Formula 1 2018 - No Women Edition

[Shindig]

Oh dear, we've all ignored Leclerc. :harold:

I don't like how he leaves the door open to be overtaken. Not that a Mercedes is likely to have that problem.

[Disco]

Is Gasly that bad? I'd say Verstappen has no right to have that car anywhere near the Ferraris, and Gasly is more or less where you'd expect him to be.

He certainly looks it this year. He isn't of course, he's just been thrown in too early and is way off the pace as a result. It's hurting the team as well, Verstappen would have won that race at the weekend had his team mate been anywhere near the front.

[SincereTheRebel]

Same goes for Valentino Rossi's bike records. Never thought I'd see someone up on those so soon.

Lewis' run has been great. He and Schumi have some good parallels when you consider they both had that torrid stint where they drove the wheels off absolute shite.

Who and what record of Rossi's is close to being beaten?

[Shindig]

Now that I've actually look at the record books, none :D

He'll have Agostini's record for title wins (8) before he wraps up. He already has most pole positions. One more pole at CoTAs or Sachsenring and he'll have record for poles at the same venue. He's 25 off Valentino's record for fastest laps, half-way to Valentino's record for wins. Some of Agostini's records are near impossible to beat. I cannot see me living to see anyone win 20 races in a row. Or 100% a season.

[Limoutsonik]

Now that I've actually look at the record books, none :D

He'll have Agostini's record for title wins (8) before he wraps up. He already has most pole positions. One more pole at CoTAs or Sachsenring and he'll have record for poles at the same venue. He's 25 off Valentino's record for fastest laps, half-way to Valentino's record for wins. Some of Agostini's records are near impossible to beat. I cannot see me living to see anyone win 20 races in a row. Or 100% a season.

He ain't winning any more titles Rossi is. I am a massive fan of his but his ship has sailed. Can't teach an old dog new tricks. Yamaha bikes are shit now(at least that factory duo) and Rossi is past it and just clinging on for dear life. Marc Marquez is going to break all of his records and Agostini's,on account of having no one to challenge him properly,he is 26 years old and already has 5 premier class championships.

[Shindig]

Yeah, should've phrased that better. The paragraph was about Marquez. The thing about Honda is they've not really done a bad bike. Valentino's hung around for just too long as he's become more of a brand than an actual threat. I'll say this, though: You never know when a new Spanish wonderkid will pop through. I had high hopes for Vinales, I still have hopes for Mir.

[Limoutsonik]

My money is on that Quartararo fellow,he seems to have decent pace and he has been climbing through the ranks pretty fast.I just wish Rossi would just retire and make his own team. You know he would attract the best mechanics in the field and could also see the return of Honda if that happens(him making a team that is).

[SincereTheRebel]

I haven't watched moto go in years.
I stopped watching it after Norris Abe (I think that was his name) retired. He had a different style on the bike that looked wicked and unique.

Is Marquez that small guy who had a lean angle where his head was on the floor and he won like 15 races in a row?

[Shindig]

Yep. Elbows out. Rossi putting his own MotGP team out makes the most sense. He already does that at Moto3 level and has an academy of riders. Slap his sponsors on a satellite Yamaha and go.

[Gray Fox]

Albon and Gasly have swapped seats. That'll be Red Bull sorted for next year, but you'd imagine 2 new drivers for Toro Rosso.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Marko is an absolute moron. You put any kid in this car and they will get pumped by Max.

[Disco]

Awful decision, this could ruin Albon before he even started.

[Disco]

I've just realised they're doing it this season. Fuck me.

[Disco]

Sato with a fucking deathwish this weekend.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There is a bit of that in every Japanese driver, just like there is a honking cheat in every German, a scheming piece of shit in every French, and a whining little girl in every British.

[Shindig]

Man, I'd have happily kept Heidfeld around for his big cheat moment. Taking Renault to court doesn't count. They fucked him over.

[SincereTheRebel]

They had Suzuka 89 on F1 tv where Senna and Prost collided.

Senna broke his front wing when he collided with Prost and had pit
Senna had to then do a full lap without a front wing
Senna flew down the pit lane (didn't look like there was any speed limit?)
Mechanics in jeans and shirts changed his front wing
Senna came out of the pit with about 6 laps left, in second place and only five seconds behind the leader.
Senna won by five seconds but was disqualified

Some mad car advantage he seemed to have. It was complete madness.

[Shindig]

Yeah, pit lane limits came into force after Imola 94. Senna drove out of his skin but nothing mattered because push-starts weren't allowed. Ballestri seemed to forget about this and made up some bollocks about track limits. Or Senna made it up, like how me reckoned the grid had been swapped a year later.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That race won by Sandro Nannini, who promptly did a Kubica in a chopper accident which ended his career.

[Disco]

Very similar injuries, both almost lost a hand. I still have the Scalectric version of that Benetton in a box somewhere.

[Gray Fox]

There's just been a major crash in the F2 race at Spa.

Looks like 2 cars collided just after Au Rouge flattens out and went into the wall on the right. One of the cars has been torn in half and the other didn't look in great shape either. I wouldn't be surprised if both guys aren't fighting for their lives.


EDIT: After seeing footage of someone in the crowd, the first car hits the wall on the right I'm guessing after losing it over the crest. His car then rolls back into the road and another goes head on into the side of the car at full speed.

[Shindig]

Just seen it. You're hoping you just get broken ankles and a concussion from something like that.

[Trancemeister]

Antoine Hubert died from that crash

[Shindig]

Christ. :(

[Gray Fox]

Having seen the footage I'm really not surprised. He's been speared at what must be the best part of 180mph.

Any news on the other driver?

[Shindig]

Stable condition, apparently.

[Pleb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoOkTOUXaqc

:|

[Gray Fox]

The poor bastard never had a chance. Only 22 as well.

[Disco]

Horrible for everyone involved, can't imagine how Correa is going to feel after that. Wouldn't be surprised to see some re-modelling of that part of the track. This cold easily have happened when Ericson had a similar accident a couple of years ago.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Was it the same spot where Bellof and Ickx collided all those years ago? I have no real desire to watch it.

