I didn't say it was, but your argument for not paying nurses more is that they don't generate a profit. Well neither did these people, but you want to help them.Originally Posted by Spikey M
I didn't say it was, but your argument for not paying nurses more is that they don't generate a profit. Well neither did these people, but you want to help them.
My argument is that there is no money to. If a company generates profit it is good practice to pay your employees more money. If they don't turn a profit, then it isn't.
That's completely removed from the idea that we should help those that are struggling in society. Or, it should be, but when people are prioritising a pay rise for people who have had a bad year over stopping people going bankrupt through no fault of their own, I guess it isn't.
If any given year was a comparatively quiet one for hospitals would it be fair to reduce pay?
Irrelevant argument given it will never happen.
Matt Hancock has been busy. He'll deserve the 10% raise coming his way.
Excluding the vaccine stuff, for which you were earning well above your usual rate, have you done more or less work than you normally would have done this year?
Have Unison had permission from the official clap woman for this?
This first paragraph is the key. Public sector pay was hammered during the wasted years of austerity. They've had an increase over the last couple of years, but nothing to catch up compared to pay freezes during years when inflation was as high as 3%. It's projected as 0.6% for 2021, and I have no idea if that 1% raise is plus inflation or not. Either way, they're well behind what they were earning a decade ago, whilst the wealth gap increases regardless of a pandemic.
It would be a good time to push them back toward the mean, after they've just had a year in which they'll feel like they've failed at their jobs, with many on the brink mentally, but instead their government are giving them the two fingers. Top work, cunts.
Is this one of those situations where they were pressured into announcing a rise from unions? Any rise would've wound them up. Announcing nothing would've been better for the time being. I've noticed any nurse asking for support of the strike on social media gets shouted to death by the many, many people who are either on furlough, out of work or anybody that's had to lay people off in the last year.
The public sector as a whole has probably reverted to something like the mean over the decade. The pension is still really good (if not outrageous like the old scheme), you get discounts in sex shops, and you can't put a price on being virtually unsackable. They should have wider pay bands (and actually use them) to reflect that not every grade job is the same, but generally speaking none of us can moan. Me especially. I've had half the year off.
I personally have done less, but my circumstances are pretty unique and I'm not asking for a payrise.
Actually tbh when you take into account for covering all the people who were redeployed away from paeds, there's probably not a lot in it.
Last edited by randomlegend; 05-03-2021 at 06:25 PM.
Taking money out of nurses' pockets.
I just love this country.
You don't love Scotland?
Old pensions were definitely outrageous, and obviously were all brought in line just in time for our generation to be further bled dry (housing, lower wages relative to expenditure/inflation etc). Wages in general are too low imo. I'm fortunate and earn good money, but am a working class lad and see a lot of people who can afford to pay there bills and not a lot else. A single nurse on 25k would be in this bracket. Go to work, watch a load of people die, go home and cry into the Pot Noodle whilst ignoring the landlord. There's enough to go round and people in such positions in which they sacrifice so much should be able to buy a decent house and a decent car, go the pub on the weekend and holiday to somewhere south of Dover, but they can't afford life's simple pleasures and it's not on. It's why a load of them quit or off themselves.
They need to be dragged up to an acceptable rate and then given inflation every year.
Isn't it everything but wages the issue there? A lot of actual stuff has never been cheaper (or at least better value), but then you get bummed on taxes and housing.
Maybe. Pensions don't matter til you're nearly dead, so less so them, and I have no real problems with tax and think it's structured relatively sensibly, bar the breaks at the top.
My issues are deeper rooted than that and more difficult to solve. One of wages or housing needs to give in a big way to provide a lot of working class people what they deserve from life (a bit of fucking happiness).
There is a definite problem with wages in this country, but there is a far deeper problem with our relationship with debt and complete inability to manage money / priorities.
I deal with it every day and the issue is pretty much split down the middle. People don't have enough money to make ends meet, but they still have Sky TV, XBox memberships and David Lloyd memberships. They're paying their rent and food shopping on credit cards and dressing their kids via their Store Cards.
Then come the Debt Relief Orders / IVA's.
The whole system is a debt trap. It's completely unsustainable.
You would have to say housing, since widespread wage increases would just make that more expensive under the current arrangements. Alternatively, what about three per cent mortgages?
With reduced rates and spread out over 50 years, maybe. 18-years-old, small deposit, pay it your entire working career at about £250/300 a month. Maybe cut council tax as well, actually. Make actually living under a roof more affordable.
Yep. Some people just cannot hit reverse. Even worse are ones waiting for something or someone to bail them out. "If I just do this or this happens, I'll be fine, etc."
At that point it would have to all be subsidised to the point of ownership being a worthless proposition, and then you're back to the council house/rental purgatory that people lived in back in the day.
I don't think it's a resolution and don't think it would work. But that's where the bar is for a single person on 20k to live comfortably alone, which they should be able to if they're working 40 hours a week or whatever. Otherwise it's not a living wage and the whole system is bollocks.
