Putin On the Ritz

[Shindig]

We lost 179 army personnel in 7 years of fighting in Iraq. 405 in 20 years of fighting in Afghanistan. Russia's lost over 10,000 in a week. I know they're very, very different conflicts but it's mad that over 1% of their army strength has gone that quickly.

[Ian]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-60608132

Mikhail Watford is such a regen name.

[Shindig]

Complete with a regen haircut.

[Manc]

We lost 179 army personnel in 7 years of fighting in Iraq. 405 in 20 years of fighting in Afghanistan. Russia's lost over 10,000 in a week. I know they're very, very different conflicts but it's mad that over 1% of their army strength has gone that quickly.

10,000? Jesus wept.

[Ben]

I think that includes injured, captured, deserted but still woeful tactics nonetheless.

[Don]

Mykolenko captain :happycry: don't know if it was his idea bit that's the most Super Frank thing ever.

[Giggles]

Handy one to do it in. He could name himself captain tonight and things aren’t going wrong.

[Ben]

JPMorgan said on Thursday it expected Russia's economy to contract 35% in the second quarter and 7% in 2022

So they expect sanctions to be short-lived. Shock.

[Yevrah]

How are the Russians going to govern it? They will soon be bankrupt, Ukraine is massive and filled with 40 million people who absolutely hate them and, after 30 years of freedom, aren't a bunch of wet cucks like the Russian population are.

Putin will just end up with far too many fires to fight simultaneously, will make further rash mistakes, and will either get done in, pushed out, or seethe himself to death. It's not like the olden days. No one can survive long as a pariah state unless you go full North Korea.


So they expect sanctions to be short-lived. Shock.

Yeah, there's no way the West (and I include you and me in that) are prepared to see this through for as long as it takes. We know from COVID that after about a year granny/Ukranians will be chucked under the bus.

[Jimmy Floyd]

So if fuel prices rise a bit and Ryanair flights go up to 70 quid, there are going to be demonstrations in Trafalgar Square to 'Lift Sanctions Now'? I don't think so. The race point that Taz bemoans is very important. These are white people dying in recognisable European society, it cuts to NATO hearts far more than brown deaths further afield.

You won't read that in respectable publications but it's the truth.

[Shindig]

The closer it is to home, the more it hits. Like how everyone started shitting it when Covid got to France.

[Lewis]

They aren't going to stick around in Ukraine (possibly/probably the two breakaways depending on what else they get). They don't need to. If they attempt to then yes they have all gone mental.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Mad Vlad hasn't been talking recently like a man who wants to see Eurovision heading back to Kiev next year.

[Shindig]

Ukraine's entry was already banned before the tanks rolled in for being too political. :D

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Ukraine's entry was already banned before the tanks rolled in for being too political. :D

The winner of their selection show was punted as she had visited Crimea, they've given it to the runner up. Who is now the bookies favourite.

[Lofty]

Also, Syria Iraq and Afghanistan weren't sitting on 100s of nukes and waving their dicks in our waters and airspace on the regular.

[Yevrah]

So if fuel prices rise a bit and Ryanair flights go up to 70 quid, there are going to be demonstrations in Trafalgar Square to 'Lift Sanctions Now'? I don't think so. The race point that Taz bemoans is very important. These are white people dying in recognisable European society, it cuts to NATO hearts far more than brown deaths further afield.

You won't read that in respectable publications but it's the truth.

COVID has given us a barometer of how much we're prepared to inconvenience ourselves/suffer hardship for the benefit of others, and it's about a year. There might not be demonstrations, but the unwavering support we're seeing now won't last forever.

[Magic]

The closer it is to home, the more it hits. Like how everyone started shitting it when Covid got to France.

Nobody did except bedwetters.

[Shindig]

Said a man who literally pissed himself.


Fuck I have cold symptoms. Is this paranoia or genuine.

Page 1 of the covid thread. :D

[phonics]

Taz is right. You’re allowed to bomb the shit out of anyone that’s not white. Even the refugees are a-okay.

[Magic]

Taz is right. You’re allowed to bomb the shit out of anyone that’s not white. Even the refugees are a-okay.

It's a civilised country. The others aren't. Fuck them.

[Lewis]

It being closer/Europe helps, but it will also be that, like the Russian cats, Afghans/Iraqis were seen as the opposition and part of it. Nobody gives a shit about the sanctions that we currently have in place starving the Afghans to death, but there was plenty of hand-wringing over Syrians and Kosovans and whoever else before. I can remember doing the charity appeal at school for the Kosovans (and my great nan moaning like fuck when they stuck some refugees in her flats).

[Lewis]

I'm sure I remember doing a Ukraine charity thing at primary school as well. The shoebox one. It can't have been for a specific famine/whatever, so would they have just gone to spastics or something?

[Offshore Toon]

Our shoeboxes went to Romania. All that free shit plus Dan Petrescu must have made the 90s a proper golden age for them. Have they done anything this millennium?

[Jimmy Floyd]

COVID has given us a barometer of how much we're prepared to inconvenience ourselves/suffer hardship for the benefit of others, and it's about a year. There might not be demonstrations, but the unwavering support we're seeing now won't last forever.

A year (it was longer)... the behavioural scientists said a few weeks. People are far more resilient than a cynical mind thinks they are.

[Magic]

I remember the Kosovans too.

Actually I donated to the Afghan appeal at Christmas time when millions of them were going to die. Never happened and I bet their CEO got a bonus.

[Lewis]

Our shoeboxes went to Romania. All that free shit plus Dan Petrescu must have made the 90s a proper golden age for them. Have they done anything this millennium?

Fanned their thieving gypos out across the continent.

[Boydy]

COVID has given us a barometer of how much we're prepared to inconvenience ourselves/suffer hardship for the benefit of others, and it's about a year. There might not be demonstrations, but the unwavering support we're seeing now won't last forever.

And yet people are calling for us to get involved directly. I'm not sure how they figure that would go. Covid would be a walk in the park in comparison.

[Don]

Your German gammon brothers were up in their hundreds with free unlimited term offers to house refugees at the airport on the news. Remember, these ones are civilised, they watch eurovision and don't clean their arseholes properly, get amongst it lads.

[Spikey M]

These are white people dying in recognisable European society, it cuts to NATO hearts far more than brown deaths further afield.

