perfectly well where all of the trouble comes from. They just think putting up with Saudi Arabia's support for nutjobbery is worth the cost. Who else can "the West" side with in the Middle East? Iraq's a failed state, Iran's spent 30 years preaching Death to America, Syria is Israel's main enemy, Jordan's got all the political clout of Belgium and the Gulf States are minnows. They prop up Saudi Arabia because there's nobody else.

"The west won't stop support Saudi Arabia"


There Is Only One Way to Defeat ISIS (http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a39727/paris-attacks-middle-eastern-oligarchies/)
"The West should stop supporting Saudi Arabia"

[Boydy]

'Tragedy hipsters' (https://storify.com/JamilesLartey/on-fff) - the ones all going 'What about Beirut? What about Kenya six moths ago?'

[Waffdon]

Nickfootie :drool:

Anonymous have declared war on ISIS.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I bet ISIS are quaking in their boots.

[Pepe]

They are the ones most likely to crack their Super Mario Maker codes so they should be.

[Lewis]

They tried using your Mario werewolf as code but nobody understood it.

[Pepe]

They should've read the links I gave them then, the massive cunts. :moop:

[Manc]

I've just bought a bag from Aldi with the slogan "Bringing home the bacon". Solidarity.

[Spoonsky]

"The west won't stop support Saudi Arabia"


"The West should stop supporting Saudi Arabia"

There is nothing contradictory in those statements.

[Spammer]

To go back to Facebook narcissism, my friend's wife has crafted a spectacular status about how anxious she is about going to 'Europe' tomorrow (you're going to Prague, you stupid American twat), and it's getting loads of supportive feedback.

Stop lying.

You don't have any friends.

[Lewis]

Just because I haven't slotted her in front of him doesn't mean we aren't mates.

[Boydy]

There is nothing contradictory in those statements.

I suppose there isn't in the way I've put them but if you read Elth's post he's saying there's no one else in the middle east to support but Saudi Arabia, which implies they should keep supporting them.

Basically, he's pretty much always just a contrarian bastard who just likes to go 'well, actually...' in any thread he can.

[Pen]

'Tragedy hipsters' (https://storify.com/JamilesLartey/on-fff) - the ones all going 'What about Beirut? What about Kenya six moths ago?'

Whilst the term is vastly overused, this has made some people absolutely unbearable in social media. It's always the same sort of twats who wheel out the same shit about 'If you care about A, why don't you care about b,c,d and z as much as well', whilst doing fuck all themselves. Utter cunts the lot of them.

[Lewis]

That implies you are doing something by caring.

[phonics]

A lady has been arrested for refusing to serve Muslims but would like to make it clear that she is not a racialist


One post on her page, which has since been taken down, is said to have read: “Blinks of Bicester are no longer taking bookings from anyone from the Islamic faith whether you are UK granted with passport or not. Sorry but time to put my country first.”

A later post reportedly read: “I have been inundated with messages tonight as I said I would not book any muslin [sic] or Islamic client. I stand by that completely as a UK citizen. However those that want to call me racialist. Think on.”

[Pen]

That implies you are doing something by caring.

Well, if it were a contest I'd put empty gestures that mean good over complaining about them. (I'm not suggesting that people putting a French flag over their profile picture actually helps anyone in any way)

[Lewis]

Then do it every time somewhere goes up.

I don't really care about any of them, so I can CALL OUT who I like.

[Boydy]

They're all bellends. It's just more of that 'virtue signalling' that someone (Lewis?) posted about before. People scrambling to show how much they 'care'.

Funny, I never saw the Beirut thing mentioned at all on social media before the Paris attack.

[Pen]

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. People only bring those other attacks in to discussion when other people are 'showing support' (let's use the term very loosely here).

I personally don't think that changing my profile picture is worth my time, but I wouldn't even think to start lecturing others on weather they should or not. It's a phenomenon that's rife amongst idiots in other circumstances as well.

[Giggles]

Just because I haven't slotted her in front of him doesn't mean we aren't mates.

Don't mention that!

[phonics]

Yeah, wouldn't want him freaking out over it like someone had had the audacity of calling a type of pasta rank.

[Giggles]

Yeah, wouldn't want him freaking out over it like someone had had the audacity of calling a type of pasta rank.

Sorry I didn't realise he had immunity too. Do you have to go to a 'kick about' or something?

[phonics]

You know what this has taught me though;

Who knew but ISIS are a CIA false flag operation

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT7WXdBUYAAkOfb.jpg:large

[phonics]

Sorry I didn't realise he had immunity too. Do you have to go to a 'kick about' or something?

Mate, if you're going to accuse me of having some sort of Illuminati-esque club of members where we sponsor targetted attacks on certain members, at least give me a cool name like 'Team Lewis' or something.

I'm sure davidicke.com would be willing to take a look at it.

[Giggles]

Mate, if you're going to accuse me of having some sort of Illuminati-esque club of members where we sponsor targetted attacks on certain members, at least give me a cool name like 'Team Lewis' or something.

I'm sure davidicke.com would be willing to take a look at it.

Team Davidicke.com? Might be a bit lazy on my part.

[Dquincy]

'Tragedy hipsters' (https://storify.com/JamilesLartey/on-fff) - the ones all going 'What about Beirut? What about Kenya six moths ago?'

I'm not reading all of that.

[Giggles]

Just looks to be a page of tweets. Who is he anyway?

[Dquincy]

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. People only bring those other attacks in to discussion when other people are 'showing support' (let's use the term very loosely here).

I personally don't think that changing my profile picture is worth my time, but I wouldn't even think to start lecturing others on weather they should or not. It's a phenomenon that's rife amongst idiots in other circumstances as well.
Don't think you should be blaming the weather on terrorist attacks.

