General Election 2024: Gone on the 4th of July

[niko_cee]

You could follow Quince around and post that after 99% of his posts, although with better punctuation.

[Giggles]

Near as much as you can see Igor asking what's going on.

Clearly Far Right is a term that's bandied about too much these days in an effort to shout people down. It's a defined term, not a generic one for anyone who disagrees with any semblance of left leaning government policy.

[niko_cee]

It is indeed a relatively meaningless term. To the extent that we have one here, it is a tiny minority, and it isn't pandered to by any government. Addressing immigration isn't a right/left thing, but like the whole Brexit thing beforehand it is presented as polarised in that way.Additionally, also similarly to Brexit, the idea that something that has been gestated over decades can suddenly be neatly and succinctly unwound without any societal upheaval is pure fantasy.

[Ben]

Holden had a shocker on BBC a few weeks ago, now this:

1799867754629189837

At some point you've got to think they're being this bad on purpose for a new Netflix series.

[niko_cee]

It was like that Family Guy [was it?] skit where the answer to every question was nine eleven, but with Emily Thornberry switched in.

[Dquincy]

You could follow Quince around and post that after 99% of his posts, although with better punctuation.

Too complex for you?

[Dquincy]

What the fucking hell are you talking about

Just highlighting the unfair bad rap that the far right receive because of a few bad eggs. Makes you think doesn't it.

[7om]

Not really

[phonics]

tbf to quincy I'm sure he's several years removed from his last thought so it's hard for him to denote them.

[Ben]

One for the "Far Right" discussion:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjmmrwexv4ko

[Spikey M]

He's right. He's very fucking stupid to say it, but he's right. The 2 world wars put the country into a huge amount of debt and saw out major towns and cities reduced to rubble. Not to mention the loss of life. Paying off that debt and rebuilding cost Britain it's empire.

Now, obviously it was the right thing to do and we were on the right side of history, there's no doubt about that. But we are also probably much poorer than we would have been.

[Kikó]

What

[Spikey M]

What

We finished paying for ww2 in 2006 ffs.

Please feel free to explain why we would be financially worse off NOT being involved in WW2 though. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

[Magic]

What

:D

This was my exact reaction too. Must be something in the water south of the border...

[niko_cee]

The Nigels are taking over Essex.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's not all about money.

[Spikey M]

Ok. So the country wasn't reduced to rubble, the empire didn't crumble and we weren't paying off war related debt until 2006? Have I imagined this?

Obviously we have to factor in what a Mega-German europe would have done to the economy, but I've nonidea on that score.

[Spikey M]

It's not all about money.

I said as much myself.

[Spikey M]

In July 2022, Mr Gribbin posted on the Unherd website: "Britain would be in a far better state today had we taken Hitler up on his offer of neutrality…. but oh no Britain’s warped mindset values weird notions of international morality rather than looking after its own people."

The same month he wrote: "In Britain specifically we need to exorcise the cult of Churchill and recognize that in both policy and military strategy, he was abysmal."

I mean, he's talking shit here. For starters, he quite happily stabbed Russia in the back, so I've no idea why we'd trust Hitler on neutrality. And - as I said - we (Eventually, after fucking over the Czechs) did the right and moral thing. But the country is poorer as a result of doing so. That's just a fact. I'm not sure where the controversy is.

[Yevrah]

The controversy comes from people being incapable of separating one point from another when it comes to an overall issue.

It's sad.

[Magic]

Ok. So the country wasn't reduced to rubble, the empire didn't crumble and we weren't paying off war related debt until 2006? Have I imagined this?

Obviously we have to factor in what a Mega-German europe would have done to the economy, but I've nonidea on that score.

The country wasn't reduced to rubble and the empire notion was out the window after WW1.

[Spikey M]

The country wasn't reduced to rubble and the empire notion was out the window after WW1.

Do they not have the Blitz on the Scottish silibus?

[Magic]

Do they not have the Blitz on the Scottish silibus?

If you want to see a country reduced to rubble see Germany.

[Spikey M]

It's almost like involvement in a world war is a bad thing for a nation?

[thommo]

I mean, he's talking shit here. For starters, he quite happily stabbed Russia in the back, so I've no idea why we'd trust Hitler on neutrality. And - as I said - we (Eventually, after fucking over the Czechs) did the right and moral thing. But the country is poorer as a result of doing so. That's just a fact. I'm not sure where the controversy is.

It's just a really wild thing to post and say "Yeah he's right" with barely any context. Especially as you say that, and the rest of the article goes on to detail other fucking wild outlandish viewpoints that he's made on this nutjob magazine platform. Pretty controversial to just brazenly agree with a lunatic like that.

[Magic]

It's almost like involvement in a world war is a bad thing for a nation?

Have you taken leave of your senses? You do understand that Hitler was a genocidal drug-induced maniac and had to be stopped at all costs? There is no neutral in his eyes. This wasn't a territorial dispute or tit-for-tat. This was promotion of the Aryan race or death. Any argument of a stable or even short-term non-war period is a total fabrication and would never have happened. Hitler, Hitler, Hitler. Not Germany. Hitler.

[Spikey M]

Have you taken leave of your senses? You do understand that Hitler was a genocidal drug-induced maniac and had to be stopped at all costs? There is no neutral in his eyes. This wasn't a territorial dispute or tit-for-tat. This was promotion of the Aryan race or death. Any argument of a stable or even short-term non-war period is a total fabrication and would never have happened. Hitler, Hitler, Hitler. Not Germany. Hitler.

I think you should have a little lay down until you're capable of reading what's actually being said.

[Magic]

I think you should have a little lay down until you're capable of reading what's actually being said.

What's being said? That we should have entrusted a genocidal psychopath with the future of our nation and Europe? Once again forget the idea of 'Germany' this is all about Hitler.

[Spikey M]

What's being said? That we should have entrusted a genocidal psychopath with the future of our nation and Europe? Once again forget the idea of 'Germany' this is all about Hitler.

That's not what's been said though, is it? Lay down a little longer.

[Magic]

That's not what's been said though, is it? Lay down a little longer.

Ok please enlighten me, how are you interpreting it?

[niko_cee]

What we should have done is discovered that the country of Wales [country?] was in fact made entirely of gold. We'd be so much better off.

That's about the level of 'argument' being employed.

[Spikey M]

Ok please enlighten me, how are you interpreting it?

