The Ultimate WWE Thread

[Ben]

FTR vs Briscoes III was tremendous. Again. A proper old school feud and I didn't think a dog collar match would be much good but it was.

Recommend.

[Gray Fox]

Seems like 420 Stoner Bro is more than just a stoner, bro.

Stuff also popping up about his divorce that's not making him look fantastic either.

[Ian]

So being Keith's mate isn't enough to also make you immune to the Wellness Policy?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1601416396579168257

Oh shit.

[Baz]

Camera angle change kinda ruins that.

[Browning]

McMahon has reportedly told people he plans to make a comeback at WWE, according to people close to the situation. He has said that he received bad advice from people close to him to step down, and that he now believes the allegations and investigations would have blown over had he stayed, according to these people.

:drool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He's also facing new legal demands from the women he sexually assaulted.

[Ian]

Still hoping he gets a big offer from Cocaine Tony.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1603072531610705921

Holy shit.

[Ben]

Deleted?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1603075265126871042

Mandy Rose fired.

[Ian]

I mean, she'll probably make more money doing that sort of thing.

Also explains why whatsername got her Iron Survivor shot, and won the title, so quickly.

[7om]

I saw one of her vids that someone posted on Reddit. Good god.

[Ian]

Is that a recommendation, or...?

[Ben]

This is my weekly “Ricky Starks is awesome” post. A classic plucky underdog vs. slimy heel match and another great promo. It looks like they might sidestep him into a Jericho feud or some shit so if previous AEW is anything to go by, they’ll cool him right off.

Speaking of Jericho, he got beat by some jobber I’ve literally never heard of. The match was put together really well though and the crowd were all over it. It’s amazing what this company could do if they think about their booking.

[Baz]

Let’s go jobber! :D

Absolutely can’t wait for the [inevitable] ladder match between The Elite and Death Triangle to finish the series.

Less stoked about MJF seemingly having a feud with Borin’ Danielson though.

[Ben]

Danielson > EVPs

[Baz]

Absolutely tripe.

2009 Daniel Bryan* perhaps, but right now it’s not even close.



*I’d even doubt “prime DB” was as good as Kenny Omega is, but I’m not a fair judge

[Ben]

If we are talking about overly cooperative spotfests then I’d agree, but this is wrestling. Omega and to a lesser degree PAC are more than capable of being great wrestlers but they’re far too easily swayed by the other four idiots. I’m looking forward to Omega vs. Ospreay at Wrestle Kingdom although I don’t know where Omega is physically these days.

[Ian]

but this is wrestling.

https://y.yarn.co/3b5b2592-6d0f-4ccb-a6e7-038fd11d3a4d_text.gif

You're defending Danielson so keep going, I just immediately thought of that. :D

[Ben]

I'm going to watch an old McGuinness vs. Danielson match just to remind myself what wrestling should be.

[Ian]

I need to watch some McGuinness. I never saw any of his stuff but have heard great thing.

[Ben]

Baz won't like him.

[Ben]

Ian start here (https://vimeo.com/243003979)

Or if you're on XWT you can get the full feud with all 10 matches between them.

[Ian]

Cheers, I've bookmarked that one.

15 fun minutes from Gunther and Ricochet on Smackdown. And it's nice that the crowd are quite into Ricochet now, with HHH have doing the super obvious thing of just letting the man wrestle and crowds realise he's great. Dunno if he'll be done chasing the IC title for now but if he is they need to keep going with him.

[Ben]

I'll watch that one later I think. Seems they also taped next week's SmackDown and the card looks like the ultimate phone-in. :D

[Disco]

I'm not sure I like the idea that there's a particular way that wrestling 'should be'. Like what you like, the best thing about AEW has been the variety on the card compared to WWE, you can see all different types of wrestlers/wrestling. The y use and book them oddly at times but they're there.

[Gray Fox]

Big Match John back for a pointless main event on Smackdown, to keep his streak of having a match every year for 20 years alive.

[Ben]

I'm not sure I like the idea that there's a particular way that wrestling 'should be'. Like what you like, the best thing about AEW has been the variety on the card compared to WWE, you can see all different types of wrestlers/wrestling. The y use and book them oddly at times but they're there.

As in style? I appreciate pretty much every style of wrestling but all this obviously cooperative shit whilst flipping off the basics is where I draw the line. I mean, when you have to get the referee to ignore something obvious, or worse, actively participate in the setup so you can do a spot, you’ve jumped the shark. That’s why I bash the Bucks et al.

[Baz]

16 years since Jeff Hardy broke Joey Mercurys face, apparently.

[Ben]

Other than Hayabusa falling directly on his dome and paralysing myself, no other injury sticks out like that one. Awful.

MNM underrated tag team as well.

[wullie]

Sid's leg snapping is still top of the pops for me, especially as they carried on around him as well.

[Ben]

Ah shit yeah don’t know how I forgot that. I used to love Sid. :D

[Ian]

Was it Ray Fenix whose arm visibly broke and went all the wrong way round on TV recently? It was pretty grim whoever it was.

[Baz]

Was it Ray Fenix whose arm visibly broke and went all the wrong way round on TV recently? It was pretty grim whoever it was.

Was indeed. Courtesy of a Luchasaurus chokeslam, unsurprisingly.

[Ben]

How does one break their arm on a chokeslam bump?

[Baz]

How does one break their arm on a chokeslam bump?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GMoAtRdzoI

[phonics]

There’s a really bad one where a guy jumps down from the top rope and breaks both his legs at the shins.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Big E having his neck broken on a suplex was pretty tough to watch.

As was Ridge Holland trying to catch someone in NXT only to see both his legs blow up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9U4KnAJpRY

[Baz]

Ricky Starks saying Jericho was built like an air fryer. :D

[Ben]

This bad boy popped up on my YouTube recommendations, so I had to watch it because I never realised Undertaker wrestled in WAR.

Undertaker vs. (King) Haku. Yokohama, Japan, 1992.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXbAgZy-j04

So a bit of background from what I recall: this was around the time the NJPW and WCW relationship was strong so Vince decided he needed a Japanese partner because wrestling in Japan was so hot at this point whereas the US scene was in the shitter. Baba (AJPW) had gone completely isolationist after being burned by the NWA so Vince turned to Genichiro Tenryu who had left both big Japanese promotions and gone alone with the backing of some mark, creating SWS. Eventually the money dried up and SWS died but Tenryu found another money man and set up WAR straight after so it's basically the same promotion. So I'm guessing WWF and WAR did a few crossover shows and this match is on one of them. It's notable for a few things, firstly the entrance is probably the first one of the Undertaker's that is completely wild and paved the way for them to become commonplace in later years. Also Haku was a big name in SWS/WAR so he gets a lot of offence in this match, way more than anyone else did against Undertaker in the early years. And then the crowd couldn't give less of a shit about the finish. I don't think they liked the over-the-top gimmick at all.