[Boydy]

I'm not reading all of that.

No one asked you to.

[Pen]

Don't think you should be blaming the weather on terrorist attacks.

Just a small typo/misspelling. I'm sure you were able to get the point.

[Dquincy]

No one asked you to.
Please ask me. :(

[Henry]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/links-between-turkey-and-isis-are-now-undeniable-2015-7?r=US&IR=T

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iraq-crisis-how-saudi-arabia-helped-isis-take-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html

Needs re-stated.

ISIS is the richest terrorist group in history. They are running on a budget of $2 billion per year, funded by oil sales and foreign donations. That keeps their volunteers paid and the local populations in line.

Saudi Arabia. Qatar. Kuwait. Turkey.

Those are the places where ISIS get its money. Cutting it off will have more effect than any number of airstrikes.

[GS]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/links-between-turkey-and-isis-are-now-undeniable-2015-7?r=US&IR=T

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iraq-crisis-how-saudi-arabia-helped-isis-take-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html

Needs re-stated.

ISIS is the richest terrorist group in history. They are running on a budget of $2 billion per year, funded by oil sales and foreign donations. That keeps their volunteers paid and the local populations in line.

Saudi Arabia. Qatar. Kuwait. Turkey.

Those are the places where ISIS get its money. Cutting it off will have more effect than any number of airstrikes.

It's not as easy as this, as you well know.

[Lewis]

It would be easier to kill them all.

[Henry]

It's not as easy as this, as you well know.

None of it is "easy". It is, however, necessary.

[Shindig]

If Metal Gear Solid V has taught me anything, its that parasites can sort this.

[Dquincy]

If Metal Gear Solid V has taught me anything, its that parasites can sort this.

Bring in the nerd to sort this.

[Spammer]

Anyone got any books to recommend to give a general history and sense of context to all this shit? I've pirated a 1000 page goliath by Robert Fisk onto my Kindle which looks interesting although I don't know if I'd have the patience for something that big. I'm going in blind so thought I'd ask.

[Henry]

I read Patrick Cockburn's "The Rise of Islamic State: Isis and the New Sunni Revolution" earlier in the year. It's not his best, but it's probably worth it and I don't know of anything better.

Which Fisk book did you get?

[Henry]

Watching John Kerry here.

You have to hand it to his speech-writer.

[Lee]

I'd start with books on the rise and fall of al Qaeda first. Jason Burke's 'Al Qaeda' and 'The 9/11 Wars' are both very good, as is Lawrence Wright's 'The Looming Tower'. I've yet to read any of the IS specific ones but it's a good idea to have some idea about how islam became politicised to the point of terrorism before delving into the current mob, I'd suggest.

[Toby]

I swear GS hasn't actually posted anything on the new board beyond sniping at Henry.

[Magic]

What if we genetically create Velociraptors and train them to hunt and kill under our command?

[Yevrah]

No need Magic, Will Smith is about to get involved.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-attacks-celebrities-reflect-on-terrorist-attacks-at-governors-awards-in-los-angeles-a6736326.html

[simon]

'Will Smith is about to get involved' has me immediately imagining him Independence Day-ing ISIS out of existence.

:drool:

[Magic]

I Am Legend, except obviously the setting is more desolate.

[Lewis]

Doesn't Will Smith pay the Scientologists to leave him alone? I don't think he's the man to stand up to them.

[Lewis]

David Cameron is speeching about this on Sky News. 11/9 was before Iraq. How can it have anything to do with Western foreign policy? Get lost, mate.

[Lee]

So it turns out that at least five of the terrorists spent some time in Syria and that the French knew this and even had dossiers on some due to their radicalism. So in relation to my previous question about being able to pull people in; surely that's enough to at least be asking questions and, I dunno, searching their houses for fucking guns? Young muslim blokes with radical beliefs heading to Syria? Definitely just a holiday, lads.

[Giggles]

So it turns out that at least five of the terrorists spent some time in Syria and that the French knew this and even had dossiers on some due to their radicalism. So in relation to my previous question about being able to pull people in; surely that's enough to at least be asking questions and, I dunno, searching their houses for fucking guns? Young muslim blokes with radical beliefs heading to Syria? Definitely just a holiday, lads.

I don't know why the ones in question just didn't end up having random 'accidents' long beforw now. Dossiers my hole.

[Lewis]

They might have been doing 'charity work' like Shaker Aamer.

[GS]

There's probably a balance to be struck in terms of when you raid them. Given you can't just throw them in the Bastille and pretend otherwise any more, one assumes you have to wait until they've actually incriminated themselves before you go and arrest them. Otherwise you have nothing on them, have to let them go and they disappear.

[Yevrah]

So it turns out that at least five of the terrorists spent some time in Syria and that the French knew this and even had dossiers on some due to their radicalism. So in relation to my previous question about being able to pull people in; surely that's enough to at least be asking questions and, I dunno, searching their houses for fucking guns? Young muslim blokes with radical beliefs heading to Syria? Definitely just a holiday, lads.

If they haven't actually done anything and there's no evidence that they're about to (before their door gets knocked down) what are the authorities supposed to do? Unless you're advocating locking up anyone who's been to Syria, forever.

[Magic]

Falls back to Lee's original argument of 'Let them do it, then we can arrest them. That's the law!'

:harold:

[Yevrah]

I don't know why the ones in question just didn't end up having random 'accidents' long beforw now. Dossiers my hole.

It's funny how people's principles change when faced with the actual reality of a situation as opposed to wanking off in print/on the internet.

That Yasmin Alibhai-Brown has done a complete 180 and now advocates that our civil liberties need to be curtailed in light of what happened on Friday brought the biggest lol.

