European Super League

[Bernanke]

1384502970583117824

That's it then, this thing is dead.

[Lewis]

*Sent from my Al Jazeera-funded house*

[Manc]

Pep coming out and lolling at this idea is top stuff. Expect Citeh to pull out tonight.

[Shindig]

Damn. I wanted a long enough hold-out to award us a couple of titles. Bus parade and everything. If anybody cares, I've ran the numbers through the Football League's entire history to see who comes out on top in terms of titles won.

Everton - 19 (Sir David Moyers wins 4 or 5 of them. Martinez even gets one.
Aston Villa - 14 (It was actually close until Moyes took off)
Leeds - 12
Newcastle - 10 (Sir Bobby gets three on the bounce)
Sunderland - 9
Wolves - 7
Preston NE, Blackburn, Burnley, Notts Forest, Sheffield 'The Wednesday' - (Kenny Dalglish gets an extra one and Brian Clough's machine rolls on. Sean Dyche, take a bow.)
Ipswich, Huddersfield - 4
Portsmouth, Blackpool - 3 (I count one for Blackpool as they lead the season that was abandoned by the outbreak of WW2 after 3 games. :D )
Leicester, Southampton, Derby - 2
Watford, West Brom, Sheff Utd, QPR, Crystal Palace - 1 (Elton John releases a Watford-themed Candle in the Wind)

I might do FA Cups next.

[Waffdon]

Chelsea requesting documentation to leave. Was always going to happen. Their owner is the only one out the lot who actually likes football for one.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzbpeGcXMAADdYE?format=png

These protests are a bit too tame right now.

[randomlegend]

Chelsea preparing to pull out.

[-james-]

:lol:

[Baz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8_0Owkcw-s

[Jimmy Floyd]

The best bit is what happens now, after two of them have come back tail between legs. The Americans are deadly serious about this, they want the money and they want it predictably.

[Bernanke]

City is reportedly dashing for the exit faster than Chelsea.

[Waffdon]

Chelsea or Man City will drop out in the next few days and the rest will follow as Carragher said

:’)

[-james-]

Barca gone too. Real "we never wanted to join your stupid club anyway aha" vibes from them.

[Waffdon]

Atletico as well. It’s going to be left with Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, Juve and Madrid. :lol:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

If Chelsea, City and Barca are gone (with Bayern and PSG not joining) it's surely dead.

[thommo]

Damn. I wanted a long enough hold-out to award us a couple of titles. Bus parade and everything. If anybody cares, I've ran the numbers through the Football League's entire history to see who comes out on top in terms of titles won.

Everton - 19 (Sir David Moyers wins 4 or 5 of them. Martinez even gets one.
Aston Villa - 14 (It was actually close until Moyes took off)
Leeds - 12
Newcastle - 10 (Sir Bobby gets three on the bounce)
Sunderland - 9
Wolves - 7
Preston NE, Blackburn, Burnley, Notts Forest, Sheffield 'The Wednesday' - (Kenny Dalglish gets an extra one and Brian Clough's machine rolls on. Sean Dyche, take a bow.)
Ipswich, Huddersfield - 4
Portsmouth, Blackpool - 3 (I count one for Blackpool as they lead the season that was abandoned by the outbreak of WW2 after 3 games. :D )
Leicester, Southampton, Derby - 2
Watford, West Brom, Sheff Utd, QPR, Crystal Palace - 1 (Elton John releases a Watford-themed Candle in the Wind)

I might do FA Cups next.

Hold on a minute, I'm sure Fulham won it in 2010-11. We've not got much else going for us right now so I'm taking it.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1384573185065115652

Atleti have also pulled out.

[randomlegend]

The dream scenario is this pushes the Glazers to sell Utd.

[Jimmy Floyd]

RIP the credibility of anyone involved. The Americans will be bewildered and seething.

[thommo]

City fully out and now the players of the clubs involved are becoming more vocal on Twitter.

[randomlegend]

Reports now coming out the Utd players staged a full on revolt behind the scenes and we will be pulling out too.

[7om]

Haha.

Stupid wankers. This was a horrendous idea from the start and it tells you all you need to know that they were deluded enough to try and pull it off. Pathetic from everyone involved and I hope they are suitably punished by the Premier League.

[randomlegend]

It would be nice if they could punish the actual owners/presidents who appear to have been pretty much the only people pushing this, but not sure how you do that.

Seems unfair punishing the players/mangers/etc. given they were clearly all against it and have seemingly been quite instrumental in getting it canned.

[niko_cee]

1 year ban from European competition for all involved? :lewis:

[Shindig]

Hold on a minute, I'm sure Fulham won it in 2010-11. We've not got much else going for us right now so I'm taking it.

Nope. Second to Moyes' boys by five points. You can have the Europa League instead.

