Euro 2024: The Knockouts

[ScousePig]

Excuses not needed, really. Just eyes.

My eyes tell me that Southgate has had more relative success than any other English manager in pretty much all our lifetimes. So do the facts, ironically.

He's lacking in tactical nous, and struggles with team selection and substitutions. He's clearly not an elite manager in this regard. Yet he's been England boss for eight years for a reason, and it clearly seems the players, the dynamics, the day to day stuff in general is pretty good.

He's not a genius, but there's no balance with some people.

[Yevrah]

The Turks absolutely love Football, so I'm not sure I agree with this particular take. It's just a shame that Germany steal most of their top players.

You can love football as much as you like, what I'm getting at is that if Turkey win tonight they'll have beaten a proper footballing nation (as in they have a history of being good). I think people underestimate how hard it is to do that two games running when you're a less successful nation.

[Dark Soldier]

Its almost as if you can only play who you're drawn against. Madness. The other seeds in our side all shitting it after seeing our dominance, makes sense.

[igor_balis]

It's not just us.

That is the "for you" section though.

[Pepe]

My eyes tell me that Southgate has had more relative success than any other English manager in pretty much all our lifetimes. So do the facts, ironically.

He's lacking in tactical nous, and struggles with team selection and substitutions. He's clearly not an elite manager in this regard. Yet he's been England boss for eight years for a reason, and it clearly seems the players, the dynamics, the day to day stuff in general is pretty good.

He's not a genius, but there's no balance with some people.

Some people want success (as in, reaching semifinals, apparently). Others would prefer entertainment. All that there is to understand, really. Yevrah wants to see their team play well. You are happy to see them reach a semifinal.

[niko_cee]

Before today's game:

Toggle Spoiler

Absolute filth. Probably even worse now after we clocked up 0.68 in 120 minutes today. Have it.

[Pepe]

Before today's game:

Toggle Spoiler

Absolute filth. Probably even worse now after we clocked up 0.68 in 120 minutes today. Have it.

[Spikey M]

That is the "for you" section though.

I barely tweet and I don't follow anything Football related outside of Southend and a few local Journalists.

[Manc]

Worked wonders for Croatia.

[Pepe]

The other seeds in our side all shitting it after seeing our dominance, makes sense.

Good point. Dominating even off the pitch. Savage.

[Yevrah]

Some people want success (as in, reaching semifinals, apparently). Others would prefer entertainment. All that there is to understand, really. Yevrah wants to see their team play well. You are happy to see them reach a semifinal.

That's true, but I'm also saying he wouldn't have this tournament record without the incredibly fortunate draws he's got. I mean, just look at them (as you did). It's ridiculous.

[Pepe]

That's true, but I'm also saying he wouldn't have this tournament record without the incredibly fortunate draws he's got. I mean, just look at them (as you did). It's ridiculous.

I would be surprised if they did, but we can never know for sure, I guess.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The difference between Turkey and all the bland nations we have played to date is that they would be bang up for it and have a crack, which I don't think we'd cope with.

Holland too, probably.

[Yevrah]

He's lacking in tactical nous, and struggles with team selection and substitutions

Just three absolutely fundamental areas of the game then.

[ScousePig]

So you don't think we've had a favourable draw? Or is it just that I annoy you?

It's not that you annoy me personally, you're a top poster. But your approach to Southgate is indicative of a society that can only deal in absolutes, and the public shaming Southgate has to deal with is uncalled for and unnecessary.

He's a limited manager insofar that he lacks tactical nous and flexibility in comparison to the top managers today, but he has other qualities that don't get recognised. As I say it always comes back to balance, and it irks me when people don't show it.

Sunderland appointed Michael Beale in December and duly sacked him in February when he clearly wasn't up to it. We appointed Mike Dodds as interim head coach for a few months so we could sort a proper replacement in the summer. He did very poorly and now the majority of Sunderland fans have decided that he's absolutely useless and should be nowhere near our club, when in actual fact he has a very good reputation as a coach, and will probably continue to do a good job as coach in the future. But the pitchforks are out, and mob mentality rules.

