The Ultimate WWE Thread

[7om]

Sounds like they're setting up a "someone save WWE before Cena leaves with the title" story for the rest of the year after.

Surely you can't waste this kind of heel turn and not have BMJ win.

And who’s that going to be? Cody… and? The lack of star power in the company is startling. There’s hope on the horizon with Jacob Fatu, Bron Breakker, Dominic Mysterio etc but they’re not there yet.

[Waffdon]

1913343438621430120


Steiner maths :cool:

[7om]

Bron :cool:

He’s got star written all over him.

[Ben]

Dirty Dom is winning that right?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That's who I've got.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Stand & Deliver Predictions

NXT Championship Triple Threat Match: Oba Femi vs. Trick Williams vs. Je’Von Evans

I think we get heel Trick Willy with him revealed as the Darkstate leader which I think is a bit shit as Darkstate look pretty crap.

NXT Women’s Championship Fatal 4-Way: Stephanie Vaquer vs. Giulia vs. Jordynne Grace vs. Jaida Parker

It's a straight shootout between Steph and Giulia for me and whilst it may be a little too early for Vaquer to lose her title I think they did Giulia right with her return so I think they'll put the title back on her to set up a singles match down the line.

NXT North American Championship: Ricky Saints vs. Ethan Page

Way too early for Ricky to lose his title.

NXT Women’s North American Championship Ladder Match (Zaria, Kelani Jordan, Sol Ruca, Izzi Dame, Lola Vice, and Thea Hail)

I really want Sol Ruca (her finisher is so cool) or Thea Hail to win but I think Lola Vice takes it

NXT Tag Team Championship: Fraxiom vs. Hank Walker & Tank Ledger

This is the toughest match on the card to call for me. Fraxiom are amazing and probably should be on the main roster. They seem to be overlooking Hank and Tank (but they've done that to a lot of tag teams) and Hank and Tank also have had a story and a PATH lately which I think has been a build to setting them up to win the titles.

Six-Man Tag Team Match: The D’Angelo Family vs. DarkState

Yawn. This shouldn't be an issue. Only interesting thing would be "Stacks" turning on Tony and breaking up the family.

Mania predictions to follow.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

WWE WrestleMania 41 Night 1 match card

CM Punk vs. Roman Reigns vs. Seth Rollins

Can't see Rollins winning and I think Punk with some Heyman makes the most sense.

World Heavyweight Championship -- Gunther (c) vs. Jey Uso

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, it's going to happen and I still fucking can't believe it.

WWE Women's Championship -- Tiffany Stratton (c) vs. Charlotte Flair

I thought this was going to be a slam dunk but I'm a little less sure now. I still think they have Charlotte take it though just because it's fucking Charlotte.

United States Championship -- LA Knight (c) vs. Jacob Fatu

LA Knight has been a bit crap as the champ and Fatu deserves a championship.

World Tag Team Championship -- War Raiders (c) vs. New Day

Heel Day need it.

Jade Cargill vs. Naomi

Piss break.

Rey Mysterio vs. El Grande Americano

Awesome to see El Grande get a Mania match but it's a travesty that Gable can't get one.

WWE WrestleMania 41 Night 2 match card

Undisputed WWE Championship -- Cody Rhodes (c) vs. John Cena

Give him the record and the heel turn cemented it.

Women's World Championship -- Iyo Sky (c) vs. Rhea Ripley vs. Bianca Belair

I'd rather have Iyo retain but I can't see it.

Intercontinental Championship -- Bron Breakker (c) vs. Finn Balor vs. Penta vs. Dominik Mysterio

Leads to the Judgement Day breaking down. Only other I can see winning is Penta but it makes a lot less sense than Dirty Dom.

Women's Tag Team Championship -- Liv Morgan & Raquel Rodriguez vs. Bayley & Lyra Valkyria

Yeah whatever.

AJ Styles vs. Logan Paul

I'd rather have had AJ v Karrion but this match should still be good. I assume Karrion gets involved somehow.

Drew McIntyre vs. Damian Priest (Sin City Street Fight)

Get Drew back in the title scene please.

Randy Orton's open challenge

I've heard rumours it could be a Rusev day but surely Randy wins whoever it is.

[Waffdon]

It looks like Rey got injured last night. Do the right thing and move the TLC match to tonight

[Gray Fox]

Night 1:

Gunnther v Yeet. - I have this as opening the show because Yeet man is winning. If it goes on later I would be tempted to change that result, but they had him promise that he was winning so I think this gives us our "hot start"

War Raiders v New Day - With this being Mania, I could see Big E costing the New Day lads here, but as I dont think he is/ever will be cleared, there would never be a pay off down the line.

Jade v Naomi - The Jade attack angle became pointless the second they made it not be Bianca. Jade needs to win and look good doing it here.

El Grande Americano v ??? - No idea what they do here if Rey can't go. Rey was surely winning too. You could still get E.G.A involved in the show by telling him he's now facing Chad Gable and see how that plays out.

LA Knight v Jacob Fatu - I LOVE YOU SOLO. Knight has outstayed his welcome towards the top of the card. Not a great worker and Fatu should go over very cleanly here. No Temu Bloodline please.

Stiffy Time v Charlottewinslol - This is me having faith in doing the right thing. Charlotte gains nothing by winning. Tiffy gains some good legitimacy as they insist that Charlotte is their top woman. Since the the famous promo, it seems to me both seem to be working together a bit better than being catty about it. There's also a lot of title changes potentially happening, so we need some retains. Everyone holding from Mania to Mania becomes boring quickly.

Roman v Rollins v Punk - By the same logic I wonder who has the most to gain from winning here. That's likely Punk. He can use it to springboard into the title picture after. I'd love there to be some good Heyman shenanigans involved here. Perhaps even turning more than once during the match. This is going on for a good hour so why not?
I reckon we see a moment where Heyman throws a weapon and it falls in the middle of Reigns and Punk. We then get the whole "who did he mean to throw it to?"

Night 2:


Liv Morgan and friend v Bayley/Lyra - I imagine this sets up a Lyra and Bayley feud moving forwards.

AJ Styles v Logan Paul - Does anyone really care here? Sad part is this could genuinely be his last Mania.

Ripley v Bianca v Iyo - The build for this has been bad. I dont really care for this either. Though Iyo should be winning this.

Bron v Penta v Dom v Balor - Dom needs this win. I also reckon he wins by pinning Balor after he takes a spear/whatever Pentas finisher is. Bron then goes on to bigger and better things.

Drew v Preist - Again who really cares for this? We all know Drew should be doing better things.

Randy v ??? - Now this could be a way to get Chad Gable on the show. I think it's too soon for the return of Rusev or Black. Needs to be a one off type match. Randy wins and then shakes the hand of whoever he faces, before then hitting the RKO and walking off.