[Bernanke]

Years and years of speculation and planning and this is how the launch goes. You love to see it.

[niko_cee]

Didn't they get Theresa May's head of comms to run PR for it?

I mean, all that money . . .

[Waffdon]

They’ve all gone now. Only Spurs and Liverpool now. What a mess

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

United gone.

Just the Italians, Spurs, Liverpool and Real left?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Arsenal are gone.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1384494671129301002

He saved the kids and now he's saved the game.

[Shindig]

I want to hear the argument they got that make them sign up in the first place.

[Danny]

He saved the kids and now he's saved the game.

I think Bruno was the first to speak out. Is that another goal contribution?

[Waffdon]

He only RT’d something. Pussy boy

[-james-]

Just a complete lolfest from start to finish. No attempt to get club staff onside (or even inform them?), complete radio silence from those in charge and no attempt to flesh out the details.

Hard to believe the sums of money involved in something that looks like it was put together by a 15 year old.

[Boydy]

:lol:

[Lewis]

The players framing it all in reference to fans, as if they wouldn't be able to attend/pay for all of these shit games, is a bit of a cop out on their part. The issue is the closed shop, not the fixtures or money or whatever else.

[Manc]

Hand out the punishments please.

[Shindig]

As crap at the UEFA proposals are, any attempts to expand the European game for financial gain tends to involve more teams.

[7om]

I'd love them all to get a points deduction and for Arsenal to go down as a result.

[Ian]

United gone.

Where's this being reported?

[CJay]

Don’t these clubs have Deadly Dom type weirdos who could game out how everything would have played out from the announcement? It was blindingly obvious from the start that the backlash was going to be too much to bear.

[-james-]

Woodward gone lol

[Baz]

I’ve cashed out my France bet.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Woodward's walked :drool:

[Shindig]

I think their approach was, "What are they going to do without us?" Very much 'bigger than the sport' bollocks that was massively, massively misjudged.

[Ian]

:drool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Where's this being reported?

https://strettynews.com/2021/04/20/exclusive-man-united-set-to-withdraw-from-esl/

No idea how legit they are but they were the first to report it I believe.

[7om]

Tear it all down :drool:

[phonics]

Isn't he from JP Morgan who are giving them the money? I presume this was some long play the whole time so he's off to make money elsewhere.

[Lewis]

lol at Ed Woodward going over this after all the shit he has taken over the years.

[niko_cee]

Did this thing ever actually exist to the extent that it is possible to withdraw from it?

Agnelli, Perez and Gazidis (I guess) seething their absolute bits off I would imagine. It would be beyond lol if UEFA booted everyone for a seaosn or so if for nothing other than scuppering Meeelan's first soujourn back into the top competition for god know's how many years (which has been the driving force behind their involvement in this/continual bleating about 'legacy clubs').

Obviously there will be no actual sporting sanctions for anyone.

[Alex]

Watching this all collapse in real-time is fascinating. Far more entertaining than the actual competition itself would ever have been.

[Danny]

1384582079015440385

Well thats bullshit. Unless he had some direct role at the SL lined up.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Twitter is saying that all the English clubs have gone along with Barca and Atleti.

So just the Italians and Real Madrid flying the flag.

[Lewis]

It's brought Pogba Senior back. :cool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1384582070677262341

:drool:

Also Agnelli has walked from Juventus.

[Waffdon]

It's brought Pogba Senior back. :cool:

He was using a different account for some reason. Hardly posted there either though

[niko_cee]

Doesn't Agnelli (or his family) own Juventus?

Will all these clubs now be submitting their forms to rejoin whatever European club cabal they resigned from earlier in the week?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Doesn't Agnelli (or his family) own Juventus?

Will all these clubs now be submitting their forms to rejoin whatever European club cabal they resigned from earlier in the week?

The family does, yeah.

They'll probably just hire another from the family.

[Lewis]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Agnelli

Physiognomy remains undefeated.

[Disco]

There can't be many worse ways of trying to launch this than the one they went for. A child could have predicted this reaction.

[Luke Emia]

Rumours that FSG might want out now as well. Can’t imagine the reception will be great for them when the crowds are back.

[randomlegend]

There can't be many worse ways of trying to launch this than the one they went for. A child could have predicted this reaction.

Yeah but they are all psychopaths aren't they. They literally won't be able to understand what's gone on.

[Spoonsky]

What a spectacular clusterfuck.

This has probably set the idea of a super league - which people have always been talking about as 'inevitable' even if they hated the idea - back by decades. What a result.

[Pepe]

Wait, so a bunch of teams announced yesterday that they would join a Super League, then one day later they are all like "nevermind, lol"? That is top planning, indeed. :D

[Manc]

Has Perez walked?