[Pepe]

So it turns out that at least five of the terrorists spent some time in Syria and that the French knew this and even had dossiers on some due to their radicalism. So in relation to my previous question about being able to pull people in; surely that's enough to at least be asking questions and, I dunno, searching their houses for fucking guns? Young muslim blokes with radical beliefs heading to Syria? Definitely just a holiday, lads.

If I recall correctly, they have about 11,000 persons in such a shortlist.

[Giggles]

It's funny how people's principles change when faced with the actual reality of a situation as opposed to wanking off in print/on the internet.

That Yasmin Alibhai-Brown has done a complete 180 and now advocates that our civil liberties need to be curtailed in light of what happened on Friday brought the biggest lol.

I don't fully get if that's aimed at me but I've been saying the same thing for years about the NI terrorists too.

[Disco]

Would they be stupid enough to just keep the AK under the bed? Surely you'd have your hardware stashed or held by someone less suspicious.

[Kikó]

Islam apologist on CNN

https://www.facebook.com/issambayanofficial/videos/731193436971783/

[GS]

Would they be stupid enough to just keep the AK under the bed? Surely you'd have your hardware stashed or held by someone less suspicious.

One of the issues with not rolling IS back is that it creates an environment where they can a) make contacts and b) train for this sort of activity.

[Lewis]

'France is at war', sez the President, so they would be well within their rights to just kick doors in and machine gun people over their curry. This obviously wouldn't have been much use the other night, but the next one might be averted.

[Magic]

Would they be stupid enough to just keep the AK under the bed? Surely you'd have your hardware stashed or held by someone less suspicious.

Well they already found a weapons cache of AKs and fucking rocket launchers in someone's flat

[Lee]

Falls back to Lee's original argument of 'Let them do it, then we can arrest them. That's the law!'

:harold:

They knew they went to Syria to fight with IS. There's even a photograph of one of them standing underneath an IS flag in Syria. To me that constitutes doing something. My position remains unchanged. It sounds to me like there has been a massive security failure.

[GS]

They knew they went to Syria to train fight with IS. There's even a photograph of one of them standing underneath an IS flag in Syria. To me that constitutes doing something. My position remains unchanged. It sounds to be like there has been a massive security failure.

You can't really punish people for what they think unless they go and do something. They presumably couldn't prove that he was breaking the law in France.

However, there's clearly a MASSIVE problem here, which is that the French border now extends to some shitty island in Greece. It's a laugh.

[Lee]

If they haven't actually done anything and there's no evidence that they're about to (before their door gets knocked down) what are the authorities supposed to do? Unless you're advocating locking up anyone who's been to Syria, forever.

I'm certainly advocating locking up people who go to Syria to fight with IS. How can that not be a crime?

[GS]

I'm certainly advocating locking up people who go to Syria to fight with IS. How can that not be a crime?

Can you prove he was 'fighting' in Syria?

[Lee]

You can't really punish people for what they think unless they go and do something. They presumably couldn't prove that he was breaking the law in France.

However, there's clearly a MASSIVE problem here, which is that the French border now extends to some shitty island in Greece. It's a laugh.

The border not being managed properly is the issue as opposed to its location. I'm still all up for open borders across the EU and I haven't changed my mind on what I see as our responsibility to help all those refugees. Proper border checks and processing on entry to the EU need putting in place though.

[Lewis]

I'm certainly advocating locking up people who go to Syria to fight with IS. How can that not be a crime?

We should avoid all confusion and just extradite them to Syria.

[Magic]

The border not being managed properly is the issue as opposed to its location. I'm still all up for open borders across the EU and I haven't changed my mind on what I see as our responsibility to help all those refugees. Proper border checks and processing on entry to the EU need putting in place though.

This was already done, apparently.

[Giggles]

Can you prove he was 'fighting' in Syria?

Prove nothing. There's no smoke without fire so don't take the risk and just do them as early as possible. Arresting them makes too many questions and draws too much attention, just put them in an unmarked hole where they won't be missed.
Whatever the perceived ethics, the price of the risk of not doing it is too great. As we have seen.

[Lee]

Can you prove he was 'fighting' in Syria?

Me? Of course I can't, what a ridiculous question. I'll be fucking amazed if French spies can't though. He fucked off from his home in Brussels because the Belgian police killed two of his terrorist mates. They knew who he was.

And right on cue, the French are talking about putting French nationals returning from Syria under house arrest.

[Yevrah]

'France is at war', sez the President, so they would be well within their rights to just kick doors in and machine gun people over their curry. This obviously wouldn't have been much use the other night, but the next one might be averted.

Can you legitimately declare war on people minding their own business, eating their curries of an evening?

[GS]

The border not being managed properly is the issue as opposed to its location. I'm still all up for open borders across the EU and I haven't changed my mind on what I see as our responsibility to help all those refugees. Proper border checks and processing on entry to the EU need putting in place though.

The French border extends to a shitty island where the lads tasked with deciding who can come in are overwhelmed by the numbers. They also know bloody rightly that they're going to disappear somewhere else. Does a Greek civil servant really give that much of a shit if the person they've let in winds up 1,000 miles away in France?

Open borders does not work, as evidenced by the current crisis.

[GS]

Me? Of course I can't, what a ridiculous question. I'll be fucking amazed if French spies can't though. He fucked off from his home in Brussels because the Belgian police killed two of his terrorist mates. They knew who he was.

And right on cue, the French are talking about putting French nationals returning from Syria under house arrest.

French spies. Is this evidence admissible in a French court?

I'm playing devil's advocate here, you understand. It's clearly not as easy as you'd like it to be.

[Yevrah]

French spies. Is this evidence admissible in a French court?

I'm playing devil's advocate here, you understand. It's clearly not as easy as you'd like it to be.

It's a piece of piss if you stop treating Muslims as fairly as others, but I can't believe Lee is advocating doing that.