[Disco]

Top of the hill after Eau Rouge, looks like Hubert lost it and hit the barrier then came back onto the track. Correa came along with absolutely no chance to react and hit him in the side.

[Shindig]

Wouldn't be surprised to see some re-modelling of that part of the track. This cold easily have happened when Ericson had a similar accident a couple of years ago.

I dunno. You touch Eau Rouge at your peril. The tire wall did it's job with Magnussen's crash but Hubert got spat back out.

[SincereTheRebel]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

That accident was fucked up. The car was cut in two.

[John Arne]

Verstappen :face:

[Pepe]

I think that one was on Kimi. He just cut through both cars on his right. First corner, give some space ffs.

[Clunge]

Kimi would have absolutely no way of seeing Max coming. Max acknowledged as much after the race. His mistake imo trying too hard to recover after a poor getaway. Gutted for Norris - had to ditch it on the pit straight from fifth at the start of the last lap. Brilliant drive.

[Disco]

Kimi is Mr Racing Room, he'd have left space if he thought someone was going to be there. That one is on Max more than anyone else.

[Pepe]

It's a racing incident, no one is really at fault. Kimi had just passed that car, so he needs to know someone might be there and leave room. Max should also know that he won't be visible in his mirrors, play it safe, and drop back. None of them played it safe, both of them wanted to hit the apex and not lose any time, which is how you end up with contact. I guess that if we need to assign fault, more has to go to Verstappen, since he is the one behind.

[Shindig]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/49619035

:(

After seeing some frank explanations of how the accident came about, the track was a factor but there was just an awful combination of drivers taking the same evasive actions. I suspect, if they can, they'll modify Radillon so the tire wall on the left (the side Alesi hit) is further back.

[Clunge]

Another whopper this morning - driver and marshals fine, apparently.

https://twitter.com/F1FeederSeries1/status/1170264963124015104

[SincereTheRebel]

What did he run over? that cant be a raised Kerb, nobody is that stupid. That corner is stupid fast to put one there

[Disco]

It's one of those little sausage kerbs, driver and marshals very lucky.

[Disco]

Fuck me what a shambles.

[Gray Fox]

Am I really reading right that all but 1 driver left the pitlane too late to get a final lap in? How does that even happen?

[Disco]

They left in time but then all bumbled around on the outlap trying not to be first in the queue (and give everyone else a slipstream), the upshot being only Sainz got over the line before the chequered flag went out.

[SincereTheRebel]

Vettel has been out qualified by that lad from Monaco about 10 races in a row now.

[Disco]

Whoever the director is on this needs shooting, stop cutting away from the race to show a load of plebs in the crowd.

[Gray Fox]

Black flag Vettel and Stroll for that bollocks.

[Disco]

Depends on the angle whether they could see properly but both of those looked bad.

[SincereTheRebel]

That was a monster drive from Leclerc. Vettel is all over the place. He defended really well. Mercedes should be complaining further to the stewards, just because they can.

[Shindig]

Stroll and Vettel should get grid penalties for that nonsense. Although starting Vettel further back probably invites more trouble. LeClerc defended for his life. I'd be seeing that as a turning point for the season but I thought the same about Verstappen from his back-to-backs.

[Disco]

I don't think this heralds a grand resurgence from Ferrari, we've run out of straight line dominated tracks. Even yesterday Ferrari had the slower car, it was just fast enough in the right places that they couldn't be overtaken.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah, Singapore will be a rude awakening I fear.

[Shindig]

Fair. They do tend to produce at Spa and Monza. It's all the fiddly shit until Suzuka in about 14 rounds time.

[Pepe]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.watch-first-footage-of-an-f1-car-on-18-inch-tyres.3Pa8xhpNlqVNWIDhulIWGJ.html

That doesn't look bad.

[Shindig]

Schumacher's been having some stem cell treatments. The full Christopher Reeve.

EDIT: I've started watching 1994. I barely remember any of it as a kid. I've got 20 laps of Brazil left and Schumacher's just lapped Hill in 3rd. Christ. Also clocked the first big crash of the year. Verstappen being shifted wide into a spin by Irvine in the Jordan. Verstappen barrel rolls, almost takes Brundle's head with it and four cars are out. The liveries are very 90s with the only one looking bland being the black Sauber box.

As soon as Senna spins out, the grandstands fucking empty.

[Shindig]

Finished Imola 1994. It's the best race of the year so far but there's so much of the carnage I forget. One of the wheels from the start crash clears the grandstand, Martini's loose wheel from the pit stop barrelling into the Ferrari and Lotus pit crews, etc. I really liked ESPN's commentary duo of a yank whose name I can't remember and Derek Daly. So much talk about engines, bigging up Schumacher's mad start to the year and managing to keep their shit together whilst everything goes to shit. Daly was livid with the medical crews not getting to Senna immediately and by the time the loose wheel runs through the pit lane, Bob Varscha finally gives up.

As for the race, doing it on aggregate time gave it some kind of intrigue. Hill had to fight his way back from contact with Schumi. Katayama finished 5th. Larini did a decent job subbing for Alesi and Mika finished strongly in 3rd. The scrap between Berger and Schumacher at the restart was decent. Monaco's off to a great start with Wendlinger's quali crash. He's doing alright in the Sauber but that impact at the chicane put him in a coma.

It's like watching 9/11.

[SincereTheRebel]

LeClerc. :drool:

[Disco]

Haven't watched much of this weekend, have the Ferrari aero upgrades just been absolute gold or have they mullered their race pace in favour of track position?

[Gray Fox]

The former. They do have the better car overall now instead of just engine.

Mercedes having great race pace and a Hamilton is what's keeping the battle up there.

This piddling about slowing down on purpose is shit.

[Disco]

This Mercedes strategy is very odd.

[Gray Fox]

They're very bold on thinking the others will die off at the end.

[Gray Fox]

Can we just ban Grosjean from all future races please?

[Jimmy Floyd]

This is a crap circuit, nothing can happen without a safety car ensuing.

[John Arne]

I haven't seen a replay of the Russell-Grosjean incident... anyone (Grosjean) to blame?

