December: Rockin' around the Premier League

[phonics]

Jesus Christ that overload lol.

[Luke Emia]

Liverpool look shagged.

[Gray Fox]

Since that breakout we've looked fucked.

Trent perhaps a lucky boy.

[SincereTheRebel]

How long have these Arsenal players been wearing Magic Gloves from the checkout at B&M. Ban them.

[Waffdon]

Saliba is what we call different gravy

[Manc]

Far too many nothing players in both sides. City will piss it.

[Gray Fox]

Saliba and Konate keeping that game from being 5-5 in the end. Both immense.

[phonics]

Saliba is what we call different gravy

It’s nuts how good he is and then Gabriel alongside is perfect. We’ve gone from Sokratis and Mustafi to this.

[Don]

Solid point, will need to smash them at theirs once Mac and Robbo are back.

[niko_cee]

No Salah for that one though.

Doubt Robertson will be back either.

[Don]

Ah ofc. Endo too :*) Salah is a dead man walking, penalties and useless neo-nazis will hopefully see us bag a world record fee but his absence I'm not massively worried about. It's the CBs and Alisson we need to keep fit.

[phonics]

Just to set out my stall so people can’t call me a hypocrite on these things. I’d be absolutely raging if the Odegaard penalty decision was on the other foot. The Havertz one was 50/50.

[phonics]

Meanwhile something to bring both sets of fans together

1738610637297627640

[niko_cee]

PGMOL have already got out on the front foot on the penalty.

Just raises more questions really, but whatever. The rules of the game are basically fucked with decisions being no more or less random than they ever have been. Just having had the chance for spontaneous joy removed. 2 draws a bit bleh but makes the league a better spectacle I guess.

Ah, just seen Rodri wasn't seriously injured last night. Sad times.

[phonics]

PGMOL have already got out on the front foot on the penalty.

Just raises more questions really, but whatever. The rules of the game are basically fucked with decisions being no more or less random than they ever have been. Just having had the chance for spontaneous joy removed. 2 draws a bit bleh but makes the league a better spectacle I guess.

Ah, just seen Rodri wasn't seriously injured last night. Sad times.

The issue is the absolute arse they've made of it. They built into the rules that VAR will not undermine the ref but now refs are not making decisions in the hope that if they're wrong then VAR will correct them. But due to the rules, unless the ref has publicly shit himself and smeared faeces across his face then the decision stands.

As someone who wanted Video Replay my thinking was always that a 3rd party would check offsides because seeing it in real time is hard and on anything else the on-field ref would just have the ability to go to a screen if he was in 2 minds about something and wanted to make sure his first instinct was correct. This stockley park bunker shit is atrocious.

[Spikey M]

the on-field ref would just have the ability to go to a screen if he was in 2 minds about something and wanted to make sure his first instinct was correct.

The whole thing should just be stripped back to this.

[niko_cee]

Even the matter of fact offsides that are wrong are ruined by the micro-offsides and the not putting the flag up shit.

No sport has really benefited from video intervention.

I suppose maybe tennis as that's a strict line thing, but anything with an ounce of objectivity massively suffers from a viewers perspective.

Even cricket, which by a distance is probably the best suited to it, has lost the moment of joy you used to get from a dismissal.

Goal line fine, everything else, no.

[Ian]

Keep offsides but give 'em 20 seconds or something. If you need to fuck about drawing lines and highlighting elbows then it's not obvious for the linesman to have dropped a clanger. 15-20 seconds to check a few angles, eyeball it, job done.

EDIT: This is the 'realistic' suggestion. I'm probably mostly on Niko's side with just stripping it right back to making sure we know if the ball has gone over the line but there is a way to do this which isn't excruciating.

[Yevrah]

I can’t remember who I was arguing with about this at the time but it was clear as day before it came in that refs would rely on it in favour of making a decision and getting it wrong, which they’d also do if they could review the footage themselves.

The whole thing needs binning off immediately, it’s utterly unworkable in a sport that moves as fast as football and that also involves rampant subjectivity.

Get it gone.

[niko_cee]

https://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/showthread.php?2042-VAR-Yay-or-Nay

[phonics]

Even the matter of fact offsides that are wrong are ruined by the micro-offsides and the not putting the flag up shit.

No sport has really benefited from video intervention.

I suppose maybe tennis as that's a strict line thing, but anything with an ounce of objectivity massively suffers from a viewers perspective.

Even cricket, which by a distance is probably the best suited to it, has lost the moment of joy you used to get from a dismissal.

Goal line fine, everything else, no.

So while the micro offside analysis is annoying, the pre-VAR times where one decision would be offside due to the striker having a size 12 and the defender having a size 11 then you concede a goal thats a good yard off side was infuriating. The irony of the VAR offside opposition is it's the one thing that's actually consistent which is what people ask for and everyone hates it.

[phonics]

https://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/showthread.php?2042-VAR-Yay-or-Nay


So what you're saying is the problem is with the rules not VAR. In which case I'd agree. If you can tell me what is or isn't a handball with 100% accuracy at this point in time then you're a better man than I.

Good to know that I've been consistently banging the drum for 'the interpretations of handball is a farce' for half a decade and it's worse than ever.

[Luke Emia]

The issue is the absolute arse they've made of it. They built into the rules that VAR will not undermine the ref but now refs are not making decisions in the hope that if they're wrong then VAR will correct them. But due to the rules, unless the ref has publicly shit himself and smeared faeces across his face then the decision stands.

This is the problem referee's don't make decisions anymore. Then when you hear them talking and all they tell the players is 'It will be checked...'

[Gray Fox]

Well done guys. Great process.

[phonics]

It's so funny seeing the Twitter fallout from the Twitter weirdos when both teams are equally good and a draw is a fair result so they have to find something else to moan about. Currently the decision seems to be that Saka should be in jail for winning a 50/50.

[Kikó]

Var is awful and has killed top level football.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Let's say they actually binned it and went back to the referee's decision being final, what would happen? Would fans' blood boil even more (as the percentage of 'correct outcomes' would go down)? Would there start being legal challenges by clubs on the wrong end of decisions?

