General Election 2024: Gone on the 4th of July

[niko_cee]

Servicing debt on nearly £6m must be fun, I assume rents are fairly tragic in Colchester and they'll be getting walloped from all angles as modern-day landlords unless they're of the unscrupulous variety. The valuations will probably be Trumpian as well, so, all in all, lol.

[Lewis]

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Top stuff.

They cut out the lol bit, which is that them 'go[ing] back to full-time working' is them managing all of the properties because the agency they were using put the fees up.

[Pepe]

Going to the bank to cash sixty checks every month is a lot of work.

[Shindig]

Should make up nicely for their rates relief going from 75% to 40%.

The current end point for society is everyone drinks Brewdog alone in their homes 24/7.

Nah, I feel like part of the IPA wankery involves forcing it upon others. Typically in a bar setting. As for pint pricing, it's around £2.50-£4 here.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Badenoch wins Tory leadership. The right decision I think, Jenrick is dead behind the eyes and has a grifter's poise. Badenoch is possibly a lightweight but has more about her and probably more malleable to what may well become changing times.

[Magic]

She's a wretched cunt.

[Lewis]

The fact that all of the people who killed the party endorsed her tells you all you need to know, and that's without the fact that she appears to get very shirty very quickly under any sort of pressure (not unlike the Prime Minister). I was all for it in whenever it was they did their last contest, but further exposure suggests that she is actually crap. If she makes Honest Bob shadow the Home Office, and lets him devise their not turning the country into India policies, then it might work; but otherwise Nigel will be pissing himself.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm surprised you think that. She may well be crap (they all are) but the shirtiness can be weeded out with time and experience, and for the next 2-3 years the policies don't matter anyway. The key thing with Badenoch is she is going to be the only party leader with the combination of intellectual confidence (however thin in reality) and narrative authority to tell immigrant 'communities' where to shove it, which I think is going to be a far bigger rupture between the government and the opposition in the next ten years than is anything to do with economics, much of which is dictated to us anyway. What is 60 year old Nigel going to do, tell everyone that Kemi is a wet liberal and to vote for him and his completely empty words instead? I'm not sure that will wash.

Foreign policy might be a bit of a weakness, but she can presumably drag in some old soldiers (possibly literally) to do that.

[Lewis]

Nigel just needs to keep his fifteen per cent or whatever that prevents the Conservative Party from governing and him in national relevance. In the meantime, the Communities will just call her a racist like they did Priti Patel and Suella Braverman, which leaves you with a thin-skinned, foot-in-mouth merchant beholden to the pathetic twat wing of the party. Maybe Labour continues to implode and she wins anyway in 2029, but then you just have that in government instead.

[niko_cee]

I hadn't appreciated that all those IHT on pensions reforms are merely out for consultation rather than being some set in stone new law. So that's them never happening, at least not retrospectively.

[Luke Emia]

I hadn't appreciated that all those IHT on pensions reforms are merely out for consultation rather than being some set in stone new law. So that's them never happening, at least not retrospectively.

I was speaking to my development manager at Royal London today about this and he said one of the things which they have been told is that they need to pay HMRC the tax and it needs to be paid within 6 months which shows just how out of touch politicians are. Even for well planned out estates 6 months is quick to get the estate settled.

He said there will be push back from the providers on how some of what is being asked for can be implemented.

[niko_cee]

It isn't going to happen.

It's wildly unfair and massively moving the goal posts after the fact for some people. There will be all sorts of challenges if they try to push it through. It also has a dangerous public policy impact of deterring people from making provision for their own old age if the taxman can just come along in the future and go, nah, I'll have that. If you're going to pierce the veil of the trust structure then maybe start a bit higher in the wealth spectrum.

That said, most of this is a consequence of the 2015 reforms not being properly thought through in the same way that these haven't.

[Boydy]

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[Yevrah]

They're not all over educated though are they as a lot of them have done utterly pointless degrees.

[Ben]

The end of my loan is almost in sight. £300 a month. :sick:

[SvN]

The end of my loan is almost in sight. £300 a month. :sick:

I paid mine back this year, it was a great feeling to be free of it.

[niko_cee]

They're not all over educated though are they as a lot of them have done utterly pointless degrees.

Pointless for who though? Certainly not for the highly paid chancellors and provosts.

[Pepe]

Middle class on minimum wage? That doesn't sound right.

[Yevrah]

Ultimately the economy. For university to mean what it should we simply shouldn't have anywhere near 50% of the population going, or whatever % it currently is.

[Boydy]

Tell employers to stop requiring degrees for jobs that don't need them then and to do any sort of on the job training.

[Luke Emia]

I was chatting to a mate of mine about this the other week his daugher is 18 and doesn't know if she should go to University. My thoughts are if you want to be something and it needs a degree to do it and you will be well paid once qualified then do it. If you just don't know what to do and are going for the sake of it then don't do it. I have seen so many people down the years who pissed around with History and Geography degrees who have never done anything with the qualification and just piss around in lowly paid jobs never actually paying back their student loan.

[Lewis]

Between the student loan stuff and the various child benefit cliff edges there are some really perverse incentives in the British tax system (VAT registration seems another one), and yet everybody in a position to resolve them seems perfectly happy with them, presumably because they are not as obvious as headline rates.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If you're doing history and geography (or politics, as I did) you're not meant to 'do anything with' the qualification, it's an academic degree not a vocational one. A lot of people find this really hard to get their heads around, and I'm not saying that to diss them, it's just an observation.

[Pepe]

Not sure about the UK, but over here getting a degree, even in the shit disciplines and despite the lol costs, is worth it when it comes to earnings. I did see a lot of job ads when I was looking without degree requirements, which was nice to see, but then the experience they were asking for is basically impossible to get without a degree in the first place. I would never recommend anyone to skip university unless they are too stupid to finish. Delaying it for a few years would be a good idea for many though.

[Pepe]

Tell employers to stop requiring degrees for jobs that don't need them then and to do any sort of on the job training.

More testing less degree requirements and several month probationary people would be the way forward, but then people would complain about that too.

[Magic]

Who gives a shit about students? *Spits on floor*

[igor_balis]

God I wish I'd delayed going to university. At our high performing grammar school, it was basically assumed almost everyone would go, so my thinking as a spasticated 17 year old wasn't "should I go?" or "what is the purpose for me going?" and then working it out from there, it was more well I'm DEFINITELY going, and just sorta picking the subject I enjoyed doing most at A-level.

I went a social anxious mess, so didn't even do the fun making friends stuff, I spent 3 years getting up in the afternoon, playing football manager, then getting pissed with my weirdo mate I'd known from back home and his older brother and his mates who were also at the same university.

A year or two doing menial jobs, a bit of travelling, maybe I'm kidding myself, but i feel like I'd have been far more capable of picking something useful and getting something more worthwhile out of the whole experience.

I mean, I did complete the degree and get a 2.1 but obviously I've done nothing with it. I'm getting on, about to turn 33 (Christ), but maybe it isn't too late to do a vaguely vocational masters of some description. Probably not though.

[niko_cee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyjm6nrr0zo

I wonder what you find if you try to dig behind the facade of BROCKWELL GROUP BEXHILL LLP?

[SvN]

I'm glad I went, even if my degree was a waste of time. I grew up a lot and developed some work ethic.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I went too young, it was a disaster, went again at 21 and that did the trick. In classic 21st century man terms I therefore believe everyone should have the exact same experience as me and am calling now for a law to ban university until the age of 21, give people 3 years to go and get a job, then they can choose whether to carry on or whether to go back into full time education. Obviously the universities should be taking account of the contents of those 3-5 years when they consider applications. No timewasters.

[igor_balis]

I'm glad I went, even if my degree was a waste of time. I grew up a lot and developed some work ethic.

Lol, I wish it was the same for me, if anything it did the opposite - I learned pretty early on that my course was dead easy, my peers were thicker than my classmates were at school, so it just enabled my lazy tendancies.

I didn't start a single essay more than 48 hours before it was due, and I think I averaged about 20% attendance over the 3 years, including not going to a single lecture or seminar in my second semester of year 1, so didn't see any of my classmates from December 2010 until September 2011, except exams. Sounds like I'm showing off, but it was absolutely horrendous. I think I had a bit of a mental breakdown really. Part of me thinks getting found out, failing first year and getting kicked out would have done me good in the long run.

[-james-]

Yeah I scraped through, don't think I did much growing up. There were people on my course who I remember thinking "wow you really have your shit together" during first year, and they were generally the ones that lived at home and/or had already had jobs with responsibility, and were the ones that ended up doing well. Most of the people who were wasters at the start (me) were also wasters at the end.

In hindsight I cringe, but considering who I was before uni it was never really going to go any differently. Nearly all 16-20 year olds are so very childish that I think it's a bit of a dead loss projecting your 32 your old self backwards.

[SvN]

Lol, I wish it was the same for me, if anything it did the opposite - I learned pretty early on that my course was dead easy, my peers were thicker than my classmates were at school, so it just enabled my lazy tendancies.

I didn't start a single essay more than 48 hours before it was due, and I think I averaged about 20% attendance over the 3 years, including not going to a single lecture or seminar in my second semester of year 1, so didn't see any of my classmates from December 2010 until September 2011, except exams. Sounds like I'm showing off, but it was absolutely horrendous. I think I had a bit of a mental breakdown really. Part of me thinks getting found out, failing first year and getting kicked out would have done me good in the long run.

So funnily enough, the growing up and work ethic were completely independant of my course, of which I did the bare minimum. It was the job working in a pub kitchen that I needed to survive that actually provided me with the most benefit.

