Blood on the Clocktower 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Jimmy Floyd]

There is probably a way to actually work this out from known information, but I'm not at that point yet. It is still plausible that 3 players could be the imp, but in increasing likelihood:

1 - Manc, obviously not, I assume there is no mechanic whereby that stunt could have worked, he must be the slayer
2 - Baz, I suppose he could, as a bad guy, have set-up some elaborate no kill on night 1 with the imp being poisoned and then 'killing' him to make his soldier bluff stick, however, if you were going for this you would do it with the actual imp wouldn't you, but Baz must have been the Scarlett Woman in that set-up which would be levels of chicanery too great for me. Well done if so. Having the monk protect him just adds further levels of wtf to the scenario.
3 - Jimmy, I have been suspicious of Jimmy through the game. What Mahow says about his spreading his role about the town and not dying has merit. I suppose perhaps the imp could have been targeting him and other people have died, or at least they tried once before stumbling upon me. It would have been impossible to deactivate his power and poison me on the same night, I believe. Me being vocally suspicious of him to potential wrong'uns would have been cause to keep him alive.
4 - Mahow, ah Mahow. When I said 2% above I was making reference to doubts I had as to his veracity that I discussed with him when he and P_3 seemed to have somewhat interchangeable levels of info on each other from what they had told me [P_3 declared a role to me whilst Mahow said he only hinted, then later in the same conversation he made mention of P_3 being the investigator - I had probably given him something to work with in terms of deduction but it struck me at the time] - we obviously got past that point. Anyway. Mahow says he's the virgin. A claim that is in theory testable. Pleb tested it and lived. OK. Pleb was in the frame as a bad guy and the way he did the check looked exactly like the way I did it last time round, taking it for the team once my number was up. But Pleb being bad presupposes a number of outset facts which do not tally. Pepe said he was the librarian and saw one of Thommo or P_3 as the saint. As far as we know there are no outsiders on play [maybe this is trusting Mahow too much but he hasn't been challenged on this by any games masters so I have to believe it]. P_3 obviously wasn't the saint as the game would be over. Thommo said he was the monk. As a lie that makes no sense. So Pepe's info was bad, or he's just trolled the town for lols. So, with Pepe having bad info we have P_3 and his investigator role. His information was that one of Manc or Pleb was the Scarlett Woman. This must also be wrong as the game would have ended with Manc's slayer shot on Boydy. P_3's information being deliberately wrong is far more plausible. I read Pleb as the poisoner. I went through many scenarios in my mind as to how that might have happened. I knew I must have been poisoned as it made no sense as a ploy from the bad guys to fit up one of their own, but lie about their role. However, at the same time, I convinced myself of a somewhat elaborate scheme that necessitated me being told he was a bad guy, but it still be bad info. In hindsight I was looking for this to stick with my trust in Mahow's role. If Pleb was good, then short of some otherwordly levels of poisoning skill, he should have died with his Mahow nomination. That he didn't, and then slunk off into the shadows never to be seen again [further classic bad guy behaviour] can only mean that Mahow was lying about his role, and if he was lying, well, what for?

I did think about a scenario where Scarlet Woman Baz took advantage of the successful protection of someone by the Monk on night one and used it to claim the Soldier, but like you say, surely you'd do that with the Imp rather than with the Scarlet Woman.

Fair play to Mahow as the Pleb is bad / poison the Undertaker ruse was pretty skilfully done, but unfortunately for him he was let down by Boydy and P_3 suffering catastrophic engine failure on the home straight.

[niko_cee]

Well, perhaps. Other options are still available and it's not impossible that I was compromised in a different way, although I think it less likely.

This is why it is useful to actually execute people and for no-ongoing-skill townies to volunteer to die/sacrifice themselves rather than hide in the shadows [not that we had many of those in this game, ah to be a washerwoman]. One execution in the game and the info was tampered with. :face:

[niko_cee]

Going back through the records I said this to Mahow a few days ago [think it's ok to post my own words]:


It's Jimmy and Boydy for me, boydy the imp
that or you and P_3 have done me up like a kipper

:D

[Baz]

thommo only revealed he protected me after I came out as a soldier, but I do think it was a weird coincidence.

I’m not sure who’s good and bad now.

[niko_cee]

Other interesting information from the run up to the Pleb kill was that Mahow, whilst at first keen on having Pleb nominate him, then went cold on the idea - wanting to keep his virginity intact - so I suggested that as there seemed to be a groundswell of opinion against Pleb both in public and private it might be worth keeping his powder dry so as not to provoke the [apparently unwanted] retaliatory nomination. Mahow then barreled in with a very early, heavy hitting nomination on Pleb and the predictable happened. Again it seemed a bit off to me at the time, but Pleb was being such a monumental bad guy I swept it under the carpet.

[Manc]

Has Pleb communicated with anyone since his death?

[Jimmy Floyd]

As I kept pointing out, albeit not quite quickly enough or with any support whatsoever, the widespread assumption (fed, presumably, by the three bad guys) that Pleb was bad was what was doing for us that day. Initially I put it down to Mahow being a poisoned virgin, but subsequent events point to what was really going on there.

I never trust groupthink early in this game, when you get into that you're toast.

[niko_cee]

It just seemed that being plebrolled to that extent was unpossible, for me at least.

[niko_cee]

thommo only revealed he protected me after I came out as a soldier, but I do think it was a weird coincidence.

I’m not sure who’s good and bad now.

I think as long as you take Pepe's claim at face value [why wouldn't you?] then the pieces all come together to make Mahow's claim to the virgin role unsustainable.