[Gray Fox]

The door was closed but he(Grosjean) tried to force it in anyway.

[niko_cee]

Such a dire race.

[Gray Fox]

Whoever did strategy for Hamilton and LeClerc is getting an earful tonight.

[niko_cee]

Trying to second guess the safety car is probably the best strategy in Singapore, well, perhaps second best to instigating one.

Mercedes got it wrong by about 3 laps didn't they?

Hamilton is just concerned about winning the title, so as long as Bottas is behind him and he finishes races that's all that really matters.

[niko_cee]

I half wonder if Mercedes haven't got their eye on next season developmentally, or are at least allocating more resources to it than they would if they felt they were really in a title fight.

[SincereTheRebel]

Didn't Alonso win in singapore by getting his teammate to drive into the wall?

[Shindig]

Leclerc's a monster at the minute. Hamilton's done well to split them.

[Jimmy Floyd]

One minute warning, this start time nearly caught me out.

Can't wait to see how Ferrari will blow this advantage over the winter.

[Gray Fox]

Mercedes don't seem to have brought many, if any, upgrades since before the summer break.

Maybe they've assumed the titles won and are pumping resources into 2020?

[John Arne]

Does LeClerc just want the FIA just to hand him the championship? Easier that way.

"We'll talk about it later". You're a rookie kid, reel it in.

[Gray Fox]

"Multi 2, 1. Seb"

[Jimmy Floyd]

I would lol at Seb for refusing to accept team orders, but the team orders were absolutely retarded so he's probably right.

[John Arne]

I would lol at Seb for refusing to accept team orders, but the team orders were absolutely retarded so he's probably right.

Yup. I'm no Seb fan - but the orders were silly. As for LEC saying "I gave him the tow"... You were in pole mate - you had no choice. He did you - let it go.

[Serj]

It does sound like it was a pre-race agreement, he didn't even defend into the first corner. Not that it makes a lot of sense then, either.

[Disco]

Love this from Vettel, proper billy big balls move.

[Gray Fox]

You also don't swap drivers 10 laps into a race.

[Disco]

It does sound like it was a pre-race agreement, he didn't even defend into the first corner. Not that it makes a lot of sense then, either.

It's fairly clear that the deal was Leclerc would give him the slipstream off the start in order to get him past Hamilton then they would swap back around. Vettel has muddied the waters a bit by getting a perfect start then disappearing up the track. He can conceivably shrug his shoulders and say he would have let him by had be been behind him.

[Disco]

Bottas is getting hung out to dry again here.

[Serj]

It's fairly clear that the deal was Leclerc would give him the slipstream off the start in order to get him past Hamilton then they would swap back around. Vettel has muddied the waters a bit by getting a perfect start then disappearing up the track. He can conceivably shrug his shoulders and say he would have let him by had be been behind him.

Well yes. Though there was a lot of radio discussion going on while Leclerc was actually directly behind him.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Ferrari are proper mugging this up. They just can't help themselves.

[Gray Fox]

Holding Vettel out longer to avoid the argument :p

[Jimmy Floyd]

Riccardo Dastardli obviously unscrewed something during that pit stop.

[Gray Fox]

Well this post race is going to be very interesting.

How convenient that is.

[Disco]

Turning his engine off was a bit much.

[Gray Fox]

Can't wait to see how Ferrari will blow this advantage over the winter.

You didn't even have to wait an hour.

[Disco]

Mercedes 1-2 here would be hilarious.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Is he waiting to put the engine into quattro formaggi mode in the last five laps or is this it? Starting to think it's the latter.

[Gray Fox]

I think that's it.

Tin foil hat time says Vettel stopped the car where he did as a fuck you to the team, to cause a safety car.

[Gray Fox]

Ferrari fucking that up in almost every way they could. Mercedes 1-2 and topped off by driving home in formation. Glorious.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't understand why it's 'unfair' if someone gets a slipstream off the start. That's just physics. They tied themselves in knots over it.

[Gray Fox]

It's unfair that the other guy was miles faster than me, so I demand the overtake.

[Disco]

I think they wanted to stop them fighting into turn one but they swapped them at the pit stop anyway so tgat should be that. Different story if Leclerc had stuck to the back of him but he was four seconds down the road so he doesn't have much to complain about.

[7om]

I think that's it.

Tin foil hat time says Vettel stopped the car where he did as a fuck you to the team, to cause a safety car.

I think that's exactly what happened. The way he got out the car and jumped off it looked like he was really happy with himself.

If it's not already, I can see the team atmosphere becoming really toxic really fast in Ferrari.

[niko_cee]

They told him to stop it, he got as humanly possible to an easy recovery point and it was the Williams that triggered the full safety car.

[Shindig]

Yeah, I can't have any complaints from how Seb performed today. Parked it up in a safe spot and Leclerc wasn't closing him down when the orders were given.

[Disco]

NASCAR can piss off with it's 'Roval', going to actual race tracks is one thing but there's a perfectly good oval for your stock cars right there and you're making them piss about in chicanes.

[Shindig]

They just can't have 850HP saloon cars driving around Mid Ohio or whatever. It doesn't fit.

[phonics]

NASCAR can piss off with it's 'Roval', going to actual race tracks is one thing but there's a perfectly good oval for your stock cars right there and you're making them piss about in chicanes.

It's it building something that Indy can race on that doesn't come with the same likelihood of death as the traditional oval?

[bruhnaldo]

NASCAR can piss off with it's 'Roval', going to actual race tracks is one thing but there's a perfectly good oval for your stock cars right there and you're making them piss about in chicanes.

I agree it's kinda stupid but I will say I enjoyed watching them try to manage the first corner after every restart, including one in which the eventual winner of the race seemingly forgot all about the turn and drove straight into the wall as such.

https://www.nascar.media/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2019/09/2019-Sep-30-steveluvender-charlotte-roval-gifs-15.gif

Which was even better when he then did a burnout in that exact spot after he won

https://www.nascar.media/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2019/09/2019-Sep-30-steveluvender-charlotte-roval-gifs-16.gif

NASCAR is cool sometimes.