[Ian]

I really like Swerve but "Mogul Affiliates" is just a bad stable name.

[Browning]

If a pitch black match is what it sounds like, HHH is a booking God.

[Ian]

Man fuckin' loves a gimmick, doesn't he?

[Baz]

Did you enjoy the Christmas tree spot, Ben ?

[Ben]

What’s this? :D

[Baz]

What’s this? :DIn match 4 of the Trios series, Penta retrieved a Christmas tree from the entrance and set it up in the corner of the ring. The Elite were all whipped into it, one after the other, while the commentary went crazy over the UNFORGIVING ARTIFICIAL PINE NEEDLES.

[Ben]

Good to see that them trying to have a serious match descended into nonsense comedy.

[Baz]

Brandon Cutler was an elf.

[Ben]

What’s the deal with his face mask thing? Is it some gimp joke?

[Baz]

What’s the deal with his face mask thing? Is it some gimp joke?

I remember reading he broke his nose in a match with Penta and then just kept it cos it made him more memorable. Basically sums up how lame he is.

[wullie]

They could do without the entourage, the entrance looks decent until the lights come on and suddenly it's double the dorks.

[Ben]

Callis is ok for what he is but Cutler and Nakazawa are so small time. No casual fan will take them seriously with those two goofs in tow.

The Americans like to take TV ratings seriously and 10-15% are tuning out every time they’re on TV. Not a good look.

[Disco]

Lame goons only really work for heels. Cutler is at least good at being inept and it's a thousand times better than the dungeons and dragons gimmick he had before.

[Baz]

+1 for not liking lame goons.

Even Danhausen is pretty irrelevant now.

[Ben]

Lame goons only really work for heels. Cutler is at least good at being inept and it's a thousand times better than the dungeons and dragons gimmick he had before.

The Bucks as smarmy heels is the only time I could begin to give a shit them so in that sense all the stars are aligned if they could have got past their own egos and stayed that way instead of going down this “play with Kenny in meaningless trios matches” nonsense.

[wullie]

Death triangle as well, great looking entrance all mean and moody and then some other fella runs out waving at everybody and killing the entire thing. I swear AEW could sack half their staff and you'd be hard pressed to notice.

[Ben]

I just watched the Women’s title match from Dynamite this week. It was a really good TV match but it wasn’t as great as Twitter is making it out to be (nowhere near the Storm match at Full Gear). But Hayter is the future of women’s wrestling. She’s got the basics, psychology, timing, positioning, look, size. Hardly anyone in wrestling, male or female, has that these days unfortunately. Other than MJF, I don’t think there’s anyone I look forward to seeing more (I would say FTR but they’ve been ruined and I would say Starks but he’s feuding with Jericho now and I don’t have the confidence that they’ll put him over).

[Baz]

I swear AEW could sack half their staff and you'd be hard pressed to notice.

First to go? Stokely Hathaway.

[Ben]

Just have a look through the amount of matches on the Dark tapings, there must be 200 under contract. Tony can barely write storylines to entertain 10 of them, no wonder there are so many “stars” in purgatory.

[Shindig]

Is there going to be a situation where AEW's hour count of TV hits WWE's? 'cos fuck that.

[Ian]

Just have a look through the amount of matches on the Dark tapings, there must be 200 under contract. Tony can barely write storylines to entertain 10 of them, no wonder there are so many “stars” in purgatory.

Dunno if this is much of a contributing factor but I saw somebody (Meltzer? Alvarez?) talking about Miro and saying he in particular but also other ex-WWE guys are a bit "leery" of doing jobs for no obvious reason on TV but with promises of getting something back down the road because, y'know, WWE. So there's possibly a group of his roster who he's signed with promises that "nah we're not like that other place! You're gonna do great here! Big plans!" only to then either get nothing or bad plans for you.

The roster bloat is real. I dunno if it's worse than WWE's was before Vince started firing everybody but if not it must be getting there and now HHH is doing it again as well. I'll be interested to see if his comments on people needing to do well within a certain amount of time or their contracts will be allowed to run down will actually come to anything. He must be a bit disappointed in how some of them have performed. Kross and Hit Row in particular. But then bringing back the latter sans-Swerve was always going to be a risk, especially direct to main roster.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Hit Row would be fine without Swerve if he was replaced, just having him not there made it feel like there was a massive hole.

Also, yeah Triple H has started the bloat and I think that's why I've stopped watching the weekly shows, they were very good when he first came in as they were fairly precise in what they were doing but it's now a bit flabby.

[Ben]

Dunno if this is much of a contributing factor but I saw somebody (Meltzer? Alvarez?) talking about Miro and saying he in particular but also other ex-WWE guys are a bit "leery" of doing jobs for no obvious reason on TV but with promises of getting something back down the road because, y'know, WWE. So there's possibly a group of his roster who he's signed with promises that "nah we're not like that other place! You're gonna do great here! Big plans!" only to then either get nothing or bad plans for you.

I’m on the side of the wrestlers in that doing jobs on TV for no reason is bad because Tony thinks booking random matches on TV with no rhyme or reason but good workers is good booking which is absolute nonsense, but then at the same time these guys will probably go back to WWE and do the same thing so whatever. But at least Triple H is incapable of booking clean finishes on TV so they might get protected a bit.

[Browning]

People wanking themselves silly over Bray Wyatt having a 3 minute match with Jinder Mahal :drool:

They'll never learn.

[Ben]

I finally got round to watching that Gunther vs. Ricochet match from Smackdown a few weeks ago. Readers of this thread might be surprised to learn Ricochet isn't really my cup of tea but this match was great considering it was a TV match and Gunther made Ricochet look really good. The high flying was toned down so when he did it, it actually meant something (that SSP was glorious). Funny how an actual wrestling match as opposed to mindless flips gets the crowd engaged (when was the last time a WWE crowd popped hard for a suplex and two count?). I can't recall a better TV match in WWE this year.

[Ian]

Ricochet has never really been egregiously flippy in his NXT/ WWE work. I mean he is a high flyer obviously but it's not been gymnastics dressed up as a wrestling match.

It was a really fun match though. They're obvious foils for each other and I wouldn't be against them getting a proper big PPV match at some point.

