Euro 2024 - Group Stage: This format is bollocks

[niko_cee]

Also this pic:

https://i.ibb.co/dBvQpTp/Gaz-2.jpg

[Pepe]

The real lol result is Brazil 0 - 0 Costa Rica.

[niko_cee]

Clean sheet, tournament football, no easy games.

What is the deal with the Copa anyway? Is it being hosted in North America or is it just having a grand depart there before settling somewhere more, you know, within the actual confederation?

[Yevrah]

Costa Rica are no mugs, as evidenced by their 1-0 victory over Italy, 0-0 draw with England and penalty win over Greece in the 2014 World Cup.

[niko_cee]

According to Opta Joe, external, the Manchester City player has passed the ball more times to goalkeeper Jordan Pickford (3) than to England striker Harry Kane (1) so far at Euro 2024.

1805921665446027400

[Pepe]

Clean sheet, tournament football, no easy games.

What is the deal with the Copa anyway? Is it being hosted in North America or is it just having a grand depart there before settling somewhere more, you know, within the actual confederation?

They are doing some joint thing this year, with five Concacaf teams participating. Mexico has played Copa America many times before, as have a couple other Concacaf teams, so it is nothing that new. It will all be in the US. It wouldn't surprise me if in the long term it is always held over here. The money is better, the stadiums are better, etc. Just like Mexico started playing all international friendlies over there more than a decade ago. I am guessing they got this one as some sort of preparation for the World Cup.

[Dark Soldier]

Sorry to hear about your gran, RL.

Woke up today and the world feels a brighter place. Top of the group, pretty much winners already. Nothing but respect for our heroes.

[niko_cee]

1805713739490148506

https://j.gifs.com/mQrgWR.gif

[Ben]

That's over 1 in our favour though. Shithousing our way to the trophy. :cool:

[niko_cee]

It's weirdly bang on isn't it, xG of basically 2, ding, and exactly half against, ding.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That good Bellingham 30 minutes against Serbia was probably the only 30 minutes when Southgate was instructing the team to try to attack.

[Luke Emia]

I think that's where you can see the issues in terms of chance creation. I saw France for example who also haven't been perfect have an xg of over 6, I don't hold massive stock in it as a stat per se but obviously there is some merit to it and if you are averaging 0.7 xg per game you aren't going to score many goals. That's against defensive and not very good teams as well and just shows that there is no attacking style in the team which is why fans and pundits are getting annoyed but it appears the players and Southgate don't see it as a problem.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The rather more elegiac worry I have is that Ronald Koeman just has the wood over us for 40 years and no matter how shit one thinks the Dutch team is, he will just alpha Southgate outta there.

[Dark Soldier]

Second highest pass success rate, third highest possession, highest crossing accuracy, third highest dribbles attempted, seventh in attacks attempted. Kane and Bellingham joint second highest scorers. Only team in our group to win a game.

Stats speak for themselves. Domination.

[niko_cee]

8 years ago . . .
(https://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/showthread.php?1022-Euro-2016&p=104347&viewfull=1#post104347)

This is fucking terrible. Can we just have one tournament where we aren't the most boring team?


We're experienced England supporters, we know a gutless load of shite when we see it.


We've been bollocks in the tournament so far and most disappointingly, boring as fuck bollocks as well. I see no overreaction.


In fact, don't make me wheel it out, but the list of teams we've beaten in knockout rounds of major tournaments (outside of England) is fucking depressing.

How things have changed, oh, wait (https://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/showthread.php?1022-Euro-2016)

That's just the groups though, I would guess the Iceland thread would be where there real gold is.

[Pepe]

]Only team in our group to win a game.

:D

[Dark Soldier]

8 years ago . . .
(https://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/showthread.php?1022-Euro-2016&p=104347&viewfull=1#post104347)








How things have changed, oh, wait (https://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/showthread.php?1022-Euro-2016)

That's just the groups though, I would guess the Iceland thread would be where there real gold is.

It was the same on the old board for previous managers. Every tournament. Like England, they're consistent.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In 2016 we were just flat out shite, rather than wasting a potentially great set of players.

[niko_cee]

I only skimmed a few pages. I was moaning about Walker back then and saying could he not play left back if he really had to play, so presumably we didn't have one then either. So much of it is absolute groundhog day.

[Yevrah]

In 2016 we were just flat out shite, rather than wasting a potentially great set of players.

