January Football: it's just the way we play, mate

[Jimmy Floyd]

At this point I basically support some merchandise, a couple of upmarket bakeries and the colour blue.

[SincereTheRebel]

Neymar has left Al Hilal. Absolutely robbed them. Breaks down like this apparently

5 games
2 trophies

Modern day robin hood this kids. Stuck up PSG, robbed the saudis and now back to the favela.

[Waffdon]

Villa after Disasi and Felix? Yeah, nothing to see here. Ah to be a deckchair.

It sounds like they’re getting disasi on a ‘dry loan’ which would be absurd. Helping a team below you by 1 point because why not. He’d fit in well there as they would use him how he’s supposed to

[niko_cee]

Also managed to inadvertently ruin Barcelona as a viable going concern.

That 2014 world cup quarter final was a real sliding doors moment. Funny at the time to see his dreams ruined, but, in the cool reflection of hindsight a really bad outcome and a bit of a tragedy for everyone.

[SincereTheRebel]

Also managed to inadvertently ruin Barcelona as a viable going concern.

That 2014 world cup quarter final was a real sliding doors moment. Funny at the time to see his dreams ruined, but, in the cool reflection of hindsight a really bad outcome and a bit of a tragedy for everyone.

Was that the knee to the spine?

[niko_cee]

Yeah, the Colombia game. Was that quarter final or last 16? Either way, the temporary elation of seeing his ego and the hope of a nation collapse in on itself was retrospectively quite a bad day for football.

[Ben]

I'm sure Man Utd dropping £30m on an inexperienced left-back from relegation-threatened Lecce will not backfire on them at all.

[Waffdon]

Dorgu? He’s meant to be insanely good if you believe the hype from people who cover Italy.

Would be another FM dub as well

[Manc]

Signing a left back to play at left back. Seems sensible enough.

[Lofty]

At least the fee is not extortionate. If United had saved their comedy Ten Hag fees and paid the same to be rinsed buying proven premier league players they'd likely be a lot better off.

[niko_cee]

I have no view on the player as I have never seen him play, but I do somewhat take issue with the idea that £30m for a 20 year old with 50-odd senior appearances to his name isn't a bit extortionate.

Zirkzee had exactly the same number of Serie A appearances when signed it would seem.

£30m is hardly loose change when times are tight.

Could always go either way though. Maybe he's a 'generational talent'. How much did Spurs pay for Udogie? How much do Bournemouth want for Kerkez?

[SvN]

It's not 2006 anymore, granddad.

[Jimmy Floyd]

£30m is also the total amount spent by Manchester city council on homelessness each year.

[randomlegend]

The transfer isn't actually agreed yet.

That said, I think people still just haven't got used to the fact that "that's just wot players cost, mate".

Any young player showing remotely decent potential will be £30m+.

City have just paid over £30m for a player who was signed from a team in the second tier of the mighty Belarussian league by Lens 18 months ago. They've also paid around £30m for a 19 year old directly from Brazil.

Yes, City are in a much better position financially to throw money around, but players don't become cheaper just because you're short on cash.

[SincereTheRebel]

Still counting peoples money.

[Ben]

How much would someone like Kerkez or Robinson cost?

[niko_cee]

Yeah, but at the same time they do come cheap, as demonstrated by the fact that I could have probably bought the City guy and this Dorgu chap for the fees they commanded 18 months ago, instead of buying a derelict house. I know it's not how things work but I just find it a bit mad that that's the way things seem to operate now, although that has been the case for a long while.

I'm also struck, due to my relative indifference to it all now, when I see the pissant clubs spend as much as they do on players - Wolves shelling out £45m for Cunha for example was a bit of an eye-opener for me and even the €18m Bournemouth apparently spent on Kerkez. To answer the how much for Kerkez I quickly googled it and apparently £86m :roflol:

[randomlegend]

How much would someone like Kerkez or Robinson cost?

How much does any player cost in January from a Premier League club who doesn't want to sell? (A lot)

[Jimmy Floyd]

Is a left back from Lecce £30m of actual money (not pretend transfer money) better than a left back from the academy? He is not, which is why people question it. The transfer market inflated lunacy does not necessarily have to be respected in discussing these things.