[bruhnaldo]

i didn't even notice these:

https://www.nascar.media/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2019/09/2019-Sep-30-steveluvender-charlotte-roval-gifs-18.gif

https://www.nascar.media/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2019/09/2019-Sep-30-steveluvender-charlotte-roval-gifs-17.gif

what a fucking DON

[Disco]

It's dumb, and not the good kind of dumb that NASCAR does so well. The stupid penalty zone for missing the chicane is the worst thing I've seen since I tried to understand how you have a playoff in a motor racing series (or more importantly why you'd want one). Taking NASCAR to road courses is inherently silly but the novelty value makes it worth it, doing it in full view of a proper oval was just taking the piss.

[Shindig]

Yeah, the playoff's the worst part of the structure. Just play it straight. The best man wins, etc.

[Disco]

The schedule for tomorrow is brutal, qualy at 2am then the race at 6am. Ouch.

[Giggles]

The schedule for tomorrow is brutal, qualy at 2am then the race at 6am. Ouch.

Why is that? Weather?

[Disco]

Yup, same typhoon that's affected the rugby (Suzuka is near Nagoya) so they cancelled all of today's sessions.

[Disco]

I assume this is a sort of replacement for today's sessions but the F1 youtube channel ran the 2005 Japanese GP this morning a race which demonstrates, among other things, just how bang average Fisichella was and how satisfying it is to see Briatore losing races he should have won.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omtp_x00DNw

[Gray Fox]

No one had better bin it in Qualy then. I assume it'll still be windy/rainy too.

[Shindig]

If it's still risky, they'll use the FP2 times.

[Disco]

It's supposed to be dry tomorrow so it should be fine but there will inevitably be some knob (Grosjean) who fucks their race up by breakfast.

[Gray Fox]

Magnussen and Kubica into a wall within 10 minutes. Their mechanics will be delighted.

[SincereTheRebel]

Leclerc :cool:

Ignoring team orders. Refusing to pit. Most of the wing thst was dragging around, has now fallen off so he may be ok.

[Disco]

So we're just ignoring jumped starts now are we?

[Disco]

And I notice we've not seen the driving standards flag since Monza, funny that.

[Giggles]

Calm down, Hamilton is still going to win the WC.

[Disco]

As if that's the point, they can't even apply the rules consistently within the same team.

[SincereTheRebel]

Is Vettel a broken man? I don't watch every race but when i do, Vettel is making stupid silly mistakes.

[Disco]

This was the first since Monza.

[John Arne]

The TV directors have been useless recently. We missed Albion charging through the field earlier, and now missed all of Ricciardo's overtakes.

[Disco]

Albon getting a bit more London born and a bit less Thai with that result.

[Disco]

Toto in his interview saying his drivers have been able to race all season :harold:

Toto, it's James....

[Gray Fox]

I see now the titles are in the bag we're playing the "keep Bottas happy" game again.

[Serj]

I just saw that Leclerc has finally been handed a penalty for the Verstappen incident and driving the car in an unsafe condition. How that takes hours to decide is a mystery to me.

If they're really concerned about safety, they should have black flagged him. Or at least ordered Ferrari to pit him immediately.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why didn't Seb get one for the jump start?

[Disco]

He stopped and didn't go past the line/grid box, took them more than 10 laps to get around to looking at it though.

[niko_cee]

Did a bit of LeClerc's car come off and hit Hamilton's (taking his wing mirror off)? Absolutely mental that's not Schumacher-esque insta-black flag territory, considering how (perhaps rightly) anal they are about safety these days.

[Disco]

He should have had the black and orange flag meaning he has to pit, perhaps all their flags had blown away.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Regrettably they seem to have lost the plot a bit on this front since Charlie Whiting died.

[John Arne]

Except for Brundle, why do all the F1 pundits have such incredibly tight pants on?

Di Resta particularly appears to be attempting to cut of any circulation to his legs,

[Giggles]

Coulthard and Jordan always look like they’ve childs legs. Though Jordan has the body to match.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Grand Prix drivers are all diddy. Hulkenberg is supposed to be tall enough that it's a problem, and he is about six foot at best.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The moment in each race when you realise Ferrari have ballsed it up again is so good.

[Disco]

I'm not sure they have.

[Jimmy Floyd]

For about 10 laps it seemed like they had. They have however thrown Leclerc to the wolves (again).

[Disco]

Maybe, Hamilton could well be sitting duck in a minute.

[Giggles]

Channel 4 must have dropped in coverage have they? Not a hope they’ve half the races these days, it seems like they’ve shown two or three max.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They have one or two max, I think.

If Hamilton hangs on to this the others should all give up.

[Giggles]

They have one or two max, I think.

Not much point in following it now at all then. The way Sky insist on showing it is fucking ridiculous too.

[Disco]

They have one or two max, I think.

If Hamilton hangs on to this the others should all give up.

They've absolutely robbed this.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Sky Sports is a worthwhile investment for me tbh, but if you only follow one or two of the sports they have it probably isn't.

[Giggles]

Sky Sports is a worthwhile investment for me tbh, but if you only follow one or two of the sports they have it probably isn't.

I’d have no problem getting it for F1, NFL, golf for a start but Sky Sports F1 is for Sky subscribers only (that’s the fucking ridiculous bit). I have Virgin Media TV and broadband, and can subscribe to Sky Sports on it but I’d get every channel except F1. As much as I’d like to see it there’s fuck all chance I’m getting the house wrecked by some dodgy dish installer so I can give up my 360Mb/s cable internet for some 30Mb/s phone line shite. Even if they let you pay extra for it I wouldn’t mind.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Lol at the 'fans' voting Verstappen driver of the day for another rank poor bumble from the back ahead of that masterclass by Hamilton.

[Disco]

I reckon there'll be a direct subscription service soon enough.

[Shindig]

F1 TV is trying to get there but very poorly.

[Gray Fox]

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11850315/f1-2021-rules-press-conference-live


They're trying to go through the changes coming in 2021. I'm not sure if the mooted BIG TYRES is one that's on there though.

[Shindig]

I've had a glance. Sounds like they want to keep a check on downforce but engineers always craft a way around that. Engines are staying the same which is fair enough. And a budget cap of $175m. I often wonder how caps effect a sport like this because the big teams still hold a sway that's more than financial.