There are permutations involving poisoning that make it impossible to know for certain, but the only person with the forensic knowledge of the order of play in the night [needed to make such a scheme work] is Mahow.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Other interesting information from the run up to the Pleb kill was that Mahow, whilst at first keen on having Pleb nominate him, then went cold on the idea - wanting to keep his virginity intact - so I suggested that as there seemed to be a groundswell of opinion against Pleb both in public and private it might be worth keeping his powder dry so as not to provoke the [apparently unwanted] retaliatory nomination. Mahow then barreled in with a very early, heavy hitting nomination on Pleb and the predictable happened. Again it seemed a bit off to me at the time, but Pleb was being such a monumental bad guy I swept it under the carpet.
I told you I was going to nominate Pleb straight away. I had already given Pleb a chance to nominate me days ago and he shied away from it.

Ideally I wanted to keep my power so someone like P_3 who I told to nominate me on day 1 could prove we were both good. This is one of the reasons why it thought P_3 was bad.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

There is probably a way to actually work this out from known information, but I'm not at that point yet. It is still plausible that 3 players could be the imp, but in increasing likelihood:

1 - Manc, obviously not, I assume there is no mechanic whereby that stunt could have worked, he must be the slayer
2 - Baz, I suppose he could, as a bad guy, have set-up some elaborate no kill on night 1 with the imp being poisoned and then 'killing' him to make his soldier bluff stick, however, if you were going for this you would do it with the actual imp wouldn't you, but Baz must have been the Scarlett Woman in that set-up which would be levels of chicanery too great for me. Well done if so. Having the monk protect him just adds further levels of wtf to the scenario.
3 - Jimmy, I have been suspicious of Jimmy through the game. What Mahow says about his spreading his role about the town and not dying has merit. I suppose perhaps the imp could have been targeting him and other people have died, or at least they tried once before stumbling upon me. It would have been impossible to deactivate his power and poison me on the same night, I believe. Me being vocally suspicious of him to potential wrong'uns would have been cause to keep him alive.
4 - Mahow, ah Mahow. When I said 2% above I was making reference to doubts I had as to his veracity that I discussed with him when he and P_3 seemed to have somewhat interchangeable levels of info on each other from what they had told me [P_3 declared a role to me whilst Mahow said he only hinted, then later in the same conversation he made mention of P_3 being the investigator - I had probably given him something to work with in terms of deduction but it struck me at the time] - we obviously got past that point. Anyway. Mahow says he's the virgin. A claim that is in theory testable. Pleb tested it and lived. OK. Pleb was in the frame as a bad guy and the way he did the check looked exactly like the way I did it last time round, taking it for the team once my number was up. But Pleb being bad presupposes a number of outset facts which do not tally. Pepe said he was the librarian and saw one of Thommo or P_3 as the saint. As far as we know there are no outsiders on play [maybe this is trusting Mahow too much but he hasn't been challenged on this by any games masters so I have to believe it]. P_3 obviously wasn't the saint as the game would be over. Thommo said he was the monk. As a lie that makes no sense. So Pepe's info was bad, or he's just trolled the town for lols. So, with Pepe having bad info we have P_3 and his investigator role. His information was that one of Manc or Pleb was the Scarlett Woman. This must also be wrong as the game would have ended with Manc's slayer shot on Boydy. P_3's information being deliberately wrong is far more plausible. I read Pleb as the poisoner. I went through many scenarios in my mind as to how that might have happened. I knew I must have been poisoned as it made no sense as a ploy from the bad guys to fit up one of their own, but lie about their role. However, at the same time, I convinced myself of a somewhat elaborate scheme that necessitated me being told he was a bad guy, but it still be bad info. In hindsight I was looking for this to stick with my trust in Mahow's role. If Pleb was good, then short of some otherwordly levels of poisoning skill, he should have died with his Mahow nomination. That he didn't, and then slunk off into the shadows never to be seen again [further classic bad guy behaviour] can only mean that Mahow was lying about his role, and if he was lying, well, what for?

I knew P_3 was the investigator at that time because you told me there was an investigator in play and when P_3 voted for Pleb he said "It was between Pleb and one other".

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Anyway, I keep thinking I know everyone's role within the game and then a twist happens and it appears I know fuck all.

At this point the only things I know for sure are that Manc is the slayer and I am the virgin.

I assumed that Baz was the soldier all along and I had Jimmy down as the poisoner (but then went cold on him when P_3's info turned out to be shit).

I still think Jimmy is the play here as the potential for Baz to be the new gimp is just so wild that even if it's true you have to hold you hands up and say well fucking played to the evil team.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If Baz was a possibility, he would surely have had me killed in the most recent night. That option wasn't available to you because you had to kill Niko then to stop him finding out about your massive con stunt when P_3 died, and then the next part of your plan was to use the 'Why hasn't the demon killed the Mayor by now? Eh? Eh?' pretext to get me executed now.

If we don't execute Mahow on this day (and therefore win via Mayor) it's all over red rover, because he'll then kill me (or Manc, if I am executed) in the night and win vs Baz (who, if his claim stands up, the Imp can't kill).

No execution could work but it's a bit of a gamble as if/when the Imp kills me, then you're on your own for another day working out which of Mahow and Baz is evil (hint: it's Mahow).

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I think this fits:

P_3 as the poisoner, Boydy as the Gimp and Jimmy as the scarlet woman/gimp.

P_3 poisons Pepe on night 1 which is Pepe's info is shit and why P_3's info was wrong. P_3 also then poisons me on the day Pleb virgin checks me and that night (he wakes before the Undertaker) he poisons Niko who sees Pleb as the poisoner.

P_3 also didn't put up a fight in the last round as there were rumblings of doubt towards Jimmy too so he didn't want to survive and have the blame shift towards Jimmy who should have been killed earlier if he really was the mayor who was telling everyone his role in private.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

If Baz was a possibility, he would surely have had me killed in the most recent night. That option wasn't available to you because you had to kill Niko then to stop him finding out about your massive con stunt when P_3 died, and then the next part of your plan was to use the 'Why hasn't the demon killed the Mayor by now? Eh? Eh?' pretext to get me executed now.