Cody v Cena - I hope this doesnt go on longer than it needs to but I think it will. I cant see it being as sport entertainmenty as last year. Who knows if Dwayne can take a day out of his busy schedule to show up.
This is the biggest heel turn in the last 20 years or so, so Cena has to win this.

[wullie]

Gunther vs. Jey Uso - as it's opening the show they'll start energetic to get people excited, he'll also be first out on the Raw as well
War Raiders vs New Day - they've been treading water a bit which I'd like to think is stalling for Big E being cleared but probably just rubbish booking
Rey Mysterio vs. El Grande Americano - Rey if he's actually there, otherwise no idea. Ideally it finishes with Grande Americano being unmasked to reveal it's actually Shane McMahon
Jade Cargill vs. Naomi - if this was on after the triple threat I'd have had Bianca revealing she was in on it as well
LA Knight vs. Jacob Fatu - surely
Tiffany Stratton vs. Charlotte Flair
Roman Reigns vs. CM Punk vs. Seth Rollins - Punk to climb and retrieve Heyman from the pole

Iyo Sky vs. Bianca Belair vs. Rhea Ripley - Oddest build for this, should be that Iyo smashes fuck out of them both in 90 seconds
Liv Morgan and Raquel Rodriguez vs. Bayley and Lyra Valkyria
AJ Styles vs. Logan Paul
Bron Breakker vs. Penta vs. Finn Bálor vs. Dominik Mysterio - Dom beats Balor to carry on whatever they're doing, Bron moves up
Damian Priest vs. Drew McIntyre - Priest is alright outside of this but they could have added Drew to the night one main event and not even had to explain it too much
Randy Orton vs. TBA - If it's Solo Sikoa listen out for the sound of the life leaving a giant stadium.
Cody Rhodes vs. John Cena - Could see this being like the fun nonsense last year except Austin finally turns up to get the Rock this time

[Shindig]

Just stick Dom in a Rey mask and see if the marks realise. :uhoh:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

It definitely wont be Black taking on Randy Orton.

His latest promo said he's coming on the Smackdown after Mania.

Could possibly be Aldis but meh, Solo Sikoa fuck no, Omos was pissing about in Japan won some tag titles and relinquished as he said he's coming back to the WWE lol.

Other than that maybe someone from NXT gets called up that way or maybe someone from TNA? Say his name?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Also, what the fuck is going on with Roxanne Perez?


I thought they were going to do her v Bayley at Mania for a while as they were building up to that match and then they dropped the feud completely.

Now she's on the Stand & Deliver pre-show with Cora Jade in a fatal fourway number 1 contenders tag match.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1913469072123011576

:lol:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

NXT Stand & Deliver at 6pm tonight (just under 20 minutes) on Netflix.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1913682316716540214

:lol:

That match was brilliant.

[Gray Fox]

Yeah that was pretty good.

[Waffdon]

Evans is the best athlete I think I’ve ever seen in wrestling. He’s a freak

[Waffdon]

Just found out he’s 20. Fucking hell

[Ben]

Hulk Hogan: "I moved in next door to him (Vince McMahon) in Connecticut and taught him all about lifting weights and riding motorcycles and partying like a madman. And then I taught him about the wrestling business and making money.”

:cool:

[Waffdon]

WWE have taken over AAA. NJPW next :lol:

[Gray Fox]

Rey Mysterio can't go, but Rey Fenix is taking his place. El Grande Americano taking the L either way.

[phonics]

The equivalent would be NOAH.

[Waffdon]

The Rock wasn’t referencing NOAH on his Instagram randomly

[Waffdon]

Rey Mysterio can't go, but Rey Fenix is taking his place. El Grande Americano taking the L either way.

Much better match up but they’ll probably be given 5 mins as we will need enough time for video packages and entrances.

[Pleb]

lol what :D

Survivor Series? :D

[Waffdon]

Christ, he is so so so bad. One of the worst champions you’ll ever see.

Gunther tapped after 2 seconds lmao

[Dark Soldier]

He's so over nobody gives a fuck bout you sweaty melons YEET

[Gray Fox]

I can't believe they had that shitshow tap Gunther out.

[Gray Fox]

Looks like we're getting Kittle interfering rather than Big E then.

[Waffdon]

This just feels like a Saudi event or something. Can barely hear the crowd but they hardly look animated. Wasn’t even like the stadium was going mental ‘yeeting’ either. Every single match tonight until the last two would be lucky to get time on Raw or Smackdown. Even then, the triple threat is will probably be dreadful unless there’s weapons etc involved

How the fuck are these gimps on the show but the TLC match for the other tag titles isn’t after a good solid 2/3 month build lmao

[Pleb]

Someone has played too much myGM on 2k25 booking this shit.

[Gray Fox]

What the fuck is this so far?

[Dark Soldier]

What the fuck is this so far?

Its great so far

[Waffdon]

What the fuck is this so far?

It’s so bad. HHH has completely ruined the company in the past few months. They couldn’t have had an easier build to make this ‘mania incredible and it’s just been miserable

[Gray Fox]

Comes to something when Cargill is looking the best of anyone so far tonight.

Crowd is either very dead or they've done the sound shit.

[Gray Fox]

If they make Jacob Fatu look shit now then you might as well call the rest of the event off.

[Waffdon]

Definitely a bit of both.

I see they’ve written Bayley out of the match tomorrow (presumably for Becky lynch to return). Remember the build up for Roxanne and Bayley? Was looking good and then it was just dropped for no reason. Roxanne went from 2nd in RR, competing at the Chamber to now being back in NXT full time. Was on the pre show earlier and now looks to be setting up a feud for the title again

[Waffdon]

If they make Jacob Fatu look shit now then you might as well call the rest of the event off.

In before a Brawn appearance after the bloodline make an appearance. Like the last 2 months on Smackdown

[Pleb]

Comes to something when Cargill is looking the best of anyone so far tonight.

Crowd is either very dead or they've done the sound shit.
I think it's a mixture of both.

[Gray Fox]

Fatu :cool:

[Pleb]

Fucking push him to the moon.

[Pleb]

Business has just picked up :D

[Gray Fox]

Great to see a young and upcoming star like El Grande Americano being booked strong.

[Waffdon]

Only 2 matches left after just over 2 hours and at least 30 mins has been filler or entrances. But obviously couldn’t have that TLC match here whatsoever

[Gray Fox]

Time for them to make up the attendance though. Not even close lads.

Got to put aside an hour for the triple threat and another 30 mins for entrances

[Gray Fox]

Not even giving her the champs entrance. Christ.