It's very simple. If you look at the situation through simple, selfish, self-interest it's better to not get involved in wars. It saves your country a lot of death, suffering and money. HOWEVER, getting involved was the moral thing to do and I'm glad we did, even if it did come at great cost.

[Dquincy]

Have you taken leave of your senses? You do understand that Hitler was a genocidal drug-induced maniac and had to be stopped at all costs? There is no neutral in his eyes. This wasn't a territorial dispute or tit-for-tat. This was promotion of the Aryan race or death. Any argument of a stable or even short-term non-war period is a total fabrication and would never have happened. Hitler, Hitler, Hitler. Not Germany. Hitler.

The initial issue was the Treaty of Versailles. That created the problem in the first place.

[Magic]

It's very simple. If you look at the situation through simple, selfish, self-interest it's better to not get involved in wars. It saves your country a lot of death, suffering and money. HOWEVER, getting involved was the moral thing to do and I'm glad we did, even if it did come at great cost.

I agree, however if there's an absolute fucking psychopath knocking at your door then you really have no choice. Once again this wasn't like a 'normal' war. There was no plan beyond extermination of the non-Aryans. It was a one way road to total annihilation.

[Magic]

The initial issue was the Treaty of Versailles. That created the problem in the first place.

Hitler. Stop looking at it as a country and democratic idea. Hitler.

[Dquincy]

Hitler. Stop looking at it as a country and democratic idea. Hitler.

Sorry, I disagree. Admittedly it wasn't the country, but it wasn't solely Adolf either. I think you give him too much (evil) credit. Goring and Himmler were just as fucking mental as Adolf was, and they had significant influence.

[Dquincy]

If you want to see a country reduced to rubble see Germany.

Tbf, the German's set out the blueprint for this first with the blitz and Coventry. Dresden and Cologne were fair game after that.

[Lofty]

It was less the fighting Hitler and more the Yanks deciding to gouge the fuck out of us until we ran out of assets before joining the war. No lend lease for Ukraine, I see.

[-james-]

1799880382235758894

:happycry:

[Clunge]

Looks pretty decent to me.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They don't have legs as pleasing as those at 0:04.

What band/group of people is featured just after said legs? I thought it was Teenage Fanclub but maybe not.

[randomlegend]

This page is a low point even for this place.

[Giggles]

This Hitler chap sounds very modern day Israel.

[Lewis]

The idea that we might have been better off sitting the Second World war out was a pretty uncontroversial one for decades (same with his points about Winston Churchill), and plenty of people still make the same argument about the First World War, so getting all pissy about that is probably another casualty of foreign policy realism going out the window.

[Yevrah]

People can't even get their heads around the arguments for sitting out of the Ukranian conflict, let alone actually doing it - so arguments for avoiding the defining moment of the 20th century? No chance.

[7om]

Sign of the times that Spikey makes a very valid and balanced point and he gets jumped.

[Yevrah]

Sign of the times that Spikey makes a very valid and balanced point and he gets jumped.

Indeed. It's depressing. Even more so that he clearly caveated everything and it still happened.

[niko_cee]

It's an absurd counterfactual.

Not least given that since 'the war' we've seen an unbridled increase in living standards and remain one of the richest countries in the world.

Sign of the times indeed.

[Magic]

Yeah fair enough, let someone else do all the killing and invading for a change. Good old England.

[Manc]

Think of the World Cups we could have won.

[Shindig]

They don't have legs as pleasing as those at 0:04.

What band/group of people is featured just after said legs? I thought it was Teenage Fanclub but maybe not.

The Housemartins. I forgot Fatboy Slim was in them.

[Ben]

I did not expect such a dumpster fire when I pasted the link. :D

Still, nice to see some action on TTH.

[Spikey M]

Hopefully you can find something about slavery tomorrow and Jimmy can finally roll out his theory that sport team demographics are set up in the same way plantation work was.

[niko_cee]

My local reform candidate has apparently been chucked out, although he's still listed as someone you can vote for.

1799156902175318036

[Spikey M]

That'll do. Go on Jim.

[Magic]

My local reform candidate has apparently been chucked out, although he's still listed as someone you can vote for.

1799156902175318036

Ew he likes cats. I thought people like that were exclusively dog lovers.

[Spikey M]

I'm still mystified by them sacking people like him. Who do they think their voters are? This is exactly what they would vote for.

[Shindig]

There aren't enough of those people to get them elected.

[Luke Emia]

It has to have the veneer of respectability. Like the other day when Farage said Sunak doesn’t understand our value’s fairly obviously based on the fact that he’s of Asian heritage but he then spins it out by saying it’s because he’s rich.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I was walking in town the other day and a Reform campaigner went up to a woman and asked her "Would you ever consider voting for Reform?" which I thought was a great question.

She just said no and carried on walking.

[Dquincy]

I did not expect such a dumpster fire when I pasted the link. :D

Still, nice to see some action on TTH.

It's because I have returned. You're welcome everybody.

[niko_cee]

Just found out, rather upsettingly, that Fishy Rishi was in what will one day be my local pub today. Missed chance.

[Ben]

Latest Redfield and Wilton poll has CON at 19%! Reform 17%.

Obligatory FT model:
LAB 514
LD 67
CON 33

50-99 seats for CON now the overwhelming favourite with Ladbrokes.

Isle of Wight set to become Labour for the first time ever.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Hitchin looks set to be Labour for the first time since 1964.

I've seen plenty of posters (and a billboard is being installed today) for Labour as well as Lib Dem around here but nothing for the Tories.

[Ben]

Obviously Rishi has no control of his party anymore, but should he not be sacking Braverman for her very public endorsement of another party?

[Magic]

I sent that political quiz to my younger siblings and they let their friends/partners do it. Man I will say Gen Z is fucked. Most of them came out as UKIP or Conservative.

[Spikey M]

The Tory candidate for one of the Southend Seats went to a good old fashioned Summer Fete at the weekend. Sadly he lost at the coconut shy.

https://i.ibb.co/D4Nt6Ym/Screenshot-20240611-110259-Brave.jpg

A reform candidate by tea time. :happycry:

[Lofty]

https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1800481450476908805

More Farage drama.

[niko_cee]

Violent left wing mob?

:D

I guess he was wearing a red jacket.

[Pepe]

:lol:

[niko_cee]

Michael Bevan getting beaned by a can of John Smith's remains the gold standard for that sort of thing.

