F1 2020 - Corona Virus Edition

[Shindig]

Not at all. I'd figure in a modern context, more black drivers would be forthcoming. The other six black Cup drivers have only managed one start each. One start in a season that's like 35 races long.

[SincereTheRebel]

Oh. I see what you are saying.

[Disco]

It's sort of the same but I would argue the barrier for entry (ignoring race for a moment) into stock car racing is much much lower than F1. The feeder series are far cheaper to get involved with and I think there's a far greater proportion of ethnic minorities in its traditional heartlands (The US South) than there are in western Europe. F1 should have more representation but stock cars should have waaay more than a handful ever.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What is the entry pool for F1 in the UK, a few thousand people tops, 95% of them relatively rich?

It's more on the engineering side of things where F1 actually fails.

[Disco]

NASCAR only just banned confederate flags on cars and being flown by fans, add in this sort of thing and the message seems very much that blacks just aren't welcome.

[Shindig]

Especially when you consider Wendell Scott was doing it week-in-week out in the 60's.

[Lewis]

Motorsport is more of a saddo hobby than a traditional spectator sport, so unless you get into it through your dad (steady) where is a black lad in America (or elsewhere) going to develop an interest from? There aren't many black snooker players either, presumably for similar reasons.

[Shindig]

I learned something new today: Damon Hill brought the Sega money to Williams in 1993. I was genuinely surprised by that.

[Lewis]

The FBI found that that 'noose' was part of the garage door. :harold:

[Pepe]

Fuck me, that's amazing. :D

[Disco]

Pushing him down the grid looks pretty stupid now. I'm waiting for the fans to come back and then get kicked out with all their confederate flags.

[Shindig]

Hey, a lovely gesture is still a lovely gesture. In other news, I'm at Imola '94 in Damon's book. You can really see why Senna and Prost didn't get on. Their personalities were so different and I've never really bought the idea of Prost being a master politician. Senna was way more into that.

[Giggles]

Hey, a lovely gesture is still a lovely gesture. In other news, I'm at Imola '94 in Damon's book. You can really see why Senna and Aryrton didn't get on. Their personalities were so different and I've never really bought the idea of Prost being a master politician. Senna was way more into that.

Senna and who?

[Shindig]

Fuck. :D

[Giggles]

Another Andy Goram.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Prost wasn't really a master politican so much as he was French at a time when Jean-Marie Balestre was also French.

[Shindig]

I enjoyed the hypothesis Damon put forth about Senna's Indy test putting pressure on the FIA to nerf Williams, right in time for him to join them :D

[Disco]

Domination has always been cyclical, teams break up, people retire or are tempted away to other teams or regs change and someone else has the brightest idea.

[SincereTheRebel]

https://youtu.be/L_ziBCa1Dn8

[Shindig]

I'm legitimately disappointed with that ending. :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

Could you really do the whole esses in the same gear? He must have the clutch control of God himself.

[phonics]

Domination has always been cyclical, teams break up, people retire or are tempted away to other teams or regs change and someone else has the brightest idea.

Wasn't McLarens dominance caused in some part by Ross Braun saying they need to close this loophole for months, they didn't, so he exploited it and they were unbeatable?

[Disco]

Did he ever work for Mclaren?

[Shindig]

Nope.

March --> Williams --> Haas (the first one) --> Arrows --> Jaguar (the Le Mans one) --> Bennetton --> Ferrari --> Honda --> Brawn --> Mercedes

[Giggles]

Was it Brawn that phonics is thinking of?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I presume he said McLaren when he meant Mercedes, but I don't know the answer to the question.

[Giggles]

Brawn and Merc world be the same thing anyway aren’t they? Wasn’t there some technical thing early with the car in the Brawn year that made them (Button) unstoppable until everyone else caught up?

[Disco]

There was no loophole fr Mercedes, they just did a better job on the hybrids in pretty much every conceivable category.

[Disco]

Brawn and Merc world be the same thing anyway aren’t they? Wasn’t there some technical thing early with the car in the Brawn year that made them (Button) unstoppable until everyone else caught up?

They were one of the teams who used a double diffuser in 2009.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The double diffuser (my understanding of it begins and ends there).

[Shindig]

Yes, the double diffuser which Brawn nailed and I think Toyota had one? 2009 was weird. Having to develop their own KERS meant some teams didn't bother, etc.

[Giggles]

I went down a team history rabbit hole there and just copped that Force India are gone. What happened there? They looked they likely ones to break into the big teams for a time.

[niko_cee]

Lance Stroll's dad happened.

The whole Brawn thing was brilliant, the best bit being that Toyota had wasted a fortune on their team only to sell it for a pittance when it was basically on the cusp of donning everyone senseless. And then Brawn sells it for eleventy billion quid to the reich a year later.

[Shindig]

Honda's staff went from the Earth car to a not-quite factory Merc in a matter of months.

