Game of Thrones Series 6: sponsored by Clarke Excitement Vacuum vs. Dinklage

[Ian]

Is Jon Snerr dead? (No.)
Is Bran's story going to get more interesting? (Maybe.)
Will we miss Stannis the Mannis despite him turning into a turbocunt last series? (Yes.)

And more importantly, what's Peter Dinklage going to have to do to overcome Dany's black hole of scene-ruining snooze?

https://media.giphy.com/media/1iAQLpW2DRW2k/giphy.gif

This is for discussion of the programme once it starts and HOORAY we're not going to have to worry about book stuff! I think? Has anything been revealed in the Winds of Winter preview bits that we haven't seen yet? If so then I guess don't mention that because banhammer.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

I've watched the trailers but I've been avoiding all gossip/rumours/potential spoilers thus far.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

More than likely but who is reading the preview stuff knowing they'll have to wait ANOTHER fucking year for more.

Fuck George.

Dinklage is finally going to bring something good to Clarke's scenes.

[GS]

Any future spoilers / rumours etc. etc. should be spoilered. I want nothing ruined for me. :moop:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

In terms of the poll.

I think he'll live to release the 6th but die about 5 years later. That would mean, by his writing speed, that he'd have about 3% of the book finished.

[Raoul Duke]

"I drink and I know things" is a fantastic line.

[Lewis]

Does anybody else regret getting into it? We're FIVE YEARS in, and now I have to commit myself to watching all of this.

'Jorah. Jorah, Jorah. Jorah, Jorah. Jorah, Jorah Mor-mont.'

[GS]

The redemption of Ser Friendzone was a nice moment, I thought.

[The Merse]

And now for an entire season of him giving us quick glimpses of the stoney flesh, progressively getting worse, but not quite a rate that will finish him off before he makes a glorious suicide mission-style exit around ep 8/9...

[Byron]

The redemption of Ser Friendzone was a nice moment, I thought.

I'm still going to lay claim to Ser Friendzone being introduced to TTH.

Call it an e-victory if you will.

Anyway, less Clarke is good Clarke. I'm holding out hope that the Hound is still alive and hoping Theon has grown some balls at last (arf)

[Jimmy Floyd]

Dinklage carries the whole show now Charles Dance isn't there to help him.

Varys also dons but rarely on these days.

[Raoul Duke]

Little Finger is boss too

[Lewis]

He was until you noticed his accent going all over the shop, after which point you start to focus on that instead of whatever he is doing.

[Bernanke]

Last season was awful. Just replace every Jeb in this with S5 and it sums up my feelings on it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-McIdVuY88

I'll still watch because lol what else am I gonna do for that hour.

[ItalAussie]

How much freedom do they have to write their own story this season? Presumably Martin still wants control, but I have to imagine that the studio is giving him less and less concern.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

http://winteriscoming.net/2016/02/17/george-r-r-martin-i-am-not-writing-anything-until-i-deliver-winds-of-winter/

I assume he'll be whispering in their ear but that article makes it sound like the publishers are seething at him.

[GS]

I imagine there's a hell of a lot of material prepared for the individual character stories, so presumably he's informed the script writers what the main story arcs are and what the final 'outcome(s)' will be.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They made him tell them the final outcome when they first started producing the show, they've always been worried that he'd pop his clogs before he finished it all.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

I've read rumours the first episode has leaked, nothing on BTN though.

[Ian]

I've talked about this before but I still love that when he was invited along to see how they were getting along in making a Game of Thrones game a few years ago he complained that they'd made The Wall wrong, they told him they'd followed the exact description of it's dimensions that he'd put in the book and he said he'd made it far larger than he intended.

Useless shit.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Wall is a bit silly. Would work better as a very big, but realistic size as opposed to its unbelievable gargantuan size.

[Raoul Duke]

The best thing about it is that he got Mexico to pay for it

[Henry]

I stopped watching it when they killed Joffrey. Maybe I'm understimulated but several of the storylines seemed to be going nowhere.

[ItalAussie]

I imagine there's a hell of a lot of material prepared for the individual character stories, so presumably he's informed the script writers what the main story arcs are and what the final 'outcome(s)' will be.

The thing I'm really wondering is how bound they feel to follow that material? And whether they trust Martin not to hold some stuff back.

[ItalAussie]

I stopped watching it when they killed Joffrey. Maybe I'm understimulated but several of the storylines seemed to be going nowhere.

I've found this. I'm totally unclear as to what I'm supposed to hope is going to happen. It doesn't even really feel like a saga at the moment so much as a relatively unconnected series of things what happened.

[Disco]

Anyone working off stuff Martin has provided is going to be disappointed when he changes everything without telling anyone, making a tv series before he'd written the end was a pretty silly move. They should have just bought the rights and sat on them until he finished (or died and someone vaguely competent finished it off for him). Right now you have a story which has already split off from the books and is wallowing in the directionless pap that crept into the later ones, inevitably alienating part of your audience.

[ItalAussie]

Anyone working off stuff Martin has provided is going to be disappointed when he changes everything without telling anyone, making a tv series before he'd written the end was a pretty silly move. They should have just bought the rights and sat on them until he finished (or died and someone vaguely competent finished it off for him). Right now you have a story which has already split off from the books and is wallowing in the directionless pap that crept into the later ones, inevitably alienating part of your audience.You reckon they'd have been willing to buy the rights then sit on them for a totally undetermined period of time, which Martin doesn't seem to be in any hurry to speed up?

[Disco]

Well ok, they could have waited to buy them then. Either way if they waited until the books were done before making the series it could have worked a lot better rather than aimlessly flapping around waiting for new story to appear. If he ends up writing an enormous last book they'll need either extra series or to rush it, far better to know how you're going to end it before you start and get the pacing right.

[John]

They'd definitely have had a more coherent and consistent show if they'd gone that way, and I imagine the current makeup of characters would be vastly different if they didn't have to hold off on killing someone incase Martin decided to build the story around them two books from now, but there's no chance they'd sit on the rights to something this good for fifteen years.

[Browning]

Supposedly Martin has a plan for a "big twist" in the next book that involves someone who is dead in the show, so yea... they've already fucked it.

[Disco]

Yeah, I'm only looking at it from a 'how could it have been as good as possible' point of view. Coming at it as a reader of the books this outcome was nailed on from the start and it's just a bit of a shame that the series I would want to watch won't happen.

[Pepe]

I stopped watching it when they killed Joffrey. Maybe I'm understimulated but several of the storylines seemed to be going nowhere.


I've found this. I'm totally unclear as to what I'm supposed to hope is going to happen. It doesn't even really feel like a saga at the moment so much as a relatively unconnected series of things what happened.

Agree with that. Started ok but it has been getting consistently worse and worse and is currently bordering on won't bother any more territory.

[Pepe]

They should just tell that Martin fella to fuck off and hire someone who can write to steer the ship in the right direction.

[ItalAussie]

I'm definitely going to watch through to the end. I think(/hope) the narrative might get a little more focussed this season, as most of the characters left have the feel of being around for the end-game.

In terms of characters who will likely play a role in the over-arching conclusion of the story, I think it's:
Jamie, Cersei and Tyrion
Jon (assuming he's not dead/doesn't stay dead), Arya, Bran and Sansa
Dnayaeryeres
Littlefinger and Varys

Outside of that, it seems like everyone is pretty expendable. But at least towards the end of last season, it did seem like to story was set up to tighten the focus on those characters.

[John]

Jon Snow definitely isn't dead. It's appalling storytelling if he is. I reckon Jorah the Explorer will have a massive part to play in the ending, either having set something in motion that pays off down the line or through the Crafter of Nicknames unexpectedly finding a way to cure him.

[ItalAussie]

Another thing that bugs me is that, while I'm totally fine with character deaths, wiping out too many characters makes the early conflicts feel hollow. Why did we bother watching a war between two armies whose leaders would both be dead in a season or two anyway? What was the point of all the Stannis stuff? Or the big war between the Starks and Lannisters? None of it seems like it mattered all that much in the end, and that's a nasty thing to do to the viewers. It makes it difficult to believe that there are any real stakes associated with the events that occur.

As a concrete example, I'm clearly supposed to be bothered that Margaery is in prison, but to be honest, I have her pegged as "definitely not seeing the end of the series" anyway, so I don't really see her situation as having any great import in the big scheme of things.

[ItalAussie]

Jon Snow definitely isn't dead. It's appalling storytelling if he is. I reckon Jorah the Explorer will have a massive part to play in the ending, either having set something in motion that pays off down the line or through the Crafter of Nicknames unexpectedly finding a way to cure him.
The problem is that everyone has some part to play, which is how they can justify these long shaggy dog stories. Someone did something that made someone else meet someone who fired an arrow in the final battle that killed someone which turned the tide of the war.