My 5 years at uni looked like this:


First Year: Attempted a Physics degree, but basically did fuck all, pretty much gave up on lectures after a couple of months. Still attended the labs and did the bear minimum. Decided to switch courses before I had chance to fail my exams.
Started a new course in Computer Engineering. Told myself I was going to do things right this year, but found the course ridiculously easy and stopped attending any lectures or classes after a few weeks. Finally went back in about February and realised they'd moved past the easy stuff and I now had no clue about anything, so stopped attending again. Revised/learned like a lunatic for exams and passed 90 credits, 10 short of passing.
Told some sob story and they allowed me to re-take the 30 credits part time. So while most of my friends were in their final year, I was doing about 5 hours per week. But my reduced timetable meant I had hardly any student loan, so I had to work for a living (properly) for the first time in my life. Got a job working as a "chef" in a pub, worked my arse off all year and genuinely enjoyed it, and made a lot of friends. Passed the 30 credits and finally moved onto second year.
Worked quite hard most of the year while still working 25-30 hours per week because my parents couldn't afford to subsidise my student loan anymore. Fair enough, given I was on my fourth year at Uni after starting a 3 year course. Managed to get around 65% overall, which wasn't bad as the course was actually quite tricky, especially the electrical engineering parts.
Basically got bored, motivation to do well at Uni took a hit after my girlfriend (now wife) moved in with me. Managed to get a 2:2 in the end.


Uni allowed me to come out of my shell a lot, make proper friends, meet girls and understand what it really meant to work for a living. I think there's a realistic chance I'd be a 38 year old virgin if I hadn't gone.

Also - we had no internet access in my first year in halls. Hated it at the time, but it did wonders for me. I would've been camped in my room playing CounterStrike all day/night.

[niko_cee]

Given he's obviously an intelligent bloke, and he very much knew the question would be coming, I would have thought old Jeremy Clarkson ought to have had a better answer to his own words being put to him on the subject of farms and inheritance tax than saying "typical BBC nonsense" or whatever it was. Yeah, classic BBC, asking people to comment on their own words which have been published nationally and pertain to the matter at hand. Wokerati bullshit!

I'm very much enjoying all the ire this seems to have drawn. Not sure how the politics of it all play out in terms of whether it is worth doing for Labour, but it is quite funny.

The general government line now being, well, you can get around it anyway if you structure things correctly seems like more of an argument against the entire concept of inheritance tax.

What the country really needs is proper reform of laws on the taxation of land.

[Boydy]

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Good thread here. He'll probably be losing the whip soon.

[Lewis]

I feel like the only reason this Rachel Reeves job history stuff isn't gaining a massive amount of traction is because it would open the floodgates.

[niko_cee]

No one likes a slippery slope.

Problem Starmer seems to have, other than very evidently being a careerist with no real political convictions, is that his comms people are absolute numpties and seem to think that putting this sort of stuff out is in any way a good idea. It reads like something a hostage would be forced to say.

[Shindig]

Even something as simple as a Diwali get-together got shambolically handled. A quick google would send them in the right direction instead of a beer and beef buffet.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Starmer's already fighting the last war, the ground has shifted from under him incredibly quickly. Starting to think a huge Reform surge could happen, frankly even if Nigel just locks himself in a fridge for the next year.

[Spikey M]

I'm all for this (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp35r0v7q95o), but I'm pretty sure the Tories proposed basically the same thing a couple of years back and Labour were OUTRAGED at the idea.

I'm also not sure why it's restricted to just young people. I hear "I can't work, I have kids" atleast twice a week and I'm yet to have a good response to "can't you work while they're at school?"

[phonics]

The Tory one was mandatory national service unless you paid a fee to get out of it. This is you have to do these things if you haven’t found work to receive the benefits.

I’ve long said the benefits system is fucked in this country. The system I grew up under made so much more sense. Unemployment was after 2 years of contributions you would receive 75% of your salary for 18 months. If you’re still unable to find work after said period you can take a job under the government doing say gardening, paving, road cleaning, binman. Day to day looking after the city stuff for a living wage and enroll in free courses/apprenticeships or you could receive nothing. It’s your choice.

[Lewis]

The more obvious thing would be to remove the incentives for people not to work, but that would mean tackling the recent explosion in self-diagnosed shite, gigantic labour surplus, etc. Much easier to force 'young people' to work for their benefits, which companies will be all too happy to abuse, like when they were offering 'training' in stacking shelves.

[Spikey M]

The Tory one was mandatory national service unless you paid a fee to get out of it. This is you have to do these things if you haven’t found work to receive the benefits.

I’ve long said the benefits system is fucked in this country. The system I grew up under made so much more sense. Unemployment was after 2 years of contributions you would receive 75% of your salary for 18 months. If you’re still unable to find work after said period you can take a job under the government doing say gardening, paving, road cleaning, binman. Day to day looking after the city stuff for a living wage and enroll in free courses/apprenticeships or you could receive nothing. It’s your choice.

Nah, not the National Service one. That was just a last minute attempt to win back the pensioners, who seem to want young people to be as miserable as possible.

I can't remember the details of the Tory one, but Labour essentially just said "THEY'RE ALL QUADRASPAZZED ON A MENTAL HEALTH-GLUG YOU MONSTERS!" and then, like everything the Tories tried, nothing at all happened. Usually for the best, but not in this case.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The more obvious thing would be to remove the incentives for people not to work, but that would mean tackling the recent explosion in self-diagnosed shite, gigantic labour surplus, etc. Much easier to force 'young people' to work for their benefits, which companies will be all too happy to abuse, like when they were offering 'training' in stacking shelves.

Recently I've started seeing all the policymaking in this area, and other areas, by both parties, as a conscious attempt to suppress wages at pretty much any cost. I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than that, but the world makes a lot more sense viewed through that lens.

[Spikey M]

The more obvious thing would be to remove the incentives for people not to work, but that would mean tackling the recent explosion in self-diagnosed shite, gigantic labour surplus, etc. Much easier to force 'young people' to work for their benefits, which companies will be all too happy to abuse, like when they were offering 'training' in stacking shelves.

Honestly, that's a non-starter. This is a cultural thing, to the extent that we might need to add Benefits-class to the nations class system.

Children of workers grow up to work. Even when it's hard, they juggle it. They find childcare. They struggle through a bad shoulder, etc.

The children of benefit claimants grow up to be benefit claimants. Work is something other people do. It's an abstract idea, it's not something their people do. I've seen that moment if realisation in too many people's eyes.

"I'm just really struggling financially here..."
are you trying to find work?
".........."

It hasn't even occurred to them as an option. They'll beg, pawn things, go to food banks, cool. But not look for work until the idea is introduced to them.

Now, on the other hand most benefit claimants already DO work and they just get benefits to top their criminally low wages. That needs looking at too. Nobody working fulltime should be earning so little that they qualify for Universal Credit.

[phonics]

My short time unemployed in the uk was eye opening in the sense that it was clear neither end of the system worked. The only way to access the job centre was to claim benefits and then the job centres aim was not to find you work but to stop you claiming benefits asap.

I went in there with 15 years of experience in a field where I’d worked for Kensington palace, the UN, the WHO, two international corporations and the only two jobs I was offered the entire time was Insurance Salesman and a Prison Officer. After a few months I was told to take one of those or be sanctioned.

I don’t know when it happened as it wasn’t like that when I was looking for work in university in 2008 but I presume they merged benefits and the dwp at some point and it broke the whole system.

[Lewis]

By all means progressively squeeze the benefits as a lifestyle people, but most people are either looking for work or have been allowed to not look for work, and could be incentivised back into it if full-time employment offered better prospects than working ninety minutes away for fuck all or sharing a bedroom with five Indians. When it doesn't, and you can claim an extra wodge for having Mental Health, why bother?

[phonics]

By all means progressively squeeze the benefits as a lifestyle people, but most people are either looking for work or have been allowed to not look for work, and could be incentivised back into it if full-time employment offered better prospects than working ninety minutes away for fuck all or sharing a bedroom with five Indians. When it doesn't, and you can claim an extra wodge for having Mental Health, why bother?

Great, so let's raise the wage you have to pay people so that it incentivises it so they're not competing with people who are trying to share a bedroom with 5 indians or send money back to Poland/Phillipines/Nigeria. Ah wait if we do that you'll complain about inflation.

[Lewis]

The foreigners wouldn't be here, and any inflationary pressures would be more than levelled out by also not having to compete with them for housing. Easy. I could solve that and Ukraine by half-nine as well and take the rest of the Parliament off.

[Shindig]

I don’t know when it happened as it wasn’t like that when I was looking for work in university in 2008 but I presume they merged benefits and the dwp at some point and it broke the whole system.

From memory, it was mainly filling in your job search every fortnight and showing it to some twat behind a desk. If they don't like the look of it (you could just make shit up, to be honest), then they started looking at sanctions or whatever. I never got anywhere near that. Six months without work wound you up on a New Deal placement which ultimately meant "You're not a jobseeker now. You're in training." Just moving you from one bucket to another, basically. Not that I saw that 13 weeks stint as bad. You wind up either sitting in a room all day looking for jobs or the recruitment agency in charge grabs you an unpaid job placement.

From my recollection, the two placements I got were as follows:

A computer store - Ran by a complete shitehawk that really loved the free labour. Me and two other lads were upstairs all day trying to cobble together PC's from whatever used stock was there.
Charity shop - Spent most of the time sorting through donation bags looking for good stuff to put on the racks. Not much else to it but some of the people I worked with were definitely incapable of anything else.

For what it's worth, the young faces (me included) seemed more keen to get into work. The older ones were either clearly not fussed or were pigeonholed into one industry that was never going to have them back.