[Lee]

French spies. Is this evidence admissible in a French court?

I'm playing devil's advocate here, you understand. It's clearly not as easy as you'd like it to be.

If security services know somebody is a radical islamist, know he has been to Syria to fight with IS (he was photographed over there FFS), have family members publicly condemning his willingess to kill European civilians and have already shot dead some terrorist mates he lived with in Brussels which saw him pissing off out of sight for a bit, then yes, I think doing something to stop him should be pretty easy.

[Magic]

European Court of HR would quash any convictions in a heartbeat.

[Pepe]

Thing is, they have thousands of persons (lets not forget this bunch were French citizens too) who have been 'radicalized'. About ten of them have decided to perform terrorist attacks. Suggesting that thousands of people should be locked up because ten of them decided to go on killing sprees is just fucked up.

[Lee]

It's a piece of piss if you stop treating Muslims as fairly as others, but I can't believe Lee is advocating doing that.

I'm not, so attempting to ake it look as though I've changed my stance on any of this is really poor form. I'm advocating treating people who have fought for IS in Syria less fairly than others. I reckon that's pretty reasonable.

[Giggles]

It's a piece of piss if you stop treating Muslims as fairly as others, but I can't believe Lee is advocating doing that.

It's not stopping treating Muslims as fairly though is it? That's the generalisation of all generalisations to try make a point.
It's stopping treating people you know have been trained by a terrorist group and are a threat to your state as fairly.

[GS]

If security services know somebody is a radical islamist, know he has been to Syria to fight with IS (he was photographed over there FFS), have family members publicly condemning his willingess to kill European civilians and have already shot dead some terrorist mates he lived with in Brussels which saw him pissing off out of sight for a bit, then yes, I think doing something to stop him should be pretty easy.

Being photographed in Syria doesn't mean you've been firing bullets at people. It doesn't mean you're engaged in "illegal activities". It provides a strong fucking hint you are, but it's implication and inference.

Unless you advocate internment, I don't see what else the French are supposed to be doing.

[Lewis]

Can you legitimately declare war on people minding their own business, eating their curries of an evening?

It's another one for the 'If it gets to the point where...' file, but yeah, why not?

[Giggles]

Being photographed in Syria doesn't mean you've been firing bullets at people. It doesn't mean you're engaged in "illegal activities". It provides a strong fucking hint you are, but it's implication and inference.

Unless you advocate internment, I don't see what else the French are supposed to be doing.

Sure just let them riddle some of the public with bullets or blow someone having a meal to bits. Just to be 100% sure like.

[Lee]

Being photographed in Syria doesn't mean you've been firing bullets at people. It doesn't mean you're engaged in "illegal activities". It provides a strong fucking hint you are, but it's implication and inference.

Unless you advocate internment, I don't see what else the French are supposed to be doing.

He was a known member of a Brussels terrorist cell.

[Magic]

Thing is, they have thousands of persons (lets not forget this bunch were French citizens too) who have been 'radicalized'. About ten of them have decided to perform terrorist attacks. Suggesting that thousands of people should be locked up because ten of them decided to go on killing sprees is just fucked up.

And a fair few more have been thwarted.

[GS]

Sure just let them riddle some of the public with bullets or blow someone having a meal to bits. Just to be 100% sure like.

I would stress that I'm all for taking a hard line. The European Court of Human Rights, however, are likely to think differently. Such are EU institutions.


He was a known member of a Brussels terrorist cell.

"Known"?

[Giggles]

I would stress that I'm all for taking a hard line. The European Court of Human Rights, however, are likely to think differently. Such are EU institutions.

Then we both know the answer.

[Pepe]

And a fair few more have been thwarted.

Indeed, which means the current system is not as bad as PASSION might makes us think.

[GS]

Then we both know the answer.

We vote to leave the EU, control our own borders and let them do whatever they want?

I'm already voting to leave, as should anyone vaguely sensible. This lot are more interested in preserving Schengen than actually fucking doing something.

[Lee]

I would stress that I'm all for taking a hard line. The European Court of Human Rights, however, are likely to think differently. Such are EU institutions.



"Known"?

Yes, known. The bloke who masterminded this was known by Belgian intelligence to be an accomplice to two terrorists they shot dead earlier this year. They've just launched an inquiry into how they managed to fuck up so badly that he was able to plan and execute the Paris attacks.

[GS]

Is the bloke who masterminded this not still in Syria? Under the protection of IS and able to train terrorists - this training only intermittently interrupted by air strikes that the United Kingdom can't even get a vote through the Commons to join?

[Giggles]

We vote to leave the EU, control our own borders and let them do whatever they want?

I'm already voting to leave, as should anyone vaguely sensible. This lot are more interested in preserving Schengen than actually fucking doing something.

Exactly. I would too but we're tied into that shit for the long haul. Hopefully if you pull out it might lead us down that path at least.

[Yevrah]

I'm not, so attempting to ake it look as though I've changed my stance on any of this is really poor form. I'm advocating treating people who have fought for IS in Syria less fairly than others. I reckon that's pretty reasonable.

I'm not doing that, I just think you're underestimating quite how many people there are on these watchlists and you can't lock them all up.

Fair enough if you're only referring to those who've actually fought in Syria and returned, but as GS points out, even that's not that straightforward.

[Yevrah]

Thing is, they have thousands of persons (lets not forget this bunch were French citizens too) who have been 'radicalized'.

This point seems to have been missed a fair bit since ISIS took responsibility for Friday and the French went to war with a cave.

You can bomb the shit out of said cave, but there are thousands of potential Islamic terrorists in Europe already, fucking thousands of them.

