June: The Euro 2020-ish Group Stages

[Ian]

The People spoke (https://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/showthread.php?2872-European-Championship-threads-poll) and One Fred won out though there was a lot of chat about one per stage and stuff so I'm thinking one for the groups then one for the knockouts as a whole with a poll of the remaining teams so people can predict England's glorious bringing home of Football. Obviously these threads can serve for any other business for the month as well.

The Squads: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2020_squads
The Groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2020#Group_stage
The Schedule: https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro-2020/news/0254-0d41684d1216-06773df7faed-1000--euro-2020-all-the-fixtures/
The TV Schedule: https://www.live-footballontv.com/euro-2020-on-tv.html

Some shit from Baz:

Fantasy Football anyone?

https://gaming.uefa.com/en/uefaeuro2020fantasyfootball/leagues/30BRTA7Z01/00540068006500200054006800690072006400200048006100 6C0066/Baz

Or get get the app (Android (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.uefa.euro2016&hl=en_GB&gl=US) | Apple (https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/uefa-fantasy-predictor-games/id1107602457)) create your Euro 2020 Fantasy Football team and join the league using the code 30BRTA7Z01

He also asked me to post a 'betting guide' in here but get that shit in the betting thread.

[Ian]

Also just realised I wasn't paying attention when typing out the poll question so I'll let a mod decide whether to short that to an actual full question or leave my idiocy there for the ages as I don't think I can edit it.

EDIT: For fuck's sake I forgot to make the poll public as well.

[Baz]

Delete the thread and try again

[Jimmy Floyd]

Turkey v Italy must be one of the better opening fixtures there has been in a while. Usually it's The Hosts v the Republic of Outer Shitalo and the corrupt home president sits in the stands looking smug as the hosts run out 3-0 winners.

[Ian]

Obviously 2010 was the best opener, then. The hosts were the underdogs, featured Team Pepe AND had Vuvuzelas. :drool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

That was a pretty good one, also notable for the absurd Peter Drury commentary, and what was actually a glorious goal by Tshabalala.

Russia v Saudi Arabia wasn't it last time? Good lord.

[Ian]

Forgot that was the opener last time. :D Fucking hell.

[Shindig]

Euro 2008 opened with Switzerland v Czech Republic. :uhoh:

[Spikey M]

Obviously 2010 was the best opener, then. The hosts were the underdogs, featured Team Pepe AND had Vuvuzelas. :drool:

And Suarez fully arrived as a BASTARD at that 'tourn'.

[Spikey M]

You've also left "not enough Freds" off the poll.

[-james-]

The worst thing about it is the group stage format. 32 games of minor footballing nations playing for a draw in the hope they can sneak a third place and not be one of the eight teams knocked out.

[Baz]

Greenwood’s out injured.

[Waffdon]

Why is he taking an unfit Henderson? Surprised Ward-Prowse is being snubbed as well, Southgate loves a set piece.

[Ian]

Do we think Greenwood would have got much of a look in anyway? His form is much improved but Sancho would definitely have been ahead of him and I assume that's also a position he might play either Mount or Rashford with the other being sharing the other side with Sterling.

[7om]

I printed off my wall chart yesterday. I usually can’t be arsed with international football but I’m really looking forward to this.

[Baz]

I usually can’t be arsed with international football but I’m really looking forward to this.Same. Feels like footballs back for the first time since Liverpool lost to Atletico Madrid.

[Ian]

Surely nobody can be arsed with international football between tournaments?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Clearly you aren't as thrilled as me about the return of Asian World Cup qualifiers, headlined by Japan's 10-0 win over Burma at the weekend (Yuya Osako scored five, to add to his three in the earlier 14-0 win over Mongolia. God I miss the calendar year goalscorers)

Also sad to report that North Korea have withdrawn from the World Cup, mid-qualifiers.

[Ian]

What's Roy "The Crush" Krishna's tally for the year?

[Baz]

Surely nobody can be arsed with international football between tournaments?Some people are but I mean like I’ve barely watched any England games in the recent World Cups/Euros, but gone out of my way to arrange going to a beer garden with some mates next Sunday to try and catch the full-on Ingerlund hype bug.

[Ian]

Make sure to social distance so you don't get EUROS FEVER!!

[Jimmy Floyd]

What's Roy "The Crush" Krishna's tally for the year?

Still banging them in, top scorer in the Indian Super League with 14 in just 20 games, and also the joint most assists with former Atletico Madrid and Blackpool hitman Alberto Noguera. It was some golden boot race, actually. As well as the aforementioned, Krishna held off ex Reading marksman Adam Le Fondre, 2002 World Cup veteran Bartholomew Ogbeche, and Jamshedpur and Lithuania's much-travelled frontman Nerijus Valskis.

[Ian]

Adam Le Fondre, fucking hell. There's a name I hadn't thought about in a long time.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I didn't realise the Euros were so soon.

I thought they were still a month away.

[Don]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2zwrdZXwAEhG1_?format=jpg&name=medium

He's bottled making a decision.

[Pleb]

That squad is horrific.

[Baz]

Four right backs. :happycry:

Bellingham hopefully going for more than “the experience” like when Sven took Walcott, considering Bellingham is already better than a lot of the other players.

[Pleb]

Put Bellingham in goal and we'll still lose 6 points to Croatia and Scotland of all teams.

[phonics]

When was the last time Taz said something and wasn’t proven wrong almost immediately. He was first on open the clubs and now his enormous nose is entirely useless.

Think it makes sense if he reverts to 3 at the back.

Shaw/Saka and Arnold/Trippier on the wings and you can revert to a 4 easily.

[-james-]

That squad is horrific.

Is this bait?

[Waffdon]

He’s got 5 midfielders there and 2 are injury doubts and Mount is wasted playing from deep. England could have done with Tomori over Coady or Mings. Maguire the only decent centre half there and he’s nothing special and out injured at the minute.