[Disco]

I went down a team history rabbit hole there and just copped that Force India are gone. What happened there? They looked they likely ones to break into the big teams for a time.

It's owner went bankrupt and is being chased by the Indian government for eleventy billion dollars. It's been bought by a group led by Lawrence Stroll (the guy behind Tommy Hilfiger) who also now owns a significant slice of Aston Martin. The team might become an AM 'works' team if the rumours about them building their own engine are true. They might also be far more competitive whenever we get going due to a deal with Mercedes which has seen them basically copy last year's title winning car (hence them being dubbed Tracing Point).

[Shindig]

Watching some VLN endurance racing now and they've went with two-phase pit-stops to give it some social distancing. They change tyres in the paddock and then refuel on a service road. They've been joking about how it could effect F1.

[Shindig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOF61tDGYwM

He's apparently stable but the Italian doctors aren't going to give any updates unless something significant changes.

[Disco]

Mercedes have changed their livery for 2020 and it looks great, who knew black was so cool all along.

1277542336248123393

Also, Codemasters reaction is quite good.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Mercedes-Benz, fighting discrimination since 1933.

That said, the great man tweeted out something in support of Pride yesterday and the comments below were truly something. I thought that stuff was restricted to third world football fans.

[Lewis]

The Bernie Ecclestone stuff was a bit mental. Not least because it's Bernie Ecclestone mate relax, but in actively refuting his comments, rather than just saying it's Bernie Ecclestone mate relax, Formula 1 has seemingly taken the official position that he was right, he just got the races the wrong way round.

[Giggles]

Bernie was probably right before he started making any excuses.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Looks like Mugello and Portimao are getting races. I don't know much about Mugello, but Portimao is an absolute beauty. Hopefully there's a good race and they do a deal to stay there.

[Shindig]

I like Mugello a fair bit. I don't know much about Portimao but it's one of the free tracks in RaceRoom. I should get some laps in.

[Giggles]

Is this back next week? That Netflix thing has got me interested again.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I like Mugello a fair bit. I don't know much about Portimao but it's one of the free tracks in RaceRoom. I should get some laps in.

I can't think of a track like it. On the overhead it's just a sort of Barcelona type thing with cut out and keep corners, but all of it is run over sweeping undulation and massive elevation change, into dips and up steep rises into blind braking zones. Beautiful to drive on a sim, hopefully the F1 cars aren't too quick for it. They might have to tighten up T1 as it's quickish off a long, long straight.


Is this back next week? That Netflix thing has got me interested again.

Yep, Austria this weekend, and 8 races confirmed so far: Austria x2, Hungary, Britain x2, Spain, Belgium and Italy.

[Giggles]

Nice one. Might grab a Now pass for the first few and see.

[Shindig]

I can't think of a track like it. On the overhead it's just a sort of Barcelona type thing with cut out and keep corners, but all of it is run over sweeping undulation and massive elevation change, into dips and up steep rises into blind braking zones. Beautiful to drive on a sim, hopefully the F1 cars aren't too quick for it. They might have to tighten up T1 as it's quickish off a long, long straight.


I do remember the elevation changes. They caught me right out.

[phonics]

I heard rumours they might turn Bahrain into a indy style circuit race for one.

[SincereTheRebel]

Do i need to keep quiet on Imola?

[Disco]

No fly aways planned as yet so lots of European places are in with a shout if they want to get to 15 rounds.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Scottish Grand Prix at Knockhill and we're talking.

[Shindig]

They should line up at the Snaefell Mountain course just to see how high F1 cars can make their ground clearance.

EDIT: There's an Asian man on the news about Leicester's lockdown with a fantastic Jaguar fleece. I want one.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Austrian GP Practice One Timesheet
Driver Team Time
1. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1:04.816
2. Valtteri Bottas Mercedes +0.356
3. Max Verstappen Red Bull +0.602
4. Carlos Sainz McLaren +0.615
5. Sergio Perez Racing Point +0.696
6. Lando Norris McLaren +0.805
7. Alexander Albon Red Bull +0.885
8. Daniel Ricciardo Renault +1.044
9. Kevin Magnussen Haas +1.091
10. Charles Leclerc Ferrari +1.108
11. Lance Stroll Racing Point +1.258
12. Sebastian Vettel Ferrari +1.261
13. Esteban Ocon Renault +1.454
14. Antonio Giovinazzi Alfa Romeo +1.544
15. Kimi Raikkonen Alfa Romeo +1.549
16. Pierre Gasly AlphaTauri +1.588
17. George Russell Williams +1.679
18. Nicholas Latifi Williams +2.090
19. Daniil Kvyat AlphaTauri +2.127
20. Romain Grosjean Haas No time set

Let's hope for Ferrari's sake that they had the whole season's worth of fuel in there.