[phonics]

The foreigners wouldn't be here, and any inflationary pressures would be more than levelled out by also not having to compete with them for housing. Easy. I could solve that and Ukraine by half-nine as well and take the rest of the Parliament off.

So your solution is to keep everyone so poor that they're equivalent economically to a 5 to a bedroom Indian? Thats your ideal British society?

[Lewis]

No? Wages would rise owing to a significantly reduced labour pool (like they briefly did in 2020 before the government moved to squash it), and external costs would fall for the same reasons (housing demand, taxes, etc.). Everybody wins, except people who think that condemning Indians to warehouse serfdom is somehow the compassionate and sensible thing to do.

[Gray Fox]

My short time unemployed in the uk was eye opening in the sense that it was clear neither end of the system worked. The only way to access the job centre was to claim benefits and then the job centres aim was not to find you work but to stop you claiming benefits asap.

Thankfully haven't needed the place in well over 10 years, but can attest to this.

In one of my later meetings, while waiting in the security guarded(lol) waiting area, I was close enough to hear the guy before me talking to his "advisor." At the time they'd not long switched it from bringing your actual job search book, to doing it all online. You could write any old shite in the book and often you'd see people stood outside the office and sometimes even in the waiting area, scribbling stuff in there to get the nod from their advisor. It was almost impossible for them to check.

The online system time/datestamped everything you did, so no more of that. It also allowed them to send you a "matched vacancy" in-between appointments. If you get one of those it's a vacancy they deem that you must apply for. If you don't do so, immediate sanction and they wont see you for 26 weeks+. I got given one once for a place that was a near hour double bus ride from. They put me straight through to interview, which again is mandatory. I went and the guy explained that there will be a requirement for me to be there for 6am some days. The bus doesn't start running til closer to 7am, so I told him this wasn't possible. He then wondered why I was wasting his time and we ended the interview there. Cut the the job centre hauling me in demanding to know why I made myself unavailable for said job.
In your commitments you agree you will travel for x time each way to enable you to expand your job search, I think at the time it was 90 or 120 mins each way. I only avoided sanctions because he worked it out in front of me that walking there would have taken me a couple of minutes over the time. Had Google maps showed a few minutes fewer, I'd have been cut off.

Anyway, back to the other guy. He was your older Uncle who is useless with technology. He'd ask you over to change a HDMI cable over because he wouldn't know what hes doing. That type. He tried to start his meeting by explaining he had no idea how to fill out his log book on the site but he'd brought things with him. She cut him off telling him she wasn't going to accept that, because only things on the online log book can now be considered and he must have already been shown how to use it. He had a stack of papers with him that she ignored and he asked her to help him fill out an online application for something he had found to which she gave the answer "I'm not here to help you find a job. I'm here to decide if you have done enough to get your payment on this visit."

Also heard a girl before me be told that she must choose between her uni course(whatever it was, she was in a 3rd year of uni) and signing on, because making herself unavailable due to said course broke her work agreement and they wouldn't see her again.

It always felt like you were talking to people who fully believed everything the Daily Mail would write about people on benefits.

[phonics]

No? Wages would rise owing to a significantly reduced labour pool (like they briefly did in 2020 before the government moved to squash it), and external costs would fall for the same reasons (housing demand, taxes, etc.). Everybody wins, except people who think that condemning Indians to warehouse serfdom is somehow the compassionate and sensible thing to do.

This is fantasy land. Companies would just lower production rate leading to less need for people in service roles 50 years after your idol offshored us doing anything useful which would lead to mass unemployment. We’d become Ireland/Portugal with the added negative that we’re incapable of learning a foreign language so we’d be shitty emigrants.

Unemployment is the lowest it’s been in 50 years and the worlds still shit. If you remove 5 people from a bedroom they’re 1) not going to pay 2 strapping Brits the minimum wage + what those 5 lads were earning because 2) those 2 patriots won’t be able to produce as much as the 5 Indian lads.

It just doesn’t work.

Ya bird made globalism happen, it’s too large to fight. The core issue is that we spent the past 15 years of money being free doing absolutely nothing to invest in the country’s growth. We make nothing, our water, our power, our transport even our post office is owned by foreign companies that have no investment in making the country work only to skim profit off the top.

The only thing we had going for us was global finance to skim off and your lot fucked that too in the name of patriotism.

Sanjay isn’t the problem. He’s a symptom.

[Spikey M]

.

Unemployment is the lowest it’s been in 50 years

FAKE NEWS! Or, rather, not really. All they've done is make one full time job, four part time jobs. Which is why we're stuck with record low unemployment AND record high benefit payments at the same time.

[Ben]

I’ve long said the benefits system is fucked in this country. The system I grew up under made so much more sense. Unemployment was after 2 years of contributions you would receive 75% of your salary for 18 months. If you’re still unable to find work after said period you can take a job under the government doing say gardening, paving, road cleaning, binman. Day to day looking after the city stuff for a living wage and enroll in free courses/apprenticeships or you could receive nothing. It’s your choice.

This is the way in Austria too. Seems great on the surface but their populations are much more modest so I'm not sure how well it could work here?

[Lofty]

Yes the new Labour idea sounds suspiciously like the widely decried Tory scheme where Poundstretcher lay you off then you sign on so you can go and work at Poundstretcher on a benefit placement, costing them nothing.

There is definitely ingrained dependency culture that can become generational, the problem is as stated for every person reckoning they cant work when they definitely can, there's another person wanting to work being treated as a scumbag by the system. Add in the figures have been on the wonk since Blair decided everyone should have a degree to mask the true figure and cause the shit show we see now, it's a mess.

Barrow is an interesting case study, the shipyard is recruiting more heavily than ever, paying massive wages in all areas to the point they've had to agree to stop employing people from the local police, fire, NHS and schools due to people thinking 'fuck this I'll just get £20 an hour to push a mop bucket round instead' and yet, despite all this investment and influx of high salary opportunity, the town is more deprived than ever and has a huge divide between the high flying defence careers and the down and outs claiming benefits until the grave.

[Ben]

Stealing ideas from the other team isn't anything new.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/tax/news/how-jeremy-corbyns-hard-left-high-tax-manifesto-delivered/

[Jimmy Floyd]

Which is as it should be, the whole point of an opposition being to propose alternatives to what the government are doing.

[Lewis]

This is fantasy land. Companies would just lower production rate leading to less need for people in service roles 50 years after your idol offshored us doing anything useful which would lead to mass unemployment. We’d become Ireland/Portugal with the added negative that we’re incapable of learning a foreign language so we’d be shitty emigrants.

Unemployment is the lowest it’s been in 50 years and the worlds still shit. If you remove 5 people from a bedroom they’re 1) not going to pay 2 strapping Brits the minimum wage + what those 5 lads were earning because 2) those 2 patriots won’t be able to produce as much as the 5 Indian lads.

It just doesn’t work.

Ya bird made globalism happen, it’s too large to fight. The core issue is that we spent the past 15 years of money being free doing absolutely nothing to invest in the country’s growth. We make nothing, our water, our power, our transport even our post office is owned by foreign companies that have no investment in making the country work only to skim profit off the top.

The only thing we had going for us was global finance to skim off and your lot fucked that too in the name of patriotism.

Sanjay isn’t the problem. He’s a symptom.

This is a very bizarre idea of incentives and outputs. If a company can only (not sure why it would only) hire two natives instead of five Indians, investment can also be made into productivity saving measures such as new equipment, training, etc. This country has fewer automatic car washes than it did when we were at primary school. Why? Have machines become more expensive and less reliable since? Clearly not, but labour has become significantly cheaper and more available, so why bother competing with illegals in an old petrol station? The same goes for most other low-skilled occupations. Fifty foreigners in a warehouse or fewer people with some automated assistance. This is literally why we have a productivity crisis.

[Pepe]

Recently I've started seeing all the policymaking in this area, and other areas, by both parties, as a conscious attempt to suppress wages at pretty much any cost. I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than that, but the world makes a lot more sense viewed through that lens.

I still need an explanation of what the advantages of shit wages are, because it does not make much sense to me.

[phonics]

Because CEO pay is based on growth not output.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I still need an explanation of what the advantages of shit wages are, because it does not make much sense to me.

Seen from the executive level of a large business, they are many and varied. Politicians are scared of those businesses leaving the country. I can't imagine this is an issue in the US.

[Spikey M]

And considering pretty much everything is foreign owned now, it would be very easy in many cases and has already been done in others.

[phonics]

1861047879030157543

This level of scrutiny is pretty amazing considering the last 15 years.

[Yevrah]

That must be the biggest non-story of all non-stories. Jesus wept.

[Shindig]

That's work related, I guess. :D

[Spikey M]

I bet they've bought the Foreign Secretary a globe n'all. Devious bastards.

[Pepe]

If the goal is keeping businesses, surely lowering their taxes and just general deregulation is more effective than purposely 'depressing wages'. Businesses want to sell stuff, and people need money to buy said stuff. They do not benefit from a poor population.

[Pepe]

This country has fewer automatic car washes than it did when we were at primary school. Why? Have machines become more expensive and less reliable since? Clearly not, but labour has become significantly cheaper and more available, so why bother competing with illegals in an old petrol station?

I would love to have some illegals to wash my car for cheap nearby. The automatic ones are not good enough.

[Spikey M]

If the goal is keeping businesses, surely lowering their taxes and just general deregulation is more effective than purposely 'depressing wages'. Businesses want to sell stuff, and people need money to buy said stuff. They do not benefit from a poor population.

A result of the mass brain drain in our political establishment, unfortunately. Most of them were just too thick to get a job in Finance.

