Putin On the Ritz

[Yevrah]

This really is an absolute shambles.

When I first heard of the idea it seemed a decent one, but fast forward to the actual announcement and I can't think of a worse way they could have done it.

Expecting people to 'find their own refugee(s)' is a disaster waiting to happen on numerous levels and even the charities that can/will be able to help appear to be sick of the deluge of calls from people only wanting a white Ukrainian one and not anybody on their books from the scores of other countries they deal with.

[Ben]

Of course it's a shambles. This Tory government only care about optics, so merely announcing the scheme was job done for them. Pretty much every scheme COVID-related too was a shambles for the same reason.

[Yevrah]

Apart from Furlough, which was the only one that really mattered during COVID.

[Ben]

Depends how you look at it. They hastily cobbled it together on the back of a fag packet and opened themselves to vast amounts of fraud that they couldn't recover (and indeed written off billions a few months ago), which is a direct consequence of being an entirely reactive Government.

On the other hand, countries like Austria already had worker protection schemes in place pre-COVID so just fell back on that.

[Lewis]

In a sensible world the state would just support refugees in neighbouring countries since 1) they are only meant to be there temporarily; and 2) it is much, much more cost effective to do so (David Cameron pointlessly driving a van load of fresh food there sums his political life up). But then in a sensible world we wouldn't have whipped ourselves into quite the state we have over this, so all bets are off really.

[Yevrah]

True, but it wasn't done for appearances/optics sake and the people who needed it got it.

[Yevrah]

In a sensible world the state would just support refugees in neighbouring countries since 1) they are only meant to be there temporarily; and 2) it is much, much more cost effective to do so (David Cameron pointlessly driving a van load of fresh food there sums his political life up). But then in a sensible world we wouldn't have whipped ourselves into quite the state we have over this, so all bets are off really.

That reminds me, I didn't even get onto the 'minimum 6 months, maximum 12' thing either. Even in the Western media World where Ukraine are winning this war there's not a hope in hell that Mariupol, for example, is going to be properly habitable within 12 months.

[Lewis]

In theory the minute fighting stops they can all just go back to the Ukraine, since they're fleeing imminent danger rather than temporary accommodation. Mariupol will probably end up part of Russia/autonomous clown show, which will see some sort of permanent exodus of ethnic Ukrainians, so this could end up being a great immigration scam (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/19/stranded-nigerians-accuse-uk-of-ignoring-pleas-of-black-refugees-fleeing-ukraine) for them.

[Magic]

They are white and some are highly trained. Some very decent prospects for employers in the current talent shortage.

[Boydy]

True, but it wasn't done for appearances/optics sake and the people who needed it got it.

Ask Smiffy about that.

[SincereTheRebel]

I haven't paid attention since day one. Has Russia won yet and have any of the Ukrainian boxers been gunned down?

[Yevrah]

I'd have Russia ahead on points, but as far as I know the Klitschko's are both still alive.

[Boydy]

1505588266157883397
:drool:

[phonics]

https://i.imgur.com/scBZ1HS.png

[Ben]

2017, am I missing something?

[Kikó]

Bannon is dead replaced by a body double. Wake up sheeple.

[Lewis]

To say foreign intelligence seems to know every Russian move well in advance, and I'm not saying they don't, how come they've been mugging us off for twenty years?

[niko_cee]

Do munitions have an expiry date? Or like other expensive things do you just stick a new date sticker on them if they get to their best before date? I only ask as it struck me the other day that if Russia has launched over a thousand missiles thus far [probably more now] what percentage of those are the average cost $2m-a-pop cruise missile varietals? It's billions in hardware going up the spout.

My other musing was is it legit within THE RULES OF WAR for NATO to enter on the Russian side but then just be really bad with their accuracy [ie going full Skaven for those in the know]?

[Lewis]

A lot of them are the old short-range ballistic missiles, which are cheap and they probably have warehouses full of. Ukraine have slung a few back as well.

[Manc]

The news coverage of this is looking a game of Risk.

[Kikó]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/ukraine-is-winning-war-russia/627121/

Someone needs to tell this guy that Russia have won (getting on my roflcopter).

[Yevrah]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/ukraine-is-winning-war-russia/627121/

Someone needs to tell this guy that Russia have won (getting on my roflcopter).


The failure of almost all of Russia’s airborne assaults

I genuinely do not know what World we are living in now. Have I died? Is the sky really blood red?

[Jimmy Floyd]

You seem to be in a mindset whereby Russian wins purely by continuing to attack. That's not how war works. If they don't make any progress, they are just throwing non-finite resources at a wall and it will become easier every day for Ukraine to defend against them or even counter-attack, as can already be seen around Kiev.

Terror bombings may kill civilians but they are only military effective if they break the defensive resistance, which has not happened. It's like saying the Luftwaffe were successful in the Blitz - they weren't.

[Yevrah]

How have they not made any progress? Does not taking Kyiv by now constitute no progress?

It's a genuine question, I've no real idea how long invading a country should take, but Ukraine is huge and has 200,000 soldiers, so months rather than weeks or even days (if that's the expectation) seems reasonable.

[Kikó]

You could read the article properly.

[Yevrah]

You could read the article properly.

I have, it's bizarre. To claim Ukraine are winning is one thing, but then to pretend the rest of the West aren't doing similar is another.

It also fails to mention what Biden's just been talking about in that Russia have more in their locker still to use, much more.

But good to know nobody can answer the question I posed above, a not at all needed piece of analysis when claiming the other side is winning.

