January Football: it's just the way we play, mate

[Gray Fox]

Yes but if you're not the best at everything then you must be absolutely awful, remember.

[igor_balis]

Reminds me of Roy Keane's absolutely appalling analysis - literally any bad performance is due to a lack of DETERMINATION, BOTTLE, MENTALITY. He was saying that Walker has been shit recently because he can't handle the pressure of the media criticism - e.g. MENTALITY - rather than him just getting old.

[Dquincy]

I don't think it's unreasonable to say Arsenal lack a certain mental resilience when you consider them bottling the title race last season and also finishing as the bridesmaid for the last three seasons.

[Gray Fox]

I also don't think it helps that, that was very much Arteta as a player too. You need that first one to get the monkey off your back so to speak.

I look at Klopp here and in terms of trophy count, he really didn't start to do anything until that Champions League win. Yet if you only look at the trophies, you don't take into account the seasons where he got us to a high 90s point finish and came second. Just because we didn't win those times, didn't mean we were suddenly bad. Yet, when he got that first one, cup finals became very common and the trophies flowed nicely.

This Arsenal team is 1, maybe 2 players away from being what he wants and what will get him there. The bad luck comes in here that this would/still could be a great chance as City need to spend again and Liverpool have already had a couple of wobbles so far. But the players keep breaking down and he has to play Havertz up front.

[Clunge]

Don't think I've enjoyed a Villa quite so much given I had to consume it in dribs and drabs on the tube, in a Sainsbury's and on a bus. Might have caused a small scene on the bus when Arsenal got VAR'd at the end :D.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If anything I'd say they have more mental resilience than average. Showed a lot of it in the City game, for example, and in various forgotten wins. They just aren't as good at football as Liverpool are.

[igor_balis]

It's just trying to build narratives in the WWEification of footy ennit

[Luke Emia]

I just feel like they don’t have that extra bit to get across the line, they have basically sacked the cup competitions off in the past 2 years when the Europa League in 22/23 would have been a good chance for them to win a trophy for example as they were comfortably the best team in it. I feel there’s something in that, you might only have a top team for 2/3 years you have to win things in that timescale but once you get across the line once it makes the next one easier.

Also in the league their actual points totals have only been close because City have dropped off a bit from their mental totals as well. If you look at them this season they look like they will struggle to break 80 points based on the points they currently have and they don’t strike me as if they are going to win 15 of the last 16 for example.

[Waffdon]

Liverpool have thrown away more point leads in the league in the recent years than Arsenal :lol:

[phonics]

I just feel like they don’t have that extra bit to get across the line, they have basically sacked the cup competitions off in the past 2 years when the Europa League in 22/23 would have been a good chance for them to win a trophy for example as they were comfortably the best team in it. I feel there’s something in that, you might only have a top team for 2/3 years you have to win things in that timescale but once you get across the line once it makes the next one easier.

Also in the league their actual points totals have only been close because City have dropped off a bit from their mental totals as well. If you look at them this season they look like they will struggle to break 80 points based on the points they currently have and they don’t strike me as if they are going to win 15 of the last 16 for example.

You’re literally talking about Liverpool. Youre just making things up because it’s not the team you like. The Europa League that we sacked off would be the one where we rushed back Saliba who then got a big injury resulting in us playing Rob Holding in a title decider vs City. Just say ‘I don’t like Arsenal’ next time instead of inventing reasons why you’re actually able to understand what ‘winning mentality’ is when you’re just a bloke who sells mortgages in Norwich. MarkFromPeepShowWankSign.gif.

[Luke Emia]

You’re literally talking about Liverpool. Youre just making things up because it’s not the team you like. The Europa League that we sacked off would be the one where we rushed back Saliba who then got a big injury resulting in us playing Rob Holding in a title decider vs City. Just say ‘I don’t like Arsenal’ next time instead of inventing reasons why you’re actually able to understand what ‘winning mentality’ is when you’re just a bloke who sells mortgages in Norwich. MarkFromPeepShowWankSign.gif.

I don’t live in Norwich. Spot on with the rest though…

[niko_cee]

I feel there are definitely more teams that can take points off each other this season than there has been for a while, which probably doesn't help with Arsenal's style of solidly doing enough - before they could grind more teams to death, now some of those teams are fighting back and stealing points. They've had too many draws. Not really sure how that squares with Liverpool pissing everything though, as they are nowhere near the level of those 90 point season teams. Maybe their approach, which appears to be more accepting of risk, but also having a good blend of quality, strength in depth and experience, works better in those fine margin games.

A relentless City could still chase them down if they were in Arsenal's position, but I'm not sure this Arsenal have it in them. I wonder how many dry seasons until Saka and Saliba look for pastures new?

[phonics]

I feel there are definitely more teams that can take points off each other this season than there has been for a while, which probably doesn't help with Arsenal's style of solidly doing enough - before they could grind more teams to death, now some of those teams are fighting back and stealing points. They've had too many draws. Not really sure how that squares with Liverpool pissing everything though, as they are nowhere near the level of those 90 point season teams. Maybe their approach, which appears to be more accepting of risk, but also having a good blend of quality, strength in depth and experience, works better in those fine margin games.

A relentless City could still chase them down if they were in Arsenal's position, but I'm not sure this Arsenal have it in them. I wonder how many dry seasons until Saka and Saliba look for pastures new?

I think Salah scoring 18 goals and assisting 13 more in 21 games might have a larger influence than '%age risk approach per 90'. The margins are thin, Arsenal have had 1 of their 2 best attacking players out for 5 months by the time Sakas back and Salahs gone on a career high run and Liverpool are still only 4 points ahead. It's got fuck all to do with mentality or tactics. Good players play well and bad players play bad and decisions need to go your way in the Premier League sponsored by Howard Webb.

[niko_cee]

:drool:

The seethe is real.

Whilst I approve of the sentiment, isn't everything in modern football about percentage risk or benefit of X, shape, structure, tactics, discipline?

Mentality is a bit like the victor's justice that comes after a war.

[phonics]

:drool:

The seethe is real.

Whilst I approve of the sentiment, isn't everything in modern football about percentage risk or benefit of X, shape, structure, tactics, discipline?

