General Election 2024: Gone on the 4th of July

[Jimmy Floyd]

Can you not just go pression grand or whatever? Although I do like the, in my mind, incivility of just saying fifty. Kind of fits the French.

It's always vingt-cinq and cinquante in my experience, maybe I've been in too many out-of-town budget hotel bars at 11pm.

[Spikey M]

I think most people hear 'benefit fraud' and think people working whilst claiming or something relatively well-organised, when in fact everybody knows [of] somebody who will be claiming as a single mother and living with somebody etc.

Elsewhere, 'they never cost the taxpayer a penny' is a good defence for taking freebies to be fair. Well, would you rather we just embezzled it? Would you?

Yeah, people on single claims living together is probably 90% of what I report, with the other 10% being self employed people not declaring it. They do nothing about either.

[Yevrah]

Tell us more about being propositioned Spikey...

[Jimmy Floyd]

Don't we all have a red line amount of misery that we'd suck a council worker off to escape from? Some of us might sink lower than others, I suppose.

[Shindig]

Do you still have that drawer full of bungs from your boss?

[Pepe]

It really does feel like this is just another Tory leader and reshuffle. It's only marginally less shambolic than the Truss effort.

We have some serious issues in this country. A country of stagnation and decline, and all they've managed so far is to release a load of prisoners, lock up a fresh load of thick cunts, kill Boydy's nan, get embroiled in a donations scandle and threaten to make life even harder for pubs that are already going bust up and down the country.

Still no mention of taxing the wealthy, council tax reform or landlord and dividend taxes. Get Two Tier, Free Gear, No Beer Starmer in the fucking sea. Jesus.

So you think that your government is shit, but you want them to take more money and power? You don't see the issue there?

[Kikó]

Don't tax the wealthy. Trickle down economics will make sure we're all rich.

[Jimmy Floyd]

All that taxing the wealthy on their assets does is make you feel better, they will just dodge it or move abroad to an even greater extent than they already do.

Council tax is the big one for me, you need to start hitting huge valuable homes hard, as that's a tax you can't dodge or hide in the Cayman Islands. We're still doing council tax on 1991 bands which is insane. Might also help unscrew the housing market, which is why they won't do it.

[Boydy]

1838873779256119603

:lol:

[Shindig]

That one's sensible. Gets the kid a place to study that isn't bothered by the press. £20k flat in London is clearly some kind of hovel anyway.

[Yevrah]

Starting an argument with the NHS and refusing to back down when you're supposed to be the party on their side is pretty impressive as well.

[Lewis]

That sounds like the sort of paid-for educational advantage that ought to come with a VAT bill.

[Spikey M]

So you think that your government is shit, but you want them to take more money and power? You don't see the issue there?

No, I'd like them to stop squeezing the middle and address wealthy people finding ways to avoid paying their share.

[Pepe]

Let's say your government manages to get the 'fair share' of taxes out of all those rich assholes and/or that council tax mentioned above. Then what? Do you really think they'll manage to put even a single pound of that into good use?

[Spikey M]

Of course not, they'll waste it wherever it comes from, but they're going to do so anyway, so who gets rinsed is all there is left to argue.

[Pepe]

Then you should focus on getting rinsed less first as opposed to others getting rinsed more.

I do like reading about all those corruption scandals. Reminds me a bit of Mexico. 🙂

[Jimmy Floyd]

Sir Beer Korma (we should have known) isn't even the biggest problem with this government, that is the Foreign Secretary, who is a walking fucking embarrassment and needs to be sacked really urgently before he makes a serious mess. Never seen anyone so out of their depth.

1838852878863147052

[Boydy]

That one's sensible. Gets the kid a place to study that isn't bothered by the press. £20k flat in London is clearly some kind of hovel anyway.

They're not buying somewhere for 20 grand. That'll have been rent for a few months.

[Boydy]

Sir Beer Korma (we should have known) isn't even the biggest problem with this government, that is the Foreign Secretary, who is a walking fucking embarrassment and needs to be sacked really urgently before he makes a serious mess. Never seen anyone so out of their depth.

1838852878863147052

He was praising Azerbaijan for doing some ethnic cleansing the other day.

[Shindig]

They're not buying somewhere for 20 grand. That'll have been rent for a few months.

Oh. :D

[Spikey M]

Sir Beer Korma (we should have known) isn't even the biggest problem with this government, that is the Foreign Secretary, who is a walking fucking embarrassment and needs to be sacked really urgently before he makes a serious mess. Never seen anyone so out of their depth.

1838852878863147052

Jesus. :happycry:

[Spikey M]

Oh. :D

You could just about buy a burger and a pint 50cl glass of beer in London for 20 grand.

[Boydy]

1838918540100841932

[Yevrah]

This stuff really isn't a good look when you've spent the last few years telling everyone how corrupt the tories are and you're meant to be the good guys.

Emperor Farage gets a step closer.

[Yevrah]

Given he hasn't actually really made (m)any unpopular decisions yet this is grim stuff as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgn155lr1ro

I'm not reaching for the lettuce just yet but he seems to have a huge blind spot when it comes to how messaging works and the impact of doing it badly.

[Boydy]

1838964556934041688

1838954772109418933

I can't get enough of this shit. :drool:

[Lewis]

I read a good post on it earlier speculating that they simply can't conceive of how it looks bad because it was all declared and 'within the rules', like they sub-contract all of their thinking and morality out to wanky process, and it sounds like the most convincing explanation.

[Boydy]

1838976847670894726

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/FUB7jqRXEAkzAph.jpg

[Spikey M]

I just want to live in a serious country with competent leaders.

[Spikey M]

1838983505180582260?t=-RxRO-jpQiQtFDAw63yAGg&s=19

[Kikó]

This is the last thing they wanted to happen.

[Shindig]

That depends on the criminals, really.

[niko_cee]

Is Ian Huntley still going? What about that rapist murderer cop? Have they mistakenly released Charles Bronson or whatever name he goes by now?

[Luke Emia]

All this Labour freebies shit. Surely is being fed by the Tories, just turn the fire back on them because what they would have been taking would more than likely have been ten times worse.

