The All New Jobs Thread

[Ian]

For fuck's sake, these guys get worse every time you talk about them. And not even giving you a long weekend after all this is a sign of people who couldn't give less of a shit if they work you to death.

I'd now suggest just going along with whatever this contract discussion is, start applying elsewhere and then when you go to hand in your notice if they talk about trying to keep you tell them they'll need to blow out of the water whichever offer it is you've planned to accept elsewhere. But honestly I'd just plan to get out as soon as you can because these cunts sound like the worst.

I was getting the piss taken out of me to a much lesser extent a couple.of jobs ago but eventually it's what drove me off and eventually changed from the last job to my current one too, which is by no means a dream job but the work-life balance is incredible. Don't settle for less just because these pricks want you to think you should.

[Lofty]

Pull the pin Jim, you could even really go against your sensibilities and change to an office job with union representation.

[Lofty]

For example, here in the grizzled north wasteland at my wife's haulage contractor spot (no bed of roses by any means but still) the foriegn speakers who work the international desk are working Monday to Friday 8-3 on 60k a year. Annual pay rise and christmas bonus guaranteed.

[Spikey M]

You haven't even been given the weekend(s) you missed while you were away? Holy fuck Jim. Just get out of there.

[Lewis]

He also revealed that he'd once been in a meeting where bosses had repeatedly cited my unmarried status as a good opportunity to get me on the road. I mean, lol.

However crap the rest of it is, this bit isn't actually unreasonable.

[Boydy]

I dunno, I think "you're not married so we're gonna get you to work loads of extra hours outside the normal hours without TOIL or extra pay" is pretty fucking unreasonable.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If you're working for MI6 in about 1958 it's reasonable, otherwise it isn't.

[Lewis]

I dunno, I think "you're not married so we're gonna get you to work loads of extra hours outside the normal hours without TOIL or extra pay" is pretty fucking unreasonable.

The issue there is not being paid extra and/or generally being taken for a chump, not that clocking he isn't married means that he might be able to do things outside of normal hours.

[Yevrah]

Jim, what is actually stopping you knocking up your CV and testing the waters on the open market?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Jim, what is actually stopping you knocking up your CV and testing the waters on the open market?

Nothing, I've done it today.

[Yevrah]

Great stuff. Good luck!

[Baz]

Today was the deadline to submit a plan on how I'm gonna spend £1m today (lol) which I've just sent.

I'm in next week, with no real urgency around anything, including a doss day in Liverpool on Wednesday and an all-day virtual conference (watching Cheltenham with my laptop on in the background, most likely) on Thursday, and then I'm off for 2 weeks.

Celebrating tonight with Chinese food.

Still need to find time to have this silly University Challenge 'I necknominated my mate bcoz I luv da sesh' video though.

[AyDee]

Baz's job sounds great.

Look at the life you could have, Jimmy.

[Ian]

Nothing, I've done it today.

Good man.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Had a chat with two of my colleagues at the end of the day and got some incredible juice. Apparently when the South Africans came over a few weeks back they slashed the pay of all the travelling sales guys - all except the Arab's dad, who upon being told his pay was being cut by 10%, told them that actually it was going to be raised by 5% or else he'd be off to work for our competitors the next morning. Out-chadded by him (not the first to experience this as the Parisian Burberry shop assistant will testify), they backed down and gave him what he wanted, which led to all the others coming back and also demanding improved terms, completely fucking their strategy.

They are now left in a complete mess with the rest of us having been promised commission markets which now aren't available, or only the very crappest ones are, which will lead to basically the whole office being in a similar position to me when told to travel.

Anyway, we've agreed that I'm going to go in Monday with a suicide vest on and say that I'm not travelling anywhere unless they raise my pay by a large, unnamed amount. Upon refusal I will then either resign or simply make their lives a nightmare by saying I'll stay on my current contract and do office work only.

I feel bad for the new sales director who is a really good guy, but unfortunately it's either I do this or we all get fucked.

[Ben]

Tremendous stuff.

[niko_cee]

Perhaps the pretend funerals wouldn't have been so bad after all.