[Lee]

Is the bloke who masterminded this not still in Syria? Under the protection of IS and able to train terrorists - this training only intermittently interrupted by air strikes that the United Kingdom can't even get a vote through the Commons to join?

As I understand it. Apparently he was also behind the attempted train attack. He's a dangerous fucker and he was allowed to escape. That can't be anything but an intelligence failure given that they already knew he was a dangerous fucker.

[Lee]

Fuck me are we now at the point at which membership of the EU is being blamed for a terrorist attack? That's mental. There are several good arguments against membership (I disagree with them all, mind) but this really isn't one of them.

[Giggles]

This point seems to have been missed a fair bit since ISIS took responsibility for Friday and the French went to war with a cave.

You can bomb the shit out of said cave, but there are thousands of potential Islamic terrorists in Europe already, fucking thousands of them.

And at this stage, potential should be enough to warrant removing them.

[Yevrah]

Yes, known. The bloke who masterminded this was known by Belgian intelligence to be an accomplice to two terrorists they shot dead earlier this year. They've just launched an inquiry into how they managed to fuck up so badly that he was able to plan and execute the Paris attacks.

He moved through borders and fell off their radar?

[Magic]

Indeed, which means the current system is not as bad as PASSION might makes us think.

GCHQ and the front line terror police have just been given massive funding from the public pot.

[Yevrah]

And at this stage, potential should be enough to warrant removing them.

Do that and you're at best removing some people who've done nothing wrong and at worst fully aboard the internment train.

[Magic]

How long until we see the 'no terrorist attacks during our term' being trotted out at election time?

[Yevrah]

Fuck me are we now at the point at which membership of the EU is being blamed for a terrorist attack? That's mental.

To blame fully would be mental, but it's surely a factor, no?

[Lee]

He moved through borders and fell off their radar?

Well it would seem so. But if any nation's intelligence service is so thick that they aren't sharing information and jointly tracking people like this in zone where there are no border controls then surely that also constitues a failure? We are able to identify and kill people in barely habitable areas of Pakistan with drones; tracking a bloke across Europe is doable.

[GS]

Fuck me are we now at the point at which membership of the EU is being blamed for a terrorist attack? That's mental. There are several good arguments against membership (I disagree with them all, mind) but this really isn't one of them.

I'm not blaming it. We're outside Schengen and also have the Channel, which makes "policing our borders" a lot easier. However, if you're the French then you aren't able to control who enters your country. The Greeks decide, or the Italians. That presents major problems in terms of tracking people who have been pictured under the IS flag in Syria. You don't know who the Greeks have let in - and once they're in, you don't know where they've gone.

This issue is compounded by a complete failure of EU leadership to address the matter directly. They care more about Schengen than Syria.

The EU is a complete busted flush at this point, unfortunately.

[Giggles]

Do that and you're at best removing some people who've done nothing wrong and at worst fully aboard the internment train.

Removing terrorists + not terrorists > not removing terrorists + not terrorists.

One scenario removes terrorists, one doesn't.

[Spammer]

I read Patrick Cockburn's "The Rise of Islamic State: Isis and the New Sunni Revolution" earlier in the year. It's not his best, but it's probably worth it and I don't know of anything better.

Which Fisk book did you get?

This (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00K4Q3HY6?colid=1OFXKQBPYXHMV&coliid=I3KHB5GYJ1N0K8&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl)

[Dquincy]

How does a Muslim close the door?

Islams it.

:lewis:

[Yevrah]

Removing terrorists + not terrorists > not removing terrorists + not terrorists.

One scenario removes terrorists, one doesn't.

And the scenario that does potentially creates more.

Well, unless you do what Lewis mooted and chuck everyone out.

[Lee]

To blame fully would be mental, but it's surely a factor, no?

So is being an infidel but I'm not about to convert to islam. The EU related factors which made it easier for these chaps to get back in (namely the response to the migrant crisis) aren't things I'd be in favour of changing, personally. You live by your values and you take your chances. These fucks would have found a way to kill innocent people one way or another.

Indeed IS's current advice to young mentalists is to not bother going to Syria at all as it's too difficult to get in and out again. Plan from home. Which is similar to what was advocated by Al Qaeda once they lost their operational ability. This latest attack took a particular level of training (the level of planning can still happen remotely) which most likely did require a holiday in Raqqa but leaving the EU wouldn't do anything to stop mad muslims having a go at killing us.

[Lee]

How does a Muslim close the door?

Islams it.

:lewis:


Best post of the night. :D

[Henry]

This (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00K4Q3HY6?colid=1OFXKQBPYXHMV&coliid=I3KHB5GYJ1N0K8&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl)

Yeah, I've read that too. It's very good and goes into the previous few decades history, but not sure how comprehensive you could say it is.

[simon]

Terrorist attacks are bad and all, but they do create some of the most interesting discussion we ever get on here.

[Lee]

We all love a good terrorist attack, let's be honest. Boston was cracking on here. Friday wasn't bad either. Imagine this place during 9/11? Was it around?

[Pepe]

:nono:

[Giggles]

:nono:

?

I thought you'd have been the one person lolling at the whole thing.

[Yevrah]

In Harold's absence.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH9fvLiGTXI

[Jimmy Floyd]

Fuck me are we now at the point at which membership of the EU is being blamed for a terrorist attack? That's mental. There are several good arguments against membership (I disagree with them all, mind) but this really isn't one of them.
If migrants from Muslim countries are coming into the EU (and they will now do so permanently for the rest of time; let's not pretend migration is more than 10% about war) then a percentage of those will inevitably be Islamists and that's not good enough I'm afraid. If we can't sort out something about stopping the free movement of people while still being in the EU, no sane country in Britain's position would stay in and I imagine that goes for a few others.

The homegrown terrorism thing is different of course but that will sort itself out over time with a good immigration policy.

