Game of Thrones Series 6: sponsored by Clarke Excitement Vacuum vs. Dinklage

[Mazuuurk]

Ah so I'm getting it mixed up with the books then probably, because I'm really sure I saw (or read?) that somewhere.

Anyway, it just seems really retarded in any case. Just seems like it should burn off. Although I can see why they would not make that happen for practical reasons, but that just makes it seem a little cheap. It's a bit like Dario Nahaaris looking like a boyband member rather than Mugato from Zoolander, so they don't have to paint his hair or whatever.

[Bernanke]

It burns off in the books, yes.

[John]

In what way is a fireproof woman having fireproof hair retarded? It would be daft if her hair arbitrarily wasn't fireproof, so apparently that's another little detail where the show improves upon the books.

She must either never use her power or walk around looking like a cancer patient at all times in the books. Does she get grief for being bald?

[randomlegend]

Who gives a shit.

[Browning]

I'm with John on this. It seems stupid to say she herself is fire proof but not her hair.

As far as I remember she did lose her hair in the books but I don't recall it ever being mentioned outside of that particular chapter. I feel like it magically grew back before we saw her again. I could easily be forgetting some small references, but I don't ever recall thinking of her as bald.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In TV you need identifiers for the characters, hair being a classic one. Sliding Doors gives a masterclass in this as they give one of the versions of the lead woman a hair makeover for no apparent reason very early on in the piece, so we always know which timeline we're in.

[The Merse]

One of the great narrative devices that, actually wrote about it in film studies in a piece about McGuffins and directorial ploys.

Half decent movie, truth be told.

[Mazuuurk]

In what way is a fireproof woman having fireproof hair retarded? It would be daft if her hair arbitrarily wasn't fireproof, so apparently that's another little detail where the show improves upon the books.

She must either never use her power or walk around looking like a cancer patient at all times in the books. Does she get grief for being bald?


I mean I see your point as well. I guess it's a bit like arguing over the plausibility of a superhero film. It just seems really weird to me that fire wouldn't burn her hair.

I guess it's more made out like this actual magical power she seems to be able to wield herself in the TV show. In the books it's more like - how the fuck did she even survive that? It's because of her blood or something, but it's not like she's some sort of Marvel Mutant, she only has much better resistance to fire / heat. At least that's my take.

[John]

Tonight's episode appears to have leaked a bit early. Available from the usual places.

[SvN]

I've read that the quality is awful, but I'm giving it a look anyway to see if it's worth watching early.

[phonics]

110mb seems low.

[randomlegend]

Just checked my brothers plex to see if it's autodownloaded and it has. The quality is absolutely fine.

[SvN]

The file I've got is 237Mb.

It's definitely watchable, so I'm going for it.

[John]

The one I'm grabbing is 236, but there's a 1080p download listed as well that would have been pulled by now if it was just a shit video in a bigger box.

[John]

:D

Hopefully they're kidding and the actual episode on tonight is not that one.

[SvN]

Eh? Did I miss something?

[John]

Hold the fucking door. How can you possibly take seriously an action climax and character death that's intercut with the news that a character has been saying nothing but a shortened form of 'hold the door' for the last six years?

I thought that whole climactic sequence was shite anyway, but that little nugget would have knocked about three points off the score of even the best episode. Any half cocked fan theory, from Ned Stark accidentally nobbling him to someone giving him the Reek treatment, would have been better.

And they've wasted Max von Sydow. Perhaps more than even Alexander Siddig.

The rest of it was okay, wonky accented Kings aside.

[The Merse]

Hold the fucking door. How can you possibly take seriously an action climax and character death that's intercut with the news that a character has been saying nothing but a shortened form of 'hold the door' for the last six years?

I thought that whole climactic sequence was shite anyway, but that little nugget would have knocked about three points off the score of even the best episode. Any half cocked fan theory, from Ned Stark accidentally nobbling him to someone giving him the Reek treatment, would have been better.

And they've wasted Max von Sydow. Perhaps more than even Alexander Siddig.

The rest of it was okay, wonky accented Kings aside.

Personally I thought it yet another superb episode. I'm stunned that they're keeping up the pace of this season all the way into the second half.

The Hodor stuff was fine. Well executed and a decent 'twist' for want of a better word. I'm expecting something as fundamental as that is from the canon anyway (if perhaps yet to be published, in which case Martin has lost yet another reveal to the series). I was just a little alarmed that Bran didn't return to the tower scene in his dream sequences. I expected John Snow to turn up in there with Neda dead sister, and for it to reveal him as Roberts son (outside chance of Targaeryan though I doubt it heavily?).

[John]

Personally I thought it yet another superb episode. I'm stunned that they're keeping up the pace of this season all the way into the second half.

The Hodor stuff was fine. Well executed and a decent 'twist' for want of a better word. I'm expecting something as fundamental as that is from the canon anyway (if perhaps yet to be published, in which case Martin has lost yet another reveal to the series). I was just a little alarmed that Bran didn't return to the tower scene in his dream sequences. I expected John Snow to turn up in there with Neda dead sister, and for it to reveal him as Roberts son (outside chance of Targaeryan though I doubt it heavily?).

His death was a heroic and tragic one spoiled by having it appear in a shoddy set piece. That we were simultaneously learning that his name and entire vocabulary had been a contraction of the phrase 'Hold the door' only served to further undercut it.

I actually quite like the idea of someone being reduced to a single purpose long before that purpose will be required, a life in stasis until stasis is necessary, if you will, but thanks to the crap action and the genuinely funny 'hold the door' all that was lost for me. It will work for others, and I expect to be in a minoriy on this once everyone has seen it.

'The Night King' looked completely different to when he was staring out Jon Snow too, so unless there's some more time travelling shenanigans to come where Bran pulled a past version of the King through time I'm not sure what the effects people are playing at.

[SvN]

I didn't have any issue at all with the Hodor thing. I think it was quite well done, in fact, and didn't think any of it was shit.

As for the Night King, I'm going to have to disagree again.

http://i.imgur.com/0rZKuGh.png
http://i.imgur.com/As07rgr.png

The only difference there is that it's dark in the second photo. Not sure how he looks completely different.

[John]

The eyes are much closer together and his brow seems different, but maybe you're right and nothing has changed.

[Lewis]

The Blackfish had better be alive and donning it, and not just made up as part of some shitty trap.

[Bernanke]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjHXA6jW0AApguU.jpg:large

I don't get why the phrase is "genuinely funny".

[John]

Spoiler tags until tonight, thanks.

[elth]

Literally everyone on the planet other than John thought the ending worked, I think.

Reveals coming thick and fast now. Cracking pace to this season so far.

[Serj]

I wasn't quite as against it as John was, but I thought that

it didn't look like he actually achieved much with his sacrifice. They were being chased by a horde much faster than them, and through him holding the door they gained what, 100-200 meters? Now, I fully expect someone to be there and pick them up (maybe a late chance to put in Coldhands from the books) or them to find some sort of magical hideout but it looked a bit odd and anti-climactic at the time.

[randomlegend]

Yeah I admit my first thought was "and where the fuck do they think they're going?"

[ItalAussie]

I'm just throwing it out there, but I reckon they'll make it. I don't think anyone seriously believes that they're going to get eaten by zombies in the second minute of the next episode.

Daneryeraerys and Jorah's scene was outstanding, and gave her a chance to show some emotion aside form "Regally Powerful". It did, however, basically scotch my secret theory as to where he was going to go - The Temple of the Many-Faced God to off himself, only to wind up meeting Arya and something something.


Did anyone catch the blink-and-you'll-miss-it cameo in the backstage scene?

EDIT: There's no spoilers in that statement, I think (the bit outside the tags)? And it's worth keeping an eye out for if you're watching it first time.

[Lewis]

There were a couple there. But did we really have to see that lad's cock?

[ItalAussie]

Further thoughts:


I was skeptical about the ending at first, but on a second watch, I think it works. It establishes Bran's ability to cause real damage to people with his powers. It worked for Hodor to have a relatively simple arc, and explains things like his immediate aversion to loud noises in early seasons (like the thunderstorm). I don't think they needed to explain why he was what he was, but it worked in the way they did it. Also, an interesting observation is that not too many characters get really heroic deaths in this series. Hodor, Barristan, Syrio, maybe Jojen.

Team Direwolf seems to be down to two. Hopefully they get some plot-critical moment at some stage, to justify their original appearance of importance. But seriously, Bran. The first rule of Low Fantasy is never give your pet a thematically significant name. Bad plan.