[Jimmy Floyd]

When I read Guido's headline 'Starmer used Alli penthouse for Queen tribute' I was imagining him breaking out the feather duster for a rendition of I Want To Break Free.

[Yevrah]

All this Labour freebies shit. Surely is being fed by the Tories, just turn the fire back on them because what they would have been taking would more than likely have been ten times worse.

They will have done but that doesn’t matter now as they’re not in power and gave up on looking competent and having integrity years ago anyway. Labour should have been different. They were promising they’d be different.

[Spikey M]

All this Labour freebies shit. Surely is being fed by the Tories, just turn the fire back on them because what they would have been taking would more than likely have been ten times worse.

Of course it is, but it's also true and a bad look when Labour made so much noise about similar when in opposition.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If you win votes on being the party of working people, you need to act like you're the party of working people. If people vote in the party of coke-snorting aristocrats then they at least know what they're getting.

[Luke Emia]

When I read Guido's headline 'Starmer used Alli penthouse for Queen tribute' I was imagining him breaking out the feather duster for a rendition of I Want To Break Free.

I was just thinking thought he was an Arsenal fan wants he doing hanging around with Dele Alli?

[Yevrah]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c756d56d2dro

Seems a sensible move. :face:

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's something the UK left needs to detach itself from, this sort of immature posturing about people it doesn't like. Take the fucking money. You can think about your principles when the place isn't a decaying mess.

[Yevrah]

Indeed. It's not as if you have to behave sycophantically around him either if he is there, but to not invite the World's richest man to a top investment summit is just pathetic, made all the worse on the back of recent events. If you're going to compromise your moral outlook could you do it with Elon and hand the Taylor Swift tickets back please.

[Yevrah]

The more I think about it I'm actually angry. Telling average people they're going to have to take a lot of pain (when all of the average people know the very rich won't) and simultaneously publicly snubbing a man who could put billions upon billions into our economy is madness.

[Magic]

I think it's a great move. Fuck him and his money.

[Lofty]

Why are you two salivating over Musk, show me a project he's involved in that isn't a shit show. How's that hyperloop that was going to be far superior to rail coming along?

He's crying about Labour pulling the AI project he was balls deep in under Rishi's lot, Musk only 'invests' when the majority of the cash is put up by the state.

[Spikey M]

He's a retard, but he's a very powerful retard. In an ideal world, he'd be strapped to the front of one of his rockets and be fired at the sun, but this - quite obviously - is not an ideal world, so turning the nations nose up at him and his future projects, is unwise in a financial sense.

We seem to realise this when it comes to arms sales and being complicit in the murder of civilians across Palestine and Eastern Africa, so I'm not sure why we suddenly have a conscience when it comes to him. I guess being mates with Trump is somehow a worse crime than dead toddlers in Yemen:

Gotcha SVN :henn0rz:

[Yevrah]

Why are you two salivating over Musk, show me a project he's involved in that isn't a shit show.

I mean, you can't seriously believe this. You might think he's a twat, but that doesn't mean he's bad at business (which Spikey has covered).

[niko_cee]

Outwith Musk generally, why is the viewpoint he now seems to align with so utterly obsessed with paedophiles?

[Shindig]

He was matey with Epstein and Maxwell.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If the decadent elite (as opposed to the virile strongman elite) are all paedophiles then it justifies everything else that the easily-led already want to think about them. Might even be true to a limited degree.

[Lofty]

I mean, you can't seriously believe this. You might think he's a twat, but that doesn't mean he's bad at business (which Spikey has covered).

Tesla build quality is dogshit and their EVs are worse than the offerings from traditional car companies. Their output is worse, google about the bumpers falling off in the rain. He bought Twitter for a ludicrous amount, rebranded to something no-one except him cares about, reinstated all the stuff that is cancer to advertisers and said 'fuck them' then cried when they left his platform.

Aformentioned hyperloop being crap. Paypal he was twice ousted from the board for being shit and only when he fucked off was it sold for a profit.

He is a guy born into wealth who has landed on his feet, now cultivating his image as a genius to people who don't understand what he is talking about. He delegates the real work to cleverer subordinates and takes the credit (see taking everyone else's name off the Neuralink research).

I wouldn't trust him to wire a plug.

[Spikey M]

I firmly believe that the surplus of nonces amongst the elites is similar to the various rich fuckers dying climbing mountains or climbing into shitty submarines.

It tends to be risk takers that get rich and successful, and the thing with risk takers, is they have to take bigger and bigger risks that are more and more extreme to get the buzz they're chasing. Now, surround those same people with people that only ever say yes to them and it's a race to depravity and suicidal behaviour of one form or another.

[Magic]

It tends to be rich arseholes that spawn even richer arseholes, to clarify that for you.

Musk isn't a risk taker, nor is he a visionary. He's a cunt.

[Yevrah]

Tesla build quality is dogshit and their EVs are worse than the offerings from traditional car companies. Their output is worse, google about the bumpers falling off in the rain. He bought Twitter for a ludicrous amount, rebranded to something no-one except him cares about, reinstated all the stuff that is cancer to advertisers and said 'fuck them' then cried when they left his platform.

Aformentioned hyperloop being crap. Paypal he was twice ousted from the board for being shit and only when he fucked off was it sold for a profit.

He is a guy born into wealth who has landed on his feet, now cultivating his image as a genius to people who don't understand what he is talking about. He delegates the real work to cleverer subordinates and takes the credit (see taking everyone else's name off the Neuralink research).

I wouldn't trust him to wire a plug.

He's worth $228bn, he wasn't born into wealth of anything like that. And you don't need to trust him to wire a plug, he's overseeing/running businesses, not working on a production line.

As for him being a genius or not, it's irrelevant, he's worth $228bn dollars, which doesn't just happen through luck or hard work, despite what people may claim - There is clearly some very high form of talent there, which is obvious when one takes the politics/personality out of it and looks at it objectively.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Tesla build quality is dogshit and their EVs are worse than the offerings from traditional car companies. Their output is worse, google about the bumpers falling off in the rain. He bought Twitter for a ludicrous amount, rebranded to something no-one except him cares about, reinstated all the stuff that is cancer to advertisers and said 'fuck them' then cried when they left his platform.