You won't read that in respectable publications but it's the truth.

The racism has been quite transparent to be fair.

1499146357696831494?t=yQddIq7F0Xram0b4-MU2tg&s=19

I'm struggling to find the Jeremy Vine clip, but he was on the TV the other day saying something along the lines of "They're using Thermobaric weapons. The US have used them before, but that was in Afghanistan. This is in EUROPE!"

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yes, and that's reality. We are the white world, we have the power and money and live in peace and luxury, so to us, our deaths matter more.

In the face of this is a long queue of rich
white phonies trying to pretend otherwise.

[Waffdon]

Apparently the Russians are shooting up a nuclear plant and is now on fire. Twitter seems to think it would be 10x worse than Chernobyl. That’s one way to takeover a country

[Lewis]

1498778759893327872

Still raging about 2016 obviously.

[Boydy]

Just think of what it'll do for their stock prices.

[Luke Emia]

How long till one of these famous Ukrainian sportspeople who have signed up gets killed? They have literally no military experience you would imagine and could end up like sitting ducks.

[Giggles]

Are they actually signing up or just getting an Instagram shot?

[niko_cee]

I think they are there to fight, it just depends on how much of a street to street thing it becomes if/when the Russians go in. At the moment it looks like it will be bloody.

It'll be interesting to see how 'the west'/NATO reacts when the inevitable reports [and probably footage] of people being rounded up and summarily executed starts emerging. And by interesting I mean, is that a line in the sand to call the MAD bluff? It's not really a sensible exit strategy for a conflict, is it?

[Kikó]

Yes.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Are there enough true believers on the Russian side to actually go in and organise death squads?

Shelling blocks of flats is a bit different, as you don't have to look your victims in the eye.

[Shindig]

Also, I admire the play from Putin on this one.

1. Ukraine wants EU and NATO membership.
2. Russia invades.
3. NATO doesn't get involved.
4. Russia is all, "Still want to join, lads? They've done fuck all for you."

[Shindig]

Where did you find this intel?

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/bomb-census-survey-records-1940-1945/#:~:text=2.-,What%20was%20the%20Bomb%20Census%3F,as%20the%20'B omb%20Census'.

[Manc]

Do we have a man on the ground? @lurkers

[Kikó]

Also, I admire the play from Putin on this one.

1. Ukraine wants EU and NATO membership.
2. Russia invades.
3. NATO doesn't get involved.
4. Russia is all, "Still want to join, lads? They've done fuck all for you."

I think you lose your point after point 2. It's just nonsense

[Ben]

What a fanny. (https://i.imgur.com/0Hl7XcE.jpg)

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's proper Bond villain stuff, that. Must be some form of incredible paranoia.

[Ben]

1499489756929052681

Sugar being a fucking brain dead idiot again. These billionaires will bring about the swift (pun intended) end of sanctions; it'll always boil down to rich vs. poor rather than country vs. country. So next time you're scratching your head wondering how did we let it get like this, refer back to tosspots like this one.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In war you have to punish the innocent, unfortunately, as their silence and inaction makes room for Putin to do his shit. Making some people feel the pinch in order to press for wider change is rather better than shelling them to fuck.

I'd be in favour of revoking all the visas for rich Russian kids in our boarding schools. Cruel? Yes, but too bad. It's a lever against Russian elites so it should be pulled.

[Don]

Russian elites don't have the same power in Russia as they do in the whorehouse that is UK. Their millions have little effect on uncle Vova and they aren't likely to inspire the population to an uprising either.

[Kikó]

Alan Sugar is so fucking thick. It's genuinely astonishing.

[Pepe]

Not the Fiat 500!

[Manc]

Kiko settling into Germany nicely.

[Lewis]

Speaking of punishing the innocent, have the Chinese really pulled the Premiership coverage? lol they will be shitting it in EPL Towers.

[Magic]

Some pretty nauseating behaviour from China.

[John Arne]

I'll tell you what, the equality lot have gone quiet since the military-aged men were conscripted, whilst women and kids were straight outta dodge.

:naughty:

[Don]

Given the fate of Ozil after China had their say, I suspect the EPL will be unfurling massive tifos of Putin and the Russian flag by next week :drool:

[Giggles]

I'll tell you what, the equality lot have gone quiet since the military-aged men were conscripted, whilst women and kids were straight outta dodge.

:naughty:

Watching them wind their necks in has been glorious.

[niko_cee]

Speaking of punishing the innocent, have the Chinese really pulled the Premiership coverage? lol they will be shitting it in EPL Towers.

They still have to pay to not show it, so I doubt many fucks are really given.

[Giggles]

They still have to pay to not show it, so I doubt many fucks are really given.

Isn’t all that stuff fair game now though? Like what’s to stop them turning “war - so we’re taking all our stuff back” into “war - so we’re not paying for your soccer any more”. Contracts are contracts or they’re not and surely it works both roads.

[niko_cee]

It's up to them what they do, if they want to back the wrong horse they're free to do so although I'm not sure where it gets them, or really who gives a monkey whether they show it or not. I think the last lot of rights holders are currently being sued/have had judgment against them for not paying for them so it's hardly like the deals are money in the bank whether they show it or not.

[Ben]

China are just trying to nip the potential for protest in the bud. They control a lot of the narrative and at this point the Premier League coverage is probably as close to seeing anti-state rebellion as they’ll get. It’s much more about self-preservation than pro-Russia.

[Lewis]

They could do what the Iranians were doing with that female linesman and just cut away from all the Ukraine/blue and yellow stuff. That might be easier than whichever Richard currently runs it trying to sue and collect from the Chinese state media company.

[Ben]

The blue and yellow will be everywhere this weekend, as they’re planning to really step up the “show of support” so it’ll probably be unavoidable.

[Lewis]

Then again it might just blur to green through their eyes.

[niko_cee]

As far as my paltry research tells me, the Chinese welched on the last 'big money' rights deal, and the current one is basically worthless [wouldn't cover a single top top players' wages].

£6m a season for the Russian rights as well, they've already paid up front for this year. :happycry:

The value of foreign tv deals is a bit of a myth [on a country by country basis].

[Jimmy Floyd]

They're worth about the same as the UK rights. I imagine BeIn, ESPN and NBC pay the big dollar from within that, so the Chinese and Russians would be a relative drop in the ocean.

