[FOOTBALL] Summer 2016 Transfer Window Thread: Pep vs Jose II

[niko_cee]

Transfer request handed in as I type that.

:face:

[niko_cee]

The team you could make out of unwanted players (be they loan or frees) must be fairly handy. Hart, Wilshere, Sahko, this Martins Indi chap, 'Schweini', Nasri, 75% of Chelsea's registered players, there must be others, Bony's bound to go on loan today. Someone knock up an XI.

[Magic]

Lol that's hilarious GOLDEN BOY Joe Hart is going on fucking loan to Torino. :harold:

[Lewis]

'Schweini' has done an amazing job in presenting himself as the wounded party, when all Mourinho has done is told him that you can't put towels on sunbeds the night before. He's had three months to find another club, but semi-retirement pays too well.

[niko_cee]

Add Mangala to the list.

[Smiffy]

.....

[Angelsaint]

What a fall from grace for Wilshire a choice between Palace and Bournemouth. If he has any sense he will go to Bournemouth but I don't think he does so he will probably go and act like the twat he is under the guidance of Pardew.

Isn't Benfica and Sporting after him. Both are in champions league and both sold their "Wilshire" . Guaranteed first eleven + champions league + getting drunk and smoke as much as he wants without paparazzi taking pictures every 5 seconds must sound really good.

[Manc]

Sakho being told to royally fuck himself must mean Gomez is close to returning.

RIP Mario.

[Davgooner]

Lol that's hilarious GOLDEN BOY Joe Hart is going on fucking loan to Torino. :harold:

Don't think it's too bad a move, though hark at this:


"Suddenly my career has undergone a change and I interpreted it as a sign of destiny,"

Loon.

[SvN]

I know Hart's stock has fallen a bit, but I'm surprised noone better isn't in for him.

[Samadini]

Moussa Sissoko is spending the day waiting at the airport, hoping someone bids for him.

[niko_cee]

That Joe Hart statement looks like it's been through the translator a couple of times.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Torino is a mid table piece of shit club in a piece of shit league. It's like Courtois falling out with Chelsea and going on loan to Guingamp.

[elth]

It's pretty rare that a half decent club gets to the end of August without having a solid first choice goalkeeper.

[Vim]

Torino is a mid table piece of shit club in a piece of shit league. It's like Courtois falling out with Chelsea and going on loan to Guingamp.

We'll see which league will have more clubs in the Champions League semis. My money's on the piece of shit league.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Having Juventus, the world's most tedious superclub, does not make it a good league. In fact it increasingly makes it a pointless one. They should really win the next ten titles, rampant mismanagement aside.

[niko_cee]

Just need a couple of fullbacks/wingbacks now:



Hart

Martins Indi Mangala Sakho

???? ????

Nasri 'Schweini' Wilshere


Bony Balotelli

[Vim]

Having Juventus, the world's most tedious superclub, does not make it a good league. In fact it increasingly makes it a pointless one. They should really win the next ten titles, rampant mismanagement aside.

So is it better to have clubs that spend insane sums of money to not even win the Europa League? Of course within its own borders, the Premier League is the most competitive league in the world, but they fall way short of expectations when it comes to continental football.

[Disco]

Wilshere should just go to whoever has the best physios, he'll barely meet anyone else anyway.

[Disco]

So is it better to have clubs that spend insane sums of money to not even win the Europa League? Of course within its own borders, the Premier League is the most competitive league in the world, but they fall way short of expectations when it comes to continental football.

Depends on what you prioritise, Serie A has one decent team that does pretty well in Europe and steamrolls the league. Fine if you give a shit about Europe but if you want an actual league competition you're going to look elsewhere.

[phonics]

Tony Pulis has only gone and signed a bloody full-back. Mental. I doubt he'll ever play him. RIP Alan Nyom (can't even type his name without doing a car noise)

[Giggles]

All these midfielders to Burnley hopefully means Stephens is staying at Brighton.

Should make a cheeky bid for 'Jack'. Can't really work out what's going on there.

Did Hendrick go there yet?

[phonics]

Wilshere might not end up at Roma as apparently they pulled some shenanigans with us trying to buy Manolas this summer. I'd love to hear some of the behind the scenes stories of what actually goes on.

[bruhnaldo]

We'll see which league will have more clubs in the Champions League semis. My money's on the piece of shit league.

You say this as if any other club than Juventus is truly worth a shit in Serie A, which is exactly the point?

[Jimmy Floyd]

So is it better to have clubs that spend insane sums of money to not even win the Europa League? Of course within its own borders, the Premier League is the most competitive league in the world, but they fall way short of expectations when it comes to continental football.

No one here cares about continental football. They sometimes pretend they do if it suits them (or when their club does particularly well/badly), but deep down nobody gives a stuff. It's all about the league.

[phonics]

770976735709900802

[Mazuuurk]

I bet Mustafi will get injured in this weekends internationals.

[Angelsaint]

Indi to stoke :D

From now betting on stoke conceding goals every game and most likely going down.

[Trancemeister]

Everton in talks with Newcastle over Moussa Sissokho according to Sky.

[Trancemeister]

Marcos Alonso to Chelsea is official.

[Vim]

No one here cares about continental football. They sometimes pretend they do if it suits them (or when their club does particularly well/badly), but deep down nobody gives a stuff. It's all about the league.

How is this not what you're doing right now, but reversed? Claiming not to care about continental football because it suits you within this argument.

I'm almost sure it was you who, on the old board, claimed that cup football is the most important and no-one cares about a team being consistent for 38 matches, as opposed to being good in elimination matches.

[Reg]

Jim's wrong. Old Trafford and Anfield on European nights quickly put that theory to bed.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Citing 'Old Trafford and Anfield on European nights' basically proves my point. West Ham and Southampton in the Europa League... not so much.

[Jimmy Floyd]

How is this not what you're doing right now, but reversed? Claiming not to care about continental football because it suits you within this argument.