[Jimmy Floyd]

After P2 looks like Red Bull are possibly the fourth fastest team after Merc, Ferrari and Force Canada (with a bit of a question mark over the order of the latter two).

Unlucky Max.

[Shindig]

I feel like the rest of the field doesn't have a chance unless a heatwave suddenly drops on the place.

[Disco]

Fp2 though, you never really know until qualy.

[Giggles]

Austrian GP Practice One Timesheet
Driver Team Time
1. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1:04.816
2. Valtteri Bottas Mercedes +0.356
3. Max Verstappen Red Bull +0.602
4. Carlos Sainz McLaren +0.615
5. Sergio Perez Racing Point +0.696
6. Lando Norris McLaren +0.805
7. Alexander Albon Red Bull +0.885
8. Daniel Ricciardo Renault +1.044
9. Kevin Magnussen Haas +1.091
10. Charles Leclerc Ferrari +1.108
11. Lance Stroll Racing Point +1.258
12. Sebastian Vettel Ferrari +1.261
13. Esteban Ocon Renault +1.454
14. Antonio Giovinazzi Alfa Romeo +1.544
15. Kimi Raikkonen Alfa Romeo +1.549
16. Pierre Gasly AlphaTauri +1.588
17. George Russell Williams +1.679
18. Nicholas Latifi Williams +2.090
19. Daniil Kvyat AlphaTauri +2.127
20. Romain Grosjean Haas No time set

Let's hope for Ferrari's sake that they had the whole season's worth of fuel in there.

I thought Ferrari won’t have their car ready until
Hungary and that’s basically last years?

[Jimmy Floyd]

It was on medium tyres, I was just having a lol really. They'll be top six I'd have thought.

[Giggles]

I’m just so happy to see it on again because (a) that Netflix thing and (b) I can do a handy sub without having to go all in on Sky.

[phonics]

I think the Channel 4 highlights package is better than watching the actual race tbh.

[Disco]

It's the only thing I watch live these days, the live timing adds so much.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If and when we ever get F1TV in this country I will be all over it.

[Shindig]

It's not? Is that to do with Sky's right's package? Seems a bit shit seeing as there's the archive. Granted, the archive's not that great.

[Giggles]

Also, Drive to Survive has taught me that Lewis Hamilton is a nice guy.

[phonics]

Watching an old race and seeing his Dad in the paddock was weird.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Regardless of the political stuff behind it (although motorsport does need a boot up the arse in some respects and Lewis is the man to do it), I really love the look of the black Mercedes.

[Giggles]

It’s pretty tidy.

[Giggles]

I actually think “Lewis” is the one of the main reasons I have never liked him. Same as Vettel, it’s Hamilton.

Martin Brundle, you’re not his best mate.

[Jimmy Floyd]

When you've watched guys for ages I think a bit of familiarity is alright. Vettel gets called 'Seb' all the time, and Max is just Max.

[Giggles]

Max is Verstappen unless you work with/ went to school with him.

[Shindig]

Senna called everyone by his surname if he was mad at them.

[Disco]

Regardless of the political stuff behind it (although motorsport does need a boot up the arse in some respects and Lewis is the man to do it), I really love the look of the black Mercedes.

Reminds me of this:

https://i.imgur.com/CduoZxw.png

[Jimmy Floyd]

With the added benefit of not having Pedro Diniz at the wheel.

For some reason both colour schemes > all the JPS black ones and imitations, in my mind at least.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Quali on now. Looks tight for 3rd-8th.

[niko_cee]

Ferrari bringing the lols already.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I thought the pink ice cream vans would be near them but I didn't think McLaren would blow them out of the water. lol.

[Gray Fox]

Bottas chucking it off the track to ensure his pole position is a bit lol.

[Shindig]

I wonder if Ferrari's chucked this year in favour of trying to gain on 2021.

[Giggles]

What happened with McLaren? Last time I really watched they were a back marker.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Lando plonking it 4th is pretty impressive. Hope his racecraft has developed.

[Gray Fox]

What happened with McLaren? Last time I really watched they were a back marker.

They've steadily improved the car, changed the engine supplier(Mercedes next year too) and have a couple of very good young drivers in.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53294057

Regardless of one's views on the subject, Hamilton sitting pretty on six world titles and still deciding to make every other driver's life horrendously uncomfortable with racism talk is majestic viewing. Reminds me of when Tiger Woods made Mr Player, Mr Nicklaus et al and the Augusta National committee eat fried chicken at his champion's dinner.

[SincereTheRebel]

He really has them on puppet strings. I read he is demanding 40m for a new Mercedes deal but they only want to give him 20m. How long until he plays the racism card?

He will go down as the GOAT once he calls it a day.

[Shindig]

He'll take his 7th and then leave the sport to take pity on a not-vegetated-Schumacher.

[Lewis]

Formula 1 strikes me as the last place you would want to establish the principle that 'silence is really generally complicit'.