The attack should see them do decent enough but I wouldn’t trust Southgate much. Be a blessing in disguise like in 2018 when he finishes 2nd and avoids France/Germany/Portugal

[-james-]

I was looking through the Finland squad today and center back Daniel Michael O'Shaughnessy caught my eye. That's going to be Alexis Mac Allister commentary times a million.

[Don]

When was the last time Taz said something and wasn’t proven wrong almost immediately. He was first on open the clubs and now his enormous nose is entirely useless.

This was somewhat out the blue and I'm not even sure it makes sense :D you wanna throw hands just say so, no need to tickle my balls.

[Offshore Toon]

Someone do a result prediction competition for the Euros and lets sort this out once and for all.

[Don]

That would require these melts to actually have some opinions :happycry:

[Offshore Toon]

Points could be based on odds to stop Mahow winning, and it also immediately puts those in the know ahead when Turkey beat Italy.

[Lofty]

Cant be arsed finding the correct thread: Ancelotti leaves Everton for Real Madrid :D

[phonics]

I'd do predictions but I just can't be arsed to get new predictions in every other day.

[Baz]

Someone do a result prediction competition for the Euros and lets sort this out once and for all.

The app linked in the OP for fantasy football also has match prediction and tournament prediction games, but no leagues afaik. Can post our picks though, like this:

https://i.imgur.com/GN10qKK.png

PS EVERYONE JOIN THE FANTASY FOOTBALL

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

England will finish with 2 points in the group. One each from Scotland and the Czech lot.

They'll just about qualify (on goals scored) and then get dumped out in the first knockout game.

Facts.

[SincereTheRebel]

I would rather see Kyle Walker at CB over BlockHead

[Spikey M]

I'd rather have Captain Tom and his walker over that cuboid cunt.

[Lewis]

We will walk our group, and then I can't make sense of how it works other than oo-er we might get Germany or Ronaldo or even France if they throw the first match.

[Ian]

Given Kyle Walker seemed to try and set up an opposition goal every time he touched the ball in 2018 I'm not sure what the argument would for him as a centre-half over anybody for England.

[Shindig]

At best, he has the pace to recover but I wouldn't want him near an England squad.

[Waffdon]

https://i.ibb.co/5KkZRb5/5-B53-BF4-A-5-A7-C-4382-AAA0-538-A35744-E4-E.jpg

Can’t believe I’ve predicted that all 100% correctly

[phonics]

https://i.imgur.com/Ww6Sjuz.png

[Don]

https://i.ibb.co/GWCvkks/Screenshot-20210601-223554-Whats-App.jpg

We need a name to categorise these fucking dogshit nations who specialise in low-scoring affairs with their national pool which strictly prohibits any kind of character or flair (no, Hamsik's haircut does not qualify). They're the international equivalent of Burnley minus the organisation and plan.

Pandev's boys were seconds from victory though :cool:

[Lewis]

The Bore-draw Pact.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Slovenia have to be the world champions of pointlessness. Since that underdog run at Euro 2000, which was fun, I don't think they've had a good player or really anything interesting to say about them.

[SincereTheRebel]

The fixtures sneak up quick

[SincereTheRebel]

Slovenia and Slovakia should just merge to avoid confusion.

[Spikey M]

Bring back Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia.

[Baz]

I’ve got Denmark in a sweepstake. :yn:

[Lewis]

Solid booing from the North Yorkshire crowd. :cool:

[Shindig]

Christ, that was bleak. I'd hate to be a footballer.

[Lewis]

The infamous Turkey game in Sunderland was probably the last decent England atmosphere. More North East fixtures please.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b0xvtjlJu8

Rustu looks like an absolute clown on the highlights. More memories ruined.

[Lewis]

I wonder whether anyone has ever had a better five minutes of football than he did towards the end of that Croatia match.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Watching a bit of France v pays de galles with nothing else to do tonight. Really tremendous effort from O'Williams to get sent off for deliberate handball in a friendly, but then Benzema had the penalty (well) saved, the useless twat.

Why are they playing people like Mbappe in this? Surely you cotton wool them for a week.

[Manc]

Coady and Mings terrify me.

[Shindig]

Watching a bit of France v pays de galles with nothing else to do tonight. Really tremendous effort from O'Williams to get sent off for deliberate handball in a friendly, but then Benzema had the penalty (well) saved, the useless twat.

Why are they playing people like Mbappe in this? Surely you cotton wool them for a week.

They might have some covid considerations. That's why Holland's first team are out tonight whilst the Scots have 7 out.

[Waffdon]

Coady and Mings terrify me.

Mings is the dirtiest bastard in football. Should have been sent off earlier

[Manc]

DCL over the likes of Ings & Bamford really is mind-boggling.

[Shindig]

I'll be honest, outside of Kane I'm not sure who I could bank on up front for England.

[Raoul Duke]

Realised whilst watching there was no idiotic "England band" droning on with their shit music. Covid :cool:

[7om]

Why was Lingard starting when he hasn’t made the squad?

[Shindig]

Southgate wanted the cut guys to feature.

[Yevrah]

Such monumentally dumb logic.

[Raoul Duke]

The final squad submission isn't until just before the tournament starts so if people get injured then they can be swapped in.

We're also missing the people who played in European finals so might as well give the rest of the players a run out.

[Shindig]

According to 5Live, he gave the players the option to go home but who leaves an England camp unless they're injured? It make sense to play them, to be honest. It gives you the option to preserve some players.

[Lewis]

Pre-tournament games are always pointless, and especially so now when everybody is shagged. They might as well just go on a week-long bender together like olden days European Cup final preparation.

[niko_cee]

Really tremendous effort from O'Williams to get sent off for deliberate handball in a friendly

Shouldn't be overlooked quite how ridiculous a decision that was [VAR's love bunging the French dodgy penalties on super slo-mo handballs *ahem* world cup final], and also how much it shows a problem with the rule if you can point blank it into someone's arm, get a penalty and have them sent off (this was not a Suarez situation).

[Jimmy Floyd]

It seemed like the ref was giving it the 'Look, mate, I'm really sorry, but rules are rules...' treatment, when he could have just not sent him off and no one (including his assessors) would have cared.