[Pepe]

They should just make up some scam where the league pays the players directly, and set the league's office in some tax haven somewhere. They will forget about THE FANS within five minutes.

[Shindig]

In all seriousness, if these clubs are worried about their pockets, they should really, really scale wages back and restructure the player contracts.

[Cord]

Looking forward to Perez's charred remains getting found outside the bunker by about 10pm at this rate.

I presume that in reality either the clubs will now go away and plot to do something similar in a slightly less pathetic manner or collapse immediately without the cash coming in. Something must have made them shit the bed and go all out without even having the basic details like the 15 teams nailed down.

[Lewis]

Graeme Souness: 'We're not America... Britain's a proper country... We are a proper country, and it's filled with proper people'

:cool:

[Shindig]

Their big problem is they're trying to present an alternative to a tried and tested organisation. Having the closed shop shoots that on sight. Then there's the obvious conflict of interests that come with appointing Perez as President.

[Spoonsky]

I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall for the conversations that the John Henrys and Stan Kroenkes are having right now.

[Yevrah]

You know all those ESL clubs will have been involved in the discussions and bringing this live/signing it off. It's not like it happened in a bubble.

Of course, but not only was that the best UEFA could come up with, they were happy to sign it off too.

[Yevrah]

Their big problem is they're trying to present an alternative to a tried and tested organisation. Having the closed shop shoots that on sight. Then there's the obvious conflict of interests that come with appointing Perez as President.

Tried and tested UEFA may be, but they're rubbish.

I have a nap and all hell breaks loose. I've genuinely no idea what's gone on here. It's too farcical for words.

[randomlegend]

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/man-utd-announces-ed-woodward-to-leave-role-at-end-of-2021?utm_campaign=ManUtd&utm_medium=post&utm_source=twitter

[randomlegend]

https://www.mancity.com/news/mens/club-statement-super-league-withdraw-63754546

[Danny]

Still be around to fuck us for one more summer then.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall for the conversations that the John Henrys and Stan Kroenkes are having right now.

What they've done is basically the equivalent of if a couple of London tycoons bought NFL teams, wandered in and told America listen, lads, what we're going to do now is get rid of your super bowls and your conferences and instead we're having a pyramid system with promotion and relegation, and maybe a knockout cup. Sound good?

The arrogance and stupidity is amazing. It's telling that only Henry, of the three, made his own money.

[Spoonsky]

https://twitter.com/JHenderson/status/1384597901079371778

I like how they've turned Milner's words from that interview into some kind of slogan.

[Bernanke]

https://twitter.com/JHenderson/status/1384597901079371778

I like how they've turned Milner's words from that interview into some kind of slogan.

Dreams can't be buy will be with us forever I think.

[Kikó]

Fuck off you greedy cunts. Now to legislate and remove the fuckers.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think the reason it's unravelled so quickly is to try and avoid that. Too late, though. I've lost quite a lot of interest in Chelsea over this. Why do it? Because you were scared of missing out on a cash grab? Pathetic. The entire boardrooms of all 12 clubs should get 10 year bans or something.

The level of misjudgement is incredible. I think it could have considerable implications beyond football, too.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

City are the only ones who have left officially.

Seems the others are still deciding and/or have decided to keep going with the Super League.

[7om]

If any of the clubs hang on to the concept then they are even more demented than I first thought.

[Shindig]

"JP Morgan are good for the money, right?"

[Manc]

Banning them from competing in Europe would be delicious.

[Jimmy Floyd]

After Florentino Perez spent all of last night flapping his gums about how great a thing it was, it's hard work for him to back down really. As for the Americans, they will be sitting around genuinely mystified as to why no one agrees with them. Agnelli is a fucking idiot who should be thrown out of public life and made to sell ice cream in a piazza somewhere for the rest of his days.

The others are just opportunists and/or idiots.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1384624005571825664

No English involvement in the ESL.

[randomlegend]

https://www.arsenal.com/news/open-letter-our-fans

Arsenal officially out.

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/431956-liverpool-football-club-statement-20-april-2021

And Liverpool.

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/official-statement-on-man-utd-withdrawal-from-european-super-league

And United.

https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2021/april/club-statement-20-april/

Tottenham too!

Chelsea running late.

[Lofty]

I'd love them all to get a points deduction and for Arsenal to go down as a result.

As an Arsenal fan I'd take a relegation if that is what is needed to get rid of Kroenke.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That statement is absolutely pathetic. There isn't a statement which can make right the basic betrayal at the heart of all this. It wasn't a 'mistake'. It was an attempt at ruthless greed which has blown up in their faces due to their own incompetence and lack of awareness.

'Didn't want to be left behind', fuck right off. If Chelsea release a similar one they can go fuck themselves.