[Magic]

If the goal is keeping businesses, surely lowering their taxes and just general deregulation is more effective than purposely 'depressing wages'. Businesses want to sell stuff, and people need money to buy said stuff. They do not benefit from a poor population.

To me it looks like Uber rich buying from Uber rich. For example, AI.

[Pepe]

Don't get me wrong, I am sure that whatever they are doing is indeed keeping wages low, but I doubt that is their purpose. They are just too shit to actually achieve their goals, whatever those may be (if they have any beyond keeping their jobs).

[Pepe]

To me it looks like Uber rich buying from Uber rich. For example, AI.

Didn't know the big AI companies were British.

[Magic]

Didn't know the big AI companies were British.

I never said they were. However look at our data centre plans. This isn't a consumer or even B2B market.

The labour that is left over will be so surplus the wages will be basically slavery.

[niko_cee]

What? (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy4q24ynp3o)

[Jimmy Floyd]

If you've been following his recent tik tok exploits then a shot at the festive charts is small cringe beer.

[Lofty]

He'd have more luck if it was just him getting kicked in the balls live on TikTok every day.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

By Ed Balls.

[Manc]

Will his son be providing vocals?

[niko_cee]

In all this 'stolen' phone business, surely the least plausible part of the whole story is the police actually investigating the loss of any form of property and then launching some sort of crack operation to look into the reactivation of an allegedly stolen phone. I'm absolutely not having that that actually happens.

[niko_cee]

See she's resigned now, seemingly citing some of the worst legal advice ever given as a factor. There must be more to it than is in the public domain. She probably made the whole thing up and someone has the kompromat to prove it. Looking at her you wouldn't think she'd be a grade A moron, oh wait.

[Gray Fox]

In all this 'stolen' phone business, surely the least plausible part of the whole story is the police actually investigating the loss of any form of property and then launching some sort of crack operation to look into the reactivation of an allegedly stolen phone. I'm absolutely not having that that actually happens.

As lol as the whole thing is, this is what sticks out to me.

Why have they gone after her over the cost of a phone like that? I would have thought the cost of gathering the evidence and taking her to court, would be far more than telling her they can see shes turned her phone back on and to stop taking the piss.

[niko_cee]

I see the euthanise the disabled bill has passed, excellent, fire up the wheelchair accessible gas chambers.

Going off some of the reaction that seems to be what some of the anti-camp seem to think anyway.

Quite funny that something that could be seen as a defining piece of legislation of this parliament might be a private member's bill. Does that make the government look bad?

[Shindig]

I wonder how they'll play that when it comes to Power of Attorneys?

[Magic]

I should retrain to be a lawyer.

[Spikey M]

I found the debate fairly interesting. I had to watch my mum die a horrific death, during which she often didn't know who I - or indeed she - was, had to have her lungs drained regularly and often sobbed that you "wouldn't put a dog through this". I am fully supportive of the outcome and I think it's been a long time coming. However, it has to be acknowledged that if this had happened 5 years ago, Captain Tom's cunt daughter would have been rubbing her hands together and there are an awful lot of scummers out there just waiting for their boomer inlaws to die, so the devil will be in the detail.

[Giggles]

Homeless crisis solution: done. Plenty more room for muzzers now.

[Magic]

Homeless crisis solution: done. Plenty more room for muzzers now.

Generally speaking I have absolutely no issue with homeless people. There's far more deserving members of society that I'd put way above them.

[Giggles]

Generally speaking I have absolutely no issue with homeless people. There's far more deserving members of society that I'd put way above them.
Who? Someone that arrived in after coming from a country they could already have stayed in? Massively deserving.

Don't tell them down the students union that I said that before your bra burning.

[niko_cee]

I found the debate fairly interesting. I had to watch my mum die a horrific death, during which she often didn't know who I - or indeed she - was, had to have her lungs drained regularly and often sobbed that you "wouldn't put a dog through this". I am fully supportive of the outcome and I think it's been a long time coming. However, it has to be acknowledged that if this had happened 5 years ago, Captain Tom's cunt daughter would have been rubbing her hands together and there are an awful lot of scummers out there just waiting for their boomer inlaws to die, so the devil will be in the detail.

In this scenario would they have offed him before he became a covid sensation, thus denying themselves the ability to profit from said stardom?

An interesting moral quandary.

I don't know the details of whatever is being proposed particularly, but I don't get the impression that agency is being given to third parties, more like a system is being implemented for when you get to the everyone knows it's time stage ["make them comfortable"], and it is just a waiting game, you have the opportunity to forego that misery by agreement in advance.

[Lewis]

I am all for it in principle, but the safeguards sound a bit flimsy, and you would put your own life on their being a massive NHS scandal to come out of it. The various shit reasons I have seen various MPs giving for supporting it hardly fills you with confidence that they would take any issues seriously as well.

[Manc]

Less people > more people. Simple.

[niko_cee]

If we put the ability of the NHS to somehow fuck it up at the top of the don't do that priority list for deciding things then we wouldn't have any healthcare at all.

[Magic]

Who? Someone that arrived in after coming from a country they could already have stayed in? Massively deserving.

Don't tell them down the students union that I said that before your bra burning.

The Irish, for a start.

[Giggles]

The Irish, for a start.

That's more like it.

[Boydy]

1863147887242215935

[Jimmy Floyd]

I saw some leaks from 'friends of Tony Blair' or something slating the Starmer regime. They really aren't doing well at all given that their entire pitch was competence.

[phonics]

'Middle Class Women Of A Certain Age' was funny.

Wrong thread but maybe it still applies.

[Giggles]

Wasn't a great result overall, but looking very much like the Greens have been as good as wiped out here :drool:

[Luke Emia]

Ok, so this Labour stuff above I'm sure if we looked into the last parliament and the current one a lot of the MP's on all sides would be doing it. It doesn't look great but she hasn't broken any rules. If you don't like the rules then don't have them in the fucking first place. Seems like at the minute the Mail & Express are just throwing as much shit at the wall as possible and seeing what sticks.

Obviously doesn't mean that Labour haven't been far more fucking useless than was hoped for. They talked about competence which seemed to be Rishi's pitch as well from what I remember and it's not as bad as the two spastics who were in charge before but their communication since they entered power has been fucking useless.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I see Starmer has now banned advertising porridge oats, among other things.

[Boydy]

1864675504126677369

Lol, lmao.

[Magic]

Centre right is absolutely toxic.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The mystery is how con are so high. Maybe Kemi Badenoch is Cutting Through [/lol]

[Lewis]

If Reform are consistently above them in the polls two years from now 'Kemi' will get the Iain Duncan Smith treatment. She has been pathetic in all of her House of Commons appearances up to now, and MPs think that they actually matter enough to have taken notice.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Unless they self-destruct, I'd have thought Reform will be above everyone in the polls two years from now.

[niko_cee]

Feels like it's been a bad month for presidential political systems, so at least we don't have to worry about President Nigel.

[Lewis]

Rupert Lowe appears to be the only Reform MP actually doing any work. They have kept the domestic abuser off the air, Nigel Farage just talks shit, and Richard Tice is a fanny.

[Lofty]

The only way to get rid of Farage as a permanent stalking horse now is he wins and is just massively corrupt and skimming all the cash he can whilst not delivering anything he promised.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't think he'd want to be Prime Minister. He doesn't have the work ethic or diligence even to do a crap, Boris Johnson-esque impression of the job. PM isn't President, the amount of poncing about in the job is minimal, it's mainly committees and briefing papers. He'd hand over I think.

[Spikey M]

The only way to get rid of Farage as a permanent stalking horse now is he wins and is just massively corrupt and skimming all the cash he can whilst not delivering anything he promised.

Last time I saw him in an interview he was saying "it's pointless trying mass deportations" and "I don't care about skin colour" in response to questions about the decline of White British people. That's not what most of his market wants to hear.

That said, the main Reform donor is a British Muslim - and one that's more right wing than Farage, if anything - so I'm not going to pretend I understand what's going on in the Far Right any more than I understand what's going on in the Far Left. Muslims for white supremacy vs feminists for trans-female athletes.

[Boydy]

1870039690075648427


Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Boydy]

Also, Mandelson is our new ambassador to the US.

1869862499501388233

How? What dirt does he have on people (and on whom) to still keep being so influential?

[Spikey M]

He's Trumps kind of guy to be fair.

[Boydy]

Fair point. Maybe he has some dirt on Trump from being Epstein's best mate.

[Magic]

You need to be a master of sleaze and corruption to have that role, as it says in the tweet great pick.

I guess the thinking behind it is to have the inside track so we can position ourselves accordingly and not be caught off guard by any lunacy.

[niko_cee]

Isn't it just the most high-profile grace-and-favour role going, what with the dazzling allure of the US and all?

We'd probably be better deploying the dark lord as ambassador to the EU, if we have one of those, if we wanted to put his chicanery to full use in the national interest.

[niko_cee]

Goodbye abolition of the Lords, hello Baroness Sue Gray.

:face:

[Boydy]

She was never elected to anything in the first place so no big change but you can't even get rid of the shit the electorate said no to any more:

1870120291952943608

[Jimmy Floyd]

Bring back the hereditary peers.

[phonics]

While I believe in checks and balances and I'm no constitutional expert, I'm not Yevrah either, looking at both us and America, are our power structures written to factor in life expectancy increasing by 30-50 years since they were written in?

[Lofty]

Labour releasing a questionable AI video with lyrics about sexually abusing young girls on the backing track this week is quite the fuck up.

[Spikey M]

Found it.

1876275516883476528?t=FunTV5jbSYpULAhTvIlyFg&s=19

How do you even manage to fuck up that badly? :D

[Pepe]

:lol:

[Ben]

Wow. :D

[SvN]

Even if you ignore the song, who the fuck thought that was a good idea? Seriously? Giant AI animals in human form?