It was interesting that both Varys and Littlefinger - the two characters we're most accustomed to seeing scheming and manipulating - both kind of had their modus operandi spat back in their faces today. Littlefinger was clearly still reeling from having made a massive miscalculation, although it's possible it could be part of a grand plan. But I feel like scheming Littlefinger would've had some Chaos is a Ladder type spiel ready to go.

It was good writing for them to have Sansa dwell a little bit on what Ramsay did to her. For her to just bounce back and carry on like nothing happened would have been almost silly. There had to be some kind of effect on her, and they didn't gloss over that.

As for the Iron Islands, I found that whole bit rather fun. They do seem like a country of Nordic Metal Band members, though. Euron is clearly Donald Trump, too. "I'm going to build a fleet. It'll be the best fleet. And I'm going to make the Lannisters pay for it!". And let's be honest, would anyone be that surprised if Donald Trump's first edict as President was to form a posse to find and murder the people he beat? That said, I'm skeptical that Euron and the apparently twenty-five other islanders really need to build a fleet of a thousand ships.

Finally, I would think that Lesson One of logging onto weirwood.net would be that if you see the Night's King, leave him alone. If he touches you, he'll teleport here and kill us all. Max von Sydow dropped the ball on that one.

[ItalAussie]

There were a couple there. But did we really have to see that lad's cock?A couple of cameos? I'm thinking of one in particular, and it's not one of the actors who were out on the stage.

[SvN]

For fuck sake, just say who

[Lewis]

Richard E. Grant was there being a ponce, and Kevin Eldon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQsRClW77_4) played Ned Stark.

[John]

I'm fairly sure I spotted another cameo in another scene.

Benjen Stark as one of the zombies when Bran was warging around.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

I'm fairly sure I spotted another cameo in another scene.

Benjen Stark as one of the zombies when Bran was warging around.

Had a look again and can't see any that seem too obvious.

A different actor plays the Night King this season.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

http://i.imgur.com/nSwJUB1.jpg

Hero.

[GS]

When do we get to post without spoilers? Anyone looking in here after it's been shown (and when it's simulcast) is asking for trouble, really.

[Ian]

Why are we spoilering stuff for tonight when it's aired in the UK at 2AM or whatever? Can't people just man up and not read the fucking thread from Sunday night until they've seen it?

Anyway: That Tormund bit was hilarious. :D

I also quite liked the Hodor bit and don't have an issue with it being a contraction of "Hold the door" but the fat lad throwing the fit was doing a proper spastic stereotype and ruined that side of it somewhat.

Hodor. :(

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

We posted without spoilers after the US episode last week but John came in early this time and said no to it. I really don't understand why.

We all know when the US showing is and most of us watch it before the UK episode is televised for the second time.

Just don't come in the thread until you've watched it, simple.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The threads on the old board were mainly at US pace too.

[Kikó]

Fuck off John.

Loved that episode. Shame about Hordor but you know, sometimes you got to be Walking Deaded. The pace of this season has been great, even Queen of Fire has become interesting even though I thought she could have healed Sir friendzone, maybe they need to have a funky night to cure it. That's the line I'd go with.

[Mazuuurk]

I wasn't quite as against it as John was, but I thought that

it didn't look like he actually achieved much with his sacrifice. They were being chased by a horde much faster than them, and through him holding the door they gained what, 100-200 meters? Now, I fully expect someone to be there and pick them up (maybe a late chance to put in Coldhands from the books) or them to find some sort of magical hideout but it looked a bit odd and anti-climactic at the time.



Yeah I admit my first thought was "and where the fuck do they think they're going?"


I know GRRM said that the next book will "Take the reader further north than ever before". There's also the fact that the next book is called "Winds of Winter".

So my bet is: Bran will be urged by Meera and some weird temptation to head back south but will instead head up north based on some random instinct or some such bollocks.

A thing that's worrying (for Bran at least) is that a recurring theme with the Starks has been that as soon as they have left their wolves or not trusted their wolves instincts, they have ended up dying. Though I'm confused if thats more of a book / series thing now, can't remember exactly what happens with them earlier.

[ItalAussie]

Richard E. Grant was there being a ponce, and Kevin Eldon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQsRClW77_4) played Ned Stark.

I don't even know who the second person is, but seeing Richard E. Grant pop up in the nothingest possible role was fantastic.

[John]

We posted without spoilers after the US episode last week but John came in early this time and said no to it. I really don't understand why.

We all know when the US showing is and most of us watch it before the UK episode is televised for the second time.

Just don't come in the thread until you've watched it, simple.


Fuck off John.

I didn't open the thread until about half ten last week and just skim read stuff without checking when it was posted, but prior to that everyone had been using spoiler tags anyway. I gave my reasons for saying the 2am showing shouldn't count as it having aired the first week, but those don't apply now so I'll say again, if everyone is happy to go along with US pace then that's what we'll do.

[John]

I don't even know who the second person is, but seeing Richard E. Grant pop up in the nothingest possible role was fantastic.

Kevin Eldon is a fairly prominent bit player in UK comedy. He'll have eleventy billion credits on IMDb, most of them from the last decade or so.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I really can't believe Meera is still alive, nor did I remember she was. Did Jojen die? What a rubbish plot device he was.

The ironborn are all mugs. Although 'What is dead may never die' is a quality catchphrase.

Everything else that happened in that episode was wank. I'm sure that ice cunt with the long white hair has now been killed at least three times. Useless tosser. I'll guess that Jorah the Andal (boss) will head over to Oldtown and hook up with Sam, and via that, sugartits will hook up with 'brooding' Jon Snow. Speaking of which, Brienne is increasingly a don.

Lol at Littlefinger as well. Bet he will now pledge his support for Ramsay before switching sides mid battle, or some other fiendish manoeuvre.

[ItalAussie]

In fairness, given their success rate in the series to date, the motto should probably be replaced with "Sailing to Failing".

[Browning]

A few things I've read seem to be suggesting Richard E Grant was the dude playing Robert. Is that true? Would never have guessed if it was.

Edit- Seems he was. I was confused by Ital saying "not one of the actors on stage". I will have to watch that bit again tomorrow.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He was, I didn't even realise it.

I thought he was just poncing about backstage.

The play really was brilliant and I like that 'A girl' was the one who was playing Arya Stark.

[ItalAussie]

I totally didn't realise he was Robert until after I posted that. :D

I only noticed him backstage, and assumed that he hadn't been previously onscreen.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh yeah, the other shite thing was Flashback Ned being played by some bloke and not Sean Bean. What is Sean Bean realistically doing that they can't hire him for a day to do a bunch of flashback scenes?

[Mazuuurk]

In the flashback he was like 10 year old and heading off to the Vale, wasn't he? Would have been a little weird seeing Sean Bean playing a 10-year-old, however much makeup you put on him.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh was that meant to be Young Ned? I thought it was Ned and a toddler version of Bran. That would make Hodor about 60 when I assumed he was about 34. Although that wouldn't make sense either, now I think about it.

[Vim]

The grown-up was his father Rickard Stark, when they were about to send Ned (who'd be joined by Robert Baratheon) to the Vale.

[ItalAussie]

I do sincerely hope we get at least one Sean Bean-containing flashback, though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They've teased us enough with Young Ned, Child Ned and Dad Who Has The Same Hair Ned that surely it's on the cards. Although saying that I guess we've probably seen most relevant Bean-era Ned on screen in the first series.

[phonics]

Ned was shit, he just got killed off early enough for people not to moan about it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He was a bit of a mug, but come on, Sean Bean.

[John]

Recasting the Night King must be a bit of a pisser for Richard Brake, by the way. They had him on a 'best of' thing just before this season started and he was going on about how that Hardhome raid was one of the greatest dramatic moments he'd ever been involved in and what an honour it was to be on such a brilliant program. He must have fucked someone right off to get binned after that.

[SvN]

I wonder if we're going to see more of him before he became a white walker, and that's why they recast him?

[John]

The bloke they've got now is primarily a stuntman. He was the stunt coordinator on the episode with Arthur Dayne donning it with two swords, so hopefully he was the one actually doing that stuff and they're gearing up for some serious action on that front.

[SvN]

Ah right, that makes more sense.

[Alex]

Ned was shit, he just got killed off early enough for people not to moan about it.

Nah, he was great. The bit where he doles out a rare bit of actual justice from the Iron Throne while he's Hand of the King is still one of my favourite scenes from the whole thing. Obviously it was this kind of relatively sound behaviour that meant he didn't last long, but still.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKB0ogglzGQ

Before Littlefinger became Irish that, as well.

[Shindig]

All the women around me at work were giddy over this. To the point where they're planing a 'Thronies Night Out.' Hell.