[Browning]

I was there live and near the front for Ricochet/Ospreay when the top rope broke. About as flippy as they come… and it was immense.

[phonics]

Acclaimed burying Jarrett :cool:

[Ben]

Dragon Lee has signed for WWE. Of all the flippy guys out there, he’s one of the best. But he doesn’t speak English so I guess he’s confined to NXT.

[Baz]

Shame that. He’s one of the best sellers I’ve ever seen.

I still swear he was out cold for the one-winged angel.

[Ben]

Apparently there is a bit more to this. Lee wanted to work New Japan but can’t as long as he works with AAA because of NJPW’s deal with CMLL (big rivalry between those two Mexican companies). Lee burned his bridges with CMLL so NJPW won’t sign him out of respect for that partnership. And now Dorian Roldan (AAA owner) has praised WWE’s signing of Lee because apparently he wants to dump AEW and partner with WWE.

There was a big AAA show last night in which FTR lost their titles and Sammy/Tay were stripped of theirs (for supposedly no-showing three times) so now AAA has no outstanding obligations to AEW contracted wrestlers.

The deal for Lee to WWE has supposedly been finalised a while but AAA wanted to wait until they jettisoned the AEW talent before announcing it. Lee won a title last night so winning a title on his way out would have looked really odd if all this wasn’t transpiring behind the scenes.

[wullie]

Is he the guy they unmasked after a match on AEW and never referred to it again?

[Ben]

Yeah that’s him. :D

Tony Khan Booker of the Year.

[phonics]

This is what I was referring to by the way. Lots of fun little lines in there.

1608287881285758976

[Browning]

Probably would have worked better without Billy Gunn being there.

[Ben]

I watched some wrestling last night and this morning. Here are some of my thoughts.

AAA: I scanned through the show because of the FTR match (also involving Dragon Lee) but it was shite. Proper wrestlers can't cut it in AAA, it's a world to itself. They also mentioned Dragon Lee would be wrestling for WWE "on Tuesdays" so maybe he's got a dual contract. There was also a mental match in the middle involving a clown called Dave, a crossdresser called Jessy Ventura and a fat terrible wrestler called Hamburgesa. El Hijo del Vikingo could be great.

AEW: if it takes Danielson 16 minutes to beat Ethan Page then there's no way he beats MJF so why should I care about that feud? Also Ethan Page is pretty crap in the ring, he's just a moves guy who doesn't know why he's doing them, they should keep him to short matches and heel promos. He's actually good on the mic so why does he need Stokely? He should just fuck off. Speaking of fucking off, these continued backstage health check skits with Hangman and the fat goofy cunt in the background are awful. The BCC vs. Top Flight match was good because the young kids could bump around but it was too long, two main event guys should be putting these kids away a lot quicker. Tony ignores logic in the pursuit of Meltzer stars. The crowd goes mad for Hook but I don't get the hype. Same for Jungle Boy who just has no fire in his mannerisms despite having the look of the quintessential fiery underdog babyface. Big Bill (I guess that's his name now) looks fucking awesome but his inevitable match will be pants. Starks is ruined now he's feuding with Jericho. You all know my opinions on the Best of Seven stuff and the stip made this even worse because these guys can't do the walk and brawl thing. I hope Omega is saving himself for the Ospreay match at WK next week because he was tragic here. I skipped after PAC kicked out of a powerbomb onto a garbage can (how is that not a three count?). Samoa Joe is a proper badass heel now and it's great but they've ruined my boy Wardlow to get there.

WWE: Raw being a Best of 2022 was a pleasant surprise.

NJPW: the final Suzuki-gun match was brilliant if you're into them and know their history.

Need to watch yesterday's Stardom show because apparently the World title match is great.

[Ian]

Do you mean re: WWE because it's nice that they're actually giving people some time off over Christmas now?

[Ben]

No because otherwise Raw would be shite. :D

But yeah sure that too.

[wullie]

Guessing Big Bill is the old Big Cass? Good move if so because 'W Morrissey' is such a clunky name.

[Browning]

Surely it's Goldberg.

[Ben]

Don West has died. Kind of coincidental considering he named AJ Styles’ Pele Kick.

He used to get mixed reviews back in the day but my God he was the best hypeman going. He’d get you invested in all of the crap Russo dreamed up.

[SvN]

Wait until Lewis sees Cena's bald spot.

[Ian]

Just skimmed through Smackdown. His bald spot gets bigger every time you see it. And that's some shiner Owens got.

Similarly earlier Gunther appears to have taken an inadvertent chairshot to the head and got BUSTED WIDE OPEN as well.

Lastly, that is about the most Charlotte title win imaginable.

[Gray Fox]

Wait until Lewis sees Cena's bald spot.

I've just seen this. Give it up John lad, just shave it off.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I've just seen this. Give it up John lad, just shave it off.

https://staticg.sportskeeda.com/editor/2017/09/57f29-1505828119-800.jpg

[Ben]

When did Jordan Devlin and Zack Gibson fall victim to the NXT random name generator? Just awful.

[Lewis]

Wait until Lewis sees Cena's bald spot.

An egg in the nest. He's had it for years but keeping his hair short masked it a bit.

[Shindig]

Rise above hat.

[Ian]

When did Jordan Devlin and Zack Gibson fall victim to the NXT random name generator? Just awful.

Around the same time a few months ago I think.

I've decided to accept Gunther since they've changed the name but are, now Vince is gone, treating him seriously, but the GYV name and now gimmick changes are grim.

They weren't the level of the peak NXT tag division but they were really good.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I loved the Grizzled Young Vets, they were great and part of a seriously strong NXT UK tag division.

Even Pretty Deadly who look like twats are seriously talented.

[7om]

So is it Bo Dallas playing Uncle Howdy?

[Ben]

It was me all along, Austin.

[wullie]

The new names are shit as per but one small plus is that they are back to wearing wrestling gear when actually wrestling. Joe Gacy spent the last year just looking like a fat estate agent in every match

[Ben]

I should really add some NXT back into the rotation. Vince’s version drove me away.

[Ben]

1609496705132535808

Nope.

[Disco]

Who needs all those vertebrae anyway.

[Ian]

Absolutely not.

[Shindig]

You can get by with one kidney.

[Lewis]

What is he trying to do there?

[Ian]

I assume that's exactly what was intended given it's Japan, unless he in fact meant to throw him on his head.

[Disco]

Hard to tell, probably meant to be a more flat back landing but as you say it's Japan so entirely possible he intended to spike him right on the top of his head.