Aformentioned hyperloop being crap. Paypal he was twice ousted from the board for being shit and only when he fucked off was it sold for a profit.

He is a guy born into wealth who has landed on his feet, now cultivating his image as a genius to people who don't understand what he is talking about. He delegates the real work to cleverer subordinates and takes the credit (see taking everyone else's name off the Neuralink research).

I wouldn't trust him to wire a plug.

None of this is at all important if he wants to chuck several million into some investment here.

[Lofty]

Yes Yev it's definitely not related to him manipulating unregulated crypto markets by posting Doge memes periodically.

[Spikey M]

He's dripping with money, the thicker he is the better, frankly. Fleece him.

[Yevrah]

He delegates the real work to cleverer subordinates

And to focus in on this bit (as I see this terrible take time and time again) that is literally a very valuable skill to possess as a leader and certainly not a stick to beat him with.

He takes the credit as he's the public face of his organisations and if the people involved perceived him to be unduly taking the credit then presumably they'd have left his organisations ages ago.

[Yevrah]

Yes Yev it's definitely not related to him manipulating unregulated crypto markets by posting Doge memes periodically.

Fuck, if only I'd realised sooner that he'd built all of his two hundred and twenty-eight billion dollar net worth from doing that.

[Spikey M]

The problem with Musk, is that he does say alot of retarded shit. HOWEVER, this seems to be the key to grifting the Right. As far back as George Bush, this was the case. The geezer made a reputation for himself being a decent politician, but he only broke through when he dialled up the accent and started deliberately mispronouncing words. I think the same is probably true of Trump. I highly doubt he's as stupid as he pretends to be. Over here, Boris Johnson obviously played the same part.

It's probably linked to the left being so aggressively academic. The right is now anti that and, here we are.

[Yevrah]

Indeed. Not a chance Musk is actually stupid and you can see as much when he isn't trolling for the lols, like when he eviscerated that BBC interviewer.

[randomlegend]

Indeed. Not a chance Musk is actually stupid and you can see as much when he isn't trolling for the lols, like when he eviscerated that BBC interviewer.

I mean if you read accounts from people who've worked for him he does sound like a genuine moron. His companies sound like they are entirely structured to placate him whilst allowing others to get on with the actual work. He seems to just flounce about demanding completely impossible things he doesn't understand whilst people try to pander to it without letting him destroy what they're doing.

Luck is a bell-curve. Someone has to be the person who fell on the far, far right of the curve. Musk seems to be that person.

[Magic]

He's worth $228bn, he wasn't born into wealth of anything like that. And you don't need to trust him to wire a plug, he's overseeing/running businesses, not working on a production line.

As for him being a genius or not, it's irrelevant, he's worth $228bn dollars, which doesn't just happen through luck or hard work, despite what people may claim - There is clearly some very high form of talent there, which is obvious when one takes the politics/personality out of it and looks at it objectively.

I'm not sure if that was tongue in cheek, but just in case it wasn't:

In February 2018, Musk made headlines when he referred to his wealth during Elon's teen years in an interview with Business Insider South Africa. Musk described having "so much money we couldn't even close our safe" and mentioned his emerald dealings. Snopes confirmed that Errol at some point owned "a stake in an emerald mine near Lake Tanganyika in Zambia".

[Yevrah]

I mean if you read accounts from people who've worked for him he does sound like a genuine moron. His companies sound like they are entirely structured to placate him whilst allowing others to get on with the actual work. He seems to just flounce about demanding completely impossible things he doesn't understand whilst people try to pander to it without letting him destroy what they're doing.

Luck is a bell-curve. Someone has to be the person who fell on the far, far right of the curve. Musk seems to be that person.

There will always be people who're out to knock you (particularly those who've left under a cloud) and it's good copy to read about his eccentricities (which he clearly has). I just really struggle to believe that his businesses work in spite of him, time and time again, if he's actually useless. I've seen enough shit leaders to know that it'll actively harm the business if they're that bad.

[Yevrah]

I'm not sure if that was tongue in cheek, but just in case it wasn't:

In February 2018, Musk made headlines when he referred to his wealth during Elon's teen years in an interview with Business Insider South Africa. Musk described having "so much money we couldn't even close our safe" and mentioned his emerald dealings. Snopes confirmed that Errol at some point owned "a stake in an emerald mine near Lake Tanganyika in Zambia".

I don't know if you and others are innumerate, but you understand the difference between $100m, which a lot of people have and $228bn, which only he has, right? One is 0.04% of the other.

[Pepe]

Criticizing his businesses and ignoring SpaceX, which ushered a new era of private space exploration is pretty lol. Also, I've been talking shit about Tesla for a long time, but without it, electric cars would be way behind where they currently are. No traditional company had any interest in them until Tesla started selling them at a decent rate.

Becoming the single wealthiest person in the world by sheer luck would be like breaking the 100m world record by luck.

[Yevrah]

Becoming the single wealthiest person in the world by sheer luck would be like breaking the 100m world record by luck.

A spot on analogy that.

[Pepe]

I don't know if you and others are innumerate, but you understand the difference between $100m, which a lot of people have and $228bn, which only he has, right? One is 0.04% of the other.

Nah mate, if random TTHer had inherited one million he would be even more successful.

[Magic]

I don't know if you and others are innumerate, but you understand the difference between $100m, which a lot of people have and $228bn, which only he has, right? One is 0.04% of the other.

You said he wasn't born in to wealth lol...

[Pepe]

There is wealth and wealth. Like saying someone who won a Nobel prize has no merit because their mother taught at the local community college.

[Yevrah]

You said he wasn't born in to wealth lol...

Innumerate and illiterate. Congratulations.

[Yevrah]

There is wealth and wealth

Indeed and is exactly what I said. I despair sometimes, I really do - I'm old now, it shouldn't be this easy.

[randomlegend]

A spot on analogy that.

Completely stupid analogy actually.

[Yevrah]

Completely stupid analogy actually.

Only if one doesn’t understand how much $228bn actually is. It’s obviously built up over a lifetime so this comparison needs that context but it’s more than the GDP of three quarters of the countries in the World.