[Bernanke]

http://i.imgur.com/dI7sBPq.gif

Madness... has had it's daaaay!

[SvN]

It was great to finally see the Mad King.

Decent episode overall. Not quite as good as the previous few, but still moved a few things along. Glad to see Arya finally moving on from the Faceless Men.

[Browning]

Enjoyed that. Tyrion really wasn't missed, which shows how far he's fallen this season. Gone from one of the best characters to one of the most boring.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

That's one hell of a long game to be playing with Benjen Stark

[GS]

"That audience was shit!"

[Ian]

Enjoyed that. Tyrion really wasn't missed, which shows how far he's fallen this season. Gone from one of the best characters to one of the most boring.

I don't think he's boring.

It's more that the show has moved on from being 45 minutes of filler per episodes and isn't hanging off the performances of about two actors any more.

[Browning]

I don't think he's boring.

It's more that the show has moved on from being 45 minutes of filler per episodes and isn't hanging off the performances of about two actors any more.

He's still brilliant as an actor, and has delivered some great lines, but his storyline has been really dull this season. If he hadn't been in any of it we wouldn't have lost all that much.

[Ian]

They're just finding reasons to keep him about, really. Nothing's likely to happen in Mereen while Daenerys is busy poncing about.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

http://i.imgur.com/dI7sBPq.gif

Madness... has had it's daaaay!
Lol at this, Jamie's face was great when he was busy poncing it up.

Samwell's Dad is a right twat so I loved it when he stole his sword.

[Cord]

Nice to know that season and a half full of training montages for Arya was building up to her going 'nah' and not bothering. Also I'm pretty sure the dragon woman bits are just there specifically to annoy me now.

Still, I love that feathered hat. Top work Mace.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Randall Tarly (was that his name?) was brilliantly played.

They seem to be lining up for another totally chaotic war.

[John]

The other Tarly boy being called 'Dickon' is good. Thougt I'm fairly sure they've never mentioned it before and the lack of prior 'Dickon my brother' jokes is a bit strange.

[ItalAussie]

The Blackfish thing came at a fairly opportune time, given the lack of anything else really happening in Westeros. There's presumably a lot of things about to happen, but despite the shenanigans in King's Landing and Dorne, the whole country had actually been pretty peaceful until now. No real debate over who's the rightful King or anything like that.

Everyone is assuming that the Mountain's opponent in the trial by combat is going to be the Hound. But I do wonder if that's what they're going to use the Sand Snakes for. Maybe one of them will fight the Mountain, get revenge, etc.

I'm really annoyed with the Arya plot though. What a pointless shaggy-dog story that was. Two seasons of "I'm going to be an assassin" followed by a big nope. Could've been condensed more than a little bit.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

The Sand Snakes can fuck right off, it's no coincidence this season has been excellent for the most part because they're nowhere to be seen.

The next episode is titled 'The Broken Man'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq-97rH6P_8

The Hound at 30 seconds?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I assume Arya is going to off that smarmy slag who's coming to kill her, and then become a freelance assassin going after the people on her 'list'.

[SvN]

I'm assuming the point of Arya's storyline the last season or so has been so she could get some sort of proper training.

[elth]

She didn't, though. She's exactly the same headstrong, barely-pays-attention-to-her-surroundings, impulsive (albeit still pretty cool) twit she was two seasons ago. She was better with the Hound, at least he called her on her bullshit. But she hasn't learned *anything*. The series has completely ballsed her story up IMO. I still like her, don't get me wrong, but she should be a much more rounded character as a result of her time in Braavos and she isn't.

Samwell is such a boring, tedious character too. Honestly I wanted his father to just lop his head off at the dinner table to end his story, Jon's not even going to be at the Wall if he ever gets back there knowing anything about White Walkers anyway. Bran's made more progress stuck in a cave under a tree for six months than Sam's managed traipsing about Westeros. What a bellend.

I thought the show had learned it's lesson about giving characters "moments of badass" in front of three blokes and a goat but Dany's dragon must have taken up enough of the CGI budget that they couldn't afford to duplicate a few extra thousand Dothraki.

The other stories have got so bad I'm cheering for the fucking Lannisters.

[SvN]

She's improved her fighting technique

[Serj]

The Lannisters have gotten as tedious with their "hurrrrdurrrusagainsteveryoneelse" schtick as Dany's rousing speeches. Jaime and Cersei's scene together was comfortably the worst one this episode.

Arya's arc might still have some progression in there, depending on what happens now. Her rejecting the assassin training plus being so moved by fake Cersei's stage monologue might have signalled her turning away from her planned revenge spree. Too early to tell, though. But they really should have sped up her adventures in Braavos a bit, even if they have this conclusion.

I thought Sam's part was actually a welcome change of pace, I found the dialogues more believable than in other scenes and him gathering Valyrian steel might not be that unhelpful against the Walkers. Judging by the pace of their invasion, he can dawdle for a lot longer, too.

[phonics]

Surprised by how little was made of Uncle Benjens return. Quite a set-up.

edit: And one that doesn't seem to be in the books whatsoever. What?

[Browning]

It's not but there's another character in his place that could in theory still turn out to be him.

[Lewis]

This was surely the obvious outcome of the Arya story. If she had joined them and become faceless 'n' nameless, what would be the point in following her?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

It's not but there's another character in his place that could in theory still turn out to be him.

The seethe when Benjen spoke in that episode, I really thought they had finally included him in the show.

[Serj]

This was surely the obvious outcome of the Arya story. If she had joined them and become faceless 'n' nameless, what would be the point in following her?

Well, I thought the expected outcome went more like she'd get a full training & membership in the creepy assassins' guild, and then be sent over to Westeros to prove she's "no one", where having to kill someone from her days of being Arya makes her go rogue.

[Bernanke]

The seethe when Benjen spoke in that episode, I really thought they had finally included him in the show.

It is him. They used his name in the Inside the episode-video. Now, they might be different characters in the books, but in the show Benjen = CH.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

It is him. They used his name in the Inside the episode-video. Now, they might be different characters in the books, but in the show Benjen = CH.

I didn't realise that he was actually meant to be CH in the show. I'm cool with that then.

[GS]

My suspicion is that the Arya storyline was 'dragged' to align the end of series five with the end of book five. There appeared to be genuine expectations that the Winds of Winter would be released before the sixth series, so they wanted to have everything there or thereabouts in relation to the books before kicking on. Now that the book has been delayed, they've clearly just cracked on. I think that's why she's been in Braavos for this long, and why they're now advancing her story at a rate of knots.

[The Merse]

Agree with Lewis - it seemed obvious she'd leave the assassins guild or whatever the hell it's called in order to pursue her targets once they made it clear she'd have to let go of the past and therefor her list with it. It's been dragging a bit (surely she could have offed a 'deserving' target first or had more interesting training?), but it never felt like her story arc would allow for her to do the bidding of the many faced twits for long.

Bit weird that it is apparently a two person outfit too.

Everything else this episode was alright, but felt a little slow in comparison with the rest of the season so far to me. Having said that, they've clearly set up some serious action from here to the finale.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The book version of Temple Jaqen was 'The Kindly Man', more in the Mr Pastry mould and would have worked better but you need to minimise the number of TV characters I suppose.

[Mazuuurk]

It was always really obvious that Arya wouldn't end up a faceless "man" in the end. You knew that from the moment she hid away her sword when they explicitly told her to throw it into the water, and how they would blatantly zoom in on her face every time they asked her to forget she was a "Stark" girl. There's also the fact that her Wolf is still alive, supposedly, somewhere.

Anyway, that was a bit of a shit episode compared to the others. I'm really tired of Denaerys now, I used to think she was pretty awesome but she never fucking does anything fun anymore (except show up at the end of each episode and do something ridiculous).

Also really obvious that she'll be taking over the "1000 ships" that Euron Greyjoy wants to build. In the books, I'd say she'd marry him, but in the TV-series I reckon she will just have a dragon eat him (Edit: actually come to think of it, in the Books that's some other Greyjoy).

Anyway, building 1000 ship is FUCKING retarded. Why? Their islands are about 50 feet across and don't have any fucking trees on them. 1000 ships would hold something like 100.000 men, 50.000 if they were small, and that would assume the Iron Islands houses maybe something in the region of 2-300.000 people at least. Given that the Lannister army was, what, 20.000 men? - it doesn't really seem to compute very well. Add to that that Yara fucked off with a bunch of people (which, by the way, looked like about 20 people sailing about 50 ships, so maybe that's how it works...).


Anyway, the only good thing with this was that Coldhands finally showed up. Although I'm disappointed he was riding a horse and not a stag.