I'm almost sure it was you who, on the old board, claimed that cup football is the most important and no-one cares about a team being consistent for 38 matches, as opposed to being good in elimination matches.

I'd like that to be the case, but here I'm just stating reality. Juventus is particularly obsessed with Europe a) because it has underachieved there historically and b) because the domestic league is easy and there are no other competitive teams.

The Champions League viewing figures here are absolutely puny compared to Premier League games involving the same teams on the same channels.

[Lewis]

The Chelsea fan man on the BBC DEADLINE DAY ticker claims that 'Chelsea need bodies in defence', but haven't they got about forty defenders out on loan who could do a reasonable cover job without throwing their delicate 'FFP' balancing act down the toilet?

[Lewis]

Still, David Luiz is a laugh, and, after welcoming the most expensive player in history, having the bloke responsible for the worst individual performance in World Cup history is another coup for the Premiership.

[Pen]

Well they bought Marcos Alonso in from Fiorentina (He had a successful spell in England some years back with Bolton and Sunderland before joining Fiorentina).

Aren't all of Chelsea's defensive loanees pretty shit anyway? With the possible exception of Baba Rahman.

[randomlegend]

The David Luiz thing looks like it's actually happening. Lunacy.

[Pen]

Midtable clubs and big club outcasts are making this deadline day surprisingly interesting (well as far as interesting fits transfer dealings).

[Giggles]

That Cuadrado deal is the first 3 year loan I ever recall.

Tottenham have signed some French youngster too.

[Manc]

£32m for a glorified mascot. Losing faith.

[Ian]

That deal for Cuadrado is a bit of a laugh, isn't it?

[Yevrah]

I didn't follow football much last year (so may well be coming from a point of ignorance), but have the Prem Boys basically spunked £1bn on shite?

[mugbull]

The Spurs squad has like 20 senior players, lol. No clue why we haven't signed depth. Good luck competing in the Champions League. I predict we finish 9th and then go out in the 1st knockout round. As is custom.

[randomlegend]

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-news/2016/08/david-luiz-move-agreed.html

Wow,

[Amigo]

What's up with the Luiz move? Is he not first-choice at PSG?

[Giggles]

Is this just returning the money laundering favour or something?

[bruhnaldo]

Cannot convince me this isn't some FFP bollocks.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

A three year loan deal :harold:

[bruhnaldo]

Holy shit I thought you guys were joking re: 3 year loan.

Chelsea are fucking mental.

[Yevrah]

I'm increasingly of the opinion that loan deals should be banned.

Clubs had their chances to use them properly and in the spirit with which they're intended and now they're mostly just taking the piss with them.

[Davgooner]

Sturridge's agent is having a proper good go at this by all accounts.

[Lewis]

A proper trainer-coach would have turned Juan Cuadrado into a dodgy full-back if they really needed one.

[Reg]

Citing 'Old Trafford and Anfield on European nights' basically proves my point. West Ham and Southampton in the Europa League... not so much.
If you mean we don't care about the Europa League, you're right. But the Champions League/European Cup has always been a big deal.

[Shindig]

I'm fine with loans but long-term ones are just absurd. As is Moussa Sissoko. All this stemming from some agent tattle at the end of last season and precisely no bids have been tabled until now. Complete with the begging on twitter to try and land a United or Madrid move. Neither Spurs or Everton really need him.

£30m. Fucking hell.

I laughed at that Opta stat the beeb mentioned as well. 18 dribbles in Euro 2016. How many of them came in the final?

[Boydy]

Have Liverpool signed a left back yet?

[Giggles]

Even though £30m is the new £10m, it's still too much for Sissoko.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Slimani :drool:

[phonics]

Have Liverpool signed a left back yet?

Nah, Chelsea did though. 25 million quid and every review has been a bit '...erm he's alright'

[Max Power]

Slimani finally done. £25m rising to £30m

We're gonna win the league

[Jimmy Floyd]

I have no idea what's going on now. Pretty sure football plays little to no part in considerations, certainly at Chelsea.

Emenalo lives.

[Waffdon]

Nah, Chelsea did though. 25 million quid and every review has been a bit '...erm he's alright'

He'll be sold next year to continue their recent cycle of trying to shift Azpilicueta out the team. See Filipe Luis (the best in the world) and Baba Rahman.

[Pen]

I have it in my head that Azpilicueta would make a great defensive midfielder, not that he's bad at full back but I do think he's somewhat lacking going forward.

[Shindig]

Spurs all in for Sissoko as well. Where's half-way between Everton and London so we can settle this?

[Weaver]

Sky are allowing us (kind of them) to see the final hour of the Deadline on their website FOR FREE, here: http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10557052/watch-deadline-day-sky-sports-news-hq-live-stream

Spurs and Sissoko :drool:

[GS]

Liverpool have managed to get rid of Balotelli. Granted there was no fee, but there was also - apparently - no pay off.

What a waste of fucking space he is.

[mugbull]

God fucking damnit.

[niko_cee]

Paul Merson is just repeatedly saying big and looking confused on SSN.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Been a while since I watched SSN.

Hayley :drool:

[Shindig]

12 in plus £30m. :D This stupid country.

[Max Power]

Newcastle have had a cracking window tbf. Watch them finish 7th.

[Shindig]

Nah, we've still got Tiote.

[phonics]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrODAO7W8AA95qM.jpg:large

Poor Scouse

[Spoonsky]

Jack Wilshere on loan to Bournemouth. Ok?

[Spoonsky]

How is it possible that Liverpool have failed to find a better left back than Alberto Moreno?

[mugbull]

You would never have thought Wilshere to Bournemouth 5 years ago, it's needed a spectacular decline of a player and a stunning rise of a football club for the stars to align properly. And Eddie Howe.

[Smiffy]

.....