[Disco]

Having the first track littered with Aramco adverts is a nice look, if Bernie was still in charge I'd think it was on purpose.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Remember that time they didn't show the Force Indias on TV for a whole session in Bahrain as revenge for them having had to flee a petrol bomb during the Arab Spring? In the top 10 petty Bernie moments.

[Disco]

On such a short track this can't be good news for the rest of the grid, Sainz must be double checking that Ferrari contract this morning.

1279463837939482625

[Giggles]

On such a short track this can't be good news for the rest of the grid, Sainz must be double checking that Ferrari contract this morning.


1279463837939482625


Seems to be gone, what was it?

[Shindig]

It's not gone, he just knackered the tweet.

https://twitter.com/f1visualized/status/1279463837939482625

[Gray Fox]

So Hamilton was cleared last night, but because Red Bull have pissed and moaned he's now guilty of the same thing?

Demoted to 5th probably secures Bottas a win(just) with Hamilton 2nd. That is unless something behind them is way faster in race trim/they are much slower.

[Pleb]

F1 is back :drool:

[Shindig]

Oh, Norris. I'm starting to believe.

[Pleb]

Bottas potentially being World Champions sounds proper filthy.

[Giggles]

Would Bottas have a hope?

[Pleb]

Yes.

[Giggles]

Yes.

Did Hamilton die last night and I missed it?

[Shindig]

I'd say yes but he'd need to keep qualifying strongly.

[Pleb]

Did Hamilton die last night and I missed it?
Hamilton bolted it at a yellow flag yesterday hence 5th.

This start hasn't helped him either.

[Pleb]

Never change Red Bull.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I lolled. Just as well Horner spent all morning whining.

[Gray Fox]

Snitches get stitches.... or hydraulic glitches.

[Gray Fox]

This needs a safety car to get the front 2 together.

[Shindig]

Oooh, this is getting very 'first day of school'. Everything melting at the first drive in anger.

[Pleb]

A safety car right now would be very memey.

Good to see Grosjean attempting to destroy his car.

[Gray Fox]

Lewis has been listening to the cucumber there. Casually wiping another second off.

If this keeps whittling down we may not need the safety car.

[Disco]

This could get tasty unless they just give him the undercut.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If Hamilton wins this on pace it's akin to him shagging Bottas's wife.

[Pleb]

Woof.

[Shindig]

Stacking. Show your mettle Bottas.

[Pleb]

That's a tasty release :D

[Shindig]

Hamilton tyre complaint count: 1.

[Pleb]

:D

Karma.

[niko_cee]

Good old 'Seb'.

[Gray Fox]

Ferrari being 4th fastest car at best is lovely to see.

[Disco]

Either Nicholas Latifi is a complete trust fund jobber or George Russell is the second coming of Jim Clark. Place your bets.

[Pleb]

Imagine everyone destroying their first set of engines on race one :happycry:

Black and White flag for Grosjean :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why are we watching a tractor Ferrari sit behind a McLaren in 6th when there's a battle for the lead inside 1s?

[Shindig]

Either Nicholas Latifi is a complete trust fund jobber or George Russell is the second coming of Jim Clark. Place your bets.

Latifi is the second coming of Lance Stroll. Same kind of financial backing.

[Pleb]

"Don't hit the kerbs" :cab:

[Gray Fox]

Sounds like Lewis has been given the instruction to call it off.

Maybe swap them around next week. This kind of advantage over the rest of the field is lol though.

[Disco]

A smell a switcheroo incoming.

[Pleb]

Netflix must be having a field day with this race.

[Jimmy Floyd]

A true Grosjean classic this afternoon.

Ferrari is just class. Can't stick to the back of Lando Norris. Bring back Ivan Capelli.

[Pleb]

Albon may get top two :|

[Gray Fox]

Both Mercedes are gonna have to get racy now. If only for a few laps.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If ever I heard a load of bullshit, it is 'stay off the kerbs' due to a sensor issue.

[Pleb]

They hit the kerbs :D

[Pleb]

Safety Car :D

[Gray Fox]

Fucks sake Kimi.

[Pleb]

Fucking WOOF

[Disco]

Lol.

[Shindig]

It's because you're black, Lewis.

[Pleb]

In before grid penalties.

[Pleb]

Ferrari just got 2nd :youpi:

[Gray Fox]

About fair penalty really.

Albon should have waited a bit though, he had a big advantage there.

[Pleb]

That was fucking tasty.

Norris on the podium :baz:

[Gray Fox]

Lando smashed it there.

Doing it again next week. :p

[Jimmy Floyd]

Those last two sectors from Norris were phenomenal, where did he find that pace?

Wonderful race. The penalty on Hamilton was fair but Albon was naive to put himself in that position when he clearly had the pace.

[niko_cee]

Albon's such a peanut. He was going to be all over Hamilton for however many laps there were left, no need to force things like that. Merc missing a trick by not switching them round and using Bottas to back up the field a bit, although that would have to have been a precise manoeuvre.

