F1 2020 - Corona Virus Edition

[Jimmy Floyd]

If Bahrain was surrounded by grass and motorsport fans instead of sand and sand, it would be a really good venue. Turn 11 is a belter and the whole middle sector is fun to drive, but there's overtaking available into the first and last corners too.

[SincereTheRebel]

Who is Jimmy Broadbent, is he just a streamer?

Im asking the same thing

[Disco]

He is indeed a streamer, plays things like iRacing using one of those nerd rigs like Pepe has.

[Shindig]

And Gran Turismo licenses with Guitar Hero controllers.

[John Arne]

New F1 owners incoming?

[Shindig]

I've hear nothing about that. Losing 3-4 races so far off the calendar would hit anybody hard. I'm watching the 2009 season review and man, it doesn't half ruin my perception of Barrichello. From Monaco onwards, he's so bitter. Almost as if he and Brawn have never got on.

[Giggles]

I've hear nothing about that. Losing 3-4 races so far off the calendar would hit anybody hard. I'm watching the 2009 season review and man, it doesn't half ruin my perception of Barrichello. From Monaco onwards, he's so bitter. Almost as if he and Brawn have never got on.

What’s that on?

[Shindig]

https://www.youtube.com/user/deeppius

This youtube channel. They've got plenty of season reviews uploaded.

[Disco]

I've hear nothing about that. Losing 3-4 races so far off the calendar would hit anybody hard. I'm watching the 2009 season review and man, it doesn't half ruin my perception of Barrichello. From Monaco onwards, he's so bitter. Almost as if he and Brawn have never got on.

His season can be summed up by the start of the Aussie GP, before which he said he wouldn't be able to hear any team orders should they be used and then stalled off the line and ran into about three people at turn one. Season in a microcosm right there.

[Shindig]

Yeah, some of his drives were proper angry. Still, not as hilarious of Luca Badoer's two races.

[phonics]

What was Lewis' driving style back then? Nowadays he seems like the Roger Federer of F1, not particuarly exciting but it's so smooth that it's unstoppable. Was he always like that?

On the opposite end, Verstappens debut season where he gave zero shits :cool: So ridiculously aggressive.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In his early years (07 to say 10) he was on the ragged edge and had moments of brilliance combined with a tendency to be hard on his tyres/machinery. He was also quite immature.

Post-30 he's just been totally superior to the rest of the field in every way.

[Disco]

If you want to watch the 2014 Bahrain GP then it's on now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abxjNFw5jLs

[Pepe]

The legends race sounds promising.

[Disco]

It's up now.

I can't decide if Jolyon Palmer is good or a complete asshole but I'm living for his little smirk everytime someone unfamiliar with their equipment leaves the stream on in the background or similar.

[Pepe]

My man Adrian Fernandez getting on the podium the same way he always did: waiting for everyone else to crash out.

[SincereTheRebel]

Sounds like any public online racing game. Stay on the tarmac and your guaranteed points.

[Shindig]

MotoGP are in on the act now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp9wpD_wyUY

[Pepe]

Never played a MotoGP game, but that made it look legit. Have you tried them?

[Shindig]

Not for a few years.

[SincereTheRebel]

My PSN trophy list states the last time i played a Moto GP game, was back in 2015. It does look great.

[Pepe]

Might give it a go when it is on sale, that looked fun.

[bruhnaldo]

I tried to play MotoGP on xbox but i couldn't figure out how to drive tht fucking thing tbh.

Currently watching the iRacing NASCAR race as it's being broadcast on cable lol

[Pepe]

iRacing's Nascar is really legit.

[niko_cee]

Got to say I really like the idea of the F1 season fully leaking into winter.

Imagine a British GP in the run up to Christmas, or some snow races around Europe.

[Jimmy Floyd]

F1 is more fucked by this than any other sport I reckon. I can't see when they'll ever be able to restart, the whole setup is like an international virus train. We'll have to herd them all into Britain where the teams are based and have an eight-round championship at Silverstone, Brands Hatch, Donington, Thruxton, Snetterton and Oulton Park for a few years.

Ferrari can race each other around Maranello, which is probably what the old man would have wanted.

[Disco]

I was thinking about this the other day and I can't see how this won't change the way the sport works. Can you really see venues (whose business lies in gathering large amounts of disparate people together in one place) surviving in the same way? They surely won't be forking over millions in race fees.

[SincereTheRebel]

How much revenue is made from one F1 weekend?

[Shindig]

A quick glance says $225m per event (in 2008)

2018 had them at $1.8bn for the year.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I was thinking about this the other day and I can't see how this won't change the way the sport works. Can you really see venues (whose business lies in gathering large amounts of disparate people together in one place) surviving in the same way? They surely won't be forking over millions in race fees.

The race fees will be decimated and in turn the prize money will decrease by a lot, which means that a greater percentage of their revenue is going to have to come from TV / F1TV, and also the teams won't be able to spend nearly as much money as they have done. That will probably have to be mandated or else it will turn into a 2 or 3 car championship. A massive cost reduction will benefit the slicker operations and punish the teams that pour money into a black hole (hi Renault), meaning they might even think about pulling out (bye Renault). It will probably encourage some start-up cranks into the fray too, but only if they're able to get to all the races.

Venue wise, how are they going to convince Singapore to wank tens of millions on building a street circuit once a year?

I could be miles wrong here but my instinct is it'll almost have a time machine effect on F1 and reinstate a lot of the norms you saw in the 1990s and earlier, albeit with all the newer technological stuff retained.

[SincereTheRebel]

Just put the drivers into Tekashi castle and be done with it

[Disco]

Williams and Sauber will do well to survive you'd think.

[Lewis]

Williams' best bet is for Frank to die of it and have the family flog the team to some Arabs before he's even cold.

[Ian]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52091905

Good thinking, Helmut.