[Disco]

Similar to but still not as bad as this one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TAnpzsmEAM

[Ben]

1609496705132535808

Nope.

I've just watched this full match and it was really good to be fair. The spot did make sense in that it fit in with how Kenoh was attacking Kiyomiya throughout (so to answer the questions, it was intentional) and I suppose if you want to do something completely mental like this, you do it in the big annual show at Nippon Budokan when you're about to retain the World title. Because Muta and Nakamura took the main event, this only got 18 minutes. On one hand it suited the match, because NOAH usually has the NJPW problem of all World title matches needing to go 30+ minutes regardless of who is in it (Kojima, Fujita etc.) so it was fresh to see a sprint, but at the same time I felt they could have easily gone another five at this pace and added something more to the match. Kenoh is great, he has great fire and feeds for his opponent flawlessly. Kiyomiya I think there's something missing, his offence seems a bit weak outside of the final stretch, but he is a bit more of a star and they need to run with him as champion for a while (eight champions in the last 18 months is not good). I've not watched NOAH in a long time but this got me interested. Their production might be the best in the world; camera work is flawless (on NJPW level), very helpful on-screen graphics that puts the product over as serious and legitimate and they shoot in fucking 8K (they're owned by CyberAgent).

Speaking of Nakamura and Muta, it was a great spectacle for the entrances and initial face-off but at the end of the day, Muta can't move anymore and it was a complete carry job by Nakamura, who to be fair actually turned up motivated for once. But that puts a pretty low ceiling on the match. They went about 18 minutes as well I think and it felt a lot longer. The counter to the mist was cute though.

[Baz]

I’m glad Kip Sabian survived the box gimmick and is now very relevant again. Was even good on commentary.

The Darby/Sting promo was great. The Jay Lethal one really wasn’t. :sick: I don’t think anybody in the world would miss him and JJ. Can’t believe they’ve got them feuding with the Acclaimed while FTR aren’t doing anything.

Preston Vance is also pretty great.

[Ben]

Baz continuing to be the opposite of me in his likes/dislikes. :D

[Ben]

1610181853843173377

Which one of these guys has been in Essex for the last six weeks? :D

[Shindig]

Swearing in promos, man. Moderate that shit. :D

[Ben]

I'd barely unmuted the video at the start before he called someone a "cunt" off camera. :D

[Ian]

"NO BIGGER THAN A BROOM CUPBOARD, BRUV"

Alright lad, simmer down.

[Baz]

Baz continuing to be the opposite of me in his likes/dislikes. :D

I'd love for Tony "best physique in sports" Nese to beat Borin' Danielzzzon.

[Ben]

Tony Khan's booking won't help this. He'll give them minimum 12 minutes and it'll be a competitive match just so the crowd can chant "this is awesome" and Meltzer can throw some stars at it.

In reality, Nese is never on TV so he's a nobody (I do like him but he's just in the bucket with the other 50 wrestlers Tony has bungled) and they're trying to build Danielson as a World title contender so Bryan should win in five minutes like an absolute badass. People like you might like him a bit more in that case if you see him going apeshit, and people like me might not treat the eventual title match as an afterthought because the result is a foregone conclusion.

Anyway...

[Disco]

They love an English swear word in the Jap-Graps, Taka Michinoku used to have them in his entrance music.

[Ben]

Gedo and "you muthafuckaaaaa" - name a more iconic duo. Apparently he loves old Memphis wrestling which is where he gets that from.

[Queenslander]

It's sad to see Shingo walk out for the banter rumble.

[Ben]

Meanwhile we've got Karl fucking Anderson in a title match.

[phonics]

I’m no fashion icon but c’mon Sasha, that hair is awful.

[Ben]

Bam Bam Bigelow throwback.

The internet is going absolutely insane for this Ospreay-Omega match. I'll do one of my bitchy reviews in here when I get round to watching it.

[SvN]

I watched the post-match thing with Sasha and it was so cringe.

[Ben]

1610720936746942503

:cool:

[Ian]

:D

[Ben]

Bryan Danielson defeats Tony Nese (3:26)

Tony Khan reads my posts. :cool:

[Browning]

Money in the Bank is coming to London.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I've never been to a wrestling show before, I might drag myself to that though.

[wullie]

That's probably the next best thing outside the proper big shows, not bad.

[Ian]

They certainly consider MITB one of their Big Five now and that's probably not unreasonable, even if crusties like me still consider it a big four. I might keep an eye out and see what tickets are liable to cost but if they're doing UK shows on the reg now then Scotland might get one eventually.

[Browning]

I kind of feel like even if it's a Big 4, MITB should be in place of Survivor Series. That's really died a death over the last few years.

[Ben]

MITB is probably dying too. The whole briefcase thing is a bit of a hindrance now, as evidenced by Theory's booking.

[Ian]

I don't personally like WarGames matches but their introduction as a thing to funnel a story at this year at least made it feel like they gave a shit about Survivor Series. I hope it's not always The WarGames Show but we'll see what happens I guess.

MITB probably needs a break though really. WWE don't spam ladder matches quite as badly as they used to but I still feel like I've seen all the cash-ins they can currently think of* and they keep buggering it up.

* Aside from the really obvious one they refuse to do which is if you've got a hard lad babyface with the briefcase (they could've done this with any of Big E, Boatman, Lesnar if you want to call him a face at the time (rather than just A Lesnar)) tell the heel when they'll be having their title match and basically count down to that from however far in advance you like with the heel getting increasingly desperate to get out of the match somehow.

[Ben]

PPVs built around an entire gimmick are rarely good. Hell in a Cell is atrocious because every feud gets wedged into a Cell match when the story doesn’t call for it so we just end up seeing the same recycled spots and when there is finally a feud that would benefit from a Cell match, the bloom is off the rose.

Tangent aside, MITB isn’t needed because we see ladder matches all the time anyway and a wrestler lugging the briefcase about for the rest of the year doesn’t contribute to the stories anymore. They blew all the (few) good ideas using it in the early years.

Having said that, a rabid UK crowd will at least make the event itself good this year.

[wullie]

I liked it when valiant Daniel Bryan announced he'd cash in at Wrestlemania and then got his chance, said fuck it and turned into the dickhead that basically made the rest of his career

[Shindig]

Hell in a Cell should be an undercard of normal matches supporting a Cell match that main events. Put the mystique back into it. I don't know how to shake up Money in the Bank. Make it one briefcase for the whole company?

Has anyone had a fake briefcase ruse? Or blown it up? Briefcases explode all the time in movies.