I find it hard to believe that Jorah survives the next season, to be honest. He has heroic sacrifice written all over him.

[ItalAussie]

The other thing that bugs me is the lack of payoff for stories that they've put together. If the stories had some kind of satisfying ending, it wouldn't matter that they don't really mean that much. Joffrey is the obvious example, because everyone wanted that guy to get his comeuppance. Choked at his wedding due to subtly non-specific assassination? It's hard to derive any satisfaction from that. We spent so long hating him, and seeing him as probably the main antagonist of the series, and it turns out that he didn't matter at all.

Joffrey disappearing also leaves a massive gap for the role of "obvious hate-figure", which the series needed more than I think it realised it did. I realise that the Boltons are supposed to be that, but again, nothing about them suggests that they have any bigger role to play than "intermediate nastiness". At some point, someone's going to wipe them out to establish their bona fides, and that'll be that.

[John]

I moaned about all of those things, and several others, in a ranty review of the finale last year. I think that might have been the first time I was dubbed a 'joyless cunt'.

They're excellent at crafting moments, but since the end of the first season they've been getting progressively worse at linking them together with anything but fluff. The other big problem is that even as they're bringing some characters together the number of regions is actually expanding, which leads to nonsense like Dorne having a population of twelve and the Royal palace being guarded by three fighty teenagers.

Last season was comfortably the worst of the lot, so hopefully they rebound now that they get to draw a bit more of their own map.

[Ian]

I reckon the only death I'd be properly surprised by at this point would be Daenerys. When you kill fucking everybody off it makes it hard to care.

Ramsay Snow is getting a sword through him at some point but as Ital said, he's not really that big a deal anyway.

[ItalAussie]

Also, Arya is 100% definitely going to be asked to assassinate Sansa at some point.

There just has to be some payoff to the whole "it's about the Starks, look at the Starks and their familyness of obvious destiny" which was the running undercurrent to season one. To split them all up and have them basically play no role of any significance has rendered that largely moot.

[Raoul Duke]

Surely the whole thing is lining up to be humans vs. White Walkers? It's classic good vs. evil/Fire vs. Ice/red vs. blue.

The manoeuvring around now is simply to thin the herd so that someone (Jon Snow) can bring it all together, 'uniting the kingdoms in the face of great peril', probably whilst porking Danerysysys, assisted by The Imp providing some lulz in the background and Bran, Arya and Sansa as secondary characters.

That's basically it apart from the Lannisters, and they're pretty much stuck in their squabbles with the mental Spanish-y people who poisoned their kid.

[simon]

I only recently watched this and I've enjoyed all of it. I'm actually pretty surprised at what I've just read. Even though we're generally quite critical as a board, I would've thought this show would've had everyone buzzing, like The Wire or Breaking Bad.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's not close to the class of The Wire (not seen BB). Cracking yarn though.

The last series was quite lazily assembled, but it's far from irredeemable.

[Disco]

It's not even a patch on Breaking Bad let alone The Wire, both of those outclass it in every respect. Not that that's particularly damning, nothing else gets very close either.

[Mike]

Apparently the episode has leaked online. I've not bothered to find it though, I shall wait for some lovely HD action tomorrow.

How we handling spoilers here btw? The usual once its been on TV in the UK in the evening its all good spoiler-wise. And nothing along the lines "well this will happen as it's in the books"

Oh and this isn't even close to being as good as The Wire.

[John]

Bang on. If it's aired in the UK it's fair game. On the old board we had a thread for the books so let anyone who wants to run a book to show comparison start that again.

[Mike]

Perfect! :D

I've had a number of excited texts from someone at work today about this. She's watching it on 'some dodgy box' for the first time and is worried it'll fail so I've got strict instructions to download it and bring it in in the morning... lucky me!

[John]

I'd hope it goes without saying that the 'simulcast' they're doing tonight for the first episode doesn't count as it actually having aired here, but then I don't know if Magic and Diljeet watch this, so there we are.

End of episode on a Monday night is the threshold.

[John]

There's a 'best of' thing on Sky Atlantic now which is serving as quite a nifty little catch up. Look out for what the 'Osha' actress is wearing when she appears. It's like thought she was turning up to do an episode.

[elth]

I think the issue the showrunners have is that Martin thinks backstory is more important than story. He spends most of the books establishing things, but thus far he's forgotten to advance the plot very far, which means the interpersonal drama is all the showrunners have to go with, which is why it all feels a bit Days of Our Lives except everyone died rather than getting amnesia.

The good news is that with only two seasons left of the show and Martin's meanderings now largely exhausted, the TV version can get on with things. The bad news is that so far when the TV version has freelanced it's largely ballsed it up.

I still find it very enjoyable, mind, but it's firmly trashy good rather than actually good these days.

[Mazuuurk]

Spot on, elth.

[John]

There's definitely a chance that they need the framework, such as it is that the books provide, but as far as I understand the book deviations they're about fifty fifty on those. The biggest, most fertile balls have all come directly from book material. Like keeping the Chewer of Scenery apart from the main action for a billion years.

They say there's two seasons to go but given where everyone is now it'll feel hugely rushed if it's done in twenty hours. If you meant two seasons after this one, maybe.

[Mazuuurk]

Am I allowed to put spoilers within spoiler tags, or just not at all?

[SvN]

I'm not sure why last night doesn't count as it having aired, to be honest.

[Byron]

I don't think it airs in the UK until 9?

[SvN]

It was on at 2am this morning.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Because who the fuck watches TV between 2 and 3am on a work night.

[phonics]

It was on at 2am this morning.

Ah yes, prime time viewing!

[SvN]

Easy enough to avoid the thread if you didn't watch it and you're opting to wait for the replay. Not a big deal at all, just unusual to ban "spoilers" even after it's been aired on UK TV.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Tbf, the threads on the old board were all at US pace.

[Mazuuurk]

OK, then fuck it. Not sure this is even a "real" spoiler anyway, as I haven't seen the episode, only read about what happens in it.

Seems like fuck all is happening. Fuck that shit. Waiting for a few more to come out at least before I start to watch this. Still need to watch the last episode of last season as well, haven't been bothered with that yet.


EDIT: If I'm out of line here, anyone, then just delete this or whatever.

[Disco]

There's definitely a chance that they need the framework, such as it is that the books provide, but as far as I understand the book deviations they're about fifty fifty on those. The biggest, most fertile balls have all come directly from book material. Like keeping the Chewer of Scenery apart from the main action for a billion years.

They say there's two seasons to go but given where everyone is now it'll feel hugely rushed if it's done in twenty hours. If you meant two seasons after this one, maybe.

The books are at pretty much the same point, one or two plot points aside. There's either an awful lot that has to happen in a relatively short space or it's off in a direction I'm not expecting.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I think the books are in a little better shape but yeah, it seems that a lot has been left to somehow come together in a fairly short space of time.

[John]

They didn't seem to hammer the advertising for the simulcast the same way this year as they did last, so it would have been easy enough to forget they were doing it. I only remembered because I happened to scroll past the channel when an advert was on. Last year it was all over the football coverage and presumably everything else. I decided it was easier for the two people who did bother staying up to watch it to spoiler their thoughts than the thirty who didn't to remember it had been on and avoid the thread or die. I've acknowledged before that I'm overcautious with spoilers though, so if you all agree that the middle of the night counts then have at it.

As it turns out, the only spoiler tag so far is completely without value.


The books are at pretty much the same point, one or two plot points aside. There's either an awful lot that has to happen in a relatively short space or it's off in a direction I'm not expecting.

He's published five of seven, right? That would roughly tally with another two seasons, but I just can't see how it resolves from here in two years. For example, if the Eater of Toast is going to be the winner, how fucking rushed would it feel for her to just fly across and blitz everyone from here having spent five years dossing around with the slaves? They've spent five years setting up an emo girl with dragons to the south and an army of frozen zombies to the north. How do you not spend the same again resolving it from there?

By the way, the actor who plays the head of the Jotunheim crew was on that 'best of' program last night and he's a dead ringer for Martin Amis.

[Lewis]

SvN is right, but until everyone accepts it:

That episode would appear to confirm what elth was saying further up, since more happened in that than the first eight of the last series. I thought the fruity Dornish prince was going to surprise us and be fucking mega, but... Oh. Right.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Could have done without seeing fucking female gollum naked though. Christ alive.

[Disco]

He's published five of seven, right? That would roughly tally with another two seasons, but I just can't see how it resolves from here in two years. For example, if the Eater of Toast is going to be the winner, how fucking rushed would it feel for her to just fly across and blitz everyone from here having spent five years dossing around with the slaves? They've spent five years setting up an emo girl with dragons to the south and an army of frozen zombies to the north. How do you not spend the same again resolving it from there?