[Waffdon]

1384578706136567810

:lol:

[Spoonsky]

I genuinely can't wait to hear how Perez and Agnelli spin this.

[Boydy]

That statement is absolutely pathetic. There isn't a statement which can make right the basic betrayal at the heart of all this. It wasn't a 'mistake'. It was an attempt at ruthless greed which has blown up in their faces due to their own incompetence and lack of awareness.

'Didn't want to be left behind', fuck right off. If Chelsea release a similar one they can go fuck themselves.

"The bigger boys made us do it"

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

"We're good guys, honest."

[Jimmy Floyd]

I genuinely can't wait to hear how Perez and Agnelli spin this.

Surely at least one of them's sending out for the whisky and revolver around now.

[Spoonsky]

"The bigger boys made us do it"

It's the most Arsenal statement you can imagine. I'm almost glad Liverpool gave it the cold and corporate single-paragraph job.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Liverpool statement is genuinely amazing.


Liverpool Football Club can confirm that our involvement in proposed plans to form a European Super League has been discontinued.

In recent days, the club has received representations from various key stakeholders, both internally and externally, and we would like to thank them for their valuable contributions.

Nothing about the sweet silver song of the lark, pity.

[Yevrah]

I'd assumed you'd only announce something like this if there was an actual plan. Apparently not. I'm actually staggered.

If UEFA want to regain any semblance of control they should ban them all from Europe for five years.

[-james-]

The United statement is probably the best one. Liverpool by far the worst.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They should all definitely be relegated at least one tier. Obviously the PL won't do that, but they should. They should also be banned from everything forever.

Fair play to Ceferin, from the moment he came out firing and called them all snakes yesterday it basically unravelled from there.

[Shindig]

I still think revising history is the way to go. Kevin Keegan would love it.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1384630297078243329

If true :harold:

[randomlegend]

They should all definitely be relegated at least one tier. Obviously the PL won't do that, but they should. They should also be banned from everything forever.

Fair play to Ceferin, from the moment he came out firing and called them all snakes yesterday it basically unravelled from there.

Again I don't see why the players etc. should be punished. They need to find a way to punish the owners who were actually responsible without fucking over the rest of the people in the clubs, who evidently didn't ever want it (or seemingly even know about it).

[Shindig]

Prove it, lads. Let's take this up a level.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1384630159349850115

Italian's are on their way out now it seems.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Again I don't see why the players etc. should be punished. They need to find a way to punish the owners who were actually responsible without fucking over the rest of the people in the clubs, who evidently didn't ever want it (or seemingly even know about it).

Clubs get deducted points for going into administration.

That's punishing players/fans for something the owners have done.

[Yevrah]

Without the English teams there nothing left to stay in.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Again I don't see why the players etc. should be punished. They need to find a way to punish the owners who were actually responsible without fucking over the rest of the clubs, who evidently didn't ever want it.

If my company's director fucks up and the company gets whacked, then I'll get whacked too, it's just life.

[Gray Fox]

That Liverpool statement is absolutely pathetic.

Hopefully we can now turf these bastards out and the clubs back. Then we can all get back to hating each other properly.

[7om]

The Liverpool one comes across as absolutely seething. Good.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1384653584684421122

:drool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1384649091477614593

So it's going to be the Spanish league plus Juventus?

1384656079775227905

[niko_cee]

That Souness quote is amazing.

:D

Sadly, by the time the stadiums are full again next season very few people are going to be taking any sort of retrospective moral stand on this.

The lollest outcome from here is for UEFA/someone to give in to the mob and issue some bans, thus freeing up midweeks for the next few seasons for these teams and de facto'ing the super league into existence, whilst simultaneously relegating their marquee competition to the status of continental Bundesliga [interesting overtures here], where the likes of West Ham and Leicester can experience the full FC Munchen treatment.

Obviously not going to happen.

[Andy]

Again I don't see why the players etc. should be punished. They need to find a way to punish the owners who were actually responsible without fucking over the rest of the people in the clubs, who evidently didn't ever want it (or seemingly even know about it).

How else do you punish them?

It has to be sporting sanctions or its pointless. These owners are all billionaires, a fine is meaningless.

[niko_cee]

The best take I saw yesterday was from a Fulham fan who said something to the effect that despite his club's official stance he knew full well that had they been invited they'd have been on board, as would ANY of the other Premier League clubs (it's basically what they are in on a domestic level), despite all the nauseating moralising.

[Queenslander]

People on Reddit publicly changing teams eg Villa and Leeds gave me a good lol today.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The most laughable aspect of the whole thing is that they genuinely think 'solidarity payments', i.e. stay in your place money, will make people think it's a good idea. It is that very mechanism - a few set clubs being the self-appointed patrons of the game - which repels people from the Super League concept in the first place.

