F1 2020 - Corona Virus Edition

[Disco]

I know this is pretty obvious but Alex Brundle sounds so much like his dad Martin. Slightly higher pitched, but they way he says things, his cadence, his observations... It's very weird.


Alex Brundle (son of Martin) is on comms for the F3 races and his voice is so weirdly similar.


It is odd, and every way I try to explain it sounds dumb but he is just like his dad just with younger references (see). I think he's been the best co-commentator they've had this season, just ahead of the ex-Williams guy who spends half the session berates Dan Ticktum which I am 100% behind.

[Pleb]

What a start.

[Gray Fox]

A shame as the 2 Mercs will now drive off with it, but at least they should be the right way around for some battling.

[Pleb]

Looked like Ocon's wing is fucked.

Mad Max had no power so he would of not made lap 1 anyway.

[Pleb]

Well that escalated quickly.

[Gray Fox]

This is carnage. What the fuck was that?

[Pleb]

Fucking hell everyone slammed on the brakes after that restart.

[Serj]

It's a bit of a shit situation for the leader, as in: if you accelerate too early, there's a longer phase of slipstream for the others on the long straight. But this slowing down was a bit extreme. Wurz on Austrian TV is not very happy with Bottas.

[Gray Fox]

Bottas holding it right to the start/finish line caused that. He took it right to the limit, but it was still legal. He should be doing that for his race, but others suffer.

Everyone else behind them was unsighted by everyone spreading across the track. One idiot(Magnussen?) decided to plough through everyone and that was that.

[Disco]

You can't overtake until the line though surely, so what the fuck were the idiots at the back doing?

[SincereTheRebel]

I actually burst out laughing at that

[Pleb]

The green light being delayed didn't help either.

[Gray Fox]

The green light being delayed didn't help either.

There is no real green light at the end of a safety car. The lead car(Bottas) becomes the safety car from the final corner up to the start/finish line. Often you'll see them bolt much earlier, but it's to his tactical advantage to wait until the last possible moment.

[Disco]

Yeah, Bottas did nothing wrong it was whoever in the midfield tried to anticipate the leader.

[Gray Fox]

Ocon retiring too.

Russell into the points and only 13 runners remain.

[Shindig]

G'wan, lad. Standing start probably knacks him.

[Disco]

Only Ferrari power behind him too, he stands a chance.

[Shindig]

Russell could have LeClerc near the end of this race.

[Gray Fox]

Russell holding off Vettel on the slower compound too :p

[Gray Fox]

Well then. Bottas will be seething later.

[Shindig]

Oh, tyre failures. Great. Red Flag.

[Gray Fox]

One last chance for Bottas then. Hard luck on George though.

[Gray Fox]

All of this just so Ferrari can score some points.

[Giggles]

It all sounded very exciting reading down through this and then I turn it on and it's Mercedes 1 and 2.

[Shindig]

I can't believe this is Albon's first podium.

[SincereTheRebel]

I didn't know they give an extra point for the fastest lap. Add another point for most overtakes too

[7om]

Gutted for George but the writing was on the wall for the last grid restart. The Williams doesn't do well off the line.

[phonics]

1305203979735969793

F1 has doping tests? Why?

[Shindig]

PED's. It's a very physical sport.

[phonics]

From which you have at least one week to recover and you’d be out of cycle during the season so it wouldn’t show up at race day anyway.

[Shindig]

And? Still didn't stop MotoGP rider Andrea Iannone being banned this season for steroids.

[Lewis]

It would surely be more about things to get you through the race physically and mentally (focus, heart rate, etc.) than conventional recovery doping. Some of those monumental Le Mans shifts in the Good Old Days were quite clearly meth-powered, and it was absolutely rife in cycling before proper doping came along.

[Disco]

There's a list of banned substances just like every other sport, I assume they test for those.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans

Is this a Toyota walkover, or do those other LMP1 outfits have a chance? I see Rebellion won the 6 hours of Austin a while back amid a sea of Toyota wins in the other races, but I'm not sure if that means anything.

[Shindig]

If Juan Pablo gets a class win, I'm counting that as a Triple Crown.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I doubt it's going to win, but this Rebellion LMP1 is a beauty of a thing, even in the hands of Bruno Senna.

[Shindig]

Watching Montoya in the DragonSpeed as we speak.

Bothed pit entry. Damn it, Juan. :(

Just worked his way past Tatiana Calderon. Come out of a slow zone, she let traffic past and Juan floored it. :D

[Shindig]

Just a couple of hours left. Here's your F1 driver update:

Nakajima, Hartley and Buemi are leading the thing with their Toyota that always wins. 5 laps up on the field.
Bruno Senna is still in second.
Kamui Kobiyashi is fourth in the other Toya that always wins.
Paul di Resta leads LMP2 in 5th.
Followed by 'Anth' Davidson.
Jean-Eric Vergne is next on the list in 7th.
Giedo van der Garde is in 20th.
Sebastian Bourdais is 25th.
Jan Magnussen is 32nd.[/b]
Gianmaria Bruni follows him[/b]
Giancarlo Fisichella is running 41st.
Will Stevens is last of the runners in 50th.

Which means ....

Juan Pablo Montoya is out. Maybe next year. :(

[niko_cee]

That was quite an entertaining qualifying session for about 10 minutes yesterday.

I commented to someone whilst watching it that you'd think Hamilton would come straight back out in Q2 to set a time when the track was clear, in case anything should happen to scupper a late run. Why are formula 1 strategy bods so painfully over-clever? Shame more of the drivers didn't have Gasly's nous to back the pack up in the pit lane and make another qualifying run impossible. I was quite looking forward to seeing some mug cars driving round two abreast in roadblock formation.