And yet somehow it was still more exciting than this shitshow to date.

[Jimmy Floyd]

One of the several problems with Southgate is that he doesn't move on from players he likes despite the years passing. You just know that Maguire would be in for Guehi were he fit, and Trippier seems to be a cockroach-like figure in his setup. Then there's the pining after the Kalvin Phillips of the brief period when Bielsa made him look like a footballer. He can't look around him and adapt.

Bielsa, now that would be an England manager. Shame Uruguay got him.

[Ben]

He kept Welbeck on long after his sell-by date too.

[Yevrah]

He's run his 8 years as if it were a single season for a club, (or if I'm being charitable 2 seasons of 4 years each) not taking into account the passage of time and the impact that has on player quality, both ways. He has a fixed idea of what works in his head, and to be fair to him it sort of did for a time, but you simply can't try and recreate that 3 years after it did with absolutely no plan B whatsoever.

[Yevrah]

Oh and 0.7xg per game is a dumpster fire of a performance, even worse when you consider probably 60% of the 2.2 in total came from the tap in Kane scored and the header he didn't against Serbia.

[Adramelch]

For what it's worth those were 0.227 and 0.2 respectively. His "miss" (from that Trippier cross) yesterday was 0.463.

[Yevrah]

Far be it from me to question the wisdom of the xG but 0.227 seems far too low for the chance for his goal. Isn't that basically saying that only 23% of those opportunities will be scored? If so, don't tell me it doesn't take into account where the opposition defenders are on the pitch (he had no one near him IIRC).

[Adramelch]

It wasn't a tough finish necessarily but I think you might be misremembering it a bit. He had a player sliding in front of his right foot so he had to take it with his weaker foot. Now I don't know at all how xG is calculated, but if that stuff is factored in, I could see it reasonably only being scored once every 4 attempts.

[Yevrah]

Fair enough. I guess it seemed so easy as Kane is so good with his left foot.

[niko_cee]

Per xG Philosophy twitter.

xG for England's last 4 games, 0.87 against Iceland, 0.69 against Serbia, 0.92 against Denmark, 0.65 against Slovenia.

Only our game against Denmark wouldn't have rated as the worst game of the Premier League season in terms of xG.

Every other decent team is miles ahead of us, France's xG against Poland was 2.8 or something, probably higher against Holland.

Kylian Mbappé accumulated more xG (2.33) during the Euro 2024 Group Stage than England (2.09).

:happycry:

That last one is wrong though as England have a MIGHTY 2.26 thank you very much, still less mind. :/

[Waffdon]

France will win the Euros if they stop playing Mbappe as a striker and drop Rabiot.

Doubt either will happen though.

[John Arne]

My issue with England is that the way they play kinda says that they haven't prepared tactically for the opposition AT ALL. Like, there is no play style, no set moves or pressure points... it's all sideways passing until one of the oppo presses, then panic. I genuinely fear that England aren't preparing at all for the opposition and rather just telling 11 blokes to go "play your best".... surely, surely not, but my word it's hard not to think. I must be wrong. I hope I am wrong.

[niko_cee]

1. I doubt he'd be telling them to go out and play their best, even in the described circumstances and,

2. Isn't the scenario you describe preferable to this somehow being the result of meticulous planning and preparation?

Still, 4 tournament football clean sheets from glory.

[niko_cee]

Foden's left the camp 'temporarily' for 'family reasons'.

Even God is trying to help now.

[Gray Fox]

Family Reasons is spreading from the Cricket squad.

[Lofty]

Somewhere in Ibiza, Ben White sparks a cigar and grins.

[niko_cee]

Funny you should mention White as he comes in for some flack in this piece of absolute shite (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gareth-southgate-football-euros-ben-white-b2569175.html) masquerading as journalism.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've never got the Ben White obsession from either side of the argument. He's not even that good and is an obvious fanny, so just let him be.

[Baz]

Foden’s missus has a baby due, doesn’t she?

[Magic]

What match to watch, gents?

[Adramelch]

Tough choice really. I think I might stick to Belgium because I have a feeling the other two will be happy playing out a draw. If they're not, then you'd imagine their game will be more competitive.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The Belgian kit :cool:

The other game has 0-0 written all over it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I sized it up and went for dinner instead, hoping for lols in the second set of games. Could be a mistake.