If we don't execute Mahow on this day (and therefore win via Mayor) it's all over red rover, because he'll then kill me (or Manc, if I am executed) in the night and win vs Baz (who, if his claim stands up, the Imp can't kill).

No execution could work but it's a bit of a gamble as if/when the Imp kills me, then you're on your own for another day working out which of Mahow and Baz is evil (hint: it's Mahow).

The mayor win only works if there is no execution tomorrow as well.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I told the town there is likely no outsiders due to the numbers in play which has seemingly been backed up.

I told P_3 to virgin check me on day 1 which he said he would do and then didn't. Likely because he was the poisoner.

I deduced that Manc was the slayer and convinced him to go for Boydy over Jimmy.

I'm sure there are other major things I've done for this town too and for what? To try and give me cover to bluff as evil? My job would have been a lot easier had I done none of those things.

Jimmy meanwhile told everyone he was the mayor early and has survived in the shadows.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah, obviously that would be a win via killing the Imp. Win via Mayor would be 2 days of no executions from here, which is also doable but only if the Imp once again doesn't kill me, which he almost certainly will in the next night.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Fine let's try it.

No executions today.

If Jimmy is killed in the night you can kill me.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I told P_3 to virgin check me on day 1 which he said he would do and then didn't. Likely because he was the poisoner.

I deduced that Manc was the slayer and convinced him to go for Boydy over Jimmy.

Both of which are exactly what a Scarlet Woman would do to convince good players that he is distanced from Boydy (imp) and P3 (poisoner).

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Both of which are exactly what a Scarlet Woman would do to convince good players that he is distanced from Boydy (imp) and P3 (poisoner).

As to the first, why? It would put both me and P_3 under undue suspicion if he was to have enacted the plan.

The second, as I've already said, why? Boydy wasn't under too much suspicion at the time, he could have easily survived the day and then killed himself in the night to pass it on to me (or P_3). Hell he could have probably even survived a second day too before killing himself to pass it on.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Also, your mayor plan falls down.

If we no kill today, you'll kill Manc in the night. After that we no kill in the day again, good doesn't win as you're not the mayor and you then kill me to win the game for evil.

[niko_cee]

Is there a reason why 1 v 1 defaults to a win for evil? I get that it can be defaulted to a tie in the voting for living players but dead votes could alter that dynamic. Is it considered to onerous for the bad guys to kill everyone?

[Browning]

Is there a reason why 1 v 1 defaults to a win for evil? I get that it can be defaulted to a tie in the voting for living players but dead votes could alter that dynamic. Is it considered to onerous for the bad guys to kill everyone?

There are probably certain scenarios where evil couldn't win otherwise. For example if you have a confirmed soldier in the game good could just leave him alive and win by default. I think it's probably more of an issue on the more complicated scripts though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

A Mayor win is highly unlikely now unless the Imp decides to spare me again (now that Niko is gone, he has no reason to do so, unless he wants to make me look evil and so have me executed in the day, something he could organise himself - this might actually be a half decent play for him if he wanted to avoid the possibility of being outvoted on the final day after I'm dead).

We will have to win by executing the right person, the question is simply who, and since I know I am the Mayor, it can only really be Mahow unless hornéd Baz is sitting there lolling at us for even having this discussion. Given that you've behaved exactly like a Scarlet Woman all game long, whereas I've been right about Pleb from as soon as I realised that he wasn't bluffing (something you maintained right up until the results of the most recent night), I think it's far more risky for the town to execute me than it is to execute you.

[Jimmy Floyd]

As to the first, why? It would put both me and P_3 under undue suspicion if he was to have enacted the plan.

The second, as I've already said, why? Boydy wasn't under too much suspicion at the time, he could have easily survived the day and then killed himself in the night to pass it on to me (or P_3). Hell he could have probably even survived a second day too before killing himself to pass it on.

I don't think anything in this game could generate more trust from good players than correctly telling the Slayer who the Imp is. If you were the Scarlet Woman with 6-7 players left on the board, I think it's pretty much the ultimate long play.

You would have got away with most of this if Boydy and P_3 hadn't fucked up their role claims.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Out of interest how many people here knew of Jimmy's role as the "mayor" prior to him coming out publicly?

I know I did as he told me publicly on day 2.

If I was the scarlet woman who fucking knew there was a mayor in play why is he still alive? Especially with a poisoner as my fellow baddie, I'd have had him killed instantly by telling the poisoner to target him and getting Boydy to gimp him.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

All Jimmy's defence boils down to is an attack on me and how I must be a scarlet woman because I've helped the town and that he knew that Pleb wasn't evil (because he knew it was him, P_3 and Boydy).

[Baz]

Out of interest how many people here knew of Jimmy's role as the "mayor" prior to him coming out publicly?

He told me after I revealed myself.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think I told niko, Mahow and Baz in that order. At the time of telling I read them all as being good players (I thought Pepe's joke was regurgitated info). How wrong I was in the second case. If we lose then telling Mahow my role will have been the fatal error, or one of them.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Again, if you were the mayor why would I have kept you around for this long if I was evil?

It muddies the water too much AND you're probably the best social deduction player on the board.

I'd have told my fellow baddies and we'd have poison gimped you instantly.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah, and then I'd have come back later in the game saying I was the Mayor, told Mahow I was the Mayor, and then was instantly killed. Not exactly too bright on the part of the demons to be that unsubtle.

You needed me alive for a certain period in order to scotch my credibility as the Mayor and use this 'why is he alive???' argument.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Yeah, and then I'd have come back later in the game saying I was the Mayor, told Mahow I was the Mayor, and then was instantly killed. Not exactly too bright on the part of the demons to be that unsubtle.

You needed me alive for a certain period in order to scotch my credibility as the Mayor and use this 'why is he alive???' argument.

*Told Mahow, Baz and Niko.

You're also someone who is generally targeted by the evil team if you're not evil because of how good you are in games like this.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah but I didn't tell them all at the same time, did I.