[randomlegend]

Is a left back from Lecce £30m of actual money (not pretend transfer money) better than a left back from the academy? He is not, which is why people question it. The transfer market inflated lunacy does not necessarily have to be respected in discussing these things.

Is he not? How do you know? The hit rate for academy players actually being good enough is very low. Even many of the most highly-rated ones end up in the lower leagues, nevermind making it at one of the "big clubs" (lololol United aren't a big club).

[Pepe]

Yeah you cannot just say he's in Lecce he must be shit.

If United is buying him though, he probably is shit lololol.

[SvN]

Is a left back from Lecce £30m of actual money (not pretend transfer money) better than a left back from the academy? He is not, which is why people question it.


Oh right, thanks for clearing that up. In that case I'm sure we'll pull out.

[randomlegend]

Not really sure why we aren't still playing Brandon Williams as our left back week-in-week-out now I think about it. Lads from the academy are just as good as anyone else after all.

[niko_cee]

Still remember when they wanted £15m for him or whatever it was.

:D

Isn't the point more that there are actually loads of professional footballers, and many of them are probably capable of providing United with adequate leftback services, and so going and trying to sign the next Roberto Carlos is probably more likely to end in failure than not, and, given that, you may as well take a punt on a youngster for 6 months and/or do some actual scouting rather than basically taking a punt on a youngster but pay £30m for the privilege? Probably makes more sense from a Chelsea perspective as they have had untold riches come through and largely be ignored from their academy.

Like I said, I make no judgment as to this player, maybe he's amazing.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not really sure why we aren't still playing Brandon Williams as our left back week-in-week-out now I think about it. Lads from the academy are just as good as anyone else after all.

People just find the idea of spending £30 million on a punt stupid, which is because it objectively is when you have an understanding of the value of money, as opposed to an understanding of the current transfer market bubble. Spending £80 million on a superstar is arguably much more explicable because that person will probably deliver that back in revenue.

How much better is this guy than Gillingham's left back? A fair bit better. Five massive houses in central London better? I dunno. This isn't really a criticism of United, who are just following the current market, it's a criticism of football in general.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Rebuilding the training ground is only costing them £50 million.

[Manc]

Lecce or no Lecce, he has represented Denmark. Definitely not a punt.

[randomlegend]

People just find the idea of spending £30 million on a punt stupid, which is because it objectively is when you have an understanding of the value of money, as opposed to an understanding of the current transfer market bubble. Spending £80 million on a superstar is arguably much more explicable because that person will probably deliver that back in revenue.

How much better is this guy than Gillingham's left back? A fair bit better. Five massive houses in central London better? I dunno. This isn't really a criticism of United, who are just following the current market, it's a criticism of football in general.

If you could go out and guarantee you were buying a superstar for £80m, then yeah. But the players who are genuinely "superstars" will either already be at clubs who have no need or want to ever sell them, or have completely prohibitive prices put on them. What genuine "superstar" in world football do you think you could go out and buy with £80m?

This kid could go to Brighton for £30m and be absolutely brilliant. What would Brighton then be asking for him next summer? The first signs of a young player looking really good in the Premier League and they get a £100m price tag stuck on them. And they're not even anywhere near "superstar" at that point. Teams were getting quoted £100m for Evan Ferguson a year or so ago. Everton wanted £80m+ for Branthwaite in the summer. Relatively unproven players.

Even the richest clubs can no longer afford to just buy the "sure thing" players. They are being forced to try to cut out the middleman clubs.

[Bam]

Liverpool after Jamie Gittens for £86m. :|

[Jimmy Floyd]

£86 million is what the UK spends each year in overseas aid to Ethiopia.

[Manc]

According to The Athletic, Man Red owe £319m on players they have already signed. £154m of which is due in the next twelve months.

[niko_cee]

£86 million is what the UK spends each year in overseas aid to Ethiopia.

:D

I was going to put this in the book thread, but here seems just as apposite. I've been reading L'Etranger and have been getting strong Jimmy vibes off the main dude.

What's the deal with £86m anyway? Is that €100m [or dollars]? Seems to be the number doing the rounds on a lot of fronts.