[Waffdon]

How have they let Charlotte come out second? :D

Another torn ACL pls

[Waffdon]

Time for them to make up the attendance though. Not even close lads.

Got to put aside an hour for the triple threat and another 30 mins for entrances

I mean, it’s only 60k and looks completely full.

[Dark Soldier]

is this tiffany on a lot then

[Gray Fox]

I mean, it’s only 60k and looks completely full.

They hadn't even sold 50k less than a week ago for night 1. Not a chance.

They're going to have Tiffy tap out here too. Sickening.

[Gray Fox]

is this tiffany on a lot then

She's still a bit green. Only 25 mind you(14 years younger than Charlotte). She's the hot new up and coming thing though.

[Waffdon]

Every match has been shit, short or sloppy. No chemistry between anyone. Staying up until the early hours listening to HHH at the hall of fame probably hasn’t helped

[Dark Soldier]

Yas tiffy time

[Pleb]

Match of the night.

[Gray Fox]

Fatu has stolen the show so far, but now we have our sports entertainment part of the evening.

EDIT: El Grande Americano was also very good on his debut too.

[Waffdon]

Phonics was right about HHH. My god, his fucking ego. Getting his own entrance here now after already opening the show and speaking for 2 hours last night. :lol:

[phonics]

The audacity of HHH to come out for a cheap pop having booked this monstrosity.

[Gray Fox]

Phonics was right about HHH. My god, his fucking ego. Getting his own entrance here now after already opening the show and speaking for 2 hours last night. :lol:

Absolutely. The amount of HHH fluffing tonight alone has been unbearable.

[Waffdon]

Rollins carry job needed again tonight. The only man that should win.

[Gray Fox]

I actually agree, but I think Punk gains the most from winning here. Time to see if I go perfect on the night.

[phonics]

Cm Punk and CM stands for cringe maximum.

[Gray Fox]

Having Living Colour there is a very nice touch.

[Waffdon]

They can keep pretending it’s the main event but everyone knows it’s only the last match on a. Sunday that is classed as it proper

[Waffdon]

Rollins still unbeaten against Reigns. The correct decision. That’s my workhorse :cool:

[Gray Fox]

Sports Entertainment :cool:

[Waffdon]

It was nice not actually having a clue who was winning the match. There was a couple of pitfalls I thought may genuinely be it.

Rollins to align with Cena and Rock tomorrow imo

[Pleb]

Sports Entertainment :cool:
I now pledge to Sports Entertainment :cool:

[Gray Fox]

I would like to see that but with it first appearing as though Heyman has turned on Reigns to join Punk, but then also turning on him later on to align with Rollins(there's always a plan B).

Thanks lads. I'll take my booking fee.

[wullie]

I was hoping that the hall of fame thing would include Lex Luger coming out to have a little walk but no, spit some water and suck it

[Shindig]

They had a longer walk planned but he fell earlier in the day.

[7om]

Triple threat was excellent, and happy that Fatu won. The rest was a jumped up Saudi show.

Rollins to help Cena tomorrow night.

Rollins + Cena vs Reigns + Punk at Money in the Bank.
Punk vs Cena, Reigns vs Rollins, Rock vs Cody at Summerslam.

[wullie]

Phonics was right about HHH. My god, his fucking ego. Getting his own entrance here now after already opening the show and speaking for 2 hours last night. :lol:

Every episode of Raw as well since he was announced for the HOF devoted about five minutes to a past highlight of his before advertising tickets. I'm not sure Vince McMahon got this much camera time when he was a character in the show

[Waffdon]

He tries to come across all humble and act oblivious to it.

I didn’t realise it was normal for the HOF marquee induction to get their theme but if you’re gonna do it, why do you need to open the show.

He does seem to he universally loved by the wrestlers though so he must be doing something correct

[Browning]

Why did Rollins not pin Punk? They made a big deal out of him never being able to do so and no one can have any desire to see their feud continue at this point.

[Waffdon]

The bigger story has and will always be Reigns v Rollins. The latter has never lost against him and I think we’re heading for another Summer of Punk against John Cena. Presume that’s when he drops the title and then becomes a good boy again

[Browning]

The odds going in had Reigns at 5/1 to be pinned and Punk at 1/2. It just made more sense to me with the way they built it up.

It was still a good match either way, but they really needed to just put that to bed.

[Gray Fox]

I hope they play it off as Rollins outsmarting them, rather than have it be because he didnt stomp him that once.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I have Mania'd.

Pretty meh all round but the main event made up for it.

Fucking making the Yeet twat tap out Gunther...

[Waffdon]

Imagine it’s just Solo Sikoa tonight as the ‘mystery’ wrestler

[Gray Fox]

I'll go for another 2 HHH entrances tonight.

[Waffdon]

He sent his missus out instead :D

[Gray Fox]

They're so humble though.

[Waffdon]

Both Iyo and Tiff not getting the champions entrance. What is wrong with these people

[Gray Fox]

It's hopefully a play on the afterthought thing, but it's shit of them either way.

I also clocked the live crowd booing Cody on his walk in, which will be interesting come main event time. Bianca also getting heartily booed.

[Waffdon]

Bianca is obviously talented but she’s had the same character since her debut and her music, entrance and hair is annoying. So I don’t blame them for booing

Still rather she wins over Rheawinslol

[Dark Soldier]

the dba meter only runs to 110, terrible oversight

[Gray Fox]

Iyo better be winning this.

[Waffdon]

This has started hot, could be a belter

[Gray Fox]

Now that was some good shit.

[Dark Soldier]

That was fucking incredible, fair play.

[Gray Fox]

Right winner and had her pin Bianca to boot. Now that's how you open a show. Not a yeet in sight.

[Waffdon]

That’s how you kick it off. Could have given them a bit longer but that was hot throughout. Quality.

The match quality tonight should just be much better. I’m really hoping they let McIntyre and priest go wild here. Even AJ/Paul should be very good

[wullie]

That was a cracking match after such a crap buildup, which hopefully bodes well for the rest on the show.

[phonics]

Primo match. I do enjoy Iyo.

[Dark Soldier]

guitar is a bit fucked

[Gray Fox]

As a metalhead, this was a big miss of an entrance.

[Waffdon]

Dirty Dom title time :cool:

[Waffdon]

Didn’t realise he was the most over person at the event lmao

What a guy

[Gray Fox]

Everyone loves Dom. He gets perfect storyline heat, but everyone loves him backstage.

[Waffdon]

The reaction he got running back to the ring was crazy

Who we thinking here? Rusev? Solo?

[Gray Fox]

Solo makes most sense as we know hes there and its easy fodder for a Randy win.

I hope its someone they'll actually pop for though.