[7om]

I found all that a bit cringeworthy. Crofty and Karun were practically giddy at the thought of Hamilton not getting through.

He was always gonna make it through, the guy even had time to stop at the last turn to create a gap before the hot lap.

I'm just praying for Max to start well and get a toe all the way down the straight.

[Disco]

That is some gap to the rest of the field.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hamilton's done his tyres whinge a full 24 hours before the race this week. Living in all their heads.

[Disco]

They're all frothing again because he might get a penalty, it's like there's no-one else on the grid.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He should 100% get a penalty, looked a dangerous place to stop.

[Disco]

Verstappen perfectly demonstrated the quickest way through turn 2.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The general standard of driving on that first half-lap was atrocious.

[Shindig]

I'm used to 2pm starts for races. Almost missed this.

[Pleb]

Legit thought it was a 2pm start.

Who hit who?

[Shindig]

Massive BEE!

[7om]

Tells you a lot about this track when we have to watch Russell, Albon and Norris battle for 16th because they're mates in real life.

Also, lol at Bottas' telling the haters to fuck themselves over the radio.

[John Arne]

Tells you a lot about this track when we have to watch Russell, Albon and Norris battle for 16th because they're mates in real life.

Also, lol at Bottas' telling the haters to fuck themselves over the radio.

Bottas has a bit of form for that. Gets thoroughly outraced by his teammate for 10 races, then finally get a win and starts getting proper chippy on the radio.

[Shindig]

To be fair, if you took Lewis off the grid, he'd be taking the title.

[Gray Fox]

He's still 44 points behind with 7 races left(unless we're due more adding?). Assuming it's a fastest lap and win 1-2 in Bottas' favour every time, he needs to win all but 1 race.

We're nearly at the snookers required stage. As soon as we hit that, I reckon Mercedes will reel Bottas in.

[Shindig]

If Lewis misses a race from his penalty points, it'll get tasty.

[Giggles]

No it won’t.

[Shindig]

Okay, if he misses a race from penalty points and gets Covid.

[Giggles]

Coulthard nearly crying about it is all kinds of lol. All for a bit of partisan but he’s embarrassing himself.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It was a nailed on penalty, I'm a massive Hamilton slurper but you can't stop the car in a full throttle area of track and do practice starts, it's dangerous as hell.

[7om]

Apparently he’s had the super license points rescinded now.

[John Arne]

Apparently he’s had the super license points rescinded now.

I'm usually all for drivers taking responsibility, but on this occasion, he clearly asked his team twice whether he could do it, and they said yes - so the penalty should lie with the team, not the driver. Then again, the fact that you had to ask twice kinda tells you that perhaps you aren't doing the right thing.

[Disco]

This is the second time this season I've been surprised by how poorly prepared the best driver and team on the grid are. Track specific variations are something you would expect to be covered at the start of each event. The different pitlane light position in Monza, where the designated practice start area is at each track, safety car line position etc, you'd think that would be in briefing 1 on Thursday or covered in a track walk or something.

[niko_cee]

Wasn't the pit lane/start thing more that they thought he might go 20 yards further down to where there was less rubber and he actually drove off about 3 miles further and by the time they were all thinking "erm, Lewis mate . . ." it was too late?

[Disco]

Complicated by the fact that no-one on the pitwall/garage can see where he is at that point. Aside from that you can't just stop in the pitlane, even if he wasn't on the normal line you take out of the pits. Penalty was deserved but the licence points were a bit mad, especially when other transgressions aren't even noted coughLeclerctwicenowcough.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I have never lived through an era of F1 when the authorities weren't trying to bring back the runaway leader a bit.

[Shindig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3UpBKXMRto

Man, imagine if they just kept the 90s electronic madness going. Unrestrained, mad science.

[7om]

They're not out to get him though, are they? He did something wrong so he got done. Lewis is a very gracious winner but fucking hell is he a cry baby when something goes against him.

[Pepe]

As much as I love aerodynamics, I do wish that the last few decades were not all spent focusing on them.

With that said, CVTs lead to shit sounding cars, so I am against them.

[Disco]

There's a middle ground to be had but the problem has always been that the teams have far more money and expertise than the people making the rules. They've already had to revise the new aero regs for next season because the 15-20% reduction they were aiming for is more like 5% just via in-season development.

[Shindig]

Newey always talked in in his book about getting the lost downforce back and it usually took a few months, at best. It's such a dumb folly.

[Shindig]

And Honda's out. Again. Would Red Bull go Mercedes next year?

[Jimmy Floyd]

No chance they would go customer Merc, surely. After Christian Horner burns every Japanese-made item he can find in his massive, massive house, he will have to go cap in hand back to Cyril, and pay a bajillion dollars for the privilege.

Either that or they'll have to start building their own.

[phonics]

Why would an engine maker stop making engines out of interest?

[Foe]

its political correctness gone mad!

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why would an engine maker stop making engines out of interest?

Probably upstairs deciding they're not seeing a RoI.

[Disco]

It's pretty bad for the sport (and Yuki Tsunoda in particular) but fucking lol at the same time.

Max to Mercedes rumours by the bucket load in 3-2-1.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's awful for the sport.

I wonder if this will trigger the Reichskomissariat trying to phase out Hamilton. Lewis/Max in the same team would be popcorn central but the former surely wouldn't have it.

[Disco]

You'd think not. If they want him (and he'd be the perfect Hamilton replacement) then I think he'll have another couple of years throwing his toys out of the pram before the way is clear.