And that last argument gets used by bad guys every time I play one of these and is almost never true. I'm not that good, especially in this game which I'm playing for the first time and have made several errors.

[niko_cee]

The more I go through how things have gone the more I seem to confuse myself. I tried to go back to the beginning to try and understand how things developed, but I'm not sure it really helps. Nevertheless. Only click this if you are a bit of a sadist.

Game begins - roles are assigned. The bad guys Boydy (Imp), P_3 (Poisoner) and Mr X can't believe their luck when they find out that their bluffs are Fortune Teller (Boydy), Investigator (P_3) and Mayor/Virgin/Soldier (Mr X). They know the town has no information on them from the get go and no way to actually get any proactively. They adopt a wait and see approach in case there is an undertaker or empath, both of whose abilities stand to gain from executions in one way or the other. This worked out well as it was the prevailing view of the town.

The 1 person with information at the start was Pepe, and his information was surely dud. Fortunately, this bad info wasn't as harmful to the town as it could have been, because the outsider he thought he saw wasn't the drunk, which would have been next level confusing.

So the game goes on and not much happens.

Boydy chucks in a random let's kill Mahow lol line, but no one is interested in killing anyone.

The the night comes along and we assume Boydy went for Baz, who was protected by the monk, but also, as chance would have it, is a soldier. I mean, what are the chances? And yet we probably have to believe that that happened. The only alternative would be this as an extreme long shot poison the imp target the scarlett woman gambit based on the soldier bluff being the final unknown bluff. I would love for this to be true but I don't think it is. You could save that shit for down the road.

After a second day with no execution I was at a bit of a loose end and so got to chatting with a few folk, Mahow being one of them. We had had some cursory chat on the first day, but this was the first substantive stuff. He brought up P_3 and how he was suspicious of him as they had concocted some sort of plan and P_3 hadn't followed through - the plan being the virgin check test. This was interesting to me as P_3 had also said to me privately that he had some info he was going to share publicly on Day 2 and he never did - blaming being busy at work I believe. Obviously at this point Mahow's role was known to P_3, whether he was good or bad. As the poisoner I wonder if P_3 thought he would gamble on poisoning Mahow on the belief he would try to force a virgin test somehow or other the next day? During the course of our discussions I revealed my role to Mahow. I was reticent, and whilst he was also guarded he made the first move, I believe the words were "fuck it, I'm the virgin" or something to that effect.

From this point on my role was compromised as the following night, the night of the death of Pleb, I was poisoned, seeing him as the poisoner, which made no sense on any level given what I had been told. Mahow said he told P_3 about an undertaker, it is possible he deduced it was me from my in thread mild exasperation at nobody being executed. If so, well done him. It is also equally possible Mahow just told him.

Mahow did say to me he'd rather just nominate and execute Pleb, although I did caution against this as it would likely draw the retaliatory nomination. He did it anyway.

Throughout these events I was most suspicious of Boydy and Jimmy, as a few of the non-bad guy characters should be able to attest. I don't think I let on about these suspicions to Jimmy as I thought he was a wrong'un, instead I was busy trying to sow seeds of doubt in his mind about Mahow and the Pleb pursuit. :face:

Anyway, Pleb dies, but P_3s info is wrong, just how wrong I didn't apprehend. Thommo dies and is the monk, by this point Baz has claimed the soldier role. Most of the pieces seem to be falling into place but there are still unknowns (and Rumsfeldian unknown unknowns as it would happen). Mahow's power is burned [do not like that mechanic by the way - does it also apply to a slayer shot?] and Pleb looked as guilty as sin with everyone bar Jimmy buying it. How he didn't buy it I don't really know, and this is where the doubts about him creep in.

We interact a bit but I'm not at all trusting of him.

P_3 has been quite evasive by now so I decide to see if Manc has anything interesting to say. Around now Boydy hits me with his fortune teller schtick. It is ill-conceived and poorly executed, perhaps by design. Mahow and I both press Manc quite hard to use his power on Boydy, only he will be able to tell you who persuaded him to do it [if it was either of us at all].

The shot succeeds, the game doesn't end, P_3s goose is cooked, but the bad guys have somehow kept the ace up their sleeve and we simple townfolk have been plebrolled.

And here we are

Do we believe that Jimmy, with help from some heroic poisoning work from P_3 [Pepe N1, ???? N2, Mahow N3, Me N4] and some perhaps predictable madness from Pleb has managed to glide under the radar throughout whilst claiming a frankly dangerous role for the bad team quite openly, and apparently to one of the bad team?

Or is it Mahow, the deceitful virgin, who expertly conspired with his fellow bad guys to weave this tangled web once they had their hands on my completely pointless powers?

Perhaps the question should be, given the bluff of the mayor, or the virgin, which would you put on the scarlet woman? Or would you have used the other bluffs differently?

I'm coming round to still believing Mahow, somehow. What's the internet parlour game version of Stockholm Syndrome?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

In regards to telling P_3 we had an undertaker I only told him there was an Undertaker in play after Pleb had died and you had seen him as the poisoner.

I don't know if that makes me look more or less guilty but that is the truth.

[Baz]

You’re both far too invested and one of you is blatantly lying, so opinions of one of you are about to be tarnished.

I wish I was the imp after all this though.

[niko_cee]

My running order of who most deserves the win from the remaining players is:

1= Baz/Manc, Baz if he's the bad guy and made whatever he's done work, Manc for the shot on Boydy, did all he could do, well played sir.
3. Mahow, very believable shenanigans if that is what they are
4. Jimmy, coasted it for me, game has fallen into his hands rather than him making it [might be 100% wrong and he's been masterminding the whole thing].

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

You’re both far too invested and one of you is blatantly lying, so opinions of one of you are about to be tarnished.

I wish I was the imp after all this though.

I've both loved and hated this game equally, it's been fantastic.