[Mazuuurk]

The Bore-draw Pact.


The Vladis-Draw collective.

[Baz]

Ben White should be going and should be captain.

[randomlegend]

It seemed like the ref was giving it the 'Look, mate, I'm really sorry, but rules are rules...' treatment, when he could have just not sent him off and no one (including his assessors) would have cared.

*Lloris said even the French players were asking the ref not to send him off.

[Don]

Our quest for qualification into the proper stage of WCQ is determined by 4 games in 12 days starting in under 3 hours.

Quieroz's replacement Marc Wilmots outed himself as a complete terrorist after defeats to Bahrain and Iraq which leave us needing virtually 4 wins. We almost bankrupted our football federation in sacking him and had to replace him with a Croatian nobody who had domestic experience in Iran.

2 games are give-mes against HK and Cambodia but Iraq and Bahrain will be tricky, particularly after AFC had the brainwave of moving all remaining group games to Bahrain which meant we have lost home advantage in both key games, Bahrain have got double the advantage and the new host country is also now crumbling under COVID and experiencing 40 degree temperatures :cab:

Christ, I'd suck so much dick to have Quieroz back.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I was looking at that group earlier, Iran have been properly screwed, though tbh the gulf states always get handed everything on a plate in international sport so no change there.

However, as long as you draw with Bahrain I think you can go through on GD by beating an already qualified Iraq at the end.

[Don]

As if things couldn't get worse, North Korea's withdrawal has meant AFC yet again doing wonders and deciding the results against bottom-placed teams won't count in deciding the best 2nd place runners up so we have lost our 14-0 Cambodia result (along with our 2nd game against them) so today's HK game requires an emphasis on boosting our GD.

[Lewis]

Carlos Queiroz is unemployed? United asleep at the wheel once again.

[Mellberg]

As if things couldn't get worse, North Korea's withdrawal has meant AFC yet again doing wonders and deciding the results against bottom-placed teams won't count in deciding the best 2nd place runners up so we have lost our 14-0 Cambodia result (along with our 2nd game against them) so today's HK game requires an emphasis on boosting our GD.

Read this post before the poster and thought it was John Arne. Had to double take.

[Shindig]

Don Arne.

[Reg]

Alexander-Arnold out of the Euros. I think Southgate should go for Lingard. Having Godfrey or White (much as I like him) there is unlikely to make much difference, whereas Lingard could feasibly win us a game. He's a BIG GAME player and is confident. Plus he's right bantz and would presumably be good for the group.

[Manc]

He's a must imo. That touch to put Grealish through was sumptuous.

[Baz]

Yeah Lingard should deffo go.

[Lewis]

Jesse Lingard scoring the consolation when the first good team we play batters us. :cool:

[Mellberg]

Zero need for a winger. We're well stocked. Ward-Prowse (sorry Ollie).

[Shindig]

Actually, yes. We could use someone other than Trippier on set-pieces.

[Ian]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2021/jun/03/england-football-european-championship-euro-2020-scoring-first

That graphic showing our record after scoring first in tournaments is one of those where if I'd sat down and thought about it I'd probably have guessed around that percentage, or maybe a bit higher allowing for us usually escaping the groups but just having it laid out like that it's pretty glaring.

[Jimmy Floyd]

1-0 up, finish 1-1 is a speciality of ours, or at least it feels like that in my head. Let's see if there are actually some tournament examples.

Colombia 2018
Russia 2016
France 2012
USA 2010
Sweden 2002
Switzerland 1996
Germany 1996

Also a menagerie of 1-0 up, lose 2-1:

Croatia 2018
Iceland 2016
France 2004

That's without even touching on our various crimes at Euro 2000.

[Ian]

Yeah, I mean if you asked me "England go 1-0 up, what do they do next?" then the answer is invariably to retreat deeper and deeper into our own half and invite pressure. But given that's since 2000 when some of those other teams have also had long stretches of being average really hammers it home.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Here's a damning stat which I have just researched. Since 1982 (when Bryan Robson scored in the first minute vs France and we went on to win 3-1), we have gone 1-0 up in the first five minutes of tournament games six times. We have gone on to lose all six, either outright or on penalties.

[Ian]

I wonder if, as Liew mentions in that article, 'scoring too early' really is only a thing in England.

[Yevrah]

Here's a damning stat which I have just researched. Since 1982 (when Bryan Robson scored in the first minute vs France and we went on to win 3-1), we have gone 1-0 up in the first five minutes of tournament games six times. We have gone on to lose all six, either outright or on penalties.

It's a shot in the arm for those we have here that say any prior evidence of our failings has no bearing on what we do now. Since 1982, we must have had what, six completely different teams?

[Yevrah]

I wonder if, as Liew mentions in that article, 'scoring too early' really is only a thing in England.

It's a proper losers mentality, I know that much. And when you think about it, utterly insane.

[niko_cee]

Perhaps, but anymore insane that expecting 'J-Lingz' to be some sort of situation saving difference maker?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Because English sports coaching is all about orthodoxy and following the rules, generally our saving graces in other sports are hired in forriners. That 'gentleman's agreement' bullshit is really costly, we could have got ten years out of Angel Rangel.

[Baz]

Perhaps, but anymore insane that expecting 'J-Lingz' to be some sort of situation saving difference maker?He’s in shithot form, surely that counts for something?

[Reg]

Perhaps, but anymore insane that expecting 'J-Lingz' to be some sort of situation saving difference maker?
He's got a good record in big games.

There's a good argument for Ward-Prowse too though.

Who is/are our first choice free kick and corner taker(s)?

[Baz]

Trippier innit?

[Don]

Looking to set-piece specialists when you have Grealish, Foden, Sancho and Kane is a great indicator of your failings.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This isn't chump club football with your 'movement' and all that bullshit, set pieces are hugely important in internationals. We turned a dogshit team into semi-finalists at '18 on the back of them.