If UEFA or anyone else now soften their position I will be very disappointed. Hammer the bastards.

I didn't give a fuck about Chelsea's result last night, shame they didn't lose really.

[Lofty]

If my company's director fucks up and the company gets whacked, then I'll get whacked too, it's just life.

I didn't realise you worked for the mafia :D

That has been a bit irritating with the holier than thou response from some fans. I work with an Everton fan who was giving it large ahead of the Arsenal match. He didn't have a comeback when I pointed out to him if current Everton sugar daddy Usmanov was in charge of Arsenal instead of Kroenke (back when they were vying for control in 2010 before Usmanov sold up) Arsenal would have still joined up.

Very few clubs have any morals, a lot of the outrage was about them being excluded from the party. Liverpool are always held up as the club with socialist values and a strong moral compass, everyone glossing over the Suarez shirts, paying their women's team less than checkout girls and now this shit show. Cash is king, football as we know it is dead. All we have left is the bantz and the accas.

[Baz]

When will the Class of 92 buy United?

[Andy]

If all clubs would be so desperate to join why could they only rustle up 12 teams? The fact they had to lower themselves to Spurs and Arsenal and still only managed 12 says it all.

Let's hope this starts as a catalyst for getting clubs fan/locally owned even if its just a percentage.

[Kikó]

Dock points and chuck them out of Europe. I'm not buying the players line. Then legislate to change club ownership structures. Make them burn.

[Spikey M]

Nothing will happen now. It's done.

[Gray Fox]

It's all alright now lads, he's apologised.

1384763846557147142

[Ian]

'LFC'

:sick:

[Shindig]

I think the worst thing about the proposal was how a club's domestic performance didn't matter. Imagine Arsenal or Spurs fielding kids every week so they can concentrate on the Bampions Beague. Your bread and butter cast aside for a strawberry trifle.

[Andy]

I think the worst thing about the proposal was how a club's domestic performance didn't matter. Imagine Arsenal or Spurs fielding kids every week so they can concentrate on the Bampions Beague. Your bread and butter cast aside for a strawberry trifle.

The extra money coming in would have given them all a big enough budget to have even bigger/stronger squads.

[Shindig]

For what, though? 12-14 weeks of the year just to make sure they don't wind up in the bottom five? I guarantee you, the Premier League, FA Cup and League Cup won't be any of their priorities.

[Ian]

Well you could use the domestic games as like the reserves, A chance for players to prove themselves or get fit for that all important mid-table shit-off coming up on the Wednesday against fellow ESL bottom-dwellers Arsenal.

Magical European Nights!

[randomlegend]

How else do you punish them?

It has to be sporting sanctions or its pointless. These owners are all billionaires, a fine is meaningless.

Ban them from owning teams in the league. Force them to sell and fuck off.

[Don]

Calls for a salary cap are nice and all but I suspect it may be tough to enforce. As ever with most of today's problems in society, a wealth tax is the solution.

[Disco]

The Premier League are only marginally less venal than this new lot, they'd be doing the same if they thought they could get away with it. The idea that they're going to suddenly make football all communist is laughable.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The key point being that they correctly do not think they can get away with it.

[Disco]

No but I bet they've discussed doing away with relegation, that would be number one on their list of things they'd never publicly admit to wanting.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I doubt the Premier League would want to do away with relegation. It provides 100% of the drama for half the league, and promoted clubs freshen up the product once a year.

Mike Ashley might want to do away with it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Here comes the Takesmith General: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-politicians-picking-on-the-football-super-league-

[Don]

In all fairness, in wasting a minute imagining the dogshit scenario of a league without threat of relegation, you could see a possible tiny positive in the fact your Burnley Brexitball merchants would all be out of a job. Every single one of those backwards cunts who promote and sustain negative football would be soon eradicated. But would a league of Graham Potters be particularly amazing? Probably not.

[Lewis]

It's all alright now lads, he's apologised.

1384763846557147142

https://i.imgur.com/PspHJjy.png

'And I hope you'll understand that even when we make mistakes...'

[Kikó]

:D x

[Lewis]

The Juventus idiot blaming Brexit for the government threatening the English teams must be a Boris Johnson initiative. GET THAT ON THE SIDE OF A BUS.

[Shindig]

They don't even have to change the numbers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/european_super_league_the_future_of_football/zw74g7h

Watched that Barca game for free 3 years later. :cool:

[Dquincy]

There seems to be a sense of entitlement that it's the fans' game. It isn't, it hasn't been for a long time...

"Today's fans" might not accept it, but they're irrelevant...

...and there is nothing they nor the government can do to stop this if the clubs involved stick to their guns.


....The clubs have all of the power. Every last bit of it.

These aged well.lol.