[Manc]

Pipe down you mug. Once Matip turns up, Gomez returns and the German gets in goal they'll be reet. Alternating victories and defeats if we're lucky. :drool:

[Lofty]

Apparently Everton sent a private jet for Sissoko but once he got wind of Spurs he just ignored their calls. Don't know how anyone rates him, he's so lazy Ron Atkinson would have an aneurysm.

[niko_cee]

In this new age of MEGA MONEY DEALS a surprising number of teams seem to be breaking even by selling all their shitey youth/reserve players for insane fees.

Sod your percentage of turnover and your amortisation, the net spend lives!

[Jimmy Floyd]

Balotelli to Nice?

Mid-table in average European leagues is the new MLS.

[phonics]

Chelsea have so many players out on loan they could play a different one in every game of the season.

[Disco]

It's bizarre because it's not like they ever bring them through into the first team, even when they're good enough.

Is it just (somehow) money laundering?

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's probably either one of, or a mixture of:

- Getting round FFP by farming young players for profit, or even just revenue (which increases your churn of 'football income')
- Doing favours for agents
- Money laundering

[Kikó]

It's money laundering. He's moving his assets frozen in Russia to other dodgy people and back again.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That applies to his entire ownership of Chelsea though, not just the young players farrago.

[John Arne]

According to Xhaka, Wenger has only spoken to him 2 or 3 times since he arrived. I find that incredible.... how is he preparing his teams for matching tactically, if he isn't talking to his players?



“He [Wenger] is not a coach who speaks daily,” said Granit Xhaka. “Wenger talked to me two or three times. He told me he was very impressed with how I train, how I behave in my character as I was disciplined.”

[bruhnaldo]

Surely he means personally.

[John Arne]

Still, you would have thought there would be some 1-on-1 coaching and tactical discussions with him.

[Spikey M]

Even though £30m is the new £10m, it's still too much for Sissoko.

:rosebud:

[Giggles]

:rosebud:

They needed a new Adebayor.

[Spikey M]

£30m for a flatpack Yaya Toure. The world has gone mad.

[Pen]

Transfer fees mean fuck all anymore for Premier league clubs, but I was surprised to learn that La Liga and Bundesliga spent roughly the same as all the Premier league teams combined as half the teams in La Liga have about twenty quid between them.

[ScousePig]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrODAO7W8AA95qM.jpg:large

Poor Scouse

Nobody really knows what's happening. The general belief is that we've signed him on a pre contract for January and were thinking about buying him out of his current deal, but Rubin Kazan were asking much more than we were willing to pay (7-8m, not sure if Euros or pounds).

[Manc]

Transfer fees mean fuck all anymore for Premier league clubs, but I was surprised to learn that La Liga and Bundesliga spent roughly the same as all the Premier league teams combined as half the teams in La Liga have about twenty quid between them.

Wut?

[Pen]

It was in reply to the Sissoko discussion above. I agree that the fees are mental, but the money is fast becoming irrelevant as 30 million isn't that much anymore (which again is bat shit crazy). However, even with this newly found mega money that Premier league clubs now all get I was surprised that the next two leagues (Spain and Germany) spend the same amount combined as the Premier league seeing as there are teams there with very little money especially in Spain.

edit: it might be slightly poorly worded, but even reading back I think it's not that hard to grasp from the original post.

[Manc]

I'm with you, babez. x

[Adamski]

It was in reply to the Sissoko discussion above. I agree that the fees are mental, but the money is fast becoming irrelevant as 30 million isn't that much anymore (which again is bat shit crazy). However, even with this newly found mega money that Premier league clubs now all get I was surprised that the next two leagues (Spain and Germany) spend the same amount combined as the Premier league seeing as there are teams there with very little money especially in Spain.

edit: it might be slightly poorly worded, but even reading back I think it's not that hard to grasp from the original post.

Spain and Germany spent over a billion between them?

[Jimmy Floyd]

The thing to think about in terms of how the market is/isn't inflated is what £30 million gets you in other walks of life. Would you rather have this house (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/yours-30-million-super-luxury-5817215), or the registration of Moussa Sissoko to play football for your team?

[Mazuuurk]

Whichever has better resale value.

[niko_cee]

The Isle of Man.

:sick:

[Pen]

Spain and Germany spent over a billion between them?

Yeah. If I remember it correctly La Liga teams spent roughly 750 million euros and Bundesliga teams 550 million euros. Premier league teams spent 1,35b€ so it's roughly the same.

[Gray Fox]

The Bundesliga spend will go up soon when their big TV deal kicks in too.

[Jimmy Floyd]

With all due respect, who outside Germany actually watches the Bundesliga? And when I say watch it, I don't mean Bayern v Dortmund. There are millions in Asia who wank themselves dry over Burnley v Stoke.

[Manc]

The highlight show is brilliant.

[bruhnaldo]

I'll have you know I watched Dortmund v Mainz last weekend!!!!......











...for about 10 minutes until I realized it was just a replay and not the live version.

[Pen]

If other leagues than the Premier league had been smart enough from the start and heavily invested on the foreign market as well, they might be just as big in Asia as the Premier league. That said, The Premier league has the colonial history (not that it's necessarily a positive thing, but in this case it means there's maybe more to relate to than say with Bundesliga) and language going for it. It's a bit like getting new things to the market. The product doesn't have to be a superior one, but if you beat everyone else to the market most of your customers will stay with you even if there's a similar new product that might even be slightly better.

edit: @jim

[bruhnaldo]

Pen

i think what you're alluding to with colonial ties and what have you makes a lot of sense. I'd imagine La Liga is the most watched league in Latin American, considering just about every Latin person I know is either a Barca, Real, or recently, Atleti supporter.

[John Arne]

With all due respect, who outside Germany actually watches the Bundesliga? And when I say watch it, I don't mean Bayern v Dortmund. There are millions in Asia who wank themselves dry over Burnley v Stoke.

I'm not sure that's true anymore. Firstly, Bundesliga is generally free-to-air, whilst Premier League is pay TV (at least in Thailand and VN), and secondly I'm not sure even Asian fans bother watching Watford v Palace nowadays.