[Don]

You don't even have a single dominant header of the ball so naturalise Sinisa Mihailjlhjlhjlhjiovic for all it matters. At least Slabhead could cause some problems.

[niko_cee]

Kane on corners. :baz:

[Reg]

Trippier innit?
Will he be on the pitch to take them?

I guess maybe he is our first choice right back? Difficult to tell…

[mo]

Hopefully Harry Kane again :yn:

[-james-]

Here's a damning stat which I have just researched. Since 1982 (when Bryan Robson scored in the first minute vs France and we went on to win 3-1), we have gone 1-0 up in the first five minutes of tournament games six times. We have gone on to lose all six, either outright or on penalties.


It's a shot in the arm for those we have here that say any prior evidence of our failings has no bearing on what we do now. Since 1982, we must have had what, six completely different teams?

Is it really a surprise that a nation that has regularly been knocked out early has failed to win matches? The article mentions Netherlands, Germany, France, Spain etc as having >80% records when scoring first. Well they've also all won over 60% of their tournament matches since 2000. England have won 39% in that period. I see no evidence that the order goals are scored in is predictive of future performance.

The idea that England's squad from 1996 have any bearing on how they will do this summer is insane. Like trying to predict this year's Champions League final based on how many goals Salomon Kalou scored in 2007.

[Ian]

Just because Paul Gascoigne's fat arse isn't going to travel forward in time 25 years and put us out of this tournament doesn't mean that whatever factors contributed to us performing in broadly the same way for a period of decades can't contribute to the same again this time out.

[-james-]

It might do, but it doesn't that they're connected. Southgate is pretty cautious but that's pretty much the meta for international football.

[Ian]

Maybe it's chance and it's all been for different reasons but it doesn't change the fact that our performances as we go out tend to have an awful lot in common with each other.

Teams can play well and go out or go out looking like they had a plan, with England it's almost always crabbing, backfoot bullshit.

[Shindig]

Yeah, I don't remember much about the Croatia semi final but I sense we didn't create much. We're not direct and we don't really run at sides. Sterling can do that but he's also dicking about at the byline waiting for Rashford or someone to sulk into the box. Assuming Sterling doesn't try to do it all himself.

[Lewis]

That losing from the lead statistic could be down to playing a certain way that leaves us open to fatigue, or having players who can't cope with pressure, or having managers who can't react to developments in the game (or all three). All of those things could still have relevance to today, which is how the pattern would have emerged in the first place.

[Don]

Italy are posting up some mighty impressive form. Haven't lost for almost 3 years and winning games real comfortably. Quality scattered all over the pitch but in a very classy, understated way in an age of FIFA 'packs' and mixed-race physical specimen. Do it for Mussolini, lads :cool:

[Spoonsky]

And the defence still anchored by Chiellini and Bonucci :D

I’d love to see them win it. They had a great run in 2016 and I think if Pelle doesn’t hit the worst penalty of all time in the shootout against the Germans they could have potentially beaten France in the semis.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'd love to see them go out early and go through yet another round of entitled histrionics.

[Baz]

Berardi is class.

[Mellberg]

Italian tantrums are the best tantrums.

Last four World Cup winners:

Italy
Spain
Germany
France

Spot the missing piece of the jigsaw.

[Lewis]

Japan 2030.

[Shindig]

Featuring a 64 year old Kazu Muira up front. :cool:

[niko_cee]

Everton 'in talks ' with Andrea Pirlo sounds pretty lol.

As is the entirely expected Spurs no longer interested in Conte as he wanted money to spend line. They're actually in quite a tricky position the spuds, could go backwards quickly if they meff this appointment.

[Don]

https://i.ibb.co/QdMfcVh/4227.jpg

Ridiculous :D

[Shindig]

That can't be all of Grealish. :D

[Waffdon]

Why’s he called up 3 right backs and still playing Godfrey there :D

[phonics]

Have they changed the spelling of Romania in English? Rou is what we’d use in french.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Roumania in English is archaic, so probably some boomer manning the decks.

[Manc]

Really hoping for a Rashford leg break. Woeful footballer.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've been half-watching this for ten minutes and only just now suddenly realised oh shit, we're the team in blue.

[randomlegend]

Grealish is such a cheating bastard

[Luca]

Romania actually changed their 3-letter code from ROM to ROU some years ago.

[Danny]

Captains penalty.

[Manc]

Finishing has been abysmal.

[Ian]

It's coming home.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Eddie Howe to take over for the World Cup?

[Yevrah]

Didn't catch any of this, but seemingly that's two utterly pointless and rancid warm up games.

I don't understand Marcus Rashford, in that I don't get what he actually is. His scoring record (one season aside) is nowhere near good enough to be a striker and he doesn't seem particularly creative either.

If we stink up this tournament I'm going to be livid.

[Kikó]

Germany Portugal u21 final on now.

[Ian]

I don't understand Marcus Rashford, in that I don't get what he actually is. His scoring record (one season aside) is nowhere near good enough to be a striker and he doesn't seem particularly creative either.

If you looked purely at his stats steadily going up season on season leading to 20+ goals in the last two years you'd think he was coming along nicely but he's managed to hit that this year despite not ever really hitting form or looking that good.

I can't think of (m)any games this year where he's properly threatened the defence consistently, he just semi-regularly manages to get a goal.

[niko_cee]

At least we have conclusively learned that Henderson shouldn't be anywhere near a penalty, under any circumstances, unless we somehow take Spain to the 11th in a shoot-out and they have De Gea playing.

[Shindig]

Nah, penalties are a lottery. Henderson struck it well but the keeper guessed right.

[Kikó]

If you looked purely at his stats steadily going up season on season leading to 20+ goals in the last two years you'd think he was coming along nicely but he's managed to hit that this year despite not ever really hitting form or looking that good.

I can't think of (m)any games this year where he's properly threatened the defence consistently, he just semi-regularly manages to get a goal.

If you believe Henry Winter, he's carrying an ankle and shoulder injury which makes me think why the fuck are we even playing him with the reserves available.