[Lewis]

Their airborne assaults have been a bit crap, but that's more to do with parachute assaults having always been crap (yet weirdly entrenched and important across armed forces) rather than them being specifically useless. The rest of the article, you can sort of make the case for some of it, but, despite bemoaning people taking a Western approach to thinking about it, it still relies on some weird assumptions about what both sides are doing there.

[Disco]

Airborne assault is one of the best ways of killing your own troops, of course the ruskies are still on board with it. It is odd how we all still keep floating soldiers (and never actually use them) at least other obsolete stuff like tanks were actually useful at one point.

[niko_cee]

9800 dead and 16000 injured according to the 'just as planned' finger on the pulse media management boffins at the Kremlin.

[Spikey M]

Good news Jim.

1505994499696250880?t=MgLQ8qP9_nf60qQ0Ndasxw&s=19

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Should have just set them on some Russians ffs.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Good news Jim.

There were various bits of this madness I was going to pull-quote, but I've finally settled on this.


The team is heading back to Ukraine today as Russian forces continue their brutal invasion, which began 26 days ago.

‘We are heading back to Ukraine but red tape is making it difficult to move animals and aid across the border,’ Tim said.

‘We are hoping they remember us at the border crossing where we entered the country, as we had a lion and wolf with us. If we could tie up with a figure of authority that would make this far easier.’

Don't forget the alpacas, you stupid fucks.

[Waffdon]

1506404268441485322

The shopkeeper :D

Absolutely loving his life. GTA irl

[Spikey M]

Geezer :cool:

[Don]

That looked like proper fake news when I saw it last night.

[Kikó]

1506453063267241994?s=20&t=Z7uZEa_BWkomcxR5M3lCwg

More 4D chess from Vlad.

[Yevrah]

If that's verified then I'm far closer to joining the shambles camp and Putin's probably a step closer to using chemical weapons.

[niko_cee]

Never mind Vlad, sounds like Sadiq's been using them in East London today.

[Lewis]

1506719594051944449

Mellin buy us rubles and gold.

[Ben]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-60858999

"Hey everyone I'm still here!"

[niko_cee]

Macron's going to be seething at this photo of all the NATO mob where he's got his eyes closed and is looking the wrong way.

Edit, sad, it seems there is an alternative where they're all looking the right way [Boris looking a fat mess in both].

[Ben]

You can put lipstick on a pig...

[Waffdon]

1506902879239651333

They’re all slimy cunts

[Ben]

In the Chelsea thread there was an Alan Sugar tweet bleating about sanctions on Roman Abramovich and how it's not right because he's not the Russian state blah blah blah.

I said it then, and I'll say it again: it ultimately boils down to billionaires vs. the rest of us and it's the billionaires who will get their own way. Chelsea are case in point, not even three weeks and they're rolling back sanctions on the club.

[Waffdon]

1506746178096046087

[Boydy]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russian-commander-ukraine-colonel-medvedev-b2044161.html

:drool:

Back to Moscow and start a revolution now, lads.

[Yevrah]

With Ukraine now taking land back, I have to admit this is starting to look all a bit European Super League.

[Shindig]

"Lads, I need a purge of the military but that'd look real bad an obvious. Should I invade Ukraine and hopefully the purge will happen naturally?"

[niko_cee]

Is that Russia officially calling time on their attempts to make further territorial gains? How are the Ukrainians not just going to western military power the shit out of them on the eastern/southern front from this point on?

[Ben]

How do we know this isn't what Putin wanted?

[Shindig]

I don't even know any more. Isn't the whole fighting on the east done by amateur separatists that just get Russian backing? If he wanted that slice, he'd have sent his own guys with them.

[Lewis]

Much of what Ukraine had to start with has been smashed up, and what they have had success with up to now isn't going to be much use on the offensive if they want to expel Russian forces from the breakaway areas. If Russia are parked up in those bits then they can set up air defences etc. to blast any new aerial equipment out of the sky, and then they can keep probing/flattening elsewhere until whatever ends up happening.

[Ben]

Twitter reckons there's heavy fighting in Kherson and the Russians are no longer in full control.

[niko_cee]

Much of what Ukraine had to start with has been smashed up, and what they have had success with up to now isn't going to be much use on the offensive if they want to expel Russian forces from the breakaway areas. If Russia are parked up in those bits then they can set up air defences etc. to blast any new aerial equipment out of the sky, and then they can keep probing/flattening elsewhere until whatever ends up happening.

This is all well and good, but if 'The West' refuses to accept any resolution where Ukraine cedes territory [as this would be viewed as rewarding Russia's aggression] and therefore keeps going with the sanctions what's the next step then? Insisting on everyone wearing one of those stupid hats whilst making their [imaginary] rouble payments?

[phonics]

How seething do you think Graham Linehan is that he didn’t make the cut in Putins cancel culture speech.

[Boydy]

How seething do you think Graham Linehan is that he didn’t make the cut in Putins cancel culture speech.

He was crying on the Nolan Show on BBC1 NI on Wednesday night. :happycry:

[phonics]

His my wife left me stuff is the saddest thing I've ever heard. Graham, she left you because you were trying to catfish trans kids on Tinder. That's not cancel culture.

[Shindig]

Was he doing that to shag them or give them a stern telling off? Both?

[Lewis]

This is all well and good, but if 'The West' refuses to accept any resolution where Ukraine cedes territory [as this would be viewed as rewarding Russia's aggression] and therefore keeps going with the sanctions what's the next step then? Insisting on everyone wearing one of those stupid hats whilst making their [imaginary] rouble payments?