[Gray Fox]

What was that in the end. 3 safety cars?

Add that in a supposed wounded car and the Mercs were still comfortably ahead. Ominous for the rest of the season.

[Pepe]

Missed the race, but looking at the results, the number of DNFs is proper 90s stuff.

[Pleb]

You missed an absolute BELTER

[Giggles]

I’ll watch on 4.

[Disco]

Alex Brundle (son of Martin) is on comms for the F3 races and his voice is so weirdly similar.

[SincereTheRebel]

Thai Ansusinha needs to check his tone about sore loser.

[Giggles]

Between the commentary and the ad breaks I’m starting to remember why I stopped watching.

[Jimmy Floyd]

1279833431313133571

The exit from 3 is glorious as is the run through 8 (tbf the Mercedes was visually mighty through 8, especially in qualifying, such a great corner in these downforce cars).

[Shindig]

Lando needs an adult voice quick or else I'm going to hate all of his success. Must be great just go on a proper hotlap like that at the end of a grand prix.

[Gray Fox]

I'm completely fine with Lando taking over at the top when Lewis decides to go off on anti-racism crusades.

[Waffdon]

Lol I watch Lando on Twitch. He’s sound enough, didn’t realise he was as good as He is though. He’ll be bringing in thousands of different viewers into the sport

[Jimmy Floyd]

He's quite raw yet as a racer (got a bit lucky today with a pretty clumsy move on 'Checo') but the speed is there to be a race winner and more. I fancy George Russell might be a little bit better, though.

[7om]

Bets on an early termination of Vettel's contract? That move on Sainz was absolutely awful. The kind of shit I pull on F1 2019.

I love the guy but he hasn't looked right ever since Leclerc started out shining him last season. Unless we see something mental, like him playing second fiddle to Hamilton at Mercedes, I think this might be the end. Can't imagine him going to Renault and pissing about trying to scrape into Q3 every week.

[SincereTheRebel]

1279833431313133571

The exit from 3 is glorious as is the run through 8 (tbf the Mercedes was visually mighty through 8, especially in qualifying, such a great corner in these downforce cars).

That was a great lap. The last corner, he was right on the limit. I dont like the instructions from the radio though.

[Pleb]

Austria Part 2 is shaping up to become one of the best sequels since T2: Judgement Day.

[Disco]

Anyone else reckon the Mercedes sensor thing was a load of old shit? They just wanted a quiet 1-2 while the boss was in town.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Anyone else reckon the Mercedes sensor thing was a load of old shit? They just wanted a quiet 1-2 while the boss was in town.

100%, load of absolute balls. You can't not go on the kerbs around there unless you want to cede 1.5 seconds per lap or more even to the steady-paced competition.

[Disco]

They also spent three sessions happily running all over them, suddenly having an issue when your drivers are about to start squabbling was highly suspicious.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Initially I thought maybe they had some bedding in problems on long runs or something, as everyone else was falling to bits like one of the old clown cars, but when both engineers simultaneously started saying the situation was CRITICAL that was the giveaway for it being the classic Merc bullshit.

[phonics]

It was the same Engineer wasn't it. That James bloke who's head of it all, hence why he said it to both.

[Disco]

The final call came from James Vowles who is head strategist, but I think that was to drive the point home rather than meaning it was true.

[Pleb]

Smoke and mirrors personally.

[SincereTheRebel]

Didnt half the packs wheels and suspensions explode though?

[Pleb]

Yes.

It was glorious.

[Gray Fox]

I believe there was a "Gearbox setting 2-1" call made at some point to both drivers. I took that in the same way Multi 21 was given.

[niko_cee]

"Valtteri, Lewis has the better gearbox . . ."

[Shindig]

The embargo's up on the game so I can say this: Vietnam's track is legitimately nice. And Aramco is everywhere.

[John Arne]

The embargo's up on the game so I can say this: Vietnam's track is legitimately nice. And Aramco is everywhere.

I'd genuinely never heard of Aramco until last weekend.

Aramco - Where Energy Is Opportunity.

[Gray Fox]

Alonso is back for 2021 with Renault.

[Giggles]

Does that leave Vettel out?

[SincereTheRebel]

Vettel will be making youtube videos with Roseberg for a while.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Nico Rosberg's attempts at media presence are a bit sad. He is to charisma what Taki Inoue is to medical vehicles.

[Disco]

Rosberg is so horrible to listen to, can't ever be wrong or vaguely relaxed.

[Disco]

The things you learn.

The man who drove this car...
https://i.imgur.com/mMOPjvX.png

...beat Ayrton Senna to the 1978 World Karting Championship.

[Shindig]

I enjoyed diving into that Wiki. It's not a sure sign of success. Fullerton's career looks an odd one. For a guy name-checked by Senna, he didn't seem to do anything behind the wheel aside from the Karting.