[Waffdon]

Didn’t expect that :cool:

[Gray Fox]

Omfg. YES.

[Waffdon]

Good for the pop but about 2 years too late. Orton looks confused lmao

[Gray Fox]

A shame Joe didnt get a few hits in, but he got a mania moment so its all good.

[Gray Fox]

This has been much better than night 1.

[Waffdon]

Not even close. You’d be best just avoiding all of yesterday outside of the main event whereas today has had no faults.

Hope that doesn’t mean the main event is tragic

[Gray Fox]

Just a shame we have to give this waste of space TV time.

[Waffdon]

He’s good so it doesn’t bother me

Only the woman’s piss break match and the main event after this. Hopefully that means an earlier finish than 4am rather than 25 mins build up and entrances in the main

[Gray Fox]

I assume leaving the womens tag this late means we're getting someone big as the tag partner. Someone like Becky would get a big pop, but who knows if she'll return or not.

I reckon you've got to give the main event a good hour including entrances. BMJ is surely getting some form of HHH style monstrosity entrance as it's his last.

[Gray Fox]

Someone in the WWE production just got their new drone huh.

[Gray Fox]

AJ deserves so much better than that.

[Dark Soldier]

He's so good in the ring and considering the people WWE has employed through the years make him look like a choirboy, g'wan Paul lad.

[Waffdon]

Not a great match. Styles has a very poor record here - Shane McMahon is still his best match by far

[Gray Fox]

This better not be a Bella...

[Waffdon]

Randomly dropped Roxanne and Bayley’s build for mania for this. I don’t get it

Liv is life anyway. What a woman. Look at her

[Gray Fox]

The only reason I have any respect for Enzo Amore.

[Waffdon]

Becky Hogan. I thought we’d get a heel turn or something. Jesus

[Gray Fox]

That was a bit more of a night 1 match quality, but a nice moment anyway.

[Gray Fox]

He's only got in the ring there because he crashed the ATV. Ffs :D

[phonics]

Imagine Stone Cold just killed a woman at Mania.

[Gray Fox]

I wonder why John Cena is the special guest on the Pat McAfee show tomorrow.

[Gray Fox]

Now we have Codys shit entrance out of the way, could we see the crowd force a Hogan v Rock type situation on us? They seem to be firmly behind Cena.

[Dark Soldier]

Hahahaha wtf

[Dark Soldier]

well that was fucking crap

[Gray Fox]

That was the opposite of night 1. Good show but main event was awful.

[Gray Fox]

It feels like we lost a segment somewhere. Finishing over 20 minutes early there. Either they found out late that Dwayne wasn't bothering, or Cena really is quite limited. We got a very slow, ploddy, heel works over the face match that never got beyond that before ref bump. We get some random rap guy we've never heard of and then Cody booked to lose looking completely stupid.

HHH has very recently been talking up how they don't really care for the online reaction to the show, maybe he knew this was coming? What I do remember is when Cody lost to Roman at Mania, he was fielding questions in the presser that were all essentially "why did you book this wrong?" and his answer was to say that the story wasn't finished.
This could be another night like that. It went from good night, to one of the worst Mania endings, the second Austin set off down that ramp.

[wullie]

That was a proper shit end, still no idea why Travis Scott is there or why they're trying to make him a thing. Maybe the Rock had stuff planned but it was ruined by Steve Austin being arrested for attempted vehicular manslaughter.

[Waffdon]

It feels like we lost a segment somewhere. Finishing over 20 minutes early there. Either they found out late that Dwayne wasn't bothering, or Cena really is quite limited. We got a very slow, ploddy, heel works over the face match that never got beyond that before ref bump. We get some random rap guy we've never heard of and then Cody booked to lose looking completely stupid.

HHH has very recently been talking up how they don't really care for the online reaction to the show, maybe he knew this was coming? What I do remember is when Cody lost to Roman at Mania, he was fielding questions in the presser that were all essentially "why did you book this wrong?" and his answer was to say that the story wasn't finished.
This could be another night like that. It went from good night, to one of the worst Mania endings, the second Austin set off down that ramp.

I get your point but calling Travis Scott a random is a take

Don Cena :cool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Main event was so shit.

The Travis Scott bits were so cringe.

[Waffdon]

Forgot to say, the commentary team are far too pally. They never shut up the whole night. Cole kept calling stuff wrong because of it

[7om]

That main event was absolutely woeful. I can forgive slow and plodding if the ending is worth it but a ref bump, Travis Scott and a belt spot? Fuck me. That is genuinely bad. Whoever booked that finish needs their head looking at.

[Ben]

I’ve not watched any as of yet and I don’t think I plan to apart from Saturday’s main event, and I’m in no hurry to do so.

[wullie]

I find Pat McAfee bearable in small doses but he's too much. Get him aht

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I’ve not watched any as of yet and I don’t think I plan to apart from Saturday’s main event, and I’m in no hurry to do so.
I'd watch the women's triple threat that opened night 2 as well.

[phonics]

I got 5 minutes into the match, saw the awful pace and went to bed. Seems I didn’t miss much.

[Lewis]

Don Cena :cool:

:cool:

[Gray Fox]

I get your point but calling Travis Scott a random is a take

Don Cena :cool:

Other than when he showed up with Dwayne at EC I have no idea who he is.

Cena deserved more. At least his heel promo tomorrow/Friday should be great.

[7om]

The more I think about Cena the more I think his whole career has been one massive fumble. His “Super Cena” shit oversaw a period that is widely regarded as some of the worst quality product that WWE has put out. Even with a mongole like McMahon in charge, a heel turn at that time could have been groundbreaking and got them out of the slump. People wanted to boo him.

Now in 2025 he’s on his last hurrah and chasing the title record, I think we’ve reached the point where the masses probably want to cheer him on. I liked the turn at Elimination Chamber and it will live long in the memory. But it was good because it was on the assumption that he had formed a mega alliance with The Rock, which is seemingly not the case anymore. A John Cena that needed Rock’s help to break the record is believable. What’s not believable is a John Cena that needs a nobody rapper who looks like he weighs 9 stone dripping wet.

They portrayed this guy as an underdog for a decade when he wasn’t one. Now when he actually is an underdog (“he’s lost a step”, “hasn’t won a singles match in 7 years”, “he’s going bald” etc) they won’t let the audience cheer him because we’ve got a heel turn that’s 10 years too late.

[Gray Fox]

It would have been much better if we got the usual Cena promos heading into it, remove rapper man from the match and have Cody dominate it. Then you have the ref bump and Cena turns heel on the night, not a month before.

This feels like it was intended for Dwayne to turn up last night, only for him to to cancel after plans have been made.

[Waffdon]

WWE definitely gets booked like The Rock turns up when he pleases to do so.