[Baz]

I know a draw sees both through but Romania would be daft not to try and blow Slovakia away like they did to Ukraine.

[Adramelch]

If you're a nation that rarely ever gets to the Euro, let alone the knockout stage, you don't quite "go for it" and risk it all. If a clear winner emerges from Ukraine-Belgium early enough, then they might as well go for it, since there's zero chances they don't make it through even if they lose.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Lolkaku. Fucks that shot because he knew he was onside.

[Waffdon]

I know a draw sees both through but Romania would be daft not to try and blow Slovakia away like they did to Ukraine.

Issue is they’ll lose H2H to Belgium if the latter start winner so there’s really no point

[niko_cee]

Don't they have superior goals scored if they match results? What's the best outcome for the shit side of the draw here?

[Adramelch]

Second from this group goes to the bad side of knockouts. Third has at least a chance to get to the good side so if Belgium starts winning, Romania/Slovakia might as well go for it.

[niko_cee]

So are we saying Belgium second is the pre destined outcome then?

[Adramelch]

Yeah, that's how Gareth has masterminded the whole thing.

[Bernanke]

What game are we watching boys.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

What game are we watching boys.

Belgium for me.

I think the other is going to end 0-0.

[Adramelch]

This is clearly the best group in this Euro by the way. And not because everyone's on 3 (well 4) points currently, but not a single one of those sides is playing on white.

[Adramelch]

Well things just got spicy.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Dovbyk really should have squared it.

[Adramelch]

That's a travesty of a penalty given to Romania.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Perfectly balanced group.

[Gray Fox]

KDB getting annoyed with the zero movement ahead of him. All of the players want the ball to feel and not in behind.

[Adramelch]

KDB getting annoyed with the zero movement ahead of him. All of the players want the ball to feel and not in behind.

At the same time he had the movement from Trossard just then and his pass didn't make it past the first defender.

[Gray Fox]

At the same time he had the movement from Trossard just then and his pass didn't make it past the first defender.

Yeah this smacks of wrong team selection. In a similar situation to England, the way the main forward is playing is not helpful.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I was wondering if there's ever been a 4-4-4-4 group, thought maybe USA 94 and sure enough there was. How is that shit in my brain, but I can't remember if it's blue or black bin in a given week?

[Adramelch]

Romania-Slovakia has been the better game so far, though both are low quality.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If Southgate walks away from tonight with a second round tie against Slovakia I might punch the wall.

[Yevrah]

As it stands are we getting Slovakia? Lol and FML.

Them in the last 16, Switzerland in the quarters and 4 more years for Gareth come what may in the semi’s.

[Yevrah]

If Southgate walks away from tonight with a second round tie against Slovakia I might punch the wall.

The luck he has already got in draws is enough to last a lifetime. Chuck this tournament in on top of that and he’s clearly done some sort of deal with the devil.

[Adramelch]

As it stands are we getting Slovakia? Lol and FML.

Them in the last 16, Switzerland in the quarters and 4 more years for Gareth come what may in the semi’s.

You get Slovakia (or whoever finishes third anyway) if the Czechs or Georgia win later, other wise you get the Dutch.

[Jimmy Floyd]

As it stands are we getting Slovakia? Lol and FML.

Them in the last 16, Switzerland in the quarters and 4 more years for Gareth come what may in the semi’s.

Holland is more likely but if this group finishes as is and then Portugal/Turkey fold later then it would be Slovakia.

[Adramelch]

Honestly having watched the games, I can't say the Dutch are better than Slovakia necessarily.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Ukraine and Belgium clearly have been watching England.

[Jimmy Floyd]

All the single colour kit atrocities during this tournament and now they suddenly decide that Belgium are going to wear brown shorts. I think they're just trying to wind me up.

[Adramelch]

The other game has picked up a bit. And with it pouring and the wind being strong, it's at least good value for a mishap.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Carrasco showing all 39 of his years there.

[Adramelch]

Dovbyk arguing that yellow with "first time, first time". :D

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Dovbyk was the top scorer in La Liga, how?

[Waffdon]

Doku is ridiculously ugly

[Jimmy Floyd]

Surprised Bel-Ukr hasn't opened up more, maybe it will in the last five minutes. Belgium running headlong into France and Ukraine heading home.

[Spikey M]

They won't do it for obvious reasons, but the last games of the group stages should all be played at the same time so teams can't play for group position.

