Putin On the Ritz

[Spikey M]

Definitely one for a Skype meeting, this.

[Shindig]

I'd come strapped. Putin won't be present though. You just know he won't.

[Spikey M]

He's currently hiding in the Urals like a not at all turbo paranoid mess.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We all lolled at the comically long tables, but I think they're actually a massive tell as to his state of mind.

[Waffdon]

1498249421749948419

:d

[Spikey M]

https://m.jpost.com/international/article-698891

:D

I'm 90% sure the last 2 years have just been a long-troll by The Onion.

[Magic]

I'd come strapped. Putin won't be present though. You just know he won't.

You can't shoot Novichok.

[Shindig]

Yeah but you can shoot Putin.

[Spikey M]

I dunno, He's only little too.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Abramovich is a very complex figure. He may be big mates with Mad Vlad, but their interests are probably wildly divergent.

[Yevrah]

Abramovich is a very complex figure. He may be big mates with Mad Vlad, but their interests are probably wildly divergent.

You'd guess 20 years of living over here would mould those interests somewhat too.

Still, surely the most pointless set of talks in all of human history this.

[Ben]

1498161854614495232

[Jimmy Floyd]

You'd guess 20 years of living over here would mould those interests somewhat too.

Still, surely the most pointless set of talks in all of human history this.

He's probably less in step with us and more with the Israelis - who, by the way, are still refusing to condemn Russia, the turncoat bastards.

[Ben]

You can't talk about Israel like that!

[Spikey M]

1498161854614495232

:D

[Jimmy Floyd]

They are flattening Kharkiv at the moment. Every general will be done for war crimes.

[Magic]

Those high risers taking an absolute pummelling. Unless evacuated there must be huge civilian casualties...

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Shelling the shit out of a city whilst "peace" negotiations are taking place. Jesus.

[Ben]

The "peace talks" were the ruse they needed to escalate this way. They'll claim Ukraine were unreasonable so they had no choice.

[Magic]

Didn't a shipment/convoy arrive in Kharkiv yesterday that was purely focused on attacking convoys of thermobaric missile launchers?

[randomlegend]

The "peace talks" were the ruse they needed to escalate this way. They'll claim Ukraine were unreasonable so they had no choice.

I'm not sure that's a very convincing argument, given they could very clearly choose to just...y'know...not invade.

[Ben]

Too late, they're already there. That's why they sent thousands of troops over the border then decided to call for talks.

[Lewis]

You might want to ask yourself why this bothers you so much?

I think the conflict is stupid, and we are being even more stupid escalating it. When in a few weeks Ukraine agees not to join NATO everybody currently making out like we're in 1940, and trying to act like they think they would have done from the comfort of their wanking lair, will praise the sensible compromise that could have been reached years ago.

This side of things is just embarrassing. When the Americans were renaming French fries 'Freedom Fries' everyone pissed themselves and said they were mental, but here we are doing the same.

[Magic]

Liz Truss being blamed for Putin going nuclear. :harold:

[Yevrah]

They are flattening Kharkiv at the moment. Every general will be done for war crimes.

One wonders what the tipping point is for the West to get directly involved militarily, particularly given we're doing everything but at the moment.

[-james-]

1498272708559351814

Pretty shocking stuff. I know this happens all the time in the Middle East and stuff but white people actually live in Ukraine.

[Spikey M]

One wonders what the tipping point is for the West to get directly involved militarily, particularly given we're doing everything but at the moment.

I highly doubt there is a tipping point. Not outside of a Nato member being impacted or Nukes being used, anyway. Ukraine were refused access to Nato for precisely this reason. They knew this was coming.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think the conflict is stupid, and we are being even more stupid escalating it. When in a few weeks Ukraine agees not to join NATO everybody currently making out like we're in 1940, and trying to act like they think they would have done from the comfort of their wanking lair, will praise the sensible compromise that could have been reached years ago.

This side of things is just embarrassing. When the Americans were renaming French fries 'Freedom Fries' everyone pissed themselves and said they were mental, but here we are doing the same.

Is that not just a Cold War-era bipolar mindset? Given that only one geezer is flattening cities in a neighbouring state, I don't see why any other powers should respect its right to a 'sphere of influence' in respect of its neighbours. Russia is also only powerful in the sense of its nuclear deterrent, in every other respect it is a shitshow.

Speaking of which, the Chinese sound like they might pull the plug soon.

[Ben]

Liz Truss being blamed for Putin going nuclear. :harold:

She shouldn't have said what she said to be fair. We just need to maintain plausible deniability in this while supporting Ukraine and she did her level best to fuck it. Every time a Tory speaks outside of the carefully coached responses they manage to put their foot in it. Thick as mince.

Ben Wallace quickly walked that line back a bit and I'm sure Truss will be getting a barrage privately.

[Yevrah]

This is what I don't get, there is no plausible deniability. We're supplying defensive weapons to Ukraine and have rolled out sanctions that, in time, will suffocate Russia economically.

Is Putin really sat there saying "well, at least they haven't shot one of my planes down over Kharkiv".

And on Spikey's point, sure, they wanted to guard against this eventuality but setting up policies for a situation that may happen is a very different World from responding to something that is. It won't take many more videos' like James' or videos of the aftermath to bring the reality of that home.

[Ben]

It's the rules of warfare. If we aren't present in the combat zone and causing Russian casualties directly, then we're not an active participant. Truss basically giving her blessing publicly for Brits to go and pop a cap in some Russians is violating that and gives Putin a fair excuse to retaliate directly if he so chooses. For example, the Wagner Group are fair game if we wanted to take them out but they're so intertwined with the Russian military that we'd inevitably take out a few of them as well in the process. Then the game changes massively for us.

We shouldn't be surprised the Tories are making a few gaffes along the way, but we don't want to be inviting any unnecessary blowback.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'd say Ben Wallace is doing very well. Even Boris hasn't put his foot in it yet, though he has been a bit plodding and slow to react to things. Liz Truss is just deeply unintelligent (fucking REALLY deeply unintelligent, according to my sources at the heart of government). I don't understand how she is taken seriously.