As an aside they had a Twitch game a week or two ago of this script but it was played blind meaning no one was told their role. It was utterly brilliant to watch but it must have been hell to actually play. My brain probably would have burst trying to work everything out.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Niko is probably right as far as that merit list goes, which is why I don't know why Mahow keeps blowing smoke up my arse. I've not really used my role too brilliantly - bit of a rookie error blurting it as much as I did.

I've also been in and out of the TTH tab all the way through, largely at work, so all 'efforts' have been a bit disjointed and not done nearly as much private chat as I might have done.

[Gray Fox]

I guess this is as good a time as any to open up nominations!

[Jimmy Floyd]

Nominate Mahow.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I feel like I've laid out my defence a lot over the past 24 hours or so.

As a quick summary, I am the virgin and I feel like Jimmy is the final bad for reasons I've stated.

I vote no.

[Gray Fox]

There are 2 votes needed to put Mahow on the block.

At this point I will point out that no one as yet has used their 1 dead vote so a full 10 is still possible on everyone.

[Baz]

Nah, let’s slice Jimmy’s head off instead.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I vote yes, evidently.

[Manc]

Jim not wasting a minute with that nomination. :D

[Gray Fox]

Currently 7 still to vote. No dead votes used yet.

[Gray Fox]

So I’ll put a 9pm time limit on this just in case there are other nominations to come after.

[niko_cee]

I don't think I'll bite on this offer, but I am quite surprised by the complete lack of enthusiasm for the proposition.

[Gray Fox]

The vote on Mahow fails.

Anything else by 10 or I’ll close the night. If the 3 remaining who can nominate agree they don’t want to I’ll end it earlier.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

*On Mahow.

I nominate Jimmy for reasons I have listed over the last couple of pages.

Ultimately I know Manc is good, I know I'm good and if Baz is bad and team evil came up with an insane plan they/he deserves to win. So it's Jimmy.

[Baz]

I nominate Jimmy "The Imp" Floyd.

[Gray Fox]

Glad you caught that!

Mahow nominates Jimmy.

[niko_cee]

Voting on Mahow, no?

[Gray Fox]

Fixed it!

[Baz]

Defend yourself Jimmy Floyd you demonic knob

[Jimmy Floyd]

I spent half the day defending myself. Mahow is the Imp, inherited from Boydy, and he spun it via P_3 poisoning Niko whilst Mahow held his hand through Pleb's death. I was right about Pleb and I've been right about almost everything else, too. I've made a couple of errors due to game inexperience but I'm otherwise pure as the driven, and executing me is going to be a game-losing mistake. Even a no kill will show you I'm innocent, mind, so since you haven't done the right thing and offed Mahow to win the bloody game, you might as well take the very last scraps of a chance for the town and fail to vote for me.

[Gray Fox]

2 to put Jimmy on the block.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Yes from me.

[Gray Fox]

So after falling asleep and waking up to no activity I’ll make an executive decision to take this to what will likely be a final day.

It is now night.

[niko_cee]

Overnight voting on Jimmy?

I went to bed awaiting his defence.

Seems to be pointless to drag this out for another day.

[niko_cee]

2 nominations and only 1 vote is a bit :cab:.

I think maybe it tells you Jimmy is the bad guy as if the bad guys had any moxy about them they could have swooped in, placed 2 dead votes and executed him.

[Manc]

GF desperate for an evil win.

[niko_cee]

The innocent one out of Mahow and Jimmy dying in the night would be quality.

[Baz]

Overnight voting on Jimmy?

I went to bed awaiting his defence.

Seems to be pointless to drag this out for another day.
Same.

[Gray Fox]

I’d just rather it didn’t swing one way or another based on inactivity.

[Gray Fox]

Okay so… nobody died in the night. It is day again.

[Baz]

:flex:

[thommo]

Or the demon killed an already dead member of the town.

[Baz]

Nah. I was tested and I passed. Come at me Jimmy you gimp.

[Spikey M]

You lot letting Monghow Don you again :face:

[niko_cee]

Nah. I was tested and I passed. Come at me Jimmy you gimp.

When did this happen?

[Manc]

Or the demon killed an already dead member of the town.

Is this possible?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Is this possible?

It is possible.

The town can even execute a dead person if they want.

[Manc]

So for the second time in the game we've got Baz claiming he's survived an attempt on his life and once again no one can confirm it. Brill.

[Baz]

To be honest I think it's far more likely that Jimmy/Mahow opted to gimp an already dead body, just to drag it out even longer.

[Manc]

34 minutes for a complete 360. You're on the ropes lad.

[Baz]

34 minutes for a complete 360. You're on the ropes lad.

Says the one who hasn’t nominated, voted or even said anything since he lucked out with a flamboyant imp kill. :nono:

[niko_cee]

It is possible.

The town can even execute a dead person if they want.

Would this allow an undertaker to learn the identity of someone who had been gimped?

[Gray Fox]

The role states "Each night, you learn which character died by execution today“

the player is already dead before that day, so the answer would be no.

[Browning]

What is dead may never die.

[Baz]

Dead hands dig deep.

[niko_cee]

Is there a time frame to finish this or are we just stuck in some sort of holding loop now?

Next level trolling from Baz if he's the bad guy.

[Baz]

Can I nominate Jimmy yet?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Is there a time frame to finish this or are we just stuck in some sort of holding loop now?

Next level trolling from Baz if he's the bad guy.

I've just been thinking and I don't think Baz can be the bad guy. Unless Thommo let slip that he was the monk and Baz begged him to protect him. Baz would then also have to be absolutely sure that Thommo wasn't lying and that he would indeed protect him.

Pepe's info was wrong and the most likely scenario as to why would be that the poisoner hit him. As such the poisoner couldn't have hit Gimp Boydy and thus he couldn't have managed to no-kill Baz (or anyone else).

[niko_cee]

Pepe poisoning N1, Gimp Boydy Poisoning N2? I have no idea of which order things are resolved in, but the gimp doesn't act on N1 does he? [but the poisoner does - if certain people allow them more than 8 minutes to reply to a PM that is].