The problem will be if territorial 'concessions' conflates Crimea and the separatist areas. Taking non-NATO status as the absolute baseline, Russia would sell the separatists out (provided they get certain cultural/political guarantees) if it absolutely has to, as in they are about to fall to pieces without a quick deal; but it won't let Crimea go, and will go down swinging over it.

The long-term sanctions picture is the interesting one. In theory, if Ukraine signs a peace agreement with them then who are we to sanction them? The peace agreement would presumably have to be accompanied by Western guarantees to drop [most of] the 2022 sanctions as part of them endorsing it.

[Spikey M]

1507461130050052099?t=JIJ0WIKCYaIIyrD_GBiQpA&s=19

Top bods going missing and being killed left right and centre. :drool:

[Ben]

Purges are just another day in Russia. :D

[phonics]

Going to plan.

[Don]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/26/russia-ukraine-war-zelenskiy-hails-powerful-blows-by-ukrainian-army-as-russia-hints-at-scaling-back-offensive-live?page=with:block-623edeac8f0867da372193de#block-623edeac8f0867da372193de

Gammons fake newsing their way to comfort.

[Lofty]

His my wife left me stuff is the saddest thing I've ever heard. Graham, she left you because you were trying to catfish trans kids on Tinder. That's not cancel culture.

I think it was more just being addicted to arguing on twitter that sealed the deal.

[Boydy]

1508016837346398211

:lol:

[Shindig]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60886295


"If you're not fighting in someone else's street, does it end up in yours? Do my kids become a target? Do my mates' kids?"

No CJ. The answer's no. Not unless you brought them with you.

[Kikó]

Some chain reactions to Russia being shit
1507825644444467205?t=mu9GurUWBeH-6g3Si7ky-A&s=19

[Disco]

The Azeris also cut off gas and power to an entire region of Armenia then tried to claim the Armenians had done it to themselves.

[Kikó]

1508787161021227012?t=JR5JNAADM9iQUIqRyif2iw&s=19

More winning.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

This is probably what he wanted.

[Lewis]

The day it started I said they would eventually retreat back to their priority areas. I think they wanted Kiev, rather than the big convoy being some sort of clever distraction to draw forces away from the South East; but once they got in a position to assault it (flatten half of it and accept its surrender - they weren't going to fight building-to-building) the Ukrainians had reinforced it so much that they didn't fancy it, what with everywhere else being harder than expected, so it ended up fulfilling that role anyway.

'No plan survives contact with the enemy' and all that. Meanwhile, the peace talks are slowly going the Russian way. Non-alignment is in the bank, and they are open to some (admittedly unworkable at this stage) arrangement over Crimea.

[Spoonsky]

Worth it for completely tanking their global standing and uniting all of Europe against them?

[Lewis]

Most of the planet isn't even arsed, but yes.

[Yevrah]

Lewis, you're not playing ball with the Western narrative here.

[Boydy]

What does Russia see as the danger of Ukraine joining NATO anyway?

[Spikey M]

A massive border they could station troops along. At the moment they only share a Nato border with Latvia and Estonia.

[Lewis]

Plus missiles and missile defence systems. They should have called this the 'Ukrainian Missile Crisis' from the off and played for sympathy.

[Boydy]

A massive border they could station troops along. At the moment they only share a Nato border with Latvia and Estonia.

NATO aren't gonna attack them though are they?

Lewis too.

[Lewis]

Not likely, but still. You can't have these people in your front garden if you want to pretend you're a serious country.

[Spikey M]

NATO aren't gonna attack them though are they?

Lewis too.

We obviously don't think so, but if Russia, China, Japan, Korea, etc. Made a Treaty Organisation designed entirely around the objective of a unified response to British aggression, and they spent 50 years moving through Europe - despite promising not to - signing up Poland, Germany, Switzerland, etc, you would get a bit edgy. Especially if Ireland and France wanted a seat at the table too.

[Lewis]

Sounds like us and the Protocol get them fucking BOMBED.

[niko_cee]

The thing I don't get about all the just as planned big brained bullshit [cf page 1 where there is some pretty lolworthy shit on show] is

1 - wasn't Ukraine not joining NATO anyway?

2 - haven't they 'agreed' to tether their neutrality to a public vote/referendum? Also, didn't Russia sign some sort of International treaty saying they wouldn't attack Ukraine so lol at anyone standing by that propsect as some sort of cast iron guarantee of anything.


The Budapest Memorandum [1994]

1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

:happycry:

3 - wasn't Russia in de facto control of the 'separatist regions' anyway?

Seems like a lot of effort to go to for a land bridge to Crimea, which no one is going to accept as Russian [both Crimea and the 'land bridge']. Couldn't they just have built something over whatever bit of water separates in from the rest of Russia?

[Lewis]

The stuff about putting neutrality to a referendum will surely have to be junked, and I'm not sure who will be willing to guarantee it as well. You can't stop fighting a war today on the proviso that the voters endorse it three months from now. Matey will have to sign the country up to it, like an old fashioned peace treaty, and then live or die off the result.

[niko_cee]

'Guarantees' are worthless, as has been seen in this conflict. That might extend to NATO article 5, we've not really seen it tested have we?

Obviously there are quite a few reasons to take another course of action [not least pressure from 'the west' to end this thing asap] but hopefully the Ukrainians go full banzai and either fight for, or insist in the peace, on the full return of all their former territory, plus Sochi and that nice gaffe Putin has down that way.