[Spikey M]

Had a chat with two of my colleagues at the end of the day and got some incredible juice. Apparently when the South Africans came over a few weeks back they slashed the pay of all the travelling sales guys - all except the Arab's dad, who upon being told his pay was being cut by 10%, told them that actually it was going to be raised by 5% or else he'd be off to work for our competitors the next morning. Out-chadded by him (not the first to experience this as the Parisian Burberry shop assistant will testify), they backed down and gave him what he wanted, which led to all the others coming back and also demanding improved terms, completely fucking their strategy.

They are now left in a complete mess with the rest of us having been promised commission markets which now aren't available, or only the very crappest ones are, which will lead to basically the whole office being in a similar position to me when told to travel.

Anyway, we've agreed that I'm going to go in Monday with a suicide vest on and say that I'm not travelling anywhere unless they raise my pay by a large, unnamed amount. Upon refusal I will then either resign or simply make their lives a nightmare by saying I'll stay on my current contract and do office work only.

I feel bad for the new sales director who is a really good guy, but unfortunately it's either I do this or we all get fucked.

The place is fucked but you still have bills to pay, sort a new job before falling on your sword.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm alright for a bit, but yes ideally I won't actually have to can it. But one has to be prepared to do so.

[Lofty]

The arab's dad's face turn is amazing.

[Danny]

Arabs Dad smashed it there

[Pepe]

Couldn't you wait until the trip to Central America and then get a job in Nicaragua?

[Shindig]

Grab a canoe and some witnesses who know how to keep a secret, Jimmy.

[Ian]

Jimmy does your contract state anywhere "we may expect you to travel" or any such vaguely worded shit that if you say you're doing office only they can go "Erm, actually..."?

[Bernanke]

The Spain and South America trips were a riot but this time I'm really on the edge of my seat.

[randomlegend]

Christ you private sector lot are a right bunch of whinging fangitas.

[Baz]

Come to the public sector. All the cool kids like Spikey, Manc and Taz are loving life.

Well, except Spikey who's trying to get a gasman apprenticeship, but he's public facing.

Public Sector Office Job ftw.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Jimmy does your contract state anywhere "we may expect you to travel" or any such vaguely worded shit that if you say you're doing office only they can go "Erm, actually..."?

My contract says all kinds of dystopian stuff like you can't take more than one week off outside August. Most of it is ignored and I'd be signing a new contract to do this anyway.

[Ian]

Good. And it's just reassuring when anybody actually knows what their contract says because I've been astonished in my last few jobs how many people don't.

"They can't do that!!!" say the morons when a threat of less agreeable shifts looms, not realising that the contract says they can be asked to work all hours and weekends it's just there hasn't been a call for it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In people's experience here, is it the norm that you would get more money (whether built into salary or as stipend) to travel overseas (aside from covering expenses) and more still to travel intercontinental and/or to third world shitholes?

It's really hard to research this kind of thing.

[-james-]

Full time golf betting.

[Yevrah]

In people's experience here, is it the norm that you would get more money (whether built into salary or as stipend) to travel overseas (aside from covering expenses) and more still to travel intercontinental and/or to third world shitholes?

It's really hard to research this kind of thing.

I've no experience of this, but if there isn't a premium built into the salary as standard if your job involves spending a huge amount of time out of the country when there are a fuckton of equivalent positions where you don't then I'd be very surprised.

Have a look for international sales roles and see what the salary's are, but I'd put money on £35k taking the piss.

[Lewis]

Floyd, just ask for more basic money. If they make you do another dickhead trip to Val Verde, because they will obviously ask the younger man without kids or a nattering wife, just like I get the days out and overnights in my cossetted occupation, then at least you are getting a better salary. I think a few people here are being a bit cavalier about thinking you can push it beyond that and get x, y, and z in writing.

[Yevrah]

They're clearly the sort of company that won't just give people more money if they ask without leverage. If Jim has some then fine, but if he doesn't then the best way to get it is to secure another position. By which time whatever they counter offer will probably be irrelevant as he'll have found somewhere on the money he wants that's also a much better place to work.

[Lewis]

Yeah, but they do seem like the sort of company that will sooner just throw him an extra ten grand (say) than give him some special contract saying he doesn't have to travel further than x and if he does he can claim for y and get z when he comes home, with various future promises thrown in, which a couple of people seem to think he should be pushing for.

[Yevrah]

Yeah, but they do seem like the sort of company that will sooner just throw him an extra ten grand (say) than give him some special contract saying he doesn't have to travel further than x and if he does he can claim for y and get z when he comes home, with various future promises thrown in, which a couple of people seem to think he should be pushing for.