[Browning]

Pepe poisoning N1, Gimp Boydy Poisoning N2? I have no idea of which order things are resolved in, but the gimp doesn't act on N1 does he? [but the poisoner does - if certain people allow them more than 8 minutes to reply to a PM that is].

This is correct.

Edit- Mechanically speaking, of course. Not saying that's what happened.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I forgot that the gimp kill was on night 2.

So it is possible.

It's such a baller move if that's what happened.

[niko_cee]

Then not to stick around for half an hour to back up his nomination for a match winning vote on Jimmy, and then not bother killing in the night, there are ballsy moves and then there's just taking the piss.

[Baz]

Or, you know, it was bedtime and townsfolk sleep at night.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Been out all day (as advertised). It's not Baz. Mahow remains the imp and is trying to frame me by basically impersonating me, which is fair enough.

[thommo]

I just don't know who to believe out of mahow or Jimmy. I didn't yesterday hence no vote for either, and I don't now.

[Gray Fox]

Nominations are open’

[Baz]

I nominate Jimmy

[niko_cee]

Do we have to wait for him to defend himself again?

[Gray Fox]

No it’s all been covered I feel.

Baz nominates Jimmy and 2 are needed to put him on the block.

[Baz]

Yes

[niko_cee]

Yes

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Yes.

[Spikey M]

Mongs

[Gray Fox]

Jimmy on the block. I’ll let this run a little in case anyone else wants to use a dead vote.

[Baz]

https://www.rllmukforum.com/uploads/monthly_2021_09/image.gif.d279268b0724c063b949101043aeab13.gif

[thommo]

Why not, yes. I think he's more likely to be bad.

[Gray Fox]

So that’s 4 on Jim.

Is anyone else wanting to nominate?

[Manc]

Can I request he's killed by DeChambeau's driver?

[niko_cee]

Only if you vote.

[Gray Fox]

I'll call the day on the hour if there's nothing more.

[Baz]

gg mates

I appreciate the trust and I’m glad we managed to get there in the end.

[Gray Fox]

On the hour it is.

What's left of the town drags Jimmy to the town graveyard and throws him into a deep deep grave. Jimmy is buried alive and dies.

The game continues. It is now night!

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

:face:

We've been fucked by Baz.

[P_3]

Baz. :cool:

[Gray Fox]

I jest of course! The game couldn't continue as only 3 going into the night would have assured the Imp the win.

The game is over and the Good team has won!

[Baz]

https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/240/emojipedia/294/saluting-face_1fae1.png

[Gray Fox]

Well, well, well, where to start on this one? I suppose with:

Pepe - Your town Librarian. When I did game set up and randomised the characters, I did wonder if to take that role out or not as Mahow correctly identified on the first day, there should have been no outsiders. However I thought it would be good to have him get a zero reading and remove doubt about a drunk in this game. Enter, The Poisoner, who selected Pepe on night 1. Due to this I had to give him a false reading and he got Thomma or P_3 as the Saint.

Speaking of Thomma - Your humble Monk. He chose to protect Baz on Night 2 and then Mahow on Night 3, before his untimely death.

Baz - The Imp did attack Baz on Night 2 as well so the protection was well placed. Or rather it would have been if Baz was not already The Soldier. Baz came out without even a scratch. That he came so publicly with his role, I expected there might have been a doubling up of poison and imp to get him out of the way, but he survived until the end.

Niko - Was the towns Undertaker who early in the game was pushing for information that just would not come because the town refused to kill anyone until the 3rd day. Unfortunately for him on what would turn out to be the one and only night he would get his info, he was chosen by the posioner just before he did his nightly digging. In the end the only person he saw was Pleb.

Mahow - Was the Virgin who would was unfortunately poisoned on the day he received his first nomination. It wouldn't have mattered who did it in the end. However it was Pleb that threw himself on that sword.

Pleb - Ah poor old Pleb. The towns biggest mystery. Was turned on by the town and the Virgin nomination all but sealed his death that day. The entire town was convinced they'd got the evil bastard. Only... he just wanted to Keep his damn Ravens! He was telling the truth and was the Ravenkeeper but he bizarrely outed himself and from there, it was all downhill.
The problem here is the night he died, the Undertaker was poisoned so I had to show Niko that Pleb was the Poisoner. The actual Poisoner was...

P_3 - My MOTM. Whether it was accidental or not he hit about the best player he could, each night he poisoned. He caused false information for Pepe, Mahow and Niko. He then quite well drew the view of the town towards him when it looked like Jimmy was heading for death by execution.

The problem here is that Manc, the Slayer had used his shot and killed Boydy the original Imp. His ability then passed over to Jimmy, the Scarlet Woman, who was almost immediately done in by the town.
Evil did well to prolong the game here and I genuinely believe the good team thought the game was over with the death of P_3.

In the end the final days Mahow v Jimmy battle was just too much for Jim to overcome. Having Manc a confirmed good guy still there along with the town correctly going with Baz being a soldier, left him in a hole. The only way out was to try and bury Mahow. The town didn't follow him down that path so he was lost. In the end on the final night he wanted to kill himself to go down with dignity, but when I asked if he was sure that's how he wanted it to end he decided to attack Baz.

Good not executing early in the end probably won them the game. That extra day to figure it out gave enough time for seeds of doubt to sow around the evil team and they were slowly picked apart.
The roles here were likely a bit more harsh on the evil team as the town had a lot of protection, but the poisoner did really well to even this out, to the point you were convinced Pleb was evil for the vast majority.

Also not really helping here was that half of the players didn't come back and post after dying. I felt like it was building to a great final day but Jim just didn't get any help at all.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Pleb you actually were the ravenkeeper? How fucking useless.