[Shindig]

I was toying with some hypothetical scenario where you ship the same 250,000 previously infected fans around the globe for the races and carry on as normal.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Normally Helmut only gets the chance to wreck one young man's life per year, the thought of doing several in at once must have really got the old loins stirring.

[Disco]

What a hilariously bad take that is, the man really doesn't have any redeeming features at all. Even Flavio came across quite well in recent his Beyond The Grid interview whereas everything you hear about Marko makes him seems less and less pleasant.

[Disco]

It gets better.



"We have four Formula 1 drivers and eight or 10 juniors, and the idea was that we would organise a camp...."

:uhoh:

[Lewis]

He safely guided a flying bomb round Le Mans in 1971. I say hear him out.

[Disco]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1sVKTvvmCo

One of my earliest memories of watching F1 is this race and it nearly killed my interest completely. Not much of a recommendation that really.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Probably one of the best title deciders ever along with 90, 94, 97, 08 and whichever one it was Vettel mugged off Alonso at Interlagos.

[Disco]

I've never rewatched it so I guess we're about to find out.

[Jimmy Floyd]

God almighty, Murray Walker was good.

Already had to drink two fingers with an Italian car breaking down.

[Disco]

I thought the Osella casually parked at the end of the straight was bad but they've left that Minardi there for ages. :D

I can't wait for pitstops, they look like a load of people out of the crowd have decided to join in.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Another two fingers for Arnoux blocking and a hand for Prost playing the long game.

There were some right choppers at the back in the 80s, who the fuck is Allan Berg?

[bruhnaldo]

"VIDEO CONTAINS CONTENT FROM FORMULA ONE MANAGEMENT"

uhh ok

[Disco]

Another two fingers for Arnoux blocking and a hand for Prost playing the long game.

There were some right choppers at the back in the 80s, who the fuck is Allan Berg?

That one got me too, no idea. Teo Fabi though :cool:

Murray really sticking it to Ferrari, livid that they've binned Johansson.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Murray's little devices he did were so great.

The popular,
The likeable,
The HUGELY TALENTED Italian.

[Disco]

I liked him describing Rosberg as 'grimly driving...' and how he called the onboard footage, there really is no equal.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There was a beautiful little crack in his voice at the end of a lengthy on board run with Johnny Dumfries when he said 'Must take you back to the old days, James'. I think that was the first year they had any on board footage.

[Disco]

2008 seemed old fashioned in terms of strategy, James Allen very proudly told us of computers that could run race simulations, but this seems positively prosaic. They phoned Frank Williams who described the fuel strategy as 'the driver has a fuel gauge' and tyre choice seems to have been 'stick a set of softs on and see if you can run the whole race'.

[Disco]

Also F1 must find, re-employ or clone the guy who used to wave the chequered flag.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Murray Walker using his own stopwatch to do intervals was another example of that. The only people that really knew what was going on out there were the drivers, and even then I'm not too sure.

[Shindig]

Just watched it. I love how much they have to just infer from the booth from paddock hearsay. You don't have some Ted Kravitz type pottering down the pitlane until erm ... the 90's with Tony Jardine, I guess. And the cars looked so proper then. Just the right amount of chunky and sleek.

EDIT: Briatore on the F1 podcast is great. The way he just bats off the Schumacher Adelaide stuff is wonderful.

[phonics]

Sounds like Jim might be right. Silverstone are offering to do Reverse races like it's fucking Mario Kart.

[Disco]

Double headers have been put forward as well, qualify on Thursday then races on Saturday and Sunday. That has the advantage of keeping the same dates and not having to negotiate new deals with circuits but it's all moot until they know which will be the first round.

[Shindig]

I really hope the season gets under way just to see it happen.

[Clunge]

If this season gets under way, it could be the most exciting one for years with everything turned on its head.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I chucked an F1 thing around Snetterton on Project Cars last night, ok it might be one abreast most of the way round but let's get it done.

Maybe a road race too, like the good old days.

[phonics]

The people demand Reverse Grid qualifications if it's going to be weirdo land. Go full pelt.

[Shindig]

Finish the season at Bathurst. Just because.

[SincereTheRebel]

One race during the day, and then reverse it for the night race

[Pepe]

Throw them into Caldwell Park. :drool:

[Shindig]

"Chase, what do you think of the facilities here at Croft?"
"..."

[Gray Fox]

Bernies finally got a son coming along. At the young age of 89. Said son will have 65, 35 and 31 year old sisters.

What a guy.

[phonics]

Forgot what thread I was in and thought this was about Bernie Sanders.

[phonics]

The mother is 35 years old and was the VP of Marketing for the Brazil GP. I knew he was rich but how is he worth 3.5 billion? Is it all from selling F1?

[Disco]

He's a used car salesman too.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The mother is 35 years old and was the VP of Marketing for the Brazil GP. I knew he was rich but how is he worth 3.5 billion? Is it all from selling F1?

He's one of the greatest swindling bastard deal makers of the last 100 years. Started on a used car forecourt and has talked his way into that fortune from there. There are some amazing stories about him, particularly one about him fucking Ron Dennis over the details of which I will need to look up again.

History will look back upon him very kindly. In a way he's the one building all this breathing gear in the Mercedes factory.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Here we are.


Soon, Ecclestone had organised Formula One so that it took all of the money from circuit advertising and sponsorship, plus a substantial fee from the promoters at each track, the television money, and the rake-off from the Paddock Club, the £1,000-a-plate executive club where businessmen could wine and dine their friends and associates while enjoying access to the teams and the best seats in the house.

The ringmaster had his circus and his acts lined up to perform, but but the audience was unaware of the mounting bitterness backstage: the promoters were squealing because they had to pay huge fees to stage a grand prix, and their only income was whatever they made at the turnstiles: one rainy day and they were in the red. Meanwhile, the teams were now on the warpath and wanted a bigger share of the profits.