It would be standard fantasy doorstopper fare for him to suddenly decide one of those remaining novels needs to be split into two, he did it with Storm of Swords by simply taking half the POV's and sticking them in one book so you had half the plot advancing and half standing still. Not such a problem for publishers as an extra book is another £8.99 from everyone but it would royally bone the continuity of the series. He's just generally unreliable, hence my posts about waiting until it was finished, or at the very least giving him a longer head start.

It's not quite Babylon 5 levels of dickery but it has the potential to be up there.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

It would be standard fantasy doorstopper fare for him to suddenly decide one of those remaining novels needs to be split into two, he did it with Storm of Swords by simply taking half the POV's and sticking them in one book so you had half the plot advancing and half standing still. Not such a problem for publishers as an extra book is another £8.99 from everyone but it would royally bone the continuity of the series. He's just generally unreliable, hence my posts about waiting until it was finished, or at the very least giving him a longer head start.

It's not quite Babylon 5 levels of dickery but it has the potential to be up there.

That really was batshit mental, especially considering Storm of Swords featured all the shit characters.

[Browning]

Sorry I thought we were talking about DWD. I can't remember Swords being split up.

[GS]

It was Feast for Crows (#4) which featured the 'less popular' characters, rather than Dance with Dragons (#5).

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Of course, Storm of Swords was actually the best of the lot.

I'm not even sure how I made it through Feast for Crows.

[GS]

Whatever else you want to say about the series or the author, the books themselves are incredibly readable. I read them all within a month last June or so.

[Disco]

Oh yeah, I gave up on the series sometime during the second one but I'm gagging for more of the books. The dicking around only makes it all the more frustrating because the end product is so compelling.

[Browning]

Yea, originally I posted saying DWD was better simply because it had no Bran but then I got confused why we were talking about Storm of Swords, which is the best one. FFC was the worst but I still enjoyed it other than Bran.

As to the new episode (which was already on Demand on NOW TV when I woke up which is nice).

Found it quite disappointing, although I guess my expectations were probably too high. It seems to be setting stuff up for later, which is probably fine. The highlights were probably Podrick turning up with a sword and Dinklage's delivery of "Because you have no cock"..

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why is this all so fucking dark? I can't see a thing.

[Ian]

Just finished. Yawn.

[Bernanke]

Fucking lol @ the Dornish storyline. I want a montage of all of those scenes as standalone just to experience how bad it is.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's like they've cast all the worst actors they can possibly find.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Why is this all so fucking dark? I can't see a thing.

Indeed.

Lost was the worst for this though, trying to see what was happening in a dark jungle on a laptop was the fucking pits.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm in a large room with a large TV but I've had to employ 1940s air raid conditions to have any chance of seeing what's going on.

[Kikó]

Ending with a depressed old naked woman was quite an apt ending.

[Cord]

The first episodes are always just about checking in with everyone rather than anything exciting happening.

Dorne (or more accurately, the Sand Snakes) remain awful shite however. Good job on disposing the sole potentially interesting character in that whole nonsensical timewaste of a storyline.

[Browning]

I really can't see where the Dorne storyline goes from there. Killing off Myrcella already had it feeling even more pointless than it already was.... now they may as well just pull the plug on it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Dorne thing is confusing. The Human League member who stabbed Doran to take control with her absolutely awful sidekicks and then do what?

Daenaerys back in a tricky position with Dothraki and various bearded men looking for her, might as well not have had the last four series.

[Cord]

I was at least slightly relieved when the Dothraki fella turned out to be fairly reasonable. If it had been another cartoon evil stereotyped foreigner to take the piss out of her right up to the point at which he gets eaten by a dragon, it would have been an exact copy of all her other storylines.

He'll still get eaten by a dragon, though. But at least he might be reasonable about it.

[John]

The Dothraki scene was the second best thing in that episode, after Tyrion and Varys doing an exhausted State of the Union address to eachother. Hang around a while, Moro. We just clocked the real Red Tits for the first time and your sums might need redoing.

Wasn't that Prince who got Sand Snaked in the nostril in Westeros? How did those two shithouses get there to fill him in without the massive ship with Jaime's Incest Express spotting them?

Bit of a shame that they've dispensed with Alexander Siddig already. He's a great actor, and could definitely have fit seamlessly into this show the same way Oberynn did in the quieter moments. As it is we've got Luther's shit wife and her inexplicably 2011 bitchy daughters running the show there now, which means more arse and more tit and more crying and less quality.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oberyn was an absolute don.

[Lewis]

I'm not sure what Dorne can do for 'revenge' that them tarts couldn't have done on their own. Didn't they preserve their independence and customs precisely because they have never been run by hot-headed clowns?

[John]

Oberyn was an absolute don.

:nodd:

The best short term character they've had. I reckon if Martin's books had already expired by that point they'd have kept him around and fucked the zombie Mountain idea off as the nonsense it is.

[Lewis]

That fight they had was the best bit of the entire programme by miles.

[John]

The best scene was Oberyn telling Tyrion about the time he saw him as a child with 'a little pink cock', closely followed by Tyrion losing the plot in his trial. The fight was quality, but I reckon it'd have been much better without the 'twist', had Oberyn just wiped the tall twat out. Even the storylines that would have opened up are more interesting than the ones they've pursued.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The Dothraki scene was the second best thing in that episode, after Tyrion and Varys doing an exhausted State of the Union address to eachother. Hang around a while, Moro. We just clocked the real Red Tits for the first time and your sums might need redoing.

Wasn't that Prince who got Sand Snaked in the nostril in Westeros? How did those two shithouses get there to fill him in without the massive ship with Jaime's Incest Express spotting them?

Bit of a shame that they've dispensed with Alexander Siddig already. He's a great actor, and could definitely have fit seamlessly into this show the same way Oberynn did in the quieter moments. As it is we've got Luther's shit wife and her inexplicably 2011 bitchy daughters running the show there now, which means more arse and more tit and more crying and less quality.

Tystane was the one who was betrothed to Myrcella.

The only Dornish that went to Westeros were Oberyn and Ellaria I believe but she is the one who killed Doran.

[ItalAussie]

Alexander Siddig may just be the most wasted actor any series has every employed.

Also, I feel like them burning the ships was a deliberate middle finger to people who would like the Danaeryereys plotline to actually go somewhere.

[ItalAussie]

Other stray thoughts:

Two of the most recognisable people on their planet, Tyrion and Varys, were just wandering around Meereen talking about how causally people are being murdered while wearing the thinnest disguise ever worn (we're merchants!). Then wandering in the direction people were running from like it's no big thing.

When the dogs caught up with Sansa and Theon, I was about ready to lose it entirely. They spent so long getting away from the castle that if they got taken straight back, I don't know how I'd have dealt with it. Now I just want the four of them to run away and be happy somewhere. Sansa can hook up with Pod - I'd be totally alright with that.

Arya was fun, but she'd better not have a second successive season-long training montage. Give her a stick, play the Rocky music, then let her loose on Westeros. There was something amusing about everyone else's total disinterest to the girl beating up on the blind peasant, though.

Sparrow is playing Margaery like a fiddle. No way does she see the season finale.

Trystayne died like he lived. Stupidly.

Are we going to see Bran this season? Or Rickon ever again?

EDIT: And "Fuck everyone who isn't us" should probably be the series motto.

[John]

Alexander Siddig may just be the most wasted actor any series has every employed.

Also, I feel like them burning the ships was a deliberate middle finger to people who would like the Danaeryereys plotline to actually go somewhere.

John Hawkes' cameo on Lost is in the conversation there. Andre Royo had a one episode part on Fringe too actually, which is another contender.

It would have been interesting to see how someone different, with genuine power but a more thoughtful nature would have dealt with all the conflicts going on in that world, but I suppose Jon Snow represented the same 'type' and met the same fate, so that's this story's answer to the question.


When the dogs caught up with Sansa and Theon, I was about ready to lose it entirely. They spent so long getting away from the castle that if they got taken straight back, I don't know how I'd have dealt with it. Now I just want the four of them to run away and be happy somewhere. Sansa can hook up with Pod - I'd be totally alright with that.

Where did the dogs go? They were straining at their leashes trying to get at Sansa, being prevented from doing so only by their masters, but the minute Brienne appeared they seemed to either run like fuck or be killed off screen. That's the sort of seemingly minor detail that pulls me out of a scene. :moop:

[ItalAussie]

Where did the dogs go? They were straining at their leashes trying to get at Sansa, being prevented from doing so only by their masters, but the minute Brienne appeared they seemed to either run like fuck or be killed off screen. That's the sort of seemingly minor detail that pulls me out of a scene. :moop:
I get why they did that, to be honest. Nobody wants to see people killing dogs. Dogs are great. Even death-bearing murderhounds.