[Browning]

Another game that looked, to me, to be over long before it was, which in this case was down to the evil team playing exceptionally well in the face of the good team figuring it all out pretty early doors. P_3's poisoning targets were excellent throughout and it's just a shame he came under fire when he did. One more night of dud info for Niko may have swung it.

The only thing that stood out to me in terms of "mistakes" which everyone except Niko completely discounting the possibility of a Mayor bounce at every turn. Of course, there was no Mayor, so it wasn't relevant, but so many arguments that were put forward were along the lines of "why wouldn't Jim be dead?".... one does not simply Gimp the Mayor.

Fascinating game though only let down slightly by the dead players seeming to vanish quicker than last time, leading to it dragging a bit at the end. Other than that, I'd say we worked through the balance issues we had in game one fairly well.

[niko_cee]

If you'd given me Scarlett Woman for Pleb we'd have been dead [unless P_3 had said that publicly, I don't think he did].

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Another game that looked, to me, to be over long before it was, which in this case was down to the evil team playing exceptionally well in the face of the good team figuring it all out pretty early doors. P_3's poisoning targets were excellent throughout and it's just a shame he came under fire when he did. One more night of dud info for Niko may have swung it.

The only thing that stood out to me in terms of "mistakes" which everyone except Niko completely discounting the possibility of a Mayor bounce at every turn. Of course, there was no Mayor, so it wasn't relevant, but so many arguments that were put forward were along the lines of "why wouldn't Jim be dead?".... one does not simply Gimp the Mayor.

Fascinating game though only let down slightly by the dead players seeming to vanish quicker than last time, leading to it dragging a bit at the end. Other than that, I'd say we worked through the balance issues we had in game one fairly well.

They could have poisoned the mayor then gimped him.

Which is what they would have done with a real mayor if they did come out to an evil person early.

[thommo]

I would have posted more but I genuinely didn't have much info to offer. Being the Monk I'd kept pretty silent throughout in private chats as I wanted to remain under the radar, but unfortunately that meant I didn't get much info back in return. A lot of the info I got after my death was second-hand, and people knew it already.

I just don't understand that Pleb play.... really no idea why you came out and said that. You'd have been better off just claiming Monk or something loudly and getting yourself offed by the Imp.

At the end there, I was leaning towards mahow, but Jimmy did put up a good argument. I almost wavered when I remembered I had hinted to mahow who I was (and he had hinted he understood) the day before my death, but the information just stacked up against him in the end. The Mayor claim was ultimately your undoing in my eyes - as mahow said, why would the Imp keep you alive when you're a guaranteed win condition with only 3 people left? Good effort nonetheless.

[niko_cee]

Also, it is really interesting seeing the outsider view. As the gameskeepers you obviously have a view as to how things are going, but with all the behind the scenes shit that is going down in many ways you are as much in the dark as the rest of us.

[Browning]

Possibly, but the Mayor is not the high priority target you seemed to make him out to be. Poisoning and/or killing an Empath/Undertaker/Fortune Teller would probably be higher priority. Then once the poisoner is dead that option is off the table. There was definitely a real possibility Jimmy could have been the Mayor and the kills could have bounced. In fact, a mayor bounce to a dead body was probably the most plausible explanation for the no kill last night.

[Manc]

Good game, chaps.

[niko_cee]

Also, whilst I don't have perfect vision on this due to being on different sides, I definitely felt like you could work out the first game whereas you couldn't work this one out. It was more logical for Mahow to have been the bad guy, rather than what I termed to him 'the super poisoner theory' but in the end I think the town's gut won out, and was right.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I would have posted more but I genuinely didn't have much info to offer. Being the Monk I'd kept pretty silent throughout in private chats as I wanted to remain under the radar, but unfortunately that meant I didn't get much info back in return. A lot of the info I got after my death was second-hand, and people knew it already.

I just don't understand that Pleb play.... really no idea why you came out and said that. You'd have been better off just claiming Monk or something loudly and getting yourself offed by the Imp.

At the end there, I was leaning towards mahow, but Jimmy did put up a good argument. I almost wavered when I remembered I had hinted to mahow who I was (and he had hinted he understood) the day before my death, but the information just stacked up against him in the end. The Mayor claim was ultimately your undoing in my eyes - as mahow said, why would the Imp keep you alive when you're a guaranteed win condition with only 3 people left? Good effort nonetheless.
I remembered this yesterday and thought I was done for if you had come in with it.

[Browning]

One thing I wonder is what would have happened if Boydy had bluffed as the Recluse rather than the Fortune Teller. Obviously it wasn't one of his bluffs, but knowing there was no Baron in play he could have known it wasn't in the game. It would have made Pepe's info look legit and given him something to fall back on once he was shot. I don't think it would have worked, but it would have been interesting to see anyway.

I was surprised at how quickly the chips seemed to fall into place for the good team but I can only imagine there was some kind of giveaways in the private conversations. To me it looked like Boydy and P_3 were safe as houses and then all of a sudden they were dead.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

One thing I wonder is what would have happened if Boydy had bluffed as the Recluse rather than the Fortune Teller. Obviously it wasn't one of his bluffs, but knowing there was no Baron in play he could have known it wasn't in the game. It would have made Pepe's info look legit and given him something to fall back on once he was shot. I don't think it would have worked, but it would have been interesting to see anyway.

I was surprised at how quickly the chips seemed to fall into place for the good team but I can only imagine there was some kind of giveaways in the private conversations. To me it looked like Boydy and P_3 were safe as houses and then all of a sudden they were dead.

Me and Niko were fairly sure on Boydy and Jimmy quite early and we both told Manc that Boydy was more likely to be the imp. Although we both went off Jimmy when it looked like P_3 was likely and then Niko started to doubt me :(

I didn't have P_3 as evil at all until we worked out night 1 info was wrong from more than one source.

[Gray Fox]

Obviously we couldn't see the private conversations, which is a shame sometimes, but as Browning said, we were watching what seemed to be it going swimmingly for Evil, then suddenly they nearly lost both Imps in one day.