Mentality is a bit like the victor's justice that comes after a war.

One Hundred Percent. My reaction might be slightly affected by my Christmas visit to my cousins and her Liverpool supporting husband who's really into AI and when I mentioned the red cards earlier on in the season asked if I 'wanted to see a graph' and I wanted to keep access to the wine cellar so I pretended to agree with him.

[AJ23]

Bournemouth were bloody impressive.

Both teams were unbeaten in 8 odd games and Bournemouth, without their main striker, and injuries to other key players just took Newcastle to the cleaners.

Shows you if you have the structure and team spirit, others just step in and do the role.

If it wasn’t for Forest, Bournemouth would be the surprise package everyone is talking about. In fact, I think they should start talking about them now.

Mad season where the elite is getting tested not just one but by a few.

[niko_cee]

That Havertz goal being disallowed is such a stupid consequence of VAR.

In other VAR moaning I'm not sure how I feel about Bournemouth having that goal disallowed for it having gone out. It's not like it went out in the phase of play directly before the goal, as in it was a cross that was clearly out, it was a clearance, if Newcastle had gone up the other end and scored would it have been ruled out? If Bournemouth had had the ball, but not scored, and then Newcastle went up the pitch and scored would it have been ruled out? What is the time proximity? The fact the ball went out had no bearing on the goal and provided no advantage to Bournemouth and yet here we are.

At least it had no bearing on the result. Bournemouth looked ridiculously good, particularly considering they have as much right as anyone to complain about injuries. Good job they didn't sack Andoni after losing his first 4 games or whatever it was.

[Kikó]

Did the ball going out of play have any impact on the goal? What am I reading?

[wullie]

Despite spending the first 10 minutes defending as if I was playing, we beat Bristol City 1-0 yesterday to make it three home clean sheets in a row. Another Frank Lampard defensive masterclass

[niko_cee]

Did the ball going out of play have any impact on the goal? What am I reading?

Not really, but yeah, it's hard to explain.

Bournemouth were on the attack and the consequence was the ball ended up heading out for what was going to be a corner. Tonali volleyed it clear to prevent the corner and it ended up around the middle of the defensive half with a Bournemouth player, who then may or may not have played it to another player, the ball ended up going out wide, getting crossed and then Bournemouth scored. And then VAR wound it back however many seconds and gave Bournemouth the corner. Just felt there was a lack of any immediate link between the goal and the thing that was used to rule out the goal.

I think the contrast was that level of intervention, when goals scored from incorrectly awarded set pieces [ref Arsenal v Spurs] where there is a much stronger causal link between the error and the outcome are 'out of scope' - the quest for consistency is a myth, as is the case in all video review systems. 'Unfair' outcomes are inevitable.

[Spikey M]

We were well beaten, by a much better team and it was the difference between a 3-1 loss and a 3-0 loss, but Southend had this disallowed yesterday.

1880725743283610016?t=e2csr5_G0-zbji5B5tx71Q&s=19

1880652741397373116?t=AdkGdukMI0nrfNI8PZ2Cow&s=19

[Yevrah]

Get VAR in.

[Jimmy Floyd]

At lower levels they should clearly just err on the side of letting things go. A lot of referees are really anti that though.

Far better to allow a goal that was marginally offside/whatever than to disallow one which was marginally legal. But a lot of them (I read a lot of reffing discussions to help with my umpiring) are massively pro whistle.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Another absolutely useless goalkeeper in the Spurs net. No doubt they signed him as their number 2/3 due to being 'good with his feet'.

[randomlegend]

Refereeing so far in the United game has been absolutely appalling.

[John Arne]

How does Fernandes get away with all the petulant shit he pulls off?

[randomlegend]

Yeah like the Arsenal game where he got booked for Jesus kicking his boot off.

[John Arne]

This Spurs-Everton game is outrageously low quality. Neither team can defend for shit. Dragusin and Branthwaite are both trash.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Branthwaite is nothing more than a clumsy oaf. I've never understood why the clever people think him to be so special.

[Jimmy Floyd]

And there's Dragusin who should still be playing for FC Brasov or whoever. Are there really not better players than him in the Championship and League One that they could sign?

[John Arne]

Spurs need to realise that Bergvall is not a holding midfielder. Players running off him for fun.

Cracking goal from Ndiaye. Big Ange gone tonight, I reckon.

[John Arne]

And there's Dragusin who should still be playing for FC Brasov or whoever. Are there really not better players than him in the Championship and League One that they could sign?

Indeed. Didn't see much of him last season, but there was a lot of hype. Whenever I've seen him this season, he's been a bit of a carthorse.

[Kikó]

Zirkzee is starting to look like a footballer.

[Spikey M]

How is Ange "Ange" Postecoglu still in the job? It was a fun little experiment, but it's been clear for some time that this doesn't work in a proper league. Maybe it would work for City, but clearly not for Spurs.

They probably should have beaten West Ham to Potter.

[John Arne]

Dragusin now appears to be getting stitched up on the field. 5 minute stoppage for a little cut on his eyebrow. #WhenIWasALad

Edit: taking his shirt off in a way as to not mess up his hair :D Would would Roy Keane say....

[John Arne]

Ange to be the first EPL manager sacked at half time?

[Gray Fox]

I think they give Ange the semi-final. If Liverpool turn it around on him, he's done.

That said, didn't this lot sack Mourinho a day before the league cup final before?

[Giggles]

Didn't they sack Jol during a game?

[-james-]

How is Ange "Ange" Postecoglu still in the job? It was a fun little experiment, but it's been clear for some time that this doesn't work in a proper league. Maybe it would work for City, but clearly not for Spurs.

They probably should have beaten West Ham to Potter.

I dunno, how many of this line-up are in their first choice eleven? Porro, Son, Maddison, Kulusevski? Dragusin is miles out of his depth and Gray was only getting the odd minute at his preferred position before being shoved in at centre back.

I reckon they'll keep him and be good again next season.

[niko_cee]

You'd think they'd give him the semi, but then, if this lot turn up and just the play we way mate it they'll likely get spannered and not be in a cup final, whereas a new manager boost defensive shithouse might just get them there.