[John]

I get why they did that, to be honest. Nobody wants to see people killing dogs. Dogs are great. Even death-bearing murderhounds.

They showed the Direwolf getting biffed at the Red Wedding, didn't they? Without a scale comparison that's just an alsatian.

I do get why they did it, but as I said it's just the sort of minor detail that I tend to bump into.

[ItalAussie]

I was more worried about the teleporting Sand Snakes. Wasn't Trystayne on a boat? And are they now stuck in King's Landing?

They should off a random minor Lannister every week just to move the plot along.

[John]

I was more worried about the teleporting Sand Snakes. Wasn't Trystayne on a boat? And are they now stuck in King's Landing?

They should off a random minor Lannister every week just to move the plot along.

I raised that earlier but Mahow booked me to death.

[ItalAussie]

I raised that earlier but Mahow booked me to death.

They missed a trick by killing him though. I assume the Lannisters would have taken him hostage, and then they'd have had a hostage without realising that the Sand Snakes didn't care about him. Advantage Dorne.

Trust the Sand Snakes to throw away a tactical advantage like that, just to be petty. House Martell has now been totally wiped out, right?

"You let them kill one of our people"
*Promptly kills every remaining member of the royal family*

[John]

Oberyn aside that whole region has been a waste of time anyway. The characters have been crap, the land has been poorly portrayed, and the storylines have been piffle. Oberyn was such a great character and the actor knocked so many scenes out of the park that they've roughly broken even, but they should cut that land adrift now. It's the only one with an OS so declare it dead space and move on.

[elth]

Dorne was what I had in mind last page when I said the writers had thoroughly messed up anything they freelanced on.

It's not exactly compelling in the books, but everyone makes sense. The show version is a clusterfuck of awful.

[Ian]

Oberyn dying after donning The Mountain was little more than Martin squawking "DEATH TWIST!" I reckon he uses a random number generator to determine how many people die per book because he's certainly not doing it based on what's good for storylines. Especially given Mt. Zombie is going to spend some time being Cersei's enforcer and then get done in by somebody else anyway.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He had to die in order to make Tyrion piss off to the other side of the world, didn't he?

What was going on with Melisandre at the end, by the way? She had her tits out, then my phone made a noise, then I looked up and it was suddenly a 90 year old sagging porno.

[Browning]

She took off her necklace and turned into.... That. Supposedly she's been seen in the bath without her necklace before, but I haven't checked if that's true.

And I'm with John on the Tystane thing. Mahow's right that we've never seen him in Westeros, but I can only assume he was on a boat because he sailed with Myrcella. She never went back to Westeros in the books so not sure how that can be used as evidence on this point. Unless I'm forgetting something.

[Andrew]

I think Melisandre revealing her true "self" was more to do with her fading belief in her God and so the power was slipping away along with her self belief not due to any sort of magical jewelery she had removed.

Not a bad episode but the Dorne storyline at least in the TV series sucks shit through a straw though..

[Browning]

It's very much tied to the necklace, the thing glows and pulsates... it's clearly not normal.

That said, I agree that those are the reasons she took it off.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Apologies John, I was wrong.

I had forgotten that Trystane had gone to Kings Landing, he was meant to be on the small council.

The whole thing is so much worse.

[Andrew]

Is this thread only about what has happened in the series so far or can we also say what we think might come about?

[John]

Speculation is fine. Fire away.

[Andrew]

Ed will return in time with an army of wildlings to prevent the burning of John Snows body, Melisandre will then go on and bring him back to life (Thoros follows the same God and I'm sure he has brought one of his mates back to life a few times)

Daenerys will win over the Dothraki Horde she is currently stuck with so giving her a massive army to back up her elite warriors, then she will get her shit together and manage to get back across the sea.

I still think her and John are half brother and sister so John will end up flying one of the dragons along with her against the white walkers.

Bran will help out in the war by commanding the "children" or whatever they are against the walkers.

All the other plots are just filler I reckon Just can't see what the storyline in Dorne is going to bring to anything really.

[Kikó]

Apparently the dragons are going to burn dorne to the ground.

[Browning]

If the most popular theory about John/Dany is true then they'd be Aunt/Nephew, not Brother/Sister. Not that it particularly matters. They'd still need a third "head" for the dragon but John certainly seems to be one.

Melisandre almost certainly has something to do with John coming back ,but I question why she wouldn't do it straight away, or why his death would make her question everything if she can just being him back. It very much feels like a technicality that's just been written in so Jon can escape his vows.

I wouldn't care if Bran was never mentioned again, both in the shows and the books.

[Adramelch]

I feel Theon will play some important part in the end as well.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They haven't made her bring him back for DRAMA I imagine, let people think that she wont/can't do it for a bit.

Either that or she doesn't actually know how and they call Thoros in.

[Andrew]

Maybe Bran will warg into the third dragon?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Bran could just talk to the White Walkers, he'd bore them to death.

[Browning]

I can't help but think Rickon has to have some role. Otherwise why is he even there? All the other Starks have major storylines, even if Bran's are awful.

[Lewis]

Isn't Tyrion the third dragon person?

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Maybe Bran will warg into the third dragon?
The Three-eyed raven did tell him he would never walk again but he will fly.

Do we think that's Dorne finished with? I can't remember seeing anything of it in the trailers but do the Lannisters have no suspicion of foul play?

[Ian]

Hodor will be on a dragon.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

http://falcona.com.au/news/hodors-rave-thrones-national-tour

Prepare yourself, for winter is coming and the nights are dark and full of terrors. Fortunately the House Falcona is bringing one of the largest characters from Winterfell across the seas and onto our shores - Kristian Nairn aka HODOR will be heading down under this August hosting some of the most anticipated gatherings since the beheading of the Hand.

HODOR's dedication to carrying Bran on his back has become legend but what is less well known is how much he enjoys carrying the party vibes long into the night. An established DJ in his homeland, HODOR of House Stark will be showcasing some of the deepest house from all seven kingdoms at his very own Rave Of Thrones.

Fucking hell :D

http://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/hodor.gif?w=635

[Byron]

Right, caught up so;

Dorne. Oh what's that? A new area with potential for something different story wise? Would be a shame if someone shit all over it.

Sansa and Theon. Yay. However all things come in three and this is the third person who Brienne has sworn loyalty to. What happened to the other two? Oh.

Davos still remains a don.

Despite her not being there, The Queen of Dragging Scenes still lives on in Meereen.

Speaking of her, what are the chances she goes to widow kingdom and gets a new army? Yawn.

The Red Woman. *shudders*

Did I mention Davos is a don?.

Margery is dead. Let her go and hope that Zombie Cleagane gives the strict bitch and fist through the gut. Bonus points if he's chanting SHAME over and over.

Good to see not totally massive foreshadowing for Ser Friendzone.

Davos is still a don.

[ItalAussie]

Can someone give a heads up for when I can discuss this without spoiling British watchers?

[Jimmy Floyd]

It airs 9pm our time - which is 9 hours and 8 minutes after this post.

[ItalAussie]

Cheers.

[GS]

They're simulcasting it at 2am every Monday morning, so there's no need to wait until 9pm here. That's if you have Sky Atlantic, mind.

[ItalAussie]

I'm happy to wait for UK broadcast time. I'll have things to say tomorrow. :D

[SvN]

Just watched it. I'd say that's up there with the best episodes they've done.

[Mazuuurk]

Read the recap of the story and finding it a little harder to keep waiting for the season to be over now.

[Byron]

Yep. Excellent episode. They're still in the prices of setting shit up but it's being done with more focus and speed this time.

Also Ramsay Bolton. Just when you thought the Lord Bastard couldn't get even more bastardy he manages it.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That was great.

Could probably hand out :cool:'s for most of the cast in that episode.

Davos saying fuck all the gods though :drool: What a fucking man he is, brought a tear to my eyes that did.

[Kikó]

Liked it. Hordor to turn into a fluent speaker and dominate the north.

[Byron]

Oh yeah, Mahow reminded me that as usual, Davos is a fucking don.

[Bernanke]

So we are now finally past book 2 in the Iron Islands.

[ItalAussie]

Outstanding episode. Every scene carried weight and felt like it was driving the story somewhere:


- Seeing Bran again, and getting flashbacks that will obviously tell us important things
- Tyrion starting his inevitable progress towards buddying up with a dragon
- Tommen shifting his allegiance back to Cersei
- The Sparrow openly declaring war on the Kingdom
- Theon leaving for the Iron Islands
- Ramsay taking control of his house, and preparing to march on Castle Black
- Arya not dragging the blind beggar thing way past its use-by date
- All the Iron Island stuff, leading up to the kingsmoot
- Jon Snow, etc.