Hopefully we'll see some action next episode. Brynden da B is a bit of a badass.

Also, Sam stealing what happened to be a Valyrian steel sword two episodes after he talked with Jon about how it's the only thing coupled with Dragonglass that kills white walkers (which Gilly pointed out he was good at by the way) means that 99% Sam is gonna kill at least another White walker at some point, and then probably cry about it.

[randomlegend]

I never thought of the 'THOUSAND SHIPS' as being literal.

[John]

Also really obvious that she'll be taking over the "1000 ships" that Euron Greyjoy wants to build. In the books, I'd say she'd marry him, but in the TV-series I reckon she will just have a dragon eat him (Edit: actually come to think of it, in the Books that's some other Greyjoy).

The ones he explicitly said he was building specifically for her? With the sole intention of sailing them to Meereen and giving them to her? Yeah, I'd imagine she'll take over those ships at some point.

[Mazuuurk]

Well, Dario Nahaaaaaaaris is right though, to get like 15.000 horses, and about 30.000-40.000 men across the sea they'd probably need something in the region of 700-1000 ships, mainly for the Horses I suppose.

It's mainly that the Iron Islands look like they have about 200 people on them. I mean, given that they drown people when they become teenagers and just hope they happen to survive - you'd have thought they would have pretty much offed themselves anyway by now.

[Mazuuurk]

The ones he explicitly said he was building specifically for her? With the sole intention of sailing them to Meereen and giving them to her? Yeah, I'd imagine she'll take over those ships at some point.

I said it was really obvious, didn't I?

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Dothraki would presumably be fucking useless in Westeros. Not only would half of them probably bail just at the maritime stage, but what are you going to do with a bunch of Mediterranean horse lords in the sodden Riverlands, the snowy North, and wherever else doesn't have enough food for that many men and horses.

Realistically she'd need two or three full regions behind her, which isn't going to happen because most of them have some interest in Tommen staying king, although saying that I really can't see how his pretty inbred face isn't going to get caved in quite soon anyway. Surely Margery is playing them all and hasn't actually been turned by Elliott Carver and his merry men?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Maybe she's just hoping that if she lobs enough dothraki at the problem they'll find a way.

Given that Robb was shitting on the Lannister army with a small force because he was a MASTER TACTICIAN, they'll get fucked by anyone in Westeros with half a brain.

[Alex]

Jaime Lannister riding a horse up a fucking flight of stairs is the best thing that's happened in King's Landing all season. What a lad he is. :cool:

It's not competing with that time Tywin rode his into the throne room, but it was still a top effort.

Sam quite often annoys me, but I enjoyed his little "meet the parents" jaunt back home. Some of his dialogue was very funny. Especially "a person just doesn't feel welcome at that point", in reference to his father threatening to kill him if he didn't join the Night's Watch. :D

Presumably his old man is going to want the sword back though. Also, I didn't realise Sam's family was meant to be that big a deal. I knew he was from a proper house and everything, but not to that extent. Their castle looked way swankier than anything else in Westeros.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think the castle was just meant to look nice for a contrast with where Sam and Gilly have been for the entire duration of the series to date. They're (I think) in the same region as Mace 'lol' Tyrell, but not as big a deal.

[Mazuuurk]

Well they are bannermen to the Tyrells so probably a slightly lesser house. The Tyrells are absolutely minted as well, right? But seemingly in a plumed, puffy way that the Lannisters are not.

[Lewis]

The Blackfish is such a geezer.

[Bernanke]

Lil' lady Mormont was badass.

[Browning]

Indeed. She had more balls than anyone else in the show.

[Alex]

The Blackfish is such a geezer.

He really is. Mugs the Freys off from the battlements, and then just had a little wander out of the castle to take the piss out of the Kingslayer before fucking off back inside.

"I'm disappointed". :yawn:

:cool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

What was Margaery up to in that scene with Diana Rigg? Pulling on her dress or something?

[John]

Gave her that drawing of a rose to let her know the whole converted zealot thing is an act.

That was excellent, though I could have been doing with Ian McShane being cast in a role that lasts more than an hour. They're on a proper roll for wasting great actors.

[Ian]

Tim McInnerney doing an unusually gruff role as well.

Decent episode though the Hound stuff has me conflicted. On the one hand it feels meaningless for him to go a-murderin' when we've only seem him not being a murderer for about ten minutes, but then I wouldn't have wanted to see him moping about lopping trees for two seasons either.

He going to end up killing Mt. Zombie at some point, do we think?

[Lewis]

I thought Hammer was good as Arya's assassin too.

[five time]

The biggest shock post that episode was reading that Ian McShane is 73.

Not sure if he gets upto much in the books, but wouldn't it defeat the point of mountain zombie if he just loses after not really doing anything?

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's hard to know who was the biggest don out of Bronn, Little Miss Mormont and the Blackfish in that episode. Probably the Blackfish, but Bronn has some fucking great lines.

What was going on with Arya? There should be intestines everywhere from that spearing, and yet there she is strolling up the high street seeming to be suffering from nothing more than a chill.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The biggest shock post that episode was reading that Ian McShane is 73.

Not sure if he gets upto much in the books, but wouldn't it defeat the point of mountain zombie if he just loses after not really doing anything?

We're mostly past where the books are now (a few exceptions, e.g. that Blackfish/Jaime scene, or something similar, is in the books).

[Ian]

Mt. Zombie will murder a crowd of mugs at some point. Probably some of the Sparrow's mates when Cersie gets gobby. Can't think who else they'd have him fight.

Though didn't she mention a trial by combat? What's the trial for?

[Lewis]

What was going on with Arya? There should be intestines everywhere from that spearing, and yet there she is strolling up the high street seeming to be suffering from nothing more than a chill.

I thought that. It's either fake blood, or they need her to bump into some red dickhead who can heal her.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

It's hard to know who was the biggest don out of Bronn, Little Miss Mormont and the Blackfish in that episode. Probably the Blackfish, but Bronn has some fucking great lines.

What was going on with Arya? There should be intestines everywhere from that spearing, and yet there she is strolling up the high street seeming to be suffering from nothing more than a chill.
Indeed, they were all excellent. I'm hoping we get more of them, especially Bronn and his one liners.

[John]

The Arya stuff was strange. You'd think 'The Waif' would be competent enough to just slice her throat if she was there just to kill her, suggesting that she wanted Arya to suffer in some way, but then that would be going against A Man asking her to make it quick, and you'd think she'd know better than to do that.

[elth]

The Waif still being bitter, jealous, and vindictive is why she's still in training. She's no closer to being an emotionless servant of the Many Faced God than Arya is (or was).

[Jimmy Floyd]

A Man probably knew what was going to happen and will no doubt rock up again next episode with a bandage and a Crunchie bar. The next episode is called 'No One', so...

[Browning]

Mt. Zombie will murder a crowd of mugs at some point. Probably some of the Sparrow's mates when Cersie gets gobby. Can't think who else they'd have him fight.

Though didn't she mention a trial by combat? What's the trial for?

All the crimes she hasn't admitted to already. I think she admitted to adultery... so it will be for incest, murdering Robert and whatever else she's done.

There's a fan theory going around about the waif that sounds a bit nuts but could have some truth in it....

Basically that she is Arya, and when she kills Arya off it'll just be symbolic to show Arya has become "no one".

[Lofty]

I can't believe the general fools of social media are whinging about this series, it's definitely improved in terms of things actually happening. Emilia Clarke is still terrible though.

[SvN]

New episode has leaked if anyone fancies watching it a few hours early

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Thanking you good Ser. Just when I was struggling to find something to watch.

[elth]

Pretty disappointing episode IMO.

[SvN]

Yeah I was expecting fireworks, but it was a bit crap, really. Everything interested happened off camera.

[ItalAussie]

Worst episode of the season so far.


So Arya's story and the whole Riverrun situation were just massive pointless time-wasters?


Also, and I doubt I'll be the only person to note this,


Apparently the cure to being stabbed in the gut five times is a bandage, some soup, and sleeping it off.

Although Arya tumbling down the stairs was darkly amusing. What was with them putting water out on the stairs, and then totally ignoring it? And was the waif meant to be a homage to the Terminator? It's the only explanation for her weird mannerisms.

The Faceless Men are terrible, terrible assassins.

[Bernanke]

Candidate for worst episode of the show. Hound saved it somewhat.

[ItalAussie]

It's telling that the two best scenes were scenes in which essentially nothing significant happened:

(The Hound and the Brotherhood, and Tyrion trying to bond with Grey Worm and Melisande)

[randomlegend]

They seem to be following the same pattern of the previous couple of seasons where they build and build and build and then all the actual action happens right at the end.