[Waffdon]

Is a left back from Lecce £30m of actual money (not pretend transfer money) better than a left back from the academy? He is not, which is why people question it. The transfer market inflated lunacy does not necessarily have to be respected in discussing these things.

https://media.tenor.com/CQAGV-5egn0AAAAM/hmm-suspect.gif

[Pepe]

What's the deal with £86m anyway?

It is the sum that the AI deemed optimal.

[niko_cee]

United are poaching another youth of The Arsenal.

I've never been closer
I tried to understand (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c897d4358ejo)

Oh god, he's 18, bit ruined.

[Shindig]

Teenager Heaven sounds like a website you have to declare you're over 18 to view.

[Giggles]

Or on a register.

[phonics]

Lewis Skelly red turned over.PGMOL shit down their leg for 3 days to try pretend they hadn’t fucked up. What was the point. Just say you got something wrong and get better.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Meanwhile there's police protection outside Michael Oliver's house. Probably time for a couple of rounds to be played under TV blackout and behind closed doors, force everyone to cool down a bit.

[phonics]

So odd that none of this stuff was released when it actually happened but after an active fuck up where they’re trying to cover their arses.

[randomlegend]

Dorgu agreed for £25 (+4)m.

[SvN]

Look forward to him being called a "£45m star" for the next 4 years.

[niko_cee]

Does this mean the official end of Luke Shaw? Or is he into the back three?

[randomlegend]

I mean Shaw is just perma-broken regardless of who we do or don't sign in his position.

When fit he's genuinely excellent as both a left back and a left centre back. Not sure if he's good enough going forward to be the wing back.

His career is such a massive shame to be honest. Prior to the leg break he looked like he was going to be absolutely class, and even after that he's great whenever he manages to get a run in the team (aside from when Mourinho was bullying him).

[Lewis]

Mourinho was right to bully him. For every goal he had a hand in going forward he cost at the other end ball-watching.

[Luke Emia]

Lewis has it right he’s painfully average and wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes under Ferguson.

[randomlegend]

Mourinho was right to bully him. For every goal he had a hand in going forward he cost at the other end ball-watching.

He wasn't right, because a big part of a manager's job is to get the most out of players and all he achieved with Shaw was alienating him and making him worse. Ferguson - since he's been brought up - was an absolute master of recognising that different players need different approaches. Shaw was never going to respond well to Mourinho quite literally publicly calling him a retard. Manager's like Mourinho can cry all they want about players being soft but Ferguson would never have treated Shaw like that.

Shaw is not "painfully average". When fit he's a better player than Mourinho is manager nowadays.

[Waffdon]

Lewis has it right he’s painfully average and wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes under Ferguson.

We’ve had two of the more mental takes in the same day on this thread

[Lewis]

Whatever his wider flaws and unsuitability Mourinho had all of the United melts bang to rights.

[Luke Emia]

A starting point for a good player is always availability and he’s never fucking fit. The most Premier League games he’s played in a season is 32 and he’s played less than 20 games in a season in 7 seasons since he joined.

You can be Maldini, Roberto Carlos and Marcelo all rolled into one as a left-back but if you can’t play in most the of the games you may as well stick Brandon Williams there.

He suffers from that thing of not playing that much so he seems fucking brilliant then, you see him play for a few weeks and turns out he’s not quite as good as everyone thinks.

As for Ferguson he wouldn’t have called him a cunt in public. But you can guarantee he’d have called him a cunt to his face for turning up every pre-season looking like a beached whale.

[niko_cee]

The best thing about Shaw is that when signed he was sorting the position for ten years, which, I guess, in the long run has sort of been right. What United fans didn't realise at the time was that they would be absolute wank for those ten years.

Whether he is bang average or whatever, I'm not sure he's much better than a Danny Rose was, so whatever he was, that's Shaw as well.

[randomlegend]

Duran apparently off to Saudi. That's pretty sad.

[Jimmy Floyd]

His agent needs a bullet in the groin.

[phonics]

It's nothing to do with his agent. Second Captains covered it a bit even before he popped off. He is a Balotelli/Cantona level weirdo. He has no respect for his teammates or the game. He fundamentally cannot work as part of a team. He is talented but there's a reason he's coming off the bench and then launching one in from 30 yards. He's the football equivalent of a DiAngelo Russel in the NBA. He has no real offers outside of moving to West Ham for a destined failure of a move. Cash in.