[Yevrah]

I would be surprised if they did, but we can never know for sure, I guess.

The only one we didn't reach a semi in we got France in the quarters. Compared to Switzerland, Ukraine and Sweden in the others. Doesn't mean we'd know for sure I agree, but just wanted to leave it there in case people had forgot.

[ScousePig]

Some people want success (as in, reaching semifinals, apparently). Others would prefer entertainment. All that there is to understand, really. Yevrah wants to see their team play well. You are happy to see them reach a semifinal.

I couldn't give a shit mate, I've never really been fussed about England.

[Pepe]

Fair enough. You just care about poor managers and how rough they have it.

Care to list those other areas he excel at, by the way? Genuinely interested to know.

[ScousePig]

Just three absolutely fundamental areas of the game then.

Yes, but they're not the ONLY areas of the game.

[Yevrah]

Sunderland appointed Michael Beale in December and duly sacked him in February when he clearly wasn't up to it. We appointed Mike Dodds as interim head coach for a few months so we could sort a proper replacement in the summer. He did very poorly and now the majority of Sunderland fans have decided that he's absolutely useless and should be nowhere near our club, when in actual fact he has a very good reputation as a coach, and will probably continue to do a good job as coach in the future. But the pitchforks are out, and mob mentality rules.

Well yeah, that's just retarded. Steve McClaren shitting it up for England didn't make him a bad Assistant Manager and Gary Neville being a bad manager doesn't make him a bad pundit.

[randomlegend]

My eyes tell me that Southgate has had more relative success than any other English manager in pretty much all our lifetimes. So do the facts, ironically.

He's lacking in tactical nous, and struggles with team selection and substitutions. He's clearly not an elite manager in this regard. Yet he's been England boss for eight years for a reason, and it clearly seems the players, the dynamics, the day to day stuff in general is pretty good.

He's not a genius, but there's no balance with some people.

He's a fucking cretin and the England players have achieved what they have in spite of him. With an even half competent manager they'd have done better than they have.

[Magic]

Just nipped for fuel for tomorrow's trip and TalkSport absolutely fawning over Bouthgate.

"20 more years, 20 more years" - that's meant to be a Nixon quote from the Simpsons or Futurama.

[Yevrah]

The difference between Turkey and all the bland nations we have played to date is that they would be bang up for it and have a crack, which I don't think we'd cope with.

You say this, but look how Switzerland went from giving it a massive go against Italy to not against us. It's a huge mentality hurdle to get over, doing it twice in a row, particularly when the second time would see you reach the final of a major tournament.

I'm not saying it's a guarantee we'd win, but Sir Gareth's luck Gods will be ensuring it's Turkey rather than Holland as a result.

[ScousePig]

Well yeah, that's just retarded. Steve McClaren shitting it up for England didn't make him a bad Assistant Manager and Gary Neville being a bad manager doesn't make him a bad pundit.

It is indeed, but it's just the way. If you have a skill, fine, it might get recognised every now and then. But God help you if you have a flaw...

[Yevrah]

Yes, but they're not the ONLY areas of the game.

I get that, but it's like being a prostitute and struggling with oral, vaginal and anal.

[randomlegend]

I get that, but it's like being a prostitute and struggling with oral, vaginal and anal.

What a post, fucking hell

[niko_cee]

[ScousePig]

Fair enough. You just care about poor managers and how rough they have it.

Care to list those other areas he excel at, by the way? Genuinely interested to know.

He seems to deal with controversy/the media pretty well, the dynamics of the squad seem strong, and he just appears to have led England pretty well off the pitch. On the pitch England look ponderous and imbalanced, yet to counter that the relative success has been good.

There's probably a slightly different role that would suit him to a tee. It's not all bad.

[Raoul Duke]

If you can't be good, be lucky.