[Shindig]

SpaceX is wild and Tesla's given the electric a visibility (and viability... ish) that otherwise wouldn't have happened. Part of that is down to business sense and his ability to get people onboard. Tesla especially feels like a market leader rather than a bandwagon jumper.

He is also names his kids stupid names, has a shit Elden Ring build and thinks an underground tunnel full of lithium-powered cars has no downsides.

EDIT: Also PayPal. I'm of the opinion his mate did most of the coding but Musk had to sell that and that's now part of the banking fabric.

[Magic]

There is wealth and wealth. Like saying someone who won a Nobel prize has no merit because their mother taught at the local community college.

Ok I'll add that $100,000,000 isn't wealth to my notes.

[Yevrah]

Ok I'll add that $100,000,000 isn't wealth to my notes.

I’m trying to understand here, so.. is the perspective that past a certain point all wealth is the same? If so, what’s that point?

[Magic]

I’m trying to understand here, so.. is the perspective that past a certain point all wealth is the same? If so, what’s that point?

You made it out like he's a self made man. He's not. He's got immense privilege and is a massive cunt. The two exact things you need to become an extremely rich, massive cunt.

[Yevrah]

You made it out like he's a self made man.

I absolutely did not, I said he didn’t come from wealth of anything like $228bn, which he didn’t.

[Kikó]

I think they should have invited him because responses like this proves he's a very normal human.

"I don’t think anyone should go to the UK when they’re releasing convicted pedophiles in order to imprison people for social media posts," Mr Musk claimed on X.

[Pepe]

Jimmy nailed it really. He might be whatever you want, but you should be trying to get him to toss some money your way. Not like all of Britain's allies and partners are vetted for being 'normal', are they?

[niko_cee]

Mostly the last part. It seems a bit petty and only then leads to whataboutery when the list of actual invitees is scrutinized, which wouldn't have happened had they not gone for this snub.

[randomlegend]

Only if one doesn’t understand how much $228bn actually is. It’s obviously built up over a lifetime so this comparison needs that context but it’s more than the GDP of three quarters of the countries in the World.

No, it just makes no sense.

You can make "good" investment decisions purely by luck. If a trillion people with zero knowledge or skill were all given a load of money and all asked to make a series of investment decisions, some would get all the decisions right and get extremely rich by chance.

You cannot run faster than your physical limit by chance.

[Spikey M]

That's some outrageous cope right there.

[niko_cee]

Marr, who was born in Glasgow, highlighted the signs at Edinburgh’s Haymarket train station as an example. Since 2010, it has had signs declaring it to be “Margadh an Fheoir”, which translates as “market of hay”.

He also attacked Scottish “exceptionalism”, describing it as “one of the most offensive loads of tripe in modern politics”.

The former BBC political editor criticised “the Scottish Nationalist view that if you’re Scottish, you’re a better person; because you’re Scottish you’re more innately liberal; because you’re Scottish you’re more progressive”.

Andrew Marr's coming for the Magics of the world.

[Yevrah]

The point is that it's just as impossible to win the 100m by luck as it is to accrue a net worth of $228bn by luck.

There's also a difference between being extremely rich and having a net worth of $228bn, which he hasn't made solely through investment decisions. He's not just investing, he's heavily involved in running things.

[randomlegend]

That's some outrageous cope right there.

It's actually just FACHTs.

[Spikey M]

Nah Yev, he just starts companies and then poof... instabillions, completely out of nowhere. Pure luck

[randomlegend]

The point is that it's just as impossible to win the 100m by luck as it is to accrue a net worth of $228bn by luck.



This is a stupid argument, but no, it isn't. One is literally impossible. The other is not literally impossible.

[Yevrah]

This is a stupid argument, but no, it isn't. One is literally impossible. The other is not literally impossible.

Agreed it's a dumb point to get stuck on. So given he isn't just an investor, do you genuinely think he has accrued his net worth through luck?

[Yevrah]

And who else in the World's rich list has relied on luck, either exclusively or heavily?

[Yevrah]

Nah Yev, he just starts companies and then poof... instabillions, completely out of nowhere. Pure luck

I do find discussing him fascinating as you can nearly always tell instantly as soon as you know someone's political leanings what they will think of Musk. If you're more left he's a lucky fucker who has done nothing to achieve his position, whereas if you're more right he's a genius who is worth listening to on every subject going. Both of which are stupid takes, but the left sided one more so.

[randomlegend]

If we're being sincere then I obviously have no idea.

[Pepe]

Giving credit to a rich/successful person for anything is akin to joining the KKK nowadays.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Here's the test: if Elon Musk wanted to donate £10 billion to the NHS (which admittedly would only fund it for 16 days, but let's run with it), and in return he wanted an A3 photo portrait of himself installed in every hospital wing in the country for those 16 days, would we do it?

[randomlegend]

The NHS managers would find a way to pay £10 billion for the A3 pictures.

[Pepe]

Tell him to shove his money up his arse and put a portrait of a minority nurse up instead.

[Yevrah]

Yeah, some of the things he says hurt my feelings. He can keep his money.

[Pepe]

The NHS managers would find a way to pay £10 billion for the A3 pictures.

One of these days one of those managers will get lucky and solve all of the NHS's issues by accident.

[Yevrah]

The NHS managers would find a way to pay £10 billion for the A3 pictures.

:D My first response was going to be yes, if he pays for the picture installs too.

[Kikó]

Musk isn't thick and probably is lucky. He clearly has some weird interconnection between all his endeavors and probably thinks he's the savior of the species on another planet. But definitely right now, his mind is completely pickled due to either Twitter brainrot or the ket.

[Pepe]

Definitely past his prime.

[Magic]

He never had the makings of a varsity athlete.

[Spikey M]

Musk isn't thick and probably is lucky. He clearly has some weird interconnection between all his endeavors and probably thinks he's the savior of the species on another planet. But definitely right now, his mind is completely pickled due to either Twitter brainrot or the ket.

Pretty much this, yeah. He was born the son of a millionair. So yes, he's lucky, there's no argument on that, but thick people don't take that lucky start and make themselves the richest man on earth.

Now, while he isn't thick, he does say some incredibly thick things. But then, they're the things his thick fans believe, so that's the brand.

He definitely gives off Evil Billionaire vibes rather than savior ones though.