[Ben]

I wouldn’t even have the PPV named after it, because you’re conditioning the fans that they’ll see a Cell match every year at the same time. They should happen organically when the storyline, not the schedule, calls for it. That’s partly why the early ones were great. Even Undertaker vs Brock in 2002 would blow anything from the last decade out of the water.

[Ian]

Hell in a Cell shouldn't be a show, agreed. It should be used to cap particularly intense feuds, and once a year at the very most. I don't mind Elimination Chamber as a "this is to decide who goes for the belt the Rumble winner isn't" because six way feuds aren't often going to be a normal thing.

[Gray Fox]

Hell in a Cell should be an undercard of normal matches supporting a Cell match that main events. Put the mystique back into it. I don't know how to shake up Money in the Bank. Make it one briefcase for the whole company?

Has anyone had a fake briefcase ruse? Or blown it up? Briefcases explode all the time in movies.

MiTB has looked shit since the Rollins cash in because that was literally the perfect cash in. The Sheamus one on Reigns was also great at the time.

The problem lately is that you either have it cashed in on the same night as it has been won a lot(Womens' briefcase especially bad for this), or you have it held by someone who becomes "not the guy" over some time.

Though knowing WWE, Reigns will end up winning that as well next year.

[Ian]

Nah, Bork again when he's not in the match and then he'll declare once again YOU AIN'T BEAT ME ROMAN!!!!! Despite Roman having kicked out of more F5s at this point than I've had hit dinners.

[7om]

MITB peaked with the Ziggler cash in on Del Rio and hit rock bottom when Sandow won it and then immediately jobbed to everyone on the roster.

Get rid of it.

[Ian]

I think based on chat in here previously Ziggler vs. Rollins cash ins really depends when you were watching. It's Rollins for me. (Clive.)

Same night cash ins also wore thin quick but Ambrose on Rollins was good as those go just because the crowd were so fucking up for it.

[wullie]

GREENWICH, Conn., Jan. 5, 2023 /PRNewswire/ -- Vince McMahon, the founder and controlling shareholder of World Wrestling Entertainment Inc. ("WWE" or the "Company") (NYSE: WWE), announced today that he has taken necessary actions to position the Company to capitalize on a unique opportunity to maximize long-term value for all WWE shareholders. The actions, communicated to WWE's Board of Directors today via written consent, include the election to the Board of Mr. McMahon, as well as Michelle Wilson and George Barrios – former WWE Co-Presidents and Board members, and currently the Co-Founders and Co-CEOs of Isos Capital Management – and the requisite removal from the Board of three directors. Mr. McMahon expects to assume the role of Executive Chairman of the Board.

John Laurinaitis is still free I hope

[Ben]

I do plan on watching all of Wrestle Kingdom at the weekend but I feel like the longer I put it off, the more likely the internet is to spoil Ospreay vs. Omega for me because they're going absolutely wild for it. I've got a spare hour so here we go.

First thoughts are that the hype is so big that it might fail to live up to it. I'm also wondering what condition Omega is in because he's looked frankly awful in AEW recently.

Anyway, big entrances to start and Kenny looks like he's up for this, complete with fake tan and hair extensions, The Cleaner is back baby. Ospreay goes back to his Elevated theme song which is great and his Aerial Assassin gimmick which was back when he wasn't the main event heavyweight, so that might be hinting at an Omega win.

Very intense straight off the bat and only a minute in I can see Kenny is far more motivated than he's ever been in AEW. He assumes the heel role going after Ospreay's back which is a good sign because heel Kenny is where he's best. Everything is just so crisp and snappy so far, it's obvious they've decided to steal the show. I can tell we are going really long though because the selling for the early exchanges is really stated (almost exaggerated), which is what you need to in a big stadium, so I like it. Out on the apron and Will looks for an Oscutter which is absurd, and Red Shoes agrees with me. Oh fuck, here's the Japanese tables, someone is getting hurt bad. Ospreay took the stomp on his bad back but then he hops up and hits Kenny with a nasty suplex on the table and the corkscrew. His selling of the back was good up until now but he's forgotten about it until Kenny gives him the Kitaro Crusher to remind him of it. Really nice "kick out" though with a lethargic roll up of the shoulder. This is great stuff from Omega, excellent focus on the back of Ospreay. That Oscutter was lovely, nice hope spot from Will. Ouch looks like he busted Kenny's eye for real with that Cheeky Nando's Kick. Good grief a DDT from the top turnbuckle (!) gets Kenny back on top. Five people crowding round Will so he can blade was pretty lol though. Kenny is just bringing it here. NJPW Kenny is just on another level, Tony Khan must be fuming, $2m a year to treat AEW like house shows. Now Ospreay's head gets bashed through the table. This is just a really long squash so far, and it's great. Another lovely exhausted kick out. I'm enjoying seeing two guys actually pay attention to the little things. They're actually telling a great story over random insane spots which I wasn't sure they'd do. Kenny is just destroying Ospreay, it's absolutely brutal. Not the match structure I was expecting at all. Ospreay fires up for the comeback, finally getting some pins on Omega as the announcer calls 30 minutes. Styles Clash from Ospreay as the commentators reference 2016 so Kenny will probably try Ibushi's Kamigoye. Great Hidden Blade, it looks awesome when the recipient knows what they're doing. Forearm exchanges, we're in the final stretch now. Aaaand there's the Kamigoye. Oh shit and the One Winged Angel for the win. Very unexpected. Mainly because Ospreay is the full time NJPW guy (he's winning the G1 now for sure) but that whole match with Kenny dominating was lining up an underdog babyface win. At least there's a guaranteed rematch now, I just hope it's in NJPW and not AEW. They just can't hit the same levels in AEW.

A tremendous match for sure. Not quite best ever like Twitter will say but you'll be hard pressed to see anything better this year. I recommend everyone watches it. Even if you don't watch Japanese wrestling, you'll find this match very relatable.

[Ian]

Bold claim while Von Wagner is still running wild down in NXT, mate.

[Baz]

Omega vs Okada 1 at WK1 was miles better, but it was still a brilliant match. Probably would have been even better had I not read a damn spoiler.

Rematch at AEW in Craven Cottage please.

[wullie]

Meltzer is clearly holding back that seventh star for the Mountain Dew© Lights Out Match™

[phonics]

Vince is back.

[Gray Fox]

From what I see he was still actually in charge of most of the running of WWE. He's brought his old board members with him, because he threatened that if they didnt put him back in, he'd basically refuse TV/Media deals until they went out of business as he still had the final say on those matters.