Dennis, the most forceful character in the group, decided he would stand up to Ecclestone, particularly when it came to signing a new Concorde Agreement - the commercial deal named after the Place de la Concorde in Paris where the FIA has its headquarters. The agreement was the cornerstone deal that bound the teams to Ecclestone's companies and the FIA.

The contract, a secret outside the confines of Ecclestone, Mosley and the teams, was open on Ecclestone's huge glass desk in his Princes Gate office, awaiting signatures, but Dennis, as clever as any tycoon in British industry, was adamant that no one would sign a deal that appeared to Ecclestone's advantage. 'I'll bet they do,' Ecclestone said, looking up at Dennis, a broad-shouldered, commanding figure towering above him. 'I am telling you, Bernie, that no one will sign that agreement,' Dennis came back. 'Yes, they will. Bet you.'

The bet was taken and the amount quickly escalated until it reached £5,000, when Ecclestone said, finally: 'Someone will sign. Look.' With that, he picked up a pen and scribbled his signature at the bottom of the document. 'Told you,' he grinned. Dennis had been outfoxed, but there was revenge. 'I knew Ron would pay up, but he sent the five grand round in 50p pieces,' Ecclestone chuckled.

[bruhnaldo]

Hold on. He won the bet by signing his own name? Shenanigans?

[Shindig]

The bet was nobody would sign it. Bernie signed it. Bet won.

[niko_cee]

Not really the greatest trick ever pulled though, I was hoping for more than that.

[Shindig]

When I first read it, I thought he'd signed Dennis' name which seems more on the money for Bernie.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There was another one which I can't find in which he sold someone an expensive car and it turned out to be just the bonnet, or something. He's basically the most successful chancer of all time.

[bruhnaldo]

The bet was nobody would sign it. Bernie signed it. Bet won.

What I'm saying is (not that you already don't know) is that's kinda fuckin corny.

[Clunge]

I thought it was going to end with Dennis somehow having swapped the contracts so Bernie ended up signing the one Dennis wanted.

[Shindig]

Knowing what I know of Ron Dennis, I was expecting this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrRYzu6cTLQ

[Disco]

Anyone watching the Monaco replay?

Mark Blundell just rubbished Jacques Villeneuve for not being David Coulthard. :harold:

[Jimmy Floyd]

This race was the absolute best. Remember watching it live as an 8 year old.

The last win for a French driver to date.

[Shindig]

I've seen it before but I'm going to give it a rewatch later.

[Giggles]

It’s too far back for me when I see Alesi, etc on the graphics.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Some nice blocking cameos from Luca Badoer in the Forti. A trooper among troopers.

[Shindig]

He was so excited to join Ferrari. :(

[Jimmy Floyd]

Watching that race was more Murray Walker appreciation. One of the best things he used to do is the old rule of three, where he got so excited on a particular word he would repeat it three times for no real reason. In this case:

'We're going to the two hour limit! It doesn't matter what lap we're on now, it's all about TIME, TIME, TIME!'

It annoys me when people remember his 'gaffes' or Murrayisms, he was the best commentator that ever lived by such a vast chasm.

[Shindig]

Enthusiasm goes a long way in commentary. Murray liked what he was seeing and who was doing it. And if you missed who the top six were, Murray would be in your ear telling you at a rate of roughly twice a lap. Because this, motherfuckers, is an important event.

There's a line he gives in the Beyond the Grid podcast when he refers to the current product, "I've seen the best of it." He's right and you can tell, moment to moment, he's having the time of his life.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There's another F1 sim race tonight 8pm (I think) with quite a funky lineup:

Team Driver 1 Driver 2
Alfa Romeo Antonio Giovinazzi Johnny Herbert
AlphaTauri Luca Salvadori Nunzio Todisco (AKA NU89)
FDA Hublot Esports Team Charles Leclerc Arthur Leclerc
Haas Pietro Fittipaldi Louis Delatraz
McLaren Lando Norris Jenson Button
Mercedes Stoffel Vandoorne Esteban Gutierrez
Racing Point Anthony Davidson Jimmy Broadbent
Red Bull Alex Albon Ben Stokes
Renault Christian Lundgaard Andrei Heimgartner
Williams Nicholas Latifi George Russell

[phonics]

It's been years but every time I see Chase Corey his moustache blows me away.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVBdIIIXYAc0tem.jpg

[Disco]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0SxjsnWXOI

Jerez 97 is today's replay, first three cars qualified with exactly the same time and someone gets run over by the karma train.

[Shindig]

Mika's first win and he didn't look back for a couple of years. Coulthard wondering whether he should pass Villeneuve was great.

[Jimmy Floyd]

No spoilers please, my fingers are crossed that the sausage monster will come through for his third title, although I always remember this race for producing the most Formula 1 bust-up ever:


The people chosen to present the trophies were dependent on the race order, with Daimler-Benz chairman Jürgen Schrempp only willing to make a presentation to a McLaren-Mercedes driver. As the McLarens of Häkkinen and Coulthard passed Villeneuve's Williams on the last lap, this would have meant he could present either the trophy for first or second position or the winning constructor trophy. There was some confusion due to the late changes in position and whilst the Mayor and the president of the region presented trophies, Schrempp did nothing. FIA president Max Mosley later announced "The disruption caused embarrassment and inconvenience to those presenting the trophies and therefore, no further rounds of the FIA Formula 1 World Championship will be held at the Jerez circuit." As of 2020, this race was the last time that Jerez hosted a Formula One Grand Prix, although it has held many pre-season test days.

[Disco]

Your man looks to have this under control, grazie ragazzi etc

[Jimmy Floyd]

Shout out Norberto Fontana. I actually remember watching this on my grandad's TV, which fucking dates it as I don't think the old fella made it out of '97 alive.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This is actually quite lol, as they come around having to both lap various Ferrari-engined cars, Schumacher family members, Fiat shareholders, owners of pasta emporiums in Maranello etc. and Villeneuve loses half a second every single time.