[Manc]

Can't wait for him to fire the paedos to Mars.

[Spikey M]

Can't wait for him to fire the paedos to Mars.


https://youtu.be/_U-7L1tmBAo?si=OB7-7GcZLT-_t0K8

[Spikey M]

Crazy to think Keir Starmer personally flew him back and released him.

[Lewis]

Elonm Usk.

[Boydy]

The thing I find most offensive about Musk is how cringeworthy he is. Look at the fucking state of this:

1788434072701669837

[Lofty]

I had a nightmare last night that I went to a pub and they insisted on pouring 15% of the pint away before serving it, claiming it was a 'benefit'. First time proposed government policy has ever impacted my sleep, bravo Small Beer Kier.

[Spikey M]

1839011675246104962?t=7ULXti0QydVEEn2d6zwkrw&s=19

[igor_balis]

Musk is a weird one because my instinctive reaction to lefties claiming he's a talentless moron who has done nothing of value and got where he is out of pure luck is to roll my eyes, yet literally everything I see him do and hear him say is just absolutely preposterous and he's clearly such a fucking weirdo.

On balance I think he has been very lucky and owes a fair amount of his success to happenstance, and that he definitely is a total idiot in a lot of ways, but that he obviously has a lot of talent and is mostly a self-made bazillionaire. It's just that the latter isn't really a net positive for society as a whole, and I don't think we really need to look to him as some kinda thought leader. It's a bit like how I feel about Alan Sugar and Vince McMahon, yeah well done you've made loads of money but you're also a fucking nob head and most of your ideas are fucking stupid.

[Magic]

Can anyone name me a nice billionaire plzthx

[Shindig]

Richard Branson's probably alright.

[Kikó]

Bill Gates is the best.

[Magic]

When I say nice I mean human. Caring. Empathic. Kind.

[Manc]

Warren Buffet.

[Pepe]

It's just that the latter isn't really a net positive for society as a whole

I guess it depends on whether you think space exploration and electric vehicles are a "net positive" to society or not. There is also the whole satellite internet thing.

[Pepe]

Alternatively, let's say that president-queen Kamala 'Kamala' Harris's government seized all of his shares in SpaceX, Testa, Twitter, etc. sold them off, and used all of the money to do U S of A government things. Do you think we would be better off?

[Spikey M]

You were much more fun when you were a scumbag Magic.

[Bernanke]

Alternatively, let's say that president-queen Kamala 'Kamala' Harris's government seized all of his shares in SpaceX, Testa, Twitter, etc. sold them off, and used all of the money to do U S of A government things. Do you think we would be better off?

Sold them off to who? Another bazillionaire? Doesn't really change anything does it.

[Lewis]

Those people would presumably do worse jobs of it, which is why they don't own the space internet company to begin with.

[Kikó]

Alternatively, let's say that president-queen Kamala 'Kamala' Harris's government seized all of his shares in SpaceX, Testa, Twitter, etc. sold them off, and used all of the money to do U S of A government things. Do you think we would be better off?

But on the same token, Musk owned companies have benefited from those very same government subsidies. Both compliment each other to achieve certain breakthroughs (namely in space).

[Magic]

Austria. :facepalm:

[Boydy]

1840847028588335289

:lol:

[Yevrah]

Kamikwazi the budget and he's gone.

[Spikey M]

It's just so depressing. Where are all the leaders? I can't think of a single politician that I'd want to be PM. Just useless cunts as far as the eye can see.

[Shindig]

Stay the course, damn it.

[Luke Emia]

1840847028588335289

:lol:

People have very fucking short memories. Are they fucking goldfish?

[Spikey M]

People have very fucking short memories. Are they fucking goldfish?

They're just doing the same thing they did under the Tories. "This lot are shit, let's give the other lot a go". A nation of deeply stupid people.

I'd be interested to see the Reform UK figures.

[Luke Emia]

They're just doing the same thing they did under the Tories. "This lot are shit, let's give the other lot a go". A nation of deeply stupid people.

I'd be interested to see the Reform UK figures.

I was talking to my dad about this the other day and said to him as a country we probably just need Farage to win an election. Then everyone can see just how shit he is and how much of a chancer and maybe things can settle down a bit. Everything is seen through the lens of him calling everything suit for the past 20 years and making it seem that is easy to fix but never having to show how he would actually fucking fix it.

[Spikey M]

He's already started being alot more moderate with his language. He called mass deportations "impossible" the other day and said he doesn't really care about immigration as long as they integrate properly. I can't work out if he's doing it because he knows he needs to be more moderate to have a chance or because he knows he'll have no more luck stopping illegal immigration than anyone else has.

[randomlegend]

People have very fucking short memories. Are they fucking goldfish?

People generally are thick as shit and spend the majority of their democratic currency voting directly against their own interests because they are so easily manipulated. Blah blah I sound like a cunt, but it is so obviously true.

[Yevrah]

It's one poll gents. No chance Rishi would actually win if there was an election again tomorrow.

[Spikey M]

It's one poll gents. No chance Rishi would actually win if there was an election again tomorrow.

Oh I know. I also can't see Reform ever getting anywhere near power. The greater likelihood is that voter turnout will just continue to plummet to the point where no party can truly say they have a mandate to govern and even less will get done.

[Manc]

Who needs a government anyway? Top Ireland a great example.

[phonics]

1841591658842095718

Lol she definitely got caught by a colleague trying to brief Johnson

[Ben]

I believe her. She's never briefed the Tories in advance on anything before.

[niko_cee]

It does seem a rather extraordinary mistake to make.

[phonics]

My guess is she meant to BCC and CC'd and realised she was cooked.

[Yevrah]

Yep, that's absolutely what she's done.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I am not averse to a bit of shenanigans but surely you just whatsapp it to him separately. Very clumsy tradecraft to bcc him on the same email (I'm presuming it must be an email or how would they find out, he can't be in their slack group).

[Boydy]

1841737733976244619

Feels like a pretty good summary of things. The media needs to be binned along with our politicians.

[Ben]

Ashworth lost his seat. He's about as relevant as me.

[niko_cee]

He was going to be their Paul Boateng.

[Boydy]

Ashworth lost his seat. He's about as relevant as me.