[Pleb]

Rumours of Vettel to Mercedes are circulating.

Can't see that happening at all.

[Shindig]

I guess we'll know soon enough if Hamilton's parts start failing and Bottas starts looking like a title contender.

[Disco]

I see no upside for Mercedes in that deal.

[Shindig]

10 World Championships between them. You can market the hell out of that.

[Disco]

To who? Germans don't care about Vettel.

[Giggles]

Is he not finished as a driver?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Germans had eyes only for Schumi, lost interest completely after that and all watch DTM instead, for reasons that elude me.

Vettel to Mercedes makes no sense - I know he's having to haul a red minibus around at the moment but he's knackered and expensive. Hamilton is also expensive but a lot better, and Bottas is better and cheaper. They also have George Russell in the wings. It just makes no sense at all.

That said, I'm not sure, if I were Renault, I would have gone for a 200 year old Fernando Alonso over Vettel.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Actually, the reasons for Germans watching DTM don't elude me anymore after I went to the Munich Bauma show last year for work and on the Saturday the whole place was full of saddo wheelkickers with droopy taches decked out either in full Mercedes regalia, full BMW regalia or full Audi regalia, depending on their blind identity-based loyalty to their favourite company. F1 doesn't quite give you that immersive teutonic experience.

[Giggles]

Speaking of Vettel being useless, I stayed up far too late last night watching last seasons Interlagos which I hadn't seen before. Good race.

[Shindig]

Alonso probably brings plenty of money to the table. Vettel's probably done. He doesn't look like the type to switch to sports cars or try to triple-crown it like Alonso has been trying.

[Disco]

Actually, the reasons for Germans watching DTM don't elude me anymore after I went to the Munich Bauma show last year for work and on the Saturday the whole place was full of saddo wheelkickers with droopy taches decked out either in full Mercedes regalia, full BMW regalia or full Audi regalia, depending on their blind identity-based loyalty to their favourite company. F1 doesn't quite give you that immersive teutonic experience.

I recently watched some early 90s Mercedes DTM season reviews (because I'm just that much fun) and it's fascinating stuff. Keke Rosberg swanning about, a young Norbert Haug in the garage and huge crowds at every round. Tin top racing was just better in the 90s, it's all deathly dull these days.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The first motorsport I really got bang into was the 1995 BTCC. Absolutely brilliant racing, I could still rattle off half the grid now:

Alain Menu (stud)
Rikard Rydell
Derek Warwick
John Cleland
David Leslie (RIP)
Gabriele Tarquini
Tim Harvey
Paul Radisich
Matt Neal (PRIVATEER!)

I think Jason Plato joined for '96 as the Villeneuve-esque (at the time) bright new hope, god bless him I think he's still driving in it now.

[7om]

Shindig, do you think they will patch in the new Mercedes livery in F1 2020?

[Disco]

The first motorsport I really got bang into was the 1995 BTCC. Absolutely brilliant racing, I could still rattle off half the grid now:

Alain Menu (stud)
Rikard Rydell
Derek Warwick
John Cleland
David Leslie (RIP)
Gabriele Tarquini
Tim Harvey
Paul Radisich
Matt Neal (PRIVATEER!)

I think Jason Plato joined for '96 as the Villeneuve-esque (at the time) bright new hope, god bless him I think he's still driving in it now.

I was a Menu man in that era but the Ultron Peugeot and the Primera were great looking cars (ie horrible boxes).

[Jimmy Floyd]

The yellow/blue Renault was the dream machine with Menu at the wheel. Even he only retired pretty recently.

[Pepe]

Watching shitty box cars racing is as good as it gets. Who needs 'athletic lines' or 'aggressive stances'?

[Disco]

The yellow/blue Renault was the dream machine with Menu at the wheel. Even he only retired pretty recently.

Some of them are still going:

https://i.imgur.com/RbfLRFb.png

World Champ in 2018 too.

[Giggles]

The first motorsport I really got bang into was the 1995 BTCC. Absolutely brilliant racing, I could still rattle off half the grid now:

Alain Menu (stud)
Rikard Rydell
Derek Warwick
John Cleland
David Leslie (RIP)
Gabriele Tarquini
Tim Harvey
Paul Radisich
Matt Neal (PRIVATEER!)

I think Jason Plato joined for '96 as the Villeneuve-esque (at the time) bright new hope, god bless him I think he's still driving in it now.

That just about sums up the ultimate for me.

[Disco]

Before the shitty Vectra came along.

https://i.imgur.com/Uax7DaJ.png

[Disco]

I still can't quite believe they ran the estate version, with Jan Lammers no less.

https://i.imgur.com/IWPmANs.png

[Shindig]

Shindig, do you think they will patch in the new Mercedes livery in F1 2020?