[Ben]

You'll never get a level-headed opinion on the Tories out of me but Wallace is the best of a bad bunch, certainly.

[Disco]

We went half a century being satisfied with proxy conflicts against the Russians no way we change that stance now, even though it's relatively close and it's white people getting war crimed. It's also interesting to see peoples attitude to resisting foreign invasion/occupation now the mokba is on the other foot so to speak.

[Lewis]

Is that not just a Cold War-era bipolar mindset? Given that only one geezer is flattening cities in a neighbouring state, I don't see why any other powers should respect its right to a 'sphere of influence' in respect of its neighbours. Russia is also only powerful in the sense of its nuclear deterrent, in every other respect it is a shitshow.

Speaking of which, the Chinese sound like they might pull the plug soon.

I would call it a realist mindset. Russia might be a 'shitshow', but it is more than capable of getting its way and killing thousands of people, and no account appears to have been taken of that. Now here we are, with all of the people and organisations who made 'Chinese Taipei' a thing insisting on the rights of small countries to do as they like regardless of external factors.

[Alex]

I'm assuming the Liz Truss thing is in reference to her publicly endorsing any Britons who want to go to the Ukraine as ad hoc freedom fighters? Because when I read about that the other day I thought it was a moronic, irresponsible and completely unnecessary thing to say. She's an idiot.

[Ben]

That's the assumption. The Russians just said "not naming names but it was the British Foreign Minister" and to be honest Truss exhales so much hot air that it could be one of a few things that she said. However, that comment you refer to seems the most likely.

[Jimmy Floyd]

She's just done it again, saying sanctions should remain in place until all land is given back 'including Crimea'. She needs to be fired instantly for national security reasons.

[Don]

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/russia-ukraine-war-criticised-racism-western-coverage

:rasta:

[Lofty]

It'll transpire she is some kind of deepthroat queen behind closed doors.

[Raoul Duke]

It'll transpire she is some kind of deepthroat queen behind closed doors.

Phwoar!!!

[Waffdon]

https://i.ibb.co/7vXqzp1/8-AFA15-EC-7657-4-D9-D-BDBB-34-F0-D36-F18-B0.jpg

No you don’t

[Magic]

UK Rain.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/60560567


Football's world governing body Fifa and Europe's governing body Uefa have suspended Russian clubs and national teams from all competitions.

The move comes after the International Olympic Committee (IOC) recommended that Russian and Belarusian athletes and officials are banned from any organised international competitions.

It means the Russian men's team will not play their World Cup play-off matches next month and the women's team have been banned from this summer's European Championship.

Spartak Moscow have also been kicked out of the Europa League, while Uefa has ended its sponsorship with Russian energy giant Gazprom.

Took them long enough.

[Disco]

It's a pretty lol reaction when you think about it.

[Don]

Humans rights are more important than football. It's important they made that clear before Qatar 2022 gets underway.

[Spikey M]

:D

[Yevrah]

It's the rules of warfare. If we aren't present in the combat zone and causing Russian casualties directly, then we're not an active participant.

I feared the answer maybe something like this. To assume others are playing by the same rules you are is optimistic at best.

[Giggles]

Didn't the rules of warfare go out the window back when a load of lads on horses used to pick a time to meet in a field?

[Yevrah]

Didn't the rules of warfare go out the window back when a load of lads on horses used to pick a time to meet in a field?

This might be one of the few things we agree on Giggles, it's utterly nonsensical.

[Spikey M]

I get the aim of having "rules". We don't want Anthrax floating around and the wholesale murder of whatever minority that's currently to blame for all the worlds woes, but yeah - it's bollocks.

The winner gets to write the story and will airbrush out any shady shit. Hi Tony.

The Loser... is the fucking loser. They're in a world of shit whether they committed any war crimes or not.

[Lofty]

Exactly, for example the allies merrily raping their way across the continent in the latter stages of WW2.

[niko_cee]

I feared the answer maybe something like this. To assume others are playing by the same rules you are is optimistic at best.

What's the alternative? Some sort of MAD game theory where nuclear conflict is unavoidable because 'the other guy's a lunatic'?

Getting Vlad to retire to his Black Sea palace is the best end game for all sides.

Did the yanks ever make their missile shield fully working?

[Ben]

There are substantial laws of war. The Wikipedia page alone will keep you entertained for a while.

Obvious examples are not posing as the enemy and not using emergency response vehicles to gain entry to target zones, both of which the Russians have done already. But using similar underhand tactics “just because they did” is not a good reason.

[Spikey M]

What's the alternative? Some sort of MAD game theory where nuclear conflict is unavoidable because 'the other guy's a lunatic'?


The idea of Mutually Assured Destruction has been the plan for 70 odd years now and it still appears to be. If Russia didn't have Nukes we wouldn't be sat watching.

[niko_cee]

I was talking more mutually assured destruction through the Shafted (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafted) paradigm.




If, in the final round of this version, one contestant decided to shaft while the other contestant decided to share, the person who shafted would not only win all of the cash, but would get to play in the next game with the title of "Master Shafter".

:D

[Kikó]

It'll transpire she is some kind of deepthroat queen behind closed doors.

I have it on good authority she's a favourite of the back door entry.

[Lewis]

Is this (https://www.jpost.com/bds-threat/uk-to-outlaw-bds-in-the-following-months-conservative-mp-says-688753) still on the books?

[phonics]

Considering the Palestinian 8 year old shouting at Israeli solders who went to jail is currently being portrayed as a brave Ukrainian. Yes.

[Bernanke]

So now Ukrainian pilots are in Poland picking up fresh airplanes to return to combat with. This whole NATO vs. Russian forces thing is kinda silly isn't it? Like what is the practical difference here to some Polish dude taking the skies?