[Lewis]

If other leagues than the Premier league had been smart enough from the start and heavily invested on the foreign market as well, they might be just as big in Asia as the Premier league. That said, The Premier league has the colonial history (not that it's necessarily a positive thing, but in this case it means there's maybe more to relate to than say with Bundesliga) and language going for it. It's a bit like getting new things to the market. The product doesn't have to be a superior one, but if you beat everyone else to the market most of your customers will stay with you even if there's a similar new product that might even be slightly better.

edit: @jim

It is 'superior' from a casual mass market perspective, because it's faster and more competitive than other leagues.

[Pen]

The competitiveness at the very top I', more than happy to concede, but the style of play which in the case of the Premier league is more aggressive and fast paced I think comes back to the point about familiarity as 'quality' (if we pretend it's somehow measurable) is just as good in La Liga or Bundesliga. I prefer the Premier League over the others too btw.

And going back to the competitiveness argument. Had La Liga gone the same way since the nineties as the Premier league I don't think we'd be in the current situation now. It was very even and competitive 'til Rijkaards Barcelona or so.

[Spikey M]

As long as we can agree that Serie A is shit I'm happy.

[mugbull]

I'm really looking forward to a decade of domination by RasenBallsport Leipzig personally

[Kikó]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/2343020/manchester-united-everton-memphis-depay-morgan-schneiderlin/

Top manager.

[Kikó]

He's barely looked like a footballer here which is a shame. Agree with you that he looked the part but he doesn't seem capable.

[niko_cee]

You have to persevere with some of these big money Southampton signings.

He genuinely can't be any worse than some of the spastics who regularly get a game for United.

[Kikó]

I would tend to agree but there are reports he's been laughably bad in training and if he's behind fellimania then there's probably some truth.

[niko_cee]

He wouldn't be the first good player to mysteriously down tools on Mourinho's watch.

[John]

It's probably worth sticking anyone Mourinho wants rid of into a holding pen and just waiting for him to leave. Binning De Bruyne after a fortnight should see him forever banned from running the transfers wherever he is.

[niko_cee]

*loan to Everton*

[Raoul Duke]

I'm sure Mendes has some chancers he can chuck our way for eleventy billion

[Lewis]

Even 'LvG' got bored of Morgan Schneiderlin, and he ought to have been right up his bollocks defensive street.

[Reg]

I never thought Schneiderlin was bad when he played. Certainly wouldn't do any worse than Fellaini as a shut-the-game-down late sub.

[Kikó]

Just get Obi Mikel in and let it be.

[SvN]

Mourinho can't be blamed for this one, Schneiderlin has been dogshit for us since day one.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

So why does Fellaini still get game time?

[Lewis]

Probably mate yeah.

[Jeet]

I'm shocked that Morgan has dropped down the pecking order, he always looked like such a quality player when at Southampton.

How's that decision turning down Arsenal doing for ya Morgan? Ask Henrikh too if he is sitting next to you on the bench.

[Lewis]

You're not my fucking mate.

If I was you wouldn't be such a state.

[Andy]

Can't get my head round Schneiderlin not doing well at United. Maybe he isn't good when the pressure is on at a big club or maybe he's the sort of player who needs to play every week with a settled team to get the best from him.

He was comfortably our best footballer for three seasons. Only one who came close was Alderwireld.

Will be fuming if he goes to Everton or WBA and we don't make an offer.

Literally can't be worse than Fellaini.

[Spikey M]

I think it's the Pochettino factor. He seems to have a talent for taking players (that fit his system) and making them play above themselves. Danny Rose was a joke a couple of seasons back, now he's one of the best full backs about. Even Kyle bloody Walker looks decent.

Don't think that'd stay the case if Chelsea or United brought them in.

[Spikey M]

Also, what a signing Kante was. Not even because he's been particularly great for Chelsea, but because it has completely ruined Leicester. Huth and Morgan are being completely shown up without him infront of them mopping up.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If you look at teams top of the league in 2016 there is a bit of a common denominator and I don't mean Robert Huth has pissed in the shower at both clubs.

[Baz]

Man City should get Schweinsteiger.

Last European club my arse.

[Jeet]

Draxler certain to leave in Jan, left out of the squad.

I don't see Arsenal buying him, Wenger will be like he spent £25-£30mill on Sanchez and Ozil's new deal already and they are like new signing etc etc - all this crap he comes out with.

I fancy Bayern will go for him

[Giggles]

The two Dundalk lads are official at Preston. Anyone here know much about the club and how they're fixed out wide and at centre half?

[Adamski]

Think they're good enough for that step up?

[Giggles]

Think they're good enough for that step up?

Hard to know. They both looked decent in the European games this year (that's what got them the international call-ups) but it's still a small sample size. Depends on what the club have already really. Like Towell was the standout player the previous season and is better than Horgan, he just chose completely the wrong club to go to in Brighton. If Preston are weak in the areas then at least they'll get a look and take it from there.

[randomlegend]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/12/13/andre-villas-boas-makes-stunning-60m-transfer-bid-bring-chelseas/

:cab:

[Lewis]

Didn't 'AVB' leave Russia to be with his family? What a wanker.

[Jimmy Floyd]

All the low rent functioning alcoholics in Russia didn't allow him to stand out as much as he wanted.

[Lewis]

The Mail sez that Carlos Tevez will earn £615000 a week in China. If that is even remotely true then 1) lol; 2) the Russian and Turkish leagues will never get a half-decent import ever again; and 3) it could be a game-changer as far as declining big names are concerned. When Graziano Pelle was offered half that it basically looked like that was their ceiling, and that he was the best person they could convince to take it; but, if they are willing to spend literally anything, why would somebody like Wayne Rooney not give it a punt? At the very least it would be worth a nine month detour on your way to wheezing around the StubHub Center.