Edit - a quick google to find out where the fuck Sochi is tells me they already have a road bridge to Crimea. What the fuck are they doing?

[Spikey M]

The NATO stuff is the "reasonable" side of his argument, but in reality Putin is just a Boomer that wants things back as they were during his prime, isn't he? He wants Ukraine because they had Ukraine. It's like a negative of Brexit. Fuck consequences.

[Lewis]

I called them 'guarantees' earlier in the thread, but, having since read more about it, the Budapest Memorandum was very clear about not actually guaranteeing anything. They just agreed to recognise current borders, gave their best wishes and didn't back them up, which is why the Ukrainians aren't making too big a deal about it now (and Russia will just call this self-defence anyway).

NATO Article 5 was invoked after 11/9, although half the countries then proceeded to phone it in in Afghanistan, refusing to leave their compounds or fight in the dark and all that, so maybe it hasn't been properly tested.

[Bernanke]

A massive border they could station troops along. At the moment they only share a Nato border with Latvia and Estonia.

It'll be interesting if the Finns actually make moves towards joining, because that's a hell of a long border as well as easy striking distance to St Petersburg.

https://i.imgur.com/3HHgKh8.png

https://i.imgur.com/JoLgzQ6.png

[Pen]

I think we will be joining. Us and you guys will join Nato together before the year ends.

[Ben]

The Russians have left Chernobyl, apparently because hunkering down in radioactive land isn't the best idea.

[Bernanke]

The Ukrainians seem to have managed to send two helicopters 40km into Russian territory to take out a fuel depot. The Russians are a complete shambles if that's true.

[Shindig]

The Russians have left Chernobyl, apparently because hunkering down in radioactive land isn't the best idea.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovggB_a9J0s

[niko_cee]

The Ukrainians seem to have managed to send two helicopters 40km into Russian territory to take out a fuel depot. The Russians are a complete shambles if that's true.

I assumed this would be referring to some sort of sortie into Russian occupied Ukrainian territory, but it was into actual Russia? Both quite funny and slightly alarming.

[Ben]

Belgorod. Actual Russia.

[Manc]

I assumed this would be referring to some sort of sortie into Russian occupied Ukrainian territory, but it was into actual Russia? Both quite funny and slightly alarming.

All part of the plan.

[Lewis]

Russia getting all indignant about it is funny.

[Yevrah]

The alleged strikes do not create "comfortable conditions" for peace talks, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says

You could lol yourself to death with that one.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Ukraine probably know they're winning and can win some more yet to get into a better spot for talks.

The geezer running their strategy (Arestovich? Something like that) is having some war.

[Spikey M]

You wouldn't want to be the fella that had to tell Putin about that Ukrainian attack, would you?

"Mr Putin, please do not Novichok the messenger here, but..."

[Kikó]

Ukraine probably know they're winning and can win some more yet to get into a better spot for talks.

The geezer running their strategy (Arestovich? Something like that) is having some war.

I think it's spelt Abramovic.

[Disco]

Worth noting that this has also happened to the Russians before, it ended up with the Beslan school siege/clusterfuck.

[Spikey M]

A school somewhere like Kursk would be more convenient for a Ukrainian version IMO.

[Shindig]

Worth noting that this has also happened to the Russians before, it ended up with the Beslan school siege/clusterfuck.

I seem to remember that being another great example of armed civilians causing shit to hit the fan.

[Lofty]

Anyone else having local hotels close to the public at short notice to house refugees and cancel a load of weddings? Two round here have done it, maximum seethe resulting.

[Spikey M]

No, but you have reminded me of an absolute dump of a hotel down Southend Seafront taking in Kosovan Refugees to fund their refurb back in the 90's. The (I presume) Labour funding must have been a tidy sum. Not sure why anyone would do it for what's being offered here.

[Giggles]

I was only reading a story in the last hour about a leisure centre being closed with no notice for that reason. Gym membership? Fuck off. Booking? Fuck off.

There’s been a huge amount of hotels cancelling on people lately too because they’re getting the handy government block bookings for it. Barely a hotel left in the country due to the governments desperation for an EU pat on the head. It’ll absolutely destroy the tourist industry and any business around them that relies on it.

[Lewis]

Budget hotels must have had a great couple of years. They shoved all the homeless in them during the lockdowns, and they've been taking Channel migrants ever since (and will be looking forward to a bumper crop this year).

[Giggles]

All hotels. You take a block of that long over any uncertainty and it’s gold. Can even charge the taxpayer when the place is ripped to shreds and left in shite. The only ones left will be those big income protected that the government are in the pockets of anyway.

[Lewis]

The homeless trashed several hotels round here. The Ibis ended up with a security fence and guards around it to keep dealers and other scummers out. It was like a decisive experiment in how not to help the homeless by just giving them houses.

[Giggles]

In fairness the Ukrainians won’t be bad, most refugees aren’t filthy middle easterns. Still helps nobody down the southwest though, and it’s a fair slap in the face to anyone who has spent years in direct provision here already.

[phonics]

Jesus. What a heinous post.

[7om]

Get that Lewis - Giggles exchange in the archive.

[Waffdon]

1509985789404459011

Christ

[Ben]

That’s fine. Bombing fuel depots is when the line is crossed.

[Giggles]

Jesus. What a heinous post.

I assume you’re doing lots.

[Bernanke]

1505824398275756035

:lol:

[Kikó]

The atrocities in Ukraine as Russia withdraw is absolutely awful. Rape and indiscriminate murder of weaponless civilians. I'm not sure how they can be accepted back into Western society without severe change.