[Shindig]

I guess the theory is that the NATO resource pool is more of a token force. If Poland were to declare for this, they'd be sending proper numbers, basically.

[Bernanke]

I meant more as in what does it mean for forces to be engaged in official combat for something like article 5 to trigger. I get that NATO is "defensive", but if you can have fighter pilots take off from Warsaw to join engagements as long as at least part of their passport reads Ukrainian, and US troops wipe out Russian PMCs in Syria who were trained at Russian bases, you've taken the gray area to a ridiculous extrem.

[Ben]

Again, it’s law of war. Might not be sensical, but in real terms it means Poland, EU and NATO aren’t active. Putin just wants an excuse and while he doesn’t really play by the rules, he needs the other side to cross the lawful line too to have any sort of excuse to “retaliate”, hence stupid twats like Truss should zip it.

[Yevrah]

Again, it’s law of war. Might not be sensical, but in real terms it means Poland, EU and NATO aren’t active. Putin just wants an excuse and while he doesn’t really play by the rules, he needs the other side to cross the lawful line too to have any sort of excuse to “retaliate”, hence stupid twats like Truss should zip it.

The idea that there'd be any excuse for him launching a nuke or that Liz Truss could start WWIII is absolutely farcical.

"I wasn't going to push the button, but a British MP who likes it up the shitter has spoken strong to the motherland, launch the nukes"

[Shindig]

It does seem like day after day, they're sending bigger punches Kiev's way. Bald and bankrupt's out of there now. His video was surprisingly good although it was way too cheery for a man trying to get out of dodge. Especially when his previous video was, "Lol, let's visit the border and look at some old soviet soldiers."

[Waffdon]

1498421063339982849

How lovely

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1498421063339982849

How lovely

1498430393938329603

[Magic]

Apparently they used these already in Ukraine in 2016...

[Shindig]

The vacuum bomb in my imagination involved a lot more dust.

[Giggles]

What makes it a vacuum bomb? There’s not much in the video.

[Shindig]

I'm guessing there's a vacuum (a space without air) involved which is why the explosion domes out. Presumably the air rushes into the empty space allowing the explosion to quickly expand.

[Lewis]

It uses a lean fuel that requires the oxygen in the atmosphere to create an even bigger blast, and then pressure differential sucks the air out of everything and bursts any nearby lungs.

[Queenslander]

ROFL


Swimming Australia announces boycott of major event amid ‘appalling’ invasion

https://7news.com.au/sport/swimming/aust-swimmers-to-boycott-champs-in-russia-c-5866458

[niko_cee]

All this talk of military aid, someone somewhere needs to get the Ukranians a few A-10s to roll up these enormous columns of Russian armour. You could probably delete half of their armed forces with a few unopposed runs.

[Boydy]

(Former) General Sir Richard Barrons was on Newsnight earlier saying that NATO could have a serious decision to make by the end of the week regarding a no-fly zone if public opinion turns when we see Russia upping the slaughter of civilians in cities.

[Yevrah]

(Former) General Sir Richard Barrons was on Newsnight earlier saying that NATO could have a serious decision to make by the end of the week regarding a no-fly zone if public opinion turns when we see Russia upping the slaughter of civilians in cities.

Said this a few times over the course of the thread. The argument against it appears to be yet another example straight from the "rules of war" playbook, but as Barrons says, not sure how long that playbook holds up when grim as fuck images start emerging from Ukraine.

From the BBC now.


A huge convoy of Russian armour, about 40 miles long, is advancing on Ukraine's capital Kyiv, satellite images show

It's going to be an absolute bloodbath.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-waives-visa-requirements-for-foreigners-who-fight-russia-2022-2?r=US&IR=T

You don't need a visa if you fancy taking on some Russians.

[Spoonsky]

Time for your sequel.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I'm a lover not a fighter.

[Kikó]

1498430393938329603
From what I read, that was due to hitting a chemical plant/store. Same gear that blew to Beirut.

[Spikey M]

What makes it a vacuum bomb? There’s not much in the video.

It sucks oxygen from the air to fuel the explosion. Including the oxygen in your lungs if you're unlucky enough to be there. :sick:

[Giggles]

Is that in the video or do people just know by the explosion shape? All I seen was an explosion and a camera moving about a lot.

[Spikey M]

Is that in the video or do people just know by the explosion shape? All I seen was an explosion and a camera moving about a lot.

I've no idea. They said no the Radio this morning that they had used one and it was going to be "investigated" though. I don't know if that's the one though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Everyone calling for a no fly zone needs to be thrown in a pit to cool off for a bit.

If it really comes to it, get Zelensky out to form a government in exile, and sanction Russia to death over a period of years.

[Spikey M]

There's already a no fly zone, isn't there? Or do they want it extend to here?

[Jimmy Floyd]

There's already a no fly zone, isn't there? Or do they want it extend to here?

There is not a no fly zone.

[Ben]

If it really comes to it, get Zelensky out to form a government in exile, and sanction Russia to death over a period of years.

That seems the most likely outcome at this point.

[Spikey M]

There is not a no fly zone.

I saw this the other day 1497514109486653444?t=6l5Nr1EUG8Rb0fPCba4oQw&s=19

There certainly seems to me an informal one. I guess it's the airlines not wanting to get MH17'd.

[Kikó]

There's already a no fly zone, isn't there? Or do they want it extend to here?

There's a no fly zone for planes not involved in the conflict or more precisely, no neutral plane will go over that air space. Russian and Ukrainian air forces are active.

[Spikey M]

There's a no fly zone for planes not involved in the conflict or more precisely, no neutral plane will go over that air space. Russian and Ukrainian air forces are active.

So they want a no fly zone to stop Russia flying over and bombing them? I can see a slight flaw in this plan.

[Kikó]

And enforced by presumably NATO forces. You can see some factors that may make this escalate.

