Fuck knows why we took Maddison then.
His every touch of the ball brings a tremble to my nethers
I like him a healthy amount and think his career is worth a World Cup win
I like him but sod Argentina winning
He's great, obviously, but I don't care if he succeeds or fails
He's great, obviously, but pundits need to settle down
I'm a racist and that's why I hate him
I'm an idiot and will argue he's actually not all that good
Fuck knows why we took Maddison then.
Breaking the play up for the French to bring on Grealish in the 96th minute has to be one of the most bizarre substitutions I have ever seen as well.
My personal theory is that he hates him for some reason and plays Mount over him just for the sake of trolling.Originally Posted by Bam
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63931761
Of course he's the one playing the tune on this.
Wasn't stones injured?
Shhh, lets ignore that.
Both things play to the same problem. Caution over bravery. The game should be played to win, not to not lose. This is Southgate's major problem, but it isn't just him, it's international football writ large. I thought Southgate was about as brave as he could reasonably have been expected to be with his selection, at least he didn't go to a back 5/full LVG. Subs maybe not so much. It would be better, at least from a viewers perspective, if he thought sod it, we have the players to win this, let's go out and see what they can do, but that's not his thing. There was literally no point in taking Alexander-Arnold and it would probably have been nice to have Toney as an option but he wouldn't have been used so meh. I hope Southgate buggers off although I have no idea who would be my preference to replace him and I doubt he will. This is 'his group'. Maybe they can get Bobby Martinez to ruin another golden generation of players.
He does hate him #ITK
The only candidates I can think of are Howe and Potter. I'd suspect the latter might be more suited to it on account of how his Chelsea stint has started. I would probably let Southgate run his contract out, though.
Its all explained now.
Still can't believe he ballooned that pen. I get the pressure and all that, but he's normally so reliable with penalties*.
* I've not checked the stats, but feel like he always scores them.
One thing I would be interested to see again, and I don't know if there was any replay of it, was the Kane shot in the first half that Lloris saved which, to me, looked like it might have grazed an outstretched arm en route. I don't know if it was in the area or not, but there was little to no analysis of it so I assume it must have been outside.
58 scored 11 missed.
Not including shootouts.
It was his third miss this calendar year.
The FA will 100% stick with Southgate, he's their dream manager and always will be. Howe or Potter more suited to these players though.
I always feel someone taking multiple penalties in a game will miss one.
This post is brought to you by Martin Palermo.
Ultimately Kane had three easy chances to score and only took one, that's just not good enough at World Cup quarter-final level and that's the sole reason why we lost.
81% conversion rate (not inc shootouts). Pretty good I reckon.
To select another player to take a pen after your striker has already scored one is not real life.
I know it's irrational, I just still see penalties as a game of chance, however good their record is.
Think the average is 76% so it's not bad.
Wilkinsons fault
Broja must have done some serious damage to his knee in this friendly. Looked like nothing at all but I’ve never heard a football player scream in pain like that for so long in my life. Sounded like a dog
Speaking of knee injuries. The injury footage in the BBC's Fat Ronaldo documentary was pretty grim viewing. Probably hit me harder because I have a history of knee injuries myself, but I would have sued that useless, thick, baguette eating, frog, cunt doctor into the ground for botching the first surgery.
I remember seeing a photo of his knee injury in the papers when I was just a wee kid.Was grim. I too have had shit luck with knees.
Fat Ronaldo over giraffe neck Ronaldo any day.
I admired the little shimmy that did the damage. I don't think any knee would've survived that quick change of direction.
Was it you who had your knees knocked out once by a lift stopping?
Ah, victim blaming. Not cool. I don't even want to know your view on rape victims.
There was a bit more too it than that, but yeah. Luckily I seem to have grown out of it. It's been about 10 years since it last happened.
That said, I've not tested it by ice skating or anything like that. It handles squats fine though.
Don’t even know what’s happened there. A year out no doubt
Knee fucked and career probably derailed while performing a high press in a mid season friendly against Aston Villa in Abu Dhabi. Nothing says modern football like that.
That's a ligament going pop.
Is that The Operation live on the field?
Since football began in 98. A list of England's world cup wins without penalties. Not sure how it compares to other major nations who haven't won it during that time. It looks wack.
98 Tunisia
98 Colombia
02 Argentina
02 Denmark
06 Paraguay
06 Trinidad
06 Ecuador
10 Slovenia
18 Tunisia
18 Panama
18 Sweden
22 Iran
22 Wales
22 Senegal
It is often forgotten that our record in World Cups (and major tournaments in general) outside of England is pretty rubbish. Can only assume the win in 66 clouds it.