[7om]

Are there any plans for Aston Martin to go full works team and make engines?

I just can't see Horner wanting to go back to Renault.

[Disco]

It's hard to see anyone starting a new programme under the current regs (which run mostly the same up to 2026) and even harder to see any top team wanting to get in on the ground floor as it were. The only caveat to that would be the continued unemployment of Andy Cowell (the guy who ran Mercedes engine department throughout the hybrid era) who may be able to give someone a head start. There have been rumours that AM would try to become a full factory team but nothing concrete as yet.

Which leaves us with the delicious prospect of Christian Horner having to crawl, chapeau in hand, back to Renault (or Alpeeeeeeen) to make what would probably be a very expensive deal to take their engines again. I don't know the rules around engine supply other than the one supplying the least is obliged to supply a team who have no engine deal, I wonder if they're precluded from naming their price.

[phonics]

Lol if Horner would take the awful Ferrari engine just to avoid looking like a knob.

[Disco]

Knob > No Job, which is what should happen if he tried to make that deal.

[Shindig]

Are there any plans for Aston Martin to go full works team and make engines?

https://racer.com/2020/02/11/racing-point-affirms-aston-martin-works-team-status-for-2021/


Racing Point team principal Otmar Szafnauer insists the team’s impending rebranding as Aston Martin will represent a transition into a fully-fledged works team for the auto maker.

Not that I hold much to that. Turbo V6's must cost a packet to develop. Especially if you're going to have a handful to last you all season. I cannot see Dietrich putting money down for a Red Bull effort. I can't see anyone entering that market, to be honest. Not unless they're confident they can sell them to the other constructors.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I wonder if they're precluded from naming their price.

Apparently they are.

You'd have to be an absolute moron to become a Ferrari engine customer at this point. They'll have to go to Renault and back themselves to design a better chassis (something which relies entirely on keeping Adrian Newey a) at the team, and b) highly motivated).

[7om]

To be fair to Ferrari though, they are going to sort the engine out eventually. Theyve just got to work around the power lost from cheating.

I wouldn't rule out buying Ferrari engines in 2022.

[phonics]

Apparently they are.

You'd have to be an absolute moron to become a Ferrari engine customer at this point. They'll have to go to Renault and back themselves to design a better chassis (something which relies entirely on keeping Adrian Newey a) at the team, and b) highly motivated).

To be honest Renault shouldn't even be involved. If you make the engine and finish behind a team that use your power unit you should have to give it to them for free in exchange for info on how not to be a complete mediocrity.


Theyve just got to work around the power lost from cheating.


I can't think of a sentence that sums up Ferrari F1 better than this.

[Jimmy Floyd]

To be fair to Ferrari though, they are going to sort the engine out eventually. Theyve just got to work around the power lost from cheating.

I wouldn't rule out buying Ferrari engines in 2022.

Try 2024, and even then.

[Disco]

Red Bull apparently looking into buying the existing Honda engine lock stock and barrell and taking on the construction and development themselves. They worked pretty closely with Ilmor in the Renault days and Mugen is just down the road so they've plenty of options for re-badging it.

[Disco]

Lance Stroll not taking part in FP3, Nico Hulkenburg must have just spit his croissant across the kitchen.

[Clunge]

Hulk has arrived :beer:.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'd like to think that rather than actually 'doing TV work', the Hulk just turns up to every race with a pair of headphones on, an RTL shirt he found on ebay, and a racing suit in his holdall. Oh, hey, Nico, working for German TV are we? No, no need for a paddock pass, walk right in mate. Heh, yeah, you never know, eh?

[Shindig]

And then someone sounds the Hulkensignal and he runs off to the nearest portacabin to change.

[Disco]

You don't even need to make stuff up, he drove to the track from Cologne in a Porsche he bought off Keke Rosberg.

[Shindig]

Bottas looked pretty good there.

[Disco]

Hamilton never uses the little plinth they provide for helmet stuff, he scoots off into the garage and I'd love to know why.

[Gray Fox]

I forgot this was on due to no FP during the week. Does baby Stroll have The Virus?

[Disco]

An 'illness' is all they've said.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hang on, are there fans at this? Bloody Germany.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'd forgotten how much I despise this GP layout, it's like a touring car track. Leclerc is Trulli-training the field like 2.5 seconds a lap.

[Disco]

Good job Vettel has that contract confirmed, he's looked gopping all weekend.

[Shindig]

If they did something to the opening of the lap, I'd be alright with it. The first couple of corners just feel like agony.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Kimi really needs to be put out to pasture, he's gone full Arnoux roadcone now.

[Gray Fox]

Assuming Hamilton finishes, that should be that.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This Albon drive is one of the worst I've seen (Vettel aside, maybe) in a top team for ages.

[Disco]

Hulkenberg 9th :cool:

[Gray Fox]

This Albon drive is one of the worst I've seen (Vettel aside, maybe) in a top team for ages.

I can't believe he isn't at the least, under threat.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hulk, on the other hand, is donning it. I wish there were more odd-race substitute drives like in the mid 90s, it's great fun.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Like fuck do you need a full safety car for that. Scripted load of bollocks.

[Gray Fox]

'mon the Hulk.

[Disco]

They ran a NASCAR Xfinity race in the wet at the Charlotte 'Roval' this weekend and it was fucking mental. More rain than F1 would ever run in, stock cars running through inches of standing water basically in the dark, and on a track that flummoxes most of them in the dry.

[Shindig]

I thought NASCAR didn't run in the wet? Or is that strictly on Ovals?