But if we can't bring property prices down, then wages need to come up. Because the money is certainly out there for that to happen, just in the wrong places and where, to be frank, it isn't required to better society whatsoever.
In Switzerland, mortgages are done over 100 years so technically you never own the place but it keeps payments affordable.
Shadow chancellor agrees that nurses should receive a 12% pay rise. Shock horror...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-56288548
President Jair Bolsonaro has told Brazilians to "stop whining" about Covid-19, as he criticised measures to curb the virus despite a surge in cases and deaths.
His comments came a day after Brazil saw a record rise in deaths over a 24-hour period.
Brazil is facing its worst phase of the pandemic yet, leaving its health system in crisis.
"Stop whining. How long are you going to keep crying about it?" Mr Bolsonaro said at an event. "How much longer will you stay at home and close everything? No one can stand it anymore. We regret the deaths, again, but we need a solution."
lol, a glimpse at Magic ruling a country.
The whole world should be Madagascaring them. Mental.
I'd well sacrifice the likes of How so me and Taz could frequent club saunas.
As your therapist, I must congratulate you on this big step to conquering your social anxiety.
And Shinners.
Not really a sauna bloke but I'll be damned if I'm spending two weeks off work sitting at home.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56278809
Heh.
Last edited by Shindig; 06-03-2021 at 11:36 AM.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56301981
"NHS pay: 'Undervalued' nurses may quit over 1% rise - union"
I couldn't afford to quit my job just because I was upset about a 1% rise, so I can only assume they're not that hard up.
Well no, they won't be when they get a gig stacking shelves in Aldi.
This canonisation of healthcare professionals that occurred during all this was always going to be a double-edged sword, wasn't it? The nation (or at least the media) decided to collectively elevate them all to the status of angels walking amongst us. Imagine then trading off on that to try and emotionally blackmail the country into a massive pay-rise while the economy struggles and a great many people around you have lost everything? Fucking grow up.
People are grateful, but fucking hell. "Stay home, protect the NHS!". Yes, we did that. For quite a long time. And it hasn't collapsed, which is great. The economic downside of which is we can't really afford a lot right now. It's a shame that same spirit of "let's all pull together" doesn't extent to maybe "pulling together" through to ensuing financial hardship and delaying your demands for a fucking 12.5% pay-rise until such a time when we have begun to recover.
I'll tell you who's not up in arms about "only" being offered a 1% pay-rise at the moment. The people who don't have jobs at all anymore on the back of this entire situation. They have more pressing concerns, like "how will I make my next mortgage payment" and "can I still provide for my family". Trivial shit like that.
Classic Tories splitting the nation and putting them against the blessed nurses so they can nationalise our NHS. 4D chess again.
They won a landslide in 2019 with a mandate to sell it to Donald Trump, so hopefully they can still do a deal with his successor.
Positivity rate of 0.6% That might as well be zero.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/m...-soars-35.htmlBritain's billionaires had amassed a combined fortune of £156.6billion at the end of July, according to the annual Billionaires Insights Report from UBS. This is up 34.7 per cent from £116.6billion the previous year.
Just putting this here for any of this "we can't afford it" nonsense.
You can afford anything if you want to (see furlough). They don't want to. Their critics from a certain space would say it's because they're heartless fatcats etc etc lefty cliché. Personally I think it's about 15% that and 85% pragmatism because a shit ton of private sector workers are about to be laid off when furlough finally ends and they don't want to create a visible divide between that and generous public sector pay rises.
The 2020 billionaire gains are largely down to all the borrowing/money printing shitting the system to pieces.
I find it hilarious the general attitude seems to be that people think they were staying at home for the benefit of NHS workers, rather than for the people who would have died.
What about all the people that are about to die from all the other stuff?
You're going to have to be a bit more specific than that.
Says the healthcare professional.
You've clearly got him on the ropes, Magic...
Of course we were doing it for the people that otherwise would have died. Do you think the entire country is the under the impression that we brought the economy grinding to halt purely to wrap you lot up in cottonwool and lighten the NHS's workload? The general public are not all fucking idiots, regardless of your obvious distain for them, which seems to be seeping out of you increasingly with every passing week. But I do deal with the general public a lot in my job too, so I can sympathise with you to some extent on that. It comes and goes.
Although the lack of bodies piling up in the hallways does indirectly benefit you to some extent too, doesn't it? That may not have been the main intent but it doesn't stop it being true.
The reason behind why we did it doesn't really have any impact on my overall point either, anyway. It all happened in the spirit of pulling together to get through the current situation. We did it, it's done, we're skint and still very much in a shit situation. Ergo no 12.5% pay-rise. So they'll have to just pull together with us through that bit of it too. Or pack it in and go try their luck in the current job market. That is the general point I was making.
Except those fucking cunts who were furloughed. They should be docked the amount they were paid.
I hadn't even considered it the remotest possibility until both you and Spikey seemed to express exactly that opinion in this thread.
I don't have disdain for the "general public", whoever they may be.
Quotation marks. Nice. That'll endear you to the common man.
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