[Adramelch]

I have a friend working in Dresden with several Ukrainian and Russian scientists and he seems quite convinced (although he's firmly against Russia in this whole shebang) that the fire in the nuclear plant was indeed done by the Ukrainians.

[niko_cee]

Whilst you obviously have to take everything with a big grain of salt, in the context of the 'information war' I find these Russian defection/surrender stories interesting. I was wondering to myself the other day if there were potential pitfalls in the strategy of either not telling your army what they are really up to and/or selling them a mad pack of lies, because, at some point, reality is going to manifest itself, chiefly when it turns out you don't appear to be liberating people from the Nazis and those very people you thought you were there to help are trying to kill you for attempting to do so.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In that sense (though probably not in many other senses), there's quite a parallel with the schmucks who were sent in the other way on Barbarossa. Even if you start off bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, in the end you inevitably start thinking 'hmm', especially if your leader's lost the plot upstairs and won't pull you out when it's time.

[Lewis]

I saw something mildly critical of how India are playing this earlier, and lol at the thousands of Indians whatabouting every possible issue from the previous four centuries. Aren't they like this with cricket? Are British-Indians the same, or are they the non-mental ones by definition?

[Giggles]

€1.47 a litre quote tonight for heating oil :boydy:

[Jimmy Floyd]

I saw something mildly critical of how India are playing this earlier, and lol at the thousands of Indians whatabouting every possible issue from the previous four centuries. Aren't they like this with cricket? Are British-Indians the same, or are they the non-mental ones by definition?

Modi and crew are a shameless bunch of ethno-nationalist gangsters, and the Indian military is mostly Russian-equipped, so that explains them.

All the cricket writers on my twitter (who I take to be representative of the educated elite there) are just 'what about Iraq' and making smarmy points about race.

[Boydy]

€1.47 a litre quote tonight for heating oil :boydy:

Gas here is set to go up 39% again. That must be about the third increase in a year.

Drove past a petrol station on the way back from the shop about 15 minutes ago and noticed diesel is at £1.64 now too. Fucking hell.

[Giggles]

Gas here is set to go up 39% again. That must be about the third increase in a year.

Drove past a petrol station on the way back from the shop about 15 minutes ago and noticed diesel is at £1.64 now too. Fucking hell.

I passed one on the way to Cavan the other day in Dublin that was €2 for petrol. I do about 6000km a month too so work will feel that like fuck.

[Lewis]

Modi and crew are a shameless bunch of ethno-nationalist gangsters, and the Indian military is mostly Russian-equipped, so that explains them.

All the cricket writers on my twitter (who I take to be representative of the educated elite there) are just 'what about Iraq' and making smarmy points about race.

India have always been 'non-aligned' meaning pro-Soviet, especially as the Americans got right up Pakistan's arse, but the scale of the seethe made me lol out loud.

'India could probably be doing more to...'
'WHAT ABOUT THE KOHINOOR WHAT ABOUT VELLORE FORT THANK YOU SIR?!'

[Jimmy Floyd]

They will also want another crack at Kashmir at some point, and although I can't imagine Twitter decking itself out in Pakistan flags, it probably won't make them very popular. They are also having a border dispute with the makes-yous, which complicates matters further for them. All in all, not really a country anyone wants having international heft at any point.

[Ben]

Fuck India. Especially the cricketers.

[Spikey M]

Gas here is set to go up 39% again. That must be about the third increase in a year.

Drove past a petrol station on the way back from the shop about 15 minutes ago and noticed diesel is at £1.64 now too. Fucking hell.

There's definitely some piss taking going on. Waitrose are selling for £1.65 here, but Asda is "only" £1.53ish.

[niko_cee]

€1.47 a litre quote tonight for heating oil :boydy:

Jesus.

I paid 69.95p a litre the other day and thought that was pretty bad.

[Magic]

The service stations are £1.99 for diesel. :sick:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Just seen that the thread's eponymous figure told Olaf Scholz that the videos of them shelling Kharkiv/other cities are 'gross propaganda fakes'. The heads have gone hypothesis is getting stronger.

[-james-]

https://news.sky.com/video/share-12557676

This is pretty fucking wild.

[Ben]

Whilst that is indeed wild, my overwhelming thought is: play with feathers, you’re going to get your arse tickled.

[Spikey M]

https://news.sky.com/video/share-12557676

This is pretty fucking wild.

Jesus

[niko_cee]

Are there enough true believers on the Russian side to actually go in and organise death squads?


The stories are starting to surface already.

[Lofty]

Lol at them thinking their journalist status would protect them from the people they are portraying as SS stormtrooper tribute acts.

[Giggles]

Jesus.

I paid 69.95p a litre the other day and thought that was pretty bad.

It was only 97c 2 weeks ago so this is the big leap now tonight.

[Lewis]

President Matey blaming NATO for the dead kiddies smells a bit like getting his excuses in early. Soz ard lad.

[Waffdon]

https://news.sky.com/video/share-12557676

This is pretty fucking wild.

I can’t get my head around this. Were the people shooting miles away? Why when they drop down the embankment do they seem so calm? And why are two people randomly working in a warehouse when there’s guns being peppered next door to them lol

[Yevrah]

President Matey blaming NATO for the dead kiddies smells a bit like getting his excuses in early. Soz ard lad.

Yeah, there's no chance we're sticking with this for anything like the long haul.

[Boydy]

1499752553810214916

[Pepe]

If Tronnie was still president this war would not have happened.

[Lewis]

Shows you how clean the United Kingdom is if we can only find sixteen things to sanction.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You can understand why the Ukrainians are all screeching for planes and that (since they couldn't be in much more of a war), but unforunately they just need to be patient with this.

[Lewis]

1499876153988845569

They've probably already surrendered and backdated it to 1991.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I'm not giving up my Coke Zero.

[Boydy]

1499914605791002624
Sounds like the Serbs are hungry for some war crimes again.

[Waffdon]

1499876153988845569

They've probably already surrendered and backdated it to 1991.