[Adramelch]

Agreed, though it wouldn't change how these two games are going to be honest. 4 points will most probably always be enough.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That was so fucking close.

[Yevrah]

It's exacerbated by 2/3rds of the team in the group stages going through too - there's not enough jeopardy to make actively trying to game it a risky strategy.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That corner from Belgium should see them out.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That run just to pass it to the keeper...

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Belgium are a disgrace.

[niko_cee]

You get Slovakia (or whoever finishes third anyway) if the Czechs or Georgia win later, other wise you get the Dutch.

So basically life savings on Czechs or Georgia?

[Gray Fox]

Belgium atrocious throughout there. Can't believe he took Doku off when he was the only one not turning back and passing to the CB/keeper.

[Shindig]

Lads, has this been a shit tournament so far? So many of the big nations have shat the bed.

[Baz]

Only Portugal and Germany look as good as expected, could maybe make a case for Spain also.

The rest? In the bin.

[Waffdon]

It’s been great outside of Scotland, England and Belgium matches

[Luke Emia]

It's exacerbated by 2/3rds of the team in the group stages going through too - there's not enough jeopardy to make actively trying to game it a risky strategy.

Yeah 24 teams brings this out so badly, better off just going the whole hog and doing 32 teams.

I assume when the World Cup goes to 48 teams we will get more of this shite though.

[Baz]

Has it? In terms of excitement has to be one of the worst group stages for a major tournament in recent memory. This format just doesn’t work. World Cup going to be even worse. Just don’t lose a game and you’re through.

[-james-]

Only Portugal and Germany look as good as expected, could maybe make a case for Spain also.

The rest? In the bin.

There is this weird amnesia where every time an international tournament rolls around people forget that pretty much every team is going to be shit to watch. People spend most of the normal season watching football and declaring "this lot are shit" about twice a week as well.

Football is just generally a bit boring/difficult to do wel innit.

[Adramelch]

I don't think the format has affected the quality for what it's worth. Third games have traditionally been a bit garbage, more so than now. But it's not a perfect system by any means.

[niko_cee]

There is this weird amnesia where every time an international tournament rolls around people forget that pretty much every team is going to be shit to watch. People spend most of the normal season watching football and declaring "this lot are shit" about twice a week as well.

Football is just generally a bit boring/difficult to do wel innit.

Whilst it's true no one remembers France struggling past Paraguay in 1998, or Brazil robbing the USA in 1994, there is is a difference between the levels of egregious shit that certain sides have, and regularly, serve up and having the odd bad or difficult game.

Spain, Portugal, Germany have all looked decent or good, Austria have been great, other teams have had at least one good game, some teams, like France, have underperformed for what the stats say they should have done, England have looked absolute dross in all three games by and large.

[niko_cee]

Apropos of not very much I've just looked up the FIFA rankings and how are Belgium still third?

OK, I see, USA are 11th. What?

And Russia are 33rd up two places. I'm confused.

[-james-]

Yeah this has been by far the worst Southgate group stage. I really wish they'd got it done at any of the last three tournaments, we're back to the embarrassing (social) media circus bit of the England side cycle.

[Shindig]

Woah. Georgia mean business. :D

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Kvaradona :cool:

[niko_cee]

It's what Gareth has foreseen.

[-james-]

Georgia :drool:

[Yevrah]

So if Georgia or Czech Republic win we get Slovakia?

[Yevrah]

There is this weird amnesia where every time an international tournament rolls around people forget that pretty much every team is going to be shit to watch. People spend most of the normal season watching football and declaring "this lot are shit" about twice a week as well.

Football is just generally a bit boring/difficult to do wel innit.

This is just more Sir Gareth apologist behaviour. There's shit and then there's what we've served up in this tournament.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Man tracking the nameless Neapolitan was a bit, er, half-arsed in his efforts.

[Jimmy Floyd]

So if Georgia or Czech Republic win we get Slovakia?

Yes sir.

[-james-]

So if Georgia or Czech Republic win we get Slovakia?


Yep

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yZue29Va2kE/mqdefault.jpg

[Yevrah]

Rather than posting about that being inevitable this morning I should have put money on it.

It's four more years.

[-james-]

This is just more Sir Gareth apologist behaviour. There's shit and then there's what we've served up in this tournament.