[Lewis]

I saw somebody earlier imploring Zelenskyy to watch a 'Led By Donkeys' expose of the Conservative Party, so has it not all been worth it?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I saw somebody earlier imploring Zelenskyy to watch a 'Led By Donkeys' expose of the Conservative Party, so has it not all been worth it?

Are we the world champions of self-loathing? We must be up there.

[Giggles]

Are we the world champions of self-loathing? We must be up there.

Is there a fucking cry laughing emoji here or what? Fucking hell.

[Giggles]

Actually fuck me, but that’s the funniest thing I’ve ever read on here. Or probably anywhere.

[Lewis]

I think a lot of Remain Twitter is at the diminished responsibility stage by now. That has to reduce our average.

[niko_cee]

Actually fuck me, but that’s the funniest thing I’ve ever read on here. Or probably anywhere.

Your loathing is considered to be part of the self.

[niko_cee]

All quiet on the lol western narrative front at the moment it seems.

[Ben]

It'll be interesting to see how the Russians try to bot away the Bucha scenario.

[Yevrah]

All quiet on the lol western narrative front at the moment it seems.

Was only me saying that anyway, no? Must admit mind, it is all starting to look a bit European Super League.

[Lewis]

I'm sticking it out. Winning Team.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It'll be interesting to see how the Russians try to bot away the Bucha scenario.

State TV was saying earlier that it was the British planting fake bodies as we're the best at 'the information war'. Rule Britannia.

[Kikó]

Yep. It was actually Azov that murdered the collaborators. Azov is as widespread and prominent as antifa were in America, the bogeyman of bad behaviour.

[Spikey M]

Not a huge fan of us being the Russkie Public Enemy Number 1. It doesn't bode well if this shit does go sideways.

[Shindig]

Coming over here, poisoning our restaurants. All we did was spy on them with camera rocks.

[Pen]

Not a huge fan of us being the Russkie Public Enemy Number 1. It doesn't bode well if this shit does go sideways.
Surely America is their considered number one enemy.

[Raoul Duke]

Surely America is their considered number one enemy.

Only whilst there's a Dem in charge

[Foe]

Polish PM seems right up for a fight doesn’t he?

[phonics]

I mean they did assassinate his brother so you can see why.

[Lewis]

There is nothing to stop the Poles and other regional gimps from piling in. Hold-me-back merchants.

[Bernanke]

1511602598394085380

:happycry:

[Manc]

It's a good job Chernobyl is a hoax.

[Giggles]

Yeah, couldn't ever see that happening...


:uhoh:

1512804812508782601

[Jimmy Floyd]

Eradicating Irish culture wouldn't take long - just throw all the old U2 CDs in a skip - but the problem all such aggressor nations face is that you can't eradicate a nation/identity and attempting to do so usually makes it stronger. Lord knows many have tried.

[Lewis]

Apparently #FBPA is 'follow back progressive alliance'. That takes you back.

[Giggles]

Eradicating Irish culture wouldn't take long - just throw all the old U2 CDs in a skip - but the problem all such aggressor nations face is that you can't eradicate a nation/identity and attempting to do so usually makes it stronger. Lord knows many have tried.

Well what what what harrumph indeed. In fairness you're the poster boy for British blindness so you're probably forgiven for it being completly lost on you.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm just 'staunch'.

[Spikey M]

Yeah, couldn't ever see that happening...


:uhoh:

1512804812508782601

1512839753388933125?t=C4KgWwGHv1lYjUjhskucYw&s=19

I Mean, he did say as much himself.

[Giggles]

I'm just 'staunch'.

One would never have doubted that, but it is a lot better when people own that.

[Ben]

The last sentence of that tweet could well apply to most of the Russian population, they just aren't allowed to say it.

[Giggles]

1512839753388933125?t=C4KgWwGHv1lYjUjhskucYw&s=19

I Mean, he did say as much himself.

There's more than a few crazed brexiteers. If this forum is any indication in a small sampe size then it's a huge majority. Or maybe the knuckle draggers just like the internet or FM more or something.

Plus the second post was only a backtrack job after they got woken up.

[Lewis]

Literally nobody in this country wants to 'rule over the whole of Ireland'.

[Ben]

The whole of Ireland should rule themselves.

[Lewis]

Ironically the outcome most likely to lead to the fantasy island outcome in that deranged tweet, since there is absolutely no chance that the Irish would make any worthwhile concessions to British/Unionist identity, and our permanent government bureaucracy wouldn't stand up for them either.

[Giggles]

Literally nobody in this country wants to 'rule over the whole of Ireland'.

You've already tried that, and eradicated all that you could in the process. Things we'll never have, that's what you savages have left behind.

That's the whole point you blinkered fools. It's easy to look at the world as it is now and scoff at everything like Jimmy, but you've really left a trail of destruction of cultures behind you across the globe. Yet you still teach it to your young like you were educating the neanderthal locals. Even Germany were able to learn from their wrongs.

[Spikey M]

There's more than a few crazed brexiteers. If this forum is any indication in a small sampe size then it's a huge majority. Or maybe the knuckle draggers just like the internet or FM more or something.

Plus the second post was only a backtrack job after they got woken up.

I have literally, in all my years, never come across a British person that wants to take over Ireland. It's all forgotten over here. Most of the retards probably don't even know the history.

The far right nut jobs are far, far more likely to propose the construction of an 80 ft wall along the western coast of England / Wales, towing Scotland by Tug Boat to County Mayo and stapling it on. Little Englanders want Little England these days. Not empire.