[Disco]

That all happened much faster than I remember.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Jesus, it was so much more blatant than I remember as well. Probably the worst of all his misdemeanours. He really shouldn't have been allowed in the 1998 championship, got away scot free.

[Disco]

He very obviously takes two goes at turning in, one to take the corner and one to try and nobble Villeneuve. Parking at Monaco was even more blatant and running Rubens into the wall in Hungary was more dangerous, both of which were all his own work. His moves on Hill and Villeneuve were more opportunistic, both guys put their cars in the position for him to do it, both could and should have waited for a better spot to pass. You don't expect someone to intentionally ram you but this time Villeneuve knew he had form and should probably have held off.

[Shindig]

Waiting for a better spot to pass doesn't really work, though. There's not a person on the grid, presented with an opportunity, who won't go for it.

[John Arne]

Coulthard overtaking Villeneuve in the penultimate corner and then slowing down to let him back past again is quality. All the other drivers really disliked Schumi.

[Disco]

Everyone apart from Hakkinen softballed the last ten laps or so, you can almost see the moment he lost patience and decided he fancied his first win.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You could tell in that era when people were backing off, as Eddie Irvine would then be able to match their lap times.

[Shindig]

I still can't fathom how he got so close in 1999.

[bruhnaldo]

Those yellow square numbers and the graphics really take me back to childhood.

[phonics]

Not sure anyones linked this. It's fantastic stuff. I'll wear my Verstappen fandom on my sleeve but 20 minutes of onboard with that fightback in the rain.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBnixyOK8uQ

[Jimmy Floyd]

That was a great drive. I can't decide whether I like Verstappen or not. His fanboys are fucking annoying in the way that Raikkonen's used to be, and I'm Hamilton 4 lyf so as long as Lewis is out there I am probably going to have to despise Max by default.

[Shindig]

I like Max. He's the only person of the current crop (that isn't Hamilton) who has that kinda of raw talent. Leclerc's second on that list but you can just tell that when those two get together, Charles will bottle it.

[Disco]

He's excellent but his attitude is still that of a very young man to which everything has come very easily (see his reaction to Bottas being in the wall in Mexico for example).

[Disco]

It's another cracker this evening, regenmeister origin story.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csI2dzm-lqY

You heard it here first.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not sure if I can sit through that although my extremely detailed F1 brain tells me Pedro Diniz finished in the points. I did watch the full race of Donington '93 the other night. As much as Senna was unbelievably good in the wet, Prost was equally terrible, seemingly through a lack of courage (James Hunt, in one of his last commentaries, wasn't afraid to get stuck into him for that).

[Giggles]

Why can't they just let people watch them whenever suits? 'Premieres at 7pm' my hole.

[Disco]

Not sure if I can sit through that although my extremely detailed F1 brain tells me Pedro Diniz finished in the points. I did watch the full race of Donington '93 the other night. As much as Senna was unbelievably good in the wet, Prost was equally terrible, seemingly through a lack of courage (James Hunt, in one of his last commentaries, wasn't afraid to get stuck into him for that).

Hunt would have poleaxed Diniz for similar, I'm pretty sure he trundled around for the last portion of the race.

These are all available on demand once they've 'aired' but I'm not sure why they don't do one every day, there's upwards of 1000 races it's not like they'll run out.

[Shindig]

Because they'd rather people paid for F1TV.

[bruhnaldo]

We gonna have coronavirus in the OP all season and this shit is gonna be over by the end of March ffs

i did this, didn't i?

[Shindig]

Watching the 1994 Japanese Grand Prix and I'm starting to really think the whole Benetton had a blown diffuser has some truth to it. Under braking, that car definitely sounds like there's a little misfire. The blown (or was it double) diffusers of the Red Bull era sounded like machine guns when they hit a heavy braking zone.

What a proper car and what a proper driver Schimi was.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There's probably an argument that 1994 was Schumacher's best season, given that that Benetton wasn't necessarily the class of the field, although as ever he spoiled it for himself by being a cheating cunt at least 2-3 times.

He also must have had the slowest/oddest array of team mates that year that a top driver has ever had.

Hill was a weird driver. Entered the sport in his mid thirties. Good in '93, excellent in '94, dogshit in '95, supreme in '96, good in '97 and '98 in slow cars, and then completely lost it in '99.

[Shindig]

I love Damon's journey to the top but these races really make me appreciate Schumacher. Benetton couldn't pick a second seat filler but Herbert did alright. I thought JJ Lehto was highly rated but his results look dog rough. Aside from that podium in a Scuderia Italia. I probably need to seek that weirdness out.

Schumacher should've had an easier time in 94. I still can't for the life of me wrap my head around the formation lap in Britain.

[Jimmy Floyd]

1994 in general was a complete mess of a season. The stuff that happened at Imola had the weirdest knock-on effects with chicanes going in everywhere for no real reason (including at Eau Rouge, of all places), people getting race bans and black flags all over the place, cars going on fire, and everyone swapping their drivers constantly (literally every race, for some teams). It was generally a rapid era shift with the Prost/Senna/Mansell period ending quite suddenly, and mainly a load of playboy choppers, Japanese idiots and fresh-faced novices being the ones to step in.

[Disco]

94 is also a decent point to mark the transition from garagista dominated grids/teams to a more corporate outlook, Williams would trade off their position for a while but teams like Mclaren and Ferrari were just about to realise that oily hands didn't often scrub up terribly well. There's increasing amounts of money sloshing about from better tv deals and an influx of more business oriented thinking to make the most of it. You also have the GPDA being reformed and a general realisation (or acknowledgment) that safety had to be tackled from multiple angles, it's probably the point at which the basic structure of the sport took on the modern template.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah, it was 14 teams in 1994 and only ten by the end of 1996, the era of going racing to go racing basically stopped overnight. Plus - and I can't really word this tastefully - Senna's death must have been terrible for business.

'94 the last season for Lotus of course, epitomising that shift perfectly.