[niko_cee]

Probably.

As was my initial misgiving, once you open Pandora's box all the shit won't go back into it. Those Greeks eh?

Also, any such move would be mainly to the benefit of match-going fans, and football authorities have never really cared about them since forever, and in most cases actively dislike them.

[Gray Fox]

Would there start being legal challenges by clubs on the wrong end of decisions?

I'm very surprised that the Americans at Arsenal but mainly Liverpool have not launched into this already, after what's gone on this season.

The thing that irks me the most about the VAR is that the commentary team can see and listen in real time, to the checks going on, yet we at home can't hear it.
The match going fan experience of it needs a big overhaul too. If you're so sure you're getting the decision right, put it up on a big screen in the stadium.

[Kikó]

Football needs to stop taking itself so seriously. It's really not that important.

[Waffdon]

Crystal Palace getting 6 days to recover for their match on Wednesday whilst Chelsea play 3 games in 6 days. What an awful schedule

[phonics]

Spending a billion quid in 2 years and whining about fixture congestion vs Crystal Palace. Two bit.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Football needs to stop taking itself so seriously. It's really not that important.

Self-evident to you and I but not when you look at the bulging blood vessels of Goodison Park - and other grounds - it's the most important thing in their lives by a long way.

[Kikó]

Self-evident to you and I but not when you look at the bulging blood vessels of Goodison Park - and other grounds - it's the most important thing in their lives by a long way.

I've basically turned into my mum "it's only a game". The pure beauty of the game is in its simplicity but not to the money men which is shit the big clubs making a commercial brand. The crap my brother in law does for FIFA just confirms how much the game is lost.

[Yevrah]

Probably.

As was my initial misgiving, once you open Pandora's box all the shit won't go back into it. Those Greeks eh?

Also, any such move would be mainly to the benefit of match-going fans, and football authorities have never really cared about them since forever, and in most cases actively dislike them.

It’s dogshit as a Sky wanker as well though. Seeing a great goal scored only for a ludicrously long pause to follow before some twat in a cupboard decides that a player was millimetres ahead of a defender is simply not entertainment.

Agree with the Pandora’s box assessment though and I’m resigned to the fact that it’s here to stay.

[Yevrah]

If you're so sure you're getting the decision right, put it up on a big screen in the stadium.

They’re not though are they, which is why it takes so long and yet another reason why it doesn’t work.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've basically turned into my mum "it's only a game". The pure beauty of the game is in its simplicity but not to the money men which is shit the big clubs making a commercial brand. The crap my brother in law does for FIFA just confirms how much the game is lost.

The first law of capitalism is that it eats anything that's good. Mind you, if you think back to socialist football I'm not sure that's great either (too many murders, for a start) so I guess we're stuck reminiscing about disorganised shambles football of our youths.

[Shindig]

That would require every Premier League stadium to have a big screen. And place it in such a way a referee could see it (i.e. not where Newcastle had theirs)

[Kikó]

Every team in the super League will have a big screen

[niko_cee]

Talk of tv ruining the matchday experience, my father in law showed me a photo of his view from the away end at Palace the other day and the tv/camera gantry means you can barely see the far side of the pitch and as soon as the ball goes above shoulder height it's gone from view.

:cab:

I've not been there since the 90s but it was a shithole then and I assume little has changed.

Weirdly seems to have lost its intimidating atmosphere since they've been back in the big time this time around, so I assume something must have changed, other than the steady tide of gentrification.

[Spikey M]

Football needs to stop taking itself so seriously. It's really not that important.

Maybe not to you, but football is everything for the average man on the street.

(PARKLIFE)

From the pre-drinks at spoons, the whistle at 3 to screaming at the referee.

(YOU BLIND CUNT, PARKLIFE)

It's a religion, a culture, a dogma, maybe even a complex philosophy.

(PARKLIFE)

Something, something, something something something fucking jamboree.

(PARKLIFE)

[niko_cee]

You missed the bit about placing a cheeky acca within your limits.

(PARKLIFE)

[Shindig]

And then I'm happy for the rest of the day. Safe in the knowledge a team unrelated to us is having a slightly worse season.

(PARKLIFE)

[Don]

Literally nothing in your pathetic lives is "important" so kindly stop directing your frustrations at the beautiful game.

[Waffdon]

Colwill at left back again. This fucking guy.

[Jimmy Floyd]

My live score app is showing Jackson on the left flank, I presume that's some classic Christmas comedy from the jolly japesters behind the app, rather than where he's actually going to play.

[Waffdon]

That what his position until the last 12 months or so when moved through the middle.

Caicedo and Fernandez both out the squad entirely. Nkunku and Lavia finally on the bench together after 6 months but 2 more go out injured.

[Don]

Gotta fancy Wolves here against that disgusting XI, Sterling, Palmer and the BLM gang in defence are the only players that would so much as threaten making a combined XI.

[Waffdon]

Sterling needs a long term long term injury. The injury gods came in clutch with the Sanchez and Cucurella injuries so here’s hoping

[Jimmy Floyd]

Lesley Ugochukwu would make a women's world XI mate.

[Waffdon]

Sterling should sacked on the spot for that. Utter cunt

[phonics]

Chelsea are both packed full of amazing players and should be in the Champions League but also everyone who starts for them is a disgrace to the badge and the binman who picks them is a fraud. Ironically if you balance these two opinions the club in question would be finishing in mid table.

[Don]

They've been the better side to a very decent Wolves side and dictated play in their own back yard. All whilst you have Broja, Jackson and Sterling miss chances that any respectable prem attacker is putting in whilst Gallagher has the ball bouncing off him like the League 2 player he is and then people try and say xG is bullshit and they won't shoot up the table when Nkunku and whatever other signing slots in.

[phonics]

This is the most Jimmy opinion ever but 'have we overcoached players so much that they're incapable of doing the obvious thing if it's not in the UEFA B License handbook'

https://i.imgur.com/yB99nwC.png

The state of this.

[niko_cee]

Be honest, he'd have overhit the pass had he gone for it.

Or Jackson would have Ronnie Rosenthal'd it.