[Boydy]

"If you remove the English Army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle., unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts will be in vain. England will still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs."

[Jimmy Floyd]

You'd still be blaming us when the Socialist Republic ran out of food too.

[Lewis]

The British destruction of Irish culture: successful enough to be complained about, not successful enough to have had any measurable degree of success after hundreds of years.

[Giggles]

I have literally, in all my years, never come across a British person that wants to take over Ireland. It's all forgotten over here. Most of the retards probably don't even know the history.

The far right nut jobs are far, far more likely to propose the construction of an 80 ft wall along the western coast of England / Wales, towing Scotland by Tug Boat to County Mayo and stapling it on. Little Englanders want Little England these days. Not empire.

Nobody is talking about the future. It's a comparison of what you did to what Russia is doing now. But I do believe you're all that short sighted from then '2 world wars and 1 world cup' education you all got.

[Giggles]

"If you remove the English Army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle., unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts will be in vain. England will still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs."

Not to mention they had made it illegal to practice the language, the religion, land ownership, and any form of education by that time.

I live a couple of hundred yards from a "Mass path" ,as they became known for other uses, where people had to sneak across to have any form of education in a field for fear of having their home burned to the ground if caught for daring to learn anything. That's "educating the ignorant tribes".

[Lewis]

There were briefly laws against Catholic education when several Catholic countries represented an existential threat to ours (all repealed two-hundred years ago), but nobody ever banned the language, religion, land ownership, or education generally. You must be short sighted from that 'two famines and no World Cup' education you all got.

[niko_cee]

It's all starting to add up.

[Giggles]

Eactly what I've said all along about what you've been reared on. Complete, though hardly surprising, lies. I suppose they don't teach you how handily you fucked up keeping the whole place either. Actually I'd be entertained to hear the British school version.

This is the way Russians will continue to teach this current invasion too.

[niko_cee]

There isn't one.

[Spikey M]

Eactly what I've said all along about what you've been reared on. Complete, though hardly surprising, lies. I suppose they don't teach you how handily you fucked up keeping the whole place either. Actually I'd be entertained to hear the British school version.

This is the way Russians will continue to teach this current invasion too.

There isn't a British School version. The only event after World War 2 is the Cold War and the only things happening pre World War 1 were the BRITISH Industrial Rovolution and various Royals in funny outfits.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There is no British school version (or wasn't when I was at school). Ireland isn't mentioned. I don't think the empire was in general, actually (I only went to GCSE). All the British stuff was Tudors and world wars, maybe a few Dickens-adjacent soppy takes on the Victorian era as well. Then the rest was Tony Blair walking you through 20th century dictators.

[niko_cee]

1066
Tudors and Stuarts
World War[s]
19th Century 'domestic' and [major] European

That's about all I remember from the history syllabus all the way up to A-Level.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There was also a fair amount of left wing shite. We did about three weeks on the Jarrow March. Luckily I think I got in before the race stuff really kicked off, it's probably all about American civil rights these days.

[thommo]

I remember some stuff on the Industrial Revolution but most of my GCSE education was based around the empires/factions leading into WW2 - namely how Hitler came to power or how the USA dealt with the Depression.

[niko_cee]

Ah yes, the Great Reform Act, the Corn Laws [good god], Sir Robert Peel and all that.

The Great Depression mostly covered in English Literature via Of Mice and Men.

[Lewis]

Eactly what I've said all along about what you've been reared on. Complete, though hardly surprising, lies. I suppose they don't teach you how handily you fucked up keeping the whole place either. Actually I'd be entertained to hear the British school version.

This is the way Russians will continue to teach this current invasion too.

Which laws 'made it illegal to practice the language, the religion, land ownership, and any form of education'? The only language laws, for example, banned early English colonists from engaging with it and gradually made English the language of law and government. Nobody banned the language ever. Why do you think they did?

[niko_cee]

Presumably Queen Victoria has bowled into County Kildare and unplugged the internet.



Is dócha go bhfuil an Bhanríon Victoria tar éis babhláil isteach i gContae Chill Dara agus an t-idirlíon dí-phlugáilte.

[Boydy]

I remember doing the potato famine in about second year of seconday school. We had to produce some sort of project on it in pairs, I think. We produced a little booklet on it in one of those platic wallet file things. I can't remember much other than my part of it included the cover page and I'd left it to the night before to finish it and back in those pre-broadband days, I just searched some clipart disc I had for potatoes and slapped a picture of a fucking baked potato with butter melting in it on the front because it was all I could find. Teacher must have thought I was taking the piss. :D

[Ben]

1513943691555188737

This is the guy Putin was going to install as President.

[Don]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/13/stop-matching-lone-female-ukraine-refugees-with-single-men-uk-told

Vintage gammon behaviour.

[Spikey M]

There has been some pretty unseemly shit going on at the border with Poland apparently. Women and Children getting picked up by Human Trafficking gangs. :sick:

[Disco]

Human trafficking or just Mahow trying to get home?

[Lewis]

I can see why they've been cracking down on/arresting these pro-Russian figures, what with the war and all, but at the same time it does sort of reinforce the idea that a still significant part of the population leans towards Russia, so parading them around seems a bit unwise.

[Boydy]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/putins-missing-defence-minister-suffers-26710991

Looks like he's purging some of his top lads.

[Kikó]

Feels like Putin is the manager United needs.