[Ben]

I saw this the other day 1497514109486653444?t=6l5Nr1EUG8Rb0fPCba4oQw&s=19

There certainly seems to me an informal one. I guess it's the airlines not wanting to get MH17'd.

That's commercial planes. It's not a strict no-fly zone, just a heavy dose of self-preservation when there's rockets flying about.

[Spikey M]

And enforced by presumably NATO forces. You can see some factors that may make this escalate.

Have they considered a Nato enforced No Invasion Zone?

[Lewis]

I think a lot of people think a no fly zone is just something we declare and then Russia has to abide by it. The general on Newsnight though fucking hell. Let's risk a nuclear exchange to save civilians. You can see how these people spent twenty years banging their heads against a wall in Afghanistan.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why is Tobias Ellwood going around cheering for one with a degree of desperation in his tone? Surely with both forces and political experience he should know better.

[Magic]

Biden is playing this superbly as we continue to embarrass ourselves on the global stage.

[Kikó]

1498539581603557376?t=6ZkT4m6VBbFyI2TVg1rfPA&s=19

This could be the vacuum bomb.

[Ben]

It's what we do. In terms of actions on this, we've actually been pretty good, actively helping Ukraine a lot longer than Germany for instance who were basically strongarmed into it. But fuck me, when Tories open their mouths, anything can happen.

[Magic]

It's what we do. In terms of actions on this, we've actually been pretty good, actively helping Ukraine a lot longer than Germany for instance who were basically strongarmed into it. But fuck me, when Tories open their mouths, anything can happen.

The masters of rhetoric.

[Ben]

Not that it'll make a difference, but in a semi-surprising move, Belarus have announced (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60542877?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=621dddef980bea49f4b7a8f9%26Belarus%20w ill%20not%20join%20invasion%20-%20Lukashenko%262022-03-01T08%3A55%3A17.041Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:a2a14e05-d11a-41dd-9eb7-9adf63ae1a2e&pinned_post_asset_id=621dddef980bea49f4b7a8f9&pinned_post_type=share) they're not taking part actively. Obviously they can just be lying to avoid sanctions, but the evidence will come pretty quick if they are indeed in Ukraine.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Of course they are taking part actively. Lukashenko will be shit scared of sanctions to a greater degree than Putin, because there was already a massive uprising there a couple of years ago.

[John Arne]

Ooff.

1498550217083396098

[Ben]

Strange that they're bringing attention to it, though. Everyone will be actively looking for Belarussians now, so it'll probably do more harm than good.

[Lewis]

Why is Tobias Ellwood going around cheering for one with a degree of desperation in his tone? Surely with both forces and political experience he should know better.

Because he's a dangerous idiot. If these people were in charge we would be too busy re-occupying Afghanistan to be doing anything here.

[Boydy]

1498598173757132805
Maybe they should bring him back into Downing Street.

[Lewis]

Putin shill earning his money.

[Boydy]

I've just ordered a hand crank radio and torch. #prepper

[Lofty]

I'm backing up my favourite pornos as hardcopy flip books, just in case.

[Giggles]

I better see if I still have those iodine tablets they sent out for Sellafield.

[Magic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojwVnJZxyho&t=16s

Fill your boots lads. :drool:

[Boydy]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340

This is an interesting read.

[Yevrah]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340

This is an interesting read.

Only just started reading it but this caught my attention.


We are already, she said, in the middle of a third World War, whether we’ve fully grasped it or not.

And in one sentence she's summed up my ham fisted attempts to summarise my feelings across many posts.

[Spikey M]

Only just started reading it but this caught my attention.



And in one sentence she's summed up my ham fisted attempts to summarise my feelings across many posts.

It really does depend on China. If they decide to stay out of it, then we're good. Russia are no match for Nato whatsoever and they know it.

If China decide now is the time to take Taiwan, then everything is about to get all kinds of fucked up and we will be begging for the halcyon days of lockdowns and distancing.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Trust TTH to make millions just as World War 3 kicks off.

[Don]

https://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4

Lecture from 2016 and good listening if you lack sympathy with the Russian cause.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Chinese will be facepalming themselves to death over this, because it's woken the West up and given it a free practice run at rapidly uniting and imposing sanctions on a country it's dependent on. The difference with China is that rather than energy it would be a range of consumer goods that we need to wean ourselves off.

Our office has a strict white/non-white divide on this. The non-whites are all, to a man, 'what about Iraq?'. It's a stupid argument but not really one that can be opposed without being called some form of racist, so I guess they'll have to have it.

[Giggles]

All my AliExpress stuff better land before China kick.

[Shindig]

But the Russians love our luxury goods. And the Chinese love our villages. It’s not a world without it.

[Lewis]

Fiona Hill is a crank who doesn't appear to have heard about the Cold War.

[Yevrah]

Fiona Hill is a crank who doesn't appear to have heard about the Cold War.

She uses those exact words in the article. :cab:

[Lewis]

She seems to think that the 'rules' were written up after the Second World War, which allows her to miss a lot of stuff out that would otherwise weaken her Hitler/Putin comparison that puts the cart before the horse, despite briefly allude to previous problems with Russia and NATO that would need addressing before moving straight into calling him a nut. The answers about what he plans to do to Ukraine are all over the place because she has to personalise it, and frame it in reference to his state of mind ('Putin watcher'), rather than look at it with any wider strategic sense.

Political analyst sent mad by the past few years. Many such cases!

[7om]

Political analyst sent mad by the past few years. Many such cases!

Sad!

[Lofty]

Ukraine Heads Have Gone: my brother in law is doing some ultra marathon and my other brother in law (his actual brother) had his car dealership company agree they would share the fundraising link on social media. But now they are not posting anything on social media out of respect for Ukraine.

[Lewis]

Hold on. Russia [accidentally] bombed a Holocaust memorial. This is serious now.

[Bernanke]

1498637938103566337

[Jimmy Floyd]

It hadn't occurred to me that big British acts (and Franz Ferdinand) go on Russian tours. I can't imagine thousands of ruskies bopping along to that.