[Yevrah]

If you believe Henry Winter, he's carrying an ankle and shoulder injury which makes me think why the fuck are we even playing him with the reserves available.

How in the hell are we doing that again?

The livid is rising.

[Reg]

Shindig It wasn't very good really, it was too high and not close enough to the corner.


On Jordan Henderson's penalty miss: "We had Marcus Rashford on penalties then James Ward-Prowse but both came off. We expected Dominic Calvert-Lewin to take it and I was expecting Hendo to go over to him and let him take it. We will pull rank next time."
Frustrating from all of Southgate, Henderson and Calvert-Lewin there.

Just so silly. We should have a list of takers that is followed by everyone.

[Yevrah]

That we don't have that, with the tournament starting in a week, is quite worrying.

[niko_cee]

Presumably Henderson was 'on them' (god help us) otherwise seriously what the fuck is going on?

They'd better not have one of those don't take it if you won it mantras.

[Lewis]

Marcus Rashford is very good at a few specific things, namely carrying the ball at speed and kicking it hard with a reasonable degree of accuracy, which under a proper manager in a proper system would make him very effective. He has his best games when United beat somebody good with counter-attacking and he is expected to maintain a degree of position discipline, and his best spells have been when Ole Gunnar Binman had his new manager/Project Restart bounce and things just sort of managed themselves, as well as when Jose Mourinho was being accused of stifling him because he wasn't scoring that many.

What he isn't good at is anything to do with playmaking, because his decision-making is poor and he lacks composure. You see this every single week. The longer he has the ball the more likely he is to make the wrong decision, to the point where you can see his brain working on it. Unfortunately, he seems to fancy himself as a bit of a 'wide forward', cutting in and making things happen, rather than more of a traditional wide player who ought to just be running the same lines on repeat with the odd pot-shot thrown in. He also seems to be a bit of a comfort blanket for Ole Gunnar Binman, hence the playing through injuries and being shoehorned into the team on the right where he is genuinely useless.

[Shindig]

BBC just put a quiz up about our Euro 1996 semi-final line-up. That side's implanted in my memory and then Steve Stone always came on at the 70 minute mark. Sol Campbell got 4 minutes against Scotland which stunned me.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I was just getting into football at that time and had Steve Stone as a doyen of the England side and the consummate footballer (I think because he may have scored/played well in that Higuita match which was Game Zero for me watching England).

He was actually just a functional bald man, wasn't he?

[Jimmy Floyd]

On another note, this kneeling/booing thing I find really interesting. It's a real front line in the culture war - one group think they are making a meaningful gesture against racism, one group think they are unfairly being called racist/being lectured to by rich people and are expressing their feeling of injustice about that. Both groups are probably wrong, and neither has any interest whatsoever in engaging with the other's point of view. There is no way out and it looks set to dominate the tournament as far as the England narrative is concerned.

[Baz]

And it achieves absolute zero.

[Don]

I swear some of you gammons would rather England win the tournament than defeat racism as a team. I just want to see the likes of Rashford and Sterling finally not have to face the hardships they face on a daily basis.

[Ian]

I doubt anybody's booing it for any reason other than the obvious, you'd just ignore it otherwise.


neither has any interest whatsoever in engaging with the other's point of view

This goes for about 95% of discourse on any issue currently. And 95% might be a bit generous on my part.

[CJay]

Just watched the England match there. (I’m in training all morning, so may as well stick something on in the background)

England looked good at times going forward. Couple of nice interchanges, mostly featuring Grealish.

It was ridiculously easy for an average Romania to slice England open. They definitely should have grabbed a goal.

DCL did well and probably should have scored either his free shot in the second half or his header.

Henderson taking a penalty is just awful management / captaincy. Firstly, everyone should be clear who is the onfield taker. Secondly, Henderson is quite clearly bad at penalties, so shouldn’t ever be an option.

Good: Grealish (going to be England’s star of the tournament if he starts), Sancho, DCL, and Johnstone (looked very solid apart form flapping at one at the end).

Bad: Mings, Rashford (just doesn’t know what to do with the ball at his feet), none of the subs really did much.

That guy Chiriches is an animal and should have been sent off.

[Baz]

Every time I see Mings I chuckle a bit, remembering that he’s an England international. Dreadful. Nat Phillips is genuinely better.

[Manc]

Ben White has made the cut. Fully deserved after his showing last night.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Guardian has made an amazing page profiling every Euros player (all 600+ of them), there is some fascinating stuff on there if you have some minutes/hours to while away: https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2021/jun/04/euro-2020-complete-guide-to-all-622-players-ratings?CMP=share_btn_tw

There are some quality nuggets floating around. Such as this:


Pickford’s father, Lee, changed his name from the original Pigford to Pickford because he was tired of being called “Piggy”. His grandfather, Barrie, is still a Pigford – though Jordan calls him “Knackers”.

[Lewis]

On another note, this kneeling/booing thing I find really interesting. It's a real front line in the culture war - one group think they are making a meaningful gesture against racism, one group think they are unfairly being called racist/being lectured to by rich people and are expressing their feeling of injustice about that. Both groups are probably wrong, and neither has any interest whatsoever in engaging with the other's point of view. There is no way out and it looks set to dominate the tournament as far as the England narrative is concerned.

Something will have to give at some point, which is liable to mean some sort of petulant official response.

'I love this game!'

[Jimmy Floyd]

The thing with BLM/kneeling is that the opposition to it is a lot more than 'a few fruitcakes' as you would have seen in the 2000s, it's a mainstream view that it's shite, albeit not a media-acceptable view.

[Manc]

The Guardian has made an amazing page profiling every Euros player (all 600+ of them), there is some fascinating stuff on there if you have some minutes/hours to while away: https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2021/jun/04/euro-2020-complete-guide-to-all-622-players-ratings?CMP=share_btn_tw

Lots to like about that Czech side. Denmark to also do bits.

[Waffdon]

Lots to like about that Czech side. Denmark to also do bits.

Yeah, I have Denmark getting to the semis. They’re solid all over, which is all the really matters in international football.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Kasper Dolberg's watch was a fascinating tale I picked up from that page.