[Magic]

Similar to the tin hat wearing 'the government did it so they could get more powers to spy on us!' I'm off to begin areet attack to generate some decent discussion.

[Pepe]

?

I thought you'd have been the one person lolling at the whole thing.

When did I lol at the whole thing?

[Yevrah]

Farage goes balls deep on Saudi Arabia's arse in that video.

[Henry]

Farage goes balls deep on Saudi Arabia's arse in that video.

Respect. Those cunts have been the real problem for a very long time.

[phonics]

In Harold's absence.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH9fvLiGTXI

UKIP did the overlay a french flag thing on Facebook which I found a bit wierd.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The guy in charge of Saudi now is a complete moron, so they'll go to shit before long.

The most interesting thing about Islam is how ridiculously quickly it spread at the start based on essentially fuck all other than a sort of loyalty points system (the longer you'd been in Mo's Mob, the more of the loot you got to keep). The Koran is just cobbled together bollocks, far more so than the Bible. And yet we've got here.

[GS]

Respect. Those cunts have been the real problem for a very long time.

What happens if the House of Saud collapses?

[Lee]

The Americans invade and put some new friends in charge of the oil.

[DC]

Jimmy, go home you're drunk.

[simon]

This article is pretty good, especially the first part.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34830626


The mass movement of Syrian refugees tells its own story. While a few thousand alienated young men and women have headed east to Syria, hundreds of thousands of Syrians have headed west to Europe.

In the months that followed the fall of Mosul, there were signs the so-called Islamic State (IS) had learnt an important lesson about how to govern. It knew the Taliban administrations in Afghanistan and small pockets of Pakistan had failed to sustain popular support. In both countries, people had hoped the Taliban could offer an alternative to the existing, corrupt political order. But when they gained power, the Taliban's brutality alienated its support base.

Take the issue of administering justice. Exasperated by the dysfunctional state judicial system, people wanted to believe in the Taliban's promises of speedy justice. But as often as not, the new religious courts consisted of ill-educated clerics handing down capricious verdicts. There were signs when Islamic State started taking territory in Syria, it tried to avoid such mistakes. Local level administrators reassured traders they would be able to run their businesses in a safe and secure environment.

But, while first-hand accounts are few and far between, the evidence suggests IS has failed to follow through on such promises. Furthermore, its leaders are so ill-educated, they will never be able to govern well enough to provide people with jobs. When the Iraqi town of Sinjar was recently retaken by Western-backed Kurdish forces, there was no-one living there. Having killed or terrified Sinjar's residents, IS had ended up running a ghost town.

[Lewis]

The Americans invade and put some new friends in charge of the oil.

Unless the other oil producers feel like rocking the boat to boost prices.

[Raoul Duke]

The best way to fuck up these shithouse countries would be to go balls deep on renewable energy and make them irrelevant. Shame BP/Shell etc. are running the US.

[Lewis]

Or nuke them. That has the added bonus of turning the sand into glass and making the oil easier to find.

[Luca]

Or nuke them. That has the added bonus of turning the sand into glass and making the oil easier to find.

Actual lol at that.

[Spoonsky]

David Cameron is speeching about this on Sky News. 11/9 was before Iraq. How can it have anything to do with Western foreign policy? Get lost, mate.

Are you being serious there?


If migrants from Muslim countries are coming into the EU (and they will now do so permanently for the rest of time; let's not pretend migration is more than 10% about war) then a percentage of those will inevitably be Islamists and that's not good enough I'm afraid. If we can't sort out something about stopping the free movement of people while still being in the EU, no sane country in Britain's position would stay in and I imagine that goes for a few others.

The homegrown terrorism thing is different of course but that will sort itself out over time with a good immigration policy.

The thing is that under normal circumstances, there should (you'd hope) be a way to prevent the large majority of Islamists from entering. That falls down now because of the fucking massive influx of refugees, caused, yes, by war. Three of the four 7/7 bombers were born in England (the other in Jamaica), and the Atocha Station was ultimately blamed on "local cells of Islamic extremists inspired through the Internet." The Charlie Hebdo shooters were born in the 10th Arondissement. As far as I'm aware, Islamists entering the country has only become a real problem during the biggest refugee crisis in 60 years.

[Lewis]

That's what he said. It's a line you hear quite a lot, but I can't help thinking that you would fail a first year terrorism module for writing an essay based on the idea.

[Jimmy Floyd]

A better line is 'tell the Muslims, Yazidis et al that ISIS are slaughtering in Iraq and Syria that it's about western foreign policy'.

[Toby]

Are you being serious there?



The thing is that under normal circumstances, there should (you'd hope) be a way to prevent the large majority of Islamists from entering. That falls down now because of the fucking massive influx of refugees, caused, yes, by war. Three of the four 7/7 bombers were born in England (the other in Jamaica), and the Atocha Station was ultimately blamed on "local cells of Islamic extremists inspired through the Internet." The Charlie Hebdo shooters were born in the 10th Arondissement. As far as I'm aware, Islamists entering the country has only become a real problem during the biggest refugee crisis in 60 years.

Weren't most of these lot "homegrown" as well? I suppose the refugee route allows them to hide from intelligence services upon re-entry, which is presumably when things are most likely to get flagged up.

[SvN]

http://i.imgur.com/lG9OreZ.png

Wonderful stuff.

[niko_cee]

Fuck me are we now at the point at which membership of the EU is being blamed for a terrorist attack? That's mental. There are several good arguments against membership (I disagree with them all, mind) but this really isn't one of them.

Good arguments never win the day, so one side will be screaming 'terrorists!' whilst the other will be going with 'jobs!' in a bid to scaremonger as many votes as possible. Of course, only one side will be scaremongering, as is the way of all things.