That was a masterclass in making every scene feel important to the overall story.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Looks like we're getting The Tower of Joy flashback next week.

[GS]

I thought it was fantastic. I just love some of the things borrowed from history, like the Lord of Light paralleling the spread of Christianity in the early Roman Empire.

[John]

I thought they fucked the 'resurrection' a bit by structuring it like every other 'save the hero' scene in the history of film. The desperately in need of redemption character tries their best, the hero's friends gradually peel off as they lose hope, the non-human knows before everyone else, and the hero wakes up with a gasp. Admittedly it's usually someone a bit more recently dead, but then the Castle Black scenes seem to be happening at a vastly different pace than the rest of the show so it could be forty five minutes later for all we know.

That aside, I loved most of the rest of it.

Tyrion with the dragons represented the furthest out of the park a ball has been whacked on this show since Oberyn told him a story. That he presumably done it acting opposite a clothes horse with some tennis balls on it makes it perhaps more impressive than the scene about his 'little pink cock'.

My renewed enthusiasm for the Bran stuff is more down to the casting than what we've actually been shown, since I have faith that Max von Sydow won't be wasted and so that corner of the story will actually get some serious drama or take on a greater role in the story. The flashback to when the Targaryans were around ought to be good fun.

My one criticism aside from the resurrection is the Arya scene. It's such obvious jogging in place that it annoyed me, even as a man was reminding me how much I loved those speech patterns. Over two episodes, a fifth of the time available, Arya has learned, done, and contributed precisely zero. They've been spinning their wheels in a big way since she turned up at that temple, but there was at least some forward momentum around her before. The end of the scene tonight could have been the first scene of the first episode and we could have very easily inferred everything that went before.

The stuff in the Iron Islands was boring but a change in leadership of the irrelevant territories seems to be a theme of the season and will obviously pay off down the road, so I was engaged the moment that ninja appeared on the bridge.

Excellent stuff overall.

[GS]

Jon is going to be the 'saviour' of civilisation against the White Walkers. No-one knows his true parentage, only a small number of his brothers accept his leadership (the Jews), their previous enemies are now fully on-board despite initial scepticism (the Gentiles) and he's just been resurrected from the dead to lead the armies of the living (or, if you will, the light) against the armies of the dead.

[Ian]

It was an excellent episode but the knowledge that, if form holds, it'll be one of about three good ones for the season does little to dampen an increasing sense of boredom with it.

Ramsay is utterly tedious and that whole thing undermined the fact that Roose is meant to know what the fuck he's doing. I'm already bored of Mount Zombie. The resurrection was completely predictable. The Arya stuff is, currently, a load of yawn.

There's lots of good stuff though. Dinklage and Pryce were excellent as always. Jaime's actor is pretty consistent as well and his accent is less wobbly than it used to be. Bran might actually be of some fucking use and I'll take it all back if his flashbacks give us some more Charles Dance. SOMETHING HAPPENED IN KING'S LANDING AGAIN!

[Jimmy Floyd]

Bran looks about 25 now. Can't have any sex scenes or we'll see his hairy chest.

Looks like he is just a plot device to introduce more backstory as well. I was wondering why he existed.

[John]

I think the death and resurrection has less to do with service to a clumsy metaphor and more to do with getting him out of his oath.

I'll put a quid on the table now that Ramsey dies in the mouth of one of his dogs, perhaps warged by Bran.

[Lewis]

I bet episodes like that have the Book Wankers absolutely seething. Enjoy reading it in five years, lads.

[Ian]

Ramsay feels like his only purpose is to provide satisfaction when somebody halves him with a sword. If he's going to march on the Wall like the fucking mongoloid idiot he is (the North should be about to break down into mini-civil war but presumably everybody's going to go "Oh, alright" and get behind Ramsay) then maybe Jon Snerr will be the one to do him in.

[John]

They've done too much clumsy foreshadowing for Ramsey to get a halfway noble death, although the show's apparent commitment to letting the wankers win might overrule what's gone before. Ramsey had too much faith in how well he'd programmed Theon, and Theon flipped his bird over a wall. Roose had too much faith in how well he'd programmed Ramsey, and Ramsey stuck one in his lung. The only thing Ramsey has any ostensible faith in now is those dogs, so if he doesn't get his carotid chewed out then they've been writing towards an ending that never comes. Or I suppose Martin has been writing towards one that the showrunners think is tosh.

[Cord]

The Ramsey thing was the only real negative out of that episode to me, as he himself is not interesting and Roose should have seen that situation a mile off. He's similar to the lot in Dorne whereby the dull one dimensional character(s) seems to have offed all the more interesting people, so I hope (against expectation) he gets his comeuppance soon.

Everything else was good, even Bran and Arya's bits. Not knowing anything about the books, I'm not sure if I'm meant to think rubbish pirate king's murderer was his actual brother or something more out there. It seemed a bit oddly shot (and written) if it's just some random brother we've never seen or heard about turning up.

[Adamski]

Euron Greyjoy getting called a fucking ninja :D

[Alex]

Really good episode, that.

The Snow resurrection is yet more evidence that everyone in Westeros should be binning off the other, shit religions and flocking to join the one that can conjure shadow monsters and bring people back to life and shit.

Sad to see Roose go. I feel like he should have been smarter than that as well. He knew what a fucking nut job Ramsay was but he kept on goading him about his new baby, he should have known it wouldn't end well.

To what extent are the Faith Militant meant to be powerful? Numbers wise I mean. The Lannisters are collectively taking a lot of shit from them at the minute. Can't they just stick the city watch on them or something? Joffrey would have nipped this nonsense in the bud a long time ago.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

It's Euron, mate.

[Browning]

It's Euron, mate.

I was just about to say that.

[John]

Lolling at nomenclature while getting it wrong. More power to you, Adamski. You're nothing if not consistent.

How, other than being a ninja or the Iron Islands actually being as sparsely populated as they're portrayed, is he supposed to have arrived, entered and navigated the castle, and pitched up on the bridge he knew the King would be using, suggesting it's at least in close proximity to his own chambers, without being stopped or noticed.

Incidentally, it seems odd that they'd come back into the story the episode after the Leaver of Friends' fleet was burned down. The best trained sailors in the world and the invading force with a mutual enemy seem like a match made in The Flames.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That scene with Captain Pugwash being thrown to his death was utterly absurd on several levels. Firstly, why is there a rickety rope bridge between two bits of his castle? Secondly, why is the elderly king attempting to cross such a rickety rope bridge, on his own, in the middle of the night, during a severe storm? Thirdly, how has the decidedly middle-aged Euron managed to ghost into the place and ghost out again without anybody noticing?

The rest of it was OK. Tommen will get bummed to death quite soon. Oh well. Who is king after that?

[Browning]

The rest of it was OK. Tommen will get bummed to death quite soon. Oh well. Who is king after that?

He will almost certainly die given they killed off all 3 of his heirs within 2 episodes (if you ignore Stannis being a traitor, at least).

There's no one left. It probably gets traced back to Dany, just to make her storyline even more pointless.

[John]

Lover of Nicknames pissing around in the Med has been a lot of things, but it isn't pointless. It only becomes pointless if she somehow dies before setting foot in Westeros, which won't happen. As it is, she'll piss around with the incredibly gullible Dothraki bloke a bit longer, get back to her place around episode five, whinge about the slavers taking their shit back for an episode or two, and be furnished with a fleet through somehow linking up with the Iron twats in the last episode.

[Browning]

You're right, that was a poor choice of words. Just meant more along the lines of it really hasn't gone very far over the 5 and a bit seasons. I actually enjoy those scenes more than most people on here (it seems) but she really needs to get her act together and just invade. If that ends up being how it all ends (meaning we'll have to wait another 2-3 seasons for them to figure out how it happens) I'll be a bit annoyed.

[ItalAussie]

The stuff in the Iron Islands was boring but a change in leadership of the irrelevant territories seems to be a theme of the season and will obviously pay off down the road, so I was engaged the moment that ninja appeared on the bridge.

I'm really happy with their choice to basically bin the Iron Islands until they become (presumably) relevant. Rather than having them cut to a scene every second episode of Balon sitting on the throne being grumpy, before eventually dying midway through the last season and then nothing happening for ages. They had enough faith in the viewers to assume we'd be able to pick up the thread again when it mattered. Good on them.