[phonics]

On another note, this kneeling/booing thing I find really interesting. It's a real front line in the culture war - one group think they are making a meaningful gesture against racism, one group think they are unfairly being called racist/being lectured to by rich people and are expressing their feeling of injustice about that.

This is such a generous interpretation of the opposition to kneeling.

Let's have a look at the intersection of clubs where the kneeling has been booed and said clubs historic alignments with racist and right wing elements. Oh it's a direct circle.

[Waffdon]

The highlights of that Mexico/USA game yesterday were incredible :D

[Don]

Bahrain 0-3 Iran

Job half done :cool: Manager is still clueless but we have 2 of the top 50 strikers in the world and their class doesn't half tell.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This is such a generous interpretation of the opposition to kneeling.

Let's have a look at the intersection of clubs where the kneeling has been booed and said clubs historic alignments with racist and right wing elements. Oh it's a direct circle.

I think if you live on twitter or in north London, it's hard to appreciate the extent to which BLM and its signifiers are hated. It's the most effective trigger for what you might call 'gammons' that there has ever been. For every person who actually verbally boos it in a ground, there are fifty thinking they don't like the knee but aren't bothered enough to actually boo.

And as the last few elections should tell you, right wing views are not a minority. These are people who genuinely don't believe they are racist (which is the only reality that matters to them), so having rich people telling them not to be racist every time they go to the football just stirs it up more and more. Eventually there will have to be a reckoning where one side either gives up, or goes on strike over it.

[phonics]

Ah well as long as they don’t think they’re racists. It’s okay. They probably don’t think they’re homophobic either but Justin Fashanu didn’t hang himself cause he was weak.

These people are scum and should be treated as such but the people who think they’re better than said scum rely on those people to vote for them so they make up stories about how they’re actually just terrified of marxism. Pathetic.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's what happens when civic society falls apart, and reinforcing the division from the top only makes it worse. Next stop, smash up the BBC. Why? God knows, but millions (not a fringe few) are desperate for it.

[Shindig]

I'm with phonics on this one. If it's not about race, those annoyed with the protests should probably express it better than booing. Are you angry at the black fellas, the idea that they get special treatment over other minorities, are you just miffed at a slight delay to kick-off? Tell us, Middlesbrough.

[Lewis]

Justin Fashanu should be CANCELLED for being a nonce.

[Lewis]

The problem is that it was originally very much aligned with Black Lives Matter, but then people took a look at that lot and it all fell apart because they are mentalists [who had a go at Israel]. That would have been the ideal time to stop doing it, but there would have been too much egg on the collective boat, with all the banners already paid for, so they had to try and claim that ooo actually we just do it as a general anti-racism protest. This is even more stupid because 1) now they need to do it forever (or at least until racism stops); and 2) it turns an anti-discrimination message, which nobody ever booed before, into some weird societal issue where every football fan is to blame for iqbal_mufc calling Ashley Young a monkey on the internet.

[Luca]

Ah well as long as they don’t think they’re racists. It’s okay. They probably don’t think they’re homophobic either but Justin Fashanu didn’t hang himself cause he was weak.

These people are scum and should be treated as such but the people who think they’re better than said scum rely on those people to vote for them so they make up stories about how they’re actually just terrified of marxism. Pathetic.

Treating these people 'like scum' and trying to lecture them / dismiss their concerns out of hand is pretty much what led to Donald Trump in America. This is not the practical way forward, and will just lead to them entrenching their positions. I wish I had an actual solution, but the last ten years of experience suggests that we can at least rule out your approach.

I do think many of their views are patently racist, but treating someone like pond scum is usually not the way to effect a change of heart.

[Spoonsky]

I'm just curious how Jimmy has suddenly become such a privileged interpreter of the great British masses. When are you meeting these people either?

[niko_cee]

The main problem with footballers taking a (the?) knee is that it sort of misses the symbolic significance of the original gesture. It was also something that had very real world implications, which none of this does. Unfortunately the house of cards didn't collapse when Zaha stopped doing it, which would have been the best time.

Who is going to boo it though? Key workers and local Brent residents at Wembley during the Euros? Really?

[Shindig]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-57382945

My main problem with this article is that they only spoke to one dissenting England fan. Cast a wider net than that, BBC.

[niko_cee]

Andrew, who is based in Lincoln

Based in Lincoln? What the fuck is that? Surely anyone who would ever say they are 'based' somewhere wouldn't be based in fucking Lincoln?

[Shindig]

"Andrew" who's name, voice and location has been altered to protect his identity ...

[Lewis]

He probably just said Lincoln because it's the least racist part of racist Lincolnshire.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm just curious how Jimmy has suddenly become such a privileged interpreter of the great British masses. When are you meeting these people either?

Probably by living here for 32 years and variously using my eyes and ears during that time.

[Ian]

Andrew Based In Lincoln is doing some excellent mental gymnastics there.

It's gonna be great that we basically have a home tournament and our fans are going to be booing the team before every game. We should just kick in a load of own goals and bow out early.

[Manc]

Knife the cunts.

[phonics]

Probably by living here for 32 years and variously using my eyes and ears during that time.

You’ve been doing that since Day 1 of posting here so let’s not bring the amount of years you’ve been alive as a resume.

[Don]

Is it just England that will be taking the knee? Need a list of soft shite nations to cheer against.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You’ve been doing that since Day 1 of posting here so let’s not bring the amount of years you’ve been alive as a resume.

I'm accordingly better at it now. You get better at most things, as you get older. Except a few.

[phonics]

I'm accordingly better at it now. You get better at most things, as you get older. Except a few.

The Shite Whisperer™

1402186046180298752

[Jimmy Floyd]

Incredible 2003 energy there. Dr David Kelly, the left sided problem, Ms Dynamite, it all comes flooding back.

[Don]

https://i.ibb.co/PT4NYt1/IMG-20210608-WA0008.jpg

:happycry:

[phonics]

Imagine Sven and Lembit at the clubs. A pair of absolute dogs drowning in busty women.