[Reg]

You could imagine Rooney getting twice what Tevez can get away with, if he's as big a brand as it seems. (Maybe Tevez is huge in South America though?)

I don't know what to make of the Oscar case. In a way it seems as good idea to do it now, at 25, as at the end of a career. Go there for a couple years, earn an obscene amount, then come back in your prime and focus on actual football again.

At what point do wages become so big that we regularly hear of footballers donating at least a portion of them? Beckham at PSG (100%) is the only case I know of.

[Lewis]

I think you could survive a season, as people do season-long injuries; but three years? Between the crap coaching/facilities/teammates/opposition, your development would surely grind to a dead halt (and probably even regress), meaning twenty-eight year old Oscar will likely worse than his current self. Then, if he does come back in 2019/20, nobody decent and/or wealthy will want him, so then why take an eighty per cent pay cut to play for Bordeaux?

[Giggles]

Play one season in China. Hooves up, forget football. Job done.

[niko_cee]

The Oscar transfer (and the whole China business in general) stinks of high level corruption. No game is going to be changed by a player of his level going there, what are all those other South American wasters up to out there? And as for the likes of Rooney, maybe it sounds a bit simple, but doesn't there come a point when enough is enough? I can see the attraction of living in LA after a life led in Bootle (although they come back), less so Chinese Industrial Centre 4817, even if they do give you your own city to live in. It's just a rich vein for the career parasites to exploit.

[John Arne]

The Oscar transfer (and the whole China business in general) stinks of high level corruption. No game is going to be changed by a player of his level going there, what are all those other South American wasters up to out there? And as for the likes of Rooney, maybe it sounds a bit simple, but doesn't there come a point when enough is enough? I can see the attraction of living in LA after a life led in Bootle (although they come back), less so Chinese Industrial Centre 4817, even if they do give you your own city to live in. It's just a rich vein for the career parasites to exploit.

Whilst I understand the larger point you are making... have you been to Shanghai? A "Chinese Industrial Centre 4817", it is not. A footballing hotbed, I will give you - but there won't be any discernible lesser quality of life for someone like Oscar going to live in Shanghai.

http://cdn.ek.aero/english/images/Shanghai_tcm233-2364302.jpg

[Raoul Duke]

For the government, sporting achievement is a way to get recognition as a proper country. To get kids interested in the sport they need some decent players/coaches. The money is bonkers but that's because they build 90% of the things on Earth out there and it's corrupt as balls.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Oscar transfer (and the whole China business in general) stinks of high level corruption. No game is going to be changed by a player of his level going there, what are all those other South American wasters up to out there? And as for the likes of Rooney, maybe it sounds a bit simple, but doesn't there come a point when enough is enough? I can see the attraction of living in LA after a life led in Bootle (although they come back), less so Chinese Industrial Centre 4817, even if they do give you your own city to live in. It's just a rich vein for the career parasites to exploit.

You've got it with the career parasites, football is mainly about money laundering/leeching now and as far as I can see Chelsea, PSG and China are leading the way.

[Jimmy Floyd]

For the government, sporting achievement is a way to get recognition as a proper country. To get kids interested in the sport they need some decent players/coaches. The money is bonkers but that's because they build 90% of the things on Earth out there and it's corrupt as balls.

China have never been good at any team sport and they will never be good at football. It involves too much spontaneity and creativity for their culture.

[John]

One of the Football Weekly bods mentioned that China have put football on the national curriculum so playing it is now mandatory for at least a few years. Forcing everyone to do something under threat of punishment seems like a very Chinese way to improve the talent pool, but it'll definitely work to some degree.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You can teach them a skill that way, but football is about pushing the boundaries and forcing the unexpected. Have you ever seen a national-level east Asian player who survives on more than a work ethic and a textbook positional skillset? Son Heung-Min, perhaps, Keisuke Honda, but there haven't been many, and those two countries are better than China at it anyway.

Sub-Saharan Africa is basically the opposite.

[John Arne]

I think one of the aims is to just increase the interest in football in general - if you are playing football at school and enjoying it, then you at more likely to play with your mates and play for the fun of it. I think one of the biggest problems that faces China is the fact that the cities are so densely populated - the availability of places to play is almost zero. Even here in Saigon, I reckon there are probably 60 artificial pitches (and 2 or 3 grass pitches), which for a city with a population of some 9 million is just stupid.
Perhaps they are relying on the country-bumpkins for the future.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The other problem a country like China has is that it's so big that the population 'advantage' is neutered by the fact that it's impossible to consolidate the best talent. In Belgium, say, they know exactly what they're working with.

[John Arne]

Indeed. That also leads to all the "better" coaches heading to the bigger population centres, leaving the smaller towns relying on geography teachers.

[Pepe]

You can teach them a skill that way, but football is about pushing the boundaries and forcing the unexpected. Have you ever seen a national-level east Asian player who survives on more than a work ethic and a textbook positional skillset? Son Heung-Min, perhaps, Keisuke Honda, but there haven't been many, and those two countries are better than China at it anyway.

Sub-Saharan Africa is basically the opposite.

Sounds like a Mourinho wet dream.

[Disco]

Anything where you can lock people in a gulag and thrash them until they've learnt it the Chinese are great at, team sports not so much.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Indeed. That also leads to all the "better" coaches heading to the bigger population centres, leaving the smaller towns relying on geography teachers.

The only example I can think of where a huge country has done well at football is Brazil and even there, they've probably declined in the years since they expanded beyond the traditional two centres of Sao Paulo and Rio - it gets awfully complicated with state level politics and all sorts of things.

Argentina runs on one city alone, Uruguay too.

[randomlegend]

You can teach them a skill that way, but football is about pushing the boundaries and forcing the unexpected. Have you ever seen a national-level east Asian player who survives on more than a work ethic and a textbook positional skillset? Son Heung-Min, perhaps, Keisuke Honda, but there haven't been many, and those two countries are better than China at it anyway.