I found out today Irn Bru are discontinuing in Russia which confused me but apparently it’s the third most popular drink after Coke/Pepsi and worth millions. Bit weird. Vodka does go well with it tbf

[Danny]

I found out today Irn Bru are discontinuing in Russia which confused me but apparently it’s the third most popular drink after Coke/Pepsi and worth millions. Bit weird. Vodka does go well with it tbf

:nodd:

Years ago I would go through too many of them on 80p drink night.

[Offshore Toon]

I'm not giving up my Coke Zero.
Drinking Coke Zero over Pepsi Max is genuine lunacy.

[Kikó]

Drinking fizzy drinks as an adult is bizarre.

[Giggles]

Sorry Himmler.

[Spikey M]

Drinking fizzy drinks as an adult is bizarre.

I've seen a picture of you drinkng beer, you slag.

[Magic]

Drinking fizzy drinks as an adult is bizarre.

It is both childish and revolting. Energy drinks are the lowest form as well.

[igor_balis]

Drinking the odd can of whatever is fine, but the types who drink 2 litres of diet cola of whatever description every day must be stopped.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Lager, formal or otherwise, is a fizzy drink.

[Giggles]

Must be stopped? :D

[Magic]

Lager, formal or otherwise, is a fizzy drink.

And wine is a soft drink?

[Magic]

Costa as well falls under the Coke brand. Fuck them all.

[Giggles]

They all create loads of jobs. The more drinking them all the better.

[Magic]

They all create loads of jobs. The more drinking them all the better.

Absolute nonsense.

[Giggles]

Loads of jobs at all levels. Best way for things to work. There’s fuck all benefit to society from whatever this flex thing of yours is.

[Spikey M]

And wine is a soft drink?

It's a woman's drink.

[Magic]

Loads of jobs at all levels. Best way for things to work. There’s fuck all benefit to society from whatever this flex thing of yours is.

They've made a reprehensible decision and we should vote with our feet. There's plenty of other jobs around and if they see a drop in revenues they will reverse the decision.

[Kikó]

It is both childish and revolting. Energy drinks are the lowest form as well.

Probably the first time we've been on the same side of thing for two years.

I refuse the recognition of beer as a fizzy drink.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What do you have with a lunch out when you're not boozing? H2O surely dull in those scenarios.

[Kikó]

Sparkling water.

[Giggles]

Bollinger and canapés.

[Shindig]

I feel like drinking fizzy water is considerably worse than soft drinks.

[Kikó]

I usually end up with a coffee of some sort as well.

[randomlegend]

Sparkling water.

By which you mean fizzy water.

[Giggles]

Sparkling cola drink.

[Spikey M]

Sparkling water.

Another fuzzy drink then. Cool.

[Magic]

What do you have with a lunch out when you're not boozing? H2O surely dull in those scenarios.

Fruit tea.

[Spikey M]

Probably the first time we've been on the same side of thing for two years.


This should be your awakening.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Fruit tea.

Well, each to his or her own.

[Kikó]

[
By which you mean fizzy water.]

Do one Mengele.

[Ben]

Sounds like the Serbs are hungry for some war crimes again.

There are nutters in every country but Serbia has always been a bit more game for aggro than others. They’ve got presidential elections coming up and they’ll do well to bin off the current geezer who seems to follow the Putin ideals of attempting to completely control the narrative in their media. I think they might be the only country in Europe staying “neutral” on this.

Edit: sorry for butting in on the fizzy drink chat, didn’t realise there was another page. For what it’s worth, I’m firmly in the “drinking pop religiously as an adult is scruffy behaviour” camp.

[Giggles]

Glad that’s finally settled then.

[Lewis]

1500049399057203201

Captain, Leader, Legend.

[randomlegend]

Hasn't Terry gone off the deep end and been raving about NFTs or some shit?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Terry is a thick twat from a family of criminals.

Also one of the best centre backs in the history of English football.

[Lewis]

1499868181686624263

:lol:

[Lewis]

On the subject of thick twats, those Sky News people drove through barriers and towards a checkpoint. If you did that to the Americans in Iraq you got vaporised. What did they expect to happen?

[Magic]

On the subject of thick twats, those Sky News people drove through barriers and towards a checkpoint. If you did that to the Americans in Iraq you got vaporised. What did they expect to happen?

America controlled Iraq.

[Lewis]

If you have barriers and a checkpoint you control where they got shot at.

[Pepe]

Man said 1/76.

[Spikey M]

Man said Man said1/76.

[Kikó]

Explain in football terms.

[Shindig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEf1WTDDIYk

The comments are a bit bonkers. "Rest in Peace, Mriya." It can't. It's a plane.

[niko_cee]

The video of the Russian helicopter being shot down on the BBC news page is pretty wild.

[Magic]

On twitter its weird watching incels try and name the weapons/vehicles involved because they play CoD

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Quick way to go out -

https://twitter.com/iaponomarenko/status/1500033163879456771?s=21

[niko_cee]

I find it fascinating that Vlad and President Biscuit seem to have time for multiple hour long phone conversations every day. You'd think they'd both have better things to do. What do they talk about?

[Lewis]

India have always been 'non-aligned' meaning pro-Soviet, especially as the Americans got right up Pakistan's arse, but the scale of the seethe made me lol out loud.

'India could probably be doing more to...'
'WHAT ABOUT THE KOHINOOR WHAT ABOUT VELLORE FORT THANK YOU SIR?!'

1500230278329270272

In real life. Going jalcrazy. Vindalosing it.

[Manc]

Platform shoes.

Fuck off, Lewis.

[Spikey M]

1500230278329270272

In real life. Going jalcrazy. Vindalosing it.

It's Naan of their business. They can't just go Bhajing in.

[Lewis]

That last twenty seconds got me going. It could blend straight into this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMm7QA7icbs) for a proper buzz.

[Ben]

This map (https://maphub.net/Cen4infoRes/russian-ukraine-monitor) is fantastic. Also Bellingcat, the company who maintain this one, seem to be excellent at neutral coverage and especially debunking disinformation.

[Kikó]

Pretty sure bellingcat are the CIA or funded by them.

[Ben]

I'll take your word for it. Literally the first time I've heard of them when I stumbled upon that map.

[Kikó]

I still think they're very good.

[Shindig]

https://mronline.org/2021/10/11/bellingcat-funded-by-u-s-and-uk-intelligence-contractors-that-aided-extremists-in-syria/

I have no idea if this is verifiable and in itself could be misinformation. Or not. Such is the age we live in. And, if I was a defence contractor, I'd be throwing them money as well. "Hey, we might get accused of shit and it would be nice if you could be operational and funded well enough to verify shit that goes down."