[Lewis]

Expecting slower lap times stands out. What's the point then?

[Jimmy Floyd]

They want to reduce dirty air and make cars easier to follow. Fans think they want a spec series with wacky overtaking when what they actually want is more than one team to be competent at any given time.

[Shindig]

I mean, Ferrari's incompetence has fuck all to do with budget and aero. Red Bull have had their moments too. You usually get five different winners a season regardless of hardware. That and Hamilton is simply too good. Once he leaves, there's a proper scramble between the rest.

[SincereTheRebel]

Lewis is on his way to become the GOAT. Ferrari have fucked up too many times this season with random weirdness.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think Hamilton has already surpassed Schumacher as the best I've seen, partly because he has always raced fairly.

Fangio, Clark and Senna I have as a top three and it's hard to really judge him with or above them unless he goes off and wins in a shitbucket (albeit none of those three really did that, because it's almost impossible).

[Disco]

Lewis is yet to have the FIA purposefully screw over his team in order to stop him winning so that sort of evens out Schumis cheating. They're pretty similar to me, both the fastest on their respective grids; both got themselves into the best team/car at the right time; both able to win in inferior machinery; both changed the sport in some manner (Schumacher with his approach to conditioning and Hamilton with his ability to overtake almost anywhere).

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah I have just spent 24 years despising Schumacher (even the vegetable version, soz Schumi) so it's hard to be unbiased.

I have:
1 Clark
2 Senna
3 Fangio
4 Prost
5 Hamilton / Schumacher / maybe Stewart

[Gray Fox]

Fans think they want a spec series with wacky overtaking when what they actually want is more than one team to be competent at any given time.

Nailed it. If we had a more competent Ferrari and a better engine in the Red Bull we'd easily have at least a 3 way fight each season. But we'll see which of them takes the baton and runs off with the 2021 season, because that'll happen.


As for Hamilton, it'll be it'll be interesting to see how he's looked back upon. He's broken a lot of records and should complete the ones he hasn't before he hangs it up. The only one he wont get is fastest laps, especially now they've opened up the extra point for it.

He should grab the wins record and could push it into triple figures depending on what happens in 2021. He's a full 30 ahead of Vettel too, so it'll be onto the next generation in LeClerc and Max to try and chase him down.

Yet even now I know plenty who disregard him as a top driver for various reasons.

[Disco]

The ever sensible Joe Saward posted this today which seems apposite.



Things were not better in the past.

We live in troubled times, or at least we think we do. A recent survey by political scientists at the University of Michigan, the Université de Montréal, and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, which was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, concluded that people across the world find bad news more interesting than good news. The survey was based on 1,156 respondents in 17 countries, across six continents, and showed a negativity bias in psychophysiological reactions to video news content. The people being surveyed watched seven randomly ordered BBC World News stories on a laptop computer while wearing noise-cancelling headphones and sensors on their fingers to capture skin conductance and blood volume pulse.

In other laboratory experiments it was found that people can hit a button faster when responding to negative words, rather than positive ones. The word “bomb” gets a quicker response that the word “baby”. The theory is that humans have evolved to react more quickly to potential threats and paying attention to negative news is generally a more effective survival strategy. Thus, the argument goes, reports about sudden disasters are more compelling than slow improvements. You never turn on the news and hear a reporter saying: “I’m live from a place where war has NOT broken out”. Plane crashes always make the news, but car crashes kill far more people but are rarely mentioned.

In a world where news has become a money-making industry, the goal of publishers is not to report accurately, but rather to get higher ratings, or more hits. In the United States they have an expression for this: “If it bleeds, it leads”. Journalists used to report the news in a fair and balanced way, with integrity, but today news-gathering is being sensational, interviewing victims and their families. It’s about ratings and the advertising revenues that comes from them.

The reason I ruminate on these matters is twofold: firstly, it’s fascinating stuff; and secondly because Formula 1 suffers from incredibly negative coverage, even when the sport itself seems to be doing pretty well. It’s a concept that I have been trying to understand for a few years now. Formula 1 is a world of positive people, always pushing forwards, always looking ahead. The only reason they look backwards is when they analyse things that have gone wrong and learn from their mistakes. There are a few who believe that whatever can go wrong, will go wrong, but most believe that things will work out in the end. That doesn’t mean they don’t complain and criticise, but they are not bogged down in negativity. They don’t think like victims. They live for the day - and for the future.

One of the things that I have noticed over time is that so many media and race fans are lost in nostalgia for F1 in earlier ages. Some think of the 1960s, others of the 1980s. Things were always better in the past, or so they think. That is not true in the F1 paddock. If you live in the past in F1, you lose and you are gone.

When I hear people say that Formula 1 is not like it used to be, I disagree. It’s different, sure, but in the overall scheme of things it’s better in so many ways - and it is getting better still with each passing year. Yes, perhaps there are too many races, and drivers do not show their true character as much as they used to, perhaps there is too much emphasis on safety but, in the overall scheme of things, the past was not better. This point was made to me, years ago, by the 1967 World Champion, Denny Hulme, who I had the great good fortune to get to know quite well.

“We used to race anywhere and everywhere,” he said. “We didn’t take any notice of the trees, power poles and rocks. We just raced. If you looked back now you’d say we were bloody stupid, but we didn’t know any better. Now we have the most incredibly hygienic circuits you have ever seen. Some people criticise them. They say it’s terribly boring motor racing. Yes, compared to the old Nürburgring, I suppose it is. But it’s better than going to a funeral every Tuesday morning.”

Idealizing the past and being negative about the present is a waste of time because nostalgia is a warm and fuzzy version of reality, rather than the real thing. Woody Allen highlighted this in his wonderful “Midnight in Paris”in 2011 in which the lead character, Gil Pender (played by Owen Wilson), finds himself transported back in time to the expatriate artistic circles of Paris in the Roaring Twenties, meeting such literary luminaries as Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway and Gertrude Stein. In his visits to the Twenties, he meets the seductive Adriana, played by Marion Cotillard, who explains to him that she believes that life was better in the Paris of the Belle Epoque in the 1890s. They travel together back to that era and encounter great artists such as Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec, Edgar Degas and Paul Gauguin, but they find that Gauguin is nostalgic for the Renaissance, which itself was an expression of a longing for an idealized past in the age of antiquity.