Sub-Saharan Africa is basically the opposite.

The Chinese have the best, most creative badminton players.

Yeah yeah lolbadminton.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not a team sport. This is probably all linked to how/why they reverse engineer technology as well. I find it fascinating.

Singapore I think has the best exam results in the world, these are outcome-driven societies. But you can't build a football team purely based on the idea you want to win matches in the same way you can coach a badminton player.

[randomlegend]

Not a team sport. This is probably all linked to how/why they reverse engineer technology as well. I find it fascinating.

Singapore I think has the best exam results in the world, these are outcome-driven societies. But you can't build a football team purely based on the idea you want to win matches in the same way you can coach a badminton player.

I don't understand the logic behind 'they can be creative in individual sports but not team ones'.

Also South Korea are dominant in certain team-based competitive video games, whilst China are very competitive in others.

Winning at them relies on precisely the kind of stuff you're saying they are incapable of, regardless of them not being 'sports' or your views on competitive gaming.

[mugbull]

I'm more interested in India's situation. You can talk about how they prioritize cricket over anything else, but they have academies (at least in the old Portuguese city-states), enough of a crowd, and a yuuuge population. Yet they're a few tiers below even China in their player production. They jizzed themselves when they finally exported a player to a mid-level Norwegian team - a goalkeeper - and he's played once in 2 years. That's as far as they've gotten.

[mugbull]

I don't understand the logic behind 'they can be creative in individual sports but not team ones'.

Also South Korea are dominant in certain team-based competitive video games, whilst China are very competitive in others.

Winning at them relies on precisely the kind of stuff you're saying they are incapable of, regardless of them not being 'sports' or your views on competitive gaming.

Video games (like what, League and Dota?) don't require any sort of teamwork at all until you reach the very highest levels, at which point the coach tells them all what to do and they probably never talk to each other anyway.

Of course the individual/team divide makes sense.

[randomlegend]

Video games (like what, League and Dota?) don't require any sort of teamwork at all until you reach the very highest levels, at which point the coach tells them all what to do and they probably never talk to each other anyway.


Literally everything in this quote is completely wrong.

They require teamwork at every level - a team of players who are experienced playing together will beat a team of players significantly better than them who have never played before at every level of play.

Teams with players with language barriers NEVER do well due to the struggles in communication, and if you've ever listened to voice comms for league or dota they are constant and extremely important

[Adamski]

Video games :D Fuck off.

[randomlegend]

Why?

[Dark Soldier]

There;s a fuck ton of money in ya Starcrafts in Korea. Its pretty much the national 'sport'. Not that its a sport but the skill level is immense.

[phonics]

There's actually relatively no money in it these days sadly. Shutting down left and right. All about League of Legends and DotA these days :moop:

[randomlegend]

League of legends is bigger than StarCraft in Korea now.

The player base stats are pretty absurd in the major regions.

[Disco]

There;s a fuck ton of money in ya Starcrafts in Korea. Its pretty much the national 'sport'. Not that its a sport but the skill level is immense.

Not so much recently, the SC2 pro-league announced fairly recently that it's coming to an end. All about the MOBA's now.

[Dark Soldier]

Ah damn, last I saw was a documentary on the pro Starcraft scene there. Seemed to be buzzing but was a few years back.

Shame as DotA and LOL are both utter, utter shit.

[Disco]

Ah damn, last I saw was a documentary on the pro Starcraft scene there. Seemed to be buzzing but was a few years back.

Shame as DotA and LOL are both utter, utter shit.

It's been on the slide for a a little while but you're right, it was pretty huge for quite a long time.

[phonics]

DS. Are you talking about 'State of Play?' That was a good one.

Remember StarNation? Did that EVER come out?

edit: Hahaha no it didn't. Christ, fans gave them like 400 thousand dollars and they never even made the documentary :D

[Dark Soldier]

Yar that's the one phonics.

[randomlegend]

The smash Bros is a really good esports documentary.

[phonics]

Yeah The Smash Bros is definitely the best gamer thing I've seen since King of Kong. Single handedly revived the game as well.

[randomlegend]

But anyway, back to transfers, apparently Utd are buying some centre back called Lindelof for 30 million quids.

[Adamski]

Why?

You're saying Asian people can work well in teams sitting on their arse playing video games so they should be able to get themselves to an elite level at a professional team sport, that's why not.

[Vim]

He'll probably look Lost in the Premier League.

[Lewis]

I would love to have a look at the official Chinese government list of priorities if 'become good at football' is pressing enough to pay Carlos Tevez a mirrion dorrars a week.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Koreans being good at video games is a great way of proving my point - video games require a singular focus on one thing (the screen), with no requirement to take in what is going on around you or adapt to a unique or unpredictable set of conditions.

Asians are also ridiculously good at other single-focus disciplines like the violin, chess, and so on.

I'm not saying it's impossible for them to form a good football team, but their culture leads them away from the things that make Europeans good at doing so.

[randomlegend]

Koreans being good at video games is a great way of proving my point - video games require a singular focus on one thing (the screen), with no requirement to take in what is going on around you or adapt to a unique or unpredictable set of conditions.

That's really not the kind of video games we're talking about.

This isn't something like OSU where its just repetitive single focused grinding.

These are team games played against other people and are just as varied and unpredictable as football, if not more so.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What kind of video games are we talking about?

You can have team chess as well, and team wanking.

[Disco]

They do rely very much on learning and optimising their actions, 'creativity' is mostly limited to choosing which pre-determined strategy to use in any given situation.

[Adamski]

That's really not the kind of video games we're talking about.

This isn't something like OSU where its just repetitive single focused grinding.

These are team games played against other people and are just as varied and unpredictable as football, if not more so.

Except it's not because it's a computer game with a finite number of scenarios.

[-james-]

Except it's not because it's a computer game with a finite number of scenarios.

They're not really. I think there's been something like 300 million dota games played and no two with identical hero line-ups. They are incredibly complex as games.