That's the point. He's never off the fucking TV now. He'll probably get a peerage and be back in the cabinet in the not too distant future. In the meantime he's got his cushy job as head of Labour Together now.

[Boydy]

Even when you vote them out, you can't flush these turds.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There will always be a political-media blob of some sort. Someone has to be the conduit between high politics and the people, unless you want the people only to be fed lines directly from politicians on the terms of those politicians. A completely independent media would result in pretty much that happening, so the media have to have relationships with politicians to oil the wheels of the system (oil of course just one of many lubricants that eases things along). Everyone within the blob is acting rationally in their own interests, and the blob and how it behaves is the sum total of the convergence of those interests. To take away their right to do so you have to have an external controlling authority preventing them from doing so, and then you're not a democracy.

[Boydy]

Wanting journalists to actually hold politicians to account is anti-democratic now, right.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We all want journalists to hold politicians to account but that means, as a public, we have to sponsor the journalism, because it's only in our interest that that happens and not in the interest of the politicians. That means paying money for our news, which evidently people are not willing to do. This is what leaves you with the blob media being the only media. What has been the narrative surrounding BBC news (the only news we do all pay for) during Laura Kuennsberg's time? Huge pressure exerted on it by various political factions upset that they perceive the beeb not to be acting as clients for their favourites. That's what causes someone to fund GB News or the Telegraph or Novara or whatever. It used to be that people would fund public-interest news because they could make money selling it, but that's no longer the case.

Blob media is inevitable, and Jon Ashworths will always populate it, the problem for us as a public is that it is now a far larger percentage of all media than it used to be.

[Spikey M]

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced Baz is right and the only answer is just to stop paying attention to any of this shit. We're not going to change anything whether we want to or not, so why bother?

[Dquincy]

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced Baz is right and the only answer is just to stop paying attention to any of this shit. We're not going to change anything whether we want to or not, so why bother?

Exactly this. I stopped following it all about a year ago and it's been much nicer. Why bother worrying about something your have such little influence over.

[Lofty]

The other problem is publications like Private Eye exist but people don't care, too many words in small print, where's the tits and football scores. Never mind the wider issue of people not wanting to know things that go against their ingrained beliefs. There's a reason the reading age of a tabloid newspaper is 3.

[Shindig]

I think those people also want simple answers to complex questions. You could try to explain to them the inner workings of the CPS (or the justice system in general) but they'd prefer to hear that Keir Starmer was 100% responsible for Jimmy Saville and Al Fayed getting away with it.

[niko_cee]

Sue Gray resigning is a bit :cab:

Has she been shunted into a better paid position or something?

[Boydy]

She lost the factional struggle against Morgan McSweeney's lot.

[Lewis]

You just know these benders treat dripping to journalists like they're running IRA informers.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Such a bunch of small-time pygmies these days in both parties. SKS must be properly useless as well to allow this kind of student politics squabbling to dominate three months into power.

What's happened to the Establishment? Bring them back.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Genuinely astounded that the Tory MPs have managed to punt Cleverly from the leader race. He's likeable and genial which is about as much as they can hope to offer up against weirdo robot Starmer. Jenrick is dead behind the eyes and Badenoch is an ideologue and alienates half the electorate. Just complete idiocy.

[Magic]

If Jenrick's parents were common scummers how was he privately educated?

EDIT: Just reading about the Westferry approval...what a disgusting little cunt he is.

[niko_cee]

Jenrick must have so much dirt in his back catalogue it's going to be hilarious if he wins. Apparently a lawyer, went to Russia, then became an auctioneer, then up to his neck in all sorts of planning sleaze as an MP. A solid choice for the membership.

How did all the grown-ups-in-the-room Tugenhat moderates break to the two most extreme candidates? Are they just all complete idiots?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I suppose they could have been trying to lend their votes to Jenrick to try and oust Badenoch (who is the favourite to win with the members), while Jenrick voters might have responded by switching to Badenoch to try and oust Cleverly.

The idiot thesis probably more plausible.

[Magic]

It's not about that, it's about who can do the most favours for the richest people in the country. Moderates won't do that.

[niko_cee]

Cleverly got fewer votes than yesterday? :cab:

Yep, it's the idiot theory.

[Ben]

We're getting a Farage government in five years aren't we?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Nigel has a hard ceiling, too many people will just never vote for him even if the 20-25% who will are really enthusiastic. The only way he'll get 100+ seats is if immigration starts to properly dominate politics, like, people start seeing it as more important than the NHS, and that will need some fairly dramatic events I think.

[Spikey M]

He has the enthusiastic numbers, they're just spread out all over the country, which is useless in this system. He's going to need his own versions of Bradford and Luton, but full of gammons. Clacton isn't going to cut it.

[Lewis]

James Cleverly was the continuity Do Nothing and Suffer a Record Defeat candidate, so in all likelihood he would have done nothing and suffered another record defeat. That's why all the whammers liked him.

The more you see of Kemi Badenoch the worse she looks, so it's on Big Bob Jenrick to stop us turning into an Indian slum.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You'll never get a Corbyn or Badenoch type figure into number ten, the electorate will just never go for them ever vs a centrist dad candidate unless there's either a sudden and total collapse in living standards or a military coup. Worked for Pinochet I suppose.

[phonics]

I've kind of given up on actually knowing whats going on but looking at the current results, are the Tories voting to continue culture war bullshitters because they think it's how they win and get to do what they actually want or are they so broken brained by reading Daily Telegraph culture war bullshit that they actually believe the culture war is important.

[Lofty]

Wasn't project Indian slum kickstarted by big brain right wing culture war experts implementing Brexit by hook or by crook?

[Ben]

Quite. (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-india-sign-ground-breaking-partnership-migration-deal)

Although to be fair, it will allow us to go live in India whenever we want and it will stop illegal immigrants somehow.

:eyemouth:

[Shindig]

They're not illegal if we let them in, to be fair.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r82pjd8gpo

Very funny shit, all of this. Both the idiot minister and Starmer look completely pathetic at the same time. Round of applause.

[Lofty]

This is far worse than the Musk bollocks because it was palpable investment, you can't really Arthur Scargill it when you juat told everyone to clench their arseholes for massive cuts.