EDIT: The rickety bridge was definitely foreshadowed in the credit sequence when Pyke came up out of the map, too. Bridges wobbling all over the place. :D

[ItalAussie]

I thought they fucked the 'resurrection' a bit by structuring it like every other 'save the hero' scene in the history of film. The desperately in need of redemption character tries their best, the hero's friends gradually peel off as they lose hope, the non-human knows before everyone else, and the hero wakes up with a gasp. Admittedly it's usually someone a bit more recently dead, but then the Castle Black scenes seem to be happening at a vastly different pace than the rest of the show so it could be forty five minutes later for all we know.They did throw in a little curveball at the popular book-related theory that Jon warged into the direwolf. By making him stir first, they did do a quick bait-and-switch.


Tyrion with the dragons represented the furthest out of the park a ball has been whacked on this show since Oberyn told him a story. That he presumably done it acting opposite a clothes horse with some tennis balls on it makes it perhaps more impressive than the scene about his 'little pink cock'.I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for him to act that scene, but he absolutely nailed it. That said, I'd watch Tyrion and Varys wandering around and bantering for hours.

[ItalAussie]

Also, given that Sophie Turner and Maisie Williams were both hired as nobodys with barely any acting experience, the fact that the both of them turned out to be outstanding actors must be incredibly satisfying to the casting agents.

Although the hands-down best acting performance on the show, and I'm including Peter Dinklange in this, has been Alfie Allen. Even when his storyline was stuttering, he was conveying his character perfectly every time he was on screen. He's gone from brash to cowardly to despairing to hopeless, and now he's capturing a small chance at redemption. I realise there are a number of actors who are bringing their A-game to every episode in which they appear (see also: Liam Cunningham, Jonathan Pryce), but his arc must have been incredibly challenging to pull off, and he's done it spot-on.

[John]

I'm really happy with their choice to basically bin the Iron Islands until they become (presumably) relevant. Rather than having them cut to a scene every second episode of Balon sitting on the throne being grumpy, before eventually dying midway through the last season and then nothing happening for ages. They had enough faith in the viewers to assume we'd be able to pick up the thread again when it mattered. Good on them.

EDIT: The rickety bridge was definitely foreshadowed in the credit sequence when Pyke came up out of the map, too. Bridges wobbling all over the place. :D

It does seem like they're only bringing the islands back as they're about to become worthwhile, and the aforementioned burning of the Forgoer of Facial Expressions' ships adds weight to that, but they brought in a top level actor to head the Dorne scenes last year and then did absolutely fuck all with them so I'll hold fire on the praise for now.


They did throw in a little curveball at the popular book-related theory that Jon warged into the direwolf. By making him stir first, they did do a quick bait-and-switch.

I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for him to act that scene, but he absolutely nailed it. That said, I'd watch Tyrion and Varys wandering around and bantering for hours.

They must know that book readers make up a small portion of their audience, so that sort of low level subterfuge can't be considered anything more than a wink at this point. Even something as small as ending the scene on Ghost perking up or having Jon open his eyes peacefully would have made it feel different and somewhat original. The only way to inject some actual tension into the scene would have been to have Alliser knife him at the beginning of this season rather than the end of last, so that there were ten fewer months for people to mull over the state of play if he was actually dead, but they could have improved on the staging in a hundred different ways.

A spinoff with Tyrion and Varys walking around various fictional landscapes remarking upon what's going on would definitely have my admission fee. Stick them in Baltimore and I'll fund the fucking thing myself.


Also, given that Sophie Turner and Maisie Williams were both hired as nobodys with barely any acting experience, the fact that the both of them turned out to be outstanding actors must be incredibly satisfying to the casting agents.

Although the hands-down best acting performance on the show, and I'm including Peter Dinklange in this, has been Alfie Allen. Even when his storyline was stuttering, he was conveying his character perfectly every time he was on screen. He's gone from brash to cowardly to despairing to hopeless, and now he's capturing a small chance at redemption. I realise there are a number of actors who are bringing their A-game to every episode in which they appear (see also: Liam Cunningham, Jonathan Pryce), but his arc must have been incredibly challenging to pull off, and he's done it spot-on.

Sophie Turner is good but Maisie Williams is tremendous. Which makes it a shame that their respective looks will mean that Sophie Turner will have a huge career while Maisie Williams will be a bit player and occasional lead.

About sixty percent of Alfie Allen's acting is his haircut. He's capable, but on the spectrum of the show's performances he's much closer to Littlefinger than to Tyrion.

[ItalAussie]

I'd rate them the other way, to be honest. I think Sophie Turner has had more subtle work to do, while Maisie Williams has only had to do very broad brush acting.

Also, Jon Snow coming back to life barely even registers as a twist at this point, so going over the top with the dramatic reveal would have been a bit hollow.

[Adamski]

Lolling at nomenclature while getting it wrong. More power to you, Adamski. You're nothing if not consistent.

How, other than being a ninja or the Iron Islands actually being as sparsely populated as they're portrayed, is he supposed to have arrived, entered and navigated the castle, and pitched up on the bridge he knew the King would be using, suggesting it's at least in close proximity to his own chambers, without being stopped or noticed.

Incidentally, it seems odd that they'd come back into the story the episode after the Leaver of Friends' fleet was burned down. The best trained sailors in the world and the invading force with a mutual enemy seem like a match made in The Flames.

He's the brother of the King, why would he have to be stopped or enter the castle unnoticed?

[Adamski]

That scene with Captain Pugwash being thrown to his death was utterly absurd on several levels. Firstly, why is there a rickety rope bridge between two bits of his castle? Secondly, why is the elderly king attempting to cross such a rickety rope bridge, on his own, in the middle of the night, during a severe storm? Thirdly, how has the decidedly middle-aged Euron managed to ghost into the place and ghost out again without anybody noticing?

The rest of it was OK. Tommen will get bummed to death quite soon. Oh well. Who is king after that?

The cliff the castle towers stands on has been eroded, so the only way to access each tower is using the rope bridges.

[John]

If anyone had seen him on the way in or out, the King's brother having returned after twenty years on the night he died and then missed his send off, the 'whoever did this' stuff at the funeral would ring hollow and false. I suppose they could create a retroactive conspiracy if they want to do Dorne again with shite weather, but I doubt they're that daft.

[Browning]

Not killing Balon before now made the whole 'leeches' thing a bit weird, given that 2 of the 3 died fast and Balon just hung around for fucking ages. That said just having him die and then postponing the story probably wouldn't have been any better, so I guess they made the best of a bad situation. If the books are anything to go by it should be more interesting than Dorne... but you never know I guess.

I've said for a long time I'd watch a Tyrion and Varys walking around spin off. Even more so if they can add Bronn.

[Bernanke]

"Tyrion and Varys explores the world of Game of Thrones" would be so much more enjoyable than this show. Get all of the mosaic that GRRRRRRRRM has created but removing all of the convoluted plot threads.

[Adramelch]

I could do with less of the Mexican soap opera directing though, with people talking to the wall (primarily Cersei) and stuff like the extended scene where the camera shows Tommen and Cersei hugging from outside the balcony and the appropriate music playing. I mean I don't mind the odd scene here and there, but it happens too often for my liking.

Also for me (and basically all of my friends), Turner's acting ranges from bad to meh. Maybe it's the accent? I don't know.

[Ian]

After a discussion about the show at work I've been watching some quality scenes from previous series. This is still a favourite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQZ_37wOebI

There's about fifteen seconds after Joffrey accuses Tywin of "hiding under Casterley Rock" where not a single word is said but it's just perfect. And Dance does that tiny turn of the head and slight hardening of the expression in response.

Are we due any more Dance in this series? I'm hoping so via Bran's flashbacks, the useless little gimp.

[Alex]

Joffrey's "oh shit, I've overstepped" face when Tywin glares at him is brilliant too.

I always thought Lena Headey did excellent work whenever she was on screen opposite Joffrey. She always managed to convey that her character knew exactly how much of a horrible little bastard her son was, but that she loved and was concerned about him regardless.

[Bernanke]

That final Tyrion/Tywin exchange is so good.

[John]

The best ACTING scene in the whole thing remains Oberyn telling Tyrion the story of his 'little pink cock' but Tywin would feature heavily in a top ten.

Having checked which episodes Charles Dance appeared in I was surprised that he'd only been in half of those aired so far. Obviously he wasn't around at all last year but even before that he was only in two thirds, which seems low given how prominent he was and what a massive shadow he cast.

The flashbacks seem to be going back so far - one of the clips in the trailer has someone in a King's Guard helmet with a dragon sigil on their armour - that any Tywin appearance would probably need to be recast.

[elth]

I bet episodes like that have the Book Wankers absolutely seething. Enjoy reading it in five years, lads.

Nah, apart from Zombie Jon Snow which everyone saw coming anyway, and Roose, which was also fairly expected for people who've paid attention, nothing was new last week to book readers.