[Giggles]

They're really not.

We're fucked then.

[mugbull]

Literally everything in this quote is completely wrong.

They require teamwork at every level - a team of players who are experienced playing together will beat a team of players significantly better than them who have never played before at every level of play.

Teams with players with language barriers NEVER do well due to the struggles in communication, and if you've ever listened to voice comms for league or dota they are constant and extremely important

If you're a solo queue God (which these guys obviously are), you work your way up to Diamond I on individual skills and if you're a good sport you type in chat to organize teamfights and baron/dragon rushes. That's the extent of your teamplay. You can do ranked 5's but that's not how these guys hone their skills. Clearly it's an individual sport you play at home alone for several thousand hours and then if you're good you become part of a team. Football you're on a team from day one and it's all about the team.

By never talk to each other I mean outside of game environments, so you don't need any social skills. If you're a complete weirdo playing football you'll get hounded out of the sport fairly early.

[Adamski]

They're not really. I think there's been something like 300 million dota games played and no two with identical hero line-ups. They are incredibly complex as games.

More complex than real life permutations that can happen on a football field? Come on.

[Disco]

They're both just a set of arbitrary rules, I'm not sure how you can accept that one has many outcomes but the other cannot.

[mugbull]

More complex than real life permutations that can happen on a football field? Come on.

Ok, but they're both orders of magnitude more complex than what we could ever explore in our lifetimes, so it's a moot point.

[Boydy]

Came in here looking for some juicy transfer gossip and I just got this shit.

[randomlegend]

They do rely very much on learning and optimising their actions, 'creativity' is mostly limited to choosing which pre-determined strategy to use in any given situation.

StarCraft is more like that, Mobas aren't.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Came in here looking for some juicy transfer gossip and I just got this shit.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-transfer-news-live-12345336

This quite superbly designed page should have you covered.

[randomlegend]

More complex than real life permutations that can happen on a football field? Come on.

You're interacting with what the other team/player is doing, not a predefined series of game events.

It's limited only in the same way that there is a limit to the number of ways a human can physically move themselves on a football pitch.

[Adamski]

I can't believe this is even a debate :D.

Come back to me when you can't play Dota cause it's raining in your living room. Jesus Christ.

[randomlegend]

If you're a solo queue God (which these guys obviously are), you work your way up to Diamond I on individual skills and if you're a good sport you type in chat to organize teamfights and baron/dragon rushes. That's the extent of your teamplay. You can do ranked 5's but that's not how these guys hone their skills. Clearly it's an individual sport you play at home alone for several thousand hours and then if you're good you become part of a team. Football you're on a team from day one and it's all about the team.

By never talk to each other I mean outside of game environments, so you don't need any social skills. If you're a complete weirdo playing football you'll get hounded out of the sport fairly early.

Yes, but 5 diamond 1 players who've never played before will lose to 5 diamond 3 players who are an experienced team.

Solo queue is a convenient practice environment, not an ideal one.

Most professional teams scrim as much as they play solo queue anyway, and live together in houses.

[mugbull]

I can't believe this is even a debate :D.

Come back to me when you can't play Dota cause it's raining in your living room. Jesus Christ.

??

Dumbass

[Boydy]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-transfer-news-live-12345336

This quite superbly designed page should have you covered.

I mean, I wasn't really but my eyes hurt now anyway so thanks for that.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I genuinely can't believe the MEN do an all-day live blog on Manchester United transfers when the transfer window isn't even open. They probably pay some kid about £4 an hour to do it as well.

[Lewis]

I always get the feeling that the MEN favours United (at least from a news perspective), which must baffle the people of Manchester, who I'm led to believe are almost all City fans.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Regional papers on football are almost as lol as local papers on every other subject. The amount of West Ham gubbins that finds its way into the back of the Evening Standard is incredible. Poor old Palace hardly get a look in.

[John]

There's a belting Facebook page that collates all the best lol local news stuff and it's probably the funniest thing on there. 'Angry People in Local Newspapers'.

[phonics]

I can't believe this is even a debate :D.

Come back to me when you can't play Dota cause it's raining in your living room. Jesus Christ.

Your internet connection is bad so it takes an extra 0.25 seconds to register your clicks. The reaction time between a top football player and an average one is about 0.1 seconds. Done.

[Jeet]

Draxler has agreed to move to P$G instead of Arsenal.......

[Manc]

........

[Danny]

I, for one, am shocked

[Raoul Duke]

Wining the league, living in Paris and getting paid shitloads instead of playing for 4th and earning half as much. Hang on...

[Jimmy Floyd]

You had me until 'living in Paris'. A little known fact is that it's a shithole.

[Raoul Duke]

Compared to whatever German backwater he's in...

[Lewis]

Twitter sez that West Brom have opened the Morgan Schneiderlin bidding at eighteen million. The poor bastard.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

What is Pulis going to do with him exactly?

[Lewis]

What a defence United will have if they sign this Victor Lindelof by the way. I've never seen him play, but Phil Jones at right-back was always amazing, and Antonio Valencia could become even more world class at left-back, making right-footed wingers seethe themselves to death. Further, could Daley Blind replace Michael Carrick?

[Jimmy Floyd]

If you just want them to defend, wrong footed full backs are underrated, especially in this era of wanky cutting inside.

They are tragic going forward though.

[Lewis]

'The Bosingwa Role'.

[Gray Fox]

You mean to say there's a United player for sale and Everton aren't circling? I don't buy it.

[Ian]

'The Bosingwa Role'.

That sounds like a thriller based on the adventures of Jorge Mendes.

[Kikó]

Lindelof is pretty assured and seems like he could be a player. I wouldn't say he's€40m though.

[Boydy]

If you just want them to defend, wrong footed full backs are underrated, especially in this era of wanky cutting inside.

They are tragic going forward though.
Milner's doing alright.