'Good evening Smolensk!' *those stupid horns they have at football*

[Giggles]

Wars in the attention seeking social media age are fucking awful.

[Ian]

Is "wars were better back in the good old days" the most elderly possible sentiment?

[Shindig]

Don't worry, lads. I'm not sticking a Ukrainian flag on my profile.

And yes, 65daysofstatic's Russian tour is off. "We know Putin's aggressive invasion is not what all Russians want ..." If it's another one of their Deconstruction Theory gigs, they've missed nowt.

[Lewis]

1498718003822841864

Having a normal one.

[Shindig]

Russian column near Kyiv hampered by breakdowns

:D

It's kind of astonishing how, 30 years on from the dissolution of the Union, they're still using the same 40+ year old bollocks. Like a living time capsule.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Wars in the attention seeking social media age are fucking awful.

Also quite dangerous, given the propensity for the narrative to be affected by hysterical/emotional reactions by people who don't know anything, and the ability of basically the whole of Ukraine to scream for a no-fly zone/direct NATO intervention directly down their phones into our awkward faces.

[Shindig]

I've thought about this as well. BBC's anxiety piece just seems like a very dumb thing to put on the front page.

[Magic]

It's Bovid all over again.

[Spikey M]

Borld Bar Bree.

[Ben]

It's Bovid all over again.

You're not wrong. The media have struck gold twice in a row now getting everyone glued to their product in complete fear. They're making bank and the population are lapping it up. I wonder what's next, because there will need to be something, God forbid people remember what life used to be like.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1498726279494909957

[Yevrah]

There are times when I get the reality of this and then there are times when the whole thing just feels so unbelievably surreal/what in the actual fuck?

[Giggles]

We live in a world where everyone is desperate to be first with everything. So desperate they’ll make it up.

[Ben]

Most reports are saying it was an ammo depot rather than thermobaric. But then it could be a fake also.

[Kikó]

There are times when I get the reality of this and then there are times when the whole thing just feels so unbelievably surreal/what in the actual fuck?

Indeed. It's a complete mess and I'm struggling to see the end game.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I went into my old Covid 2020 era 'consume all the information' mode for a few days, as generally that's how I best make sense of things, but the horror has beaten me right back and I've gone as far as deleting twitter from my phone.

[Yevrah]

Indeed. It's a complete mess and I'm struggling to see the end game.

Me neither, which is why I keep coming back to us going to war.


I went into my old Covid 2020 era 'consume all the information' mode for a few days, as generally that's how I best make sense of things, but the horror has beaten me right back and I've gone as far as deleting twitter from my phone.

Did all roads point to some form of all out war beyond Ukraine and Russia?

[Luke Emia]

I went into my old Covid 2020 era 'consume all the information' mode for a few days, as generally that's how I best make sense of things, but the horror has beaten me right back and I've gone as far as deleting twitter from my phone.

Exactly that. Some of the stuff I have read or seen the past few days is so depressing and I'm not normally one for being too shaken by these types of things.

In other news our Eastern European mortgage broker was back in the office today having been back to Latvia last week. She told me 'All Putin is doing is getting the Americans out of Ukraine.' She also told me that life was better when Latvia was part of the Soviet Union. I don't know how many times I have told her if she lived in a communist country like the good old days she wouldn't have a job but she's not having any of it.

[Luke Emia]

Indeed. It's a complete mess and I'm struggling to see the end game.

This is it what does he think he is going to achieve? He can take out the government but surely he can't control a country of 50 million people that doesn't want him there? They have already shown they aren't the French and aren't just going to roll over. It could just end up as another forever war.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Did all roads point to some form of all out war beyond Ukraine and Russia?

I don't know where all roads point - probably to Moscow eventually winning the very ugliest of military victories, proving utterly unable to run what's left of Ukraine, and an eventual coup against Putin. I think what may save us from wider war is that western intelligence is light years ahead of the game, and possibly China could pull the plug once the Russian economy collapses in a way that affects them.

Oh and he'll probably seize Moldova while he's at it.

Either way, I'm better off devoting my mental energies to happier things.

[Lewis]

I am right into it all. I come for the analysis, but stay for the #FBPE freaks thinking we've done nothing and calling Boris Johnson out for not wanting a nuclear war.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I am right into it all. I come for the analysis, but stay for the #FBPE freaks thinking we've done nothing and calling Boris Johnson out for not wanting a nuclear war.

The shrillness of that lot is the worst thing. Actually, no, Putin sock puppets are the worst thing. But those are the second worst.

[Spikey M]

The best thing (every cloud) about this has been the deafening silence from the Feminist and Trans community, unified once more in cowardice. Not much protest in the face of this "all men under 65 must stay and fight" rule, is there? What about their equal rights?

[Shindig]

Just wait til a transwoman gets consripted.

[Lewis]

1498719849748611072

Got you covered.

[Don]

That's fantastic. As if that's not a sketch.

[Shindig]

"Ukraine is not a rainbow friendly country." is a line.

[-james-]

I went into my old Covid 2020 era 'consume all the information' mode for a few days, as generally that's how I best make sense of things, but the horror has beaten me right back and I've gone as far as deleting twitter from my phone.

Yeah pretty much. I don't think I've ever experienced despair at current events like this. It's so grim.

[Don]

Gammons in tears at a 3-figure death toll. Is this how bacon is made?

[Lewis]

I'm sorry to say Don but this is yet more racism.

[Lewis]

Hey speaking of which:

1498698958377521155

:violin:

[Waffdon]

Big Roman will be fuming at that. He loves an anti semitism rant.

[John Arne]

Anonymous claim to have taken control on the control centre of the Russian Space Agency :drool:

1498821770756907013

[Ben]

What a world we live in where a national space agency is getting disabled by a "w0rd to th3 homiez" gang.

[Spikey M]

1498719849748611072

Got you covered.

The replies. :drool:

Top work.