[Spikey M]

I dunno, how many of this line-up are in their first choice eleven? Porro, Son, Maddison, Kulusevski? Dragusin is miles out of his depth and Gray was only getting the odd minute at his preferred position before being shoved in at centre back.

I reckon they'll keep him and be good again next season.

They have a lot of injuries, but that has been the case for most of his tenure and, remember, this is Everton. Nobody serious loses to Everton.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I know what I'm doing with the monthly thread titles.

[Waffdon]

I hope that Hudson Odoi injury isn’t bad. Blowing his leg up 5/6 years ago nearly cost him but he’s been brilliant for a year again now. The original star boy

[Waffdon]

City are BACK.

[Shindig]

I know what I'm doing with the monthly thread titles.

The Evertonian I was watching the game with thanks you for your service.

[niko_cee]

City are BACK.

I was thinking this, and checked, their maximum points is 86 in the league. Think they're too far back, thankfully.

[Waffdon]

I’m kidding, they literally threw a 2 goal lead away a few days ago. Easy win next week though and imagine they’ll finish 2nd or at least 3rd with absolute ease. They’ll probably bring someone else in as well just because why not

[Dquincy]

Yeah like the Arsenal game where he got booked for Jesus kicking his boot off.

Was that the one where Fernandes threw the boot in frustration. Seems like he's lacking mental resilience.

[Dquincy]

Amorin saying this Man Utd team is the worst in their history (according to the headline). Seems a bit harsh.

[niko_cee]

I’m kidding, they literally threw a 2 goal lead away a few days ago. Easy win next week though and imagine they’ll finish 2nd or at least 3rd with absolute ease. They’ll probably bring someone else in as well just because why not

Also had the same thought but didn't want to rag on brave on the ball Ipswich too much seeing as Liverpool play them next. They're about to spaff hundreds of millions on transfers so I reckon they're more likely to be back than not. That said, hopefully Salah Mk2 goes the way of most expensive striker acquisitions from Eintracht Frankfurt.

[niko_cee]

Amorin saying this Man Utd team is the worst in their history (according to the headline). Seems a bit harsh.

In a somewhat similar vein, why have Southampton replaced Russel Martin with an even worse foreigner who seems intent on the same idiotic approach?

[AJ23]

Be very surprised if Ange Impostercoglu is not gone by tomorrow.

Would be a shame though, his post-match interviews after a loss are always a good laugh in how snarky he is.

Can never look the interviewer in the eyes. At least Pep does that. Basic manners, MATE.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In a somewhat similar vein, why have Southampton replaced Russel Martin with an even worse foreigner who seems intent on the same idiotic approach?

Because the data.

Optimised sport, there's no other way, except that there is, but there isn't.

[Ben]

Someone at work just pointed out to me that Haaland's new contract is 115 months. Top tier trolling. :D

[Waffdon]

Chelsea recalling the wrong player on loan at Strasbourg sums up the horrendous regime. You have literally the best young midfielder in the league (if not best midfielder based on form this season) and you recall some American left back :sick:

[Spikey M]

Chelsea recalling the wrong player on loan

What? :D

[niko_cee]

I was confused at first and thought you were referring to the premier league, which got me to wondering by what measure Lesley Ugochukwu could be considered the best midfielder in the league, but assume you mean Ligue Un and Andrey couldn't get a game for Nottingham Forest Santos. I suppose that's not much of a criticism anymore, mind.

[Waffdon]

He’s class. He was just the victim last year of being signed and then Forest signing 3 more midfielders on deadline day. They’re never gonna give preference to a loan player from another club.

Even Ugochukwu would do, you can’t go half a season with 3 midfielders and 1 of them being perma crocked Lavia. They have to recall somebody because they’re starting the money laundering early and signing someone from Strasbourg for 20m and loaning back but can only do that if they recall someone. The summer window will go down as an all time stinker. Failed at selling so many players (and even recalled one now) and a couple of your signings are already being touted for being sold (KDH, Viega, Tosin and Felix). They were in a decent position in the summer only needing to bring a striker in and midfielder. That went well.

[Magic]

If Spurs keep shitting the bed like this there's no way we'll be able to sign Solomon...even though the chances were low anyway if we get promoted.

[Jimmy Floyd]

My man in the know told me that Nduku will leave. I've called him Nduku because I can't remember his fucking name. Winger lad with a hairband who likes to cut back onto his left.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Madueke. I can remember things from 1996 in exhaustive detail, but not this.

[Waffdon]

:D

He has Newcastle all over him and will be excellent, as is the norm.

Chelsea keep getting linked with Garnacho. This obsession with wingers is something.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Although Garnacho has the look of a disgusting fanny and I think United fans have gone off him, I always fear him when we play them, so get it done.

[Manc]

Villa rejecting £57m for Duran is wild.

[Gray Fox]

Not as wild as West Ham thinking he'd join them.

[Ben]

West Ham would have got him for less than that in the summer if they had something about them. Seems to me like one of those "well we tried didn't we" moves to appease the fanbase.

[Luke Emia]

Duran looks like he has the potential to be a very good striker. But, he seems to make most of his impact from the bench. Doesn't seem to be quite as good when he starts - like a modern day Tore-Andre Flo, just from what I have seen of him but I could be wrong.

[Luke Emia]

Sir Marcus may not be able to find himself a new club by the looks of it. Could get a bit messy for him.

[phonics]

Durans an absolute nutter and just so happens to have scored 12 goals from 5xG. It'll be a terrible idea.

[Ben]

Surely Chelsea have better than Sanchez?

[Giggles]

The Doc, the useless prick :cool:

[randomlegend]

Sir Marcus may not be able to find himself a new club by the looks of it. Could get a bit messy for him.

With the story Ducker is running it sounds like he's realised nobody good actually wants him and he's trying to come crawling back.

I don't think he's quite the demon he's been painted as, but it'll be better for all parties for him to move on from United at this point.

Antony off on loan to Betis. United after Dorgu from Lecce. Be interesting to see if we can keep a left back going for more than a few months before some part of their lower anatomy explodes.

[Luke Emia]

Rashford is not a terrible player. But he prances round the pitch like he’s putting up Messi/Ronaldo numbers. Plus he’s paid Salah money and putting up Sancho level goals and assists. No one in their right minds would take him off United’s hands with the contract he has.