Of course it was good old Ron who managed to bridge the gap better than anyone.

[Shindig]

Even if Senna carried on, he wasn't far off retiring. I never considered how that era all retired at once.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Suspect Senna had a couple of years in him. He would have pissed the '94 title in spite of that bad start, the Williams was too good a car.

[Disco]

It was either Senna or three or four lesser drivers, that's what it would have taken to get the same sort of changes in place. Those cars had reached a point where they had outgrown the circuits, Wendlinger nearly killed himself at Monaco of all places in the very next race. And yes, unpleasant or otherwise the truth is the impact of driver deaths was far greater because the sport was far more reliant on sponsorship and tv (ie exposure). The last big one was Villeneuve a decade earlier and the era before that was littered with fatalities that had little to no impact beyond annoying Jackie Stewart.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The other thing 1994 had was perhaps the best sounding of all F1 engines, in the back of the Ferrari.

[bruhnaldo]

The other thing 1994 had was perhaps the best sounding of all F1 engines, in the back of the Ferrari.

Ironically yesterday on IG the algorithm posted a compilation someone made comparing the V12,10,8,6 from Ferrari over the years that I promptly watched repeatedly for the next 30 minutes.

That V12 :drool:, though.

[Disco]

The sound of it going up the gears, each time convincing me it can't sound any more frantic. Then it changes up again. :drool: Even on the way back down the throttle blips are amazing.

Noise nerd time: Mazda 787b and Corvette C6 I could also listen to indefinitely.

[Lewis]

The three litre Matra V12, as found in the MS650 and MS670.

[Disco]

Then there are Porsche engines which just sound like this guy:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAVL61yeCYs

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm rather partial to this bad boy as well:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ1wpg8ebSE

[Lewis]

I've always liked that ridiculous old, British engineering at its best/worst BRM V16 and its weird small man in a box echo. Honourable mentions in the Great British wheezes list go to the race trim Jaguar V12, and the three litre V6 they built for the Metro 6R4. That was a brilliant engine, and had a sensible company built it they would still be using derivatives of it today (how is that possible? (https://car-emissions.com/cars/index/jaguar+xj220)).

[Disco]

Was it BRM who tried an H16? Lotus certainly used one for a bit and it sounded ridiculous, although never for very long.

[Shindig]

The gas turbine Lotus rolled out briefly sounded cool.

[Lewis]

Yeah, and they stuck it in that shitty Lotus. The Rover-BRM turbine cars that went to Le Mans with Graham Hill and friends were stupid as shit, even if it technically won its class first time out. The Howmet TX at least looked great.

[John Arne]

#Rumours

https://gyazo.com/bde79b9a24b880fb12630d87bea9f3a4.jpeg

[Jimmy Floyd]

Even if some of that happens, they are having a laugh if they think Singapore is going to be barriered up for a car race in September.

European GP at Donington and English GP at Brands Hatch, pls.

[Disco]

Double Hungary though :drool:

If the US one has no fans I say it doesn't happen, they're in trouble as it is.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If it came to it they should just have about six in the UK and the others at the RBR. I'm honestly not sure how all those people are going to be jetting around the world this side of Christmas.

Fog race at Snetterton in November, sign me up.

[Shindig]

Man, that 1999 European Grand Prix was special. I know the result was daft but there's some really good drives out of that. Both Stewarts, Schumacher and Frentzen before he gimped his anti-stall were sound. Gene and Badoer running 4th and 6th was daft and we had some atrocious drives from top talent. Coulthard pushed his luck, Irvine was Ferrari'd by pit crew and Hakkinen was awful.

I had it in my head the Irvine shambles was intentional (because they'd rather have Michael break the drought) but the Salo one beforehand was a complete clusterfuck as well.

[Disco]

Wanky online gubbins aside the Brazil virtual GP is worth watching just for battle between Leclerc and Albon, 15-20 laps absolutely nose to tail.

Also, lol at Simon Pagenaud the whiny little bitch.

[Shindig]

Yeah, although the Lando fanboys/girls are out in force against him. The internet is a piranha tank. Ferucci did a similar thing in iRacing which erm... people weren't best pleased with.

[Disco]

Santino Ferrucci in 'being an asshole' shocker.

[Jimmy Floyd]

All the ones of those I have watched have been defined by literally all of them (including Lando) being whiny little bitches, which basically confirms everything I thought I knew about grand prix drivers.

[Shindig]

I think it's worse now because they're so fucking young.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah, in the good old days you'd have had to do your time and become a man before you jumped in an F1 car. Comes with the technology improving - they are physically a piece of piss to drive. All you have to be is light, as far as I can see, and then it's just down to skill and how much moolah your dad has.

[Shindig]

It used to be that breaking in at a young age signified your talent and maturity, too.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Age at first GP

Fangio 39
Moss 22
Brabham 29
G Hill 29
Clark 24
Stewart 26
Lauda 22
Piquet 26
Prost 25
Mansell 27
Senna 24
Schumacher 22
Hakkinen 23
Raikkonen 21
Alonso 19
Button 20
Hamilton 22
Vettel 20
Leclerc 20
Verstappen 17

You can basically map the trend against the relative importance of aero vs mechanical grip in the respective eras.

[Lewis]

I watched that Fangio documentary a few weeks ago, and it left me wondering whether he was great because he didn't crash or he didn't crash because he was great. It seems to me that there were a number of occasions where he was done by people in comparable machinery who were willing to push it further (notably Stirling Moss), so maybe it was experienced consistency more than anything.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He definitely wasn't as flat out quick as Ascari, but probably had the measure of Moss. He had great - I don't know whether you'd call it luck, but maybe timing? He also burgled his Ferrari title by jumping in other people's cars.

Nonetheless, being that quick in so many different cars and that averse to disaster throughout the 1950s makes you pretty great.