[Ben]

1500301348780199937

You'll need to scroll through the tweets to get the gist. It's in the Times this morning but they're paywalled. A few different people reckon this is a legit assessment inside Russia.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't understand how such a massive country can get to the point where one man is so utterly untouchable. I know even in this country we have a carefully constructed cabal of shameless bootlickers for Boris Johnson / any given PM, but there are more than enough checks and balances in the system that any actual human atrocities would be prevented quite easily.

China the same. I guess it's the heir of a socialist system in which the conceit is that one person/party designs the system for everyone else.

[Spikey M]

There's a bit on that in Hypernormalisation. Surely it's the same now. Nobody really believes in the state, but the state is the state and voicing that you don't believe in the state is a good way to end up dead. So everyone just trudges on in apathetic melancholy.

The UK isn't particularly different. We may not be stuck with Boris Johnson, but we're stuck with people exactly like him and with a system that's utter bollocks.

[Ben]

I don't understand how such a massive country can get to the point where one man is so utterly untouchable. I know even in this country we have a carefully constructed cabal of shameless bootlickers for Boris Johnson / any given PM, but there are more than enough checks and balances in the system that any actual human atrocities would be prevented quite easily.

China the same. I guess it's the heir of a socialist system in which the conceit is that one person/party designs the system for everyone else.

Even if we're able to change PM, we're still stuck with the same system, just a different face. Budding PMs who have potential to upset the apple cart are quickly hounded out before it gets that far.

Edit: what Spikey said.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yes but no PM in our system would, for example, be able to send 10,000 young men to die pointlessly in the space of a week because he fancied it. Say what you like but it's a hell of a sight better being an average British person than Russian or Chinese.

[Ben]

That's true. I suppose the one-party system is the perpetrator of that (China de jure, Russia de facto). It allows the ruling party to dish out authoritarianism and propaganda completely unabated unless the general population is up for complete rebellion; even in China and Russia, a good chunk of the population is content enough with life to accept, or at least be oblivious to, the status quo, so full-scale rebellions are pretty much a pipe dream.

[Spikey M]

Yes but no PM in our system would, for example, be able to send 10,000 young men to die pointlessly in the space of a week because he fancied it. Say what you like but it's a hell of a sight better being an average British person than Russian or Chinese.

Granted, but the lack of ability to change course has the same route cause.

That said; over the last few years we have normalised authoritarianism to the extent that people actively crave being forced to stay at home and the government can now criminalise any protest they don't like.

We're in a much better position than the Russians and Chinese, but we're closer to their position now than we were 3 years ago.

[niko_cee]

The FSB twitter thread is interesting, whether it is real or not, and gives credence to my thinking that the danger in 'controlling the information' is that you control it too much - in the same way that government by focus group fails when things like rail disasters happen, because no one gives a fuck about rail safety one day and then the next it's THE MOST PRESSING ISSUE OF THE DAY.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In the same way that Southend will be closer to Man City if they win on Saturday. In this country (and all western countries) you can do and say almost anything you want. Stop the War are free to tweet their absolute shite and go on marches through London. In Russia it's 15 years in jail for claiming that there's currently a war in Ukraine.

I'd say the Johnson government is worse on this count than other recent governments, but mostly I'd put that down to them being unusually thick/lazy and unable to make coherent arguments for anything, so they want to enforce their opinions via law. Future governments will be better.

[niko_cee]

'route cause' is a new one for the TTH Lexicon.

[Ben]

Actually speaking of the lack of appetite for rebellion, even in Russia maybe the decimation of the economy might stir them up. The Moscow Stock Exchange has been kept closed again this week, and the longer that goes on, the more confidence that is eroded. Hyperinflation is almost a certainty at this point, as even a quick takeover of Ukraine this week (terribly unlikely) would not be enough to reverse course immediately. The problem is I don't think other countries will hold out on the severe sanctions that have set this off for more than several months so the hope is that Russians are active enough to oust Putin before that point.

[Spikey M]

In the same way that Southend will be closer to Man City if they win on Saturday. In this country (and all western countries) you can do and say almost anything you want. Stop the War are free to tweet their absolute shite and go on marches through London. In Russia it's 15 years in jail for claiming that there's currently a war in Ukraine.

I'd say the Johnson government is worse on this count than other recent governments, but mostly I'd put that down to them being unusually thick/lazy and unable to make coherent arguments for anything, so they want to enforce their opinions via law. Future governments will be better.

Again, granted. As I said, we are in a much better position. I'm just saying we're going the wrong way. I'm not sure if it does get better necessarily either. The SNP have more or less turned us into a one party system and they know that. As do Labour, who are responding to this by being utterly useless.

The question becomes how much power does the next government want. Because if Liz fucking Truss is next up, then I might ask 7om if he wants a new flat mate in Nanjing.

[Ben]

1500705468997672961

This is a funny one. Notwithstanding the prospect of Russia firing on them anyway, the corridor for Kyiv goes to Belarus and the corridor for Kharkiv goes to Russia lol.

[Spikey M]

'route cause' is a new one for the TTH Lexicon.

:moop:

[Ben]

As do Labour, who are responding to this by being utterly useless.

I think this is doing them a bit of a disservice. I'm not sold at all on Starmer Labour but they seemed to realise what was needed of an opposition through the Partygate shite and this war has finally made them draw a line in the sand which in this case is full of security and patriotism vibes, which our population just gets a stonking hard-on for. It's not something that will win a vote per se, but it takes away another excuse for the swing voters to go Tory, which is the correct tactic from them in my opinion. A lot of people voted Tory in 2019 purely for Brexit and not-Corbyn so winning them back should be achievable if you play the right tunes, such as this one.

We're still a little while away from a general election but in the last three months they've gone from no chance to somewhat possible with regards to being the next Government, in my opinion.

[Shindig]

Say hello to the mayor of Odessa.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/WuqG.M_e6pukq8PttCfYPA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTYwMjtjZj13ZWJw/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/wHhSvj60sQVfjsruzenyNw--~B/aD0xNTY4O3c9MjUwMDthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/the_telegraph_818/7f7f4007587502e6fd4b27f9971863d4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=modwWKIl2nw

[niko_cee]

A plausible programme for government is all they'd really need. They haven't had one for, what, 3 electoral cycles? State backed socialism also at a bit of a low ebb geopolitically right now so maybe don't go with that again.