It feels like he thought massive clubs would be lining up to sign him as well. His brother is his agent as well isn’t he? Have this dopey cunts learnt nothing from Harry Kane?

[Manc]

Garnacho to Chelsea is the ultimate Boehly era transfer. Young forward underappreciated by rivals signed for inflated price.

[Raoul Duke]

Garnacho to Chelsea is the ultimate Boehly era transfer. Young forward underappreciated by rivals signed for inflated price.

Hey, we bought Mason Mount off them, fair's fair

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

£60m for him? lol.

[Dquincy]

If Man Utd get anything upwards of £50m for Rashford, they'd surely be pleased with that. But I'm not sure what club (that can afford him) would want him when you look at his recent stats and lack of effort off the ball.

[randomlegend]

£50m lol.

If he goes it'll be on some crappy loan with option where we cover part of his wages.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Surely Chelsea have better than Sanchez?

We do, but 'distribution', so the useless wanker plays every week and then the club social media gives it WHAT A KEEPER for a week when he routinely tips one over the bar.

[igor_balis]

Apparently £50m is the "market value" for rashford, but considering you are basically obligated to pay 300k/week as well, shirley in practical terms he's worth a lot less? I doubt anyone sensible would want him for five mil let alone fifty.

[Yevrah]

Add Rashford to my footballing e-victories list.

[Lofty]

Rashford's wages are like Aubameyang's at Arsenal and he'll need to leave on virtually a free to shift him. His attitude reminds me of Walcott when he tried to negotiate a better contract claiming Liverpool were in for him then they swiftly said 'err nah lad' :D

[Lewis]

Rashford is very good at carrying the ball (not dribbling or beating players) and shooting, and average to crap at everything else. He would be very good for whoever plays counter-attacking shite these days, probably doing twenty-ish goals a season for them, but that isn't anybody prestigious or willing to pay three hundred grand a week. If David Moyes gets Everton going again that would be a solid move.

[AJ23]

Duran is another Balotelli. Great talent but he's got a personality that seems hard to manage. Needs a manager like Potter, who won't give him a hard time and will make him the main man.

I see where West Ham are coming from with that. Especially after Antonio's absence. They need a presence up front.

[AJ23]

Rashford is very good at carrying the ball (not dribbling or beating players) and shooting, and average to crap at everything else. He would be very good for whoever plays counter-attacking shite these days, probably doing twenty-ish goals a season for them, but that isn't anybody prestigious or willing to pay three hundred grand a week. If David Moyes gets Everton going again that would be a solid move.

His style would be great for Forest, but whether they'd pay those wages is another question. He needs to think about his school dinner MBE stuff and come back down to earth a little bit.

[Clunge]

If any club tips £70m for Duran, I’d bite their hand off pronto. I do genuinely think he has massive - even generational - talent, he is so complete for someone of his age. He doesn’t strictly excel at anything, but he’s got attributes across the board. However, it’ll take a hell of a maverick manager to do so and then control the monster of their creation too. Emery just isn’t that guy, he is far too obsessed with order, process and graft. I do think he’s less mental than Balotelli, but I can see the comparison.

[Waffdon]

It’s stupid at how good Reece James is. Out for months at a time and without fail every single time he’s a class above everyone on the pitch when he plays with no match fitness. If my gran had balls blah blah blah but if he didn’t have dodgy hamstrings he’d finish his career on a level with Ashley Cole. There’s no one like him. Built like a truck and turns like a fairy

[Ben]

There was a break from Wolves off a Chelsea set piece and as James was tracking back alongside the Wolves player, you could tell he didn't dare sprint at full tilt. Such a shame he probably won't ever be 100% fit again.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Given that the fifth CL spot looks fairly good to go this year (Italy and, bizarrely, Portugal are the others in the top three) and that you'd expect Arsenal and City to finish two and three, I'd say the main interest for the rest of the season is which of Chelsea, Forest, Newcastle, Villa and anyone else who fancies getting involved will get those 4th and 5th places.

[Luke Emia]

You'd imagine on this Duran thing his 'people' have given West Ham the go to bid for him and told them he would go if it was accepted. You also wonder if it's an attempt by them/him to flush out a bigger club and get them to offer.

[Ben]

You also wonder if it's an attempt by them/him to flush out a bigger club and get them to offer.

This has to be it. Getting decent game time at a Champions League club (with a very good shot of qualifying again) is light years ahead of being the main man at a perennial underachiever.

[Manc]

Given that the fifth CL spot looks fairly good to go this year (Italy and, bizarrely, Portugal are the others in the top three) and that you'd expect Arsenal and City to finish two and three, I'd say the main interest for the rest of the season is which of Chelsea, Forest, Newcastle, Villa and anyone else who fancies getting involved will get those 4th and 5th places.

Sleeping on Bournemouth.

[niko_cee]

Quite funny that there's a legit chance of three french teams in the champions league top 8 and PSG miss out all together.

[niko_cee]

For those interested the Liverpool game is on Prime. Has that been going through the group phase or is the first game they've had? Lille seem pretty decent, if a bit fraught/mad in their approach.

[Luke Emia]

I think they have had 2 games a week/1 a night. The Milan game was on Prime.

[niko_cee]

For my previous praise of Lille they aren't half a bunch of fall over and moan diving cunts, have they relocated from the harsh realities of industrial Northern France to sunnier southern climes?

[Manc]

Atleti are some watch. Minimal interest in playing football, maximum histrionics.

[niko_cee]

Salah's lapsing into being a bit of a selfish so and so again.

[Luke Emia]

Anyone know if we get the trophy tonight? Or do we have to wait till next week?

[niko_cee]

They're going to do that NFL unbeaten season thing where they go 8-0 and then lose in the first knock out round they're in, probably against Real Madrid.

[Magic]

Raphina. Can't believe he played for us. :drool:

[niko_cee]

Does it make any difference between finishing first or second or can Liverpool send the youth team to Eindhoven?

[Waffdon]

Raphina. Can't believe he played for us. :drool:

He’s genuinely been the best player in the world this season

[phonics]

Does it make any difference between finishing first or second or can Liverpool send the youth team to Eindhoven?