[Disco]

I think of that era whenever people bemoan modern F1 because the drivers aren't going flat out from lights to flag, there must have been a fairly short window when the cars were safe/reliable enough and the tyres durable enough for that to have been the case. Basically, if Alain Prost was 25 years younger nobody would ever have beaten him.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I doubt anyone has ever gone flat out from lights to flag apart from possibly Senna in his McLaren heyday, and maybe early Hamilton on the grooved tyres. It isn't a great idea really in long form motorsport. Christ knows how Jim Clark managed to stop those Lotuses from falling to bits going at that pace.

[Shindig]

All the greats have some element of risk management, except maybe Senna. He thought God would protect him. Hawthorn had a death wish because he knew his kidneys would off him early.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Seb leaving Ferrari. Not necessarily retiring, by the sounds of it.

Danny Ric and Carlos Sainz seem to be the shootout for the seat.

[Shindig]

I'd probably favour Ricciardo in that. She shows more aggression so could theoretically drag more out of the car. Or they should just kidnap Verstappen. And Vettel should go to Mercedes to see if he still has it in him.

[Disco]

Verstappen just signed a big new deal so he's going nowhere. Sainz would seem an ideal quick but not too quick partner for Sharl.

[Pepe]

Vettel to Nascar.

[Disco]

Hulkenberg in the mix too I would think, Ferrari often go for established drivers. Who's in their youth program? Giovenazzi seems unlikely, too early for Schumi2.0 you would think.

Where Vettel goes is not exactly obvious. Red Bull surely are out, Merc have Russell waiting on the sidelines, which leaves Renault assuming they have a spare seat, Mclaren in the same boat.

[Gray Fox]

The best route in my mind is Sainz. He's 5 years Ricciardos junior and seems a better fit.

Though this is Ferrari so they'll likely fuck it up gloriously.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Sainz is a classic Ferrari second driver fit. He's like a better looking Felipe Massa. Done his time in the midfield, quick but not too quick, dad knows all the right people.

Danny Ric would be a bit more of a maverick, though on the plus side he has the Italian name and is possibly a stronger driver, although I don't think there's a lot in it.

[Disco]

So Sainz to Ferrari.

Ricciardo to Mclaren? That leaves Renault as the only real seat for Vettel, unless he retires.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Martin Brundle earlier speculated either that, or Vettel to retire and the Renault seat to go to Darth Nando, making his 14th and most pointless motorsport comeback yet.

Renault aren't going to get anything together as long as Nice One Cyril is still dragging himself around the paddock, so I personally don't see the point for either party. As for Vettel to Renault, well, unless it's in lieu of reparations from the Franco-Prussian war I don't see the point of that either.

[Pleb]

Isn't Hamilton meant to take Vettel's seat?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Only if he wants his 7th and 8th titles to vanish in a conflagration of botched pit spots, broken ERS units and strategy faux pas.

[Disco]

Alonso would do a better job than Vettel but is it worth the inevitable knife in the back?

[Shindig]

Only if he wants his 7th and 8th titles to vanish in a conflagration of botched pit spots, broken ERS units and strategy faux pas.

"Get it on there and send him out!"

[Lewis]

Aren't Renault likely to be first out the door if it isn't all back to normal sooner rather than later?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Probably not, as they won't run out of money, which 2-3 of the others might.

[Shindig]

I'm sure there was noise about them being on shaky ground. I can't imagine Chase and Associates (tm) would let an engine supplier wobble like that.

[Disco]

The Renault board 'renewed their commitment' not long ago (including investing a load of money in the engine setup) and they're about to qualify for more prize money. Fuck knows in this climate though, but you'd think they'll be better insulated than other teams (inb4 they sell it back to Flavio for a quid and a box of t-shirts).

[Disco]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmzuzP67Ask

This is nice, the big yellow numbers hold serious nostalgia for me as has seeing 'Olivetti' on the timing screens of some of the old races they've been showing.

[Shindig]

Did the yellow bars mean anything under the numbers and times?

[phonics]

Sainz confirmed to Ferrari with Danny Ric to McLaren.

[Disco]

My guess is Vettel retires, for some reason I just can't picture him at Renault and there's nowhere else to go.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Going to Renault is like having one of your balls removed. No one has made a successful move there since, what, 2003?

[Disco]

I was going to say Kimi did ok but it was still Lotus at that point.

[Shindig]

Kubica didn't do that bad.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Apart from the bit where he lost a hand and had to retire for eight years.

[Shindig]

That wasn't the Renault's fault.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Doesn't have to be. It's a curse on your career, like a football move to Newcastle in the last 20 years, Gini Wijnaldum aside.

[Disco]

Lots of rumours flying about regarding Renault. They're apparently quietly looking at either running the team on a reduced (ie non-competitive) budget or selling it to someone. The catch being whoever buys it must run Renault engines as well.

[Lewis]

Thwarting their own sale to justify stopping bothering. How French.

[Shindig]

Alonso's name is in the frame for the seat. The Santander money might do them some favours.

[Disco]

Formula E driver Daniel Abt has gone one better than Bubba Wallace (who lost a real world sponsor for rage-quitting an esports event last month) by getting sacked from his real racing job with Audi because he got a sim racer to impersonate him in the FE online races they've been doing.

:lol:

[Giggles]

Sacking him for that is ridiculous.

[Shindig]

His results in reality haven't been great either. And he did basically sod off Unicef. In other news, I'm trying to find interviews about the Benetton 194. Mainly because I can't imagine a more controversial and secretive F1 car. Here's the aerodynamicist of the car talking about detox:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRdIOMIww-8

Rory, I just want to know why Michael was so quick in it. :(


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rF1p6UYFuc

Good advice but how like, did that Benetton smash everyone at the start of that season? Like, he's at Newey's level but finding anything from his mouth about it is surprisingly tough.

[Shindig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4JeSuejA4w

I joined this just in time to see the pile-up.

[Disco]

Murray has, at least twice, called Damon Hill the 94 world champion.