I didn't make the post with Southgate in mind, it's just true. I have no issue saying that England and Southgate have been awful this tournament. I just don't think it matters that much.

[Waffdon]

If England even avoid the Dutch let’s all pack up and go home

[niko_cee]

The seethe. :drool:

Might we not get the Dutch further down the line?

[-james-]

The seethe. :drool:

Might we not get the Dutch further down the line?

Yeah they'd be the likely semi opponent (or Austria for you hipsters).

[niko_cee]

Slovakia, Switzerland, Austria.

Get me a box of those baked cheese goods.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

For the first time in about 10 years, Ronaldo tested the keeper with a free kick.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Slovakia, Switzerland, Austria, Czech Republic, Slovakia again, Moravia, Bohemia, Bavaria. 'Southgate praises Trippier's determination as England move past Vulgaria into 18th knockout round'.

[Dark Soldier]

The seethe. :drool:

Might we not get the Dutch further down the line?

He's absolutely mindgamed the shit out the tournament like a proper, real manager and lads in here seething. Love to see it. Gammons the lot.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Red card for the republic (I reject this 'Czechia' codswallop) so might be down to the Georgians now.

[Browning]

That red card for the Czech Republic was some bullshit.

Not sure what we expect when they’re being managed by Phil Mitchell though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Ronaldo's going to be sent off if he carries on like this. This ref hates him and rightly so. A vile man.

[Yevrah]

It'll need something like that to help Georgia hold out here, there's no way they will otherwise (or without relying Sir Gareth's deal with the devil).

[Adramelch]

He's absolutely mindgamed the shit out the tournament like a proper, real manager and lads in here seething. Love to see it. Gammons the lot.

He's so good, UEFA are actively conspiring against him with that red card for the Czechs. Shameful.

[Magic]

Why couldn't Scotland do this?

[Magic]

Portugal are properly bottling this. :drool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That dive :harold:

[Adramelch]

Portugal with a three for three when it comes to yellows for diving.

[niko_cee]

Portuguese footballers really are amongst the worst of humanity.

[-james-]

Ronaldo wants a second yellow for dissent, make yourself a legend ref.

[-james-]

Portugal effectively choose their opponents here. If they stop Georgia from qualifying then Hungary qualify and they play them, otherwise they get Slovenia.

[Waffdon]

Portugal are properly bottling this. :drool:

They’ve already won the group. what are they bottling

[Magic]

That is SO not what I thought she looked like.

[Mike]

I got Slovakia in my classes sweepstakes and cheered the goal like an actual fan.
The lads!

[Magic]

They’ve already won the group. what are they bottling

Winning m8

[Adramelch]

The lads!

They had a bullshit penalty call against them as well. Could have even topped the group.

[randomlegend]

That's a fantastic save.

Also that's a penalty for me.

Portuglol.

Edit: actually on the angle VAR was looking at I don't think it is.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

What a save by the Georgian lad.

[niko_cee]

Penalty.

:drool:

[Waffdon]

Ridiculous save. Wouldn’t be shocked if he’s signed up by someone after this tournament

[Baz]

Georgia :cool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Southgate on VAR as well, how does he find the time.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Tidy penalty.

[niko_cee]

Shame he saved it really as it'd have been disallowed.

I don't get how that is really that 'clear and obvious', there's contact, but little more than a touch and nowhere near the level of contact on that Scotch lad.

[Adramelch]

The Georgian keeper (I don't dare to try writing his name) has been immense in every game so far. Absolute steal for Valencia.

[-james-]

This is so good.

[Yevrah]

Ok, all aboard the Gareth bus. It's clearly futile to protest and he's going to be our manager until after I'm dead.

[randomlegend]

Willy Sagnol being Georgia manager is inexplicably brilliant.

[Baz]

Micky Tadze 40/1 still top scorer 4 places

[Danny]

So as it stands, who do we get?

Not that it’s going to stay that way

[Dark Soldier]

Ok, all aboard the Gareth bus. It's clearly futile to protest and he's going to be our manager until after I'm dead.

Welcome aboard, sir. The air is fresh and the food is great. DM me your address and I'll send the pinbadge.

[Baz]

So as it stands, who do we get?

Not that it’s going to stay that way

Slovakia

Live as it stands. Ro16 fixtures for third-place teams.