Not a chance. Codemasters have already said they won't fiddle with things. You can run a shortened season in career and team mode but that's just 22/15/10 races rather than the Corona calendar. I don't think the Livery editor is good enough to fake a Blackcedes.

On the 90s DTM, I much prefer that era to the current toss. Having R8's and chunky Mercs on the grid go against what Touring cars should be.

[Clunge]

Mid-90s BTCC was just the bollocks.

[Lewis]

Minimal regulations, maximum interest [and cost]. Alfa Romeo homologating that spoiler without actually doing so was top scamming as well.

[7om]

Not a chance. Codemasters have already said they won't fiddle with things. You can run a shortened season in career and team mode but that's just 22/15/10 races rather than the Corona calendar. I don't think the Livery editor is good enough to fake a Blackcedes.

On the 90s DTM, I much prefer that era to the current toss. Having R8's and chunky Mercs on the grid go against what Touring cars should be.

They do have the new Williams in though, don’t they? The black Mercedes is so good looking that I’m going to hold off buying until we get a definitive answer on them patching it in.

[SincereTheRebel]

I never watched all that DTM stuff but one of my first racing games I played on the PS1 involved cards with lots of logos. I have never watched a real race though from start to finish.

https://www.mobygames.com/images/covers/l/195854-toca-2-touring-car-challenge-playstation-front-cover.jpg

[John Arne]

TOCA was such a good game.

[SincereTheRebel]

I never watched all that DTM stuff but one of my first racing games I played on the PS1 involved cards with lots of logos. I have never watched a real race though from start to finish.

https://www.mobygames.com/images/covers/l/195854-toca-2-touring-car-challenge-playstation-front-cover.jpg

Looking back at it, it has now evolved to Grid which ive never liked.

[Shindig]

Yeah, if you want a proper sim from Codemasters, you've got Dirt Rally and that's it. They now own Project Cars 3 which appears to have abolished pitstops. :uhoh:

[Disco]

Mugello and Sochi confirmed for September.

[Pepe]

Pretty sure the GTR lads also made a touring car game at some point. Not sure if I ever tried it.

[Shindig]

RACE. And RACE 07. And the Xbox 360 only RACE PRO. I bloody loved that one. Race Room counts as well, I guess. They did some Swedish Touring Car game as well. Simbin used to be so good.

[Disco]

While we're on a nostalgia trip, how about some of the mad Group 5 cars.


https://i.imgur.com/FXFDpTw.png

https://i.imgur.com/K7WO9ar.png

https://i.imgur.com/w2QXXL5.png

https://i.imgur.com/xWxLKe7.png

[Foe]

Those games were great. Just smashing your way into the other cars using them as a cushion as you accelerate through corners.

[Giggles]

I always found rally games to be the only ones in the driving genre that were any good, even though rally is shittest of the lot in real life.

[Pleb]

Loved playing TOCA2 when I was a kid then it went to shit.

I think the last racing game I've played was F12019 iirc.

[phonics]

Driving Games ranked:

1.
https://www.somagnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/28-12-e1587053899939.jpg
2.
https://cdn-products.eneba.com/resized-products/p3jhxn3sx1e1ibxdjd8q_390x400_1x-0.jpg
3.
https://www.allkeyshop.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/trackmania-ready.jpg
4.

[Shindig]

1. Burnout Paradise
2. Grand Prix Legends
3. Gran Turismo 4

I should get into Trackmania, though. It's dumb in all the right ways.

[Pepe]

If I did top three, it would probably be GT Legends, rFactor, iRacing. I agree that Simbin was great.

EDIT: Dirt Rally is also really good, as was Richard Burns Rally.

[niko_cee]

Shit, Burnout Paradise still unsurpassed? It was quality, mind.

[phonics]

Shit, Burnout Paradise still unsurpassed? It was quality, mind.

Yeah they brought out a 4K version but it’s broken as shit.

[Shindig]

It gives me a ChaseHQ I can actually go back to.

[Lewis]

I was amazing at Gran Turismo three and four, to the point where I could probably make money these days streaming myself screeching over them.

[phonics]

I still to this day want a Subaru Impreza 2003 with the below paint job because of a stint playing one of the McRaes

https://giantbomb1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/0/8124/1366384-subaru_impreza_wrc_1997_03.jpg

[Jimmy Floyd]

I have Project Cars 2 and if you take out the rubbish AI and just drive on your own, it's a thing of incredible beauty. Things like Old Spa in a Lotus of the era, or endurance stints with the light changing, are gorgeous.

[Gray Fox]

Back when I used to have more free time and a wheel I was in an F1 game league.

It was great fun at times. Though the rising popularity of capture cards meant people could record every session so you couldn't escape a bloody stewards enquiry afterwards sometimes.

There's certain limitations the AI has, no matter how high you turn them up. But you trade that for some human stupidity. Though the fact that you go through the trouble of finding the places that host the leagues out and inevitably get into your placement races does somewhat reduce the chances of a bell end not braking at turn 1.