[Shindig]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52847040

Williams up for sale. Strangely inevitable.

[Jimmy Floyd]

How is Frank only 78? He was entering privateer cars in the 60s.

Liberty really badly need to find a mechanism to attract new entries, it's far too much of a closed shop to be healthy in the long run at the moment.

[Shindig]

He gave Courage that drive when he was 27. That hairline would put years on anyone. Actually, he was in F2 and F3 at 24. Madness considering he funded it as a travelling grocery bloke.

It's like Greg Wallis selling arms on the side.

[Jimmy Floyd]

So when I started watching F1 in '94/'95 he was in his early fifties? Mad, I had him as 65 then and like 90 now.

[Shindig]

For comparison sake, I looked at another of South Shields' finest (Ridley Scott) and found out he's 82.

[Disco]

Weren't there a raft of cost cutting measures announced earlier this week? I haven't read them but presumably they're accelerating their plans to save a few teams in the short term and attract more in the longer. That's the only way you'll do it.

Pop quiz: most recent new team (not buying an existing entry or renaming it like FI/Racing Point) that wasn't utter trash? I can only think of two in all the time I've been watching.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The 90s had Jordan, Sauber and Stewart which are all still there in some form or other. The 00s had precious little (RIP Toyota). The 10s have had Gene Haas.

Ferrari (1948)
Mercedes > Brawn > Honda > BAR > Tyrrell (late 60s I think, maybe 1970, bit of overlap with Matra)
Red Bull > Jaguar > Stewart (1997)
McLaren (mid to late 60s)
Williams (mid 70s)
Renault > Lotus > Renault > Benetton > Toleman (1981)
Alfa > Sauber > BMW > Sauber (1993)
Toro Rosso > Minardi (going to say 1986)
Racing Point > Force India > Spyker (lol) > Jordan (1991)
Haas (20...15?)

The Arrows bloodline died with Super Aguri, and proper Lotus went bust in the mid 90s as well. Shame.

[Lewis]

Frank will have died weeks ago and they're keeping it secret until any deal gets over the line.

[Disco]

Sauber, I thought there was another one.

We need to return to a point where F2 teams can realistically make the jump, I don't see another route back to proper grids (26 cars). If it means manufacturers have to try rather than just throwing in a big enough budget then so be it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't see why a few aren't trying to take Mercedes down a peg or two. I guess because it's really really hard and involves spending money.

It's a pity the VW empire doesn't have a go, they could enter as Porsche or Audi or whatever and piss their way to the front. No one cares about beating no one at Le Mans.

[Lewis]

Volkswagen got a massive return out of their Le Mans dominance, so wouldn't you go into Formula E if you wanted practical applications these days?

[Shindig]

In terms of last new teams I can think of, you had the triple threat of Caterham, Hispania and Virgin come in for 2010. Before that you had erm ... Stewart.

[Disco]

Volkswagen got a massive return out of their Le Mans dominance, so wouldn't you go into Formula E if you wanted practical applications these days?

Depends which alternative fuel you think is 'the future', nobody is buying electric cars in large numbers yet so at the moment hybrids are still more relevant. But, because they were caught being dirty cheaters VW have steered away from any series with even a whiff of ICE.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In terms of last new teams I can think of, you had the triple threat of Caterham, Hispania and Virgin come in for 2010. Before that you had erm ... Stewart.

People forget about Toyota, although generally speaking they are right to do so.

[Shindig]

Yeah, works teams like that tend to go under my radar. If they named it after the team principal, I'd remember it forever. Or if Nissan got in and built the car in Sunderland.

[Lewis]

Depends which alternative fuel you think is 'the future', nobody is buying electric cars in large numbers yet so at the moment hybrids are still more relevant. But, because they were caught being dirty cheaters VW have steered away from any series with even a whiff of ICE.

That would be covered by concentrating on the electric side of things, since they've pretty much cracked the conventional side of hybridisation by this point.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Do teams actually get much road R&D from F1? I thought for the most part it was just the world's most effective billboard.

[Lewis]

They must be, otherwise why would anyone other than Ferrari and rich tossers have anything to do with it?

[Disco]

Lots of stuff has made its way into road cars but it's hard to argue that it wouldn't have gotten there anyway, the benefit is people seeing you make a decent car. The image of Mercedes has changed massively over the last ten years, something which they themselves put down to the success of the F1 program.

[Disco]

Plus, if you're going to spend several hundred million on an R&D department you might as well hire a few drivers and get something other than the technology back from it. Mercedes reckon their F1 team is at almost zero actual cost these days so why wouldn't you?

[Lewis]

I don't think their image has changed except insofar as you can no longer offer bomb-proof reliability as a unique selling point. They always made fast (if not necessarily 'sporty') cars, so they've just followed everybody else in being able to chuck loads more power into most things whilst appealing to a newer (younger?) customer base willing and able to finance things. It's a bit tenuous to connect it directly to their Formula 1 success when it doesn't seem to have any effect on how other brands with shit racing efforts are perceived.

[Shindig]

Austria confirmed for 5th and 12th July. We're racing, lads. Verstappen to win both.

[phonics]

Watching this and Eddie Jordans accent is so weird he veers into sounding like a mixture of Dutch Schteve McClaren and Gunter Steiner.


https://youtu.be/rnIjQC08qKk?t=40

[SincereTheRebel]

Austria confirmed for 5th and 12th July. We're racing, lads. Verstappen to win both.

Are they going to race reverse circuit like Gran Turismo?

[Jimmy Floyd]

If they did that the dive downhill to a left hand turn 1 at about 300mph would cause deaths / you'd need front rights made out of teflon.

Reverse Silverstone would be boring enough to work. Reverse Interlagos is the dream, or reverse Monza.

[Shindig]

I'm going to guess not. That would require a surprising amount of modifications for safety.

