The reason they're isolating is to not pass on an infectious disease to vulnerable people. I don't know how you have Covid in a minor way when you are positive.
The reason they're isolating is to not pass on an infectious disease to vulnerable people. I don't know how you have Covid in a minor way when you are positive.
Yeah, the 'come back to work when your symptoms resolved' approach that the yanks are doing can't really work in healthcare. All you can do is test until you're all clear. Catch 22, basically.
Really? I hadn't worked that one out.Originally Posted by Kikó
And who do you think is more contagious? Someone coughing and spluttering all over the shop or someone who only knows they have it through a positive test? In any case, even if you don't let them in in a blanket fashion, you can look at the time they have to isolate for. We're already down to 7 days, the yanks 5.
These are all things we need to be thinking about as having 25%+ of a workforce off for as long as COVID is about is not sustainable.
Nothing really works in healthcare, look at the number of deaths from it already.
The replies to this one are superb.
I'm not sure I'd be all that happy if my vulnerable relative came into hospital and caught covid from a healthcare worker who'd tested positive 5 days ago.
He'll be PMing you in a minute asking if it's possible to set up a Yevrah only hospital where admissions are invite only. Where's your nearest Nightingale, Yev?
All remainer benders seething at young people exercising their freedom of movement rights.
Well of course not, no one has been happy with any of this situation.
And keep trying Shinners, you'll be funny again someday.
Better to be funny once, mate.
I don't think there's a lot you can do about staff absences really. Just have to ride it out.
It's easy to be flippant when it's not affecting you. Imagine your child with cancer on chemotherapy died of covid they caught off a staff member who was allowed to come back to work 5 days after testing positive. Because that's the reality.
Edit: sorry phone autocorrects covid to all caps, fixed.
My Gran slipped over last year and had to go into hospital, she caught COVID there and it killed her. So I'm not being flippant and it has affected me.
Theres going to be sob stories regardless of what happens.
With furlough gone, how many people are going to be actively testing or adhering to the guidelines if their income and/or future income is at risk? Its going to be one of those dont ask, dont tell scenarios.
Id imagine a good proportion of the 20-40 workforce will take their own choice.
No, you absolutely are being flippant. The fact your nan caught covid in hospital is shit, but it doesn't make it OK to massively increase that risk to patients by sending staff back to work so quickly.
Furlough was for businesses which closed down right? Not really anything to do with people being off sick with covid? None of what you've said really relates to NHS staff in any way.
My mistake if you were just making a separate point.
Exactly. In a pandemic there'll be individual examples of anything you could care to mention, but setting policy on those individual examples or possibilities is moronic, particularly if people are fucking the policies off anyway.
I think what Randrew means is that she was statistically more likely to be misdiagnosed/neglected to death than she was to be infected in hospital, so it's a bit of a stretch to blame the NHS in this case.
Whats your view of the end game instead?
Vaccines, variants etc causing a perpetual vaccination every 3-6 months and isolating until when?
Genuine query. I have no idea what the planned end game is anymore, because it feels as though we should be there already.
Original point wasnt about the NHS, RL, was more generic. I was more thinking about the gen pop of plumbers, trademsen, shop workers, delivery people etc.
If it increases the risk. We've been conditioned to see 10 days as this benchmark, but as I say that's now 7 here and 5 in the US. Albeit the US seem to clarifying that slightly.
And if I'm being flippant, you're being ludicrously emotive by rolling out kids with cancer. You should be looking at the increased risk of reducing the isolation time vs. the benefit that brings by having more staff on hand - instead you've gone straight for the emotional response.
One thing I've wondered is if Omicron opens the door for this to become a proper seasonal illness. Assuming it has picked up a common cold bit that allowed it to spread faster.
Claxon to alert serious point incoming - I don't blame the NHS, shit happens and she was obviously vulnerable to it at 92, but we need to move away from trying to save everyone from this (or claiming that we do) and work out what is best for society as a whole and follow that path. It's fucking shit and there will obviously be people that affects badly, but there are already - it's a shit situation.
That should definitely be the endgame in terms of treating it like one. We've got vaccines, we've got boosters, if people are still dying from it after that then there has to come a point when there's realistically no more that can be done. As shit as that is.
This is my big concern in Scotland. It feels as though sturgeon takes every death personally and feels its her duty to save everyone.