1914299297513845029

I never thought I’d like Kross but my god he’s been on fire for months now. It’s a shame 80% of it is in stuff that’s not even shown live on TV. You could tell he’s now over with the audience when he got eliminated on Friday.

[Ben]

I’d be over if I had his wife too.

[Browning]

I think the biggest problem was there was just too long between elimination chamber and wrestlemania and seemingly somewhere along the line they decided anyone above a certain level wasn’t going to be allowed to wrestle in those 6 weeks so every match build up was people cutting the same promo 10 times. It was the worst mania build in a long time and while some of the matches delivered it felt a bit flat overall.

Also they went 3 for 3 on women’s champions coming out first (you can forgive the mystery partner one I guess)… which isn’t a good look.

I do like the people arguing Cena used that basic move set because he’s a heel… like they’ve forgotten that was also his entire super Cena move set.

Highlight of the 2 nights was Austin taking out that woman. I need an update on that more than anything else.

[Browning]

No sooner did I post that then I find a video of Dom’s vehicle properly running over a fan. Gotta get that heat back from Austin I guess.

[Ben]

Numerous triple threat matches, Jey Uso winning a world title and sending champions out first. My blood pressure might have been in stroke territory had I watched both nights in full.

[Waffdon]

The triple threats and 4 way were the best matches as well

[Browning]

I liked all the multi-person matches in isolation, but it was a bit jarring seeing Iyo and Dom use the exact same finish about half an hour apart.

[7om]

https://youtu.be/jIx1pzRO25s?si=UqkPyllaXKj-2B7y

This was amazing. I was thoroughly sports entertained.

Another guy who has really impressed me recently is Karrion Kross. Got a great look, can talk and has a fit wife. Push the man.


He’s been pushed multiple times and is the most boring man alive. He must have something on HHH for him to be kept around


Kross is the wrestling equivalent of watching England play TOURNAMENT FOOTBALL.


WWE definitely gets booked like The Rock turns up when he pleases to do so.

1914299297513845029

I never thought I’d like Kross but my god he’s been on fire for months now. It’s a shame 80% of it is in stuff that’s not even shown live on TV. You could tell he’s now over with the audience when he got eliminated on Friday.

I warned you all last summer how good Kross is and I got called a cunt. He’s terrific.

[Ben]

That was Cena’s first WM singles win in 10 years since he beat Tank Rusev. Quite surprising.

[wullie]

The thing I don't like about Kross is how long he spent willingly bald when he's got such lovely hair.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1914370445333422245

:lol:

[Alex]

As somebody who started watching this again on a total whim when it came on Netflix, after about 25 years of not watching it at all (and has getting borderline obsessively back into it) - some random, I'm sure uninteresting/unoriginal thoughts:

• I feel like it was mostly a bit flat. Of the three "PLE's" I've watched since getting back into it, it was definitely the worst. The crowd seemed crap and it never felt like there was any buzz, even on the big moments it was minimal. If I got stuck behind one of these twats holding up the giant face of their kid or whatever I'd be livid. I bet it's full of absolute twats. At least the better seats anyway.

• I'm glad Cena won in terms of the story because I feel like that makes the most sense. But the execution was shit. I don't even mind that it was sort of a slow match because that kind of worked, just like a methodical, robotic take down. But the whole Travis Scott nonsense. Awful. If The Rock wants to heavily involve himself in the central storyline of the entire organisation then he really needs to be turning up to things like this, right?

• Weirdly, something about them wrestling in broad daylight makes it feel very off and takes away from the spectacle somehow. I can't explain it but everything felt more authentic when it was later on and dark/lit up.

• Gunther and Jey Uso was the epitome of this. It just played out as a total non-event. He (Jey) is proper crap too isn't he? I get it, he's well over with the fans/kids so he was always going to win. But in my totally amateur take it just feels like he's a theme song and that's it. He doesn't strike me as a very impressive wrestler and I really don't think he has any charisma/is any good on the mic either? He always comes across as super awkward in all areas to me.

• I'm not saying it was all bad at all though. It has great moments. The triple threat to end night one was the high point by far. That's when I like it most, when it's just a massive soap opera played out against the occasional backdrop of people fighting. That as fantastic and it far more interesting than the Cody/Cena stuff. I was hoping they would somehow tie that all together in one sort of "big evil faction" storyline.

• Jacob Fatu is my guy so I was glad to see him get the title. It will be interesting to see what he does next. I feel like he needs to either take over The Bloodline or fuck them off completely. Preferably the latter. He probably needs to cut down on the "moonsault off the top turnbuckle" rinse and repeat a bit too. We get it mate, you're good at it.

• Also really like Dom so I was glad to see him win that! Presumably they oust Finn from The Judgement Day now? I don't know. I am looking forward to seeing where that goes. Liv and Raquel losing the tag titles was actually the most surprisingly result of the whole thing to me, I did not see that coming at all.

• The women's triple threat was great, I'm glad Iyo kept the title. I hope they push the other two out of the title picture for a bit and let somebody else have a run. I did like Tiffy and Charlotte too. Different, very heavy and physical but I think it worked. Obviously there is all the stuff online about them going off scrip and legitimately being on the outs and you take that with a pinch of salt, but Tiffy did look like she had genuinely taken a beating at the end!

• I love that a 60 year old Stone Cold bezzing around the ring on a quad back ended up being exactly as bad an idea as it obviously was within about half a second of seeing him on it. :D

[Waffdon]

I’d agree with all of that.

The stadiums just don’t come across well, certainly in terms of atmosphere. It sounded terrible in terms of atmosphere but I imagine it wasn’t actually all that bad. You heard them chanting at times and the audio was barely picking it up. They’re not ever going away from the stadiums nowadays though

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Absolutely nailed Jey.

[Waffdon]

Bron and Rollins with Heyman will feed families

[Gray Fox]

I can't believe Rusev returned on Rusev Day.

[Ben]

Bron Breakker is getting the rocket. :drool:

[Gray Fox]

Mate of mine said to me after the main event on Saturday that it's a shame they just put Heyman with Rollins, because Bron could be his new Lesnar.

Got some very excited messages this morning.

[Ben]

Mania was a complete let down but they tried really hard with the reset button last night, which is good. I think a few of the swings will end up misses but you can't say they haven't tried.

The crowds have pretty much turned Cena back face already so putting him in a program with Orton is a great move because they won't boo Randy. I think the match will be good too.

Vaquer is money.

Gunther is more money.

And establishing the new heel team with Heyman by feeding them both Punk and Reigns is a great move and something we don't often see in WWE.