Although apparently I have misremembered and it was a can of VB. At Lords? Struggling to make sense of that.

[niko_cee]

Rishi Sunak's line to the effect that one should look to the future, and not the past [failures of his predecessors] when determining how one should vote seems a bit at odds with the opening line of their manifesto being, "In 2010 we inherited an economy in tatters, with Labour admitting themselves there was 'no money'." Can't have it both ways matey.

Also, flagship promise to end the inequality in child benefit, a system introduced by . . . ?

[Ben]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmjj1n030djo

The picture of Farage on here. :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

Rishi Sunak's line to the effect that one should look to the future, and not the past [failures of his predecessors] when determining how one should vote seems a bit at odds with the opening line of their manifesto being, "In 2010 we inherited an economy in tatters, with Labour admitting themselves there was 'no money'." Can't have it both ways matey.

Also, flagship promise to end the inequality in child benefit, a system introduced by . . . ?

Everything in there is just nakedly desperate appeals to certain demographics that they think might save them a few seats.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh, and the old chestnut of funding things by raising £6 billion a year 'cracking down on tax avoidance and evasion', fair play it's normally the left who go for that.

[Kikó]

The money will come from cancelling diversity training which costs 100bn per year.

[Shindig]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmjj1n030djo

The picture of Farage on here. :D

Imagine having a paper cup chucked at you and calling that assault. :D My favourite Farage picture is still him standing on his own after his plane crashed.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03230/farage-ukip-plane-_3230063b.jpg

[phonics]

I work in the printing industry now, local Labour candidate who's core message is supporting local independent business said we're too expensive and went online.

[Boydy]

1800565786014277857

Please please please

[Lewis]

The Conservative Party destroyed and the electoral system disenfranchising twenty-ish per cent of the electorate who voted Reform would be a good medium-term result.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Farage plane crash being a bit worse is an interesting counterfactual.

[Gray Fox]

This "I didn't have Sky TV" thing might help out with the Lib Dems as the opposition dream.

[Boydy]

1800664438531354980

The D-Day stuff isn't going away either.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Old people do like to yap on.

[Luke Emia]

The Conservative Party destroyed and the electoral system disenfranchising twenty-ish per cent of the electorate who voted Reform would be a good medium-term result.

Why?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I keep getting Rishi/D-Day memes forwarded onto our family whatsapp group from our parents' boomer-humour circles, if ever there was a dire sign for Tory prospects that is it.

[niko_cee]

All jokes aside, other than as a mark of respect for a campaign ostensibly entirely based on having days out, the idea of a Lib Dem opposition is a bit concerning.

Unless they have Paul Kohler as their spokesman for everything.

[Spikey M]

https://i.ibb.co/ThktJMC/Screenshot-20240605-212008-Brave.jpg

:gs:

Having looked at the Lib Dem policies, I'm calling bullshit on this. It's a no from me.

[Yevrah]

If Labour get 500+ seats it'll make little difference who the official opposition ends up being, as in reality there won't be one with that few seats between the other parties.

[Spikey M]

Until Labour splits into Pro-Palestine and Pro-Israel Labour and becomes it's own opposition.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The contempt I feel for some of the minor parties on there is overpowering. Everything below Rishi should be put in a mincer, and I'm presuming 'Volt UK' are some form of embarrassment as well.

[Spikey M]

The contempt I feel for some of the minor parties on there is overpowering. Everything below Rishi should be put in a mincer, and I'm presuming 'Volt UK' are some form of embarrassment as well.

Pro EU nonsense, but I apparently agree with them on not teaching Critical Race Theory and not banning plastic spoons, so yeah.

[Pepe]

The contempt I feel for some of the minor parties on there is overpowering. Everything below Rishi should be put in a mincer, and I'm presuming 'Volt UK' are some form of embarrassment as well.

Good to know that you are against women's equality and animal welfare.

[niko_cee]

But also Laurence Fox, so it balances out.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Good to know that you are against women's equality and animal welfare.

General election is about who runs the country (all of it), single issue cunts can get fucked.

What about ME? What about MY pet causes? It's ME that matters most, fuck the other 66 million people.

[niko_cee]

A couple of other observations I've had about the campaign.

What's the deal with getting rid of self-employed NICs? Wasn't the government's policy until quite recently to equalise them with employed contributions until the media, a sector that massively benefits from arguably abusing the 'freelance' system got all frothy about it? And on the subject of the media getting all frothy, the same thing seems to be happening with the whole private school VAT thing, which I can only assume is because media opinion formers tend to largely send their kids to private school. I've never really understood the charitable status tax breaks given to private schools. But then I don't really understand the whole VAT system from the jaffa cake controversy (https://www.astonshaw.co.uk/news/jaffa-cake-tax/) up.

[randomlegend]

General election is about who runs the country (all of it), single issue cunts can get fucked.

What about ME? What about MY pet causes? It's ME that matters most, fuck the other 66 million people.

It's been very clear during numerous arguments we've had on here that you vote solely based on what you think will be best for you personally, so that's a pretty hilarious stance to take.

[Spikey M]

We need to deal with the crippling inequality women face in society Jim. Like, erm...

[Jimmy Floyd]

I thought the binning off NICs for the self-employed was a desperate pitch to get white van man back from Reform, while knowing they'll never have to actually implement it.

Private school VAT would be a good way of fucking up private schools if you wanted to do that, because it would take out all of the people who can currently only just afford it and restrict it to the freako rich.

[Spikey M]

It's been very clear during numerous arguments we've had on here that you vote solely based on what you think will be best for you personally, so that's a pretty hilarious stance to take.

Who doesn't?

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's been very clear during numerous arguments we've had on here that you vote solely based on what you think will be best for you personally, so that's a pretty hilarious stance to take.

There's almost nothing at stake for me personally in any election, so I don't think I've ever voted on those grounds. Country first.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We need to deal with the crippling inequality women face in society Jim. Like, erm...

Presumably their headline policy is to cut import tariffs on all Chinese drop-shipping operations.

[niko_cee]

Private school VAT would be a good way of fucking up private schools if you wanted to do that, because it would take out all of the people who can currently only just afford it and restrict it to the freako rich.

Maybe they should have a floor for when VAT becomes payable, to catch the big name players charging 50k a year or whatever, but not so much the weird little independent schools teaching orthodox Jews, or, no wait, let's just lump them all in together.