England vs. Slovakia
Spain vs. Georgia
Portugal vs. Slovenia
Romania vs. Netherlands

[Adramelch]

So as it stands, who do we get?

Not that it’s going to stay that way

Slovakia if Georgia win, Netherlands if they don't.

[Magic]

Fuck sake mon the Portuguese.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Ronaldo SEETHING :harold:

[CJay]

Will we get a photo of Kvara surrounded by opposition players during that dribble a la Maradona against whoever? That was brilliant.

[Adramelch]

He's so mesmerizing to watch at times.

Also, it never made sense to me how kicking someone on the head with a bicycle kick is usually just a simple foul.

[randomlegend]

He's so mesmerizing to watch at times.

Also, it never made sense to me how kicking someone on the head with a bicycle kick is usually just a simple foul.

Because bicycle kicks are cool.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Will we get a photo of Kvara surrounded by opposition players during that dribble a la Maradona against whoever? That was brilliant.

Almost.

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/2159407737/de/foto/gelsenkirchen-germany-khvicha-kvaratskhelia-of-georgia-falls-to-the-floor-whilst-surrounded-by.jpg?s=2048x2048&w=gi&k=20&c=7FZkLkRZ1RdyP2qFmYu3nD2N2JIcU1VGdAT7QEbO2Ps=

[Adramelch]

Now for the Czechs to score a second which would leave Turkey out and see Georgia advance as second, courtesy of yellow cards.

[randomlegend]

Kvaratskhelia has the look of the character in a British gangster film who goes along with it all to try and belong but gets bullied by the others.

[CJay]

Mikautadze is a fantastic player.

Three most cohesive teams over the three games so far:
Spain
Austria
Georgia

Switzerland probably deserve to be up there too actually.

[Waffdon]

Mikautadze is a fantastic player.

Three most cohesive teams over the three games so far:
Spain
Austria
Georgia

Switzerland probably deserve to be up there too actually.

Scotland battered two of them in qualifying :(

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The Georgian keeper :cool:

[Adramelch]

Portugal still probably up there to be honest. I know they lost today and all but it was the second string.

[Adramelch]

Great finish for Turkey's second.

[Gray Fox]

More late drama. What a tournament.

[Waffdon]

Turkey and Georgia both deserve going through tonight after that first game

[Magic]

All the tiny teams going through except Bcotland.

[Waffdon]

Pathetic groups half them were in tbf

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Soucek :lol:

[Waffdon]

20 cards in total in that Turkey game

[Jimmy Floyd]

Georgia into the tougher half of the draw. Not sure Sagnol has thought this through.

[Adramelch]

Pathetic groups half them were in tbf

As opposed to your group of death?

[Waffdon]

As opposed to your group of death?

The third toughest group I’d say. So yeah lol

[Serj]

Turkey then. Our national team historically has never dealt well with the few times they were favorites, so it will be uncomfortably close at least. Should really beat them, though.

[Serj]

Also just realized that, if we win, we're most likely paying the Netherlands again in the quarter final, two matches after playing them in the group.

How boring. I'll throw my support behind Romania for that alone

[Adramelch]

Them missing Akaydin might have an impact. I know he had the horrendous mistake against Portugal but it feels like he has carried their defence a lot in this tournament.

[Manc]

What did I miss?

[CJay]

There’s a Dutch football podcast call ‘de dere helft’ (The Third Half). Coincidence or is it breakaways from whatever the Dutch part of the board was called back in the day? I heard it referenced on Football Clichés the other day.

https://www.dederdehelft.nl/

[Magic]

Probably those Benelux gimps.

[Waffdon]

Kendry Paez :wub:

[John Arne]

I see Guehi getting a lot of praise online and in the podcasts... I can't be the only one who thinks he's been a bit of a bombscare? Like decent 90% of the time, but a big, big howler in every game so far.

[niko_cee]

Harsh.

Think he's looked decent and has generally recovered well from any errors. An order of magnitude better than Maguire.

Not quite the next Bobby Moore yet.

[Yevrah]

I think he's been good, but he's barely been tested so it's hard to say how well he'll do in the tougher games en route to us winning this. I'm sure a pep talk with Sir Gareth will keep him at the top of his game as required though.

[Ben]

Spain vs. Germany quarter final.