[Mazuuurk]

Lindelof is pretty assured and seems like he could be a player. I wouldn't say he's€40m though.

I think this is insane. He's a bit of a talent. But he's 22, he's "only" played 11 times for Sweden, and he's never really been amazing or anything, just pretty standard to me. Though I always find it a bit hard to judge Defender talent, it's not always obvious that they are good (only when they are bad). So yeah, 40 million seems a bit insane. I guess it's always a bit inflated when it's mid-season, but still.

Kompany and Cannavaro are two of the few defenders I've ever seen and though "damn, son".

[Jimmy Floyd]

22 for a defender is like 18 for a forward.

And it's inflated because United have unlimited cash and Benfica presumably don't need to sell.

[phonics]

The story of how Benfica managed to screw the team they bought him off out of a payday is quite impressive.

[Mazuuurk]

I understand those things, Jim. Let me put it this way: I think his actual value might've been like 10-15 million quid or so. Maybe 17. Inflating that to 20 or maybe even 25 because it's mid-season, united and Benfica might have been understandable. But 35 million just seems a bit excessive.

Then again, it did so with Martial as well, so.

[Bernanke]

The story of how Benfica managed to screw the team they bought him off out of a payday is quite impressive.

It's still an issue with FIFA, and the decision they come to will have huge implications for "percentage of next sale"-type clauses.

If I understand the specific case correctly, Benfica are basically claiming that since they signed a new contract with Lindelöf after the transfer, the previous agreement with Västerås is voided and they now have no obligations towards them aside from solidarity fee? Seems ridiculous to me, the contractual situation between buyer <-> player should have no impact on the situation between buyer <-> seller.

[Raoul Duke]

Remember that the '£38m' or whatever will be the absolute high-point that the figure could rise to. It'll probably be more like £20m + a bunch of incentives, like Martial's deal.

[randomlegend]

It's actually structured as £1 up front and £37,999,999 when he wins the Ballon D'or.

[Adamski]

The story of how Benfica managed to screw the team they bought him off out of a payday is quite impressive.

So glad you shared it.
Bernanke thanks :D

[randomlegend]

It's still an issue with FIFA, and the decision they come to will have huge implications for "percentage of next sale"-type clauses.

If I understand the specific case correctly, Benfica are basically claiming that since they signed a new contract with Lindelöf after the transfer, the previous agreement with Västerås is voided and they now have no obligations towards them aside from solidarity fee? Seems ridiculous to me, the contractual situation between buyer <-> player should have no impact on the situation between buyer <-> seller.

I've just read they are saying that they let his contract run out - at which point he became a free agent and the agreement became void - and then immediately re-signed him.

It's proper shithouse behaviour.

[Bernanke]

I've just read they are saying that they let his contract run out - at which point he became a free agent and the agreement became void - and then immediately resigned him.

It's proper shithouse behaviour.

Portugeezers.

[Jimmy Floyd]

How is the sell-on clause anything to do with the player's contract?

[niko_cee]

Yeah that's absolute garbage, although you can see what they were trying to play at. Weren't there similarly idiotic shenanigans around one of 'Hamez' Rodriguez's transfers, although that could have been Porto on the end of an attempted Monagascan shafting?

I see Real had their transfer ban reduced to effectively nothing as well the other day.

[Giggles]

How is the sell-on clause anything to do with the player's contract?

Hopefully FIFA see it the same way.

[Lewis]

Forty million isn't that much when they spent thirty on Eric Bailly, who 1) had about ten minutes of first team football to his name; and 2) played for a Spanish club who would probably have taken a tenner and some greasy ham. It's January, Portuguese clubs seem pretty adept at conning people... Whatever mate.

[mugbull]

Manchester "Lehman Brothers" United, too big to fail.

[mugbull]

Wait, no, Lehman Brothers did fail.

[niko_cee]

BBC has Oscar to Shanghai for £60m as official.

lol

[Giggles]

The contract must be monstrous. Great move for Chelsea.

EDIT: £400,000 a week.

£39 a minute :cool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

That is properly good business for us, should clear FFP for a while. Thanks, China.

Could do with a centre half in January, although I guess Zouma falls into the 'like a new signing' column.

[phonics]

“We went there and Thierry Henry said to me: ‘Please, Emmanuel, this is Buckingham Palace, it’s the Queen’s house, don’t do anything.' “‘No problem,’ I said. ‘Don’t worry’. So the Queen came in and went along shaking each player’s hand. After she’d finished I saw all her corgis so I said, ‘Ma’am, Ma’am’. She turned back and asked, ‘How are you?’ and I said, ‘Ma’am, I am OK thank you but please, I don’t want to be a footballer any more, I want to look after your dogs. I want to take them for walks, wash them, feed them. I want to be a dog carer.

Eboue :cool:

[Max Power]

Tevez going to earn £615,000 per week in CHINA. Jesus.

[Spoonsky]

A pound a second I believe.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I didn't know Tevez was still playing.

[Giggles]

Where was he?

[phonics]

Boca. Went back because he was sick of speaking Italian/English and missed his family.

[Max Power]

And now clearly he got sick of not having loads and loads of money pumped into his bank account each month. Fair enough.

[Giggles]

Boca. Went back because he was sick of speaking Italian/English and missed his family.

China should work then.

[ScousePig]

It was announced a few days back that we've no money to spend, our owner is looking to sell and Moyes was given false promises before taking over. Oh, and M'Vila isn't coming back.

Moyes has started to pick up a few wins but his signings so far have been really underwhelming.

[Spoonsky]

David Moyes: Manchester United's great traditions have gone says Sunderland boss
(http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38424155)
It's obviously a bit lol, and he's a hypocrite talking about how he tried to sign Bale and Fabregas, but I thought it was an interesting point nonetheless.

[Kikó]

He's a boring non entity.

[Raoul Duke]

This Villa guy is a LOOSE CANNON: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/27/aston-villa-tony-xia-25m-offer-rejects-jordan-amavi