I'm always struck when I see those little independent schools which look no bigger than a house and wonder who would send their children there? Special children, obviously.

[Pepe]

Every kid going to private school is a kid you do not need to subsidize with your taxes.

[Spikey M]

If you need me to help fund your brat going to posh school, then you shouldn't be sending your brat to posh school.

[niko_cee]

And if you hire a lawyer to defend you in court you are saving the public money from legal aid costs, but you pay VAT on the lawyer's fees, as it's a service, and whilst the system obviously has many nuances [I think private medical care might be VAT exempt :/] I'm not sure that sort of transactional/ring-fenced funding logic really holds.

VAT on gym membership? Yes if for profit, no if not apparently. Saving the health service money.

[Pepe]

What if partially funding "posh school" costs you less than fully funding public school?

[niko_cee]

If that were the case you could probably come up with a better funding arrangement than a blanket tax break for all who can afford it, depending on your political outlook.

We had this very debate in Guernsey where the government blew up an existing 11-plus/grammar school/state funded places at posh school system and has spent nearly 10 years doing very little in the ensuing clusterfuck.

[Luke Emia]

So Rishi is saying that he didn't have SKY when he was a kid. Wasn't even launched until 1990 when he was 10 and I wouldn't say it was really mainstream in people's homes until what probably the late 90's?

[niko_cee]

I remember getting Sky whilst there was still BSB and BSkyB [edit, apparently it was just Sky and later merged with BSB], his parents were obviously putting too much family money into his school fees.

WWF on Sky One my first taste. :cool:

[Spikey M]

And he still grew up to be a fanny.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We got ours because my old man wanted to watch the West Indies v England series in which we got trounced in the late 90s, so that would have been 97-98 winter.

Quite a big outlay for the privilege of watching Angus Fraser trundle in imo.

[Yevrah]

The way one would normally brush away the rich boy noise would be to focus on competence, but he can't do that so we are where we are.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I remember getting Sky whilst there was still BSB and BSkyB [edit, apparently it was just Sky and later merged with BSB], his parents were obviously putting too much family money into his school fees.

WWF on Sky One my first taste. :cool:

The only real reason to get Sky back then.

Attitude Era :drool:

[Pepe]

I remember when Sky showed up in Mexico and started poaching a couple of football games a week from public TV. I was SEETHING.

[Pepe]

Which reminds me of when we had one of those bootleg cable boxes that had all channels unlocked. Playboy TV :drool:. I remember when Braveheart was on PPV. Must have watched it at least ten times. The box would die every few months, so we needed to go get it replaced frequently. The lads running the business operated out of a church.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Which reminds me of when we had one of those bootleg cable boxes that had all channels unlocked. Playboy TV :drool:. I remember when Braveheart was on PPV. Must have watched it at least ten times. The box would die every few months, so we needed to go get it replaced frequently. The lads running the business operated out of a church.

They were doing God's work.

[Lofty]

And he still grew up to be a fanny.

No 10 minute freeview to put hairs on his chest.

[niko_cee]

You could get RTL and other European channels on the early sky boxes. Absolute filth.

:drool:

All went out the window whenever Sky Digital hit.

[Yevrah]

RTL. :drool:

[John Arne]

When MTV was channel 14 :drool:

[niko_cee]

One of Rishi Sunak’s closest parliamentary aides placed a £100 bet on a July election just three days before the prime minister named the date, the Guardian can reveal.

The Gambling Commission is understood to have launched an inquiry after Craig Williams, the prime minister’s parliamentary private secretary, who became an MP in 2019, placed a bet with the bookmaker Ladbrokes on Sunday 19 May in his local constituency of Montgomeryshire.

He's probably got Lucas Paqueta running his polling operation.

[phonics]

It's amazing how much these people in control of a country treat it as absolutely small time.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Part of the problem with politics these days, and part of the reason why politicians are so shit, is that most of the elite class see national politics as small fry and the real money and prestige and power is to be had by rubbing shoulders with 'global', which means American, elites. Also means there are almost no proper patriots in the top echelons of any political party. On the backbenches there are, in all parties.

No prizes for guessing who was the first British PM to think like this but I think it's been true for every one since except Brown and May.

[Shindig]

Our Workers Party candidate has just put something through the door calling the Labour bloke an extremist.

Turns out that's Galloway's lot. :D Their branding seems decidedly 'Join the RAF'.

[7om]

Was Starmer’s mother a nurse in the NHS?

[niko_cee]

I think she was a tooltaker.

[Jimmy Floyd]

His reaction to the toolmaker guffawing summed up the man. Not even a semblance of a sense of humour in there.

[Lewis]

Why?

The more pent-up seethe we have in 2029 the better (assuming somebody can tap it).

[niko_cee]

Yeah, big labour win with Sir Ed Dayout egging them on to rejoin the EU on a weekly basis has the potential for some fairly ruinous scenes by the end of the decade.

[Ben]

Starmer accuses Sunak of a Corbyn manifesto, then immediately himself pledges to nationalise energy and rail. :happycry:

[Lofty]

Nationalising Rail policies piss me off because they've been doing it under the radar for years. Half the TOCs are run by the state in all but name now anyway.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Renationalisation is proper careful-what-you-wish-for stuff. The state hardly functions as it is.

[Magic]

Renationalisation is proper careful-what-you-wish-for stuff. The state hardly functions as it is.

Works ok up here (I'd rather it be shite and state run than shite and profit run).

[Jimmy Floyd]

The more pent-up seethe we have in 2029 the better (assuming somebody can tap it).

This involves Nigel Farage leading the resistance from outside Parliament - and he's going around today suggesting exactly that. Culture wars forever, this time along institutional lines.

[Lofty]

Of course he is, he has seen the Trump fundraising model.

[Yevrah]

It staggers me just how many parties are up for binning Trident off. While I didn't agree with it (as you never know what's round the corner) I could at least understand Henry's take on binning it off all those years ago, but now? Have these people run mad?

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's basically the same as being pro-Russia, China and Iran, and probably Israel while we're at it.

[Lofty]

I bet Ukraine would like to swap those Russian assurances about sovereignty for a dozen ICBMs right about now.

[Boydy]

1801306535714345354

Nothing's going to change.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That's what it takes to get elected. The real test is what they actually do.

[Spikey M]

They know they can get elected whilst also promising basically nothing, so that's what they're doing. It's the smart thing to do. Why make big promises if you don't have to?