Sorry Yev, but the fans collective response (along with the other stakeholders) had a major impact on the turnabout yesterday.

[Dquincy]

The other thing...

So many fans are unhappy and self righteous about these owners at the moment. But these are the same fans that have been willing their clubs to spunk a load of money on signing the next superstar for their club. They can't have it both ways, if you want the big name signings, then you need the millionaire owners. And if you have millionaire owners, expecting some sort of socialist club is beyond naive.

[Dquincy]

Florentino Perez has just given another interview; the contents of which are devoid from reality. The fella really is on another planet.

[Yevrah]

These aged well.lol.

Sorry Yev, but the fans collective response (along with the other stakeholders) had a major impact on the turnabout yesterday.

It seemingly did so I guess I was wrong, but it still makes absolutely no sense they backed down so quickly. Prior to Sunday did they think they'd announce it and everyone would go "oh, ok, sounds good".

[phonics]

No they thought it wouldn’t matter when everyone didn’t say that.

[Yevrah]

You've lost me, how did it matter?

[Ian]

Florentino Perez has just given another interview; the contents of which are devoid from reality. The fella really is on another planet.

I've just scanned through it and with him and Agnelli I'm increasingly not sure whether this is just an act or if they actually believe this 'but how can football be good if my club isn't rich? :(' line. All the others who've made statements have largely rolled out the stock apology and accepted that this shit ain't gonna fly these two are giving it the misunderstood hero act and really fucking committing to it.

I may be overthinking it but it occurs to me those two have long associations with teams who've basically always been fairly title winners in their respective countries so maybe tied into the arrogance and greed is a genuine belief that something would be fundamentally wrong with football if those sides aren't prospering. In that interview between bouts of I'M SAVING FOOTBALL, YOU FOOLS there's a lot of "Well if Real Madrid can't afford to spaff £200m a season up the wall on players then what's even the point?"

Or, as a second theory, they're just cunts.

[Kikó]

The other thing...

So many fans are unhappy and self righteous about these owners at the moment. But these are the same fans that have been willing their clubs to spunk a load of money on signing the next superstar for their club. They can't have it both ways, if you want the big name signings, then you need the millionaire owners. And if you have millionaire owners, expecting some sort of socialist club is beyond naive.

Fan ownership doesn't mean socialist club(s).

[Kikó]

1385148369509703683?s=20

RedIssue have taken a moment to stop with conspiracy to do the stuff they're good at.

[7om]

The other thing...

So many fans are unhappy and self righteous about these owners at the moment. But these are the same fans that have been willing their clubs to spunk a load of money on signing the next superstar for their club. They can't have it both ways, if you want the big name signings, then you need the millionaire owners. And if you have millionaire owners, expecting some sort of socialist club is beyond naive.

I don’t think it’s as simple as this.

I want my team (Birmingham) to have a competent owner who doesn’t fire managers when they are doing well. Who doesn’t consistently violate financial rules etc. Never mind what goes on on the pitch. Instead, for the last ten years, we’ve had sheer incompetence and downright mind-boggling decision making in the club. All from faceless owners who use the club as a play-thing. Do the FA or the EFL care? Do they fuck.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Football is completely rotten to the core, culturally, you only have to look at what goes on in non-league football for that, or the fact that every fan seems to genuinely believe that every referee in existence is TERRIBLE and INCOMPETENT or even BIASED.

Add in mafioso charlatans like Agnelli and Perez with egos the size of Jupiter and zero accountability to anyone, and a good dusting of American nightmare capitalism, and you have this kind of situation.

[Waffdon]

British Super League now lolz

[Lewis]

:cool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

It would be quite a good way of killing the Scottish independence movement stone dead.

[ItalAussie]

I don't have particularly much to add to this, other than to say it was all very funny. There should be some pretty steep penalties, but it's hard to imagine that there will.

Juventus are clearly the bad guys, too. No sympathy whatsoever for this disgrace. :D

[ItalAussie]

Also, the sheer arrogance was mostly highlighted by how much it blindsided the players and managers. It's like the owners forgot that someone actually has to march out and play the games.

[Spoonsky]

Fan ownership doesn't mean socialist club(s).

I hadn't heard about that Germany 50+1 rule until this all happened. It seems like a quality compromise between SOCIALIST CLUBS and the current reality.

[Lewis]

German football was barely professional until the sixties, and one team, who happen to be from the wealthiest city in the wealthiest region, have won half of the titles since.

[niko_cee]

Problem with the [much vaunted] German Model is that it doesn't really allow for the Citys or Chelseas of this world to happen (unless you bend/break the rules), so you just end up with an extremely entrenched status quo that can never really be challenged. Much as the blood money sides are a menace, at least they provide some resistance to what would otherwise mostly be United winning the league forever (a la Bayern).