Yeah, that's never gonna happen, even a reasonable company wouldn't do it as it just isn't necessary if you are one.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Floyd, just ask for more basic money. If they make you do another dickhead trip to Val Verde, because they will obviously ask the younger man without kids or a nattering wife, just like I get the days out and overnights in my cossetted occupation, then at least you are getting a better salary. I think a few people here are being a bit cavalier about thinking you can push it beyond that and get x, y, and z in writing.

They want me to do (best indication is) 8-10 weeks a year in these places. To my mind that changes the job and warrants a massive salary bump. In their mind it means the same money and a little commission on top if I hit sales targets in certain territories via visiting them. Due to the fracas above, there are not going to be any lucrative territories available to me, only arse end Central American jungle republics, so it's nonsense.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah, but they do seem like the sort of company that will sooner just throw him an extra ten grand (say) than give him some special contract saying he doesn't have to travel further than x and if he does he can claim for y and get z when he comes home, with various future promises thrown in, which a couple of people seem to think he should be pushing for.

No, that kind of stuff is never going to happen. It's just about what consitutes getting paid properly for this kind of work.

[Lewis]

Yeah, so get the salary bump or leave. No need to complicate it with clauses and expenses and whatever.

[igor_balis]

I'd be prioritising getting the fuck out of there in the medium term, but yeah I think if Jim is willing to put up with it for a little while longer, it's probably better to just get more money. That seems more realistic, and even if they do give some concessions in the contract or whatever, they'll just find some other bullshit to make you do that you'll hate anyway .

[Giggles]

Whatever about salary, I wouldn’t be backing down on getting all the weekend work back as time owed. They’re most definitely breaking laws with the amount of hours expected.

[Dquincy]

Coming up to 16 years in July.

[Foe]

Jim, an industry standard of ours if overnight on a platform = £100+ a night pre tax. It varies quite a bit, some small vendors heavily incentivise staff to go offshore, for bigger players it’s not worthwhile.

Time off in lieu is, and should be, standard for most if not all companies.

Does your contract opt you out of the Geneva convention 48hr working week limit?

[Kikó]

I've no experience of this, but if there isn't a premium built into the salary as standard if your job involves spending a huge amount of time out of the country when there are a fuckton of equivalent positions where you don't then I'd be very surprised.

Have a look for international sales roles and see what the salary's are, but I'd put money on £35k taking the piss.

I was never paid more for travelling or being away but the standard was any flight over 5 hours = business and €50 a day expenses. But then my base salary wasn't £35k which I think is the biggest piss take considering the work they're asking you to do.

[Don]

Isn't the role an Account Manager? I don't wish to break free from the Jimmy Sympathy Club but £35k isn't exactly daylight robbery for such a role. And free business trips to whorehouse heaven, there'll be a queue of graduates happy to take it on.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think it's a pretty fair salary for the job it's for, which is sitting in the office organising everything, having 5 years knowledge and experience doing so (I started on 25), speaking languages, and being unbelievably reliable in every sense.

About £3 million of business goes across my desk each year and the company was sold for £12 million. There are 8 others who share the rest.

I think if you ask me to do that for 80% of the time and then go to Honduras for the other 20% and miss weekends, it's a fundamentally different job.

[Foe]

1. Enjoy your first day off in a month
2. Make sure your expenses (out of pocket) from the trip are covered before you kick up any fuss.
3. Be rational in your approach - which you are. You can set your expectations if that’s their expectations, and your expectations can be terms and financial if there’s are ability and willingness to put their interest first for 20% of the year.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I met the sales director.

He says they'll be kicking the old man out within 12 months, and after that I would (on current figures) be in line to earn £17k commission on top of my existing salary with this 8-10 weeks of travel per year.

He was really good about it but I'm not sure if that adds up. I now have a massive decision to make and about 1-2 days to make it, as the contract offer is coming apparently.

[Baz]

What I would say is that I worked for a firm very similar to the one you currently work for. It was all about doing free overtime, wages were screwed down as much as possible and everything was always done with a nod and a wink. “Next year will be your year.” It never fucking was.

Sounds like this.

[-james-]

8-10 weeks is fucking loads, no?