As Jim says, the question is; what will they actually do. I don't believe nothing will change. I think they'll attempt quite a bit of change, I just don't think it's going to be popular. The country is in deep trouble, and I'm not sure there's a pain free way through it. Nor am I sure these are the people we want at the wheel for it. But again - as Jim has said - we have no leaders of any real quality left in British Politics. So if not them, who?

[Lewis]

*nods sagely*

[Gray Fox]

That's what it takes to get elected. The real test is what they actually do.

Indeed. He hasn't had to come off the fence for many things, if any. Just sat back and let Rishi do his own damage. The polls suggest the voters aren't all in on him either, they just want not-Tory.

Once he's in office he won't have such luxuries. I suspect the 2029 election will end in nobody near a majority, unless he's going to suddenly turn into a great PM.

[Jimmy Floyd]

*nods sagely*

Are you going to be involved in the military coup is that more of an army thing?

[Luke Emia]

1801306535714345354

Nothing's going to change.

Where is the money coming from? That’s the problem, no point in promising a load of things they don’t know if the money is even going to be there for.

The Tories are coming out with loads of old shite trying to lay traps for Labour because they know they will never have to cash the cheque. Better to just let them do their thing as it’s not moving the needle at all and then once they are in especially if they have a big majority they can start coming up with actual plans.

[Luke Emia]

On the tax and spend side of things anyway someone needs to just level with the country and explain that either taxes will have to go up across the board or spending cuts are needed it’s one or the other but be honest about it and say to people that’s what needs to happen. We also need to actually tackle the issues of the country rather than just blaming everything on foreigners.

NHS is a prime example it’s a money pit and will continue to be so until we tackle the underlying cause of why it’s a money pit. We are a country of fat cunts who eat terribly, if something was done to try and tackle that issue the cost of the NHS would decrease massively. But nobody wants to tell people stop eating shit because at the end of the day our economy is built on people buying and selling shit they don’t actually have a need for.

[Lewis]

Are you going to be involved in the military coup is that more of an army thing?

The WOKE military haven't got it in them. We might have to go down the Ukraine route of Nigel Farage-aligned paramilitaries.

[Shindig]

I wonder how much of the pandemic cost really hit the coffers. Like, I see the number £410bn and it looks massive but has some of that been clawed back?

[randomlegend]

NHS is a prime example it’s a money pit and will continue to be so until we tackle the underlying cause of why it’s a money pit. We are a country of fat cunts who eat terribly, if something was done to try and tackle that issue the cost of the NHS would decrease massively. But nobody wants to tell people stop eating shit because at the end of the day our economy is built on people buying and selling shit they don’t actually have a need for.

There's a lot more to it than this.

As medical science improves, the cost of a publicly funded healthcare service will naturally increase for a myriad of reasons.

People live for longer, accumulating numerous health problems which all require treatment. This multi-morbidity is difficult to manage. This is expensive, both because this person requires 30 years more healthcare than they would've in the 50s, but also because that healthcare is far more complex.

New treatments also allow people with certain conditions who would've had a very limited lifespan (potentially even dying in infancy) to live for many years, sometimes virtually a normal lifespan. This is expensive. Take cystic fibrosis as an example. At the start of the last century, it was a death sentence in infancy. Even within the last 50 years people would typically die in their teens or early twenties. Now - with the advent of CFTR modulators - people can have an essentially normal lifespan. That's 80 years of complex, high intensity healthcare and CFTR modulators are costly drugs.

Treatments are more complex. Even in the short time I've been in medicine, the management for something as common and relatively simple as an MI ("heart attack") has exploded in complexity. This is expensive.

Some new treatments are extremely clever, but extremely expensive. E.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-64629680

There is a nonsense purveyed by politicians that the NHS constantly requiring more money (in real terms) means something is going wrong. That is not true. Healthcare is simply becoming more expensive because it has more to offer, and people want access to it on the publicly funded service.

If you want 2024 treatment for your heart attack - which is drastically more complex and expensive than 1994 treatment was - then it has to be paid for. Therefore the budget will need to grow in real terms per capita. If you want to pay for the NHS at 1994 levels then it will only be able to offer you 1994 level treatment when you clog up your left descending coronary.

That is absolutely not to say the NHS doesn't have bloat and inefficiency because it absolutely does. Much of it's budget is also wasted dealing with social care issues because the social care budget is inadequate, but that's another story. But ultimately, if you want your baby to be able to have £2m life-saving gene therapy then the demands on funding will continue to grow.

[Lewis]

What could have been if we had let the pandemic rip. Collapse the NHS and re-build it like a civilised country. No queues in Tesco on a Saturday morning. Housing surplus. Trickle-down inheritance. But no. Fucking Paddington Bearland had to be pathetic.

[igor_balis]

if only gordon brown hadn't sold the gold

[Pepe]

Bring the death panels.

[Spikey M]

I'd make fun of Lewis, but I'm not 100% sure he isn't going to be our Idi Amin in 5 years or so.

[Yevrah]

How on earth does any one off treatment cost £2.875m? I mean, what in the actual fuck?

[Lewis]

I'd make fun of Lewis, but I'm not 100% sure he isn't going to be our Idi Amin in 5 years or so.

https://i.imgur.com/LKYuZPO.png

Complete with the 'Amin' and 'Amout' desk trays.

[randomlegend]

How on earth does any one off treatment cost £2.875m? I mean, what in the actual fuck?

Well it's a rare condition and a novel, complex treatment.

The drug company will have spent X (large) amount of money on research and development in order to come up with the treatment. That then has to be recouped (and a profit made, obviously). Being a rare condition, there will be relatively few times the treatment will be required, therefore the price of each needs to be high.

The actual cost price of the treatment will be relatively high because it's far more involved than churning out billions of paracetamol, but the above is where the majority of the cost will come from.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw880334dgyo

Quincy's Dad?

[Ben]

1802732944412344574

Obligatory potential outcome:
LAB 505
LD 86
CON 23
REF 0

[niko_cee]

When does the Faustian pact with Nigel get proposed? Or who even does the proposing? Stand down in a few select seats, couple of promissory Lordships here and there, some seats on a future cabinet . . .

[niko_cee]

Can't believe there's still more than two weeks of this to go. Think I prefer the French timetable.

[Spikey M]

The longer this rumbles on the less I want to vote for any of them. Shower of patronising, disingenuous bastards. None of them, save for maybe Nigel Farage and the fucking Green Party, believe a word they are saying.