[Waffdon]

Most Chelsea result and performance possible so far.

Need Sterling to pull a hamstring desperately.

[Don]

Wolves need to secure this before Nkunku comes on.

[phonics]

Be honest, he'd have overhit the pass had he gone for it.

Or Jackson would have Ronnie Rosenthal'd it.

Maybe but imagine the xG they could quote from the ensuing miss.

[randomlegend]

Ratcliffe's stake finally going to be announced today apparently.

[niko_cee]

Here comes the big right hand.

[randomlegend]

Chelsea are so, so bad. They are even worse than United.

[Ben]

Waffdon explain these subs.

[Waffdon]

And he keeps Sterling on the pitch.

Pochettino is on the take. No other reason for all of these decisions since the summer

[-james-]

Chelsea are so, so bad. They are even worse than United.

Steady on.

[Waffdon]

Need a goal. Put Disasi at right back. Jesus Christ

[niko_cee]

The tracking back, or lack thereof, from Chelsea's midfield and attack when they inevitably give the ball away stupidly is something else.

[Kikó]

Ratcliffe's stake finally going to be announced today apparently.

FT a little more skeptical. https://archive.is/2023.12.24-131947/https://www.ft.com/content/bf1c2181-1b4b-407f-af6e-f741b786c22e#

[Waffdon]

They don’t have a midfield even out there. Gallagher on his own. Pochettino masterclass.

The fact he’s not even coming under pressure is hilarious.

[phonics]

They're just spreading the midfield across 8 years like proper custodians.

[niko_cee]

Given the state of that almost break there by Wolves I can only assume 'the operation' has expanded its gambit to mass lobotomies.

[randomlegend]

FT a little more skeptical. https://archive.is/2023.12.24-131947/https://www.ft.com/content/bf1c2181-1b4b-407f-af6e-f741b786c22e#

Nah they were saying that is what has held it up for so long, no that it's been delayed further.

[niko_cee]

:lol:

[phonics]

I hadn't clocked that Chelsea had a shirt sponsor after the last one was deemed illegal so I gave it a google.


Our mission is to build an operating system for sports that powers infinite innovation and makes sports better for the fan, the game, and the athlete.


Born out of the idea that the world can do better in all aspects of sports and live events – the fan, the game, and the athlete experience – Infinite Athlete’s goal is to create a single technological foundation across all major sports, upon which innovative sports technology and media products can be built.

Sounds both good and very real.

[Waffdon]

If he survives this he’s never getting sacked. He’ll be lucky to get 40 points the massive mong

[Spikey M]

Lol

[phonics]

Arsenal top of the table while Chelsea are shit with a former-Tottenham manager destroying his reputation is almost enough to make me believe in Santa.

[Giggles]

That Wolves defending was disgraceful.

[niko_cee]

Ref should have done the old pointy pointy thing as he booked Sterling there, an accumulation of attempted cheating. Would definitely have time for that as a concept.

[Don]

The intercontinental Fener-Gala derby at 4pm for anyone fancying it, should be tasty.

[Waffdon]

Arsenal top of the table while Chelsea are shit with a former-Tottenham manager destroying his reputation is almost enough to make me believe in Santa.

Warra European trophy for you

[phonics]

Must be devastating to support Dundee for years then jump ship to being a Top Blue when the consistent failure gets too much, only for a geopolitical clusterfuck to condemn you to watching the same thing with a bigger budget.

[SincereTheRebel]

Chelski have been wasteful for going on two years now?

[Giggles]

Still though, Matt Dockitty :cool:

[randomlegend]

Must be devastating to support Dundee for years then jump ship to being a Top Blue when the consistent failure gets too much, only for a geopolitical clusterfuck to condemn you to watching the same thing with a bigger budget.

lol

[Waffdon]

Must be devastating to support Dundee for years then jump ship to being a Top Blue when the consistent failure gets too much, only for a geopolitical clusterfuck to condemn you to watching the same thing with a bigger budget.

Who the fuck are Dundee.

[Dark Soldier]

Ratcliffe deal done then

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67815642

[Shindig]

First order of business. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67808736)

[SincereTheRebel]

Back from the Wolves game and im not watching Fenerbahce vs Galatasary.

[Mike]

Give the United fans 12 months of not being much good and they’ll be out in the green and yellow again.

[niko_cee]

First order of business. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67808736)

Probably need to address the zero star [goal] onfield product first.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Wolves much better on paper, so I'm not sure how it's the manager's fault. Perhaps the modern football manager is just a target to lash out on for no reason.

[phonics]

Give the United fans 12 months of not being much good and they’ll be out in the green and yellow again.

The big issue with Ratcliffe taking over and INEOS'ing the fuck out of the team is that steroids don't up the talent level just the stamina so the various 'marginal gains' things won't actually make the team good.

[phonics]

Wolves much better on paper, so I'm not sure how it's the manager's fault. Perhaps the modern football manager is just a target to lash out on for no reason.

Unlike Waff, Jimmy remembers the good ol days where Chelsea were the team full of Jorge Mendes clients instead of Wolves so he knows who wins.

[Giggles]

Is this not just more sportswashing?

[randomlegend]

The big issue with Ratcliffe taking over and INEOS'ing the fuck out of the team is that steroids don't up the talent level just the stamina so the various 'marginal gains' things won't actually make the team good.

Ratcliffe taking over means you don't have the Glazers in control of who runs the footballing side of the club. That is what matters. No more investment bankers as sporting director.

[phonics]

Ratcliffe taking over means you don't have the Glazers in control of who runs the footballing side of the club. That is what matters. No more investment bankers as sporting director.

Unless you're talking about his ability to install undetectable steroid regimes I'd ask why you think the guy who's guided a team who finished 4th,17th,11th,4th,3rd prior to them taking over and converted that into a finish of 9th,5th,9th will be any better. They haven't sold a single player for over 10 million euros in their entire time owning the club so I'm not sure you can rely on Jim's eye for the transfer market.

[Kikó]

Oh yeah you're right. Actually ineos coming in with a focus on the football side rather than commercial and investing £300m is a net negative for all involved.