Understanding that the past is not really better than the present, Pender is able to return to his modern life and sort out his problems by freeing himself of fear and negativity and he ends up looking to the future, personified by Gabrielle, an antique dealer played by Léa Seydoux.

What F1 media forgets in its nostalgia and negativity is that they are living the dream and that the millions of people around the world who read their words don’t want to be told how bad things are. They want their dream of F1 to be a positive place. Perhaps the lure of bad news still exists - it’s apparently in our DNA - but we will all be better off if we look at the positives and not always look for crises and fights, crashes and scandals.

We should embrace and enjoy the moment with great characters such as Lewis Hamilton, Sebastian Vettel and Daniel Ricciardo. We should appreciate the strange monosyllabic icon who is Kimi Raikkonen and we should be excited by the new generation, rising up to battle the big stars - and one another - moving this great sport on to a new era, which will be different, but no less fascinating...

[SincereTheRebel]

How much faster are the hamiltons compared to the senna's? They raced at the same venues and track layouts?

[Shindig]

Senna's pole time at Interlagos in 1994: 1:15.962
Lewis' 2018 pole: 1:07.281

That's the power of downforce.

Prost's 1993 Monaco pole: 1:20.557
Ricciardo's 2018 pole: 1:10.810

[Jimmy Floyd]

Current cars are quicker/better than old cars, but the old cars were obviously harder to drive, I would say, or at least there were a lot more pitfalls in driving them as well as in terms of reliability.

There is basically a lot less randomness now. Even compared to ten years ago you don't get Jarno Trulli or whoever chucking his Toyota on the front row in favourable circumstances. How many times this year have McLaren down qualified anyone in the top six?

[Jimmy Floyd]

The answer to the above question is more third rows than I thought, but only once (Ricciardo in Canada) have any of them got onto the second row.

[Lewis]

The cheerleaders seem to conflate necessary safety improvements with everything else that has been regulated to death. It seems to me that you could still satisfy the constructors' desire for some sense of certainty with a simple engine formula alongside simple regulations (no movable aerodynamics, one tank of fuel, etc.) to make it worth a wank.

[Gray Fox]

The 2 latest "changes" to the Formula show what will happen when it changes again.

The move to stop the Red Bull winning everything brought us into the hybrids. Mercedes were so far ahead of everyone that it took about 4 years for anyone to even get close with a power unit. Then we change the aero about 2 years ago and again Mercedes have the best package and it's taken until about now for any other car to properly compete with them.

Ferrari fucking up spectacularly aside, next year we should have a pretty good race between 2, possibly 3 teams. Then we hit the reset button again. In all likelihood we will have 1 team get it very right and walk the title. If it's the teams in the midfield you want overtaking and battling harder, then great. Get rid of your pay drivers and actually bring in someone who can race.

[Shindig]

Autosport mentioned in a video how they feel changing regs every five years knackers the field up. It needs to be something closer to ten years to allow the field to tighten. We had a gloriously competitive summer with Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes sharing the spoils. That's getting thrown to the wind unless a top team (ala McLaren in 2009) completely lose their footing.

[Jimmy Floyd]

To be fair I think Ferrari have probably had the edge on car this year, certainly on power unit. They've been the architects of their own downfall and also up against an all time great driver.

No doubt the new formula will see Stroll and Racing Point, well, stroll into an era of unsurpassed dominance.

[Jimmy Floyd]

7.10pm start for the race tonight, that nearly caught me out.

[John Arne]

Ricciardo and Vettel trying not to laugh at this clown's attempt at the anthem.... :D

https://gyazo.com/48e1fe4372bc72fc65ae324cc31627c6.jpeg

[Jimmy Floyd]

Have a feeling Mad Max is going to blow something up on lap one again. Hope I'm wrong.

[phonics]

Have a feeling Mad Max is going to blow something up on lap one again. Hope I'm wrong.

I don't like Ferrari but I wish he was at there instead of Vettel, I'd love to see his aggressiveness in combination with a competitive car.

[John Arne]

Norris made 4 overtakes on the final 6 or 7 laps, but thanks to the TV director, I don't think we saw any.

[bruhnaldo]

Norris made 4 overtakes on the final 6 or 7 laps, but thanks to the TV director, I don't think we saw any.

I thought it was pit stop related or something considering they didn't show it lol

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've rather gone off this track, there are two runways that are a bit of a joke with DRS enabled. Would be a much better circuit with no DRS.

[Disco]

I've rather gone off this track, there are two runways that are a bit of a joke with DRS enabled. Would be a much better circuit with no DRS.

It desperately needs resurfacing but it's also still settling so they don't want to spend the money until it's stopped moving.

[Foe]

There are a huge number of speed bumps at COTA. It was mental watching them practice, qualify and race. Hadn’t noticed it in previous years but was extremely obvious this year. There’s cracks all over the place on the track too, it’s in terrible nick.

Did anyone notice coming out of the pit lane joining the track there was in essence a speed bump? Wouldn’t be surprised if that was in part at fault for vettels issues.

Watched practice and qualifying at turn 19, then the race at turn 1.

Pink performance was the best part.

[Disco]

The run up to turn one is one of the worst bits because that hill is just the pile of rubbish they made building the rest of the circuit and has settled like crazy as a result.

I love how F1 works sometimes, Red Bull came up with an idea of how Ferrari are getting so much more power out of their engine but rather than make accusations they asked the FIA if they could do it. Cue a technical directive saying it was against the regs and would be deemed illegal. Coincidentally we saw Ferrari well off the pace again this weekend with no sign of their recent straight line advantage. We'll see if it's back in Brazil but it's all a bit :sherlock:

[Jimmy Floyd]

I have developed a hankering to go to a GP, but knowing Silverstone is a boggy mess I think it might have to be one of the foreign ones. Zandvoort would be cool but sounds like a nightmare to get to.