That's not to deny that this season has generally been way better than the last 2 (which were genuinely quite shit) but it's still quite frustrating and I think it suffers a lot for it.

I say this having not yet watched this episode.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Beats the books, where he doesn't really bother building, and just sits in a bog for eighteen chapters before BOSH, twenty deaths.

[John]

Yeah, that was crap. Worse than crap, actually, it was bland.

What the fuck are they playing at with Arya? She's served about four different apprenticeships learning to fight and her story has basically spent the whole time running in place. She's been in different physical locations, but since she first wound up with The Hound her narrative has stood exactly still, and even before that she had a different kind of mouthy instructor in Syrio.

The Harbinger of Boredom turning up on that pyramid is the most predictable and least impressive thing they've ever done. They obviously rinsed their effects budget on the ships flinging fire around and the unnecessary dragon shot from the other week when she gave her big speech to her already motivated troops, but that sort of arrival late in the game needs some sort of fanfare and a whooshing noise and one kneeling guard isn't it.

I'll be fuming if Blackfish is actually dead. They couldn't possibly have resolved that situation in a less interesting way.

The Hound was good, but other than him that was just pathetic. Episode eight as well, so they've got fifteen left until the whole thing is finished and they're putting out that shit.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

They seem to be following the same pattern of the previous couple of seasons where they build and build and build and then all the actual action happens right at the end.

That's not to deny that this season has generally been way better than the last 2 (which were genuinely quite shit) but it's still quite frustrating and I think it suffers a lot for it.

I say this having not yet watched this episode.

Season 4 shit?

[randomlegend]

Seems season 5 was so shit it felt like 2, having checked.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Looks like the next episode being the 9th will stay true to form and focus mainly on the North.

[Ian]

Yeah, the Hound and Tyrion were the best bits in an episode riddled with anti-climaxes.

Mount Zombie does one bit of brutality (I suspect there's more to come, mind), the Riverrun thing was a waste of time and other than the chase being decent (though as Ital said, a bit Terminator-ish in terms of the Waif) the whole Arya thing has gone nowhere as well, unless Jaqen ends up doing something further I guess.

I did like The Hound when he was telling that fella he's shit at dying.

[Browning]

I actually think this has been worse than season 5. So many storylines have gone nowhere or been concluded badly. It feels like nothing of significance has happened at all aside from Jon Snow coming back and that was way too predictable.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There is no fucking way they are wrapping this up in just one more season, unless it's more or less constant heavy action and absolutely no filler at all, which based on their efforts of late will not be the case.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Yeah, the Hound and Tyrion were the best bits in an episode riddled with anti-climaxes.

Mount Zombie does one bit of brutality (I suspect there's more to come, mind), the Riverrun thing was a waste of time and other than the chase being decent (though as Ital said, a bit Terminator-ish in terms of the Waif) the whole Arya thing has gone nowhere as well, unless Jaqen ends up doing something further I guess.

I did like The Hound when he was telling that fella he's shit at dying.

It's the fact they had Arya poncing about in the last episode, completely oblivious to the obvious risk, openly allowing herself to get stabbed in the gut. They could easily have written a scenario with a similar ending but her at least staying true to her character.

[Alex]

Aye, it was a bit rubbish this week. Well, "rubbish" is a strong word. By it's own standards perhaps, but it's still probably a more entertaining hour of television than I'll watch all week.

I definitely echo what Ital is saying about Arya. Just have a bit of a lay down, a bowl a soup and recover from your serious internal injuries over night? Then go out the next day and start vaulting fucking balconies and flights of stairs? No. Not having that.

I actually didn't like the Tyrion stuff this week either. It just came across as forced and shit. Dinklage is far too good to be stuck in a three way scene with Grey Worm and his missus while they deliver awkward, poorly written dialogue. Splitting him and Varys up is a mistake.

It was nice the see the Hound swing an axe at people I guess. What point is he going to serve this late in the game though? Same with brining Beric and Paul Kaye's character back. Where they going North did they say?

The stuff at Riverrun was easily the best bit about it. But ultimately even that has just been a pointless, two episode detour to give Jaime and Bronn something to do for a bit. Nobodies story has really been furthered at all. In fact all it's served to do is bring back the fucking excellent Blackfish and then unceremoniously kill the poor bastard off. Off screen at that!

Somebody better reverse this "no trial by combat" nonsense as well. If zombie Mountain doesn't deal some serious fucking damage to somebody before the season is out I'm going to be annoyed.

The trailer for next weeks looks incredible though, for what it's worth. And I do think it's been a really good season on the whole. I didn't really mean that to be a total whinge-fest. :D

[Browning]

Now there's no Trial by Combat I'm starting to think Cersei is getting found guilty and, as a result, Tommen is getting declared illegitimate and losing the throne. He'll also die soon enough because of "the prophecy" but yea, they've stitched him right up there.

That is unless the Trial by Combat still happens. A trial of 7 would be spectacular, but they won't do it. :(

[Alex]

Now there's no Trial by Combat I'm starting to think Cersei is getting found guilty and, as a result, Tommen is getting declared illegitimate and losing the throne. He'll also die soon enough because of "the prophecy" but yea, they've stitched him right up there.

That is unless the Trial by Combat still happens. A trial of 7 would be spectacular, but they won't do it. :(

This hadn't even occurred to me. He really hasn't thought this through at all, has he? :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

Who gets stuck on the throne next? Robert's legitimate heir would be, erm, next question.

[Ian]

Tommen dies followed by political wrangling for the throne when they know Daenerys is on the way knowing they need somebody to take charge and fend her off but nobody wanting to admit that their own candidate might be an idiot.

Does the Sparrow reckon he could get that Lannister gimp on the throne? You'd think he won't be sending him to the Red Keep to wind up Cersie if he did but I suppose it's possible.

[Alex]

Who gets stuck on the throne next? Robert's legitimate heir would be, erm, next question.

Are there even any more legitimate Baratheons knocking about if Tommen does get found out? Stannis was the last one, and presumably they aren't going to introduce some long lost cousin or something this far down the line.

It would certainly set up Daenerys as some sort of natural choice I guess, being the sort of heir apparent for the previous dynasty.

[Lewis]

Gendry could roll up in his boat and stop it all kicking off.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He must be awfully tired by now.

[Ian]

I had it in my head that Melisandre had done him in for his blood. Did she only take some of it?

[Mellberg]

Gendry to turn up in his boat and claim the throne.

Edit: :moop:

[Alex]

I had it in my head that Melisandre had done him in for his blood. Did she only take some of it?

Aye, just the enough for Stannis to throw those leeches into the fire. They were going for a full on sacrifice I believe, but Davos let him go.

[The Merse]

There is no fucking way they are wrapping this up in just one more season, unless it's more or less constant heavy action and absolutely no filler at all, which based on their efforts of late will not be the case.

Where has this idea of S7 being the definitive answer to the question of the final season come from? Benioff and HBO were quoted as saying 7-8 seasons a few times a couple of years ago, and since then with Variety just this year -


In an exclusive interview with Variety, showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss said they are weighing wrapping up the Emmy-winning saga of Westeros and the battle for the Iron Throne with just 13 more episodes once this sixth season is over: seven episodes for season 7; six for the eighth and potential final season.

Clearly an abbreviated S7 and S8 would be all killer, no filler, so whilst there might only be those 13 episodes, I wouldn't be surprised if a couple were feature length and at least a full 2 seasons worth of 10 episode action was crammed into those 13 episodes.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Having now watched the episode (I've long since given up caring about spoilers in this), I thought the Arya thing was actually very well done. Everything in Meereen was fucking awful (as per) despite Dinklage's best efforts.

A Man must be a bit bereft though, in that big temple all on his own.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Also, Elliott Carver has stitched Tommen up like a kipper, the only question is whether dear old Margery has outsmarted him (probably not, she's a bit useless really).

That'll obviously end up with Cersei and Margery needing to be on the same side vs the Corbynistas.

[SvN]

This sums up the problem with the Ayra stuff much more eloquently than I could.


Personally I just think people are let down with Arya's portrayal. We've seen Arya be smart, be clever and crafty way before she even knew what the faceless men were. I remember in season 2 how well she hid her gender and identity after Yoren instructed her to hide it after leaving King's Landing. Only two people found out her gender and none found out her name.

And now we go to season 6. She is older, more seasoned and has been learning an assortment of skills from an order of assassins near mythos in their regard.

Just about everytime we've seen her we've seen Arya be smart, vicious, determined, pragmatic, etc.