[Gray Fox]

Also looks like it's MJF v Danielson coming up soon. I'm sure Baz is thrilled.

[Ian]

Vince McMahon to presumably try and wrest control of creative back so he can bury Gunther as he planned to before. Old cunt.

Hopefully he's hit with another sex scandal sharpish.

[Ben]

Regal fired.

[Ben]

Stock up massive lol.

[wullie]

Good news for Austin Theory though, can't be too many people who've been tag champion with an 80 year old partner.

[Baz]

Also looks like it's MJF v Danielson coming up soon. I'm sure Baz is thrilled.Dreadful. Not only do we have 5 irrelevant matches on Dynamite to look forward to (spoiler: Danielson wins all 5), I’m not sure even MJF can make an hour long match with a washed-up has-been worth watching.

[Ben]

I’ve just seen Sheamus and McIntyre are now called The Banger Bros. Vince is back baby.

[Ian]

The tag title match on Smackdown was silly but rather fun, and while the running popcorn gag with Zayn / Heyman / Reigns watching it is pretty dumb I'd be lying if I said I didn't laugh at it.

I love Zayn.


Dreadful. Not only do we have 5 irrelevant matches on Dynamite to look forward to (spoiler: Danielson wins all 5), I’m not sure even MJF can make an hour long match with a washed-up has-been worth watching.

https://media.tenor.com/mHSEkbUrvksAAAAC/bait.gif

[wullie]

I wonder if they'll give Zayn a little title run after all this like they did with Kofi Kingston, obviously to be quickly ended by Owens turning on him for the 76th time.

[Ian]

I assume they'll stick with KO / Zayn taking belts off the Usos after Reigns beats KO at Mania then Zayn at whatever the next PPV after that is once they boot him out of the Table Club, but really the payoff to this should be Zayn being the one to beat Reigns.

[7om]

What the consensus about Vince, then? Is he back in a ceremonial role or is he actually back running the show, pal?

[wullie]

I'd have thought he's either doing everything or he's not there at all, no in between

[Ian]

You would have to hope given it's fairly unanimous among anybody whose name doesn't resemble Bins McFlange that the show is consistently competent and not infrequently much better than it had been before if they let him in it's purely to help them get the sale over the line then he can take his cut and fuck off but that's probably wishful thinking on my part.

[Gray Fox]

What the consensus about Vince, then? Is he back in a ceremonial role or is he actually back running the show, pal?

For now he's as he was before he stepped away. A lot of talk says he just wants control of selling the company though.

[7om]

So why is he selling up? I find that quite surprising that he’d be okay with his family losing control of the company.

[Shindig]

Presumably he can't have his old role so he'd rather sell up. He's a very petty man, remember.

[Ian]

So why is he selling up? I find that quite surprising that he’d be okay with his family losing control of the company.

What part of the last few decades made you think Vince gives a shit about any of his relatives? :D

[7om]

What part of the last few decades made you think Vince gives a shit about any of his relatives? :D

True. After all, Vince was the Higher Power when Stephanie got crucified by the Ministry of Darkness.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

What part of the last few decades made you think Vince gives a shit about any of his relatives? :D

Surely he cares a little too much for Steph.

[Gray Fox]

He's pushed her for an incest story line a few times. When she obviously said fuck off no, he went well then what if Shane was the dad instead.

[Ben]

Vince (and the other one) was obsessed with incest angles.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Incest sells.

[Ian]

And this is why Steph is dead to him. Wouldn't even fuck her own dad.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Selfish bitch.

[Baz]

The Darby/Sting promo was great. The Jay Lethal one really wasn’t. :sick: I don’t think anybody in the world would miss him and JJ. Can’t believe they’ve got them feuding with the Acclaimed while FTR aren’t doing anything.

I never thought I’d say this but Jeff Jarrett has been great lately.

[Gray Fox]

Looks like Steph has refused another incest angle.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1612960382586331138

And Vince is back at the head of the table.

[Disco]

Sold to the Saudis, lol.

[Ben]

Those two idiots who got LA Knight got lumped with last year will be getting beheaded at the next PPV.

At least MJF's "I'm off to WWE in 2024" cheap heat bits will cease. No way does a Jew get involved with these nutters.

[wullie]

There was always the jokey rumours about Vince McMahon buying Newcastle, this doesn't come that far off

[Baz]

At least MJF's "I'm off to WWE in 2024" cheap heat bits will cease. No way does a Jew get involved with these nutters.
Gives him some material though.

Also looking forward to Max Caster’s thoughts. :)

[wullie]

In a world of minor coincidences, Cov were officially taken over yesterday by a new owner which fuels speculation that it'll eventually facilitate a sale to the evil Sports Direct empire, and the chairman resigned.

[Gray Fox]

Now let me tell YOU something, BROTHER.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmKen4zXoAE6eG0?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Lofty]

Bah god that's allah's music

[wullie]

It's unfortunate timing for the one Saudi wrestler on the roster to have a homoerotic gimmick.

[Ben]

AEW just got a whole lot appealing again. Triple H was the worst thing to happen to them.

It'll be interesting how AEW deal with this because I imagine a lot of Triple H talent will become available again in the next 12 months, and talent they might have expected to leave for WWE like FTR and Miro might not now.

[Baz]

Come back Cody

And bring Brandi.

[wullie]

Andrade must be busy deleting a lot of tweets at the moment.

[Ben]

Come back Cody

And bring Brandi.

Cody has missed the entire Triple H era. He was very much a Vince signing.

[Ian]

Looks like Steph has refused another incest angle.

I missed that she'd actually resigned.

All those "backstage atmosphere is the best it's been in years" stories gone for a Burton.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Losing interest in getting a ticket to MITB.

[Ben]

It'll be in Jeddah now anyway.

[Gray Fox]

Blood Money in the Bank, live from Jeddah. Streaming exclusively on Peacock!

[Baz]

Losing interest in getting a ticket to MITB.

What're the prices likely to be?

I'd pay almost anything for front row facing the TV camera of Dynamite in England.

[Ben]

You'd have loved the old PROGRESS shows. The whole crowd just wanted to get themselves over.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

What're the prices likely to be?

I'd pay almost anything for front row facing the TV camera of Dynamite in England.

The basic "VIP" nosebleeds are like £350 and you're not getting too much more outside of your seat:

https://i.imgur.com/XFR6JXA.png

Unless the hat is made out of gold or something.