[niko_cee]

Have Ineos won a grand tour since taking over from Sky? Geoghan-Hart's Giro? Feels like they probably don't have the steroid thing all that down pat, and he was/they were just mugged off buying into that team.

I guess at least he isn't buying into United at the top of their cycle.

Reckon he could persuade Pep over?

[Kikó]

Why when we have Potter lined up?

[Shindig]

Probably need to address the zero star [goal] onfield product first.

What if the two are related? They've been shitting themselves for months.

[phonics]

Oh yeah you're right. Actually ineos coming in with a focus on the football side rather than commercial and investing £300m is a net negative for all involved.

Yeah with 300 million you could get *checks notes* 2 Antonys and a year of Bruno.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIat9BfX0AE0Af1.jpg

[randomlegend]

Unless you're talking about his ability to install undetectable steroid regimes I'd ask why you think the guy who's guided a team who finished 4th,17th,11th,4th,3rd prior to them taking over and converted that into a finish of 9th,5th,9th will be any better. They haven't sold a single player for over 10 million euros in their entire time owning the club so I'm not sure you can rely on Jim's eye for the transfer market.

They are currently second in the league, no?

I won't pretend to follow Nice religiously, but by all accounts it took Ineos a while to get their head around football but their fans are very pleased with them nowadays.

[randomlegend]

Yeah with 300 million you could get *checks notes* 2 Antonys and a year of Bruno.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIat9BfX0AE0Af1.jpg

We wouldn't have signed Antony for £85m with competent people in charge of the footballing side. That's the whole point.

They plan to put actual FOOTBALL PEOPLE (TM) in the positions previously occupied by the likes of Woodward and Arnold.

United on the footballing side is a MESS. The whole infrastructure is a disaster, from the people to the stadium to the training facilities. It has been completely neglected by the Glazers. It will take years to get them back to being a competitive club and (given the likes of City, PSG and Newcastle) it may never happen, but they have a much better chance with Ineos having control over the footballing side than the fucking Glazers.

Non-United fans just see us spaffing loads in the transfer market and can't understand why we complain, but the Glazers have instilled incompetence and dereliction throughout the entire club. They are appalling owners whose leveraged buyout should never have been allowed in the first place.

[phonics]

I believe it. You're talking to an Arsenal fan. Our Director of Football resigned out of the blue and no-one in the media can say why without getting sued. I know farce. I'm just not sure that different = good.

[randomlegend]

Except there are clear signs of Ratcliffe at least trying to do better. Like employing people with football experience into football roles. Like bunging £300m at making a start on fixing the stadium, training facilities, etc. It's no guarantee of success, but there's no way it'll be as bad as the Glazers.

[phonics]

I don't even need to do a quick check of things United have won between 2004 and now to know I'd win the 'it can't be as bad as the glazers' bet.

[randomlegend]

You're comparing us to Arsenal there? The difference is United are a commercial behemoth which makes insane amounts of money. The Glazers have taken more than £1bn out of the club and we've still managed to spend the amount we have. Throwing endless money at a problem is (clearly) not a guaranteed recipe for success, but it certainly helps. Arsenal have not had close to the same spending power across the same period.

You'd have to be actively and deliberately sabotaging the club to do worse than the Glazers.

[Jimmy Floyd]

United are on the old Liverpool cycle now and this is just another iteration.

[Kikó]

We'll see. I'm happy to be quietly optimistic at Ratcliffe and ineos and a change from the status quo. The huge commercial advantage we had when the glazers took over is gone now so we'll need to be smarter.

[randomlegend]

The huge commercial advantage we had when the glazers took over is gone now so we'll need to be smarter.

Another thing pissed away by the Glazers. Who'd have thought being satisfied with mediocrity on the pitch at a football club would lead to them being less commercially successful?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That equaliser is all due to Almiron being toilet.

[Don]

MGW is such an elite fucking talent, the touches, the weight of pass, the vision, he needs to be playing CL.

[Shindig]

Fucking hell. Howe's gone.

[Don]

Alex Scott, you filthy sexual being.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not sure how any of the Newcastle situation is Howe's fault, squad + injuries = where they are or worse. He'd be back in work within weeks if they sacked him.

[Don]

Jim, I don't want to hear your head coming up from Bill Foley's crotch for so much as a breath until 2024.

[Giggles]

Is he gone or not?

[Gray Fox]

Another example of Nunez not having to think leading to good things.

[Shindig]

Not sure how any of the Newcastle situation is Howe's fault, squad + injuries = where they are or worse. He'd be back in work within weeks if they sacked him.

I think the way we play is causing a couple of problems. When the squad's knackered, it's just going to make them even more knackered.

[niko_cee]

Shame that Salah one that hit the bar didn't go in, so VAR could have ruled it out for brushing his elbow.

[niko_cee]

That's a farcical decision. Keeper completely wrong footed, but no room for nuance in the land of the all seeing eye.

[Gray Fox]

Feels like a night where we'll create about 50 chances and draw 1-1.

[igor_balis]

Salah being pushed into an offside position is pretty funny, is there even anything in the rules to account for that?

[Baz]

Is Quansah good or is he just better than the recent shite that were in the pecking order behind Matip and Konate?

[igor_balis]

Liverpool have been well boring every time I've watched them this season

[Don]

This guy's finishing, man.

[Gray Fox]

For the love of god more Jota, less Diaz.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Onana :face:

He's absolute toilet.

[Don]

This is turning into racial bullying :lol:

[niko_cee]

Seeing as Dan the man Ashworth is still at the other United is there not a risk Potter might end up there rather than taking over this ongoing car crash?

[Giggles]

Ipswich do indeed look turd again. Shocking at the back.

[Don]

Oh boy, we're in for some proper toxic scenes here :drool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Ten Hag has to be gone.

[SincereTheRebel]

Ten Hag has to be gone.

Naaa he stays for entertainment purposes.

[niko_cee]

Villa pipping Arsenal to the title is the best possible although also least likely outcome for this season. Even moreso if they play each other towards the end, even moreso if such a game were at Arsenal.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Villa pipping Arsenal to the title is the best possible although also least likely outcome for this season. Even moreso if they play each other towards the end, even moreso if such a game were at Arsenal.