[Spikey M]

It was something they put on TikTok apparently, which is for kids and retards, so it works.

[Pepe]

Aren't they supposed to be the lefties and therefore anti AI taking over artists' jobs?

I agree that the video is even worse than the music.

[randomlegend]

I mean the Muslamic Ray Guns being back in the news big time, I'm not sure you could pick a worse song than one which talks about punching a young girl's pussy.

[Spikey M]

Yeah, I mean, in a normal week it's a quick lolol and everyone moves on. THIS week? Congratulations on creating a load of new conspiracy theories.

[Jimmy Floyd]

AI slop graphics being taken seriously by PR types in the governing party is the start of a long and dismal road.

[Giggles]

If you wrote that for a TV show you'd be laughed out of the room for it being too far fetched.

[Spikey M]

If you wrote that for a TV show you'd be laughed out of the room for it being too far fetched.

It is increasingly feeling like we're being played with, but I think that's because the idea that this is part of a plan is more comforting than the realisation that absolutely everyone involved in running the country is completely useless, just like the last lot were.

[Yevrah]

I had the radio on in the car this morning and Farage was on LBC - he was very good and I'm increasingly of the belief that it's going to happen. This current lot and the Tories are sleepwalking into oblivion.

[Magic]

I had the radio on in the car this morning and Farage was on LBC - he was very good and I'm increasingly of the belief that it's going to happen. This current lot and the Tories are sleepwalking into oblivion.

I heard a clip of it. Why does he sound like a proper statesman now and not a total cunt? Something is up with all this. 100% nailed on next PM.

[Ben]

I heard a clip of it. Why does he sound like a proper statesman now and not a total cunt? Something is up with all this. 100% nailed on next PM.

Exactly because of what Yev said. He's no longer someone on the sidelines who needs to shout stupid shit to get heard. The incumbent have provided him the platform, so now he's front and centre it's more about not making a complete tit of yourself. And to be fair he got off to a strong start by telling Musk where to go.

[Luke Emia]

I heard a clip of it. Why does he sound like a proper statesman now and not a total cunt? Something is up with all this. 100% nailed on next PM.

Good let the cunt who’s been pissing into the tent from the outside for the last 20 years prove just how much of a charlatan he is and maybe we can move past all this culture and wars bullshit.

[SvN]

Farage is actually the favourite for next PM on Betfair. It's definitely happening.

[Yevrah]

Good let the cunt who’s been pissing into the tent from the outside for the last 20 years prove just how much of a charlatan he is and maybe we can move past all this culture and wars bullshit.

You say that as if Farage is the only one responsible for all of the culture wars bullshit, which is far from the case.

[Spikey M]

He's a conservative. His stance is basically "oh shut up" with regards to anything yer da would call woke. Blaming him for the culture wars is absurd.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm still not at all convinced by Farage, but disowning Musk is a very impressive (and not at all an obvious) move from him and if he somehow manages to transition into a serious politician over the next five years, and Reform itself doesn't collapse into a mess, then they're all going to have a serious problem on their hands. Quite big ifs, though.

[Spikey M]

I fear the right is moving further right than he is prepared to go and we will likely see another (further and maybe actually Far-right) right wing party pop up. Whether he likes it or not, his core voters like Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins and - whether it's going to happen or not - want mass deportations. Distancing himself is harming his chances.

He's probably far more palatable to normal people in his current guise and maybe Harvey Yevrah and Jimmy of Floyd would be prepared to vote for him, but if he loses his base supporters and a new version of the BNP pops up, he has split the vote of the right and he'll have no chance.

He will need to manage this very, very well to put it lightly. That said, Starmer is dropping a complete disasterclass and the Tories are still a joke, so who knows where we'll be in 4 years time.

[Ben]

Austria have just ditched their far right PM in favour of someone even more far right. Europe definitely a cycle ahead on these topics.

[Yevrah]

While I thought he handled the Musk thing very well (far better than any of the major party peeps seem to be able to do) he didn't really disown him, just pointed out that they don't agree on Tommy Robinson and that the US in general needs a bit of education when it comes to Yaxley-Lennon.

It was also refreshing to hear (seemingly honestly) that Musk's support is a big boost to reform. Night and Day away from the cloud cuckoo shit Labour have been doing with him, like that utterly pathetic and tragic move of not inviting him to that trade thing.

[randomlegend]

I'm still not at all convinced by Farage, but disowning Musk is a very impressive (and not at all an obvious) move from him and if he somehow manages to transition into a serious politician over the next five years, and Reform itself doesn't collapse into a mess, then they're all going to have a serious problem on their hands. Quite big ifs, though.

"Disowning" seems like quite a charitable interpretation of what's gone on with him and Musk. He basically said he doesn't agree with Musk's support of Tommy Robinson but would still love all his money, then Musk went on Twitter and called him a big whimpy girl.

[Yevrah]

"Disowning" seems like quite a charitable interpretation of what's gone on with him and Musk. He basically said he doesn't agree with Musk's support of Tommy Robinson but would still love all his money, then Musk went on Twitter and called him a big whimpy girl.

I've no doubt money plays a part, but he pressed home more the point that Musk's popularity with the young is giving Reform cool points. I've no idea whether either of those things are true or not. Most of the news I read just seem hell bent on painting the party as far right with very little substance on anything else, so quite difficult to ascertain.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Right and left are not really helpful terms anymore. If there's a spectrum it's from grey technocrat pragmatists at one end, to whatever Elon is up to at the other. That's why Starmer was so incensed by the latter spouting off, because he's at the far opposite end of what I think is the real spectrum these days.

Farage is probably quite centrist in this regard.

[Giggles]

Britain having a centrist PM would be great for the cause of bringing back normality. You can have your other small European countries but Britain along with the US would be huge.

[Magic]

It would be nice to have a PM with society's best interests at heart.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Pragmatists and Idealists, let's call it.

In the pragmatist corner you've basically got all of the 21st century western political and cultural establishment. Not only Starmer but David Cameron, Barack Obama, Blair, Kamala, Biden, Macron and so on. They had 25+ years of unbroken power. Quantitative easing, gay marriage, low interest rates, celebrating diversity, they're big fans of all these things. When the rape scandal comes up they are cautious and nervous and urge calm and advocate for 'community cohesion'. They have something to lose, namely their grip on the polity.

In the idealist corner, meet their opponents. President Donald J. Trump is one but then there's Bernie Sanders, there's Jeremy Corbyn, there's Elon Musk, Le Pen and so on. All these people resent the control that the pragmatists have over western culture and believe their ideas to be better. Sometimes their ideas involve palling up with Putin, or seizing the assets of the rich, or rounding up the Jews (again), or sending rockets to Mars, or whatever you can think of. The pragmatists despise not only their specific ideas but also the notion that anyone could ever take an idealist seriously, lacking as they do the sensible temperate nature that has made the pragmatists (or so they believe) successful.

What we've seen with Twitter is basically the seizing of an established pragmatist public space by the forces of idealism.

God I love a half baked theory. I'll work on it.

[Pepe]

Sounds like The Establishment vs The Populists repackaged. I am all for it.

[Spikey M]

The political compas just got a 3rd dimension.

[Manc]

Can we give the Lib Dems a turn before rolling the red carpet out for the right?

[Spikey M]

Oh Christ no. I'd sooner live the Greens a go.

[niko_cee]

Clearly a fan of massive white elephants but not getting your bin collected.

[Lewis]

The political establishment in this country could retire Nigel Farage for good by simply having the same immigration policies we had thirty years ago and locking up violent criminals for longer. Yet they choose not to, despite these being things that most people would support, because they believe that their job is primarily to provide economic opportunities for Indians, reduce energy use, and make their own people less safe in return for favourable coverage in American newspapers. These people are not 'pragmatist' in any conceivable sense.

[randomlegend]

https://i.imgur.com/mLANhKd.jpeg

This from Wes' big plan to solve the NHS actually has me seething.

It is beyond parody. I cannot express how fucking unbelievably stupid it is.

What this fictional patient's journey should be is:

1) Have appointment with actual qualified GP (not one of the clueless alphabet soup brigade)

2) GP prescribes nasal steroid and refers to ENT to see a reg in clinic

3) ENT reg rules out serious causes of hearing loss and refers on for a hearing aid

The end.

But nah, let's send her to someone who doesn't have a clue who then refers her for an unnecessary investigation.

Let's expose her to a large dose of needless radiation at a CT scanner in a fucking shopping centre; where all these extra CT scanners are coming from, fuck knows.

Then we're apparently going to have it reported before she gets home. There's not enough radiologists to report the scans we're currently doing, but yeah I'm sure we'll suddenly find a load to report all these extra completely fucking pointless scans.

Then we'll send her a CT report which she will have no fucking hope of understanding for her to stress over.

Then we'll make the ENT registrar want to kill themselves by subjecting them to a mUlTi DiSciPlInArY tEaM meeting with a primary care ANP who knows fuck all about ENT, so they can tell them the CT is normal and was a waste of time and to give her some nasal steroids.

Then she'll somehow have a choice of loads of appointments at loads of hospitals to see a consultant about her hearing loss. This already fucking exists, it's called choose and book, and when patients log on there are no appointments available anywhere. But yeah, sure, there'll suddenly be loads everywhere for her to fit one round her life.

Now she's going to get a load more pointless investigations and sees a consultant once, possibly twice, for no useful reason.

Not only is it complete cloud cuckoo land in terms of the resources available, even it if weren't it would still be about the most inefficient way to use those resources that you could possibly come up with.

These people are morons. They have literally not a single clue about the thing they're in charge of. It's insanity.