[Yevrah]

The longer this rumbles on the less I want to vote for any of them. Shower of patronising, disingenuous bastards.

I have to say this is very much increasingly becoming my take. I was nailed on to vote for Labour before the election was announced but their campaign has been so toilet to date I may actually spoil my balot now.

[phonics]

Working at a printers during this season is interesting. I've just printed 50,000 JK Rowling inspired transpeople are trying to make us call breasts chesticles flyers and now moving onto a 'Was Enoch Powell right?' set.

[niko_cee]

Some Rishi protection copper has been arrested for betting on the date of the election? :D

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Arrest Rishi for putting out insider info.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Some Rishi protection copper has been arrested for betting on the date of the election? :D

Love to know whose job it is at a bookmaker to sift through all winning bets and see if they can get the winners arrested.

Probably everyone's.

[7om]

Is it at all feasible that the Conservatives get wiped out to such an extent that, rather than trying to cooperate with Reform, they go one step further and try and get Nige in as leader?

[Ben]

I don't think so. Farage is a proven loser at elections for one, and although they're getting what's coming to them this time around I would think the core Conservative party members would rather get back to their roots rather than have a tubthumper with no clue how actual government works in charge.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Nige would shy away from it anyway, he is a TV personality, not an actual politician. Doesn't want responsibility. As soon as this election is over he'll be in the US.

[Ben]

Latest polls have Sunak losing his seat.

[Spikey M]

Nige would shy away from it anyway, he is a TV personality, not an actual politician. Doesn't want responsibility. As soon as this election is over he'll be in the US.

I could see him playing second fiddle in a Boris reboot, which is an absolutely disgusting prospect.

[niko_cee]

Love to know whose job it is at a bookmaker to sift through all winning bets and see if they can get the winners arrested.

Probably everyone's.

:D

Probably.

Seems they've maybe sifted another.

This (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09y2zdh) was such a great documentary about someone who beat the bastards.

[phonics]

Working at a printers during this season is interesting. I've just printed 50,000 JK Rowling inspired transpeople are trying to make us call breasts chesticles flyers and now moving onto a 'Was Enoch Powell right?' set.

The JK Rowling nutter is now accusing us and the Royal Mail of electoral discrimination.

[Ben]

Farage's "The West caused the Ukraine war" line getting a lot of airtime in the media. Surely this will tank Reform? Whatever he thinks personally, it's a tiny minority opinion in the UK.

[Lewis]

The absolute inability/unwillingness of people to consider that perspective goes a long way to explaining why he's right.

[Spikey M]

Farage's "The West caused the Ukraine war" line getting a lot of airtime in the media. Surely this will tank Reform? Whatever he thinks personally, it's a tiny minority opinion in the UK.

Nobody gives a fuck about Ukraine anymore.

[Ben]

Nobody gives a fuck about Ukraine anymore.

That’s true, but everyone still overreacts to sound bites that go against the grain. The polls in the coming days might be telling.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The absolute inability/unwillingness of people to consider that perspective goes a long way to explaining why he's right.

It's because no one has any respect for Russia (due to them being fucking useless for the duration of everyone's lifetimes) and so think we are within our rights to do what we want and that they are not an important rival civilsation. If it was China or something then you'd have more luck.

[Lewis]

The same spastics who thought Afghanistan could be turned into a functioning democracy, Iraq would be a walkover, Libya would be fine without its government, and that the 'moderate opposition' in Syria were legitimate. Aren't we lucky to have people who think like that escalating conflict with a nuclear superpower on our behalf.

[Yevrah]

I don't know why people keep going on about this - the war ended over two years ago, just as everyone said it would, with a swift victory for our Ukranian brothers and sisters supported by the seekers of truth and justice from the democratic World.

Can we move on now please?

[niko_cee]

With all this betting furore someone should ask the betting companies how many Politically Exposed People have placed losing bets on the date of the election and whether these are being urgently voided as well.

[Spikey M]

1805214808259576004?t=PgvGvmRmgDCOXiIRK7LsKw&s=19

[Ben]

Admirable that they’re all trying to get jailed on their way out.

[Baz]

Please explain like I’m 5 what I’m voting for on 4th July. I thought I was voting for the prime minister but apparently I can only vote for local MPs standing in my constituency, and therefore can only vote for Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem, Reform, Green, or Independent. So can’t vote for Animal Welfare or Women’s Equality?

Gonna have to be Lib Dem cos the local Labour woman (Marie Rimmer) is a corrupt scumbag, who also refused to vote for a ceasefire when she had the chance.

[niko_cee]

What's your constituency? Yeah, you can only vote for candidates standing in your area, so if there's no affiliate link garden football workplace affair candidate standing then you can't vote for them.

[Baz]

St Helens South and Whiston constituency.

Never heard of Brian Spencer and he’s not bothered to litter my letterbox with propaganda so he seems sound. Yellows, it is.

[niko_cee]

The Lib Dem looks like Iain Duncan Smith's alcoholic brother.

Not sure about the independent's picture, and he's also another bald.

[niko_cee]

98% chance of winning (https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=St%20Helens%20South%20and%20Wh iston)

:happycry:

Enjoy your corruption.

Edit, sorry, 100% (https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/calcwork23.py?seat=St%20Helens%20South%20and%20Whi ston).

:rotate:

[Gray Fox]

She's called Rimmer though so she's the real loser.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://media1.tenor.com/m/p7_2bm_zPy8AAAAC/red-dwarf-rimmer.gif

[Boydy]

You should have to take a test to earn your vote.

[Yevrah]

You should have to take a test to earn your vote.

Or just agree politically with the people that say this.

[Baz]

98% chance of winning (https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=St%20Helens%20South%20and%20Wh iston)

:happycry:

Enjoy your corruption.

Edit, sorry, 100% (https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/calcwork23.py?seat=St%20Helens%20South%20and%20Whi ston).

:rotate:Never in doubt. My father in law says a monkey with a red rosette would get voted in round here, and he’s not wrong. Would be preferable, actually.

[niko_cee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cll476qzm85o

This whole story is so mental. That's a whole year of VAT on private school fees. Just such a litany of disaster that stemmed from not just letting a bunch of people die, most of whom probably died anyway. Not even particularly corrupt, just incompetence on an unimaginable scale.

[Pepe]

Government wasting money? Unheard of.