[Kikó]

I think there needs to be some protection against the vultures who currently inhibit the game. For every russian oligarch, you get the bloke who took over Portsmouth. These are community institutions that should be protected as best as we can. Football is England.

[Shindig]

Annoyingly, one of the sentiments I hear on facebook is, "Punish them and let MBS take over Toon!" which is just something I don't want to see. If the Court of Arbitration finds the Premier League took the piss, fair enough.

[Dquincy]

I've just scanned through it and with him and Agnelli I'm increasingly not sure whether this is just an act or if they actually believe this 'but how can football be good if my club isn't rich? :(' line. All the others who've made statements have largely rolled out the stock apology and accepted that this shit ain't gonna fly these two are giving it the misunderstood hero act and really fucking committing to it.

I may be overthinking it but it occurs to me those two have long associations with teams who've basically always been fairly title winners in their respective countries so maybe tied into the arrogance and greed is a genuine belief that something would be fundamentally wrong with football if those sides aren't prospering. In that interview between bouts of I'M SAVING FOOTBALL, YOU FOOLS there's a lot of "Well if Real Madrid can't afford to spaff £200m a season up the wall on players then what's even the point?"

Or, as a second theory, they're just cunts.

I don't think it's any coincidence that Real Madrid are the club with the most debt and their owner/president is the one with the most resolve to this shitfest.

It's baffling that clubs are allowed to rack up that much debt and continue with their excessive wage structure.

[Dquincy]

I don’t think it’s as simple as this.

I want my team (Birmingham) to have a competent owner who doesn’t fire managers when they are doing well. Who doesn’t consistently violate financial rules etc. Never mind what goes on on the pitch. Instead, for the last ten years, we’ve had sheer incompetence and downright mind-boggling decision making in the club. All from faceless owners who use the club as a play-thing. Do the FA or the EFL care? Do they fuck.
All fair comments.

[Dquincy]

1384858105679392772

[Lofty]

Also despite all the love for german football ownership didn't Leipzig just lol at the rules and get round them?

[Yevrah]

These review proposals into football are hilarious.

If we want to disband capitalism and all its trappings, then fine, they might just be workable, but much like with climate change, we're simply not going to.

It would be nice if we stopped pretending.

[Yevrah]

I mean, look at the fucking state of this shit.

1385590869374509056

[phonics]

Anything worthwhile that could come of it would be blocked by FIFA when they threaten to ban the national team for government interference anyway.

[Lewis]

RedIssue have taken a moment to stop with conspiracy to do the stuff they're good at.

Your actual, in real life mate appears to have cracked it, and it all ties into the 'Great Reset'.

[Kikó]

Maybe we're the wrong ones?

[Shindig]

I've finally booted up FIFA 99 and their Super League is the same format. :D

[Manc]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/25/boris-johnson-urged-reveal-if-endorsed-european-super-league-plans

Hopefully it's true so he now doubles down on change in legislation.

[John Arne]

A decent thread from Swiss Ramble on the ESL 12's finances;

1386562133702414337

[niko_cee]

Interesting, although as ever a bit lengthy and rambling.

Main takeaway personally is it reaffirms just how mad it was for FSG to bowl headlong into the whole thing. Having spent the best part of a decade laying the groundwork for being considered 'the right sort of Americans', and having very little debt or probably even significant losses to be to panicked by, they've torched all that [good] work with this (and Project Big Picture) and for what? Numpties.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I still think the main driving factor behind all 12 is that they're all scared of an impending TV rights crash (TV rights being the only thing driving the value of the sport in the first place) and the tranche that would be wiped off their investment as a result.

Every sport / means of entertainment has its peaks and troughs, football is no different.

[Lewis]

The clubs are presumably only worth what they're 'worth' if you factor in ever-increasing revenues. If United is worth four billion quid, you could strip every single penny out of it every single year and it would still be a pretty shit investment.

[Don]

They were but the goal contributions of the standout Fallon D'flor candidate dried up.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The clubs are presumably only worth what they're 'worth' if you factor in ever-increasing revenues. If United is worth four billion quid, you could strip every single penny out of it every single year and it would still be a pretty shit investment.

Why do the Glazers and so on like buying them? I can see why Roman Abramovich and the sand states want to launder money/reputation through the clubs, but American money into a sponge makes no sense unless they think 'a' Super League type game changer would make the clubs intrinsically way more valuable in the long run.

[Lewis]

The Glazers bought into football at the right moment, and the way they went about it, with both the total debt taken on and the rates it was taken on it, suggests that they knew exactly what sort of growth was coming down the line to pay for it all. They obviously want more money out of it, but they could sell up for two billion and have nothing to kvetch about. The other Americans have probably got into it a bit late to cash in to anything like the same extent.