[Yevrah]

I'll bow to your knowledge on the medical practicalities of such a system RL, but what struck me reading it was that it also absolutely wreaked of spunking a fuck tonne of money up the wall.

[Yevrah]

The political establishment in this country could retire Nigel Farage for good by simply having the same immigration policies we had thirty years ago and locking up violent criminals for longer. Yet they choose not to, despite these being things that most people would support, because they believe that their job is primarily to provide economic opportunities for Indians, reduce energy use, and make their own people less safe in return for favourable coverage in American newspapers. These people are not 'pragmatist' in any conceivable sense.

I don't think they particularly give a shit about Indians, they're just using them to boost GDP (while sweeping GDP per capita under the carpet). I agree they're not pragmatists though.

[Yevrah]

Which leads me to a wider point, we're now 6 months into this new government and I am absolutely none the wiser as to what the plan is, let alone how we're going to accomplish it.

I assume the rest of you lot feel the same as it's very odd to have a sitting government that not one member of this board seems to be prepared to defend in any way.

[randomlegend]

I'll bow to your knowledge on the medical practicalities of such a system RL, but what struck me reading it was that it also absolutely wreaked of spunking a fuck tonne of money up the wall.

It's absolutely spunking loads of money up the wall.

They seem absolutely desperate to replace doctors with any other person they can pay less.

Then pay way more to make up for their lack of actual medical training and knowledge with all the pointless referrals they make and investigations they order and all the cleaning up after their fuckups that actual doctors end up having to do.

It's fucking mental. You've got GPs who can't get jobs whilst they're paying fucking paramedics - people who are desperately needed in the role they are actually trained for - cosplaying as doctors.

Let's not even go there with fucking PAs.

The whole country should be up in arms about this shit. Aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. It's all fucked.

[Boydy]

There isn't a (new) plan. It was to do things the same as before but in a slightly more "competent" way.

[Magic]

Which leads me to a wider point, we're now 6 months into this new government and I am absolutely none the wiser as to what the plan is, let alone how we're going to accomplish it.

I assume the rest of you lot feel the same as it's very odd to have a sitting government that not one member of this board seems to be prepared to defend in any way.

The only positive is no sleaze or corruption as far as I can see. Nothing major, anyway.

[Yevrah]

The only positive is no sleaze or corruption as far as I can see. Nothing major, anyway.

That is a fair point, the free clothing shit was such a non-story and that's all I can think of so far. Streeting must surely be enjoying a few envelopes to implement that monstrosity RL's posted above mind.

[Magic]

I mean it actually feels like what it used to before the daily stories of absolute lunacy started when BoJo was in charge. Grown ups.

[Pepe]

I don't think they particularly give a shit about Indians, they're just using them to boost GDP (while sweeping GDP per capita under the carpet). I agree they're not pragmatists though.

If they are trying to boost GDP, they are doing an absolutely laughable job at it.

[Spikey M]

Seeing as we're covering the NHS, my son needed a blood test today (originally Saturday, but the place we were given an appointment at couldn't do it because one of the tests had to go to the testing centre immediately) and it was a ridiculous ordeal.

Firstly, we were sent to the Chemotherapy unit, where they apparently now do walk in blood tests. Now, I'm not sure I understand the logic of doing that in a department full of immunocompromised people, but off we went. "Sorry mate, no can do, I'm not trained in paediatrics, you'll have to take him to paediatrics"

So we went up there. "Oh no, we wouldn't do that here, you'd need an appointment. Oh and your GP hasn't marked this as urgent? You could try outpatient paediatrics?"

So we went over there, "well, I don't know why you've been sent here, we only do under 4's..."

It took about 5 minutes of arguing with the lady at the desk about how ridiculous the whole thing is, never mind the stress it was causing my 6 year old anxiously awaiting his first blood test, before someone agreed they'd squeeze him in.

Anyway, what I mean to say is, defund the cunts. :moop:

[randomlegend]

That is a fair point, the free clothing shit was such a non-story and that's all I can think of so far. Streeting must surely be enjoying a few envelopes to implement that monstrosity RL's posted above mind.

Probably got some private companies lined up to take on the contracts to provide these services, with a consultancy role and a big fat payday lined up for Wes once he leaves government.

I hate the stupid-faced cunt. He's not quite as detestable as the Tory ones were, but he is an absolutely pitiful little man.

[Giggles]

I see you could have a hospital on every street corner if you just dump Boydy and the lads.

[Yevrah]

I mean it actually feels like what it used to before the daily stories of absolute lunacy started when BoJo was in charge. Grown ups.

I mean it's certainly better, it would have been almost impossible for it not to be, but I'm yet to see much competence.

Tanking confidence in the economy through trailing a disaster budget for months before it was actually announced
The handling of the winter fuel stuff
Taking a pointless moral high ground against a man who could invest Billions into the UK (maybe that's why he's started tweeting everyone now I think about it)
Getting embroiled in an argument about 'grooming gangs' without actually doing anything to dispel what they're being accused of
Whatever the fuck that animal thing on Tiktok was

Are just some off the top of my head.

Maybe it's rose tinted spectacles or because I was young and everyone seemed more mature in those days as a result, but say what you want about Thatcher or Blair's government, they knew what they wanted to do and how to get shit done.

[Boydy]

That's your next prime minister you're talking about. (@RL)

[randomlegend]

Seeing as we're covering the NHS, my son needed a blood test today (originally Saturday, but the place we were given an appointment at couldn't do it because one of the tests had to go to the testing centre immediately) and it was a ridiculous ordeal.

Firstly, we were sent to the Chemotherapy unit, where they apparently now do walk in blood tests. Now, I'm not sure I understand the logic of doing that in a department full of immunocompromised people, but off we went. "Sorry mate, no can do, I'm not trained in paediatrics, you'll have to take him to paediatrics"

So we went up there. "Oh no, we wouldn't do that here, you'd need an appointment. Oh and your GP hasn't marked this as urgent? You could try outpatient paediatrics?"

So we went over there, "well, I don't know why you've been sent here, we only do under 4's..."

It took about 5 minutes of arguing with the lady at the desk about how ridiculous the whole thing is, never mind the stress it was causing my 6 year old anxiously awaiting his first blood test, before someone agreed they'd squeeze him in.

Anyway, what I mean to say is, defund the cunts. :moop:

Does this hospital not have a phlebotomy department?

The GP was most likely the problem here. I highly suspect they knew they weren't sending you to the right place, but that once you got to hospital someone would take pity because it's a child.

[Yevrah]

If they are trying to boost GDP, they are doing an absolutely laughable job at it.

Well yeah, back to the competence thing.

[Magic]

I mean it's certainly better, it would have been almost impossible for it not to be, but I'm yet to see much competence.

Tanking confidence in the economy through trailing a disaster budget for months before it was actually announced
The handling of the winter fuel stuff
Taking a pointless moral high ground against a man who could invest Billions into the UK (maybe that's why he's started tweeting everyone now I think about it)
Getting embroiled in an argument about 'grooming gangs' without actually doing anything to dispel what they're being accused of
Whatever the fuck that animal thing on Tiktok was

Are just some off the top of my head.

Maybe it's rose tinted spectacles or because I was young and everyone seemed more mature in those days as a result, but say what you want about Thatcher or Blair's government, they knew what they wanted to do and how to get shit done.

Liz Truss wrecked the economy m8

[Luke Emia]

I wasn’t really wanting much from Labour just a bit of quiet competence. Unfortunately at the minute we don’t seem to be getting that, maybe they will grow into it.

I think as said above at least there doesn’t appear to be the level of absolute piss taking that the Tories have been into for the past 10 years so at least there is that.

[Lewis]

I don't think they particularly give a shit about Indians, they're just using them to boost GDP (while sweeping GDP per capita under the carpet). I agree they're not pragmatists though.

Not Indians specifically, but I believe this sort of thinking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_O%27Donnell#Political_views) is much more prevalent than you would expect.

As for corruption (and sort of the above), Tulip Siddiq appears to be benter than any Conservative was over their terms in office, and she is meant to be the anti-corruption bod. :harold:

[niko_cee]

Does this hospital not have a phlebotomy department?


They probably do but the blood ninjas don't seem to dabble in single figure ages.

I had a similar, albeit more my fault experience taking my daughter for an allergy blood test. Had no idea where i was going so went to blood tests or whatever the sign said, took a ticket before noticing a sign saying we only do over 10s, under 10s have to go *here*. Flagged down rabdom person and asked where *here* was, did a lap of the hospital finding it and they gave me the old blank face I'm not sure why you've been sent here treatment, you need to track back and take the third corridor on your right, ring a bell and then cross your fingers. This was for an actual pre-planned appointment. Eventually got there and it was all done very well. Then the results came back however many weeks/months later and the thing they were supposed to be testing for wasn't one of the allergens that was tested. :face:

[SvN]

I had to take a blood test 3 times, because the first two times it simply got lost. #defundtheNHS

[randomlegend]

If only they'd taken your blood in a shopping centre I'm sure it would've been done right first time.

[randomlegend]

They probably do but the blood ninjas don't seem to dabble in single figure ages.

I had a similar, albeit more my fault experience taking my daughter for an allergy blood test. Had no idea where i was going so went to blood tests or whatever the sign said, took a ticket before noticing a sign saying we only do over 10s, under 10s have to go *here*. Flagged down rabdom person and asked where *here* was, did a lap of the hospital finding it and they gave me the old blank face I'm not sure why you've been sent here treatment, you need to track back and take the third corridor on your right, ring a bell and then cross your fingers. This was for an actual pre-planned appointment. Eventually got there and it was all done very well. Then the results came back however many weeks/months later and the thing they were supposed to be testing for wasn't one of the allergens that was tested. :face:

Our ones will do any kids above the age of (I think) 3.