[Waffdon]

Proper chav

[Jimmy Floyd]

Opik probably has a big dick, but I really can't see what the attraction of Sven was/is to said busty women. Yes, he has money, but not THAT much money. It must be the same Swedish 'thing' that makes Gillian Anderson shag that bloke in Sex Education.

[Raoul Duke]

Foden's hair is horrific. That fringe is a hate crime

[randomlegend]

Grealish's is worse

[Ian]

Foden's is rancid. I'm loving the people comparing it to Gascoigne as if if it's a good omen.

"Fans are hoping he can inspire England in a similar way Gascoigne did all those years ago."

What, by being a lazy fuck and not bothering to run for a tap in in the semi?

I'm not still angry about Euro '96, you are.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The nostalgia about Euro 96 (I mistyped it as Euro 95 at first - I prefer that, like Windows 95) is based on little more than the fact that the nostalgees were younger then.

[SincereTheRebel]

Foden is the closest thing England have had to bald-headed, drinking pints on a Friday bought, Wayne Rooney.

[Ian]

The nostalgia about Euro 96 (I mistyped it as Euro 95 at first - I prefer that, like Windows 95) is based on little more than the fact that the nostalgees were younger then.

The worst thing about watching all the ITV re-runs last summer is definitely it showing up how much I'd misremembered some stuff.

[Lewis]

Foden's hair is horrific. That fringe is a hate crime

Irish criminal profile. Declan Rice grew his hair to leave it behind.

[Yevrah]

As I've maintained since, a lot of Euro 96 was absolutely rancid.

Venables' best attributes were getting the best out of Gazza and realising that Shearer and Sheringham were amazing together. Beyond that he was pretty clueless.

Switzerland was a horrible performance, we could have drawn or worse against Scotland. Spain were robbed and Germany was par for the course. Holland was brilliant.

[Lewis]

Terry Venables' greatest achievement could be the unifying anti-racism gesture (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_uxzNny54A) he produced well ahead of time. But will the FA embrace it?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11889/12327748/stuttgart-expect-to-avoid-sanctions-after-silas-wamangituka-reveals-he-was-playing-under-false-name-and-age

Silas Wamangituka is actually a year older and named Silas Katompa Mvumpa.

[Ian]

As I've maintained since, a lot of Euro 96 was absolutely rancid.

Venables' best attributes were getting the best out of Gazza and realising that Shearer and Sheringham were amazing together. Beyond that he was pretty clueless.

Switzerland was a horrible performance, we could have drawn or worse against Scotland. Spain were robbed and Germany was par for the course. Holland was brilliant.

Gascoigne wasn't even up to much in '96, that one goal aside. He mostly waddled about and flattered to deceive.

Also watching those games last summer I learned to loathe Venables outright refusal to use substitutes or change his line-up at all, a trip down memory lane which watching Solskjaer teams had very much prepared me for.

[Spoonsky]

I've come around to liking Foden, despite his comically shitey face. He's a dad and loves going fishing. Better than TAA stalking pregnant women on instagram. He also reminds me of Insigne emerging from the deep slums of Naples and still looking and acting like it.

And then he's a brilliant player.

[Danny]

Great dad.

https://www.givemesport.com/1599039-phil-foden-icelandic-girl-reveals-all-about-the-night-she-spent-with-man-city-star

[Ian]

"He told me he was in the Guinness Book of Records for being the youngest player to get some trophy. I said 'yes, that's nice'. He said that he was excited for the future."

Blimey, her knickers must have flown off.

[Manc]

Outstanding work given the circumstances.

[Spoonsky]

Great dad.

https://www.givemesport.com/1599039-phil-foden-icelandic-girl-reveals-all-about-the-night-she-spent-with-man-city-star

That article only confirms my impression.

[Waffdon]

1402272427388846081

[Boydy]

Opik probably has a big dick, but I really can't see what the attraction of Sven was/is to said busty women. Yes, he has money, but not THAT much money. It must be the same Swedish 'thing' that makes Gillian Anderson shag that bloke in Sex Education.

He was hot. Sven is not.

[-james-]

Great dad.

https://www.givemesport.com/1599039-phil-foden-icelandic-girl-reveals-all-about-the-night-she-spent-with-man-city-star

Lol he was 18. I can't imagine having a kid at that age but I also can't imagine the notion of responsibility at that age being able to impinge on my opportunity to shag a random Scandinavian when I'm some goblin from Stockport.

[Baz]

If Grealish doesn’t start against Croatia (the bookies don’t think he will), they should just sack Gareth “Gareth Southgate” Southgate before kickoff.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's him and Foden for one spot isn't it? I'd probably go Foden and bring JG off the bench.

[Manc]

Croatia are rancid. Easy victory iregardless of who starts.

[Ian]

Rancid, you say? Easy victory?

In that case I look forward to the Kramaric hat-trick.

[niko_cee]

It's him and Foden for one spot isn't it? I'd probably go Foden and bring JG off the bench.

It should be both, although I suppose it sort of makes sense to start with your pace merchants as they are going to be fuck-all use off the bench.

Can we not go something like:



Kane
Grealish Sancho

Foden Mount

Rice

Probably some glaring omissions there. Are we obliged to start Rashford?

[Ian]

We shouldn't be.

I'd say there's next to zero chance Waistcoat tries to fit Mount, Foden and Grealish into the same team.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It should be both, although I suppose it sort of makes sense to start with your pace merchants as they are going to be fuck-all use off the bench.

Can we not go something like:



Kane
Grealish Sancho

Foden Mount

Rice

Probably some glaring omissions there. Are we obliged to start Rashford?

Thinking seems to be he will go with Raheem in that left hand spot.

[Waffdon]

Foden and Mount in a midfield 3 would get walked over.

