Coronavirus Death Thread

[Jimmy Floyd]

The only detailed things I've read on the subject have suggested that the type of mutation required to make the virus vaccine-resistant would also cause it to become useless. I've not heard anything to the contrary other than the constant '...but there could be a vaccine-resistant mutation!!!' screeching which is used to justify the authoritarian/doomsday policies for which many need an excuse.

Delta is spreading like wildfire because it's ridiculously more transmissible, but it's still no match for vaccines. Vaccines, especially mRNA, are basically unbeatable.

[Yevrah]

It's just dawned on me that my approach to England winning something "it's very unlikely as I haven't seen it before" is the same as Fauci's in regard to whether the virus came from a lab or not.

[-james-]

The only detailed things I've read on the subject have suggested that the type of mutation required to make the virus vaccine-resistant would also cause it to become useless.

Got any links so I can quote this line verbatim next time I'm in the presence of someone having a meltdown?

I think it's the only thing worth shitting our pants over at this stage, and more cases -> more variants does seem quite logical, but it does also seem like pure conjecture.

[Jimmy Floyd]

More cases -> more variants is logical, but that's very different to more cases -> vaccine-resistant variants.

I can't begin to dredge up whatever I have read via twitter (3 or 4 times) on this but the basic logic behind it was that when you are vaccinated your immune system is being taught to 'remember' the pattern of the spike proteins (or protein spikes, whichever it is), so if the spike proteins were to change so markedly that they escaped the effect of the vaccination, then they would also have to have changed enough to render the virus a lot less virulent. Or something.

[Yevrah]

Let's ignore the last few weeks (and SCIENCE if we must) and say I've mostly dealt in logic throughout all of this. Even I would say virus mutation is not an area it should be applied to, so hit me the link too.

[Yevrah]

More cases -> more variants is logical, but that's very different to more cases -> vaccine-resistant variants.

I can't begin to dredge up whatever I have read via twitter (3 or 4 times) on this but the basic logic behind it was that when you are vaccinated your immune system is being taught to 'remember' the pattern of the spike proteins (or protein spikes, whichever it is), so if the spike proteins were to change so markedly that they escaped the effect of the vaccination, then they would also have to have changed enough to render the virus a lot less virulent. Or something.

Someone was also telling me over the weekend that even when antibodies are gone our bodies still remember some of the playbook for how to deal with shit we've experienced before.

That sounds logical, but not enough for me to die on a hill over it, so boffins, please correct it if it's horseshit.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The problem (as it has always been when it comes to SCIENCE meeting public discourse) is that a huge wall of 'We just don't know' - essential for good science but deathly for good public policy - is in the way.

[Magic]

Jimmy joining the plandemic club is quite something. Welcome, mate.

[Yevrah]

A month late I know, but Jon Stewart has been nicking my material.

I think we owe a great debt of gratitude to science. Science has in many ways helped ease the suffering of this pandemic — which was more than likely caused by science.

[7om]

Someone was also telling me over the weekend that even when antibodies are gone our bodies still remember some of the playbook for how to deal with shit we've experienced before.

That sounds logical, but not enough for me to die on a hill over it, so boffins, please correct it if it's horseshit.

Well antibodies are not the primary mechanism by which the body removes a virus. That’s why all the bollocks about waning antibody levels after X months is not meaningful. The body handles viruses via T cell immunity, a subset of which are called memory T cells and are activated once they come into contact with a virus which they’ve met before (previous infection or vaccination).

[Yevrah]

Jimmy joining the plandemic club is quite something. Welcome, mate.

Did I miss where you explained what you meant by Plandemic? I could guess, as others have, but that would be unfair.

[Magic]

He said 'boffins'.

[Magic]

Did I miss where you explained what you meant by Plandemic? I could guess, as others have, but that would be unfair.

It's just another one of my spectacular plays on words, such as novid.

[Yevrah]

Well antibodies are not the primary mechanism by which the body removes a virus. That’s why all the bollocks about waning antibody levels after X months is not meaningful. The body handles viruses via T cell immunity, a subset of which are called memory T cells and are activated once they come into contact with a virus which they’ve met before (previous infection or vaccination).

T cells, that was it. Cheers. Honestly, the more things you know about science (I know about three things now), the scarier the shit that's out there in the public domain becomes. 'We' are obsessed with antibodies, utterly fucking obsessed.

[Yevrah]

It's just another one of my spectacular plays on words, such as novid.

So it doesn't mean anything? I might as well read it as 'fish' when I see it?

[Ian]

Have you been looking for coherence in Magic's posts this whole time?

[Yevrah]

Have you been looking for coherence in Magic's posts this whole time?

Haha, I haven't. I just feel for the chap a bit now.

[Magic]

So it doesn't mean anything? I might as well read it as 'fish' when I see it?

No it does, I'm typing on a phone fucking delirious and can't be bothered answering you.

[Yevrah]

And now I feel less for you.

[Magic]

Oh no, my T cells are vibrating with that news.