If nothing else (aside from actually competing at every tournament since being appointed), overcoming the mental roadblock of penalties is a gigantic sea change in English football.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I get that, but it's like being a prostitute and struggling with oral, vaginal and anal.

She must make no money at all

Think of her children.

[Pleb]

Southgate new four year contract.

Two actually.

[ScousePig]

I get that, but it's like being a prostitute and struggling with oral, vaginal and anal.

No because that suggests he's poor at every aspect of being a manager, which doesn't appear to be the case.

Also lol.

[phonics]

It’s a bit cold, this games shit and the pub has just put on a Dolly Parton cover artist singer who’s bad. But I do have a pint of madri, the heart of espana. So it’s not all bad.

[niko_cee]

I would dispute the existence of 'relative success' in short-format / knock-out tournaments.

Success is winning. Part of that can be taking advantage of favourable situations that may arise, but in the end losing against what little meaningful opposition you face every time after embracing the pragmatic approach that England have isn't really success in my eyes. Hence the need to finally get over the line.

[Baz]

Yeah England have no right losing a penalty shootout for a while. There is at least four first-choice takers for their respective clubs, plus Trent, Watkins and a few others who aren’t shy for one. If Pickford saves one, England likely win the shootout.

[Shindig]

If you can't be good, be lucky.

If nothing else (aside from actually competing at every tournament since being appointed), overcoming the mental roadblock of penalties is a gigantic sea change in English football.

That and our heads don't drop when going behind.

[Pepe]

She could give mean handjobs.

Maybe this comparison is better than we initially thought.

[Adramelch]

You say this, but look how Switzerland went from giving it a massive go against Italy to not against us.

You're being a bit harsh on them I think. Yes they were passive in the first half but overall they definitely gave it a good go against you. Also while I understand your comparison between England and Italy, it should be noted that Italy are almost completely devoid of talent and you aren't, so that bit of extra caution was warranted.

[Yevrah]

Handjobs and general companionship. Maybe that's what Sir Gareth is doing.

[Magic]

She could give mean handjobs.

Maybe this comparison is better than we initially thought.

It would be a 93rd minute substitute after failed penetration.

[phonics]

Did trossard get knocked out and decide to take up the ref job?

[Jimmy Floyd]

This style of play is completely reliant on moments like Saka's finish or Bellingham's against Slovakia. You're taking a punt that at some point, divine intervention, in the form of individual talent, will be enough. It doesn't give the team a chance to actually play well.

[ScousePig]

I would dispute the existence of 'relative success' in short-format / knock-out tournaments.

Success is winning. Part of that can be taking advantage of favourable situations that may arise, but in the end losing against what little meaningful opposition you face every time after embracing the pragmatic approach that England have isn't really success in my eyes. Hence the need to finally get over the line.

By 'relative' I'm comparing him to other England managers. Even if Southgate has been lucky with the favourable draws, it's not really his fault is it?

He's done what most English managers tend to do: beat the shite and come a cropper against a fellow 'giant'. Just Southgate's taken his England sides deeper into the tournaments.

[ScousePig]

She could give mean handjobs.

Maybe this comparison is better than we initially thought.

Tit wanks, foot jobs, erm, armpit sex.

Southgate might be a legend of the unorthodox.

[ScousePig]

This style of play is completely reliant on moments like Saka's finish or Bellingham's against Slovakia. You're taking a punt that at some point, divine intervention, in the form of individual talent, will be enough. It doesn't give the team a chance to actually play well.

That was pretty much Mike Dodds' approach with Sunderland actually. Everyone keep it as simple as possible so as to eliminate mistakes, and get the ball to Jack Clarke.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Cracking header.

[ScousePig]

I'll tell you someone who does annoy me - Seb Hutchinson.

[7om]

The Netherlands are really capable of playing some good stuff when they step up a gear.

[niko_cee]

I worry that there are a few too many household names in this Holland side for us. It'll be like that Nations League semi where we should have battered them and somehow ended up losing.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Can't see Turkey coming back now.