[Disco]

Xfinity is the second tier which they will run in the wet at road courses. Cup series will run practice sessions at wet road courses but until now never races, and the last wet running of any sort was twenty years ago. Until yesterday when they flew in wet weather tires so they could start the race in the wet. Stock cars on a drying track was interesting, especially this season where there are no practice or qualifying sessions.

[Shindig]

That sounds class. The whole idea of lanes on an banked oval goes out the window if there's one dry line, presumably.

[Disco]

Yes, but then also no because they tried anyway. Large bits of the track are also painted and the drainage system appeared to be hoping it never rained very much. Given the main circuit is a giant asphalt bowl the infield was ankle deep in water at times.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Nascar trying to race in the wet would be fairly analogous to the brain melting incidents that would occur if NFL tried to play without helmets and padding, or if baseball fielders ditched the gloves. We're made of sterner stuff over here.

[Gray Fox]

Grosjean and Magnussen both out of Haas for next year.

[Shindig]

Perez and the Hulk, please.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Even though K-Mag is a complete bastard I do like him, hope he gets another gig but I doubt it. Can see him donning Le Mans in the future.

Imagine they will take Perez and maybe one of the Ferrari kids.

[Jimmy Floyd]

A quick glance at social media indicates that I'm wrong and it'll be the Russian kid with the money. Shame, don't believe he's any good.

[Disco]

Mazepin will be one, Perez likely the other. Tells you what Gene Haas is mostly concerned with.

Magnussen in sports cars would be amusing, his approach to overtaking not exactly the best fit. Touring cars maybe, or Formula E where there is no overtaking so it doesn't matter.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I am still, deep down, a 'Perez is shit' truther. He is almost always wank in close racing situations. Speaking of good fits for sports car racing, the fact that 'Checo' has been able to string out a successful career based on nothing much beyond making his tyres last tells me that Carlos Slim should be chucking all his dirty drug money at Le Mans instead of F1.

Yes, K-Mag in Australian V8s is the dream. He'll instead do DTM and be shite.

[Disco]

Decidedly midfield with a boat load of money behind him has always been my opinion. Kobayashi was the better of the two when they first arrived at Sauber.

I see Russell might be struggling to keep his seat for next year, some of those white car teams must be seriously strapped for cash.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Surely Toto could cough up to keep him there. They can't let a talent like Russell not be in F1.

[Disco]

He could, but the question becomes will he fork over as much as some oligarch who wants their man in the seat?

[7om]

It’d be a real shame if Russell had to take the Ocon route and sit out for a year. Tells us everything we need to know about the financial state of the teams if people like Latifi can get on the grid and genuinely talented drivers can’t.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There could (will) be three young sons of billionaires on the grid next year, out of the supposed top 20 drivers in motorsport, and all three of them are basically shit. For all we say that there have always been pay drivers, there hasn't always been that sort of pay driver, especially not in such a closed grid era.

It really will be down to Max/Leclerc/Norris and hopefully Russell to carry the next decade or so because I'm not sure too many others with world championship talent are going to get a chance. Leclerc has looked sublime to me this season in a total tractor of a car.

Speaking of sublime, I am bang up for this Portugal race. Probably my favourite of all circuits to drive on a sim, just hope it stands up to the silly F1 cars - it's not really a big braking zone modern day track, but it is a beauty in every other respect. The blind apex for turn (11? Portimao corner) at the top of the hill is going to catch a few out I think.

[Shindig]

I think Stroll deserves more credit. Latifi shows no promise.

[Disco]

Stroll is ok but I would expect anyone afforded the opportunities he's had to be at about the same level. As for other prospects I think we'll see Mick Schumacher in a seat next year and he (along with Zhou and Illot) was the pick of the F2 grid. He's maybe not on the level of Leclerc/Norris etc but massively improved over the last two seasons and raced really well this year.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Kimi and Alonso will have raced against both the Schumacher and Verstappen father/son duos. I wonder if Kimi ever did rallying against Carlos Sainz sr. Probably not.

[John Arne]

I can't be the only one that thinks that Norris and Albon aren't actually that good. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see them sticking around too long.

Russell is quality.

[thommo]

I think Norris is very impressive and consistently puts in good drives. Albon is a bit more raw and maybe a little too rash, but I definitely think he has a career at a lower ranked team than Red Bull.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Norris is race winner material 100%. Albon, not sure, he's fast but has issues. That thing about why are they racing me so hard was a bit of a red flag.

Russell I think is world champ material.

[Disco]

Of the group Albon is likely to be binned first but I maintain that he's been dealt a shitty hand by having to learn F1 in a horrible car against one of the best around. Norris is gold, that should be plainly obvious by now.

[Disco]

Apropos of nothing (other than I was listening to it), F1 really has made The Chain by Fleetwood Mac a very odd song. The middle section is, at least for me, inextricably linked to the titles/intro to Grand Prix on the BBC. So much so that I find it impossible to hear it as part of a longer piece, at a certain point Fleetwood Mac stops and F1 starts. I expect to see Mansell/Senna inches apart or the bit where there should be a Ferrari with sparks flying out the back, then there's the part where Murray Walker is supposed to start talking and it goes back to being Fleetwood Mac again.

[phonics]

I'm glad people are coming round to my view on Albon's fraud status.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think it's an odd song to begin with. I can't think of another prominent track that is happily plodding along as a campfire singalong and then suddenly stops and restarts for a thunderous bass solo two thirds of the way in.

Like most of the classic BBC Sport themes, though, they absolutely nailed the choice for F1. The tension and mechanical rhythm of the bass hook and then the soaring guitar on top evokes the sport perfectly.