[Magic]

She was right.

[niko_cee]

Some people would probably prefer to have a job or a billion quid than be 'right'.

[niko_cee]

And whilst their practices were, at best, unscrupulous, to the extent that they were within the laws of the day, which I assume they were, then they were the responsibility of the government of the day, and, by extension, the people of the day. By all means call out and reform those laws, but there is nothing to be gained from being a person of protest when you are a minister of state.

[Spikey M]

She was right.

She was indeed, but it isn't her job to be right.

[Spikey M]

And whilst their practices were, at best, unscrupulous, to the extent that they were within the laws of the day, which I assume they were, then they were the responsibility of the government of the day, and, by extension, the people of the day. By all means call out and reform those laws, but there is nothing to be gained from being a person of protest when you are a minister of state.

And yes, "this". You can't throw moral judgement at a capitalist corporation for taking advantage of lax employment laws.

[igor_balis]

Nationalise all cruise ships

[igor_balis]

And yes, "this". You can't throw moral judgement at a capitalist corporation for taking advantage of lax employment laws.

Why not

[Spikey M]

Why not

The only thing that has changed since the days of Chimney Sweeps is employment law and human rights law. Left to their own devices, the rich will use and abuse the poor for profit. They're still doing it in Asia and Africa right now. It's pointless expecting morality from these people. If you want them to treat their employees with respect, you have to force them to.

[Magic]

But then they won't pay tax because they'll leave the country lol!

[Jimmy Floyd]

He said he thought of a working person as someone who “goes out and earns their living, usually paid in a sort of monthly cheque" and who can't "write a cheque to get out of difficulties".

Sir Keir Starmer's attempt to define 'working people'. Sounds like some 19th century aristocrat who's just found out about factories.

[niko_cee]

:D

The length they all go to to demostrate how their lies aren't actually lies is quite something.

[Yevrah]

Carry on at this rate and they'll be rivalling some of the Tory incompetence, which I genuinely thought was impossible.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Runcorn MP sparking out a bloke with his hands in his pockets, then whacking him several times on the deck is jolly good sport. Kinder, gentler politics etc.

[Shindig]

Budget related moaning. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyv8y68e25o)

Not much to day beyond people fearing what cuts might come their way.

[Manc]

Yasmin. :happycry:

[Lofty]

Allana apparently had three careers with good pension options but at 70 is paying £800 a month on her mortgage...

[niko_cee]

Should I be filling my car up today?

[Pepe]

Yasmin is a single mother of two? I am sure that Lewis will be shocked.

[Ben]

Should I be filling my car up today?

If it needs doing, sure, why not?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Should I be filling my car up today?

I have a date with the pump at lunchtime, 133.9, should see me through until early December when we start recycling the corpses to use as biofuel.

[Luke Emia]

Allana apparently had three careers with good pension options but at 70 is paying £800 a month on her mortgage...

Yeah I saw that. She’s obviously a helmet as is everyone in that article include the They/Them person.

[Alex]

Budget related moaning. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyv8y68e25o)

Not much to day beyond people fearing what cuts might come their way.

Nicole clearing the better part of three fucking grand a month (as a single person) in benefits and "freaking out over cuts".

I mean they always pick the freaks and/or thick bastards for these types of articles I suppose, but how tone deaf do you need to relay that kind of opinion to a national news outlet.

[niko_cee]

Luken Coleman works as a Level 3 business administration apprentice for a recruitment agency

This sounds to me like someone is gaming the fuck out of the apprentice system. What the fuck is a business administration apprentice? Also, what sort of name is Luken, spelled like that anyway?

[Boydy]

I thought that about that apprenticeship too. Basically getting an office admin for less than minimum wage. What fucking skill is he learning there?

And the stupid name.

[Spikey M]

My step-brother did an apprenticeship at a builders yard. He spent a year moving heavy shit by hand for £3 an hour, then they let him go and got a new one in. No qualification. No forklift licence. Nothing.

It's a cheap labour scam.

[Shindig]

His college day must be going through the most basic Excel shit.

[Kikó]

Yeah I saw that. She’s obviously a helmet as is everyone in that article include the They/Them person.

Every time.

1851381260750360618

[SvN]

:D

That last photo is superb.

[Pepe]

:lol:

[Spikey M]

:lol:

[Jimmy Floyd]

How on earth do they manage it? Of all the pensioners in the country...

[Magic]

Inclusivity.

[Luke Emia]

Every time.

1851381260750360618

I mean if that’s what they want to do then by all means do it. If it’s true they are then blowing a load of money every month though then it’s time to stop moaning.

[Spikey M]

How on earth do they manage it? Of all the pensioners in the country...

The same way they found a single black mum earning £150,000 per year.

Must. Challenge. Stereotypes. At all cost.

[Boydy]

Can't help but think with the full names on the article someone at the BBC was setting these people up to be found and ridiculed.

[Lewis]

Another lost decade, plus more deliberately destructive tax increases to go with it. But at least a woman delivered the budget so I'm happy.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've been reading around it this afternoon and it just reads like a huge raid on business so that we can keep on pouring untold amounts of money into the health system.

[Luke Emia]

Where I live it is quite rare for me to have a customer who will exceed the inheritance limit of £500,000. Especially if they are married, moving pensions into IHT is massive it is going to drag so many people in. Just looking at it logically £300,000 for 50% of a house and a £200,000 pension pot which isn't out of the question based on the fact that most people automatically get put into one now anyone is going to be a killer for people in the long-term. It's going to take a long time to hit but once it does it will be huge.

Why are they waiting two years to start taxing vapes as well? Probably for the same reasons they are waiting until next summer to ban the sale of disposable ones.

[niko_cee]

What's the unspent pension pot thing, is that doing away with 'the wishes' thing where those pensions were outside of the remit of IHT? That'll be absolutely massive and will torpedo a lot of people's plans in terms of ways around IHT.

[Ben]

Are they still banning flavoured vapes or has that been buried due to lobbying?

[Yevrah]

I can’t believe they left alone the amount you can put into a pension tax free each year, so I’m calling it a win for me personally.

[Spikey M]

I can’t believe they left alone the amount you can put into a pension tax free each year, so I’m calling it a win for me personally.