[Ben]

1498757648774320132

Thank you France, I guess.

I wonder what the reason was for our Government not directly banning them is.

[Spikey M]

They probably have less viewers than GB News.

[Ben]

Impossible.

[Lofty]

The mental young lad who gave me that coffee machine is adamant he is going to Ukraine as a volunteer, trying to dissuade him but it's hard work :moop:

[Giggles]

The cleaner asked me what I think about the war this morning but I hadn't a clue where he was from :uhoh:

I just said I was far too busy to see any news.

[Ben]

One of the buyers at my work is genuinely shitting it about us getting involved and him being conscripted.

We also have a Russian division in Moscow. Some of them there work in IT security. :eyemouth:

[Ben]

Kherson has fallen. Not surprising that it is the first because it's directly over from Crimea, but it's nearly exclusively Ukrainian ethnic/language so the eventual insurgency will be fun.

[Magic]

One of the buyers at my work is genuinely shitting it about us getting involved and him being conscripted.

We also have a Russian division in Moscow. Some of them there work in IT security. :eyemouth:

Grown men that have been afraid to breathe air for the past two years? We're doomed.

[Lofty]

If there was conscription the tears of the covid key worker mob would ease the pain.

[Shindig]

The mental young lad who gave me that coffee machine is adamant he is going to Ukraine as a volunteer, trying to dissuade him but it's hard work :moop:

You really need to start over.

[Ben]

Sberbank down another 95% today on the LSE. They were trading above 20 in October, now at 0.01.

No wonder they're not opening MOEX.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You've seen how much pain the ruskies have taken trying to invade Ukraine, even the crap standing armies of NATO would pummel them into oblivion in a conventional war scenario. A conscript army can be saved for when the French land in Eastbourne.

[Magic]

Masterplan: overwhelm EU with refugees.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Limiting my intake of news now but the biggest fallacy I'm seeing is our pundits (by 'our' I mean also Ukraine and the entire West) massively overestimating the Russian people's capacity for protest after the impact of sanctions bites. Even if one assumes that a majority would be instinctively anti-war, which is by no means certain, this is one of the weakest civil societies in the world. They will accept basically anything, short of 1917-style mass starvation, because that is how things have always been.

Random prediction that comes to mind is that if and when they return to football, it will be in the AFC and not UEFA.

[Disco]

Also conveniently forgetting that last time we extrajudicially invaded someone we had one of the largest demonstrations we've ever seen and it made fuck all difference.

[Ben]

Amusing how the British people are assuming protests will just happen. If it was the French then fair enough.

[Jimmy Floyd]

On the other hand, I have no idea how Putin is proposing to actually control Ukraine if and when he takes it. Surely basically impossible.

[Ben]

I read earlier they're ready to drop in Yanukovych as their puppet. That will go down brilliantly with the Ukrainians.

[Disco]

Belarus mk2.

[Spikey M]

From the reading I've done, the main reason for all this is because NATO broke their pact not to move east after the reunification of Germany. NATO have done so regardless, several times since then and the Russians have always been turbo-twitchy about enemies at the border.

They let a couple of border countries slide, but Ukraine takes up a big chunk of border and would allow for a huge NATO build up, so he's trying to take Ukraine to keep that buffer in place.

I don't think he actually wants Ukraine. Not really, anyway. He just doesn't want NATO on his doorstep. This is what makes this all the more annoying. It's incredibly petty unless Putin thinks NATO were planning to declare war on Russia for some reason.Which - if he does think that - makes starting a war with a prospective NATO member a fucking ridiculous idea.

He isn't a stupid man, but all of this has been stupidity of the highest order. I suspect this is part of the problem with having a load of underlings that are to scared to tell you the truth. That video of him toying with one of them when they kept fumbling his questions spoke volumes.

[Ben]

While I think there's a bit of that, there's also the situation of still wanting to use Ukraine's gas pipelines to Europe but without having to pay anti-Russia Zelenskyy in the process, as well as restore the waterway to Crimea and tap into the vast natural resources they've recently discovered.

[-james-]

Everton have suspended their commercial sponsorship arrangements with Russian companies owned by Alisher Usmanov following the invasion of Ukraine.

:lol:

[Giggles]

Is that not what everyone has been doing for the past week, or am I missing some other hilarity in the Everton deals?

[7om]

https://old.reddit.com/r/MemeEconomy/comments/t4zgiq/putin_gets_irritated_during_meeting/

[Bam]

:D

[Lewis]

The Ukrainian armed forces appear to have said - out loud, in public - that they won't be taking any artillerymen prisoner. Now, war crimes aside, that strikes me as somewhat counter-productive when they're essentially depending on the Russians being less up for it than them.

[Shindig]

Where would they store them? Everything explodes.

[Spoonsky]

I went into my old Covid 2020 era 'consume all the information' mode for a few days, as generally that's how I best make sense of things, but the horror has beaten me right back and I've gone as far as deleting twitter from my phone.

Pretty much same here. I really don't think society (myself included) is prepared at all for what this kind of war looks like, or even for the timespan in which it unfolds.

[Giggles]

Where would they store them? Everything explodes.

Should do away with them. It’s a war.

[Ian]

The Ukrainian armed forces appear to have said - out loud, in public - that they won't be taking any artillerymen prisoner. Now, war crimes aside, that strikes me as somewhat counter-productive when they're essentially depending on the Russians being less up for it than them.

Yeah they appear to have started reading from the badguyscript.pdf by accident there.

And as you say, just not very bright if they're hoping to de-escalate this whole thing.

[Boydy]

Stephen Nolan's BBC1 NI show was doing Ukraine tonight. Seems like the general public is gagging for World War 3 and nuclear annihilation.

[niko_cee]

And as you say, just not very bright if they're hoping to de-escalate this whole thing.

Whilst I sort of get the point, I also see the other side where the Ukranians are going that we're well past the point of 'de-escalation' here [like that old lady shouting at the Russian solider "how could things get worse"].