Then we see her strolling around town completely carefree and then getting stabbed and tossed into a canal.

Wtf. Really? The reason so many people, who are being minimized and criticized as tinfoil hatters, made theories and ideas about what happened episode 7 is because we just could not wrap our minds around Arya's careless behavior in episode 7, her previous cautious behavior in episode 6, and then what happened to her last night in episode 8.

Now some are saying Arya was planning to lure the waif to the cave, but got stabbed first, but if that was the case she would have been much more prepared for anyone speaking or getting close to her, especially when the assassins shes trying to avoid are from a cabal of face changers.

Imagine if when the old woman approached her for the stab, Arya quickly dodges the knife slash and only sustains a slight nick, then disarms the Waif and tussles with her for a second before running and leading her to the cave. Then we see her spring her plan and kill the Waif in the dark.

This Arya would have been the Arya we've known and watched all these years. Instead we get Arya getting caught out, thrown into a river and stumbling into the home of an actress who just happens to be as skilled at suturing wounds as the nurse from Daredevil because she used to get stabby with her boyfriends. Really? It just sounds like such an asspull. She takes all these wounds, and then has a James Bond Casino Royale chase scene with the Waif acting as The Terminator after jumping from a two story building.

Our expectations of Arya being shattered along with this development just left a lot of people(including myself) very disappointed with this episode.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You could argue that the process has been her de-'smart'ing over a period of time, rather than training up - she's slowly realised that she doesn't want to be no one, she doesn't want to be A Girl, or indeed a boy, and she's gradually realised that she's a Stark and will stay a Stark, and the whole thing has reinforced her Stark identity after years away from the Starks, culminating in that line to A Man at the end. Could have done with a really clumsy direwolf image in the screenplay somewhere to back up my argument, but oh well.

That aside, it's just a holding pattern to keep the character somewhat in business and the actor in work, and we get to see Braavos which is quite a cool setting.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Bronn and The Hound were great, rest was a bit bleh.

That quote that SvN posted sums the Arya stuff up very well too.

I also assume that when we go back to Mereen the masters will have been defeated by the Dothraki/Drogon but we wont have seen shit which is bullshit.

Oh and purely based on the title of the next episode, it should be a cracker.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Didn't think they'd actually go with that for a title. :D

Preview for anyone who hasn't seen it-


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOzsR8Pk3TE

[phonics]

Am I an absolute monster or would most people not care that much about a 'wife' he's met once who we only got to marry as a way to off his family and all their mates and a child he's never seen?

Edmund sold out the only people alive that care he exists.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

I'm assuming it's mainly his son he's concerned about.

The Blackfish dying like that is a shitter though, don't even get to see him kick some arse a la Stannis.

[elth]

Tyrion trying to bond with Grey Worm and Melisande

I *hated* that scene. Hated every second of it. Was desperate for it to stop.

Somehow they took Dany out of Meereen and made it even more boring by having it focus on the two least interesting characters in the whole show - the two utterly dull ex-slaves. Varys and Tyrion's pointless bants aside, Meereen is where plot goes to die. It's bad in the books and it's unwatchable in the show IMO.

[elth]

It's the fact they had Arya poncing about in the last episode, completely oblivious to the obvious risk, openly allowing herself to get stabbed in the gut. They could easily have written a scenario with a similar ending but her at least staying true to her character.

It's the showrunners freelancing again. GRRM hasn't written (at least not publicly) how Arya gets out of Braavos yet so they made it up and, surprise surprise, they've utterly made a mess of it.

[elth]

Am I an absolute monster or would most people not care that much about a 'wife' he's met once who we only got to marry as a way to off his family and all their mates and a child he's never seen?

Edmund sold out the only people alive that care he exists.

I actually think it's the people in Riverrun that makes him yield the castle. He realises if Jaime assaults it everyone will die, and he's not willing to sacrifice his people for a lost cause. The war's over, he lost, and the Blackfish's stubbornness isn't a good enough reason to get all his men killed. He's going to live in exile at Casterly Rock either way, Riverrun will fall either way, the Blackfish will die either way - the only question is whether or not he makes Jaime siege his castle, destroy whatever's left of his lands, and annihilate his men along the way.

[Bernanke]

Man, the 4Chan-leak has been 95% true so far. I know at least one character who's going to bite the dust in the last episode. :moop:

That's what I get for "not caring about spoilers".

[Jimmy Floyd]

The two obvious questions are 1. What was Qyburn alluding to (the actor who plays him is so good), and 2. Where is Varys off to.

[Bernanke]

I'm fairly sure the Qyburn-thing hasn't been brought up in the show before, and I can see it being two things:

1. Wildfire
2. Tyrion

Leaning towards the first one.

[randomlegend]

Just watched it, really didn't think it was that bad. It has nothing on some of the season 5 dross.

[Lewis]

That episode preview makes it look like Littlecock and the Knights of the Vale will be rolling in at the last minute.

'But whose side are they on?'
*leg drops Jon Snow*

[Browning]

The WIldfire would make no sense because they were originally making it for Cersei before Tyrion took over, so it's hardly a "rumor".

[Bernanke]

The WIldfire would make no sense because they were originally making it for Cersei before Tyrion took over, so it's hardly a "rumor".

Not that Wildfire. The rumour was that the Mad King had the entire city lined with caches of it, I think they singled out the Sept of Baelor as one of the main places.

[ItalAussie]

The two obvious questions are 1. What was Qyburn alluding to (the actor who plays him is so good), and 2. Where is Varys off to.

I thought the answer to #1 is so obviously wildfire that it barely counts as a mystery.

The second one is a bit more of a puzzler. I'm currently leaning towards Dorne, because they're literally the only Westeros house from which Dnaerarerys could expect any support at all.

EDIT: Well, that or the Iron Islands, but they're coming to Dnaerearys to save her a trip.

[Browning]

Not that Wildfire. The rumour was that the Mad King had the entire city lined with caches of it, I think they singled out the Sept of Baelor as one of the main places.

Oh ok, I should have known that.

[Disco]

Varys has disappeared you say? I wondered when they were going to get around to this, the last series is going to have to be full to bursting.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Have I missed something with wildfire? I'm sure you're all right but I can't remember any other references to it in this series, other than Bran's dream thing which I thought was to do with the Mad King.

[Bernanke]

As dull as the story there has been this season, I actually think King's Landing could have a really strong ending.

According to the prophecy, Tommen should bite it soon enough, and that might set off Cersei. We also had this in Dany's vision from S3:

http://i.imgur.com/4ZIoAsi.jpg

Cersei will level the city. :nodd:

[Bernanke]

Have I missed something with wildfire? I'm sure you're all right but I can't remember any other references to it in this series, other than Bran's dream thing which I thought was to do with the Mad King.

Jaime revealed it in this scene I think:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBb3Q8VdYas

[phonics]

What prophecy?

[Bernanke]

What prophecy?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwHGNoMjHn8

"The king will have 20 children and you will have three. Gold will be their crowns . . . gold their shrouds."

[phonics]

Has she killed them all except Gendry at this point?

[ItalAussie]

Varys has disappeared you say? I wondered when they were going to get around to this, the last series is going to have to be full to bursting.

I'm fairly confident they've jettisoned that entire plotline from the books. Varys seems pretty much all in on Danaeryaereys.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Has she killed them all except Gendry at this point?

Yes.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hopefully Varys has gone to Dorne for a multi-episode attempt to win the support of the Sand Snakes.

Said no one ever.

[Bernanke]

Top episode that.

[elth]

The kind of episode that makes you forgive all the nonsensical garbage they fill up 6/10 episodes a season with.

[SvN]

The sequence at the start of the battle where it followed Jon was just incredible. As was the part where he was suffocating under the bodies.

It's a shame that Littlefinger saving the day ended up being predictable, but it was still satisfying seeing Ramsey beaten to a pulp.

[Bernanke]

Just read that the scene with the horses charging at Jon isn't CGI. They had 40 actual horses rushing towards him at full speed only to stop and break away in the last seconds. :drool:

[SvN]

I thought the CGI at the start with Daenerys and the dragons was absolutely superb by the way. Last week's episode showing none of the interesting bits makes more sense now.

[Vim]

The part where he was suffocating genuinely scared me, at least now I know what I have a fear of.

Like SvN said, the part when the camera was following Jon at the start of the battle was amazing. :drool:

Tyrion as a filter to Dany to keep her away from her Mad King urges also worked really well, great to see them working together.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Tyrion also happening to mention the wildfire the Mad King had all over the city...

[Lewis]

That was like when Stone Cold got his mojo back during the Invasion.