Clash at the Castle was £46 for a cheap seat and £700 for the most expensive (no idea what the VIP prices were) but that was in Cardiff at a 74k stadium. This is London prices so £100 for a cheap seat and £1000 for the most expensive?

[wullie]

Ariel Helwani's saying the Saudi thing isn't confirmed and the original tweet that claimed it was is now gone. The most wrestling way for this all to go is for Shahid Khan to buy it and batter his son.

[Ben]

Well the stock hasn't been frozen so it's obviously not finalised but it looks like there's something there in principle. There's a user on Reddit who is clearly a WWE employee because he pops up now and again with inside info and it is always correct. He posted about 12 hours ago saying the Saudi sale is agreed. On his past record I'd be inclined to believe it's going to happen.

[Ian]

I look forward to Sami Zayn being quietly written out of the Bloodline story because I can't imagine he'll want to work for that lot.

[Ben]

Actually the Reddit guy just said sale agreed, he didn't mention Saudis. They might all be working for NBC yet.

[wullie]

I just hope whoever buys it also gets a controlling share in Tout, still the best social media network.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I look forward to Sami Zayn being quietly written out of the Bloodline story because I can't imagine he'll want to work for that lot.

And Roman having to put The Wise Man through a table or something :(

[Ian]

Vince being sued by a WWE shareholder already. :drool:

[Baz]

Great end to the best of 7 Trios matches.

Taz on commentary is so good. I love him.

Also burst out laughing at the Ricky Starks and Jake Hager ‘slap your face off your face’ exchange.

[Ian]

Internet reckons Cocaine Tony fancies a bid for WWE. No idea if there's a shred of truth to it but that'd be a laugh.

[Ben]

No chance, his dad ain't that rich. Wall Street reckon ~$8bn is the price. They'd need partners so they'd have to make an offer way above the asking price otherwise JP Morgan will just recommend a sale to a single entity who obviously has the funds (Saudis, NBC, FOX, Disney...).

He'd probably end up having Wheeler Yuta beat Roman Reigns if it did happen.

[Baz]

Invasion mk. II :drool:

[wullie]

AEWWE Wrestlemania or Nothing: A Khan In Every Corner!

[Ian]

No chance, his dad ain't that rich. Wall Street reckon ~$8bn is the price. They'd need partners so they'd have to make an offer way above the asking price otherwise JP Morgan will just recommend a sale to a single entity who obviously has the funds (Saudis, NBC, FOX, Disney...).

Khan buys them out with help from a mysterious backer.

And then....
https://media.tenor.com/2kaMSVGLkJgAAAAC/mchmahon-higherpower.gif

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

And they win the tag titles together.

[Ben]

Khan buys them out with help from a mysterious backer.

And then....
https://media.tenor.com/2kaMSVGLkJgAAAAC/mchmahon-higherpower.gif

I’m on board with that.

Aww, son of a bitch! :drool:

[Shindig]

Invasion mk. II :drool:

This is more likely:

https://i.imgflip.com/56whex.png

[Baz]

Since April 27, 2022 Jade Cargill is 14-0 in AEW singles matches. In that same time frame Julia Hart is 17-0 in AEW singles matches.

Julia Hart has never won a match of any type on Dynamite or Rampage. :henn0rz: (Neither has Skye Blue.)

[Ben]

They need to sack off the match records now. It doesn’t mean anything anymore in terms of getting title opportunities. Then they can completely revamp the Dark shit because that serves only to pad stats. I watched a couple of them in recent months and it’s the complete pits.

[Baz]

I've never watched Dark. Hoping my first one is LIVE!

[Shindig]

It never meant anything beyond, "Proper combat sports do this. We're a proper sport, honest."

[Ben]

Strowman in great singles match alert.

It was against Gunther obviously but Jesus, I thought I’d never see the day.

[Mike]

It never meant anything beyond, "Proper combat sports do this. We're a proper sport, honest."

Indeed, and the sports they’re trying to be like, you might have, at most, a few fights a year once you’re a bigger name.

[Ian]

Strowman in great singles match alert.

It was against Gunther obviously but Jesus, I thought I’d never see the day.

Just watched it and yeah, that was a lot of fun. Trying to think if he's had a genuinely good straight up singles match before. He had a really fun series of OTT gimmick matches against Reigns about 300 years ago now, and he's had some opponents where you've thought "Yeah these two could do well with more time" (or in the case of Bork "if Lesnar had been at all interested" / that wasn't the year they were sacrificing everything to make the F5 look good so Reigns could kick out of dozens of them) but that must be his best vanilla singles match. And I thought he really showed willing to make Gunther look good too.

EDIT: Also helps that the crowd were super into it. Boatman got a good pop when he came out and they kept it up through the match as well.

[Ian]

Zayn's reaction to the ending of his match with KO really made the whole thing, and it's testament to him and the Bloodline stuff in general that I had any interest in seeing a match between those two at all given how hard WWE have driven that into the ground over the years.

[Disco]

The greatest wrestler of our time is now Impact GM :drool:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeoDjnI2P3k

[Ben]

Impact has been genuinely decent for a few years now so of course they had to ruin it by bringing in Bully Ray a few months ago and now Marella. I don’t see how this works.

[Ian]

I need to watch more Josh Alexander matches but I've liked what I've seen.

Anybody seen his hour long one against Speedball? An hour long match puts me off at face value but I've heard nothing but good things.

[Ben]

You just know that I have. :D

I’m generally not a fan of hour long matches in the last few decades especially involving guys who’ve spent a long time on the indie circuit because many of them descend into poor attempts at epics just for the sake of bragging about being in an epic. But anyway, I took the plunge on it and it’s great. Great psychology throughout. I don’t think anything in the buildup necessitated it last a full hour but it kept me engaged so I guess that’s a big win for it.

But I appreciate I’m pretty unique in this thread for “tastes” so your mileage may vary.

[Ian]

You just know that I have. :D

I knew you would have, I just don't like to pigeonhole people so didn't want to just outright quote / @ you. :D


I’m generally not a fan of hour long matches in the last few decades especially involving guys who’ve spent a long time on the indie circuit because many of them descend into poor attempts at epics just for the sake of bragging about being in an epic. But anyway, I took the plunge on it and it’s great. Great psychology throughout. I don’t think anything in the buildup necessitated it last a full hour but it kept me engaged so I guess that’s a big win for it.

I've seen some of Bailey's PWG work and basically this was my concern, so given you've taken that into account I might need to give it a bash. Going In Raw have been banging on about Bailey for ages now.