13th April (game 33) at Arsenal...

[Yevrah]

Ten Hag has to be gone.

Hard to argue with that and there are tell tale signs that he's lost the dressing room.


Hi Svn :wave:

[Waffdon]

He’s not been in the betting thread either recently stalking Taz, the massive weapon

[niko_cee]

Hopefully they can hold out long enough to appoint waistcoat in the summer.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He’s not been in the betting thread either recently stalking Taz, the massive weapon

Too busy sacking pensioners.

[Giggles]

Villa pipping Arsenal to the title is the best possible although also least likely outcome for this season. Even moreso if they play each other towards the end, even moreso if such a game were at Arsenal.

As if Liverpool aren't winning it. Surely that's your best outcome?

[SvN]

Hard to argue with that and there are tell tale signs that he's lost the dressing room.


Hi Svn :wave:

No idea what this is referencing. Some sort of e-victory presumably?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That was a lovely goal though.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Why do none of our attackers know the offside rule?

[Yevrah]

No idea what this is referencing. Some sort of e-victory presumably?

Not referencing an e-victory, I don't think there's one to be had. I knew you'd be reading, so thought I'd say hi.

[niko_cee]

As if Liverpool aren't winning it. Surely that's your best outcome?

I was thinking more in terms of the general narrative. Whilst you are probably right I'm struggling to sustain much interest in this iteration of football. 6 draws already looking concerning for Liverpool.

Every goal being accompanied by 5 minutes of confused shrugging whilst the vid bods desperately scramble around to find a reason to rule it out has gone beyond boring.

[Waffdon]

Villa have been absolutely horrendous this half.

[Yevrah]

Every goal being accompanied by 5 minutes of confused shrugging whilst the vid bods desperately scramble around to find a reason to rule it out has gone beyond boring.

It desperately needs someone to take it by the scruff of the neck and put entertainment at the forefront of how it should work going forward.

[Giggles]

I was thinking more in terms of the general narrative. Whilst you are probably right I'm struggling to sustain much interest in this iteration of football. 6 draws already looking concerning for Liverpool.

Every goal being accompanied by 5 minutes of confused shrugging whilst the vid bods desperately scramble around to find a reason to rule it out has gone beyond boring.

Yeah it is gone a load of bollocks really in fairness. Up there with how defensive pass interference has me at about the end of the NFL too.

[niko_cee]

It desperately needs someone to take it by the scruff of the neck and put entertainment at the forefront of how it should work going forward.

Entertainment requires that armpit offsides on the hallway line aren't a reason for given goals to be ruled out.

Much like Salah hitting the bar earlier. I'm sure VAR would have chalked that one off for it having touched his elbow in a completely inconsequential way. There is no way to make a super strict pursuit of objective truth in a subjective world entertaining.

[Giggles]

It desperately needs someone to take it by the scruff of the neck and put entertainment at the forefront of how it should work going forward.

It doesn't interfere with YouTube highlights or Twitter clips, so nobody running the game will give a toss about changing things.

[niko_cee]

Yeah it is gone a load of bollocks really in fairness. Up there with how defensive pass interference has me at about the end of the NFL too.

Indeed, and all because of pissing and moaning after a MAJOR ERROR that one time. At least NFL has breaks to make it work somewhat, but I still think it is weird that some things are reviewable and some aren't. Same as it was in rugby when forward passes were never considered.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Garnacho :cool:

[Yevrah]

It doesn't interfere with YouTube highlights or Twitter clips, so nobody running the game will give a toss about changing things.

Oh it's absolutely here to stay, Pandora's Box has been well and truly opened.

[Shindig]

I do wish VAR was introduced more gradually. Have it just deal with offsides whilst they streamline the err.... process. Unfortunately, once you have the technology, they'll want to double-check everything.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Fuck Villa.

WE ARE BACK.

[Don]

:sick:

[niko_cee]

4 more years!

In fairness, this is a classic Villa at OT tale as old as time stuff. Fucking Macheda.

[Lewis]

That was a really good finish.

[niko_cee]

Is that his first league goal?

[Yevrah]

Maybe Erik just needs to play the youngsters.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Is that his first league goal?

Yep.

Had gone just over 1000 minutes without one.

[Cord]

Villa, like Chelsea, have played precisely into the one thing United can actually do. Even if it took them 73 offsides to it right.

So cheers lads, I guess.

[Kikó]

Cord 👀

Yeah, villa have played a high line which is the one thing we have some tools against.

[Luke Emia]

Entertainment requires that armpit offsides on the hallway line aren't a reason for given goals to be ruled out.

Much like Salah hitting the bar earlier. I'm sure VAR would have chalked that one off for it having touched his elbow in a completely inconsequential way. There is no way to make a super strict pursuit of objective truth in a subjective world entertaining.

Aye that Salah one would have been chalked off because he’s the player who has benefited from it. Which would have been even funnier if it has gone in and been disallowed but then look at the logic as to why that penalty wasn’t given at the weekend.

The offside one is weird in some ways because you could clearly see the keeper going the other way before Elliot hit the ball and thus was never getting anywhere near it but yet on a subjective call the referee calls it offside? Bizarre.

[niko_cee]

Look at the screen = change your decision/do what the eye in the sky says.

Tierney also a dreadful ref so good to get away with 3 points.

Another thing I don't get is that if any outfield player makes the challenge on Rashford that Martinez did then they probably get sent off for being wildly out of control, regardless of getting the ball first. Keepers still seem free to maim at will as long as they get even a glancing touch on the ball.

[Baz]

Can we all agree that Endo is the signing of the season? :nod:

[SincereTheRebel]

Forest Law isnt good enough for a team like Liverpool

[Kikó]

Look at the screen = change your decision/do what the eye in the sky says.

Tierney also a dreadful ref so good to get away with 3 points.

Another thing I don't get is that if any outfield player makes the challenge on Rashford that Martinez did then they probably get sent off for being wildly out of control, regardless of getting the ball first. Keepers still seem free to maim at will as long as they get even a glancing touch on the ball.