1,2,3,4 I declare a conventional war, there you go NATO, easy peasy.

I find it hard to believe that there isn't some sort of big brain technology knocking about that knows where all the subs are. I mean, every pice of modern hi-tech military equipment seems to be 40 years old in terms of conception, so what have they been ding for 40 years?

[Lewis]

Making submarines quieter.

[Lewis]

Stephen Nolan's BBC1 NI show was doing Ukraine tonight. Seems like the general public is gagging for World War 3 and nuclear annihilation.

If Russia was as good at Facebook as they say it would be spamming it with stories about impending house price crashes.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://twitter.com/real_lord_miles

That twat who went to Afghanistan is in Ukraine.

[Kikó]

That rebrand is good work. Must be for the just giving. "Catholic, aid worker", yeah right.

[Lofty]

Making submarines quieter.

Exactly, supposedly the Astute class of submarines are so quiet if one was in (an appropriately sized) swimming pool with you, you wouldn't know it.

[Spikey M]

Pretty much same here. I really don't think society (myself included) is prepared at all for what this kind of war looks like, or even for the timespan in which it unfolds.

You guys only turn up for the last couple of days, so I wouldn't worry about it.

[Ben]

Stephen Nolan's BBC1 NI show was doing Ukraine tonight. Seems like the general public is gagging for World War 3 and nuclear annihilation.

Easy to say from an armchair. Their balls would soon ascend into their body if the Government ordered conscription.

[Ben]

1499178965218603012

Apparently this is a gas plant going boom.

[Spikey M]

Easy to say from an armchair. Their balls would soon ascend into their body if the Government ordered conscription.

Predictably it's Betty and Mildred doing the hawking. Not people that would actually have to go.

[SincereTheRebel]

It's a beautiful thing to see the Ukrainian boxers prepared to be on the front line. Allegedly. Surely at least one of them will end up in the dirt?

[Don]

Or all of them are just being used without being put in harm's way to get youngsters to give their lives away.

[Spikey M]

Spoken like the son of a deserter.

[Shindig]

Given how much space is in care homes, they'd make perfect ammunition dumps. Also, I spent some time on the Bomb Census last night just to see if any World War 2 bombings got this far north. They did for about a day in 1942.

[Ben]

We're fine mate. Everyone thinks we're wasteland anyway so why would they bother firing bombs this far north?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Down here you can still see bomb evidence quite widely if you're looking for it. Unexplained bowls in the ground, old walls with sections knocked out, that sort of thing.

[Shindig]

I'm just surprised the shipbuilding parts were largely untouched.

[Spikey M]

Down here you can still see bomb evidence quite widely if you're looking for it. Unexplained bowls in the ground, old walls with sections knocked out, that sort of thing.

We even give them cute names like "Canvey" and "Kent".

[Shindig]

"Bombed out? No, it's terraformed."

[Ben]

1499307988930252802

Russia fired a missile at a non-military Bangladeshi vessel.

[niko_cee]

I think you'll find that was a precision strike on a military target.

Just using standard Russian precision.

[Don]

Not like that nice modern civilised US precision. Get your fucking head out of the Hollywood movies, you dirty gammons.

[niko_cee]

Given your track record on things the last thing Vlad wants is any sort of endorsement.

[SincereTheRebel]

Given how much space is in care homes, they'd make perfect ammunition dumps. Also, I spent some time on the Bomb Census last night just to see if any World War 2 bombings got this far north. They did for about a day in 1942.

Where did you find this intel?

[Spikey M]

He got it from The Office Of Data That's Irrelevant In the Modern World.

[Lewis]

Exactly, supposedly the Astute class of submarines are so quiet if one was in (an appropriately sized) swimming pool with you, you wouldn't know it.

People lol when they collide but it's actually surprising that it doesn't happen more often. They're incredible things.

Meanwhile, the Ukrainians getting increasingly seethy about our unwillingness to go to war for them ought to be a bit of a wake-up call. It's not much of a war for self-determination if you explicitly need other people to win it for you.

[Ben]

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians

Putin's thoughts on Ukraine and Ukrainians, if anyone is interested. A good insight into why he's doing this and his end goal.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That multiple thousand words of shite can basically be surmised as 'I grew up in the USSR and several countries since declared independence from it, waaah waaah waaah'.

[Spikey M]

Anyone noticed the increase in war films on Netflix? Including Kursk: The Last Mission? :sherlock: :lurch:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Meanwhile, the Ukrainians getting increasingly seethy about our unwillingness to go to war for them ought to be a bit of a wake-up call. It's not much of a war for self-determination if you explicitly need other people to win it for you.

This is the central tension that could work for Putin if it breaks, both we and the Ukrainians need to remain as calm-headed as possible and sit tight (fight tight, in their case, but that's just how the cookie crumbles) waiting for the Russian economy to collapse to a degree that I don't think they are aware is coming.

Putin will probably need to shut the borders USSR style to prevent mass flight.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

In Poland they're Freedom Friesing it up.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FM62MboWYAMX6Fu?format=jpg

Pierogi Ruskie (potato and cottage cheese filling) are being re-named to Pierogi Ukraińskie.

[Yevrah]

I can't see how the Ukranians can win this one, they're massively outnumbered in every respect and will bleed out over time. Sanctions won't work quickly enough to deter Russia who'd presumably factored them into their planning anyway. So the only question remaining really is what a Russian occupied Ukraine looks like and I'm guessing 'grim' is the answer.

[Spikey M]

In Poland they're Freedom Friesing it up.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FM62MboWYAMX6Fu?format=jpg

Pierogi Ruskie (potato and cottage cheese filling) are being re-named to Pierogi Ukraińskie.

:D

[Jimmy Floyd]

Putin will have underestimated the severity of the sanctions and the degree of western unity. You can see from the essay above the sort of weirdo he's becoming (this is Heads Have Gone To War). He wouldn't have banked on, for example, Germany completely reversing their last 80 years of foreign and defence policy overnight.