[Ben]

Speaking of Impact, I watched a couple of matches from their PPV from Friday night this morning. I'm a fan of Josh Alexander but not enough to make me watch 20 minutes of Bully Ray, so I skipped to the last two matches.

First was Jonathan Gresham vs. Eddie Edwards. Edwards assumed heel duties being the bigger man against home town man Gresham. They told a good simple story throughout, with Edwards dominating the majority and Gresham occasionally fighting back, going after the left arm which Edwards sold well right until the end. Every time Gresham started to mount a comeback he was chopped down so it had me believing he was finally going to break through and win it. Turns out not to be the case as Edwards was just too powerful in the end. Very well paced match with all the big moves coming in the final stretch. Nothing groundbreaking but just all round good believable pro wrestling from two smooth workers.

Main event was Mickie James vs. Jordynne Grace. Title vs. career. 99% of these matches end in a title change but Impact built this really well and the video package and entrance really had you believing this was Mickie's final match. Grace is an absolute unit and she controlled most of the match with her power and Mickie had to use all her guile and experience just to stay in it. Grace could be great but she's still a bit raw. Mickie kicked out of a superplex-into-a-jackhammer spot which normally I'd find a bit egregious but if you're going to do it, you do it here in a PPV main event with a career stip, and not on some random episode of Rampage. Mickie actually has great psychology and the crowd was behind her big time. I was believing Grace could actually win right until the end. Finish was a bit flat with a tornado DDT to win it out of nowhere; it fit the story of the match with it being a move out of nowhere but it wasn't built as well as it could have been. Still a really good match, would recommend.

[wullie]

https://www.wwe.com/f/styles/gallery_img_l/public/all/2023/01/016_SD_01132023DG_24805--10645609e0639ead4833e22d34fbe56d.jpg


Big fan of Karrion Kross now being a 1920s gumshoe

[Shindig]

Is Rey Mysterio a replicant?

[Disco]

Am I the only one who finds Kross dull as dishwater?

[Ben]

Nah me too. He’s fucked if Scarlett divorces him.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He looks the part but he's boring as shit to watch wrestle.

[Gray Fox]

Entrance is alright. Beyond that he has nothing. Just generic wrestler #3217856.

His Mrs also looks kind of odd to me. Some is just off about her.

[Ian]

The only interest I have in Kross is "can Rey Mysterio drag a good match out of him?" He's barely had a match that you'd even go so far as saying it's fine, and they literally did an NXT story where everybody was saying he's too shit to be NXT champion.

[Ben]

His Mrs also looks kind of odd to me. Some is just off about her.

Mate.

[Baz]

Women’s street fight wasn’t as good as the last one but damn Ruby was bleeding.

[Ben]

Absolutely ridiculous for a Rampage. Where do they go from here for PPVs or even Dynamite? Anna Jay will be lucky to avoid a concussion.

[Gray Fox]

I see WWE have done their usual stupid of announcing Cody for the Rumble, instead of having a mega pop when he came out as one of the final few entrants.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I see WWE have done their usual stupid of announcing Cody for the Rumble, instead of having a mega pop when he came out as one of the final few entrants.

ffs, I thought it was dumb that they were hyping his return with workout videos/talk about who he's working with for his comeback etc.

They should have played it all down.

[Gray Fox]

Nope, video package played on RAW from him announcing he was entering.

If it isn't him then I'm genuinely unsure who wins it. Because it doesnt matter. Everyone else is pointless to put up against Roman.

[Ben]

Now, if I was the booker, I’d have Cody be #2 to maximise the pop and keep everyone focused on the match for the full duration. And have him win obviously.

So naturally they’ll have him #29 which keeps the crowd distracted on the titantron for the full match.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Sami Zayn would be a quality choice but I don't see them using the Rumble when they could have him turn on the Bloodline without it.

[Ben]

Yeah Zayn doesn’t need it. He’s got a route to his WM match already. Cody needs to come back and win the title otherwise they’ll squander his peak popularity.

For what it’s worth, I think they did the right thing announcing him. Hardcore fans knew he was going to be there anywhere and casual fans might now be more likely to purchase the PPV (/subscribe to Peacock) if they know he will be there. Money speaks louder than pops.

[Ian]

If they don't do something idiotic like have the Rock come in at 30 and win it (he also doesn't need a Rumble win if they're doing the Roman match) then I don't see who it'd be other than Rhodes.

Unless Vince takes creative control back and just has Bork win it because it's the stupidest thing he can think up.

[Baz]

Is Cody really that over?

There’s rumours of him being the cover star for WWE2K23 but I can’t see how that can happen cos then he’d be the star of the Showcase mode where you play through legendary matches from his career, which just won’t work. (For reference it’s Reg Mysterio on this one, and you get some WCW matches)

[Ian]

He's pretty over.

[Ben]

He’s about as over as you get in WWE these days. They’ve done a pretty good job of making sure nobody gets over more than the brand.

[Gray Fox]

Actually has some personality, has the family history, has people willing him on after he was fucked over in his last WWE run and can also put on a very good match. Seems a likeable guy too.

Noticeable that the AEW locker room went to shit not long after he left.

[Ben]

Spot on.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That HIAC match with Seth and his torn pectoral was MASSIVE for him.

[Disco]

Most importantly he hasn't been on WWE tv for months.

[Gray Fox]

Vince will have loved him putting The Product before his health on that one. Some brownie points.

On the injury itself, he'd already partially torn it and then decided to do weight training on it. Seems a bit avoidable if you ask me.

[Gray Fox]

Most importantly he hasn't been on WWE tv for months.

He's had video packages played for ages while he's been out and their youtube channel must do something involving him near every other day. They definitely wanted people still thinking of him.

[Ben]

I think that’s because really they knew he shouldn’t have been as over as he was. He was never more than a midcarder and a return from AEW isn’t MASSIVE so they could have expected a pop and then for it to fade away. The anticipation got him over a lot more than expected and then he hit it out of the park and managed to sustain it, which is a tremendous effort on Raw.

[Ben]

Top Flight (Dante Martin & Darius Martin) defeat The Blackpool Combat Club (Claudio Castagnoli & Wheeler Yuta) and The Butcher And The Blade (The Blade & The Butcher) (w/The Bunny) (4:58)

Just noticed this nugget from yesterday's "Dark: Elevation" whatever the fuck that is.

Tony was bleating about how he couldn't get a TV deal for ROH then he's doing shit like jobbing its World Champion in sub 5 minutes on a fucking YouTube show. :cab:

[Baz]

Jay Briscoe’s died in a car crash, aged 38.