[niko_cee]

In the F1 music stakes Losing My Favourite Game is always intrinsically linked to the 1998 championship for me, closing music for the Japan GP back when you could still have some (small modicum of) empathy for Schumacher and maybe even Ferrari.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I literally never had any empathy for Schumacher whatsoever, and Ferrari lost me (after the somewhat romantic Alesi/Berger days with the sexy V12) as soon as they hired him.

As someone who first followed the sport mid 94 and whose cultural milieu made me an automatic Damon Hill fanboy, there was no way I could ever see Schumacher as anything but evil incarnate, and boy did he back me up on that. After Damon there was Mika, after Mika there were the dark years forlornly hoping that Kimi and JPM were going to get off their arses and do something, and then one had to grudgingly thank Alonso for ending the streak before Lewis came along - life as a Hamilton backer has been pretty great.

I've always wondered who I would have backed out of Prost and Senna, had I been around for it. I probably would have been Nigel Mansell till I die and hated both of them.

[Disco]

I can confirm (as someone who started watching in 86) that both Prost and Senna were the enemy. Mclaren too, my lingering distrust lasted until at least 1998.

[Disco]

I think it's an odd song to begin with. I can't think of another prominent track that is happily plodding along as a campfire singalong and then suddenly stops and restarts for a thunderous bass solo two thirds of the way in.

Like most of the classic BBC Sport themes, though, they absolutely nailed the choice for F1. The tension and mechanical rhythm of the bass hook and then the soaring guitar on top evokes the sport perfectly.

They didn't get much wrong did they. Snooker, Skiing, F1, MOTD, Cricket, Grandstand all great. Tennis is a bit crap but ultimately fitting, even the Golf is an inexplicably banging prog/synth number. Darts and Horse Racing (Horse of the Year not included) are the only ones to rather let the side down.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You see, I came in at a point when McLaren had Martin Brundle and some other plebs in the car (Jan Magnussen! Fat Nigel Mansell! Philippe Alliot!) and didn't see my first McLaren win for fully 4 seasons, so I've always been a sympathiser for that reason. Plus Mika seemed like a cool dude compared to Schumacher and his fucking chin of doom. Mika also had a habit of needlessly binning it three times a season, which made him human and an attractive watch up against the superhuman.

I'm gutted not to have been around for Silverstone '87, that seemed like the mountain top of the whole thing.

[Shindig]

Imola 94 was my first race so I was a Damon fan right from the off. I don't think I started hating on Schumi until Adelaide, mind. I don't recall being miffed at Benetton for their bullshit. I warmed to him retrospectively, like how I did with Valentino Rossi.

On Sainz vs Raikonnen, it never happened. :( What annoys me is Carlos retired from the WRC on a podium finish, meaning he was definitely still good enough. Hell, he's smashed the Dakar enough. Evergreen motherfucker. :cool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Imola 94 was your first race? Jesus, that's bleak.

I definitely have a memory of Schumacher being black flagged at Silverstone so I must have been watching by then. I didn't see Imola, but I remember my dad telling me Ratzenberger had been killed (but don't remember anything about Senna).

[phonics]

They didn't get much wrong did they. Snooker, Skiing, F1, MOTD, Cricket, Grandstand all great. Tennis is a bit crap but ultimately fitting, even the Golf is an inexplicably banging prog/synth number. Darts and Horse Racing (Horse of the Year not included) are the only ones to rather let the side down.

Being able to choose from any song in existence due to the BBC licensing deal helps but yeah they do get it right most of the time.

[niko_cee]

I sort of liked Schumacher back in his comedy villain days at Bennetton, but, I was young then and invariably wrong about most things (much like my support for Hulk Hogan against the Undertaker in [the original?] Survivor Series). My dad was always a staunch Undertaker man/Schumacher-hater, so maybe there was some of that too.

[Giggles]

They didn't get much wrong did they. Snooker, Skiing, F1, MOTD, Cricket, Grandstand all great. Tennis is a bit crap but ultimately fitting, even the Golf is an inexplicably banging prog/synth number. Darts and Horse Racing (Horse of the Year not included) are the only ones to rather let the side down.

Grandstand :drool:

[Disco]

You see, I came in at a point when McLaren had Martin Brundle and some other plebs in the car (Jan Magnussen! Fat Nigel Mansell! Philippe Alliot!) and didn't see my first McLaren win for fully 4 seasons, so I've always been a sympathiser for that reason. Plus Mika seemed like a cool dude compared to Schumacher and his fucking chin of doom. Mika also had a habit of needlessly binning it three times a season, which made him human and an attractive watch up against the superhuman.

I'm gutted not to have been around for Silverstone '87, that seemed like the mountain top of the whole thing.

I was 6 so the overtake on Piquet was immediately the greatest pass ever but winning is everything at that age so it wasn't until 1992 that I felt like we got redemption.

[Jimmy Floyd]

And when he finally did win (surely he should have pissed it in '91 as well) it was a bit like Liverpool's win last year, so crushing as to be a bit of an anticlimax. It would have been a complete travesty if he had never won it, though.

Suzuka 98 and Brazil 08 were the twin pinnacles for my fandom, Ferrari getting fucked over on both occasions. Jerez 97 also but that had the mild conflict of Jacques Villeneuve being the beneficiary.

[Shindig]

Imola 94 was your first race? Jesus, that's bleak.

I definitely have a memory of Schumacher being black flagged at Silverstone so I must have been watching by then. I didn't see Imola, but I remember my dad telling me Ratzenberger had been killed (but don't remember anything about Senna).

I get a lot of TV memories from 1994. I guess seeing the West's garden being dug up prepared me for it.