Everyone will be fed up with the Conservatives come the next election, as is ever the case with the pendular nature of our politics, allowing a centrist from the left [not sure if it's Starmer but he's plausible] to saunter to victory.

Edit - I suppose Starmer could be defeated by a Major type [assuming Boris is ousted] in a repeat of 1993, opening the way to TB2 in 2029 or whatever.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think Keir will win but probably barely or maybe with a minority, which will piss off the jocknats as they desperately need more Tories in England.

I'm surprised they haven't started comparing themselves to Ukraine yet.

[niko_cee]

Hasn't Wales already jumped the gun on that one?

[Spikey M]

I think this is doing them a bit of a disservice. I'm not sold at all on Starmer Labour but they seemed to realise what was needed of an opposition through the Partygate shite and this war has finally made them draw a line in the sand which in this case is full of security and patriotism vibes, which our population just gets a stonking hard-on for. It's not something that will win a vote per se, but it takes away another excuse for the swing voters to go Tory, which is the correct tactic from them in my opinion. A lot of people voted Tory in 2019 purely for Brexit and not-Corbyn so winning them back should be achievable if you play the right tunes, such as this one.

We're still a little while away from a general election but in the last three months they've gone from no chance to somewhat possible with regards to being the next Government, in my opinion.

If Labour manage to win the next election it will be almost entirely down to how terrible the current government has been. They shouldn't need a shambles gift wrapped in order to be a vocal opposition. Starmer is annoyingly good at it when he does take them to task too, which just makes his hesitance all the more baffling.

At times he comes across more like a pissed off backbench Tory than he does the leader of the opposition.

[Ben]

I agree almost entirely with that. I think he is treading carefully for a reason: a good amount of their (still secretive) policies aren't that much different from the currently-more-economically-liberal-than-usual Tories, so either he is waiting for them to show their true conservative values to prove he is different (whilst taking the easy wins in PMQs over things like corruption), or he'll base his entire campaign around simply not being a corrupt Tory which might actually be enough given all the ammunition they keep supplying. He's a very skilled barrister so you've got to assume there's a very calculated method to all this apparent hesitancy.

In other news, Russia have announced they arrested 5,000 people yesterday for anti-war protesting (so likely even more), which is more arrests than the Wiltshire and Gloucestershire constabularies managed in the whole of 2021.

[-james-]

1500301348780199937

You'll need to scroll through the tweets to get the gist. It's in the Times this morning but they're paywalled. A few different people reckon this is a legit assessment inside Russia.

A load of shite. Our version of whatever the rolling news on RT looks like atm.

[Magic]

I agree almost entirely with that. I think he is treading carefully for a reason: a good amount of their (still secretive) policies aren't that much different from the currently-more-economically-liberal-than-usual Tories, so either he is waiting for them to show their true conservative values to prove he is different (whilst taking the easy wins in PMQs over things like corruption), or he'll base his entire campaign around simply not being a corrupt Tory which might actually be enough given all the ammunition they keep supplying. He's a very skilled barrister so you've got to assume there's a very calculated method to all this apparent hesitancy.

In other news, Russia have announced they arrested 5,000 people yesterday for anti-war protesting (so likely even more), which is more arrests than the Wiltshire and Gloucestershire constabularies managed in the whole of 2021.

Can't be that skilled if he pro-nonced Saville. :henn0rz:

[Yevrah]

A load of shite. Our version of whatever the rolling news on RT looks like atm.

It struck me as an article written entirely to convince Nato to get militarily involved and that there's absolute no risk, no sir-eee, of WW3 if they do.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Ukrainians are trying all sorts of shit to try and get NATO involved. It's understandable, but also very naive.

[Lewis]

The most straight-forward explanation for Russia and China is that they aren't particularly arsed about [Western-style] democracy. Putin has generally been very popular over his years in charge, and, insofar as you could ever realistically measure it, this war is probably quite popular as well (if only in the abstract - the economic fallout might change things over time).

[Lewis]

As for this country, I am inclined to stick to my prediction that the shitty Labour Party won't beat the shitty Conservative Party without some sort of general economic disaster. We are due some of that, but if the government can blame it on Russia then people might give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Pen]

I've just ordered a hand crank radio and torch. #prepper

What an odd thread to brag about making the middle class in Top Ireland.

[Pen]

Just caught up with the thread after vwibg away for a few days and it’s interesting to read stuff here as it sort of brings so many different news outlets into the same place.

[Spikey M]

As for this country, I am inclined to stick to my prediction that the shitty Labour Party won't beat the shitty Conservative Party without some sort of general economic disaster. We are due some of that, but if the government can blame it on Russia then people might give them the benefit of the doubt.

I have you right. Without a major economic crisis, I just can't see Labour being able to win enough seats. Not with the SNP holding so many Scottish seats, and the Greens, Lib Dems, etc dividing the left still further.

I think they'll win back most of their traditional seats in the North, so there will be a smaller majority, but I just can't see where the seats come from for a Labour win.

[Kikó]

The cost of living will have an impact you'd think.

[Manc]

Imagine if this shadow cabinet was running the country. Jesus wept.

[Ben]

YouGov polls aren't a great indicator but it seems that while the electorate was livid a month ago, they're currently willing to give it all a pass if it's blamed on Russia. Will be interesting if they still cling onto that when the energy cap hits £3,000 in October and wheat and grain is suddenly extortionate (a lot of it comes from Ukraine and they'll not sow any crops this year will they); already unrest in Egypt over this.

[Magic]

Putin's barmy Coeliac army. :drool:

[Ben]

Imagine if this shadow cabinet was running the country. Jesus wept.

Instead we have Johnson, Truss, Dorries etc. we're so lucky. :cab:

[niko_cee]

Germans now talking about bringing back national service. Maybe World War III is on its way.

Talk about going full VorsprungDurchtuturn on military policy.

edit - seems they only actually got rid of it 10 years ago. :cab:

[Manc]

Send Kiko in.

[Ben]

Germans now talking about bringing back national service. Maybe World War III is on its way.