[randomlegend]

Just because it happens a lot doesn't make it not worthy of scorn.

[Pepe]

Didn't say it wasn't. Wanting to give them even more money though, that seems unwise.

[Lewis]

The mongs criticising the government for over-ordering protective equipment, and the costs of storing it, are the same people who spent the opening phase of the pandemic calling them incompetent for not having had an emergency stockpile ready to go.

[Pepe]

They should've had the right amount of PPE at the right time at the lowest price.

I still lol at the Americans buying PPE out of the French hands in the airport.

[randomlegend]

The mongs criticising the government for over-ordering protective equipment, and the costs of storing it, are the same people who spent the opening phase of the pandemic calling them incompetent for not having had an emergency stockpile ready to go.

As far as I can tell, the reason they've wasted so much money on PPE is precisely because they didn't have any stockpiled nor any plans.

The pandemic meant they suddenly needed loads of PPE they didn't have. The rest of the world also needed loads of PPE. This companies could charge whatever the liked for it. The lack of planning meant they had no idea how much they actually needed or how much of what they ordered would end up being supplied, so they massively overshot.

No planning and no stockpiles = panic buying huge amounts of overpriced PPE.

[niko_cee]

There are multiple layers to the story.

1. Nurse realises how dreadful NHS procurement is and so sets up a company to supply the NHS/exploit that 'problem' [good old $50 loaves of bread on prescription etc] and does pretty well out of it.

2. Pandemic comes along and everyone loses their mind. Is it too much to ask for something in between letting everyone die and spending god knows how many billions on nothing? They offshore the company for 'privacy reasons' aka so as to conceal the insane margins they would have made on these deals. If the government wants to slide me the best part of a billion quid then I'll happily pay tax on it as if it were income with a totally clear conscience. :/

[Pepe]

I reckon that keeping a stockpile would be far more expensive, or "wasteful", than panic buying was.

[niko_cee]

Particularly seeing as it 'goes off' every three years or something, so you'd need to be constantly buying it, albeit at much lower costs, presumably.

[Yevrah]

I reckon that keeping a stockpile would be far more expensive, or "wasteful", than panic buying was.

I wondered whether this would actually be the case. I mean, we haven't had a pandemic for 100 years, presumably this stuff has a shelf life (both in terms of how long it lasts and how quickly it's superseded) and then you have to store the fucking stuff.

It's incredibly lazy to accuse the government of wasting shitloads of money without looking into the above and clearly these companies were able to charge what they liked as everyone was caught with their pants down - it wasn't just us.

[Yevrah]

Particularly seeing as it 'goes off' every three years or something, so you'd need to be constantly buying it, albeit at much lower costs, presumably.

If it actually is three years then there's not a chance in hell was it worth stockpiling.

[niko_cee]

From the story:


“It had either a two- or three-year shelf life. This means the PPE products are more likely to have passed their use-by date.”

:cab:

[Pepe]

My favorite part is the use of 'nurse salary' as currency.


Wes Streeting, the shadow health secretary, said the money lost "could have been used to pay the salaries of 37,000 nurses"

Great, and none of them would've had a mask and therefore they would all refuse to work.

[Lewis]

As far as I can tell, the reason they've wasted so much money on PPE is precisely because they didn't have any stockpiled nor any plans.

The pandemic meant they suddenly needed loads of PPE they didn't have. The rest of the world also needed loads of PPE. This companies could charge whatever the liked for it. The lack of planning meant they had no idea how much they actually needed or how much of what they ordered would end up being supplied, so they massively overshot.

No planning and no stockpiles = panic buying huge amounts of overpriced PPE.

This was every country because keeping a stockpile costs a lot of money. The contract was signed in April 2020, so would you have advised them against buying too much of it had you been in the room?

[niko_cee]

There's too much of it, and then there's face masks and aprons for every person on the planet.

[igor_balis]

Lewis, have you always been this contrarian? The guardian could publish an article saying "cooking and eating Albanians is bad" and you'd be posting your eye rolling emoji and saying "the same people moaning about this were whining about food poverty but now they're being provided delicious Balkan meat they're complaining"

[niko_cee]

I see some Labour bod has got in on the betting scandal by ostensibly betting against themselves.

:D

I respect that.

Hopefully his stake was a few years' MP salary.

[Ben]

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html

Almost certainly a load of bollocks but fascinating reading nonetheless. According to this CON don't have a single seat with a greater than 50% chance of winning, and even their three safest seats before this election campaign are predicted to go Liberal. CON predicted to gain no seats, hold just 76, and 10 of those have a majority of under 1% so could easily slip away if they have another gaffe in them. 50-99 seats now big odds on with the bookies and LD down to 3/1 to be the Opposition. Jim might be right.

[niko_cee]

Thangham Debbonaire predicted to lose to the greens on that.

:drool:

I mean, what sort of name is that for a Labour politician? Or has she been parachuted elsewhere?

[Ben]

Nope, she's standing in Bristol still. Bristol just being Bristol probably.

[Ben]

Also, I've noticed Reform have got a shitload of marketing material out there. Who is funding them in this election? Last I saw they were relying on Tice's wallet and it wasn't limitless.

[niko_cee]

George Soros, Vladimir Putin and Don Quixote.

[Lofty]

The problem is there is a significant amount of people who will vote for banter options because politics is boring. My in laws voted for Boris along these lines but then never linked the whole country in shambles to it. Also a basic failure of understanding the system in this country, as per a conversation at the weekend 'I'm going to vote Farage', 'I didn't realise Reform were running a candidate in your constituency.' 'Huh?'

[7om]

If I were to place a bet, I reckon Conservatives will do better than the polls. I really wouldn’t be surprised if they ended up with 110 seats.

[Ben]

Ladbrokes have Under 99.5 at 8/13. FT reckon 101 seats but that seems to drop with every passing day.

90-100 range seems most likely at the moment to me. If you fancy 110, you could make a few quid taking on Ladbrokes (100-149 is at 9/4 currently).

[Luke Emia]

Labour now have a 68% chance of winning round here by the looks of things. Truss is down to 28%, time to suck it up and vote red for the first time ever to get rid of her once and for all.

[niko_cee]

Reservoir Dogs 2 rumoured.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/FsNm8QyRrTBr3.4dzv787g--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTcwNTtoPTQ3MA--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/snappa.ukfinance/c3caf70addb9acd1dc334f25617c4a04

[Baz]

My betting group have gone absolutely balls deep in Reform to get 7+ seats at 7/4. Is this something I should be getting my wages involved in?