Agree with you on that last paragraph. I thought the same, I'm ok generally with those tackles being allowed but it seems like it's only allowed by the goalie.

[niko_cee]

Which is sort of ironic as the goalie is invariably the biggest/heaviest player on the pitch and so probably the most dangerous person to be getting carte blanche.

Unai Simon casually smashing Robertson to bits earlier in the season another example.

[Shindig]

Just seen Leno's push on the ball boy. :D

[Giggles]

Completely missed that club world cup thing until a lad on Sky referenced it just there now.

[niko_cee]

Mitoma out for 6 weeks, Adingra out for 4.

:sick:

Guess that taking them out of Afcon (is Adingra in the Ivory Coast squad) and the Asian Cup a small solace as they were going to be unavailable anyway.

Christ knows who plays tomorrow though.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1740000219138576533

:lol:

[Waffdon]

Crystal Palace are the only team in the league who let Chelsea walkover them so will be interesting to see how Pochettino gives them their first win in nearly 2 months

[Manc]

Get an AFCON thread going Jimmy Floyd.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Taz cried a full ocean's worth of tears about Afcon discussion during the last one and I don't think we even had a separate thread, its own thread would send him over the edge.

Hard to look past the trio of Senegal, Morocco and Egypt for potential winners. Nigeria are not as good as they are on paper, and Chris Hughton's Ghana are tragic.

[Gray Fox]

The goal robot is still not repaired it seems. It sounds similar to what Curtis Jones was suffering with, but that took him a good half a year to properly shake off.

[Waffdon]

The most brain dread manager in the league by far. These subs and tactic changes are mental

[Manc]

Taz cried a full ocean's worth of tears about Afcon discussion during the last one and I don't think we even had a separate thread, its own thread would send him over the edge.

Hard to look past the trio of Senegal, Morocco and Egypt for potential winners. Nigeria are not as good as they are on paper, and Chris Hughton's Ghana are tragic.

No dark horse of the tournament?

[Waffdon]

Probably just about safe from relegation now. Probably much needed with Luton being on Saturday

[Jimmy Floyd]

No dark horse of the tournament?
Would say GNB but their draw isn't great.

[Don]

AC and AFCON running concurrently this time. Neither can warrant much interest until about semis.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

AFCON pisses all over the AC.

I'll be watching as much as I can of the AFCON.

[Don]

Bro, please, you've probably watched less than 2 hours of AC in your entire life. AFCON has better atmosphere and off the field drama, the rest AC is clear.

[Luke Emia]

I’ve only seen Obama’s as a screenshot. But you are telling me that’s a pen but Odergaard isn’t?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Iraq underdog run in 2007 was the only interesting thing that's happened in the Asian Cup. My one hope for it is that at some point Korea or Japan will assemble enough talent at the same time to sweep all before them and put in a statement performance, but there are so many nightmare Arab antics you have to fight your way past that it's a very difficult tournament to actually play well in. This one will be even worse as they are all fired up about Palestine.

Likely qfs:
Japan v UAE
Saudi v Aus
Iran v Korea
Qatar v Uzbek/Thailand

Based on that would guess Iran v Japan or Iran v Saudi final. Don't know if they had a transparent draw, but it's worked out extremely favourably for the hosts Qatar.

[John Arne]

Asian Cup is pretty bad, it's all about the U23 Asian Cup.


https://youtu.be/XUy5urR-IMU?si=h0TZXq3yjb3-6C1O

[John Arne]

Also, Leno is very lucky to get away with what he did. Granted, it was a very gentle push, but you really can't be putting your hands on young boys like that.

[Lofty]

Yeah you should boot them like Eden Hazard.

[niko_cee]

I’ve only seen Obama’s as a screenshot. But you are telling me that’s a pen but Odergaard isn’t?

I think the Odegaard one was just wrong and you have to move away from it being in anyway representative of the rule, despite PGMOL's bullshit to try to justify the decision.

Really what happened is the VAR got so bound up in natural position and all the other technical rulings that blight the field they've failed to step back and see he clearly scooped the ball away from an opponent with his hand, in a similar way to someone getting away with a cracking diving save maybe against Chelsea a while back where the need to consider natural arm position as one falls to the ground overrode the fact that the defender had made a belting save any keeper would have been proud of.

Onana's is always going to be given under the modern interpretation. Not least as it looked worse in real time, ie his arm looked very up and away from his body aven though it hit him in the armpit.

Thought the Chelsea one was dodgier having not been given but I can see why it was.

The real problem is the penalty rule is so arbitrary and punitive, and the VAR system only exacerbates the strange delineation of fouls 4 inches apart having super different outcomes. I don't think the original rule needs changing though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Penalty rule is one of the things (along with offside) that drives football being good. Make it any more favourable to defenders and they will get up to all kinds of cynical shit to stop attacks and prevent goals. The way it stands, if you have an attacker steaming in within 18 yards of goal the rules demand you do something quite skilful to stop them.

[niko_cee]

And are the areas that VAR has been most aimed at.

You could argue that the modern game has flipped the penalty situation with attackers getting up to all kinds of cynical shit to win penalties.

[niko_cee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67832071

:lol:

[Don]

I started waving my Iran flag at Brentford's game during their warm-up yesterday. Immediately a few stewards started phoning it in in a panic to ask David Baddiel if it was permitted. The response must have come back negative because after a couple mins, one young one comes and politely comes across to ask if I can put it away, just as I agree an older lady comes and requests I give it to her and collect it at the end. I ask what is the rule as there's so many flags allowed around the stadium, she states this is because of 'the conflict', that it's not Brentford but an EPL directive and that only flags affiliated with Brentford are allowed. A lot of bullshit, made even better by the fact there was as many Iranians as Englishmen in their XI. Lolled at it all with another Muzzy steward and we agreed that their time will come.