If Catalunya survives I reckon that might be a surprisingly good place to watch one.

[Disco]

France, Austria, Germany all suffer from the same issue of being miles away from anything sensible, less of s problem if you're planning to camp but still a bugger to get to. Spain survived so will be on the calendar next year. I've always fancied Hungary but I have no idea what the logistics would be like.

[bruhnaldo]

Did anyone notice coming out of the pit lane joining the track there was in essence a speed bump? Wouldn’t be surprised if that was in part at fault for vettels issues.

I swear coming out of that first corner I saw his car violently wobble back and forth like how one would if they hit a speed bump sideways, I was surprised not to see a replay.

[Jimmy Floyd]

France, Austria, Germany all suffer from the same issue of being miles away from anything sensible, less of s problem if you're planning to camp but still a bugger to get to. Spain survived so will be on the calendar next year. I've always fancied Hungary but I have no idea what the logistics would be like.

I actually think Monaco would be a doozy if one had the money to throw at it. You won't find me camping at Spa so it might have to be a random fascination I have with driving to Monza and back.

[John Arne]

I'm off to Hanoi next year for my first GP :)

[Jimmy Floyd]

Ah yes with Bellend Corner, the most mickey mouse piece of circuit design I think I've ever seen.

[Pepe]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-jordan-199-f1-roller/

Probably faster than the current Williams, even without the engine.

[John Arne]

Ah yes with Bellend Corner, the most mickey mouse piece of circuit design I think I've ever seen.

Down Shaftsbury avenue, then around the cock au loop.

https://gyazo.com/c33f13ab8bbddff5aef155ac218409fc.jpeg

[Jimmy Floyd]

Nominations for worst corners in F1 history

1. The Singapore Sling (RIP in pieces, ur with the angles now)
2. That stupid thing in the stadium in the current incarnation of Mexico
3. Any of the temporary chicanes they have installed at Barcelona over the years
4. Turn one at Austin - want to make it any wider, lads?
5. Acqua Minerale - yes, classic tracks can have shit corners too.

[bruhnaldo]

They really gave it a roundabout

[Disco]

Nominations for worst corners in F1 history

1. The Singapore Sling (RIP in pieces, ur with the angles now)
2. That stupid thing in the stadium in the current incarnation of Mexico
3. Any of the temporary chicanes they have installed at Barcelona over the years
4. Turn one at Austin - want to make it any wider, lads?
5. Acqua Minerale - yes, classic tracks can have shit corners too.

I vote for the pitlane in Abu Dhabi.


On Vietnam, if they get the donger bit right then that could actually be pretty spectacular. The roundabout is far worse, what a sight the cars will make dribbling through there.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If there are two DRS zones on the parallel straights then it'll surely just be a wife-swapping exercise.

[phonics]

Are those houses on one side of the straight? Imagine living there listening to cars going 250mph a few hundred yards from your house for four days.

[Shindig]

If I ever retire to the Isle of Man, I'm grabbing a place in Kirk Michael for that very reason.

[bruhnaldo]

Are those houses on one side of the straight? Imagine living there listening to cars going 250mph a few hundred yards from your house for four days.

The people in Miami Gardens are going ape shit about this same type of prospect.

I can't necessarily blame them, given the proximity (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hard+Rock+Stadium/@25.9574802,-80.2391909,2718m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88d9af0497b5f3a9:0x5815e 194c60bf9db!8m2!3d25.9579665!4d-80.2388604), but I swear to God if my dream Miami Grand Prix gets ruined I'm going to be so fucking sad.

[phonics]

The people in Miami Gardens are going ape shit about this same type of prospect.

I can't necessarily blame them, given the proximity (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hard+Rock+Stadium/@25.9574802,-80.2391909,2718m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88d9af0497b5f3a9:0x5815e 194c60bf9db!8m2!3d25.9579665!4d-80.2388604), but I swear to God if my dream Miami Grand Prix gets ruined I'm going to be so fucking sad.

Isn't it right next to the football stadium? I'm not sure there argument holds water.

[bruhnaldo]

Isn't it right next to the football stadium? I'm not sure there argument holds water.

Oh the football stadium is right in the heart of a neighborhood that's what I'm saying. If you click the link you can see how close the houses and stuff are.

[John Arne]

Are those houses on one side of the straight? Imagine living there listening to cars going 250mph a few hundred yards from your house for four days.

They listen to Karaoke every fucking night, the F1 cars will be a welcome change, I imagine.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Betting tip: whatever you can find on Alex Albon for the win/podium at this weekend's race, have a little dabble.

[Disco]

Podium maybe.

I assume you're basing that on more than a decent time in FP1.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Nah, I presume that was tyre/conditions assisted, I just think the Red Bull is going to be good around here and weird things happen in dead rubbers at Interlagos.

Win is obviously a stretch but his odds compared to Max are ludicrous. He's been very solid at the last half a dozen races, Dr Marko appears to have made a good driver decision for the first time in about a decade.

[Disco]

By default, he was pretty much the only option left open to them after they binned the rest of the Helmut Youth. I always expect Interlagos to be an engine circuit because of the straight but it really isn't, Max would have won a couple of years ago if he hadn't driven into a Frenchman.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Having just got Netflix, I've been watching some of the 'Drive to Survive' docs this week. A lot of it is pretty basic/contrived for a long term spectator like me (it's aimed at 'new fans' and Americans, as far as I can see) but there are nonetheless some superb behind the scenes moments in it, particularly of Christian Horner seething about various things, Cyril mugging him off, and Gunther Steiner swearing at people. The team bosses are in most cases a lot more interesting than the drivers, though it has probably always been that way.

[Disco]

It's a hell of a list of people when you think about it.

Colin Chapman
Ken Tyrell
Enzo Ferrari
Bernie Ecclestone
Frank Williams
Ron Dennis
Flavio Briatore
Jean Todt
Ross Brawn

[Shindig]

Don't forget Eddie "Can I borrow your Camel decals?" Jordan.

[Calcot]

Once you get past the convoluted Bose advertising, the beyond the grid podcast has some mildly interesting interviews with Toto Wolff etc. that makes them all seem a bit more human.

