In what sense? Because we know animals feel emotions, so surely not existing at all is better than having a dreadful life.Originally Posted by Pepe
That's not the alternative. The alternative is that the vast majority don't exist in the first place.
Maybe for you. Has anyone asked the cows what they prefer? Is cow suicide on the rise?
A threat.
If they knew how to commit suicide then I'd imagine it would be in the worst cases.
You seem to be refusing to be realistic about some of the conditions and therefore lives.
Fucking hell.
I know the conditions are shit. I just don't think any species would rather go extinct. Their instinct says 'survival over all,' so I assume they rather have survival over extinction. Then I again, I haven't asked the cows either.
Every time Merse comes back on here for a bit he seems to project an even more tragic version of himself.
I did mean to add a line caveating that so not to leave the door open to ridicule.
I’m not suggesting anyone is a threat. But it’s that psychology that can be attributed as the basis of the bulling of kids for wearing the wrong clothes, trans/gay-bashing, even schisms due to visible (more likely audible) accents of differing socio economic backgrounds etc.
I kind of agree there. But again the alternative is really that they don't exist at all. So they wouldn't have the instinct in the first place.
We should apply the same solution to the bottom billion then, because their life does look pretty shit.
Alright mate. I might give the new missus the heave actually, as she’s cool and all that but It’s got a bit stale. Figure it best to do so before her and her family make my life a misery for 8 years and no doubt go on to weaponise my progeny to do the same thereafter...
How’s life? I’ve not been keeping up.
I agree with the majority of what you’ve said in your posts; you’re pretty much spot on in my view. I think a lot of meat eaters (including me) are ignorant to animal agriculture and the potential health issues that come with it.
The population growth rate surely means something needs to give. Not in our lifetime, but certainly in the future as the demand gets even greater. That’s a shitload of cows to feed that lot.
1812 : 1.5 billion people
1912 : 2.5 billion
2012 : 7 billion
Still probably won’t become vegan however. I’m a terrible person.
To reiterate, I do think that the 'environmentally friendly' argument for veganism is valid. As for animal farming, shit like silvopasture should be the way forward.
As for environmentalism, it is probably better to eat locally sourced beef than quinoa, but lets not get too much into details.
I mean in comparison to a wild species, for which conditions are orders of magnitude worse/'crueler'.
Just out of interest, which conditions?
Have a sausage roll lad.
If this is how bitter a veg only diet makes you I'll pass.
Yep, agree (in the majority of cases anyway).
The kinds Merse spoke about. And things like this. There's no joy in that. (I presume. I've not researched anything that specific, and I'm not a chicken.)
Chickens don't feel fucking joy.
Being vegetarian would be bloody awful, don't even want to imagine how dull being vegan must be.
The girlfriend is vegetarian (briefly had her eating chicken and fish) and cooking meals is a pain in the ass a lot of the time.
They may not feel joy as such but animals feel happiness, sadness, fear, grief etc.
Studies have found they can feel pain, fear, and stress.
I also think it’s no coincidence that the one ‘meat’ that meat eaters often don’t enjoy is seafood, which often resembles its appearance when it was alive (still has its face, etc). You have no such issue with beef and pork dishes, and to a lesser extent poultry. We can eat those dishes without being reminded at the dinner table of what it looked like when being alive.
Yeah so an absence of those things can be aimed for. Not joy.
Anyone watch the vids of the cow having its baby taken? You could see it was absolutely devastated. Shame.
Oh well, veal burgers for tea.
Now are you sure you aren't a chicken? Have we ever had a mugshot? TTH deserves the truth Reg.
I think it's worth pointing out that isn't in this country, there are immensely tight rules surrounding how animals are reared (more than there are around domestic pets or children for that matter) and farms are inspected constantly. It is a myth that food animals in this country are kept in poor conditions, anyone claiming otherwise is either woefully misinformed or has an agenda of some kind.
Have you not seen Chicken Run?
Lewis, mate, I bet you couldn't look a fish in the eye and then dig in. I dare you.
Less fish in the sea means lower sea levels, so I would feel compelled to eat him/her on ethical grounds.
Yeah the UK is a lot better than America (to my knowledge) and elsewhere, but it also depends where you buy your meat / animal products and what you consider poor conditions.
I'm guessing Merse but I zoned out very early on in his waffle.
Has anyone ever looked at the lesbian Jack Sparrow and felt threatened?
I never actually realised we had a live vegan headcase on here.
Going from ‘not all vegans are mental cases, I have a (presumably black) farmer friend’ to becoming the embodiment of Tumblr in 2 pages is good going.
Even that roasting div with the double barrelled French surname isn't as big a vegan headbanger as Merse here.
It's early and I'm bored so I read back. Fucking hell Merse doesn't do anything for the whole 'vegans aren't crackpots' thing does he? I'd say he could justify any sort of dangerous behaviour towards people to himself in the name of the cause.
Plucky cow makes an escape for it.
http://news.sky.com/story/hero-cow-e...sland-11255824
I am so far away from being a vegan or vegetarian but I am slowly cutting out meat and dairy products. I doubt I'll ever completely cut them out but small changes help.
It's mainly from a personal health view point, I'm filling meals up with less meat and more vegetables and trying to cut down on the dairy products. I've switched from milk to almond milk which lasts longer, fewer calories and tastes the same for the smoothies I make.
I've cut out 90% of the processed meat I used to eat, sausages, ham, bacon, burgers etc and that alongside the extra vegetable intake has made a real impact on my overall health.
I went from 15 stone at the end of 2016 to 12.5 stone in June last year when I made all these changes
I think a lot of people could do with thinking about what they put in their mouth, so much of the food industry is total shite.
Health is the only reason for doing it.
It's actually sad to see so many fall into line with it though.
.
I've gone in the opposite direction, increased the amount of meat, fish and so on, and just massively cut down on carbohydrates (to the extent that even when I go for a curry I don't want rice, naan or anything with it). I feel a lot better for it.
There is no reason for human beings in an affluent society to eat as much bread as everyone seems to.
"The meat and dairy substitutes industry could be worth $40 billion by 2020."
Not my words, Carol. The words of billionaire, Richard Branson.
https://www.plantbasednews.org/post/...ughter-animals
Artificial meet is only a few years away from hitting the shelves anyway.
We've been having an artifical meet for years.
Yeah that's what I've thought. The way to end/reduce animals being killed will be by growing meat in a petri dish.
Fuck that sounds disgusting.
It'll all just be like Quorn, but at about €50 for a 'steak'.
According to some shit I've just Googled an average thousand pound cow will yield almost half of that in 'retail cuts'. Then you have the other by-products left over. Will it ever really become cheap enough to grow two hundred kilograms of pretend meat for less than you can raise and process a cow?
Why would you want to reduce killing animals? Where else will they go? You're basically saying you want to make cows, chickens etc extinct.
If we were sniping snow leopards off clifftops for a steak then that would be one thing.
I'm in favour of getting rid of pandas. Useless twats.
I'd eat a pandaburger without hesitation.
Yes. Their populations need to be reduced. Of course rather than cull the fuckers you can just manage them onto sustainable population levels by leaving them to graze for years with a small population of bulls taken from those who are currently used to stud, coupling that with their natural breeding instincts (almost zero libido in the case of most bulls for instance), and that population will slowly ebb away to something more natural (not that there’s anything natural about most of the ‘breeds’).
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