This is what it must feel like to be an Indian cricket fan, with the whole draw rigged in your favour. :drool:

[Waffdon]

The only upside to all of this is that whoever makes the final from the hard side of the draw will presumably be shit hot and thus should take care of England. We hope.

[Yevrah]

Waff, you simply can't fight the forces that Sir Gareth has on his side. How can one beat what one cannot see?

[Yevrah]

England back to 7/2 and outright favourites again. A touch long I think and not a fair reflection of the way Sir Gareth has navigated us through our group and managed the draw for the knockout rounds. Momentum is clearly building so I see that being backed into 3/1 by the time we play our last 16 game.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It sounds like you and DS have joined that mob from series 1 of The Leftovers.

[Baz]

This whole "good side" of the draw thing is ridiculous and so outdated. Like if you've watched a fair amount of the Euros you'd say the bad side of the draw is wherever Spain and Austria are. Spoiler: Austria are in the same side as England.

Just because England are seemingly away from "big names" like France and Belgium, so what? Both have been turgid. I'd argue England currently have a better chance agasint France than Switzerland.

It's not like teams like Georgia and Slovenia are breathing a sigh of relief for avoiding tournament favourites England, just cos they're a big team. Chances are Georgia would roll England over, like they did to Portugal B last night.

England are no better off facing the likes of Slovakia and Switzerland than if they played Belgium or Slovenia again. Slovakia have scored more goals than England and Switzerland got as many points as England, while also scoring loads more. There's a good chance England would (and will) get beat off either of those.

There's no easy side of the draw when you're abysmal because your manager is so bad he'd probably be chuffed with a 0-0 draw against Moore United Under 8s.

[Adramelch]

Agreed to a degree but at the same time if you go up against France and both sides are shit, there's still a decent chance you just get Mbappe'd.

That is to say, England has a unique way of making both sides play like shit, and once you're there you'd rather be facing the Bozeniks of the world.

[SvN]

I think there's also the mental factor. England are more likely to shit themselves against a big nation.

[niko_cee]

Whilst there's a good chance anyone on England's side of the draw might beat them, there's a higher chance that most of the teams on the other side would. England also have some pedigree for beating tier 2 nations in knock-out competition, whereas they have absolutely none for more 'established' nations. Obviously it could still end up Slovakia/Italy/Holland which isn't, on paper/in the mind, the lolfest that Slovakia/Switzerland/Austria would be, even if that latter sides have played better.

[-james-]

This whole "good side" of the draw thing is ridiculous and so outdated. Like if you've watched a fair amount of the Euros you'd say the bad side of the draw is wherever Spain and Austria are. Spoiler: Austria are in the same side as England.

Just because England are seemingly away from "big names" like France and Belgium, so what? Both have been turgid. I'd argue England currently have a better chance agasint France than Switzerland.

It's not like teams like Georgia and Slovenia are breathing a sigh of relief for avoiding tournament favourites England, just cos they're a big team. Chances are Georgia would roll England over, like they did to Portugal B last night.

England are no better off facing the likes of Slovakia and Switzerland than if they played Belgium or Slovenia again. Slovakia have scored more goals than England and Switzerland got as many points as England, while also scoring loads more. There's a good chance England would (and will) get beat off either of those.

There's no easy side of the draw when you're abysmal because your manager is so bad he'd probably be chuffed with a 0-0 draw against Moore United Under 8s.



The mistake here is implying that the only available data is the three group games and the sentiment down your local.

Austria are not actually better than England. Not even close.

[-james-]

England are a bit too short in the outright but favs is correct. Conditional probability baby.

[Yevrah]

This whole "good side" of the draw thing is ridiculous and so outdated. Like if you've watched a fair amount of the Euros you'd say the bad side of the draw is wherever Spain and Austria are. Spoiler: Austria are in the same side as England.

Just because England are seemingly away from "big names" like France and Belgium, so what? Both have been turgid. I'd argue England currently have a better chance agasint France than Switzerland.

It's not like teams like Georgia and Slovenia are breathing a sigh of relief for avoiding tournament favourites England, just cos they're a big team. Chances are Georgia would roll England over, like they did to Portugal B last night.

England are no better off facing the likes of Slovakia and Switzerland than if they played Belgium or Slovenia again. Slovakia have scored more goals than England and Switzerland got as many points as England, while also scoring loads more. There's a good chance England would (and will) get beat off either of those.