[phonics]

So as I'm just hitting recomended videos on YouTube this one comes up between Toto and Lewis and I'm not sure whether I'm frustrated with the lack of information or I'd just never understand because I'm a low information observer. They talk about the car like a football player, Lewis is adamant that they weren't sandbagging and they say 'we made some tweaks and Lewis put it into a set-up that we didn't like but it showed the signs of unlocking potential, so we took that to our engineers and drilled down on it'.
(timestamped)

https://youtu.be/BHCxaYfqlJ4?t=1200

I'd love to know what they mean there, I play racing video games so I know about suspension adjustment etc. (even if I don't understand it and leave it on normal) but what is going on there?

edit: Toto says in 2012 their advertising 'real estate' was 70 million and now it's 4.5 billion. To me F1 hasn't grown that much between then and now, I wonder where it comes from.

[Disco]

Listened to this while I was mowing the weeds this morning, very interesting especially the last part where Brundle talks about driver input and the most balanced era.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ejFdKW83rg

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZXxCF_WsAEP0Q_?format=jpg

Who exactly is he calling out here? Should, say, Max Verstappen be releasing a detailed statement with his thoughts on the subject?

[Pepe]

I am also a bit wary of black people using this to say "look what we have to deal with!" As if a professor in an elite university (or Lewis Hamilton) have a life that is in any way similar to a poor kid from downtown Chicago.

[Shindig]

The Projects, Stevenage. He took his go kart to school and all the other kids made fun of him. Especially Nico.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Well, Charles Leclerc has put a statement out now so that should shake Donald Trump into action.

[Shindig]

https://f1i.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/EWZGvVHWsAUZIxY.jpg

A serious man for serious times.

[John Arne]

Confirmed calendar....

1267743256672174080

[Jimmy Floyd]

Well, Charles Leclerc has put a statement out now so that should shake Donald Trump into action.

They've all done it now, or loads of them have anyway. It's hilarious how much Hamilton lives in their heads.

[Disco]

Sets an interesting precedent, I wonder what will be said next time they go to China or Azerbaijan let alone Saudi in a couple of years.

[Shindig]

I'm warming to the idea of double-headers. Mainly for the alternative names they're giving them. It's like the old days when you'd get a customary European, Pacific or United States West Grand Prix.

[Disco]

Most of those still exist as long as you're willing to believe that Baku is in Europe.

[Jimmy Floyd]

'Styrian Grand Prix' is taking the piss a bit. Should have called it '1000 miles of Helmut Marko' or something and done it over 400 laps.

[Shindig]

It's an easier stretch than Nurburg being in Luxembourg.

[Disco]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6IkNpSWm_M

I hadn't remembered the beginning of 1999 being such a clusterfuck. This is chaos.

[Disco]

It went on for the whole race, nobody brought a car that worked properly (apart from Arrows who brought last years), race control sent the safety car out without telling anyone, even Schumacher was at it running through the pits without actually stopping.

[Shindig]

That was fun. Eddie Irvine's title charge starts now.

[Disco]

F1 should have done what NASCAR are doing (and have been for a month) and just gone to circuits a stones throw from all the factories. Thruxton, Mallory, Snetterton, Combe, both layouts of Silverstone, a bonus go round Rockingham, and a night race round the M25 as a finale. We could be almost done by now.

[Shindig]

Isn't everyone bar Haas and Ferrari based at Silverstone?

[Disco]

Only Racing Point, at the old Jordan place I think. The rest are in Oxford, Brackley, Milton Keynes, Banbury etc.

[Shindig]

The true price of no in-season testing. On an unrelated note, I've started reading Damon Hill's autobiography. I'm looking forward to the 1996 fallout and the early career stuff on bikes.

[Disco]

I'm downloading some more races and the newest game I've started playing is Guess the Sponsor.

The Blu Emu Maximum Pain Relief 500 is pretty self explanatory but I'm eager to find out what the Folds of Hono(u)r 500 is all about. I'm guessing the titular 'folds' are either something flag related or just a giant fat guy.

[Shindig]

I think it's another 'Salute the Troops' deal.

Ah, not quite: https://www.foldsofhonor.org/ SCHOLARSHIPS FOR KIDS, AND AMERICA!

[Disco]

You can't just look it up Shinners, that's cheating.

So far I reckon it's the 500 folds around the dead dead eyes of Kyle Busch.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Singapore, Japan and Baku are all cancelled. Looks like two races at Hockenheim will happen (I'm baaaack!) and maybe even one at Mugello.

I'm still all in on Snetterton and Castle Combe.

[Shindig]

Oooh, Mugello's nice. Not sure about the giant straight, though.

[Disco]

Long run to a fairly wide turn one, the start will be carnage.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The new Imola layout is just flat from the exit of Rivazza all the way up to Tamburello, take us there please.

[thommo]

Imola :drool:

Bit disappointing to see no Suzuka but I wont miss Baku or Singapore really.

[Shindig]

I totally missed that. It seems so obvious just to plonk a chicane on Tamburello, in retrospect. Oh, today we're getting the 2011 Canadian Grand Prix. The origin of the Vetteljob.

[Shindig]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/53115622

Oh, fuck. :(

[Pepe]

Shiiii :(

He is one of my favorite persons.

[Giggles]

If he hadn’t bad luck he’d have no luck at all.

[Disco]

I think he's trying to see how few body parts you really need to drive a car.

[Shindig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP3wrrQ30s0

His book is a lot of this and it's brilliant.

[Disco]

NASCAR driver and most appropriately named man ever, Bubba Wallace, has had a noose left in his garage during the Talladega meeting.

Nice place Alabama.

[SincereTheRebel]

His black half needs to 3D his white half with a name like Bubba

[Shindig]

Bubba acounts for 40 of the 47 starts by a black driver in the Cup series. That is still a mental stat.

[SincereTheRebel]

Bubba acounts for 40 of the 47 starts by a black driver in the Cup series. That is still a mental stat.

Is that like Lewis accounting for 250 of the 250 starts by a black driver in F1?