[niko_cee]

The Glazers have made a fortune out of United, and Liverpool's mob essentially stole it off the other bunch of Americans/RBS so they're probably not doing too badly either.

[randomlegend]

Lol at Juve, Barca and Real doubling down hard on this.

I honestly believe all three of them are financially completely ruined and this was their only hope.

[Spikey M]

Scenes when the SuperLeague ends up being Juventus, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Southend United, Bury FC, Bolton and Portsmouth.

[Bernanke]

They did it to promote women's football huh.

[niko_cee]

Clearly some sort of Messi/Ronaldo curse.

A Faustian Pact type thing, United just thankful that WooWar was such a legendary wheeler dealer or they'd be heading the same way.

[randomlegend]

https://www.juventus.com/en/news/articles/statement-from-barcelona-juventus-and-real-madrid-30-07-21

Well I'm no expert but sounds like UEFA have taken a pasting.

[Giggles]

Is it back? :uhoh:

[Gray Fox]

They haven't properly shown off their proposals yet, but what's interesting is that in the time since, UEFA has put forward changes that got close to what the Super League was going to be anyway.

UEFA haven't stated there will be permanent members of the Champions League, however they can select teams who didn't qualify through their league based on their "European heritage" etc. So while this season, Liverpool and Chelsea are going to miss out, once the reform hits it wont matter if they finish 16th or 2nd. They'll still be in.

The purpose of the Super League was to take all power away from UEFA and put the select group of clubs in charge. Given that all of the English teams came running back with tail between legs, you wonder if they'd join back up knowing Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus are in charge.

[Kikó]

European 'eritage is exactly how tournaments should be decided.

[niko_cee]

By and large it is.

[Giggles]

Back on?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Let's hope so #blowitup

[niko_cee]

All hail The Line United Goalkicker Allstars.

[niko_cee]

I don't really follow how this new structure is meant to work - is it meant to replace domestic football? As, if it does, that's going to be way less football - 16 team league is 30 games home and away, with 5 more in 'the play-offs'. That's a 35 game season against what now, 60 games? I understand this is an attempt to move to an NFL style arrangement, but way less football, even if it is sold as being higher quality, which it won't be, seems a bit of a rubbish deal.

And if it is meant to replace European football with some form of domestic competition running alongside it, then it is going to be far too many games, so I don't really get it.

[Spikey M]

If I recall it was / is meant to run alongside the current competitions rather than replacing anything.

[Yevrah]

With this and the Saudi's very much about to change everything as we know it, I can only say. :drool:

[randomlegend]

The idea presumably being it brings so much money to the Super League clubs that they can afford to have an A-team for ESL games and a B-team for their pesky domestic obligations.

[phonics]

1737797898165719385

This has me wanting to get back to FM.

[phonics]

The idea presumably being it brings so much money to the Super League clubs that they can afford to have an A-team for ESL games and a B-team for their pesky domestic obligations.

The entire thing is going to be streamed on a free YouTube knock off and all revenue will be generated by pre-roll ads. It'd fail if they tried it.

[-james-]

I quite like the proposed format. Maybe more so than what we have at the moment?

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's awful. A team like Chelsea could finish 14th in both leagues until the end of time and never lose out on any cash whatsoever. It's designed to safeguard against a) fluctuations in form at the big clubs putting revenue streams at risk, and b) owners ever having to put any money into the sport.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Who is going to be in it?

Real Madrid, Barca and Italian teams?

Seems like most clubs don't want another round of fan backlash.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It best suits the Spanish pair, some Italian clubs and the American-owned English clubs, who I note (Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea anyway) have been slower to distance themselves from it than the others, perhaps they will do so in the coming hours, perhaps they won't.

Napoli bang up for it of course. I'd walk 52km to be part of the Star League.

[Luke Emia]

I think the biggest thing for me is the faux outrage from the likes of SKY when this is exactly what they did in 1990 when forming the Premier League.

Yes it’s designed to protect the rich clubs. But, that’s what 1992 was for to protect the big 6 Liverpool, United, Arsenal, Villa, Spurs and Everton(lol at those last 3) from having to give as much money to the rest of the league. This is just an extension of that in all honest and like that isn’t enough now, this super league won’t be enough in the future.

If it was ok to do 30 years ago and all the harm it’s done to English football over that time no point crying now when they want an even bigger pot to themselves in the future.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh, nothing will be enough until eventually all of sport is just Jeff Bezos playing table tennis against Mohammad Bin Salman while Jon Rahm and Mbappe applaud heartily at the end of each point.

The question is when, short of that, it all stops.

[Kikó]

I'm wishing the super League on so I can completely bin off watching it all.

[Baz]

It would be nice to not have to plan days around kickoffs.