Going to guess that 1 will play the winner of 9 v 16 nfl style so it depends on where things land.

[AJ23]

Liverpool are a winning machine this season.

There’s clearly a way to beat them and it’s not by trying to match their footballing style and superior skills.

Atletico Madrid would have their number I reckon. Defensively strong. Counter attacking. Shit housing.

Teams need to figure this out. Do not go toe to toe with them. Get in their head like Forest have done.

[Adramelch]

Watching the highlights of the Benfica-Barcelona game, it was just horrendous defending/goalkeeping outdone by even worse refereeing.

[niko_cee]

Going to guess that 1 will play the winner of 9 v 16 nfl style so it depends on where things land.

It would appear that being 1 or 2 doesn't make any particular difference as either of those will play whichever of 15-18 come through their play-off, but the exact draw will be random. They then end up on opposing sides of the draw so can't meet until the final. Does that mean the draw is then fully bracketed - ie no more draws, you can plot your Southgatian route to the final from the last 16 onwards?

[Jimmy Floyd]

If it's like the Conference League then it's bracketed once it's bracketed, if that makes sense, which it doesn't.

Has anyone yet called this silly intermediate knockout round the 'Penultimate 16' ? If not then I will.

[niko_cee]

The mild card round.

[Waffdon]

Chelsea signing Tyler Dibling for £50m would be peak Chelsea considering they got him for a developmental fee 2 years ago and then let him go back to Southampton for free after a month because he was home sick

[Luke Emia]

I saw earlier and I don’t know how true it is that Chelsea want £70 million for Nkunku to allow him to leave. What planet are they on?

Also why are they still seemingly trying to sign players. But, not a goalkeeper, centre half or another striker which are the actual positions they do need to improve. They seem to just be about signing wingers.

[niko_cee]

Same planet that Liverpool want £85m for Darwin.

Who Chelsea also want, apparently. :cab:

[Waffdon]

I saw earlier and I don’t know how true it is that Chelsea want £70 million for Nkunku to allow him to leave. What planet are they on?

Also why are they still seemingly trying to sign players. But, not a goalkeeper, centre half or another striker which are the actual positions they do need to improve. They seem to just be about signing wingers.

It’s properly odd. The work last season was actually pretty good on the face of it, a lot of the signings have been hits. This past summer was an utter joke and has set them back another few years and doesn’t look like stopping anytime soon. The winger obsession is odd as is refusing to sign a centre mid (or recall someone) and run caicedo into an early retirement

[Luke Emia]

It feels like they either should just get a sticker book and do ‘swaps’ or that they just have to keep churning through player trading to keep the books balanced. Which is mad because you could see the beginnings of something at the end of last season and it didn’t need 4/5/6 new players it needed a top quality defender with a bit of experience to replace Silva, another midfielder to add some depth, a top quality keeper and another striker to play when Jackson has his slumps.

Instead of that they seem to have signed about 15 players none of whom seem to fill any of the roles above. It seems almost like an act of self sabotage.

[Luke Emia]

Same planet that Liverpool want £85m for Darwin.

Who Chelsea also want, apparently. :cab:

Do they? I suppose you could say that he’s done a lot more in the league than Nkunku.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They're not trying to build a team, they're just moving people through a spreadsheet. Quite hard as a fan to become attached to any of them, but I suppose non league fans seem happy to watch a new side every six weeks.

[niko_cee]

The plum draw for winning the league game against 15th to 18th currently has Bayern, Real and Juve in three of those four spots.

How the fuck are Feyenoord two up against Harry Kane's Bavarian Bombers?

[Luke Emia]

Man City - Mentality Midgets.

[niko_cee]

Celtic have been steadily going down the toilet after what felt like a strong start to the group phase. Surely they can beat a bunch of young boys?

[-james-]

Celtic are just unfathomably shit in Europe. Proper embarrassing.

[-james-]

Timing. Get in.

[AJ23]

That Feyenoord goalkeeper had the game of his life. Does he always play like that?

[niko_cee]

City have signed Marmoush.

Have they always referred to themselves as the Cityzens or is that a new thing? :sick:

[John Arne]

Always have. Shit nickname.

[niko_cee]

I meant more with the use of the 'y' rather than the normal spelling.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It was Citizens before. Second i massively dilutes the brand of course.

[Adramelch]

That first touch for Feyenoord's first goal by Gimenez is quite something.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Kyle Walker is going out on loan to AC Milan.

[niko_cee]

Sebastian Haller - £45m
Luka Jovic - £50m
Randal Kolo Muani - £81m! :eek:
Omar Marmoush - £59m

Some serious sales there [for some serious shit] for Frankfurt.

[Manc]

Attacking output in the Bundesliga should be completely ignored at this point.

[Giggles]

Omobamidele to France. Hopefully he gets on a well as Jake O'Brien did over there.

[Waffdon]

he’ll certainly be made to defend under Liam Rosenior

[Shindig]

Almiron back to Atlanta for £10m. Small change, really.

[Ben]

Atlanta have (had?) £20m on the table for our centre forward. I don’t know whether the Almiron deal is a sign they’ve pulled out or they’re going balls to the wall. £20m would be an MLS record.

[randomlegend]

The goal we've just had disallowed :D

Fucking refs man, it's insane.

[Ben]

Ally McCoist :cool:

[niko_cee]

United blaming PSR for having to put up ticket prices is a bit of a dark days for football thing.

Imagine if they itemised a levy on ticket prices/tv subscriptions to pay for all the VAR paraphernalia.

[Ben]

PSR/FFP needs to fuck off. It clearly doesn't stop basket cases (eg. Derby), all the while you've got Newcastle with the richest owners in the world having to sell Almiron to do any incoming business.

[Kikó]

Favella Is going to Betis. Taz e victory in the bag.

[John Arne]

Gravenberch is so, so good. Player of the season form right now.

[Gray Fox]

With this likely to be 3+ goals to the good at HT, I'd like to see Danns put on.

In other news Arsenal are down to 10 men and there appears to be much confusion as to why.

[niko_cee]

Sounds like a comedy penalty int he Brighton game.

And a seethe bomb may have just detonated in North London.

[Shindig]

Red card for tripping someone 70 yards out is ... controversial.