[Clunge]

Said it right at the start of the window, we should absolutely cash in. If anyone tips (an already absurd) £70m for him, we should lol them to the bank personally.

[Ben]

Is it happening? I read that Boniface is going instead.

[randomlegend]

Is it happening? I read that Boniface is going instead.

Apparently they've agreed deals for both and will decide today which to go through with.

Also Luke Shaw returning from the dead the moment we agree a deal for a new left back, as is tradition.

[Bam]

Astonhotspurs could be about to sell both there 'world class' forwards. :chortle:

[-james-]

Duran is good but he's started seven league matches for them, or about 12 90s if you include sub mins. Taking the stuff phonics mentioned into account and selling him for a tidy sum seems a bit of a no brainer.

[niko_cee]

Astonhotspurs could be about to sell both there 'world class' forwards. :chortle:

https://images.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1676751400ra/33955162.gif

Elsewhere, Norway kicking off the anti-VAR revolution.

:drool:

[Bam]

Tottenham of the midlands could be about to sell Duran and Watkins.

[Mike]

Danns starts for Liverpool :cool2:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Interesting dynamic on the Norway VAR thing, with clubs wanting rid but the federation desperate to keep it. Why would that be?

[Kikó]

In the pockets of big camera.

[niko_cee]

Danns starts for Liverpool :cool2:

Nunez in the travelling party but completely absent from the squad?

:sherlock:

[Shindig]

Well, that's Arsenal's new striker sorted then.

[Giggles]

Well, that's Arsenal's new striker sorted then.

100,000,001 quid.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Nunez in the travelling party but completely absent from the squad?

:sherlock:

Needed a piss when they stopped at Heerenveen services, never saw him again.

[niko_cee]

Looks like someone, rightly, wasn't a fan of the 50/50 merch on sale at the murderbowl.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Celtic getting fisted again :drool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Brest v Real Madrid is a magnificent occasion.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Neto :lol:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Man City gahahahahahahahahahaha.

[randomlegend]

United u21s beating Oldham 5-0. Not sure the first team would do better than that.

[niko_cee]

What's the leftback like?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Fucking VAR.

[Luke Emia]

After all the doesn’t matter how we do in this game. We could probably do with a goal here to knock PSV down a few spots and stick PSG up a couple and make the next round a bit easier looking at the teams 15th to 18th in the as it stands table.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Ollie Watkins :lol:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1884714997248328157

:drool:

[Magic]

Ollie Watkins :lol:

Horrendous. Liked McGinn pre-trolling as well.

[randomlegend]

Lollie Flopkins

[John Arne]

Chiesa's face is too big for his head.

[John Arne]

18yr old Amara Nallo with a red card 3 minutes into his debut :)

[Jimmy Floyd]

I have to say, as a long term doubter of it (and still am to some extent), this format is the perfect riposte to any conceivable super league setup. Allows the large clubs to ease their way through (or make a tits of it) but also huge amounts of room for genuine merit regardless of status, possibly more than before. In fact, definitely more than before.

It's almost gone too far in the sense that I think the giants will be unnerved and want to rein it back in a bit.

A super league would be like this but with zero jeopardy and zero variety.

[Luke Emia]

City getting Bayern or Real is glorious.

[phonics]

I have to say, as a long term doubter of it (and still am to some extent), this format is the perfect riposte to any conceivable super league setup. Allows the large clubs to ease their way through (or make a tits of it) but also huge amounts of room for genuine merit regardless of status, possibly more than before. In fact, definitely more than before.

It's almost gone too far in the sense that I think the giants will be unnerved and want to rein it back in a bit.

A super league would be like this but with zero jeopardy and zero variety.

I think it's good. From an Arsenal perspective I was invested into game 7 up until we scored a goal within 45 seconds and considering there only used to be 6 games before they must be doing something right?

[Ben]

Yep, I've happily been proved wrong on this one. I hated it when they announced it, wanted to hate it when it started, but it's been the most entertaining CL in many years so far.

[Giggles]

Boniface the cunt is staying. There's Ferguson's escape route closed.