[Disco]

92 was great, I didn't care one bit that it was a no contest. After the near misses, Mclaren domination, and various broken Ferraris it was like a sweet release.

Schumacher was instantly the antagonist after punting our Damon in Adelaide but it wasn't until Jerez 97 that he ascended to full cunt status.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Schumacher's most heroic year by far was '96, dragging that absolute turnip to three or four wins and also instantly rallying the team around him (much like Hamilton in '13) when others would have minced about and cried off.

[Disco]

The Ferrari move definitely put him in scrappy underdog territory for a little while there, which I suppose Benetton qualified for as well. Plus I was old enough to recognise his ability in a shit car and Ferrari were welcome (if occasional) visitors to the podium rather than the pompous knobs they turned into.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Next question - why is everyone calling Nikita Mazepin 'Mazepan'? He doesn't run a patisserie.

[Disco]

This is going well.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I could watch cars go around this track all day, it's just magnificent. Here's hoping they somehow find a way of keeping it on the calendar.

[John Arne]

Russell now 33-0 in qualifying against his teammates in his F1 career.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Proper textbook Hamilton alpha-ing there, loved it.

[Disco]

+1 for coming here every year, good argument for a winter season too.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I could honestly make love to this circuit. It's like an even better Interlagos.

Looked like a straight punt by Verstappen on Perez but he seems to have got away with it.

[Disco]

Lap one, he'll get away with it.

[John Arne]

It would be nice if the directors showed us some of the lap 1 overtakes. Kimi made up something like 10 places. Show us, divs.

[Gray Fox]

You'd think Stroll jr would be better than this by now.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That was a bizarre move, there is absolutely no future around the outside of there.

This is a great race, if these early-stopping chumps try to get their yellow tyres through 40+ laps it will be carnage.

[Gray Fox]

Lewis is absolutely taking the piss here.

[John Arne]

The onboards are so good. Get rid of Singapore, and keep Portimao.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Cards on the table - I reckon it's better than 18 of the circuits on the original calendar, I'd only have Spa and Suzuka above it.

[Gray Fox]

Yeah we need that track back next year.

[Disco]

1320354350120734723

[thommo]

Absolutely brilliant track. If they do come back, they could shorten the DRS by about 150-200m as it seemed to make up about 7 tenths, and was a little overpowered.

The best thing about the circuit is that it really did allow for side-by-side racing for a lot of the corners - some of the battles in the midfield were brilliant.

[John Arne]

https://gyazo.com/abd6b7d22e0abd5efb83777a21d1e6a6.jpeg

[Pepe]

Hamilton's teammates all quality drivers. Meanwhile, look at Schumacher's list. :harold:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Schumacher forcefully engineered the teams around him and had restrictions written into the second drivers' contracts etc, which Hamilton never did. Schumacher was a great driver but Hamilton is better and (since 2013) less flawed.

That sort of list always reminds me of Senna being shit scared of having Derek Warwick as a team mate for 1986 and insisting they ran Johnny Dumfries alongside him.

[Lewis]

I was reading about this the other day, and the relevant bits for Michael Schumacher would appear to me to be the pre and post-title shitboxes. He was running just behind the cheat cars and picking up clever wins with them while his teammates were back in tenth like dickheads.

[Jimmy Floyd]

1996-9 for Schumacher is analogous to 2009-12 for Hamilton, with Schumi maybe edging those periods but also up against far worse opposition within them (fucking Frentzen in a Newey Williams, do me a favour). In fact, they are very comparable drivers overall, with the one major difference being Schumacher's weakness was general German weirdness/insecurity leading to a penchant for driving into people, whereas Hamilton's weakness was/is pussycat dolls, liking music and wishing he was American.

[Gray Fox]

4/5 of Hamiltons team mates are all World Champions. Meanwhile Schumacher only had 1(for 1 combined win between them). I also don't recall Hamiltons team mates being told to get out of the way so he could win, either.

That being said to my mind, both have had similar careers. Won in their younger days, before taking a gamble on a move to a lesser fancied team before being proved right and building their legacy there. Had Hamilton been able to drive into the pits in China, it'd be almost an exact replica.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Lewis coming in as a rookie and bullying the fuck out of reigning double world champ Alonso, to the extent that he had a complete meltdown in Hungary, nuking the entire team/sport for that season and sending his own career into a manic downward spiral from which it never truly recovered, was probably better than anything Schumacher did, unless you count murdering Senna with his bent electrics.

[Gray Fox]

I'd forgotten about that. Glorious :D

[Shindig]

Yeah, Schumacher never really ruined anyone in that manner. If anything, the obvious team orders elevated Barrichello's profile. Button and Brawn broke him but not Schumi.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Despite being fast, Rubens was always a bit of a beta male, somewhat like Bottas is today. Irvine knew the score when he went there. Massa was a shit Barrichello.

Johnny Herbert in '95 was his most fun team mate I think, winning both the races when Schumacher and Hill punted each other (more Damon's fault, those two) and giving it large.

[Shindig]

Yeah, Herbert was the only one in the revolving door that really showed some speed. That's probably the biggest thing that irked me about 1994. That car was so dominant in Shumacher's hands but they shat the constructors title because Verstappen and Lehto kept killing themselves.

[Disco]

Brundle was pretty quick but Herbert was quality, all on one foot too. Barrichello got shown up in 09, he had bags of sympathy from the Ferrari days and blew it all by whinging about conspiracies after getting body bagged by Button for a few races.

[Shindig]

And when he did win he got a whole paddock clapping for him like a tyrant. :D

[Disco]

Russell and Latifi confirmed for Williams next year. Will nobody take Checo's money?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Christian Horner might. I'm very glad about George, though, his is a serious talent.