[John]

That was shit hot. Predictable as hell, I predicted one very specific beat after the third episode, but the battle itself was like Saving Private Ryan with axes. The bit at the beginning with Jon running at the cavalry and the shakycam stuff just focusing on him as everything goes bonkers around him were probably the best television action has ever been.

The writing around that was the same shoddy crap they've been doing all year though, selling out character for the sake of a nifty twist. Why wouldn't Sansa tell Jon that she's sent away for the support of the Vale (for which she can fuck right off, incidentally), other than to set up that moment when she arrives with Littlefinger and the Knights do the standard tardy saviour bit? The Mad Queen spent all night pissing around in her temple while the city was burning, seemingly so that it could be light outside when she went for a chat on that cliff.

The CGI was generally flawless, but there were two shots in Mereen, one of a dragon burning a boat and the one where the dragons smashed out through that wall, which looked quite poor.

Still, the battle was fucking good.

[Lofty]

It was a decent episode but Dany is so boring, it's always 'use the dragons' or 'contrived plot device that prevents use of dragons'.

At least a bit more thought goes into the other arcs.

[Vim]

Sansa not telling Jon about Littlefinger's help made no sense, but hey. I guess every big battle needs to have a third army coming in to save the day. Nothing beats Gandalf showing up at Helms Deep, obviously, but they always try to.

[GS]

That was fucking incredible.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Despite the flaws in some of the writing, I do like some of the hidden touches like House Umber's sigil being a giant and Tormund Giantsbane biting out Smalljon Umber's jugular.

[Lewis]

'Daws' almost won the day with his MINDGAMES as well. Stupid fucking Jon Snow.

[Bernanke]

Also, who'd have thought the Mother of Boredom would have one of her best character scenes with Yara fucking Greyjoy?

[ItalAussie]

Outstanding episode. Worth the cheaper episodes they needed in the lead-up to have the money to do it.

I was discussing it with a friend, who reckoned that Sansa keeping quiet about the backup army made sense if she had some uncertainty over whether they would be able to make it in time. Which would explain why she seemed so tense the evening before in her argument with Jon. She couldn't have him waiting for a Plan B on the battlefield that might never arrive. I'm kind of willing to accept that explanation, as everyone involved would largely be acting sensibly in their position.

[John]

If she'd told him when she first sent the message then the battle plans wouldn't have been drawn, and they could have waited as long as was necessary. They shat the bed for the sake of the underdog story and the late arrival of the rescue party.

[Mazuuurk]

Since the England game went to shits I watched this instead. Pretty good.

Some stuff about/from the books (no spoilers for TV show):

I was kind of wondering where the whole Littlefinger - Sansa thing was headed when he married her off to Ramsey instead of one of the Knights of the Vale like he at least intends to in the books, but now it seems it all kind of came together in the same outcome anyway somehow (or I mean, I assume, since most of this hasn't happened in the books yet)

Apart from that, Sansa is starting to become a bit of a badass. I also think Denaerys wasn't as insufferable this episode as she has been all season, all though I kind of hate it when she puts on her "badass look" and waits 3 seconds too long to say something.

Next episode will most likely end with:
- Denaerys sailing off to Westeros
- White walkers walking around close to the wall or something, giving it the old staredown
- Bran having some vision (100%) confirming R&L=J
- Sam meeting Ser Friendzone in Oldtown?
- Cersei burning down the sept of Baelor
- Arya showing up in White Harbour...?
- Varys meeting with someone in Westeros, most likely in Dorne


Another book-, but not TV-show spoiler:
*I assume Ser Friendzone is merged with the Jon Connington character from the books ('cause I'm sure the latter also has greyscale?), and that that other random Targaryan kid that shows up in the books is just not really important to the whole story, which is kind of nice because I thought it was a little stupid in the books when they introduced him

[Mazuuurk]

If she'd told him when she first sent the message then the battle plans wouldn't have been drawn, and they could have waited as long as was necessary. They shat the bed for the sake of the underdog story and the late arrival of the rescue party.

Agreed, it seemed retarded to not say anything. Only a plot device I reckon.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The battle was brilliant. Jon Snow was a fucking idiot for taking the bait at the start, but then it's classic Jon Snow and also what his equally daft father would have done. Tormund is a boss, although I'm not sure what the latest of Davos's rumbling glares was all about, don't tell me he's going to convert to the red wankers.

I've always liked Yara for some reason, even though the actress playing her is fucking awful. Not sure what the point of Theon is at this stage, but as Tyrion was at pains to point out, he's still alive, so he must have some future role to play.

The only thing that concerns me about Dany is every time she's down and out, she just turns it around in literally seconds with 'Yeah, dragons'. Based on what we've seen so far, she should be able to breeze through a broken Westeros in about twenty minutes, which might be militarily realistic given she basically has a full air force taking on a load of medieval swordsmen, but it's also not going to make for a compelling TV invasion.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

The battle was brilliant. Jon Snow was a fucking idiot for taking the bait at the start, but then it's classic Jon Snow and also what his equally daft father would have done. Tormund is a boss, although I'm not sure what the latest of Davos's rumbling glares was all about, don't tell me he's going to convert to the red wankers.

I've always liked Yara for some reason, even though the actress playing her is fucking awful. Not sure what the point of Theon is at this stage, but as Tyrion was at pains to point out, he's still alive, so he must have some future role to play.

The only thing that concerns me about Dany is every time she's down and out, she just turns it around in literally seconds with 'Yeah, dragons'. Based on what we've seen so far, she should be able to breeze through a broken Westeros in about twenty minutes, which might be militarily realistic given she basically has a full air force taking on a load of medieval swordsmen, but it's also not going to make for a compelling TV invasion.

He never knew what happened to Shireen until he found the burned stag on the pyre where she was burned.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not that one, the one in Winterfell at the end when Melisandre is sitting up in the ramparts, it was as if he was thinking 'well fuck her, but she's won again'.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

He's wanting to crucify her.

[SvN]

I don't understand your confusion. He's found out that she sacrificed Shireen and wants to smash her face in.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It wasn't all that explicit if like me you can barely remember the contents of previous series.

[Mazuuurk]

The only thing that concerns me about Dany is every time she's down and out, she just turns it around in literally seconds with 'Yeah, dragons'. Based on what we've seen so far, she should be able to breeze through a broken Westeros in about twenty minutes, which might be militarily realistic given she basically has a full air force taking on a load of medieval swordsmen, but it's also not going to make for a compelling TV invasion.

Presumably, that's exactly what she will do, up until the point & fact that she won't be able to head into the north with a whole bunch of horses trying to head across Moat Cailin, at which point she's gonna have to marry her cousin Jon (or whatever they are supposed to be), and the main purpose of the dragons will be to fry white walkers to be honest.

But then she could likely win a battle against a whole army with the dragons alone, save if she was hit by an arrow.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There's nothing I want to see less than a dragons v white walkers battle. Make it interesting, George/HBO/whoever actually writes this.

[Mazuuurk]

Well, then what...? How to stop the White walkers but with Dragons? And also, whats sucks so much about that? Sounds like it could actually be some sort of even fight. After all, the whole thing is called A song of Fire and Ice, right? Where else would it end?

What's more uninteresting really is watching the Dragons continously pummeling whole armies, and/or White walkers getting an army of like several million zombies when the largest army in Westeros is/was like 50.000 men, presumably.

[Bernanke]

Yeah, I don't see how the WW beat the dragons really. I mean, the Night King has some minor raise the dead-magic, but anti-air? Nah.

[randomlegend]

There were loads of dragons about in the old days right? So yeah they've gone and dicked on all the unprepared nooblords, but you'd imagine some of the old school houses will have some tricks for dealing with them.

[Disco]

In Valyria maybe, the Targaryens brought theirs with them and fucked everyone up. The current houses are the ones who surrendered or made deals, no-one had any real defence against them.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You can't defend against dragons as depicted in the recent Meereen scenes. Nothing else inhabits the air. The only way to get rid of them would be to sneak up on them when sleeping (doesn't this happen in the Hobbit, or am I making that up? I haven't read it since I was about six).

Also, is it me or is this world basically in technological stasis?

[Disco]

The whole Targaryen dynasty only lasted a few hundred years but I get what you mean.

The dragon in the hobbit gets shot down (by someone's grandson, because anyone useful had to have a badass grandpa) but there is a bit where Bilbo sneaks up on him.

[Lewis]

I said that on the old board. The Andals turned up however many thousand years ago with Iron Age weapons, and what have they done since? Isn't there a theory that it's all set in a post-apocalyptic universe? That could explain it, provided people had used every possible relic up over the previous years to leave no trace of it.