It's a shame Jim was left in the lurch at the end as by the sounds of it some of the town was undecided until late.

How tempted were you guys to Slayer shoot Jim instead? Because I feel like the Slayer shot was the big turning point.

[niko_cee]

Manc will have to tell you, but I was strong on Boydy, and he asked me why him and not Jimmy.

I was literally in the process of composing a message to him to say maybe Jimmy wasn't such a bad idea when I saw he'd already done it.

I came around in the end Mahow, but yeah, logic seemed to dictate you were bad. But logic never accounts for Pleb.

[Gray Fox]

Pleb Plebrolled Pleb.

[Ian]

Surely we are long since past the point of trying to understand the workings of Pleb's mind.

[Spikey M]

Mahow - Was the Virgin

Was?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Surely we are long since past the point of trying to understand the workings of Pleb's mind.

It's weird as well because Pleb has probably racked up the most minutes watching games of BOTC.

The man is an enigma.

[Ian]

He has also spent many, many hours playing video games. And yet....

[Gray Fox]

Pleb exists to know one thing and one thing only.

How to win the Champions League

[Spikey M]

Pleb exists to roll. And roll he will. Over you, over me, over a cliff, he does not give a fuck.

[Ian]

I love that the term 'plebroll' has escaped the confines of haxball.

The man is a sensation.

A burning sensation, mostly.

[Baz]

Thanks for not being a dirty rotten liar niko_cee

[niko_cee]

It's impossible to become as embroiled in this sort of stuff as a bad guy as Mahow and I did. Eventually I realised this. As a bad guy you are always too guarded to say too much. In the end you were wrong, neither of us was lying.

[Pepe]

Good game. Thanks to our hosts.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Well done town - I gave it my best at the end, just had too much to do.

My argument made perfect sense but I think people just trusted each other more than they did me as I'd been less active in the back channels.

[niko_cee]

As a game mechanic query, how do you decide what happens with the 'might' scenarios - ie the mayor might not die if gimped, the recluse might register as X, Y or Z - and how do you work out the information when an information role has been poisoned - ie how did you decide to give me Poisoner for Pleb? Does the information have to be what I would call wrong wrong (ie wrong role and wrong side) or can it just be a bit wrong?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I would have thought narrator's prerogative - i.e. do whatever's best for the game.

[Ian]

From the No Roll's Barred videos I've seen Jimmy has it right. Whatever will make things most fun or interesting and trying to anticipate where it's going so you don't accidentally tip the scales too much.

Also, since this thread was started I've found it impossible not to read it in my head to the tune of the chorus line of Electric Avenue, but irritatingly the number of syllables is not quite right.

[Gray Fox]

The idea is we try to get the game along to get as close to a final 3 as it can get. The general rule for these things is to help evil a bit more in the early game as it tends to be that, once evil are fucked, there's very little chance of pulling it back for them later, even if we can do anything. You can always throw the good team a bone later on, but it's a slippery slope on the evil side.

Also as we watch the story, we get a sense of what players are thinking in public. Unfortunately this way of playing doesn't let us see the PMs but to take Pleb as one example.
We knew the town thought he was evil at that point. So we played up to that by not giving Niko the Undertaker a townsfolk role. An outsider role would also have been well shot down. That was a better move for the evil team and the good side would also have believed the poisoner was dead. We can give you something a bit wrong or completely wrong. It just depends on the role/game situation at the time.

For another example had Jimmy actually been the Mayor and Mahow the Imp in this game, an attack on Jim that last night could have seen us bounce that Mayor kill onto Baz. Baz had zero suspicion on him whatsoever and the cat would have been thrown amongst the pigeons. How did you die at night if you were the soldier etc.

[Browning]

I'm not sure you actually can Mayor bounce onto a Soldier. It's still an Imp kill so the Soldier should be safe from it. That would have been an interesting scenario if it came up though.

Showing Pleb as the poisoner was in my mind the best of both worlds. It's all but confirmed a poisoner was in play (which good suspected but didn't know for sure) whilst also rewarding P_3's excellent choice of Niko by making it look like his role was dead and thus strengthening any bluff he may have had. I wasn't quite sure why the town instantly dismissed the idea of Pleb being the poisoner.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

P_3 bluffed as the Investigator and said Pleb or Manc as the scarlet woman.

Coupled with Pepe's obviously wrong info. Things didn't add up.

[Browning]

The thing that confused me was when I saw theories going around that Pleb was evil, but was not the poisoner. Either you believe the Undertaker info or you don't, but if you don't then the logical conclusion would be Pleb being good. We'd be unlikely to show Pleb as the wrong minion (although it's not impossible, it would be pretty shit reward for a poisoner who has scored a bingo).

[niko_cee]

That was the hypothesis as we hadn't contemplated or expounded the Super Poisoner Theory at that point.

If Pleb was good, how did he survive nominating Mahow? Our info suggested he was the Scarlett Woman so by telling us another role we were being misled without breaking other parts of the game. I think that was the rationale.

[niko_cee]

P_3's deceit then only became clear when Manc got the Imp but the game didn't end, as his investigator claim became clearly wrong at that point.

[Gray Fox]

I'm not sure you actually can Mayor bounce onto a Soldier. It's still an Imp kill so the Soldier should be safe from it. That would have been an interesting scenario if it came up though.

It's technically as a result of the Mayors power and not that of the Imp so it can be done. I've seen it happen in a game before.

[Browning]

I think that was incorrectly played. The wiki confirms that if a Soldier dies at night they must be poisoned or drunk, which is the closest I can find to a true answer, but yea, the mayor bounce is still an Imp kill.

[Baz]

I didn’t realise I could be poisoned and then gimped. Probably should have kept quiet!

[Browning]

There wasn't really a need to keep quiet, once the first kill failed the Imp would assume you're the Soldier. There was obviously a chance the Monk protected you, but they'd soon figure it out if you survived again.