[Yevrah]

I understand you're not well, but that's not my fault.

Well, it might be, but I have been at home for most of the last 16 months and followed rules better than a lot of people.

[Yevrah]

I was in Scotland in September....

[Yevrah]

When was the last WDYTOE? We should do one.

[7om]

No it does, I'm typing on a phone fucking delirious and can't be bothered answering you.

Do us all a favour and log out then, you pleb.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Sister's carer has got an official positive result from her PCR test. We've all had negatives from lateral flows though.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I understand you're not well, but that's not my fault.

Well, it might be, but I have been at home for most of the last 16 months and followed rules better than a lot of people.

He's not been well for most of his life.

[Offshore Toon]

REEElirious.

[Spikey M]

Mahow bowling stones in glass houses.

[Magic]

How's your carer How.

[randomlegend]

More cases -> more variants is logical, but that's very different to more cases -> vaccine-resistant variants.

I can't begin to dredge up whatever I have read via twitter (3 or 4 times) on this but the basic logic behind it was that when you are vaccinated your immune system is being taught to 'remember' the pattern of the spike proteins (or protein spikes, whichever it is), so if the spike proteins were to change so markedly that they escaped the effect of the vaccination, then they would also have to have changed enough to render the virus a lot less virulent. Or something.

I posted this exact thing in this thread about a year ago. The problem is nobody knows if it's actually true.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Mahow bowling stones in glass houses.

I don't know why more people don't do it. It's a lot of fun.

[Yevrah]

We definitely need a WDYTOE. Which are words I've never said or thought I would before.

I'll get on it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I posted this exact thing in this thread about a year ago. The problem is nobody knows if it's actually true.

Well, it has been true so far...

[randomlegend]

Well, it has been true so far...

[Jimmy Floyd]

Of the bajillion variants and mutations so far, none has a) become prevalent and b) escaped vaccines.

So it's true to date. Been a while since those vaccines started going in arms, too.

[randomlegend]

Of the billions of coronavirus mutations, none have caused a worldwide pandemic which has killed millions of people. Until this one did.

[Jimmy Floyd]

And until that happened we lived happily and were able to go to museums and eat fish indoors. Many want those banned now.

[Spikey M]

Someone wants some more easter eggs next spring.

[randomlegend]

And again, I'm not saying which approach (opening up now or not) is right or wrong now. I know enough to know I don't know enough to judge. I just take issue with people going around like they know better and everyone with a different viewpoint (particularly people who are dramatically more knowledgeable about the subject) are stupid or dangerous.

We have had a few million years of data to know the likelihood of dangerous novel coronavirus' emerging. We have essentially no data on whether or not this type of virus could mutate to evade this type of vaccine. That's why "the scientists" are cautious. You are welcome to disagree and think it's worth taking the risk (despite not knowing what the risk is) but acting like they are crackpots is just monumentally ignorant.

[Spikey M]

Magic must be really ill to be letting all this slide.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not acting like they are crackpots. I'm acting like their approach is unsuitable in the formation of public policy. Because it is.

[Pepe]

Anyone looking for some sense should just go here:

https://thezvi.wordpress.com/

[randomlegend]

I'm not acting like they are crackpots. I'm acting like their approach is unsuitable in the formation of public policy. Because it is.

By which you mean you don't like what their approach would mean given someone can't put an exact figure on what the risk is.

If the risk of a vaccine-avoiding and highly virulent varient emerging was 100% (it could be, who knows), I'd imagine you'd accept their approach was reasonable. But you (and nobody else) knows what the risk is, so how can you judge whether the approach is unsuitable?

[randomlegend]

And I'm not saying we just put scientists in charge and do everything they say. Just that perhaps it's worth listening to the people who've spent their lives studying this sort of thing and taking into account why they are saying what they are rather than just writing it off as "bullshit".

[Spikey M]

If the risk is 100%, then "let the bodies pile high" was the correct approach.

[Yevrah]

Of the billions of coronavirus mutations, none have caused a worldwide pandemic which has killed millions of people. Until this one did.

When you put it like that it's an even stronger argument as to where this came from.

[randomlegend]

That's the same argument as creationists use lol

[Yevrah]

And I'm not saying we just put scientists in charge and do everything they say. Just that perhaps it's worth listening to the people who've spent their lives studying this sort of thing and taking into account why they are saying what they are rather than just writing it off as "bullshit".

It's absolutely worth listening to them, to the point they start suggesting things that are practically unworkable, which for many of them, happened ages ago.

Honestly, my close the borders last year (which ironically almost all of them didn't support...) would have been easier to implement/done less damage than many of the things being suggested today...

[Yevrah]

That's the same argument as creationists use lol

Well it turns out Fauci and I use the same thought processes, but I'd have to ask him first if he's happy being in their company.

[Yevrah]

And of course, the best argument for it not coming from a lab would be if someone could prove where it did come from, which has so far taken far longer than SARS and MERS combined to do and we still haven't managed it....