[niko_cee]

I see that boat that the Ukrainians definitely didn't hit with a missile of some sort has now sunk.

Always good when you can fall back on the idea of you accidentally blowing your own stuff up as a highly plausible excuse.

[Shindig]

Nah, they blamed the weather.

[Ben]

They're far more Mickey Mouse than they should be, given their size and history.

[Lewis]

Soviet submarines were very good when they weren't blowing up, which was more about their attitude to maintenance than the actual technology, but their surface fleet has always been honking. My colleague saw some Russian ships up close in the 2000s when we did naval exchanges. They all had to have ships cats, they were apparently all filthy with people in odd uniforms, and they hung cured meat from the mess ceiling like something out of the nineteenth century.

[Shindig]

Russia is not a developed nation in the traditional sense. They spent 80 years focusing on production and promoting factory owners into positions way beyond their expertise.

[Lewis]

Italy with eighty million apes attached.

[Bernanke]

https://youtu.be/yzGqp3R4Mx4

Russian navy in a nutshell.

[Disco]

Soviet submarines were very good when they weren't blowing up, which was more about their attitude to maintenance than the actual technology.

Apart from the decision to fuel their torpedoes with a substance that explodes on contact with water, cracking choice.

[Lewis]

Maintenance problem. They still use them.

[Spikey M]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61124291

Genuinely wondering why we (as in the whole world) don't just tell them to stop immediately of we turn their whole country into the world's biggest crater / pile of dirt.

[Shindig]

What, you mean start World War 3?

[Yevrah]

Looks like there may be a problem with those “rules of war”. Who’d have thought it?

[Spikey M]

What, you mean start World War 3?

China have pretty much said they're not getting involved so who would come to their rescue? North Korea? Laos?

[Yevrah]

I assumed the aversion to getting involved was down to Russia having nukes of their own, not that we were worried about China.

[Shindig]

China have pretty much said they're not getting involved so who would come to their rescue? North Korea? Laos?

They don't need rescuing. If there's a chance Russia gets obliterated, we get mutually assured destruction. Yev says as much.

[Kikó]

Looks like there may be a problem with those “rules of war”. Who’d have thought it?

What problem is this?

[Lewis]

The 'rules' have traditionally been little more than a way of stopping tit-for-tat cuntery escalating into a general state of it. With that in mind, the invaded party has more to gain from following them properly, because you can't possibly out-escalate the people with ready access to all of your people and property (so this (https://twitter.com/drewharwell/status/1514941871830835200) sort of psychotic shit shouldn't be encouraged).

[Spikey M]

I assumed the aversion to getting involved was down to Russia having nukes of their own, not that we were worried about China.

The only way we get WW3 is if China get involved. If all the proper countries in the world declared war in Russia they'd shit the bed in about half an hour. They'd have no chance. Even if they used their entire nuclear Arsenal. Which they wouldn't. And judging by the rest of their tech, is it likely to actually work anyway? It's a joke country.

[Lewis]

At the risk of being called a Putin shill, Ukraine is not worth flipping a coin on whether Russian nuclear weapons work properly.

[Disco]

What's gone on in Southend this morning to make Spikey this fatalistic, you'd need about five to work and we're all fucked.

[Spikey M]

Bunch of pussies. Get me in charge.

[Kikó]

Russia have threatened escalation a few times and it's an empty threat. They don't have the capability to do anything but hope to scare a few ponces like spikes.

[Spikey M]

Russia have threatened escalation a few times and it's an empty threat. They don't have the capability to do anything but hope to scare a few ponces like spikes.

That's the point I was making. :cab:

[Lewis]

All threats are empty until they aren't. Zelensky was still moaning about American invasion warnings spooking currency markets the week before it happened.

[Ben]

False flags in Moldova now.

[-james-]

Someone put a notice up in the foyer, "we have UKRANIANS here. Oleg, Maria and Aleks have just moved in to no four. PLEASE SAY HELLO!".

I've been chuckling at the thought of it all morning. I wonder if they were consulted.

[Spikey M]

The Venn Diagram of "People (non-sex offenders) taking in Ukrainians" and "Performative Virtue Signallers" is a perfect circle.

Living with them cunts may actually be worse than being stuck in a besieged steel factory.

[Giggles]

The Venn Diagram of "People (non-sex offenders) taking in Ukrainians" and "Performative Virtue Signallers" is a perfect circle.

Living with them cunts may actually be worse than being stuck in a besieged steel factory.

We had 5 figure numbers pledge to take them in and then about 95% reneged on it once they realised the had to actually do it and not just post on Instagram and Twitter about it.

[Spikey M]

:D I imagine it's much the same here.

[randomlegend]

My mum's offered to take a Ukrainian person/family. She couldn't be further from "performative virtue signaller".

[Spikey M]

You must take after your dad then.

[randomlegend]

Am I being accused of being a performative virtue signaller? That's certainly a new one.

[Spikey M]

That was the joke, yes.

[randomlegend]

I don't even have a Twitter account.

[Lewis]

John Caudwell getting newspaper spreads about the family he has taken in is 'performative virtue signalling'. Normal people taking them in is merely racist.

[Shindig]

Aye, opportunists looking for free money. And cheap labour.

[Giggles]

What’s going on with all this now? Haven’t heard a thing in ages.

[Ben]

Russia failing catastrophically yet simultaneously flattening eastern cities is clearly boring now.

[Spikey M]

What’s going on with all this now? Haven’t heard a thing in ages.