[Lofty]

I got sent to the hospital for an URGENT blood test by what I suspect was one of those pretend doctor jobs who panicked and the woman taking my blood spent the whole time coating me off for being sent there, even though it was quiet. All came back fine.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The political establishment in this country could retire Nigel Farage for good by simply having the same immigration policies we had thirty years ago and locking up violent criminals for longer. Yet they choose not to, despite these being things that most people would support, because they believe that their job is primarily to provide economic opportunities for Indians, reduce energy use, and make their own people less safe in return for favourable coverage in American newspapers. These people are not 'pragmatist' in any conceivable sense.

They think they are pragmatists. Centrism in the Blairite third way sense is nothing more or less than trying to be pragmatic and knit together competing points of view. Whether one is successful or ends up simply following another ideology is another matter.

[Lewis]

They can think what they like. Rationalising stupid shit to keep the plates spinning isn't pragmatism, otherwise the Yorkshire Ripper was one.

[Boydy]

1876575602951749695

Yeah, that's it done. Farage PM in 2029, if Labour even last that long.

[Spikey M]

He's not wrong either.

[niko_cee]

That was Jezza's biggest mistake.

If he'd stayed true to his beliefs he'd have pissed the post-Cameron election as the face of leave.

[Magic]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jan/07/nigel-farage-paid-189000-last-year-by-gold-dealer-to-work-four-hours-a-month

[Spikey M]

Our last PM was a Billionaire, I don't think this is going to be a problem for him.

[Magic]

Our last PM was a Billionaire, I don't think this is going to be a problem for him.

He made it quite clear he wasn't a 'man of the people' as well.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Guardian (and their weird outriders like Led By Donkeys) still chasing Farage across the landscape as if people object to him making a bit of moolah on the side. One of the things you need to learn as an adult is that the hail fellow well met sector of society get free passes for everything, and that's just the way it is. Look at Boris, there are still people riding for him now.

[Magic]

The Guardian (and their weird outriders like Led By Donkeys) still chasing Farage across the landscape as if people object to him making a bit of moolah on the side. One of the things you need to learn as an adult is that the hail fellow well met sector of society get free passes for everything, and that's just the way it is. Look at Boris, there are still people riding for him now.

I think the main point is they *are* the establishment and it should be blindingly obvious unless you're a culture war mouth breather.

[Yevrah]

Farage really is coming into his own at the moment. Speaks clearly, answers questions in a straightforward fashion and as Magic said is looking very statesman like.

[Spikey M]

It feels like there has been a huge social shift almost over night for some reason. People are starting to find their voice and state their opinions where before they'd have been silent. I can only assume it's because Starmer has used the "Far Right" line too often and people just don't care about that label anymore. Interesting times ahead.

I could do without having Farage as PM, but if it puts a boot up the arse of the establishment and makes them feel like they actually have to act to keep their jobs, then I'm all for it. I just want serious people that care about the country in charge.

[Yevrah]

The US election result showed (and many other results before it, but I think that was the final nail) that the progressive left bullshit has failed and is now well and truly dead. People are emboldened by it and have said enough is enough.

Now this is only part of it, but it speaks to why people have found their voice.

[Spikey M]

There's some of that in it too. Plus, Jimmy absolutely NAILED the grooming gang stuff kicking off. I'm not sure even he predicted Elon Musk getting on board, but he called it perfectly none the less.

[Yevrah]

The grooming gangs response has really highlighted how clueless these people are when it comes to messaging. From Starmer’s defensive but no substance response to Musk, to Jess Phillips talking about her safety, to the ludicrous idea that a full public enquiry would somehow prevent the change from happening that’s had 20 years to (from the offences) or two years from the last report, but somehow still hasn’t already.

There may well be some truth to these things but none of them have actually addressed what happened, so it all just sounds like more kicking the can down the road at best and another cover up at worst.

Contrast that with Farage’s response in seconds of “if the government won’t launch an enquiry, we will” and they’re just giving him an open goal to fire his cigarettes and real pints into.

[Kikó]

Launching an expensive public inquiry to do none of the recommended actions in 5 years seems like a good way to deal with it.

[Yevrah]

Launching an expensive public inquiry to do none of the recommended actions in 5 years seems like a good way to deal with it.

Why has it taken two years already to not implement the recommended actions? Why did the report recommending those actions take so long in the first place? Why can’t the actions be implemented and a public enquiry held and further actions updated/implemented at the end of it?

[Spikey M]

Launching an expensive public inquiry to do none of the recommended actions in 5 years seems like a good way to deal with it.

Nobody is arguing that the Tories aren't a shambles, it's just a shame to see Labour following a similar path.

We currently live in a country where Nigel Farage is seen by many as the best option and I - even though I would never vote for him - am struggling to argue with that case.

Nigel Farage the best option available. Christ this country is in the shit.

[Yevrah]

Oh and what was the timeline for implementing those actions before the whole thing blew up?

I’ve not caught up with today’s developments yet, but those 4 questions seem like quite straightforward ones (some of which can presumably be blamed on the Tories, so essentially a free pass) yet the answers don’t appear to be forthcoming.

Instead we have BBC verify going into overdrive, whilst simultaneously verifying nothing and lingering doubt that for all his eccentricities how far up the agenda was this really before Musk got involved?

[Spikey M]

Labour understandably want this to blow over. Nobody wants one of the biggest scandals in the countries history to come to the fore just as they've taken power, but the problem is that their attempts to help it blow over look an awful lot like trying to cover it up again.

It's just painful to watch. I honestly don't think they get it. The tool makers son is, I fear, as out of touch as many of us thought he might be.

[Magic]

Nobody is arguing that the Tories aren't a shambles, it's just a shame to see Labour following a similar path.

We currently live in a country where Nigel Farage is seen by many as the best option and I - even though I would never vote for him - am struggling to argue with that case.

Nigel Farage the best option available. Christ this country is in the shit.

This is the same guy that destroyed the country with BREXIT and is clearly a Russian shill/corporate shill?

[Spikey M]

This is the same guy that destroyed the country with BREXIT and is clearly a Russian shill/corporate shill?

It is. And yet there he is, saying the right stuff. It's easy stuff too. Any one of us could do it. Condemn the rapes, say it needs a review, palm it off on some Sue Grey figure hiding at the back of the chamber and then it probably would blow over. Until the results come out anyway. But then you leave that until after the next election unless you stumble upon something damning to hit the Tories with.

Easy.

[Yevrah]

Indeed. Instead they’re getting bogged down in defending not doing an inquiry due to process issues, which, with the best will in the World the average person (read voter) does not give a shit about.

[Kikó]

Why has it taken two years already to not implement the recommended actions? Why did the report recommending those actions take so long in the first place? Why can’t the actions be implemented and a public enquiry held and further actions updated/implemented at the end of it?

Yes exactly.

[Ben]

That was Jezza's biggest mistake.

If he'd stayed true to his beliefs he'd have pissed the post-Cameron election as the face of leave.

Correct.

[randomlegend]

Every fucking political story on the BBC at the moment seems to be accompanied by what Elon Musk has tweeted about it. Why? Fuck off.

[Lewis]

The previous report wasn't a report into the specific nationwide problem of Pakistanis raping white girls, and you would be hard-pressed to believe that any of its recommendations would have prevented said specific nationwide problem.

The Conservative Party are obviously being opportunists calling for something they never wanted to have, but anyone claiming that the issue was resolved with the other report is ducking it.

[Lofty]

I enjoyed Jenrick getting arse raped live on Radio 4 the other day as his record on grooming gangs was exposed given his sudden concern about them.

[Spikey M]

There's not an ounce of sincerity in the lot of them and seeing them getting exposed and embarrassed before just moving on as if nothing happed is getting really, really old.

Consequences needed.

[Spikey M]

Like this cunt:

1877007169091965265?t=kQ6nVz7op2hpynFXOywCbA&s=19

You were a Labour Councillor in 2015, then a Tory MP for about 5 years. Where was this energy then? Fuck off.

[Yevrah]

Every fucking political story on the BBC at the moment seems to be accompanied by what Elon Musk has tweeted about it. Why?

My guess is that as the nation's publicly funded news outlet they are caught between a rock and a hard place. Clearly on one hand a story about mass abuse cover up is in the national interest and they should absolutely be covering it, but on the other they clearly don't want to be touching it with a bargepole, for obvious reasons. So they've decided the approach they will take is cover it tentatively through the lens of what Musk is saying which allows them to widen that approach to other things he's gobbing off about without actually having to cover the story properly that they don't want to touch.

It's a(nother) genuine disgrace in this whole sorry episode and yet more fuel for the "legacy media are not telling you the truth" brigade on Youtube.

[niko_cee]

What are Musk's thoughts on the Carabao Cup ball?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't get what a public inquiry would achieve or why the Lee Andersons of the world are calling for it. It would just be more wishy washy recommendations that wouldn't be adopted in 12 years' time when the thing actually reports. They should just be bombarding the news cycle with new specific examples and naming people.

[Boydy]

1877267757407879413

Fantastic.

[Spikey M]

Yeah, I saw yesterday that bond/gilt prices have essentially reacted the same way to this budget as they did to the Lettuce's, but the media are mysteriously silent this time round.

I don't think other measures have reacted quite as badly (possibly until now), but yeah. Pretty shit.

Thank fuck we fixed out mortgage rate last month. It doesn't come into effect until May, and I was hoping for another interest rate from before then to fix lower still, but that's looking unlikely now.

[Ben]

Stagflation concerns. Having inflation +0.3% on the previous report off the back of the zero growth revision has really kicked this into gear.