It's easier to tax the dead and this way the get all the Boomers that are already retired too.

[Shindig]

I've not got much to worry about from that. The minimum wage bump gives me a pay rise by default (I'm not on minimum wage currently but the hike blasts past my current pay) so I can look forward to that in April.

When it comes down to it, I've benefitted so much from a nation of people that are useless with their money. "People aren't saving enough? Lifetime ISAs. WE'LL GIVE THEM A FREE GRAND EVERY YEAR UNTIL THEY LEARN."

[Foe]

No impact on pension contribution, moderate rise in capital gains.

Fine by me, for now.

[Luke Emia]

No impact on pension contribution, moderate rise in capital gains.

Fine by me, for now.

Get it in ISA’s you can still invest in whatever you want but then it’s all outside that shit anyway.

[Foe]

I’m putting as much into my Isa as I can. Unfortunately, I’ve got more to play with than they’ll let me add into an isa. Will be maximising every year and eventually I’ll be immune to it as you say.

[Foe]

Bazbot vFoe is functioning.

[phonics]

I think the raising of the price on pints outside of a pub and dropping the price of drafts is such perfect neoliberalism.

The pint of a draft dropped 1p to the pub. However the overwhelming majority of the pubs are franchised out by a brewery which will not change their prices. So the only people who actually see any of that money are the 10 or so companies that own 95% of the pubs in the country anyway.

Meanwhile individual drinkers will pay far more than 1p per pint to not drink in a pub. Awesome.

[Pepe]

Wait are pint prices regulated? Lmao.

[phonics]

No but there’s tax on alcohol and draft vs cans have seperate tax.

[Ben]

What do you mean drinking outside the pub? As in restaurants, or at home?

I only ever drink in pubs. Restaurants too, but you're there for the food so you'll pay whatever for a pint.

[Giggles]

Sounds like it means on-sales vs off-sales.

[Spikey M]

What do you mean drinking outside the pub? As in restaurants, or at home?

I only ever drink in pubs. Restaurants too, but you're there for the food so you'll pay whatever for a pint.

Pub vs at home/at a a bus stop.

And Phonics is spot on. You aren't going to price alcoholics out of their alcoholism or, I guess, bring them into the pubs, by changing the prices.

The bloke is an absolute whopper, but Russell Brand nailed this years ago when asked about giving money to homeless people. They may indeed be heroin / crack addicts, but you aren't going to change anything by not giving them money. They will get the drugs either way. They'll find a way.

[Yevrah]

I might have missed the point of the above discussion, but the penny off beer duty has always been a business benefit rather than a consumer one.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Should make up nicely for their rates relief going from 75% to 40%.

The current end point for society is everyone drinks Brewdog alone in their homes 24/7.

[Spikey M]

I might have missed the point of the above discussion, but the penny off beer duty has always been a business benefit rather than a consumer one.

Oh definitely, but as the whooping and hollering of the MP's showed, it's not seen that way. They're trying to sell it as getting people back into pubs, but - even if the saving were passed on, and if it wasn't more than undone by the tax hikes - saving 1p a pint isn't going to stop people from drinking at home. £3.70 a pint or £2.00 for a 2 litre bottle of cider. you decide.

It's an utter shambles of a budget all round, really.

[Lofty]

Should make up nicely for their rates relief going from 75% to 40%.

The current end point for society is everyone drinks Brewdog alone in their homes 24/7.

Stop judging me.

[Boydy]

Oh definitely, but as the whooping and hollering of the MP's showed, it's not seen that way. They're trying to sell it as getting people back into pubs, but - even if the saving were passed on, and if it wasn't more than undone by the tax hikes - saving 1p a pint isn't going to stop people from drinking at home. £3.70 a pint or £2.00 for a 2 litre bottle of cider. you decide.

It's an utter shambles of a budget all round, really.

£3.70 a pint?

[Spikey M]

£3.70 a pint?

I don't know the cost of a pint of milk either. I'm basically Rishi Sunak.

[Ben]

£3.70 is pretty much bang on for my local.

[phonics]

I might have missed the point of the above discussion, but the penny off beer duty has always been a business benefit rather than a consumer one.

It doesn't help the actual pubs though, which is what it's supposed to be virtue signalling towards. It'll just give the massive brewery conglomerates an extra packet on the end of year accounts. It helps absolutely no-one that needs it.

[Yevrah]

Yeah, I assumed the whole thing was a meme type gig that every chancellor is obliged to continue the tradition of. A bit like quizmaster's making the answer to question 1 of any film round Marlon Brando.

[Yevrah]

£3.70 is pretty much bang on for my local.

Six quid here. It's insanity.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I have two Surrey pub meet-ups scheduled next week, planning a bank job at the weekend which if successful should allow me to keep both appointments.

[Boydy]

It's six quid most places in Belfast these days but that's probably because of our stupid licensing laws. No new licences are ever granted so to open a pub you have to pay big money for an existing licence.

[SvN]

It's around £5-6 by me, and increasing all of the time. I paid £9 for a big Peroni in a restaurant the other day.

[Spikey M]

It varies massively here. £3.70 is probably right in a 'spoons, more like a fiver in one of the village pubs. Last time I bought a round (a pint, a wine and a couple of J2O's for the kids it was about 18 quid I think.

Not the end of the world, but you could buy 4 cans, a bottle of Rose and pack of fruitshoots for the same in a shop, so it's no surprise they're killing pubs off at the rate they are.

[Pepe]

I love the idea of a government worried about its citizens not going to the pub enough.

[Magic]

It's around £5-6 by me, and increasing all of the time. I paid £9 for a big Peroni in a restaurant the other day.

Same here, apart from Spoons everywhere is at least £5 a pint and that's for the shite.

[phonics]

1851939818005004748

Top stuff.

[Spikey M]

:D what are they even complaining about?

Shiver harder grandma.

[Lofty]

I love the idea of a government worried about its citizens not going to the pub enough.

Service economy innit.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Oh no, they might need to sell one of their SIXTY but to let's.

[Spikey M]

Presumably they're mortgaged up to the eyeballs and actually own very little.

[Yevrah]

Yeah, they’re absolute retards.