There’s a lovely one from a year or so ago with Murray Walker too...

[Jimmy Floyd]

No one will ever be a bigger legend than Murray Walker.

[John Arne]

FP2 Bottas almost causes Hamilton to smash into him, then 5 seconds late Viettel almost smashes into him as he dawdles along on the racing line.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's a hell of a list of people when you think about it.

Colin Chapman
Ken Tyrell
Enzo Ferrari
Bernie Ecclestone
Frank Williams
Ron Dennis
Flavio Briatore
Jean Todt
Ross Brawn

Time will be very kind to Bernie I think. When you step back, you could argue he is the greatest genius in all of sporting history.

[John Arne]

Mercedes have boffed this by not boxing HAM right behind Verstappen. Bizarre.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This is the most unnecessary safety car I have seen for a while.

[Disco]

You gain track position but it's going to be worthless, I don't see how it's going to work.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He meffed up the restart as well, he had to go straight off Mergulho and get some metres between him and Max.

Here comes my boy :cool:

[John Arne]

Ferrari :D

[John Arne]

Now they pit HAM with 3 1/2 laps remaining - this race is finishing under the safety car. Jesus.

[Disco]

Oh my.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh god, we've hit the jackpot :D

Nice of Merc to donate a podium to Toro Rosso, keeping the smaller teams alive.

[John Arne]

Lewis, you cunt. Poor Alex. :(

Edit: not exactly Lewis' fault, but still, poor Alex.

[John Arne]

Gasly :)

[Jimmy Floyd]

That was Albon's fault, he was on a dogshit line in and nowhere for Hamilton to go.

Fair fucks to Gasly.

[phonics]

The Gasly Hamilton finish: https://streamable.com/xsmtp

How often do two cars fight for position going over the line?

[Jimmy Floyd]

1971 Italian GP, there were about four of them finishing like that for the win. Don't know if footage exists. But yes, it's pretty rare to still be going for it over the line.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The best last straight finish was of course this one (also at Monza) for 7th and 8th places in the 1993 race:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAWgnYJvW_U

[Shindig]

1971 Italian GP, there were about four of them finishing like that for the win. Don't know if footage exists. But yes, it's pretty rare to still be going for it over the line.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_GVEMo7mVY
Closest finish in F1 history.

[niko_cee]

Beautiful stuff from the red cars.

It's getting to the point where safety cars are a genuine problem. Chaos always ensures once they bowl one out (and then you can spiral into having them almost constantly).

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hamilton got penalised down to 7th. Not sure I buy that, but he's been all over the media telling anyone who will listen that it was his fault so I suppose you can't really blame them.

Sainz third and on the cusp of 6th in the championship, immense year from him.

Meanwhile I see Antonio 'central casting' Giovinazzi managed to burgle 5th in the end which sends our old mate 'RoGro' down to 18th in the championship, how he has kept his drive yet again is a mystery.

[SincereTheRebel]

Vettel really is all over the place

[Shindig]

McLaren on the podium (well, not really) for the first time since .... 2012?

[bruhnaldo]

McLaren back :drool:

[John Arne]

I'm starting to really dislike Leclerc. He's like a spoilt little kid at school, wanting to tell on the other kids.

[Shindig]

Makes you wonder why him and Vettel don't get on.

Quality race, by the way. Verstappen was magic through the first corner all day. He's the only one on the grid I can see taking Hamilton's torch.

[bruhnaldo]

Lando Norris 2021 baby :drool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

That final qualifying session featured Vettel spinning on the start finish straight and Leclerc failing to make the start line in time to do his lap at the end of Q3, another Ferrari tour de force all in all.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Now they seem to have over-fuelled Leclerc's car. Never a dull moment, nor indeed a competent one.

[Shindig]

Just hire some German strategists, you eejits.

[Disco]

They've also been caught cheating on Leclercs fuel level today, what a fitting way to cap off the season.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Thinking all the way back to race 1 in Australia, where they were way slower than in testing, did they just not start the fuel cheating until later? A truly wonderful effort from them all season I reckon.

Given that everyone's been talking about it for a month it would be a splendid effort to actually get caught in this complete dead rubber of a race.

[Giggles]

They've also been caught cheating on Leclercs fuel level today, what a fitting way to cap off the season.

This is The Sun version of Jimmy’s post 20 minutes ago.

[Shindig]

A Ferrari pitstop not going to plan. Who would have guessed?

[Disco]

They've been on the Asti Spumante a bit early by the look of it.

[Giggles]

I’m near sure I seen someone in a tunnel on this earlier but over the past 5 or 6 laps there’s not a sign. Was it a replay from another race (I’m not watching too closely) or is it the pit lane or something?

[John Arne]

I’m near sure I seen someone in a tunnel on this earlier but over the past 5 or 6 laps there’s not a sign. Was it a replay from another race (I’m not watching too closely) or is it the pit lane or something?

Pit lane is a tunnel here.

[Disco]

It's the completely pointless pit exit that goes under the track.

[Giggles]

It's the completely pointless pit exit that goes under the track.

Abu Dhabi, pointless is the name of the game.

[John Arne]

The F1 director must hate Norris. Never shows his overtakes. Kyvat, Norris and Sainz having a right ding-dong and instead we watch a line of cars following Hulkenberg for 3 laps.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think this is the worst circuit on the calendar now that we're shot of Korea. The slow corners are all completely mickey mouse.

[John Arne]

Why aren't Ferrari pitting LeClerc? What are they waiting for?

[Disco]

I think this is the worst circuit on the calendar now that we're shot of Korea. The slow corners are all completely mickey mouse.

It's a good job we have this soulless parade as a finale rather than last weeks race.

[John Arne]

1201172787035066368

[Pepe]

Lol at Vettel finishing fifth. Monster year from Sainz with that sixth place. Good year for Perez too, would have been nice if he finished ahead of Ricciardo.

[Giggles]

1201172787035066368

Did he do that up himself? :face:

[John Arne]

Did he do that up himself? :face:

What do you mean "do it up himself"... do you mean make the video? If so, of course not :D

[Shindig]

I think I hate Lando Norris.