[Giggles]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67832071

:lol:

Dunphy tried to get them here at one time too. Though I'd suspect Blair might have had better pull.

https://www.the42.ie/the-dublin-dons-5365181-Feb2021/

[John Arne]

I started waving my Iran flag at Brentford's game during their warm-up yesterday. Immediately a few stewards started phoning it in in a panic to ask David Baddiel if it was permitted. The response must have come back negative because after a couple mins, one young one comes and politely comes across to ask if I can put it away, just as I agree an older lady comes and requests I give it to her and collect it at the end. I ask what is the rule as there's so many flags allowed around the stadium, she states this is because of 'the conflict', that it's not Brentford but an EPL directive and that only flags affiliated with Brentford are allowed. A lot of bullshit, made even better by the fact there was as many Iranians as Englishmen in their XI. Lolled at it all with another Muzzy steward and we agreed that their time will come.

That's legitimately fucked up.

[Giggles]

That's happening everywhere, clubs getting fined for it and all.

[Yevrah]

Has anyone in authority actually stopped to think about what we've done here? It's madness.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's known as tying yourself in knots. They should just allow all the Israel and Palestine flags.

[Spikey M]

Or everyone could just stop being attention seeking flag nonces. That'd be preferable.

[Gray Fox]

It was much better when people at the game only hated each other, and had fights for what team they supported. Not which bunch of terrorists they supported.

[Don]

As an Englishman, you can't be calling others terrorists any more lad, this isn't 2022.

[niko_cee]

I'll have to dig out my poofs for palestine flag for tonight.

[niko_cee]

Actually, considering the opponent [Spurs once accused Brighton fans of chanting Zeig Heil when they were chanting Seagulls] probably best not to for a number of reasons.

[Gray Fox]

Yeah and Spurs in no way have any connection to the Jewish community. I'm sure they'd be thrilled.

[Giggles]

Annoying Israelis should be a pastime at this stage.

[Lewis]

Actually, considering the opponent [Spurs once accused Brighton fans of chanting Zeig Heil when they were chanting Seagulls] probably best not to for a number of reasons.

I lolled out loud at that seagulls thing.

[John Arne]

Meanwhile, British-Indian bloke applies for job at Liverpool, asks for a high salary, doesn't get job = racism.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/dec/28/british-asian-man-sues-liverpool-fc-over-racial-discrimination

[niko_cee]

I don't care much for the nitty gritty of corporate filings but lol at the idea that 'Sir Jim' and the Ineos High Performance Brains Trust might turn United around only to have the Glazers force a sale [including of his/their stake] in 18 months, particularly if it were to the mercurial Sheikh Jassim. They seek him here, they seek him there . . .

[randomlegend]

Ratcliffe has first refusal on any sale.

So unless he wants out or someone offers such an absurd amount per share that he's not willing to match it (which it's already been made clear Qatar aren't willing to do), he's not being forced out.

[Shindig]

The problem with Taz's flag is it's entirely self-promotion. Like bringing a sign with your name on to a wrestling event.

[phonics]

All over them and then find a way to shit it up like 4 times.

[Gray Fox]

We put 5 past those jokers with a rotated team. Patience and the goals will flow.

[Lofty]

That ball was out surely.

[Waffdon]

The league is awful this year. City are absolutely pissing it.

[Giggles]

4th place Man City? Yeah, walking it.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

4th place Man City? Yeah, walking it.

Game in hand.

If they win it they move up to second (assuming Arsenal lose here) 2 points behind Liverpool.

[Giggles]

Game in hand.

If they win it they move up to second (assuming Arsenal lose here) 2 points behind Liverpool.

Not quite "pissing it" really is it?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I think they will end up "pissing it" but yeah, Waff has yet again shot his load early.

[Spikey M]

Spurs are getting the pasting that has been coming.

[Gray Fox]

I think they'll win it, but they wont piss it at all.

Arsenal are good but seem to have that mental frailty come the business end of a season. Liverpool are doing well too, considering they've had quite the injury list and did a complete midfield overhaul in the summer, but I fear no Salah in January/February could see a few vital points dropped.

[Manc]

Far too many nothing players in both sides. City will piss it.

Waff stealing my takes.

[phonics]

Love that they've given Clatternburg his own room so we looks like some sex offender that's not allowed to appear in court.

[Waffdon]

I think they'll win it, but they wont piss it at all.

Arsenal are good but seem to have that mental frailty come the business end of a season. Liverpool are doing well too, considering they've had quite the injury list and did a complete midfield overhaul in the summer, but I fear no Salah in January/February could see a few vital points dropped.

Arsenal are one of the only clubs who seem to have escaped any key injuries (unless we’re counting the rapist) and yet at best will be 1 point clear after tonight. Missed their opportunity again.

[Don]

Constant wanking over pixelated images and refereeing decisions, fucking end it already.

With no Paqueta, I presume Arsenal are going to shit their way to a win here again too.

[phonics]

Arsenal are one of the only clubs who seem to have escaped any key injuries (unless we’re counting the rapist) and yet at best will be 1 point clear after tonight. Missed their opportunity again.

Jesus was out for months, our 50 million fullback did his ACL in the first game. Tomiyasu has been out. Not sure where this 'no injuries' myth has come from but it's good to see Waff's up to date on the Twitter storylines.

[phonics]

People bang on about this Champion/McCoist commentary partnership and now we're having to hear about Ally on the underground. Just have a wank before the game lads.

[Waffdon]

Jesus was out for months, our 50 million fullback did his ACL in the first game. Tomiyasu has been out. Not sure where this 'no injuries' myth has come from but it's good to see Waff's up to date on the Twitter storylines.

You’ve just proved my point with that post. Jesus and Tomiasyu hahahah

[Shindig]

City have been without De Bruyne for the first half of the season. That's always been a big miss.

[Gray Fox]

The most encouraging thing from a Liverpool perspective is that we've done this well despite having 2/3rds of a front line that hasn't got going. We've also been without the best LB in the league since October and have had to regularly play Joe Gomez. While I don't think we'll win it, I really think we're only 1 or 2 players away now.

[phonics]

We truly are back. Great passing. Toothless in front of goal. Concede the only two chances the opposition creates.

[phonics]

Odegaard the only decent player tonight. My captain.