[Waffdon]

I hope they don’t add Becky to them. If they’re gonna add anyone it should be Melo

[Ben]

Joe Hendry :cool:

[Disco]

I had to go back as I was skipping through the show because I could of sworn I just saw Joe Hendrys face in the middle of Wrestlemania.

[wullie]

There was a brief shot of Jey Uso up on the ropes with Zayn waiting for him in the ring where I was convinced he was going to turn on him.

[Alex]

I hope they don’t add Becky to them. If they’re gonna add anyone it should be Melo

That would be great!

That episode of Raw was loads better than Wrestlemania overall.

I really like the Cena double down on "what a set of fickle bastards you all are" now the crowd have sort of turned on Cody a bit and seem to have (mostly) started cheering for him. I like that he is sticking his is "fuck the lot of you" rhetoric and just switching up the way he pitches it as the audience reactions change. Just keep The Rock out of it entirely and I think it will all still be a lot of fun.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Finally watched RAW.

Cena doubling down was brilliant and it was great to see Vaquer, Giulia and Roxanne getting some screen time. Especially Vaquer who looked great against Iyo.

Bron teaming up with Rollins and Heyman is fucking beautiful, stick that right into my fucking veins.

[Browning]

I hope they don’t add Becky to them. If they’re gonna add anyone it should be Melo

Should be Melo. Will be Theory.

[Waffdon]

Theory needs to be a face so badly. Everything about him suits it

[7om]

Don’t understand the hype for Carmelo Hayes. About as bland as can be right now. If they want a new dangerous alliance they need a muscle guy. AKA Drew McIntyre.

[Waffdon]

What on earth is Bron if he’s not a muscle guy

I wouldn’t say no to McIntyre but it’s never happening

[7om]

Bron is the young apprentice. The workhorse.

[Gray Fox]

There was a brief shot of Jey Uso up on the ropes with Zayn waiting for him in the ring where I was convinced he was going to turn on him.

I think this was a purposeful tease. Sami does deserve a title run of his own.

I did enjoy Cena immediately proving himself right in his promo with the crowd turning on Cody. I do not however look forward to the actual match between him and Orton. I hope that dates countdown becomes a thing every time he shows up. Showing up just to tick one off the counter and leave without saying anything every now and then will get him great heat.

As for the Heyman lead faction, assuming we have some kind of Evolution tribute we have the two established main event players in Rollins and Heyman(HHH and Flair). Bron could really assume the roles of Randy or Batista in this, but I imagine they set him on people when they see fit, as last night, so Batista he is. I would say MITB comes a bit too soon for him, but he seems a shoe-in for Royal Rumble 2026 at present.

I imagine we are setting up for a tag between them and a begrudging Punk/Reigns at Backlash, where whoever the 4th member is will reveal themselves to cost the faces. If you dont want to follow along with another Evolution type group, you could bring in a returning Bronson Reed. Backlash could be about the right amount of time for his broken ankle to heal. I would personally choose Trick Williams, but Theory is still only 27 and would fit better, I think.

[Ben]

Easy booking and I'm here for it. I love it when main event heels are getting all the heat because they cheat and actually win.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Noam Dar returning from injury :cool:

[Ben]

I think the title needs him more than he needs the title at this point.

[phonics]

What happened to that Indian bloke they said ‘WAS COMING’ for months.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He came back, feuded with Dom and Rey for a bit then re-formed his old tag team back in NXT.

They then got drafted to the main roster, did fuck all and both were released.

[Gray Fox]

It seems Dwayne has given his side of what happened with this Mania build/match.

It seems the HHH(all 3 stand for humble) plan was for Cody to see he was losing his friends while he continued to hold the title. Then the weird night where Dwayne came back and was turning more than the Big Show, he plants the seed for Cody to potentially turn at Mania in a your friends or your title choice moment. Cody would stay mega babyface and refuse, but that's when the Cena heel turn hits and he wins the 17th dirty, after having a full babyface v babyface run up to the match.

Instead, ticket sales for Elimination Chamber were low, so the Endeavour president personally rang Dwayne to ask him to appear at the show and make fans have to watch it. The best they could come up with is that the final boss doesn't want titles, he wants your soul. So they built that up and essentially did the Mania turn 7 weeks or whatever it was early.
He says he then told them he was done getting involved and essentially to take his ball and run with it.

Seems a bit sus to me. There has definitely been a gaping Dwayne sized hole in things since EC. Not even Grammy Award Winning Artist Travis Scott could fill it.

[Ben]

Bullshit, of course. They'd sold 23.5k out of 29k tickets by 23rd December. There's a Twitter account that follows this shit so that is one of the easier fact checks I'll ever do.

[wullie]

Did he mention turning up drunk on NXT the next day to ramble endlessly about how everyone should shut the fuck up and enjoy the ride he's taking them on?

[phonics]

The only title Dwaynes yet to win is "Worlds Biggest Liar to Protect Their Massively Outproportioned Ego" off the Hulkster but he's definitely a strong No. 1 contender.

[wullie]

Who can forget the main event of Wrestlemania 13 where he lifted the 600lb Sultan over his head in front of 150,000 screaming Rockamaniacs brother

[Shindig]

Is his daughter still an authority figure in NXT? She has negative charisma.

[phonics]

Do you mean Tamina? That's not his daughter, I'm not sure it's even a direct relation. It's like a cousins niece or something.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Is his daughter still an authority figure in NXT? She has negative charisma.

Yep, she's the GM.

She's done a lot better in that role than when she was in the weird heel faction Schism.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Do you mean Tamina? That's not his daughter, I'm not sure it's even a direct relation. It's like a cousins niece or something.

He means Simone aka Ava.

[phonics]

BTw, haters of Dynamite, I'd truly reccomend the last couple of weeks of shows. They've really nailed it on the story telling front but because they're kind of between storylines they're putting on fun matches.

Brody King + Ospreay vs Takeshita/Alexander was great in a fun house show way. My personal highlight being when Brody King slammed both his opponents off a hot tag and Will Ospreay got excited and went to hype Brody up and Brody just grabs Ospreay and flings him against the ropes and Samoan Drops him onto them both.

A great little 'We're not a tag team so don't have established moves but I'm a big fucker and you're the high flyer so I'm going to take you on a ride' moment. Top wrestling.

[Ben]

That’s certainly an optimistic view.

Tony is out of ideas. Everything was heel beat down, then a babyface run in for the save to set up the future match. It happened four times last night.

[phonics]

See and maybe this is just different ways of seeing things that can fundamentally never be addressed.

I liked the actual wrestling, like the moves and the different ways they went about it and different movesets used.

You see the outcome of what the match sets-up.

[phonics]

Also I did mean to apologise for suggesting the Moxley book, I cheated and listened to it as an audiobook at which point it's just a reasonably entertaining podcast. I tried actually reading it after your comments and realised its like reading a middle school book report.