[Ben]

Everything I’m seeing puts them more around the 3-5 seats region.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'd be astonished if they got 7. I'll be moderately surprised if they get 2. They seem to be in play in a couple of Essex seats and Anderson's.

[Spikey M]

They'll get Clacton. That's about it.

They will get a respectable %age of the vote though. It just means fuck all in our faux democracy.

[niko_cee]

The term you're looking for is representative democracy.

[phonics]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRERpMKWYAAaL9N.jpg

This is top of the definitely never happened list. Even the name Margaret makes it reek of made upness.

[Ben]

I'd be astonished if they got 7. I'll be moderately surprised if they get 2. They seem to be in play in a couple of Essex seats and Anderson's.

They seem quite popular in that weird East Lincs region so maybe there's a seat or two there.

[Baz]

So you’re saying to limit myself to £250?

[Lofty]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRERpMKWYAAaL9N.jpg

This is top of the definitely never happened list. Even the name Margaret makes it reek of made upness.

The Guardian? They print any old shit, look at all the bollocks Jack Monroe made up for them without question over the years.

I suppose if you are annoyed with the tories/are racist but really hate Starmer then Farage is your man.

I've said it before and I'll say it again but there are a lot of casually racist Tory voters and they would have been iffy about Sunak without the disasterclass, the members picked Truss over him ffs.

[niko_cee]

Channel 4 did a really weird AI stealing your votes programme last night which I couldn't really get my head around. They seemed to show a bunch of obviously already decided voters obviously false 'AI generated' propaganda stuff, which they appeared to be required to consume in a vacuum, with no resort to critical thinking, with the conclusion being IT REALLY MAKES YOU THINK when they all followed the AI with their votes. It was odd. Has social media actually destroyed brains? Are the true, or perhaps only the early born-in-the-1980s millenials the only generation that has any hope against it?

[niko_cee]

Just had the local Labour candidate knocking on doors. He seemed pleased as my wife has put up Labour posters to alienate all the oldies who live around here/are all our neighbours. :face: He's the first one I've seen so I'll probably vote for him. Accused the, according to electoral calculus hot favourite, Lib Dem of having a Joe Biden level performance at the local hustings, which I thought was quite funny. He is old.

[Luke Emia]

Yeah we had someone door knocking for one of the independent candidates the other day. She seemed somewhat put out when I advised her I would be voting for whoever had the best chance of beating Truss(although good I really do hope she door knocks in the village as her constituency house is only down the road).

We also got a leaflet through for the Communist Party. Now, far be it for me to tell them where to stand but seeing as they are only standing 14 candidates throughout the UK and this was one of the highest voting areas and most right wing areas in the whole country I cannot see standing here is the best use of their resources.

[Ben]

Nobody round here yet. The incumbent Tory isn’t wasting his time evidently as it looks like he is one and gone, and as a result likewise the Labour candidate isn’t bothering because they’re going to win either way. We don’t really attract fringe parties here.

[Spikey M]

I had some Jehovah's the other day. First time since about 2006. Apparently god allows suffering because Eve ate that apple. Now, you might recall that god omniraped Mary, to create a baby of himself, and then spent 30 odd years manipulating the Romans into nailing him to a cross so that he could forgive us? Well, no. It wasn't fucking good enough. Suffer scum.

Still, between them and the Tories...

[phonics]

As a printer it was fun to have the local Labour MP ask us for a quote for his materials, be told we're too expensive and he'd be going elsewhere. The issue being any printed material is mandated to name the company and address that printed it. So our Labour MP that proudly states that he's standing to 'support local businesses in Worcester' has the address of an online printer thats based in Holland and listed on the NASDAQ not even the FTSE.

[niko_cee]

Not sure Eve was Jesus' mum but let's go with it, why not. I hope you said that to them and it left them really confused.

[Shindig]

Eve was created from Adam's rib or something. All life stems from a man fucking his clone.

[Spikey M]

Mary ffs.

But no. I didn't say that to them. I said "I'm working at the moment, sorry." took the leaflet, and read it while sitting through Teams meeting on Service Charge calculations.

[phonics]

I had some Jehovah's the other day. First time since about 2006. Apparently god allows suffering because Eve ate that apple. Now, you might recall that god omniraped Eve, to create a baby of himself, and then spent 30 odd years manipulating the Romans into nailing him to a cross so that he could forgive us? Well, no. It wasn't fucking good enough. Suffer scum.

Still, between them and the Tories...

I think you may have confused the Bible with Greek Mythology somewhere.

Not to 'needless to say I had the last laugh' but any mention of Jehovahs Witnesses leads me to a memory when I was 14/15. Smoking a cigarette waiting for the bus. An American Jehovah said 'Aren't you a little young for that?' and I immediately came back with 'Aren't you a little old for that?' gesturing towards all his bible basher gear. I felt on top of the world for a week.

[Lewis]

Lewis, have you always been this contrarian? The guardian could publish an article saying "cooking and eating Albanians is bad" and you'd be posting your eye rolling emoji and saying "the same people moaning about this were whining about food poverty but now they're being provided delicious Balkan meat they're complaining"

I don't think 'contrarian' is the word. I'm always calling the government shit for various things, but there are obvious and sensible reasons why we never had any protective equipment stockpiled, we ended up with loads of it, and now we aren't keeping a stockpile of it. If your belief that the government was somehow uniquely useless in all of this prevents you from recognising that then what can you say?

[Manc]

I've had all the leaflets posted today. Tories are promising £2.5 billion for a new transport network. Vote secured.

[Lofty]

My local tory MP has sent a leaflet through saying she is going to reopen a rail station and reckons she is going to get the buffers taken out at Ormskirk so Merseyrail trains can run all the way to Preston. Given my job is all about that stuff, I eagerly await any canvassers calling so I can outline all the ways that won't be happening.

[Lofty]

1807141707571454290

[Lewis]

Are those boomer cringe merchants still going? Like a 'Let's Go Brandon' sticker on a log burner.

[niko_cee]

France ending up with a run off choice between the national front and some Hollande fronted communist alliance seems the logical end position of an electoral system specifically designed to thwart both of those parts of politics.

[Pepe]

Melenchon, not Hollande.

[niko_cee]

Nah, the new popular front, not France Unbowed.

[Pepe]

I think they are all together.