[John Arne]

I'm glad he got red. Those type of professional fouls should always be red (professional foul + it was a bit nasty). Absolutely ZERO intention to get the ball.

[phonics]

Making up the rules again. Ah just seen it's Michael Oliver again. Of course it is.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Strayed into violent conduct for me, Clive.

[niko_cee]

Serious foul play. Not seen it, are we talking McGinn level booting here or a simple trip? There is an argument that deliberately kicking the player with obviously no intent other than to do so should be a red card.

[Gray Fox]

This would explain it somewhat.

https://i.gyazo.com/6246f134b24156f45fb0e08dc47b8c4f.jpg

[niko_cee]

Just seen it.

:lol:

That's a ridiculous decision.

[Lofty]

https://streamff.com/v/490557e7

It's a yellow and Oliver has form for ridiculous sendings off in this fixture, yet when he reffed City Arsenal and Kovacic was 2 footing people he let it ride :moop:

Red will be overturned monday 100%

[Jimmy Floyd]

Football would be a much better sport if these were all reds. Oliver doing god's work.

Think the raised foot must have looked worse from ref's angle.

[phonics]

Good process lads. I cannot wait for Howard Webb to get booted out. Probably sits there seething at Mikel Arteras perfect hair and starts sending out emails on how to find a new way to screw Arsenal over.

[Gray Fox]

If we do ever get the sin bin or orange card or what have you, that kind of cynical challenge is exactly what should get you in there.

[phonics]

Just realised that he’ll be suspended for 3 games for that. Just a perfect, perfect process.

[John Arne]

I was just about to post that Trent's crossing has been pretty crap today, then he does that. Looks onside to me.

[Waffdon]

Chelsea should beat that City team but they won’t as they’ll hand City a couple of goals (probably from a Sanchez error)

Sancho against Nunes shouldn’t even be a contest

[Luke Emia]

Chance to turn from Mentality Midgets to Mentality Monsters here.

[John Arne]

Enciso a tad lucky not to see red there.

[Ben]

Bournemouth :cool:

[Waffdon]

Bournemouth :cool:

Swear they win every week, not sure how they’re only level with 6th. And unlike Forest they haven’t been massively over performing their underlining numbers. Swear they’ve won every big game as well (other than Chelsea x2 :henn0rz:)

[niko_cee]

Chance to stake their title credentials next weekend.

[phonics]

Howard Webb in shambles.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I can't imagine the level of self-absorption required to think that refereeing as an institution has an agenda against your favourite side.

Yet nearly all fanbases seem to genuinely believe it.

[Waffdon]

Chance to stake their title credentials next weekend.

They’re 13 behind having played a game more. Calm it, lad

[Waffdon]

Also, Frank Lampard :cool:

Only 6 off the play offs and hasn’t even had any Cobham help yet

[Luke Emia]

I can't imagine the level of self-absorption required to think that refereeing as an institution has an agenda against your favourite side.

Yet nearly all fanbases seem to genuinely believe it.

There’s a huge amount of Liverpool fans who think this. During the time of Fergie always blaming it on the referees instead of looking at the fact we had teams that included Kvarme, Xavier, Biscan, Diao, Diouf, Spearing, Adam, Borini and Carroll to name a few.

Referee’s are dogshit for everyone no matter what people think.

[Kikó]

Michael Oliver is just a terrible terrible referee who's probably bent as well (not calling him gay). He consistently makes terrible decisions.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why have City got a random Uzbek at the back? Have I missed a meeting?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Just get back to the steppe, lad.

[Ben]

Now a booking. Hell of a debut 3 minutes this.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Marmoush is going to flop so hard.

Also, lol at the Uzbek.

[Waffdon]

Jackson should absolutely dominate him physically.

Horrendous if Chelsea don’t romp this on the break now. Game is completely set up for them

[mo]

Now a booking. Hell of a debut 3 minutes this.

Own goal and a second yellow to surpass Woodgate’s Real debut I reckon.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I feel for the lad. Horrendous from Guardiola to launch him straight into a game like this. Poor, poor management.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Why have City got a random Uzbek at the back? Have I missed a meeting?

Paid like £40m for him too lol.

Lens only paid about £250k for him 18 months ago.

Edit: It was £84k.

[phonics]

Why does Joelinton get to assault people regularly every week and not even get a yellow.

[Shindig]

Pep's going to take the lad off after 20 minutes and then bully him on the bench.

[Waffdon]

Amazing. Chelsea go 1-0’up and now we await the missed chances before conceding in the 2nd half. Been happening for a month straight now

[Luke Emia]

Bald Fraud off today.

[Waffdon]

Madueke just refuses to even bother tracking back

[Jimmy Floyd]

Colwill getting booked for timewasting when in fact it's just that football is broken and footballers have no idea what to do when they're not being pressed.

[Waffdon]

Maresca repeatedly sticking up for this clown in goal will get him the sack. Embarrassing that he starts every week in the premier league

Could really do with Chelsea playing less narrow.

[Jimmy Floyd]

'Any pre match superstitions, Robert?'

'Yes, I always smear my goalie gloves in butter. Makes me feel secure out there.'

[niko_cee]

Bald Fraud off today.

Be well funny if he walks away after salting the earth with this latest batch of signings.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Both sets of central defenders might as well not be there.

[Waffdon]

This set up is an absolute disgrace. This is making Ange’s high line look like prime Sean Dyche. Maresca is god awful

[Ben]

Sanchez is pathetic.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Gary Neville calls for teams to adapt mid-game. More chance of Donald Trump piloting a winged sow and landing it in the centre circle.

[Waffdon]

I can’t get over this set up. Playing a ridiculously high line with both full backs incredibly narrow and allowing Man City’s full backs to run off all game. Playing a high line whilst deliberately giving up all the possession just makes no sense whatsoever.

City are utter tripe and they’ll win 4-1

[Ben]

Colwill is having just as much of a stinker as the Uzbek bairn.

[Manc]

Never to be seen again.

[Ben]

Sanchez is pathetic.

[Waffdon]

Hahahahaha

Sanchez and maresca summed up. 1v1 high line set up from the coach and that retard in goal. Throw them off a bridge for fuck sake

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

lol at Chelsea.