As for governments digging holes and depositing undesirable types in them, sounds fool proof.

[Lee]

Putin is now saying he will "find and punish" those who brought down the jet after traces of explosives were found.

Presumably he won't be bombing the Sinai so you can assume that Syria will be getting flattened.

[Kikó]

So we're no closer to actually getting anywhere near the root causes and still dealing with the symptoms. Still, Putin on side is much more fun than against.

[Henry]

The best way to fuck up these shithouse countries would be to go balls deep on renewable energy and make them irrelevant. Shame BP/Shell etc. are running the US.

This.

[Magic]

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/fife/isis-shouts-during-gang-attack-on-asian-shopkeeper-in-fife-1.910663

:face:

[Davgooner]

Embarrassing from start to finish.

[Disco]

Utterly cringeworthy, can we work something out with ISIS so they only blow up twats like this.

[Waffdon]

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/fife/isis-shouts-during-gang-attack-on-asian-shopkeeper-in-fife-1.910663

:face:

Proper dive.

[Boydy]

Interesting article here (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/17/terrorists-belgium-paris-attacks) on why Belgium is so popular with terrorists. It sounds like their intelligence services are a bit useless.

[randomlegend]

I don't want to go any more :moop:

[phonics]

This Twitter feed is doing a 140 char obituary for each victim. I don't even know how I feel about it but it's a hard read.

https://twitter.com/ParisVictims

[Boydy]

That's actually quite a nice tribute, I think.

[phonics]

Yeah, having had more time, I think they've used the platform really well considering how unlikely it is that other publications/platforms will go to the same effort.

[Pepe]

Agreed, might be the first good thing to come out of Twatter.

[Giggles]

Very nicely done I think. Really sad reading such a few simple words but knowing that it's all over for them.

[John Arne]

It's nice, but should it not be in French? Is there a French version?

[phonics]

Why? By the by have you read french? They wouldnt be able to fit it into that many characters.

[John Arne]

Why? Er... Because they are French, so it seems apt. What a stupid question.

[Mazuuurk]

Not all of them are from france, I suppose.

Anyway, it's a little extra terrible that all these people are so young. Which I guess was sort of the intention as well, seeing how they picked the targets.

[Lewis]

It's comforting to think that you would have avoided it had it happened during your time there.

[Lewis]

Putin has told his navy to 'establish direct contact with the French and work with them as allies'. He doesn't miss a trick does he?

[Mazuuurk]

It's comforting to think that you would have avoided it had it happened during your time there.

I'm not sure what you mean by that at all? I was around 21 when I lived in Paris. I worked about 3 minutes from one of the attacks, had lunch in the place a few times. I almost only went out in that neighbourhood. I'm pretty sure I've been to Le Carillon and Bataclan at some points as well, although I may confuse Bataclan with a different concert place.

[Henry]

Putin has told his navy to 'establish direct contact with the French and work with them as allies'. He doesn't miss a trick does he?

Everything else aside, there are significant problems with the Russians working with anyone else. Their radios and other technology aren't compatible, they can't share encryption methods etc.

[Lewis]

I'm not sure what you mean by that at all? I was around 21 when I lived in Paris. I worked about 3 minutes from one of the attacks, had lunch in the place a few times. I almost only went out in that neighbourhood. I'm pretty sure I've been to Le Carillon and Bataclan at some points as well, although I may confuse Bataclan with a different concert place.

It took place at night, so you would have been smashed and playing FM/talking to us on MSN.

[Magic]

At the risk of being outed as a cunt, is anyone else watching the game tonight purely in case anything kicks off?

[Giggles]

At the risk of being outed as a cunt, is anyone else watching the game tonight purely in case anything kicks off?

I wouldnt waste your time. It's probably the safest place anyone could be tonight.

Might be a good game though.

[Waffdon]

Germany/Holland game cancelled and ground being evacuated.

[phonics]

Future President Taft explains how the US just can't take any Jews in 1939 as they'd take opportunities away from American citizens.

666595097476075520

[Giggles]

Strange one. I know you can't take any chances but this lot don't do warnings, they would have just acted.

[phonics]

Where have you got the idea of a warning from? A suspicious package was found.

[Giggles]

Where have you got the idea of a warning from? A suspicious package was found.

Ah right. I'd read some reports of a telephoned warning, which seemed very strange. Package makes more sense.

[phonics]

The weirder thing being that they found it, stopped people coming in, started letting them in and then evacuated the place.

[Giggles]

Though that said, do this lot do 'packages' either? Arent they always strapped to someone as Allah desires?

[phonics]

I doubt there's a bomb even there. They just won't take the risk.

[Giggles]

I doubt there's a bomb even there. They just won't take the risk.

Which does make sense. They can't. Won't be the last event this happens to either.

[Waffdon]

Ambulance full of explosives, it seems.

edit: oh, other thread.

[DC]

These are my favourite articles on the Daily Heil (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3322385/Ex-wife-Comptoir-Voltaire-caf-bomber-reveals-jobless-layabout-spent-day-bed-smoking-pot-French-say-blew-mistake-fiddling-suicide-vest.html), both claiming a lake of devout faith, drug use, laziness, and then woosh all dangerous and deadly.

In their ignorance as a paper they demonstrate the difficulty of actually typecasting "Muslims", and the challenge to security services, because some do drink, do smoke, and do live irreligious lives the same way nominally Christian and Jewish people do (but we rarely mention their religion or ethnicity in their articles).

The idea that the fact he was known to the police for petty crimes is significant demonstrates the level of detachment the media has from reality when composing this drivel.

[Mazuuurk]

It took place at night, so you would have been smashed and playing FM/talking to us on MSN.

Yeah fair enough. Those were some pretty fun days :drool:

[Boydy]

Future President Taft explains how the US just can't take any Jews in 1939 as they'd take opportunities away from American citizens.