We're not going to get another run without perennial arse-aches Germany and Italy in the way, as well as whoever are the top sides of the day. Biggest missed opportunity ever I think, even more so than Euro 2004 or Korea/Japan.
2020 was the bigger/biggest missed opportunity because we were already there and all we had to do was make better substitutions. In 2002 and 2004 we just lost fair and square to better teams. Of course the actual biggest missed opportunity was 2008, when we could have fielded half the Champions' League final and the only decent team there was Spain.
Easiest thing in the world to blame substitutions and there's a lot of that going on here. If I was going for a layman answer, I'd say England were just a bit unlucky yesterday.
What does that even mean?
We were unlucky, and that's why I'm properly not enjoying this defeat (much like Moscow 2008), because if you were shite and had lost for explainable reasons then it makes a lot more sense.
Lots of people seem to have taken heart from a good performance and 'the future is bright', but I have watched enough sport to know that the future is rarely bright and you have to be ruthless whenever you are playing well, so it's the opposite feeling for me.
We weren't unlucky, we just weren't good enough.
Ye unlucky is pushing it a bit. You were the better team for much of the game but you didn't create enough chances to capitalize on it and got punished for it.
Last edited by Adramelch; 11-12-2022 at 09:04 PM.
Yeah, I don't think we really had much bad luck. The fact that Hernandez probably should have got enough yellows for a couple of reds which might have changed the game but France got it right at the point end, we didn't. Being the better team for big stretches of the game is all well and good but doesn't matter if you can't kick it into the net when the chance arises.
Bringing Mount and Sterling on with their respective form was criminal and plainly not going to change anything (as evidenced by Mount getting the ball in acres of space and deciding to just spaff it goalwards) and there were matchups which were clearly working for us (Kane vs. Upamecano, Saka running at basically any of their defence especially after the first penalty) which we saw for brief stretches and then allowed France just entirely snuff out.
We played better football than we have a lot of other times we've gone out and weren't constantly under the cosh but that attack is still simply not capable of creating enough against stodge.
While the game was closer than I imagined it would be before kick off, for me France still never particularly looked that threatened. Ok, there were passages of play where we were on top but we really didn't create anything like enough from open play to look back and think what might have been. When we equalised with the first penalty, France woke up and we were pretty dodgy for about 10 minutes afterwards. Saka was still threatening and again, it's not bad luck to take him off, just dreadful management. We'll never know, but even if Kane had scored his second pen I don't think we'd have gone onto win - it shouldn't matter what's gone in World Cups before, but for some reason it seems to and we clearly just don't have the balls to grab a game like this by the scruff of the neck and do what's necessary to win.
Mount did win the penalty tbf.
Exactly what it says. The most visible things in a game to spot are mistakes from a referee and substitutions. If games are lost then invariably people look at those first.
Why not consider how Griezmann was able to find space and dictate the game more than Bellingham, or why Tchouameni was allowed so much space to pick his spot for the opener (presumably because England were focusing on other players more).
England were too cautious, ultimately. They're very effective on the wings but chose to keep Kyle Walker back pretty much at all times (yes, I get why), ending up playing a back three despite this idea that it was a back four. Henderson ended up drifting out wide and the effect was negligible. Attacks broke down out wide because they were outnumbered, and England aren't as threatening centrally so France were able to deal with that too.
England were more aggressive in their press, but as France have good players and players able to counter, it generally suited them. France, on the other hand, sat deeper but were more organised and allowed little space for Rice or Bellingham to dictate the game.
On the flip side, Henderson moving out wide allowed Saka to work in the dangerous half spaces and he became England's most influential player, and France became more disorganised. So yes, in that sense, criticise the substitution.
Maguire and Stones both eventually found that with France deep, they were afforded more space and were able to travel with the ball into more dangerous areas, but this is something that could have been exploited earlier. Or at least forced France to move further up the pitch and mark them tighter, thus affording more space to the likes of Rice and Bellingham.
All I'm saying is there's a lot more to it than just mentioning a substitution but people rarely discuss exactly what it was.
The majority on here think Southgate isn't good enough. So who takes over (who is English)? There isn't a wealth of other contenders. Potter has only recently moved. Howe is having a lovely time with his A-rab blood money.
Carlos Queiroz.
Some of that stuff was discussed in the thread, but when you're looking at one of the worst substitutions of all time (I can only really recall Argentina taking Riquelme off to rival it) then it deserves to be mentioned front and centre.
Somewhere in FA Towers is a whiteboard with 'TOURNAMENT MANAGER' in the middle and a cloud with 'Scolari still alive?' in it.
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