[Waffdon]

Haaland is utterly dog shit if he has no space. Enzo Maresca decides to leave him 1 v1 on the half way line at every available opportunity. Enzo Maresca is an idiot. Don’t be like Enzo Maresca.

[niko_cee]

Bald Fraud off today.

Did you mean the other one?

[Luke Emia]

Both.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Maresca is just like any modern coach, plan A is quite good a lot of the time, no other plan is in the locker whatsoever.

[phonics]

I can't imagine the level of self-absorption required to think that refereeing as an institution has an agenda against your favourite side.

Yet nearly all fanbases seem to genuinely believe it.

Do you remember the film Network? The film about a news anchor facing the sack due to declining ratings keeps his job after going on an unhinged rant. Consequently to keep the ratings going the supposed 'News' show gets ever increasingly absurd?

Could it be possible that Howard Webb tuned into BT Sport one day and saw Peter Walton sitting in a cupboard on his own while Rio Ferdinand berated him and simply said, 'Never Again.'


If so, I applaud Mr. Webb for a bang up job. Mike Deans got a seat on Soccer Saturday, Dermot Gallagher gets to turn up on Sky for the Monday shift of agreeing with every decision made on the weekend. The letters PGMOL have worn off various tabloid writers keyboards. They're the talk of the town. It's all going according to plan, all he had to do was come up with increasingly absurd ways to send off Arsenal players.


In Network, they cut a deal with a terrorist group for a new docudrama series called The Mao Tse-Tung Hour who eventually assinate the news anchor. My only hope is that Michael Owen can do the same.

[Ben]

Obsessed. Clear red card.

[phonics]

If it's so clear why is literally every pundit including Mike Dean who comments on it saying it's not a red.

Just FYI,

this was deemed a yellow in literally the same game:
https://i.imgur.com/Rgv9bHN.png


I know it won't come across this way but I don't think it's a concious Arsenal thing. I think the refs absolutely stink, are bad at their job and have a massive ego issue. That's problem 1 and 2. Problem 3 is that seemingly anyone that's not from the North West cannot get a job in the Premier League. Maybe they truly are the best this country has to offer but I somehow doubt that Lancashire has the refereeing equivalent of 'the cages' in South London that produces all these referees. Indicating that it's clearly an old boys club and the only way to the top is sucking each other off. I don't think it's malicious. I think it's a mixture of being bad and protected from punishment and inate biases.

[Giggles]

Jaysus I just looked at the results. Arsenal won, I could have swore they were 6-0 down when I looked at this earlier.

[phonics]

Then you clearly struggle to read seeing as nothing was mentioned about the game outside of the red card.

[Giggles]

Probably says more than anything.

[Shindig]

Giggles is result orientated, which I can applaud.

[Boydy]

Do you remember the film Network? The film about a news anchor facing the sack due to declining ratings keeps his job after going on an unhinged rant. Consequently to keep the ratings going the supposed 'News' show gets ever increasingly absurd?

Could it be possible that Howard Webb tuned into BT Sport one day and saw Peter Walton sitting in a cupboard on his own while Rio Ferdinand berated him and simply said, 'Never Again.'


If so, I applaud Mr. Webb for a bang up job. Mike Deans got a seat on Soccer Saturday, Dermot Gallagher gets to turn up on Sky for the Monday shift of agreeing with every decision made on the weekend. The letters PGMOL have worn off various tabloid writers keyboards. They're the talk of the town. It's all going according to plan, all he had to do was come up with increasingly absurd ways to send off Arsenal players.


In Network, they cut a deal with a terrorist group for a new docudrama series called The Mao Tse-Tung Hour who eventually assinate the news anchor. My only hope is that Michael Owen can do the same.

:nuts:

[phonics]

Heaven forbid someone try make a joke. For one, the only murder Michael Owen is capable of would be on the concept of entertaining and/or insightful televesion.

[randomlegend]

Yeah that post is unhinged :D

Excellent stuff.

[Danny]

Just FYI,

this was deemed a yellow in literally the same game

I think the ref gives him a straight red if he wasn’t on a yellow. As stupid as that sounds. He gets to say “well obviously it was a yellow” and no one is arguing that.

[Manc]

No issue with the Arsenal red. Zero intent to play for the ball, studs up. Get him walking.

[phonics]

Sorry have I fundamentally misunderstood the meaning of studs up or are we just making things up now?

https://i.imgur.com/qKSVpgA.png

[Jimmy Floyd]

The thing is that for you Arsenal is the centre of the (footballing) world and therefore whatever happens to it is emotionally multiplied by a thousand. Arsenal twitter is disproportionately populated by metropolitan numpties with too much time on their hands so the stills come out in force.

For Michael Oliver it's just another set of pricks wearing another coloured shirt, he doesn't give a shit, during the game he'll just be thinking gold v red and won't care who they are.

I still think it's a defensible red. Henry Winter did a teary tweet saying otherwise though so I will have to change my mind.

[phonics]

I think the ref gives him a straight red if he wasn’t on a yellow. As stupid as that sounds. He gets to say “well obviously it was a yellow” and no one is arguing that.

So the guy two footing a player vertically gets suspended for two less games because he'd already committed an offense. Makes sense.

edit: Rewatching that Gomes one, it is definitely a yellow and not a red. Guys just reaching the ball and misses by half a second.


For Michael Oliver it's just another set of pricks wearing another coloured shirt, he doesn't give a shit, during the game he'll just be thinking gold v red and won't care who they are.

This just isn't true of literally any human being that has ever existed on earth.

[Waffdon]

It wasn’t even the worst decision of the day. Ndiaye got booked for doing a Seagull celebration against Brighton earlier

[Danny]

So the guy two footing a player vertically gets suspended for two less games because he'd already committed an offense. Makes sense.

Absolutely doesn’t make sense but its the spineless nonsense you would get from a Prem ref (in general not just this decision)

[randomlegend]

.For Michael Oliver it's just another set of pricks wearing another coloured shirt, he doesn't give a shit, during the game he'll just be thinking gold v red and won't care who they are.
mind.

This is completely moronic even by your football opinion standards.

[niko_cee]

I really disagree with the freeze frame studs up analysis of that red card, it just wasn't and that belies the whole problem with making a judgment off a single image from a moving picture.