Claxon to alert serious point incoming - I don't blame the NHS, shit happens and she was obviously vulnerable to it at 92, but we need to move away from trying to save everyone from this (or claiming that we do) and work out what is best for society as a whole and follow that path. It's fucking shit and there will obviously be people that affects badly, but there are already - it's a shit situation.
Nah, its a shitty disease. People are going to die unfortunately. At some point you realise that and live with it. The provision and offering of a vaccine should really have been the end point of government taking any ownership of peoples health.
It won't be a few individual cases if you start sending back staff at 5 days.
No, I've gone for the reality. That is what will happen and it won't be the odd isolated case. Until there's VERY robust evidence people aren't infective at 5 days post diagnosis it would be a mental step to take.
Well if it isn't it shouldn't be done - I assumed you were looking for some form of solution or at least a discussion about one when you reiterated the issue with staff absences, maybe wrongly.
I was merely pointing out that all the whittering about how it's all fine and we don't need any restrictions because admissions/deaths aren't going up doesn't necessarily tell the whole story.
Whether restrictions are the answer or not, I don't know, I expect people are at a point where they won't follow them anyway. I strongly suspect sending healthcare staff back at 5 days would be disastrous but it's not something I'm mega-informed about and if there's evidence I'm wrong then I'd be glad to see it.
Last edited by randomlegend; 02-01-2022 at 06:24 PM.
Well, if we start using restrictions to manage the capability of NHS to cope in a post vaccine and booster World we're going to be stuck with this shit for longer than even I expected.
It's just a very difficult situation and I don't think there are any straightforward answers or necessarily a "right" thing to do.
True, but I think if there is a staff shortage in the NHS, which there obviously is, surely some money could be diverted from obsessively and (largely) pointlessly testing the general public to recruiting more doctors and nurses. Again, not easy either, but presumably very doable if you're ok with stealing them from abroad.
My own personal feeling is that with this latest variant perhaps we are reaching the point where we should start treating it more like every other nasty viral illness, but I'm not clever, informed or educated enough in the ways that matter to be takig such decisions.
I'm not sure there is a bountiful well of untapped staff in other countries ready to fill the gaps. Given how much we already draw on that resource, I suspect there isn't.
And post-vaccine is not that great when the vaccine we've all taken is tuned to Covid classic. It'll help curb hospital admissions but it won't stop people catching it and getting ill.
I wouldn't worry about that, it's a sound feeling and neither are a lot of the people actually making them anyway. Whallance's "The data from South Africa has been over-analysed" springs immediately to mind.
Very little stops people getting ill, we, as humans, get ill all the time. We seem to have forgotten that with COVID and if we're waiting for the perfect vaccine, well, good luck with that.
Wouldn't mind stuffing her haggis.
( the one on the right )
What would you choose if mass isolation of NHS staff meant there was a choice of having a staff member post 5 days covid or having not enough staff member there for the kid with cancer?
Covid was England's third biggest cause of death last month. Would it not be worth tackling that?
We have tackled it. Would you phrase the first two in terms of not having been tackled or are we just used to them so we're more accepting and realistic about it?
Reducing it too much risks going too far the other way and making it even worse, and they obviously feel seven days is the right balance with the current variant.
USA have five days, but their parameters are slightly different and I think our seven day is more or less in line with theirs.
More or less, by two days?
In more personal news, I've developed a sore throat today and feel quite run down, two days before going back into school. After only having Covid less than a month ago, I'm not quite sure what to do.
No, because their five days is from when you test positive, whereas ours is from when you developed symptoms.
I think.
Lateral flow it and let the line decide.
It would seem the obvious thing to do Shindig, but you're not supposed to test for 90 days unless you get symptoms. Is a sore throat a symptom?
Is there a breakdown of statistics on the number of people who die with high blood pressure, because, at this point it sort of feels a bit unfair comparing 'death stats'.
I guess we're very much two years in now and the initial, utilitarian, 'herd immunity' was still probably the right call, until the stats wankers were allowed to run amok with their modelling. Even had we hit the alleged levels of death, other than the massive tragedy that might have been at a personal level for people, it probably would have had a rejuvenating effect on society. Imagine culling off all of the over 75s in one fell swoop? Pension crisis over. Property crisis over. Like a forest fire.
As it is, we've got hundreds of thousands of dead anyway and an entirely broken society/economy. Good times.
How on earth has somone (Spikey) posted more in this thread than Yev?
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