Russia are still shelling the same cities, but everyone is underground so it's not doing much. So it's a siege, basically, but with Aid being allowed in occasionally. So... yeah...not a siege.

[Kikó]

Russian soldiers have also been systemically raping and torturing people while their media pundits are threatening nuclear war on Finland and Sweden for trying to join NATO. They're looking to conscript more soldiers because they're losing shit loads.

[Manc]

All part of the plan.

[niko_cee]

:D

Beat me to it.

They're going to end up losing Crimea.

[Disco]

If this is a typical Russian conflict then we're probably into the attritional stage at which it's debatable if it's worse to be a civilian caught in the middle or in the Russian army. Interesting to see if they give up despite eventually nearly winning (see Finland) or get bogged down in a messy occupation (Afghanistan). Other countries seem to care a bit more about Ukraine than Georgia or Chechnya though so mildly humiliating climbdown could well be on the cards.

[Lewis]

Threatening Crimea is when the tactical nuclear weapons start flying around, so you would like to think that won't happen.

[Ben]

Looks like the Azov boys are finally surrendering, clearing the way for Russia to establish the south-east land corridor to Crimea. Meanwhile, Ukraine have pushed Russia right back to the border outside Kharkiv so the current landscape (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine.svg/1280px-2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine.svg.png) is probably where they will eventually agree on, although Kherson might remain spicy as it is predominantly ethnic Ukrainian.

Also, Turkey seem to have massive beef with Sweden and Finland for some reason and are going to oppose NATO membership.

[Shindig]

Turkey are just trying to keep Russia sweet.

[Ben]

Turkey are in NATO, though. He's just angry they're accommodating the Kurds so he can't off them all.

[Spikey M]

It's a real shame that coup against Erdogan failed.

It's more of a shame the EU didn't just treat Turkey as a friend, rather than pretending they give a fuck about their human rights record. But hey, buffer states are important. Unless you're NATO.

Politics is such a load of bollocks.

[Spikey M]

Turkey are in NATO, though. He's just angry they're accommodating the Kurds so he can't off them all.

That's the line. I suspect Shinners is closer to the truth. That EU refusal hurt Erdoğan and forced him to seek new friends. He is also incredibly petty.

And - unsurprisingly - "YouGov polls from 2016[164][162] and 2019 have found respondents from France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden and Finland to have the largest net opposition to Turkey's EU bid".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union

I would probably put 2 fingers up to them too if I were Erdogan.

[Ben]

Oh I've just read Turkey got sanctioned by the U.S. in 2019 for buying Russian missiles. That'll explain it. He wants the sanctions lifted before he plays ball.

[Spikey M]

They would have been buying good ol' Yankee gear from within the EU as well. :D

[Lewis]

Turkey are far more important to NATO than Finland and Sweden would be, so it seems like a pointless fight to pick either way.

[Waffdon]

1527092111195226114

:d

[Spikey M]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Ben]

Tremendous. :D

[Yevrah]

Shit like that is why I have such an issue with the West's take on this. I'd never been that arsed about the illegal war angle, but you absolutely can't sit there and moralise the shit out of Russia's actions when you have that blot on your copybook in recent memory.

[Spikey M]

Yep. That's been my take the whole way through. Fuck Putin, but Tony Blair and that mong still have their liberty so the high horse they're riding about on can fuck them up the arse as far as I'm concerned.

Not to mention Saudi Arabia currently using British made weapons to do the same shit in Yemen.

Fuck it all.

[Yevrah]

Indeed. I've never had a particularly high tolerance for hypocrisy based bullshit, but as I venture into my 40s it's genuinely through the floor.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You can moralise on the basis that the Western way of life is superior to theirs and is worth starting illegal wars to protect/spread. That isn't what we do, instead coating it in bullshit universalism (freedomz etc), but it would make more sense.

[hfswjyr]

1527092111195226114

:d

I can't even distinguish satire from the real thing anymore.

[Shindig]

It's George Bush. He used to flub his lines every week.

[Spikey M]

European War to World War confirmed. Here we go.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-61768875

[hfswjyr]

That's the same conversation that's been happening every year for the past 60+ years. Not really 'news' unless you count sabre rattling as news.

[Queenslander]

I just cant see China starting a full blown war against South East Asia, Australia, Japan, the seppos etc.

[Disco]

Have they won a war against anyone other than themselves in the last century?

[Queenslander]

That's a question that should be asked more often down here.

The Liberal Party are that desperate for a war against China they have convinced quite few people that they will invade at some point.

[Shindig]

"Crowded shopping centre hit - 13 dead." doesn't sound that crowded.

[Kikó]

Isn't it more 13 confirmed rather than final? Another good military target taken out by the Russians.

[Shindig]

Aye, I expect more to come but when you lead with that number, it sounds a bit daft.

[Lewis]

It's a weird missile strike that just immediately sets fire to the entire building whilst barely killing anyone in it.

[Don]

Horrific stuff, really. Rumours are it could be a war crime which of course is absolutely unacceptable in the eyes of the West.

[Yevrah]

The Western bunting appears to be softening over this and Putin doesn't appear to be stopping (I for one am shocked), so I wonder how long it'll be before the mood shifts and there's some encouragement for a settlement to happen.

[Ben]

Autumn I reckon.

[niko_cee]

Will all depend on whether zee europeans can figure out a way to ween themselves off Russian energy, which they were planning to do by the end of the year in some form or other.

I'm sure it must still make sense from an American perspective to just continue it as a proxy war to ruin Russia forever, but there are domestic political [good ole isolationism] considerations which might go against that.