[Gray Fox]

The new format is better imo. It gives some not so expected teams the chance to play knockout football in the champions league. PSV, Brest, Feyenoord, Celtic and Brugge all get that sweet extra cash now.

Arsenal, Lille and Villa all dining well at Europes highest table was also not on the cards.

Though this year there is some similarity to F1 trialling sprint races. When they introduced those, they got some luck in drivers being down the field when they normally would not be. This lead to an exciting sprint or two and the idea was sold. Cut to now and it's a lot less so now those teams have sorted their shit out.
Same here to an extent. You'd expect Madrid and City will not be languishing near the cut off before the final day many times again.

[Ben]

Al Nassr have gone with Duran over Boniface then.

I see all this stuff that Duran is a lunatic who doesn't give a shit about anyone. Not doubting that, but are there any stories out there or is it all just hearsay?

[niko_cee]

Duran to wherever for however many millions is full on Oscar/Ramirez to China level madness.

He's an absolute nobody who has done absolutely nothing in the game. 12 goals in 55 appearances for Villa. 17 in 74 for his previous employers. 2 in 15 for Colombia. How has he conned the world he's some sort of maverick genius?

[niko_cee]

Watching the highlights last night, I'm not sure I've ever seen a series of more fortunate/unfortunate goals than in that Lille game. Multiple extremely unfortunate own goals, other massive deflections either taking the ball into the net or to the feet of an attacker with an open goal. 6 goals scored by Lille off an xG of 1.15. Yikes.

[phonics]

Al Nassr have gone with Duran over Boniface then.

I see all this stuff that Duran is a lunatic who doesn't give a shit about anyone. Not doubting that, but are there any stories out there or is it all just hearsay?

John McGinn on Jhon Duran: “Big Jhon...he’s a bit nuts. He’s a nightmare sometimes to have in your team. But he has moments of quality, we need to try and keep his feet on the ground the next couple of days."Jhon doesn't have a scooby who they [Duran Duran] are. He does not have a clue. I mean Jhon I don't even think he knows he's actually in the city of Birmingham never mind who Duran Duran are. But, he's such a raw player, some days you think what a good boy, some days you think come on big man have a bit more respect. But he has everything to be one of the top strikers in the world and hopefully he can do that here."

[randomlegend]

Chelsea apparently still planning to come back in for Garnacho.

We would be absolute retards to sell him now, unless we've got a deal on a replacement fully lined up and ready to pull the trigger on.

Tel being talked about on loan but you'd really like to hope that's separate.

[randomlegend]

Watching the highlights last night, I'm not sure I've ever seen a series of more fortunate/unfortunate goals than in that Lille game. Multiple extremely unfortunate own goals, other massive deflections either taking the ball into the net or to the feet of an attacker with an open goal. 6 goals scored by Lille off an xG of 1.15. Yikes.

I don't think Liverpool's was much higher than that the last time they put 7 past us.

[niko_cee]

I don't think Liverpool's was much higher than that the last time they put 7 past us.

It wasn't 7 but wasn't it something like 3, which is still 'quite high' in xG terms? I do recall thinking at the time that there were some low percentage goals in there though.

Three own goals [!], although the BBC seem to be crediting Gomes with his, and almost all the goals as part of some goal mouth meleé.

[randomlegend]

Leipzig signing Xavi Simons for €50 (+30)m on a TWO year contract I'd absolutely deranged.

Are they seriously expecting someone to come in and pay more than that for him in the summer or what is the game plan?

They seem extremely likely to end up losing him for free.

[Gray Fox]

Saudi after Mitoma now. €70m or so offer rejected by Brighton, but I don't imagine it would take too much more for that to get done. I think they missed their big "cash cow" window for him already.

Spurs completely ignoring their problems and getting Tel for £60m+ would also be lol.

[Luke Emia]

Yeah, much the same as City why are these clubs shelling out big money on players who don’t seem to fix any of their seemingly obvious flaws.

Both City and Spurs could do with a decent centre midfielder but no moves to sort that.

[niko_cee]

Mitoma's decent but Brighton would be insane to turn down that sort of money for him. They've probably got 3 or 4 next cabs off the rank lined up already.