[Shindig]

It's nearly always under braking when you see the AI's shortcomings. That and wet weather. I'll say this about F1 2020, I'm finding it real easy to control without ABS and TCS. Turn 2 in Austria used to be spin city for me but the rear seems more planted.

[Pepe]

I haven't done AI in forever. Back in the rFactor days I was in a pretty legit league with even a few pros or soon to be pros, before pros doing simulators was really a thing. It was a lot of fun but it required a huge time commitment for practice, which I had at that time but couldn't do now. iRacing definitely provides the best "casual" racing, although I mostly hotlap these days, since I rarely get enough time to do proper races.

[Disco]

Interesting day today, let's see who can run on the curbs again and if Ferrari decide to keep lying about how much drag is on their car (and all the other cars that use their engine).

[Jimmy Floyd]

If they're telling the truth then they should lap the field at the Hungaroring next up. Somehow I suspect they'll still be 8th.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Looks like their upgrades are actually downgrades.

[Pleb]

Apparently season ending in Bahrain for October.

[Disco]

Looks like their upgrades are actually downgrades.

Odd that a new floor and front wing didn't add the required horsepower. :sherlock:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Maybe they're trying to hide fuel in the front wing. Worth a go.

[phonics]

Did you guys ever read up on the fuel injection thing that Ferrari did last year. Absolutely incredible feat of engineering. The internal camera was taking pictures every hundreth of a second and they were injecting fuel inbetween those camera shots. Like the old warplanes that shot bullets inbetween propellers.

[Disco]

Yes I think it's come up once or twice.

[Disco]

Actually, the FIA/Ferrari deal now looks more and more like a top troll from whoever does Jean Todts job when he's off painting zebra crossings or whatever. They must have known it was going to royally fuck them over for the next two seasons.

[Giggles]

Why would need to be done between camera shots?

[Shindig]

So the footage looked like they weren't injecting extra fuel. In the rules, the tank you get is the tank you use. You can't sneak extra fuel in.

[Giggles]

Ah right, so had they a hidden tank? Any decent reading on it all?

[Disco]

The fuel flow sensor isn't really a camera, I think it uses ultrasound to measure flow rate but only at certain intervals. So if you pulse your fuel at the right frequency you get more fuel into the engine without tripping the sensor. It's an evolution of old ideas like flexible fuel lines to create reservoirs that you can use to increase power or simply mileage. Modern engines also use fuel as a coolant which is part of the issue Ferrari are having since they were caught. They can't run the engine at high power for very long because it was designed to work with illegal levels of fuel in it.

[Giggles]

Where were they putting the fuel and getting if from though? You’d imagine that job 1 would be that it’s measured for all teams.

[Disco]

Back in the day it was as simple as running the fuel line around the inside of the car several times to increase capacity, later teams would use flexible hoses that expand under pressure to hold more fuel. Current regs mandate the rate that fuel is allowed to flow into the engine, the Ferrari system wouldn't necessarily use more fuel overall it just let them use more than they should at certain points, under acceleration for example. They did that either by pulsing the fuel to trick the sensor or creating areas in the engine where it could pool to be used when the engine needed it most (as well as for cooling bits of the engine etc).

[7om]

FE suspended their race because the track is absolutely drenched. Can't wait for quali :drool:

[John Arne]

Where were they putting the fuel and getting if from though? You’d imagine that job 1 would be that it’s measured for all teams.

Cars have a limit of 105kg, but most F1 cars don't fill to the max (except at Singapore), so Ferrari were legally able to put more fuel in (up to 105) - without going over the limit.

[John Arne]

FE suspended their race because the track is absolutely drenched. Can't wait for quali :drool:

FIA will bottle it and cancel.

[SincereTheRebel]

Styrian was throwing me off. I wasn't sure where the GP was being held but its a second weekend in Austria

[7om]

FIA will bottle it and cancel.

To be fair, some of the F3 drivers were spinning off on straights so it probably is unsafe.

[Disco]

Are full wets still crap or are the cars just too big and heavy to run in the wet conditions these days?

[Disco]

It's barely raining, get out there you fannies. Thunder/lightning is the only thing that should delay the sessions at this point.

[phonics]

The Styrian GP should implement Bernies best/worst idea and just have the same track with a hosepipe Spraying ‘rain’ on the track.

[7om]

Was Germany last year worse? It's not exactly a monsoon so I'm not sure why they're being so cautious.

[Disco]

It will be the medical helicopter, they're in the arse end of Heidi-land so the nearest hospital will be too far away to run sessions without it being deemed safe for the helicopter to fly.

[7om]

Shame for Latifi there. He had to back off on consecutive laps right at the end. Two Williams in Q2 would have been lovely.

[Disco]

Still, it least the rain brings Ferrari back into contention.

:lol:

[John Arne]

That Q3 session was quality.