Talk about going full VorsprungDurchtuturn on military policy.

edit - seems they only actually got rid of it 10 years ago. :cab:

I don't think they truly got rid of it. It's quite common even in Europe (Austria for example), and Germany only suspended the requirement for conscription, rather than abolishing it, so it would be easy to bring back.

[Boydy]

Germans now talking about bringing back national service. Maybe World War III is on its way.

Talk about going full VorsprungDurchtuturn on military policy.

edit - seems they only actually got rid of it 10 years ago. :cab:

Yeah but you didn't have to do it in the military.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Back when I learned German (2000s) they all seemed to do their national service making tea for old ladies.

[Ben]

I think most countries with mandatory national service offer the chance to do non-military. Even my mate in Cyprus did some alternative despite them ostensibly being in perpetual stand-off with the Turks.

[Pen]

I don't think they truly got rid of it. It's quite common even in Europe (Austria for example), and Germany only suspended the requirement for conscription, rather than abolishing it, so it would be easy to bring back.

At some point it was only us and the Greeks and maybe Poland in Europe or something who drafted every male. Obviously you have the choice of civil service or going to jail for a bit if you didn’t fancy the army.

[niko_cee]

Sounds like our version of it is the Duke of Edinburgh's Award Scheme.

[Boydy]

Back when I learned German (2000s) they all seemed to do their national service making tea for old ladies.

Yeah, a friend of mine at uni worked with disabled kids.

[Magic]

Yeah, a friend of mine at uni worked with disabled kids.

Was he a good teacher?

[Spikey M]

Glass houses.

[Don]

Russians are apparently stalling our nuclear deal now with Ukraine related requests that have nothing to do with our honorable aim of cleansing the world of hasidic cunts.

Surely that'll be pushed through as we may mitigate the oil crisis somewhat but strange to see.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I saw former president Ahmadinejad tweeting against Putin the other day, I don't know whether his twitter is genuine or operated by a cabal of his enemies who have him trussed up in a wardrobe somewhere, but it was quite interesting.

[Lewis]

YouGov polls aren't a great indicator but it seems that while the electorate was livid a month ago, they're currently willing to give it all a pass if it's blamed on Russia. Will be interesting if they still cling onto that when the energy cap hits £3,000 in October and wheat and grain is suddenly extortionate (a lot of it comes from Ukraine and they'll not sow any crops this year will they); already unrest in Egypt over this.

I knew that Egypt subsidised bread but I didn't know that the rates are frozen in about 1980. Four flatbreads for a penny. No wonder they're all fat and useless.

[Don]

I saw former president Ahmadinejad tweeting against Putin the other day, I don't know whether his twitter is genuine or operated by a cabal of his enemies who have him trussed up in a wardrobe somewhere, but it was quite interesting.

1405232180981338114

[Ben]

:lol:

[Ian]

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-terminally-ill-children-in-russia-line-up-outside-hospice-in-shape-of-z-to-show-support-for-invasion-12560034

Nothing screams "we are the goodies" like kids with cancer doing invasion propaganda in the snow.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I watched that 'are we the baddies' sketch again the other day, it must be one of the great sketches in comedy, as are a few more of theirs from back in the day.

[Ian]

I saw this one for the first time recently and quite enjoyed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frenyYk3jIA

Doesn't really relate to this situation though unless you think Tony Blackburn is really to blame for it all.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Laboratoire Garnier one is genius.

[Don]

Russian kids with cancer show support for the war in the snow and it's fake. Ukrainian cancer kids get shelled and lie in the snow and it's heart rending. Do you people ever listen to yourselves?

[Ben]

Russian kids with cancer show support for the war
Ukrainian cancer kids get shelled

See the difference?

[AyDee]

Children are dying. The injustices of the world hide in those three words.

[Don]

Alright, Tennyson.

[Lewis]

Is that a puzzle? 'Children are dying'. Yid something-something.

[Magic]

If we use the nukes won't the cancer kids benefit?

[niko_cee]

When you think about it, it's just the equivalent of 102 PET scans . . .

[Jimmy Floyd]

Are these guys trolling or for real? I fear it might be the latter. Some guy reversed his truck into the gates of the Russian embassy in Dublin (there's loads of video of it):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNQ7PhuXMAQLliN?format=jpg&name=medium

[Giggles]

Whoever was driving it should be strung up as an example.

[Yevrah]

Watching the news just now and the optimism over Ukraine's valiant defensive stance appears to be waning hard.

[Mazuuurk]

There seems to be a lot of reasoning in media here I've seen about Putin screwing this up and the people or others turning against him sooner or later.
It seems a bit like wishful thinking.

[Jimmy Floyd]

People won't turn against him, but he has screwed it up.

[Yevrah]

How has he screwed it up? People keep saying this while offering no reason as to why. I've no idea of military tactics, or how long these things should take, I'm Yevrah, but most major cities in Ukraine seemed to have been bombed to shit, 1.7m people have fled and Kiev is surrounded. Would hate to see what him not screwing it up would look like.

[Don]

US looking to Saudi oil to help wean themselves off immoral oil is good to see.

[Lewis]

How has he screwed it up? People keep saying this while offering no reason as to why. I've no idea of military tactics, or how long these things should take, I'm Yevrah, but most major cities in Ukraine seemed to have been bombed to shit, 1.7m people have fled and Kiev is surrounded. Would hate to see what him not screwing it up would look like.

The demands in the Russian peace feelers were pretty much what I said they would be, and the general response from the online opinion-havers was lol they're losing and looking for a way out. People are going to wake up in a few weeks to a Ukrainian surrender and two pound petrol and wonder how it happened.

[Ben]

People are going to wake up in a few weeks to a Ukrainian surrender and two pound petrol and wonder how it happened.

Will they though? There'll be a lot of sadness but for at least the past week the BBC headlines have been "Russia bombards Kharkiv" / "Russia advances on Kyiv" / "Russia shells evacuation routes" whilst also seeing petrol prices rising every day, so you'd have to be an absolute hermit without a rational brain to be shocked by the outcome. People are just rallying round an anti-Russia sentiment for a change.

[niko_cee]

Would hate to see what him not screwing it up would look like.

Would look a lot better no? Floral garlands being thrown at the liberating forces etc.