That said, I agree with Jimmy that, in the moment, it was a defensible red card - ie maybe Oliver thought he had raked down his Achilles. In those circumstances there appears to be a bit of pundit divergence on how VAR should be applied in different scenarios. The high bar for intervention that you see with penalties and goals suggests that, given there was 'some contact' and from certain angles you can make it look worse than it was, then the ruling on the field should stand. There is absolutely no chance it gets upgraded if he gives a yellow. Can the referee make a mental totting up and compile enough yellows in one incident to issue a red?

The old orange card.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This is completely moronic even by your football opinion standards.

He literally won't have been able to get to the top of refereeing if he thinks in any other way.

The only exception is for players/teams who are a particular discipline issue and need to be handled in a certain way.

[Shindig]

I really disagree with the freeze frame studs up analysis of that red card, it just wasn't and that belies the whole problem with making a judgment off a single image from a moving picture.

Yep. Studs are up but it's ground level. I still think it's a yellow due to the position on the field. Yeah, it's a cynical foul but we see those every week.

[randomlegend]

He literally won't have been able to get to the top of refereeing if he thinks in any other way.

The only exception is for players/teams who are a particular discipline issue and need to be handled in a certain way.

:lol:

Complete devoid of any basis in the reality of human behaviour. Everyone has biases, whether consciously or unconsciously. Top judges have biases, nonetheless fucking football referees who are guaranteed to be football fans and support a particular team.

Not to mention we had "top referee" David Coote out there calling Jürgen Klopp a cunt on video.

[Jimmy Floyd]

David Coote thinking Jurgen Klopp is a cunt has nothing to do with how he referees games. It just means that fans (morons) feel upset.

[randomlegend]

I'm afraid the moron here is unequivocally you.

[-james-]

I feel like bias is more likely to exist on a player level rather than a team level. Man Utd/Arsenal/Farsley Celtic are all the same to most people but I can imagine being more inclined to punish someone like Bruno Fernandes for rodent like behaviour.

[-james-]

Just had a quick look and Michael Oliver gives red cards at a rate of 0.14 per Premier League game, but he gives Arsenal red cards at a rate of 0.15 per game. Someone call the cops.

[niko_cee]

It wasn’t even the worst decision of the day. Ndiaye got booked for doing a Seagull celebration against Brighton earlier

Celebrating goals is far too regulated.

I see the old Ravnelli/Rivaldo is explicitly a bookable offence now. Is there any actual reason that removing the shirt is so frowned upon?

[Kikó]

Slowing the game down or something. Or woke.

[Pepe]

Is there any actual reason that removing the shirt is so frowned upon?

I recall back in the nineties in the Mexican league, Pepsi started paying players to wear a branded undershirt and show it every time they scored a goal. That shit got regulated into oblivion within the week. Not sure if that is still (or ever was outside Mexico) the reason for it being a bookable offense, but sounds plausible.

[Shindig]

I always figured it was for commercial reasons (i.e. kit supplies getting miffed) but then there's always the potential for messages to be written underneath.

[Pepe]

I'm afraid the moron here is unequivocally you.

You really need to chill a bit.

[Foe]

Was it not the forlan man United goal incident that caused it where he couldn’t get his shirt back on and was running about shirtless carrying it for a bit?

[-james-]

Just seen that the top scorer in Scotland is "Sam Dalby", on loan from Wrexham. :harold:

[Kikó]

He's been great. Good old school target man.

[Luke Emia]

I didn't think it was a red card yesterday. It was cynical but you see far worse all the time, as for Arsenal in general have they had genuinely terrible decisions go against them this season? They've perhaps had 50/50's go against them but nothing horrendous more just a case of falling against them than for them. Don't worry though they even out over the season.

Without wanting to invoke Phonics rage again though could this be a case of how they play as well? Constantly slowing the game down and I think you could say playing around the margins of some of the rules at times, perhaps those things are in the referee's mind when these 50/50 decisions do come up?

[Waffdon]

Just seen that the top scorer in Scotland is "Sam Dalby", on loan from Wrexham. :harold:

I don’t really understand why they’re not recalling him because Steven Fletcher gets enough game time for them and he was shite for Dundee United in the Championship.

And also about 40

[Magic]

Ange. :harold:

[Ben]

I’ve got it on because other than Wissa I find Brentford terrible to watch, and it’s a right laugh watching Spurs have absolutely no idea what to do against one of history’s most porous defences.

[Magic]

Pedro Porous.

[niko_cee]

Another top performance from the great entertainers.

[Spikey M]

They're actually going to go down if they don't get rid and bring someone with a clue in. Injury list or not, he refuses to accept that suicide ball doesn't work.

[Shindig]

Looking forward to a supercut of his hang-dog press conferences.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The Butcher :cool:

[niko_cee]

Man United skanking Fulham in one of the worst games of the season feels like a bit of a ritual.

[Raoul Duke]

Adama absolutely rattled. Fucking weightlifter

[randomlegend]

The Butcher :cool:

WHY did he do that completely insane two footed jump on the ball tackle again though. It's the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Absolutely ripe for getting sent off even if he's obviously trying to do it to the ball rather than the player. Incredibly dangerous in that he could easily slip over the ball and break the opposing players leg. Also dangerous to himself. I've never seen any other player do it. Once was a moment of madness, twice needs someone to sit him down and tell him he's never going on the pitch again if he does it any more.

[randomlegend]

Amorim saying he'd play the goalkeeping coach before a player who doesn't put the effort in when asked about Rashford :D

[Magic]

Christ this is the most boring game of football I've ever seen. Fuck Scott Parker.

[Danny]

Neymar has left Al Hilal. Absolutely robbed them. Breaks down like this apparently


£75m fee + £83m yearly wage for 2 years, that's £241m to play 219 minutes of football.. every minute on the pitch cost them £1.1m....

[Danny]

Oh and Coote has come out (officially)

[John Arne]

I can't be the only one who found the whole interview a bit off. Basically blamed getting drunk and having a pop at Uncle Jurgen on the fact that he was gay. Just own it, mate.

[niko_cee]

Villa after Disasi and Felix? Yeah, nothing to see here. Ah to be a deckchair.