Future president?

I think you've got the wrong Taft.

[Magic]

They've closed the subway in Hannover something else has been found.

[Dquincy]

Bet it's all nothing.

[Magic]

Apparently the police raids uncovered a shit load of genuine police uniforms with the weapons...

[John Arne]

They've closed the subway in Hannover something else has been found.

I found a pube in my meatball marinara once.

[Benny]

Where are you reading this shit, Magic? If it's Twitter, I'd wait until it's on a more reputable source before getting your knickers in a twist.

[Giggles]

I found a pube in my meatball marinara once.

I'd say you wouldn't be the first either.

[Magic]

Must have been your own, the kids you fuck haven't started puberty yet.

[Magic]

Where are you reading this shit, Magic? If it's Twitter, I'd wait until it's on a more reputable source before getting your knickers in a twist.

If it's wrong so what?

[Giggles]

Twitter rumours are class. No worse than watching Sky News or reading a red top.

[Dquincy]

Twitter rumours are class. No worse than watching Sky News or reading a red top.

Nah, Twitter is worse as there are so many more nobheads. It's magnified. Free speech is over rated.

[Kikó]

The French have been reveling in the English singing the national anthem. The touch seems to have been well received.

[Magic]

Nah, Twitter is worse as there are so many more nobheads. It's magnified. Free speech is over rated.

Case in point every time you exercise that right.

[phonics]

Future president?

I think you've got the wrong Taft.

Well, that's embarrassing.

[Magic]

German officials say no explosives found.

[Mazuuurk]

People are seeing ghosts a little everywhere now it seems.

[Magic]

French secret police notified the Germans of a direct threat so no wonder they evacuated.

[Dquincy]

Case in point every time you exercise that right.

Fuck off.

[Magic]

:eyemouth:

[Lee]

http://journal.ijreview.com/2015/11/250238-what-defeating-isis-would-look-like/

This is fantastic. :D

[Boom-Boom]

Did they actually discover an ambulance full of explosives or was that a false rumour?

I heard it on the radio earlier this evening but can't find much about it.

[Lee]

It was bollocks. I like the German Interior Minister's response when asked about how real threat was. Something along the lines of "I can't answer as it would scare the population". Well done, mate.

[Lewis]

http://journal.ijreview.com/2015/11/250238-what-defeating-isis-would-look-like/

This is fantastic. :D

Finally somebody gets it.

[DC]

No, that person gets it wrong. That's the mentality of MacArthur and his war across Pacific islands using largely the same tactic. It failed miserably and cost hundreds of thousands of lives because they underestimated everything - including the effectiveness of carpet bombing.

That's the mentality of the Korean War....drawn, and left North Korea to be a menace in perpetuity.

That's the mentality of the Vietnam War...resounding loss.

You can't revisit failed tactics because they allow you to have a flag-wank while you're thinking about just how much johnny foreigner is going to pay for his misdeeds.

You build absolute complete and utter resentment, not fear, respect or admiration amongst your allies and enemies (and it's how we got to this state already)...and after the initial popularity rise, every President has always lost their majority within the duration of the war, and the public opinion with it.

[phonics]

I'm pretty sure it's satire.

[Lewis]

I've seen several films where the Americans won their war in the Pacific, so I'm not sure 'failed miserably' is fair. That could just be the films though. Similar story in Korea where the half-arsed United Nations bummed them all the way to the Chinese border within a couple of months. Vietnam. Hard to say. I don't think they tried hard enough.

So yes, you can kill your way out of a hole.

[DC]

No, no it's not satire.

Tongue in cheek mayhaps, but not satirical. He is presenting the Conservative ideal, whether he believes in it personally or not...and is closer to believing it than not.

[elth]

I suppose there isn't in the way I've put them but if you read Elth's post he's saying there's no one else in the middle east to support but Saudi Arabia, which implies they should keep supporting them.

Basically, he's pretty much always just a contrarian bastard who just likes to go 'well, actually...' in any thread he can.

That's really not the implication I think most people would draw there, or one I agree with. I'm merely going further than the article I linked in that I ascribe the failure to confront Saudi Arabia over it's support for terrorism to a deliberate and knowing policy on behalf of the West, for strategic reasons, whereas the article does not address why nobody confronts Saudi Arabia or other gulf states who overtly support Islamic terrorism.

Noting the reasons for a situation existing shouldn't be construed as support for it.

[Spoonsky]

It's comforting to think that you would have avoided it had it happened during your time there.

My friend who was in Paris last week took a plane to Porto with her brothers for a day's jaunt on Friday morning and then came back Saturday morning. Lucky bastard she is, in more ways than one.

[DC]

I've seen several films where the Americans won their war in the Pacific, so I'm not sure 'failed miserably' is fair. That could just be the films though. Similar story in Korea where the half-arsed United Nations bummed them all the way to the Chinese border within a couple of months. Vietnam. Hard to say. I don't think they tried hard enough.

So yes, you can kill your way out of a hole.

By failed miserably I mean that, compared to the plan they put out there, they met none of their principal objectives. In particular if you look at the original plan for the Pacific it didn't involve losing several hundred thousand men or taking 4 years...same for Korea...same for Vietnam.

While Patton careened around Europe cutting off supply chains and outmanoeuvring the enemy, MacArthur walked his troops into every ambush (armour or no armour) and carpet bombed the bejeezus out of the jungle to no avail other than killing indigenous life.

That's what Schlicter is espousing. Not smart tactics, just the usual indiscriminate boots on the ground and hope that the badguy does what we think it will while we drive around in our impervious tanks (not) carpet bombing the sand into dust.

Watch the Russians. If they don't do it, the US certainly shouldn't.