[Pepe]

Happy to see him in a Williams? Brutal.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Shitting on one's team mate is always good for one's career, no matter how shit the car is.

[Disco]

It's good for him to be on the grid but even if he had to sit out a year he'd still have the all important Mercedes contract, another year of wiping the floor with Latifi won't change all that much.

[Gray Fox]

I was holding out some kind of hope we'd see Russell in the Red Bull, once they'd taken "Alex" out back and shot him. He's far too good to be slapping backmarker team mates about.

[Shindig]

Nah, Russell would've been in the same boat within six months.

[Disco]

I'm sure there are worse career moves than jumping out of a Mercedes and into whatever the Red Bull will be but I can't immediately think of one.

[Gray Fox]

Pretty much whatever move Fernando Alonso decides to do.

[7om]

I can't believe Giovinazzi has kept that Alfa seat. The guy is 26 now and has barely shown any kind of development.

I think it all but confirms that Ilott is finished as an F1 prospect with Schwartzmann probably replacing Kimi in 2022.

[Disco]

Having a look at the Race to Perfection series Sky have done, it's not bad, they clearly have access to all the right people and footage, and with 7 episodes all about an hour long it should be pretty comprehensive. However episode one has been overshadowed by Paddy Lowe and his awful jumper.


https://i.imgur.com/aVTAw4m.png

[Jimmy Floyd]

Watching my first free practice for about 8 seasons (I am a circuit guy so really wanted to see them drive this track, mostly quite badly as it turns out) and already Albon has been on the radio having a whinge about track limits as he has three laps in a row deleted - at Variante Alta of all places, where you get nobbled on the high kerbs anyway. Is he just blessed with a particularly whiny voice, or do these people not know how they come across?

[Disco]

I like zero fucks given mode Grosjean, in the week he not only revealed the fundamental flaw in the Haas but happily admitted they had no idea how to fix it.

[Giggles]

Having a look at the Race to Perfection series Sky have done, it's not bad, they clearly have access to all the right people and footage, and with 7 episodes all about an hour long it should be pretty comprehensive. However episode one has been overshadowed by Paddy Lowe and his awful jumper.


https://i.imgur.com/aVTAw4m.png


Is that on one of the channels or an on-demand thing?

[Disco]

I believe it's on demand but I downloaded it so I'm not sure.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Alpha Tauri looks absolutely mighty around here, wonder if they might sneak a cheeky second row.

[Disco]

I think that just got a lot more likely.

[Giggles]

Where is this?

[Disco]

Imola in Italy, always used to be the San Marino GP.

[thommo]

Imola, first time back since 2006. These last two weekends have been fantastic - a far cry from the carbon-copy tracks we seem to get with no character whatsoever.

George Russell is absolutely rapid too, what a lap in that Williams.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Watching these morons trying to deal with 'track limits' (formerly known as 'where the track goes') at these properly designed circuits has been great. Piratella is a beauty of a corner and these guys just don't want to face up to the talent-separating challenge that it is, they're desperate to ping it on the exit like it's a flat corner at Abu Dhabi or something.

The chicane up the hill seems to be flummoxing them as well.

[Giggles]

I believe it's on demand but I downloaded it so I'm not sure.

Just caught one about Ron Dennis on the Sky F1 channel.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Race starting in three, for anyone nearly caught out like I was with the fucking random start times they seem to use these days.

[Shindig]

Just caught it.

[Disco]

Lets see if the Hamilton pattern continues, if this is anything like Nurburgring or Portimao then he'll sit 2-3 secs back until the pit window approaches then ups the pace and makes the pass.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Think it will be tougher here, he might have to try a funky strategy or something.

I would love to see him and Verstappen in the same (or similar) cars, would be one for the ages.

[niko_cee]

Race starting in three, for anyone nearly caught out like I was with the fucking random start times they seem to use these days.

Yeah, cheers.

This race is like some sort of secret shame. Only one practice session and trying to sneak the race in to finish before most people would normally think about tuning in for the start.

[Gray Fox]

Lets see if the Hamilton pattern continues, if this is anything like Nurburgring or Portimao then he'll sit 2-3 secs back until the pit window approaches then ups the pace and makes the pass.

You also need the moan. "These tyres are dead, Bono!" 10 laps later on the same tyres, sets a fastest lap.

[Disco]

It might have to be the overcut rather than passing on track then.

[Gray Fox]

This extension from Hamilton will decide if he can challenge the top 2. That he instantly pumped in a fastest lap once free, suggests he was managing behind Max.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Max is going to get Bottas here.

[Disco]

Fucking lol if he gets both of them like this.

[Gray Fox]

If he takes Bottas likes this, Bottas with seethe himself to sleep tonight.

[Jimmy Floyd]

lol. Congrats Lewis, 93.

[Giggles]

He should do the euromillions tonight after that.

[Gray Fox]

That's amazing.

[niko_cee]

All going off here.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Wtf is going on?

[Gray Fox]

Max just looked like the tyre went bang.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It was a proper Mansell-esque explosion, haven't seen one of those for ages. Then George binning it under the safety car in a way I am not sure I have ever seen happen.

Fair play to Ferrari for somehow having stuck Vettel in P14 out of 15 here with that comedy pit stop.

[Shindig]

I think a bump unsettled him as he was trying to floor it.

[Giggles]

Nicely done “George” :harold:

[Gray Fox]

Dr. Marko will be readying the firing squad.

[John Arne]

Was Perez third before Racing Point decided to pit him?