There's no easy side of the draw when you're abysmal because your manager is so bad he'd probably be chuffed with a 0-0 draw against Moore United Under 8s.

Yeah, this isn't the way tournament football works. There's a hierarchy involved, which is formed from a combination of historical standing and quality of the current set-up. When you beat a team above you in the hierarchy in a knock out match (which does happen quite often) that's your final and essentially your tournament win, so to go and repeat it a second time is much much harder due to the mental energy you've spent and controlling the elation you're feeling at achieving something great (and happens much less often as a result).

For example, let's say England beat Slovakia and Switzerland beat Italy (which I could well see happening) so that the two then meet in the quarter-finals. Switzerland have already had their tournament 'win' and are much less likely to repeat that again against England as a result, even (in the incredibly unlikely event) that England don't play that well against them.

There are outliers to this, Greece and Denmark being the classic examples, but it really doesn't happen very often and even less so in the World Cup.

[Yevrah]

England are a bit too short in the outright but favs is correct. Conditional probability baby.

You need to check your negativity. 7/2 is too long.

[Yevrah]

It sounds like you and DS have joined that mob from series 1 of The Leftovers.

I was blind to it for too long, but now I can see and realise I have sinned. In Sir Gareth we are dealing with a force so exceptional that words can't really do it justice, but I shall try. The false sense of security he's lulled these teams we'll be facing into is a masterstroke. Slovakia will now be thinking that La Liga's player of the year, Bayern's fastest ever goalscorer and Man City's metronome offer no threat whatsoever. They'll carry that thinking into the last 16 and boom, then it'll hit them. We'll be in the semi-final before anyone realises and when they do they'll wonder how it's happened and how a team that have conceded only one goal to that point (and a worldie at that) can ever be beaten.

[niko_cee]

I didn't watch or particularly follow the Czech Rep game but fucking hell that was a lot of cards.

11 yellows for Turkey? Good grief.

[Dark Soldier]

Yev's turn here is like when Stone Cold joined Vince.

[Ben]

Stone Cold turned heel though. Big face turn from Yev here joining the enlightened.

[Waffdon]

He needs to give it up. Normal Yev is refreshing

[Dark Soldier]

Stone Cold turned heel though. Big face turn from Yev here joining the enlightened.

Nah man he's shown he's fickle and a turncoat. If England were to lose, which they won't, he'd be cracking me into the ring posts and putting me through a table.

[Yevrah]

Haha. I'll get bored and revert to what I actually think soon enough, but for now this act will probably bring me more joy than continuing to watch a dogshit England team and moan about it. I've done enough of that for now and have covered every conceivable horror show imaginable.

[niko_cee]

The key is that we continue to progress whilst playing the worst football imaginable.

It'll all come unstuck if any sort of mood of national euphoria takes hold. Expectations must be managed.

[Yevrah]

Yep, a nice 120 minute safety first 1-0 win over Slovakia with chances for us and them kept to an absolute minimum would be ideal. If Gallagher wasn't taken off to avoid a second yellow and Mainoo starts I'd like to see a mediocre (but DEFINITELY no better than that) performance from him too. Absolutely no need to create new saviours and heroes having killed the existing ones, so if I were Gareth I'd be saying to him to temper the energy a bit, stay out of the attacking third and try and misplace a few passes.

[Yevrah]

Having thought about it more, that last bit will be a challenge given how good Mainoo has looked this season for both Man Utd and when he's appeared for England, so I think the only way to navigate it is to buddy him up with Jude Bellingham and get him to explain how he's done it. I have absolute faith Sir Gareth will have this covered though.

[CJay]

I didn't watch or particularly follow the Czech Rep game but fucking hell that was a lot of cards.

11 yellows for Turkey? Good grief.

Very Turkey for their most important player to pick up a yellow card for dissent, meaning he’ll miss their round of 16 tie.

[Danny]

1805929038302593448

Speaking of Stone Cold great man appeared on my twitter feed yesterday.

His beer isn’t too bad either. Hard to find though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The key is that we continue to progress whilst playing the worst football imaginable.

It'll all come unstuck if any sort of mood of national euphoria takes hold. Expectations must be managed.

It would be very fitting if the 60 whatever it is years of hurt was finally ended by a team that everyone hated and despised.

[Shindig]

Wild theory: Southgate's just been a vessel of Allardyce's will. Big Sam has picked the team ever since he was rumbled.