I've seen serious opinions that suggest that, for example, they won't be able to continue domestic air travel in a month's time.

[Spikey M]

I can't see how the Ukranians can win this one, they're massively outnumbered in every respect and will bleed out over time. Sanctions won't work quickly enough to deter Russia who'd presumably factored them into their planning anyway. So the only question remaining really is what a Russian occupied Ukraine looks like and I'm guessing 'grim' is the answer.

This is my take on it too. Russia are only using about 10% of their army and they're still making decent progress even if there is the odd shambles.

I think the Sanctions will bite pretty hard, but we're talking about a nation that looks back on the time they were all starving to death with pride.

Afghanistan part 2 is going to be the outcome if the west stays out of it.

[Magic]

They've sunk an Estonian cargo ship apparently.

[Don]

Estonia are fairly blond and blue-eyed aren't they? I'll await location details of the vigil.

[Ben]

The coup d'état and the subsequent actions of the Kiev authorities inevitably provoked confrontation and civil war. The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights estimates that the total number of victims in the conflict in Donbas has exceeded 13,000. Among them are the elderly and children. These are terrible, irreparable losses.

Vladimir Putin, 2021

Oh the irony.

[Boydy]

1499018156597198854

:lol:

[Giggles]

Estonia are fairly blond and blue-eyed aren't they? I'll await location details of the vigil.

When are your lot wading in anyway?

[Spikey M]

1499018156597198854

:lol:

:D That'll teach 'em

[Jimmy Floyd]

Chicken kievs being changed to chicken kyiv is the absolute apex of virtue signalling, I think. No way it gets any sillier from here.

[Spikey M]

Someone, somewhere will be smashing up their Russian Dolls, I'm sure.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://twitter.com/kimwillsher1/status/1499392485197451268

I can only imagine the glee in one's soul when your PA comes in and says 'I've got President Putin on line 3, he's ready for a 90-minute chat'.

[Magic]

Maskron: "You're lying to yourself" :harold:

[Ben]

Chicken kievs being changed to chicken kyiv is the absolute apex of virtue signalling, I think. No way it gets any sillier from here.

At least people are using the correct spelling now after decades of typing "Kiev, The Ukraine" so every cloud.

[Yevrah]

Kiev is the correct spelling for us, as is the associated pronunciation. Should we be calling the capital of France Pa-ree?

[Ben]

Nope. Kiev is the Russian transliteration. Kyiv is the Ukrainian transliteration.

[Magic]

You really ought to be saying 'Hark-iv' for true apex signalling.

[Spikey M]

Hopefully Argentina try to take the Falklands again so everyone has to stop calling us Anglaterra.

[Yevrah]

Nope. Kiev is the Russian transliteration. Kyiv is the Ukrainian transliteration.

I stand corrected.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1499018156597198854

:lol:

Sanctions hitting HARD now, Russia are fucked.

[Lewis]

This is the central tension that could work for Putin if it breaks, both we and the Ukrainians need to remain as calm-headed as possible and sit tight (fight tight, in their case, but that's just how the cookie crumbles) waiting for the Russian economy to collapse to a degree that I don't think they are aware is coming.

Putin will probably need to shut the borders USSR style to prevent mass flight.

The economic sanctions have gone further/quicker than I expected (I didn't even consider the idiotic cultural ones), which would accelerate what I said before about them being better placed than us in the short-to-medium term. In the event that they 'collapse' to the point where their war effort goes with it, however, then they retaliate and we all go down with them. The West could just about manage with another quid on petrol (especially if the elite bloodlust keeps up), but the developing world tearing itself to pieces over bread prices is another consideration.

As for fighting, I saw something earlier about this lasting ten years. Ukraine aren't fighting this for ten months let alone ten years (ten more weeks would be a surprise). The Afghans lost ten fighters to every Soviet, and about fifteen per cent of their population. And they all had seven kids each and wanted to die.

[Lewis]

Elsewhere, lots of stuff about the government struggling to make sanctions cases against anyone other than the most open-and-shut, still knee deep in it shithouses. And struggling because of all them laws that we have here. Sit tight Roman lad.

[Giggles]

Have any celebs done a song on Zoom yet?

[Magic]

John Terry disgracing himself on twitter.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The economic sanctions have gone further/quicker than I expected (I didn't even consider the idiotic cultural ones), which would accelerate what I said before about them being better placed than us in the short-to-medium term. In the event that they 'collapse' to the point where their war effort goes with it, however, then they retaliate and we all go down with them. The West could just about manage with another quid on petrol (especially if the elite bloodlust keeps up), but the developing world tearing itself to pieces over bread prices is another consideration.

As for fighting, I saw something earlier about this lasting ten years. Ukraine aren't fighting this for ten months let alone ten years (ten more weeks would be a surprise). The Afghans lost ten fighters to every Soviet, and about fifteen per cent of their population. And they all had seven kids each and wanted to die.

How are the Russians going to govern it? They will soon be bankrupt, Ukraine is massive and filled with 40 million people who absolutely hate them and, after 30 years of freedom, aren't a bunch of wet cucks like the Russian population are.

Putin will just end up with far too many fires to fight simultaneously, will make further rash mistakes, and will either get done in, pushed out, or seethe himself to death. It's not like the olden days. No one can survive long as a pariah state unless you go full North Korea.

[Spikey M]

How are the Russians going to govern it? They will soon be bankrupt, Ukraine is massive and filled with 40 million people who absolutely hate them and, after 30 years of freedom, aren't a bunch of wet cucks like the Russian population are.

Putin will just end up with far too many fires to fight simultaneously, will make further rash mistakes, and will either get done in, pushed out, or seethe himself to death. It's not like the olden days. No one can survive long as a pariah state unless you go full North Korea.

and even North Korea have to fire a few missiles into the sea to get a load of wheat and rice off the Yanks.