As recompense can I offer the final page of Sabus book?

https://i.imgur.com/5y54rv0.png

[Ben]

I finished the Moxley book. It was quite a journey. I’ll do a write up if anyone is interested. Fascinating insight into his pickled mind. The whole thing read exactly like one of his promos but it was still rather interesting nonetheless.

Sabu is a level of lunacy Moxley can only dream of. :D

[phonics]

I finished the Moxley book. It was quite a journey. I’ll do a write up if anyone is interested. Fascinating insight into his pickled mind. The whole thing read exactly like one of his promos but it was still rather interesting nonetheless.

The one thing you can't ding him for unlike 99% of those books, you can tell he wrote it.

[Ben]

Grammar mistakes and all. He didn’t even let the publisher proof read it apparently.

[phonics]

Grammar mistakes and all. He didn’t even let the publisher proof read it apparently.
I just checked out who the Publisher was and it seems to be an independent whos latest releases are a series of those Navy Seal autobioraphies, 'Im Ted Bundys cousin and I didn't realise he was a bad guy until after the 40 or so murders" and "I'm Kramer from Seinfeld and I swear that time I said the N Word wasn't just me being racist: The Autobiography"

[Baz]

Been watching some Dark Side of the Ring. Couldn’t be bothered with the Mick Foley episode talking about his Hell in a Cell match with Undertaker cos it’s been done to death, but enjoyed the ones about Vader and Ludwig Borger.

[Alex]

I've been watching those too. Just in order. It's crazy how much mad shit goes on. I watched the one about the "Brawl for All" most recently. I don't remember that happening. What a wild/stupid concept.

My favourite running theme throughout all of them is how much that Jim Cornette guy hates Vince Russo with every ounce of his being. :D

[Ben]

Jim Cornette has his flaws but he’s very committed to the traditions of pro wrestling and Russo flies in the face of all of that, so in that regard I’m fully behind him.

[wullie]

The Collision In Korea episode is a good one, of only for the idea of North Koreans shitting themselves at the sight of Eric Bischoff having a jog.

[Gray Fox]

Great Cena/Orton promo completely overshowed by the ridiculous decision to have Chelsea Green lose the US title.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Quality to see Fraxion called up and to see Aleister Black return who is a real favourite of mine.

Cena/Orton was great too but having Chelsea Green drop her title to Zelina fucking Vega is mental.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1915960722883842364

Oh and this was brilliant.

Edit: TLC match was a banger, how was it not at Mania?

[Ben]

Call back to Diesel beating up Shawn with Mad Dog Vachon’s fake leg.

[phonics]

1916650574956687797

Didn't catch him...

[Ben]

All stood waiting like a pack of nerds for 10 seconds then parted like the Red Sea. Stupid spots get stupid results.

This is what happens when you let a load of dumb indie geeks cut loose. They tried to catch with their arms and not their bodies because they don't know the first thing about actually working.

[Baz]

Brock Lesnar, man.

1916636417952038921

[Alex]

Quality to see Fraxion called up and to see Aleister Black return who is a real favourite of mine.

Cena/Orton was great too but having Chelsea Green drop her title to Zelina fucking Vega is mental.

Yeah this seems mental to me too. Do you think they are going to move her up to challenge for the big title? Surely?

But even so, the choice of who she has dropped it to seems really odd.

I mean I've only been watching it since January so maybe there's a lot of history I'm unaware of but this Zelina Vega, I feel like I've hardly seen her/know very little about her. It definitely feels like there are more worthy/deserving people on the roster to take the title!

Drew now dicking about for the US Title seems really weird to me too. I love Fatu, don't get me wrong. He's by absolute favourite and I do think him and Drew will be good. It helps elevate him too. But it just seems a bit, I don't know, "beneath" Drew. Who I think is the absolute man and one of my favourites out of the top-tier guys.

But then I suppose the main title he could/would normally be in contention for is currently Cena's and I don't imagine Drew is one of the guys they have in mind for a rivalry with him between now and him calling it a day. So they probably need something for the likes of Drew, Priest et al to spin their wheels with in the meantime.

Also agree that the TLC match should have been on Wrestlemania. If would have been top three in terms of actual matches on there probably. Instead we got The War Raiders in their budget "Clash of Clans" get-up.

I'm glad to see Fraxiom as well. They will fit great into that tag team division. I'm glad they have moved up together too, because I swear they have sort of been hinting on NXT that they were going to fall out and split up.

[Waffdon]

Brock Lesnar, man.

1916636417952038921

Size of them traps lmao

[Waffdon]

Yeah this seems mental to me too. Do you think they are going to move her up to challenge for the big title? Surely?

But even so, the choice of who she has dropped it to seems really odd.

I mean I've only been watching it since January so maybe there's a lot of history I'm unaware of but this Zelina Vega, I feel like I've hardly seen her/know very little about her. It definitely feels like there are more worthy/deserving people on the roster to take the title!

Drew now dicking about for the US Title seems really weird to me too. I love Fatu, don't get me wrong. He's by absolute favourite and I do think him and Drew will be good. It helps elevate him too. But it just seems a bit, I don't know, "beneath" Drew. Who I think is the absolute man and one of my favourites out of the top-tier guys.

But then I suppose the main title he could/would normally be in contention for is currently Cena's and I don't imagine Drew is one of the guys they have in mind for a rivalry with him between now and him calling it a day. So they probably need something for the likes of Drew, Priest et al to spin their wheels with in the meantime.

Also agree that the TLC match should have been on Wrestlemania. If would have been top three in terms of actual matches on there probably. Instead we got The War Raiders in their budget "Clash of Clans" get-up.

I'm glad to see Fraxiom as well. They will fit great into that tag team division. I'm glad they have moved up together too, because I swear they have sort of been hinting on NXT that they were going to fall out and split up.

The worst part about Mcintyre is that it seems like this year long Priest feud is STILL not going to be over. I assume they are going with Fatal Four Way for the US - the only excuse is that there's only a 3 week turnaround between 'mania and Backlash.

Speaking of Backlash, I hope Cena slaps the referee to retain the title ala Orton back in '09

[Alex]

The worst part about Mcintyre is that it seems like this year long Priest feud is STILL not going to be over. I assume they are going with Fatal Four Way for the US - the only excuse is that there's only a 3 week turnaround between 'mania and Backlash.

Speaking of Backlash, I hope Cena slaps the referee to retain the title ala Orton back in '09

Yeah, that did occur to me too. He spent the entire run up to Wrestlemania beating the shit out of Priest (other than that one time Damian got one over on him, resulting temporary eye patch!) and then did him over quite comprehensively at the main event too.