[ItalAussie]

Not killing Balon before now made the whole 'leeches' thing a bit weird, given that 2 of the 3 died fast and Balon just hung around for fucking ages. That said just having him die and then postponing the story probably wouldn't have been any better, so I guess they made the best of a bad situation. If the books are anything to go by it should be more interesting than Dorne... but you never know I guess.

I've said for a long time I'd watch a Tyrion and Varys walking around spin off. Even more so if they can add Bronn.

It also had the advantage of subtly reminding people about the fact that Melisandre does actually possess powerful magic, which is easy to forget given that it's a while since she's used any.

[ItalAussie]

After a discussion about the show at work I've been watching some quality scenes from previous series. This is still a favourite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQZ_37wOebI

There's about fifteen seconds after Joffrey accuses Tywin of "hiding under Casterley Rock" where not a single word is said but it's just perfect. And Dance does that tiny turn of the head and slight hardening of the expression in response.

Are we due any more Dance in this series? I'm hoping so via Bran's flashbacks, the useless little gimp.

Tywin was so good. I hope he gets flashed back to.

[ItalAussie]

I wonder what Littlefinger's up to now that all his plans seem to have come to nothing.

Marrying off Sansa to Ramsay seems to have been a colossal miscalculation on his part. He had to know that Ramsay was a loon who would abuse her until she either died or escaped.

[five time]

I wonder if Gendry will be rowing for another season.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Tywin was so good. I hope he gets flashed back to.
For any flashbacks is it not likely it would be all the way back to Robert's Rebellion though, like the one in the next episode? i.e. no chance of Charles Dance


I wonder what Littlefinger's up to now that all his plans seem to have come to nothing.

Marrying off Sansa to Ramsay seems to have been a colossal miscalculation on his part. He had to know that Ramsay was a loon who would abuse her until she either died or escaped.
He does have the Knights of The Vale at his disposal. I wouldn't be surprised to see them make an appearance when the battle at Winterfell takes place, going by his scene with Cersei in season 5.

[Bernanke]

I really loved that flashback in the book, glad they kept a lot of the dialogue.


“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them. “We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered. “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell. “When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.” “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.” “I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.” “Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne. “Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.” “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell. “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold. Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three. “And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light. “No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”

[Lewis]

Things really are moving now. That training montage did more for 'A. Girl' than the entire last series.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

You are not the queen because you are not married to the King. I do appreciate these things can get a bit confusing in your family.

https://49.media.tumblr.com/78c668f90142407c58ee497f3288d665/tumblr_o2kqn9MbZ71rskwlzo1_400.gif

Good episode that.

[randomlegend]

I really don't understand Mother of Dragons logic behind suddenly deciding she's not going to show her tits any more.

That sounds quite rapey - obviously - but it was just very obvious/awkward in that episode and seems pointless considering it's all already out there.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Probably because if you show your tits all the time you get typecast as an actress who shows her tits all the time.

When she was first in it she was an unknown, so getting the mammaries out would have been more of a needs must sort of thing.

[Alex]

Good episode. As Lewis said, things are moving at a pace now.

What a lad Jon Snow is. "Fuck this Night's Watch shit, I'm out.....but let me just hang that traitorous little cunt Olly first". :cool:

[Ian]

Even Ramsay managed to be relatively interesting in that episode.

[GS]

That was excellent.

[Kikó]

Do you see what you get olly? Do you see what you get when you mess with the warrior?

It's going well. The Starks are on the march.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The episode also showed that we need more Tormund in episodes.

Him and Jon Snow having a jolly around the country on his way to the dragons would be amazing.

[Alex]

Do you see what you get olly? Do you see what you get when you mess with the warrior?

It's going well. The Starks are on the march.

:D

I was genuinely worried he was going to let the little fucker live. Even when he was hanging, I half expected him to just cut Olly down . Held firm though. :cool:

I think I'm going to miss Ser Alliser though.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

I really loved that flashback in the book, glad they kept a lot of the dialogue.

[spoiler]

Quite enjoy this reading of it-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqv-UtJQk5Q

[Alex]

One thing I was wondering when watching it, and maybe the the book people can help me out here (unless it's one of those situations where they've branched off from the book), but when did this cool bastard die:

https://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmi6dqJJ401qa0q3qo1_500.png

?

The Red Wedding, presumably? I can't remember seeing it though, and I feel like he was a big enough character that we would have. That was meant to be his son, who brought Rickon to Ramsey, right? He mentioned something about killing his own father if he wasn't already dead.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

He made it out of The Red Wedding AFAIK. Could it be that Smalljon Umber is setting a trap for Ramsay?

Also, mentions of 'Ser Gregor' and 'trial by combat' in this episode are hinting towards a popular fan theory coming to fruition this season.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He did make it out of the Red Wedding and we only learnt about his death because of what his Son said.

In the TV show Rickon was sent to the Umber's for protection.

[Vim]

The alleged direwolf head looked a bit small to be a direwolf if you ask me. Umbers are historically loyal to the Starks as they said in the episode, so I reckon something fishy could be going on there, trying to overthrow the Boltons and seat Rickon at Winterfell.

[Bernanke]

The alleged direwolf head looked a bit small to be a direwolf if you ask me. Umbers are historically loyal to the Starks as they said in the episode, so I reckon something fishy could be going on there, trying to overthrow the Boltons and seat Rickon at Winterfell.

Why use the actual Rickon in that case?

[phonics]

The 'Your Dad was a cunt and you're a cunt but I need you to kill some cunts for me' bit was good.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What is he going to do with Rickon, then? Anyone worth their salt would have had his head off well before the end of that scene.

That was a decent episode. Absolutely no idea what is going on in Meereen, but plus ça change.

[GS]

I'm inclined to agree with your previous analysis that they simply have no way of getting Dany to Westeros without it being a massive anti-climax. She should really be building an army now, not fucking about in Vaes Dothrak, as cool as seeing it is.

[Adramelch]

Varys was an absolute don, once again.

[Browning]

Agreed, Varys was the best bit.

No idea where this Rickon thing is going. Ramsey surely should have killed him there and then.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

It will be something along the lines of naming him the current ruler of Winterfell but making him (the Starks) bend the knee to Ramsay to add more weight behind him being the warden of the North.

Despite the fact that everyone believes that all the Starks are dead, including Rickon, so it's all moot. Chop his head off and nothing changes at all.

I can't actually see a single reason why Ramsay would want to keep him alive, nothing good can come from it. It's only a good thing for his enemies.

[Ian]

That was decent enough, again. The King's Landing bits were a bit yawn (Pryce still donning it aside) and Clarke manages to even ruin scenes where Dragonwoman does something moderately interesting with her woeful acting but Grey Worm and Missandei were much less terrible than usual and I really liked the stuff at the Wall.

[SvN]

I thought it was much better than decent. Every storyline had solid progression. The pace stuff is moving at is bang on at the moment. Even Daenerys is actually interesting for the first time in about 4 seasons. A few years ago she'd have been in that building for 5 episodes.

Nice to see Littlefinger again, too.

[Ian]

I really enjoyed most of it but it'd be quite nice if something actually happened in King's Landing and any scene that hangs on Clarke's acting is as good as ruined for me. Littlefinger being back is good but I hope those scenes going forward are more him and we don't have to put up with too much of Robert Arryn given, who is a tedious little gimp. Seeing more of Littlefinger getting/keeping the Vale under control I'm all for.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

I think his ambitions are far higher than that.

[Ian]

Indeed, but one step at a time.

Though wherever it is they're marching off to to "help" Sansa (Winterfell, or north to help those at The Wall more directly?) the Vale weren't really involved in the initial civil war, were they? Whatever their military strength is they'll be in good shape.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Yeah Catelyn's sister told her to poke it IIRC.

[Browning]

Yea I thought that was a very good episode, probably my favorite of the current season so far. It's about fucking time 2 Starks (well, if you include Jon) met again, they've teased it about 65 times without it ever happening. Everything is building up nicely. Littlefinger was a welcome return too. Could have done with more Varys and, as has been said, King's Landing still fell a little flat, but it was an improvement.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Also, 4 episodes in and still no Bronn.

[ItalAussie]

I'm trying to figure out Littlefinger's game, because at this stage, I've got no clue. He can't have intended Sansa to escape, so that's hardly part of the great plan.

Dnareryaerys getting back to being a conquerer. It suits her better. And who would've thought that there was actually fun to be had in Meereen once she cleared out?

Osha was so obviously an excess character that her death wasn't even a surprise. It's clear that Ramsay has more to do, so the minute she started eyeing off the knife, it was curtains for her.

[ItalAussie]

The other big unknown for mine is how they're going to resolve the King's Landing plotline.