Starmer won't last the term.

[Yevrah]

The UK is going to look very different in 5 years, isn't it? Not exactly sure what it will look like, but getting ready to buckle up for the ride.

[Yevrah]

Starmer won't last the term.

If he doesn't I've really no idea what happens. It'll be too early for Reform to pull of the result they look set to at some point, so really not sure what we're left with in the absence of that. If we're back into the merry-go-round of replacing the PM as we did with the Tories, who else is there within Labour?

[Spikey M]

Inevitable without substantial change, unfortunately. And taxing the arse off of businesses and promising growth that isn't happening, is not the answer.

I'm not too sure what the answer is, which isn't surprising, but neither do Labour, which probably isn't surprising either, really.

[Ben]

I'd imagine if the "far right" swing carries on then we'll become a US-lite. If you're not an immigrant and are in a stable profession then it might be alright.

Keep an eye on Europe as they're a few years ahead in that respect. There are a few far right governments already but mainly in basket case countries. Finland and Austria could be ones to watch in the near future. And the big one is Germany, I think they'll get there before we do.

[Spikey M]

If he doesn't I've really no idea what happens. It'll be too early for Reform to pull of the result they look set to at some point, so really not sure what we're left with in the absence of that. If we're back into the merry-go-round of replacing the PM as we did with the Tories, who else is there within Labour?

He won't last the term, but Labour will. No chance they call an early election. They'll just repeat what the Tories did.

[Spikey M]

I'd imagine if the "far right" swing carries on then we'll become a US-lite. If you're not an immigrant and are in a stable profession then it might be alright.

Keep an eye on Europe as they're a few years ahead in that respect. There are a few far right governments already but mainly in basket case countries. Finland and Austria could be ones to watch in the near future. And the big one is Germany, I think they'll get there before we do.

How are Argentina getting on with that nutter they elected?

[Yevrah]

We need to start with legalising and monetising things that a fuck load of people do. Pot being the most obvious one, but there'll be many others I'm sure.

[Ben]

How are Argentina getting on with that nutter they elected?

Completely tits up for a while but it seems their inflation is cooling and they're getting growth. Whether that's because, or in spite of, the nutter, I don't know. When you're so low, you're bound to see something positive eventually just by having regular people doing stuff.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We're currently at a state of high immigration, high borrowing, zero growth. Somebody solve that equation for me and I'll be back. No one has done so yet. The first two things should not result in zero growth.

[Spikey M]

Wage stagnation (linked to immigration), high housing costs (again, immigration) and steep inflation (I'll let Johnny Foreigner off that one) mean people just don't have money to spend. Hence; no growth.

Or, rather, growth in places you don't want it. Like in companies that manage/service debt.

[Ben]

Or, rather, growth in places you don't want it. Like in companies that manage/service debt.

That's been our problem since for at least 15 years. When there has been growth, it's not in places you and I ever witness.

In contrast, go to Poland. Or just look in any city centre on Google Street View, comparing 2010/11 to now. That's how you do it.

[Pepe]

I'd imagine if the "far right" swing carries on then we'll become a US-lite. If you're not an immigrant and are in a stable profession then it might be alright.

Immigrants do great in the US.



How are Argentina getting on with that nutter they elected?

Things are happening exactly as they were predicted to occur. That's what happens when you elect someone with an actual goal and a proper plan to get there.

[Pepe]

Wage stagnation (linked to immigration), high housing costs (again, immigration) and steep inflation (I'll let Johnny Foreigner off that one) mean people just don't have money to spend. Hence; no growth.

Or, rather, growth in places you don't want it. Like in companies that manage/service debt.

The first two (housing in particular) are way more due to regulations than immigration. All those pesky foreigners could be building houses on the cheap, you know? If only the government allowed for such a terrible thing to happen.

[Magic]

All essential things (water, energy, housing, transport etc) should be under social control.

Ban landlords and land/property owners, inc commercial real estate.

Law that dictates you can earn as much as you want but the multiplier must be only 10x as much as your lowest paid employee.

Nobody should own more than 1b worth of net worth, however it's made up.

Allow sex with minors.

[randomlegend]

:D

[Ben]

You had me until the end there.

[Magic]

In reality, what's fucked us? We could have kept the same stupid system however;

Thatcher
BREXIT
Tory private sector corruption, mostly but not limited to COVID
Greed

[Ben]

I love a bit of Thatcher bashing so let's have it.

Boomers yearn for her return but she really got the ball rolling on fucking us. Ditching all manufacturing and becoming a service economy is why we have nowhere to turn getting out of this mess.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In the modern mind British history seems to start with Thatcher, as if she Mary Poppinsed in from the clouds. You need to do some looking into what caused her to happen. The Heath and second Wilson years in particular.

Heath has a good claim to worst PM ever, despite the recent parade of rivals for the accolade.

[Spikey M]

I love a bit of Thatcher bashing so let's have it.

Boomers yearn for her return but she really got the ball rolling on fucking us. Ditching all manufacturing and becoming a service economy is why we have nowhere to turn getting out of this mess.

Not only that, but selling our infrastructure to overseas business men. Or train companies for example. They're basically owned entirely by Italian and German companies, that rip us off so that they can reduce train tickets in their own countries. Which gives them all sorts of competitive advantages. I'm sure there are many other examples of this. The Royal Mail being one of them. Water companies being another.

[niko_cee]

Wasn't the UK a complete basket case prior to Thatcher?

There must come a point at which it stops being a viable argument to keep blaming things that happened 30/40 years ago.

[Pepe]

I love that you lot constantly talk about how incompetent your government is, yet you want them to be in control of more stuff.

For anyone interested in Milei:

Preliminary Milei Report Card (https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/preliminary-milei-report-card)

[Magic]

In the modern mind British history seems to start with Thatcher, as if she Mary Poppinsed in from the clouds. You need to do some looking into what caused her to happen. The Heath and second Wilson years in particular.

Heath has a good claim to worst PM ever, despite the recent parade of rivals for the accolade.

OK so we smoked and got cancer. Thatcher was the chemotherapy and radiotherapy, triple dose, that got rid of the cancer. But the decimation of our immune system has left us crippled and riddled with multiple terminal auto-immune illnesses and we're on life support.

The only way we can recover is a full reset, a re-birth. This country is absolutely fucked. We are severe late-stage capitalism and the PE takeover will be the final nail.

[Magic]

I love that you lot constantly talk about how incompetent your government is, yet you want them to be in control of more stuff.

For anyone interested in Milei:

Preliminary Milei Report Card (https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/preliminary-milei-report-card)

All our government does is give stuff away to private sector lol. So yes, we'd like to be in control of even a single thing plz. Even if it is breathtakingly incompetent I'd rather that than corrupt private sector.

[Spikey M]

Wasn't the UK a complete basket case prior to Thatcher?

There must come a point at which it stops being a viable argument to keep blaming things that happened 30/40 years ago.

It was a shithole, yes.

However, one thing I notice over and over again is that we praise / criticise politicians for global events. Did Thatcher really turn things around? Or was she just in power when technology started to tick over into the current age. The west as a whole boomed at the same time, really. The same goes for the dot com bubble bursting, the 2008 financial crisis, etc.

[Spikey M]

I love that you lot constantly talk about how incompetent your government is, yet you want them to be in control of more stuff.

For anyone interested in Milei:

Preliminary Milei Report Card (https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/preliminary-milei-report-card)

If not the government, British companies. Selling your infrastructure abroad is just asset striping.

[Magic]

It was a shithole, yes.

However, one thing I notice over and over again is that we praise / criticise politicians for global events. Did Thatcher really turn things around? Or was she just in power when technology started to tick over into the current age. The west as a whole boomed at the same time, really. The same goes for the dot com bubble bursting, the 2008 financial crisis, etc.

Giving free publicly owned stuff away to rich people so they can make even more money stimulates the economy.

[Spikey M]

Giving free publicly owned stuff away to rich people so they can make even more money stimulates the economy.

Granted. But was she the brains behind that, or - as I suspect - was she just doing what America was doing?

[Magic]

Granted. But was she the brains behind that, or - as I suspect - was she just doing what America was doing?

Yeah it was in tandem.

Absolute short termism and benefited very few. But ECONOMY and GROWTH and all that.

[niko_cee]

Did it really benefit very few?

It's only really post-2008, when interest rates went to zero and massive asset value transfers to the wealthy on the back of that really kicked in that things seem to have gone off the previous generally upward trajectory, and even then, there are probably other, competing reasons for why things are as they are at the moment - ageing population etc - if they even are that bad.

[Yevrah]

You can't on one hand say the Boomers have ruined our lives by accruing and then hording all the wealth and on the other say that nobody of Boomer age benefitted from what was happening at the time in the 80s. It's moronic.

[Serj]

I'd imagine if the "far right" swing carries on then we'll become a US-lite. If you're not an immigrant and are in a stable profession then it might be alright.

Keep an eye on Europe as they're a few years ahead in that respect. There are a few far right governments already but mainly in basket case countries. Finland and Austria could be ones to watch in the near future. And the big one is Germany, I think they'll get there before we do.

Our (Austria's) version of this will presumably be an inverted version of the coaltion we've already had twice: Freedom Party (right-wing) as senior partners this time, with our Conservatives (People's Party) in a new role as junior partner. I think the playbook will very much be modelled after Hungary (and Slovakia, I guess): defund our public broadcasting service and replace it with something much more friendly to their messaging, then entrench themselves in key positions and probably try to coopt the judiciary Poland-style.

Fuck knows what the foreign policy will be. The Freedom Party is very pro-Russia, but I'm not sure the Conservatives (pro-EU) will be having that.