That that sort of money isn't considered big cash cow money equally mental.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why are the Saudis offering Brighton in euros?

[Jimmy Floyd]

And also, Mitoma's decent attacking play or six brand new primary schools? You decide (I'm going to keep doing this).

[Waffdon]

Garnacho bid incoming from Chelsea. :lol:

[Ben]

Europa League's effort at repeating the carnage of last night is vastly underdelivering here. Disappointing.

[Dquincy]

Chelsea apparently still planning to come back in for Garnacho.

We would be absolute retards to sell him now, unless we've got a deal on a replacement fully lined up and ready to pull the trigger on.

Tel being talked about on loan but you'd really like to hope that's separate.

Maybe FFP/balancing the books is forcing their hand with this.

[John Arne]

Brest vs PSG (will play Liverpool or Barca)
Monaco vs Benfica (will play Liverpool or Barca)
PSV vs Juventus (v Arsenal or Inter)
AC Milan vs Feyenoord (v Arsenal or Inter)
Manchester City vs Real Madrid (v Athletico or Loserkusen)
Celtic vs Bayern Munich (v Athletico or Loserkusen)
Club Brugge vs Atalanta (v Lille or Villa)
Sporting vs Borussia Dortmund (v Lille or Villa)

[niko_cee]

Whichever of City or Madrid get knocked out in that one are going to be all in on changing the format so such an outrage can't happen again.

[niko_cee]

Thought they'd rather unexpectedly done the draw for the last 16 proper but I see the BBC are just mocking up either/ors.

Depending on how the top 8 get allocated the bottom half of the draw could be quite soft.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I feel like Sporting v Dortmund has happened about 400 times in my life. Could be making it up.

[John Arne]

Thought they'd rather unexpectedly done the draw for the last 16 proper but I see the BBC are just mocking up either/ors.

Depending on how the top 8 get allocated the bottom half of the draw could be quite soft.

They kinda have. Have updated to include last 16 opponents. No idea why it's still an option of 2.

Edit: from what I can tell, UEFA are really just going to hold ANOTHER draw for fun (warm ball).

[John Arne]

This is clearer.

https://gyazo.com/328ce04427f8fe3a60684ec53a65ee5d.jpeg

[Jimmy Floyd]

Ban ket in the semi-finals but then chung it in the final. Somewhat mixed messaging.

[John Arne]

Ban ket in the semi-finals but then chung it in the final. Somewhat mixed messaging.

Chung kết > báng kết

[Luke Emia]

If you are Liverpool or Barcelona there is definitely a preferred side of the draw to be on and it's not the one with already guaranteed PSG, Man City/Real Madrid plus one of Inter or Arsenal potentially as well. That City/R.Madrid section of the draw could end up as absolute fucking carnage.

[Manc]

Brighton rejecting £75m for Mitoma. :cab:

[Ben]

:cab: indeed.

[randomlegend]

United lining up Quenda for the summer :drool:

[Danny]

Henderson throwing a strop at Ajax as they wont let him chase his dreams of moving to another tax haven

[niko_cee]

Brighton rejecting £75m for Mitoma. :cab:

It sounds like it was as much Mitoma having no real interest in going there as it was Brighton having no interest in selling him.

[Ben]

I think we briefly touched on it but Spurs buying Tel for £50m is insanity. Solanke is already one of their better players. Are they just going to vibe the rest of the season without a midfield?

[randomlegend]

Tel fucking Spurs off to Levy's face is amazing :D

[Ben]

:cool:

[Shindig]

Duran out, Rashford in. :cab:

[Clunge]

Loan enquiry. So long as it's not costing us the earth to take him, I'd be happy to take the risk for the rest of the season.

[Giggles]

Signing of the window :drool:

1886845263488192936

[SincereTheRebel]

Does he mean top or bottom?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Power bottom.

[Luke Emia]

Signing of the window :drool:

1886845263488192936

Not if he’s going to Spurs. Poor lad is fucked before he even starts.

[Giggles]

Not if he’s going to Spurs. Poor lad is fucked before he even starts.

Very likely true alright. Plus, he'll have some 39 year old slogger trying to snap him in half each week for the whole of next season too.