You'd have to imagine that the Lannisters will turn on the Tyrells at some stage, but they do seem to genuinely want the same thing at the moment, despite their mutual distaste.

[ItalAussie]

If Tormund and Brienne went off and made a litter of giant children, I'd not be unhappy.

Also, I think that they did something significant with Daario. When he was wandering through the mountains, he was talking about Dnarearueys like she was a conquest of his. But I think that, at the end, I think that's the first time he's seen her power in full, and he realised that he only ever had what she let him take.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

The other big unknown for mine is how they're going to resolve the King's Landing plotline.

You'd have to imagine that the Lannisters will turn on the Tyrells at some stage, but they do seem to genuinely want the same thing at the moment, despite their mutual distaste.

Do you not think The High Sparrow has something planned? He knows fine well they have vast armies that could crush them if so desired, he would know that Tommen would tell Cersei about Margery's atonement, as well as showing Margery that Loras is completely broken.

[Browning]

Preventing Margery's walk is probably the one thing I would never forgive the Lannisters for.

[ItalAussie]

I'm sure he has a plan. I've no idea what it could possibly be.

[GS]

I thought that was cracking. It's going excellently thus far.

[Lewis]

Which makes you wonder why they span it out for so long before.

[GS]

Presumably they need certain things to happen at the same chronological time. Plus character development is important so you actually care.

I'm speculating, mind you.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The looks Tormund kept throwing at Brienne were fucking stunning.

It also looks like we might be having the Jon Snow and Tormund jolly that I asked for last week, what scenes if it actually happens.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Bastard Bowl is on.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The bastard letter really was a bastard work of bastard art.

[Kikó]

Health and safety isn't a strong point in dothraki villages.

[John]

That was more like it. The Spoiler of Tissues walking through fire and being worshipped for it seemed like a bit of a mashup of the original Dothraki wank scene when Conan was buried and the Khaleesi scene Sky Atlantic loved so much, but it played well in its own right. It's getting a bit jarring that she just effortlessly brings entire peoples to heel about twice a year, presumably so that Westeros can look special when it takes her a whole series to sort them out, but they're in danger of reaching the point of diminishing returns with that stuff.

Jon Snow seems to be a more jolly soul since his resurrection. Someone with more time on their hands should find out when he last smiled prior to this season. It feels like it might have been when he found those wolves in the bushes.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Khaleesi is just crap and boring, whatever she does. So now you're back at the helm of the Dothraki, great, we did this 4 series ago.

Tormund on the other hand is fucking well up for it. That Ramsay letter was brilliant, like those things Jack the Ripper and co send to Scotland Yard. Presumably it'll now work out with the meagre wildling crew doing a heroic job and then Littlefinger rocking up late in the day like Blücher to claim all the credit.

I'm still not quite sure what's going on in King's Landing, and it seems a waste of Diana Rigg to have her sit at a table harrumphing for 30 seconds an episode, so presumably that'll all blow up soon.

[Ian]

I'd actually pondered that, John. Don't reckon he did when he was getting his end away in that cave so unless he's had a chuckle with Fat Sam at some point it's hard to know when.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm pretty sure he has one long laugh a series. You know, those ones where somebody cracks a shit joke, nobody laughs, then one person titters a bit, and they spend the next minute laughing more and more and then hugging each other for no reason.

[John]

Given we're now four episodes in and she's just taken over the Dothraki with minimal effort it's just about the most blatant stall ever, but I thought those scenes all played well enough and Jorah the Explorer getting a doing off some Dothraki monster was good fun. He's been far too close to invincible so far, when even Ser Barristan the hero got done in off a few untrained dicks because he was an old man.

I don't buy GS' line about things needing to happen at the same time in the in-universe chronology either, since scenes in the first episode would need to be happening about a month apart for it to make any sense. Jon Snow was found the morning after his murder and Cersei had enough hair to style it in the same episode.

[GS]

Given we're now four episodes in and she's just taken over the Dothraki with minimal effort it's just about the most blatant stall ever, but I thought those scenes all played well enough and Jorah the Explorer getting a doing off some Dothraki monster was good fun. He's been far too close to invincible so far, when even Ser Barristan the hero got done in off a few untrained dicks because he was an old man.

I don't buy GS' line about things needing to happen at the same time in the in-universe chronology either, since scenes in the first episode would need to be happening about a month apart for it to make any sense. Jon Snow was found the morning after his murder and Cersei had enough hair to style it in the same episode.

There's also the point that they were presumably not wanting to include much book six material in TV series five, with the expectation the book was going to come out before season six. They advanced some of the storylines, but not too far e.g. Tyrion, Stannis. Now the books are delayed, you assume they've been given 'licence' to just crack on and move things forward.

[Mazuuurk]

OK managed to plow through the last episode of last season (hadn't seen it yet) and the first 3 of this one. All pretty good so far.

Emilia Clarke must've had a kid or something. She got a bit fat :O

[Alex]

Ramsey has certainly masted the art of the inflammatory letter. His letter to the Balon Greyjoy back when he first took Winterfell was top work (the one where he tells him to order the Iron Born back to the "shit stained rocks they call home") but he's outdone himself there.

I loved Tormunds very brief "we'll fucking see about that" look when it got to the part about him skinning the Wildling's alive. He's well up for a fight.

I'm not really buying that Daenerys going all girl power, locking the doors, pushing a few torches over and being "the unburnt" again would collectively convince the most macho society in all of Westeros to line up behind her. But whatever, if it gets things moving then fair enough.

[Cord]

I really hope that they've been playing a long game and they are setting Dragon Woman up as the villain. I know that in reality I'm supposed to be being all you go girl about the fiftieth scene where some natives kneel down before her after she does a party trick, but they've got the pieces in place to have her come across as a right nutter. Tyrion's just negotiated a potentially peaceful solution to her problems, she comes back with her newest army and her new found love of burning people (like her relatives before her) and gets all tyrannical and tries to do everything by force again. She could even do Tyrion a mischief.

I'm sure what will actually happen is she'll find a nasty man to patronise her for a bit until the dragons come back and kill him to see her through until the end of the season.

[The Merse]

I kinda theorised the same (Dany coming back and reneging on Tyrion's deal). I could see Tyrion being driven away by it - potentially back to a starring role in overthrowing the Protestant lot? Nah, not that. But I certainly see Dany outing herself as a full on cunt at the prospect of 7 years more years of slavery. There's a film in that somewhere.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I hope it ends in some way other than Everyone vs Ice Zombies. That would be hugely dull.

Hopefully it ends with Jon Snow hacking Dany's head off and lolling off into the sunset.

[phonics]

Ramsey has certainly masted the art of the inflammatory letter. His letter to the Balon Greyjoy back when he first took Winterfell was top work (the one where he tells him to order the Iron Born back to the "shit stained rocks they call home") but he's outdone himself there.

It's almost good enough to start inserting Come See Me into my work emails but I don't want to have to start explaining it to people.

[Bernanke]

Jon and Dany going against each other is way more interesting than them marrying or some shit like that.

[randomlegend]

I really don't understand Mother of Dragons logic behind suddenly deciding she's not going to show her tits any more.

That sounds quite rapey - obviously - but it was just very obvious/awkward in that episode and seems pointless considering it's all already out there.

Well there we are then.

[John]

There was some shit about her only being willing to 'disrobe' if the nudity was fundamental to the story.

'Disrobe' is another one of those words that only those who write about celebrities for a living use. Like 'romp'.

[Ian]

Were those her tits? I just assumed it was a Lena Heady body-swap situation.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They were her tits.

[Ian]

Then what's the point? If people are that desperate to see your nipples they can just Google it.

Stop worrying about unimportant shit and learn to act, you useless bint.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

“I’d like to remind people the last time I took my clothes off was season 3,” she told Entertainment Weekly. “That was awhile ago. It’s now season 6. But this is all me, all proud, all strong. I’m just feeling genuinely happy I said ‘Yes.’ That ain’t no body double!”

Ugh.

[Mazuuurk]

Why the fuck doesn't her hair burn off when she keeps prancing about in Fires?

[GS]

In the same way they gave Tyrion a scar rather than having to go through the hassle of cutting his nose off before every scene.

[Lewis]

Is that what happened to you?

[Mazuuurk]

No mine's coming off out of age and because of genetics, I suppose, Lewis.

[John]

Her hair's fireproof, like the rest of her.

[Mazuuurk]

Yeah but you have to admit it's a little retarded. I mean, it burnt off the first time, right?

[John]

No.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://rockpaperwatch.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/dany-dragons.jpg

Nope.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Jon and Dany going against each other is way more interesting than them marrying or some shit like that.

If they ever meet (I love character juxtaposition in this, by the way - like that Jon/Sansa reunification) and lock loving eyes I might vomit.