It’ll be Phillips and Rice with Sterling/Rashford, Mount and Foden ahead

[niko_cee]

Ah yeah, Phillips, don't mind him in. Still think against the plodders (group games) we'd be better with the technically better players in attacking roles, Rashford et al can come into their own if we have to play on the break against better sides.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In more important news, Boris Johnson has just won the Euros, by wishing luck to 'Scotland, England, and any other home nations that may be competing'.

[niko_cee]

Back page of The Telegraph is the stuff of absolute nightmares.

[Don]

BBC1 showed a 45 minute BLM party broadcast based around the euro anthem being done by 2 yoots who think the England flag is an indicator of racism followed by another 45 minute programme on racism in football which could well have been a panorama with its powerful use of chilling background music and short, sharp interviews. Early rumours they're showing 12 Years a Slave prior to England-Croatia to get the vibes going.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3eEc-GWUAErY6v?format=jpg&name=large

Joe Root seems to agree, or perhaps he has just noticed his shorts.

[Yevrah]

Do we just like being shit? Is that it?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not sure what would happen to the national psyche if England became very good for a sustained period. The fact that I can't even imagine it happening says a lot.

[Don]

A Croatia victory followed by an announcement of delays to freedom day before the alcohol has even exited the sunburnt bladders of the nation :drool:

[Baz]

http://streamable.com/hg1aon

[Ian]

I'm not sure what would happen to the national psyche if England became very good for a sustained period. The fact that I can't even imagine it happening says a lot.

I expect we'd just become even more insufferable.

Also if we have an centre-halves who end up not being selected because Shaw is picked ahead of them they probably ought to just retire now.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Although the post-2012 Euros format is stupid, I have to hand it to the Copa America for somehow managing to be even worse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Copa_Am%C3%A9rica

That is a lot of faffing around to knock out Bolivia and Venezuela. Supposedly televised on the BBC though, it could almost be 24 hour football.

[Reg]

Personally, on Sunday I am watching England v Croatia at 2pm, Austria v North Macedonia at 5pm, multi-screening the La Liga 2 Play-Off Final beside Holland v Ukraine at 8pm, grabbing an espresso then watching Brazil v Venezuela at 10pm before calling it a night at 3am after Colombia v Ecuador.

[Manc]

I hear Ian is preparing the COPA thread as we speak.

[Don]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3fps9vVkAsLXvU?format=jpg&name=large

He strikes me as a proper wrongun.

[Manc]

Definitely not Irish.

[Ian]

I hear Ian is preparing the COPA thread as we speak.

One thread per group and a separate "Where do they go from here?" thread for each of the fifth-placed teams.

[Spoonsky]

Although the post-2012 Euros format is stupid, I have to hand it to the Copa America for somehow managing to be even worse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Copa_Am%C3%A9rica

That is a lot of faffing around to knock out Bolivia and Venezuela. Supposedly televised on the BBC though, it could almost be 24 hour football.

Also love that they moved it out of Colombia and Argentina for COVID reasons, only to move it to Brazil. :cab:

[Jimmy Floyd]

That 'north' and 'south' draw is an absolute Brazil fix as well.

[Ian]

Well, whatever opinions I had about teams taking the knee before matches I see Darren Grimes applauding Scotland for not doing it so I'm now firmly of the opinion we should do it for five minutes per match. Maybe before the second half too.

[Shindig]

Take the knee every time you set a wall up for a free kick.

[Baz]

Fantasy Football anyone?

https://gaming.uefa.com/en/uefaeuro2020fantasyfootball/leagues/30BRTA7Z01/00540068006500200054006800690072006400200048006100 6C0066/Baz

Or get get the app (Android (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.uefa.euro2016&hl=en_GB&gl=US) | Apple (https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/uefa-fantasy-predictor-games/id1107602457)) create your Euro 2020 Fantasy Football team and join the league using the code 30BRTA7Z01

Can some people join this please?

[Manc]

Knob off.

[Waffdon]

Knob off.

Is this an actual saying?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I refuse to click links from you Baz and I imagine the rest of the board is probably at that stage now.

[Ian]

To be fair I just don't like fantasy football, it doesn't have anything to do with a Baz link in this case.

[-james-]

https://i.imgur.com/xVwVCYd.png

80% chance of getting out of the group if you either play for three draws, or win your first game and then don't bother attempting to score after that. Fantastic.

[Reg]

https://i.imgur.com/xVwVCYd.png

80% chance of getting out of the group if you either play for three draws, or win your first game and then don't bother attempting to score after that. Fantastic.
:D
Terrific format.

Where's the tension and/or fun to be found then?

Group F (death) should be good regardless. I'm looking forward to France v Germany on Tuesday.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've thought for a while that if they're going to insist on 24 then they might just as well have 32.

[Shindig]

We should do, really. But then it's not that far off the Nations League.

[CJay]

Really looking forward to tonight. Cracking fixture to start the tournament with.

Anyone caught any of the ‘banter’ on those Match of the Day top 10 shows between Micah Richards and Shearer-Lineker? Honestly wanted to be swallowed up by my sofa last night during the top goals episode.

[Serj]

Can some people join this please?

I've joined. No idea what I'm doing, which will hopefully be less of a problem during the Euros than my FPL season.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This being opening day of a tournament, it was only right that I revisit the wikipedia page of Paul the Octopus. He really was a don.


Paul correctly predicted the outcome of the semi-final, by choosing the food in the box marked with the Spanish flag. German supporters drew hope from his incorrect choice for the Germany versus Spain match in the UEFA Euro 2008 but were disappointed. The prediction led to German fans calling for Paul to be eaten. In response, the Spanish Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero offered to send Paul official state protection, and the Industry Minister Miguel Sebastian called for Paul to be given safe haven in Spain.

Paul's notoriety attracted criticism from the President of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who accused him of being a symbol of Western decadence and decay.

Proper seethe there from the Islamic Republic, I love it.

[Spoonsky]

inb4

https://i.imgur.com/foGFdVB.png

That would be quite fun, I think.

[Spoonsky]

Apart from fucking France winning it. Can't be having that, no matter how good they are.

[Ian]

Also I think Portugal have been involved in perhaps four fun matches in the last decade.