[Lofty]

You’ve just proved my point with that post. Jesus and Tomiasyu hahahah

Left back being down to Binchenko is significant just look at his last few performances and how he has been ruthlessly targeted with no solution to solve it due to the other 2 better options being injured, especially since the system relies on that LB being able to drift into midfield.

Doesn't excuse the wank finishing tonight like, ironically I think Havertz was a big miss for this one.

[Waffdon]

He was/is literally your first choice left back. Timber wasn’t signed to play left back (doubt he’s ever played there in his life before Arteta bunged him there) and Tomiasyu is a Japanese Joe Gomez

[niko_cee]

Spurs are getting the pasting that has been coming.

I was going to give Big Ange [IRL not that big] the benefit of the doubt and assume Bissouma must have been doing a heroic amount of work for them, as they were a mess without the ball tonight. When they had it they looked dangerous, if a little risky in possession, but when they didn't have it they were dire. Front 4 or 5 barely ever tracked back, mass disorganistion, holding the halfway line as per, I was surprised more teams hadn't smashed them this season if that's how they've been playing. Brighton, shorn of all their pace in attack, could have been 4 up at the break and but for a little bit of late game fucking about, it wouldn't be a Brighton game without at least one needlessly chucked in goal it would have been a proper humiliation.

That Hinshelwood kid is going to be mega.

Watching Udogie's position was fascinating too. Spurs have certainly got some mad things going on in the way they try to set up, but I think it might be a bit too wacky at times.

[Gray Fox]

"It's just the way we play, mate"

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm kind of on board with it. It's heritage Spurs, in a way.

Title is Liverpool or City, but we knew that.

[Lofty]

He was/is literally your first choice left back. Timber wasn’t signed to play left back (doubt he’s ever played there in his life before Arteta bunged him there) and Tomiasyu is a Japanese Joe Gomez

Apart from when Tomiyasu was starting ahead of him in big games and being rested for big games, and Timber played there in all his games when he was signed. The way you are saying it he can't possibly be a fullback, but Tomiyasu and White also play CB and full back :eyemouth:

[niko_cee]

"It's just the way we play, mate"

I'm well versed in stupidly high risk football, but even by the high standards I've been exposed to over the last few years Spurs are taking it too far.

Or their players just aren't good enough.

Richarlison had one of his trademark Amex stinkers, bless him. Shame they subbed him off as he was boiling for a good while and was clearly going to get sent off eventually.

[Waffdon]

Apart from when Tomiyasu was starting ahead of him in big games and being rested for big games, and Timber played there in all his games when he was signed. The way you are saying it he can't possibly be a fullback, but Tomiyasu and White also play CB and full back :eyemouth:

Timber is fine at right back. There’s a hell of a lot of difference playing left back though which he hasn’t played in unlike on the right.

Teams have had 8+ first team players out for weeks or even months at a time and Arsenal fans are greeting over Tomiyasu and Jesus missing games. Had it easy with injuries and have still managed to not pull away and if anything look much worse compared to at this point last year.

[Spikey M]

I'm well versed in stupidly high risk football, but even by the high standards I've been exposed to over the last few years Spurs are taking it too far.

Or their players just aren't good enough.

Richarlison had one of his trademark Amex stinkers, bless him. Shame they subbed him off as he was boiling for a good while and was clearly going to get sent off eventually.

It should be pointed out that they do have 10 first reamers out injured still, including their 2 first choice centre backs, amd they are either using full backs as centre backs or... Eric fucking Dier. They're also without Maddison, which is a big loss. I don't think the tactics matter all that much when you're up against that.

AFCON and the Asia Cup soon too, so that's Bissouma, Sarr and Son unavailable.

Spurs are in trouble unless they spend big in January and lol at anyone expecting that to happen. Big seethes are a-coming.

[niko_cee]

Yeah, yeah, everyone has injuries.

Brighton's injury list is as long as your arm and they've had Europe to deal with too so Ange coming out and saying Spurs are tired is a bit weak. Maybe if energy levels are a worry don't play such madcap football?

I was thinking the other day that the way to combat the almighty uberpressedfutbal might be to have stricter squad limits and force managers to treat the conservation of fitness as a priority.

That Spurs kit is also absolutely reprehensible.

Van Hecke is also turning into a right proper player at the back for Brighton.

[Lofty]

Timber is fine at right back. There’s a hell of a lot of difference playing left back though which he hasn’t played in unlike on the right.

Teams have had 8+ first team players out for weeks or even months at a time and Arsenal fans are greeting over Tomiyasu and Jesus missing games. Had it easy with injuries and have still managed to not pull away and if anything look much worse compared to at this point last year.

Looked worse in the last 5 games when they've only taken 7 points, the 5 games Japomez has been injured.

[Lewis]

Tojo Gomez.

[Waffdon]

Looked worse in the last 5 games when they've only taken 7 points, the 5 games Japomez has been injured.

Been good to average all season. Nicolas Jackson has more PL goals than Jesus and Martinelli combined ffs. Saka not far from being included in that with his measly 5 goals.

That set piece coach at Arsenal is definitely earning his money

[Lofty]

I do agree they need an out and out goalscorer. The idea is more of a controlled game rather than guns blazing goal fest apparently, before the form slide games were being controlled so the opposition barely had a shot on target in 90 minutes.

I think one problem is they wanted Watkins and Luiz from Villa but that won't be happening now. Maybe the slide and last night will convince the accountants to spunk some cash on a top striker.

[Waffdon]

1740572308652097951

Well it won’t be Oshimen as he’s up at 4am dreaming about joining a mid table club. :wub:

[niko_cee]

Arsenal relying on Saka, Martinelli and Jesus to get the same number of goals that they got last year was never going to work out all that well, even though they are good players. They just don't have enough goals in them across the team. It was purple patches all round last season.

Also lol at the accountant shade considering the amount of money Arsenal have been chucking around in recent years. Maybe don't spend £60m on Havertz if you need goals.

[randomlegend]

Everyone going on about injuries whilst giving United absolutely no leeway for having to play their 4th, 5th and 6th choice centre backs for the entire season so far is lol.