No need to have physically destroyed Ukraine, or economically Russia in the process.

When are they going to start re-badging F-35s in blue and yellow livery? That's when it gets tasty. [obviously not happening]

[Kikó]

I don't see how this hasn't been a catastrophic military failure. Millions of dollars worth of hardware captured/destroyed, major military leaders dead on the front line (chief of staff today), complete rejection of the liberator narrative and destruction of their economy through sanctions. Yeah they should destroy Ukraine through the numbers they have and superior air and ground support, but it's not been anything like the plan they imagined.

[Spikey M]

In 1 week the Russians have lost more than the US and UK lost in the entirety of Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

A massive sacrifice of people is standard Russian warfare though.

[Ben]

major military leaders dead on the front line (chief of staff today)

That's a biggie if confirmed.

[Spikey M]

1500959074653024259?t=c567Z-OhVzAJF13fukhhzg&s=19

The Executive Director of Bellingcat.

[Magic]

Will they though? There'll be a lot of sadness but for at least the past week the BBC headlines have been "Russia bombards Kharkiv" / "Russia advances on Kyiv" / "Russia shells evacuation routes" whilst also seeing petrol prices rising every day, so you'd have to be an absolute hermit without a rational brain to be shocked by the outcome. People are just rallying round an anti-Russia sentiment for a change.

Bovid taught us most people can't think for themselves.

[Giggles]

1500959074653024259?t=c567Z-OhVzAJF13fukhhzg&s=19

The Executive Director of Bellingcat.

He should face a firing squad for using the term 'delete your army'.

[Shindig]

In 1 week the Russians have lost more than the US and UK lost in the entirety of Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

A massive sacrifice of people is standard Russian warfare though.

I dunno. The Russians only lost 14,000 fighting the Mujahidin for 8 years.

[Luke Emia]

I dunno. The Russians only lost 14,000 fighting the Mujahidin for 8 years.

They also said only 31 people died when Chernobyl exploded back then as well. I think the figures they quoted back in the 80's can probably be taken with a pinch of salt.

[Spikey M]

They probably can now too, tbf. Atleast I don't think the numbers we're getting are coming from an official source, are they?

[Magic]

For all the TENS OF THOUSANDS of deaths the footage has been scarce and few and far between. Disappointing. Even in the middle east we had much better and consistent footage.

[Waffdon]

I reckon Putin has a terminal illness and will be gone soon anyway. No way he’s allow himself to naturally get a bloated face, definitely the steroids

[Kikó]

Parkinson's innit.

[niko_cee]

With oil going to the moon, do the Scottish Independence sums start to add up again?

Get drilling Foe!

[Ben]

1500886096837849099

[Yevrah]

I don't see how this hasn't been a catastrophic military failure. Millions of dollars worth of hardware captured/destroyed, major military leaders dead on the front line (chief of staff today), complete rejection of the liberator narrative and destruction of their economy through sanctions. Yeah they should destroy Ukraine through the numbers they have and superior air and ground support, but it's not been anything like the plan they imagined.

How would you, or anyone in the West, know what the imagined plan was? Most of us didn't think he was actually going to invade until he did.

[Yevrah]

In 1 week the Russians have lost more than the US and UK lost in the entirety of Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

A massive sacrifice of people is standard Russian warfare though.

They're completely incomparable conflicts and as you suggest, why would Russia care about that? They literally have millions of troops. If anything it gives them fuel to go back to their population and say "we told you these Ukrainians were bad people".

[Ben]

If anything it gives them fuel to go back to their population and say "we told you these Ukrainians were bad people".

Which makes no sense from Putin's point of view because he spent 2021 saying how the Russians and Ukrainians are one people who need to be reunited and he's just trying to undo the mistake the Bolsheviks made by splitting them off.

[Lewis]

He'll say the West are bad and mugged the Ukrainians off, which also seems to be where Zelensky is heading.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Zelensky/Ukrainians in general have gone well off message, I know they're getting bombed to shit and people are dying but there must be some cool heads in the room surely.

[Yevrah]

Which makes no sense from Putin's point of view because he spent 2021 saying how the Russians and Ukrainians are one people who need to be reunited and he's just trying to undo the mistake the Bolsheviks made by splitting them off.

Well, ok, the Ukrainians he's targeting with his 'special military operation'. Which he is saying if you watch any of his addresses to the nation.

[niko_cee]

How would you, or anyone in the West, know what the imagined plan was? Most of us didn't think he was actually going to invade until he did.

If this was the plan, it was a pretty rubbish/stupid plan.

Not sure anyone outside of a select few (one?) actually knew or know what 'the plan' was/is and in all likelihood it was as detached from reality as the pretext for the invasion [get the NAZIs!] and the ongoing internal reporting of it on the Russian side.

[Kikó]

How would you, or anyone in the West, know what the imagined plan was? Most of us didn't think he was actually going to invade until he did.

Losing shit loads of hardware and military forces to this level wouldn't have been his plan I'm pretty sure.

[Yevrah]

Zelensky/Ukrainians in general have gone well off message, I know they're getting bombed to shit and people are dying but there must be some cool heads in the room surely.

It's because it's dawning on them quickly that without NATO military intervention they're going to lose and are desperately trying anything they can to get that intervention. What else would you expect them to do and how do you see this working out any differently if there were cool heads in the room?

[Ben]

Well, ok, the Ukrainians he's targeting with his 'special military operation'. Which he is saying if you watch any of his addresses to the nation.

He vastly underestimated the Ukrainians willingness to fight back. It seems from the outside looking in that they were expecting a much easier ride like they got in Donetsk and Luhansk which is ludicrous. The Ukrainians rejected his view for a united people on day one so now it's vengeance. Whatever happens now, Putin has lost. Even as occupiers they'll never have a grip on Ukraine, so at this point it's a case of seeing how many Ukrainians he can take out before they submit.

[Yevrah]

Losing shit loads of hardware and military forces to this level wouldn't have been his plan I'm pretty sure.

So his plan had zero losses in it? If not zero, how many? We don't know what his plan was or how much he cares about the losses so far. I assume we're clinging to them as it helps us deny the cataclysmic economic situation we're heading for.

[Kikó]

1501148055260876804?t=M6kOVbCDPCN9bEhtFhQCgQ&s=19

Great