[randomlegend]

You can't defend against dragons as depicted in the recent Meereen scenes. Nothing else inhabits the air. The only way to get rid of them would be to sneak up on them when sleeping (doesn't this happen in the Hobbit, or am I making that up? I haven't read it since I was about six).

Also, is it me or is this world basically in technological stasis?

Surely some big old ballista thing like in Age of Empires would be worth a shout? Or surface to air missiles?

[Disco]

Do they even have crossbows? It's ages since I read them but I don't remember there being a big emphasis on bows at all. Normally in these things you get at least one character who'se defining trait is 'can shoot stuff with arrows' but I can't think of one.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Sansa seems to be turning into an even more humourless verison of her mother. Probably the best acted 'character development' out of any of the main players, mind.

They had a lot of archers in this latest battle, but those were elite Bolton forces (lol at all the northern lords getting mugged off and Little Miss Mormont backing the winning side).

[SvN]

Do they even have crossbows?


Yep.

http://i.imgur.com/QJu5faP.png

[Disco]

Yep.

http://i.imgur.com/QJu5faP.png

Oh yeah, makes me wonder why they aren't more prevalent. They'd be the perfect antidote to heavily armoured knights and easily scalable into ballista. They already have rudimentary mangonels, it's not much of a stretch.

[SvN]

A crossbow is superior for the first shot, but reloading takes a lot longer, and they're heavier. A skilled archer with a bow would be better in a battle.

[Mazuuurk]

Yeah, I don't see how the WW beat the dragons really. I mean, the Night King has some minor raise the dead-magic, but anti-air? Nah.

Well, they have some sort of Anti-fire magic, don't they? Didn't you see how they walked through the Ring of fire that the Children of the Forest created outside the Cave Bran was in? It seemed quite an obvious to me that they showed that to manifest that the Night King and his pals have some more Ice-powers than just raising the dead.




Also, is it me or is this world basically in technological stasis?

It's not you, but no Fantasy worlds seem to make much technological headway ever. If you look at Tolkiens world, it seemed to remain the same for thousands and thousands of years. The notion that you make technological headway over time would be downright counter-productive to a lot of the stories set in traditional Fantasy worlds.

That said, the notion does seem like a pretty cool one to explore for something a little fresh (I'm sure numerous books do this).

But Game of Thrones is still very old-school Fantasy, after all.


Do they even have crossbows? It's ages since I read them but I don't remember there being a big emphasis on bows at all. Normally in these things you get at least one character who'se defining trait is 'can shoot stuff with arrows' but I can't think of one.


That would be Theon. At least he was a good bow-shot before he went to general scum. Also Ramsey, but now he's gone (and contrary to Theon, Ramsey's TV character was quite different from the books, where he seemed generally very inept at, well, almost everything).

[John]

Do they have any sort of heavy siege machinery in Westeros? The 'Masters' had trebuchets on their boats but I can't remember seeing anything more advanced than a battering ram at Blackwater.

[Mazuuurk]

Sansa seems to be turning into an even more humourless verison of her mother. Probably the best acted 'character development' out of any of the main players, mind.


But, I'd wager mr Hound is up there as well.

[Mazuuurk]

Do they have any sort of heavy siege machinery in Westeros? The 'Masters' had trebuchets on their boats but I can't remember seeing anything more advanced than a battering ram at Blackwater.

They can't, right? Or why else would they be conducting these year-long seiges over and over.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Lannisters seemed to have some sort of catapults at Riverrun, and I remember in the books they definitely had them at the (land-based) Siege of Meereen as they were launching plague infected bodies over the walls.

[Disco]

A crossbow is superior for the first shot, but reloading takes a lot longer, and they're heavier. A skilled archer with a bow would be better in a battle.

Yeah but any schlub can point it and pull the trigger and they have a lot more stopping power plus you can protect them with infantry that they already have. They're what put paid to knights rolling around in giant suits of metal so you would think someone in Westeros would have thought of that.

[Disco]

Do they have any sort of heavy siege machinery in Westeros? The 'Masters' had trebuchets on their boats but I can't remember seeing anything more advanced than a battering ram at Blackwater.

They were attacking by boat so there's a limit to what you can bring with you and how effective it will be at breaking down a wall. The gate is also always going to be the weakest point so it's debateable whether there'd be much point in going after the walls. Doesn't explain why they don't have larger siege weaponry though, catapults at the very least would have made mincemeat of Riverrun by now.

[Kikó]

Despite this snorefest about weaponry, that episode was absolutely great. As mentioned, the scene with Jon was outstanding and I love that Bolton couldn't even let us have a tender goodbye with the giant and shot him in the eye. Brilliant last bit of bastardry.

Daneery's still managed to bore her way through a pretty cool scene. At least it wasn't a complete shit fest around there for once. The girl power stuff was a bit naff but I like the big lesbian, she's funny.

[Disco]

You never had it so good.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Jon :cool: :drool:

Tormund :cool:

Wun Wun :cool: :cry:

I absolutely loved it, the battle was nailed on I thought. From the start with Ramsay playing his mind games again to get Jon right out of his plan, following him, looking like a defeated man because the God of light is a prick, the suffocating. It was all right (bar the Vale turning up because Sansa asked Littlefinger but told Jon they'd never have the numbers), it was also probably the best episode in terms of visuals. Even though Dany tried to ruin the Mereen scenes again (although I did like the bit with Yara and Theon), the dragons were stunning.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Tormund is just brilliant whenever he's on screen. The actor is some form of genius.

[phonics]

The guy gets more emotion out of six syllables than the translator girl did looking at Greyworms non existent knob for 3 episodes.

[Bernanke]

I loved Tormund not understanding tactical military terms.

"It means they cannot attack us from the sides."

"Gud."

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGzwKLjOJfc

So damn good.

[Dquincy]

It's a bit odd that some of you are discussing real world weaponry and battle tactics for a fantasy fiction tv show.

It's not real, so why try to apply real world facts to it or predict what will be happening next. If the writer wants to write in that the dragon kills someone by dry humping them, then he'll do so.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We did it specifically to irritate you.

[SvN]

Oh, look who's come crawling back.

[Dquincy]

Nobody's crawling, sugar tits.

[Serj]

Just saw the episode. Visually, it was incredible, especially the dragon parts and Jon almost suffocating under the bodies.

I had just hoped that the battle would be more of a battle of wits. It was the second time somebody attacked the Boltons out of desperation and something more than Littlefinger ex machina resolving the issue would have been nice (fuck off, Sansa, with your withholding of information (http://theweek.com/articles/631406/game-thrones-sansa-problem)). Definitely in character for Jon, of course, but not particularly interesting or new in terms of the story, I thought. Made up for by the great fight scenes, though.

The Iron Islanders rocking up at Meereen made the dialogues over there instantly more interesting. Missandei and Grey Worm are probably even more dull than I had thought.

[elth]

Dany, Missandei and Grey Worm. Meereen never had a chance to be interesting.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Even chucking Varys and Tyrion into the pot hasn't helped.

[Jimmy Floyd]

To be fair, they haven't yet had the chance to have a scene where Jon goes 'Sansa? WTF?'. If they don't by the end of the series it's definitely a cop out though.

I'm sure Littlefinger's done a fair amount of teleporting during this series, too.

[Dquincy]

I want Littlefinger to fuck Sansa. Or certainly slip in his little finger.

[Ian]

The episode looked the business and the action was good but storywise nothing really improved.

Still, at least Dragonwoman can be immediately won over by a woman who wants to be in charge of something.

[Cord]

I was pleased someone finally pointed out to her that she pretty much only speaks in threats to kill people.

I'm hoping they do go down the nutter route with her. It's the only way they can rescue the six seasons of tedium she's made us suffer through. Otherwise good episode. Glad to be rid of Ramsey, as he was always too one note to be any good.

Generally seems the more reasonable characters are starting to recover and get into positions of power. I assume what we are building to is the remenants coming together to make up a ragtag band to fight off the zombies once they've finished their scenic tour of the northern wastelands. Basically just need Cersei/The Sparrow to go boom and randomly appearing pirate uncle to get inevitably eaten by a dragon and we're basically out of human baddies aren't we?

[Jimmy Floyd]

What have the white walkers been up to? Having a team building session somewhere? Putting on their own production of Les Miserables? It's the slowest moving unstoppable invasion you could dream up.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They like the scenic route.

[John]

They'll be having a fucking party if they pitch up outside Winterfell any time soon.

[Dquincy]

Is All Bran still on the other side of the wall? How he hasn't been slaughtered by the white walkers I don't know.