[Gray Fox]

Was Perez third before Racing Point decided to pit him?

If memory serves they pitted him from 4th, just before Maxs' tyre went bang.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Kvyat's P4 there was the drive of the day. Shame he'll have to do it in Ukrainian tractor racing or something next year.

[7om]

I don't like to think this way, but that VSC was a complete joke. How long did they give it after Ocon retired before they activated it, 1 minute? 90 seconds? And it just happened to be when Lewis was infront of the pit entry? Yeah, okay. Completely fucking ruined what was potentially an interesting final half of the race.

[Jimmy Floyd]

These days they just seem to chuck down at least a VSC whenever anyone goes off.

Hamilton was pissing it either way but that just made it easier for him.

[Disco]

As soon as you saw the car smoking at the side of the track it was inevitable, he had the gap anyway though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I watched Australia '97 back the other night (brilliant race helped by the fact that I had forgotten everything that happens in it), people were binning it left right and centre and there was never even a hint of a safety car.

[7om]

Did he have the gap, though? He was around 27 seconds ahead of Bottas and that's about the pit lane time, wasn't it?

Either way they took an interesting finish and turned into a foregone conclusion.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Even if he had come out behind him (which would have needed a botched pit stop), he would have sailed past due to Bottas's debris damage. After the final safety car he strolled away into the distance as well. He's just ridiculously better than every driver bar Max and has a brilliant car, it's almost impossible to beat him unless he commits errors or has quite a large amount of bad luck.

Speaking of strolling, Lance is now five races without a point, most of it self-inflicted (bar missing a race with covid), with his team mate picking up 48 points in that time. Anyone else would be under incredible pressure.

[Shindig]

In his defence, we don't know how he's feeling since the Covid. Perez caught his earlier in the year so he's had more time to recover.

[Disco]

He spent the entire weekend in Portugal driving into the side of cars he knew full well were there, he just isn't very good. And if covid is affecting him to that extent he shouldn't be in the car.

Shockers today for Albon and Russell, the former must now be done and Formula E obscurity beckons for another promising young driver. Russell is now on three blown points opportunities by my count, this one almost Grosjean-esque.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Max is the one who murders them all. There was a good Mark Hughes article the other day which demonstrated that if you had two Albons in the Red Bull it would be about 4th or 5th in the constructors' championship. They were never stronger than when they had good old @aussiegrit in the second car (even if he was trying for it to be the first car, bless him).

However, I saw another argument put forward that when you have Max in the first car, you actually want someone shit in the second car as they are able to actually notice the imperfections and issues that Max just drives around.

[7om]

I desperately wanted Albon to perform today. I think it's the end though. Perez to Red Bull and Tsunoda in the Aplha, I reckon.

[Disco]

As Gasly has demonstrated this season the second Red Bull seat is something of a poisoned chalice and while I don't think Albons talent is lacking it's hard to see how you come back from results like this.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's not necessarily his pure pace (which is OK, I think), it's the fact that he keeps making errors and generally looking like a mess. There are some drivers who maximise results, he tends to minimise them.

[phonics]

Him crying about people racing hard should have had him immediately demoted.

[Gray Fox]

Marko has been pretty ruthless with Kvyat and Gasly before him, so it is odd to see him not lining up the firing squad already. Perhaps they don't have someone that can step into the car right away.

It still sounds like it's between him and "Checo" for next year too.

[7om]

Him crying about people racing hard should have had him immediately demoted.

Yeah fuck that guy for having low confidence.

[Shindig]

Marko has been pretty ruthless with Kvyat and Gasly before him, so it is odd to see him not lining up the firing squad already. Perhaps they don't have someone that can step into the car right away.

It still sounds like it's between him and "Checo" for next year too.

Marko's policy was on the basis there would always be a new kid to keep the pressure on. There isn't. He's chewed through them.

[Jimmy Floyd]

F1 is a brutal game, there are maybe 15 merit seats in the whole sport. There are drivers like Stoffel Vandoorne and Jean-Eric Vergne, and Hulkenberg for that matter, who are better than half the melts on the grid but if if you don't grab your chances, you're gone. They all know that.

This is why Russell was doing a full blub on the sidelines after binning it earlier, because he knows that he'll get one chance like that a season if he's lucky to make a statement.

[Giggles]

I remember being surprised to find out that Helmut Marko was a real person and not one of those usual style nicknames Jimmy had given Horner.

[Shindig]

I only heard him speak for the first time on a documentary about Jochen Rindt. I'd think he was an unassuming old man if it wasn't for the stories Adrian Newey told about him slagging Webber off.

[Disco]

Just caught one about Ron Dennis on the Sky F1 channel.

I've seen this one now (and the rest of the series), Dennis seems like he would be a fucking nightmare to live with. Decent series on the whole, some interesting bits and pieces that I've never seen before like some of the Alan Jones and Jack Brabham interviews and some of the old Williams footage. A bit too many re-treads or straight up repeats of entire sections though, I think we heard about Lauda's accident and return at least twice and while the emphasis on the historical side was ideal for me I thought there could have been another episode or so on the modern era.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not sure there's a lot to say about the hybrid era really, at least not the on-track stuff, other than the story of how Ferrari bungled everything year after year. I guess the Liberty stuff and Netflix could be interesting but then you're getting into meta territory.

[Shindig]

It's slim, yep. You do have Rosberg vs Hamilton, the emergence of Vestappen but not a lot else. Maybe Alonso's descent into proper madness or Haas being a new team that actually stuck around.

[Disco]

They did a little bit on Hamilton but only as a tack on to Ron's story. I suppose they may also not want to step on DTS toes.