So I really thought that was it. In fact I thought they might have given Priest a bit of time off just to sell it. So it was a bit of an eye roll moment where he came charging out on Smackdown and just picked up where they left off. The last month and a half might as well have not happened.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Yeah this seems mental to me too. Do you think they are going to move her up to challenge for the big title? Surely?

But even so, the choice of who she has dropped it to seems really odd.

I mean I've only been watching it since January so maybe there's a lot of history I'm unaware of but this Zelina Vega, I feel like I've hardly seen her/know very little about her. It definitely feels like there are more worthy/deserving people on the roster to take the title!

Drew now dicking about for the US Title seems really weird to me too. I love Fatu, don't get me wrong. He's by absolute favourite and I do think him and Drew will be good. It helps elevate him too. But it just seems a bit, I don't know, "beneath" Drew. Who I think is the absolute man and one of my favourites out of the top-tier guys.

But then I suppose the main title he could/would normally be in contention for is currently Cena's and I don't imagine Drew is one of the guys they have in mind for a rivalry with him between now and him calling it a day. So they probably need something for the likes of Drew, Priest et al to spin their wheels with in the meantime.

Also agree that the TLC match should have been on Wrestlemania. If would have been top three in terms of actual matches on there probably. Instead we got The War Raiders in their budget "Clash of Clans" get-up.

I'm glad to see Fraxiom as well. They will fit great into that tag team division. I'm glad they have moved up together too, because I swear they have sort of been hinting on NXT that they were going to fall out and split up.

It seems Chelsea Green might be taking a break which is a shame because her gimmick with the title was brilliant.

Zelina Vega was a decent manager for Andrade in NXT ages ago but they've tried to make her a thing on the main roster but it doesn't work. She's so small but also not particularly fast or skilful when wrestling so it just comes across as meh.

Fraxiom have always been a "we're so different but work well together" type of team in terms of their personalities (Frazer is more of a hothead whilst Axiom is fairly calm and collected) and they have bad communication, plus they were also trying for singles gold now and then but that's more been something they could lean in before matches in NXT. "HOW WILL THEY COPE, THEY'RE DIVIDED" before coming up with the goods to retain. They seemed to have dropped in the last month or so before they dropped the titles to Hank and Tank so I guess they were gearing them up for the main roster.

Really fun team though and they had so many great matches in NXT.

[phonics]

Check who Zelina Vegas husband is and wonder why she might have just won the title. Alestair Brother strikes again.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Apparently Giulia and Roxanne are now officially on RAW.

But they might be coming up as a tag team weirdly.

[Gray Fox]

Check who Zelina Vegas husband is and wonder why she might have just won the title. Alestair Brother strikes again.

I did think this.

I also dont get Alestair Black. Never did in his first run. Never did in his AEW run.

We get enough shit spooky bollocks with the Wyatt Sicks(who are apparently due back very soon, with Alexa Bliss)

+1 for me for Cena getting himself immediately DQ'd in St Louis. Whether with the referee slap call back, or by hitting him in the dick, which seems to be a popular finish in WWE right now.

[Ben]

Black could be a proper badass heel if he was presented properly but seemingly he's determined to be this spooky cunt and I have no time for that.

[Ben]

Imagine my shock when Seth Rollins first promo as a heel is a million times better than any of the whiny shit he's done for the past 5+ years.

[Waffdon]

Rollins is untouchable, wash your mouth out. Imagine if his knee never went :drunk:

Jey Uso v Logan Paul. One for the ages

[Waffdon]

Gunther against McAfee better end in the latter being written off tv

[wullie]

If they want Gunther wrestling commentators, get Wade Barrett back in his cape instead.

[Ben]

Rollins is untouchable, wash your mouth out. Imagine if his knee never went :drunk:

His first problem was trying to continue working as if his knee never went. So it was just the same but in slower motion. Hopefully going heel forces him to work smarter (and therefore better).

And he's an awful babyface in the promos. His whiny tone is classic heel stuff. The Authority run was his best by a million miles.

[Waffdon]

He’s never really been a ‘face’ for a long time. He’s always been in that inbetween stage for me. It wasn’t that long ago he was stabbing Cody’s very bruised pecs with kendo sticks

I find it baffling that the world championship on RAW is like a mid card title. It was like that even when Gunther was champ. The top stars on RAW don’t seem to ever care or mention this title

[Alex]

He’s never really been a ‘face’ for a long time. He’s always been in that inbetween stage for me. It wasn’t that long ago he was stabbing Cody’s very bruised pecs with kendo sticks

I find it baffling that the world championship on RAW is like a mid card title. It was like that even when Gunther was champ. The top stars on RAW don’t seem to ever care or mention this title

This is definitely something that has struck me as weird since I started watching it again.

I reckon RAW has the more interesting lineup of talent too, but the main title is almost an afterthought. Nothing about Seth Rollin's "plan" seems to imply he has any interesting in bothering with it, for example.

I assume, in terms of the story and whatnot, the title on RAW and the title on Smackdown or not supposed to be equal, right? The Smackdown one that Cena now holds is the one, right? But I assume the RAW title is meant to be a relatively big deal still?

[Gray Fox]

They had Reigns unify the Raw and Smackdown belts(they were literally red and blue) to create the universal title as part of his mega long title run.

Then after a while they figured it wasn't a great idea to only have one champion over both shows, especially given that he didn't always show up anyway.

So they made the new belt for Raw and promoted it as the workhorse championship. There would be no part timers holding it and it would be defended much more regularly.
Rollins got it first and was going to do the usual Triple H booking thing of holding it until Wrestlemania. But early in 2024 he cooked his knee again(legit) but they weirdly didn't have him vacate it. Instead he was kept on TV trying to cheerlead Cody Rhodes, but kept away from any action to give the knee chance to heal by Mania.

At Mania they tried a match with Drew but his knee was still fucked so Drew won quickly.

You can tell how bad it was because when he tried to run the SHIELD interference for Cody in the main event, he could barely stand. So bad was it that the WWE highlights on that match have his run in completely cut out.

But yes, the face of the company belt is the Smackdown one. You only have to look at who challenges for which belt.

[Ben]

The two belts thing (not just World, but tag team, IC/US etc) has always been to satisfy the TV networks. And it's rarely ever worked, due to either one always being perceived as the better title over the other (in the case of World), or just outright apathy because it results in every man and his dog either having a title or being a title contender.

There's been the odd run with the WHC over the years that legitimised it, but then they put it on some goof like Jack Swagger or Jey Uso and ruin it again.

[wullie]

They do all this draft and separate rosters and blah blah but people just pop up on any of the shows on a whim in a continuous basis, they could easily halve the amount of titles in a second with no great difference.